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Fed election 2025 feat. Dave Cournoyer and Blake Desjarlais
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2025's federal election is set to up-end politics in Western Canada and yet at the same time the campaign period has been both short and uneventful. So we tapped a couple of smart guys to un-boring it: first Dave Cournoyer, one of Alberta's most knowledgeable political commentators. Then we talk to Blake Desjarlais, one of the rare electeds worthy of our rascal respect. More of Dave's work is available at www.daveberta.ca.
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Transcript
Introduction and Today's Topic
00:00:12
Speaker
Friends and enemies, welcome to the Progress Report podcast. I am your co-host, Jim Story. Jeremy Appel will be joining us later in the program. Today we're talking about the federal election.
00:00:24
Speaker
If you hadn't noticed, one is happening.
Interest and Drama in the Federal Election
00:00:28
Speaker
If you haven't cast your ballot yet, that's coming up in just a few days. It's a campaign that has been somehow simultaneously dramatic and kind of uninteresting.
00:00:40
Speaker
things may be poised to change in a big way, especially in Western Canada, which may see the election of some liberals out here for the first time in years.
Guest Introductions: Dave Cournoyer & Blake Desjarlais
00:00:49
Speaker
And yet at the same time, nothing seems to be really happening in this campaign.
00:00:55
Speaker
We seem to be where we are when we first kicked off. The discourse is still dominated by resistance to Trump, the tariff war on Canada,
00:01:09
Speaker
and the whole elbows up concept. And Mark Carney is still riding just as high on that as he was when the writ was drawn up. So Jeremy and I were at first struggling to find some interesting things to say about this federal election until we reached out to our guests today, both of whom I'm really excited to introduce you to. The first is Dave Cournoyer.
00:01:35
Speaker
Dave, and you may be familiar with his work already. ah Dave runs a political commentary platform called Dave Berta at DaveBerta.ca. And he has been one of the longest running center left political commentators in Alberta.
00:01:50
Speaker
He's got a ah deep well of knowledge about political institutions on both the federal and the provincial side. So I'm really looking forward to my chat with him. And following him up, we've got another great guest.
00:02:03
Speaker
ah We have... the federal NDP MP and candidate for Edmonton Grisbaugh, Blake Desjarlais, who's, in my opinion, one of the sharpest guys in Parliament right now.
00:02:15
Speaker
Edmonton Grisbaugh has some personal significance to me. That's the place where I first got into campaigning. And Jeremy and I are going to have a great chat with him. I think you're going to be as impressed as we are.
Interview with Dave Cournoyer on Election Issues
00:02:28
Speaker
At any rate, since Jeremy isn't here for me to hem and haw with, let's hop right into it. And through the magic of appending one computer file to another, and will connect you to my interview with Dave Cornet.
00:02:42
Speaker
It's always hard to tell. i mean, in general in elections in general, like what what's resonating with voters or what like what what the big issue is. I mean, I i' have said in the past that like,
00:02:53
Speaker
you you know, quite frequently in elections, like the big issue in the first week of like the election isn't necessarily going to be the big issue that's on people's minds in the fourth week of the election.
Impact of Local Issues on Federal Campaigns
00:03:03
Speaker
Like when people actually go to start showing up at the advanced polls and show up on election day. But, you know, there's always possible, there's always potential for like really niche local issues to kind of miss the provincial or national radar.
00:03:17
Speaker
um You know, it's not always like that, but sometimes you see that in, um, in some writings where there's like, you know, I mean, like you look down in, you know, I'm thinking Southern Alberta, for example, um, coal in Lethbridge, you know, coal mining in that, in that writing. i mean, Chris Spearman, who's running for the Liberals has been very vocal about opposing, uh, opening coal mining in Eastern Rockies. And I don't know if it's going to be like a defining issue of the, of the election campaign down there, but it's definitely something that's on people's minds. And it's not necessarily something that's going to be on people's minds in,
00:03:49
Speaker
Calgary Rocky View Calgary Crowfoot or Edmonton Grease Spa, for example.
Provincial Politics and Regional Spoilers
00:03:56
Speaker
Well, you know us, Dave, our organization has been typically really, really focused on the provincial politics side of things. hu So Fed politics is not my wheelhouse.
00:04:07
Speaker
I just like actively don't pay attention to it usually. you know, I'm usually trying to point my focus away from it. So you're the expert today's episode.
00:04:19
Speaker
You pay a lot more attention than I do. I would really be keen to hear about any other local spoilers that you think might be coming up. You you mentioned Lethbridge. I think that there's the possibility of there being an issue in Calgary Confederation regarding Corey Hogan and the U of C crackdown.
00:04:40
Speaker
Aside from that, what other regional spoilers can you think of?
Contested Races in Edmonton
00:04:43
Speaker
Well, I think in, I mean, I'm thinking in my own, pardon me, my own federal writing. live in Edmonton, Grispaugh, and this is one of the hotly cont contested races um in in the province. Blake Desjardins is facing Kerry Diot, who he defeated in the last election, and it's I mean, it's widely considered. You look at all the polling aggregators and all the, you know, the the analysis, and it looks like this is a toss-up. So it's to be very interesting to see, um you know, how how that goes. And I know in my neighborhood, there there's a lot of orange signs. There's a bit more, ah probably a few more blue signs than there were in the last federal election. So that's, you know, Diot's people have been out campaigning. But that's definitely kind of one of the ridings to watch. But in terms of, like...
Federal Election Narrative and Trumpism's Impact
00:05:23
Speaker
issues. I mean, there's this, you know, there are, you know, there are local issues, but there, you know, there's this kind of defining narrative of the federal election campaign that has kind of shaped it into so far, so far, ah you know, there's still what 14, 13 days left in the election, but so far it looks like it's very much a two party race. And that's kind of like how things have been been defined. It's a, you know, it's a, uh,
00:05:48
Speaker
anti-trump or you know anti-Trump or pro-Trump, I guess, depending on which switch side of it you're on. But I mean, Donald Trump has really reshaped the prevent the federal landscape in this province, in in in Canada and even even in Alberta.
Alberta's Political Shift: Liberal Surge
00:06:01
Speaker
I mean, if you look at the, I was looking the other day at the what the regional polls were saying. And, you know, the cab with the caveat that when the polling companies are doing big national polls, you know, the the national poll sample is quite good. The region, when you start getting into the provincial or regional samples, sometimes the pool, the you know, the sample size isn't fantastic, but you can still get a pretty good snapshot of where people are.
00:06:23
Speaker
If the election were held on that day and most of the, of the polls, I think out of the nine polling companies, Something like six or seven of them had the Liberals, the federal Liberals, with more than 30% of the vote in Alberta if an election were held on the day that that poll was taken, which is wild because the Liberals, you know, the the last time, i looked it up, the last time the Liberals got more than 30% of the vote in a federal election in Alberta was 1968. So this is, you know, this and this is kind of a realignment election, it looks like it it looks like. I mean, that's not necessarily going to mean the Liberals are going to win...
00:06:59
Speaker
10 seats or 11 seats in Alberta, they may win four or five or six, just the way our our electoral system works. I mean, maybe they'll surprise people and and win more. but But just that they're having that, you know, they have that red wave across the country that's even resonating in Alberta. And you're seeing, you know, the NDP vote, like everywhere else in the country, appears to be cratering in ah in Alberta as well, and and in at least looks like in most ridings, there's a lot of voters who are going over to going over to the Liberals, who you know people who may have voted NDP in the past. Now, where that'll be interesting is places like Edmonton-Greespa, places like Edmonton Centre, places like Edmonton-Strathcona, where the NDP are actually competitive.
00:07:39
Speaker
um And you know they're actually in the race. ah Other than that, I mean, I think it's it it looks like it's either you know fairly safe conservative ridings in Alberta or liberal conservative races, especially in Calgary.
Technical Difficulties and Conversation Flow
00:07:55
Speaker
Before I um get into my reply there, Dave, you've got, I think something is catching on your mic. There's a oh bit of like a scraping sound that's coming through with the recording. Okay, I'll hold my mic up so I'm not, it's rubbing up against my my shirt.
00:08:12
Speaker
Yeah, that'll do okay me Yeah. Okay. Let me try and refine my conversation flow.
00:08:22
Speaker
Yeah, I suppose you might look at it in the other direction.
Media's Role in Shaping Political Perceptions
00:08:25
Speaker
You might look at it as though what are normally some regional situations are are getting completely flipped by this this instead cosmic realignment. And the the shift away from Trumpism is going to be such a strange and and wonderful thing for Canadian politics.
00:08:47
Speaker
I think back to one of the... most cringe-worthy things I've ever written with the report. And you might remember this one yourself because it it is it's it's very like electro-nerdy.
00:09:04
Speaker
Back when we were first getting cooking, we got into
Trumpism's Impact on Canadian Politicians
00:09:07
Speaker
some sort of argument with Kerry Deyotte, and he made some some odd like pseudo-threatening posts at us. Do you remember this? is You guys should be afraid, very afraid postings.
00:09:21
Speaker
i do I do remember this. I do remember this. And I have a funny story about about this with Carrie. yeah well I hope it's it's less embarrassing than the one I'm about to tell because Duncan and I wrote this really overwrought op-ed to the journal.
00:09:39
Speaker
being like, ah yeah, like Trumpism as has arrived and the politicians up here are doing Trumpist stuff now and it sucks. And actually when I say that out loud, it doesn't sound like it was such a bad op-ed, but trust me, don't, don't, listeners, don't go look that one up. i I have a ah construction in there where I use the word hence like four times in a sentence.
00:10:02
Speaker
Don't, don't read it, please. But, ah Like that was that that alignment was happening then just a few years ago. Right. And when that happened, that was like a cosmic shift for politics in Canada and had a lot of the lot of incredible knock on effects.
00:10:20
Speaker
but mean, we have arguably a Trumpist government in Alberta right now. I don't think i i would say that we have Trumpist provincial governments anywhere else, but we do absolutely have one here.
Danielle Smith and Media Strategies
00:10:31
Speaker
Or but maybe you might find the term like right radical populist to be a little... more accurate yeah Yeah, no, no, i get I've referred to to Premier Danielle Smith as the Trumpiest Premier in in Canadian politics. And I think that probably – I would argue that also extends to the like the senior staff she has in her office.
00:10:54
Speaker
I think that they – they marinate in that kind of mega media universe in a way that other provincial premiers and their close advisors don't.
00:11:05
Speaker
um And, you know, you can see that with the kind of the, the, the enthusiasm in which they, you know, they go after American media, and pardon mean not just American media, but they go after the kind of mega universe media. And I think Danielle Smith, she's, she's really the only premier,
00:11:23
Speaker
that can really reach out and and immerse herself in that media environment that we have right now. like i think I don't think there's any other premier that could comfortably go on to Ben Shapiro or you know ah go on to Jordan Peterson or you know those kind of podcasts or the Newsmax kind of media environment. It's interesting to think how how Doug would act in that environment.
00:11:49
Speaker
You're talking about Doug ford or Yes, because I think Doug would be adept enough to operate in that environment, but it would feel weird, right? he He obviously would not be harmonious with Yeah. And I think, i think, you know, Daniel Smith, I mean, she is a media personality. Like she actually, she was a radio host. She was, she did host a television show. She's, you know, she was a newspaper columnist. So she is, you know, she's a politician, but she understands that world. And I think that she really is very comfortable. I mean, she's very comfortable in front of a, in front of a microphone, in front of a television camera already. And, you know very comfortable standing at a podium and, and, and a very, you know, a politician who gets under, is underestimated quite frequently.
00:12:30
Speaker
Um, But I think specifically in that kind of mega universe, I think she's very comfortable, um very comfortable in it.
00:12:40
Speaker
ah Yeah, she was just down at the, was it Canada Strong and Free Network Conference? What was the name of the conference where the the the liberal kids dropped those buttons the other day? That's right.
Humorous Anecdotes and Political Encounters
00:12:52
Speaker
That's the the Canada Strong and Free Network, formerly known as the Manning Centre.
00:12:56
Speaker
Or the manding network and Manning Networking Conference. What a strange incident. I want to ask you about this one, but let's rewind for a second. Sure. I might have to do a little cut and paste in post.
00:13:08
Speaker
um you You intimated that you had a funny Carrie Diot story. Oh, yeah. So this was right after um right after Carrie Diot sent that tweet to Progress Alberta that you'd mentioned, right after when Progress Alberta was getting started and And I sent him a reply saying, ah you know, because I think at the time i was on, when when when Progress Alberta was created, there was kind of an advisory board that was created, or board of advisors that was created when when it started. And i was I was helping out with that.
00:13:38
Speaker
And I sent him a reply back on Twitter saying, you know, do you have, you know, i see you have some issues, you know, I'd be happy to chat as someone who supports the organization and what they're trying to do.
00:13:50
Speaker
I'd be happy to happy to chat with you anytime, Kerry. And, and he never replied to me. But then about, ah i don't know, a week or two later, I was at an event at the Yellowhead Brewery downtown. And anybody who's been to the had been to the Yellowhead Brewery, i actually don't even know if it's still operating, but um they had like a reception area that you could rent. And there was an event in there.
00:14:09
Speaker
And when you walk in, there's like a narrow kind of like hallway like thing with tables, like high tables, bar tables you could to sit at, stand at. And then there's kind of the the reception area with the tables and the booths in the back and the stage.
00:14:23
Speaker
And I was there, it was packed. um And I was there with a friend and we were talking and Carrie Diot comes in. And, and this was really funny, right? Because we kind of make eye contact and I was, I was interested in talking with him. I mean, I, I'm fine with Terry knocked on my, I live in Greece, Paul and Kerry D got knocked on my door a few months ago and we had a chat.
00:14:42
Speaker
um But he, ah he kind of looked at me and then kind of moved his eyes. Like he, you know, didn't like he, like he didn't see me. And then he had to, to get into the event, he had to walk right past me, but he you know, the, the way he, he walked in is he, he,
00:14:57
Speaker
walked in and threw and passed me, but then he turned his back to me and kind of walked sideways through the crowd. um And it was quite funny. And I, you know, I didn't get a chance to talk to him about his, you know, his his concerns or his threat against um ah Progress Alberta ah that night. And I haven't had a chance to talk with him since about that since. um I think it's that's a long gone longgone topic by now, but but it was it was really funny.
00:15:21
Speaker
um And I think it goes to show that, you know, people, they say things on social media, but when you, you know when you try to confront them in real life or want to talk about it and in in in real person, in in in person, it's you know it's a little bashful.
00:15:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So I thought that was you know not exactly the the best the best moment for an elected representative. But quite funny, quite funny though. He probably does not shy away at this point. Now that he's been marinating in rebel media world for a while, I'm sure he's he's pretty used to getting belligerent.
00:16:01
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I wonder i wonder if... um <unk>d I'd be interested to see, I don't know if there's any forum, actually any all-candidates forums actually being held in Edmonton-Greisbaugh in this federal election, but it'd be interesting to see you know if there was a forum and if he did show up, because I know some you know conservative candidates don't always show up to election forums, um how he would how he would interact with the other candidates and and you know would people to could be able to take a look at what does politics really look like these days.
00:16:32
Speaker
Now, before I... interrupted the flow of conversation. we were talking about federal candidates, Trumpism, radical populists.
00:16:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think... I think I lost the thread. No, that's okay. I think one one of the one of the interesting things I think that i've I've been thinking a lot about in this federal election and a lot about in provincial politics too, because I think you can really, when you start to think about it, you can really see this you know, see the outline of this in provincial politics in Alberta is how people are experiencing this election. And I mean that through, you know, we all live in our own in 2025, we all kind of live in our own media ecosystems, we see what the algorithm dishes out for us, our own, you know, our own personal social media algorithms, we, you know, there's no shortage of
00:17:22
Speaker
of political news and media sources that we go to. um And I really wonder how different people are experiencing this federal election. And I mean, I think about the some of the recent polls that have come out. And you know you have this situation where in Alberta, you have one poll coming out, and I cannot remember which pollster it was. It might have been ECOS, but I can't remember which pollster it was that said,
00:17:45
Speaker
20 to 25% of Albertans would vote for you know or would support Alberta becoming its own country or separating from Canada. And that was in response to Preston Manning's op-ed in the Globe and Mail and some of them the stuff that Daniel Smith has been been toying with.
00:17:59
Speaker
And then at the same time, you have you know it's similar or same polls saying that 30% Albertans or more would vote liberal federal liberal in this federal election. And I mean, I just think about how these two groups of Albertans, you know, the 20, 25% who would vote for, who say they would vote for separation and, you know, the 30, 35% who say they would vote liberal, how they're experiencing this election very differently. And they may be seeing, you know, when they, when they look in their, you know on their social media feeds, where they go to where they search for news and,
00:18:28
Speaker
mean, there's a good chance that a lot of those people are not seeking information in the same sources and they're not experiencing this election in the same way. And I really wonder what the but the repercussions for that will be after this federal election. I don't think this is anything that's a unique, it's necessarily maybe those issues are unique to Alberta, but I don't think that it's unique to Alberta that people are experiencing this election differently. but But I do really wonder in terms of of national unity in terms of of our politics, how those two groups will respond to the results of the federal election. Like, what if it is a big liberal majority government, like the polls and the projections are pointing to you today, ah you know, 13, 14 days ahead the federal election?
00:19:10
Speaker
um You know, how will those people who are experiencing the election in a media ecosystem where, ah you know, where Mark Carney is, you know, Justin Trudeau 2.0 and Pierre Paulyev is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
00:19:24
Speaker
um And how is that going to be different than the people who are experiencing the election, you know, you know, in an ecosystem where Pierre Paulyev is. Mega Maple and the Conservatives are the worst thing ever because they're basically like the Republicans.
00:19:38
Speaker
and And I do wonder, you know, in terms of like national unity and in terms of just our in terms of our politics, I wonder about that. and the thing that they got me thinking about it, I'm going on a tangent here, Jim, so just interrupt me if you if if if if you want. But the thing that got me thinking about it was the...
00:19:54
Speaker
political political scandals, the kind of ah montage of political scandals that are happening at the provincial level level in Alberta. And the big one I was thinking of was the, ah what...
00:20:05
Speaker
Some people have been calling the dodgy contract scandal. The nd provincial NDP have been calling it corrupt care. ah This whole scandal with the firing of the Alberta Health Services CEO and the allegations around political interference and price gouging with private surgical contracts and connections, you know alleged connections to the Turkish off-brand children's Tylenol and and this whole kind of web of of allegations and scandals that are going on in the in in the provincial government. And I really wonder, it got me thinking about going back 10 years ago, 11, 12 years ago, and the scandals that brought down Alison Redford's government.
00:20:41
Speaker
And that was, you know, people remember, people think about the Sky Palace and, you you know, and the $45,000 flight to South Africa. And those were kind of the big ones. But There was like a buildup.
00:20:52
Speaker
There was like, there were a lot of things going on and there was a lot of scandal and there was a lot of, a lot of ah internal disunity in the progressive conservative party and, and, and issues with Alison Redford's leadership and, and, you know, and, and stuff with the caucus and cabinet.
00:21:07
Speaker
um But I wonder, you know, 12, 11, 11, 12 years later, like, would that same scandal happen? would that same scandal lead to a premier resigning. And because, you know, even 10, 12 years ago, I mean, the media ecosystem, the social media ecosystem that we exist in, that we we we go to to find information was vastly different than it is today.
00:21:27
Speaker
And yeah, vastly. Yeah. so I would say no, I would say no, it it wouldn't bring them down at this point. yeah I think we're in, and this is a ah really, um,
00:21:39
Speaker
I think it's funny, the position that the conservatives have got themselves into. And by conservative there, I think I'm speaking more broadly, like small C conservatives, the entire movement over there.
00:21:55
Speaker
In that over the past few years, the information ecosystem has been really aggressively degraded. Like for me, this is going to be my first election in a while that is not Twitter assisted, you know, um,
00:22:10
Speaker
it It used to be that every little bit of oppo was blasted out along these channels and that everyone got every bit of news very quickly. And then, as you said, the the algorithms started to get in the way.
00:22:22
Speaker
And then the algorithms and the sites using them were completely, as Cory Doctorow would would term it, and shitified. You can't even post news on on Facebook, right?
00:22:35
Speaker
You can't post any news about the election on Facebook. If you try, Facebook tells you the Canadian government is censoring you. You can't post news here, which which is not true. And then on Twitter, you know, the whole place is is full of robot Nazis and that the algorithm shows you weird garbage.
00:22:55
Speaker
You can get your news kind of clean if you go over onto Blue Sky, which is where Progress Alberta is doing most of its social these days. But it's I mean, it's it's sparse over there, right? The population is a lot lower.
00:23:08
Speaker
And then there are these masses of people that I mean, I have absolutely idea. way of reaching who are over on like telegram or getting their news from yeg wave stuff like this right yeah yeah and this is a media environment that i think was created deliberately by the conservative movement and its corporate backers along the the kind of like the Steve Bannon flooded with shit strategy in order to get rid of accountability because they were getting creamed all the time by these scandals.
00:23:42
Speaker
Only now they've created this information ecosystem where only kind of the top line, the broadest, lowest detail message gets across in election season.
00:23:53
Speaker
And the message right now is conservatism is shit. Look at look what Donald Trump is doing to you. And that's the only message that's coming across to anyone through election. Regional stuff isn't happening at all. ah Like it's the worst possible thing they could have set up. They they monkey pod themselves.
00:24:10
Speaker
Yeah, I really wonder how, and I thought i thought David Coletto from Abacus had an interesting post on Substack, but would it be last week or the week before? And he was talking about like looking at his, he used used his family as an example, his kind of extended family. So I think it was, he talked about how he's experiencing the election. Obviously he's like,
00:24:28
Speaker
right in there, polling, doing analysis, reading, reading everything very, very hyper engaged. And then talking about how and he he he looked at it from a age demographic difference in terms of how I think he used his aunt as an example, and his nephew is an example, um someone who's a little, you know, maybe a little older than him, baby boomer, someone who's he was younger, maybe ah Gen Z, or, or, or, I guess, <unk> I don't know, I don't know,
00:24:53
Speaker
and I don't know what the with the what the generation is below Gen Z or whether whether they can even vote yet, but looking at like a younger generation, younger than millennials and how how they're experiencing the election, where they're tuning in to get information and and if they're even tuned in at all. And I think there's like a lot of layers to it. I think it's,
00:25:10
Speaker
you know It is you know conservative, liberal, NDP, you know we kind of we're where if if you have partisan leanings or where your politics leans. But it's also like an age thing as well in terms of you know if you're a baby boomer, you're probably getting a lot of your information from Facebook.
00:25:26
Speaker
If you're younger, you know younger than than you or i you know maybe you're you're getting a lot of and your information from YouTube or Snapchat or whatnot. And you're kind of at the mercy mercy of those algorithms as well.
00:25:37
Speaker
um I know on, and i don't I don't check my Facebook feed very often. I usually try to stay away from it because you know unlike 15 years ago where it was you know photos and updates of your friends and family, it's now basically weird AI generated memes and arts and its and garbage like that.
00:25:55
Speaker
Yeah, so I took a bunch of screenshots of these because it's election season and I'm interested in elections. So I'm looking up candidates through the search feature on Facebook. And obviously the algorithm catching up on that or is caught on to that. So I'm getting all these like very strange...
00:26:11
Speaker
um ah very strange memes and like very niche kind of, I would say like, I don't even know, I wouldn't even call them right wing, but it's very much, it's disinformation. It's populist kind of Trumpist disinformation about Mark Carney, about the look of the federal liberals. And it's very gross and it's very, and I'm not, you know I'm not, I think that, you know, the the the liberals have a lot of faults. They've been in power for 10 years. There's, you know, I don't fault anybody for voting against them.
00:26:42
Speaker
Um, but, uh, but some of this stuff was just like, it was, it was pure disinformation. And I wonder that, you know, if you're not, if you're not particularly, in gu you know, particularly engaged in politics, essentially, if you're a normal person, I mean, enlighten like you or I, who are, you know, we're, we're pretty engaged and we're pretty tuned in.
00:27:00
Speaker
Um, but if you're a normal person who, you know, you have a family or, you know, you work and you have hobbies, you do sports, whatever, um and you're just, you know, you, you occasionally tune into politics or it's something that's that's just there in the periphery. And this is what you're seeing.
00:27:15
Speaker
um you know I wonder how that is shaping what this federal election looks like for for them. and And I don't know if we truly know that. I mean, we look at the polling and we can see where public opinion is. And obviously it's public opinion at this point the campaign has has swung heavily towards the liberals. I mean, we'll see what happens again in the next two weeks. but but But I think that the outcome, as I said already, the the outcome of the election will be interesting to see how people react to it. Because if you've been if you're living in this world where you know you are only seeing
00:27:46
Speaker
pro-conservative media and it's being fed to you through the algorithm, how do you react when the Liberals win a majority government, if the Liberals win a majority government? And, you know, especially... I guess we get Trudeau derangement syndrome all over again, right? Everyone has to print out a whole new set of bumper stickers.
00:28:05
Speaker
Yeah, well, but I think that's front head firere that's probably already being done. i wonder how, especially specifically in Alberta, how people are going to react if... ah If the Liberals do win, you know, if they do win a handful handful of seats here in Alberta, if they do get 30% of the vote here in Alberta, what does that mean for this kind of separatist rhetoric, autonomous rhetoric that we've been hearing from Preston Manning, from ah from Danielle Smith, from these groups who have been, you know, planning this rally at the legislature in a few weeks, ah you know, this pro-separation rally? Like, what does, you know, how how do we how do we square that,
00:28:42
Speaker
square that circle as Albertans. Uh, if we went to the we enter enter the cool zone, Dave, the zone when, when anything is possible. I mean, uh, just the other day, uh, like there was ah an arson attack on a, an American governor, right? So some, somebody lit a governor's mansion on fire and almost ah killed the governor and his family. Like, um,
00:29:04
Speaker
things are going and in weird and unpleasant directions. And like you say, like there are a bunch of people in this province who are living and in a bit of a disinformation bubble.
00:29:17
Speaker
And if they wake up after election day to see that there has been a a liberal surge in Alberta, something that they find completely bizarre, unexpected, doesn't track with anything they've been hearing for the last month or two,
00:29:34
Speaker
some people may respond in some pretty extreme ways. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, think about, I mean, I think that's why, I mean, over the weekend, I mean, one of the reasons other than it just being, a you know, a pretty dumb thing to do, but I mean, you had CBC reporting over the weekend that, you know, liberal operatives or liberal staffers or someone connected to the liberal campaign had been, you know, inserting buttons as a kind of a tactic to mess up the conservatives at the Manning Center conference. I'm going to put this story in the show notes because okay sure so like I want everyone in who's listening to this to to go read the story. It's it's very funny.
00:30:06
Speaker
But yeah, Duncan, I'm sorry. But yeah, Dave, ah give them the summary now. Yeah, so so apparently, i mean, CBC has reported that one of the reporters overheard um liberal staffers or liberal operatives at a bar in Ottawa bragging about or talking loudly about how they or someone connected the liberal campaign had basically brought these buttons ah to to this big conservative conference that was held in Ottawa last week. And some of them said,
00:30:36
Speaker
stop the steal some of them said uh you know had the name of the conservative campaign manager jenny byrne crossed out and had coryton eyck's name put in and he's been he's was he was doug ford's campaign manager and he's been very critical of the conservative campaign uh under under pierre polyev um so essentially they were trying to they were trying to stir up shit and cause trouble is really what what they were trying to do but then yeah then they got caught then they got caught loudly admitting at it after a few beers which is really dumb and something you know you really shouldn't do. and And quite honestly, like you know the Liberals are doing you know not really because of any of the work they've done as a result as a result of any of the work they've done.
00:31:13
Speaker
They're doing very well in the polls. And they look like they're going to win this election. And i mean know if I'm the Liberal campaign, I would be really trying not to mess things up. Not you know not to ah you know not not to make these kind of weird unforced errors that could get people asking questions about the liberal campaign or, or, or remind, remind people about, you you know, the, the things they don't like about the liberal party, which is, which is, I mean, the liberal party's Achilles heel is arrogance. I mean, that's historically, that's what it is.
00:31:44
Speaker
That's very fair, Dave, but I, I do want to raise this important counterpoint, which is, it's really funny. It's, it's really funny. This, this little prank that they, uh, they tried to pull off. It would have been even funnier if people wore the pins.
00:31:58
Speaker
And it's even funnier after the fact that they just went and bragged about it. Like it's the equivalent of walking into a room and and just letting a big fart rip and then sneaking back out and and telling your butts that you just, you know, gassed somebody's meeting.
00:32:13
Speaker
Like it's great. It's hilarious. It reminds me of back in, was this 15? No, 17? When was the Mulcair leadership race with convention here in town? Oh, yeah.
00:32:26
Speaker
That would have been 16 or 17, 2016 or 2017. 16 or 17. I remember noted rascal Ferris Silvani. Ferris, if you're listening, shout out. Hey, it's been a long time.
00:32:39
Speaker
ah Ferris showed up to convention with a bunch of custom printed anti-mulcare buttons and was and was sneaking around, salting the place with them. And, you know, put a good effort into it all day. And then Tom showed up in the evening at Red Star to come shake hands with people. Yeah.
00:32:56
Speaker
And he showed up to a room full of people wearing anti-Tombol care buttons and it was having really uncomfortable conversations with people like wearing the buttons who who sought him up. Like it was the strong and free network. Like it's not like they were so we're skulking around polling stations, deceiving regular people, right? this is This is a room full of political operatives being trolled by some political operatives from the other team.
00:33:22
Speaker
And when you compare this to some of the actual like scandal and malfeasance that goes on in our elections, things like robocalls directing people to the wrong polls or people sending out misleading flyers and stuff like this, or even someone calling a limousine to a Mark Carney presser to try and give the impression that Carney arrived in limousine.
00:33:47
Speaker
Like all of those things I find are a lot, a lot more schemey, and unapprovable than this little button stunt, which was like a couple of guys and a button press and maybe like a $20 order to Canada Custom for some buttons.
00:34:04
Speaker
Like, don't know. I don't think this is going to derail the campaign. i did see some some people who I would not expect. Like Luke from Press Progress was ah super mad about it and was calling for these kids to be fired. I'm i calling them kids for all I know. They're like,
00:34:21
Speaker
40 year old that just guys but but still like it's a bit of like narc energy trying to get these guys fired i it was funny it was funny i okay i i get what um what you're saying that the the party obviously doesn't like it um and it and it is sort of a i mean it is an own goal sure but it's not like um like a team strategy that went wrong right it's just no no no this is fun this Yeah, this is like, I mean, very likely just like a one off thing, like some some trouble being people decided to be a couple people decided to be troublemakers. I can't imagine. I mean, you know, there's no way that this was something that was discussed at the high at a high level.
00:34:58
Speaker
And if it is, I can take your point, though, regarding the but misinformation bubble, though, that this might feed into some people's other conspiracy theories.
00:35:09
Speaker
And I suppose that would be regrettable if it did. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, we saw at the, I mean, i know I know at, I've seen reports from some of Pierre Paulyev's rallies in Ontario, and I don't think they were here in Edmonton when he had his rally last week, but there was, you know, people wearing, showing up with custom made hoodies and signs saying, you know, do you believe the polls? And, you know, really trying to sow doubt about, you know, I mean, really, i mean, either theyre they're, you know, they're one or two steps away from just denying the results of the election. They're one or two steps away from wearing a stop the steal button.
00:35:43
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And I think that's, I mean, that's deeply troubling is that, you know, people have to have faith and believe in the integrity of the election system in order for our elections and our, you know, our elections to actually really work.
00:35:57
Speaker
Yes, yeah, that's very true. And this and this whole conversation about about information, access to information, I think it leads right into the one question that I do actually have here on my notes, ask Dave about this, is, and this is more of a general concern. So folks, if you if your eyes kind of glazed over while Dave and I got into it, this is this is more of interest to everyone. Strategic voting.
00:36:22
Speaker
This is going to be a big issue in this election. I think it it comes up whenever you have one of these elections where the NDP or the Liberals are like unexpectedly surging past the other at the last minute, where you end up asking yourself like, ah okay, but am I wasting my vote five if I vote my conscience or do i you know do I have to just vote for the red guy to win?
00:36:46
Speaker
like Well, ah first I want to hear your your thoughts. like Where do you stand on strategic voting? Do you think that people should do it? i You know, i I don't like the term vote splitting because I think people should vote for the party and the candidate they want to.
00:37:02
Speaker
um And people shouldn't feel like they aren't able to. Now, the i guess the question is, is what what are you trying to accomplish? So when we talk about vote splitting in Canadian politics, it's very, almost entire, almost, it's you very, it's usually talking about how can we, what what can you do to stop a conservative candidate from winning? So usually there's, you know, there's, there's the two progressive parties and there's a conservative candidate. And,
00:37:29
Speaker
When we talk about this election, we're talking about vote splitting in the context of how can you defeat a conservative candidate in your riding? So, I mean, people would need to look at their own individual riding. mean, you can look at the national polls and, you know, in most when you look at the national polls and you bring it down to the local level in most polls, ah you know, in most ridings, if you're if you're in a competitive riding.
00:37:50
Speaker
uh, it's probably going to be a race between the conservatives and the liberals. And, you know, you go into, into so some of the competitive writings in Calgary, and that's almost certainly the case, but, you know, there's still the other party, the the NDP.
00:38:03
Speaker
And when you go into Edmonton, for example, there's three writings where the, uh, where the NDP are actually a factor. I mean, Edmonton Strathcona, which is Heather McPherson's writing, um, i think I don't think Heather McPherson is going to have a problem getting re-elected. It was the strongest and NDP riding in the last federal election. Strongest riding in Canada.
00:38:21
Speaker
which is wild to think that that that's in Edmonton. um But then there's two other ridings that are competitive where you're hearing a lot of discussion around vote splitting. One of them is Edmonton-Grispah, where Blake Desjardins, the and ndp v NDP, was elected in 2021, defeating Carrie Dillard.
00:38:37
Speaker
Now there's ah a lot of discussion around vote splitting with the Liberal wave happening nationally and and and provincially in in Alberta. and And a lot of people, you know, Blake Desjardins, his campaign sent out a pamphlet. I got it in the mail that said, stop the split.
00:38:52
Speaker
And it looked at the ah the election results from 2021 and it showed that Desjardins got 41% of the vote, I think it was. Cara Diot got 38% or 39%. And the Liberal candidate in the last election got, don't know,
00:39:04
Speaker
8 or 13% of the vote, very you know far distant. you know that Those results might look different in the in this election. so i guess they but But the the message they're trying to send is, if you if your goal is to have a is to stop the Conservative and have a progressive representative in Ottawa, then you know looking at the results of the last election and looking at the you know the campaign he's organized and the work he's done in the writing,
00:39:25
Speaker
Blake Desjardins is probably the best choice for you know for your vote if you want to get one vote for for a progressive candidate in Edmonton-Greisbaugh. That said, the Liberals have i mean they have nominated a candidate. He knocked on my door, ah Patrick Lennox. I had a great conversation with him. He seems like a very smart guy.
00:39:41
Speaker
um but you know But if your goal is to you know is to defeat Kerry Diot in this and and and and not elect a Conservative in Greisbaugh, then you know it's it's pretty clear that it's an orange-blue race in this riding.
00:39:53
Speaker
Where it's going to get really interesting, the most interesting, though, is I think in Edmonton Centre, because in the last provincial election in Edmonton Centre, it was actually a three-way race. Like, we don't really usually have actual three-way races in federal elections in Alberta very often.
00:40:07
Speaker
But I think in in that the the liberal... the conservative and the NDP candidate in 2021 all finished within like 2% of each other when the when the votes were counted. So it was like an actual legit three-way race. it was very close.
00:40:19
Speaker
It could have gone, you know, any of three, any of the three ways, ah you know, going into this election ah you have, you know, the liberal candidate, liberal MP Randy Boissoneau dropped out of the last minute. The liberals moved, kind of scrambled to find a candidate. They found Eleanor Olszewski from Edmonton Strathcona and moved her into Edmonton center.
00:40:38
Speaker
um Trisha Estabrooks, who's the NDP candidate, is a you know school board trustee, well known in the riding, has been campaigning for more than a year. um The Conservatives are running a candidate, Syed Ahmed, who ran in the last provincial election for the UCP. He won a nomination race against the former mp Conservative MP James Cumming.
00:40:58
Speaker
um you know, it, it, that there could actually be, you know, a three-way race, despite looking at the national polls, it looks like there's, you know, it still is three-way competitive because the NDP are actually putting a lot of juice into that campaign.
00:41:10
Speaker
Yeah. you know that Because the the liberals kind of spun their wheels so much at the start too. I think the liberals had picked a solid candidate right after they knew they were getting rid of Randy, they would be in a, I don't know if they would be in a dominant position now, but yeah,
00:41:28
Speaker
I think that ah the NDP would be in a lot of trouble in center. yeah They are definitely benefiting from some chaos on the Liberal side. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think, I mean, i looking at, I mean, know, the Liberals are doing well in the polls, but looking at the actual campaigns on the ground, and I follow nomination, the nomination races pretty closely, and You know, the the liberals, I think they claimed everyone, every one of their candidates here in al in Alberta.
00:41:53
Speaker
um And they really scrambled to nominate candidates because, you know, going back three, four months, liberals were dead in the polls. They were going, they were getting ready for historic defeat and they'd pretty much resigned themselves to losing all their seats in Alberta at that point.
00:42:07
Speaker
um Yeah, and I don't think it helped the brand too much to have Randy in center mired in a bunch of scandal to the stake of this, this pretendian stuff. Yeah, and it's and it's surprising that he decided. I mean, he resigned, the I think it was the Friday before the election was called on the Sunday. So it really was a last minute thing. which really is He was in the Freeland camp, right? So the writing was kind on the wall for him.
00:42:31
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. and and you know But then there's this big kind of bubble of liberal support, and all of a sudden the liberals are actually doing quite well in the polls, but they don't have candidates. They don't have organization on the ground. So they really scramble to nominate candidates. and And it's you know it's really clear that they're the liberal campaign, and you could even probably say this nationally is kind of flying by the seat of their pants because they're not really, they weren't really prepared for an election. They kind of, you know, they, they, they chose the new leader.
00:42:58
Speaker
um He was prime minister for nine days and then they pulled the plug and called the election and they're, you know, they're, they're riding the riding a wave of support that that didn't exist four months ago.
00:43:09
Speaker
um But you know the in in Alberta, i'm you know I'm not sure that their campaigns have have really caught up for that and caught up to that. And I think that you know they're their candidates are benefiting from a um from ah a wave of support that isn't really ah result of kind of any kind of hard work or organizing that they've done on the ground. And a lot of their candidates were nominated in the first week of the first week of the election campaign or right before the election. So um So there's, you know, there's a from a wave of support and from, you know, as as we just discussed a ah few minutes back um from this, this flattening of the of the the discourse to from this, this flattening of the the information environment. So this, this really can't be anything but a one issue election because they're just, there isn't band stream anymore for more than one issue, apparently.
00:43:55
Speaker
Well, I, To circle back to the strategic voting question, I mean, I have opinions. I have opinions on this matter. My opinion at this point is that no, you should just basically never bother strategic voting.
00:44:11
Speaker
And I think the way that I justify that, and this is a change in position for me because a few years back, I wouldn't have said this, But it is because the information has gotten so bad.
00:44:22
Speaker
In almost all of the circumstances, I think, where strategic voting would matter, those are where the numbers are so close that you really do need good information to make that call.
00:44:34
Speaker
And you just don't have that information. And then in the situations where it isn't close enough for strategic voting to matter, sorry, And then in those in those situations where you know it is so the gap is so apparent and so widespread that you can clearly make the call, you don't have to strategically vote because it's not close. like If you strategically vote in this election based off of the information that's available in the media, you're probably going to make the wrong call.
00:45:05
Speaker
You know, a lot of the polls are, as you say, just taking federal swings and then trying to mash them into their models because they don't really have good local level polling.
00:45:18
Speaker
There's, you know, there's no independent media. The corporate media is not really doing a lot of aggressive polling. we have a We have what our our cargo cult version of FiveThirtyEight, which does much less with much less data.
00:45:33
Speaker
So I don't think you can really i don't think you're go to really trust your instincts at this point. You don't really have the information to make a good strategic voting call in most parts of the country.
00:45:47
Speaker
So I think you should just vote for who you like. You should just vote for your conscience because you don't have good enough information to do otherwise. Yeah, I mean, I think, i you know, I mean, take a look at the queue, the candidates are in your writing, take a look at the federal leaders, take a look at the, you know, what, what, what you're feeling on the ground in, in, in your writing and, and vote, vote for the candidate of your, you know, of your choice, so you think the best candidate is.
00:46:10
Speaker
I think that's always the best, you know, the best choice, but the best advice is, you know, what do, what, what do you do you feel that any of these candidates, you know, reflect your views? Who do you want to see represent you in Ottawa? Is there someone, is there someone on the ballot that you'd like to see represent you in Ottawa? And,
00:46:24
Speaker
and and vote accordingly. And I think that's the that's the best way to do it. And you can inform yourself by looking at the voting aggregators and looking at the projections. and And that's, I mean, that's all, it's all very interesting stuff. And mean, it's interesting stuff for for politicos to talk about, but um I don't necessarily think that's something that you should you should use to, as the only thing to guide your decision on election day.
00:46:46
Speaker
Follow your heart. Follow your heart. Follow your heart, exactly.
00:47:28
Speaker
Anyways, Blake, welcome to the Progress Report. Excellent. Very excited. how How's it going at the doors? You know, the doors have been pretty good.
00:47:39
Speaker
I'd say my direct experience would have to contrast that of my first election. And I'd say that felt way more competitive than it does now. Like, it honestly feels so strange being out there. And it feels like I'm the only one asking people for their votes.
00:47:56
Speaker
And so people are often shocked about that, I think, both that I've come to their door multiple times now and no other candidate has come to their door. And so that has been a big, significant change from last time.
00:48:08
Speaker
It's just people don't seem to have a very clear knowledge about who is running in our community other than me. And of course, as an incumbent, you know, you you you see it two ways. You see one that that's great. You know, it means we've done a lot of good work. We've been in the community. We've done a lot the hard work. But it it asks a bigger question as to the value of our democracy, whether or not people take it seriously, particularly candidates and parties.
00:48:36
Speaker
And whether or not you know these two major parties in particular, the Liberals and Conservatives, care about Alberta, you know that's coming up a lot more at the doors because of the very obvious lapse and their seriousness of trying to represent the community like Edmonton Grisbaugh.
00:48:52
Speaker
So that's been a big change. and Another big change has been like Conservatives are like not Conservatives anymore. like you know like We monitor the the doors really, really well. like We are out all year. We never stop, right? We just keep going.
00:49:04
Speaker
even through ah even through a sitting term. And I remember a year ago, the same people I knocked on the doors were like diehard Pierre Polyev fans. And now they're like scared of him.
00:49:15
Speaker
Like they're outright scared of the guy. And I'm like, wow, you know, this is a 180, like I've never seen before. But other than that, you know, the support's been really great. You know, people know the assignment, particularly those who are who want to keep the conservatives out, namely liberals. They know the assignment. They know that, you know, I've defeated conservatives here in Alberta.
00:49:36
Speaker
New Democrats defeat conservatives. And so they don't have much opinion about the liberals, to be honest, other than, oh, I like Mark Carney, but I really hate Pierre. So that's been kind of the sweet spot for me to say, well, hey, you know.
00:49:48
Speaker
I can do those things for you. I can make sure we defeat the conservatives in this area, and I'll make sure that we hold whoever's in government accountable, whether it's Mark Carney or Pierre Polyev.
00:50:00
Speaker
you know We want to be able to hold a balance of power. It's interesting to hear you say that it feels less competitive out there as compared to last time, because from the outside, looking at the campaigns, it looks the opposite. you know It looks like there's a high risk of the carny wave really cutting into your numbers.
00:50:19
Speaker
Yeah, I'd say the air game for the Liberals is really strong this time. It's always been really strong, I'd say, in Canadian politics, especially when I first ran. You know, I had no illusions about the big airplanes that fly overhead that wave the conservative and liberal flags. But, you know, it's the totally opposite tradition I come from in political organizing or just organizing of any kind.
00:50:40
Speaker
Like you talk to people, you work on the ground, you ask them how they're feeling. And most people want to talk about their values rather than policy. They want to talk about how they feel rather than what they're seeing on the news.
00:50:51
Speaker
And I think that's a much more powerful way to campaign, but it's a dying tradition. You know, I feel like I'm the old guy on the block, even though i'm the newest guy on the block. I'm doing something that is old.
00:51:02
Speaker
It's an old way of campaigning.
00:51:06
Speaker
Kind of this traditional way of campaigning in Edmonton Greasebot though, that's how Janice would do it too, right? She was always just very active at the doors. Oh yeah, I'd say you know Janice has been great, done a lot of that good work.
00:51:19
Speaker
and know I wouldn't be able to speak so much about you know the the change in the other parties in those in that time, but I think New Democrats at least believe that our strength comes from the grassroots, comes from pulling the vote, comes from talking to people.
00:51:32
Speaker
And that might be evidence of the fact that we've had to make those decisions due to lack of resource in the past. But I think that's what major parties have to answer, is what kind of politics in the 21st century do we want? Do we want to continue this air-game politic where...
00:51:45
Speaker
We only talk about issues as they relate to the national media's questions on the topic? Or do we try to do the right work, which I think, in my opinion, is the right work, which is to try to represent the community and the constituency as best as possible, given all their differences and all of their nuances, that those things have a place in Parliament.
00:52:07
Speaker
I'd like to hear about some local things for sure. Jeremy, you had a list of questions about some some some local policy issues. Didn't you hear any?
00:52:17
Speaker
um no Not really. I mean, not I wouldn't say local, no. um But I did want to ask, um of course, um since Mark Carney became liberal leader and ah Donald Trump has decided to really ramp up his ah threats towards Canadian sovereignty and the imposition of tariffs,
00:52:45
Speaker
um You've seen the the non-conservative vote, the progressive vote, for lack of better term, really canol consolidate nationally around the Liberals. I mean, I don't need to tell you that.
00:52:55
Speaker
new you You know, you've seen the polls. um And so... I wanted to give you an opportunity to talk about, you mentioned values. And so um in in what ways are liberal values fundamentally distinct from new Democrat values? And why should ah progressive voters not just hold their noses and vote liberal in writings, not like not your own, where you are the strict, you happen to be both
00:53:27
Speaker
the new Democrat candidate and the candidate who has the greatest ability to defeat the conservatives. But in most ridings, it's not that. It's it's the liberals. So tell me a bit about what you see new Democrat values as and how are they um
00:53:47
Speaker
distinct from the values of liberals? Well, I think there our values are largely different in terms of economic values in particular. you know I've had to work with the Liberals before. I know them really well. I know their issues. I know what makes them irk.
00:54:03
Speaker
When I was part of the de Confidence Supply Agreement, that was like a real test in value and culture difference. you know When Dominic LeBlanc and I sit across the table from each other, you can just imagine the differences in discussion we have.
00:54:17
Speaker
But I would say that one thing that the Liberals and I share is a fundamental respect for other Canadians. So want to speak to that first, because I think it's important in a climate of division to speak of the things that unite Canadians.
00:54:30
Speaker
And I'd say the same for many, many Conservatives, with the exception of a some, particularly their leader. But for most part, I found the Liberals to be a respectful group of people in terms of working with us and even respecting our differences. And I'd say we've done the same with them. But we have fundamental differences, fundamental value difference when it comes to who should be included in our economy and who shouldn't. You could just hear it from the language of Justin Trudeau, which will be borrowed from Mark Carney, which is the middle class and those working hard to join it.
00:55:02
Speaker
you know That's something yeah i would never say, first of all, because I recognize that- That's a fake class. There's no middle class. It's a fake class. That's a made-up word. It's a made-up word. There's no such thing as the middle class. Someone tell me what that is, and I often ask, who is it? Tell me.
00:55:15
Speaker
Tell me who it is, because you're creating all of these regulatory systems, and When we had a debate about universal dental care, for example, I said, I want it to be universal. I want this to be adopted into the Canada Health Act. I want there to be a single payer public provider for all Canadians right across the country, no matter ah no matter their their status or employment.
00:55:37
Speaker
um They said, oh, well, there's some bad apples, Blake. you know They're going to take advantage of the system, so we've got to build this giant bureaucracy to make sure all these people who make a little bit more than what we think is fair are excluded from the program.
00:55:49
Speaker
This exceptionalism is a liberal conservative exceptionalism that is I find a danger to our universality and the work of universality, which I believe in, which do Democrats believe in.
00:56:01
Speaker
And I think that is probably one of the most fundamental differences is we seek to not leave anyone behind. We think that there's enough wealth in this country. There's so much wealth in this country that it can be organized in such a way where workers in particular can see a better increase and a better payback to their own value that they're contributing in terms of labor.
00:56:24
Speaker
We believe that they can get more back in their pockets and even more power. You know, this is something the right always criticizes us about. The conservatives are always like, oh, if you give the new Democrats power, they're going to be this big, giant government that's just going to take over the everything.
00:56:37
Speaker
You know, we don't believe that. That's the exact opposite of what I believe. You know, I believe that communities should be in power to make the decisions needed to make sure that no one's left it behind you know That's something that's moving economic power back to communities, away from Ottawa.
00:56:51
Speaker
you know And so I find ourselves often squished between the values of these two parties, which share values so closely. The Conservatives and Liberals in particular deeply believe in the same thing. They deeply believe that, in particular, neoliberalism, and I know your your audience will appreciate a discussion about neoliberalism, especially when it comes to the context we're in right now with tariffs.
00:57:12
Speaker
ah that this is a philosophy that I think is now coming to heels and we're paying the consequences of these two major parties decision to adopt that kind of philosophical and political ideology and to perpetuate that right across the country at the expense of our economic security.
00:57:29
Speaker
And now we're feeling the pain.
00:57:32
Speaker
Thank you for getting into that too, because that's ah that's something I really wanted to touch on in our chat. the um let me back that one up yeah this is something i really wanted to get into in our chat the issue of our response to the tariffs this um this elbows up stance that everyone is talking about i mean when you look at the metaphor you you put your elbows up not so that you can throw a punch you can throw a punch from any position really, but you put your elbows up so that you can block a hit.
00:58:05
Speaker
But I don't see a lot of propositions or proposals from people here of ways to actually block the hit in the sense of like things that are going to protect Canadians from what looks like an incoming gigantic recession, mass layoffs, inflation in the in the press of a important consumer goods, staples for people. Like these are these things are going to hit people really hard.
00:58:32
Speaker
I don't see how, you know, soft tax cuts and things help here. yeah What, what is elbows up? Like, what would it really mean to put your elbows up?
00:58:45
Speaker
Well, let me put this way. I can speak on my behalf in many ways as the MP and hope to be again reelected MP for Emory Grisba. You know, we have a huge rail that comes right through our area here.
00:58:58
Speaker
The CN Rail, giant train system, goes coast to coast, beautiful system. Unfortunately, it's not even owned by us. You know, like that's a critical vulnerability or our supply chains and our ability to move goods.
00:59:12
Speaker
And so that's just ah like a snapshot of reality of where we are right now. And just an example of the vulnerability we face, where one of the major stakeholders of that critical supply rail here in Edmonton is an American. It's galen it's not Galen Weston, sorry. It's ah Bill Gates.
00:59:26
Speaker
You know, if something like 16 or 18 percent is what he owns of ah ah national interest. something that should be a Canadian national interest for us to own, something that we would want to make sure we sure up if we're going to have any kind of base of economy in this country.
00:59:40
Speaker
We have to think critically about the services that are at risk. And I think those services that are at risk are going to impact Canadians really dramatically because of the free trade agreement that we signed with the United States way back in the 80s.
00:59:54
Speaker
You know, and I talk to senior progressives or even more senior New Democrats, we're reminded often of how Much we knew about the free trade agreement and the impacts it would have on Canada. We knew it was going to lose almost 500,000 jobs, which, look, hindsight 2020, we lost.
01:00:13
Speaker
Now, we're at the position where we're looking at our economy, wondering how are we going to defend against this massive vulnerability, this huge integration period that took place under the Liberals and Conservatives of United States, now that they don't want us.
01:00:28
Speaker
I say, let's look not too far, right before the free trade agreement we signed in the 80s, let's look to the 60s and 70s of Canada's history, when we had to answer the question of inequality, we had to answer the question of unemployment, we had to answer the question of why farmers could not guarantee the price of their wheat at a time when people were starving.
01:00:49
Speaker
You know, we built solutions at that time. We said, let's make Canadian solutions to these problems. Let's build the wheat board, for example, to guarantee the price. And I'm a rural kid, right? I grew up in rural Alberta. You know, as so I think about these kinds of solutions a lot.
01:01:02
Speaker
What if we were to guarantee the price of wheat? That would guarantee the farmers an ability to grow a guaranteed amount of food. And that would ensure that this really serious issue of of competitiveness with our with our wheat prices,
01:01:17
Speaker
can actually be consolidated into a much stronger position on behalf of all of those farmers if it was only managed the way it used to be. right We're suffering from a period where we've now lost many of the institutions that Canada had built in order to safeguard ourselves from this type of economic insecurity.
01:01:36
Speaker
We were positioned and built to be resilient at times of global ine global economic insecurity. And so I say it's time that if Canada, particularly if the Liberals form a government, they're going to want ah do the same old thing they all neoliberals do, which is dish off a bunch of money to companies in order to sure up their own placement in our economy without any benefit necessarily to the workers.
01:02:00
Speaker
We know that because look how many layoffs have already happened in Ontario. you know, 1700 steel workers off the plant already. We could have protected those workers And we still could if we invest in those companies, not to just keep them afloat, but to actually own them on behalf of Canadians.
01:02:18
Speaker
We have to be able to use that language because Canadians are sick and tired of giving these companies money for nothing in return. That's what's happening right now. We just give these companies a bunch of money and we don't get any jobs in return.
01:02:30
Speaker
All we get is these companies getting to take that capital and leave with it. I say, This is a time for us to actually take a ownership stake in many of these companies because we've learned that they aren't in it for Canada. They're in it for themselves, and they're in it to just get our taxpayer dollar and bail at the exp expense of workers and their job security.
01:02:50
Speaker
Let's keep the jobs here. Let's own the companies. Let's make sure that labor and management can come to a fair deal on what kind of production outcomes we should have. and build a real industrial strategy that puts Canada back in a position where we can guarantee economic security for those who are participating in our economy.
01:03:07
Speaker
When you mention institutions that Canada used to have and things that used to be leveling out inequality, something that really comes to mind to me is this the CMHC.
01:03:18
Speaker
and Housing and houselessness are huge, huge issues in Edmonton and Edmonton-Grispaw specifically. ah what's What's on deck for you on the housing file? What are your what are your thoughts there?
01:03:32
Speaker
What are you pitching? Well, there has to be, you know, similar to Mark Carney and the Liberals, I've actually been telling that story for a really long time, this story about ah wartime production of homes.
01:03:44
Speaker
I've been telling that story as as as as a way to answer two questions that Canadians have. One, the prejudice that I see the conservatives offer as to the problem of why we have a housing crisis, which is immigration.
01:04:01
Speaker
You know, it's often a wedge. Housing has been used as a wedge between immigrants and and Canadians. And the government of Canada and the Liberals have accepted that frame and said, it's immigrants' fault why we don't have homes, why we don't have jobs, so let's reduce the cap.
01:04:17
Speaker
And so for a long time, right until Justin Trudeau stepped down, the the conversation in Ottawa was largely about how we reduce housing. immigration levels in order to come to a position where the market could catch up to the demand of homes that need to be built here in Canada.
01:04:36
Speaker
I come at that question very differently because I know Canada as a country of immigrants, minus the Indigenous people, including myself, who've signed treaties to guarantee that people can come here and share this place.
01:04:50
Speaker
In that promise, we made sure that we would not only have a home for everyone, but we would share this place. And there's enough space and resources for all of us to do that really well. And what we see back after World War II was this huge period of war brides and families coming from Europe.
01:05:08
Speaker
coming to Edmonton, coming to all these major cities and find themselves living in basements, living in in-laws' homes, overcrowded. And guess what happened? Do you think people blamed all the nor all the Dutch immigrants that came here?
01:05:22
Speaker
No. Canada said, let's build homes for all these good Canadians and their war brides and their families that are coming over here. I met someone named Margaret who told me this whole story when I went door knocking in Rat Creek.
01:05:35
Speaker
She was still in the same house, 98 years old, proud of her home, saying, I paid this off. I came from the Netherlands. I was living in my in-laws' home for five years until the government said, hey,
01:05:47
Speaker
The post-war construction company said, hey, we're gonna build a house. We're gonna build several thousands of homes. And I know that you might not be able to afford it today, but we would rather house you now because if you continue to live the way you do, you're going to find yourself unable to pay taxes, unable to start a family, ultimately unable to work.
01:06:06
Speaker
So the government built those bungalows that everyone loves to see across Edmonton. The government had financed the production of those wartime houses by creating a catalog of pre-approval ah pre-approved plans for homes to be constructed.
01:06:18
Speaker
And even at certain points did the construction themselves. So CMHC is a product of that history. Unfortunately, during the neoliberal era, which is the 80s in Canada and across the world, we've seen CMHC change from a builder of co-ops, of non-for-profit homes, of non-market homes, which offered government-regulated rental control,
01:06:47
Speaker
like low rent, like we've seen in the former PMQs at Griesba, former Griesba before it was developed, and even some that still remain, which have a reduced rate, a reduced rent that's subsidized, over to asking developers on the private market to do that work, saying, hey, private market, we have all this money.
01:07:08
Speaker
Maybe you should take this money and build what you want to build and build the homes that Canadians need. That kind of solution sounds great to some, especially if you're a developer, but if you're someone who is in need of a home that you know is outside of your price range, if you're already paying 50% of your income on accommodations, you can't afford anything more, but there isn't enough of that affordable rent, those subsidized rent-controlled units
01:07:42
Speaker
that allows them to participate in our economy or even in society because of the program of CMHC today, because of how they're operating. And you'd have to look no further than the situation at Canada lands over in Greece, but a sea, you can't replace 50 units of government rent controlled subsidized units with for-profit homes that creates houselessness.
01:08:11
Speaker
You can go look at it live time in Greasebo right now. I talk to those people all the time and they're terrified of when they will be evicted because the government's going to demolish them and sell it off to developers to build something they can't afford.
01:08:24
Speaker
When we have the power right now to use public lands to build public homes so that these people can get back on their feet, raise a good, decent family, and live the life and promise that most Canadians were told was possible.
01:08:37
Speaker
right That's the kind of future that's so close to us. It's like within inches of our future, but we still have two major parties who believe the market needs people to be poor.
01:08:50
Speaker
The market needs people to be unemployed. The market needs people to be unhoused. That's simply unacceptable.
01:08:59
Speaker
Folks, if you're wondering about that PMQ story, there was some coverage of it a while back by Lauren Boothby from the Journal, I think. Yes, yes. Correctly. So we'll put that the show notes for you.
01:09:09
Speaker
That'd be great, yeah. Yeah, they promised 20% affordability, and you'll see that way below that target.
01:09:18
Speaker
Yeah, i um I wanted to ask you, Blake, about... um tax policy, because you mentioned earlier that, you know, a key difference between the new Democrats on one hand and the liberals and conservatives on the other is that the liberals in particular are hyper focused on the middle class. And and I think the conservatives too, at least rhetorically are right. The middle class and people who are trying to join it, which you acknowledged is, is a construct.
01:09:49
Speaker
um But, If you look at, yeah I mean, your party's income tax proposal, um you know, i mean, it is focused on cutting taxes ah you know for people ah in the middle class and and and below. it is more progressive than what the liberals and conservatives are offering in terms of shifting the tax burden upwards towards the wealthier, right? By increasing the basic personal exemption for people who make, I believe, under 170K and then increasing it and decreasing it for people who make over.
01:10:29
Speaker
um But um i couldn't help but wonder, I mean, last election, and I think maybe even the last two elections, um you know, your party campaigned on a wealth tax, right? On um introducing a new special tax for the wealthiest Canadians that is quite small, but would raise a lot of money because there is so much wealth in Canada, as we all know.
01:10:56
Speaker
um and I was just wondering what happened to that. I haven't heard anything about it, this campaign. um in And, you know, mind you, there's still more than two weeks left in it. But um I noticed um that it was conspicuously absent.
01:11:11
Speaker
o Well, I'd say it's definitely going to be in there whenever the party decides to release a platform, you know, that's something that we can't get away from. I know politically that's probably a question for the masterminds in the central of the party. They're trying to probably play, you know, 3D chess with the the public domain, which...
01:11:33
Speaker
is asking questions about how we make life more affordable. you know and there's this And this is a contention, and I think, in all political parties across the country, even probably the world, as to how a political party, particularly a political party like New Democrats, can offer tangible affordability solutions that...
01:11:52
Speaker
position yourself in direct contrast to other parties. I think it's a really tough thing to do that. But I am very, very confident that there will be a tax, wealth tax in particular, and that is announced, it's probably not first, probably not until after we talk about other issues that are really salient to people like health care and and housing.
01:12:13
Speaker
And of course, the question of how you pay for it is always ones that we suffer, right? Because this is how we pay for it. you know We know that New Democrats, as New Democrats and myself in particular, I know, especially sitting on the Public Accounts Committee, just how much waste there really is.
01:12:28
Speaker
you know I asked Bob Hamilton, the director sorry that yeah the ah deputy minister of the Canadian Revenue Agency, I asked him point blank. I said, why can't you you know Why can't you collect the existing amount of taxation we have on the richest corporations?
01:12:45
Speaker
How much are Canadians losing out on? And he was very clear. He said about $50 billion dollars is lost a year to tax avoidance. Very calm and collected response. And I was shocked by that. you know I said, what?
01:12:57
Speaker
like That is an outrageous amount. $50 billion dollars for the existing 15% corporate tax rate is... Ludicrous, extreme, and radical. you know When they call us radical, you know especially the far right, they say, oh, we're radical because we want to give people health care and housing.
01:13:17
Speaker
But they're the ones who are radical because they're letting these companies off $50 billion dollars a year when little old ladies in my community are lining up outside my constituency office asking why the CRA is harassing harassing them for going over $50 when they applied for CERB. It's just tax fairness in this country.
01:13:38
Speaker
is I know why people are mad about their income tax because I see it too. you know I see these companies getting away with wild stuff um and it's unfair. And so at the very least, you know in addition to it a wealth tax, at the very least, what we need to see and something that I think is critical for the future of our economy is making airtight regulations that that are going to ensure that we have the power, the CRA has the ability, along with amendments to the Competition Bureau's mandate, that can give this country real teeth when it comes to corporations that are misbehaving.
01:14:15
Speaker
If we treated these companies half as badly as we treated the constituents in my community who had their bank accounts frozen because they didn't pay back CERB, imagine... what kind of wealth we would be able to redistribute in this country.
01:14:27
Speaker
Imagine how much lower people's base income tax could be reduced if we just made sure that those mega corporations paid their fair share and just paid the existing amount of corporate tax.
01:14:41
Speaker
right And so if there is to be a new wealth tax, I think that has to also that has to particularly target individuals. um Individuals like Galen Weston. you know He's a popular figure.
01:14:52
Speaker
He's someone amongst many CEOs across the country that offer themselves massive bonuses, even though their companies are paying poverty wages to those who work for them.
01:15:05
Speaker
People know that's unfair. People don't show up to work because of that promise. And so at the same time that we're talking about corporate responsibility, we also have to act responsibly as you know those in charge of of the public good in this in Canada to monitor the actions of those who are in charge of these mega super corporations and what kind of values they hold.
01:15:27
Speaker
and whether or not we should be offering Canadians to them the way we are. Canadians that are well-trained with the best public schools and the best hospitals, the best public roads.
01:15:37
Speaker
Like we've built so much public wealth in this country just for these companies to squander it. You know, we have to really revalue and reshape how we think about taxation in the country, and how we think about how our taxation is just simply not working for most people and how most people fear or feel that it's unfair, fear feel that it's not okay that they are being asked to pay a lot of tax, what they feel is a lot of tax.
01:16:06
Speaker
against the backdrop of those who do who can just simply avoid it. You know, that's not fair. And so in addition to a wealth tax, I'd say that we need to actually really go hard on enforcement of the tax avoidance policies that Stephen Harper put in place, which we're all suffering from today.
01:16:24
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, like most Canadians, I'm in the process of doing my income taxes now. And every year I'm reminded of why you know some people um become reactionaries as they get older and just say i just want to pay less taxes you know regardless of the details um so um i you know i do uh think that uh you know shifting the tax burden upwards is a very important part of an equitable um tax policy.
01:17:00
Speaker
um Thank you so much for taking time out from door knocking this afternoon to join us. um ah Was there anything um you wanted to leave our audience with?
01:17:18
Speaker
I actually had another question, Jeremy. before we get to the outro?
01:17:25
Speaker
Yep, go ahead. Okay. um A little lighter fare before we wrap up, Blake. That wasn't uplifting? yeah I mean, I enjoyed it, but I play Paradox Map games on my computer. Oh, me too!
01:17:43
Speaker
Let's talk about Victoria 3 next time. Okay, my question for you is, are you enjoying getting the opportunity to run against Kerry Deod again? You know, people use that verb a lot in politics, and I don't know where they get it from. The word enjoy. They say, do you enjoy being an MP?
01:18:01
Speaker
Do you enjoy going to Ottawa? Do you enjoy, you know, Kerry Deod being your opponent? This work much like anyone who's ever volunteered, much like anyone who said, i'm going to show up for somebody else, you know that you're asking a personal sacrifice of yourself, of your family, and of your friends.
01:18:23
Speaker
You know, because you can use that time to be spending with your kids. can use that time to be having a drink on your patio. You can be using that time to do almost anything else
01:18:33
Speaker
But I chose, like many of our volunteers, like many of the community members, like the thousands of people who donate small donations to us, they're doing it because they really, really believe in a better future. Right. Like they really want something to vote for and to be part of something that's positive rather than so much want to vote against something.
01:18:54
Speaker
And that's, I think, unique in our kind of politic. And. Maybe I'll put it this way. When I see Kerry Diop in public spaces, I always go up to him. I shake his hand. I'm that guy. I'm that kind of guy who goes to Kerry, even though he says mean things about me every time.
01:19:12
Speaker
He says mean things, sometimes even racist things. you know And I've learned in this life that holding a kind of hatred for someone only hurts you, the individual.
01:19:25
Speaker
more than it hurts the other person. And I think that comes from my Indigenous healing in my community because they've been subject to a lot of violence, a lot of pain, a lot of sorrow.
01:19:39
Speaker
And the question of how we deal with that, and especially by those who perpetrate violence against us. An elder once told me when I was younger, I was so angry about the world, I just wanted to burn it down.
01:19:52
Speaker
He said, Blake, you know sit with me. Have some water. Have some of these berries. i said, okay. And he said, you know, when they that old guy, that Sir John a McDonald said to kill the Indian and the child, you ever wonder what was left?
01:20:05
Speaker
I said, what do you mean? he said, well, they wanted something to be left. They wanted an angry man to be left. When they killed the Indian boy, they wanted an angry man to be left. Don't give them that.
01:20:16
Speaker
If you become them, if you become what they want you to be, we would have been colonized. We would have lost who we are. So always remember that our people's ways are ones of forgiveness, ones of love, tolerance, truth, courage.
Fighting for Unity and Mutual Respect
01:20:34
Speaker
And the greatest test of those is whether or not you could shake the hands of your enemies. And although I don't see Kerry Diodd as an enemy of mine, I see him as a Canadian that I would fight for if I ever was summoned to war.
01:20:48
Speaker
I'd fight for Kerry Diot. I'd fight for his rights. I'd fight to make sure that he had a good life in this country. Would he do the same for me? I don't know. Worth asking. But it's not a question I answer for him. It's a question I i answer for myself, the type of person I want to be, the type of person I want the little kids who are looking at me, who are thinking, he's a role model. He's the first half-breed or, sorry, Métis person. I just like grew up in a Métis settlement. We use these link this language a lot.
01:21:15
Speaker
because they get we get called these things. It's a derogatory term, though. But they say these, you know, how can I be a good person? And I grew up in an environment where it was kind of hard to find a role model.
01:21:29
Speaker
um You know, my dad was a pretty tough guy, and he was definitely a role model and later on his life. But as a young man, like most, who went to residential school, very violent and angry about a lot of the world. And I watched it destroy him.
01:21:44
Speaker
But I watched him heal from it too. And so I don't want to be the kind of guy that shows people that hatred is an option.
Hope for Constructive Campaigning
01:21:53
Speaker
I thank Kerry for offering his name up and for running in this upcoming election.
01:21:57
Speaker
And I hope that should I defeat him, that he'll not hold ill will against us. but would see hopefully that we were a group of people that tried to build something rather than tear something down.
01:22:14
Speaker
And no one could object to that. I hope not even him.
Endorsements and Strategic Choices
01:22:22
Speaker
Well said. Jeremy, sorry to throw you off your flow if you want to pitch to the conclusion now. no, those I'm really glad you asked that, Jim, because I think Blake's answer was excellent.
01:22:33
Speaker
um Thanks so much for taking time out of what I'm sure is a very busy day of door knocking to speak with us, Blake.
01:22:45
Speaker
Of course. And ah best of luck out there. You know, I'm not the type of guy, um not the type of journalist who shies away from, you know, telling people what I think about things. And I live in your riding.
01:22:58
Speaker
I'm going to vote for you. And I think that... If you're listening and you live in Edmonton, Griesbach, and you like what you heard, um why wouldn't you vote for Blake? I mean, he's the strategic vote as well as I think the the strongest progressive voice.
01:23:18
Speaker
Thank you, Jeremy. I think so too. I mean, the FedMDP has been the ABC vote, the anything but conservative vote up there for years, since at least 2015. Mm-hmm.
Community Unity and Progress
01:23:31
Speaker
I totally agree. And if there's one thing I could leave your audience with, it's that this will be tough. You know, this next decade for Canadians will be really hard. And whether or not I win my seat or whether or not any politician does anything on your behalf, just remember that your community and the people you live beside and the people who you get to call neighbors are never your enemy.
01:23:54
Speaker
There will be many people who try to say that, and there'll be many people who want to seek blame for other people. Just remember, it's never another person who wants to put harm onto others, but systems.
01:24:06
Speaker
And let's remember that while we go through this next 10 years of global reshaping, so that we don't leave anybody behind. You know, minorities have made a lot of progress in contribution to this country, and let's not Let's not forego that progress and inclusion for the sake of the security of some.
01:24:26
Speaker
Let's do it together. Let's fight together. And we can win together, whether that's at the ballot box or just trying to make sure your community is a better place. It's as easy as that. It's as easy as offering respect and kindness to the people you live beside.
01:24:40
Speaker
Thank you, Blake. I look forward to having you back on the pod soon. Excellent. I can't wait.