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Blitzed! – a conversation with American Football coach Jay Paterno
13 Plays17 hours ago
Management Learnings from the Sports Field
Jay Paterno was a very successful college American football coach before he became an international sports pundit, writer, and podcast host.
Following the publication of Blitzed! The All-Out Pressure of College Football's New Era, his third book Jay joined Michael Millward on the Abeceder podcast The Independent Minds to discuss the lessons business managers can learn from the world of elite sport,
The obvious thing to learn is that running a sports team with talented elite athletes is very similar to running a talented business team. The difference is in how sports coaches like Jay manage the challenges so that the team performs well each week
They discuss
- Building relationships based on shared values
- Making the correct hiring decisions
- Balancing individual egos with teamwork by turning Me I individuals into We Us people
- Making rewards work
- Managing external influences
- Being a role model to the team
This podcast is essential listening for every manager who are building a team.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencastr. The all-in-one podcasting platform that makes every stage of the podcast production process so easy. Visit the Zencastr link in the description. It has a built-in membership discount.
Business Lessons from Sports with Jay Paterno
00:00:19
Speaker
Hello and welcome to The Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abbasida and people who think outside the box about how work works, with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for everyone.
Insights from 'Blitzed': Pressure in College Football
00:00:35
Speaker
I'm your host, Michael Millward. Today, Jay Paterno and I will be exploring the lessons business managers can learn from successful professional and semi-professional sports teams.
00:00:47
Speaker
Jay is a sports coach and author.
Travel Discounts Mention
00:00:50
Speaker
His most recent book is Blitzed, the all-out pressure of college football's new era. Jay is based in Pennsylvania, United States. I have not visited Pennsylvania, but if I ever am lucky enough to visit... I will be sure to make my travel arrangements at the Ultimate Travel Club because that is where I get trade prices on trains, flights, hotels and holidays, as well as all sorts of other travel-related purchases.
00:01:18
Speaker
You can access those same trade prices on travel by using the link in the description, which has a built-in discount on membership fees.
Purpose of the Podcast: Provoking Thought
00:01:27
Speaker
Now that I've paid the rent, it is time to make an episode of The Independent Minds that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:01:38
Speaker
Very importantly, on The Independent Minds, we don't tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think. Hello Jay. are you doing? I am doing extremely well, thank you very much, and I hope that you can say the
Jay Paterno's Career Journey
00:01:51
Speaker
same. Absolutely. Great. Please tell me a little bit about your sports and coaching career and how you but how did it all start?
00:01:58
Speaker
Well, my father, Joe Paterno, was a longtime football coach at Penn State University, which is one of the top programs in the country and had had great success. you know, his career ended. He was the all time winningest coach in the history of major college football the United States. So it was kind of in the genetics, in the blood. I grew up wanting to be a coach.
00:02:19
Speaker
Spent 22 years as a coach. When that career ended, started to write.
Financial Stakes in College Football
00:02:24
Speaker
I had already started writing before my coaching career had ended, writing columns and opinion pieces and things on a various different topics. So it always kind of been in my craw to do some stuff writing wise. And then that turned into one book, which turned into another book, which turned into my latest book. So it's just been ongoing evolution from the time I was a kid.
00:02:46
Speaker
ah Your dad was like the one of the most successful college football coaches. So he'd be in British, UK type terms, Sir Alex Ferguson type figure from Manchester United.
00:02:57
Speaker
Yes, he coached the same team as the head coach for 46 years. So long term, long, long career as well. And by the way, I should say American football. Yes. so Yeah, you're from America. We but we tend to assume that. and In the UK, when and when Americans are talking about football, you're you're the ones that are confused.
00:03:18
Speaker
Oh, i believe me. I know. There's not a lot of feet involved in football as it relates to contact with the ball occasionally, but generally hands and arms. It's rugby in fancier shirts, really. yeah Yes. So you've written three books so far, but you've also written for magazines and all sorts of other places, and you're also involved in television.
00:03:38
Speaker
Yeah, I co-created a show that covers Penn State football, which is where I coached for a long time. And that's 14 different markets in the Northeast United States. um So it's been an evolution and change from what I was used
College Sports as Big Business
00:03:51
Speaker
to. But a lot of the things you learn as a coach and a lot of things that carry you in good stead are the same types of things that would translate to success in a lot of other business, television, whatever it may be, there's a lot of crossover in terms of things that make you successful.
00:04:07
Speaker
I agree with you. The book Blitzed, the subtitle is The All-Out Pressure of College Football's New Era. And like you say, it is American football. Can you tell us a little bit about what you see as the new era of college football?
00:04:22
Speaker
Well, for as long as college sports have existed, the goal was to be amateur and have college students playing the games and, you know, legitimate student athletes. The money has gotten very, very big. It's not Premier League soccer type big or it's not NFL in the United States a big.
00:04:42
Speaker
But there's a conference in the United States called the Big Ten Conference. There are 18 teams in the Big Ten Conference. So that's a whole nother math issue. Much like much like football and and and American football, ah you know, there's 18 teams in a conference called the Big Ten. But the Big Ten gets $1.1 billion dollars a year just in television rights fees. So it has become big, big business. And with that has come big, big pressure on coaches. When I was coaching at Penn State, we'd have crowds of 109,000, 110,000 people in person, 12 to 15 million people watching on television. And there is an expectation that you will not only be successful, but win championships and the pressures that come with it.
00:05:28
Speaker
What's happened in the last four or five years is rather than just being student athletes who got a scholarship to go to college, now they're able to use their name, image, and likeness to get paid, in some cases, over a million dollars to play college football now. So it's changed dramatically, which has created a whole level of pressure now on these athletes and coaches. And there's no real restriction on the athletes from jumping from team to team.
00:05:55
Speaker
Unlike in professional sports, you have these contracts that keep people at a certain place or you have to make trades or whatever it may be. So the the pressure now is to continue to win at the highest level, but also be dealing with a whole different reality. And with these these players' ability to jump around,
Evolution of Sports Scholarships
00:06:15
Speaker
now coaches find themselves having to build cultures and teams that players want to be a part of because now everybody can throw money at them. From a UK perspective, it seems rather strange that that college sports, university sports, attract such a big audience. In the UK, we have the university boat race, which is televised once a year. And right anything else would be...
00:06:40
Speaker
just the back pages of a regional newspaper if you're lucky. But college sport, university sport in the United States is big business. It is unique to the United States in that regard. And it just kind of grew out of this history where some of the universities, if you're going back to schools like Harvard and Yale and Princeton and places like that, they were really the first ones to get into the sport part of it.
00:07:06
Speaker
And as it grew and as it started to take off, then obviously anytime there's money involved, corruption shows up. So some of those schools kind of backed away from the big time sport pursuits to where now schools, a lot of schools like Alabama and Penn State and Ohio State, Notre Dame and places like that, they've because it's just grown into this big business. And because all these people associate with their university,
00:07:32
Speaker
They take this, it's almost part of their DNA. they they've They've gone through this college experience where they've been a part of big time sports, have been spectators as students to where then they continue to follow their team. And like I said, millions of people watching on TV and ah upwards of 100,000 people showing up to watch the games. And I suppose the scholarship started as a way of getting talented sports people into education in universities.
00:08:01
Speaker
Yeah, there's no question. And one thing that's, I think, not unique just to the United States, to any sport, when certain athletes are identified at an early age as having a unique talent, whether it be basketball, whatever it is, they get kind of steered towards that as a pursuit. Rather than them getting exploited and not getting education, the college system is trying to get them educated and giving them
Managing Talent in Changing Dynamics
00:08:29
Speaker
scholarships. And that was generally the idea when when it when scholarships started to be given. And it has since morphed into to more of a big business. And now there's money on the table.
00:08:39
Speaker
Started off altruistically. Now we've got big business involved, big audiences, so lots of money swilling around in college football. And that then means that the role of the coach changes. And the coach is essentially the manager of the team.
00:08:56
Speaker
Yes. So, right. And their role completely changes. So instead of having people who are thinking, well, you know, if I play great football, I can carry on in my education. If I get dropped from the team, dropped from the squad, there's a risk that the college might say, well, actually, you no longer need the scholarship, so you have to pay for the school fees. So being good at sport guaranteed them the opportunity to continue their education.
00:09:23
Speaker
What's now happening is that they're good at their sport, and they know they're good at the sport, but because of the money that's involved, the scholarship isn't as important?
00:09:33
Speaker
Oh, there's no question. and And, you know, with the pressures ah to win, there is also pressure. There's a temptation to not really enforce or really see that these guys get the education they want, because a lot of them also are looking at playing professionally after college and going to the NFL. So there is a temptation to really kind of focus more just on the on the sports side and ignore the academic side. There's a fine line there you have to balance all the time. And when you talk about the kind of money involved, you know, in the United States now, you have football coaches at the college level that are making nine and 10 and 11 and $12 million dollars a year to coach a team So that that whole thing has just exploded and accelerated in terms of what the payouts are for coaches as well as players. So how does it change the way in which the whole sort of management of that team happens?
00:10:29
Speaker
Well, prior to this current era that we're in now, you would give everybody a full scholarship. So if we would go recruit a player to come to Penn State, that player would essentially go to school for free, get room and board for free, and wouldn't pay anything for their education.
00:10:45
Speaker
Okay, so that was a level playing field for everybody. Now with being able to pay them, you know, in the NFL, there's a salary cap. I don't know if that's the case in the Premier League in soccer, but there's no salary cap yet right now as it relates to college sports. So now the coach has got to be able to say, okay, I've got money for this and money for that. And oh, this other school can now pay him a million and half. We're only paying him a million.
00:11:10
Speaker
I've got to come up with another five or 600 grand to pay this guy to keep him or he'll leave. So all these things now are at play where the coach's job has changed because there is no level playing field anymore.
Sports Talent Management vs. Business
00:11:21
Speaker
Now it's it's trying to find every loophole you can and every way to get as much money as you can to these guys.
00:11:27
Speaker
Yeah. And that, of course, is what people in business call the the war for talent. Yes. Finding the right people and then putting in place the things that will keep them. And I suspect that in college football, we're dealing with people who are in their late teens and very early twenty s Yeah. Generally, you're looking at kids that are coming right out of a high school, which is roughly 18 years old till they're 22, 23.
00:11:52
Speaker
The ability to keep them, the real challenge is not just the money. Within each team, you have egos. So one player says, well, this guy's getting paid this amount. Why am I not getting paid as much as he is? I'm as good as he is.
00:12:06
Speaker
So that becomes part of it. And then you have to try and get all these guys with their own individual goals and their own egos and their own pursuit of their own paycheck to then come together and rely on each other and trust each other and build a team that can be successful against a group of highly trained, highly coached and talented players week in and week out to try and win a championship. All these things have kind of evolved and all these things are the true challenge of trying to be a championship player.
00:12:35
Speaker
coach at this level and what's going on now. Which is very, very similar to what happens in any organization where you've got talented people who are very well paid, doing great jobs, but you're always at risk of them leaving, going somewhere else. And you're always at
Team Cohesion Over Individualism
00:12:51
Speaker
risk of them not being as motivated as you would like them to do. So you're not getting value for money either or their performance just slips.
00:12:59
Speaker
My impression of of a coach in any sport is that you are a role model for the people that you are coaching and a father figure or a mother figure in lots of ways as well.
00:13:11
Speaker
It's about building the relationship with those players so it's not a case of just simply the money. It's that I might be able to be paid more if I move there But will ah will that add to my long-term career development? Or will I have the lifestyle that I want if I move?
00:13:29
Speaker
Yeah, I think the challenge is is you have to create what we used to call we and us people. And what that means is we've got to get people to come to be part of a team. Anybody can build a roster, whether it's a business, whether it's sales force, or whether it is a business that's going to go out and consult whatever it may be. You can go out and get the best people, individuals that are out there, and you can pay them a lot of money and bring them all in. The question is, can you get them all to become we and us people? Because sometimes somebody's going to have a good day and somebody's got to play the supporting role. And the next day, the person that played the supporting role might be the person that's being the lead. As I mentioned, it might be sales, whatever it may be.
00:14:13
Speaker
And There was something that we used to do before and after every game. And before and after every football game, it's a violent game of collisions. it is It is a tough, it's speed, it's grace, it's collisions, it's thinking through fatigue, whatever it is. But before and after every game, we used to recite the Lord's Prayer. And the reason that that was chosen by our head coach, Joe Paterno, my dad, he said to me, he said, every pronoun in that prayer is plural. It's we, us, our, we, us, our. There are no I and me and mine. And and he said, that is symbolic.
00:14:52
Speaker
We're not praying for world domination. We're not praying to win the game. We're essentially praying for our daily bread, so to speak. But he wanted to constantly reinforce that idea of we and us. Our uniforms did not have names on the back.
00:15:07
Speaker
Like a lot of others, we're we're giving ourselves into something bigger
Teamwork and Shared Goals
00:15:11
Speaker
than us. And I think that's the challenge for everybody in business, because right now, so much of the messaging that people get when they're getting their education, when they're getting into their professional careers, build your brand, your individual brand, brand, brand. brand And this is you and that's you. And you've got to get this and you've got to get that. And it's all about I and me.
00:15:33
Speaker
Yet the most successful companies, the most successful teams are going to be those situations where it's we and us. When geese fly, they fly in a V formation. Yes. One of the things that people don't realize is the lead goose is not the same all the time.
00:15:50
Speaker
They change every time. And when they fly, the only goose that is not honking is the lead goose because it has that lead goose has the toughest role as the first person cutting into the wind.
00:16:01
Speaker
But they all have to take their turn there and do the hard things without being able to essentially... toot their own horns or geese honk their own horns, whatever you want to say. yeah But those are the kind of messages people need to hear more so now than ever because of social media, because of people making those paramount to what the team goals may be. And that's the great management people or have the ability to help people see past the I and me and become the we and us.
00:16:29
Speaker
Yes. It's the team that is important rather than the individual. And if a team succeeds, you know, everybody's brand gains when you're part of the successful team. There's no question about it.
00:16:41
Speaker
Yes, very much so. If you can attach yourself to the team and talk about the contribution that you made to the team. When you you talk about your contribution, you're talking about how your contribution helped other people to do things. rather than, well, I scored the goal.
00:17:00
Speaker
It's like, yes I received the ball from so-and-so who'd run the main length, and then i he threw it to me, and i then got the touchdown. That's an American football term, that, you know? Touchdown. I got that. Well, i was watching Napoli win the Serie A Italy. I've become a little bit of a Serie A fan because I'm Italian-American and my family came from Naples, but It was a nothing-nothing game. A nil-nil, excuse me. yeah And a great pass.
00:17:30
Speaker
And one of the players from Napoli kicked the ball into the goal off the pass one time and immediately ran over to hug the guy that passed it to him. And that's that's kind of what you've got to build, that idea.
Recruitment and Organizational Values
00:17:41
Speaker
Yes.
00:17:43
Speaker
Supporting each other means that you will complete the the goal quicker, more efficiently, more profitable, all sorts of of different ways. But it's like, yeah, I know what you mean when you so say it's about the team. One of my only bits, I've not written much about sport, but... I was inspired to write about the England football team that went to the Soccer World Cup in Germany, where the manager was Jens Warren Eriksen.
00:18:11
Speaker
And he got all of the best players from all of the best English football teams. All of the big names were there, the Beckhams, the Roonies, the Owens.
00:18:22
Speaker
All of them were there. And it was a dismal World Cup. And part of the problem, I surmised with my limited knowledge, really, was that he'd got all the best players, but he'd failed to build a team.
00:18:36
Speaker
And as a result of that, well, the team didn't function as a team. It functioned as a group of individuals, which wasn't as effective as less talented players operating as a team.
00:18:50
Speaker
Then that is always the case. There's no question about it. There's sometimes just such a talent differential between one team and another that it doesn't matter. But when you get to that level and everybody's got players that are talented, um that ability and, you know, you don't have to necessarily love each other, but got like each other and you got to have an ability to communicate with each other you and try and do what's best for for everybody. So as a coach of the college football team, and you're doing your scouting for the people that are going to get the spot the get to the scholarships for the next year, and you go out and watch... the high school games, and you're looking at the different players, I get the feeling that you're looking for the team players rather than the person who's demonstrating a lot of talent but isn't part of the team.
00:19:41
Speaker
Well, I think the most important thing is when you go out and again, whether it's business or whatever it may be, if you're a head of an organization, you have to set up what is what does this organization stand for and what do I stand for?
00:19:54
Speaker
So what are the expectations that we will have? What what are the things that we're going to need to do to be successful? And when you go out to talk to people about becoming part of your organization, you have to put that in front of them right off the bat.
00:20:09
Speaker
Because you can make a great sales pitch and make sure to say everything is great here. It's always awesome, the whole nine yards. And when they get there and find out that the expectations are different than what you sold them on, they're not gonna be happy. They're not gonna be successful employees. They're gonna have a bad attitude and bad attitudes are hard hard to change. So I think if you know who you are and you know what your organization is and what it stands for, and you communicate that effectively, a lot of people that don't belong on your team or don't wanna be team players the way you do things will self-select out.
00:20:46
Speaker
And that's that's a positive. You can't be upset about the person that doesn't want to be part of what you want to do or the right way. And don't think you can convert them because it's you know when you get to a certain age, it's very difficult to get people to change who they are.
00:21:01
Speaker
you can take a chance on one or two people, but you better surround them with a bunch of true believers. Because if the bulk of your organization are all true believers and one or two are not, they will either self-select out or they will learn to to adopt the culture of the organization because they'll see that's how things are. So ah being up front with people right off the bat is the most important thing in having that sense. Now, As times change, your tactics will change, your strategies will change, but what your core is cannot change because that's what jolts people is when you change the core values.
00:21:37
Speaker
They'll adapt
Adapting Tactics While Keeping Core Values
00:21:38
Speaker
to changing tactics and strategies and adjustments, but it's hard for them to really adapt to a change in the core beliefs of what you are. Yeah, so how you do it, the work that you do can adapt to changing circumstances. But the values that drive your organization, your team have to be consistent and you have to live those values as well. But if you demonstrate those values in how you every aspect of your organization operates,
00:22:06
Speaker
the people who will not be comfortable in that type of environment will probably not apply anyway. Yeah. mean, if you if they know who you are, yeah generally, yeah but the the important thing is that they do know who you are. you if you explain that effectively, then that helps at the outset. If you have, hate to use the word brand, but I mean, if people know that you stand for a certain thing and your companies run a certain way, then like I said, they'll self-select out if they don't want to be part of that. Yes. If they're honest with themselves, they'll self-select out because they'll notice that they're they're not going to be comfortable in that environment.
00:22:41
Speaker
Others will think that they are ideal for you because that's the mindset that they've got into and that's what they want. They want to be part of your team, part of your organization. And then when they arrive and realize that actually they've misheard you, they've heard what they wanted to hear, not what you've said, they then either have an education process to go through in order to assimilate into the culture that you are defining for your team or they leave very quickly.
00:23:16
Speaker
Yeah, there's no question.
Core Values Through Adversity
00:23:17
Speaker
I mean, if I was a great guitar player and I wanted to join a band and the Rolling Stones called me, I would not expect to be the lead singer. i think you' Just the way it is, you know, and I'm a huge Stones fan. So full full disclosure there. If somebody says me Beatles or Stones, I will say Stones every time and that's nothing against Beatles. But the point being is,
00:23:39
Speaker
you know that there are certain people in certain roles and that your role would be to be a, you wouldn't be the lead guitarist because that's Keith Richards gig. But I mean, the point being is that you know where you're going to fit in and that, and if you and if you delude yourself, you're not going to be very happy.
00:23:54
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, I know what you mean. i think we've seen quite a lot of examples over recent years of people wanting one role in an organization and not accepting the role which has been allocated to them and feeling very unhappy about it and frying pans and fire come to mind. But it's very, it's very like just, it's life, isn't it? It's like you find the people who are going to fit into what you want your organization to stand for so that they will stand with you in the bad times as well as the good. That is critical, surviving through some adversity. We had a couple of tough years when I was coaching at Penn State. And one of the things that we were able to do is maintain the core values.
00:24:44
Speaker
And get guys to trust that we had the right, lead get the players to trust that we had the right leadership. And when we came out of the other side of those tough years, we had great, great success. But we but they did trust in us because we had been honest with them up front. And they trusted in us because they knew what it is we stood for. They knew their role in helping us get to where we needed to go.
00:25:07
Speaker
Whereas had we simply said, hey, everything that we've told you guys before we're throwing out, you would have had guys leave the team in the whole nine yards and we would not have had the kind of success we were able to achieve. I think that's the key message, isn't it? Be clear about what it is that you stand for and make sure that you you continue to stand for those values in every situation.
00:25:31
Speaker
Yeah, no question. And look, adversity is going to come to everybody. Nobody gets to win all the time. If you have those things built in, if you have that trust, then you can get through adversity. And the type of people that you want to stick around will stick around. and The people that are not really all in, they'll leave when things get tough. And it's it's a hard lesson to learn sometimes. Maybe you didn't have some of the right people with you. But in the long term, you're going to be much better off when they opt out.
Conclusion with Jay Paterno
00:25:58
Speaker
Sound advice there, Jay. Thank you very much. Really appreciate your your wise words. Thank you very much. Jay, you've helped me make ah such an interesting episode of The Independent Minds. Thank you very much.
00:26:10
Speaker
Thanks for having me on. And like you said, you you've made me think too. Thank you. That's what it's all about. That's what it's all about. I love the way you put that. Not when I tell you how to think, but we hope we make you think. I love that. I can't claim credit for it though. You know, it was an audience member. of the first podcasts that we published, they came back to me and said, you know, I listen to a lot of podcasts and i' often leave them feeling as if I've been told what to think. But with yours, you didn't tell me what to think, but you certainly made me think. And I felt like I am so happy. You know, as a trainer type person, I would be very happy if someone put that on a memorial to me, like he made us think.
00:26:51
Speaker
What more could I ask for? Thank you. absolutely thank you very much i am michael mill ward the managing director of abecida and in this episode of the independent minds i have been having a conversation with jay paterno the author of blitzed you can find out more information about both of us at abecida.co.uk there is a link in the description along with links to where you can buy blitzed achieving anything in your career is easier when you are healthy An important part of staying healthy is knowing the risks early. That is why we recommend the annual health test from York Test.
00:27:29
Speaker
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00:27:46
Speaker
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00:28:10
Speaker
I'm sure that you will have enjoyed this episode of The Independent Minds as much as Jay and I have enjoyed making it. Please give it a like and download it so you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:28:21
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abusida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think.
00:28:33
Speaker
Until the next episode of The Independent Minds, thank you for listening and goodbye.