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00:00:01
176 Plays2 years ago
Stephen Magusiak of Press Progress and Shama Rangwala, assistant professor at York University, join host Duncan Kinney to discuss Jason Kenney's exit* from Alberta politics.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Progress Report' Podcast
00:00:12
Speaker
Friends and enemies, welcome to the Progress Report. I am your host, Duncan Kinney. We're recording today here in Amiskwetchiwa-Skygun, otherwise known as Edmonton, Alberta, here in Treaty 6 territory on the banks of the Kasisk-Sawana-Sippee, or the North Saskatchewan River.
00:00:26
Speaker
Joining us today are friends of the show and, um, awesome, really just fantastic. It's very excited to have them on Steven Magusiak, a reporter with press progress, who's based in Calgary and Shama Rangwala, an assistant professor at York university, as well as a fellow podcaster, uh, replay is there is Shama's podcast. You should really listen to it, but thank you for coming on the show. How are both of you doing?
What is 'Kexit' and Why Was It Unexpected?
00:00:47
Speaker
Hey, everyone. Um, thank you for having me on. I am doing.
00:00:52
Speaker
Well, as anyone in Alberta, I think we're all a little surprised by the recent days. Yeah, I'm happy to talk to you both about this and we can work out our thoughts and feelings. Yeah, we got to have a struggle session here because
00:01:12
Speaker
Kenny's Exit from Politics, or Kexit, as my colleague Jim has described it, and which will be the podcast episode title. I did not expect it.
00:01:23
Speaker
I did not, I thought he was going to hold on hooker by crook. And, uh, it's, it's really been a roller coaster of emotions. I think for the past few days, as the result came out and then Kenny's like, said he's going to quit. And then now he's like, uh, I only said I was going to quit.
Controversy and Impact of Kenney's Policies
00:01:39
Speaker
Not that I quit, uh, which is a hilarious, uh, George Costanza esque fucking twist on things. The George Costanza comparisons are just so apt here. I mean,
00:01:53
Speaker
and then trying to get really homework and narrative about just what is the definition of quitting? What is quitting? Yeah, let's get into it. Let's break open the Oxford English Dictionary of Quitting. Yes, Oxford defines quitting as... But let's get into our feelings here because I think
00:02:14
Speaker
Kenny just has been an awful person. He has inflicted an incredible amount of real and psychic damage on the people of Alberta. Shama, I want to know how did you feel when you first heard the news? What went through your head?
00:02:27
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you mentioned Kexit and the term of it. And if you'll just indulge me, it reminds me of one of my favorite writings from Karl Marx, the 18th Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte, where he talks about how in like moments of revolutionary crisis,
00:02:48
Speaker
the spirits of the past are conjured up and so borrowing names and slogans and costumes and it just seems like this is our meme culture that we have to find we have to find some way to make Kenny like this kind of unprecedented um that being booted through like an internal leadership review uh legible in some ways that we can like brexit
Was Kenney's Resignation Genuine?
00:03:13
Speaker
uh mags it wags it and now we have kegs it and it's like we
00:03:18
Speaker
just live in a kind of repetition culture when these all have their historical specificities. Some are more or less revolutionary than others. But yeah, how did I feel? I had some wine ready.
00:03:34
Speaker
But I actually thought that there would be shenanigans that would keep him in power because of the six-week delay, and then it was delayed, you know, 4 to 6 p.m., 6 to 6.15, 6.15 to 6.30, this, like, delay, delay. And I was like, oh, they're just, like, you know, figuring out some shenanigans. And now, as you say, there's this delay of him leaving as well.
00:04:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's something maybe afoot with that, that he... Kenny does not say what he means, he does not do anything transparently. So I suppose time will tell.
00:04:15
Speaker
Steven, you have stared into the dark soul of Jason Kenney as a reporter for Press Progress for the past four years. I mean, you more than anyone knows the inner workings of the people around him and how he functions and how he operates. Did you see this coming? Well, when I found out that it was happening, I was like everyone.
Kenney's Political Tactics and Legacy
00:04:43
Speaker
We were all surprised after announcing that he
00:04:47
Speaker
50% plus one and he got I suppose in a very literal way that with 51% For him to just give a brief speech and then resign. It was a fairly surprising moment, but I mean I Still kind of maintained. I'll believe it when I see it and we There's been moments of going back and forth
00:05:13
Speaker
play and then now we're starting to see evidence that there are a couple moves that he can do here still and seems to be indicating that he will whatever form it takes so yeah it just makes a lot of sense for him to find a way back in to George Costanza his way into somehow writing again and retaking his party because that's the kind of bellicose aggressive and George Costanza like move that he would do it's just
00:05:44
Speaker
Classic. I mean, I was wrong. I thought he was going to hooker by crook stay on, you know, I thought he was going to finagle and, you know, through whatever means available to him, get like a mid sixties kind of approval rating.
00:05:59
Speaker
Yeah, so I think because he had said that 50 plus one meant he was staying on makes me think that he has something quite cushy and lucrative lined up for after this, but he does get to stay on for a while and benefit from, you know, that office.
00:06:17
Speaker
I want to just mention, I was quite furious at all of the civil well wishes from other political leaders in this province. I don't know if you had some feelings about that, but it kind of put me in a bit of a rage.
00:06:36
Speaker
You do not have to give it to Kenny at all. But it really made me think about how fragile, you know, like liberal democracy, liberal capitalist democracy based on exclusions is, you know, even thinking about how like, I don't know, I've been thinking about like Irish unification and, you know, Scottish secession and things like that. And the Queen being so old.
00:07:06
Speaker
They just have a queen in order to have some sort of coherence of nation, right? And we have civility in Canada. And it's just so fake. And it also reminded me of Al Gore conceding and letting the Supreme Court
00:07:27
Speaker
decide the presidency in 2000, like there are all of these things we can connect this to as like symptomatic of the same problem and that is that it's so fragile to base your society on the capitalist colonial exclusions that you need to have faith in these like fake institutions that
Real Damage of Kenney's Policies
00:07:46
Speaker
you know
00:07:46
Speaker
It just put me in such a fury because they were going through this pantomime of like Rachel Notley was like, oh, he I want to thank him for his sacrifice. And I just like retweeted it with that Shrek, you know, Prince Lord Farquaad who's being like,
00:08:02
Speaker
you know, some of you will die, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Like the only sacrifice Kenny made was other people. And so if you can't break that like fake performative ritual to like hold this like exclusionary colonial capitalist society together, if you can't break it, because of this person who actually led to a lot of deaths, a lot of like drug overdose deaths, COVID deaths, deaths of despair, you know, 911 hasn't been working properly.
00:08:31
Speaker
Ambulance like there's so many ways that their policies are personally responsible for deaths And we know Kenny takes a lot of joy in other people's misery He has some sense of him being like elect or something right that he's like this, you know blessed by God and everyone else can go fuck themselves and so why can't
00:08:52
Speaker
You just say that and you can't say that because we're so like our like institutions are so fragile Our exclusionary society is so fragile that they have to do this whole song and dance of thanking him and it just put me in a rage Yeah, no fair enough. I they'd never do politics. Right? I mean, I think that the NDP There's no better premier to have when you're in opposition so
00:09:22
Speaker
way and yeah no just like the like bowing to civility just like the liberal civility like oh thank you for your sacrifice thank you for your service like like no you should be the enemy you should actually hate him
00:09:36
Speaker
I love the notion of civility as our queen, Shama. I love the notion of civility as our queen. This thin, tiny old line or lady holding this rickety fucking empire together, barely. It's very true. And yes, this podcast is not going to be praising Jason Kenney's sacrifice. We come to Barry Kenney, not praise him. But for real, Barry Kenney. Not in the Mark Anthony way. Fuck that guy.
00:10:06
Speaker
Jason Kenney was a bad person who did bad things. And we will say those things out loud because none of us can say it, right? The people who are farther to the right of him can say it. But these like weak ass interests, liberals can't say it. And that's right.
00:10:30
Speaker
So let's kind of look at Kenny's legacy, right?
Kenney's Divisive Legacy
00:10:34
Speaker
I think it's important to take stock of all the bad shit he did because he did briefly unite social conservatives and rural cultural conservatives with downtown business psychos and defeated the NDP quite conclusively in 2019, but it all fell apart.
00:10:54
Speaker
And, you know, while he was able to bring those people together and, and, and become premier, he has left a legacy that I think will last a long time. Like he barely brought them together, if, if at all, um, for the party, like before the paint had dried on the new party, like, so to speak. But unlike the NDP, Jason Kenny was willing to use
00:11:22
Speaker
But unlike the NDP, Jason Kenney was willing to use the levers of power to do ideology and to do politics. And I'll throw this question open. What do you think is going to be the most harmful part of Kenney's legacy?
00:11:37
Speaker
So I think they're the really explicit things, like I mentioned, all of the deaths and misery that he's created. But I think also giving this kind of respectable face to all of that has been quite destructive.
00:11:56
Speaker
I think that it's kind of gotten rid of any sort of left in this province because the NDP has moved to the right, even though they're called leftist communists, like one can only dream. And so, of course, there's all of this really destructive things he's done to public institutions.
00:12:15
Speaker
to gut them in order to pave the way for privatization. We know all of that, but I think that the sort of breaking people's brains by having such like transparent lies and just exposing a lot of the mainstream media is utterly incapable of calling out those lies. And I know, you
Did Kenney Undermine Democracy?
00:12:34
Speaker
know,
00:12:35
Speaker
It's really easy to look to Trump because it's the country closest to us, but this is something Narendra Modi has done. It's something other authoritarian right-wing leaders have done, which is just to lie so transparently that these fragile institutions don't know how to respond to that.
00:12:55
Speaker
And this is something that you know, it's not Alberta specific, but certainly Kenny did his best to yeah break people's brains really Yeah, what he broke their brains on specifically was a Belief in any sort of like basically he revealed what the current state of Canadian democracy is in a
00:13:23
Speaker
policies that led to thousands of deaths, but basically giving a political education to people who once supported him by then screwing them over, just completely disillusioning everyone in the political process. I think that you're right, it has happened around the world. I mean, people look like, yeah, to Trump or what's happening with shenanigans and other jurisdictions. He changed the way Albertans view politics by giving them, I would argue, a more realistic understanding of what
00:13:52
Speaker
conservative politics in particular, but just general, like Canadian politics are. A lot of shootings, a lot of background deals. It's a lot of really, really sketchy business. It's a lot of lobbyist ties and just
00:14:07
Speaker
Things like that, that kind of run counter to a more myopic view of what democracy is. Does that make sense? Yeah, and this is global. I mean, he went to the US right before this, and CPAC right now is in Hungary with Viktor Orban as the keynote. These are Kenny's people, and he kind of brought an acceleration of this to Alberta.
00:14:31
Speaker
And you know, it's it's happening everywhere. It's happening fast faster in Alberta because of Kenny and the UCP Yeah, he has mad links to Orban and Modi in India by way of Harper and associates of which he's always been an animal of Harper and associates He brought that
00:14:52
Speaker
He certainly, I mean, hasn't he been to Davos? It's very funny. My biggest- I don't think he's been to Davos because I think they would look really bad for him to go like popping off of Davos a week. It would have been years ago in Harper. Harper went to Davos. I think it may have been when he was Harper cabinet minister, but I mean, I don't want to get caught up in that bullshit. But I mean, I think my biggest memory and the biggest kind of legacy
00:15:19
Speaker
that Kenny will leave is best summer ever, right? Holding a jubilant celebratory press conference where we're going to open up the province just in time for Stampede. And then, you know, during a pandemic and then hundreds, if not thousands of people died.
00:15:37
Speaker
Thousands, if not tens of thousands of people will be disabled. You know, just so he could get a photo op and just so he could he could go to his base and say, hey, look, I'm listening to you. I know you hate masks and lockdowns. You know, we're going to I'm going to do what you want. And like it was so craven. And and like like anyone involved in fucking best summer ever, like should not be able to like exist in public. Like they shouldn't be able to walk down the street without being pelted with eggs and fucking harassed.
00:16:08
Speaker
Yeah, if we live in a good country like China or Japan we live with that So I Mean I've got a whole list of fucked up shit Kenny has done right Maybe I'll just throw some some things out there and you y'all can riff on them like the drug poisoning crisis Has gotten worse
00:16:32
Speaker
incredibly worse under Kenny.
Critique of Kenney's Pandemic Approach
00:16:34
Speaker
Record deaths every year. He's been in office. He's shown incredible cruelty to people who use drugs. Small business owners first, right? Small business owners take those things. Exactly. He's committed class war on behalf of the rich at an epic scale. His corporate tax cut, he has privatized huge swaths of our healthcare system. He's irrevocably fucked our healthcare system. $1.3 billion on a pipeline to nowhere that didn't get built. Yeah.
00:17:04
Speaker
Kenny knows who butters his bread and it's capital and he made no bones about it. You hope to see that kind of class awareness from the NDP, but obviously we're not. The impossibly incoherent messaging about COVID coming from his government because he was stuck between the far right freaks who denied that there was a pandemic, thought there should be no restrictions whatsoever.
00:17:31
Speaker
didn't want grandpa to die and then they tell us to stay home don't celebrate christmas this year and then aloha gate happened we saw that like something like nine or it was nine of them we're just fucking off to other countries like fucking holidays do you have a favorite scandal or memory you want to bring up right now shama oh god it's like hard it's hard to even
00:17:57
Speaker
It's so much but that's kind of part of the point of like breaking people's brains it's because it's one thing after another and so you can't actually like any of these would be such a huge scandal on their own any of the things that you mentioned.
00:18:12
Speaker
but taken all together, it's overwhelming. But that is the point, right? And it's like, don't look over there, look over here.
Accountability and Media Handling of Kenney's Government
00:18:22
Speaker
Oh no, now there's this other thing. So it's been hard to organize. And thinking even about organizing in the way that Kenny was ousted by the more right-wing people in his party,
00:18:33
Speaker
There is like an alternate universe where people organized, the people whose family members and friends and community members died of drug poisoning because this government moralizes around that. People whose loved ones died, not just from COVID, of course, but all kinds of delayed surgeries and diagnostics and stuff because of the broken healthcare system that they want to privatize.
00:19:03
Speaker
that all of these people would come together and organize. But because we live in this liberal capitalist society, every experience is made singular. And there's not a connection between all of these things, right? Between your kid getting COVID and you not having sick days to your neighbor's kid dying of drug poisoning, right? All of these people should be able to organize together.
Future of the UCP after Kenney
00:19:32
Speaker
this is not a failure on their part as individuals it's like a social failure it's like a cultural failure really um and yeah right knows that they can organize and win because they've consolidated themselves around strictly around exclusion extraction and capitalist accumulation they don't need to have anything more than that his ouster was an incredible feat of grassroots organizing it's just been yeah the fact that this came from
00:20:02
Speaker
or people who were just angry at him being thrown under the bus, almost immediately into him taking control.
00:20:09
Speaker
control of the party, but it was a feat. I mean, it was organized from the ground up through the constituency associations, years-long campaigning for him down. If you have to hand it to anyone, you have to hand it to the Kenny haters within the UCP who managed to oust a dude who had every advantage at his disposal. Every resource, every advantage.
00:20:33
Speaker
But they still did it. Why wasn't this people organizing for a better society for like in protesting Yeah, what he did to the health care system, which will take many years to recovery even like in an optimistic scenario Why didn't it happen from that speaks to a lot? Yeah, it's a cultural failure. I think
00:20:53
Speaker
Well, yeah, I mean, we do live in Alberta. So I want to go. I want to move to kind of what's next for the UCP because I think that is a very intriguing and also like very uncertain question. You know, Kenny is staying on for the time being. I know maybe maybe between the time this is recorded and before it comes out, Kenny will have actually resigned. But who fucking knows right now? What we know is that he is staying on his leader until the next leader is chosen. I actually fucking like this.
00:21:22
Speaker
I think this ensures kind of maximum chaos and maximum infighting between the faction that ousted him and the faction that still kind of supports him.
00:21:41
Speaker
stepped down and then there's apparently a very long meeting with, it was the executive or was it with caucus? I can't remember. Caucus. Caucus, okay, about what to do. Does he stay on as interim leader? Do they appoint an interim leader? I don't, we don't know what's going to happen next as of right now. That is right, yeah. And so,
00:22:02
Speaker
Shama, you know, what are your what are your thoughts on this? I didn't quit. I only said I was going to quit. Swerve from Kenny. Do you think he actually has it in him to like try and hang on with his fingernails after saying that he resigned?
00:22:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's hard to predict because this is, I think, the end of his dream to run federally. He won't be palatable federally. And that it seemed like Alberta was kind of a stop on the way to that. Yeah, I think the maximal chaos, I mean, for really maximal chaos, you could just call an election now and like, you know, solve
00:22:35
Speaker
But I do think the aftermath of this, the UCP will rejuvenate. They know their toast if they split. But it's so perfect for them because it's like they have gotten rid of the most perfect scapegoat because Kenny himself is so hated by every side.
00:23:00
Speaker
that they can, I think they'll win next year. I think that they will just say, oh yeah, you hated everything that happened. Yeah, that was Kenny's fault, but we're so ethical and we are so devoted to Albertans that we organized
00:23:17
Speaker
and got rid of him. And he will be built up. He has been, his political career here, built up is kind of larger than life that he was this like savior that came in and united the right against the like left communist NDP. And so it is a really great thing for them to campaign on, look at how great we are. We even could get rid of Kenny, who's like a political genius. So yeah, and I don't know, also aftermath like,
00:23:46
Speaker
I think that, you know, Danielle Smith has been, her name has, you know, she has announced, she has announced that she is running. She has a lot of, you know, conspiracy theories around COVID and things like that. I'm not sure if it matters. You know, white women are really valuable and valued.
00:24:07
Speaker
by right wing movements. And so I would not be surprised if they had a white woman as their leader. So like Candice Bergen, you know, MAGA Candice Bergen for that reason. Daniel Smith has announced her intention to run for not only a UCP nomination, but also for the leader of the party. And Brian Jean is the obvious kind of like dude who I think everyone
00:24:35
Speaker
I think all you have to do is show someone a picture of Brian Jean with a thumbs up next to Jar Jar Binks to just kind of... Yeah, man, I have that one saved in the whole room. I love it. Did they get Brian Jean's vibe? What's next for the UCP though? I think is an interesting question because I think we all agree the farther right kind of pseudo libertarian, but like conspiracy
00:25:01
Speaker
They are different from Kenny's like authoritarian, highly resourced, like very, very federal conservative approach to provincial politics. So they will, okay, no matter what happens, I think they come in and inherit this government. But I think Kenny over the years has built up a certain infrastructure within the party that leads to that authoritarian style, like the culture of secrecy that developed the, they're gonna learn from this and be in, I think just governing
00:25:31
Speaker
kind of more conspiracy wild grows, party-ish kind of political flavor to that. Sean, you mentioned how kind of white women are important to the conservative political project and a leadership candidate name out there that is relatively low key right now, but I think who I think is kind of one of the more likely people
00:25:57
Speaker
to, to both throw their hat, throw their name in the ring for the leadership race as well as to win it is Shannon stops, who is an MP in kind of central Alberta right now. She's got connections to the wild rose I think her partner.
00:26:12
Speaker
Shane Saskia, who's a former Wildrose MLA. She is, I would just put that name out there for y'all to kind of ponder on. I think there's got to be some kind of candidate from the Kenny camp, like someone from cabinet. Who though? I mean, no one fucking likes. Doug Schweitzer, Sonya Savage, someone of that ill. You got to think that like- Well, it's really unlikable. No one would have a chance.
00:26:38
Speaker
I know, I know, but like the Kenny faction is pissed, right? And you just got to figure that they're going to come behind someone. There is a, to get an idea of where the kind of pro Kenny people are at, I am going to read an excerpt from a Facebook post from our friend, a friend of the show, George Clark.
00:26:56
Speaker
Uh, you may remember George Clark as the guy who tried to get rid of Rachel Notley by having people sign a petition. Uh, he, the person attached to his, we were both there. We were both there in the Walmart parking lot, Steven. Yeah. One of the first times I had seen you since like college. Um, it was three of the five people there were there to just record it.
00:27:20
Speaker
Yes, it was amazing. But George Clark is a person of some influence within the party. And like, let me just read this to you just to get the vibe of where the pro Kenny people are at right now.
00:27:32
Speaker
Truth be told, I really thought that I would just walk away from the UCP if Kenny ended up leaving because of this stupid attack review. On my way home this evening, I was initially so deflated that I was intending on leaving this mess to those idiots that caused it. But once I started putting my thoughts together in a post, I realized that I'm never going to give up on what I feel is right for Albertans and I'm never going to give up on all caps.
00:27:55
Speaker
We deserve a committed leader who carries on Jason's great work. The 51.4% of us who voted yes will make sure that none of the people who tore the party apart benefit in the slightest from their actions. Working hard to keep the 51.4% who voted yes united to support one of our own will be enough to pick our next leader. I'm calling upon any of you who voted. This should be good and Clark is like in the context of this currently trying to get a petroleum byproduct campaign going through this government.
00:28:23
Speaker
He's asking the government for money, I'm pretty sure, yeah. I'm calling upon any of you who voted yes to please send me an email volunteering to help me to keep the Jason supporters united in picking a leader. I will set it up the same way as we did the petitions throwback to the Rachel Notley days, not controlled by the party, but by us grassroots members guided by area captains and united in a single purpose. Together we can rebuild the United Conservative Party of Alberta, stronger than ever, determined to defeat all threats, especially those socialists who would love nothing better than to see us emerge with a weak leader backing in rather than winning on the first ballot.
00:28:52
Speaker
Nobody from the no side will ever get our voter support. Not now, not ever. George Clark. Uh, George Clark, Alberta's favorite dumb guy who's actually, yeah, you're right. He's got, his influence is not insignificant. He's actually a pretty good organizer when he wants to be. I don't know if he's going to be able to make this sell though. And it probably is like universally hates getting, he's like one of the only people who doesn't in Alberta. So uphill battle, George.
00:29:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think they hate the NDP more than they hate each other.
Impact on NDP and Alberta's Political Landscape
00:29:23
Speaker
And so, you know, they will eventually consolidate. But yeah, I mean, they're going to try. They're going to make some noises because I think there's also like a certain kind of pleasure to this like combativeness that they're probably like, you know, it makes them feel like they're being politically active when actually they're just fighting over who's going to be like,
00:29:47
Speaker
better at exploiting like it's not this isn't a real this isn't a real political struggle in like any kind of like dialectical sense this is just like you know so i don't like that i don't think it really matters in any sort of like bigger sense that there's like a bit of beef because that's not actually where the the struggle is located um i don't i don't really know shannon stubs but i
00:30:10
Speaker
I do think they will find somebody who will go to immigrant communities and tell them, I know that you hated Jason Kenney, maybe he said some racist things, but come to the conservative fold for, you know, freedom and opportunities and stuff.
00:30:28
Speaker
And so I think that they will coast to victory next year. I think it will move the NDP to the right and it won't work because the NDP will want those progressive conservatives. That's going to be their strategy, but it's definitely not going to work. So I think there is a struggle. I think the struggle is between.
00:30:46
Speaker
Two different kinds of elites. I think the Wild Rose Party represents the gentry. People whose power bases are more localized tied to whatever car dealership they own in Red Deer. They tend to be farther to the right and more conspiratorial and crazy. And then there's the other side of conservatism, which is international capital, which Kenny behind the scenes very much represents. And the two camps are irreconcilable and they're hatred for each other.
00:31:15
Speaker
And yet they work in tandem in a very material sense. And so I don't think that for this kind of global struggle against fascism, this struggle doesn't matter. The global capitalists need the local people to do all of their weird social conservatism and things like that, too. I mean, yeah, of course they hate each other in lots of ways because of the globalists and anti-Semitism and other kinds of things.
00:31:44
Speaker
They do need each other. So I think it's very funny and I'm happy to heighten the contradictions between these two. I mean, I probably come down more on Chama side on this just because, yeah, like they'll figure it out. Like the United Conservative Party is not very united right now. They've never been united, though, ever. They were never united.
00:32:01
Speaker
They were united enough to win a landslide victory, right? So like, so there, there's a difference between being united in an internal way and an external way. And they were united for like consolidated around this external threat, which is the quote unquote left in Alberta. And that was enough for them. But of course there's been there, there has never been internal coherence to the UCP. Yeah, they all hate the green left and the wild conspiracy theories that they associate with it.
00:32:31
Speaker
as evidenced throughout Kenny's tenure as premier. Let's just work this out timeline-wise. I've got some rough guesses here, but we only have so much time. The next election is next May. It's May right now. It is a year away.
00:32:51
Speaker
I mean, I would love to hear what you think the timelines make sense, but I think like a quickie leadership race with a leader that gets picked at like September, October, giving the new leader like six or seven months to be leader, you know, like Kenny staying on until September, October, I think would be hilarious.
00:33:14
Speaker
Um, but, uh, you know, it is, I think it might be technically possible to delay that election. And like another 11 months, though, it would be highly irregular. If I can go into production mode really quick, he's going to try and punish gene that's in his character for this. Like he's going to try and screw him over in any way he can. So whichever.
00:33:37
Speaker
Yeah, it seems his biggest motivation to quit, not quit, and to stay on is to mess with his enemies that got him to this point, right? But even the timelines are like, OK, so you have a quickie, messy leadership race. I'm going to say like half dozen, at least a half dozen people are going to throw their names in the ring. I think there's going to be someone even kookier than Daniel Smith that will be throwing their name in the ring.
00:34:06
Speaker
which is wild to think about considering just how far off the deep end she's gone on cryptocurrency and like ivermectin and hydrochloroquine and shit. But one thing I can recommend to you is to sign up for Daniel Smith's newsletter. It comes out Sunday evenings and it's like long, like she doesn't have an editor.
00:34:28
Speaker
Her you get a peek into her brain man. It is absolutely wild So that's the like kind of rough timeline That we're working on right now year to the election leadership race that has to happen and essentially four to six months to give the leader some time to kind of like
00:34:48
Speaker
to pull together a cabinet and a budget into some type of coherent platform. Let's get into prediction mode again and go into the general. I think Shama, you've been very clear that you don't believe the NDP are going to be successful in this next general.
00:35:06
Speaker
even though I'm going to run down all of the advantages they currently have. They've been leading in the polls for the past two years. The NDP have out fundraised the UCP for the past couple of years as well. They are nominating candidates. You would hope that an election like this would be an election that would play to their strengths, i.e. healthcare.
00:35:29
Speaker
given just how fucked up the healthcare system is, you think that even with all of those advantages, the NDP still are not going to be able to win.
00:35:38
Speaker
You know, it's my pessimism of the intellect because I do think that Kenny's resignation is a break. And so all of the fundraising, I mean, they will still fundraise because people will give them lots of money with the hope that they can oust the UCP. But the polling is under a Kenny regime. I think that they will
00:36:00
Speaker
You know what? I would hope that they would win, but the NDP ain't great. And so it's not like they're going to fix everything. But I do think that Kenny's leaving rejuvenates the party. Kenny is personally vindictive, so I agree with you that he will try to fuck with Brian Jenner or whoever.
00:36:21
Speaker
But he's just such a perfect scapegoat. He's like a political Goliath that they can show that they're so ethical and wonderful and community minded or whatever you want to fake thing you want to put in there by getting rid of him. So I think that's going to be great for them to run on. I think that Kenny needs to be
00:36:52
Speaker
There's going to be a candidate in there. Kenny did this role very well. So there's going to be a candidate in there that gets that kind of support, those kind of shady, dark resources that will keep that element in control of Alberta. There will be a really fierce effort to maintain it. Like I said, Kenny did it well. Who could possibly do it as well as him? Someone will emerge, if not Kenny himself, to fill that role.
00:37:19
Speaker
Yeah, we don't vote for parties. We vote for MLAs. And I think that there will be all of that local campaigning saying, like, look, I was on the anti-Kenny side, this or that. But yeah, I mean, obviously shenanigans can still be pulled. But I don't want to be in the prediction business. But that's my maybe pessimistic take on this.
00:37:40
Speaker
I'm happy. I'm so happy that Kenny is miserable because I know that this, he probably had like a bad night, you know, and that makes me happy, but, uh, in like a really like personal way. But, uh, yeah, I think there's like dangers to getting rid of a scapegoat, right?
00:37:57
Speaker
I mean, that's why I worry about someone like Shannon Stubbs coming in who doesn't have the stink of Kenny on them and just like, well, I wasn't my problem. I'm here to rescue you from the, from the evil horde. I mean, I think the NDP could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I think, you know, if I was to put percentages on it, like I would still give the NDP a better than 50% chance of winning the next general election, like right now, but obviously we're a long, long way away from it.
Media Reactions and Public Perception
00:38:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:23
Speaker
We're a long way away from a general election. A lot of shit is going to change between now and then. It's a fool trying to make predictions in Alberta politics. I think we all agree. It's true. It's true. The NDP could still snatch defeat from the jaws of victory here. Because they have had the easiest job, just sitting back and all they have to do is just to express concern about horrible things Kenny does all the time and not really do anything about it.
00:38:52
Speaker
They haven't really been in a position where they've lost political capital over the last year. I think one thing that we need to be united on, which is that if the NDP fail to win the next election, the management, the leadership level of that party has simply got to go.
00:39:11
Speaker
Like, this is it. If you can't win this, you don't get to be in charge anymore. Because this is the progress report and because of the person I am, we can't do this pod without taking some time to talk about the kind of media takes that have come out kind of post-Kenny resignation.
00:39:32
Speaker
And and so I did want to take a minute to talk about the dear friend of the pod, Rick Bell, just because he makes me laugh. And and a couple others, if you have any others, I'd love to hear it. But like Rick Bell and Jason Kenny are like our buddies. Right. And and it clearly pains Kenny has friends. I don't think that he has. I think Rick Bell is always the closest thing Kenny does.
00:40:02
Speaker
But he like, belt loved him at the start, would just write love letters to him. Like he was a favorite sports guy or like a favorite artist. That's how he felt politics. The headline of his piece is Kenny never listened and now he's out. And here's a quote that I thought was quite illustrative.
00:40:37
Speaker
what the people of Alberta actually wanted. I'm just going to break in here and say that was a rare two sentence paragraph for Rick Bell back to the quote. So Kenny will be stepping down as used to be leader in primer. It didn't have to happen. The fall from grace is stunning. He's so sad that his buddies is out. It's you can hear it pains him. Yeah.
00:40:38
Speaker
I write this column with some sadness
00:41:00
Speaker
What universe is he living in? You know what? I'm going to connect form and content here. And there's something about the one sentence breaking up that shows a really fragmented way of thinking that I think is incapable of doing analysis. And so it's in the form of his writing that he cannot have any understanding.
00:41:26
Speaker
It's like a squirrel, you know, one thing politics is sports. I don't know. Yeah. I definitely think Rick Bell lacks object permanence. There's just the amount of emotion he puts into the tone of his writing here too. Like you can tell he's like emotionally invested in the fate of this.
00:41:57
Speaker
a little while there. So there's been an emotional arc for him that you can trace through his work over the years as he came to be disillusioned with this man he once fell in love with.
00:42:08
Speaker
Yeah, he's very sad. And it's because he invested so much of his public persona into building up Jason Kenney as this great philosopher king who was going to come here and save us from the NDP. And then it turns out, actually, Jason Kenney sucks and no one likes him and now he's fucking gone. Yeah, Rick Bell has the brain of a golden retriever. And if you've lost that's loyal.
00:42:34
Speaker
Yeah, but you know kenny's not smart He's not smart what he is able to do Well, he has a lot of connections because he's been in politics his whole life But he is able to say a lot without actually having any content to it And that's how he talks in circles and it sounds like he's using like five dollar words or whatever, right? Um, but he's not actually
00:43:00
Speaker
There's nothing like smarter analytical about anything. And that's why he, you know, this, maybe it's full circle to this, this like idea of like memes and like legibility, but he says the same things over and over again. And he has the same strategies. Like I reject the premise this or that, right? That became a joke, but it's because he has nothing else. All it's all empty, like copious language.
00:43:26
Speaker
I actually think he's really clever. I don't see Kenny as dumb at all. I actually think he's a very, very
00:43:35
Speaker
The way he talks, every word he says is very careful, very calculated, and very packaged in a way so that he can answer questions to the media about why he's absolutely fucking up the healthcare system. Basically the only way he can get away with him press conferences. As Rick Bell notes in this piece, he sticks to scripts very well.
00:43:58
Speaker
He's got talent that's like, and then like a raw, like Machiavellian, amoral political sense. It's all tactics, no strategy. What I'm saying is, does it negate that he's talented at this? I think that his ability to keep saying the same things over and over again, to stay on script. And again, this also takes us back to thinking about breaking people's brains.
00:44:20
Speaker
That, of course, is a political talent. I don't see that in the other candidates or at least the ones who've put their names in yet. They don't have that same savvy. But I'm just saying that this is all part of what allows them not to be good analysts either, right?
00:44:41
Speaker
Like he can analyze the scene of politics, but not actually like material conditions, which of course he can't because his whole thing is to like exploit people and stuff. Right. Yeah. You don't need to be a good analyst to be, to exploit people.
00:45:01
Speaker
Yeah, to me, he was it was all it was all tactics. No strategy. It was all about the fight and not about like, you know, the funny thing. I think that's such a great word for for Kenny. Yeah, like the thing about conservative politics, right, is that like it obviously cannot resolve the contradictions within capitalism and how fucked up things are. So this is why it's always about finding an external enemy to blame shit on. But here in Alberta,
00:45:31
Speaker
Conservatives are almost always in charge You know, so so it becomes this exercise and this is why leaders just simply are unable to last right conservative What's the line like the last the only can the only politician to finish out their full term since 2004 is Rachel Notley, right? Like he's only here to facilitate the cold extractive process of resource extraction and nothing else you represent Yeah
00:46:00
Speaker
But the other party, or like the Wild Rose party, or side of his party, tends to be small business owners. I mean, it's like the junior oil and gas companies that tend to have the most psycho politics. I think Kenny represents a bigger level of capital than these little regional warlords. Yeah, and I guess they felt... And then the NDP also facilitates the same view, right?
Implications for Alberta's Political Future
00:46:22
Speaker
Both parties. Yeah, NDP is also just there to represent the cold extractive process of resource extraction, but also
00:46:29
Speaker
probably not go to war with the doctors in the middle of a pandemic. Yeah, I'm not saying that they're like exactly the same or anything like that. I think policies matter and the NDP would have different policies. Yeah, I don't know. I think that the frontier mentality of Alberta is still very much there with leaders being ousted because you're not my dad. Like don't tell me what to do or whatever, right? Like that kind of
00:46:58
Speaker
bellicose attitude is part of Alberta culture. I don't know, like the right wing movements are consolidated around like charismatic leaders often. But yeah, I think that that there's some like pushback against authority in Alberta that that can house. It's an entitlement frontier colonialism, like it's the most entitled people in the world in the UCP, both camps.
00:47:28
Speaker
Yeah, they have every meaningful lever of power in this province, and they fucking hate each other. So at the very least, they hate each other enough to just turf their fucking leader, which, you know, I think we should take a moment to just revel in, you know, the sadness and failure of our political enemies here.
00:47:56
Speaker
Kenny is a bad person and he's had a bad day. And I think it's useful to not just move on to the next thing and be like, oh, everything's gonna get fucked up. It's like the bad person had a bad day. That's like, I will take some solace and some comfort in that. You're gonna allow yourself that moment. Yeah, absolutely. I just don't see this as a victory of any sort.
00:48:20
Speaker
And I see all the liberal types on Twitter just celebrating right now. It's like, what the fuck do you think happens next? You know what I mean? Enjoy your moment.
00:48:29
Speaker
Yeah, there's personal pleasure that Kenny had his dreams dashed and suffered a personal defeat. But yeah, take the bigger picture. It's the worst people who got him out. It looks very different than if it was actually workers organizing families, communities organizing against him.
00:48:57
Speaker
What if this is just a tactical retreat, though, and we haven't seen the last of him and he is hoping for another opening to run against and crush Brian Jean and Danielle Smith and renew his mandate? What if he thinks that that scenario is out there? I mean... What if Easton's back on the table, let's say, and he gets a big pipeline? Maybe he can't put it past him. I feel like even during his speech, I couldn't predict how that speech would end. And so, yeah. Who knows?
00:49:25
Speaker
What if he gets sick? What if his DC lobbying pays off because he's half lobbyist to like DC and stuff? What if it pays off? What if there is some sort of victory that he can attach himself to in terms of like getting a plant cooking pipeline in the ground? Then he tries to use that to justify himself as the only adult in the room who could actually like face the NDP. There's something like I sell it that way. So now I can see it. He's staying on for another six months and like a lot can happen.
00:49:56
Speaker
I'm still willing to say that this chapter in his career is over. I think him coming back now is one of those very low probability events, but you obviously can't count them out. I mean, conservative politics.
00:50:13
Speaker
Alberta politics is fucking chaos and yeah never make predictions as I think that's what one of you said earlier Which where we just spent a whole bunch of time making that wasn't a prediction. That's just a scenario But I think we're coming to the end of our time here like what if you were to try and cohere this conversation into you know something worthwhile like I
00:50:38
Speaker
How do we understand Jason Kenney's resignation as a political moment? And how do you think it will actually matter for Alberta as it digests this and moves forward? I think the political moment, I'm just going to go back to what we were talking about at the beginning in that it hits his legacy that I'm thinking about a lot because he really
00:51:09
Speaker
like what non-electoral politics looks like and the extent to which it controls all of our lives. And it does a lot of psychic damage to everyone in the province and he's locked us with that. A little bit of political education, maybe that's a silver lining that we're no longer as trusting in our democratic processes.
00:51:30
Speaker
Yeah, I mean the acceleration of misery will hopefully radicalize some people, but I am not somebody who thinks it's worth all of the death and destruction and misery for that acceleration.
00:51:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think take away personally happy that he's out, but this is really a way for the like kind of Christophascist right wing to like repackage itself in a more palatable way, incorporate, you know, conservative immigrants to realize their capitalist destiny. Like I think this does rejuvenate the UCP in some ways, if that's not really a prediction, but
00:52:16
Speaker
They expelled somebody who was toxic, so I think they can rejuvenate.
00:52:24
Speaker
Again, I will just take a minute to say, fuck Jason Kenney, I'm glad he's gone. What comes next? Who fucking knows? I never make predictions about Alberta politics, but yes, it's not going, they're not by any means gone. The United Conservative Party and the conservative movement in Alberta is still very
Conclusion and Reflections
00:52:46
Speaker
powerful. They still have a ton of resources. You cannot count them out.
00:52:51
Speaker
And they've done so much harm already. And the legacy part that you brought up, Stephen, yes, hundreds if not thousands of people have died due to the actions and the policies of this government. And there was a hit during the 2019 election where Rachel Notley or there was some campaign ad where I said, people will die because of the United Conservative Party. And the United Conservative Party made fun of it.
00:53:15
Speaker
And they actually repeated the charge out loud. And Jason Kenney actually said out loud, people will die if the United Conservative Party wins the election. And people fucking died. And it's worthwhile to, as someone who is in the media and as someone whose job it is to interview people and to kind of make the world sense around them, it is important to remember that they were bad people who did bad things.
00:53:41
Speaker
they're going to continue to bad shit. It's at least my job and Steven's job, not so much your job, Shama, to kind of like keep, you know, paying attention to the shit that's going on and expose it. So anyways, those are those are my thoughts. I don't think they have to be coherent or united to do a lot of damage. And I think that's where we have to keep our focus on. Definitely.
00:54:08
Speaker
OK, we have come to the end of our conversation today. Time to plug your pluggables. How can people follow along with you and the work that you do, Shama? Yeah, so the best way to get in touch with me or to follow what I'm doing is on Twitter. So it's at Fritz Le Shaw. And I have a podcast called Replay that looks at pop culture, co-hosted with Desmond Cole and part of Harbinger.
00:54:37
Speaker
We should have a new episode out somewhat soon, but you can also find that on Twitter. Yes, very good. Podcasts, and also a fellow traveler on the Harbinger Media Network, so definitely check out Shama's podcast. Steven, how can people follow along with your work? You can follow me on my Twitter, just at Magooziak. It's a mostly a mix of local politics, Canadian politics, and just great animal content.
00:55:09
Speaker
So watch this space as we continue to delve into that. Sweet. And folks, if you're made it to the end of this podcast and you like what we do, join the 500 or so other folks who keep this little independent media shop going, put your credit card in.
00:55:25
Speaker
a small monthly donation. It really helps us out. We really do appreciate it. Also, if you have any notes, thoughts, or comments, I am very easy to get ahold of. I am on Twitter at Duncan Kinney, and I am on email at DuncanKatprogressalberta.ca. Thank you to Jim Story for editing this podcast. Thanks to Cosmic Family Communist for our theme. Thank you for listening, and goodbye. Bye, everyone. Bye.