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The House of David, The Ark, and Temples: Exploring the Sacred and the Cinematic
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In this episode, Dan Sanchez and Pastor Ridley Barron talked about the recent reading in 2 Samuel and 1 Chronicles, while also reviewing the new series House of David on Amazon. They discussed the show's portrayal of biblical events, where it aligned well with scripture, and where it took creative liberties, especially around David's character and Saul's mental decline. The conversation also dived into deeper topics like the significance of Jerusalem, the mystery of the Ark of the Covenant, the origins of synagogues, and David's passionate worship, tying them back to broader lessons for believers today.
Timestamps:
00:01 Introduction and overview of House of David series
01:20 Discussion on Saul's mental illness portrayal
02:47 Timeline of David’s early story and realism of the series
03:50 David’s family background and Hollywood liberties
06:00 Character development of David vs Jonathan in the show
07:26 Depictions of Hebrew culture and battle scenes
10:06 The significance of Jerusalem in scripture
12:30 The Ark of the Covenant and its mysteries
16:36 Theories about the Ark’s disappearance
18:14 Why David wanted to build the temple
20:46 Why Christians today don't build temples
21:51 Origins of synagogues and the word "church"
24:22 David’s dance before the Lord and lessons on undignified worship
28:40 Pride, bitterness, and Michal’s story
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:01
Dan Sanchez
Welcome back to the Grove Hill Church Podcast. I'm Dan Sanchez, and I'm joined again by, with Ridley, Pastor Ridley Barron. I got a mouthful today.
Discussion on 'House of David' Series
00:00:10
Dan Sanchez
Talking about 2 Samuel and 1 Chronicles, some very interesting things happened there.
00:00:16
Dan Sanchez
But before we dive into like this week's reading, I thought it'd be fun to dive into a series that just happens to be like coming out and a lot of people watching it about the same time we're going through first and second Samuel and Chronicles and all this stuff called the house of David on Amazon.
00:00:31
Dan Sanchez
I know we talked about it briefly last week.
00:00:31
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:00:33
Dan Sanchez
I'd watched maybe like the first episode by that point, but now I've watched it all. I know you've watched, have you, have you finished the whole thing?
00:00:39
Ridley Barron
Finish the whole first series. Yeah.
00:00:40
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. and I, I thought it was fun. but there's a number of things in there. I'm like, Oh, let's just bring that up on the podcast since it's kind of in lines with what we're reading and studying and you're preaching about right now.
00:00:47
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:00:49
Dan Sanchez
I'm sure a lot of the congregations watching it, I thought it was pretty well done and mostly stayed to the story, but there's a few critical stupid things they did.
00:00:56
Ridley Barron
Yeah. Yep.
00:00:58
Dan Sanchez
and my opinion i'm like, why'd they do that?
00:00:58
Ridley Barron
A few little bumps in the road.
00:01:01
Dan Sanchez
Oh, well,
00:01:03
Ridley Barron
i would i Would I recommend people watching it? Yeah, I think it can help you help you put some of the scripture you're reading into context
Portrayal of Saul's Mental Illness
00:01:13
Ridley Barron
because they do a lot of good stuff with the cultural part of David, his time.
00:01:13
Dan Sanchez
Oh
00:01:19
Ridley Barron
I think the first thing that was kind of off-putting for me was it seemed like, in the especially in the early episodes, that they were focusing too much on Saul's mental illness.
00:01:31
Dan Sanchez
oh yeah.
00:01:31
Ridley Barron
You know, they they played it off.
00:01:32
Dan Sanchez
They really play that up.
00:01:33
Ridley Barron
Yeah, they were big time, you know, and and I could be wrong on my timeline, but I don't really feel like he was that far gone that early in David's story. I felt like it was more after David and Goliath that Saul kind of went down the path of you know, being, being real bitter because of the fact that David had beaten Goliath.
00:01:55
Dan Sanchez
No, I thought that part was was okay. I think they just played it up way more because they made it a really big deal.
00:01:58
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:01:59
Dan Sanchez
Like he was almost like incapacitated most of the time deal.
00:02:00
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:02:02
Ridley Barron
Right. Right.
00:02:03
Dan Sanchez
And I'm like, because no, David does go and get called to serve Saul as a minstrel before the David and like Goliath thing happened.
00:02:08
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:02:10
Dan Sanchez
Then he does go home, which means he goes from home and goes to the battlefield to bring supplies to his brothers.
00:02:17
Ridley Barron
Yep.
00:02:17
Dan Sanchez
Right. So like that timeline checked out.
00:02:19
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:02:19
Dan Sanchez
So the one one thing that I liked about it is it kind of does showcase a little bit more how much time is passing in between these things. You read through 1 Samuel and you got to realize like months go by between some, like which one one sentence changes and you don't realize that like five months have taken place or years had gone by.
00:02:30
Ridley Barron
Oh, yeah. right
00:02:35
Ridley Barron
Yes. Yeah, it was.
00:02:37
Dan Sanchez
You're just reading through a whole lifetime within a few chapters. You're like, my gosh.
00:02:40
Ridley Barron
It was years between David's anointing and the fact that he finally became king.
00:02:43
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:02:44
Ridley Barron
i mean, so, yeah.
00:02:45
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:02:45
Ridley Barron
You and I were talking before we came online too
Artistic Liberties in the Series
00:02:48
Ridley Barron
about this. They play up this thing about David being an illegitimate child from a mother that has passed away. And as we talked about online, we we don't get any indication that was the case. David seemed to be from a loving family, even though he was treated as the runt of the family a little bit. He had a loving dad and mom. seemed to be just a normal family from that day and age.
00:03:11
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:03:12
Ridley Barron
Most of that comes from the idea in one of the penitent psalms that he writes, Psalm 51, where he talks about his birth being birth of originating in sin, but it was not an illegitimate child.
00:03:13
Dan Sanchez
de
00:03:25
Ridley Barron
He's talking about the idea of original sin, that all of us from birth are sinful beings. So that part was played up really, really big. And as you can imagine, anything that's put together this day and age, entertainment-wise, has to have a love story to it.
00:03:39
Ridley Barron
So and the relationship
00:03:41
Dan Sanchez
Yeah, they did play that out.
00:03:42
Ridley Barron
between David and they call her McCall.
00:03:42
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:03:44
Ridley Barron
I think most of us call her Michael just because we're from the South. But, but, you know, even way before she is given to him as his wife, after defeating Goliath, they were playing up the, the romantic interest between the two of them a little bit.
00:03:48
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:04:01
Dan Sanchez
that was fine with me because you're like, they did spend time in the palace together. they're There, there might've been some glances and some things.
00:04:08
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:04:08
Dan Sanchez
They probably weren't holding hands. Cause they do that in the series.
00:04:11
Ridley Barron
Now,
00:04:12
Dan Sanchez
You're like, e that day and age. Yeah. They're, that was asking for a whooping or a death.
00:04:17
Ridley Barron
yeah And at at the end, I pretty much, yeah, you know, kind of expected it when they got to this part. But, you know, when David is preparing to go out into the battlefield to face Goliath, she makes that appearance in the tent and gives him a kiss.
00:04:28
Dan Sanchez
Oh Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:32
Ridley Barron
And that little stolen moment of romance. Yeah, that probably would have been been followed by stoning or something.
00:04:36
Dan Sanchez
Yep.
00:04:38
Dan Sanchez
you You can tell that they're trying to make it realistic enough that they don't offend people who believe that it's true.
00:04:44
Ridley Barron
yeah
00:04:45
Dan Sanchez
But it's also, i don't i haven't looked this up. I don't know for certain, but like and't I don't get that the guy's actually a believer, Jew or Christian.
00:04:52
Ridley Barron
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:54
Dan Sanchez
This is a secular guy trying to make an awesome story. And so they're taking liberties. And they do flash up at the beginning of every episode, like, hey, this doesn't always stay according to historical records.
00:05:02
Ridley Barron
Right. Right. And I appreciate them acknowledging that.
00:05:04
Dan Sanchez
to like I'm like, thanks for at least saying that. I think the one thing that I think myths me the most is that they don't really do David's character justice because I think everybody reads it like David's pretty honorable in almost all his interactions and respectful.
00:05:07
Ridley Barron
Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:23
Dan Sanchez
But in this series, they kind of put a little bit of like selfish ambition in him and give him a little bit more of like this chip on his shoulder.
00:05:29
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:05:32
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:05:33
Dan Sanchez
I'm the runt, therefore I'm ugh. Like...
00:05:35
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:05:35
Dan Sanchez
I got issues with people like they have, I guess maybe I'd say classic storytelling, right?
00:05:37
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:05:40
Dan Sanchez
Like the, the main character has to be kind of unlikable in the beginning.
00:05:41
Ridley Barron
Mm-hmm.
00:05:45
Dan Sanchez
Right.
00:05:45
Ridley Barron
Mm-hmm.
00:05:45
Dan Sanchez
And then that's why he has to save the cat to make him somewhat redeemable.
00:05:45
Ridley Barron
right
00:05:48
Dan Sanchez
So you can kind of go with him. If he's too likable, like Captain America, then it's harder to you know, really fall in love with the character through the series.
00:05:56
Ridley Barron
yeah
00:05:57
Dan Sanchez
That's my guess as to why they did that. Because Jonathan, they held true, right?
00:06:01
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:06:01
Dan Sanchez
Jonathan, you're like, that's that's my man.
00:06:01
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:06:03
Dan Sanchez
Like, come on, Jonathan's the guy's guy.
00:06:04
Ridley Barron
Right. Yeah.
00:06:06
Dan Sanchez
He's loyal. He's respectful. He's trying to serve God and respect his father at the same time.
00:06:09
Ridley Barron
Yep.
00:06:12
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:06:12
Dan Sanchez
Like, he's showing up like Captain America.
00:06:14
Ridley Barron
Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, and to their credit, some of the liberties they took very much in the way that Chosen has done it, there their artistic license with telling the story,
00:06:25
Ridley Barron
did help connect some dots and you go, oh, I could see how that would have been the way this unfolded. We don't read about it scripture. There's no no details for us. That could be a feasible way that David and Jonathan first met and Jonathan began to see him as something more than just a shepherd boy or whatever.
00:06:41
Ridley Barron
So there were some really cool places in there that I really enjoyed. And and for me, the I would say, what was it? Seven weeks long, I think, or eight weeks, something like that.
00:06:48
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Something seven, episodes.
00:06:50
Ridley Barron
For me, the last four weeks were probably more enjoyable than the first two or three.
00:06:55
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Ultimately, I like what these things can do to help paint a picture of the culture, the context, some of the songs he's saying and the way he's saying it.
00:07:00
Ridley Barron
Yes.
00:07:03
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:07:05
Dan Sanchez
Like I've heard enough Hebrew music that I was like, oh, like it felt spiritual.
00:07:05
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:07:09
Dan Sanchez
It felt like it moved me.
00:07:09
Ridley Barron
Yeah. yeah
00:07:11
Dan Sanchez
I was like, man, it probably didn't sound like that. Maybe it sounded like something else, but I was like, it's amazing. Like the kind, cause you think of like music back then, like how good a can it could have been? i'm like, well, it was pretty good.
00:07:22
Dan Sanchez
Like maybe it sounded like that.
00:07:23
Ridley Barron
yeah
00:07:24
Dan Sanchez
It's cool.
00:07:25
Ridley Barron
and One other little small
Series Encouraging Biblical Exploration
00:07:26
Ridley Barron
thing that they did in the battle scene between David and Goliath, you know, no spoiler alert, I hope right here, but oh the fact that he gets injured in the battle by a spear before he actually takes him down, and and you know, just adds to the drama of the story.
00:07:36
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:07:40
Ridley Barron
Again, it doesn't mean it couldn't have happened. We don't aren't told that in the Bible, though, so I kind of believe it didn't happen. But, you know, again, i appreciate people who are willing to take a chance and help us try to put these stories in an image where people can...
00:07:55
Ridley Barron
picture the Bible a little bit better.
00:07:57
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. And I'm like, well. we all know the story gets more and more dramatic as it moves along too. So I'm like, I'm looking forward to season two, which is supposed to come out in December or January of next year.
00:08:07
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:08:07
Dan Sanchez
so I'm like, all right, I'll,
00:08:08
Ridley Barron
Do you know how many seasons there will be? Yeah.
00:08:11
Dan Sanchez
I'm sure they're doing one season at a time, depending on viewership, right?
00:08:14
Ridley Barron
yeah good they
00:08:15
Dan Sanchez
Because the amount of money they spent on it was really, was a lot. You could tell that the production quality was really high, even like probably higher than what I'd say The Chosen was.
00:08:20
Ridley Barron
yeah
00:08:25
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:08:25
Dan Sanchez
But I still appreciate The Chosen more just because that's actually Christians consulting with theologians and trying to get it right, even though they have artistic license to give backstory that's untold.
00:08:30
Ridley Barron
Right. Right.
00:08:35
Ridley Barron
Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:36
Dan Sanchez
They're trying to keep it within the main narrative in the best way possible.
00:08:40
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:08:40
Dan Sanchez
So obviously like, oh, and the Nephilim was a really big thing here.
00:08:41
Ridley Barron
And let's be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:45
Dan Sanchez
That was the house of David went really strong on this whole Nephilim story. You're kind of like, okay, well, you had to do that.
00:08:49
Ridley Barron
yeah
00:08:52
Dan Sanchez
I get it.
00:08:53
Ridley Barron
Yeah. Right.
00:08:54
Dan Sanchez
Got explain where Goliath comes to from.
00:08:54
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:08:56
Dan Sanchez
him You couldn't just make that a mystery. They did they went deep into that.
00:08:57
Ridley Barron
yeah I do think to be clear, I don't want people to have misperceptions. This is not a low budget grade B Christian thing. Like some of them are are done. This is done really well.
00:09:08
Ridley Barron
Like you said, the production value is good. The storytelling is good. acting is really good.
00:09:13
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:13
Ridley Barron
I thought they did a fantastic job with their actors. So I'd, It would be the kind of thing that I wouldn't have a problem sitting my kids down in front of it and saying, let's have some table conversations about what we see when we watch it.
00:09:24
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:09:26
Dan Sanchez
Use it to just drive you back to the word and actually find out what happened.
00:09:29
Ridley Barron
Yes.
00:09:30
Dan Sanchez
I had to go back to be like, was David part of Saul's house before the Goliath thing happened?
00:09:34
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:09:35
Dan Sanchez
And he was. I had to go back and read it.
00:09:36
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:09:37
Dan Sanchez
I'm like, who called him? Was it his daughter? No. It was like Saul's advisors went and searched the land for a minstrel and found David.
00:09:43
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:09:45
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:09:45
Ridley Barron
Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:46
Dan Sanchez
That's how it actually happened. But i had to go back to the Word to verify and check it out. And that's what, hopefully, it gives us some understanding of like what it looked like, what it might have felt like, some of the timelines.
00:09:56
Dan Sanchez
But ultimately, should be driving us back to
Significance of Jerusalem
00:09:58
Dan Sanchez
the Word to better understand it.
00:09:59
Ridley Barron
Absolutely. That's a good way to sum it up.
00:10:03
Dan Sanchez
So moving on to this week's reading, a bunch of interesting things happened in 2 Samuel and 1 Chronicles.
00:10:07
Ridley Barron
Mm-hmm.
00:10:12
Dan Sanchez
One of the things that's always been fascinating to me is the city of Jerusalem. like You're like, how did this become the city?
00:10:17
Ridley Barron
Mm-hmm.
00:10:19
Dan Sanchez
like Why did David feel the need to go and conquer that? Why was this city so important to David? And then why did it become such an important... Why did it become the capital, essentially? Yeah.
00:10:30
Ridley Barron
That's a great question. You know, even in some of the Psalms later on, David makes reference to Mount Bashan and some of the other mountains in Israel being jealous of Mount Zion because it was chosen by God to be his dwelling place and all that kind of stuff. I don't, and maybe I should go back to scripture before I speak and and make a fool of myself, but I don't remember any place where God gives a reason for why he chose Israel.
00:10:55
Ridley Barron
that part of the world even to to be his place or that part of the promised land to be his dwelling place. But the connections for scripture are clear. You know, that's it's where Abraham went to sacrifice his son.
00:11:12
Ridley Barron
It's where earlier on
00:11:16
Ridley Barron
there some connections were established with other parts of the biblical story, God's story all the way through. And then, of course, As you get into 2 Samuel, this is where David goes to to make his sacrifice after the angel brings a plague on Israel because of David's sin. And so all the way, there's this thread running through scripture that Jerusalem has a special place in God's heart for some reason. it's It's not the highest mountain in Israel.
00:11:42
Ridley Barron
It's not the most beautiful mountain in Israel, but man, through all the way through Israel's history, it is the place very clearly.
00:11:50
Dan Sanchez
It is up on a hill. You don't realize it until you start driving up into the mountains from whatever the the airport which you arrive arrive to is on the coast of the Mediterranean and then you drive to you have to drive to Jerusalem.
00:11:54
Ridley Barron
Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:59
Ridley Barron
In Ben Gurion Airport.
00:12:03
Dan Sanchez
Yeah, yeah. You have to drive up into there and you start seeing all the pine trees and the stuff which I planted more recently.
00:12:09
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:12:09
Dan Sanchez
Otherwise, it's kind of deserty.
00:12:10
Ridley Barron
It is.
00:12:11
Dan Sanchez
Other than the pine trees they've all planted recently.
00:12:11
Ridley Barron
It is.
00:12:13
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:12:13
Ridley Barron
And once you get past Jerusalem between there and the jordan between Jordan River, everything, it's wilderness, pure wilderness.
00:12:18
Dan Sanchez
yeah Oh, yeah.
00:12:19
Ridley Barron
I mean, it's everything you picture a wilderness to be.
Mystery of the Ark of the Covenant
00:12:24
Dan Sanchez
one thing that was interesting to me was this whole story of the Ark of the Covenant. Like, it's like the thing of legend, right? And we all remember like, like Indiana Jones and the, the arc.
00:12:34
Ridley Barron
Right. Right.
00:12:36
Dan Sanchez
And this is where the story of the, like the, how the movie comes off this story of like the guy touching the arc and just dying. Right. Because it's, it's too holy.
00:12:42
Ridley Barron
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:12:44
Dan Sanchez
Why do you think God made such a spectacle around the arc? Is it just like, he wants people to know what his holiness there, that he's that holy. And if you touch this, like it's bad. Or do you think there's something more going on?
00:12:55
Ridley Barron
i I think it's a teaching tool. I think God is saying a healthy fear and respect of me is going to go a long way in life for you. And so since you can't see me, we're going use these articles to be teaching tools about how reverent you should be in approaching me and dealing with me and having a relationship with me.
00:13:14
Ridley Barron
These articles, there's nothing... remarkable about them except for the fact that God has used them in the history of Israel and so by his by connection to him then they have become this place of honor and reverence in the life of Israel and I think that kind of connects people to to God in that way great question great question you know there's a lot of people who say it's in Ethiopia for some reason I think there was
00:13:33
Dan Sanchez
Where do you think the arc
00:13:45
Dan Sanchez
I've heard that one. Yeah.
00:13:46
Ridley Barron
something about a battle or it got taken away down there or something. And it was there. There are some people who say that it, we know exactly where it is. It's buried somewhere under the city of Jerusalem, waiting for the time of the return of Christ.
00:14:01
Dan Sanchez
I've heard that theory.
00:14:02
Ridley Barron
oh That was pretty interesting.
00:14:03
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:14:05
Ridley Barron
Kind of dug in that.
00:14:05
Dan Sanchez
I heard it's buried under wherever Christ got crucified. And then when the earthquake split, his blood fell down through the cracks of the earth and fell on the altar, which you're like, man, that would be cool.
00:14:08
Ridley Barron
Yep. Yep.
00:14:14
Ridley Barron
That would be so cool.
00:14:15
Dan Sanchez
We won't know until we die, but sure.
00:14:16
Ridley Barron
Well, lets that's kind of a Steven Spielberg kind of moment.
00:14:16
Dan Sanchez
That's an urban legend one.
00:14:22
Ridley Barron
You know, there's lots of theories about it. I don't think anybody really knows, which is so, so tragic because this is this is the centerpiece of their faith, at least the visible part of it, for centuries.
00:14:34
Ridley Barron
How do you lose contact with something like that? How do you let that go away?
00:14:38
Dan Sanchez
which What does the scripture say about it? like I can't even remember like where it mentions in the scripture that like yeah you like it had to have been lost when Babylon, so Babylon might have taken it.
00:14:48
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:14:49
Dan Sanchez
I don't know.
00:14:50
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:14:50
Dan Sanchez
It's gold, so they took all the other gold stuff. so
00:14:53
Ridley Barron
Yep.
00:14:53
Dan Sanchez
I don't remember where scripture recalls where it was last
00:14:53
Ridley Barron
I've heard. I think that I think the scripture says that Babylon took it. I want to say that scripture says that it was returned with the the exile people when they came back.
00:15:07
Ridley Barron
But who knows? I mean, it could be that the Romans later took it and i don't know, destroyed it, melted it all down. put it in their own museum and it's sitting somewhere in the back of a museum somewhere and nobody knows what it is. I mean, kind of like an Indiana Jones type kind of thing.
00:15:25
Ridley Barron
I don't know. It's, it's, it's interesting theory and there's like, it's kind of fun to dig into. I'd be curious what chat GBT says about it.
00:15:34
Dan Sanchez
as It says the last, like nobody really knows. ChatGPT says 2 Chronicles 35.3 is the last known mention of it during King Josiah's reforms.
00:15:45
Dan Sanchez
And then everything else is just kind of assumed from there.
00:15:48
Ridley Barron
So what does 2 Chronicles 35.3 actually say? Okay.
00:15:50
Dan Sanchez
says, he said to the Levites who taught all Israel and who had been consecrated to the Lord, put the sacred ark in the temple that Solomon, son of the son of David, king of Israel built. And that's the last like mention of the ark.
00:16:02
Ridley Barron
So the last picture we have for sure is that it was actually where it was supposed to be, doing what it's supposed to do.
00:16:06
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:16:07
Ridley Barron
But yeah, who knows?
00:16:07
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. And then most people assume that it never is mentioned again, but we assume that the Babylonian exile is the place where it probably might've been taken somewhere.
00:16:16
Ridley Barron
don't know.
00:16:19
Dan Sanchez
Uh,
00:16:19
Ridley Barron
I think the Iranians are sitting on k it in Tehran.
00:16:22
Dan Sanchez
Oh, here it is. It's actually in 2 Maccabees. Okay, so you have to start going into the Apocrypha.
00:16:25
Ridley Barron
Oh, really?
00:16:27
Dan Sanchez
Of course, this is according to ChaggibT, so take it with a grain of salt.
00:16:27
Ridley Barron
Okay.
00:16:30
Dan Sanchez
It says, 2 Maccabees 2, says, Jeremiah hid the ark in the cave of Mount Nebo, saying it would remain hidden until God gathers his people again.
00:16:40
Ridley Barron
Wow.
00:16:40
Dan Sanchez
So there you go.
00:16:41
Ridley Barron
I never heard that one. and never heard that one.
00:16:44
Dan Sanchez
I'm like, there you go. it's it's That's why Protestants don't talk about it, because it's in the Maccabees.
00:16:49
Ridley Barron
Connected. Yep. I'm surprised the Catholics aren't over there digging up Mount Nebo to try to find it.
00:16:51
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:16:54
Dan Sanchez
They probably built the church on top of it. If you've been to Jerusalem, you know.
00:16:56
Ridley Barron
Probably so. That's what they do.
00:16:58
Dan Sanchez
I was amazed.
00:16:59
Ridley Barron
Yep.
00:16:59
Dan Sanchez
Everywhere I went in Jerusalem, the Catholics had built a church on top of whatever relic that was there.
00:17:04
Ridley Barron
Yeah. yeah
00:17:05
Dan Sanchez
Peter's home? Oh, we're going to build a church on top of that.
00:17:07
Ridley Barron
Exactly. and And when Dan says on top of it, he
David's Temple Aspirations
00:17:11
Ridley Barron
means on top of it.
00:17:11
Dan Sanchez
Literally on top of it.
00:17:12
Ridley Barron
He lives literally on top of where Peter lives.
00:17:13
Dan Sanchez
or or Or it's like hanging over it in some way.
00:17:17
Ridley Barron
It looks like some kind of spaceship sitting over the top of it.
00:17:17
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah, did that one on top of Peter's house is definitely spaceship looking. But I will say they're they're pretty good with our architecture.
00:17:22
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:17:25
Dan Sanchez
Lots of beautiful cathedrals there, and which is a perfect segue into the next conversation around temples, which is kind of interesting that the Catholics kind of took up.
00:17:26
Ridley Barron
Mm-hmm.
00:17:33
Ridley Barron
Mm-hmm.
00:17:35
Dan Sanchez
they don't Catholics don't build temples, but man, they do build some pretty cool temples. churches and the protestants we've talked about this before have not a lot of desire to build elaborate buildings because the building is worthless it's the people in the building that matters so much but why david wants to build this temple god makes it clear that the temple's not really something it's not his idea yet god lets him do it anyway why
00:18:04
Ridley Barron
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Just a guess here. I would say that maybe David knows, I mean, excuse me, God knows as human beings.
00:18:17
Ridley Barron
We have to have physical things to see and look at as part of our worship. And he wasn't going to give us an idol to look at. That obviously had been ruled out long, long time ago.
00:18:30
Ridley Barron
But giving a place where his presence could dwell, that they could see as a some kind of thing they could put their hands on. where without And here's the here's the crazy thing about it. Even though God went to great lengths to try to prevent it, they wound up worshiping the temples.
00:18:45
Ridley Barron
You know, you read through Israel's history, they worship the temple.
00:18:46
Dan Sanchez
True.
00:18:49
Ridley Barron
Some of the great Psalms were written about, you know, the temple and and its magnificence and that kind of stuff. And it was the, it's kind of like the White House for the United States. If the White House ever burned the ground, you know, the nation would go into depression over it.
00:19:03
Ridley Barron
And that's exactly what happened with the destruction of the temple when the Babylonians came in. And, It meant so much to them, but I think that's probably what God was kind of doing and saying, Hey, I'm going to kind of give you something that you can kind of put your hands on and see, but it's not going to be me. It's not going to be an idol. It's just going to be a place that represents my presence among my people here.
00:19:23
Dan Sanchez
You think he saw his motives and it's like, well, wrong thing. good Good heart, though.
00:19:29
Ridley Barron
Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:29
Dan Sanchez
I think I can work with this.
00:19:31
Ridley Barron
Yeah. And of course, David later spills the beans about the actual reason and that God gave was, you know, you got blood all over your hands as a warrior. And it's not that you did war in a wrong. You did it for me.
00:19:44
Ridley Barron
You did it for the cause of of the Holy Land. But we're going to hand it over to your son. and you know, technically, if we're if we're trying to draw a line around it, it was kind of a co-venture between David and Solomon, even though Solomon gets credit for building it.
00:20:00
Ridley Barron
Because by the time David hands off the the throne to Solomon, he has given him the plans. He's brought in all the bricks, stone, gold, silver, everything that's going to be used for it. And he's even divided up the labor farm. So basically Solomon just has to come in and point and go, you go here, you go there.
00:20:17
Ridley Barron
So it really was a joint effort between God, Solomon and David to put this thing together.
Evolution of Worship Spaces
00:20:23
Ridley Barron
But Solomon is <unk> credited with putting the final pieces together and and opening the doors and dedicating it and that kind of stuff.
00:20:30
Dan Sanchez
Why don't we build temples today?
00:20:34
Ridley Barron
I think because the Holy Spirit dwells in us. The Holy New Testament, that's the emphasis that the Holy Spirit is wherever we are. We don't have to have special buildings to go to. And the buildings we do go to don't have to be luxurious or gaudy or not even necessarily dedicated specifically for that purpose. I mean, Lord knows a lot of church plants in America meet in bowling alleys and skating rinks and all kinds of places.
00:20:59
Ridley Barron
So it's more about the fact that we are God's temple, as Paul puts it, and then temples are no longer necessary. And, you know, I love, personally, I love seeing a really beautiful sanctuary or a beautiful temple because I think when God gets something from us, he deserves our very best.
00:21:18
Ridley Barron
But I could see where those things become the focus of our worship rather than the tools for our worship.
00:21:25
Dan Sanchez
I did a deeper dive study this weekend on like the intertestamental period because I was really curious. I'm like, where did synagogues come from?
00:21:35
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:21:35
Dan Sanchez
That wasn't a thing in the Old Testament. They're a thing in the New Testament where they come from.
00:21:38
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:21:38
Dan Sanchez
And so, and then I was like, and why, why don't we meet in synagogues? Why do we call it church?
00:21:44
Ridley Barron
Mm-hmm.
00:21:44
Dan Sanchez
Like what happened with the words that we split this way?
00:21:47
Ridley Barron
Yep.
00:21:47
Dan Sanchez
And this is what I found. We started calling them synagogues because that's the Greek word for gathering.
00:21:52
Ridley Barron
Deal.
00:21:53
Dan Sanchez
And so they started having these, it's a long story of why, like, we started having rabbis and all this kind of stuff in the intertestamental period, the 400 years in between. But they started gathering together to teach God's law in and Babylon, because a few of them were finally like, okay, like, we've screwed up too many times, and now we've gone and done it.
00:22:09
Dan Sanchez
like we
00:22:09
Ridley Barron
like yeah
00:22:10
Dan Sanchez
we And I guess that trauma shocked them hard enough that they actually start following the ways after multiple generations for the first time, at least a remnant did in Babylon, because they had a few good leaders in a row.
00:22:21
Dan Sanchez
You know, you got Daniel, you got Nehemiah, you got Ezra, kind of lead them back. And they're actually holding to it for 400 years afterwards.
00:22:24
Ridley Barron
yep
00:22:27
Dan Sanchez
so But they start developing the practice of just meeting together to learn God's law. And they caught they just call it the gathering. And by the time it gets into the New Testament, they call it a synagogue, which is the Greek word for a gathering place.
00:22:39
Dan Sanchez
by the time the believers come around, they I guess they have to differentiate between synagogue gatherings because they're getting persecuted by everybody in the synagogue.
00:22:48
Ridley Barron
right
00:22:49
Dan Sanchez
So I think they start calling it something around like the gathering of like those who are called or something like that, which ended up being translated eventually to church, which is like an off name of the gathered ecclesia.
00:22:54
Ridley Barron
me
00:22:57
Ridley Barron
yeah yeah church actually if i'm not mistaken the word church actually comes from a german word hundreds of years later that that actual word church is like kirka and german
00:23:02
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:23:08
Ridley Barron
But that Kierke word is what you just mentioned.
00:23:09
Dan Sanchez
Okay.
00:23:11
Dan Sanchez
I'm from Ecclesia.
00:23:11
Ridley Barron
it
00:23:12
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:23:12
Ridley Barron
Yeah, it comes from Ecclesia.
00:23:12
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:23:13
Ridley Barron
So this is kind of like along the way words have replaced, but
00:23:13
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
David's Dance and its Implications
00:23:17
Ridley Barron
still had the same meaning.
00:23:19
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:23:20
Ridley Barron
I had forgotten. I'm glad you said that, that synagogue meant gathering. and Yeah. And it was, you know, under the persecution they faced both in in the time during the diaspora where they are spread out all over the place, dispersion.
00:23:32
Ridley Barron
And even when they came back, they were very limited and obviously didn't have a temple to come back to originally when they came back. So they started meeting in the local gatherings to try to, like you said, hey, let's try to get back to the former glory that we had in the relationship with God because we really blew it last time and So that that kind of became a sticking place for people who couldn't make the trip to Jerusalem and really had no purpose to go there because there was no altar, no temple, anything to do and until Ezra and that crew started rebuilding it.
00:24:03
Dan Sanchez
My last question I have for you is around David's dancing. Of course, it's a famous story in Christianity where he's dancing and he will say, i will be more indignified than this.
00:24:09
Ridley Barron
Yes.
00:24:12
Dan Sanchez
And then his wife, poor girl, is, guess, too prideful to go with that.
00:24:13
Ridley Barron
Yes.
00:24:19
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:24:19
Dan Sanchez
And then therefore is, I don't know if it's her own bitterness that keeps her, that makes her barren if they were never intimate again.
00:24:22
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:24:25
Dan Sanchez
And that's what keeps her barren. Or if God's just like, I don't like your heart, no more for you.
00:24:29
Ridley Barron
yeah yeah
00:24:30
Dan Sanchez
like I don't know which way it went, but clearly one of those things like got her.
00:24:33
Ridley Barron
right
00:24:35
Dan Sanchez
But I think David's model there, I'm like, is this something I need to think about a little bit more often as a Christian? like How often am i getting to a point where people are like, oh my gosh, like he's a little bit too passionate about Jesus.
00:24:48
Dan Sanchez
I'm like, when's the last time someone's told me that? I have had people tell me that, but it's been a long time.
00:24:50
Ridley Barron
yeah and
00:24:54
Dan Sanchez
right I'm like, should I be pushing it to the point where people are kind of like, hey, you're a little bit too heavenly minded.
00:24:55
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:25:00
Dan Sanchez
no
00:25:00
Ridley Barron
So let me back up in the story just a little bit, because one of the things I was taught a lot growing up in my conservative Southern Baptist churches was that Jesus danced in, I mean, that David danced in his underwear. And that was the reason that Michael was upset with him.
00:25:14
Ridley Barron
And as I grew and dug in myself, I realized he wasn't in his underwear.
00:25:18
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:25:19
Ridley Barron
He was just in informal clothing that a king would not normally appear in. He actually was dressed like
00:25:23
Dan Sanchez
Oh, I figured he was just shirtless.
00:25:25
Ridley Barron
Yeah, you he was just kind of like the priest almost would wear without the ephod on top of it. It was just a linen garment.
00:25:32
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah. yeah
00:25:34
Ridley Barron
So it wasn't so much what he was wearing. It was his behavior that was seen as undignified.
00:25:39
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:25:40
Ridley Barron
And I think that Michael or McCall, whichever name you want to call her by, I think that what her problem was, how dare you act that way in front of our subjects?
00:25:51
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:25:51
Ridley Barron
And so it was about her being elite. and not liking your husband behaving that way.
00:25:55
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:25:58
Ridley Barron
So to they answer your question, man, what would the kingdom of God look like if more of us had that kind of opinion to say, i I don't care what you think about me. This is what God has compelled me to do. I'm going to do it without second thought.
00:26:10
Dan Sanchez
Yeah, it kind of makes me think back to this.
00:26:11
Ridley Barron
So Dan, what power to you?
00:26:13
Dan Sanchez
I mean, it kind of makes me think back to some of them my more charismatic worship sessions that I've been to. I'm like, I mean, sometimes they get a little crazy, but you're like, well, like. Sometimes maybe that's what it needs to look like.
00:26:27
Ridley Barron
I think this is one of those common sense things where you go is is the reason that you, what you're doing is bad because you're just different than me, then there's, there's no problem. It's okay to be different.
00:26:39
Ridley Barron
If what you're doing is becoming a distraction and trying to draw attention to yourself, then it's the wrong motive for doing it. It's like walking into a very strict, very traditional church of Christ and lifting your hands while they're singing the song.
00:26:52
Ridley Barron
That's not about drawing attention to yourself. That's about worshiping the way God has compelled you to worship, you know?
00:26:57
Dan Sanchez
I've never been to one of their worship sessions
00:26:59
Ridley Barron
Yeah. But, you know, i've I've been in some of these non-denom and church of God kind of places where people are running around the room and all that kind of stuff.
00:27:09
Ridley Barron
And I'm like, nah, I don't see how that brings a whole lot of glory to God.
00:27:12
Dan Sanchez
you mean assemblies of God?
00:27:14
Ridley Barron
Yeah. Assemblies of God. Yeah.
00:27:15
Dan Sanchez
Okay, I'm like, Church of God, well, I was thinking of the Church of Christ around here.
00:27:17
Ridley Barron
Sorry.
00:27:19
Dan Sanchez
you know, I'm like, i I would think they were the people who were not raising their hands.
00:27:20
Ridley Barron
No, the, the, the church of God, let's mean some those church of gods, they man, they'll, uh, they'll get a little active. Let's call that.
00:27:29
Dan Sanchez
I been to the Church of God?
00:27:30
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:27:31
Dan Sanchez
I know the Assemblies of God can go, are pretty crisp.
00:27:31
Ridley Barron
Assemblies of God, very, very much the same thing.
00:27:33
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah. yeah
00:27:35
Ridley Barron
yeah. So I, I think the the truth of the matter is that, David was worshiping without regard of what others thought of him while Michal was standing in a window and all she was thinking about was what others thought of her.
00:27:52
Ridley Barron
Um, that's what led to the problem. And, you know, to your other question, i actually had the lady email me yesterday, I think, and asked that very question. Was she punished for what she said? And I said, I don't know for sure, but be very careful what you say to your husband.
00:28:09
Ridley Barron
So, who knows?
00:28:10
Dan Sanchez
or well
00:28:10
Ridley Barron
I mean, I, yeah I could see God absolutely punishing her for not having the right heart and right attitude about a glorious event that brought him on her.
00:28:18
Dan Sanchez
I kind of took it as like a be careful to let bitterness creep into your heart because it can hurt you and maybe it's God's doing maybe it's just your own doing because you're letting business know bitterness become a poison in your heart and that can affect a lot of areas of your life physically, mentally, emotionally spiritually get you be careful
00:28:22
Ridley Barron
Yep. Yep.
00:28:27
Ridley Barron
Yep.
00:28:36
Ridley Barron
Well, and even a, you know, very clear theme all the way through scripture is that God is not a fan of pride and he will bring down prideful people. So for her to be so proud as to admonish her husband from worshiping God in his own way Maybe the worst punishment in the world would be to be humbled and never have children.
00:28:55
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:28:59
Dan Sanchez
Well, good lessons as we continue on in David's story. And I'm looking forward to continuing on as it gets even more intense over the next couple of weeks.
00:29:05
Ridley Barron
Yeah. yeah
00:29:07
Dan Sanchez
Thank you.