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Upgrade with Michelin Star Chef Suvir Saran's recipe of success
92 Plays4 years ago
We are in conversation with Chef Suvir Saran. The man who went from being a visual arts student to becoming a Michelin Star chef and putting Indian cuisine on the world map.
In this episode, Nakul chats with Chef Suvir about his culinary journey, his take on pet-friendly restaurants, reality cooking shows and how technology has made cooking accessible for the masses to explore. Tune in to find out Chef Suvir’s favourite kitchen gadgets, food apps & what makes him an Apple fanboy!
A bonus - his favourite restaurants in India.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Upgrade with Nakul'
00:00:07
Speaker
Hello guys, welcome to Upgrade with Naqul. The point of the show is, we meet interesting people, they give us their productivity hacks, the technology they use, and we have to upgrade.
Impact of COVID on Restaurant Plans
00:00:29
Speaker
Hi guys, welcome to another episode of Upgrade with Naqul and I have a very special guest today
00:00:35
Speaker
It's Chef Suveer, who's a Michelin star chef. Suveer, welcome. Thank you for having me, Nakul. So, to kick things off, I was so excited to hear that you are launching your own restaurant in
Challenges in the Hospitality Industry
00:00:50
Speaker
Gurgaon. I am also from Gurgaon, so I was really looking forward to and then this COVID happened. So, what are your plans now?
00:01:00
Speaker
Plans are on hold while the landlords and the city government and the government in general of the nation wake up and realize that
00:01:13
Speaker
the hospitality industry as we know it is in a flood. Operators and restaurateurs and employees and owners all are in a very tough spot and we must have some intervention governmental from landlords if we want our restaurant industry to survive otherwise who knows what's up in the air. It's all up in the air we don't know what will happen. I'm hoping that all of this gets resolved and we can open back up in the next month or month and a half and
Significance of a Michelin Star
00:01:43
Speaker
have the House of Celeste running again and feeding people and hopefully giving them memorable bites that they can savor and enjoy over a long time. Why not? That's good. OK. You are a Michelin star chef. What does that mean to you? It means to me that there's a stamp somewhere on my person that I can't see and a mirror doesn't show. But it tells me that it's like the emperor with no clothes. I could be nothing but a cochlear Michelin chef.
00:02:12
Speaker
So it means something and it means nothing. It means that a certain body of reviewers thought my cuisine worthy enough of getting that very sought after recognition. But it also means nothing because you're only as good as the last meal you serve.
00:02:28
Speaker
So beyond the stars, beyond the recognition, you have to be a happy human being, a comfortable person in your own skin and a decent human being that when you are 70, 80, 60 and you look at the mirror, the mirror doesn't show you a monster, but shows you a human being that you respect and admire and say, you know, I like that guy.
00:02:49
Speaker
The others are labels that can come and go and be taken away as easily as they are given to you. But they are a recognition and a recognition of you having done something right. Does it define you entirely? Not at all.
Maintaining Standards Post-Michelin Recognition
00:03:03
Speaker
But yes, they do help you get to new benchmarks in your life's journey a little easier because you have it. But this is you talking 13 years after.
00:03:15
Speaker
When it happened in 2007, am I right? Yes. Did it change you at that time and then maybe you matured now and it doesn't affect you that much, but what was your feeling at that time when you got it? Like many other mission start chefs, the feeling was that, oh my God, now I have to commit suicide when they take it away.
00:03:35
Speaker
And so, you know, you're excited, you are grateful and you carry on. For me, it was I had to work harder because I could only go one direction after that, which is down. So to be on my A-game, I had to work triply as hard and with more passion and more commitment and sweat and persevere and keep going at it because I knew I had to remain relevant to myself.
Focus on Indian Cuisine
00:04:03
Speaker
So you studied in Delhi.
00:04:05
Speaker
And then you did your college from Bombay. And then you went to New York. And then you do odd jobs. And then you started your restaurant in New York.
00:04:15
Speaker
Why did you choose Indian food to portray? Why couldn't you do anything else? Indian food chose me, I believe, not me choosing it. I tell people I wasn't born to wash dishes and chopped vegetables and stand in front of a store for hours and literally killed my shoulders cooking every day. But there was a niche, a whole glaring gap in the cuisines of the world.
00:04:44
Speaker
where Indian food looked terrible and still does look rather abysmal. We are a huge chunk of the world's population, but our food is considered one of the least gourmet in the world of gourmet cuisines. And unfortunately, we as a people of a great nation called India have done very little to share the length and breadth, the vast
00:05:13
Speaker
culinary variety of our cuisine with people in the right way. What we've shown until this moment is a very monolithic, boring face of a cuisine that's not even our main cuisine. The food we share with people, butter chicken dal makhani, paneer makhani,
00:05:33
Speaker
These are tandoori chicken. These are not even the cuisines of India that were important to Indians themselves. This came up only after India gained independence and there were people travelling from one part to the other. Somebody cooked a mediocre meal that suited their needs.
00:05:50
Speaker
And okay, it was easy enough and money was made and the cuisine came and grew out of it. So that's the reason a lot of the world of gourmet eaters, diners, thinks of Indian food as being cheap and cheery. That it fills your tummy, gives you greasy food and you're comfortable at night when you eat it. The next morning you smell bad and you have indigestion and you feel bloated. And that's not what good food does. Our home cooking,
00:06:19
Speaker
regional gems of India from the south, the north, the east, the west, central India, wherever you go, from mountain to sea. Our food is so varied, so yummy, so delicious, so seasonal, so regionally inspired, so sustainably sourced, so healthfully curated.
00:06:41
Speaker
that our home chefs and the Maharajas and the Khansamas of India have for generations and eons served the best meals that people could have found anywhere in the world but we don't find them in Indian restaurants. So that was missing when I came of age and I was ashamed to see people berate my people and their food and so I started cooking the foods of the Indian home and next thing I knew people were saying there's this young kid in New York who cooked some of the best
00:07:11
Speaker
Food in New York City, not just Indian. I didn't choose the path the path came my way No, it happens to best of people that the passion chooses them and not the other way other way So but thanks to cooking I can talk to you now So so we Tell me something
Culinary Passion and Beginnings
00:07:33
Speaker
about your childhood. What what were your inspiration growing up? You are a typical Delhi boy and then
00:07:40
Speaker
How did you get into cooking? You know, I grew up in a very average middle class home of Delhi. In South Extension, went to school, to modern school, was Santvihar. They encouraged free thinking and taught us kids to be citizens of a new young nation that would be relevant tomorrow because our thoughts were as pluralistic and varied as the people of India. So that was the education I was given at a young age.
00:08:09
Speaker
And as a young kid who knew he was different from other boys of his age, I found in the kitchen a safe haven where I could live, breathe, think and be myself without anybody judging me. And so when other kids may have been playing tennis, cricket or football, I would go into the kitchen and be with Panditji, our family's cook.
00:08:36
Speaker
and I would go to Panditji and say, he would show me what he was up to. The food was the magnet that brought me into the kitchen and Panditji would cook for the family, cook for the deity that my Dadi would do pooja to and then the food would be taken to the chaat, the roof where the birds would eat it and I would tell Dadi, and she would tell me the birds are eating it but they take it to the goal.
00:09:02
Speaker
And so I realized at a young age that food was also divine, that it had a connection to the divine. And I understood the diktat that says you are what you eat. So you had to be cooking mindfully, cooking with respect, cooking with not to tradition. So all of this was part of the conversations that happened in our home kitchen, at our dining table, and in our school. It was in India that was young. It was in India that still had hopes, dreams, and aspirations, and grand leaders were big.
00:09:31
Speaker
thoughts and vision that taught us to think beyond our comfort zone. So those were the people and times that shaped me as a young kid growing up in India and I'm grateful for that. But you still do not take up cooking as a serious pursuit but still as a hobby, right?
00:09:52
Speaker
I did it almost every day. I would watch Panditji, help him. The earliest memories, Nakul, that anyone has of me are memories of me either cooking with them, asking them for a recipe or teaching an aunt who was 20 years plus older than me, how to roll a chapati or how to do something. But I would say, no, no, don't do it this way. I've learned Panditji, do it this way. So let me show it to you.
00:10:17
Speaker
food gave me some semblance of comfort in life and knowing that I was, I also had a place in this world. But then how did you get into food if you didn't have any formal training? You don't need, of course you need training in everything you do in life.
00:10:34
Speaker
But some of us suckers, gluttons for punishment. So we do it the hard way. We go to the University of Fort Knox where life punches you and beats you and you learn the hard way. Others have the good luck of going to university and learning through textbooks. Is one better than the other? You know, we could talk hours about the pros and cons.
00:10:57
Speaker
But it may be harder to do something without a professional training in it. But there are some who think that those who do it without professional training come to it with more passion and commitment. So in the end, who knows who's better off?
00:11:14
Speaker
But I can tell you that for years, I chaired the Asian Studies Center at the Culinary Institute of America. And it's the world's largest, most well-respected, and incredible school of learning and education in the culinary arts. And I bow to the teachers that teach there. I respect them incredibly. And I find the kids who go there most fortunate and lucky. And I consider it an honor to be teaching there.
00:11:41
Speaker
speaking there and inspiring students there. And I tell young kids coming of age that travel, go to school, eat hungrily, work with a master of cuisine that you respect, whose food makes you get took in your mouth, makes your mouth water, and work with them. And that's the best training and knowledge you can give yourself.
00:12:04
Speaker
And most of all, first be a student before you can think that you arrived. A chef means a chief.
00:12:12
Speaker
But in life, a chef has to first be a foot soldier, working hard, sweating, going hungry some days, being restless, but in the pursuit of perfection, losing sleep because there's something telling you, I have to fix that one mistake that I made till I let you do it correctly. You don't go to bed. You have to have that fire in your belly to do things correctly.
00:12:36
Speaker
near perfect perfectly. And if you have that, you're a student. And a good chef is not just a chef. He's a student of cuisine forever. Because the day you think you know it all is the last day you should be cooking. The best students are those who are never anything but hungry students. So a very tangent question. When you set up House of Celeste, how did you choose your chef?
00:13:05
Speaker
What is the process? If I want to become a chef at your restaurant, what is the process?
Hiring Philosophy in the Culinary World
00:13:11
Speaker
For my restaurants, and I've done this wherever I've opened restaurants in New York and when I've helped others find chefs around the US when I consulted, I never looked for degrees. I never looked for recommendations.
00:13:25
Speaker
I look at a human being and ask them life questions. I present challenges to them. I take them to places where I know there'll be adversity and challenge and discomfort and pain and agony and
00:13:42
Speaker
all kinds of negative things that will happen. And I've watched this chef or person I'm interviewing to see what their body language is, what their reactions are, how they handle a situation on their feet, how they tackle adversity, how they deal with pain, how they
00:14:02
Speaker
connect with people when there's friction. And if that can all be shown to me with a positive inflection, then the professional training as a chef I can do. I can teach people how to cook. I can't teach them how to be good human beings or how to be forgiving and how to be generous, how to be kind, how to be graceful, how to be elegant, how to be respectful. Those are values we've learned in our life.
00:14:31
Speaker
Sometimes how do you judge that in an interview? I don't. I see them in, as I said, I take them to settings where if I've been told he's a good chef, I take them with me to a crowded marketplace, a restaurant that's terribly bad with service and faltering with the food, maybe suspicious and not all dishes are good. And I watch their body language. I see what they're doing. I see how they're eating. I see what they're saying about the food of another chef.
00:14:59
Speaker
How they are treating a server in a restaurant? Are they being kind to a person sitting next to them? Are they respectful of strangers? Are they decent around the elderly? Look at women as predators.
00:15:15
Speaker
So you know, I study people's psyche more than I study their resume. And when I was choosing my chef at the House of Celeste, I had no idea I'll be picking up a chef when I was dining at a restaurant called Roux. I arrived at Roux, and the food was mostly good, but it had like in any restaurant, my own. There are off days and on days. There can be times where we just make a simple mistake.
00:15:41
Speaker
And there were several beautiful dishes, far from beautiful dishes. And the chef came out and the chef's name was Vardhan Marwar. And Vardhan, I called him and I said, what did you just send me? And he told me what he did. I said, have you seen it? And I showed him what it was. And I said, aren't you ashamed of yourself that you're sending this out? And he said, I'm so sorry. And he understood what had gone wrong. And he said, allow me a few minutes and let me go make one more.
00:16:08
Speaker
And he made one more and it was a little better but only a hair better.
00:16:12
Speaker
And I said to him, are you proud of this? He said, no, chef, but I know this is a little better. But and then he told me that the chef and chef, you know, this is the problem when you have absentee chefs that live in another country and cook in another continent, have their name in a menu in another continent. There's a disconnect between the chef's vision and the food going out on the table. And he said the chef had changed the recipe. But of course, the poor chef wasn't there to look at what had happened to the recipe when it had been changed.
00:16:40
Speaker
So he apologized but the way Vardhan handled himself with the grace, the humility, the decency, the calm, the patient manner that told me this boy is a leader of tomorrow and he was all of 25 years old without any experience. I decided to hire him on the spot in my head so then I asked the manager for his number they gave it to me and I talked with him and I
00:17:06
Speaker
wrote about him. I put about the restaurant and the food he made on my Instagram feed and I asked him if he would be willing to meet with me and he said yes and at that point we met and the next thing we knew we thought alike we reacted to circumstances in the same way we went to a couple of meals together and I realized this is the man I want to hire because he was a solid human being with good values with the right amount mix of
00:17:36
Speaker
confidence, humility, decency, integrity, honor, and generosity of spirit, that all is essential to be a good chef. And I knew that I have the experience that I can teach him how to cook the food I want to cook with him, but I couldn't make him the human being he should be as a good human being that the world wants. So when he had everything else as a good human being, I knew I could give him all the skills he needed as a chef.
00:18:03
Speaker
And so I hired him, and I'm very grateful I did. He's an incredible chef, and I respect him, and we grow every day that we work together. And as you see in Hollywood movies, you don't do the five French sauces test or something like that? Well, what's the point of doing it? You can have made five great sauces and perfected them, but the sixth one will go bad when the two tests of life happens when you are
00:18:33
Speaker
in service and there's a customer who throws that damn sauce because they think it's awful. If you can't go charm the customer and make them happy with the sauce you've cooked, there's no way that you're going to win. So you need a good human being at the end of the day. A chef and the stars don't matter. A human being can make all the difference.
Comparing Culinary Landscapes
00:18:51
Speaker
Okay, you started out in New York. How was New York at that time?
00:18:57
Speaker
different to what's happening in Gurgaon or Delhi now. I mean, from a restaurant culture, the excitement, I live in Gurgaon. And before COVID, there was every cuisine, restaurant available all over the place. And there were sushis, there were foam-led chemical dishes, and everything you see on TV is available.
00:19:26
Speaker
What is your view on that? India, not just Gurgaon, India is in a very interesting place in its culinary history, in its own evolution as a nation. In some ways, I feel I'm now living in New York of 1993. When I arrived in New York, New York wasn't the city it is today or before the lockdown.
00:19:53
Speaker
New York was depressed. New York was coming of age. New York had rough edges. New York had big dreams but had no ability to get there. New York was confused. New York hated people who were different. New York was struggling between racial strife and poverty and crime. Everything was in a flux. And I see in India a nation that's in flux.
00:20:19
Speaker
And I wonder often that maybe there's a reason that the planetary charts brought me to India because after 27 years, maybe the world wanted me to reinvent myself and be a young boy again. So I feel like a young boy in New York of 1993 in India of 2020.
00:20:42
Speaker
So there's a lot of opportunities. There's a lot of room for growth. There's a lot of, you know, in India we have, we feel like we are this great star. Oh, we are like the Chinese. We are doing the next big thing. And we really aren't. We are far, far, far from being even as big as the Chinese were now, number two. But we have that machismo. We have that confidence, the swagger, the teenage pride and ego and
00:21:11
Speaker
noise and bluster but at the end of the day we really don't know who we are and which is okay it's a great way to be because where what do teenagers become wonderful adults so there's so much ahead of India and so much more that we will be reaching and the potential to realize aspirations to reach realizations to make
00:21:36
Speaker
So this is a wonderful, exciting time in India's culinary history and its history as a nation. And I'm thrilled to be part of it. Very interestingly, when you were talking about India and the people, I could relate it with the cricket teams over the years. Your cricket team in the 90s versus your between and then I don't know if you follow cricket. Very little. The personalities of people playing is gone exactly the same thing you are talking about.
00:22:05
Speaker
Right. The cricket players now are young bash. They don't shy. They're super confident. Right. And if you look at the your 90s cricketers, they were, you know, Gavaskar and Kapil, they are apologetic. Right. Maybe they haven't deserved this. And but they're still good. So, you know, why are they here? So I can see what you're saying.
00:22:37
Speaker
OK, I wanted to talk about, I know you have two lovely dogs. And I was discussing this with a close friend of mine who has four dogs. And he said India lacks restaurants, which allows pets, and hotels, and other places where you can take your pet with you as an enjoyment place. What is your view on that?
00:23:05
Speaker
So I think your friend has a very valid point. We should have more places which are pet friendly. I would never go take my dogs to a restaurant. For one reason, when I go to a restaurant, I want to enjoy the rest. As a man who's, I don't know if your friend has just dogs. I've had a farm for 15 plus years where I had 200 chickens, 48 alpacas, almost 48 coats, 50 ducks, 50 geese.
00:23:34
Speaker
40 plus guinea hens and a partridge in a pear tree and five mountain lions and six, seven pigs and hundreds of wild turkeys. So I've lived with animals and I loved them and I was one of those people who literally put money into the earth in fodder, in safety, in providing a safe haven for these domesticated animals, animals that were my own farm animals and wild animals that lived on my property.
00:24:04
Speaker
So I'm an animal person, but when I go out to dine, I don't need to go out to take my animals with me. My animals in some ways are more comfortable left at home, where the sights and sounds and the interference of strangers doesn't overwhelm them. But that said, I think having more dog-friendly restaurants and hotels would be a great thing. In America, we have them, and I love that part of it.
00:24:30
Speaker
There's a place in between Delhi and Gurgaon. There's a place in Nappaduri. And they have a restaurant there that has outdoor seating for dogs. And you can bring your dog. And they have dog menus. I think that's wonderful to have every if you have a million restaurants, maybe a couple of thousand should have dog friendly menus and spaces in them.
00:24:54
Speaker
Yeah, so there is a very interesting service available in Mumbai where it's called cuddling therapy or something like that and they bring cats to your home and then you spend an hour with a lot of cats in your house and you cuddle with them and just
00:25:10
Speaker
spend and enjoy time with them and it's supposed to be kind of a therapy. And it's truth to it. In the US, there are so many hospital or nursing homes where the elderly are, where there are patients recovering from different maladies that bring in cats and dogs and alpacas and llamas and animals that have been trained to interact with humans.
Essential Kitchen Tools
00:25:35
Speaker
OK, so I am an amateur cook. I can do a decent omelette, but I have a few equipment which I really bank upon in my kitchen. The first one being an air fryer because I love my non-veg. And hence, I start to avoid oil. I start using air fryer, which requires less oil. Do you have some tools which are must-do for your kitchen?
00:26:05
Speaker
I love my stand mixer, which is a mixer which you can make cakes and batters and also grind meat and all kinds of things. I love my food processor. That's something in which you can make pulverized things very easily. I love a good blender. I love a stick blender. And I have almost any kitchen tool made by mankind. The chances are if I don't have one, I may have five of them.
00:26:35
Speaker
And I have a dream kitchen for just about even 20 chefs to dream together. If they want a kitchen, mine will be what they want. I have too much. More than 20 chefs could have together.
00:26:48
Speaker
Yes, I love a great stand mixer, a good food processor, a great super heavy duty blender. I have a Whiter Mix that I think if anybody has the money and the ability to buy one, Whiter Mix is the blender that eats 20 other blenders just for breakfast every day. So it can pulverize a blender in a second.
00:27:09
Speaker
So that's a great blender to have. Steak blenders are great because you can bring them to the stove and make a soup in a second. Other than that, I think the most important tool that one we need to have is between our ears, the brain. And if you have the desire and the hunger and the thirst to cook,
00:27:28
Speaker
The greatest tools in the world are two hands and the grays matter between our ears. If you have the three in good stead, you can do anything with a little more love and time, but perhaps even better than a machine because you can control the texture and the temperature much better because there's no heating happening that machinery brings to the fore.
00:27:50
Speaker
So I love tools. I have all of them. But I think the most important tool we need is a brain that functions and a mind that wants to cook. Because when you go to Indian villages with nothing, these poor people make beautiful meals that are so much better than some of the poor of the world who have all the equipment in their kitchen but don't have the will to cook.
00:28:14
Speaker
So equipment is essential. And I think it is a very important point because if you have good equipment, you can actually function as a professional with another job that keeps you busy. Be a parent to children who are hungry and you can feed them because you have the ability to do all the things you want to do without too much sweat and pain and angst. So that's what is good about equipment. But all the equipment does is sleep if your brain doesn't want you to cook.
00:28:44
Speaker
So funny thing, I remember I follow a YouTube channel called Village Cook and they show you how to cook the same stuff but in village style. So basically in earthen pods or open flames and those kind of things. And when you see the final product, it looks so yummy.
00:29:07
Speaker
But I don't have open open flame. But I always dream I'll go to a farmhouse and then I'll build up my own fire and then put a pot and you're right. I love open flame cooking, but you can mirror it here. So, you know, when I make my bangan ka bharta, I make it in an open flame on the stovetop. And then the other thing you can do is in your
00:29:35
Speaker
There's a French ceramicist called Emile Henri that makes incredible cookware today that goes from stove fire into the oven, onto table, and into refrigerator. So it goes into all these different modes while being clay. So if I tell people, I tell them, don't worry about as many electrical gadgets as cookware.
00:30:02
Speaker
If you can buy a good copper stainless-line cookware from France or Italy, even in India, we used to have it.
00:30:11
Speaker
people making it. The foundries are gone where good heavy duty cookware was made because only Halwai's used it and they have different sizes. But for good homestyle cookware, Emmy Laundry, Mobile, All-Clad, Le Crucet, these are people who, some of them have come to India, I know Le Crucet has come to India, large cast iron is in India.
00:30:34
Speaker
And if you find them, buy them, because you'll only buy them once in a lifetime. So I tell people, if you buy good cookware, you don't have to buy it every two years. You can buy it for three to five or six generations of humans, because they last longer than a couple of lifetimes. So invest in good cookware, and that's the best gift you can give yourself. Yeah, I've been eyeing this knife set
00:31:04
Speaker
which is for 20,000 bucks, some Japanese knives, and I'm just not able to think that I'm going to spend so much money on knives, but it looks so amazing. Japanese knives are beautiful.
00:31:16
Speaker
a whole collection collected over many years and you know a good Japanese knife can range from four five hundred dollars to three to ten thousand dollars for one knife US dollars and it's a beautiful thing but as I said again it's good to have all of these things we don't need them the other knives
00:31:39
Speaker
I'm amazed when I see street vendors of India with a Chhoti-C knife. In America, somebody couldn't cut an apple with the knife that a street vendor chops 100 onions in 20 minutes. So again, Steve, Will, you need to have the desire and all of a sudden everything you have is just right.
00:32:00
Speaker
No, no. And that's the exact conversation I had with my wife. So till now, we have just bought 80 rupees knife. And now I'm thinking about a 20,000 worth knife. And she's like, dude, how is it going to make difference in taste? That's her question. And she has a valid point. I couldn't argue with her.
00:32:21
Speaker
I would love to know more about how you transitioned from, I know you went to an art school and then you were studying something different in US as well, but how did you really get into food?
Journey from Art to Culinary
00:32:35
Speaker
I left home when I was 18 to go to Bombay to study at Sir JJ's school of art.
00:32:40
Speaker
They would take two kids that were not Maharashtrian every year. I was one of them in 1991. And in 93, I arrived in New York where I studied graphic design and art history at the School of Visual Arts. And while I went to school, I also worked full time.
00:33:00
Speaker
in retail and between working full time going to school full time I still found time to cook every morning to take food for my classmates or co-workers depending on where I was going in the morning that day.
00:33:14
Speaker
And then every evening I would come home between 6.30 and 7.38. But between 8 and 10.30 I would lay a beautiful feast out every night and strangers and friends alike would show up and I would feed them and then go to bed around 2 or 3 in the morning after cleaning up. And this happened every day.
00:33:33
Speaker
And I was doing this because I wanted to live a life like I had grown up with in India, in our home in New Delhi. My people would say our home was like the Grand Central Station. Friends, family members, neighbors, our classmates and their friends would just show up at any given time. And my parents and Dadi and our Panditji would make sure that everyone was fed and welcomed with a smile and sent home happy.
00:33:59
Speaker
So I was doing this in New York City while working a full-time job and going to school full-time. And that's what, while doing it every day, I would feed people. Word spread, this young kid cooks the best food in the city. Somebody invited me to do a birthday party for their husband. Another invited me to do their child's 21st birthday. Another to do their engagement dinner. Another to do their child's bar mitzvah. The next thing I knew, I was being called the best caterer in town by Zagat.
00:34:29
Speaker
Then India turned 50 years of age. It was 1997. The Carnegie Hall did a taste test of caterers. So I applied to be one of those caterers. After my tasting, I was the one that was picked. And next thing I knew, one of my desserts for that night, mango passion fruit mousse. I served in an orange shell with eggs in a nest of pomegranate eggs.
00:34:54
Speaker
We made it to the cover of New York Magazine when they called me one of the best caterers in town. And next thing I knew a man came to me with money. His name was Rakesh Agarwal who ran a very successful restaurant group in New York.
00:35:10
Speaker
called the Baluchi group of restaurants. He told me, I have money, I have space, why don't you partner with me? And we opened the restaurant, Devi. Next thing I knew, the Michelin guide came to America and I was one of the first 18 chefs and the first Indian to get a Michelin star. The first year the guide came to America. So a series of accidents led me to food.
00:35:31
Speaker
And I'm happy that they did because I love to eat, I love to feed, I love to entertain and I love to indulge people. So that's the story of my journey from student to cooking. You make it sound so easy, but I'm sure it must be very exhausting. You know, is anything easy in life? It is as easy or as difficult as we make it out to be nakut.
00:36:01
Speaker
We can end our day thinking that we are exhausted or we can end it thinking that I'm so lucky that I have people that love me, people that think me blessed enough to be joining me at my table, people that think I'm worthy enough to have them in my home. So I had to thank my stars that I had this good luck. Of course, I slept two to three hours a night and I was otherwise awake, working, cooking, cleaning or studying.
00:36:30
Speaker
And I had no other life. But I had the best experiences. So it wasn't, it's not difficult. Is it easy? Nothing in life is easy. But it wasn't difficult either.
Tech Preferences in Creative Work
00:36:42
Speaker
So I know you are an Apple fanboy. And you own the Mac desktop when nobody owned it. Why Apple? Android is so good, so big.
00:36:56
Speaker
The word Android wasn't even there when I was looking at using Apple PC. It was IBM and I love IBM, but IBM is difficult to find today.
00:37:08
Speaker
Apple, good because you pay a lot, but you get quality. I never need to look for a consultant. I never need to bring a technician home. My machines are workhorses that last a lifetime. I have computers I've gifted after 10 years of using them, and people I gifted them to 15 years ago still call and thank me because they're still working. And you never need another human being entering your life. They don't get viruses. They don't break down. They don't crash. They don't infect anybody else.
00:37:36
Speaker
It's just, it's a very safe platform. It's like what I told you, the promise of me giving my diners when they come in COVID times, I'll protect them, give them a safe space. That's what Apple gives. It charges you arm and a leg, but it gives you the safest space to create without any, you know, when you have to save anything on a PC, there are three steps to save it. In an Apple, click done. And you don't have to be a genius. So you have a MacBook, you have a iPhone,
00:38:06
Speaker
I have an iPhone, MacBook, iWatch, all these things. So 100% Apple ecosystem? No, my work environments are all PC because they're cheaper and I regret it because then we have to bring in people to come fix them and
00:38:26
Speaker
were set them up. The couple of places that I had all Mac work environment, we never needed to bring in a consultant or anybody to do anything. I could set it up myself. With PCs, you have to hire somebody that comes, sets up your computer systems and everything. So my brother-in-law is
00:38:45
Speaker
a very, he's a geeky man. He was the head of the Java magazine, one of the founding publishers of it. He's as geeky as they get, as incredible a human being as they get. And he uses only Apple in his personal life. He makes his money, selling PCs and working with them and creating databases and all kinds of things for people.
00:39:06
Speaker
And I said to him, I said, what are you doing? He said, dude, don't I need to make money? I said, yes. He said, so PCs are to make money with. I said, why? He said, impossible for two for everybody, everyday people to understand. So they need people like me and they need to employ us to keep it going. He said, if you have a Mac, you don't need me. He said.
00:39:24
Speaker
He said with a Mac you don't need me, with a PC you need me. He said I keep myself employed by pushing PC, but he uses Macs in his own life. So I would say, you know, you're partially correct. If you would have said this to me five years ago, I would have agreed.
00:39:39
Speaker
But if you are willing to spend the money you spend on your Mac or an iPhone, on a Windows or an Android, you will get similar quality. But what you start comparing is a cheap Android, cheap PC to a Mac, which is not a fair comparison.
00:39:56
Speaker
No, absolutely. You're right. And I'm told that the new Android phones are very good. They also have incredible apps that go with them. And I must say that I've heard people I trust have them, but then they also keep an Apple iPhone for
00:40:13
Speaker
use when they really want to use something else. But you know it's ease. I think you hit the nail on the head. Five years ago it may have been different. I'm being told by people I trust that androids are in some parts of using a phone, androids may be ahead of Mac. So I have to give it to you. I just don't happen to use the androids as phones. I use them as computers, PCs.
00:40:38
Speaker
But you're right, and I have to give it to you that I'm hearing this from others. So I agree. I'm sure you're right, and I may be wrong. No. So there's no right and wrong, but I would love to maybe send you an Android phone, and maybe you can try it out, and maybe you'll turn from an Apple guy to an Android guy.
00:40:57
Speaker
I'm always happy to get again. Okay. Now you talked about apps, right? And I use a lot of apps to explore recipes. I told you I'm an amateur cook and I love to cook for my daughter, my wife. As a professional guy, how do you look at recipes? How do you find new recipes or do you use other chefs recipe as well?
00:41:21
Speaker
So very good question, Akhul. And it's a question that confounds people because the answer is not what a person asking you this question wants to hear. If you love cooking and if you're passionate about it as I am,
00:41:36
Speaker
There is I don't cook with a book. In fact, I have a sign in my kitchen that says I don't cook with a book, even though I've been three cookbooks. My Indian cookbook, the first one, Indian home cooking is the largest sold Indian cookbook published in America. So that said, I don't cook with a book.
00:41:55
Speaker
I don't follow apps and I'm in an app called Panner which was bought by National Geographic which was bought by the Food Network in America and I'm told my recipes in Panner some of the best-selling recipes ever published. I think apps today are doing a great job. I see the New York Times has an incredible food app that I have friends of mine who are
00:42:19
Speaker
cooking handicapped are loving because it just makes everything easy. I think technology has a brilliant role to play in the transformation of a person from being a reluctant cook to being an avid cook because it can help you with
00:42:36
Speaker
your fears, it can get you organized, it can give you recipes with searches that are attuned to what you want to find in them. So technology is a brilliant thing. And then with YouTube channels that some chefs have created, there is now no excuse to not be willing to go into the kitchen if you have a desire because there's information out there for everybody and present it in the way you want to see it.
00:43:04
Speaker
So technology has made cooking very easy and it makes it very doable and accessible and readily easy. So I think technology has played a beautiful role in making food ecumenical and ready for the masses to explore.
Cooking Without Recipes
00:43:19
Speaker
No, so how do you do it? I do it from my head.
00:43:22
Speaker
So you never do recipes from other chefs? I do. So I'll tell you what happens, Naqul. When I dine out, which used to be in the US several times a week, I'm eating at the restaurants of friends, of strangers, with people. I know that this is a good restaurant. I'll go. If you are a human being with a brain, if you're a human being who's not living in a vacuum, you are trained and taught and educated every day.
00:43:53
Speaker
Every meal you eat, every conversation you're listening to between two people discussing food, your brain is taking in information all the time. So if I have an apple in my kitchen staring at me, and I'm thinking, do something with me, it could be that the night before I was with friends who said they ate a lovely tat-tata, and my brain triggers tat-tata, so I go make a tat-tata.
00:44:18
Speaker
Where did I learn how to make a tartan? I was reading a magazine once and there was a recipe for it. My brain put it deep down in a shelf in my brain and that recipe comes alive. And 27 years of experience teaches me how to do it correctly. Or I'll call a friend and say, have you made a tartan before? This is what I was going to do. And that friend will say, no Sivir, you may be wrong. The pastry should be a pat sukre, not a past pastry. So these are the conversations that happen. And I had nothing I make.
00:44:47
Speaker
comes out of a vacuum. In fact, my book set a standard in publishing, as we know it around the world today, even my first book came out Indian Home Cooking, there was no other cookbook like that in the world, because each recipe came with a story as to how I got to that recipe. And it was so-and-so auntie and so-and-so Khan Sama and so-and-so Maharaj and so-and-so street vendor, because my memories of these foods made me do them, cook them.
00:45:16
Speaker
So I think everything I've cooked ever has a connection to people, to elders, to chefs, to restaurants, to travels. And I'm lucky that I've traveled endlessly. I've eaten hungrily. I've eaten at the best restaurants in the world. I've eaten at the dirtiest street corners of the world. And I've lived with open eyes and hungry mouth. So I've eaten beautifully, very richly.
00:45:43
Speaker
And all of that informs my cooking and it comes out in different ways at different times. I know we discussed this before the show also, but I wanted to get your views again on this. You and me talked about all the cooking reality shows, the Indian one, the Australian one, the US ones, everybody has their own flavor.
00:46:04
Speaker
But you told me they are not real. If any reality TV review, do you really think people fling things at each other, that people hide things from one another? Would you want a beast as a friend? It's entertainment. Reality TV is entertainment. And when you look at it as that, gain from it what you want, be inspired by it, be cognizant of the fact that it's called reality, but it has nothing to do with reality.
00:46:34
Speaker
the only thing reality about it is that it's going to change your reality as a human being. You can either be smart enough to know that it's not reality but it's entertainment and then be inspired by it and go and change your reality by doing things that you think are correct or you can be sitting on a sofa eating popcorn and watching somebody make a ten thousand dollar a person meal and you're still watching it because your life is never changing just as the reality of that
00:46:59
Speaker
show is unreal. So you can keep eating your popcorn and they'll keep making bullshit on TV. You're both happy. One person is making money while you eat popcorn. So the reality of both doesn't change. When I was on Top Chef Masters season three in America, when the review of the show came out in the TV examiner, the magazine paper for the TV industry, the headline for the show's review said, Top Chef Masters season three, the star of Suede Saran is born.
00:47:29
Speaker
And they said in the entire show, they found me the most compelling chef because they said he knows he's on a reality TV show, he's not cooking for real time. That I understood that all of these challenges were just a lot of BS. That they said he doesn't take it too seriously because he knows this is just a time warp. It's entertainment for others. It doesn't change his life. So before we end the show, I have just two more questions.
00:47:57
Speaker
My first question is that if I'm a young chef in India and I want to showcase my work to you, how do I approach you? You approach me by going to my website, suvait.com and sending me an email. You come to my restaurant and say you want to meet the chef. You go to a book event or a public event where you know I'm there and show up and talk to me.
00:48:26
Speaker
Or Chancellor, if you do enough search for me, my US cell phone is available in many websites. And if you call me, it still rings in India. You can talk to me. And I'm always available my email address.
00:48:42
Speaker
is chef at sousvir.com. It will come to my phone. I'm known to answer emails that come at 2.30 in the morning that those that come at nine in the morning and the ones in between. And if you reach out to me, I'm happy to be there for you because I was a lucky man that doors would open for me because people were kind and generous to me. And I feel it's my obligation to return the same
00:49:10
Speaker
a favor to people who come reaching out to me. OK. And to all young chefs in the country, I think this is a great opportunity for you to talk to Suveer, meet Suveer, maybe get him to try your dishes.
Favorite Indian Restaurants
00:49:26
Speaker
And you don't know. Maybe you'll land up in the house of Celeste. And this is now a more controversial one, because no answer will satisfy people. But give me your top three restaurants of India.
00:49:40
Speaker
top three restaurants of India. I would have to think of my top three bhuas, mausis, and chachis in their homes. But you're going to kill me if I say that. What do I say? I love the Bengali sweet house for their Alutiki chart.
00:50:02
Speaker
I love qualities for Chanavaturas every now and again. And even Sitaram has amazing Chanavaturas. I love Mistry Doi from Gopala, Rascula's from Gopala. But jokes aside, I love what Ru is doing in the Kuthubon clave. We looked in that area.
00:50:29
Speaker
They've done wonderful stuff for Indian cuisine. It's Indian food with the right attitude and flavor profile and presentation. It's correct for this time and age. Indian accent is doing a good job, I think, at what's the name in Gurgaon. Comerin. Comerin is
00:50:54
Speaker
I love Comerin. I love Comerin. Comerin is doing a wonderful job. I love Olives, it's always good. There's an Italian restaurant in M block market that's not diva.
00:51:14
Speaker
I'm forgetting the name. It's a man who's, I'm told, very meticulous about his foods and it's expensive, it's often empty, but they don't compromise. Their Italian food is what you'll find in Italy. I'm forgetting the name. My memory is failing me. That's divine Italian food.
00:51:33
Speaker
And there's, of course, Sagar, I love for everyday simple North Indian Sambar and Idli and Dosa, it's excellent. I love Swagat for non-Sambar and Idli South Indian food.
00:51:50
Speaker
There are many, but I think India is in a very exciting place where we have so much good stuff happening that we just have to scratch and there are places opening. The Jammu was doing a good job in Delhi. The Diva Cafe was good. So many people are doing such a good job.
00:52:11
Speaker
difficult to picture have you tried r2c r2c r2c is what i'm talking about yes r2c that's the one i was talking about it's superb superb i can't say enough good things about r2c you know what i love so food aside i love their service man look they are so warm i i i've never felt so warm in a restaurant see there you go and i said that they're very good they're not always too busy but they're always correct
00:52:38
Speaker
I remember I took my child and she's just four years old. And it was supposed to be a romantic dinner between me and my wife. But the way they treated my kid, they made special stuff for her, which was not in the menu. And you don't really expect that from a fine dining. And they did a lot of things with me. I went crazy. It's my favorite dining experience in Delhi. It's R2C.
00:53:05
Speaker
That's what I told you but I didn't wasn't remembering the name. They're in M block market and they're in Gurgaon. They're doing superb food. I think Aatuzi is the way we have to go because they don't compromise on their standards, on their quality. They're giving delicious food in a good setting and with great service. How can you go wrong? It's wonderful. Aatuzi is wonderful.
00:53:28
Speaker
Okay, it was awesome talking to you. I hope you had a good time and listeners, I hope you had a great time listening to Saveer. I had a bunch of fun and thanks a lot Saveer for joining us and spending time with us and you know, just taking through your journey. I loved it. I got upgraded. No, thank you very much, Nakul, for having me on your podcast and thank you for doing this and I am honored to be included.
00:53:59
Speaker
So guys, upgrade your truck. You will be listening to Update with Knuckles, a production of the 14-ton team. Don't forget to like and subscribe.