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The end of the Gillenium?
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The 20-year president of the Alberta Federation of Labour is up for re-election this Sunday. Jim and Jeremy take a look at the present situation, check out some Gil McGowan campaign literature, and speak to the AFL leadership candidate who didn't ignore our interview request.
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Transcript
AFL Convention and Leadership Race
00:00:12
Speaker
friends and enemies Welcome to the Progress Report. This a special episode of the podcast. I know you heard from us just a couple of days ago, but there is a special event coming up this weekend, the Alberta Federation of Labour Convention, which features notably a leadership race for the presidency.
00:00:29
Speaker
Now, the AFL, Alberta Federation of Labour, is a federation of trade unions. So this is like an umbrella organization that helps unions in Alberta coordinate.
00:00:40
Speaker
and which also functions as kind of a representative of the labor movement as a whole in Canada.
AFL's Role and Affiliations
00:00:45
Speaker
Right, it's not it's itself a union. Right, it's not itself a union. it's a I don't think I would exactly call it a union of unions because it's not like it does like, a you know, it doesn't represent the workers who work at unions. It's a almost akin to like a large professional body.
00:01:04
Speaker
You know, it's an an alliance of organizations. And it's affiliated itself with the Canadian Labor Congress, which is also one of these federation or or umbrella type organizations.
00:01:15
Speaker
It's kind of similar to America's AFL-CIO, which is an unrelated acronym.
Union Disaffiliation and Relationships
00:01:25
Speaker
and Not every union in Alberta has always been affiliated with the AFL.
00:01:29
Speaker
For example, AUPE disaffiliated from the Canadian Labour Congress in 2001 over a dispute about unions rating each other's workplaces for members.
00:01:42
Speaker
And that led them to disaffiliate from the AFL a few years after that. But they seem to be mending that rift lately. The AUPE has been involved in recent AFL campaigns.
Gil McGowan's Leadership
00:01:55
Speaker
There are some big players in the labor scene here who aren't part of AFL. Some of the the largest ones would be the so-called employer union,
00:02:08
Speaker
clack The Christian Labour Association of Canada, they are not affiliated with the AFL. The unions, quote unquote, who represent police in the province, they're not affiliated with the AFL, they're with the Alberta Federation of Police Associations.
00:02:27
Speaker
But most of the House of Labour here in the province is involved with the AFL in some manner. And that makes Gil McGowan, the president, a pretty important guy in the labour world.
00:02:40
Speaker
Gil's been president of the AFL for 20 years now, a period of time that some of my favorite Discord posters refer to as the Glennium.
00:02:51
Speaker
He's pretty well regarded by senior leaders of Alberta's big unions.
Controversies and Influence
00:02:57
Speaker
If you don't know ah this guy, you can recognize him quickly in photos because he looks kind of like Jeffrey Dean Morgan, Negan from Walking Dead.
00:03:07
Speaker
He'd be a good cosplayer. ah I would not say that Gill is as well regarded by more of like the radical left in contrast to the way that senior labor looks at him.
00:03:22
Speaker
Part of this is that the AFL under his leadership, I think has been perceived to be pretty moderate. Like Gill has not been the type of union leader who himself goes out and gets arrested at a wildcat strike.
00:03:35
Speaker
But part of this also comes from Gil getting into some beefstone then with folks like,
00:03:43
Speaker
Back in 2022, I believe it was late 2022, Dr. Roberta Alexier, who's a labor academic, gave a presentation to AFL leadership urging them to be more militant.
00:03:57
Speaker
And that boiled over into ah a bit of a Twitter fight between Gil and ah bunch of people that you can see the ruins of if you dial Twitter back to July 2023.
Leadership Campaigns: McGowan vs. Mady
00:04:10
Speaker
He's been in the news for a few other reasons over the years. He was charged once with a DUI in the 2000s, but that that was not found to, that didn't stick.
00:04:20
Speaker
um Ezra Levant once defamed him by alleging that Gil was on the cheat on your wife dating site, Ashley Madison. g denies this. I did not know about that. Ezra, of course, ah you yeah I mean, you can't trust any allegations from that guy, but In fact, in doing research for this piece, i I came across a false claim that Ezra made about us in 2016.
00:04:44
Speaker
He alleged that we had sent false flag protesters to a carbon tax rally. so yeah Oh, the ones who were chanting, lock her up? No, the guys who had the sign that said carbon tax equals sodomy.
00:04:59
Speaker
Ezra claimed that those guys were working for Duncan. that Those guys were on the Duncan payroll. Obviously not.
00:05:07
Speaker
In 2008, getting back to Gill, Gill proposed that the Alberta NDP and the Alberta Liberals should merge or at least arrange some sort of formal coalition. And more recently, he has made a few electoral attempts. For example, he tried to run for the Fed NDP in Edmonton Centre in 2015.
00:05:27
Speaker
And just in 2024, he was ah briefly a candidate for the Alberta and NDP leadership, although he bowed out of that one pretty quickly. He got COVID, is my understanding. He got COVID right as the race started, and so he wasn't able to really campaign or fundraise.
00:05:45
Speaker
Attempts to challenge... I'm Jeremy, by the way. um Attempts to challenge Gil for the presidency have been made before. ah The first time was in 2021 when an AFL staffer named Susan Cake challenged him.
00:06:03
Speaker
Last leadership, sorry, last constitutional convention, which was in 2023, because they happen every two years, a postal worker by the name of Greg Mady challenged him and came within 50 votes of defeating him.
00:06:22
Speaker
Greg, who is also the president of the Edmonton and District Labor Council, ah which is another labor umbrella organization, is challenging Gil again for the presidency this year.
00:06:40
Speaker
um The Labour Council under Greg is generally considered a bit more militant than the AFL under Gill's tenure, but not dramatically so.
00:06:53
Speaker
Still a fairly moderate organization. um Now, I just ah got back from the convention at the Edmonton Expo Centre.
00:07:09
Speaker
Because there's supposed to be a media availability at one. um I learned that um for the first time ever or for the first time in recent memory, at least past say 20, 25 years, um the vote on Sunday is going to be the, the, the the convention hall on Sunday during the vote.
00:07:39
Speaker
is going to be closed only to delegates. So none of the observers or other people who are attending the convention are able to be on the convention floor while voting takes place.
00:07:56
Speaker
um There are, I've confirmed, 500 delegates to the convention, similar to the numbers for 2023, and ah another 150 people who are observing, including organizations tabling there, like Public Interest Alberta and Friends of Medicare and the Parkland Institute.
00:08:22
Speaker
Now, Gil ah was
Slogans, Achievements, and Influence
00:08:25
Speaker
invited on this podcast episode for an interview, but he didn't respond. When I went to the media availability this afternoon, i was the only journalist who showed up and was told that Gil couldn't do an in-person interview um because he was in an executive council meeting that was going long and they were dealing with some urgent items from the youth council.
00:08:54
Speaker
I have no reason to doubt that, but I will note that in 2021, when i did a story for the sprawl on, uh, the AFL, uh, presidency that was being, uh, challenged for the first time under Gil's tenure by Susan, uh, Gil did not,
00:09:19
Speaker
respond ah to my request for an interview. Now, on the convention floor, I did get ah piece of Gil McGowan's campaign literature. They had people from Greg's campaign and people from Gil's campaign, you know, handing out ah flyers about why you should vote for their candidate.
00:09:45
Speaker
And um we have an interview with Greg coming up momentarily, but In lieu of an interview with Gil, I'll read you um his pitch that is in his campaign literature. And Jim, you can ah respond to it. His slogan is serious leadership for serious times ah with sort of like a sub-slogan, I guess, in italics. Together, we're stronger.
00:10:18
Speaker
And so it has a section on it um that says, know the facts. All right, Jim, you ready for the facts? I would like to hear the facts. right. There's checkmark on the other side of the box.
00:10:33
Speaker
Gil has stood on the front lines of Alberta's labor movement, organizing major victories when it mattered most. He stopped Klein's attack on health care. Did you know that?
00:10:45
Speaker
Personally? I swear, okay. Well, it doesn't say. doesn't say. Maybe he did. He blocked Redford's assault on pensions.
00:10:57
Speaker
Hmm. Okay. Like, I don't know. I just picture him like Tiananmen Square kid just standing in front of Redford. No, i'm I'm picturing like a ah video game parry, like a Street Fighter parry.
00:11:14
Speaker
He's just batting the legislation aside. Yeah, yeah. The legislation, not Redford, because that would be a crime. um He defended unions from Kennedy's crackdown. i mean, he did do that.
00:11:27
Speaker
That I can attest to because I lived here at the time. Yeah, he was outspoken he was pretty outspoken during the COVID period. I'll grant him that. Yeah, I mean, the question, I think, Greg's people...
00:11:40
Speaker
would raise is whether he was effective in doing so. And that's of course, yes, for AFL to decide, not us. Um, there's more, Gil has also foiled Harper's plan to draw down wages,
00:11:55
Speaker
um secured real gains for Alberta workers from Notley and Trudeau.
00:12:03
Speaker
Um, and then it says Gil is also the best choice two protect your pension, And um this one's interesting. Convince the NDP to be a real, in all caps, workers party.
00:12:19
Speaker
um that's a That's an odd inclusion. yeah These other claims, I mean, they're bold claims of past victories that i
AFL's Common Front Campaign
00:12:30
Speaker
I don't know if they were actual victories.
00:12:33
Speaker
But but this this this this last one's a little different. I mean, Gil... I think if if you would ask most commentators around the province, Gill has been seen for a long time as like an ah an Alberta NDP stalwart, you know, someone who has been more effective at influencing unions to fall in line with the NDP than the other way around.
00:13:02
Speaker
And so this suggestion that Gil is going to change the direction of the Alberta or federal NDP is is a little weird to me.
00:13:13
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he ran in the NDP leadership race as- Right. And his and he's he's run as an NDP candidate before.
00:13:25
Speaker
But I don't know if that's just so much like entryism as just like a career change for him, you know? You know, i would suggest, take it as you will, that um he wasn't effective in his ah ambitions ah for the NDP leadership. Not because he didn't win, because I don't think that was his game plan.
00:13:49
Speaker
But, um you know, I was actually quite intrigued by his candidacy because I thought, especially in a race ah where someone like Nahid Nenshi was probably going to win,
00:14:03
Speaker
someone from outside the NDP, uh, it would have been a good opportunity for Gil to keep labor issues on the agenda. Um, I didn't see as much of that as I had hoped. And of course he ultimately dropped out because he couldn't, uh, raise enough funds.
00:14:22
Speaker
Um, so will he be more effective in doing that from the AFL presidency? you know that's up to members. um He's also, I will also add that he's been endorsed by ah United Food and Commercial Workers Local 401 President Tom Hesse.
00:14:45
Speaker
That's that's a big endorsement. Yeah, that's the largest private sector union in Alberta. Largest public sector union, as Jim noted, AUPE is not a member of the AFL.
00:15:00
Speaker
not an affiliate of the AFL, I should say. ah Heather Smith ah the of United Nurses of Alberta, who's been at the helm of that union for a very long time, going back to the Klein days, endorses him.
00:15:17
Speaker
Steve Bradshaw, the president of the Amalgamated Transit Union, Local 569, supports Gill. And Karen Kupres, the previous AFL secretary treasurer who last year was replaced by Cory Longo, um also endorses Gill.
00:15:41
Speaker
um Corrie is, i think, seen as a you know relatively close ally of Gill. She was also supposed to be up for re-election um convention against Colleen Nash, the treasurer for CUPE Local 3550, which represents support staff.
00:16:10
Speaker
at Edmonton Public Schools. But I was told today that Nash actually dropped out. So Corey is going to be acclaimed on Sunday, which I think is fair. I mean, she's been in that role for less than a year, and I think she deserves um to serve a full term.
00:16:29
Speaker
um you know And a major focus of ah this year's convention is the AFL's Common Front campaign, um which is an interesting interesting campaign. It's supposed to be an attempt to bring all of labor in the province together against UCP austerity.
00:16:56
Speaker
Some would say in a a federated way. But it also includes ah unions that aren't part of the AFL, like AUPE, like the Alberta Teachers Association, like Unifor,
00:17:13
Speaker
the
00:17:17
Speaker
for example. common front is Common Front is interesting. Common Front, on the one hand, you might say that Being able to be out there doing all of this common front campaigning is really good for Gil because he is able to raise his own profile using AFL resources at the same time that he's up for reelection.
00:17:40
Speaker
On the other hand, you might say, well, while he's busy with this common front stuff, so he can't do his own campaign. Kind of hard to suss out one way or
Timing and Strategy of AFL Actions
00:17:48
Speaker
the other. But I think one thing you could say about Common Front is that it it is ah ah a bit of a success.
00:17:54
Speaker
It is a ah successful tally mark for Gil's record, I think, that he is engineering a bit of a rapprochement between some unions that were not too keen on working together just a few years ago.
00:18:07
Speaker
We mentioned before AUPE, right? Like AUPE for a long time was not really cooperating with the AFL because they had that dispute with the CLC overrating.
00:18:20
Speaker
So bringing them back together is ah is a bit of a win for him. Yeah, and where from ah what I've heard, ah Corey was pretty instrumental in sort of facilitating that re-approachment between the AUPE and AFL.
00:18:39
Speaker
um And of course, you know, I think they have the AUPE, which is the biggest union in Alberta, um should be part of any um you know ah federation of labor because, again, all workers, I think, as many workers as possible in Alberta should be part of this, regardless of what one thinks of the direction the AFL has taken how it functions. like I think
00:19:14
Speaker
all workers should have a seat at the table. So i you know credit to the common front um in that way. i did attend in report on it for the progress report, um the ah campaign kickoff for not the common front, but their solidarity pact, which was actually what like unions signed on to.
00:19:40
Speaker
um Which is what what seems to have grown into Common Front, right? I think it's the other way around, actually. Because Common Front, like basically, Corey and Gil were touring across Alberta, all the cities, plus Hinton, for whatever reason. And that was under the Common Front banner. And then this press conference unveiled the Solidarity Bank.
00:20:02
Speaker
But it's all it's all part of the same strategy. And I and i asked Gil... Well, okay, i you know i understand what you're trying to do here. You're trying to um you know have some sort of unity within the labor union.
00:20:19
Speaker
but within the labor movement as it faces, ah you know, threats from the United States. And as Gil noted at the press conference, uh, employers and governments were are going to use that as an excuse to give workers a raw deal.
00:20:35
Speaker
But like, what do you see yourself doing in, uh, practice? And I thought the quote he gave me, uh, was interesting. it was very much, um
00:20:49
Speaker
um in the realm of you can't handle the truth. um He said that what we're dealing with is a high stakes game. True.
00:21:01
Speaker
And in any high stakes game, you don't reveal your cards. We're not in a position to share with you the details of our plans for cooperation, which led me to wonder why they had a news conference.
00:21:20
Speaker
Now, what is interesting is that news conference was at AUPE's headquarters, so very symbolic, right, in um that this is going outside of the AFL in in in bringing in organizations that aren't associated with it, I suspect in the hopes that this leads them to federate with the AFL, but I don't know that.
00:21:43
Speaker
um That's just my opinion based on the facts as I know them. um And, um you know, a cynic would look at the timing of Common Front strategy being unveiled in the Solidarity Pact and the tour that Gil and Corey went on and suggest that maybe they're using AFL resources to ah to ah you know boost their profiles in ah advance of their ah campaigns. Of course, Quarry isn't being challenged now, but that wasn't the case until um just the other day.
00:22:26
Speaker
um But as you noted, Jim, it could being busy with Common Front would also mean that Gil has less time for his actual campaigns. Yeah, it's hard to say.
00:22:39
Speaker
I mean, we can really only speculate as to what the strategic decision there was in Gill and presumably Corey and who else is in his kind of inner circle.
Proposed Changes to AFL Conventions
00:22:52
Speaker
I mean, we don't know. We don't know if their objective with Common Front was to campaign or not.
00:23:00
Speaker
And I think that's really all that we can say about it at the moment that it that it it it raises a bit of a whiff, you know, it's seems like it might it might be a little dodgy, but I mean, we can't say for sure.
00:23:14
Speaker
Yeah. And we're not saying that breaks any rules, certainly not break certainly doesn't break any laws. but No, no, of course not. If you work for a democratic organization and you've got an election period coming up and and you want to time a big project so that you have ah a good looking success story before it. I mean, that's, that's kind of kosher in most organizations.
00:23:38
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, and, and, and, and one last thing i want to note that, um, there is a, uh, resolution um that I think is going to be debated or will have been debated by the time you're hearing this, that makes the AFL constitutional convention and the leadership elections that come with it occur every three years, whereas it occurs every two years now.
00:24:06
Speaker
So that's also something ah to keep in mind. These... um ah you know, conventions, which I think are a way of delegates to sort of hold the leadership to account and have their say on its direction, might be becoming less frequent.
00:24:31
Speaker
And, you know, three years instead of two years doesn't sound like a lot, but if you look at it over the span of, say, 12 years, that's going from six conventions to four.
McGowan's Media Presence and Influence
00:24:44
Speaker
right? And the more time that passes, the more missed conventions there will have been. So again, um not alleging anything nefarious, but you know.
00:25:01
Speaker
It's just convenient. it's It's convenient. And it looks maybe a little unusually convenient, we might say. yeah But I mean, you know, Gil has ah been the head of the AFL for 20 years now.
00:25:17
Speaker
um And, ah you know, whether he wins, whether he loses, i mean, um you know, I think ah credit is due for, you know, raising the profile of the labor movement in Alberta. I mean, the man...
00:25:38
Speaker
He's a quote machine. He gives good quotes, I think. you know He's a former journalist. um And ah yeah, I mean, if he's reelected, of course, we'll be happy to work with him as a media outlet that is ah unapologetically pro-labor and as the leading you know advocate for ah organized labor at large in the province.
00:26:08
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, Gil, if you happen to be hearing this, we, we do really want you to come on the pod and talk to us whether or not you're, you're AFL president. Yeah. I mean, Gil, when, when our our your listeners demand it, they're constantly asking for, for the Glennium episode. They want it, Gil. They want to hear from you.
00:26:28
Speaker
No, but Gil, I mean, you came on in the forgotten corner. it was a good, it was a good, it was a good time. I enjoyed it. I thought it was a good conversation and, um and And yeah, I mean, again, if you're reelected on Sunday, um our door is always open for
Greg Mady's Vision for AFL
00:26:44
Speaker
you, Gil.
00:26:44
Speaker
Yes. I mean, we wanted to do back-to-back interviews. we We didn't want to do you dirty by just having Greg on. and Unfortunately, we do just have Greg on. But fortunately, the interview with Greg is very interesting.
00:26:56
Speaker
So... You know, if um if if ah if we'd like to wrap up the intro here, Jeremy, I can put the transition music on and pitch right to that.
00:27:08
Speaker
Let's do it. Hope you enjoy our interview with ah Greg Mady. How you were looking on May 17th, but all I just wanted to say was hey, my name is Greg.
00:27:38
Speaker
Greg, thanks for making yourself available. Great to have you on The Report. How are you doing today? oh I'm getting by yourself. Ah, I've been worse. We've got Jeremy with us as well. Hello. Nice to meet you, Greg.
00:27:52
Speaker
Now, a lot of our listeners have not met you either. Greg, a quick introduction. Greg has been with the Edmonton District of Labour Council for quite a long time.
00:28:03
Speaker
Greg, can you tell us a bit about the EDLC? What do you do there? Yeah, absolutely. So there are labour councils across the across the country. I actually represent all Prairie Labour Councils at the Canadian Labour Congress as well as part of my role here. But Some labor councils have full-time staff of which I am one here in Edmonton. There's also one in Calgary.
00:28:25
Speaker
But the goal of the organization is to advocate and lobby for workers' issues on the municipal level. And so since I've been here, we've been we've been doing that work and and elevating our game in that regard, but also...
00:28:40
Speaker
you know, kind of including broader community in the work that we do as well, because we know working people in Edmonton aren't always in unions and those unions aren't always affiliated to the EDLC. And so we've been doing a lot of work to try to reach out. But that's the very high level explanation as to what the Labour Council is and the work that it's supposed to be doing.
00:28:57
Speaker
I've always enjoyed EDLC's presence here in the city that they're a bit more... What's the word I'm looking for here? Maybe not radical, but but militant than a lot of the labor mainstream gets to be.
00:29:15
Speaker
I suppose to be fair to labor leadership, they sometimes have to be since they're the ones who actually get locked up if they put their names on things. But do you enjoy getting to be a bit more of a rascal with EDLC?
00:29:28
Speaker
Yeah, well, you know what? The thing I enjoy the most about being at the EDLC is that we're the rank and file of the labor movement. We are made up of delegates, people who are actually out doing the work day in, day out in their in their communities and their work sites.
00:29:42
Speaker
Those are the people who I work with. Those are the people who sit on my executive. And those are the people who tell me what to do or at least authorize the work that I do. And so I think it's maybe that's the direct result or that's what you're seeing is that I'm hearing from workers about the issues that they're facing. And that's the work that the EDLC works on um at the high at the other levels with the with the Alberta Federation of Labor and the Canadian Labor Congress.
00:30:06
Speaker
These are elected provincial and national leaders who who aren't on the work floor anymore. And so I do think that does have an effect on the work that gets done by the organizations themselves.
00:30:18
Speaker
I suppose that brings us to the topic of the day because you are running for leadership of the AFL this year. Is that correct? That is correct. This is my my second stab at it. I ran two years ago at the convention in Calgary and at the the adjournment of that convention, I let it be known that I would stand again the next time. And fast forward two years, here we are.
00:30:39
Speaker
AFL has had consistent leadership for quite a long time. Gil has been gilm McGowan has been at the the head of that organization for years. You it's time for a change?
00:30:51
Speaker
Why why what change? Oh boy. Well, I mean, I'll just start by saying that I've been active in the labor movement here in Alberta for 17 years as a union member. As an activist, I've been i've been active much longer.
00:31:04
Speaker
But you know ever since I started going to AFL conventions, I've seen the same thing over and over and over again. And quite frankly, it's it's i mean I think there was a time for it. I think it served the labor movement well.
00:31:17
Speaker
But over the past 20 years, the the need for us to adapt to the changing environment around us has been made quite quite clear. The vast majority of affiliates approached me asking me to to take on this mantle. as As we discussed earlier, I should i guess be quoting what we already talked about outside of this, but Susan Cake ran prior, and it was agreed that somebody needs to to keep the pressure on. and and so I looked at the work that i've been doing at the EDLC and said,
00:31:44
Speaker
This is really what I think we're missing in Alberta. We're missing a representative labor movement, a labor movement that workers, whether they're unionized in the public sector or private sector or not at all, can see themselves reflected in.
00:31:56
Speaker
And that's ah the work that I've done at the EDLC by engaging with those voices and working on the issues that I hear. And quite frankly, that's what we're missing. um we We have been missing it for quite some time at the provincial level.
00:32:09
Speaker
And we really do need to to get out there and be present and be fighting for the issues that matter to working people, period. Not telling them what they need to care about, but actually using their input and their desires and working on those issues.
00:32:21
Speaker
What does that actually look like, including non-unionized people in the labor movement? I mean, you they wouldn't have the protections of a union. They wouldn't be able to participate in the democratic processes of a union. So what would they actually get out of that association?
00:32:39
Speaker
Yeah, so I mean, there's obviously, i mean, maybe perhaps not obviously, but, you know, everything gets passed by the executive board, like I said, or at least it should. That's how I run things democratically is that i I love democracy, I use it as a short, a sword and a shield.
00:32:56
Speaker
And I always, I always engage with the stakeholders on the issues before we actually roll out or do anything. In regards to this, it would be more of the fact that I'd be reporting back to to executive council and saying, look, this is what we're hearing in the communities. These are the issues that Alberta workers actually want to see us pushing on.
00:33:14
Speaker
Let's work on those. um And you know what? That doesn't mean we give up on all the other stuff that we're doing. It means that like we'll still have to represent our affiliates as they need and as they request over the course of time, but also having that underlying work of engaging with community and community organizing.
00:33:30
Speaker
Now, i I was asked this question recently at an affiliate. They're like, well, give me an example. and And I can only speak to examples here at Edmonton, but the whole idea about this is that We don't I can't tell you what people in Tabor want us to advocate on.
00:33:45
Speaker
I don't know. I'm not there yet. We're not talking to them. That's the whole point is that if you're not actually talking to workers across the province, how do you claim to represent them? And so it's really just turning the organization on its head and and focusing on that input, getting the information from working people and then reflecting it. And so we we haven't been doing that.
00:34:05
Speaker
and But like you said, what that means, protections, I mean, no, where i'm not I'm not at all talking about organizing workplaces. That is not the role of the AFL. The role of the AFL is to have Albertans look at labor and say, oh, they're fighting for me.
00:34:21
Speaker
They're fighting for us. Unions are doing important work. And it's not just for people in the public sector. It's not just for those unionized workers. It's for all of us. And then when people start to see that, that's when they can start to talk about, OK, maybe i need change in my workplace, in which case, you know, our affiliates can take it from there. But we are not going to build a provincewide movement if we're ignoring the vast majority of the people in Alberta.
00:34:49
Speaker
Now, I wanted to ask you, Greg, because as you noted, you ran two years ago for the AFL presidency, um and you...
Mady's Strategy and Critique of AFL
00:34:59
Speaker
ah right away after your very narrow defeat declared your intention to run in the next election, which is happening this month, at the end of this month.
00:35:11
Speaker
um Now, the what are you doing differently this time? Because, again, the the the race was very close, right? 50 votes, I believe, um separated you from Gil McGowan um in ah what approach are you taking this time around that is different?
00:35:35
Speaker
Well, I'll tell you, the main thing that I noticed when I was out, I mean, I've been driving across this province. I did two years ago, trying to get meetings wherever I can. ah You know, the thing is with the labor movement is that, you know, you don't even, i don't get even emails about from our affiliates. I was able to accumulate all that.
00:35:54
Speaker
But as a candidate, I don't get given any resources whatsoever, even those who are able to vote. And so it takes a long time to build those relationships. and i And I was able to build them through my seat representing the EDLC over the years, but I also needed to get out there and talk to them. So last time when I was going out, it was very much, hi, I'm Greg Mady.
00:36:14
Speaker
I'm a postal worker. I'm president of the EDLC. Here's my life story. um And then really talking about the vision of building worker power, which was my previous campaign and what that looks like.
00:36:25
Speaker
But in the time then and and engaging with members, uh in the past over the past two years and continuing to build on those relationships that i started two years ago um the conversation has changed quite drastically um obviously we can look around and see that the world has changed and i think that's definitely a part of it and so you know worker power is still a ah very strong crux of the work that i do and it always has been but realistically in realizing the need to do community organizing That's been the thrust. That's what I've been actually talking about the most. And community organizing, like I said, means that we need to actually reflect working people so they see themselves in this movement.
00:37:04
Speaker
and And that's fundamentally the difference in what I'm talking about now. Instead of just investing in workers, saying that we're reflecting their needs. um And and that's that's been the big difference. But honestly, you'd like to think that there's a lot more to it.
00:37:19
Speaker
It's all about relationships. You know, i people who can show up and vote, affiliates who have strength, affiliates who whip their members into voting a certain way. This is the game that gets played at this level.
00:37:30
Speaker
and And I've always taken it from the ground to say, hey, look, I want to represent your members. I'm listening to your members. And that's what I fundamentally care about. Not everybody agrees with that approach. And so there are some of them who who disagree with me no matter what I say.
00:37:44
Speaker
But this has really been the difference this time around is really just to show tangibly how this approach has benefited the the EDLC and workers in the Edmonton area and how we can continue to grow on that and apply it provincially. so I know it's kind of roundabout answer to your question, but it is a it is a broader discussion on on on the changing society that we're in and also what working people want their unions to look like these days.
00:38:11
Speaker
It's not the same as it used to be. I mean, I remember when I first my first union protest was with the United Auto Workers in Ontario. um and they were fighting over globalization and the offshoring of good Canadian jobs. but Funny, here we are.
00:38:24
Speaker
But the the whole thing was that these workers were in a union where their president told them what to do, and they said, yes, sir. And they went out, and they voted, and they did what their president told them to do.
00:38:36
Speaker
This is not the labor movement of the 2020s. you know that Right now, it's the other way around, and I believe it always should be. the The members tell their presidents and representatives what to do, and we need to listen.
00:38:50
Speaker
Greg, I don't think a lot of our listeners have a lot of access to the the internal labor politics discourse. Like this is this is all new material for most people who are listening to this episode.
00:39:04
Speaker
And so, you know, any context or history is going to be great for them. One thing that I would like to know is, can you tell us about some missteps or mistakes that the previous, or I suppose the current AFL administration has made that have led you to thinking that that there needs to be a change?
00:39:28
Speaker
I mean, i am i am not going to go into the laundry list of complaints that I've heard from affiliates over the over the seven years while I've been there. um you know I don't think you know tearing down our organization is is is a positive thing to do or will will help.
00:39:46
Speaker
But I will comment on it insofar as it it's really been the difference between a concerted plan and vision that you are acting deliberately and purposefully in order to achieve, and jumping from issue to issue.
00:40:03
Speaker
When you're building and when you're going through community organizing, it is. It is relationship building. It is consistent engagement. it is a There's a lot of documented ways that this can be done. I've been joking around when I've talking to people is that I realized that I learned all these skills over 30 years of activism.
00:40:17
Speaker
I didn't realize that there were books explaining it strictly, um which I've now just discovered over the past five years or so. But... This is the idea. And I say this because when you say if there's been missteps, this is the one that I think is the most public.
00:40:32
Speaker
So I feel comfortable talking about it. But what what I have seen is that the labor movement will fundraise millions of dollars, launch this huge digital campaign, get a whole bunch of emails, ask workers to do a certain thing and then disappear.
00:40:48
Speaker
And then you don't hear from them for years. And then two years go by and they're like coming back and they're saying, this is how you should vote. And then they disappear. And I've heard time and time again from workers is that when you only come around asking for something and then you disappear, the they know where to hold you. They know how to treat you. They don't care at all. You're not there for them. You're there for yourself.
00:41:09
Speaker
and And this is the big difference is that if you are engaging in a meaningful way, it is deliberate and ongoing. It's not a light switch. Workers are not a movement you can turn on and off when you need them.
00:41:20
Speaker
You need to be working with them all the time and showing them results for their time and efforts in order for them to stick around and be loyal. and And we've lost them. I believe we have. And so it's time to bring them back on board and it's time to show them that their voices are needed in our movement.
00:41:37
Speaker
How does the AFL stack up in these terms compared to other provincial labor federations? How are we doing? um You know, I've had the pleasure of of talking to a lot of other Federation presidents over the past few years.
00:41:51
Speaker
Like I said, I do sit at the Canadian Labour Congress where I've met a few of them, but also, you know, you start to build networking connections throughout the movement over the years. So, um I mean, the the difference across the country is is significant.
00:42:04
Speaker
um One thing I've noticed is that, you know, they they just, over the past four years, got new leadership in BC and Ontario. Yeah. You know, they were they were seeing the need for a new vision and then they invested in it.
00:42:18
Speaker
Obviously, here it's been in more of an uphill battle. But the reason why i bring up those two provinces is that I believe the labor movement in Alberta has a bit of a complex. We want to be one of the big kids.
00:42:30
Speaker
um I don't think that's just the labor movement. I think that's that's across our political spectrum here. ah You know, we think we're on par with those two provinces. um Now, we make up for it for money. The Alberta Federation of Labour has the highest per capita payments out of all of the other ah federations of labour in this country.
00:42:50
Speaker
Quebec withstanding, I don't know their books because it's a whole other nation and we don't really have time to get into that. But, you know, and that's the reason. I mean, we have a lack of union density. Workers aren't engaged in this province like they are in those others. So we have to make up for it with those big ad campaigns and and additional funds.
00:43:08
Speaker
or at least that's been the prevailing thought. ah But, you know, I mean, i I don't want to speak for those other ah labor Federation of Labour presidents because I know that their job, much like mine, is to work with whoever you get sent.
00:43:22
Speaker
they They have their personal opinions on this, and I encourage anybody who cares to to reach out to them. they have you Everybody's emails are listed on their websites. You can check out all the federations of labor and reach out if you're interested in finding out what they think needs to get done and and why.
00:43:38
Speaker
They may share with you. They may say that... Alberta's got to do Alberta, right? We are a special place and and and we deserve to to represent ourselves. But that's of there has been change across this province.
00:43:53
Speaker
I think that what I'm seeing and hearing from workers in Alberta is is resonating everywhere.
Future of Labor Engagement
00:43:59
Speaker
This is why I always take exception when people say, well, Alberta's special. you know we're we're reallyre not Working people here are no different than working people across this province.
00:44:06
Speaker
Sorry, across this country. And I think it reflects in the other federations of labor really changing the work that they do, because like I said earlier, the old way just doesn't cut it anymore. ah One thing I wanted to ask you about, Greg, is this ah common front strategy that the AFL leadership recently unveiled, um which, ah you know, is bringing together.
00:44:29
Speaker
a more than two dozen unions, including those that are already affiliates of the AFL and those that aren't most notably AUPE, which, uh, hasn't been affiliated with the AFL for almost 20 years. Um, and also, you know, Unifor, which is Canada's biggest, uh, private sector union.
00:44:51
Speaker
Um, I know that the upcoming convention where the election is taking place is going to be, ah sort of centered around this common front agenda. And i wanted to ask you ah what you make of this approach that was, you know, spearheaded by Gil McGowan, as well as ah Secretary Treasurer Corey Longo, and um what you like about it and what, ah how you might approach it differently if you were president.
00:45:22
Speaker
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I mean, I'll say at the AFL Council where this was first being discussed, ah I spoke in favor and voted in favor of it. um I will say that these these actions are things that I've specifically campaigned on, both in my previous campaign and this campaign.
00:45:39
Speaker
um Now, i'll do it ah I would have done it a little bit differently, and maybe I'll talk about that. But either way, I looked at it as a situation where um I would have really appreciated it if the AFL took this initiative coming out of the last convention and actually has been engaging with workers meaningfully this whole time instead of a couple of months leading up to convention. But that aside, this work needs to get done and it needs to start somewhere. And it might not be how I would do it, but at least it is happening now.
00:46:07
Speaker
It hasn't happened for such a so such a long time that people don't even know how it's possible or how it would look. And so the way I look at it personally, at least from the from the position of an activist and organizer, is that regardless of whether or not I'm successful,
00:46:22
Speaker
The trajectory of our labor movement has changed, which to me is important. Now, could it be done better? Absolutely. I mean, I had the pleasure of attending two of those events. And I got to say, it's great to see the people who I see all the time more.
00:46:38
Speaker
But the purpose of these events should be all like need to be talking to new people. um We're not going to get anywhere if we keep talking to the same leaders who already know all the issues.
00:46:50
Speaker
who and to ask them to go out and get more support. Like it's not it's not how you build a movement. It's not how you do community organizing. um It's also, you know, town halls are just not, they just don't cut it. I've been to UCP town halls.
00:47:04
Speaker
I've been to our labor town hall system where you just say, I'm gonna be here at this time in this place and come on out. Nobody cares. People have lives, people have work, people have families. And this is not how we reach out to people.
00:47:16
Speaker
And as much as I hate the, you know, organizer saying meet people where they're at, I can tell you where they're not. And that's where we're deciding to go. So, I mean, the fact that we haven't been engaging with our affiliates or even union leaders to this level until now, that's a problem.
00:47:35
Speaker
The union leaders should all know what's going on. They should all be kept up to date and they should have never not been. What we really do is doing is working on getting out reaching out to people, reaching out to workers, reaching out to community activists or just general communities.
00:47:49
Speaker
That's where this work needs to be brought. Now, the common front was veiled as this idea of, oh, we're all in bargaining at the same time, which is which is true. um It just it just lined up that way. um i don't think anybody is going to tell you that it was.
00:48:03
Speaker
I mean, my opponent himself doesn't say that they lined it up. It just happened to be the way it was. But now we've been seeing, you know, over the course of this, like we needed this common front two years ago, getting ready for the issues with the education workers who we just saw on strike on mass in this province, getting ready for the nurses who um defeated their first agreement and then you know subsequently voted in another one.
00:48:25
Speaker
That's when this work needed to get done. I mean, I can speak to you as a postal worker. I sat there on the lines for over a month until we were you know sent back to work and you know postal workers might be out again on May 1st.
00:48:38
Speaker
But you know where was the support for postal workers then when legislation came in to defy our rights? Where was the support for Teamsters Rail when legislation came in to defy their rights? They were sent back within 24 hours.
00:48:51
Speaker
This common front work should have never stopped and it should be ongoing and be the sole purpose of our Federation of Labour until workers start to get what they're what they're due. And I think I mean, fundamentally, that's the difference that I i see.
00:49:05
Speaker
But I'm, you know, strong enough to admit the work has to start somewhere. And I'm glad that something's starting to happen now, which is why I was in favour of them starting. ah But this is this should never have stopped.
00:49:18
Speaker
This should be the active and ongoing work of of any labor organization, especially one that advocates publicly like this.
00:49:29
Speaker
So, yeah, it's a sort of a better late than never type of thing. Yeah, and better something than nothing. that what But so what I you know, I was at the ah launch of of the the strategic pact that is a central part of the Common Front agenda.
00:49:50
Speaker
And, you know, I was I was intrigued by it, but I couldn't help but wonder what exactly. it means in practice. and And I asked Gil about that and he was quite tight lipped saying that, well, you know, these are high stakes negotiations and we we can't unveil our strategy.
00:50:12
Speaker
Do you have any insight into what it might look like or what it should look like in your view? I mean, I believe the pact has been released publicly now. um I do know that there were many rewrites to it to get people to support it.
00:50:28
Speaker
um and i do know that many people looked at it and said well what's the point right now like it it got watered down to such a degree that it is a very symbolic gesture and don't get me wrong folks like i know There's value in symbolism. I know there's value in the big propaganda piece.
00:50:44
Speaker
There's value there. There's value in us having our big rallies that take place during conventions just so people can get out and see each other. ah But to say that that reflects the strength of the provincial labor movement is a little bit disingenuous.
00:50:59
Speaker
my opinion and So, um you know, like I stood there at the CPW picket line, watched people cross. I stood there with the education workers and watched the teachers cross.
00:51:10
Speaker
I mean, what are we signing? We're saying that workers are supporting workers. Great. um That's wonderful. I'm glad we can all agree on that. But this just speaks to the fact that there's lot of work that needs to be done.
00:51:25
Speaker
Like I said, community organizing doesn't happen when you just flip a switch and all of a sudden everybody's activated. This is work that needs to be happening ongoing. And so, like I said, the fact that we're getting started, great.
00:51:36
Speaker
But I don't think it's fair to look at this and say, well, you know, the workers are united on a level that we've never seen and that it's unprecedented. I mean, that's just simply not true in my lifetime. um And so i'm just I've always been a very honest person. you know I'm not a big fan of the Wizard of Oz Smoke and Mirrors show.
00:51:54
Speaker
But you know we do need to do work. There is value to that. but only one is paired with actual on the ground work. and And I know, ah you know, members, there are going to be unions who cross picket lines in the coming months, if there are picket lines.
00:52:10
Speaker
That's a problem. This is a conversation we should be having and what we should really be focusing on, but we we can't get there yet. um But if you're not talking about it, then you're getting nowhere.
00:52:22
Speaker
Greg, thanks for your time today. I really appreciate you giving our folks a lay of the land on the internal situation Over there, labor politics can get a little arcane if you're not deep in it yourself.
00:52:34
Speaker
So we really appreciate the overview. Hope we can have you back on soon to discuss the future of the movement. Yeah, I mean, i'm I'm always up for talking about labor and politics, and this is where we find ourselves. I do appreciate the opportunity.
00:52:50
Speaker
I've been joking around over the past five years. I'm a labor movement therapist because often, and I know myself as a young activist, I'm like, well, it's a good thing that the labor movement's there. um And, you know, working and getting involved and working. really trying to be a part of it. But we're we're an organization like any other. We're a form of government. We're a democratic.
00:53:10
Speaker
um And I do, you know, maybe democratic to a fault to a certain degree. But yeah, it's unless we're having these conversations and unless we're talking about building a movement that we can all see ourselves in, I don't think we're going to get there. And that's fundamentally the issue for me. And like I said, why I'm running is that we need to be having these conversations on a meaningful level and we need to be acting in a meaningful way.
00:53:33
Speaker
Otherwise, workers en masse, they are not even going to be signing any digital petition with their email. They're not going to be showing up. They're not going to be calling anybody. Like, none of the actions happen unless people see value in spending their time there.
00:53:46
Speaker
And that's what I hope to bring, and that's the the changes that I think we need to see in our and our labor movement. And hopefully, we get to see more and more civil society coming together and then talking about these issues. Because realistically, every form of government needs to respond to workers or they will not exist fundamentally, full stop. And they think they're doing it.
00:54:08
Speaker
The labor movement thought they're doing it. But I do see a situation now where workers are aching for somebody to be engaging them in any meaningful way. And it's our fault. We lost that to begin with. But we are the only ones who can come and speak to it honestly and stand shoulder to shoulder with them and say, your fight is our fight.
00:54:27
Speaker
What can we do to help? Well, then we'll let you get back to the work. Good luck on the convention floor, Greg.