Transcript
Speaker: a little bit to some of what you've done and I really like love your mission statement and my level of like all of what I understand your
Speaker: you're doing with this, I guess where did you get the inspiration to do this? Like what was kind of the seed that started you off? Like I'm always curious about where people start because it's always fun. You often get to see people when they're like really midstream with something or towards the end. So sort of knowing that the seed is always a huge curiosity for me.
Speaker: Yeah. Um, well, yeah, thanks for asking. Um, you know what? And I don't have a, I don't have a, like a super answer why it was a podcast, but what, what I, what I found, uh, so first of all, for me, um, you know, I, I studied philosophy for, you know, for years at the university and I, and I taught philosophy and, you know, so there's like the whole process of questioning for me is I, is just, I just love it now.
Speaker: I think with the podcast, what it's done is forced me into being in situations where I'm asking questions, because I love doing that. And I don't know a lot of times that our society, particularly the way things are politically now or how we interact with each other, we're not like in an engaged question.
Speaker: And I know I get the vibe from you that you're receptive to it. But, you know, with me, I think it was forcing myself into the position of doing that and related to do that, doing popular philosophy or like, you know, because for me, how people create things, why they create things, what that process is are all kind of fun questions to understand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like who, you know, who you are. So.
Speaker: And finally, I knew nothing about how to do a podcast. And sometimes I pick things that I know nothing about, and that's going to be really scary, and then do it. And this is in the really scary, I'll go ahead and do it, category. I love that. Yes, right? Let that whole lean in. That's excellent.
Speaker: Um, and so yeah, yeah. So that's behind your episode 10 Zora, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're 10. Okay. I mean, I'm absolutely in double that, uh, that there might be, there might be some pressure around that, but no, you're, you're, you're 10. Uh, one tiny piece too was in my mind. Sometimes I want to mention some of the connections that are in my head is that, um, uh, on your con.
Speaker: Well, I think it was episode number two, there's a connection that you were both part of the botanical burlesque, uh, the show. Um, and, uh, she has a lot of great artwork. And of course I, I had the opportunity to talk to you there and, and, and all the wonderful things, um, that you create. So I just kind of like to see how there's these connections of where, um, I encountered folks.
Speaker: Right. It's so great. I feel like it's it's just a very small community between art and all these other things. It's like everyone's only a few degrees apart. I've discovered this. Like it is remarkable to me if you were to like actually put everybody on a map and start stringing together. Who knew who? It's it's amazing. It's absolutely amazing. I am constantly it's funny to me that it still surprises me.
Speaker: But I'm constantly surprised at like, oh, you know that person. How do you know them? And because everybody does like so many different side things.
Speaker: Sometimes I will know someone that somebody else also knows but they know them through a completely different channel or avenue than I know them and I'll learn something new about a contact that I have like oh like I know them as like a jeweler I didn't realize that like they also like headed up a tour group at the Audubon Society on like the weekends It's wild I um, I you know and I started to think about that. Let's let's delve into that. Um
Speaker: During the Glitter Tribe documentary, somebody had made the comment, and this is a question that really drew me, whether the performance in the art was their true self, or was it an escape? Here's my fantasy person, and here's who this is. Here's who I am.
Speaker: Do you think it's kind of an either or like that, or is it more complicated for you? Well, I think there are as many ways to express and perform burlesque as there are people expressing and performing burlesque.
Speaker: I think that for some people I've observed that they really enjoy adopting a very rich fantasy and living in that and really sort of being the embodiment of that. And I also see performers who I would say I probably more closely fall in this category. I like to just turn up who I already am.
Speaker: I just like to crank that volume a little. And in the documentary, Angelique Deville, who's a dear friend of mine and an excellent human, she said that her burlesque persona is basically her at a level 10. And I very closely identify with that. There are certainly performers who create a whole alternate persona. And when they're on stage, they are entirely that persona and that character.
Speaker: And I don't identify with that as deeply. And that mostly is just because I feel like my performances are kind of me, but just really cranked up. Like really, really turn that volume super high. And so as a performer, I approach the acts that I do and sort of the energy that I embody through those acts
Speaker: Those are all things that I want to explore with myself and present to my audience to whatever reaction arrives. Yeah, we're talking with Zora von Pavanin and she was a star, one of the performers in Glitter Tribe Burlesque documentary, but she's also many other things and works in a lot of
Speaker: Crafts and the costumes that she creates and and so Zora I'm gonna I In talking about what we just did a lot of popped into my mind as far as you know identity in in in who we are and I was thinking about that and in terms of myself in the sense of like you know here I'm a podcast host and I'm a union rep and I'm a dad and
Speaker: There's a lot of those type of pieces of ourselves that we you know that we get to talk about in one of the main questions I've started to ask and guess are what they were like as as as a young child like
Speaker: You know, were you were you were you were you always Queen Pavanine? I mean, were you always that or, you know, what were you like as a young child? I'm pretty sure my mom would answer that question in the affirmative. So I I'm an only child, which I think you may have some listeners out there that would just go, oh, everything makes sense when I share that bit of information. So as a kid, I
Speaker: I was very curious and had my hands in a lot of things all the time. My mom was a really was is a really amazing mother and did such a great job for me as a young person. I think reading me and understanding what I needed there was always crayons around and colored pencils and clay and beads and I was constantly making things and had my hand in things so
Speaker: I was always a bit of a self entertainer in that way. I was never bored. There was always something that I was doing or crafting or creating and I definitely enjoyed performing. My mom has these really incredible old VHS recordings of me.
Speaker: I love dance when I was little. I took a lot of dance classes when I was little and I constantly was like, okay, mom, film me doing my routine, which always looked like the same fucking routine over and over and over. It was usually to like Tiffany, I think we're alone now. So like shout out to all my babies. Oh wow. I was just about to cheer. I was just about to cheer with the Tiffany reference. Like bangles in my room. Like, Oh God. So like deep cuts there, but like that's,
Speaker: That's really what it looked like. So I love dancing. I love performing. And I was always very captured even as a young child before I had any definition or any way to sort of declare that this was my intention. I really liked performing for people. And just like very plainly said, I loved showing off. Like that was so much fun for me. I love to show off.
Speaker: And I think that I always sort of found a channel to do that, even when I was like painting or drawing or like working with clay and making small sculptures, like doing all these things, like all of that was a way essentially to show off. And I don't mean to downplay it or degrade it whatsoever. Like I don't really regard the phrase showing off as a detriment or as derogatory. I just think that there is that natural streak in me that was like,
Speaker: this is this thing I did, who wants to share it with me? And I've always sort of had that streak. And as a performer, I also am a person who's very receptive to that. Like when someone wants to show off and share something that they made with me, I'm always just like 1000 % here for that. So that I guess is how I was as a young person and how that has contributed to me, you know, being someone who like,
Speaker: In my adult life, one of the things that I do is I continue to show off. I continue to show off in all the ways that I can, whether it's actually physically showing my body in public or being like, hey, look at this really cool costume I made. Do you want to look at my brain? Because that's the same thing. Look at this really clever costume I made. I'm showing off design skills.
Speaker: So I think that as a young person that was always something that I really liked engaging in And I think as an adult I that is still a very true statement Yeah, and I could feel the I can one of the things that it's quite clear and in looking at the the work that you do and the things you've been interested in and we're gonna get into one that you had mentioned as far as running but activities that seem to be a
Speaker: You know, like really intense in and you put energy into it and it comes it comes out of it. And, you know, I think there's a contagious element to that. And I think there's a natural element where, you know, if you do those type of things, yeah, I mean, there is you're going to be showing off because because you're that committed. It's it's you. You're in. And it's for me, that's a very positive vibe, but I think it always tangles with
Speaker: Be more humble or you know that of course and in in you know And of course the dynamic can be different for you know different genders as well as far as how that you know works for folks but about about running um my you mentioned that you would run in the past my brother's a runner and I Yeah, and one of the things that I
Speaker: As a runner, he started later in high school and then I got to meet when he was in college, his runner friends. What pulled me into runners is that was the intensity, was that these are kind of like a different breed and I could understand them even though I wasn't quite like that.
Speaker: I know running has been very helpful for my brother over the years. My son, who's 16, just started running and which excited me. So about you, tell us about running and your history with that.
Speaker: Wow. Yeah. It's so funny. I'm very grateful that you sort of have dug into my history a little bit based on the conversation we had, because I feel like I don't get to talk about that facet of myself, which I think really did a lot to develop me as a young person and as a human. It's something that I really enjoy, did enjoy. I don't run anymore. But I started running in middle school.
Speaker: and begrudgingly, my mom dropped me off at cross -country practice every day. But then I had my first meet and I did really well. And then all of a sudden it was this thing that I was interested in because apparently I was good at it. And I didn't have much of a frame of reference. I grew up in a pretty small town, so it wasn't like I knew about
Speaker: neighboring schools and like other competition. I think that access to that information exists so differently now because of social media and because of the internet and like accessibility to stats. But it wasn't what it was today, of course, when I was in middle school and high school. So I ran through middle school. I ran through high school. I was very good. I had a lot of success. I have a wall full of hardware and metals.
Speaker: that I worked very hard for. And it was a really phenomenal experience to be part of. My high school team was this very tight knit group of humans. And we are what you would call a shallow team, meaning that we didn't have a lot of runners. So for anybody out there listening, the way that cross country is scored at meets is that
Speaker: Each runner places and their place is their ranking. So if you come in 10th, you earn 10 points for your team. So the lower your score, the better. Generally, if you win the race, you collect zero points for your team. Even though one point would not be, you know, much different than that. Um, that's the benefit of the person who wins the race. So when you have a more shallow team.
Speaker: means that everyone has to be very good because only the first five runners are scored. So if you're not a team that's like 10 people or 15 people deep, the few runners that you have all need to be very good because if say something happens on the course and somebody gets injured, whatnot, you might not even place because you might not even have five people cross the finish line. So we were incredibly strong.
Speaker: For four years, we won the Girls 3A State Meet, which our fourth year was a record breaker. It had never been done in the entire history of Oregon cross -country, regardless of school class, like 2A, 3A, 4A, so on, and regardless of gender. So when we won our third year, we started to turn a lot of heads, and then we came back and we brought the title home that fourth year.
Speaker: being involved in a team that kind of just like, I kind of want to say like out of nowhere, we were just like, we were just really good. And, you know, we were just like this group of kids in this tiny town, waking up every day at six in the morning and go putting in like three miles, five miles, and then like daily doubles, right? Like showing up that afternoon to do
Speaker: more work like whether it was speed work on the track or like a hill workout. We had a really incredible coach who read us very well and gave us an incredible training program and coached us through all of those years to that victory and that very like illustrious sort of place in history.
Speaker: And it was a really remarkable time to sort of reflect on being such a young person and not really, you know, like your life is like one inch tall at that point. You have no life experience. You don't even know what the fuck you're doing. And when I look back on what I accomplished and the effort that I made without even really understanding that it was effort, I'm, I'm still to this day blown away.
Speaker: And I look at the fact that like six other people sort of like got in the boat and rode and that we all did that together. Um, like you can't even commit like, you can't commit to this. You can't commit to that. You can't get a friend to like meet you for lunch without being 20 minutes late. Like all these things that we sort of experienced as adults and as humans in like modern society with technology that allows us to cancel or to ghost or to change plans at the last minute.
Speaker: So when I look back on like my high school days where like you said you were going to be somewhere and you needed to show up because that's just what you did. And that for four years, I showed up for running. I showed up for cross country practice, like putting in a hundred miles a week. And, you know, for anybody in your audience who's listening that knows about running like
Speaker: running like five miles worth of quarters on the track in the rain and then like go running a five mile cool down. Um, that was just like this really wild and intense thing that we just did. And we had no space in our brain to even understand how intense what it was that we were doing because it was like, Oh, like we just have this really hard workout today. And sort of as I've matured into a college runner and now into someone who running is part of my past and no longer something that I currently do.
Speaker: I still marvel quite a bit at the work that was put in and the time that was put in and the mental tenacity and the physical stamina that I accomplished as such a young person. That always is a very proud spot for me because I could not touch that today. I don't have that desire to be at that level anymore.
Speaker: And I know what it takes to get there. And so it kind of just resides for me in this place of like this really sweet part of what formed me as the person who has the resilience and the stamina that I have today, even though it's directed, you know, towards different activities. I think that is when you're describing and I could just, you know, listen to you talk about that. But I think what's most important that,
Speaker: that really struck me is that you're proud of it. This is like you held onto it. I think a lot of times we look back or we did something really, really good, really, really intense. We did it really, really well, but yet we're not honoring that and proud of that. And I've heard you talk in such a way where I think you really helped pull that out, but I can hear it in your voice.
Speaker: It's it's it's it's it's good and you get the medals you get the medals to prove it too, right? Yeah, yeah, that's it's really funny.
Speaker: I think that there was a, it's interesting cause of course, you know, you're talking to me today and this is how I arrived to these answers today. There was definitely sort of a streak in my life post college when I decided to quit running and I decided to quit the team. Um, you know, I didn't finish out my college career. Um, and largely that was because I think I realized that a lot of my enjoyment for running was derived from the people that I was doing it with and being on a really close knit team. And college was just very different dynamic.
Speaker: Um, you know, people have classes at all different times. So there was no such thing as like coming together as this team to do that morning workout and like putting in the time on those daily doubles. And I also went to a D three school, like running was not a priority for me. Um, but it was still important. Um, and, uh, the training program was just really different. Um, and so I just, I found that my, my love for it and my reasons for it became very clear.
Speaker: once the environment shifted so drastically. Like I would have never been able to articulate to you in high school why I loved running so much. It was when I left that environment and entered a new environment where in running was the constant but everything around it changed that I was able to identify what had been the thing that had kept me there. So that being part of why I left it to go into other things
Speaker: And also being what sort of drove me into dance because I did start dancing in high school and I kind of got in trouble. Like my coaches were like, you're doing what on Tuesday afternoons? I was like, it's just a little dance class. And then it kind of sparked this whole thing of like, well, you're going to get injured.
Speaker: Um, and I was like, well, I'm going to get injured probably running a hundred miles a week. Let's be real and not an afternoon hip hop class. Like I'm pretty sure that like that would be the way that that would go. Um, but having, having.
Speaker: that to be proud of, of course, and to reflect on and have that be something that I've brought with me to to look at those medals on the wall and to know that I did walk through a bit of a shame spot when I quit in college. I kind of didn't want to look at the medals. I didn't want to know anything about them. Like there's actually like I think about a year and a half where I like adamantly told my mom to throw them away. Yeah, it makes it makes sense. It's a very real
Speaker: very real reaction to it. Yeah. And so I think that as an adult and as someone who has done a lot of work on themselves and can clearly separate being egotistical about it from being solidly proud of all of the work that I put in, I'm now very proud of those medals. They don't like represent this thing that I did that I don't do anymore, so I don't get to own them.
Speaker: right? And that was sort of the thing that happened was I sort of walked through this phase of like, well, I don't do that anymore. And I'm not good at running anymore. So I don't get to own that. And I would, I would take a swing that that might not be an unnatural thing for people to experience as they sort of phase out of like,
Speaker: you know, the glory of high school and college athletics into a life that maybe doesn't include athletics at all. Um, and so that was sort of my process with it, but I do have the medals still. I have all of them. Um, and I'm like, I'm very proud of them. Like I just bought a house not too long ago and like I'm totally planning to like put them up. So like that's sort of like the punctuation on it. Had you talked to me 10 years ago, like I might've said,
Speaker: Like, I'm not even available to talk about this right now. But now it's just like, you know, I did that and I was really good. And it helped form the person that you're talking to today. And that that deserves its own page. Yeah, I appreciate you talking about it and in your openness about your experience. I mean, it's a reflection of, you know, the growth that you have. But yeah, you could you could get rid of you get rid of the evidence, right? You know, in those down times or.
Speaker: You could put it up for different reasons. And God bless my mom for not listening to me. She raised a pretty powerful only child, my mother. So I was just like, mom, just throw them away. I can't tell you how many conversations we had where I was like, mom, just get rid of them. I don't ever want to see them again. So dramatic.
Speaker: Well, she didn't. But she also didn't raise somebody who is always right. And she probably knew that, too. Like, God bless my mom, who is just like, cool, I can hear that my daughter is not ready. I'm just going to sit on this for a little longer. Asking a few more years and sit her it again. Jesus, thanks, mom. You you mentioned you mentioned hip hop dance and I know
Speaker: That's something that's important to you and I really like hip -hop and hip -hop dance. How did that work into your development physically and with your body and dance styles? Could you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah. Dance happens
Speaker: I mean, it's typical, like I was in ballet and tap when I was little, like very little, maybe like five, six years old. And then I went away from it.
Speaker: I don't remember exactly how it came up, but a friend of mine in high school that was also on the team with me, the cross -country team, was like, there's this dance class that I want to go take. And I was like, oh, hell yeah. So we went and took this dance class. So again, I grew up in a really small town. So we had to go to the town nearby to find a dance studio. It's like a one stop like kind of place. Sure. So we ended up going and taking this hip hop class. And I'm pretty sure it was on like a Tuesday evening
Speaker: And I was just like, what in the fuck is this? And my brain just like lit up because I was just like running like any sport that you do is particular, right? It's so particular. Like swimming is repetitive and running is repetitive and like, you know, like basketball and football, the drills are repetitive. And when you step into a dance class, there's all this like lateral
Speaker: breadth of like energy and body movement. And it was so exhilarating for me to do such different things physically with my body than like being on the road or being on a trail or being on a track. And so that's sort of where it started.
Speaker: And I continued to take classes to the slight dismay of my coaches. And when I got into college, like the very first thing, I'm not shitting you, the very first thing that I did was I found a band studio and I started taking classes. And in hindsight, I guess I could probably very fairly say that that was maybe also part of how running began to phase out for me.
Speaker: because I just found this new thing that I loved more that could take up that space, that could sort of occupy that like pie wedge in my life. So I took classes. I was taking classes at a couple of different studios. And then one of the studios that I was taking class at
Speaker: I'd been consistently taking a class from a woman who was very kind and saw potential in me. And when another hip hop instructor left that studio, she went to the owners and said, like, this girl is really good. She's been taking my class for a year. I think you should give her an opportunity to teach. And they did. They gave us exactly. Yeah. Oh, wow. Is right. They gave me the slot that the other teacher had occupied and thus began my
Speaker: tenure as a dance instructor, which that was at the Viscount Dance Studios, which I would be so thrilled to give a plug to. At the time, the owners, they saw potential in me and they gave me an opportunity and
Speaker: I stood tall in that opportunity and I did pretty well and I taught there. The studio then changed ownership and the woman who took the studio over named Sarah. She's a phenomenal human and a phenomenal teacher. She had been a fellow instructor with me and appreciated what I was bringing to the space so I continued to teach while she
Speaker: is still the current owner of the studio, but for my time there while she was the owner. And it was actually only I think about three years ago that I quit teaching. I mean, it was never full time. I have a very different day job, but that I quit teaching things in the capacity that I was teaching, which was a couple times a week. And it was just time for me to be done with that. But it was
Speaker: a hugely important part of my life, and it led me to Burlesque. The woman who recommended me for the teaching job after a year, her name is Edie, and she owns Vega Dance Lab, also an incredible studio in town. She invited me to be part of a Burlesque troupe that she started, and I think that was back in 2006. I think I have that year correct. And so that was sort of
Speaker: Hip hop was like the gateway to burlesque. And so that's sort of this interesting unfolding of how it all started. And when we decided to start this burlesque troupe, like we did not know what the fuck we were doing. I didn't even know what pasties were. I was like, I was like, sure, let's do this thing. And it's OK. Like now we take our clothes off. And I was like, wait, what? Wait a second. What did I what did I sign up for? I'm sorry.
Speaker: But that was sort of how it all got started. But hip hop for me was this really beautiful dance that I partook in and enjoyed very thoroughly. I was so fortunate to have really incredible movers and dancers and choreography around me for my time with that dance platform. And I feel very fortunate that I had the opportunities to teach and be an instructor in the way that I did because I can count
Speaker: like, I don't know, a good 10 or 15 people in the burlesque community who came to the community through classes with me. They came and took a burlesque class and then they took another one and they took another one. I was like, hey, you should come to a show. And they did. And that has been a really awesome community builder. And I have friends in my life to this day who we met because they walked into my classroom and they have become family to me. So,
Speaker: It's also just this really amazing, right thing that I did that even though I like I no longer do it and I don't tend to talk about it that much. It brought all this remarkable growth and beauty and friendship and family into my life. And it has led to what I guess I would call a burlesque career.
Speaker: So that's how all that started was me being a defiant 16 -year -old and like sneaking off to a dance class on a Tuesday afternoon. Yeah. I've heard you use the term family and I heard it in the documentary, Glitter Tribe. I just wanted to let you know, in watching that, I've watched it a couple of times.
Speaker: I was just so moved by the components of each person and their struggle and their journey, but also the connections to each other as family, whereas there's so much intense activity. I think the way you talk about it is in a few ways, but within the costume design and what you create to wear.
Speaker: that others have that same connection to what they're wearing, what they're doing and other forms of expression. But there's this huge family bond that was very apparent in that. And not only was I drawn by the individual stories, but the story of the family as as as a whole. And it's like I kind of fell
Speaker: I kind of feel like I it's strange and kind of arrogant, but they kind of know or that there's so much so much of their humanity came out. I felt like, huh, I know that person. So it in. Do you want to talk about that as far as the your family and the feelings when you've had these working in these intense activities in areas of family that you've enjoyed?
Speaker: Yeah, thank you. That's a really excellent question. And it's one that I always enjoy answering. And it's interesting because my thoughts on this and my answer to it have really evolved over the years. There's always like small moments when I watch the documentary because there's some answers in there that I'm just like, oh, cringe worthy, just because I'm such a different person now than when the documentary happened. However, this family aspect
Speaker: is just absolutely the undercurrent of everything. And where my articulation of that feeling and of that gravity of connection and togetherness resides today is that there has been something for each of us
Speaker: in our lives where we were shamed or sort of made to feel small or by whatever degree could not live in the fullest expression of who we were. And burlesque for us in our way has provided the platform to go and live in that fullest expression. And
Speaker: It does not matter who you are when you find yourself in league with other people who are existing in that brightness and choosing to radiate themselves and their light in such a way. Connection is like, I mean, it's just the most natural thing.
Speaker: because you stand next to this person and you go, I see you. And I will only speak for myself. Feeling seen has always been something that I've struggled with. And
Speaker: really feeling seen. And a lot of the time, maybe that's been just by people that are friends or passing acquaintances. Sometimes it's been romantic partners. And Alaska has been, without exemption and without qualification, the only arena that I have felt 100 % seen.
Speaker: not only that confidence that like a knowing that I'm being seen but the way that the audience is best I can understand of course is seeing me and of course backstage with my fellow performers. And so when you're standing beside someone and everyone is sort of grounded and anchored in that same desire to be seen and that same
Speaker: just like you cannot repress the drive to express, right? There is just this fiber that is woven, that is, I feel like I'm doing a pretty good job of explaining it, but it's like you kind of just have to know. And when you can be in that kind of communion with your own body,
Speaker: that clarity of presence of this is exactly where I want to be and this is exactly what I want to be doing. And then you open your eyes and you have someone to the left of you and someone to the right of you who's also anchored in that same desire of intention and expression. I mean, what a wild thing. I joke all the time, like I, maybe like once or twice a year,
Speaker: I will have something backstage that will deeply overwhelm me to the point that I feel like making a post about it. But the tone of that is always something to the effect of whatever you do in this lifetime, find that thing and that group of people that make you feel this way.
Speaker: that holds space for you and create this platform that you feel without apology, without exception and without qualification, that you get to be the fullest expression of yourself and that you're doing it with a group of people who will witness you and see you in that. Like, I mean, how is there anything better? And so the family thread to me
Speaker: That's what that's about. And performing is the sort of interesting thing, right? Like it's not like getting in a car and driving to work every day. It's like performances happen sometimes in very strange environments. Like we go on to stage in thousand dollar costumes, but we were fucking changing in a bathroom, like hovering over, like hovering over a urinal.
Speaker: You know, and so it's just this really like wild dichotomy, I think, that comes with any kind of performing arts where what you see on stage is really kind of dichotomous of potentially what's happening backstage. So that dynamic sort of fuels that connectivity because you are together in these really often uncomfortable and strange circumstances.
Speaker: And then you are also together on stage, like in the glory and in the receiving and in the sharing that you do with the audience. And how, you know, I guess anybody can choose to not be present for that. I have chosen to be fully present for that and to deeply invest and engage and love the people that I do it with.
Speaker: It's it's it's extremely powerful your description of that I You know, there's one those those moments you remember where something kind of changed in your thinking and might the one analogy I had compared to what you The dynamic of what you has said when people have your back or there's somebody right next to you gonna have you You know when I've been involved in kind of like pitched labor struggles. I work in the labor. Yeah. Oh, yeah
Speaker: you know back in uh... wisconsin with uh... with scott walker in two thousand eleven pat you know direct attack against unions and you know we occupied the capital and it was amazing it's just a crazy time but there was one time where high because of slippery is cold as february in wisconsin and i was outside and i slept backwards and i
Speaker: think five or six people caught me before I had moved, you know, towards the ground, like three, four inches. And I turned around and I'm like, I've been describing to workers what solidarity is or means or anything, but I just felt it, just felt it deeply right there. And it was like, Oh, okay. Not only did everybody have my back, I basically, you know,
Speaker: Yeah, literally, actually. Yeah, just like I basically almost didn't move, even though I had ready to slip on ice onto the ground. So it's just an extremely powerful experience. And of course, the way you describe, I think it was very powerful to hear that connection and to feel that connection. And I'm sure that's what
Speaker: I picked up on in the documentary and like I said, the connection to the people in a short amount of time, a short documentary, able to connect to those folks. Now, within that, there's one piece that I think is really important. Again, getting back to your intense passion for what you do was you making, creating your works of art, your costumes, and the incredible amount of
Speaker: You know, material, time, dedication, energy. How does that whole component fit with all the other type of intense activity that are connected to burlesque and to dance for you? Yeah. Gosh, that's a great question. And it also feels like such a big question for me because I have so many feelings on it.
Speaker: I guess in short, to me, the costume is really like, it's really the package, right? It's like, literally, how do you want to present yourself, right? Present, but also the present. What are you wrapping yourself up in? How are you gifting yourself to the audience? And that is the, like,
Speaker: detail and dedication and hours of work part of the whole like dog and pony show that my brain just lights on fire for. Like I love having like a pile of like 50 ,000 rhinestones and then like a week later I have a gorgeously crystal costume. Like I did that. I took a pile of things and I made them into something else.
Speaker: And we can all agree that everyone has different ideas of what's interesting and what's beautiful. But for me, for my brain, I'm like, oh my god, look at this thing, this pile of stuff. Makers are going to make. And I'm going to take this pile of things that are not anything, and I'm going to make them into something really fucking gorgeous that people's hearts are going to fall out of their mouths when I walk on stage. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: And so that's right. Here's the show off again. This is where the show off shows up because I'm just like, I really don't think 20 ,000 crystals is going to do it today. Let's order 30 ,000 more, you know, and I love the show off the show off so much fun show up to keep talking.
Speaker: Yes, right? So I'm just like, oh my God, like what did the audience pay for? Like if I don't leave you with your jaw on the floor, like going home confused about like what color today smells like, what the fuck did I really do to you? Right? Like, come on. And so for me, like that's my favorite thing is like if I can walk out and make people like black out for just a couple of seconds because they don't even know what the fuck they're looking at,
Speaker: great like my job is done and I earned that $15 that you paid at the door like to me like that's like that's like the most fun part of it so like I enjoy costuming.
Speaker: And I enjoy the tediousness of it. Like, there are people who do not like rhinestoning. They will farm out their rhinestoning. I am not a skilled sewer. I farm out most of the costumes that I perform in today. My sewing skills are very basic. There are some pieces that I've made that I still perform in, but I, you know, reached a long time ago that threshold where my creative vision far exceeds my current
Speaker: ability. And I have worked with one woman who has done all my costuming, she knows my measurements very well. So she makes corsets for me, she does all these other things to me, or for me. And also, I love that, right? Like, cool, my art gets to support somebody else's art, like now I'm supporting two people, like, and that is also kind of a huge part of it to me of like, how can we spread the wealth
Speaker: There are a lot of makers in the burlesque community, people who make costume pieces, people who make sort of like accessory pieces, robes, boas.
Speaker: you know, all that stuff. And it's all I think in a collective effort to be very presentational. Like I don't think that anybody would probably argue with the statement like we really all love being show folk. And while there is a large range of maybe what that looks like for everyone, we all love being show folk. And so sometimes that looks like a really extravagant costume. Sometimes that looks like an elaborate prop set up
Speaker: sometimes that looks like a very physical act, right? Where you're doing a very comedic piece or you're doing a very physically demanding piece. For me, the way that I really enjoy expressing half of what I'm doing on stage because half of it is like energy and presentation. For me, my other half of that is physically how I look and physically the costume that I arrive in. For you,
Speaker: You know, I'd view the, what you create, your performance in you, you know, I'd say, you know, that, that's, that's, that's art. And you brought up, you know, the pieces, they create art. For you, what, what is art? I mean, I just call that art. I think it's obvious to me, but for you, what, what, what is art? Wow. Great question. I guess.
Speaker: My first answer is, who am I to define art? And my second answer would be, I think that I would describe art as anything that gives someone a feeling that is outside of themselves.
Speaker: I think that if we wanted to brass -tax it, art, maybe we can break it down into categories of how art is physically represented. Maybe you could say that music isn't art, but music can be artistic. Music is music. Art is art. Does art hang on a wall? Does art sit in a three -dimensional form in your living room? Is art expressed in a public space? Is art an installation that's temporary? But for me, I guess, as someone who paints,
Speaker: and someone who has done a lot of art in her life. I used to be in the gallery world, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker: Don't do that anymore. It's that's not a blah blah But it is to say that that's where that's where my opinion of art or my sort of my way in on what is art originates from and that would be Does it make you feel something? Because I think that that might be the only task of art is to make you feel something without any
Speaker: restraints on what it makes you feel. I think that art can make people feel enraged or impassioned or motivated or deeply sad or it can make you feel turned on or excited or elated or peaceful, like it can be all those things. Is it some kind of visual
Speaker: expression that makes you feel something and I'm using the qualifier visual because again like if we want to talk about other things like yes music is art but I guess for the sake of this conversation we can sort of corral the question into like a visual expression since dance is something that you you know as an audience member you watch visually so that I guess that would be my answer it's anything that makes you feel something that maybe is expressed or created by another human
Speaker: Yeah, and I think as I've gone to explore the question of this show, something rather than nothing, it's all tied to processes in art and how people are defining art and why they do it. I think in thinking about this show thus far, I've had a very different type of thinkers and artists
Speaker: But I was, I wondered, and you've helped me get my head into this about, you know, when there's a performance aspect to the art, right? I think it's a little bit easier to look at a painting, put it up on the wall, see that it's beautiful, say, wow, that's an art piece. I think when things are kinetic and they have this energy and they have highs and lows and they can be long, you know, that are moving.
Speaker: Um, it's certainly art, uh, with that, without a doubt, but I think it presents more challenges, you know, to say, you know, where the art is and is that the whole movement is the whole performance. Um, you know, seeing some of the clips of your performance as a whole, like again, you're wearing these beautiful artistic pieces, but you're also using those pieces to, uh, create an active and vibrant, uh, performance for the whole.
Speaker: art show in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. That's a really unique perspective. Right. It's the same idea of like buying a meal or paying for a massage versus like buying clothing like that exchange of tangible goods. Like I pay money. I take home a poster that hangs on my wall that I define as art versus I paid money to go to a show to watch a thing that has a very specific end and start time. And I don't take anything home with me except feelings.
Speaker: Right. So I think that that's where the idea of if it makes you feel something because it is like it's really wild to pay for an experience instead of a thing. So you know you can make a choice to go invest in performance art which is kind of I guess the category that I would loosely throw burlesque into.
Speaker: as an entertainment medium, that's how you choose what is art for you, that you're going to go spend money on a thing that you don't physically get to take anything home with you afterwards. And it's a really interesting exchange, right, which is sort of where I always want to stand very tall in my intention and my effort as a performer where, like,
Speaker: Right, that whole thing like, did I make you black out in the first few seconds that I walked out because my costume was so sparkly and overwhelming to you? Great. I just did my job, right? Like, it's really fun to talk about this, but like, that's sort of my job. My job is to kind of be here to be impressive. Like, you're paying me to be more impressive than anything that you would see on the street. That's right. That's why you're paying me to be here. And like, you know, I'm on a stage, right? Like, that's kind of this, like,
Speaker: really like literal translation of what performing is. I'll kind of like do a sidebar that that was absolutely no dig on anyone who does art in the street or does street performances. It wasn't meant to say that at all. But like, that's kind of the exchange that the audience enters into when they choose to go to a venue and spend money to see a performance. It's a different it's also a different economy. I understood what you're saying. It's a different economy. And there's different expectations inside and outside. And then
Speaker: Of course, if it's outside on the street in Portland, who knows what it'll be? That's outside on the street. One of the things you had mentioned that I wanted to ask you a bit about is painting. You said you had painted. I was just interested to say a couple of words about
Speaker: when you did that or how that form of expression, what that did for you and whether you still do it. Yeah. Thank you. I love painting. Painting is still very much with me. I think I've been painting since before I can remember. I have a couple of really tender photos of me as a very young person, maybe like three or four. My dad used to paint.
Speaker: And I just I have a couple of memories of sort of sitting on the floor with him getting to just like mud out the corner of a piece of watercolor paper because that's sort of what you do until you know anything about colors is just everything turns to mud.
Speaker: So I've been painting for a long time. I love painting very much. It's very dear to me. It is a huge part of my artistic expression. I do love to draw. I like to color. I have a pretty expansive library still of marking tools.
Speaker: from pencils to crayons to pastels. And it's still a huge part of my life. I've had to do a lot of moving around in the past couple of years. And I've always managed to paint a mural in every apartment that I've lived in. And they've not always been these huge, elaborate, when you see a mural on the street, whatever. But there's always just been a little something that I found to make this strange box living
Speaker: a little bit more interesting. I like that. I like that. So yeah, painting is very much still with me. I also love house painting. Painting walls, painting stripes on walls, giving a wall an interesting texture with a pattern is also something I really love doing, to a very sort of
Speaker: Extreme degree like I fucking love to paint stripes and it is the hardest thing to do It's the hardest thing to get like a tight line and to make it look really good But just like oh when that tape comes off. Yes So like if any of your listeners are out there and like want to hire somebody to like really fuck up their dining room with some Gorgeous tin stripes you can call me you're that amongst all the other activities you can can also do that and the the
Speaker: The results, the end results for you, you know, being incredibly satisfying as well. And guess what? I will totally wear my like Rosie the Riveter boiler suit because that's what I paint in when I do any painting around the house. So like, I'll also look really awesome while I do it. Now you're looking to create an industry very, very, very quickly. Yeah, pinups who paint, right? Right, right. Everybody needs a lot more painting, a lot more different type of painting right now.
Speaker: I started painting a couple of years ago and I love it. It's been, I've been grappling with my frustrations within it, but I think in a healthy way. But when I create something that I really love, I feel like I've, it's like I've written something the right way or I've said something just the right way or I finished my speech and I think it was remarkably persuasive, like that type of feeling.
Speaker: Yeah, I love that. I feel like as a maker and as a creator, I know that feeling that you're talking about. And so we're talking with... Were you ever called Queen Zora Von Pavanin? I get a lot of iterations because, of course, I'm Zora Von Pavanin on Facebook, but my Instagram handle is QueenPavanin.
Speaker: Yes. So a lot of people backstage will just shorthand it and call me ZVP. And some people do call me Queen Zora. Some people call me The Queen. There's a lot of different sort of iterations and all of them are great. You know, it's like anybody who does for less fucking they have 20 names anyway. So it's like, it's like they want to call me. It's like keeping track of names. ZVP I would immediately thought because we talk about comic books and graphic novels.
Speaker: movies, there's AVP, which is aliens versus predator. And now I know that what the Z is, you know, and with our names, I say this is Vellante. This is Ken Vellante recording Zora von Poffin. It's just a lot of alternating between consonant and vowels almost all the way through that that tagline.
Speaker: The name of the podcast is something rather than nothing. And that's a big question I asked Zora, and I'm hoping you have the answer to it. Why is this? Yeah. This is episode number 10. I keep asking folks this question. It's an intimidating one, but this episode 10, Zora, not to put any pressure on you, but why is there something rather than nothing? Because you can. To me, the answer is because you can.
Speaker: If you could do something rather than nothing if you could be something rather than Nothing or do something further than what you've already done Why wouldn't you? That I don't know I I don't know that I have more to say on it than that like the answer is why wouldn't you? Yeah, you can just you could just yeah, it's Like why the fuck not? exclamation point
Speaker: Yeah. And I think a lot of the art that you do is inspirational in such a way. I mean, I was even going to ask, you know, why do you create? I think most of what you talked about is why you create because of the intense the intensity that you feel for it, the authenticity that that that really comes through. Zora, I want to just kind of at the end here, have it open ended. I think there's a lot of things you talked about.
Speaker: In the interview that that people would really be interested in as far as maybe things you create or you Is there anything you want to share with with with listeners about maybe ways to connect to what you do and you know? You know the type of art forms, you know that that you love and participate in sure I hate to do like social media plug, but honestly
Speaker: It's just this sort of currency that we all sort of have bought into that I think a lot of people aren't that excited about anymore. But we, we have created this infrastructure and currently there are not that many solutions out of it. However, um, one second, one second, Zora, I need, I need show off Zora right now. Oh, oh dang. Oh, hey, all you fabulous listeners out there. If you want to know what I'm up to, you should go to Instagram and check out Queen Pavanine.
Speaker: So how's that for a plug? I know the showoff one was in there. I we all have different iterations of our personality and you know and part of this too is You know when I mentioned about popular philosophy or whatever this is right and whether it's art whether it's psychology whether it's the things that we're doing I know you spend a lot of time creating what you're creating and that's why I encourage the
Speaker: the show offs are because it's I think it's a lot of fun. I think it's infectious in the sense of creating. And so, yeah, that your Instagram is fantastic.
Speaker: The documentary, of course, is Glitter Tribe, Burlesque. Is that the proper title? Actually, I have a little bit of trivia for you on that. OK, could you do that? Yeah, great. The original title of the documentary was Glitter Tribe. But because we got picked up by Netflix and we started having this conversation with them sort of in tandem, they sort of alerted us that
Speaker: or we were able to come into the data that because so much scrolling happens, people sort of tune out after they get through the first few letters of the alphabet when they're searching for things to watch. So it was determined that creating a name that started with a very early letter in the alphabet would be to everyone's benefit. Thusly burlesque heart of the glitter tribe became the final iteration and title of the documentary.
Speaker: And I'm sure, too, there must have been another executive somewhere who was saying, well, what about the photography? What about the pictures? Who's on the cover? And what about these fantastic costumes? I think that might draw people, too. But that explains the B. That explains the B. Well, also, I mean, Glitter Tribe is sort of an internal it's an internal expression. And so I think it was also sort of established that like it may have been too much of an internal reference.
Speaker: And so it was then sort of established that we needed something that clearly announced to an unknowing audience what the documentary was or what the content of the film was going to be. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And on that too, I'm glad I remembered to ask you this. If you can let
Speaker: the performers who were in that documentary just know that I said hello and really appreciated just their honesty. I laughed so much at that. I had such, it was just such an enjoyable piece. And of course I was able to connect with you in your artwork. And so I want to express my honest gratitude to all of them.
Speaker: Yeah, and to you, Zora, it's been an incredible chat. It's been wonderful to talk to you and to learn and experience just your energy and zeal towards what you do and what you create. And I just want to let you know that I'm very thankful for your time and for being excited and being on this podcast.
Speaker: Lovely. Well, I am very happy to have been invited and it was really lovely to chat with you and I'm very honored and humbled to be here, so thank you. Thank you so much, Zora, and I hope you have a great rest of the evening. I will. Thank you so much, Ken. You are listening to something rather than nothing.
