Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 53: Melissa Jill - Transforming a Boutique Wedding Business to 3 Businesses and 5 Streams of Income
142 Plays5 years ago
Today we are chatting with photographer and entrepreneur Melissa Jill. Melissa, impressively runs 3 different businesses with 5 income streams. Much of what we talk about today is how she was able to build and manage all these different businesses through outsourcing and hiring a team.
We also get to hear about how she started her latest business—an album design company called Align, which we’ve actually used and highly recommend to others. We end the episode with a brief conversation about some of Melissa’s best tips for effectively selling albums. Even if you’re not a photographer, I think you’ll find this conversation helpful as you think through ways you can optimize your customers’ value.
Melissa Jill is an internationally recognized Phoenix-based wedding photographer who has been shooting weddings for 16 years. She photographs 10-15 high-end weddings a year and also has 4 associate photographers who shoot weddings under her brand at lower price points. Over the years, she has developed an extensive database of free information for photographers on her blog. She also mentors photographers one-on-one. She started an album design company called Align Album Design years ago that helps photographers world-wide streamline their album workflow and increase their profit. She is passionate about business, has worked hard to maximize the efficiency and profitability of her studio, and loves helping other photographers do the same.
Check out the show notes at https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-melissa-jill-episode-53/ for additional resources.
Recommended
Transcript
Why Outsource?
00:00:05
Speaker
So think about the things that you don't enjoy doing and the things that take up the most of your time. I would say those are the two criteria that you really need to look at initially. And I think there's some obvious things to outsource right away in business. Welcome to The Brands That Book Show, where we help creative service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients.
Meet Melissa Jill
00:00:31
Speaker
I'm your host, Davy Jones.
00:00:38
Speaker
Today we are chatting with photographer and entrepreneur Melissa Jill. Melissa impressively runs three businesses with five different income streams. And much of what we talk about today is how she was able to build and manage all these different businesses through outsourcing and hiring a team.
00:00:55
Speaker
We also get to hear about how she started her latest business, an album design company called Align, which we've actually used and highly recommend to others. We end the episode with a brief conversation about someone Melissa's best tips for effectively selling albums. Even if you're not a photographer, I think you'll find this conversation helpful as you think through ways that you can optimize your own customer's value.
00:01:18
Speaker
Be sure to check out the show notes at DavyAndCrista.com for the resources we mentioned during the episode, and I'd like to hear from you about what kind of content you'd like to see on the Brans2Book podcast as we move forward. I'd also like to know what episodes have you enjoyed most so far and why. To leave your feedback, head on over to the DavyAndCrista Facebook page and send us a message.
Melissa's Entrepreneur Journey
00:01:37
Speaker
Now, on to the episode.
00:01:41
Speaker
All right, I'm here today with Melissa Jill. Melissa has three businesses to talk about. So if you're if you're sitting there thinking you're trying to get one business off the ground, and you have just so much to do, and you're not sure how to do it all. Melissa has three businesses, five streams of income. And that's a lot of what we're talking about today is, you know, how she's able to get a lot of that kind of stuff done, you know, just to make it work. Because I think some of us have a hard time wrapping our head around whatever the one businesses that we're running. But welcome, Melissa.
00:02:11
Speaker
Thank you so much, Davey. It's great to be here. Yeah, I'm really excited to start chatting about a number of things. One, diving into your entrepreneurial story, because I just think it's fascinating. And, you know, we use one of your businesses and it's been, well, I guess one of my greatest regrets in our business is that we didn't start using a line album company, which is one of your businesses earlier, you know, and in part, I'm not sure when it started.
00:02:36
Speaker
But we started using it towards the end. And we'll get into what all that is. But when we started using it, we were like, why have we been trying to do this on our own? It was just so incredible. Anne, you're a starter. You've been in business for, we were just talking before the show here, 16 years, and you said you started something almost every two years. So take us back. Where did things start for you? How did you get this entrepreneurial bug?
00:03:06
Speaker
That's a great question. I mean, I never took a business class in my life. I didn't really know I was an entrepreneur. I guess looking back on my childhood, I like always wrangled like the neighborhood kids to do different things. And then I just like kept money. So I was, I was always a leader in that way, but I didn't realize that I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I just love photography. And I think that's most of our stories, right? You know,
00:03:33
Speaker
We love the photography side of things, and then we figure out how to be a business owner and how to be an entrepreneur. And thankfully, once I got into it, I realized I actually really like the business side of things. And so that was a huge blessing. And so the more I learned, of course, you know, as an entrepreneur, you just have so many ideas, and that doesn't mean you should always execute on all those ideas, but I ended up doing so, you know, pretty much every two years. So I started my business in
00:04:02
Speaker
2003 and let me just caveat this by saying at no time did I really know what I was doing when I started something new. Every single time I started something new, I really didn't know what I was doing and I had no idea how big of a bite I was biting off.
00:04:21
Speaker
Until I got into it, did I realize, wow, this is a big undertaking. Started my business in 2003.
Birth of Align Album Design
00:04:29
Speaker
I was able to go full time in 2004, which was awesome. The economy was doing really well then. In 2006, I started blogging, kind of around the time blogging started. Again, had no idea what I was doing. I was just like, I guess I'm supposed to do this. I came home from WPPI, and I was like, I'm going to start a blog.
00:04:47
Speaker
Started teaching workshops in 2008 as a result of blogging because I had photographers following me and were interested in learning. So did workshops for many years after that and then started my associate photographer program in 2010. So I have a team of four associates that shoe weddings for my business at lower price points.
00:05:08
Speaker
And then in 2012, I decided, let's start another business. I started Align Album Design to help other photographers with their album workflow and albums are just something I'm really passionate about. So we'd love to talk more about that.
00:05:25
Speaker
I started that seven years ago in two thousand twelve in two and this is the thing i wish i wish you said like two thousand because that means that we spent four years. Do you know try to put your own albums and revisions and handling all that when we could have just been outsourcing it to you.
00:05:41
Speaker
I think the last year we were shooting, we outsourced all our album design to you and it was never easier, nor was it ever that profitable because I think it just cut down on the time that we had to spend on it. I'm jumping ahead here. I want to go back to and talk a little bit about your associate program and just how you decided to add an associate program to your business. What was it that made you decide to go that route?
00:06:04
Speaker
Well, there was two things. I was getting a lot of inquiries from brides saying, I love your style, but I can't afford you. Who would you recommend? And so I was referring out to a lot of other photographers in my area, but I also was really well-networked in my area. And I had a lot of relationships with photographers who love the photography side, but not the business side. And they weren't excelling at their own businesses. So just the two of those things kind of came together and I realized, you know, I could,
00:06:33
Speaker
use some of these photographers who just love the photography side of things to work for me and to shoot weddings and do something they love and then make use of these leads that I had worked hard to generate through my brand.
00:06:48
Speaker
It was just something that kind of made sense and came together I had the right people and I think that's key for an associate team or any team of any kind is the right people are so key so it's like don't do it if you don't have the right people you know cuz I mean they're representing your business but I just have been blessed and had the right people and it's been a great thing to add to our offerings.
00:07:12
Speaker
Yeah, you know, when we were shooting about the idea of an associate program, but just assumed wrongly that everybody was like us, you know, everybody liked running the business to, you know, so he would just want to come shoot for us. But looking back would have been a great way to scale a business.
Scaling Through Team Building
00:07:26
Speaker
And I think when people think of scaling, they think, Oh, I have to have some sort of digital product that, you know, I sell, but there's other ways to grow your business, you know, one through.
00:07:34
Speaker
hiring a team. And that's something that we fortunately learned within Davey and Krista, you know, the web design and branding business that has really allowed us to grow that. So really interesting. Again, just hearing your story, I feel like you started things so much earlier, like blogging in 2006, you know, like, I don't know, really, many people at all who are blogging back in 2006, you know, I hear a lot of bloggers popping up 2008, 2009, you know, even starting associate programs, I feel like that's something that's kind of making a resurgence people understanding kind of the value of
00:08:04
Speaker
uh starting a team and here you were back in uh two thousand and ten doing that right and then we get to two thousand and twelve and i want to talk a little bit about a line so tell us a little bit more about what a line is and how you realize that there was a market for it.
00:08:20
Speaker
Yeah. Well, people started asking me actually, cause I was sharing my albums, my album design on my blog and people were like, will you, would you start an album design company? I don't want to do this anymore. I was also selling album design templates at the time. So people were asking me and initially when people asked me that I was like, just because I can start this doesn't mean I should, you know, like I don't think I should do everything that I could possibly do because obviously.
00:08:46
Speaker
time is our finite resource. We don't have time to do it all. But the more I thought about it, it just felt like a good fit for me. And again, I thought it would be a fairly simple thing to start and not a big undertaking. But it turns out it's like,
00:09:01
Speaker
a huge undertaking you know but i think what when you get into something and you just do the thing that you know you're supposed to do next the rest is revealed you know and so you just kinda take one step at a time and that's kinda been my journey has been very organic like that kinda figuring out things as i go and so i launched this company and i have album designers that do the album design itself that was key as well
00:09:26
Speaker
And they're amazing so again building another team of contractors that are working for me. And they're all just really great was key and then building like a really robust website was key as well for this business it's all online based we serve photographers worldwide we do the layout of their albums.
00:09:48
Speaker
We do all the revision. Part of the reason I started it is because I am so passionate about my clients having albums, and I wanted to help other photographers succeed at albums. So I started it just as an outsourcing company, but it's grown into more of an education platform and resource as well. We want to help photographers start selling albums and to sell albums well.
00:10:12
Speaker
And so, like I said, we can kind of take over the whole workflow from initial design, revisions, and even communicating with your clients if
Outsourcing for Better Client Experience
00:10:20
Speaker
you want. So our goal is to kind of be a part of your team and to feel to your clients and to yourself as kind of your own in-house album designer, you know, part of your team. And so we try and make things super simple.
00:10:36
Speaker
And I'm excited to hear that you guys have had such a great experience and found it super easy. But we charge $8 a spread. It's just a flat fee that includes three rounds of revisions. We can design for any album company out there, but we also offer our own line of in-house book, custom books called Align Legacy Books. So you can kind of get
00:10:57
Speaker
everything done in one place if you'd like as well. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I thought the experience was great. And that's important for sure. You know, anytime you outsource something, but then even beyond that, kind of recognizing the profitability again, behind album design, once the actual nitty gritty of design was off of my plate, you know, and just the improvement, I think on the client experience. And you know, the clients were super happy with what they were getting. And I think as a result, you know, all of a sudden, it was easier to sell duplicate parent albums. So
00:11:26
Speaker
I thought from that standpoint, I just wish that we had taken that off of our plate altogether years before we actually did because I just think that there was probably so much more money to be made there than ultimately I think what we did while we were shooting. But tell us a little bit about what the experience looks like for a photographer who's using a line. How do you manage your visions and stuff like that?
00:11:50
Speaker
Yeah, so we do the initial design in four business days or less, usually in two. And you fill out a simple online order form, send us your images, and you get a beautiful layout. And then, like I said, you get the three rounds of revisions. Typically, photographers will use one of those rounds to kind of make a few adjustments themselves.
00:12:10
Speaker
before they send it on to their clients and then they'll give their clients two rounds to make changes as well. We have a hands off service which is just $10 per order and basically that allows us to communicate directly with your client as your album designer and we don't put any of our branding on anything so they don't even have to know.
00:12:30
Speaker
that you're outsourcing your logos on everything. We just put our name as your album designer on emails, that kind of thing. So we want to make it really about making you look like a rock star to your clients. You know, like we want you to have fast turnaround times. We want you to have beautiful designs. We want your clients to feel like they're having a custom experience and that their hand is being kind of held through the process because it can be a very overwhelming
00:12:57
Speaker
Experience for a bride and groom to figure out what what images and how they want that laid out and that kind of thing and
00:13:04
Speaker
I think for photographers, we can do a design ourselves, you know, with the software that's out there nowadays and you can figure out how to put together an album ourselves. But when you get to the revision process, that's the big, big issue, right? Cause your client gets back to you at the worst, most inconvenient time with a huge list of revisions and you're off shooting and then your service isn't good. So you're not getting back to them. And the unfortunate thing is this is the end of their experience with you. And if you leave them with,
00:13:34
Speaker
a poor taste in their mouth, you could lose what was once rave review. So this is just a way to continue to care for your client through the entire experience and leave them raving about you.
00:13:46
Speaker
And I think a way not to let album design get to be a year out, you know, I think that was something that we struggled with really early on was we finished the wedding, we deliver the images and then a year later, it's like, hey, I'm ready to design my album, you know, and then that process takes, you know, another couple months. So obviously, we're big fans and we've used a line before. So if you're a photographer and you're looking to get something off your plate,
00:14:09
Speaker
I think this is a great place to kind of dip your toe in the water as far as outsourcing goes I think and really understanding how valuable that can be. And maybe this is a good segue because I want to talk about and I've just noticed it kind of as a theme throughout your business in starting a team for your photography business then starting a team for a line. You've just seemed to understand
00:14:32
Speaker
how valuable it can be to outsource. I use outsource loosely because building a team and outsourcing aren't necessarily the same things, but I think they provide a related benefit. Outsourcing is something that I think took me way too long.
00:14:47
Speaker
to learn the value of that. But you've been able to get all of these businesses off the ground, I think, because you've sought out building a team, you've probably gotten things off your plate that you don't need. When did you realize that? How did you realize that? What makes you so comfortable with giving things to other people to do? Trust me, at the beginning, I did not feel that way. I had the typical control issues that so many entrepreneurs and photographers have.
00:15:15
Speaker
You know, our businesses are our babies and we don't want anybody else messing them up and it can be scary. So we kind of hold everything close and we do everything ourselves at the beginning. And I think for me, I did everything for my business for one full year that I was full time just doing my photography business. I did everything myself. And then I realized, especially like the editing, it was just so much. And so I actually hired somebody
00:15:44
Speaker
part-time just to help me with editing like after that first full year in business and that was all that she did and I think just taking that one step and having it succeed and seeing the benefit of it really opened my eyes to like wow this is the only way to really grow a business and succeed and so it was that sense of freedom that I had and
00:16:09
Speaker
to be able to work on the business rather than just in the business feeling burnt out, exhausted, like I could never get ahead. And having that freedom and realizing the benefit of it really accelerated me into getting more and more things off my plate and figuring out how to do that well and to find the right people to help me with that. And I think that's key, you know, just because
00:16:36
Speaker
you can do something doesn't mean that you should. And I think the most successful people outsource nearly everything that doesn't play to their strengths or that they simply don't have to do themselves. One of the books I read early on is the E-Myth Revisited, Why Most Small Businesses Fail, Why They Don't Work and What to Do About It by Michael Gerber. I just highly recommend it. And he talks about kind of how there's two different types of entrepreneurs
00:17:04
Speaker
There's people that really have a savings on cost you know mindset and there these are the people that want to do everything and control everything but really what this results in is burnout and ultimately in business failure because you can't do it all and you end up just working in your business rather than on it. The second type of person you know realizes
00:17:25
Speaker
that they can grow through delegation and they can increase their profit that way. And so letting go of some things that you don't have to do.
00:17:35
Speaker
allows you to focus on what you alone can do. And then just hiring and partnering with the people that maybe can do things better than you can. Yeah, we're all experts at photography, but are we all experts at album design? Is that what we're created to do? I don't think so. And even if you enjoy doing it, it doesn't mean you should do it.
Overcoming Outsourcing Fears
00:17:58
Speaker
I think there's some obvious things that are just huge time sucks.
00:18:02
Speaker
that if you could get those off your plate, you can focus on the bigger picture of the business and doing the things like visioning, networking, marketing, branding tasks, scaling, starting new ventures, those kinds of things that you really need to do in order to scale and to grow and to see real success over time.
00:18:25
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think I admit that I was probably that first person for way too long. Krista would probably call me out and just say, Hey, really, you still are because she's, she's become a lot better in learning how to delegate effectively and, you know, train up even the people around her to take on some tasks that that don't need to be on her plate anymore. And she still communicates with all our clients. She still has a very primary role in the design process. But there's just things that she doesn't need to do. And as a result, now, she's been able to help
00:18:53
Speaker
especially with some bigger picture projects, but then products in the palm shop templates, stuff like that, that really allow us to grow and scale our business more. And so, well, and I think that's a good point that bears emphasizing that you kind of pointed out is outsourcing and delegating doesn't mean that you completely lose control, right? Sure. You still have your hand in the client experience, you know, you still can be putting that personal touch, you still can be
00:19:20
Speaker
creating an experience that reflects your brand and your aesthetic. Even if you're doing something like outsourcing editing or album design, those can still be highly representative of your style and your aesthetic and what you want your client experience to be if you partner with the right people and you just fine tune it to be what you want it to be.
00:19:43
Speaker
And so i think that's a good point that you mentioned it doesn't have to be that scary you know i can just be free and it can still be very cohesive experience and products and service for your clients.
00:19:57
Speaker
I'd say even in many ways, the client experience is better because she has more time to devote to it and more time to pay attention to some of the details that would likely fall through the cracks. I don't know if you found this, Brett, when you brought on an editor, but there was sort of, at least for us, I felt like there was a one step back, two steps forward in that initial phase of bringing somebody on. Just it took us at least a little bit of time to get people trained, get systems in place. But I think that once you do, things really sort of take off from there.
00:20:26
Speaker
Absolutely, yeah. And you know, I've hired, I mean, that's a total other topic, but I think I've hired seven or eight office managers over the course of my whole journey. So I have had a lot of experience finding and training people. And obviously I've found that it's worth it, but you do have to find the right person and then you do have to spend time training them. And I think there's a couple things with that, like sitting down with them and training them in a something subjective on how you would do it is key.
00:20:56
Speaker
and then allowing them to do it on their own and then giving them feedback, not expecting somebody to get it right away, but expecting them to be teachable and to see progress. And then kind of
Outsourcing in Personal Life
00:21:09
Speaker
going back and forth, helping to tweak and fine tune and help train them. But then there's a point, and this is just truth telling to those of us who are perfectionists, we just need to let go. You know what I mean?
00:21:22
Speaker
There's perfection and then there's good enough. And I'm not saying that we settle for mediocre. I'm just saying the distance between good enough and perfect is not something that your client is going to notice. It's only something that you care about and it's ultimately selfish of you. You know what I mean? And so getting it to a point where it is good
00:21:46
Speaker
And it is something that you're happy to have represent you but not feeling like it has to be perfect. You need to be able to let go and just move on with your life and focus on other things. For sure. Done is better than perfect. I will say that that's still probably one of those things that I struggle with.
00:22:04
Speaker
like Chris is way better at this and she's the one that usually just kind of pushes me over the ledge when I'm kind of stalled out there saying, but if we just tweak this or that. So this is kind of like therapy for me. I get to talk to all sorts of incredible professionals like yourself who have mastered this and then it gets me all kind of jacked up to be better at it. So,
00:22:27
Speaker
I would love to hear about some things that you think are easy things that people, I mean, I know you mentioned editing for photographers, some things that you think are easy things that people might be able to get off their plate. And again, get started with maybe freeing up their time so that they can focus on tasks that are actually going to move their business forward, not just working in the business tasks.
00:22:48
Speaker
Yeah, so think about the things that you don't enjoy doing and the things that take up the most of your time. I would say those are the two criteria that you really need to look at initially. And I think there's some obvious things to outsource right away in business, something like accounting.
00:23:05
Speaker
I mean, there's a reason people get a degree in accounting, right? Don't do your own taxes. Get somebody to do that. I would say, you know, as far as something that's a huge time suck editing and color correcting would be another obvious choice early on. And I'm not saying like, for me, I still have a hand in that. I call all my own wedding images. And then my favorite images, which is about 80 to 100 images from an event, I still color correct those. I still make those perfect. And so
00:23:35
Speaker
I allow myself kind of that ability to be a perfectionist with my very favorite images and then the remainder of them, I have my office manager or an outside company color correct. And then I have, again, outsourced everything that my associates do. So that's one way that you could do that. I think you want to look also at your personal life. You know, I outsource my house cleaning. I just don't think that that's a good use of my time as a business owner.
00:24:03
Speaker
You have to think about your time. It's finite. And you can use your time that's finite to create something that is not finite, which is money. So if you can spend your time making more money than you would pay somebody to clean your house, that's a wise thing to do, as long as you're diligent to actually use that time to grow your business and to make money.
00:24:26
Speaker
I will say that Krista also found somebody to clean our house and it was maybe one of the best things to happen in our marriage. And it's not that I didn't help with the house cleaning, but she's kind of next level with just keeping things clean. No dishes at any time can ever be in the sink. Vacuuming is an everyday thing. It's not like a once or twice a week thing.
00:24:49
Speaker
So, she's just on a different level than I am. And she had mentioned getting somebody in there before and I kind of push back like, hey, this is just something, you know, we pick up as we go, like, do we really have to do it? But I'll tell you, it's been incredible. It's life changing. Exactly. You know, one of my good friends, Matt Schmoyer, his wife, Kat, runs Creative at Heart, and she's been on the podcast as well. He was talking to me about it because they were looking and he was pushing back. I was like, dude,
00:25:14
Speaker
just let it happen. This is going to be so good for your marriage. But anyways, sorry, a little side note about that. For any guys listening out there, it's worth it. But like you said, you just have to do it once and have a completely clean house and a happy wife to realize it's a good call. Yeah, definitely something worth investing in if you're looking to get some personal stuff off your shoulders.
00:25:40
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, there's other obvious things, maybe website design and programming, you know, I mean, there are do it yourself things, but you can also bring people in to do that. And it looks so much better than if you do it yourself, you know, there's things like sending images to vendors, I think is a huge missed opportunity for photographers. And it's something they just
00:26:02
Speaker
don't ever get to, but if you have somebody do that consistently as part of your workflow, that alone could drive your inquiries and your referrals. I have so many planners, I can't tell you who say no other photographers consistently send me images. It's like pulling teeth to get them from them and it's like we have what they need.
00:26:25
Speaker
If that's something that could really drive your business and your bookings, make it happen and systematize it somehow. If it's something that you're not getting around to, ask somebody else to do it for you. It's a simple
The Power of Delegation
00:26:37
Speaker
task. I think all these add up. They're probably the $15, $20 an hour task that you could
00:26:45
Speaker
Absolutely. You could bundle together and somebody could could outsource I assume that I'm not sure exactly what your office manager does specifically but a lot of what you've just mentioned, you know, could probably fall under a role. I have a full time office manager and I have had for maybe eight or nine years now. I had part time before that. And you know, it was scary because I was like, how am I ever going to have enough for them to do but it's amazing once you start listing it out and once you start
00:27:14
Speaker
passing things off, how much you can fill up somebody else's time and free yourself up to do things that really grow the business in the bottom line. Do you think that if you didn't give up these tasks, would you be able to run these three businesses that you have on your own?
00:27:32
Speaker
Absolutely not. I mean, there's just no way. At this point, I've just grown everything to the point where I'm definitely reliant on other people. And that, even though I know that probably sounds scary to the people that are listening, it's not once you have
00:27:48
Speaker
a team like that's coming to you with ideas that you would never have thought of yourself and and they're doing things so well that that you have to go back to them and learn what their job is. You know what I mean? It's it's really a cool thing when your business kind of takes on.
00:28:06
Speaker
that kind of life of its own where there's an expert that's working alongside of you who's just an expert at what they do and you trained them initially but now they're like way better than you would be at that task, you know what I mean? Because you've just not done it for so long and they're in it and they're always thinking about how to make it better and it's really a cool thing.
00:28:26
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. Kind of experiencing that a little bit right now with one of our designers, Alex, I mean, him been working on some speed optimization stuff, you know, and he's gotten into the nitty gritty of it. And so while I kind of started, and I feel like I was showing him some stuff initially, all of a sudden, it's like, you know, he's sending me stuff, and I don't even understand what I'm like, can you what would you do? What'd you do? You know, it's so funny. I mean, I started a line
00:28:51
Speaker
And I wrote the 70 page manual for every single system of the business. And then I trained, you know, I did the general manager job for a couple years and then I hired somebody to do it, trained her on it. She continued to develop the manual to where it's now like 150 or 200 pages, you know, she kind of manages the designers. And then she goes on vacation and I have to learn how to do her job now. You know what I mean?
00:29:20
Speaker
It's kind of a crazy thing and people are just like raving about her and how detail oriented and helpful she is. And I'm like, oh, I don't want to mess this up covering for her. Yeah. And that's also I do think it goes back to finding the right people to for sure. You know, I know
00:29:39
Speaker
all of our team members, I think they do a really good job of like, if there's a question, they'll do their best at kind of figuring it out on their own first, you know, they can always come to us, of course, and ask. But you know, I think that's one thing I admire about them is they'll try to figure out an issue on their own. They'll come back maybe with a couple different options on how we can tackle that issue. But you know, I think that kind of thing goes a long way. Finding a team member when outsourcing or whatnot. But yeah, I would love to chat a little bit to about one more note about outsourcing.
00:30:09
Speaker
you know, in talking to you, you know, running three businesses, five streams of income. And you've said you couldn't do this without delegating other tasks, whether that's via outsourcing or building a team. And I think that's true of, as I think through most of my guests, pretty much anybody I know who's running a thriving business,
00:30:27
Speaker
Every single one of them outsources and has, you know, I would say at least a VA, you know, at least some sort of assistant who takes care of some of these other tasks. And so if you're listening, and you're just rounding in your in your business, look around, I just, you know, the more I look, the more I realize, like, people aren't doing it all on their own.
00:30:47
Speaker
Absolutely. So I think there's just a lot of value in getting over the sphere. And like I've said repeatedly, wish I did a lot sooner than I did.
Boosting Album Sales
00:30:56
Speaker
But I do want to transition here and talk a little bit about album sales. I know this is something that you're passionate about. We have a lot of photographers who listen to the show here. And so I would love to talk about tips for how they might sell more albums, how they might sell albums more effectively.
00:31:11
Speaker
And even if you're not a photographer and you're listening, I think that there's still a lot of value in listening to how other industries optimize customer value, you know, how they take current customers and make more money. But I would love to hear what are your best album tips for people?
00:31:28
Speaker
I could go on and on about this, so I'll just start with some and you can cut me off when we're out of time. Yeah, that's a really broad question. I feel like this could be the whole episode. This is my field of expertise and we've got so much content on Align Album Designs blogs, so definitely check that out if you're interested. I'm also doing a lot of insta-storing over on our Instagram account with a lot of free tips.
00:31:52
Speaker
Align album design as our Instagram so check that out but I guess what I would say for those of you who are maybe listening who are not currently selling albums if you are not start just start now I mean it's one of those things like Davies kind of talked about wishing he had you talked about kind of wishing you had outsourced.
00:32:12
Speaker
You're going to look back and wish that you had started selling albums earlier on. I mean, think about how many sessions or weddings you have this year and multiply that by about $1,000 just for a nice round number. That's how much money you're missing out on. You know what I mean? And so many of us as photographers and especially those who are starting out, they're so fixated on getting new clients.
00:32:34
Speaker
that they miss out on the fact that it's way easier to optimize and grow their profit from existing clients. You already have those clients. So if you can just offer them more, offer them something that they could really benefit from, it's so much easier to grow your business and your profit line. So my number one tip for selling albums is to sell albums with passion.
00:33:00
Speaker
I think a lot of photographers will say, and this is an excuse I've heard from photographers who are not currently selling albums. They'll say, well, I just don't think my clients are interested in them. But the real truth is you're not interested in them and you're not communicating about them. And so they don't even know what they're missing out on, you know? And so your clients are going to be a reflection of you and kind of what you're excited about. And so you can't sell something that you aren't excited about yourself. And so,
00:33:30
Speaker
Figure out if you are passionate about albums and if you're not, you know, that's fine, but I want my clients to walk away.
00:33:38
Speaker
with an album. That is the number one product I want them to have. And so I position my albums in that way. I position them at the number one product. I talk about them. I include them in every package. I have a space on my website to show them off and talk about them. I share all the album designs and albums that are finished to show people what they could have and what other clients are receiving.
00:34:01
Speaker
And then share my passion about them during the initial client meeting. I have beautiful sample albums that I keep updated. And the reality is you can't sell something in the service-based industry without showing them. And so having a beautiful sample album is key. If you're meeting people long distance, maybe virtually over Skype or FaceTime, you can still show them the albums.
00:34:27
Speaker
have a space on your website to show off the albums. And I have so many stories of people who came in to meet with me who didn't really even plan to spend money on an album. And they walked out of the meeting with a $3,000 album in their package because they just couldn't live without it once they saw it. So that would be my number one tip is kind of look at your business, figure out how to position albums as your number one product, figure out how to share your passion for them with
00:34:56
Speaker
you know, a personal story, I think works really well. Yeah, I would just encourage people to challenge their assumptions kind of like you mentioned, I think that was our issue early on when we started our photography business was we just said, well, we give people the digital images, why would they want to spend $1,000 on an album, but it turns out
00:35:14
Speaker
people really do want to spend money on an album because it's this tangible product of the service that we are providing them and I think I'll say it, I guess a little bit more flat out, it's not that your customers probably don't want albums, it's just that maybe you're scared of selling or maybe you just don't want to do it. I just think that everybody would prefer something tangible in front of them that they can hold and see instead of images that live on a phone or a computer
00:35:40
Speaker
Absolutely. We're just not serving our clients well if they just end up with an online gallery or thumb drive. When are they ever looking at those images? An album is a custom product they can't do themselves. We're supposed to be the service provider providing that type of a product. An heirloom, I think of an album as your first family heirloom. It's something that you're going to pass on to generations to come. I have clients who tell me,
00:36:10
Speaker
their three year old daughter. It's her favorite book to read, you know, and she's like looking through it and having her parents tell her about the wedding day. I mean, that's just something you can't put a price on, you know, and absolutely if you share that kind of passion and those kinds of stories with your clients, of course they're going to want.
Album Sales Strategies
00:36:27
Speaker
their first family heirloom and of course their wedding day is deserving of something that special. So tactically you mentioned that you included albums in every one of your collections. How are those set up? Is it set up so that we had an album in at least our top two collections? I forget how many spreads it included. But oftentimes people ended up purchasing more spreads than what was included. So how do you organize that and how do you present it to them?
00:36:57
Speaker
Yeah, I like presenting packages because I just think it's an easier way to visually see what you could get. But I do allow people to customize. So if they ultimately want to take the album out, they can. It's not like a make or break thing. If they really need to save money and they need to take that out, they can. But by putting it in there initially, you're kind of showing them this is what you should have.
00:37:21
Speaker
you have to think of yourself as the expert they're not wanting to figure everything out themselves you know and they've never done this before and so when they come to you they're really looking for you to be a guide for them to what they should be getting which they should be including and so i think putting it on all your packages is just a smart thing to do and again like i said they can take it out if they'd like and yeah i think putting um you know a nice entry level album in your initial package that has
00:37:51
Speaker
maybe a minimum number of spreads, you know, 10, 15 spreads. And then what I do during my initial client meeting is I let them know this is what you're getting for this price. But what we typically do is we do design the albums larger than what you ordered just because right now you don't know how many images you're gonna want in your album, you know? And so we design it with what we think are really an ideal number of images to tell the story of the day and every wedding is a little different and you'll get the proof.
00:38:19
Speaker
And then you can decide at that point if you want to narrow down the spreads to just what you included in your package or upgrade for a certain amount per spread. And it's a really great way to cover your design costs because if anybody upgrades, you're covering your design costs right there, right?
00:38:35
Speaker
And it's also just, I think, a great way to serve your clients. As long as you really educate them up front, this is how it's going to happen. Sure. And kind of frame it as a service to them. Everybody kind of nods along and is like, yeah, that makes sense, you know? And so I've had great success with upselling my albums. And I think one of the reasons to upsell is you can maybe get your client to include a thousand fifteen hundred dollar album in their initial package.
00:39:05
Speaker
But what you really want them to have is a three thousand or four thousand dollar album. And that's just something that's very difficult to sell upfront before they see their images. It's much easier to sell that once they are attached those images and see the value of them.
00:39:21
Speaker
and want them in their lives. Were there any ways that people could upgrade beyond spreads? Were there material upgrades, for instance, like going from linen to leather or vice versa? I'm not sure which one. You could do that, but my recommendation, and this is another one of my top recommendations for selling albums well, is to remove obstacles to the sale. And so I think that there's a lot of value in really simplifying your offerings.
00:39:47
Speaker
You know, as photographers, we can kind of geek out on all the options, you know, and kind of over complicate things for our clients. And our clients are really looking like I said, for a guide.
00:39:57
Speaker
I learned this early on when I was years ago when I was remodeling my house and I went to a local brick store and I had so many, you know, remodeling a house is kind of like planning a wedding. You've got so many decisions to make and everything costs way more than you want it to. But I just wanted to go to this brick store, get this brick picked out for my fireplace and just be done with one more thing on my list. But I went in there and the manager
00:40:22
Speaker
was so geeked out on brick like he kept showing me more and more options. My blood pressure kept rising and by the end I walked out of there not purchasing anything because I was so overwhelmed and it really made me realize you know what my clients are going through when they come to a meeting with me and
00:40:40
Speaker
They're not taking time out to come to you just for the fun of it. They actually want to give you their money. And so try to make it as easy as you can on them to give you their money. And so that's why I really recommend simplifying the options. Most clients just want to point to something and pay for it. You know, they want to say I like that sample album and not that one.
00:41:01
Speaker
give them two distinct sample albums to choose from and ask them which one they want. They get to have that type of cover material. They can maybe change the color of it if they want, but it comes with that. It comes exactly like what that one looks like and they're happy. They don't have to know the other options that they're missing out on, you know what I mean? For sure. I guess my recommendation when you're picking what you want to offer is pick what you love.
00:41:26
Speaker
and then offer that to your clients and pick one other thing that you love and offer that to your clients. And then just kind of include everything else as far as it comes with a leather option. It comes with a photo cover, you know, whatever it is that you pick, have it come with that and then just upsell the number of spreads. That would be a recommendation.
00:41:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think one thing that we also did was we would offer duplicate parent albums for some sort of discount because the work of designing is already done.
00:41:57
Speaker
That's super smart. I mean, parent albums are easy because like you said, it's the exact same design. It's just an extra album that you're ordering at the time that you're ordering it. And so you can sell those for discounted price and there's something that clients love to get. Parents love to pay for. Writing rooms love to purchase those for their parents as gifts. So I think that's a no brainer and definitely something.
00:42:21
Speaker
you should include in your offerings. We also found that people who didn't purchase parent albums during the wedding season, we'd follow up with people before like Christmas time. And that was just a really popular gift for parents, you know, because shopping for parents is like the hardest thing to do, you know?
00:42:38
Speaker
We always struggle figuring out what to get, you know, my dad or Chris's parents for Christmas, you know, and so if you just got married parents are generally, you know, I'm just thinking of experiences that I've had like you walk in and parents are showing you pictures of their kids weddings, you know, and there's so much pride in that so I think it becomes a really easy sell around the holidays as people are scrambling to figure out. Yeah, you could run a special around the holidays and sell a bunch of parent albums. That's really smart.
00:43:03
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I know that we could probably go on and on about best tips for album design or just selling albums effectively. But fortunately, you can find more content around this at the Align website, right? Right. Alignalbumdesign.com.
00:43:20
Speaker
Awesome. And again, if you need to take that first step outsourcing, this is a great way to do it. You know, because one, you're just going to breathe a sigh of relief that you don't have to go through the album design process. So it's just going to be worth it. I think on that level, 100%. But I think after going through it, you're going to realize that there's so much potential there as well. Melissa, where else can people follow along?
00:43:41
Speaker
Instagram is where we're at a lot. Align Album Design is our Instagram and we have our blog. We're always sharing tips there. We're sharing
00:43:50
Speaker
our favorite designs, that kind of thing. So those would be the top two places. Okay, awesome. And be sure to visit the show notes. I will link to all of these different places. I'll link to the book that Melissa mentioned earlier in the episode as well. So check that out if you're driving right now or you're running or whenever you're listening to this podcast, and you didn't have an opportunity to jot down notes. Thank you so much for your time, Melissa. Thank you, Davey.
00:44:17
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to dvandchrista.com.