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E245: Carol Ann Stephens
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Six-year-old Carol Ann Stephens had gone outside to play by herself, just as she had many times before. But on April 7th, 1959, she didn’t return home when her mother called. When details of a specific car and unknown man emerge, finding Carol became even more dire. And, when her body was found two weeks later, the search for the perpetrator ramped up.
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Transcript
Neighborhood Safety Concerns
00:00:00
Speaker
In the subdivision where I live, I often see a mom and her baby walking up and down the street. Well, mom is walking and baby's riding in the stroller, but I always wave with them as they pass, and most afternoons, they spend at least 30 minutes a day walking back and forth on the sidewalk. As my baby and I play, they walk. I've also seen older kids about 12 or so walking to the ice cream shop that's near us, and they're on their own. They smile and wave as they pass on their way to enjoy a delicious treat.
00:00:27
Speaker
It makes me happy to think that I'm raising my baby in such a safe area. A place where mothers walk with their children, where kids walk alone to get sweet treats. But in the back of my mind, I always question how safe anything can be. In the passing car my baby waves at or the walking mom nods her head at.
00:00:44
Speaker
could be a dangerous person. An area I'm so familiar with could hold hidden and dark secrets.
The Carol Ann Stevens Case
00:00:50
Speaker
So too is the town in which we find ourselves today. The abduction and murder of a young girl in 1959 remains one of the most notorious unsolved cases in British history. A six-year-old girl from Cardiff Wells was taken while walking home from a local shop. Despite extensive investigations, the perpetrator of this crime has never been identified. This is the story of Carol Ann Stevens.
Introducing Coffee and Cases Podcast
00:01:47
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families with each case. We encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, coffee and cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee and listen to what's brewing this week.
AI Technology in Investigations
00:02:25
Speaker
So I've just been, before we started recording, rocking Maggie's World with some new AI. This is not sponsored. i It is cool. I will have to list them in our show notes because we've got AI that can make a podcast for you. We've got AI that can generate a song complete with music and and it will sing it and make you cry if you write it about something emotional or special to you. We've got AI that can do so much. That's the world we live in today. ah You're taking us way back. Yeah. Way back before any of that. We do want to save though with AI. Be careful because not all you see is real and it will lie. Yeah, or hallucinate, as they say. Yes. It will hallucinate. But this week's case is older, like you said, and happened across the pond, where Allison spent some time.
Carol Ann's Day and Disappearance
00:03:26
Speaker
So it is about Carol Ann Stevens, or Carol Ann, as she was most often called, and she disappeared on April 7, 1959, from Cardiff Wells.
00:03:36
Speaker
And her story is one that when I was like trying to decide what case I wanted to cover, it's just sad to me. And perplexing, which I know all of our cases are perplexing. But her day and that of her mother, Mavis. so There was a program to learn how to type called Mavis Beacon. Alice has a memory of an elephant. Before Maggie's tongue.
00:04:02
Speaker
But anyways, back to Wells. So we're across the pond in Wells with this typical day. Caroline's mom was cooking dinner for the family, which consisted of Caroline, the mom, Mavis, and the stepfather, Ken. okay So mom's busy cooking and she needs some things from the grocery store. So she asked Caroline if she would run to the grocery and she is, if memory serves me, six at the time. okay And Caroline's like, yeah, I don't care to go.
00:04:31
Speaker
because mom was like, hey, you can get some candy for yourself if you go to the grocery store. She makes her way towards the local corner shop to purchase cigarettes for her mom's stepfather. Again, different time. Different time. I am glad that we are healthier in terms of that now. and But I mean, my dad is a smoker and he used to send me in to do that. And if they knew your parents in a small town, they would be like, yeah they know they know you're not going to smoke it.
00:05:07
Speaker
Despite the heavy rain though, once Carol Ann got back from the grocery store, so she did make it to the grocery, she made it home with the cigarettes and the candy,
Discovery and Investigation Begins
00:05:16
Speaker
she told her mom that she was going outside to play. Being that she's six, I don't really find playing in the rain strange. I love doing that. Oh, no, I did too. Oh yeah, jumping in the bottles. We would hike up the hill and watch the springs overflow so they had little waterfalls and stuff. Yeah, so I don't think that's that weird.
00:05:37
Speaker
But since her mom was busy cooking dinner, she didn't accompany Caroline outside. So instead, she just told her to have fun, but not to be gone too long because dinner or supper, as we say, was almost done. OK. And I did put a picture of Caroline because she is really cute. Oh my goodness. This little girl is so precious with her brown wavy hair and she yeah and she just looks so innocent and sweet and she looks like she would have had so much fun playing in the rain. yeah But Alison sadly that was the last afternoon that her mother and stepfather would see her alive.
00:06:15
Speaker
So from the time she leaves home to go back outside and play to the time that her body is discovered, because they do discover the body, there are a actually a pretty good amount of sightings of her, which is nice, but they still, despite that, didn't really go anywhere. We think confirmed sightings.
00:06:33
Speaker
who So police chief constable Jackie Roberts said, quote, it was almost as if something had been pre-arranged, prompting her to go back out, end quote. Oh, yeah I was not expecting you to say that. Because when these witnesses started coming forward, so one was her friend whose name was Kevin, and he actually lived The research said in the same house but I'm wondering if it was like a house that was turned into apartments. Oh like duplexes or an apartment complex. or Like how they turn older houses into different units. So he actually provides some clues about what happened after Carol went I guess quote unquote outside to
The Groomer Theory
00:07:16
Speaker
play. Okay. So Kevin said that she had told him she was going for a car ride
00:07:22
Speaker
which was a big deal in 1959 because in her area, there wasn't a lot of vehicles. So that would have been like something that she was super excited about. So in my head, I'm thinking, did she see someone when she went to go get the cigarettes and the candy who said, Hey,
00:07:40
Speaker
go take those back, tell your mom you want to play outside, and I'll take you for a car ride. And a six-year-old, like you said, if it's rare, would be like, I'm riding in a limousine. Yeah. I mean, this is cool. She'd be like, this is the best day of my life. Right. So, Kenan describes seeing Carol Ann go up to a parked car that was on the corner, so where this market was, okay so near the grocery. She tapped on the passenger side window and and a known man was inside. they Kevin wasn't able to see what the man was doing, but it appeared that he was either reading or writing something.
00:08:14
Speaker
So it was almost like he's picking up something to do because he's waiting on her to get back. Yeah. And it's weird because Kevin told Mavis later on that Carol Anne had been talking to him about a new uncle that she had. And so I almost feel like she knew this meeting. There was some grooming going on. Yeah.
00:08:36
Speaker
Cause I just find it weird that she would go up to a stranger and knock on the window. Cause I'm thinking about right when I was little, like if I saw my uncle at the grocery store in his car, like I would have knocked right window, but not i would write met stranger. And in my head I'm thinking, okay, if she's calling him a new uncle,
00:08:58
Speaker
At first I was like, okay, well that tells me that this wasn't some random stranger abduction because usually a random stranger isn't going to stay in the same place for weeks before committing a sh crime. They would just come into an area. But then at the same time, it's also somebody who isn't known to her well because she doesn't Say oh yeah Kevin it's Billy from across the street or Tom from church or Joe from the grocery store it's a generic name yeah which tells me either she doesn't know his real name or she Kevin doesn't know. His real name and so she he's not recognizable to her from.
00:09:42
Speaker
the local group. And then I even wonder like, if so we talked about, I mean, briefly that it was grooming, which takes a time period. But then I'm wondering if it's almost just like, Hey, I'm your uncle, your stepdad's brother, and maybe it's like family, she doesn't know, but she trusts them. So this is maybe the new uncle, and that's where the relationship came from. It makes sense for a kid, if you said that you're a relative, it builds this automatic trust. So parents talk to your kids about this, and this is somebody they don't know.
00:10:15
Speaker
Stranger dangerous yes again have a password that only you and your child know because if that's a family member then they would know
Suspects and Motives
00:10:22
Speaker
the password so that's a good way to do it, but Yeah, it it makes me think if it's not a local and it's not a passer through, then it has to be someone who's in town, maybe because they are related to somebody else in town. They live in a nearby town. They've gotten a new job there. They've just moved there. Something that would make them unknown to her. And I didn't look up how big this town was in 1959. Had you been there on your travels? and So, but I've,
00:10:58
Speaker
It worries me that she's saying a new uncle. Reports indicated that witnesses saw Carol Ann in a green saloon type car and then we later have an adult saying that she saw Carol Ann get out of this car near her home around the time she disappeared.
00:11:17
Speaker
oh This led the detectives to wonder if the man had been in contact with her before the disappearance. So what kind of what we were talking about, right? The one of the detectives was asking, you know, like, was this planned? Was he practicing something with her? Was this a form of early farming, which is what you said, but On that April day, Carol didn't return home and eventually her mom is like, something is wrong. She should have been back by now or if she's just playing outside. Where is she? Yeah. And so she ended up calling the police around mid afternoon, right around the time they would have been eating dinner. Okay.
00:11:58
Speaker
I do think, Allison, that it's important to note that her mom, so Mavis, told investigators that when Carol Ann left, Carol Ann seemed anxious to get out of the house to quote unquote play. And I wonder if the anxiousness is She knew she had to meet this uncle. And she wants to hurry. Yeah, or she's maybe late. And that's so hard because little kids get so excitable about things that I'm sure in the moment it just felt like she just wanted to go play. You know, it's raining. I'm so excited. Can I go outside? Can I go outside? And kind of rushing it. But then in hindsight, you're thinking. Could it have been? Right. Was there a reason?
00:12:40
Speaker
According to Wells Online, Carol Ann's mother issued a desperate plea saying, quote, I'm sure Carol is crying for me by now. She's a friendly girl who would talk to anyone, even though we discouraged her. But she didn't like being away from me for long, end quote. That breaks my heart. And I feel like that's how my mom probably would have described me. yeah for I mean, I i was a pretty chatty kid, yeah but I didn't want to be away from my mom. And that's so sad. So detectives searched nearby woods. They searched a cemetery. They looked through empty houses. They also guarded Cardiff Central Station. They watched passengers board the Fish Guard boat train for Ireland. So they were doing all of these things. And we have those sightings of her initially, but then
00:13:25
Speaker
nothing oh on April. So they're, again, they're not thinking that this was a local, clearly, because if they're looking at trains, yeah, trains, just to make sure no one's taking her out of this area, because like you said,
00:13:45
Speaker
Cars were rare, but at this point, I don't know when they heard about the green car, if it was after they were checking for the trains. Because of cars were rare, they probably didn't even think to do it. On April 22nd, two weeks after Caroline was last seen, the search for her came to an end because her three foot six inch body was found in a small ravine near the hamlet of horrid in Cormarthenshire.
00:14:10
Speaker
It's believed she'd been dead for about a week though, before being discovered in this stream. And she was just in the stream covered by leaves and branches. So they hadn't even attempted to bury her. She was wearing the same clothes that she had been in the day that she disappeared, but her skirt was found around her feet. Oh my gosh, Maggie, don't tell me that. And one of her light brown shoes was lying ah about five feet away from her body. And the other was found like 15 feet
Community Impact and Theories
00:14:36
Speaker
downstream. Oh my gosh.
00:14:37
Speaker
So I don't know if maybe weather moved them, but they had definitely been removed. Were they, was this person who did this, did they put her in this ravine thinking that she would float away? I don't know. It almost seems like to me they were just trying to hide her because they covered her up with the leaves and sticks. So maybe they were thinking she would just decompose there and then be washed or be washed away. How, do we know how far this is from her hometown? Yes, it is actually 60 miles. So I feel like that's quite a gay different, like a, that's pretty big to me. Okay. You know, I like to over analyze every single detail. So knowing that she's found 60 miles away makes me number one question. If you're in a car,
00:15:29
Speaker
and you're disposing of her. Why dispose of her only 60 miles away ah yeah from her? Why not keep going to where it would require efforts from distant law enforcement to you know be able to connect the case, unless maybe that's as far as this person could drive before they had to be back in town. Because if they were from yeah near that area, they just drove far enough away to not be in the general vicinity, but then had to get the back.
00:15:59
Speaker
I don't know what to make of all of this yet, but those are the questions that are going around in my mind. And I wonder what we would be saying about this case if it was a recent case and not one from 1959. Yeah.
00:16:19
Speaker
So police did interview over 10,000 people. I read Allison and they searched about 3000 vehicles. They took like 1100 statements, but there are few clues that ever came forward. Chief Constable Thomas told the South Wales echo at the time, quote, it's clear. Carol didn't walk to where she was found. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Well, and we have the sightings of the car and there's no way a a child's going to walk 60 miles. That's,
00:16:49
Speaker
No, that's out of the realm yeah of something that could actually happen. yes So we talked earlier about how cars were a rare thing in this town and her disappearance was right on the cusp of when cars were starting to boom. So it's like they're very rare, but more people are starting to own vehicles, you know what I mean? And so they're wondering then As concerns about the killers using cars of that children group they're now thinking do we need to have some type of. National campaign where we're teaching these kids kind of what you were talking about a stranger danger yeah some sort of task force almost to because it warn them about it cuz once the car ownership goes up that's such an easy way.
00:17:39
Speaker
to kidnap a kid. And so her disappearance was kind of like almost the case that we covered for forever ago that started the oh Amber, Amber alerts.
Biological Father Ruled Out
00:17:51
Speaker
Hers was like the, I guess pushing force behind the stranger. center for through that area So in the early days of the investigation, detectives focused on Carol's father and the Mrs. Stevens, so Mavis's first husband, whose name was James, who had moved to London after their divorce four years earlier. okay So one neighbor, Brian Robson, who was a child at the time, spoke to the re-investigation team. So we have the initial investigation and then later. yeah saying quote, she was just a normal playful girl living there was like a paradise. We did nothing but go to school and play. We were always outside playing and Carol Ann was constantly going to the corner of Robert Street, always being told to get off the road and come back to the house. There were only three cars in the whole street and there were 160 houses. So seeing a car was a big deal. It was only later we realized she was living with her stepfather and not her real father. There was talk at the time that her real father wanted her back.
00:18:54
Speaker
end quote Oh, so even the other kids at the time didn't realize that her stepdad wasn't her dad. That is interesting. Well, if she's six and the real dad and her mom divorced four years earlier, she was only two. So if she hadn't seen him, she may not even know. So she might, and he might be able to give details about her mom or about her that would make her trust him and and say, I'm your uncle. I know this about you.
00:19:25
Speaker
That is really interesting. OK. Mr. Lynch, a bus driver who is estranged from the family, went to the London police station after seeing an appeal in the newspaper urging him to come forward. OK, well, at least he did that. OK. And the 33-year-old was interviewed by the police, but hadn't seen his daughter and could prove that he was in London at the time of car disappearance. Well, the fact that he came forward after seeing and urging in the paper. I feel like he speaks a lot about his character. Yeah, I do.
00:19:55
Speaker
Police then turned their attention to the driver of this mysterious green car that had been seen parked near Carol's house at the corner market.
Ignored Neighborhood Observations
00:20:02
Speaker
Seems like the logical choice. I feel like, why didn't we start there? Right. Okay. So in the weeks leading up to her disappearance, she had been told or telling her friends, I have a new uncle. And she even told them he's been taking me on quote, lovely rides in his motor car.
00:20:17
Speaker
Because remember, we're on like the cusp of car ownership going up. So that would be a big deal. And the neighbor found it strange that the driver had dropped Carol off around the corner instead of right outside of her house. Clearly doesn't want mom and stepdad to see. Because then they would be like, why are you getting in the car with this person?
00:20:38
Speaker
In April 1959, Mrs. Stevens, so the mom, told South Wales Echo, quote, when I made inquiries, a neighbor told me about a strange man who was peering over the back garden wall at Carol's bedroom on Monday night. I was also told of occasions when neighbors and children saw her getting out of a strange man's car, end quote. So why aren't you all telling her this before? That's exactly what I was gonna say. She disappears like if I was your neighbor and I saw a creeper Peking in your daughter's window. I'll be like Allison as number one thing. Yeah, I would call you then I would walk over to your house there were if if your baby is five or six and I see your baby get into a car that I don't recognize and I've met some of your family I mean any family who would probably come visit Yeah, and I saw your baby get into somebody's car and especially if the car were parked around the corner and not in front of your house I would be like Maggie
00:21:36
Speaker
Did you know that your baby was in somebody's car and I feel like even and maybe this isn't the teacher and us that does this but even I feel like we're hypervigilant in the public situation. So even if it wasn't like your kid or somebody that I was close to, if it was my neighbor that I do not know across the street and I saw somebody peeking into their kid's window, I would say something to them. And i I mean, even if it, and this is something my principal says, even if it turns out to be nothing, it's better that we check for the safety of kids. Well, it's ingrained, I think, in every teacher that if you see something, say something.
00:22:13
Speaker
And I feel like maybe we all need yeah that mentality. We do need a little bit of that. A 16-year-old boy said he had seen the car in the days leading up to Carol's disappearance. He described a dark head man wearing a trench coat creepy and brimmed hat inside the car reading some papers. It's always the trench coats. And then he also saw Carol knocking on the car window. So it's like he's waiting on her. So they've had to set up these times. Yeah.
00:22:40
Speaker
And again, he's sitting there reading. It's just, I don't know. The teenager said that he didn't pay much attention and couldn't give police a full description of the car. I mean, that makes sense. Again, if you're going somewhere, your brain's not fully developed. You see it in passing, but it doesn't register until later. Yeah. Carol's friend, Kevin. Okay. And the apartment. Potentially lives in the same. Okay. Yeah.
00:23:06
Speaker
Light collecting plate numbers. Oh, so license plates. Mm-hmm. Yeah, um and it's believed that he almost caught the man after collecting his license plate number Because he was doing that with all the cars in the area on the day that Carol disappeared But he didn't take the number of a green car No, oh I bet he is riddled with guilt especially because he loved the writing down yeah license plate numbers. And that was his friend. So as I mentioned, police did take all of those statements. They interviewed literally thousands of people, but they made no arrests. Following her disappearance, thousands of cars were stopped in her town and Post and South Wales were closely monitored. Even
00:23:51
Speaker
days after the investigation were keeping up with who's leaving, who's coming in. And it was suspected that Carol Ann's abductor may have been trying to take her out of the country, which is what you mentioned. I wonder why they thought that though. I mean, okay, I get Wales is small. So there's, it's almost like if you were in, I don't know, I don't know what state Wales is the equivalent to, but say something like,
00:24:18
Speaker
Connecticut, what like a smallish state, then it makes sense that you would want to cross state lines or take her someplace else. But, you know, I mean, so I get them looking maybe in those initial days. But then I feel like because he's around for a while, potentially weeks, according to witnesses,
00:24:43
Speaker
At some point you say, okay, maybe this wasn't a stranger because most people don't like take vacations, especially in 1959, overseas or across through you know country borders for weeks at a time. Maybe this is somebody from Wales. Well, they look for the driver of the green car. He never came forward. They made pleas for him, which why would he? Because right they know they're looking for him and he was never located.
Unsolved Mystery
00:25:11
Speaker
The investigation into Carol Ann's abduction and murder was extensive, but ultimately unsuccessful. Numerous theories and potential suspects were explored, but there were no definitive pieces of evidence that were uncovered that could say for sure what exactly happened. okay So some of the prevailing theories is a local pedophile, ok which is kind of what we've been leaning towards, I feel like because as you mentioned, I think it would have to be someone who lived close enough that it wouldn't be weird for them to be there. Like they couldn't have been gone for stretches of time without somebody close to them noticing that they were gone. So I feel like it had to be somebody close enough to her city that it wouldn't be weird to be gone for stretches of hours at a time and not days.
00:26:02
Speaker
So I definitely with this theory, I definitely think there's grooming, which makes me believe this theory. I feel like law enforcement should have looked maybe in surrounding areas at pedophiles there. Like maybe he's from a surrounding area, but people are starting to catch on to... Oh, so he's like what in his area? Right. i I feel like that's maybe what they need to look into.
00:26:33
Speaker
Another theory that people have talked about is that it could have been a traveling criminal or band of criminals. So this is, I guess, hinging on the fact that we're thinking they were trying to take her out of the area. Okay. But I don't see how the grooming can fit in with the traveling criminal. It would have had to been somebody who saw her frequently. Exactly. Yeah. This is somebody who was there for weeks and I doubt criminals stick around. Right.
00:26:59
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like it's a get it and go. Yeah. Um, some other people have said it could have been a family member or an acquaintance because you have the uncle in quotes thing thrown in there. So somebody she may have known or knew a lot of speaking of that and kind of connecting to theory. Number one of the pedophile is at first I was like, Oh, the, the potential of her real dad right, and so he would know details about her, blah, blah, blah. Based on him coming forward and him having a solid alibi, I'm gonna rule that out, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't have been somebody from, say, London who knew her dad, who had heard stories about her, who had a vacation coming up, or a holiday, as they say in England, anyway, um but had a holiday coming up, and so they decided to,
00:27:55
Speaker
vacation here they know where she lives they know details about her longer vacations in europe than we do a lot of times like a week long instead of just a couple days and so it could be something like that we maybe knew some details i still just wonder though well i guess if they knew the details then she would go with them willingly and the grooming wouldn't have been so much of a factor because they know things about her to build that trust because i feel like otherwise if it is a complete stranger i mean children are trusting by nature. But just because somebody says, hey, I'm your uncle.
00:28:35
Speaker
I don't know if there would. I'd be like, let me get in your car. Right. Yeah. I feel like, but if they said, I'm your uncle. I know your mom Mavis. Right. Your mom Mavis is my sister. They gave details, kind of like in the Amy Mihullovic case. I know, this is what I thought about. Yeah. When they called and they were like, your mom's getting a promotion. We should go get her a present. And so you trust that this person also has your best interest at heart. So that's why I'm connecting.
00:29:02
Speaker
And then of course, just a random act of violence or unknown individual could be a possible theory. Again, I don't think that she was in the right place at the wrong time. yeah I just think there's too many factors. Yeah, I'm gonna, I don't, I don't know if I believe yeah that theory. Despite extensive forensic analysis. So in some of the reinvestigation, they did analyze some DNA that had been found on her.
00:29:29
Speaker
But even with that analysis and more interviews, they were unable to identify a definitive suspect. So we really don't have a lot of physical evidence.
Case's Lingering Impact
00:29:40
Speaker
You know, we have that passage of time and at the time limited forensic technology technology. So a lot of that hasn't been properly stored to take advantage of the technology we i have now. It has made it difficult to solve the case. So sad.
00:29:57
Speaker
The abduction and murder of Carol Ann Stevens had a profound impact on the community of Cardiff and the nation as a whole. This case has been the subject of numerous books, documentaries, and media coverage. It continues to haunt the people of Wales and serve as a reminder of the vulnerability of children and the enduring impact of unsolved cases. The abduction of Carol Ann Stevens remains one of the most perplexing unsolved cases in British history.
00:30:21
Speaker
Despite extensive investigations and numerous theories, the identity of the perpetrator continues to elude authorities. This case is a testament to the challenge of solving cold cases and the importance of ongoing efforts to bring justice to victims and their families.
Join the Community Effort
00:30:35
Speaker
Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
00:31:05
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.