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Episode 26: Garrett Attends NJPW's G1 Special & Hoodslam
51 Plays7 years ago
Come hangout as the boys recap Garrett's trip to attend New Japan Pro Wrestling's G1 Special in San Francisco as well as Hoodslam! The boys also talk about the current controversy surrounding "Strong Style" following Hiromu Takahashi's accident as well as the state of pro wrestling as a whole.
It's your last week to enter our contest to win 2 tickets to All In! The entry deadline is July 17th! To enter leave a 5 star review on iTunes and send a screen cap of your review to predeterminedpodcast@gmail.com with the subject line "I Want All In"
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Transcript
Opening and Humorous Rumors
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Predetermined, a Pro Wrestling Hangout. I'm your host, Garrett Callender, and with me, as always, a man who, let's be honest, we can't prove that he didn't kill Joey Ryan. Derek helping. I swear to you, I would not kill Joey Ryan and rid the world of his wonderful dick. That's the thing I never thought I would say. I kept a man around because everyone loves his dick. This isn't the first time, though, that you could be accused of being a guy in a hoodie doing something wrong.
00:00:29
Speaker
No, I'm a nefarious character. But, you know, actually, I will say this. You would shit your pants if you tuned into one of the upcoming episodes of being the elite and you found out I was a part of the cast now. If you kept that a secret from me all this time, I would be. I don't want to say I'd be livid. I'd be jealous. I'd be proud of you.
00:00:49
Speaker
You'd be mad that I hadn't promoted the podcast on my appearances. I would understand, I guess. You know, you had to keep it secret. You got a pretty cool job. And yeah, I don't know if you heard this. Everybody, Derek's a new cast member. I'm being the elite. Well, the fucking wrestling show that you attended finally aired. And so now you can talk about that. Holy shit. Yeah, that's so weird. Well, hey, you know what we'll do before we talk about that? Head our goddamn music.
Contest Announcement: Win 'All In' Tickets
00:01:48
Speaker
Ah, thank you for tuning in to another lovely hangout with us. And before we get started, you know, we got one more thing to plug. This, my friends, is your last week to enter our contest to win two tickets.
00:02:05
Speaker
Two, count them two, to All In in Chicago September 1st. You aren't going to get any more warnings, any more heads up on this podcast. This is your last chance until we record next week. This is it man.
00:02:24
Speaker
Derek, if they win these tickets, just throw a couple names at them. Who are they gonna see at this event? The biggest indie wrestling show of all time. You are going to be seeing the MJF. You are going to be seeing Stephen Amell. You are going to be seeing the Young Bucks. You're gonna be seeing Cody. You're gonna be seeing Kenny Omega. You're gonna be seeing, well, you're not gonna be seeing Flip Gordon. You know that.
00:02:48
Speaker
Or will you be? I don't know. Only time will tell. Flip has another chance. You're gonna see the ghost of Joey Ryan. You're gonna see Hangman Page. You're gonna see Jay Lethal. Okada. This is gonna be great. You might even see us. You will see us because I'm gonna hand you the tickets.
00:03:05
Speaker
Man, this has been like a thing we've been doing for god, almost two months now. We've been plugging the shit out of this contest and here we are. This is your last warning. This is your last chance. If you want to try to win these two tickets to all in, on September 1st, here in my fucking city of Chicago, Illinois,
00:03:26
Speaker
Here's what you gotta do. Get on iTunes, find our podcast, leave us a rating, leave us a review, tell us what you like about the show, tell us your favorite episode. And before you click submit to submit your review, give a screenshot of that review and then submit it
00:03:45
Speaker
and send that screenshot to us. Email it to us at predeterminepodcastgmail.com with the subject line, I want all in and just make sure you include that screenshot proving to us that that was your review and voila, you have entered the competition and hey, this is it. No more chances.
00:04:08
Speaker
And just so you know, your odds are not bad to win these. Enter this goddamn contest, because I know you want these tickets, and this is going to be such an easy way for you to win them.
00:04:18
Speaker
You scratch our back with a review, we'll scratch yours with some tickets to the biggest indie wrestling show of all time. We know you want these. Good luck to everyone who has entered thus far. We will be doing the drawing for these in just a few days next Tuesday. And that will probably be the same day we end up recording our next episode. We will announce the winner
00:04:42
Speaker
online and in the episode and we'll have a video from what I understand is that what is that how we're doing this I'm gonna take a predetermined hat I'm gonna put all the names in the hat and I'm gonna pull one of those names out whoever's name is on that's that piece of paper you're gonna win you're gonna win that but all you got to do that's exciting leave us that review first I'm excited to give these away I'm excited for somebody who wasn't gonna go to all-in that's now gonna have two tickets
00:05:07
Speaker
to all in and a pre-determined to pro wrestling hangout hat.
Garrett's California Adventure
00:05:11
Speaker
You know what's funny? This podcast is called pre-determined, but the winner of this contest is not pre-determined. I have no idea. We don't know who it's gonna be. No clue. Not a clue. You know what? It fucking flipped Gordon might win the tickets and get into the show.
00:05:25
Speaker
Yeah, he may he may have entered. This may be his way in. He may think that my odds on this are way better than beating Nick Aldis for the NWA heavyweight championship. Which you know what? I'm going to go ahead and say Flip Gordon is not eligible because I don't want to piss off Cody and Starrcast. You can enter this if your name is not Flip Gordon.
00:05:44
Speaker
you don't want Cody giving you that death stare that he gave Flip Gordon at Joey Ryan's funeral? Well, Flip was very inappropriate and I think that he was in the right to get a stern look. Well, you know, we've got a lot of stuff to talk about on this week's episode and I think we really need to start with
00:06:06
Speaker
Kind of the big thing that happened over the weekend, you took a trip out west back to your favorite state, I'm assuming, of California. That is my favorite state and it was not the worst city I've ever been in. SCU! It was. It turns out though, I am the 100% the absolute worst person to travel alone.
00:06:31
Speaker
What's your problem? I am not interesting. I'm never gonna go out and do something cool by myself. I guess unless you count wrestling shows. Are you too afraid? Nah, I just have a thing where I just don't care that much. And I really need somebody else to pull me towards something that isn't professional wrestling.
00:06:49
Speaker
I saw that you just basically went and saw some movies. Oh yeah, my Airbnb, I have a couple issues with these people. They were pretty fussy. And by that, I mean, they had a lot of rules. I understand no shoes in the house, but they said if it's absolutely necessary that I have shoes, they left me shoe covers. And they also left me, they're like, you should wear these around our house too. They were the hospital socks with those rubber bottoms.
00:07:19
Speaker
Are you fucking kidding me? What did they think I was gonna do to their house? If they're that high maintenance about their living space, why are they putting that up on Airbnb? I have no idea. They seem nervous to have me there. We never met, by the way. They were at that house.
00:07:35
Speaker
I had a private room and a private entry to their home, so we never met. But they didn't let me check into their house until 6 p.m. I landed at 9 a.m. I was very, very tired. I had nowhere to go. I rented a car, so I had somewhere to put my suitcase. And I decided, well, where can I go take a nap? The movie theater. So what movie did I go see? The Whitney Houston documentary. Oh, boy. My plan was to sleep through that thing. And guess what happened?
00:08:04
Speaker
You liked it? I got fucking invested and I had to stand. You have probably walked out of movies that you were more excited about going in than you... I mean this is a unique situation. So you got in at 9am on what day? On Friday.
00:08:21
Speaker
And you just fucking killed time until you could go to your Airbnb? No, I didn't even get to go to the Airbnb because I couldn't check until 6, and then I had to be in Oakland for hood slam. So I never- I didn't see my Airbnb until about 1 in the morning.
00:08:35
Speaker
on Saturday. Yes. And then you were advised to put on hospital shoes. I did not put on the hospital shoes. Don't tell them I didn't wear the shoes around their house. They had a great Japanese toilet. You know it warms your cheeks while you're sitting on it. It was wonderful. So I don't know if I like that. Oh trust me. It's a thing you don't know you want until you have it.
00:08:58
Speaker
I don't know. I'm pretty grossed out when I sit on a toilet and it's already warm. Yeah. But when you find out it's not warm because of another man's cheeks or ladies cheeks, is there a certain, I don't, I think it doesn't matter whose cheeks it is. You don't want butts on you. We talk about anything on this podcast. It's not just wrestling. Well, this is really delve into the hard hitting issues. Hey, this is all lead up to me getting to hood slam. I know it's taken a minute to get there, but you know, you're right. You're on this trip with me right now.
00:09:26
Speaker
So I don't know a goddamn thing about Hoodslam. I don't know who you saw there. I don't know what happened. So how does this go? Like you're obviously you didn't get a chance to rest. You're probably shot out of your mind. You're tired. Oh, what are you walking into? And you're in Oakland. You're not in San Francisco at this point.
00:09:46
Speaker
Yeah, I had so I have this rental car and I need to pick up my friend from the airport She was gonna be in town for the weekend. She said she would attend her first wrestling show with me So she was going to attend this with me So I crossed the bridge to Sausalito ate it one of my favorite restaurants in the world It's called fish if you ever in the area eat there. It's fantastic. Then I called fish just called fish with a period
00:10:09
Speaker
Huh, it's fancy seafood. It seems like the kind of the name you would see on like an abandoned restaurant out in the middle of nowhere. Like that's the best they could come up with. Actually, it does remind me a little bit of in California, there was a place I think it's called like the Blue Star Cafe. I went to go see the band Proto Men. It was in a terrible neighborhood. The only place like the only way I could describe this neighborhood is it was like it was the scrap metal district.
00:10:35
Speaker
of town, it was the scariest place. And I parked in front of a building that the title of the business was, a business corporation. What? That's a front for something. Yeah, it did just as well set a mafia front. But trust me, fish, if it's a mafia front, they sell you some delicious fish tacos.
00:10:57
Speaker
So drive 90 minutes to Hoodslam. On the way there, I passed San Quentin Penitentiary that I've seen so- To get you in the mood. Oh, that got me real in the mood, because how many drunken nights have you spent watching MSNBC, watching Lock Up? Not me. Oh, man, in college, that was my jam.
00:11:16
Speaker
So I get to hood slam. I'm expecting to actually be in the hood. That's what I'd always heard. And I thought that's what Oakland was. Turns out it was in a very gentrified neighborhood. So curveball, like where was this being held at? The place was called the Oakland Metro Opera House.
00:11:36
Speaker
OK, don't don't get too excited. It's not as fancy as I'm not like from the front. I'm like, I guess it's an opera house. You walk in. It's a warehouse. It's a warehouse. I asked some people what other kind of stuff they have in this venue. They said normally they have concerts and like performance art happening in this space.
00:11:54
Speaker
But it's not the back of a Foreman Mills. Oh, absolutely not. I mean, there are bougie bars all around this fucking thing. And before it starts, this square that is on is called Jack London Square. And I looked at a little map, saw that his cabin that he wrote Call of the Wild in was just down the street. So you better believe I did a little sightseeing.
00:12:14
Speaker
It's fine. That is what you got you to go out and do some sightseeing. You couldn't do that on your own. You had to go see the Whitney Houston film and then then go see Jack London's fucking cabin.
00:12:26
Speaker
Yeah. We're 12 minutes into this podcast and you have not heard anything about wrestling yet. We're getting there. We're getting there. It's like he's almost in the door. He's almost there. So we get into the show. As you walk into this venue, they did do a pat down, which was nice. I appreciate a good pat down. I like a little rub. Did they touch your butt?
00:12:51
Speaker
uh nah they were nice they weren't like the pwg pat down guy who's just gonna grab your junk as hard as he can just to see how tough you are it's initiation uh that guy left he's no he's no longer there but i hope it's because he was truly molesting hundreds of people a night
00:13:10
Speaker
Like it came up and they were like, wait, we never asked him to do that. Like for all I know, that fucker didn't even work there. Like it was it was an old man who would just he would reach into every crevices next to your taint.
00:13:22
Speaker
Like, you know, where your legs meet. It's just he's getting in there. But what if he had been there? What if this was his new job at Hoodslam? I would have cried. There was the guy that runs the door at PWG. There was a time that I'm like, oh, God, the old man's here today. I hope I don't get him. And then the guy turns and looks at me and said, you don't want him? Go to him. And I was like, God damn it. And then you have to stand there and get. It's weird because he knows you don't want to go over there because he's molesting everybody. But, you know, it's the price to play the game.
00:13:53
Speaker
Alright, into the present, we're at Hoodslam, you're walking in. Goddamn. Sorry, this is a long story. So yeah, we get into Hoodslam, there's this little bar area in the front, all the wrestlers have their shit set up. Joey Ryan, we have Brian Cage, Leva Bates, Blue Pants is standing there. So I go talk to Joey Ryan, I buy one of his little wrestling buddies that our buddy Corey Goodman makes.
00:14:16
Speaker
Corey, Corey, super fun,
Hoodslam Wrestling Highlights
00:14:18
Speaker
yeah, yeah, rocket ship, which I believe you hear him every week on Colt Cabana's podcast, some of their music. Yeah, it's crazy how Corey has infiltrated the wrestling world, isn't it? It is, and now he's on ours. Yeah. I'm looking at his Joey Ryan doll right now. Yeah. But I asked Joey for a picture, and his response was, I mean, you can try. And at first, I thought he was meaning because where we were was kind of dark, but then he follows that up with, you know, because I'm a ghost.
00:14:46
Speaker
Ahhhh. Did he say boo? Did he make any other ghost references? That was the only ghost reference but I got my friend Steph in the picture with me and I'm doing it selfie wise and she didn't notice until I held the camera up and we were looking straight into it that he wasn't wearing pants.
00:15:02
Speaker
Really? He just had on, he had on a t-shirt and then, you know, the Speedos. Gotcha. So she noticed as I was taking it and just noticed like, oh, the King of Dong style is present. But we walked- So he was super friendly. This isn't your first time meeting him, is it? Oh no, I've met Joey at PWG and like other indie shows and stuff. He's super nice guy. But we walk into this venue. So you walk past the bar, you go into this back room and it's a big warehouse.
00:15:31
Speaker
There's a ring pushed up against a stage, there's no seating. And the room, I'm already like, alright, I'm smelling weed. It's gonna be a party in here. You round the corner, a lot of people smoking weed. A lot of people. And I didn't realize to the extent, the amount of weed that was going to be at Hood Slam.
00:15:50
Speaker
Was it like a Grateful Dead concert? It was like a fucking Grateful Dead concert in there. Let's see, the wrestlers come to the ring smoking weed. The referees are holding a joint as they ref the match and are consistently taking hits off those joints.
00:16:09
Speaker
I got a lot of shit on Twitter because I posted, it was the first match of the night and a guy walked out and it looked like he had a cigarette. And I posted, the ref walked to the ring, his name's Nuck Nuck, really liked him, he was a cool guy with suspenders that said Nuck Nuck, had a real sweet flat top, smoking a joint. I thought he was coming to the ring, smoking a cig, looking cool. The internet really roasted me for thinking it was a cigarette.
00:16:35
Speaker
Did you cause some damage to our podcast reputation with this? I think I did. I think they don't think I'm cool. I think they don't think I know the difference.
00:16:46
Speaker
So it was basically the opposite of your situation at WrestleMania where you got the awesome video of Joey Ryan and it blew up her podcast. Basically, you posted something about a guy with a cigarette and everyone's just leaning into you because it's a fucking joint and you didn't know the difference. Absolutely. And I'm like, hey, I'm sorry. And then everybody's like, yeah, a cigarette. And then somebody actually, I believe, said, oh, honey.
00:17:09
Speaker
Oh yeah, I saw that. Yeah, that's a real shot at my masculinity there. He attacked it. Your masculinity, your intelligence, butt you're off and rolling, there's pot being smoked. Everywhere, like everywhere. There is a tag team in this, Derek, called the Stoner Brothers.
00:17:28
Speaker
That makes sense. They looked and were dressed like Rick and Scott. And their names were Scott Rick and Rick Scott. God damn it. And they were they were stoned, they were smoking weed during it. This show is... Did they do a Frankenstoner? God damn it. I don't... honest to God it's hard to remember because they were hotboxing a warehouse.
00:17:52
Speaker
Right. I mean, even if you're not smoking weed, you're smoking weed in this building. There's no way that you're not just taking all of it into your lungs. Great first wrestling show for your friend, too, by the way. Oh, if she thinks this is what pro wrestling is forever, then she is going to be in for a weird surprise when she ever attends anything else.
00:18:13
Speaker
But there was a wall of couches, and we went and stood on the couch so we could see above, because there's no seating, you're just looking over heads. And... A wall of couches? Yeah, they just had a line of couches down one of the walls. So we went and stood on the couch. So we could see above. Was it like a junkie? What the fuck does this mean? A wall of couches? There was just a line of, it was like a sofa bench.
00:18:40
Speaker
I mean it was this room the room is fucking huge like it is a big warehouse room if I had to guess how many people by the time the second match was going there were probably 1500 people in this room Jesus like this place fucking filled up fast it was and they're pouring like the guy who's the announcer do you remember when the rock had that rock the promo contest
00:19:04
Speaker
I don't. It was a couple months ago on Twitter. He had a thing where people could cut promos and they could win a belt and like a chance to meet The Rock and stuff. I didn't realize the guy who is the lead commentator who runs these shows is the guy who actually won that contest.
00:19:18
Speaker
Wow. And his name is Broseph, Joe Broseph, or Joey, Joseph, a Broseph Joe Brody is his name. And his thing is he's like, he's a bro. He's a douchey bro. Came out in the American flag. He was holding a bottle of Jack and he is just going around pouring shots of Jack into everybody's mouths. This show, my friend, is a party.
00:19:42
Speaker
Like, what would you be more concerned about getting busted? A GCW show or a Hoodslam show? I think every- I mean, it's California, weed's legal. Right. But, like, can you just serve booze to random strangers like that? It's very strictly 21 and up. Okay.
00:19:57
Speaker
So they checked IDs, man. They weren't pouring booze in kids' mouths. This show was pretty wild. And they had a house band. There was a band performing on the stage, so the people who were hood slam regulars had live entrance music.
00:20:15
Speaker
That's pretty rad. I will go ahead and tell you, for $20, I had a very, very good time. I think it's 100% worth your while to go. It's so weird to follow it with New Japan, which is just this high level matches with excellent storytelling, and this is more along the lines of a comedy show.
00:20:38
Speaker
Like at one point, Ryu from Street Fighter came out and cut a promo on Ken. And then Ken came out and they just started fighting. And the commentator on this show is actually going over the PA system. So you're hearing live commentary as the night goes on. He goes, there's no ref and this isn't even a match. And they were just beating the shit out of each other, not a match. They left. They ended up fighting through the crowd and out the door into the street and then disappeared.
00:21:08
Speaker
and then a couple matches later, they came out the back curtain still fighting and ended up in the ring again. Was it over? It was over and next month they're gonna have a real match to determine who is better, Ken or Ryu. How did your friend have a good time? I think she had a blast. I think she really enjoyed getting to see Joey do the dick flip. What else did we see? I think she was just impressed with how huge Brian Cage is.
00:21:37
Speaker
Let's see. I'm trying to think what else oh, this was probably the highlight of the night for me. I'm a big it's always sunny in Philadelphia fan And there's an episode where they create a team called the birds of war and they're dressed like really shitty looking Eagles Leyva Bates and two other guys came out as the birds of war and sang the song that the birds of war sang and it's always sunny feathers were flying for the whole match and
00:22:02
Speaker
But I do think this, I kind of got the same thing that happened at Joey Janela's Spring Break 2 here, where I was so tired that I kind of hit my threshold for nonsense wrestling. Like you were just done. There was a certain point where I was just like, all right. I left before the two main events. Because I'd already been there from, well, I think the thing started at 8.30. I walked out around somewhere between 11.30 and midnight.
00:22:29
Speaker
So you stuck it out for a few hours and then you were done. Yeah, but it was just, you know, weed isn't really a party drug. Makes you kind of sleepy. And when you're already tired and just spent three hours inhaling all the weed, you know, you're baked. You're done. You're done. Like you're ready for a nap. You're ready for some In-N-Out and a nap. You're ready to go to your very sterile Airbnb.
00:22:55
Speaker
Yeah, which I was already like oh my god. They're gonna be so mad at the way I smell in their house right now They're gonna think I was just if they asked where I was I'd be like well I It smells like I was inside of a bag of marijuana
00:23:11
Speaker
But you said you didn't bump into him, so this wasn't an issue. No, it was not an issue. I haven't seen the bill yet, though, so maybe they charged me extra for something. But I will say, had a great time at Hoodslam. If you're in the Oakland area, it's 20 bucks. You are absolutely going to get your money's worth for $20.
00:23:28
Speaker
And this was only night one of your adventure. You had a couple days there.
New Japan Wrestling Experience
00:23:31
Speaker
So let's just skip everything and get to the thing we want to talk about. We're 24 minutes in. That was too long of a story. Let's go. G1. G1. It was a bucket list item for me to go to a wrestling show at the Cow Palace. So when this got announced that New Japan is doing their first big show in the United States or the biggest they've done so far at the Cow Palace, I knew I had to be there.
00:23:54
Speaker
And it was a very cool venue. It's really cool, like pulling up and just seeing it and knowing all the history, you know, everything that's happened inside of that building. Right. Talk to me about the venue some more, like how did it compare to other things you've been to? It's not a huge arena. It's it is a fairly small arena. It's really just, you know, the floor and then like a hundred level seating.
00:24:19
Speaker
So it's not huge. I think I heard it holds about 10,000. I believe they ended up having between five and six in attendance. Really? So it wasn't sold out by any means, but this is still the most tickets they've ever sold at a New Japan show in the United States.
00:24:36
Speaker
Well, and I think a lot of people are getting down on him about that like saying like well They didn't sell it out. Well, it's you know, they're building they they sold more than they did last time So it's my question. Here's my question to you though in response before you get into the show Why why would a new Japan show? Struggle to fill an arena like that, but all in had no problem. Like what's what's the difference? I
00:25:01
Speaker
Um, maybe there's a bigger wrestling community in Los Angeles. Maybe people were burnt out because they had just been to a New Japan show there, what, just a few months ago. So, because before, they had a show in Long Beach, and then they came back about a year later. This time it was only a few months ago too. So I don't know, maybe that had something to do with it, or maybe it has to do with San Francisco's just a really expensive city, and it's not the most affordable place to be able to go attend something.
00:25:31
Speaker
Okay. So what were you looking forward to? I mean, this is such a novelty question. Which match were you looking forward to most going in? And I guess we'll eventually talk about what you kind of walked away with thinking was the best match of the night. So I walked in with the match I was most looking forward to being Dragonly versus Takahashi.
00:25:52
Speaker
There's a story there. Oh boy. Oh boy. Is there a story? That's to talk about that is like at this point, you know these past just a couple months I mean he's been great for a while, but he really grabbed my attention these past couple months I feel sure Takahashi is he kind of I mean he was easily on his way to becoming the man. I
00:26:12
Speaker
Yeah, I mean you could argue he already is he has the junior heavyweight championship Well, do we need to talk about it? And do we have to talk about it in a way that implies that he's done? I don't think so. Okay, so do you want to go ahead and just tell the people what happened?
00:26:26
Speaker
Well, I think everyone probably, anyone who's listening to this podcast right now probably knows that he apparently what broke his neck is the last thing I heard. So that's all we really knew. I guess today New Japan finally announced. I saw an announcement that said his neck isn't broken, but he is injured.
00:26:44
Speaker
All right. I mean, I'm still waiting to hear because so there's a point in this when I believe it's called a dragon driver is what they were calling it, where he's basically tucked up in the powerbomb position or not powerbomb. Like if you were going to do a cannonball into a pool and had your legs tucked up, they were basically belly to belly with Dragon Lee and Dragon Lee is going to flip him backwards over his head. Right. There just wasn't enough of a rotation. He just landed flat on his goddamn head.
00:27:12
Speaker
Yeah, basically just the back of his neck like like his chin tucked in landing directly on the back of the neck and it was ugly. And the thing that I think sucked is that so many of the spots building up to that moment were so much more dangerous.
00:27:28
Speaker
Well, they were German suplexes directly to the back of the neck too. They both took a beating because these are guys that have a history together and they're known for putting on these crazy matches. So I understand why they booked these two because they're like, you know what, this is a big live televised event in the United States. We're trying to make them. Let's put these two out there to do what they do best.
00:27:51
Speaker
I don't think there's anything to be said about the thought process booking those two guys together if they have history together and this is supposed to be Takahashi's first big defense of the light heavyweight championship.
00:28:07
Speaker
I mean it's what everyone's been talking about the last few days and you were there for it live what just a couple rows away so I mean give me your input. I was 10 feet from him you know when his head smashed straight into the the mat and I mean we everyone around me cringed at the same time like we were at an angle to see that this is disgusting that this happened to him like he has to be broken.
00:28:30
Speaker
And knowing that he got up and continued with possibly a broken neck, we don't really know, I guess. I mean, I guess not if New Japan says no, but he was certainly dazed. Were you, was everyone aware that there was a problem immediately? Takahashi typically moves pretty quick. So when we started to see that his style, like he was slowing down,
00:28:53
Speaker
And I think that was a little concerning, but it also really grossed all of us out when Dragon Lee grabbed him by the hair to pick him up immediately after this happened to his neck. Because if there were any issues, I mean, you could literally paralyze somebody if they weren't already. Just by the way, you're handling like a damaged neck and going back and watching this match. I don't know. I was trying to decide. I mean, there's definitely things in it they do that are you could easily consider to be reckless.
00:29:23
Speaker
but isn't that part of the fun of Takahashi? That's kind of who he is. He's a guy who's always gonna sacrifice his body for a thing right now. Well, so now the big, after this match, the big conversation, the big debate that's happening on social media and between wrestlers and between wrestlers and fans is, is this style of wrestling, is it, what's the word I'm looking for?
00:29:50
Speaker
Obviously, it's not safe. It's pro wrestling. It's not fucking ballet like they always say. But is it something that can be feasible to do on a regular basis? And there's people who are dead set against it. There's people who say that this kind of stuff happens once in a blue moon and it's not enough to justify shutting that style down completely. I saw Disco Inferno win after it again. What did he say? I didn't see that.
00:30:18
Speaker
I think he just kinda reiterated his point that he'd gotten into it with Cody about this style is how guys are gonna get hurt and they're not wrestling smart, they're wrestling recklessly. And I think I saw something like an interview with Jericho where he was saying, since he's been working over at New Japan, he's been trying to convince more of these guys that you don't have to give your body.
00:30:41
Speaker
every single night, you don't have to do all these dangerous stuff. You can have a good match without getting dropped on the back of your head and on the back of your neck and getting contorted in all these different ways or hitting somebody as hard as you fucking can. Like, I don't know. It's it's it's been one of the things since I've tried to follow the New Japan scene a little bit more and Ring of Honor a little bit more. It's it's a different it's a different style difference.
00:31:09
Speaker
than I'm used to with WWE, which is traditionally a lot safer. Visually, it may not be as satisfying, but it's one of the things that Miz got criticized for for a long time, was wrestling in a safer style. And I think people like how satisfying it is to see this heart-hitting New Japan action. I agree that it is more dangerous
00:31:32
Speaker
but you don't hear about people getting super injured there a lot, very often, you know? Like you had a Shabbatah who had to retire or I believe he retired because of too many like shoot head butts.
00:31:46
Speaker
Well, what's their schedule like in comparison to like a WWE schedule where they work, you know, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and then either Monday or Tuesday, depending upon which brand you're on? Well, I think coming up, their schedule is going to be pretty challenging just because they have the G1 going on. And that's a very long tournament that's, you know, everybody's fighting multiple matches because it's not like you lose, you're out. It's a points based tournament.
00:32:10
Speaker
So you get a certain amount of points for winning and move on and i believe that one actually goes quite a few nights in a row that starts this friday. But i mean typically like throughout the calendar year what's the i mean is this something they do. Three or four nights a week.
00:32:29
Speaker
No, I don't think they're doing it that often, but they also have a bigger roster where they can have different shows where this show's gonna be the smaller guys or some of the up and coming guys. It's not like Okada's out there doing these crazy things every single night.
00:32:49
Speaker
Well, if you want, what we can do is we can come back to this issue a little bit later because I have some stuff that I wanted to touch on. But if you want to go over a couple of the other matches on the card rather than just focus on this one, do you want to talk about Juice Robinson? That's absolutely where I want to go next with this. Go with it. That. OK, one thing that this show made me realize is New Japan doesn't have a lot of true heels.
00:33:13
Speaker
And I say that because the crowd was so hot for everybody. But is it a thing where you're excited just because they're here? Probably. Yeah, I think it is. I think the biggest pop of the night, honestly, was probably Nido.
00:33:33
Speaker
From what I was reading, LIJ was super over. The crowd loved LIJ. I mean, during that the Bucks LIJ match, I wasn't expecting the crowd to be split since the Bucks are from California. I was kind of thinking like, OK, you know, we're in Bucks country. This is going to be their show. But the crowd was divided. And actually, before it started, it was all LIJ chants.
00:33:55
Speaker
I bet that was pretty cool just to see how much recognition they were getting, like everyone on the roster was getting as opposed to just like the people that are popular. I mean, I guess not popular is the right word, but just like the most well-known people on the indie scene right now. Yeah, it wasn't just like only the top guys are getting cheered. I mean, people are still cheering for, you know, people clearly knew who like Suzuki was and Ishii and you just
00:34:19
Speaker
Everybody coming out. I mean it was just it was a really hot crowd of people that were very excited But I do think it was a lot of people that had traveled from all over to come to this So I think you were transitioning you were getting ready to talk about Jay White. Oh, yes, Jay White comes out so many booze honestly the only person that came out to booze all night and I've never been a Jay White fan. I don't know what it is about him. Maybe by the end of this I realized maybe I don't like him because I've been getting worked
00:34:48
Speaker
which happens occasionally which does lay in as this match was going on I feel by the end of it I said this is easily the most I've ever enjoyed watching Jay White well it was a good match that helps oh and juice was so over everybody loved juice the pride
00:35:07
Speaker
of Joliet, Illinois. Ah, just like the Blues Brothers. Joliet, Jake. He came out dressed like Kyrie Sane, the pirate princess. Yeah, I mean, fucking dreads were popping the red, white, and blue. And the stipulation to the match was if he broke his hand in his last match, and the stipulation was if he used the cast, he would be disqualified.
00:35:34
Speaker
I thought one of my favorite moments in the match is towards the end where Jay White got the low blow in and you think it's going to end up helping him out to help him retain his title and then Juice Robinson comes right back and uses the fucking cast. Oh, that to even the score.
00:35:55
Speaker
There were so many people around me. I mean, it's all adults. I didn't really see any children at this show. And just every adult is on their feet screaming in that moment to all of us. Everything that was happening was real.
00:36:09
Speaker
Isn't that an awesome moment at a wrestling show where it stops being a thing that you like, criticize or try to play along with or guess along with and you're just sucked into the moment? It's the absolute best. I mean, it is like, in that moment, you are living a comic book.
00:36:28
Speaker
Yeah. And everybody was just 100% marking out during that. And I was sitting about five feet from JR. I was pretty close to everything when this happened. The guardrails at this show weren't really attached to anything. Yeah, it looked like they were moving pretty easily. They were just sitting there.
00:36:51
Speaker
But I will say there's a spot in it where they get outside the ring and Jay White suplexes juice into the guardrail directly in front of commentary. When he did that, JR flipped over backwards out of his seat. And at first I thought, well, I guess that's supposed to happen. And then it seemed like Josh Barnett gets out and chases Jay White around the ring, which I'm now hearing was not a work.
00:37:21
Speaker
Really? Yeah. Did you read anything that JR said about this moment? Well, all I saw was that JR might have broken some ribs. He said he did break ribs. And that he's in a lot of pain and he couldn't sleep that night. And he said the one thing he told to the New Japan officials was, keep him away from commentary. Because he said, I know these guys go out in the audience and stuff and he's like, there's no need for them to be over near me.
00:37:46
Speaker
OK. And rewatching it, I don't know how he fell out of his seat because the guardrail didn't hit the table so hard that it threw him. I think that he flinched and fell over backwards. So what's coming of the story right now? It seems I mean, if you watched it, did you listen to J.R. talk about it on commentary as the match was going? Not really. He was pissed.
00:38:14
Speaker
So he was fuming about it the rest of the show? Oh yeah, and already JR, a lot of people don't like JR on New Japan commentary because it doesn't really feel like he enjoys the product that much.
00:38:26
Speaker
Like he's just showing up for work because they're paying him. Exactly. That's kind of the vibe I get from it because there'll be moments like where he OK, when Takahashi is coming out, he's holding Daryl Jr. Yeah. And he's saying all this stuff about Daryl Jr. And then Josh Barnett, who's the other commentator, says something more about it. And J.R. goes, I read my copy on Daryl and that's all I'm saying about it.
00:38:52
Speaker
Like you could tell that he thinks that's annoying, that the crowd loves this stuffed animal so much and he didn't want to have to discuss it. But I also couldn't, I noticed throughout the show that he doesn't really know everybody's finishers. So he'll just say, like a guy will hit his finisher and he'll just be like, and he's down. Yeah. Or there'll be moments where he really has a lot of trouble with logic.
00:39:16
Speaker
like the logic of things. I feel like in indie wrestling, like a lot of it is just put on a great show, you know? And just get out of the ring, like get close to the people, get in the middle of the crowd, brawl, do some exciting shit. But the whole time he's like, I don't even know why they're outside the ring right now, they can't win. And then he would say things like, why isn't the ref counting? They've been outside of the ring for at least 60 seconds.
00:39:39
Speaker
I guess that's fair. It's like if you were watching a movie and the guy next to you is pointing out the plot holes. Not a great way to present the product because that's your job, right? His job is to make you excited about it, not sit there and point out plot holes. So I have a little bit of a problem with him because of that.
00:40:00
Speaker
and during that match after he got flipped you could tell he already was annoyed with things in the show now all bets were off on what he was gonna say like they were swearing on commentary after that at one point JR's like I've about had it with this shit
00:40:16
Speaker
And he was he was pissed. He was he was not happy. And another way that I could tell this was not really a work when they threw him into that a whole bunch of electronics went everywhere, including the thing that was, you know, used to to help with their audio. Everything came unplugged and I was watching crew members like scramble trying to plug shit in and get everything put back.
00:40:38
Speaker
Didn't seem to affect anything though, really, did it? It didn't seem like it, other than Josh Barnett's headset stopped working at one point. They did a couple spots off, they did a lot of spots on the apron. And I popped it at a, I think there was like a Russian leg sweep off the apron out to the outside. And that was after they were teasing that he was going to give him a German off the apron.
00:41:00
Speaker
Yep. And at one point, JR's like, well, anything could happen, I guess. Just bitter, bitter old guy, JR. But of all the matches of the night, that is the one the crowd was the hottest for. And you have a new United States champion? Oh, yeah. New United States champion, Juice Robinson. Good to see a guy who got booted from WWE go somewhere else and make it big. And first person who's actually from the United States to actually hold the title.
00:41:30
Speaker
That's true, it was a Canadian and then a New Zealander. Yep. So we got to see the United States title switch hands in America. Which I think a lot of people were complaining that this looked like it was going to be a house show. And I think they went above and beyond and delivered far greater than just a normal house show.
00:41:51
Speaker
Well, that's a great segue to talk about the main event, dude. Yeah, main event, Cody Rhodes versus Kenny Omega. And I think a lot of people were kind of down on this because they felt like we just saw this a couple months ago. Why do we need it again? Yeah, but it clearly needed to happen again. Oh, and they're doing a good job of telling the story. And I mean, if anyone's saying that, like, we just watched Nakamura and AJ Styles fight like six times in like three months. And one more time later tonight. Yeah, tonight. After.
00:42:20
Speaker
after we're done recording this. But I thought that one was very good too. I thought they did a really good job telling a story. They both looked like they wanted to kill each other. The Bucks were out there doing a good job of trying to separate everything. And this match ended up being a lot more violent than I would have expected.
00:42:40
Speaker
Well, that's one thing we definitely have to talk about. There were just there were several spots in there that were brutal. I think obviously the latter spot, which was scary, which was scary as shit for the setup. Because in this show, you really have no idea what's going to happen. I mean, in New Japan, at any moment, you feel like somebody could take the craziest thing you've ever seen. For sure.
00:43:03
Speaker
And also there the fucking spot where Kenny power bombs Cody out of the ring and onto the table and the table doesn't break. And Cody kind of just it's like it's like he bypassed the table. He hit it. But it was like it didn't affect anything. And he just went straight to the floor. It was like he were Joe. He was actually Joey Ryan and just floated through it.
00:43:23
Speaker
He was a ghost. It was brutal. And yeah, what happened? Did you see it was the leg bent on the table? Yeah. So it didn't break. It just sent him straight to the floor. And we saw the replay of that. I mean, everybody there thought he was hurt. Yeah, I thought he was watching. I mean, I knew the outcome, but. And then what else do we have? We had he we had Kenny jump off of the guardrail to give him a coup de gras through the table.
00:43:50
Speaker
Yep, that was towards the beginning of the match too. Oh, and there was that moment when Cody throws Kenny into that guard rail that isn't attached to shit, and the guard rail just smashes a new Japan official in the kneecaps.
00:44:04
Speaker
like I didn't notice it the night of but last night when I rewatched it just seeing that guy's face you could tell like his knees hurt and he was rubbing his knees so hard like maybe he shattered his kneecaps so do you feel like Kenny did a good job of elevating Cody in this match to make him seem like a legitimate because there were there were opportunities were like the spot where Cody had the IWGP championship
00:44:29
Speaker
And he was considering using it on Kenny and he didn't. And he just opted to go back to wrestling him. And the Bucks pulled the ladder out of the ring and they finished the match. And they took the belt away from Cody when he was gonna whip. The Bucks really tried to keep order in a match that red shoes had no control of.
00:44:46
Speaker
Right. They just as well have been the reps of that one. Was the live crowd hot for this? Oh, the crowd was having a great time. I mean, I think it's one of those things that at this point, I feel like we've all been to enough WWE shows that there's not a lot of wrestlers that it's exciting to see them every single time.
00:45:06
Speaker
Sure, and that could be because you know we get a little spoiled with how many times they come through a town I mean those dudes are wrestling all the time so between house shows pay-per-views watching them on TV. It's just I'm not saying I'm burnt out on them. I'm just saying you're inundated I've seen Seth Rollins wrestle so many times that it's cool when he comes out But like when you get a chance to see Kenny Omega in person It feels like you're witnessing something special
00:45:32
Speaker
And you did. And we did. Saw his first title defense in the Cow Palace. And at the end of it, I thought he gave a really nice speech about, you know, forgiveness and giving people a second chance. And I guess everybody right now probably knows how the show ended. Oh, yeah, we're going and we're back into Marvel Zone. We're going into a civil war.
00:45:55
Speaker
and not the Civil War that we thought. No, we are going the exact opposite direction. So I mean, this is an example of we're kind of getting what we want, but we're also getting a really good story that's, you know, just immediately got set up.
00:46:10
Speaker
And a good chunk of the Bullet Club that has been fighting over the last few months, they're back together again. Yeah. And seeing Cody Ro- Okay, so for anyone who didn't watch, uh, spoiler, spoiler, spoilers, but the, uh, Gorillas of Destiny came out so bad, uh, actually everyone but Bad Luck Falle. So it was Tomatanga, Tonga Loa, and Haku. And Haku was throwing throat shots, my friend. He was giving them to everybody.
00:46:37
Speaker
Yeah, they fucked everybody up. So it was pretty cool to see Haku wrestle again. And then speaking of being the elite, the new episode, just seeing all of them silently eating Carl's Jr. in a hotel room in silence. And then Cody just says, what the hell was with Haku? What's Haku's problem? What's his problem? And then hearing Hangman Page say, he's a piece of shit.
00:47:03
Speaker
I think they did such a good job of coming full circle with this where they're back together now and it makes sense. I really loved how they staggered the run-ins with Hangman and then Marty and then eventually Cody. Where I could see this heading eventually is I could see this being them fighting for who gets the name the Bullet Club.
00:47:26
Speaker
Sure. And I wouldn't be mad if it went with the Gorillaz of Destiny, or the Firing Squad, or whatever they're gonna call themselves now. They're still saying that they're Bullet Club, but they gave themselves a specialized name. Man, I don't know, they did a really good job of making you like Cody again at the end of this show. Immediately, the crowd popped so hard when Cody Rhodes had a face turn.
00:47:52
Speaker
Yeah. And I think we were all just excited to see them hug and be friends again. And it just it was a really feel good moment even after they got their asses beat. Because they were united again. Oh, man, it was just a really good storytelling, man. It was just a really solid show where a lot happened. Like a lot. So much happened in one night to progress these stories.
00:48:19
Speaker
And so you had an awesome trip to San Francisco. It was absolutely worth it. I was, there were parts where I was, because I had originally gotten a second ticket and no one was going to go with me. So I started regretting it where I was like, oh, this isn't going to be fun by myself. I ran into fucking people that I met in Tokyo.
00:48:37
Speaker
So the guy who ended up buying my ticket was a little old man probably in his 70s and He had a really nice camera He didn't say three words the whole show and then with the final three matches left just looks over at me and goes Alright, I gotta go now. Thanks and leaves
00:48:56
Speaker
So then I really for real wasn't there for the last three matches So I spotted my buddy shod who I met in Tokyo and I motion formed to come sit with me So then I had a somebody I knew sitting with me the rest of the show You had you had a buddy with you for the prime part of the show Yeah for you know the I feel like I mean everything before those three matches was great as well But that's just those final three
00:49:20
Speaker
were so good. I mean, the Takahashi match was a great match leading up to kind of a bad finish that just didn't end as crazy as the first 20 minutes. Right. But overall, I ended up having a great time. I had no regrets on attending that show. That was I'm going to be happy that because I feel like this is just going to grow more and more and I'm going to be happy knowing, you know, just knowing that I saw that at the Cow Palace.
00:49:46
Speaker
Well, you checked another venue off the bucket list. It's off there. I don't know what else is next. I don't know what other venues. I mean, Tokyo Dome, Cow Palace, the one in Chicago. Really, I've checked off some big ones. What's, yeah, I don't know what's left, man. ECW Arena, the original. That'd actually be pretty cool.
00:50:08
Speaker
So you go on this trip, I get some messages from you, get some texts where you're talking to me about, you're in a, tell our listeners, you're like in a group chain right now and there's a discussion going on about, what is it, indie wrestling that they're critiquing or what's the story here? Well, I mean, we talked about this a little bit earlier. It seems like right now,
00:50:31
Speaker
this type of wrestling is really dividing fans and a lot of people are starting to question whether or not strong style is too dangerous and it seemed like they were kind of in this text thread talking about how there's no need to work that dangerous and they one of the guys in the thread went so far as to say a five-star match has never drawn a dime
Impact of Five-Star Matches
00:50:57
Speaker
And immediately as a fan of this style of wrestling, just my nerd radar, just nerd rage was filling in me. So I couldn't immediately respond because I was feeling personally attacked. But I waited and let it cool down where I'm like, there's no reason to be mad about this. Anyone can like whatever they want. But it got me starting to think, has a five star match drawn a dime?
00:51:25
Speaker
And I mean, you could argue though, I think that these five, six and a half, seven star matches that Kenny Omega put on with Okada, helped build New Japan to where it is now, where it is a legitimate threat. Or on the road to becoming a legitimate threat to WWE or an alternative product for other people to tune into.
00:51:48
Speaker
So this I mean you brought this up and this had tied in with some things I had been thinking about over the last week and
00:51:57
Speaker
Here's the thing, I don't know how you feel about Dave Meltzer's star rating system. I personally, as a fan of wrestling, do not give a shit. I get that Dave Meltzer has a voice in the wrestling community and a lot of people take him seriously and I understand why. I get all that. I really don't care about star ratings. To me, they don't mean anything.
00:52:21
Speaker
I guess, especially it's so reserved for New Japan matches that that's the only time he hands out really high star ranked matches. I don't know, man, it's just another thing I really get into is I think you can be effective in different ways without having a long, epic, dangerous, strong style match. And this is something I'm just now getting into too. Like I'm exploring this and I'm digging it a lot.
00:52:50
Speaker
I know I wanted to tie this in because of the thing that happened with Takahashi. And I know that everyone's favorite scapegoat and favorite wrestling discussion always comes back to fucking Roman Reigns. And it ties into a lot of different stuff. But this is something I wanted to bring up this week. I had listened to an interview with Finn Balor. I can't remember what if it was for a radio station or a podcast or whatever. And they asked him.
00:53:18
Speaker
about Roman Reigns and Finn Balor just raved about him. And it didn't come across to me that he was just blowing smoke or towing the company line. He just said, he's great. People don't realize how great he is. And one of the things that you have to, for all the criticisms I can give Roman Reigns about his character or his entrance or his move set or whatever. Which his entrance seems to be something you're focused on lately.
00:53:45
Speaker
Good fucking lord. I think it just clicked with me two or three weeks ago that his entrance music is What somebody hums to themselves? It's what somebody hums to themselves at work when they're bored Like this under their breath. That's his fucking entrance music. Anyways, that's not what I wanted to get into but Squeedo, dudum, dudum, dudum, dudum, dudum, dudum, dudum Now hit me with Alistair Black
00:54:19
Speaker
Okay, sorry, go back. That's some good entrance music. But here's something we never talk about. And this is something to take into consideration. I don't feel like even other wrestling podcasts talk about this enough. I don't feel like the dirt sheets talk about it enough. Here's something you never hear about Roman Reigns. You never hear somebody say, oh, he's dangerous to work with.
00:54:42
Speaker
You never hear stories about how he's hurt anybody. And this actually got brought up in that text chain too. Like they were talking about how Roman Reigns is the biggest draw on the business right now and how he's a safe worker.
00:54:57
Speaker
And I think for the people who are behind the curtain, that's huge. If you can hold down a main event status spot and then also protect the guys that you're working with, that's huge. And I think that means a lot to the guys that you're working with, that you protect them. How much of that has to do with the fact that his moveset is a lot of punches and a tackle? I'm sure that's a huge part of it. It's not like he's doing a lot of different suplexes. He does a Samoan drop.
00:55:24
Speaker
He does that drive by drop kick stomp, whatever. I think there's something to be said and I wanted to save it for the podcast to get into it because I'm not trying to get your goat or stir you up. There is some truth to the idea that five star matches aren't what elevate or bring down other companies.
00:55:49
Speaker
When you think about all the epic, like, let's use WCW as an example. WCW was able to compete and almost put WWF out of business because they came up with the greatest wrestling storyline of all time, which was the NWO. Yeah.
00:56:07
Speaker
What was the match that threatened WWF during that time period? Like as far as like match rating or epic, you know, something like along lines of a Kenny Omega Okada. I mean, I think the point you're trying to make to me is that we don't remember these matches very well. I think the point I'm making is that I don't think they fucking existed. I mean, when I look back at that time, one of the most exciting matches was Bill Goldberg versus Hulk Hogan.
00:56:37
Speaker
And I'm sure it was probably like five minutes tops, right? Oh, as short as hell. Like the majority of the match was them looking at each other, if I remember, just because they were in a stadium for that. Like they actually ran that match in a stadium.
00:56:50
Speaker
I, maybe the point that your friends are trying to make in this, in this text exchange is that you don't have to be a 45 minute stamina based spot fest match to get the job done because, and this is, this is something that kills me to admit. A lot of people for years will be talking about that, whatever 45 second long match between Goldberg and Brock Lesnar at survivor series.
00:57:20
Speaker
They got a huge response with practically fucking nothing and everyone was into it. Why did it work? We can talk about the artistic merits of professional wrestling and how important that is and how people take pride in being able to put on these awesome matches and those are all valid points and I am not going to reject that at all. I personally like matches like that.
00:57:46
Speaker
However, it's at the same time, it's also crazy to watch how effective somebody can be with with a lot less. And like I said earlier, it seems like Jericho has been trying to instill that in some of the new Japan guys to not go out there and kill yourself every night to save part of your career. You want to be able to go out there and perform until your late 40s or early 50s.
00:58:07
Speaker
and I think they have guys that do work that way like I don't think Kenny Omega is an incredibly dangerous worker or anything like when you see him he has like a couple high spots that he does but he does them nearly every match it's kind of like you know fen baller actually does that same over-the-top rope move that Kenny does I think a lot of his stuff is like it looks worse than it is like where it's a lot of knees didn't you say though that Jericho got really fucked up from the one-winged angel
00:58:35
Speaker
Yeah, he said he'll never take that finisher again. He said that his back is still fucked up from it Doesn't that involve getting dropped like on the back of your neck in the back of your head? I mean you should be landing a little flatter Than that, but I think he also took that move on to a steel chair
00:58:52
Speaker
I mean, you're essentially getting in what would be the small package position. You're getting dropped five feet right onto your upper back neck head area. I mean, I can't deny that a lot of New Japan's moves involve getting thrown right onto your shoulders slash neck.
WWE Storytelling Critique
00:59:09
Speaker
I mean the basic what pissed you off was that basic there was a conversation where that the theme was five star matches six star matches all these great matches they don't fucking matter Garrett they're a waste of time Roman Reigns is the shit that was kind of the theme I mean you know when you initially read it you get a little hot reading that like if you're a fan of the other thing
00:59:32
Speaker
I don't know. I don't completely disagree. I understand that it's dangerous, but I guess the way I look at it is we're in the middle of watching the evolution of a sport. For sure. And I kind of described it as, you know, if the skateboarders never left the pools, we wouldn't have gotten to the X Games. Absolutely.
00:59:55
Speaker
And I feel like we're just we're moving on a little bit. And I don't want to hate WWE. I don't hate WWE. I grew up loving it. I want to still love it. They're just in if we're talking about this doesn't need to happen because we can do the same thing better with storytelling. Well, this company that's known for storytelling needs to step their shit up to get me back. Absolutely.
01:00:17
Speaker
Cause this is the one thing that they're, like you said, they're supposed, this is supposed to be their wheelhouse. This is supposed to be what they're good at. And they are dropping the ball left and right. They fucking had this golden opportunity with, with Nakamura and Styles. And it feels like, like, I mean, they had some moments in there that were good, but it just feels like it could have been so much more if it had been somewhere else. And the thing is, what everybody wanted was a fucking New Japan match from them.
01:00:46
Speaker
And at that point, if you're WWE, why not? You've got these two guys that you know can do this and are willing to do it. I don't understand from their perspective why you can't corner different areas of the market. I guess I've been trying to figure out what's going to be the thing to pull me back in because it makes me sad because at this point, WWE is just like I've said before, it's like they're just collecting all these action figures so no one else can play with them.
01:01:16
Speaker
That's what it feels like. And then you hear rumors about them trying to find ways to fuck with all in. Have you read any of that? They've been trying to offer contracts to a lot of the guys that are on that show, including members of Bullet Club.
01:01:32
Speaker
They're trying to interfere. And this is the funny thing. It feels this way. It feels like if you were to ask them, do you feel threatened by a new Japan Ring of Honor, they would laugh and brush it off. And yet here they are trying to shut down the Ring of Honor show at Madison Square Garden.
01:01:52
Speaker
They're trying to fuck around with All In, they're not happy about that. So as much as they act like they're untouchable, their behavior would suggest otherwise.
01:02:07
Speaker
and then I try to utilize them exactly like when I watch and I think like god I can't wait for this guy to get there oh my god this person's here and I mean it makes sense why everybody would be like I really don't want Kenny to end up there I don't want the bucks end up there because we've seen how they're treating these other people that we love so much
01:02:27
Speaker
but what's funny here's the ironic thing though if they were to go it would be they would be getting paid handsomely it would be the biggest paydays they ever got absolutely and i want to see them make money and succeed but i also feel like they're at a point where they can build this on their own and do something
01:02:44
Speaker
And I think everybody's kind of rooting for him to be able to create something. You said you're waiting for them to find something to draw you back in. For WWE? Absolutely. Would it be fair to say that basically since Dominion, you've kind of been done? Honestly, it wasn't even Dominion. I think it was really attending this last WrestleMania. What the fuck has happened? This is the point that I was about to get to.
01:03:11
Speaker
Look at every, I know you haven't been following closely, which actually I want to get to that in a minute. Cause I have a whole criticism about that with people right now. Um, what has happened since mania? If you were, if you were to put everyone on, on a map of what, what they, where they were at and what they were doing character wise, feud wise since like mania or right before mania. And now here we are in July. That's from March, April to July.
01:03:41
Speaker
Where has anybody gone? What has been the drastic shift? I think the big thing is, all of us thought, okay, we're gonna finally get Roman Reigns as champ. We're gonna get it over with, and it's gonna finally, this is gonna be the thing, and we're gonna see these main event matches of Roman Reigns versus the next top guys. Or all the people that he's gonna crush or whatever.
01:04:02
Speaker
it's essentially like tearing off a band-aid like a lot of us didn't really want to see it but we're okay whatever it's gonna happen fine we'll deal with it it's because the belt will be there every week at the very least that exactly there was a point when I'm like you know what Roman Reigns is right he is there every week and if he's holding that belt and it's on the show he'll probably even do the John Cena thing and defend it every week or defend it more often or obviously defend it more often defend it monthly at least and
01:04:29
Speaker
It's right now, it truly is Brock Lesnar. It just, I think the thing that's exhausting everybody right now is it feels like they are really deeply invested in all of the wrong people. And when they are invested in the right people, they're invested in them the wrong way. So for some reason, like they're willing to, for some fucking reason, Brock Lesnar can show up at UFC.
01:04:58
Speaker
and has more passion for that whatever one minute moment that he had and however many seven years since he's been back or whatever.
01:05:06
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, he's a guy that, at first, I loved the novelty of having a champion that didn't give a shit. It was kind of funny. But the joke has worn off for me. It's not funny anymore. He's truly ruining the show by that belt not being around. It's kind of stopping other people from being able to get anywhere.
01:05:30
Speaker
Right. And when you have a roster full of people who you feel deserve to get somewhere, it's extra frustrating. And it's not even that I hate Brock Lesnar. There's a hand... We've talked about it on here. There are a handful of matches I'd love to see him be a part of. But do you still feel that way now? I mean, I'm still pissed, Adam, but if you said, okay, he's coming back and he's gonna have your match against Finn Balor, I would be like, okay, fine, let's see it. But it would also be a thing that's happened way too late again.
01:06:00
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's jumped the shark. I think so many things, and I've been using that phrase a lot, especially on social media, so many things have jumped the shark with me now. Nothing has changed. Somebody made a great fucking analogy the other day. They were like, Undertaker's like Brett Favre at this point. I saw that. That was accurate. It's spot on. Is he fucking retired or not?
01:06:25
Speaker
Am I supposed to sympathize with his absence or not? Like, I don't understand... What the fuck is going on with Braun Strowman? Like, what's the plan there? We said this after Money in the Bank, I like... I'm fine with him being the number one contender, I don't know if I like him as the monster in the bank.
01:06:43
Speaker
We're still dealing with the same Roman Reign shit where, like, he's the same fucking guy. I mean, I guess the Lashley stuff is better than them pretending that he's an underdog? Because they're making him out to be a monster? I guess. I- I think- I mean, fucking- Did Nia Jax's title reign even happen? We're fucking right back to where Alexa Bliss is the Women's Champion again and- and-
01:07:10
Speaker
It's like certain things never fucking happen. And it's like you need this belt because whoever has the main belt is the main character of the show, the story. And it's like we can't we don't have a main character right now. So they're trying to make storylines that I don't know if they're trying to make me forget that the story has no main character.
01:07:32
Speaker
But I'm not I can't because that should like that's always the thing that it leads to is the heavyweight championship And it's just I can I can tell you for certain that the last three to four weeks of raw Have felt like I'm watching the exact same show
01:07:50
Speaker
There's a segment with the riot squad fucking around with somebody. Elias does his spot. Braun Strowman does something mean to Kevin Owens. Baron Corbin and Finn Balor have interaction. And nothing pushes things forward and nothing makes you want to give a shit. Ronda Rousey isn't there. She's been suspended, but she will be at Extreme Rules on Sunday.
01:08:11
Speaker
which we should kind of mention, I guess, since we're a wrestling podcast. Okay. So I truly have not watched in weeks. Like I'll occasionally catch highlights and see on Twitter updates. And I don't like complaining about wrestling because there's so many other wrestling and that's kind of what we've been doing. We've been watching other shit for a while.
01:08:31
Speaker
But this is the theme going on, I think, in the wrestling world right now. This is the one thing everyone's kind of agreeing with. I put out a call today asking if you're somebody who's still watching the product.
Audience Engagement and WWE's Decline
01:09:03
Speaker
subjective, you know, we all like our own thing and like things for different reasons. So I want to know for anyone who is still watching the show, what storyline is happening right now? What character is happening? What's going on that works and don't and I don't mean with NXT because right now NXT is great still and I'm still watching NXT. It's just the main show is it just kind of feels like a mess.
01:09:03
Speaker
and you like it?
01:09:31
Speaker
I think my big battle that I've been having online, which everyone seems to be a thing people do these days.
01:09:40
Speaker
When you start criticizing WWE, there's always somebody who inevitably pops up to tell you, those people who are running that company, they know what they're doing, man. They get paid millions of dollars. They just got that deal with Fox. They just got a new deal with USA. They know what they're doing. Who the fuck are you? Why do you know better? And my response will continue to fucking be,
01:10:04
Speaker
The guy making the final call on all of these things in 2018 thinks it's a good idea to resurrect his shitty 17 year old dead football league.
01:10:17
Speaker
that he's he's he has millions of dollars that he earned off the backs of hard-working fucking wrestlers that he has now invest because it's his money and he thinks oh well you know there's some controversy in the NFL I'll capitalize on that by bringing back a football league that only lasted one year and barely lasted that one year
01:10:39
Speaker
But where is his fucking mind at? And I know that it's, again, it's passé to criticize Roman Reigns, it's passé to fucking criticize Vince McMahon, but this is the conversation that's being had right now, because between New Japan Ring of Honor and being the elite, there's a lot of kick-ass stuff going on on that side of the spectrum, and it just feels like WWE is just showing up for work, punching in and fucking leaving.
01:11:04
Speaker
And they're not apologetic. Do you think they've just had so much time where they were the only thing that they just aren't trying that hard? I said this after they signed their Fox deal because everyone was talking about, well, now that they'll have some incentive to try. Why? They got their fucking money. I think they think they're too big to fail.
01:11:28
Speaker
They just, I just read this before we started recording the podcast. This raw from yesterday, this week, was the lowest rated raw for the Nielsen ratings since they've been keeping track of it for raw. Jesus. Whatever their business model is right now, at least from the artistic standpoint, fucking sucks.
01:11:48
Speaker
Maybe they're making merch money, which by the way, as Queen of the Ring pointed out on her YouTube channel, their fucking merchandise has been shitty. The product has been shitty. WWE has been really bad lately.
01:12:02
Speaker
It truly just comes down to that. It's not that I hate the WWE, it's just they are not putting on a good show right now. And I think when we started doing this, you really hadn't seen much New Japan at all, or Ring of Honor, or just indie wrestling.
01:12:23
Speaker
For me, when I started watching indie wrestling, it started to not pull me away from the WWE, but it was showing me there's this other thing. And I think you put it pretty well. You're like, WWE, they'll see what people want and then say, we'll give that to you someday.
01:12:41
Speaker
And it takes them too long to get around to it. And I understand that a build is a good thing. And there's a way to do a build without making people wait two years. Or wait, I mean, however long. And then, you know, Dominion came along pretty much at the right time after kind of a bad WrestleMania where they just were like, this is all the shit you wanted. Here you go. And since then have still been doing good shit.
01:13:10
Speaker
like WWE has still been doing shit. Just well, just kind of the same. I just and I and I we talked about this before the podcast podcast started, but I just don't know if booking the way that they have wanted to book for years. I don't think it works that way anymore. I think the news cycle plays a part. I think YouTube and Hulu and Twitter getting condensed versions of the shows, getting to watch the highlights on YouTube and getting livestream updates.
01:13:40
Speaker
You know, on social media, it's changed the game and people don't want to wait around for to find out. Oh, oh, now you're doing the Miz versus Daniel Bryan. Holy shit. We never saw that coming, even though during the fucking superstar shakeup, they announced that the reason the Miz went to Smackdown was because Daniel Bryan wanted him there.
01:14:00
Speaker
And now they're not addressing the elephant in the room, but for a fucking build? People want to see it now! They're not going to want to see it eight months from now, if he even fucking resigns. Because that was kind of the hot story when he came back, is he can finally kick the Mrs. Ass. Like he's wanted to do for so long. Yeah, it's the assumption that this stuff that they can just fiddle around with, and it'll be fine whenever they decide to go to it.
01:14:26
Speaker
They ended, what was that? What was this last WrestleMania we just got out of? Was that 34? Yeah, 34. They ended WrestleMania 33 and Brock Lesnar was the Universal Champion and it was known throughout the wrestling community that they were building this up so that it could be Roman Reigns versus Brock Lesnar. That is long-term booking. That is long-term booking. It fucking failed. It didn't get the reaction it wanted.
01:14:54
Speaker
Like, I'm done hearing about long-term booking philosophy. I just wanna see good booking. I don't care if it only lasts a month or two months. Give the people what they wanna fucking see. I mean, it would at least be a good experiment for the company. It's like, at this point, what do you have to lose to try just giving the people what they want for a while and see if the ratings get better?
01:15:15
Speaker
Right, they long-term booked with Nakamura and Styles. They're trying right now to long-term book with Miz and Bryan, presumably. They're trying to build something with Strowman and Lesnar, I'm guessing.
01:15:28
Speaker
But all this stuff that they're making you wait on, like eventually you keep your customer waiting in line long enough, they just leave the line. And guess what's right next door? This really fucking business that's kicking ass and drawing a lot of attention and has, you know, the merchandise aspect of the indie scene has blown up with pro wrestling tees and New Japan World's taken off and Ring of Honor's taken off a little bit more than it was a few years ago.
01:15:55
Speaker
I still think that New Japan is better than Ring of Honor. I think Ring of Honor has work to do with a lot of characters. But I think Ring of Honor is an extension of New Japan. Exactly. They play so nicely together right now that you can tune in and still probably see a couple New Japan characters from time to time pop into their show for a fight.
01:16:20
Speaker
I... You're right.
WWE vs. Indie Wrestling: Excitement Factor
01:16:21
Speaker
We try not to be negative. How many times have we said that on episodes of this podcast where we're trying not to be negative, but here comes the negative stuff. It's the theme that's rolling around lately. You're probably gonna hear it from us a few more times, but...
01:16:34
Speaker
Well, I guess coming back to just the match, the five star match doesn't draw. I think it just comes back to, you know, right now, I think it could be the draw because it's just more exciting. And right now, WWE just is not very exciting. And that's something that's missing. And he is, I don't know, is the five star match drawn on the past? I guess not.
01:16:59
Speaker
But I would argue that be the next star match. I would argue the five-star match isn't what's drawing people to New Japan right now. It's the Bullet Club and Everything involved with that the elite
01:17:13
Speaker
You think it's just, well, but, but then you hear like, you know, LIJ, like with the fans is just getting so incredibly over that I think there's just so much over there. I think people are starting to, I think people tuned in for the Bullet Club and have found these other characters and are realizing how cool they are and how good they are at what they do and are just following interesting stories between everyone.
01:17:35
Speaker
Oh, I agree. I think the storylines and the characters like I agree with all of that. I'm not even downplaying that. I'm not saying the five star matches and all that. The great product that they put on is the reason why they're getting so much attention right now. And every aspect of that that's involved. That said, I think that there is like the bullet club thing is a cultural icon right now. Those shirts are being worn by people who do not give a fuck about New Japan or Ring of Honor.
01:18:03
Speaker
Oh, I've definitely tried to twosweet somebody wearing the shirt that had no idea what I was talking about. It transcends wrestling. And that to me has nothing to do with five star matches or anything. It's the new NWO shirt. It really is. And like you were saying, the NWO was the coolest news storyline at the time that got WCW over.
01:18:25
Speaker
And then it took, well I guess not even better, but it took WCW fucking up and then Rock Austin and Austin McMahon to bring WCW down. That storyline killed WCW.
01:18:41
Speaker
And I think what you're watching right now, I'm not going to tell you it's the end of WWE because that would be fucking ridiculous. That's absurd. Like for a company that, I mean, regardless of what we personally think of the show, they just made a billion fucking dollars. Yeah. But what would happen if Breckenbrock Lesnar just walked away right now? It would be amazing. Like, because even at this point for UFC, I want to see Cormier kick his ass. Like, I think, I think it's wrestling. What if he didn't put anybody over? What's that?
01:19:11
Speaker
I'm saying like, I don't mean like walk away because then he's done with WWE. I mean like he walks away and doesn't like drop the title on anybody. Like if he just leaves with, well you keep seeing that meme where they keep putting Lesnar's face on Medusa's body and you see her dropping the bells in the trash. Right, he's left WWE on like no notice before.
01:19:32
Speaker
I mean, I could easily see him doing it. I mean, and do they ignore that and just say they got the belt back or do they have to create another belt because Brock Lesnar left with it and it's storyline wise, it's gone forever. I don't know why you paint yourself into a corner with a guy who clearly just doesn't give a shit. I don't want to hear from somebody that he has passion for pro wrestling. I saw more passion out of him in that one minute at UFC than I'd seen since he's been in WWE.
01:19:59
Speaker
For the love of God, he walked into the octagon smiling.
Podcast Reflection and Closing Reminders
01:20:03
Speaker
Jesus. He put on a suit. He was ready. Well hey, we've been talking for an hour and 20 minutes. Let's end on a negative note.
01:20:19
Speaker
uh this has been a fun one though i mean it's a discussion that needed to be had because we can't just ignore wwe forever i feel like for the last couple weeks we weren't really talking about it at all but this is why like there's other stuff to watch and i will come back to wwe will i watch extreme rules yes i'm going to watch it will i watch it live honestly i probably won't this week because i just
01:20:43
Speaker
That's fine. Yeah, I'll catch up with it later. I can watch it and fast forward through stuff just because there's so much like the G1 is going to be going on. We're going to have these right now in, you know, Okada and Naito are both in separate brackets. So a lot of people are kind of speculating that it could end up being Okada Naito. And that's fun because that is long term storytelling because whoever wins this is who's going on to headline Wrestle Kingdom.
01:21:09
Speaker
Right. And that's months and months away. So that's a very long term storyline. And I think it's going to be Nido. We'll see. WWE sucks, but there's other stuff out there to entertain you. Get on it. Enjoy it. And again, this is your last chance to enter our contest to win two tickets to all in. Get on that to get your rating review and email it to us. Thanks for listening, everyone.
01:21:34
Speaker
I'm sorry I'm sorry we had such a bitch fest I feel like it's just it's not the normal way this show goes but we went to a couple good shows had a little to complain about my apologies thank you for hanging out with us it's always a pleasure to have you here rate review subscribe rate review subscribe rate review subscribe social media Oh at predetermined podcast on Instagram at Wrestle Hangout on Facebook at Wrestle Hangout on Twitter Garrett take us out of here
01:22:03
Speaker
Hit our goddamn music.