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Podcast 10 - A Revival?
38 Plays24 days ago
Come join us as we discuss some recent encouraging trends.
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Guest
00:00:09
Speaker
Hey, welcome back to the Grove Hill Podcast. We're excited to have you back for another day of conversation between myself and Pastor Kyle. And today we have our children's minister, Lori Harbour, back with us as a guest. ya Always exciting to have her here. here She's always fired up about it. I can see in her eyes.
00:00:26
Speaker
Hey, we thought we'd jump away from the kind of theology stuff we've been talking about
Gen Z and Revival
00:00:31
Speaker
last few weeks. we We said that we would kind of keep that rolling along in the background, but always wanted to come up and talk about some current topics and things that might be of interest today.
00:00:40
Speaker
And one of the things that has caught our attention in the last few months, especially since the assassination of Charlie Kirk, has been what appears to be an awakening, a revival that's going on, particularly among what we refer to as Generation Z. And that's a terminology we throw around a lot. Generation Z is mainly between the ages of 13 to 28. Those were born between and That's who we're referring to there.
00:01:07
Speaker
um but But there's been a lot of things, a lot of encouraging numbers. We've seen things like Bible sales have gone through the roof, um people admitting that they're returning back to church, people who've never been to church for the first time checking it out wanting to see what it was that Charlie was talking about.
00:01:24
Speaker
But ah amidst all that, there are some other numbers that maybe we should pay close attention to. Everybody wants to get excited and fired up about those numbers, and and there's good reason to. I do think God is doing something cool in our our culture, in our country.
00:01:40
Speaker
um But there's statistics. Like ah just the other day, I read that less than 50% of adults in our country believe that religion is important to them. that's ah That's a drastically low number for our country and its history.
00:01:54
Speaker
Another number is that nearly 40% of the Gen Z claims they have no religious affiliation at all.
Authenticity and Truth in Church
00:02:01
Speaker
So those kind of numbers as they're coming out and rising to the surface along with those other encouraging numbers, I think for especially for ministry leaders, we've got to start asking the question, okay, what's going on and how do we respond to it?
00:02:14
Speaker
So tell me, either one of you, what put your finger on it. What do you think the problem is? Where's the disconnect between Gen Z and what the church is doing today?
00:02:26
Speaker
Well, i would say something I've seen in the ministry in the last couple of years is that um the students are desiring and hunger for truth.
00:02:38
Speaker
And so I think if a church isn't really giving... direct truth, um if they're not giving, um kind of holding the churchy attitude from its leaders and stuff, that the students don't really want it. They're looking for authentic right truth. And so um I think if a church is following that guideline, um that the the students are attracted to it. I think they're entertaining them.
00:03:01
Speaker
yeah and instead of speaking a lot so so let me reframe the question because i think this is where you're headed with that answer so the problem is not really gen z as much as it is what we're doing to try to reach gen z for sure and so we are we're aiming at a target they don't care if we hit for sure um so we've got to as the church kind of get back to some really core values that truthfully were a part of the first century church um We've got to bring this back to the forefront because what Gen Z is legitimately looking for is an authentic connection and a relationship with the person
Institutional Distrust and Church Engagement
00:03:37
Speaker
we call God. Yes. Yeah.
00:03:39
Speaker
um So where do you think some of this distrust distrust has come from? Because I know in my mind, in in my 58 years of life, um there's been growing distrust in the government, growing distrust in institutions that once were kind of revered and respected,
00:03:57
Speaker
um I mean, everything from coaches and teachers to Supreme Court justices, even pastors now are looked at with a lot of skepticism, and a lot of cynicism because what's happened in our world.
00:04:10
Speaker
Would you say that's yeah that's been your experience with you with the people you work with, the kids, the youth, what they're seeing? um I mean, it's it's like a daily experience. You pick up the paper or nobody picks up a paper anymore. You look at your digital paper and you see the newsfeed and it says that so-and-so has given in to immoral behavior or unethical behavior.
00:04:34
Speaker
I've told y'all, I've told the church before, many days, many days will... So I guess question for me is, how we begin to... new pastor or youth minister or somebody has fallen by the way sad because of really really bad choices so i guess the question for me is how do we begin to to regain that trust how do we begin to reconnect for them that this is a place that really despite the failures of the people it really the story of jesus is really a place of connection for them i think we need to bridge the gap because oftentimes a church leader or a youth pastor or anybody will claim one thing but live a different thing and a student would rather see that you struggle a student would rather see that you you bleed like everybody else and that you have hard times
00:05:23
Speaker
and that you struggle to follow Christ. And so they once once they see that you're authentic in that, yeah they realize that they're not alone. Because the biggest thing in their culture is is that isolation or feeling alone.
00:05:35
Speaker
And once they do that, then it's like, if I can't keep up with the Christians, I'm not even gonna join them. Well, we're all struggling. We're all walking through this. And so um the authenticity, whenever I have any special speaker into my student life,
00:05:48
Speaker
Um, I tell them one thing, be as real as you can. If you're struggling with something, tell you struggle with it because that you're going to relate with them. yeah And at that point they realize it's not this unattainable
Social Media and AI's Impact on Perception
00:05:58
Speaker
thing. Uh, they can join in with it. Well, and I think this generation is so driven by social media and they see all this perfect, beautiful images of relationships and families. And I mean, even these dogs are perfect on Instagram. Yeah. Everything appears to be this wonderful, beautiful thing. And so kids are like, that's not even real. That's how can that even be real? So I think they struggle because they they see this fake thing. What they really want to see is the fruit in your life, not a fake post that says everything is great. on top of that, now we have created this thing called ai Yes. and And we're being warned you can't take anything at face value anymore. The picture of so-and-so with a ah girl could be something completely fabricated.
00:06:42
Speaker
A tsunami in the Philippines could have been something that's driven by AI. So now we're questioning everything about our existence. Yeah. And ironically, the very thing that I believe this generation looking for is found in the one thing they're choosing to ignore, which is the Bible and faith. i do I do believe, though, that they're not all choosing to not believe. Oh, no. agree. I think there's a huge shift in their minds and in what's actually happening so in their heart. So they actually are desiring for that yeah truth. And even if you're telling them hard things, they actually desire it.
00:07:15
Speaker
and There just has to be people willing to share that with them. Yes. Oftentimes someone 10, 15 years older than we're like, I have no way to relate with that person. And then they kind of disregard them. But if you're willing to get down and speak truth to them, it's exactly what they want to hear. Yeah.
00:07:29
Speaker
Yeah. I remember years ago when I was still in student ministry, and this was before all of this started happening, I had a couple of kids that were under my responsibility who approached me with that same kind of skepticism.
00:07:41
Speaker
It wasn't me. No, wasn't you. No, no, definitely not you. um But they came to me kind of with this approach of, I want to see how real and genuine you're going to be with me.
00:07:53
Speaker
And until they until I did, until I got through that and broke through that for them, there was this this real wall up where it's kind of like they would peek over the wall every now and then just to see what I was doing and and to kind of test the waters, if you will. But it wasn't until they saw me being really broken before them because of something I had done that I think either one of them really gave me a chance.
00:08:12
Speaker
So I think for leaders in the church today at all ages, from the pastor all the way down, um to use an old expression, they want to see you bleed. yeah They want to know, do you bleed the way we do? Do you hurt the way we do? Are you feeling the same?
Engaging Gen Z with Meaningful Causes
00:08:27
Speaker
um i had the opportunity recently to be in a church of a different Strain recently for for different calls so and in that particular church I Had the opportunity to work alongside this pastor and in that moment. I thought to myself. Is there anything real about you?
00:08:46
Speaker
Because the the way he dressed, the way he talked, I want to go, is this the way you act when you go home at night? right I mean, do you dress your children like this? Do you speak to your wife this way? and and umm you're looking at a guy who has literally grown up in the church.
00:09:01
Speaker
And there was a skepticism about me and the way I approached him. And sadly, that's that's where many of our mainline denominations have gone, where most of the church has gone. So I can kind of see where where young people are having a trouble around this.
00:09:15
Speaker
You know, two of the things that I think Gen Z really, really longs for is justice. Yeah. And um they they love to be a part of causes that make a difference.
00:09:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. you know so Talk to me about how you are working to bring that around for our our kids, our youth, those kinds of things. Yeah, for sure. we Probably the primary way is the Student Life Missions Week that we do. um The students love to rally behind something.
00:09:43
Speaker
And if it's for the cause of Jesus Christ, it fires them up even more. yeah And so when we go into the the towns, and it's not even like we're ministering to Christians or non-believers either way it's like if they can get behind something that's a cause for to bring good ah they want to stand behind it and so you tell you you center that around the gospel and then it just fires up the students for the name of Jesus Christ and so and that's probably the biggest way that we do it here but then also being available to reach out to anybody who has a need in the church oftentimes I'll get
00:10:15
Speaker
some type of need and I'll put four students in a group message and say, hey, this is a need, what are you going to do
Teaching Children Biblical Foundations
00:10:21
Speaker
about it? And then they've got to figure it out and rally their friends to go's go through do something. So um giving them a purpose at their age, and letting them know that they are the church, they're part of the church.
00:10:31
Speaker
and they have the full ability to do it just like we do, gives them something to stand behind. I think for the kids, we we're trying to root them in God's Word. So when they do get to that point, they're like, okay, this is why I'm doing this because I know that God's Word says this. yeah So we're trying to root them deep in the scriptures.
00:10:49
Speaker
So when they're in the youth group and young adults and all the things, they know, okay, and this is what being obedient looks like for me. Yeah. And i think for me, And it's been a long time since I worked with children specifically. that long. a long time.
00:11:02
Speaker
But for me, working especially with children...
00:11:07
Speaker
We as a church have got to get away from these dressed up stories. so I know you can't be graphic with kids by any any stretch of imagination, but but get away from these dressed up, cleaned up stories of the Bible and get to the authentic message of Jesus. Because the truth is that Jesus' message was as counter-cultural as they come. Even to this day it is.
00:11:28
Speaker
And that resonates with kids, especially the age of what Kyle works with. So what are we doing amongst our children to make sure they're seeing the real Bible, not the flannel board Bible that we grew up with where it was all pretty nice and neat?
00:11:42
Speaker
We're walking through from Genesis to Revelation within a two to three time year. Yeah. And I mean, these kids are starting in Genesis and pre-K, and by the time they get to first or second grade, they have have gone through the whole Bible. Yeah. I feel like that's...
00:11:55
Speaker
I mean, yeah and they're not, and the lessons that we've designed and picked out and researched are not shying away from things. This past Sunday, one of our lessons was the beheading of John the Baptist. And my older class did did not shy away from it. The kids wanted it. She was like, okay, this is what we're going to talk about today. And they're like, cool, yeah let's hear it. Like they wanted that truth and that weird story that you don't normally hear. um I met with a little five-year-old last week about her relationship with the Lord.
00:12:23
Speaker
And I asked her what was her favorite Bible story. Most of them are Noah's Ark, creation. She's like, no, Esther. I'm like, wow. But she comes from a home that's being taught the Bible. She's been in our...
Creating Spaces for Honest Faith Conversations
00:12:35
Speaker
classes for a couple years now and she knows the Bible as a whole, not just these pretty stories of, you know, all the good things, but she knows the hard, the hard things too. So it was really cool for me just to hear five-year-old say that. I had a member of my family asked me just the other day, her granddaughter is asking questions about scriptural stories and I can't remember the specific story, but she was asking about one. She said, how much do I tell her? Cause it's a little bit, you know, turns into one of those very real authentic raw stories and And I told her, I said, I would never shy away from asking ah answering the child's question.
00:13:11
Speaker
Don't feel like you have to tell them more than they need to know. But when they ask, tell them. Absolutely. Because if you don't tell them the truth, then they'll never never believe you again. So it's important that we speak the truth to kids and help them understand when Jesus was k nailed to a cross, it wasn't a pretty scene.
00:13:25
Speaker
Right. It was a horrible, horrible death, the most horrible death that's ever been experienced because of the nature of it as well as the injustice of it. Our kids need to know that story. Yeah, for sure. and And you're dealing with Alpha Generation and then they're coming to me at that Gen Z yeah generation. And so at the age that I get them, um it's kind of all hands on deck as far as the story goes. It's like yeah're we're we're not shying away from it.
00:13:47
Speaker
And so we're actually going through, funny you asked this question, we're going through a series right now called Not Just a Story. Right. And so we're taking the the foundational core Bible stories that the the kids have learned in the controlled environment as kids and And then as they're getting older, we're saying, okay, how do we directly apply this to our life? What are the heavy points of this? Because, you know, we talk about Cain and Abel.
00:14:09
Speaker
You know, we teach Cain and Abel to five and six-year-olds. That's murder, right? yeah yep And so now we get to really dive into what that actually means at this age and give them something to hold on to, you know?
00:14:20
Speaker
Not the murder, but you know. This is a little side note, a little trivia. Do you know who the greatest murderer in the history of the world was? The greatest? Uh-huh. There's a great murderer? No idea. It was King because he killed a third of the population. oh A little Bible humor there. Okay, so here we go.
00:14:38
Speaker
Did your wife tell you that joke? No, no. She would never take credit for that. So I want to throw some ideas excuse me some ideas at you about some things that I think the church can do better.
00:14:49
Speaker
And yeah just you can rapid fire just respond. What do you think that looks like? Especially for our church, because I know we've lot our people listening. but just for the church in general. First of all, ah creating space where people can have an honest conversation about the Bible.
00:15:04
Speaker
you know I can ask questions. I can have doubts. how How do you do that as a church? Yeah, so always room for improvement, but we, this is going to sound funny, we celebrate confession of sin.
00:15:15
Speaker
yeah And if someone tells me that they're struggling with pornography, um I get excited. i get i'm i'm i'm I'm genuinely like... ah praising them for coming forward with that information. right Because now that it's in the light, now we can deal with it. If they keep that in the dark, ah Satan has them in chains. yes And so we we, confession of sin, we make it very a space that's comfortable for people to come forward and confess sin so that they can bring those darknesses into the light.
00:15:45
Speaker
Other things are just being real about the Bible, being flat out open about it. So if it talks about sexual immorality, we talk about sexual immorality. And sometimes sending an email to a parents saying, hey, this is what we're going to be talking about in the next couple of weeks, just to give them a heads up. yep um But we want to be as real as possible with, especially the sixth grade to twelfth grade ages. Absolutely.
00:16:06
Speaker
And it's okay to say you don't have all the answers. Absolutely. okay say you don't have all the answers. Yep, yep. So speak to this one because I think it starts with the children specifically. intergeneratalal Intergenerational relationships. It's easy for you to say. Intergenerational relationships. How important are those for kids as they grow in their faith?
00:16:24
Speaker
Oh, they're vital. I mean, for them to be able to sit under... ah anybody older beside their parent, yeah they're going to listen to their parent, but they're always going to hear it a little bit different from somebody else. I mean, I'm pretty sure that my dad told me the same things that you were teaching me and youth group, but I just heard it different from you. Yeah, absolutely. So I think it's just, it's it's vital in your walk. You paid me to do that. Did
Shifting from Performance to Authentic Faith
00:16:44
Speaker
he? Sure. No, not. This is my mom. who um Yeah, so that's really cool. one of the things I love about our church is that we sometimes bring our youth and kids together. yeah So it's not just...
00:16:55
Speaker
um older people like me talking down to kids but it's the next generation in front of them. We have youth that are volunteering in the kids ministry which is super cool that they get to hear from these kids. And we have young adults that are volunteering in the life ministry. right We are truly an intergenerational church and I think that's an incredibly important thing we do and I love that y'all are both incorporating that into your ministries in different ways.
00:17:18
Speaker
ah Kyle, talk to me about this. Moving from a place of performance and how do we behave versus presence and having Jesus in our lives.
00:17:29
Speaker
Both are important, but I feel like we've gotten more towards one than the other. Yeah, for sure. i The church I grew up in was very performance oriented. i felt like I had to achieve all these things in order for God to love me or to be accepted as a good Christian or even to be a member of that church. i felt like I had to perform...
00:17:46
Speaker
And so breaking that down completely and flipping it around to say, God loves you no matter what. Now we're going to live for him. And so we we just encourage the the instruction of scripture. Yes. And to follow it. Yes. As obedience to the Lord. Right. Rather than we have to do it in order to achieve some type of love. Yeah.
00:18:10
Speaker
And something, again, that both of y'all are doing, and Lori, you can talk to this a little bit if you want to. um Both of y'all do a great job of teaching our kids where the Bible applies to real life.
00:18:22
Speaker
um And especially for Gen Z, this is something they love to see, that the Bible actually has answer for all the injustices they see in the world. yeah Adoption and fostering and care for immigrants and and all those different things.
00:18:36
Speaker
This is why they are so passionate and outraged about what they see going on in the world. And when they come to church, they don't want to hear stories that have no relation to that. yeah Now, children are a little young in it, but already I think it's important you start connecting the dots. The Bible is a real life book.
00:18:52
Speaker
Absolutely. It's not an old book. It's a timeless book. And the truths are always the same. Yeah. So how do you how do you teach that to a little kid? I mean, how do you begin to help them you know connect the dots on all that?
00:19:03
Speaker
Connect the dots on the the Word of God being true. Yes. I think they have to memorize it and then see it in us. Right. See it lived out. I think they have to see that the fruit of that lived out in their leaders' lives so they can believe it to know it's true. they begin put it in their lives. They begin to get it in their heart, and then you get to your age, you're starting to put it into application. Yes, sir. And so my goal in between the 6th and 12th grade year is to, one, show them how to apply it, but to two,
00:19:30
Speaker
ah separate their faith from their parents faith. Yeah. Because it's very easy when you grow up in the church that this is what we do. It's what grandma grandpa did. It's what mom and dad did. And that generational, ah the Bible talks about it, that the the faith of the fathers will pass down.
00:19:45
Speaker
But... there's a point where that person has to claim it for their own and knowing that they're going to stand before the Lord somewhere.
Empowering Gen Z to Lead and Spread Truth
00:19:52
Speaker
And so the whole goal is to get them to realize that before they get to college. Because when they go to college, they don't have mom and dad. They don't have grandma and grandpa.
00:19:59
Speaker
They don't have their church home. And then they make their own decisions. And so the goal is to get them to attach to their faith before they get out of the household. When our daughter recommitted her life to Christ, for a second it was like, wait, why are you doing this? You already did this when you were younger. But it was because it was her choice. And she finally really claimed her faith for her own.
00:20:17
Speaker
She was 16 when that happened. yeah So it was a really sweet moment as a parents. It was like, oh this is cool. like This is becoming her own faith. And this is this is what's going to carry her on. Yeah, ma'am. you know Okay, so let me kind of wrap this up with a couple of thoughts.
00:20:31
Speaker
um Number one, this generation, just like every other generation, there's no reason to write them off. Right. Because God has a purpose for them. No, both my kids are at Gen so please don't write them off. Write them off, no.
00:20:42
Speaker
And we we say this a lot around Grove Hill Church. As long as you've got breath and you know you have a purpose, because God's kept you alive for another day. And our goal as ministers, and even as just a...
00:20:53
Speaker
just truth telling Christians is to engage that truth, engage them with that truth so they can connect it to their lives absolutely and see where it has true real life application, their skin on this book. It's not just some fantasies and those kinds of things.
00:21:08
Speaker
Um, It's a fact, this is not just a statement, it's a fact of history that just about every great revival that's ever happened in history of the world started with young people.
00:21:18
Speaker
um The great awakenings here in the United States, some of the other events that have gone on through history, different revolutions in the church, those kinds of things. All the way back, I would argue, even to the very beginning of the church. We don't know exactly for sure what their ages were, but the original apostles were probably all under the age of, you know, at the most 25, 30 years old.
00:21:40
Speaker
um Maybe even younger than that. Maybe they're late teens. And these were guys who set in motion the greatest movement in the history of the and in the world. um So... I'm excited. I'm excited to see the numbers as the statistics come back. The surveys tell us things that are happening.
00:21:57
Speaker
But as churches, especially as our church, we have got to take advantage of this time. um but We've got to make sure that we're feeding the hunger of these kids as they're seeking God.
00:22:08
Speaker
They may not know it's God they're seeking, but we've got to help them connect again with that that passion inside them, that
Supporting Parents in Spiritual Guidance
00:22:14
Speaker
drive inside them. think a big thing is empowering them with the gospel because... they could have way more of an impact on their generation than I can have on their generation. absolutely absolutely And so my job is to equip this Generation Z with the the truth and almost pass that truth towards to them to say, hey, now go into your generation and spread the truth, right? Yes, I can speak truth to this generation and it's still received, absolutely.
00:22:40
Speaker
But someone in in their generation, in their culture, holding that that truth is far more impactful. yeah And I think that's part of what we're seeing in our culture today is that we're seeing a lot of kids suddenly get bold. yeah Teenagers and college students are stepping up and saying, you know what, I don't care what you guys think anymore because I know what truth is.
00:23:00
Speaker
and i'm feeling it and i think it's something important i want to underline what you just said there it's not just about giving them the answers it's about helping them to find the answers yeah to learn how to do that for themselves because you're not always going to be around right there's not always going to be a kyle or a lori standing there when the time comes and so when they're in that classroom or on that ball field or somebody's house spending the night and a problem comes forward then they know number one they've got the word hidden in their heart but number two they can go to the word and find the things that they need so great conversation uh i think the next generation is going to surprise us it's going to do some really cool stuff and so we keep praying for them we believe in them and that's why we commit so much time and energy dollars towards them Me too. We're kind of fond of them. The alphas are okay too. If you're out there today and you're looking for a place to connect, you've got kids and you're looking for answers, I mean, what parent isn't looking for answers, right? We would love to come alongside of you. It is our philosophy that you are the primary discipler of your kid.
00:24:00
Speaker
But we want to come alongside of you, help you engage that word for them and help them become more familiar with what God's answers are for their life problems. so Sunday morning, 8 o'clock, 9.30, 11. Come join us. We'd love to have you. And, of course, always like, follow, and share what we're we're doing here today.
00:24:17
Speaker
And we'll see you back here next week. Bye. Bye.