014 - Quadruple Feeding a Newborn with Down Syndrome

Transcript

Speaker: One, two, boobies.

Speaker: One, two, boobies.

Speaker: One, two, boobies.

Speaker: One, boobies.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Hi everyone, I'm your host, Molly Ryder.

Speaker: Welcome to the podcast, More Milk Please, baby feeding stories from Moms Plus, like me and you.

Speaker: This podcast is designed to be a safe space for women plus to come together and share baby feeding stories.

Speaker: Whether you are expecting or thinking about having kids, a mom, non-binary, an aunt, grandma, or a caregiver, you are welcome.

Speaker: because we hear it all.

Speaker: From breastfeeding and pumping to tube feeding, bottles, formula, frozen milk, and weaning, our worldwide community is here, connecting over some of our most nerve-wracking and intimate moments.

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Speaker: Oh my goodness, my mom's plus.

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Speaker: And I so appreciate hearing your thoughts.

Speaker: So if you could please leave a comment, that'd be amazing.

Speaker: I check and read them all and feel immense joy over each one.

Speaker: So thank you.

Speaker: Thank you.

Speaker: So much love and hugs.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: Today, I am so excited to be interviewing Danielle Kowleski of Danielle Scrunchy Kids.

Speaker: Danielle has a daughter and I'm very excited for her to share her story.

Speaker: Welcome, Danielle.

Speaker: Thank you so much for coming on to More Milk, Please.

Speaker: Thank you for having me.

Speaker: I'm excited.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Awesome.

Speaker: Well, to start off, can you just share a little bit about you and your family?

Speaker: Yes, of course.

Speaker: So we live in Wisconsin.

Speaker: I don't know if you hear my accent.

Speaker: A lot of people say it.

Speaker: Just the way you say it.

Speaker: I was a teacher for about five years total.

Speaker: I did daycare pretty much my whole life.

Speaker: My mom grew up with daycare, so I've always worked around kids.

Speaker: But we moved here in 2020 right after everything happened.

Speaker: Took us like forever to close on our property, but we've got 50 acres.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: Congratulations.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So we have a little homestead here.

Speaker: We've got, you know, some cows and some horses and a donkey that my daughter rides, which she loves him.

Speaker: We got chickens, you know, all of the shit.

Speaker: We got a wood stove.

Speaker: I got a babysit.

Speaker: It's busy.

Speaker: So, yeah.

Speaker: My husband actually works out of state most of the days of the week and he comes home on weekends.

Speaker: And so it's just me and my daughter for the most part.

Speaker: But I also have a little mini daycare here.

Speaker: So like I've got two kids during the day.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And that's a lot.

Speaker: It is a lot.

Speaker: And a lot of people tell me I'm so good at multitasking, which I'm like, you know, maybe I am.

Speaker: So I think it's the teacher in me, you know, but obviously I don't teach anymore.

Speaker: Had my daughter in August of 2021.

Speaker: And obviously, it was still during the pandemic, technically, so we couldn't have any visitors or anything.

Speaker: And she had an unexpected birth diagnosis of Down syndrome.

Speaker: And so we had no idea.

Speaker: I just didn't want the testing.

Speaker: It was my first daughter.

Speaker: I was 34 when I had her.

Speaker: So I was like, oh, what are the chances?

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: I was scared.

Speaker: It was a grieving process for sure.

Speaker: And I think all moms that go through this and dads, obviously, they go through that and that's okay.

Speaker: And I just want to share a little piece of that because you don't expect, you have a picture of what your life was going to look like and things change, especially with breastfeeding.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Now, like I said, I'm not a teacher anymore.

Speaker: I just have a little daycare and

Speaker: I have a little hobby business on the side where I make string art.

Speaker: I don't know if you can see in my video about this on the wall here.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: My daughter's name.

Speaker: That's all in nails and string.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: And like people who want to order them or whatever.

Speaker: It's not a big thing that I do.

Speaker: I just honestly, it rounds me.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I love it.

Speaker: On top of everything, you're an artist.

Speaker: That's amazing.

Speaker: So I'm a busy girl.

Speaker: Are they on Etsy or where do you, where can people find them?

Speaker: I actually have an Etsy account.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I didn't even think to tell you guys about that, but it's handy, Danny string art, which we can talk about at the end, but it's very fun.

Speaker: And then I like help people swap out toxic products in their home for stuff.

Speaker: So just another thing.

Speaker: So important.

Speaker: Yeah, busy.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Hey, you know, just all those things.

Speaker: I love it.

Speaker: You know, well, since we're really focusing in on the baby feeding experience here, I'd love for you to share before your daughter was born, what was your knowledge or experience like with breastfeeding?

Speaker: Did you...

Speaker: study it?

Speaker: Were you nervous about it?

Speaker: Excited?

Speaker: Dreading?

Speaker: I was excited and I was like prepared.

Speaker: I felt like I was prepared, but I also, you know, I was given this big book.

Speaker: Oh my gosh, it's the yellow book.

Speaker: I can't remember what it's called.

Speaker: Like mother breastfeeding, the nursing handbook or something like that.

Speaker: It was called

Speaker: And I kind of skimmed a little bit here and there.

Speaker: My friends had told me like, maybe you should, you know, collect some colostrum is really good for your baby.

Speaker: And like I said, I didn't know she would need it, but I started collecting colostrum.

Speaker: Like, I don't know.

Speaker: I think it was like 37 or 38 weeks when I started to try to, excuse me, try doing that.

Speaker: But yeah.

Speaker: So I researched it, but I didn't, I just researched it as I kind of went.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And go like too deep into it because I didn't want to overwhelm myself or freak myself out or, you know.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: When you collected the colostrum, were you hand expressing or did you get your pump out and start trying to use that?

Speaker: I hand expressed.

Speaker: I try, I did try using like a hand, like a haka.

Speaker: I tried using haka, but haka was not working for me and I didn't know what I was doing with it.

Speaker: So I'm like, I don't, like I said, I have on 50 acres.

Speaker: So like, we're very rural.

Speaker: We don't have a lot of people around.

Speaker: It really like helped me.

Speaker: And plus it was kind of weird being my first kid and you know.

Speaker: Yeah, totally.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: It's a lot.

Speaker: Cool.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: So then, you know, let's get into the moment she was born and you shared a little bit about that already, but you had mentioned that it was unmedicated.

Speaker: So I'd love for you to share about that experience.

Speaker: Well, it was up until a point.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: We were going for a home birth because, like I said, I live out here in the middle of nowhere.

Speaker: I just kind of figured I would find a good midwife.

Speaker: And she had like birthed over seven, eight hundred babies.

Speaker: So I knew that this was going to be good.

Speaker: It was going to be comfortable with her.

Speaker: She was going to have all of the tools and some help.

Speaker: And she was going to come to me.

Speaker: So I was like, OK, let's do this.

Speaker: I'm ready.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I had a pool all set up.

Speaker: We actually never ended up filling it.

Speaker: I just didn't want it.

Speaker: I didn't want to be in the pool.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I just wanted to stay in bed.

Speaker: Nice.

Speaker: It's so crazy how that, you know, works out.

Speaker: You have all these visions and you're just like, nah, I don't want that anymore.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: We did labor in home for 20 hours.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: And I just remember feeling my water breaking, like, holy cow, that I just felt the tap.

Speaker: It was so weird.

Speaker: Like I knew, I knew, but it just kind of trickled, which was, you know, it wasn't like a burst.

Speaker: It was just kind of a trickle and more throughout the day.

Speaker: And I learned that it's like a different spot.

Speaker: that it, you know, the wet where your water breaks that that makes versus the gush, you know, yeah.

Speaker: Interesting.

Speaker: Later on in podcasts.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Um, but so like I said, we labor for 20 hours and my midwife, midwife came to check me and she felt a little foot and I was eight centimeters.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: Hey, well, we, she was fine and she flipped reach, obviously, which can happen a very rare case.

Speaker: Um, but we, she tried to call multiple different midwives to come and help and she just wanted some help.

Speaker: You know, she just had this gut feeling, which I appreciate more than anything that intuition is.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Well, we ended up going to the hospital.

Speaker: My husband was here.

Speaker: I didn't want anybody here.

Speaker: But his parents were here as well.

Speaker: And my mom was here.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: Just because like they drove up two hours to hang out with us and help with some stuff around the house, help my husband.

Speaker: And so I was a little irritated that they were all here, but it was also okay in the end because they helped us get to the hospital.

Speaker: Oh, good.

Speaker: Oh, good.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Did labor start early or was it late in terms of your due date?

Speaker: It was like 2 a.m.

Speaker: that labor started.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And I was like, oh, you know, just felt like period cramps, you know, that came and went.

Speaker: And I'm just like, be fine.

Speaker: I'll get up and eat some oatmeal at like, I don't know, 6 a.m.

Speaker: And I started like really, they started, you know, getting closer together and harder and

Speaker: I had read and listened to so many podcasts about laboring at home.

Speaker: So I felt prepared.

Speaker: I had my music playing when it was time and I was low and moaning and whatever, breathing really well.

Speaker: My midwife actually said that I labored up to eight centimeters wonderfully.

Speaker: It's just how she flipped.

Speaker: And we had no idea, like I said, that she was going to need a little extra help.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: But we went in and I did end up having a C-section, which was, I was really mad about it for a while.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I grieved it for a while, but I was also grieving my child too and her diagnosis and she needed it.

Speaker: some oxygen right away, like the next morning.

Speaker: She slept all night.

Speaker: She latched away, I thought.

Speaker: Oh, wow.

Speaker: I thought.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Yes, yes.

Speaker: I didn't know what I was doing, but they said, she looks great.

Speaker: She's latching.

Speaker: I'm like, oh my gosh, great.

Speaker: Wonderful.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: My husband ended up driving back home to get the colostrum and all of that stuff.

Speaker: And then we went to the NICU.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So did you go to the NICU because she came out early or because of her diagnosis?

Speaker: No, she was actually right on time.

Speaker: Like she was 39 weeks and like four days.

Speaker: So she was perfect.

Speaker: She was, it was just because she had low oxygen and her diagnosis of Down syndrome.

Speaker: So with Down syndrome,

Speaker: The low oxygen part is usually a heart defect.

Speaker: And she did end up having a heart defect and had two holes in her heart.

Speaker: So we were there for 30 days.

Speaker: And her feeding was the main reason why we were there.

Speaker: Because she was okay.

Speaker: Like her oxygen levels ended up stabling out.

Speaker: She didn't need any extra anything except a G-tube or feeding tube, I should say.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Eating to go through her nose and she didn't have any jaundice.

Speaker: She didn't have, you know, any of those extra things.

Speaker: She just couldn't feed.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Well, let's back up a moment.

Speaker: And so you have a C-section and she's born.

Speaker: And so was she, were you able to hold her right away or did they take her?

Speaker: And you mentioned that you tried breastfeeding.

Speaker: I thought it worked.

Speaker: How did that all go?

Speaker: Yeah, they, so I did hold her right away.

Speaker: And I was very, I was just, I never wanted to be in the hospital, nothing against the hospital.

Speaker: I just needed to be home.

Speaker: Like, and I respect Western medicine, obviously don't get me wrong.

Speaker: Like she, she needed it, but I like to do everything as holistically as possible.

Speaker: And so I wanted to do

Speaker: know skin on skin right away and um just to get my breast milk flowing and you know hormones and all that stabilized so i was able to do that we spent like i want to say 12 hours together and then they did end up taking her from me which was the hardest 24 hours of my life yeah really hard trying to fight back tears right now thinking about it actually

Speaker: They took her by ambulance, but it was like med flight, they called it.

Speaker: So it was like fast.

Speaker: I'm like yelling at my husband, don't leave her.

Speaker: Don't leave her side.

Speaker: Be with her.

Speaker: It was horrible.

Speaker: The most horrible experience I've ever went through.

Speaker: I don't wish that upon anybody.

Speaker: But after those 24 hours, I was able to leave and I stayed with her in her NICU room.

Speaker: Luckily, I don't know how you pictured NICU, but when I pictured NICU before, it was a room of all these babies in their own beds next to each other.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: That's not how our NICU was at all.

Speaker: We had our own room.

Speaker: Oh, wow.

Speaker: Like a room this size.

Speaker: Amazing.

Speaker: Really amazing.

Speaker: And everybody was so great.

Speaker: It was at the best hospital in our state.

Speaker: Nice.

Speaker: So was she transferred because there wasn't a NICU at the hospital you started at?

Speaker: Or why was she moved?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: They, because where we live so rurally, we don't have resources here.

Speaker: And so we did have to go to Madison, Wisconsin, where it was just an hour and a half away.

Speaker: So it wasn't terrible.

Speaker: And that's where they have all the resources for kids with Down syndrome and defects and all of the things that she's going to need.

Speaker: They wanted her to have the best care.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And so, and feel free to stop me.

Speaker: I'm just curious and I really appreciate you sharing.

Speaker: I'm wondering about at that 12 hour mark, was it because at that point they realized she wasn't feeding or what made the decision to move her?

Speaker: It was her oxygen levels.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I don't think anybody was really watching me and her and her feeding.

Speaker: Maybe they were.

Speaker: Maybe I was just completely out of it.

Speaker: Sorry.

Speaker: You just gave birth after 20 hours of labor.

Speaker: Yeah, and because she did end up getting, they gave her a feeding tube, must have been overnight because I didn't even, I don't even remember them doing it.

Speaker: So, but yeah, it was the oxygen levels that sparked, that flagged her to go.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So she moves and are you able to follow her pretty quickly or how long did you have to stay where you were?

Speaker: I was there for 24 hours at the hospital that I birthed at and they took her.

Speaker: Her dad stayed with her and her actually her grandma was able to stay with her as well.

Speaker: So she did have to, you know, he had support from his mom.

Speaker: So which was really, really, really nice.

Speaker: They let it slide.

Speaker: They said, because I was, that's nice.

Speaker: Yeah, I was able to watch her on a little video camera, though, which was still very heartbreaking.

Speaker: But my husband was constantly video chatting with me back and forth, like, here's baby, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker: But I'm still trying to heal.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And then I just got cut open.

Speaker: And I've heard that women, particularly within the first 40 days of birth, you're biologically inclined to desire intensely to be with your child.

Speaker: And anytime you're apart, it just feels so traumatizing.

Speaker: So to be taken right away, I can only imagine just not only...

Speaker: do you feel that way?

Speaker: But like your body is just physically saying like, get me back to my child.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: It was very hard.

Speaker: My mom actually stayed with me in the hospital.

Speaker: They let her, they let it slide.

Speaker: They said.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Cause this is what 2021.

Speaker: So like still all the COVID issues are, you know, like making it even more challenging.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So his mom was with him.

Speaker: My mom was with me and I was just

Speaker: I was a wreck.

Speaker: But if I didn't have her, I don't know what I would have done.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I had her.

Speaker: That first shower, I'm telling you, it was painful.

Speaker: Just to get out of the bed.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I did not have a C-section on anybody either.

Speaker: But everybody's pain tolerance is different, I suppose.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Well, it's a long recovery too, which is not fun.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: So when you were discharged at 24 hours, were you able to go straight to the hospital where she was or did you have to wait till the next day?

Speaker: I was able to go straight to her and that elevator still triggers a little bit of PTSD because we still go there quite often for her appointments and such.

Speaker: But yeah, I went right to her room and

Speaker: I was with her the whole time.

Speaker: We actually, him and I ended up sleeping at the Ronald McDonald house, which was right around the corner.

Speaker: Oh, nice.

Speaker: And literally right around the corner and walking distance.

Speaker: So amazing.

Speaker: We were able to go back there and eat free food.

Speaker: And obviously I got free food as well because I was breastfeeding her.

Speaker: They did have to use donor milk for that first 24 hours that she wasn't with me.

Speaker: She did drink all of my colostrum as well.

Speaker: So I was so glad I had like a handful of syringes and I was so glad that I did that.

Speaker: I'm not, it was a just in case.

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: We never know.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: And here we are.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Oh, so good.

Speaker: And I love that they use donor milk instead of just immediately giving her formula.

Speaker: That's awesome.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: And I had to sign something electronically because I wasn't there, obviously, just to give her that.

Speaker: And because we weren't married at the time, we just got married in October.

Speaker: So like, of course, like, yeah, that's her father.

Speaker: But before everything is filled out, I had to do it all, you know?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, the donor milk was a big help.

Speaker: And knowing that it's tested there too, is just, that was very comforting.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I was like, yes, please, breast milk only.

Speaker: I don't want to give her any formula if I don't have to.

Speaker: I mean, obviously, it comes to a point where, you know, I respect everybody who uses formula.

Speaker: It's not like that at all.

Speaker: It's just, she needs it.

Speaker: She needs breast milk.

Speaker: She needs those, you know.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: All of those.

Speaker: All of the antibodies and things that come with it.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Especially with her.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I was a mess.

Speaker: I was a mess.

Speaker: For those who don't know, can you share a little bit about the Ronald McDonald House?

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: So...

Speaker: They have them all over, all over the United States.

Speaker: I actually never even knew about it until I had to use it.

Speaker: It's a beautiful facility.

Speaker: It almost looks like a big apartment complex, but on the inside.

Speaker: Um, they, you walk right in and they're so helpful.

Speaker: Basically anybody who has a child who needs some medical care, surgery, NICU stays, anything like that.

Speaker: Um, they're usually placed right next to a hospital or sometimes they're even within the hospital.

Speaker: They have like a little area as well.

Speaker: So just depends on your area and your hospitals and stuff.

Speaker: But ours was a huge like apartment complex.

Speaker: They had, they even had a lactation room in there.

Speaker: Oh, so nice.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: in the middle of the night, you know, every three hours and pump for her when overnight I would get up probably, well, once in the middle of the night, sometimes twice, depends on how I slept at the NICU.

Speaker: Cause I just pumped right there in the room too.

Speaker: You know, just, it was so, so nice to be able to just get up, go get some food, go get a snack, pump, and then go back to bed without, you know, waking my husband who, you

Speaker: he needs just as much sleep, you know, I'm, he needs to be there for me for this whole healing process.

Speaker: And he's also grieving and has some PTSD going on.

Speaker: So, you know, he needs to sleep too.

Speaker: And so it's nice that I could wake up and do my thing, you know, they were very accommodating.

Speaker: They brought in fruit, like fresh foods, catered in fresh homemade, they had huge kitchen where they just have volunteers come in and cook

Speaker: fresh meals for us amazing every day it's it was awesome and it was I felt like the food was I almost felt guilty sometimes eating it because it was so beautiful and like it was just an experience I I'm so glad that we did with yeah

Speaker: Yeah, especially being so far away.

Speaker: Like, it's so nice that you could stay there and still be so close.

Speaker: And then also get some of that pampering that like you really need and deserve right after having baby.

Speaker: The other good thing is I actually went to Whole Foods after probably the first week, I think.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: One thing I did, I kind of forgot I prepared for breastfeeding is my cookies, my lactation cookies.

Speaker: Oh, nice.

Speaker: Yeast and flaxseed.

Speaker: I froze the dough in balls so I could just pull them out and cook them.

Speaker: He went home because we didn't have any bags packed or anything.

Speaker: He went home and grabbed all of our bags while we were staying at the Ronald McDonald house.

Speaker: And he grabbed all my cookies and

Speaker: We were completely open to use the oven, everything that they had there, all the cookware and everything.

Speaker: So I made my cookies at the Ronald McDonald house and ate them.

Speaker: I love that.

Speaker: Oh my gosh.

Speaker: It was really great.

Speaker: So you're saying you use brewer's yeast and flaxseed in them?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And I think that was like the two biggest ingredients that I have...

Speaker: a whole Pinterest on lactation tricks and tips.

Speaker: Okay, cool.

Speaker: Pinterest queen.

Speaker: Excellent.

Speaker: Awesome.

Speaker: Oh, that's neat.

Speaker: I love that.

Speaker: I love that they just let you use the ovens and that you could make them and then of course utilize them.

Speaker: Did you need to like bring and use your own pump?

Speaker: Did they have one there for you?

Speaker: And then also when you're at the hospital, did you use like the hospital pump or how did that go?

Speaker: I never brought my pump from home.

Speaker: Well, no, I didn't.

Speaker: I didn't use, they had a hospital grade Medela pump, both the same exact one at both facilities.

Speaker: Oh, amazing.

Speaker: So, and they gave me all of this stuff to pump.

Speaker: They're just like, here, do you need these?

Speaker: I'm like, yes, I do.

Speaker: And I don't know what I'm doing.

Speaker: So they actually had a lactation consultant come in and be with me at the hospital.

Speaker: And so I, I,

Speaker: I mean, it was a learning curve, don't get me wrong.

Speaker: After a few days, I had it down because I was pretty much pumping exclusively.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: If you're a breastfeeding mom thinking about breastfeeding or are an underproducer like me, get your hands on my free 10 best breastfeeding and pumping tips because you deserve an easier pain-free experience.

Speaker: Seriously, I want you to feel victorious in your breastfeeding and pumping.

Speaker: So go to mollywriter.com forward slash top 10 milk tips to get your copy today.

Speaker: And so how did things go with the pumping?

Speaker: Like, do you find you were kind of a normal producer, under producer, over producer?

Speaker: How did it all feel?

Speaker: I would say over.

Speaker: I'm an over producer for sure.

Speaker: But I think the amount that I pumped and I was just so terrified of not having enough.

Speaker: I just kept going.

Speaker: I just kept pumping.

Speaker: I ended up actually donating quite a bit later on because I just had so much.

Speaker: It couldn't fit in my freezer.

Speaker: Oh, that's awesome.

Speaker: I was an overproducer for sure.

Speaker: And I was, it was uncomfortable, but I never really had any crazy issues.

Speaker: I just, like I told you before, like I just kind of researched as I went as something different.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: You know, a little bit on how to avoid like mastitis or, you know, any kind of lumps or anything.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: But I just kind of went and I almost quit a few times.

Speaker: I'm not going to lie.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Well, exclusively pumping is like a huge deal.

Speaker: So you all deserve medals.

Speaker: Like kudos to you because that is a lot.

Speaker: So much.

Speaker: So we, I didn't just,

Speaker: So this is where that quadruple feeding thing came in.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Please share.

Speaker: So she, I tried breastfeeding every day, every feed.

Speaker: Good for you.

Speaker: Like, and sometimes she would get some, sometimes she would do so good.

Speaker: Sometimes we'd have to use a nipple cover, you know, just to kind of help.

Speaker: And sometimes I would have to fill the nipple cover and get my letdown going.

Speaker: But she did so good on some days and some days she didn't.

Speaker: Up until three months old, that was when her, the sucking reflex, like that kind of went away, which was, I'd never even knew that was possible.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Babies are born with that reflex to just suck.

Speaker: They just instinct.

Speaker: They just know what to do.

Speaker: You don't have to.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Well, in her going full term, she was able to practice it a lot in utero, just like drinking your amniotic fluid.

Speaker: I started with nursing.

Speaker: We tried nursing every feed.

Speaker: And then we would get out a bottle.

Speaker: And I can't tell you how many bottles I have in this house.

Speaker: I have so many different kinds, so many different nipples, so many different size nipples.

Speaker: But she just didn't get it.

Speaker: You know, it was really hard.

Speaker: But one day she would drink one ounce and one day she would drink three ounces.

Speaker: But then the next day she'd be like, I can't do this.

Speaker: I'm too tired.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And it was all because of her heart mostly.

Speaker: Oh, interesting.

Speaker: So they tried to explain it as running a marathon without the training.

Speaker: like you wouldn't do, you know?

Speaker: So her heart doesn't have that training to feed because it actually takes so much out of her having those two holes, you know, that leaky heart.

Speaker: And it was heartbreaking to watch her, you know, just be so tired and exhausted.

Speaker: And her face was even kind of swollen, you know, like,

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: First, it was all babies.

Speaker: But after she had her heart surgery, it was like, which we can get there later.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: But you can see the difference.

Speaker: So let me go back.

Speaker: I just keep.

Speaker: First, we tried nursing.

Speaker: Then we would try the bottle.

Speaker: I would pump for her.

Speaker: Usually I always have some already.

Speaker: Obviously I'm the bottles there.

Speaker: I've got four ounces that warmed up that she needs that I've already pumped previously.

Speaker: So while I'm tube feeding her the rest of whatever she didn't drink, I'm pumping.

Speaker: So yeah.

Speaker: So I still got the stimulation that my body needed and she needed, but it wasn't her that was taking all of my milk.

Speaker: I was the pump.

Speaker: And I think that was kind of the main reason why I produced so much too, because-

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: I don't know if the pump's stronger.

Speaker: I don't, I don't know.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Well, probably the combination too, right.

Speaker: Of getting her to, you know, latch occasionally and then also pumping that helps so much.

Speaker: So we did have a lot of resources that were given to us at me at the hospital books.

Speaker: And like I said, a lactation consultant as well.

Speaker: And then I found a bunch of books on the side as well to help during this whole process of trying to figure this out with my daughter because there's not a lot out there on Down syndrome.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Their tongues, their mouths are a little bit smaller in general.

Speaker: So their tongues are, they hang out a lot.

Speaker: more often as you see.

Speaker: So, and that's mostly low muscle tone.

Speaker: So like she can, she can't control her tongue as much as we can.

Speaker: It's just as strong.

Speaker: You just can't maneuver it and control it as good as we can.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Well, if afterwards, if you happen to think of them, I'd love to share them in the show notes, any of the books that you particularly enjoyed.

Speaker: For sure.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Awesome.

Speaker: Awesome.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: Well, in terms of the first 30 days, did your daughter have her heart surgery then before you came home or was that later?

Speaker: What sort of, what helped you get released from the NICU?

Speaker: So we, she was on a, she had an NG tube in her nose for feeding and all of those things we did daily for her.

Speaker: We had therapies that would come in, you know, different types of therapies, physical therapy, speech therapy, which was also feeding as well.

Speaker: Feeding and speech therapies all kind of go together.

Speaker: And the lactation consultant helped me, but it was mainly her feeding that got us to go home.

Speaker: So it was a really, really hard decision to make, but they convinced us.

Speaker: I don't want to say convince, really educated us on the importance of having a surgically placed G-tube.

Speaker: So gastrointestinal tube that where the milk will not have to go through her nose and cause oral aversions because that's the last thing I wanted.

Speaker: I still wanted to breastfeed and I was going to breastfeed.

Speaker: At least I thought I was.

Speaker: Well, I did.

Speaker: I just keep doubting myself sometimes.

Speaker: I'm like, did I really breastfeed?

Speaker: Yeah, I did.

Speaker: So she had this G-tube placed in her stomach.

Speaker: So the milk would just go straight to her stomach.

Speaker: And that's what got us home.

Speaker: Like within four days after she got that place, we were home.

Speaker: Nice.

Speaker: Oh, amazing.

Speaker: 30 days that we were in the NICU.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: That's such a, that's so a lot.

Speaker: They sent us home with like a pump and not breast pump, but a feeding pump for her, which I was thankful for because I could, I didn't have to sit here and hold the syringe of milk, you know, going to her stomach.

Speaker: I could

Speaker: put it through the pump.

Speaker: And while that's pumping her, I'm pumping more.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Multitask.

Speaker: That's what I like.

Speaker: Yeah, no, that's so good.

Speaker: Cause it is so hard.

Speaker: Like try to feed your baby and pump at the same time.

Speaker: I've definitely like spilt a lot of milk doing that.

Speaker: So yeah.

Speaker: Oh my gosh.

Speaker: I can't even want to go there.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Oh goodness.

Speaker: So when you're using the feeding tube, you mentioned like thickened breast milk.

Speaker: Um, what was that?

Speaker: What is, what does that mean?

Speaker: So we didn't have to thicken it through the tube.

Speaker: What I did was I had to thicken it when she was eating, when she was trying to drink it.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: The bottle.

Speaker: Gotcha.

Speaker: So that it wouldn't come out so fast and choke her.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So I thickened it for quite a while with, it's called gel mix is what it is.

Speaker: It's an organic breast milk thickener.

Speaker: Interesting.

Speaker: And it's, I actually was able to get it covered by the county because it was so expensive and like watching.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: watching the prices go up on it because of how the inflation prices were happening.

Speaker: You know?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: It's insane.

Speaker: It was like, it started out at like $20 and it ended up being like $30 in the end after a period of using it.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And you go through that stuff so fast.

Speaker: And I feel like this was also around the time when like formula started to just also like skyrocket in price.

Speaker: And so anything related to baby feeding got really expensive.

Speaker: It wasn't available, the formula.

Speaker: So I tried quitting.

Speaker: I called the lactation consultant and I was like,

Speaker: I can't do this anymore.

Speaker: I just don't, I just, this is too hard.

Speaker: I can't, it's quadruple feeding.

Speaker: Do you even know what this is like?

Speaker: It's just tearing me up.

Speaker: So I had a lot of like rage almost that postpartum rage you've heard about against my pump.

Speaker: Like it was horrible.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: She was, she convinced me.

Speaker: She was like, you can't, Danielle, like the formula is at such a shortage right now.

Speaker: It is absolutely ridiculous.

Speaker: And I know you want the best for her.

Speaker: And so my lactation consultant at the hospital was telling me, you need to just keep going.

Speaker: You need to keep going.

Speaker: And I understand if you don't want to, and that's okay.

Speaker: And we'll find something, but if you can just take it day by day, take it day by day.

Speaker: And if you, if you need to just call me and,

Speaker: you know, I'm here for you.

Speaker: Call me and let's talk about it.

Speaker: Let's chat about it.

Speaker: And let me pump you up.

Speaker: Like you got this, you're doing great.

Speaker: And I was like, okay, you're right.

Speaker: I got this.

Speaker: Like I just needed somebody to tell me like, it's going to be okay.

Speaker: You're doing the best you can.

Speaker: You know, I didn't have any visitors, you know, come or keep me company.

Speaker: I had me, my husband and my daughter and occasionally our parents, but yeah,

Speaker: I needed somebody to just be like, you can do this.

Speaker: You got this.

Speaker: And so I was so thankful for that.

Speaker: That's awesome.

Speaker: Yay.

Speaker: Yay for lactation consultants who like, they're such good cheerleaders.

Speaker: And it's like, because also so much of the attention is on the baby at this point.

Speaker: And so to have someone like your lactation consultant just be there rooting you on and being like, I totally understand how painful and like miserable this is right now.

Speaker: Like I get you is...

Speaker: Yeah, it really helped me a lot, too.

Speaker: I was like, oh, you see me.

Speaker: Oh, OK.

Speaker: Whoa.

Speaker: You know what this rage is.

Speaker: Yes, exactly.

Speaker: Never against my daughter.

Speaker: It was just that thing.

Speaker: Yes, man, the pumps for sure.

Speaker: I did learn and I wanted to say this.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: When we finally started getting out of the house, one of those manual pumps.

Speaker: Oh, wow.

Speaker: I was, you know, scrolling TikTok one day and watching these.

Speaker: I learned so much on TikTok when I was pumping.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: That's what I did.

Speaker: I know you had a question on there.

Speaker: Like, what did you do during pumping?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Or breastfeeding?

Speaker: Yeah, I watched a lot of educational Tic Tacs, or I read books, or those are the things that I did on Down syndrome, on tongue ties or lip ties, because I thought she had a lip tie, had it checked.

Speaker: They said she didn't, but they also said...

Speaker: There's nothing we can do because she has down syndrome.

Speaker: So it was just, yeah, there's not a lot of research out there.

Speaker: Let me just tell you that.

Speaker: So I'm doing as much research as I possibly can while I'm pumping, which I think filled, it just filled me, you know, like in a, in a good way.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: It's so nice to know you're not alone and other people are there to want to support and help you and teach you the tricks.

Speaker: Facebook groups.

Speaker: Holy cow.

Speaker: There's so many people just message me day and night.

Speaker: How are you doing?

Speaker: How is she doing?

Speaker: How is the feeding?

Speaker: And they've been there.

Speaker: They did this.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I'm just, I was so blessed to have that community.

Speaker: And it's almost like I'm in this whole nother community too.

Speaker: Like this whole family I have of these other families that have children with Down syndrome.

Speaker: We're like this big family now across the United States.

Speaker: It's really cool.

Speaker: That's awesome.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: And so important.

Speaker: That's amazing.

Speaker: Manual pump.

Speaker: Let me just get back to that.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: No, please.

Speaker: I'm, I'm,

Speaker: Somebody gave me one of those Medela because I just was using Medela.

Speaker: I want to stick with Medela the whole time.

Speaker: That's what I had, you know, all of that.

Speaker: If you are pumping manually, pump, pump, pump, and you hold it, it comes out in a stream.

Speaker: Oh, wow.

Speaker: And it like...

Speaker: it just fills so much faster.

Speaker: And I'm like, holy cow, this is an amazing trick.

Speaker: Like it's a, it's a hack.

Speaker: Like when you're trying to get somewhere or, you know, I'm outside my, with the baby, she's laying in the sun, we're hanging out and I don't want the pump out there.

Speaker: You know, I'm going to take the pump with me and,

Speaker: And so obviously I'm massaging, but I'm also just holding it.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Pumping.

Speaker: I pump to get the letdown.

Speaker: Once I got the letdown, I hold it and it just fills it up.

Speaker: I'm like, holy cow, this is the best hack ever.

Speaker: I felt free in a way because I was using the pump for so long.

Speaker: Yes, I still did.

Speaker: I still use the pump mostly.

Speaker: But if I wanted to go outside and do something or if I wanted to go somewhere, I could just take that manual pump with me.

Speaker: It was so much easier.

Speaker: That's amazing.

Speaker: And so much less bulky because like bringing the big Medela that you've got to like find some place to plug in and...

Speaker: Wow, that is a very good trick.

Speaker: Thank you for sharing.

Speaker: And I love like even just knowing like if you just hold it down, it just keeps flowing like that squeezes on.

Speaker: Or you massage while you're holding it too.

Speaker: It's like, holy cow, more comes out.

Speaker: And maybe it's just the over producer in me or something.

Speaker: But I was obviously other people have done it because I learned it on TikTok.

Speaker: So yeah, hey, that's awesome.

Speaker: Oh, I love it.

Speaker: Another accessory I really, really enjoyed, not enjoyed, but worked for me is the Pumpin Pals, Pumpin, Pumpin Pals, silicone flanges.

Speaker: I have elastic nipples.

Speaker: I didn't know what that was, but they just, they grow to the size of no matter what your flange you're using.

Speaker: It's insane.

Speaker: So,

Speaker: The silicone flange was so much more comfortable and it didn't like, everything didn't rub all the time.

Speaker: And if it did, I just put a little coconut oil on it and it was so smooth.

Speaker: I was able to get a lot more easier output with that.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: That's so important.

Speaker: Cause like when they do extend all the way down, then you can really like, you can cut yourself and that's really painful.

Speaker: I did try using the willow pump.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And it does not work with the last thing.

Speaker: I can tell you that term is just so weird here, but it's, it's a, I mean, it's not very common, but I don't know.

Speaker: Heard of that, but I know, I know quite a few people who also have that issue, but yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: It makes perfect sense once you say it, but it is a funny term.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: From the lactation consultant.

Speaker: So nice.

Speaker: Nice.

Speaker: So at three months, when your daughter started to lose her suction ability, did that mean you like that was the end of breastfeeding or what at that point did you do?

Speaker: No, that was not the end.

Speaker: I tried every day.

Speaker: Still, every day.

Speaker: Maybe I might have missed like a feed sometimes just because I was so exhausted.

Speaker: And I was like, you know what?

Speaker: We're just going to go straight to the tube here, honey.

Speaker: Like, I'm so tired.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Majority of the time, I would say 90% of the time, we always did the quadruple feeding.

Speaker: We always did nursing, bottle, tube, and I pumped.

Speaker: And I don't even know if quadruple feeding is a word, a term, but it is for me.

Speaker: It was.

Speaker: You invented it.

Speaker: I think it's great.

Speaker: So we still tried.

Speaker: We still just kept trying.

Speaker: You know, I would rub her face and rub, you know, make her come and get it.

Speaker: Both nipple and bottle.

Speaker: And I just tried everything.

Speaker: I tried everything for six months.

Speaker: I tried breastfeeding for six months.

Speaker: It was when she got her first tooth.

Speaker: No, not her first tooth.

Speaker: She didn't get her first tooth then.

Speaker: She started biting.

Speaker: She just started gumming.

Speaker: Yes, gumming.

Speaker: And I was like, oh no.

Speaker: Oh no, no.

Speaker: I'm not going to do.

Speaker: You're like, I'm already extending in like four areas here.

Speaker: We don't need to add that.

Speaker: She did it one day and I was like,

Speaker: Holy cow.

Speaker: Oh no, that hurts.

Speaker: She did it again.

Speaker: And I was like, I can't.

Speaker: Nope.

Speaker: I'm not doing this anymore.

Speaker: I'm just saying with nursing, like that is the end for me.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: It, it just, I was already, you know, I don't, there's a difference between breastfeeding and pumping all of the time on your nipples.

Speaker: Like the amount of sensitivity, I feel like they say, from what I've heard, breastfeeding like can, um,

Speaker: like toughens your nipples, I guess.

Speaker: Interesting.

Speaker: Pumping doesn't, like, I don't feel like pumping just softens them even more because they're always, I don't know, there's always wet, like in this, you know, I don't know.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: They're not toughened up at all.

Speaker: They're kind of pruned up, you know, like it's a weird way to look at it, but

Speaker: But I guess hopefully I'll find out what real nursing feels like.

Speaker: But it was just the gumming thing was I was done.

Speaker: But she had her surgery right before she turned five months old.

Speaker: Her heart surgery?

Speaker: We're trying.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: She had open heart surgery to heal those two holes.

Speaker: That was the most...

Speaker: traumatic time of my life.

Speaker: I would say even more than the NICU stay and her taking away from me for 24 hours.

Speaker: That was 10 hours of her in surgery was the worst.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Just sit there and wait.

Speaker: That's so hard.

Speaker: Were you back at the Madison hospital and did you get to stay at the Ronald McDonald?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Okay, cool.

Speaker: It was 10 days.

Speaker: 10 days.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: And we already knew the hospital after being there for 30 days.

Speaker: We knew how to order food.

Speaker: We knew where to go.

Speaker: You guys were the experts.

Speaker: The best coffee.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Which I was so glad to drink a little bit more coffee than I was when I was pregnant because I was very...

Speaker: Potious about, you know, how much I was drinking and all that stuff, too, because.

Speaker: Sure.

Speaker: And everything I took in when I was pregnant.

Speaker: And that was one thing that kind of made me mad, too.

Speaker: Like when I first had her, I was like, you know, I did everything I could to prevent any kind of, you know.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Defects or anything like that.

Speaker: But some things just.

Speaker: God has his own way and you just have to roll with it.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And something like that is just not related to anything you did.

Speaker: exactly and but man it was it was a while before I was like okay I understand now like and now I really understand why I had her like I have all of this experience and in special education and I have a baby that I can completely be there for and know you know like and not be a search and

Speaker: Yeah, I really can ask people and it was really... And I feel like she's so lucky to have you and then also like you all have 50 acres and so what a gift that she can just like explore on such a vast area and have the wilderness right there at her fingertips.

Speaker: I'm so blessed.

Speaker: So after her surgery, I imagine at that point you were hoping that breastfeeding would be better, but it sounds like it was still a challenge or nursing, I should say.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: Nursing.

Speaker: I think I tried a handful of times after her surgery because the lactation consultant was there again in person with me.

Speaker: And I was like, I don't want to do this.

Speaker: She bit me and I'm just a bit hurt.

Speaker: And...

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: She's there.

Speaker: Let me, let me see, you know, let me help you.

Speaker: And it's, it was really nice to be able to see her again and her, you know, help me a little bit.

Speaker: She was, Oh yeah.

Speaker: You know, that is hard.

Speaker: And she kind of like validated, you know, my feelings and, and understood where I was coming from and, but, and pumped me up while I was pumping.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: It was awesome.

Speaker: But so no, we, she never ended up nursing at all.

Speaker: At all.

Speaker: Like, like I said, she'd only get a little bit at a time if she did before, but yeah, we did keep trying the bottles.

Speaker: But mostly like that was where the, the liquids were thickened for her.

Speaker: And then once she had her swallow study, then she,

Speaker: You know, just to make sure it was going down to her stomach and not into her lungs.

Speaker: That's when they were like, oh, you don't have to thicken it anymore.

Speaker: So I think it was not until like, I want to say nine, 10 months before we could stop thickening it.

Speaker: She ended up going straight to a straw cup at eight months old.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: One day, like right around Easter, we were at a friend's house and I brought our thickened milk with and, well, the milk warmed it up, thickened it, put it in the straw cup because it comes out slower.

Speaker: And she just got it that day at a friend's house.

Speaker: I love it.

Speaker: Really awesome.

Speaker: I was so, I was crying at my friend's house.

Speaker: And I was like, oh my gosh, she's doing it, you guys.

Speaker: And there's more people there that I don't even know.

Speaker: So I'm like, nobody understands.

Speaker: Nobody knows what this, nobody knows how big this is right now.

Speaker: She literally drank the entire cup that day.

Speaker: And then we never looked back.

Speaker: We never.

Speaker: That's amazing.

Speaker: Never went to a bottle.

Speaker: We just kept, it was a Rubbermaid.

Speaker: straw cup, like a hard one where you squeeze it and it comes out.

Speaker: Oh, interesting.

Speaker: Like if you've heard of the honey bear cups, those help to teach kids that have, you know, or I guess anybody could use them.

Speaker: Any kids can use them to teach that straw.

Speaker: Like you, so just a suction of it, you squeeze it and then the liquid comes out.

Speaker: So

Speaker: The honey bear wasn't good for us.

Speaker: Like I didn't like it.

Speaker: So the Rubbermaid was suggested by another speech therapist that we were using down the road.

Speaker: She got it.

Speaker: So cool.

Speaker: That Rubbermaid cup was like $8 for a set of four when we bought another $20 for one.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: Somebody heard.

Speaker: Like, Oh, we can mark that up.

Speaker: Oh man.

Speaker: Maybe not.

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: That was insane.

Speaker: Cause I, every time I try to share it to other moms who are now, you know, having those issues with their babies and I'm helping them paying it forward.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And it's $20 for one cup.

Speaker: And I'm like, I got four of them.

Speaker: Let me just send you one.

Speaker: Oh, yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: You know, she's she's doing so good now.

Speaker: She's we did start adaptive baby led weaning.

Speaker: So that is by Jill Rabin.

Speaker: She's a speech and feeding therapist as well.

Speaker: All online.

Speaker: She had these like webinars and all of that.

Speaker: So we started at right after she had her heart surgery, the doctors and cardiologists were like,

Speaker: Oh yeah, she's ready.

Speaker: Let's start some food.

Speaker: Like five months old.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: That's awesome.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And so we started with like, um, I started with like a puree just, I wanted, I just put it on the plate or put it on her tray and let her go at it.

Speaker: I didn't even push it.

Speaker: I didn't put it on a spoon and put it in her mouth.

Speaker: That's the adaptive baby led weaning.

Speaker: Um, because you want to start the interest of food.

Speaker: So, I mean, just like regular baby led weeding too, but you don't start with like a piece of turkey or, you know, or a lot of the self feeders.

Speaker: I don't know if you've seen those, like the mesh feeders or plastic, like you could put a banana in there and it'll kind of mash it.

Speaker: And now that was another, one of the first things that we used for her too.

Speaker: So it's just another way of adaptive baby led weeding instead of just giving her a banana and

Speaker: you start with like a self feeder so that, you know, she's a little bit more safe in that end.

Speaker: So yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Now everything works a little bit different than, you know, the typical child.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: That's cool.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Before she was even drinking.

Speaker: I know.

Speaker: Because I want to do baby led weaning so bad, too.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And I was able to do that just in a little bit roundabout way.

Speaker: That was.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And she's so advanced.

Speaker: Like most kids aren't even ready until six months.

Speaker: So that's awesome.

Speaker: And she loved it.

Speaker: She was really interested in the food.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: She's always been interested in food.

Speaker: If she doesn't eat, I know she's coming down with something, you know?

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Clear indicator.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: That's awesome.

Speaker: That's awesome.

Speaker: Oh, yay.

Speaker: And so then it's so nice when they start eating because then of course they don't need as much breast milk because they're like just starting to get some of the food.

Speaker: But how long did you continue to pump

Speaker: after the surgery and such?

Speaker: Well, I almost quit.

Speaker: I want to say it was like three or four times.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: From the beginning.

Speaker: And obviously you ran into issues of the formula.

Speaker: And then I think there was like two times where I was like, don't the formula still shortage, you know?

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: And then I went to 11 months, ended up make sure she had at least a year's worth of milk to drink.

Speaker: I had to like go in my freezer and calculate it all and figure it all out, divide it by how many days, how many, how many months.

Speaker: And she ended up drinking my frozen breast milk until she was 16 months old.

Speaker: Amazing.

Speaker: So it was.

Speaker: You had such a stash.

Speaker: That's awesome.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Like I said, and I did end up giving some away before I quit pumping just because friend had twins and she was an underproducer.

Speaker: Plus, so I was like, girl, just take some of this.

Speaker: Let me help you.

Speaker: But I would have been able to probably feed her until 18 months, but that's okay.

Speaker: I mean, we did the best we could and I was able to help somebody and when she needed it.

Speaker: So yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, that's amazing.

Speaker: And 16 months is incredible.

Speaker: I mean, anything past 12 months is like, whoa.

Speaker: I was so happy.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I got to put my pump away.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Did you celebrate?

Speaker: I did.

Speaker: I slowly weaned off.

Speaker: And I don't remember how I celebrated.

Speaker: I do remember how I celebrated when she started drinking.

Speaker: Like, I was hanging out with my mom and we just had a party.

Speaker: Like, at her, just me and my mom and ready.

Speaker: My daughter's name is Remy.

Speaker: And so we just slept at my mom's house and, you know, we had, we had a couple of drinks that night.

Speaker: My mom and I did.

Speaker: Hey, you deserve it.

Speaker: That's a big one.

Speaker: I pumped it that night because I had liquor.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker: All good.

Speaker: Oh, I love that.

Speaker: Did you know that 90% of mothers felt lonely after having children and 54% felt friendless after giving birth?

Speaker: This according to a recent UK survey of more than 2000 mothers.

Speaker: I can definitely relate.

Speaker: I had a hard time after my daughter was born.

Speaker: which is why I've started my free private Facebook group for moms plus called more milk, please strong supportive mamas.

Speaker: Come join us at facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash more milk, please, and find the connection and belonging you desire.

Speaker: Look forward to seeing you there.

Speaker: So you mentioned while you were pumping, you would like watch, you know, TikToks, totally get, and like also do all of the reading.

Speaker: I'm curious, like through this whole experience, were there any unexpected joys or?

Speaker: You know, the biggest thing I think is just what was given to us, like my daughter.

Speaker: I mean, everybody always...

Speaker: you know, says how much their child changes them and how much they needed them.

Speaker: And holy cow, I needed this child.

Speaker: I had some very bad anxiety my whole life.

Speaker: And I was on medication like years before, which so I completely respect people who are, you know, trying to make themselves better.

Speaker: But this whole experience humbled me in such a way I can't even explain.

Speaker: Like, I needed this girl.

Speaker: I needed this little baby.

Speaker: Her song is literally Joy of My Life.

Speaker: It is called by Chris Staple.

Speaker: I don't know if you've heard it, but you need to if you haven't.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: And she, she brings the joy.

Speaker: She is the joy.

Speaker: Like everything about her is the joy.

Speaker: Like there's nothing else.

Speaker: I love that.

Speaker: Cause I'm 30 weeks pregnant and I'm like, how am I going to love this other child the way that I love this, you know, my Remy Jean and, and everybody is like, Oh, that everybody goes through that feeling.

Speaker: And so that's a little too, but it's, yeah.

Speaker: It's that joy.

Speaker: There was also moments.

Speaker: I want to kind of show you this little book.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: You can't see it if they're listening, but I have this little book.

Speaker: So I posted everything on Facebook.

Speaker: So Facebook was my, um, my journal.

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: I, they were like, you need to journal it.

Speaker: Here's a journal.

Speaker: The hospital gave me a journal to, you know, write down my thoughts and stuff.

Speaker: I did it on Facebook and just went overboard and shared our every day in the NICU.

Speaker: And it's all in this book.

Speaker: Oh, amazing.

Speaker: I was able to order this book while I was pumping and like,

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: Oh, I love your photos.

Speaker: Pumpkin.

Speaker: She's just in there.

Speaker: All of these.

Speaker: And it includes your writing too, which is awesome.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Every single thing that I wrote.

Speaker: You know, this is a picture of us in the NICU.

Speaker: Oh my gosh.

Speaker: So adorable.

Speaker: Everything, everything I posted.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I need this book.

Speaker: I ordered it for myself.

Speaker: That is like something we can cherish and hold on to and

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: The hardest time, like I was saying, hardest time of our lives.

Speaker: The whole thing was a learning curve with, with the diagnosis, the pumping, the, the breastfeeding in general, you know?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: You had mentioned, you know, of course it was a total shock for both you and your husband after she was born.

Speaker: Did you guys go through any postpartum depression or how did you handle moving through that?

Speaker: He was with me.

Speaker: Like he was there every single day.

Speaker: He worked a little bit that fourth week we were in the NICU, but I don't know if it was depression.

Speaker: I mean, it was a type of depression, obviously, because I had that postpartum rage.

Speaker: Sure.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Well, pumps will do that.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: But there was so much crying and so much grief and so much confusion.

Speaker: I don't know if it was depression.

Speaker: I don't know if it was anxiety or, you know, I'm sure it was anxiety because, I mean, I've always had anxiety.

Speaker: But I also don't always feel like anxiety is a bad thing.

Speaker: Like, I just kind of I heard this on a podcast the other day.

Speaker: I'm addicted to podcasts.

Speaker: Me too.

Speaker: I hear you.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Since we're here.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: You know, it made so much sense to me.

Speaker: Anxiety kind of, it reminds you that you're still alive, that you feel and that there's so much to life that can open your eyes when you feel, you know, and that's

Speaker: So I don't, it wasn't what if I did have postpartum depression or postpartum anxiety, I got through it.

Speaker: I got through it.

Speaker: Now, after I'm not saying I didn't get through it without therapy, I wouldn't get therapy.

Speaker: Oh, good.

Speaker: For heart surgery, I got into therapy and it was, I wasn't going to go anywhere.

Speaker: I rule.

Speaker: And so it was all virtual, but it was EMDR therapy.

Speaker: I rapid movement therapy.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: You'll have to look it up.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Amazing.

Speaker: I had to live through all of those moments that I had recently.

Speaker: And then even old stuff that got brought up.

Speaker: But my husband was so supportive through the whole thing.

Speaker: Nice.

Speaker: He did have to still work out of state sometimes, but he wasn't.

Speaker: to work at home with his company they allowed him to work at home to be with me and her and I was so thankful for that because you know with not living so far out and people I didn't want visitors to come visit us she was you know

Speaker: You want to keep her safe.

Speaker: I feel you, you know, it's like I protected her for nine months inside of me and now we are not like exposing child to anything.

Speaker: That's exactly what it was.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So therapy is what kind of kept me, kept me going and kept me sane.

Speaker: And, but yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Awesome.

Speaker: You mentioned that now you watch two other little kids at your home.

Speaker: So when did you kind of go, quote unquote, back to work or restart that?

Speaker: So I started watching the one kid because the other girl wasn't born yet, actually.

Speaker: It's a family that lives around the corner from us.

Speaker: And I started watching him.

Speaker: It was after her heart surgery.

Speaker: It was spring by that time.

Speaker: It was January when she had her heart surgery.

Speaker: So I think it was like March when I started taking him back in.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: My little sister was born in May.

Speaker: And so I got to start taking her.

Speaker: I still had him while she was having some bonding time with her new baby.

Speaker: So that was kind of...

Speaker: And I'm telling you, it's been such a blessing to have these little kids here with my little girl.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: That's so cool.

Speaker: Just the exposure of social and even sicknesses and stuff.

Speaker: Like, bring it in.

Speaker: Like, you know, not everything, obviously.

Speaker: If you're really sick, don't come, please.

Speaker: But, like...

Speaker: It's been so good for her and we have to stay home, not have to stay home, I guess I have options, but our birth to three program in our state comes here for her and they were, they were coming here for her feeding therapy too.

Speaker: Oh, amazing.

Speaker: For a while.

Speaker: And she would actually help me a little bit with breastfeeding when we were first starting with that program.

Speaker: And did the, did the hospital let you know about those options or did you do the research and figure it out?

Speaker: Yes, the hospital did.

Speaker: They gave us so much resources.

Speaker: I was very impressed.

Speaker: I've heard a lot of people that have children with Down syndrome go through and have these doctors that aren't as positive.

Speaker: We didn't have that.

Speaker: all we we had all the doctors were congratulating us all the time and handing out resources and books upon books and it was I was so blessed to be able to have that experience but I can't imagine any other any other way and the parents that go through you know doctors that aren't as supportive yeah

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I want to circle back really quick to weaning.

Speaker: So you started to transition, I'm assuming, I don't know, did to cow's milk to goat's milk.

Speaker: And then how did you do that with your milk and and animal milk?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So I was, well, weeding off of the pump, first of all.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: That was a challenge.

Speaker: And, you know, I've, I had, you know, my mom or his mom or somebody, you know, in the older generation would be like, oh, just, just stop pumping.

Speaker: It's fine.

Speaker: I'm like, you can't just stop pumping.

Speaker: Like, I don't want to risk my hormones going crazy and having some more postpartum rage or something, you know,

Speaker: or mastitis or something along those lines.

Speaker: Like it can be very dangerous to your health to just stop.

Speaker: Like, no, I did end up weaning off of the pump with cabbage leaves, the big cabbage leaves.

Speaker: They fit right in your bra.

Speaker: And I did end up taking like two allergy pills.

Speaker: I think like just before bed, like I think it was two or three times maybe.

Speaker: And I,

Speaker: And that was like on the last, last day when I wasn't pumping anymore.

Speaker: And it dried right up.

Speaker: I was like, oh, thank goodness.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: So then the transition to her after 16 months of drinking my milk, I started transitioning to her, I think it was 15 months, onto just regular cow's milk.

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Cow's milk is what I was going to start with whole milk.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And she ended up having just getting really bad constipation.

Speaker: And so the doctors were like, yo, just give her Miralax.

Speaker: And I'm like, I'm sorry, we can't give her Miralax, but what else can we give her?

Speaker: That's like natural.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Let's not pump her with other things.

Speaker: It's crazy because before I had her, I was like such a people pleaser.

Speaker: And I was like...

Speaker: Well, tell me why, you know, instead of just being like, no, now it's totally different.

Speaker: Nice.

Speaker: Like, nope, I'm not giving her that.

Speaker: That's right.

Speaker: Because I looked into it and I'm not doing it.

Speaker: I mean, it's okay if somebody else wants to do it for their child.

Speaker: No, no mom shaming here ever.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: But I'm not doing it.

Speaker: I love that you found your voice.

Speaker: Another cool thing about just becoming a mom and having a child.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: The bare instinct they talk about is so real.

Speaker: So we ended up transitioning to a two milk.

Speaker: So it's still called whole milk, cow's milk.

Speaker: And, but it doesn't, it's like made basically just instead of the protein with a one and a two together in regular whole milk, it's just a two.

Speaker: So like milk or Jersey cows, though, they're the ones that produce that a two hormone.

Speaker: And so that's what we use now to this day.

Speaker: Amazing.

Speaker: Amazing.

Speaker: Cool.

Speaker: And did she kind of take to it right away or did you have to kind of like mix milks for a little while?

Speaker: I mixed milk for a little while and then I would give her breast milk in the morning or...

Speaker: whole milk at dinner.

Speaker: And she drank it.

Speaker: She never, never regressed back to where we were with the tube feeding.

Speaker: She was so proud of herself drinking out of that straw.

Speaker: That's so awesome.

Speaker: That's so awesome.

Speaker: And speaking of that, when did she get the GI tube out?

Speaker: Was it at her surgery or before?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: She ended up getting that out.

Speaker: It was about a year and a half old.

Speaker: It was after our wedding, which was last October.

Speaker: She's two now.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: We just took it out one day and it closes up.

Speaker: Amazing.

Speaker: You don't have to go in or have surgery.

Speaker: She does have a little scar from it.

Speaker: Some scar tissue that

Speaker: protrudes out almost like another belly button.

Speaker: And so we just say, look, you have two belly buttons.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So cute.

Speaker: Who doesn't want more belly buttons are fun.

Speaker: Nice.

Speaker: Always got to stay positive and, you know, with everything.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Awesome.

Speaker: Well, I want to switch gears a little bit and have you share about scrunchie kids.

Speaker: So, yeah, I just changed my handle probably a little over a month ago.

Speaker: It was just Danielle.

Speaker: Forever.

Speaker: But you can find me on Facebook as Danielle Kowleski.

Speaker: And I share all kinds of stuff on Danielle Scrunchy Kids and Facebook because they're both like connected.

Speaker: The Instagram and Facebook are connected.

Speaker: So the scrunchie kids part, scrunchie.

Speaker: And have you ever heard the term scrunchie?

Speaker: No.

Speaker: I mean, I've heard it as like a hair scrunchie, but that's it.

Speaker: So crunchy.

Speaker: Have you heard of crunchy?

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Like a crunchy mom.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Like a crunchy, earthy mom.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So holistic, wanting to be more like, yeah, with the earth and...

Speaker: Not really with Western medicine whatsoever, for the most part, tries to avoid it as much as possible.

Speaker: Scrunchy, on the other hand, is okay.

Speaker: So the word silky, let's go there.

Speaker: So crunchy and silky are the opposite.

Speaker: So a silky mom will, you know, give their mom or give their kid any kind of food there is there.

Speaker: It doesn't matter, you know, red dyes and yeah.

Speaker: You know, all sorts of sodium and all the things.

Speaker: So there's, and I'm not trying to get into the vaccine controversy because that's definitely something that, you know, some people agree with and some people don't.

Speaker: That's right.

Speaker: A scrunchie mom will not get vaccines and a silky mom will.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: A scrunchie mom is just in between.

Speaker: I love it.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Like the holistic and all of that stuff, but Western medicine, you need it when you need it.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: No, maybe not all of, you know, all of the things that they, they tell you to do, or, you know, tell you to give your child, but you know, there's, there's that other realm over on the crunchy side where you're like, okay, well, let's talk to this crunchy mom and see what she's got for holistic stuff.

Speaker: Will it work?

Speaker: No, maybe not.

Speaker: Let's go back to Western medicine, you know, kind of that route.

Speaker: You know, and so that's where we stand.

Speaker: Because I have a child with Down syndrome, I'm not going to lie.

Speaker: We have to have some of that Western medicine, we have to have the cardiology, echocardiogram, heart scans.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: You know, and then there's just some things that you just need to let go.

Speaker: You don't need to be so uptight about what you're giving your child 100% of the time.

Speaker: It's so stressful.

Speaker: Like, yeah, that's like anxiety, asking for anxiety, you know, but I also want to be cautious about what I am putting into her body because of, you know, everything she has going on.

Speaker: And because it's just the way that I prefer to live.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So I share a lot of healthy tips on my Instagram and I have them connected, like I said, so they kind of just go on my Facebook as well.

Speaker: And just like natural remedies at home that you can do or, you

Speaker: You know, just kind of trying to be that mom that people can kind of relate to, you know, like, oh, I like this.

Speaker: This is cool.

Speaker: I'm going to try this.

Speaker: If it doesn't work for them, well, then that's, you know, at least they were able to get some kind of something out of it.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: An option.

Speaker: Another option to think about.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: That's so cool.

Speaker: I love that you're doing that.

Speaker: And I love the combination.

Speaker: No mom shaming in this department ever.

Speaker: We never do that.

Speaker: So.

Speaker: I love that.

Speaker: Awesome.

Speaker: Well, thank you for sharing and definitely look out on Instagram.

Speaker: In terms of next steps, I want to do some like rapid fire questions.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: So you mentioned, of course, that you were able to do alternative baby led weaning.

Speaker: So I'm curious what your daughter's first food or foods were.

Speaker: So I did mention this a little bit earlier.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Sweet potato puree.

Speaker: And I just let her go at it on the tray.

Speaker: I gave her a spoon to kind of like play around with it and put it in her mouth.

Speaker: And she just, I just let her, let her do whatever, whatever she wanted.

Speaker: And then we did the mesh banana.

Speaker: So like I put a banana in a mesh self feeder, which was messy to clean up.

Speaker: Not going to lie.

Speaker: Cause it sticks into that.

Speaker: It's not, it's not fun to clean, but it's so worth it.

Speaker: So she would match that and get her jaw work going.

Speaker: And then the other like big food was honey sriracha pork loin.

Speaker: Because, you know, she was still having, she didn't have any teeth yet.

Speaker: So she was pumping that pork loin.

Speaker: Oh my goodness.

Speaker: It was so cute.

Speaker: And actually Jill Rabin, who wrote the book Adaptive Baby Lead Weaning, about baby lead weaning, it's called Your Baby Can Self-Feed Too.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: It's most, it's not just around kids with Down syndrome, but it's just anybody, any kids that have issues with baby led weaning or need swallow studies done or, you know, any kind of stuff like that.

Speaker: That's a really good book to get.

Speaker: She shared a video of Remy with that pork loin on the way on it.

Speaker: I was like, this is awesome.

Speaker: That's fantastic.

Speaker: I thought what she really liked was watermelon because she could, she would just like, you know, it didn't fall part in pieces in her mouth quite yet, but.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Oh, that's awesome.

Speaker: I love that.

Speaker: She needed a little bit more work with jaw strength with some like feeding tools and stuff.

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Cool.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: So I know you're a multitasker, but are you a morning person or a night person or middle of the day?

Speaker: What's your, what's your preferences?

Speaker: I, it changes for me.

Speaker: It changes.

Speaker: I like go through phases of life where sometimes I am a morning person and I get up and take walks, but

Speaker: I haven't been a morning person really since I've had my child.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I'm like, I'm going to sleep as long as I can.

Speaker: And she's my alarm clock, you know, obviously until like the other kids get here for daycare, but.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I, I sleep as long as I can.

Speaker: I cherish that, that sleep in the morning.

Speaker: I don't know what it is, but getting out of that cozy bed is just not something I truly enjoy doing unless I have a baby snuggling with me.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Totally.

Speaker: Totally.

Speaker: I love it.

Speaker: I'm not really a night person either because I just, I don't know.

Speaker: I'm just not.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: You just like super active during the day, getting it all done.

Speaker: It's my time.

Speaker: I love it.

Speaker: I love it.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: Are you a coffee or tea or water person?

Speaker: What's your preference?

Speaker: Another thing I go through phases.

Speaker: So right now I'm 30 weeks pregnant, so I'm not really drinking coffee like I usually do.

Speaker: I did switch to like an organic decaf coffee on occasion.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And then if I have a headache, I'm going to pour myself that caffeine, caffeinated coffee.

Speaker: Or if I really need it, if I was up late, something, I need a little bit of caffeine, I'm going to have that cup.

Speaker: But I do prefer coffee, typically.

Speaker: You know, normal, impregnated Danielle will be.

Speaker: Nice.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Pumpkin spice, almond creamer all the way.

Speaker: If I'm around, I am so basic.

Speaker: Give it to me.

Speaker: I love it.

Speaker: I love it.

Speaker: Right now I'm drinking all kinds of different teas.

Speaker: So.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Cool.

Speaker: Cool.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: What is your go-to recharge activity with your little?

Speaker: Walking.

Speaker: Walking.

Speaker: She and I absolutely love.

Speaker: We have a quarter mile long driveway.

Speaker: Oh, wow.

Speaker: We walk.

Speaker: Nice.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Oh, that's awesome.

Speaker: At least a half a mile in sometimes more, but obviously it just snowed today.

Speaker: We've got quite a bit out there right now.

Speaker: Not like inches, but the ground is white.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: And what's one thing that your husband does that really helps you out?

Speaker: Oh, yeah.

Speaker: He is so good at like picking up after our child, like on the floor and cause I've got heartburn like crazy right now.

Speaker: So I'm like,

Speaker: I don't want to bend over and clean this up.

Speaker: He just does it.

Speaker: Oh, yeah.

Speaker: So he has fixed everything in this house.

Speaker: And he installed a dishwasher for me for my birthday.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: We live in a super old house.

Speaker: And he's like, what do you want for your birthday?

Speaker: And I'm like, would it be too much to ask if we just please?

Speaker: I mean, you don't even give me anything for Christmas.

Speaker: Like nothing.

Speaker: Don't even bother me.

Speaker: which we we're not huge on gifts anyways but like I needed a dishwasher I wasn't about to have another child able to put the pumping parts in the dishwasher this time yes yes exactly exactly that was like needed so I love it the biggest thing he's a hand man yay oh that's fantastic awesome well is there anything else you'd like to share before we wrap up

Speaker: I don't think so.

Speaker: I think it was just the breastfeeding and Down syndrome book that I wanted to just kind of shoot out there and go about.

Speaker: It was by Ella Gray Cohen.

Speaker: It's literally just called Breastfeeding and Down syndrome.

Speaker: And Julia's Way is another book.

Speaker: resource I wanted to throw out there to anybody have, has a child with Down syndrome as well.

Speaker: It's all about breastfeeding and the differences that, um, kids with Down syndrome have versus the typical child, you know, anatomy and everything along that route.

Speaker: So.

Speaker: But yeah, that's, I think that's about it.

Speaker: Cool.

Speaker: Well, those are great resources.

Speaker: Thank you so much for sharing them.

Speaker: And thank you for everything you've shared today.

Speaker: I've learned so much and I particularly love the manual pump tip.

Speaker: So thank you for being like, I want to share this one thing.

Speaker: I love it.

Speaker: I do want to also share actually a breastfeeding podcast that I listened to crazy.

Speaker: It's called badass breastfeeder.

Speaker: Have you heard of that one?

Speaker: I listen to them all the time.

Speaker: Oh, I love them.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So good.

Speaker: I'm not even breastfeeding, but like they actually did an episode on pumping hacks and sent them like 20 of them.

Speaker: And so you'll hear, you'll hear my name on there as well.

Speaker: Oh, cool.

Speaker: I love that podcast, but I sent them the hacks and stuff.

Speaker: So they read them search the pumping hacks on badass breastfeeder.

Speaker: So yes.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Nice.

Speaker: Nice.

Speaker: Awesome.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: I know you've mentioned it a couple of times, but just share again, what's the best way for people to find you or reach out to you?

Speaker: So on Facebook, I'm Danielle Kowleski and just follow me there.

Speaker: I've got pretty good following there.

Speaker: And then Danielle's underscore scrunchie underscore kids.

Speaker: So scrunchie with a Y. So I'm sure you'll probably type it in the notes.

Speaker: But yeah, that's the best way to get a hold of me.

Speaker: And I'm always trying to answer anybody's questions or be there for anybody, pumping down syndrome, any other kind of like delays or any questions, because we've done so much with therapies and with my daughter that I just want to be able to pay it forward.

Speaker: Well, thank you so much for being on.

Speaker: It's been a real pleasure.

Speaker: Thank you.

Speaker: It's been so exciting to share our story in a positive light, you know, two years later, because that first year would have been hard.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Thank you.

Speaker: Thank you so much for listening.

Speaker: If you've enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, leave a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts and share with a fellow mama plus.

Speaker: And if you're interested in coming on to share your own baby feeding story, head to mollyrider.com and click on share your story.

Speaker: Thanks.

Speaker: See you next week.

Speaker: Bye.