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Trust in Selling – a conversation with expert sales trainer Scott Schilling
1 Playsin 7 hours
Successful selling depends on building trust, but how do you build trust?
Scott Schilling is an internationally successful sales person who became a much in demand international sales trainer and speaker.
In this episode of the Abeceder podcast The Independent Minds Scott explains his approach to successful selling to host Michael Millward.
Scott explains how he encourages sales people to become assets to their customers, by helping their clients to identify problems and find the right solution.
They discuss
- The importance of human-to-human communication skills in building trust
- Developing a unique personal selling proposition to facilitate people to people business
- Why selling is a people helping activity
- Why selling is an education process
- Scott’s definition of what makes a sales person a sales professional
- Why the long-term view is always a good idea
- The difference between building trust and being trust worthy
- How every conversation is a sale regardless of context
- The decisions potential sales people must make when embarking on a sales career
This podcast is essential listening for every sales person who wants to build a successful business.
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Transcript
Introduction to Independent Minds Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencastr. The all-in-one podcasting platform that really does make every stage of the podcast production process so easy. Visit Zencastr.com. All the details are in the description.
Role of Trust in Sales
00:00:18
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abysseedah and people who think outside the box about how work works with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for everyone.
00:00:35
Speaker
I am your host, Michael Millward. Today, i will be learning more about the role of trust in the sales process from sales trainer Scott Schilling, who describes salespeople as people who help people.
00:00:50
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Scott is based in Dallas, Texas, USA. It's not somewhere that I have ever been, but when I do go to Dallas, I will be sure to make my travel arrangements at the Ultimate Travel Club.
00:01:02
Speaker
because there I can access trade prices on all my travel purchases, flights, hotels, trains, even package holidays. You can as well, if you're a member. And to make it easy, set up a link and a discount code, which you can access in the description. Now that I've paid some bills, it is time to make this episode of The Independent Minds. That will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:01:29
Speaker
As with every episode of The Independent Minds, we won't be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think.
Scott Schilling's Career Journey
00:01:36
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Hello, Scott. Hey, I am honored to be here. That's awesome. Thank you very much.
00:01:41
Speaker
Please could we start this episode of the Independent Minds with you telling us a little bit about your career in sales and your achievements? Certainly. You know, I was very fortunate when I was going to the university. i was going to go get a business degree like many people were. had the opportunity to play Big Ten football at the University of Iowa. And I said, you know, what was going to make me different when I come out having a marketing degree along with thousands of other people?
00:02:09
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the opportunity that became available was to become a life insurance agent at the age of 18 while I was going to college and playing college football. Or there weren't many jobs available at the time I graduated.
00:02:25
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And so I thought face-to-face communication ability would be the differentiator.
Authentic Relationships in Sales
00:02:31
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And it turned out to be at a time where many people had no job offers coming out of college, I ended up with seven. So it gave me choice where most people either didn't have anything or got stuck doing something they really didn't want to do.
00:02:48
Speaker
So that little piece of education, face-to-face communication ability gave me a leg up on the rest of the field. Yep. It is something that I often say, your qualification is great, but it's not going to get you a job. It will get you through the door for the interview, but it's your other skills, the things that you developed whilst you were at college or university, rather than the qualification that will actually get you the job offer. Exactly.
Sales Philosophy: Human Interaction vs AI
00:03:13
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And and so it gave me the opportunity to have that choice.
00:03:17
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I was able to rocket to the top of the corporation I chose to go with. One of the reasons I chose to go there because I felt I could. And again, that then gave me more choices. I went off independently and eventually became a professional speaker and trainer internationally.
00:03:39
Speaker
When I look at your website, there's all sorts of information on there about not just sales, but the way in which you define sales and the way in which you train salespeople to be great salespeople. And a lot of it is around the ability to have a face-to-face conversation with people and build up the rapport and the relationship. Well, the reality is people do business with people.
00:04:03
Speaker
People do life with people. There's eight and a half billion people on the planet, and I'm pretty sure most of them have figured out how to make more. So we're we're not going to run out of people. That's a really good way of describing it. But I agree with you. yeah Most people have worked worked that one out. Yeah, well, it's exactly it. they They've they've worked that out. And so the reality is, if in fact people do business with people, which they do, being able to communicate with others, being able to build trust with them and really understanding one of the things that I share with salespeople today is is developing your unique selling proposition.
00:04:41
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If we look back in my career when I was 18 21,
00:04:46
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I gained face-to-face personal communication ability. That was my unique selling proposition when I came out of school. I was able to speak to people when most people couldn't.
00:04:57
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Well, today it's very much the same. People are concerned about being replaced by AI and and technology and all that. But if we know a couple of facts, we know that people do business with people.
00:05:11
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And we also know the one thing that AI or a couple things that AI will never replace. It'll never have empathy. It will never have compassion. It will never be a human being. So your unique selling proposition today as a salesperson is to be a human being, is to have the ability to communicate face-to-face and help people understand that you're in the people helping business.
00:05:39
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Now I totally agree with you on that. I do have sort of a bit of a concern. I have been sold to by lots of different salespeople and I have bought all sorts of different products and services, both at work and at home.
00:05:55
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More so when I'm buying at work in the business to business scenario, I've met salespeople who I thought I've got along with really well. Then I sign a piece of paper.
00:06:07
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and they're very difficult to contact. It's like, where have they gone? Where have they gone? And then the contract comes up for renewal, and all of a sudden they're there again. And whereas I thought I had a relationship with that person, I don't think I had an authentic relationship with that person. I was merely just a line on a sales plan.
00:06:28
Speaker
Whilst I totally get what you're saying about Your unique selling point can be your ability to have a conversation with people. There are different types of conversations. There are different types of relationships that you can to develop, and they're always good ones.
Genuine Relationships: Pitfalls and Best Practices
00:06:46
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Totally. Webster's definition of sales is the exchange of a product, good, or service for an amount of money or its equivalent. Sometimes people get hung up on the money thing, so I encourage them to say, it's the exchange of a product, good, or service because it makes your heart feel good.
00:07:05
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It's a little bit reframing in your own mind that way because this is about mindset, right? Yes. Well, my heart-centered selling definition of sales is education through communication without manipulation. Could you say that again, please?
00:07:21
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Education through communication without manipulation. I truly believe that as a sales professional, we're educators.
00:07:32
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We educate people on the features, advantages, and benefits our products, goods, and services have that satisfy our prospects, needs, wants, and desire.
00:07:45
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It's about helping somebody. And as a sales professional, quite frankly, I don't ever want to sell you anything. But I do always want you to buy a lot from me.
00:07:56
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Therefore, it's my responsibility to fulfill your needs, wants, and desires, to create an environment where you want what I have because it satisfies your needs, your wants, your desires. This is all about you. This is not about me or even the product or solution.
00:08:20
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education, communication, and without manipulation, the emphasis seems to be on education rather than actually selling anything. You're telling people about products and telling them, or services, and telling them about how that product or service will meet their needs better than someone else.
00:08:41
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But that's not what you generally experience in terms of communications with salespeople? Well, it can be. the The fact, that yeah it is what the ones that I train, because the reality is, if the salesperson is getting you to take an action that benefits the salesperson more than it benefits you, there's a problem there.
00:09:03
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Because they might be able to get you to make that purchase. But if they do, you're going to watch for every promise they commit to.
00:09:14
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And the first chance that it doesn't fu fulfill one of those promises, they will be upset with the salesperson, which means one of two things. The product is going to be returned.
00:09:26
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Doesn't do anybody any good. Or the salesperson will never be done business with again. Doesn't do any good. See, if if people make selling way too hard, it's actually only four words. Identify problem.
00:09:41
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Provide solution. If I work with you and and I find out what your challenges are, what you are up against, the the fact is, if I can solve those for you, number one, you're going to be happy because you made the decision that it solves it.
00:10:01
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You're going to be happy with me because I'm the person who provided it, which means the next time you have a challenge, you' you're probably going to look to me again to in fact, hope I solve the next problem for you. That's how you create authentic relationships over an extended period of time.
00:10:22
Speaker
I'm just listening to you and sort of think, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense. And you also make it sound very straightforward and and easy as well. But I know it's not, but you are talking about relationships and having authentic relationships between salespeople and their clients and customers.
00:10:44
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and But how do you, what but what would you say were the the key features of an authentic relationship? Well, I think that there's a number of things, but let me give you an example outside of the classical sales realm.
00:10:59
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And I would do that by asking a question. When is the very best time to tell your significant
Long-term Approach in Sales
00:11:05
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other that you love them? and The answer is before somebody else does.
00:11:14
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it's the It's the exact same in business, quite frankly. if you ah When's the best time to tell your customer you love them? Before somebody else does. Is to to really...
00:11:29
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in fact, nurture that relationship, again, the the first purchase is exactly that. Then there's the delivery. Then there's the maintenance of making sure that it is performing as suggested and that they are happy with it. It's building that relationship over time. And in reality, you've said it a couple times now,
00:11:55
Speaker
What you're saying, Scott, is so straightforward and seems so easy, but it it can't be that easy. That's not true. If you believe it's not easy, it's not easy. But in actuality, if you like people, if you truly have a desire to understand that selling is serving.
00:12:15
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When you sell something to somebody, all you have done, in fact, is you have satisfied a problem that they had. How can you not love being a problem solver?
00:12:28
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Because in essence, that's what a sales professional is. Yes. You solve the problem. You've, you say, identify with the customer, the client, what the actual issue is, and then provide the solution to the issues that they've identified. Exactly. You see, part of that is so great. But then you've got the salespeople who will tell you that what they sell is what you need to solve your problem, even though sometimes...
00:12:58
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They know that it's not. And that's when you you get products returned, relationships break down. I would suggest that that's the manipulation side. That's where I don't believe sales professionals miss sell things.
00:13:14
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I think sales professionals
Trust in Business Relationships
00:13:16
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right size. In other words, they sell the right thing for the right time for the right solution. That's where I encourage people to become an asset to every everyone they meet. Asset is a five-letter acronym for a spontaneous servant every time.
00:13:33
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Become a spontaneous servant every time. The rest takes care of itself. So if you are a first-time prospect for me and you have a challenge that I might have a solution for, but I also know there are other potential solutions that would be better choices.
00:13:55
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My choice would be to hand you off to a friend to then satisfy your need because now I've actually satisfied two people. I've satisfied the original prospect because they truly have the solution they need.
00:14:13
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and I've satisfied a friend. It could even be with a different company, but now they know that they can trust me so that when they might not have the right solution for somebody, they could share that referral back to me.
00:14:30
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Now, does everybody do it that way? No. Could they? Yes. Should they? Probably. But not everybody thinks long-term that That's the word exactly that I was thinking of.
00:14:43
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When you're describing that, I'm thinking, this is all about looking for the long term, the relationship with your client, the relationship with other people with everyone. You have to think long term.
00:14:55
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Right. I'm in a 24-7, 365 forever business called Delivering Results. We're all in the results business, and I'm in the results business forever.
00:15:08
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If I make a short-term sale, it could, if I do it incorrectly, it could become a one-time sale. That's problematic. If I want somebody to be a lifelong customer, ultimately over time, they will buy more at higher margins with less effort and less expense to acquire them because I've nurtured them over an extended period of time. That means I'll actually make more money and expending less effort.
00:15:44
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That's a great combination. And it's because you've taken a long-term approach. What you're saying then is that sales is a long-term approach that involves building a relationship, an authentic relationship,
00:16:00
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Having authentic relationships are ones that are based upon trust and mutual respect and understanding. And then you can sell more to people because, not well, it's all because you have that authentic relationship with the trust and the respect, the listening as well as the speaking, and that you've built that relationship so people trust you.
00:16:27
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Exactly. And the point is you don't have to rebuild trust the next time. You don't have to rebuild them knowing you. Bottom line is people do business with those they know, like, and trust.
00:16:40
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yes If they don't know you, they don't like you. And if they don't like you, they don't trust you. But in order to do business with you, they have to trust you. So by definition, you have to build trust that ahead of the need for having that trust, quite frankly.
00:16:59
Speaker
the The customer makes the decision when they're going to buy. Well, if by definition they have to trust the person they buy from, if they have built trust in you and they're ready to buy, they buy from you.
00:17:15
Speaker
If they haven't built trust in you and they're ready to buy, they buy, but not from you. And if they've built trust in you, they're not ready to buy and you work to get them to buy, you will then lose your trust. You'll take multiple steps backwards so that when they are ready, now they will question whether you really had the trust in the first place.
00:17:41
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The equation is really pretty easily if you just stick to those concepts and understand it's about developing trust, nurturing that trust, and maintaining it over an extended period of time.
00:17:56
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but the aim should be to demonstrate that you are trustworthy. I say demonstrate that you are trustworthy rather than build trust, because in my mind, someone who sets out to build trust is almost is less authentic than someone who wants to demonstrate that they are trustworthy.
00:18:14
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I'll agree with your definition there. I mean, i i have no problem with that description whatsoever. I mean, it's absolutely true. In my opinion, if you're going to be a sales professional,
00:18:25
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you just plain have to like people. Yes. I mean, it's like people trying to make this so hard. I think it's funny when I go into an organization and I say, what's your biggest challenge? And they go, well, I don't like people.
00:18:40
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And I go, why are you in sales? Well, because it was the only job available. I said, let me give you one of two suggestions.
00:18:51
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Either learn to like people, Or change jobs. Because sales is about solving problems for people. So people are always going to be involved. And the the thing is, if you've got desire to learn how to do this, you can learn how to do this.
Communication in Problem Solving
00:19:11
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How do I know?
00:19:12
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It's what I train people every day. If they have want to, they can learn the rest. Yes, I agree with you. i think that there are elements of all of us that could could be salespeople, but there's an element of nervousness, shyness, reluctance, all sorts of various different things. But when it comes down to it, what you are doing is solving someone's problem.
00:19:41
Speaker
And to find out what problem it is that they have, You have to communicate with them. You have to have conversations with them. You have to feel comfortable talking to someone you don't know. Well, you just teed me up right there because you you said not everybody's a natural salesperson or not.
00:19:58
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i would beg to differ because every conversation you have is ultimately a sale. Now, that's a dramatic statement. I get it. Make me prove it. Okay, I will.
00:20:10
Speaker
Have you ever been on a date? Oh, several times. You made a sale. Several times. Have you ever put a kid to bed? It's a sale. You made a sale. yeah Are you married? You're better at this than you think. You were the product.
00:20:24
Speaker
That's why I work to demystify this. People, well, I'm not in sales. Well, if you have a business and you say you're not in sales, your business is not going to prosper. Yes.
00:20:36
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Everybody is communicating messages for other people to consider. They then take that piece of information. They then respond to you. They either accept what you just said to them, which is a sale, or they counter it, which is them thou selling you.
00:20:54
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Now, you don't have to get anxious about that fact. What I'm working to do is just demystify and say, it's okay. What it is, is education through communication without manipulations.
00:21:08
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I agree with you. And I think that everyone, yes, everyone can be a salesperson, just that people do not appreciate the fact that they have this ability to communicate and they don't apply that ability through all sorts of different reasons.
00:21:27
Speaker
So someone one is in a position and they have the opportunity to be in sales. They would quite like the idea of being in sales, but they're full of all these doubts because of all the various different perceptions that they've had.
Essential Qualities for a Sales Career
00:21:43
Speaker
They've listened to us talking about selling as a process of communication through conversation and building that trust. What would be your top three, top five things that they need to consider to start their sales career?
00:22:01
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Biggest thing is why would you want to do it? What's your why? And that can be varied in so many different ways. Why do you want to do it?
00:22:13
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Does it feel good to help people solve problems? Well, if it feels good to help people solve problems, you're a natural problem solver in that profession.
00:22:24
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Do you like adding happiness and joy to people's lives? Well, if you take away their problems, those problems get replaced with happiness and joy.
00:22:35
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Do you like people in general? Well, if you do, you're going to meet a lot of people. I i had somebody tell me, he said, you know, I've known you for 42 minutes now.
00:22:47
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And he said, it is if we have known each other our entire lives. He said, not many people can pull that off. And I said, you know why?
00:22:58
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Because I like people. And if you like people, you can pull that off because you like people. There's no ulterior motive other than wanting to be the best person you can be to help other people live the best life they can live.
00:23:15
Speaker
And if a problem comes up in between, you help them with it. that's That's pretty cool. I mean, think of what Matchmaker FM did.
00:23:26
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It matched us up as a platform. You had a desire to have a guest. I had a desire to be a guest. It simply played the intermediary.
00:23:39
Speaker
We talked. We met. We all of sudden said, boy, we could serve a whole bunch of people if we do this podcast. And so we schedule it and we're now doing it.
00:23:50
Speaker
It doesn't have to be any harder than that. No, it doesn't, does it? And actually, I'm listening to you say that with a great big grin on my face because I've really enjoyed having this conversation with you as well.
00:24:04
Speaker
And I've learned so much. And I think part one of the things that I've learned really is not sales techniques as such because you don't do do A followed by B.
00:24:16
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It is just simply this thing that if you like people, I like people, I like helping people.
Aligning with Products and Values
00:24:23
Speaker
And all I need to do is find the people who want to be helped in a way that I can help them.
00:24:30
Speaker
That's all it is about, isn't it It's about educating people by telling them what you can do for them and finding the people who have the problem that you can solve. Very much so. And where it really becomes great,
00:24:44
Speaker
I'll give you an example which has popped into my mind as you were saying that. I've had three companies come to me in the last week or 10 days that would like me to represent their products.
00:24:57
Speaker
Okay. That's very gratifying. That's very nice. So what's the next test? Do I align with the product? Do I believe the product can do what they say it can do?
00:25:10
Speaker
Two out of the three, I'm absolutely convinced it can do what they say it can do. The third one, not so much. Guess what? It's out of consideration at that point.
00:25:22
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The next one is, are they fa facility ah philosophically aligned? In other words, are they presenting products to serve people for the right reasons?
00:25:35
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One of them far outshines the other one. And so quite frankly, I'm looking at working with them to help their sales teams because I can philosophically align with what it is.
00:25:49
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There are a lot of sales jobs available. The question is, can you be a product of the product? Can you stand behind it at all costs? Can you put your reputation and integrity on the line?
00:26:06
Speaker
There are things that I absolutely, even though I could sell it, I won't sell it because I don't align with
Conclusion and Gratitude
00:26:17
Speaker
it.
00:26:17
Speaker
And that becomes the big key. Follow your heart, follow your intuition and do what you love to do for the reasons you love to do it. Living your values, isn't Absolutely.
00:26:30
Speaker
Absolutely. It has been great fun, Scott. I've really enjoyed this conversation. I've learned an awful lot and you've reinforced some of the things that i think i might already have known without actually knowing them consciously. So really do appreciate your time today. been fantastic. thank you my My pleasure. It's been an honor.
00:26:51
Speaker
Thank you. And my privilege. I am Michael Millward, Managing Director of Abbasida, And I have been having a conversation with the independent mind and super sales trainer, Scott Schilling.
00:27:05
Speaker
You can find out more information about both of us at abeceda.co.uk. There is a link in the description. As Scott mentioned, we were brought together by matchmaker.fm and i thank them for doing that.
00:27:19
Speaker
If you are a podcaster looking for interesting guests, or if like Scott, you have something very interesting to say, matchmaker.fm is where great hosts and even greater guests are matched.
00:27:31
Speaker
There is a link and a membership discount code in the description. Zencast has, as always, been a very efficient tool for us today. But if you are listening to the independent minds on your smartphone and have experienced technical issues like buffering, you may like to know that 3.0 has the UK's fastest 5G network with unlimited data.
00:27:52
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So listening on 3.0 means you can wave goodbye to buffering. There is a link in the description that will take you to more information about business and personal telecom solutions from 3 and the special offers available when you quote my referral code.
00:28:07
Speaker
The description is well worth reading. I'm sure that you will have liked this episode of The Independent Minds as much as Scott and I have enjoyed making it.
00:28:18
Speaker
Please give it a like and download it so that you can listen anytime, anywhere. To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think.
00:28:36
Speaker
Until the next episode of The Independent Minds, thank you for listening and goodbye.