Transcript
Speaker: One, two, boobies.
Speaker: One, two, boobies.
Speaker: One, two, boobies.
Speaker: One, boobies.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Hi everyone, I'm your host, Molly Ryder.
Speaker: Welcome to the podcast, More Milk Please, baby feeding stories from Moms Plus, like me and you.
Speaker: This podcast is designed to be a safe space for women plus to come together and share baby feeding stories.
Speaker: Whether you are expecting or thinking about having kids, a mom, non-binary, an aunt, grandma, or a caregiver, you are welcome.
Speaker: because we hear it all.
Speaker: From breastfeeding and pumping to tube feeding, bottles, formula, frozen milk, and weaning, our worldwide community is here, connecting over some of our most nerve-wracking and intimate moments.
Speaker: I am so glad you're here, dear listener.
Speaker: Oh my goodness, my mom's plus.
Speaker: I hope that you find connection and belonging as you listen.
Speaker: And if this podcast or me or our guests or the stories mean something to you, it would mean the world to me if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to rate and review the podcast.
Speaker: It helps new Moms Plus find us so these stories can support even more baby feeding adults in
Speaker: out there in the wild world of parenting.
Speaker: To do this, just go to the More Milk Please show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and just hit the plus sign in the top right-hand corner.
Speaker: Of course, the more stars you're willing to give, the better.
Speaker: And I so appreciate hearing your thoughts.
Speaker: So if you could please leave a comment, that'd be amazing.
Speaker: I check and read them all and feel immense joy over each one.
Speaker: So thank you.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: So much love and hugs.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Today, I'm so excited.
Speaker: I am interviewing Kalila Green Siciliano.
Speaker: Did I pronounce that right?
Speaker: You did.
Speaker: That was pretty good.
Speaker: Kalila is a mom, a surrogate, a pregnancy loss survivor, a speaker, the founder of Yours and Years, spelled Y-R-S.
Speaker: She is the host of the podcast Pushing Through Loss, where Kalila speaks about her experience with surrogacy, pregnancy loss, and creating her survival toolkit in order to help her audience feel empowered to use their own struggles to work
Speaker: with them and not push against them.
Speaker: You should definitely check it out.
Speaker: I feel like there's a lot of cross collaboration.
Speaker: That's just very cool.
Speaker: So welcome, Clela.
Speaker: I'm so excited to have you on More Milk, please.
Speaker: Thanks for being here today.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: I'm so excited because while I always get to share and hear stories about pregnancy loss, it's really exciting to also be able to hear about the other side of it because I just I love all of anything that has to do with pregnancy, labor, delivery, afterwards, everything.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Love it.
Speaker: Well, can you start by sharing a little bit about you and your family, where you live, your kids?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: So we lived in Los Angeles for a very long time.
Speaker: That's where all three of my kids were born.
Speaker: And now we live in Orlando, Florida.
Speaker: And so it's still warm weather, although very different areas of the country.
Speaker: And we live like 20 minutes from Disney.
Speaker: So it's amazing.
Speaker: My kids are there all the time and it's like our backyard.
Speaker: So I
Speaker: At the moment, I have a 12-year-old, an almost 10-year-old, and a seven-year-old.
Speaker: And each of their feeding stories is totally different than the next, starting with the fact that I nannied from such a young age.
Speaker: I think I started being a mother's helper when I was like eight or nine years old.
Speaker: So when I had my daughter, I was like, I could do this.
Speaker: This is easy.
Speaker: And then I was like, oh, okay.
Speaker: I have no idea how to nurse her.
Speaker: That's totally new.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And then my two boys who are, like I said, almost 10 and seven, again, totally different situations.
Speaker: And then with the surrogate pregnancy, also a completely different situation.
Speaker: So everybody always says each pregnancy is different, but so is each feeding journey.
Speaker: Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker: You know, every I think even just like with every baby being different and the way they come out and, you know, their energy, it's like, it creates a whole new experience.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, let's let's dig in with your first.
Speaker: So before you had your daughter, she's the one who's 12.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What was your breastfeeding baby feeding knowledge?
Speaker: I think, I think I was like, of course I'm going to nurse.
Speaker: Like there was no question in my mind.
Speaker: I had had friends who did both formula and pumping.
Speaker: And to me, I was like, whatever, first of all, healthy baby, healthy mama, like that's what counts.
Speaker: But
Speaker: I definitely wanted to nurse.
Speaker: I knew that that was something I felt strongly about and I was going to try everything I could.
Speaker: And so when I was in the hospital, I had a friend who had just finished her lactation consultant program.
Speaker: And I called her because the
Speaker: The hospital where I delivered did not really do so well in giving me any sort of information as to what to do.
Speaker: Every time I would have to nurse her, they would come in and be like, oh, here, let me do it for you.
Speaker: And they never explained how it worked or what the proper latch was or a proper position.
Speaker: And so I ended up calling her.
Speaker: as I think they were getting ready to discharge me.
Speaker: And I was like, when I go home, I have no idea what to do.
Speaker: And I'm afraid that she's not going to eat.
Speaker: Like, what do I, where do I even start?
Speaker: So she talked me through it on the phone and she said, if I can come over, I definitely will, but let me see if I can help you with FaceTime first.
Speaker: And she did.
Speaker: And she went into all the different positions that you can hold her and all the different ways that you can sort of get your nipple into their mouth properly and what the right latch would look like and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker: And when I went home, I felt a little bit more confident, but I was still really nervous.
Speaker: And she said, the one thing I would tell you to get is get a nipple shield.
Speaker: So I sent my husband out and I was like, get me every size possible.
Speaker: I don't even know what's going to fit, but like, if this is going to work and it's going to help, then let's do it.
Speaker: So my poor husband, he goes to, you know, baby's RS that was still open and he's looking around.
Speaker: He's like, I don't even know what I'm looking for.
Speaker: Like, I understand the two words, nipple and shield, but what is that?
Speaker: So he asks around in the store and they finally point him in the right direction and he comes home.
Speaker: And, and at this point, I think I had been home for eight hours and she was screaming and I could not nurse.
Speaker: I could not figure it out.
Speaker: I kept trying and I was getting ready to lose my mind and my mom never nursed me.
Speaker: So I knew calling her was not going to help one way or the other.
Speaker: She, it would be a good sympathetic ear, but that was it.
Speaker: So yeah,
Speaker: I then called my friend back who's a lactation consultant.
Speaker: And I said, help, I need something more.
Speaker: And she said, send your husband out again.
Speaker: Cause he's, he was already stressed to begin with.
Speaker: So I think that was part of it.
Speaker: And she said, get the breast friend pillow.
Speaker: And I was like, again, never heard of it.
Speaker: I've heard of the boppy, but sure.
Speaker: You're telling me to get the breast friend.
Speaker: That's what we're going to get.
Speaker: So he, he goes back out and I had this like moment of genius with,
Speaker: as he was out where I thought were Jewish.
Speaker: And I know for boys, when they do their circumcision, they very often will take like a napkin or a washcloth or something for them to suck on with wine while they're starting the circumcision process.
Speaker: So they're like a tiny bit drunk with sugar and it's actually more sugar water than it is wine.
Speaker: So I thought, you know what, what if I at least get water into her system and dampen a washcloth that's clean and let her suck on that to make sure that she can suck on something.
Speaker: And I did.
Speaker: And all of a sudden she started sucking and I, I put her into one of the holds.
Speaker: I think it was the football hold.
Speaker: And I like switched the washcloth out from my boob really quickly and it worked.
Speaker: And all of a sudden I was like, Oh,
Speaker: she's nursing.
Speaker: And I did it on my own.
Speaker: And this is incredible.
Speaker: I said, it hurts so much, but I did it.
Speaker: And my husband came home to find me like in tears, basically saying she nursed and we're okay.
Speaker: And we can figure this out.
Speaker: And it was just such a relief at that point.
Speaker: And I did end up using the nipple shields for about two weeks.
Speaker: And then there was a point in the middle of the night where I couldn't get it attached properly.
Speaker: And she was screaming and I was like, Ruth, sorry for the language.
Speaker: And I literally threw it across the room and I just sort of put her on there.
Speaker: And I was like,
Speaker: It worked without the nipple shield.
Speaker: This is amazing.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: So after that, I was much more confident and felt like, okay, I, I, I got this now.
Speaker: And yeah, we had our ups and downs within the first month or so.
Speaker: But after that, she, she nursed like a champ and I nursed her.
Speaker: until she was 20, 21 months or so.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: And you mentioned getting them like my breast friend pillow.
Speaker: Did you end up using it?
Speaker: Cause that's kind of a nice one where it like, it actually attaches around your body.
Speaker: All the time.
Speaker: I remember the first time I had to go out to someone's house and I was bringing her with me and I had to nurse outside in the house.
Speaker: And I was like, I can't bring my
Speaker: pillow.
Speaker: Like that's just, what do I do?
Speaker: And I tried to put all these pillows around me and it was just not the same.
Speaker: It was so uncomfortable.
Speaker: So as much as I could, I brought that thing everywhere.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And did you do any pumping or bottle feeding during that, those 20 months or was it mostly?
Speaker: It was mostly breastfeeding, but I, I,
Speaker: I think I pumped a few times just for the sheer fact that I was like, just in case I go out and somebody else needs to feed her, I want to make sure that I'm not leaving them with nothing.
Speaker: But I was so excited to be a mom that I really didn't want to leave her anywhere.
Speaker: And so I, I just, I was like, have milk, we'll travel.
Speaker: Like, let's go.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: It is so much easier when like, cause I had, I pumped for like the first few weeks and like having to bring the bottles and have the milk and the cooler.
Speaker: And then it's like, oh, well I've got them right here.
Speaker: We're all.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And I know so many people who go through that they pump and then they'll forget to put it into the refrigerator.
Speaker: And then it's like all this wasted milk and it's,
Speaker: it's devastation.
Speaker: So at that point I said, you know what?
Speaker: And my husband wasn't attached to it either way.
Speaker: He didn't care if he could feed her or not.
Speaker: There was other things that he could do with her and play with her and things.
Speaker: So he said, this is all you enjoy.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: When you were breastfeeding her, was there anything in particular you liked to do or like listen to or watch or just even look at her?
Speaker: Like what was sort of your routine while breastfeeding?
Speaker: I loved just looking at her and talking to her.
Speaker: She got older and having that connection.
Speaker: She used to take her hand and put it on my chest and just sort of rest it there.
Speaker: And sometimes she would do the typical, like she would touch my mouth or she would explore my arm.
Speaker: But just to be able to sit, sometimes I would sing.
Speaker: And she's very funny because even now at 12, she still talks to herself as she goes to sleep and she sings to herself as she goes to sleep.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: I don't know if that influenced how she is now because she sings so much, but, or if that's just who she is, but yeah, it was, we, it was any song possible.
Speaker: We would sing Hebrew songs.
Speaker: We would sing English songs.
Speaker: I'd sing Billy Joel and Indigo Girls and, and like everything.
Speaker: We just, they have such an eclectic taste in music because of all of that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's cool.
Speaker: That's really fun.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: When you got to about the 20 months and you weaned, what was that experience like?
Speaker: So I had actually just found out that I was pregnant with my second child.
Speaker: And I had heard of different stories where when people are pregnant, their milk obviously changes a little bit.
Speaker: And I know people that have nursed all the way through and then even nurse both kids at the same time.
Speaker: And your body's incredible because it actually produces the milk that that child needs.
Speaker: But I also had heard that when you are pregnant, that sometimes because your milk changes so much that
Speaker: the child who's still nursing can get constipated, which is almost unheard of because regular breast milk really doesn't do anything with constipation.
Speaker: It actually helps with digestion.
Speaker: So when I was just getting out of my first trimester, I figured at that point I was ready to stop.
Speaker: I needed time in between to rest and say, okay, she's ready.
Speaker: I was really only nursing for like two minutes at a time.
Speaker: And I could tell that she was ready to be done.
Speaker: And so instead of
Speaker: nursing like at night, instead of sitting in the rocking chair and singing our nighttime song while I was nursing her, I would just sit in the rocking chair and rock with her.
Speaker: Um, so she, for weaning, she took it the best out of all three of my kids.
Speaker: She was so easy going at that point.
Speaker: And she was already eating plenty of foods.
Speaker: that it was really just a comfort thing.
Speaker: And once she figured out that the comfort wasn't going away, it was just the nursing part that was going away.
Speaker: She, she didn't put up a fight.
Speaker: She didn't cry.
Speaker: There was no tears like in screaming or anything like that.
Speaker: It was very easy to wean her.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: Just like continuing the tradition, but not having the breastfeeding part and reminding them that, yes, you're still getting the comfort.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And it was so funny because I even remember when my son was born, she really had no recollection that she had nursed ever.
Speaker: And so I remember her saying to me at one point when he was a few months old, she was about two and a half when he was born.
Speaker: And she was very vocal from a very young age.
Speaker: And she was like, he's eating your boobie.
Speaker: And I'm like, you really don't remember, do you?
Speaker: You did the same thing, kid.
Speaker: And it was like six months ago.
Speaker: That's amazing.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Ever in the present moment.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: Also, if you're a breastfeeding mom thinking about breastfeeding or are an underproducer like me, get your hands on my free 10 best breastfeeding and pumping tips because you deserve an easier pain-free experience.
Speaker: Seriously, I want you to feel victorious in your breastfeeding and pumping.
Speaker: So go to mollywriter.com forward slash top 10 milk tips to get your copy today.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Well, let's dig into your next story with your son.
Speaker: He was the easiest to start and the hardest to stop.
Speaker: And it's weird because even though I had only about six months of a break in between when I stopped and when he was born for nursing my daughter and then when he, when I started nursing him,
Speaker: And it's amazing how quickly your body almost forgets that part of it.
Speaker: And so even when he was born for the first, at least two weeks, I was in so much pain.
Speaker: I was so chapped and I actually used the lanolin for the first time.
Speaker: Whereas, you know, they give it to you in the hospital when you come home.
Speaker: I don't even think I knew where I put it when I came home with my daughter and probably because I had the nipple guards to begin with.
Speaker: But for my son, I felt like I couldn't leave anywhere without it.
Speaker: It was in my pocket.
Speaker: It was in the nursing pocket.
Speaker: It was in everything I could possibly find just to make sure I had it with me.
Speaker: But he immediately latched on.
Speaker: He had no problem.
Speaker: problems latching on.
Speaker: And whereas my daughter was very okay with taking a pacifier, I think even now, and he's almost 10, I was his pacifier.
Speaker: He did not want to sleep anywhere besides right next to me.
Speaker: So we co-slept every single night until he was 23 months old.
Speaker: He would wake up at least two hours, even up until he was 23 months old and sometimes more than that.
Speaker: So he was never really getting long stretches of sleep because he was always hungry.
Speaker: He was born with these little chicken legs and
Speaker: so skinny.
Speaker: He wasn't, he was gaining weight normally, but like he just had to eat constantly.
Speaker: So I was his pacifier.
Speaker: And that probably was the hardest, I think for my husband, because it almost felt like he was getting pushed out.
Speaker: Whereas I needed to feed our child, but I also needed to worry about the rest of our family.
Speaker: So it was that weird dichotomy of being like, I love you both, but he needs me more than you do right now.
Speaker: Um, and then when I, when I finally decided to stop nursing him again, I was actually pregnant with my third and we have a big Jewish holiday called Yom Kippur, which is the day of atonement.
Speaker: And you have to fast for 25 hours.
Speaker: So if you ask various different rabbis, a lot of them will say, you know, if you're certain times in your pregnancy, or if you're nursing, it's okay that you eat small amounts.
Speaker: And he was already almost two at that point.
Speaker: And so I really had no excuses.
Speaker: He, he had been a late eater.
Speaker: So he didn't really start eating solid foods until he was like 10 and a half months or so, or 11 months old.
Speaker: And he was almost two.
Speaker: So he'd been eating regular foods for almost a year or I guess about a year.
Speaker: And so I really didn't have any excuse to be like, well, I shouldn't be fasting.
Speaker: I'm not the only sustenance for him.
Speaker: He really can.
Speaker: But the night that it started, he woke up every 40 minutes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I was like, I am not going to survive tomorrow.
Speaker: This is, this is going to be awful.
Speaker: So I slept a lot the next day.
Speaker: My husband was in charge.
Speaker: And that night after the holiday was over, I looked him straight in the eye.
Speaker: And, and when he, we used to call it milkies and he said, milkies.
Speaker: And I said, no more.
Speaker: And he was like, what?
Speaker: that's not possible.
Speaker: And he threw a fit and he threw a fit for three nights.
Speaker: I laid, I still laid next to him.
Speaker: I would fall asleep with him.
Speaker: Every time he would wake up, I would soothe him and say, we're not having more.
Speaker: And I ended up, I think I got him insure because I felt like if he was still waking up, it was not really out of habit.
Speaker: It was probably because he was still hungry.
Speaker: And so when he would wake up, I would get him a bottle and
Speaker: put a straw in the bottle for Ensure.
Speaker: And I'd give him a little bit of that and he would go right back to sleep.
Speaker: And after three nights, he stopped screaming and he would then just ask for whatever Ensure, I forget what we called it, but like chocolate milk or something.
Speaker: And he did that for another probably three months.
Speaker: So I felt like he probably still really was hungry in the middle of the night, but I just couldn't nurse anymore.
Speaker: I was done.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so I'm curious, like I'm at that point now where my daughter is 21 months and we're getting close to wrapping things up, but she still nurses and does and will wake up in the evening.
Speaker: We do a lot of co-sleeping.
Speaker: Once you got him through those three nights, then did he start to sleep longer stretches or was it still...
Speaker: So like I said, for the first three months or so, he definitely was still waking up.
Speaker: I remember the first night he slept, I think, six hours straight.
Speaker: And I ran into the room like, oh, my God, is he still alive?
Speaker: But yeah, once he got used to the fact that I was not going to be there nursing him and he didn't need to get as much sleep.
Speaker: Sustenance in the middle of the night, he started sleeping longer stretches.
Speaker: And now he's actually my best sleeper.
Speaker: He is the fastest to fall asleep.
Speaker: And he's, he sleeps straight through.
Speaker: Like he barely ever wakes up.
Speaker: He only wakes up if he's got to go to the bathroom and he gets up and he does it himself and like goes right back to bed.
Speaker: Whereas my youngest still will tap me on the shoulder and be like, I have to.
Speaker: Okay, so go.
Speaker: So yeah, he's now he's my best sleeper.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: You'll get there.
Speaker: There's hope.
Speaker: There's hope.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Excellent.
Speaker: Outside of the lanolin, is there any other like products or things that really helped with the breastfeeding, especially early on?
Speaker: Yes, your own breast milk.
Speaker: I used to take as right before he would start.
Speaker: And right after he was finished for the first month, I think every single time I would just hand express a tiny bit and rub it around.
Speaker: And then afterwards I wouldn't let anything dry.
Speaker: So when he was done eating, I think I would take a wipe, like a regular Pampers baby wipe and just wipe the area.
Speaker: And then again, hand express a little bit more and, um,
Speaker: Pat it all over the place and let it air dry for just a few minutes.
Speaker: And then that was it.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Breast milk is amazing.
Speaker: It's like the miracle cure for everything.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Including earaches and, oh, what is it called?
Speaker: Where, when the baby gets crushed around their eyes,
Speaker: A clogged tear duct.
Speaker: And also for sore throats.
Speaker: And also for, there was one other one that was like, I can't believe you'd use that.
Speaker: And I don't remember what it was, but definitely the ear infections and the clogged tear ducts.
Speaker: Amazing.
Speaker: So the ear infections, are you literally just dropping it in their ears?
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Just a few drops and you like rub it around it.
Speaker: As long as it's not something that needs antibiotics, which usually it's not, it'll clear up in like 24 hours.
Speaker: That's amazing.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Love it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Breast milk's the best.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, so let's dig into your third story.
Speaker: He, I think overall was the easiest in terms of how he dealt with breastfeeding.
Speaker: Again, super easy to latch now that I had the hang of it.
Speaker: I was like, by my third, I was like, I've got this.
Speaker: Like, whatever.
Speaker: I think I was in the hospital for the shortest amount of time that they would actually let me be in there.
Speaker: And I just wanted to get home.
Speaker: He was born just after midnight and they said they had to keep me for at least five.
Speaker: I want to say it was 18 hours to make sure that my bleeding was under control and that he was latching and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker: So I think I went home at eight o'clock that night.
Speaker: I was like, okay, can I go?
Speaker: I live around the corner.
Speaker: I would just like to go home and get in my own bed and let him sleep.
Speaker: So they let me go.
Speaker: Thank God.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: And yeah, so were all of your births natural births or did you, they were all vaginal.
Speaker: Um, and, and my three that I had on my own, I had an epidural with each one of them.
Speaker: Um, for the surrogate BB, I ended up doing it without an epidural or anything.
Speaker: So, and he was my biggest.
Speaker: So I was like, yes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But yeah, vaginal for all of them.
Speaker: And, and yeah, he just right away, it was easy to get him to nurse.
Speaker: It was easy to get him to latch.
Speaker: We had no issues.
Speaker: And then when he was about 16 months old or so, I got matched with a couple that wanted to have me as a surrogate and they wanted to put me on a very high dosage of birth control because in order to start IVF, you have to have your period regulated.
Speaker: And I got very nervous because I was like, well,
Speaker: If I go on birth control, then it's going to affect my milk, whether or not my milk supply will drop.
Speaker: I wasn't sure, but I was really nervous that whenever hormones were in there would get transferred through the milk.
Speaker: And so I said to them, I need to start weaning because I'm not going to be on birth control and do this at the same time.
Speaker: So, um,
Speaker: They gave me time.
Speaker: I think they gave me about two months.
Speaker: And so by the time he was 18 months old, I started weaning him.
Speaker: I think he was done weaning at that point, but I, I was devastated.
Speaker: Like I wanted to go longer and I knew it was my choice because I wanted to be a surrogate.
Speaker: But at the same time, I was like, I feel like I'm being forced into stopping.
Speaker: Whereas I thought I could have gone longer.
Speaker: And I may, again, I made it special for him too, whereas I weaned him, we would do Ovaltine with whole milk in a bottle.
Speaker: And so that way he still got like a treat and it, and it was time to snuggle with me.
Speaker: And it was time where it was just the two of us.
Speaker: And if, if the other two wanted to help out, they could, but it was really just me and my third, um,
Speaker: And I think that that helped.
Speaker: Like I said, he, he was the easiest.
Speaker: He didn't cry about it.
Speaker: He didn't get upset about it.
Speaker: He would sometimes ask as he got older and he would say milkies.
Speaker: And I would say, no, there's no more.
Speaker: And he would go, okay.
Speaker: And walk away.
Speaker: Or I would say, no, we have chocolate milk now.
Speaker: Remember?
Speaker: And he would say, oh, and, and we'd go to the fridge and he'd get the milk out and he'd want to help.
Speaker: So he was, he was so easy and I was devastated.
Speaker: So it was a very weird thing.
Speaker: switch to be like no no I'm ready to be like no I'm not ready for you to be done yet right right yeah but even still like 17 months is a long time I know and to everybody else is like but you did it over a year I'm like I know but the other two were closer to two mm-hmm
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, that's really sweet.
Speaker: And I love, you're the first who I've heard about, like, kind of making it a little bit of a treat, you know, like in terms of the insurer or the Ovaltine, like it's, it's not, it's milk, but it's not like exactly milk.
Speaker: And so it's like extra special thing at night.
Speaker: I like that little idea.
Speaker: Cause you know, when you get to do breastfeeding, it's, it's a little extra special.
Speaker: So it's
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: And it's that bond that I wanted to make sure they still knew that just because I was not nursing them anymore, that didn't mean anything was going to change about our relationship.
Speaker: Just that this was, this part was going away, but I'm still here and you can still snuggle and you can still sit on my lap and you can still be held like a baby if you needed to.
Speaker: But that part of it, we were outgrowing.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, that's really sweet.
Speaker: Did you know that 90% of mothers felt lonely after having children and 54% felt friendless after giving birth?
Speaker: This according to a recent UK survey of more than 2000 mothers.
Speaker: I can definitely relate.
Speaker: I had a hard time after my daughter was born.
Speaker: which is why I've started my free private Facebook group for Moms Plus called More Milk Please, Strong Supportive Mamas.
Speaker: Come join us at facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash more milk please and find the connection and belonging you desire.
Speaker: Look forward to seeing you there.
Speaker: I'd love to dig into your Sergey story and maybe start a little bit more from the beginning about what interested you in that and how it all came about.
Speaker: So I had told my husband when we first got married, I think even before I was pregnant, I was like, I think I want to be a surrogate.
Speaker: And he was like, can we have our own kids first?
Speaker: So I said, yes, I think that's actually a requirement to be a surrogate, which it is.
Speaker: But I, I just had this feeling that I was going to love being pregnant.
Speaker: I don't know why, but I had this thing that I was like, I know I'm going to love every part of it.
Speaker: And I did.
Speaker: And all of my friends,
Speaker: even they told me after I decided that I wanted to be a surrogate, they had said, you know, some of us said, if we ever wanted another baby, we were going to come to you.
Speaker: And I was like, why didn't you tell me that until now?
Speaker: That's weird.
Speaker: And so.
Speaker: And what's that the case?
Speaker: Did you enjoy all of your pregnancy?
Speaker: I did.
Speaker: I loved every part of it.
Speaker: In fact, my, my second was a week overdue and I, that week was probably the hardest, but then my third was a week early.
Speaker: And I was like,
Speaker: I just got cheated out of a week.
Speaker: So yeah, my friends thought I was crazy.
Speaker: Um, my husband also thinks I'm a little nuts in that respect, but you know, I guess that's what it takes to be a surrogate.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: And so there was a lot that went into the research of being a surrogate because we are Jewish and we're religious.
Speaker: We had to make sure that not only was it something that we could do legally in terms of what the state of California allowed, but also that halakhically, which is according to Jewish law, that it would be okay.
Speaker: So we asked a rabbi and got a lot of different answers that explained the whole process and why it was okay and what it meant for my kids versus what it meant for me and my husband and how we were then connected to this child forever.
Speaker: And we said, it's worth it.
Speaker: I just, I didn't think that I could have a fourth in terms of being able to afford to raise a fourth.
Speaker: And so to be able to bring a life into the world for somebody else who could do it was really an honor for me.
Speaker: Um, and I just felt like it was my calling.
Speaker: So we matched with a couple, um, and that in and of itself is a very long story, but we found a couple that really had the same core beliefs that we did and was also a Jewish couple.
Speaker: And when, when I think it was at the very beginning, before we even talked about the actual IVF process, we were talking about nursing and they said, you know, we want to be able to give our kids the
Speaker: breast milk as long as possible.
Speaker: So even if the mom couldn't do it herself and they lived far away from us at, for as long as I could, I said, I would try and pump for them.
Speaker: And then when it was no longer feasible to get milk to them, they would then find somebody who either overproduced or could donate where they lived and they did.
Speaker: Um, so when we, when I finally had the baby, it was December of 2019.
Speaker: And they were in LA for at least four weeks after he was born.
Speaker: And so that way I was able to pump every day.
Speaker: I started in the hospital with hand expressing.
Speaker: And that was the thing as part of the contract, which most surrogates have is that you're not going to nurse the baby at all, even at the beginning, because there's a different bond that forms at that point.
Speaker: And obviously the baby's theirs.
Speaker: I had no part of it except for the fact that I grew him.
Speaker: He was not from my egg.
Speaker: He was not from my husband's sperm.
Speaker: He was completely theirs.
Speaker: And I didn't want to get involved in that bond.
Speaker: I felt like I was the aunt and I didn't want to change that.
Speaker: So when he first came out, it was very different.
Speaker: And I actually had a doula for his birth because I knew that there was going to be a few things that were different anyway.
Speaker: And I needed that extra support.
Speaker: So she then helped me hand express my
Speaker: And for the first few days, obviously there was very little colostrum that came out, but it was the perfect amount for what he needed.
Speaker: And my body just knew what to do.
Speaker: And so once I got home and I was able to start really pumping, I remember the first time I got more milk than colostrum, I held it up and I was like,
Speaker: this is gold.
Speaker: This is awesome.
Speaker: I just did it.
Speaker: My body still works perfectly.
Speaker: And I was able to get them.
Speaker: And I would even label it because I know some people don't realize, but at nighttime, your, your milk actually has tryptophan in it, which helps the baby sleep.
Speaker: And so I would label whether I nursed in the morning or whether I nursed at night or clumped, I mean, in the morning or at night.
Speaker: So that that way they would know if they were giving him nighttime milk or morning milk.
Speaker: And we did that the entire time they were in LA.
Speaker: And then when they left and went back home, I continued to pump for another month or so before we just realized it was way too expensive to ship it across the country.
Speaker: It was so difficult and stressful and worrying about whether FedEx would lose the package or whether it would still be frozen by the time it got to where they were or whatever.
Speaker: all the other things that come along with that, that we were like, I need to stop.
Speaker: And so I had to then slowly wean myself off of pumping, which I think was probably the hardest part out of every single nursing experience I had, because I didn't, I didn't then know what to do with my milk where I was like, well, I was giving it to this family, but is somebody else going to take it as well?
Speaker: Like what I, you have to go through so many different
Speaker: tests to make sure that you're healthy, to donate your milk to various different NICU programs that I was like, I don't know what to do with it.
Speaker: So I ended up going on to another surrogacy page on Facebook and somebody who had just had a baby through a surrogate close to me said that she was looking for milk.
Speaker: And so I was able to donate what I had to her, which was really special.
Speaker: And I think I had
Speaker: I had like a full cooler worth of milk to give her.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I felt, I felt like at least I wasn't wasting the rest of the pumping journey that I had.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's so cool.
Speaker: And so smart to like, because yeah, like sometimes it's really hard even to get milk from donation companies and things.
Speaker: So I love that you went online and I found them.
Speaker: What can I ask?
Speaker: What pump were you using at the time?
Speaker: Do you remember?
Speaker: Ooh, I don't remember.
Speaker: I have, when I first, I don't even remember the first one, but the first one I have is a powerhouse.
Speaker: And I, it was actually given to me by a friend of mine.
Speaker: Cause it was before insurance covered the fact that you could get a pump.
Speaker: And cause that was, you know, 12 years ago.
Speaker: And so my friend, her daughter is now,
Speaker: She just turned 21.
Speaker: So this pump had been through a lot.
Speaker: She had three kids.
Speaker: She used it for all three of her kids.
Speaker: And it was, you know, one of those big old black backpacks that had the cooler in it and had the cord.
Speaker: But it was a powerhouse.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then, and I, you know, I replaced all of the phalanges and I replaced all the tubes and all that kind of stuff to make sure it was all clean.
Speaker: But then when I knew that insurance would help cover the cost of the pump for the surrogate baby, I was like, well, I might as well get a new one.
Speaker: And then
Speaker: I can donate this one if it still works.
Speaker: And when I'm done using the other one, I can donate that one also.
Speaker: So I did, I don't remember what it was, but I loved both of them.
Speaker: And the second one I got was much smaller.
Speaker: It was updated.
Speaker: It was one that I could like carry in a backpack if I needed to.
Speaker: So it was much easier to take around with us.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's helpful.
Speaker: Especially at that point when you, that is like the main thing that you're doing.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And it wasn't like I had to worry, oh my gosh, is the baby hungry?
Speaker: It was more like, oh, I think I'm full.
Speaker: I should probably pump.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And, and I know back when your daughter was born, you were able to chat with a friend who had just become a lactation specialist.
Speaker: So was she the one who sort of introduced you to like how to size, you know, yourself for the different phalange and that kind of thing, or did that come later?
Speaker: Do you have any recollection?
Speaker: I think that came later by the time I had the surrogate baby and my, so my second
Speaker: child, my, my son who I nursed, he was 23 months old.
Speaker: He wouldn't even take a bottle.
Speaker: So I never, I think I pumped once the entire time I was nursing him.
Speaker: And, um, I remember my dad had come over.
Speaker: My parents live in a different state than we do, but he, my dad happened to be in town and my husband and I had tickets to go see something at the Pantages in LA.
Speaker: And I was like, Oh, good timing.
Speaker: You can actually stay home with my two kids.
Speaker: And I said, I'm going to tell you now he doesn't take a bottle, but he
Speaker: you could certainly try.
Speaker: I have one in the fridge.
Speaker: And I think he took a half an ounce the entire time I was gone.
Speaker: I was gone for like three hours.
Speaker: So when I got home, he was screaming his head off and my dad was like, here, please take him and feed him now.
Speaker: So I definitely did not use a phalange with him in any way, shape or form.
Speaker: Cause that one time pumping, I didn't, I have no idea if it was the right size or not.
Speaker: It worked.
Speaker: And then with the surrogate baby, I think I just tried to test out a few different sizes.
Speaker: I think at that point I knew I already, I knew wanted to become a doula.
Speaker: I had already worked with people in terms of helping them with their breastfeeding journeys, even though I wasn't a lactation consultant, I did a lot of research and
Speaker: And my friends would ask me all the time for different advice on and help and stuff.
Speaker: So I had an idea based off of that, that I knew that everybody has a different size and you need to make sure that you're using the right size because you can end up really chapping your nipples and hurting a lot if you use the wrong size.
Speaker: So I think I just tested out a few different ones and found one that fit.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: It's so important.
Speaker: The other thing I didn't realize was like that your nipples change size as you do it for an extended period of time.
Speaker: So like I started at one size and then a few weeks in it cut me and I was like, oh crap, I gotta change.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And also when the baby's first born, your nipples are huge.
Speaker: And it's really did to act as like a bullseye because all they can see is black and white.
Speaker: And so the fact that your nipple actually gets bigger right after right before you had the baby, and then it's, it stays the same for a few weeks afterwards and then starts to change.
Speaker: It definitely makes a difference.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Fascinating.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I know it's so crazy.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: So with the pump, did you have to like pump out, out and about when you like, I'm curious a little bit about how you handled breastfeeding and pumping in public and what your if you have any tips, what your tips are?
Speaker: So breastfeeding, I did everywhere and anywhere.
Speaker: And I always had a cover just in case I felt uncomfortable, given that we are religious.
Speaker: I am a little bit modest.
Speaker: So I don't necessarily just want to be like,
Speaker: I know it's nursing and I know it's natural, but like, I don't need everybody to see what's going on.
Speaker: So, um, I, I actually nursed my daughter a lot in the air go.
Speaker: Um, that was one of my favorite things to do when I was out and about because she was so comfortable in there and it didn't feel like I was necessarily suffocating her from, from the cover.
Speaker: Like she had plenty of space and she was comfortable and I was comfortable.
Speaker: And then sometimes I would use the cover to go over the air go, just if I felt like the side wasn't as covered and I might be exposed a little bit more with my other two.
Speaker: I always had a nursing cover with me, but I think I also could usually find a place at that point where I
Speaker: at any babies or us, or even in my synagogue or at a restaurant or wherever, like there was always a place that you could go that was private.
Speaker: So like as people, as restaurants and companies and places became more mama friendly.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And I remember like, there was a huge thing in LA about a target that didn't have a bathroom for a mom to nurse in.
Speaker: And so there was a, a,
Speaker: a nurse in literally where everybody just went and sat on the floor.
Speaker: I didn't go cause I couldn't go that day, but it changed a lot.
Speaker: And all of a sudden all these companies were like, Oh yeah, we really should have places for moms to nurse.
Speaker: That's not in the bathroom.
Speaker: Um, so yeah.
Speaker: So at that point it was much, much easier.
Speaker: And then for pumping, because of the fact that I wasn't really on the baby schedule, it was more like, I want to be able to pump every four hours so that I don't lose my milk supply.
Speaker: if I knew I was going to be out and about for longer than that, I would take the pump with me.
Speaker: If I knew that I could get home within that four hour time period, I would leave it at home and just pump when I got home.
Speaker: Um, so there weren't very many times that I felt like I had to take the pump with me.
Speaker: And if I did, again, I just found a quiet place.
Speaker: Like I think at Disneyland one time I had to pump cause we lived in LA.
Speaker: So we were 45 minutes from Disneyland and they have
Speaker: fantastic baby centers.
Speaker: And it doesn't matter if you're nursing or pumping, they've got rocking chairs to sit in and everything.
Speaker: So I remember seeing to them one time, like, I don't have the baby with me, but can I pump?
Speaker: And they said, sure, no problem.
Speaker: Just set your stuff up and here's an outlet, whatever you need.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: That's just good to know that if you go to Disneyland, they are.
Speaker: And Disney world, they have amazing baby centers and they take care of everything.
Speaker: They have diapers and they've got wipes and they've got baby food.
Speaker: And they've, I mean, they have everything rocking chairs and
Speaker: areas for the older kids to play if you need.
Speaker: They're, they're fantastic with that stuff.
Speaker: That's so cool.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Excellent.
Speaker: Well, I know you've named a lot of resources throughout our conversation, but are there any other particular ones that you want to call out?
Speaker: La Leche League is phenomenal and they're all over the country.
Speaker: You can find them online.
Speaker: There are people that volunteer.
Speaker: There's people that work for them.
Speaker: To be able to find a group of moms that are doing the same sort of feeding that you're doing is really helpful at the beginning because while nursing seems like it would be something that should come naturally, sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker: And it can be really hard and it can be
Speaker: It's emotional because you have this whole vision of what it's going to look like.
Speaker: And a lot of times you only see moms and their babies nursing after they get the hang of it, but you're learning just as much as the baby is.
Speaker: And so to really have some sort of organization like La Leche League that can help you and that can connect you with other moms in your area is priceless.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, so true.
Speaker: And, you know, in those early days, like, like you mentioned, eight hours can feel like a lifetime and you have like a screaming child and you're exhausted and you just gave birth and all the things like it's a lot in those first few days.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, thank you.
Speaker: I know you mentioned you knew you wanted to become a doula.
Speaker: Do you want to share a little bit about what you're up to and how you support moms?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: So after I had the surrogate baby, my doula was a huge influence on me.
Speaker: I had actually known her as a friend before.
Speaker: And so when I asked her to be my doula, she's like, are you sure that's okay?
Speaker: We know each other outside of this.
Speaker: And I said, no, it's great.
Speaker: I trust you.
Speaker: I love you.
Speaker: And I would be honored if you were my doula.
Speaker: And then afterwards I said, can you train me?
Speaker: And she said,
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: So she actually does trainings.
Speaker: And so I, I trained with her, obviously with COVID, everything got messed up.
Speaker: So we were the first zoom class to be trained.
Speaker: And then when we were allowed to meet in person, we finally did hands-on training, which was amazing.
Speaker: But yeah,
Speaker: I love being able to support moms in birth.
Speaker: I am a doula here in Orlando if anybody needs.
Speaker: But I also, after I went through the first surrogacy, we knew that we wanted to do it again.
Speaker: And when I was cleared to be able to do it with obviously understanding COVID and making sure my body had healed from the first pregnancy,
Speaker: I went through an IVF transfer, but I lost the baby at 16 weeks and five days.
Speaker: And so that really left an imprint on me and totally changed my direction because I couldn't find the resources that I needed after a miscarriage.
Speaker: And I didn't know if it was different because it wasn't my baby and I was the surrogate, or if it was the same just because of the fact that my body was still going through all the same things that somebody does in a miscarriage and a pregnancy loss.
Speaker: And so I then set out to really create resources that would be available.
Speaker: And so I put together a pregnancy loss workbook, which was resources that I found that were helpful for me with journaling and some coloring and some...
Speaker: really just getting your, your various phases of grief on paper, and then sometimes being able to shred them and get rid of them.
Speaker: It was so, so helpful and so therapeutic.
Speaker: And I felt like, because I didn't create a child, I, this was like, I almost treated it like my baby where I was like,
Speaker: It means so much to me.
Speaker: So if anybody needs help with pregnancy loss, I have with the workbook, I now have a whole toolkit that goes along with it.
Speaker: That just has items to let the mom know that they're not alone.
Speaker: Um, and also somebody else can, can get it for them so that that way it's like a way of a partner or a grandparent or an aunt helping to support the person going through the loss.
Speaker: And then I started the podcast pushing through loss.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: because I wanted to like you in terms of creating that safe space for moms to be able to tell their stories.
Speaker: I just felt like nobody was talking about pregnancy loss.
Speaker: Nobody, all of a sudden, when I said that I had gone through it, I had a bunch of friends say, oh yeah, I experienced a miscarriage also, or I went through a late term pregnancy loss or whatever it was.
Speaker: And I was like, why does nobody talk about this?
Speaker: If I had known what to go through before I went through it, I don't know if it would have been as traumatic as that, as what I went through.
Speaker: And so
Speaker: I really wanted to create that safe space to be able to say one in four pregnancies ends in loss.
Speaker: What can we do about discussing it?
Speaker: What can we do about supporting each other and creating a community around that?
Speaker: But also then in terms of healing and saying this doesn't define you and you still have to live, which is a really hard statement to hear when you've just lost a child.
Speaker: Um, but your life is still important and your life still matters.
Speaker: And there's a lot of ways that you can continue and keep that baby's memory alive and keep that honor with you wherever you go.
Speaker: So that was really the impetus behind creating my podcast.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: It's so important to like bring these conversations out into the light instead of like suffering on our own in the moment, not knowing.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And to know what resources there are for pregnancy loss, because so many people talk about what do you do during pregnancy and how do you take care of yourself and how do you take care of the baby?
Speaker: And then what do you do after you have the baby?
Speaker: And then it was like,
Speaker: But what happens if I don't have the baby?
Speaker: Nobody talks about what happens with all of that.
Speaker: So to be able to just say, okay, I'm going to Google something and it shows up, they can start listening and say, oh, what I'm going through is totally normal.
Speaker: Or maybe I need help from a therapist or whatever it might be.
Speaker: Totally, totally.
Speaker: And there's something so powerful too about like hearing stories, because sometimes in those moments, it's really hard to hear advice, but like hearing, hearing people's experiences can really just help you feel less alone.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Well, Kalila, this has been amazing.
Speaker: Thank you so much for joining.
Speaker: I do have just some final rapid fire fun questions to ask you if you don't mind.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: I'm curious when your kid when you were sort of first transitioning your kids to foods like Whole Foods, what were some of the early things that you tried with them?
Speaker: I did everything.
Speaker: My first with my daughter, we did the little baby food pouches.
Speaker: We did, I made my own baby food with butternut squash and with peas and with carrots.
Speaker: And then I was like, this is way too much.
Speaker: I'm just going to do baby led weaning.
Speaker: And from that moment on, I was like, whatever I'm making for my husband and myself, that's what she's getting.
Speaker: It's just getting cut up smaller and made into mush.
Speaker: So I did.
Speaker: And she loved it.
Speaker: And now she eats pretty much anything.
Speaker: That child literally sushi to pizza to steak, like everything.
Speaker: Um, and every vegetable and fruit on the face of the earth, my son, he's a little bit more of a picky eater.
Speaker: I think it just goes because he took so long to eat in the first place, but I did baby led weaning with him also mainly because he already had almost a full set of teeth by the time he was ready to eat anyway.
Speaker: And so for him, it was just the process of learning how to feed himself as opposed to just nursing.
Speaker: And then with my third, also by that point, I was like, you're the third year along for the ride.
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: Here's some Cheerios.
Speaker: Here's some peppers.
Speaker: Here's some cucumbers.
Speaker: Like whatever we have lying around is what you're getting.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And he, of course, has two older siblings.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Who were gladly like, here, we don't want this.
Speaker: You want to do it?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Dropping things and he's coming along behind.
Speaker: Totally.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Are you a morning or a night person?
Speaker: Oh, I am 100% a morning person, which is why I am bright-eyed and bushy-tailed this morning.
Speaker: I had to get up for a very early flight and I'm like, I'm good.
Speaker: And then I know at three o'clock this afternoon, I'm going to be like, oh my gosh, I need a nap.
Speaker: Totally.
Speaker: I'm a morning person.
Speaker: Do I hear you?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, coffee, tea, something else.
Speaker: What's your coffee?
Speaker: 100% coffee.
Speaker: Can you, it's a friend's mug.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: I yes.
Speaker: Coffee all the way.
Speaker: Excellent.
Speaker: Um, and when your kids were little, what was your kind of go-to recharge activity?
Speaker: I needed to see the water.
Speaker: So the beach living in LA was so close.
Speaker: It felt like forever because traffic took forever, but we were like seven miles from the beach.
Speaker: So going to various different beaches that had kid-friendly areas with splash pads and playgrounds was phenomenal.
Speaker: Disney, obviously also, I lived 45 minutes from Disneyland and now I live 20 minutes from Disney World.
Speaker: That's like my happy place.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And just being with other moms that were going through the same thing that I did.
Speaker: I took each of my kids to my gym and I made some of the best friends there that I have ever had.
Speaker: I love them.
Speaker: I keep in touch with them on Facebook, even though we're all over the country now.
Speaker: And I just, I, that was like my, my solace once a week of being like, ah, somebody else can help with my child for an hour and I can still play with her, but I don't have to be like totally hands-on all the time.
Speaker: Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Did your kids have favorite bedtime story or did you have a favorite story you like to read them?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: My daughter read Muba La La La by Sandra Boynton so many times that I can remember.
Speaker: I have the whole thing memorized.
Speaker: Even now, 12 years later, I can still tell you the whole book and it's like falling apart.
Speaker: We've taped it back together a hundred times.
Speaker: And also my mom had gone to Israel when I think I was pregnant with my second child and she picked up a whole bunch of
Speaker: regular English stories, but they were in Hebrew.
Speaker: So good night moon in Hebrew, which is called is like one of our other favorite books.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: There are so many iterations of good night when it's very fun.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: We also, we like the good night or good night iPhone, good night, Apple, whatever it's called that we love that one.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And is there something that your husband did that like just really helped you out or relieved your burden?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: When, when my, specifically with my daughter, I said to him when she cried, especially for the first six to nine months or so, every time she cried, I could like feel it physically.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, and so I, I felt like a physical ailment almost.
Speaker: And so when she would start to really scream, I would, I would just hand her to him and walk out the front door for five minutes and just take some fresh air and say, I can't hear her.
Speaker: I just need a break for myself.
Speaker: And then when I came back in, whether he could calm her down or not, didn't matter.
Speaker: I was calm at that point.
Speaker: And so I could then handle the situation better.
Speaker: Um, so he was a huge help because he, the crying didn't get to him as much.
Speaker: So he was like, sure.
Speaker: Bring her on.
Speaker: And then as, as I had my other two, he's really good with older kids.
Speaker: So he was like, I'll take the big ones.
Speaker: Like if you had the baby, I'm good with the bigger ones.
Speaker: I'll keep them occupied.
Speaker: I'll go kick a soccer ball.
Speaker: I'll take them outside.
Speaker: I'll put them on the trampoline, whatever.
Speaker: So he was fantastic with that.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's so helpful.
Speaker: Especially it sounds like with your second who just like to be on the boob the entire time.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And my daughter has a very close relationship with her father now.
Speaker: So it's really sweet.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Well, how can listeners connect with you or what's the best platform to reach out?
Speaker: Instagram definitely is the best one.
Speaker: I think I'm on there.
Speaker: I feel like all the time, but I, it's like a love hate relationship as, as most people feel.
Speaker: Um, but my, my name on Instagram is ours and yours.
Speaker: Um, the YRS part is actually my daughter's initials.
Speaker: So I thought that was really cute to make it like mine and yours, but instead of mine, it's ours.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So it's spelled O U R S A N D Y R S.
Speaker: Or you can always find me on my website, which is kalilagreenspeaker.com.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Well, thank you so much for being here.
Speaker: This has been such a pleasure.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: I loved it.
Speaker: It was so much fun.
Speaker: Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker: If you've enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, leave a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts and share with a fellow Mama Plus.
Speaker: And if you're interested in coming on to share your own baby feeding story, head to mollyrider.com and click on share your story.
Speaker: Thanks.
Speaker: See you next week.
Speaker: Bye.
