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Michael Janz on Edmonton's 2025 elections
614 Plays1 month ago
Jim and Jeremy interview Michael Janz, councillor for Edmonton's Ward Papastew, about his election campaign, the value of fighting to change public opinion, whether political parties at the muni level are good, and more.
Support the Progress Report at theprogressreport.ca/patrons.
For more from the Janz campaign, see the councillor's site at michaeljanz.ca.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Shoutout
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, everyone. Jim here. Before we hop into today's episode, I want to give a shout out to our friends at the Harbinger Media Network. Harbinger is a network of some of the best radical left pod content across the country.
00:00:14
Speaker
And an episode that I am really keen to dive into this week is the latest from Paris Marks and Tech Won't Save You, where Paris is interviewing Natasha Tiku about how AI chatbots seem to be driving a lot of people insane.
00:00:29
Speaker
Harbinger also operates a news roundup site called Unrigged. So check that one out. It's at unrigged.ca. It would make a great homepage for your browser. It's like ah Google News, but the news is good.
00:00:42
Speaker
And if you want to see the whole Harbinger lineup of pods, it's at harbingermedianetwork.com.
Welcome and Co-host Introduction
00:01:01
Speaker
Friends and enemies, welcome to another episode of the Progress Report podcast. It is June 23rd and we are recording from Amiskwchi, Oskagan in Treaty 6 territory, otherwise known as Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
00:01:16
Speaker
I'm one of your co-hosts, Jim Story, and we've got, of course, our other co-host, Jeremy Appel. Jeremy, how are you doing today? Good. i Can't complain. Got just working on an upcoming story that is follow up to a story I did quite some time ago. um thinking it was probably back in late 2024. Yeah.
00:01:40
Speaker
Um, you know, if people are interested in, uh, the way, uh, shoppers drug mart has been encroaching on, uh, the, uh, public health system, uh, and getting embedded into AHS, there's a bit more where that came from.
00:01:57
Speaker
I'm, invest I'm certainly interested in, uh, in seeing what you dug up this time. Yeah, we'll see. But, uh, yeah, I mean, we're recording on Monday now, so, uh, you Maybe it'll be out by the time this
Financial Recovery and Community Support
00:02:10
Speaker
is out. Maybe it won't.
00:02:12
Speaker
If it's not, you know. I guess it depends ah which one of us is drinking the most coffee over the next couple of days. Well, folks, I do have some some happy news to report.
00:02:23
Speaker
Last week, you may have seen from us either online or heard us in the pod or read in the newsletter. that we were in a bit of a finance crunch.
00:02:36
Speaker
we We were. um Things looked pretty bad. We weren't sure if we were going to be able to keep things going past the end of the month. Jeremy and I didn't get paid last last week, we're clearing clearing that up this week.
00:02:50
Speaker
But it turns out that we really underestimated how much support was out there for us. As soon as we said that we needed a little help, it just seems like everyone showed up.
00:03:03
Speaker
The support that people have been offering is so generous, not just from individuals, but also from lot of our friends in the movement. You know, our friends in Medicare offered to help us out, Public Interest Alberta.
00:03:16
Speaker
sent out a little appeal on our behalf this morning. And everyone coming together, you you did it. You pulled us out of the hole. The work will continue. I am very, very happy to report that.
Guest Introduction: Michael Jantz
00:03:28
Speaker
We did. it Well, our guest today is someone that I've got a bit of a long history with myself. When he was coming up through student politics at my alma mater, I was coming up with through student journalism.
00:03:40
Speaker
we've had a bit of a synergistic relationship over the years. I'm very happy to invite today's guest, the present counselor for Ward Papasteo, Michael Jantz. Michael, how are you?
00:03:51
Speaker
Awesome. It's actually coming up on our 20-year friend-aversary, Jim, since you covered me, I think, in 2005, 2006. Yeah, that was ah an interesting story back then.
00:04:04
Speaker
Kind of your your first opportunity to shake a fist at a big corporation. It was the Aramark people who were squeezing the students at the University of Alberta pretty hard for their meal plans.
00:04:18
Speaker
Yeah. And thankfully, we organized students, we had a petition, and we were able to push back and demand a fair deal for students. And we were thankful that the Gateway was there to cover it. And it actually got citywide media attention. um I think it was quite novel for them to come and cover a ah food fight, so to speak.
Edmonton City Council Dynamics
00:04:36
Speaker
heard Well, the Gateway continues to put out great work. Their coverage of the ah The crackdown on the pro-Palestine encampments I thought was very good a few months ago.
00:04:49
Speaker
Yeah, I know. it was It was quite courageous. Well, shout out to the kids. Doing great work. Keep it up. Well, Michael, you've got a lot of work ahead of you because we are, what, 120 days? Is it 120 or 119 away from the next municipal election here in Edmonton?
00:05:06
Speaker
Yeah, around that. I think the best place for us to start would be if you could describe to us what your perception is of where the camps line up on the current city council.
00:05:19
Speaker
There was some good research a little while back. I think this was a ah Matthew Black. Matthew Black, maybe I'm attributing this incorrectly. I'm gonna have to go and put this one in the show notes, but someone did a bit of analysis on who the voting blocks were on council.
00:05:37
Speaker
But I'd like to hear from from you, you know what are the camps on council right now? You know, it's interesting. um mic when When you asked me that question, the first thing I think of is ah don't judge us by our words, judge us by our budget. And by and large, when you look at the budget passed by city council, um that's where I think you see the most alignment. You see councillors who um a vast majority, I think nine or 10, wanted to spend more money on public transit, more money on housing, more money on affordable housing, more money on ah
00:06:08
Speaker
ah public services, on extending library hours, on extending pool times, on just sort of those bread and butter issues that matter to Edmontonians. And then you had a couple who seemed to be curbudgins who were opposed to any of those those good things that make a city worth living in.
00:06:23
Speaker
ah But by and large, I'd say when it comes down to the fundamentals, when you look at the four-year budget, when you look at where we're building, you do see a lot of alignment. I think generally on, say, housing issues, for the most part, you see a lot of councillors committed to um building more houses in more places where people want to live, especially close to transit. and I would say you'll have these sort of nuanced disagreements and sometimes the fine print around different issues. But by and large, I think you see...
00:06:50
Speaker
um You see a council that has been committed to spending more ah more funding and on on ah those those core city issues like parks and snow removal and roadways and things like that. and that's been
Policing and Community Safety Reform
00:07:04
Speaker
That's been quite exciting. and I think as Edmonton's been growing and as we have a lot of our people here,
00:07:09
Speaker
ah This is you know one of the most important things we can do for um ah eliminating poverty, for racial justice, for social justice. If we're not investing in public transit, if we're not investing in affordable housing, if we're not investing in building a more affordable edmonton, everything else gets worse down the line.
00:07:27
Speaker
That's an interesting look at it from the inside, because from the outside, i you know I perceive there to be ah basically two camps, and maybe one of one of them has like a sub camp to it, which which would be that there are the the quote unquote progressive councillors, and then there are the quote unquote conservative councillors.
00:07:51
Speaker
The conservatives being Tim, Sarah, and then the the couple of Yahoos over to their right, who are kind of a little sub faction there.
00:08:02
Speaker
And then over on the other side of things, you seem to be mostly within the progressive power block, except with a bit of a cleavage when it comes to policing issues. That seems to be the one where you stick your neck out a little more than anyone else.
00:08:16
Speaker
i I don't know that that's entirely true. like um I think council generally has had the same concerns that I have around policing. We've seen an intransigent provincial government that's been more concerned about police ah politics than policing, such as when they've been appointing police commissioners ah ah provincial police commissioners, when they've been defunding the police by reducing funding through photo radar revenue or or other measures like that. We've seen unprecedented policing interference from the but provincial government and I think you've heard pushback from a number councillors. After all, it was Councillor Karen Tang who motioned that we should have an audit of police services. So I think generally people have shared many of the same concerns that I have.
00:08:56
Speaker
I think um we've had some tensions over whether there should be a guaranteed funding formula or not. um But generally, I think um a lot of ah lot of Edmontonians and and City Council have been concerned about these issues.
00:09:09
Speaker
perhaps the cleavage is more just in terms of behavior than if you guys are all voting the same way. Because I certainly don't see you know Tang or Salvador Rutherford getting into it in social media fights with the the police chief or the police union president.
00:09:27
Speaker
Well, I think it's they weren't targeted by them. I mean, we heard, I think it was actually your former colleague who reported the story about, um you know, the the tensions that former Chief McPhee or his his, he was frustrated that I had done hadn't recognized him and shaken his hand and i I was targeted by the former police union president, Mike Elliott, with 23 code conduct complaints in my first year.
00:09:53
Speaker
um They seemed particularly interested in trying to silence me off the hop. But I think I have a... it's interesting i have a ah good relationship with the current police union president uh curtis huple i have uh i was on the police podcast uh the recently i i generally have i would i would say a good working relationship with uh the rank and file and and and actually the the uh um both the commission and also some of the leaders in the service i think there's still open criticisms that i have of the of the institution and the justice system and everything else but um i think um
00:10:28
Speaker
You have different personalities there now that are much more concerned about safety than playing politics. The fact that John McDougall is no longer
Homelessness and Provincial Policy Impact
00:10:36
Speaker
chair of the police commission, that Ben Henderson is there. You've seen a marked improvement in the tone, the transparency, the engagement um between Chair Ben Henderson and Vice Chair Shazia Amiri.
00:10:46
Speaker
They've been fantastic. they The last time the police were at council, it was one of the most productive conversations we have. and In fact, I would actually say that it was almost a ah different tag team. It was me and the police chief going after the minister um over the photo radar and the lack of action on traffic safety issues. I think many Edmontonians underestimate that the most dangerous part of our city is actually our roadways and um the serious motor vehicle accidents, the serious speeding, street racing, fatalities, dangerous driving. These are major killers and the police have been um
00:11:18
Speaker
ah urging the government to take action. They've been urging different tools. um One area of of ah agreement Chief McPhee and I had was that if somebody's speeding 30 over the limit or 50 over the limit, that their vehicle should be compounded and, or sorry, impounded and and confiscated. And ah whether we're talking about that, the dangerous driving with motorcycles, with street racing, with everything else,
00:11:40
Speaker
There's actually a lot of group common ground that the the police and I have that. And um when I speak with rank and file members, they're just as frustrated with the justice system. They're just as frustrated with um ah the lack of supports available, the lack of shelters, day shelters, 24-7 shelter spaces.
00:11:55
Speaker
they don't you know I was talking to one person. ah beacock who said, you know, I got into this to catch bank robbers. I didn't get into this to be, you know, a glorified taxi service for for um helping helping people who are unhoused getting from one place to another.
00:12:08
Speaker
We should have other supports. And that's one of the things I've been pushing for investment in. We've had historic investment in 24-7 crisis diversion. We've had more investments in public health supports in other other steps that we can have to actually unburden the police to actually make sure that officers are there for when people truly need them for the things that only the police can do.
00:12:28
Speaker
And many of these other um many of these other social supports and this other work can be done um often um ah more affordably or maybe better by social agencies, frontline agencies, et cetera. And that that's, I think, really, really important to consider.
00:12:44
Speaker
Dealing with the perceptions around policing is probably going to be a big challenge for your campaign. I think the province has been going very hard on a law and order message for at least a couple of years now. and there are a lot of voices supporting them in the media, both corporate and even kind of freelance mercenaries like the Yank Wave people over on Instagram, constantly portraying this city as it's some kind of war zone or hellscape.
00:13:14
Speaker
And yet the Edmonton Police Commission statistics do not support that at all. That that that ah perception does not seem accurate. and I know we we read in the news from time to time these stories that are very dramatic around, you know,
00:13:31
Speaker
swarming attacks and and things like this word or more incidents of violence around transit centers. But when you look at the numbers, you know the the EPC reports that ah crime in the city is down 25% 2019, that over decade.
00:13:48
Speaker
twenty twenty four had the lowest crime rates for edmonton on record in over a decade
00:13:56
Speaker
Yeah, and that's true. that's ah um Those statistics are true. But ah the reality is we all have, ah you know, we have the right to both be safe, but also feel safe. And I think that there's been a number of ah concerning incidents that have happened over the the last few years that are are still sticking sticking with people.
00:14:14
Speaker
And I think that... um What we need is a multifaceted approach towards community safety. So for example, the work that we've done on the problem properties initiative, in other words, holding bad landlords accountable, forcing them to either board up or tear down old properties that were catching fire and putting people at risk.
00:14:30
Speaker
That's a serious issue. And we've actually had a huge impact on public safety by reducing the number of structure fires in our city. You may remember, you know, four years ago, there were a lot of fires up in the Elbert Avenue area.
00:14:43
Speaker
We've addressed that. That's huge. um ah Fire is terrifying and a a it can quickly spread. And I don't need to tell you how how important it is that we get ah we get a grip on this. And we have.
00:14:55
Speaker
ah We've also done little things like, ah and I say there are little things, but there are little bylaw changes such as um banning pepper spray sales or knife sales in convenience stores, sort of minimizing the opportunity for for violence of opportunity. There's things like that, that we can do as a city. But ultimately, until we fix some of these big structural poverty issues in the province of Alberta, such as the youth in care who are aging out of care prematurely because the government has cut their funding and cut their support and their obligations, until we fix that the fact that we don't have meaningful addiction, mental health and and poverty supports, until we fix until we fix having actually homes for people to go and places for people to be in a 24-7 space,
00:15:34
Speaker
space um that's We're going to see some of these same concerns just like every other city in North America. When I got elected in 2021, there were 15 – actually, going back, I think it was in 2019 when the UCP were elected, there was 1,500 unhoused people in Edmonton.
00:15:51
Speaker
Now, according to estimates, there's closer to 5,000. So why is that? It's ah it's a combination of a province that has abdicated responsibility over people. It's a combination of a province that has allowed other municipalities, such as Leduc, to um send unhoused people, send people needing social supports into the city of Edmonton.
00:16:10
Speaker
It's a combination of all of these other structural um harms that have been done to to to families um through social neglect ah that are now that are now being realized and showing up on our streets.
00:16:23
Speaker
It's very hard to have a functional city in a dysfunctional province. and I've been adamant that until we get changes here, this is going to be challenges for Edmonton, for Grand Prairie, for Red Deer, for
Policy Focus: Transportation and Housing
00:16:34
Speaker
Calgary.
00:16:34
Speaker
If you talk to other municipal officials, they'll say the same thing that I'm saying. this is ah This is a a provincial issue that is that is playing out on the streets in Alberta.
00:16:47
Speaker
um Yeah, I ah wanted to ask you, Michael, because when you were first elected you know four years ago, ah you sort of came out swinging. i think you were advocating a lot of like big, bold policy changes. I'm thinking of like the mansions tax. ah You were also, ah you know as Jim noted, a lot more combative with ah you know the EPS top brass.
00:17:16
Speaker
um you know you You got a code of conduct ah complaint upheld for retweeting a tweet that drops his pigs, which I think is funny, commenting on ah the code of conduct itself in your violation of it. um But I think ah over the past couple years, it seems that you've kind of toned it down a bit and a bit more yeah a bit more why and ah you know trying to sort of work within like existing structures.
00:17:54
Speaker
um I was wondering if um that perception ah resonates with you and ah if it does, ah why the sort of change in tone?
00:18:08
Speaker
I think um you know when I was first elected, like anybody in a new job, you're sort of a um you sort of have a new team you have a new you've got new colleagues, there's different things that you you you may want to try out or get answers to, um whether you're looking at taxation questions or whether you're looking at executive compensation or anything else. so i certainly I certainly asked a few big questions in my first couple of years. i don't deny that.
00:18:33
Speaker
But I think as I started studying the files and as I got closer to this and you know after the provincial election, the reelection of the UCP, when I looked at where could I have the maximal impact for you know working class people and families and and those core social justice issues that i that I'm so passionate about, ah it very quickly became clear to me that we need a lot more housing choices and we need a lot more transportation choices.
00:18:57
Speaker
And so investing in public transit, growing public transit, investing in these sort of these core, um when we think about public services like public health care, public education, public transit is the base of that pyramid.
00:19:09
Speaker
And so really, I put a lot of energy into transportation choices, whether it's active transportation, bike lanes, um growing our bus network. I'm really proud that our you know our LRT growth and our bus growth has actually outpaced population growth.
00:19:23
Speaker
More people are choosing and and are having a more affordable life because of great public transit. If you're on a high-frequency bus route now, you barely have to check the schedule. You just walk outside and the bus will be there um between 5 and 15 minutes. it's just It's just like the train.
00:19:37
Speaker
I never check the schedule when I walk to the train. I know the train is coming. That's great. um We also have had a ah lot of success in legalizing more housing in more places, building affordable housing on surplus school sites, committed to more affordable housing.
00:19:50
Speaker
These are the areas where I saw I could have the biggest wins and the biggest impact. i I think that um there's there's always going to be enormous challenges ahead, but you sort of have to You sort of have to look at the opportunities you have for the biggest wins and where you can have some gains and whether it's extending pool hours, a small thing, but a huge impact for those families.
00:20:11
Speaker
Library hours on Sundays, a small thing, but a huge impact for those families. Helping fight privatization and making sure that we can have more money for for for garbage, for snow and ice, for potholes, for you know making sure that sidewalks can get fixed. There's areas in my ward that didn't have sidewalks that now have sidewalks.
00:20:26
Speaker
There's those little things that I can see that are ah worth being proud about.
Constituency Demographics and Concerns
00:20:30
Speaker
I mean, I'm still coming out swinging on the big structural issues. I hosted an event recently with the Canadians for Tax Fairness where we talked about the billionaires and the the the inequality issues in Canada.
00:20:40
Speaker
um I hosted Sandy and Nora here in Edmonton to talk about these these big issues, especially around um especially around the genocide in Gaza and global global affairs. i you know I still see my role as a convener of social dialogue here when the Harbinger Media Network was in town.
00:20:56
Speaker
I help them organize an event. I'm still committed to a strong social justice agenda. um But the reality is when you have a council agenda with only so many items on them, you need to prioritize which items you can have the biggest gains on.
00:21:10
Speaker
And I really see in our capital budget, making sure that we can continue investing in transit, replacing buses, making sure people can get to work in an affordable way. That's where we see the biggest outsized impact on our climate goals too.
00:21:21
Speaker
Same with infill, same with walkable cities, same with allowing people to to live in more infill and more places and in more homes inside of that Hyundai. We're finally curbing urban sprawl. 40% of homes last year were built inside the Hyundai. That's huge. I think that's the most that we've had in the last few decades.
00:21:38
Speaker
And i you know these these are areas where I've had um you know great success. It sounds like that you've sort of learned maybe ah to you know pick your battles ah more over over ah the past few years um from you know when you started. Of course, this isn't your first ah rodeo as an elected official.
00:22:06
Speaker
You know, um you were a school board trustee. And prior to that, you were involved with student government at the U of a But I'm wondering, what else have you learned over the past few years?
00:22:18
Speaker
Well, I mean, like take the Mayfair golf course. That was one of my higher profile fights. I went after the Mayfair golf course lease and I'm still frustrated by it. But that decision was made. um And, you know, we kind of got to move on.
00:22:29
Speaker
So there's still things like any opportunity, somebody asked me about it, I'll talk about how it's an injustice, how it's an instructive opportunity, and how we need to learn from that fight. But, you know, sometimes you just, it's not worth reopening the debate debate on at this very moment.
00:22:45
Speaker
Right. And sort of, I mean, you've been talking about like, ah you know, working class Edmontonians a couple times already throughout the course of ah this interview. I'm wondering else who else you see your main ah sort of constituency as, you know, the sort of the your main pool of voters in Ward Papasteo.
00:23:07
Speaker
Well, I have an, you know, demographically, i have I have an enormous number of students, of young people, of professors, of U of A staff. I have a ton of government
Municipal Political Parties Debate
00:23:16
Speaker
employees. I think the number one employer in my ward is either the government of Alberta or the University of Alberta, or i think Alberta Health Services. There's an enormous amount of, uh, um,
00:23:27
Speaker
ah public sector workers here who who are are raising their families and depend on everything from ah you know public transit to swimming lessons at public pools. So um I've been really trying to amplify their concerns and help help achieve ah you know wins for them, even even some of the small things like ah addressing you know like addressing waste pickup challenges. It's just you you figure out what you can do in your control and and you chi and and you try and make the most gains.
00:23:56
Speaker
Michael, a bit of prep that I was doing for this episode was that I sat down this morning with ah an old friend and mentor of yours, Arup. And Lou and I were having a chat about ah policy of yours that we yeah we disagree with you about actually, which is ah political parties at the municipal level.
00:24:19
Speaker
Now, obviously, the way that the UCP have implemented political parties is is demonic. It's a gigantic gaping moth for dark money, corporate financing.
00:24:35
Speaker
it It seems like a very naked attempt to try and buy their way into city council. But the general idea of political parties at the municipal level, I'm not against.
00:24:46
Speaker
I recall in I believe it was the last municipal election. One of your challengers was Kirsten Gawah.
00:24:57
Speaker
And I recall during that election period, Keith Jerein invading against political parties. And then this seems to have been prompted by, i can tell a bit of the story here, you know, early on before the municipal election kicked off, Duncan and I were trying to hold to court a little bit and help the different campaigns organize so that there might hopefully be a little less vote splitting, little less pointless conflict to avoid conservatives coming up the middle in some of these wards.
00:25:31
Speaker
And it turned out that there were other people also trying to organize along these lines. So Duncan and I eventually handed project off. Jocelyn Johnson was involved in in that afterwards, doing a lot of the heavy lifting.
00:25:45
Speaker
And this at this point was not ah political party, but just a proposal that you know folks try and integrate and collaborate a little bit more, step on each other's toes a little bit less.
00:25:57
Speaker
And then this Geraint article drops and suddenly the but discourse in the city entirely tilts against the idea of political parties, which I think has caused a lot of strategic or tactical damage to us because now we're going into this municipal election and the Conservatives have parties.
00:26:19
Speaker
They've put parties together, they're organized behind parties and they're benefiting from all of the opportunities that the new UCP legislation give to parties, but we're not. And I feel like the progressive left in Edmonton is kind of bringing a knife to a gunfight here.
00:26:34
Speaker
What do you think about this situation? You know, the biggest applause line I've got from different rooms that I've gone to is that I'm running as an independent. I'm accountable to you, not the big corporate donors, not the political parties. People want to know that their councillor works for them.
00:26:48
Speaker
Toronto is a city, you know, four times, three times the size of Edmonton. They don't have political parties. um Montreal does. Vancouver does. But those cities have a different um system. Like they're a, what's the word, ah ranked ballot you have a, um you know, vote for five out of seven or whatever it is.
00:27:05
Speaker
um I don't think that the way municipal government is structured, where you're not you're it's not the Westminster parliamentary system, you don't have ah a leader, you don't have a whip, you don't come in with a throne speech, you actually debate everything out in the open.
00:27:19
Speaker
um It's not structured to support parties. It's not structured to support party discipline. Ultimately, let's be real. echo This isn't about a sort of poli-sci discussion about whether we should have parties or not.
00:27:30
Speaker
What this is about is a small group of millionaires and billionaires who want to bankroll their way into us a second, third, fourth, Daniel Smith term in government. And that means removing people in Calgary and Edmonton that are gadflies to the provincial government.
00:27:46
Speaker
Calgary Conservatives have never been able to get a hold City Hall. They've been furious about it. You can look up the sprawl cabal and the big fights that Nenshi had when he was mayor. Same in Edmonton. They've been disappointed that they've had kind of liberal centrist types like Don Iveson and others on council.
00:28:00
Speaker
This is not about but the parties. This is about the big money. That's why you see the dark money packs. That's why you see the... um the the the vociferous uh um uh interference by the uh uh the big capital landlord real estate suburban sprawl developer class into into this election and you see enormous amounts of money just in 2024 one of the candidates for merit tim carmel already raised i think 70 percent of what amirjeet sohi spent in the last municipal election just in one year we are going to see the most spending we've ever seen in this municipal election and that's terrifying because i don't have that money you don't have that money Jeremy doesn't have that money.
00:28:40
Speaker
it it's It's a few small, wealthy individuals who do, and they are able to give more and more and more. And so it really scares me that we are going to see just a, it like a Citizens United, Republican style, Trump-Musk,
00:28:54
Speaker
um enormous inflow of cash here. And to some extent, that's how it always was. that The Edmonton Federation of Community Leagues did a study of the 2013 municipal election, and they found that the candidates who raised the most money in every race won.
00:29:07
Speaker
And the candidates who raised the most money in every ward, or in every race, the number one donor were suburban land developers. And I've been very critical about this. I mean, you know, infill, yes, it's it's a controversial topic, but sprawl, sprawl is where the real money is. Sprawl is where there's there's billions, billions of dollars to be made and billions of dollars of costs to be incurred by future taxpayers.
00:29:30
Speaker
So this is this is the conversation we need to be having. um And just like whether we're talking about the Cates Group handouts downtown with the new event park and the the previous downtown arena deal, or whether we're talking about land development, we have to follow the money. This is the really important thing we need to be talking about.
00:29:47
Speaker
And right now, at 100 days from the next municipal election, it's it's not worth us wasting our time, whether we talk about the you know the virtues of of ah parties
Campaign Financing and Independent Politics
00:29:56
Speaker
or not. We need to alert every single listener the danger that lies ahead here about the big money.
00:30:03
Speaker
Jog my memory, which of the two parties, is it is it Pace or is it Tim Cartbell's Better Edmonton that Stephen Carter is attached to?
00:30:14
Speaker
i believe Stephen Carter is attached to the Better Edmonton ah party. um Although, i I mean, I think that was reported in the journal, so you may want to source that. Yeah.
00:30:25
Speaker
Well, if he is, let's hope he works the same magic he worked for Ken Sim and ABC Vancouver.
00:30:33
Speaker
Yeah, i um I just wanted to mention because, ah Michael, you said that that um you know you're afraid that you know the US s and Citizens United, that sort of unlimited amount of corporate cash going into elections is going to be happening here in Alberta. But I just wanted to to um
00:30:57
Speaker
ah you note that there are still ah limits on the amount of corporate and union donations in the legislation that UCB introduced last year. So I'm wondering why are, in your view, those ah limits insufficient to prevent ah our elections here in the coming...
00:31:26
Speaker
like what you see in the States. Yeah, so a couple of things. there's there's It's basically the Wild West when it comes to PACs to political action committees. And that's that's deeply concerning. We already have one that's been running ads called Edmonton Forward that I believe is connected to Daniel Smith adjacent people.
00:31:43
Speaker
um there's also There are um some limits, but they're set so ridiculously high that you can give $5,000 to a candidate and and and then you can double that for a party. You can also give that money in 2024 in 2025.
00:31:56
Speaker
And the fact that um I'll give you an example. um if If I receive tickets to the Citadel, I have to disclose it if they're over $300 and it's disclosed on a quarterly basis. But somebody could give me $5,000 for my election campaign and I could be voting on something related to their business, like say this downtown CRL extension on Thursday, and I don't need to disclose that until far later in the process. We have quarterly disclosures for you know tickets to the Junos or tickets to the Citadel, but we don't for campaign expenses. And that's that's actually deeply concerning because you could have candidates voting this Thursday on a deal, even though they've received $5,000 or more to their party um related to the upcoming vote.
00:32:39
Speaker
And that's concerning. It doesn't pass the sniff test for Edmontonians. And ultimately, I would like to see a ban on... that um corporate and union donations in in politics. it's It's actually kind of a joke anyway that unions that we say corporate and union donations because the unions can't really give money anyway.
00:32:55
Speaker
um there's There's so many limits there. So there there their laces are tied together. But when it comes to to corporations, they can they can you know you can file it fire up all the number companies you want and and and go nuts. it's ah um Money is a massively corrupting influence. And I i do not think that this this bodes well for democracy. And I hope that Edmontonians, wherever you are, just reject the party candidate, whoever they are.
00:33:19
Speaker
we need to We need to put this whole party experiment to bed. Well, at the same time, I kind of wanted to push back about that because I do agree with ah Jim and Lou Arab that I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with introducing parties ah On a municipal level, I mean, you see in Vancouver, um you know unfortunately, the wrong party won ah in the last election, but you also see Cope and Sean Orr.
00:33:46
Speaker
But they don't have a wordide they don't have a worldwide system. It's an open plenary. It'd be like a across Edmonton. like If we were just voting across Edmonton, they don't they don't have a worldwide system. So like there's many, many differences between um We're much closer to Toronto than we are in Vancouver or Montreal or other municipalities.
00:34:05
Speaker
Right. and And why does that having an open ah you know council election, ah why is that does that make why is that more conducive towards political parties?
00:34:18
Speaker
Well, i think I think because it's, you're like in Vancouver, if you're in Vancouver, you're voting for like, it's it's kind of like one it's one race and one one ticket.
00:34:29
Speaker
And so it's an open across the city. Here you have ah here you have different wards and yeah, like there's there's a number of other changes I would want it i would want to see i wouldn't want to see first. And and um ultimately, again, this isn't about the parties. This is about the money.
00:34:44
Speaker
You got to follow the money. Yeah, I mean, this is more of a comment than a question, but I was interviewing ah Lisa Young from the University of Calgary ah for a story I wrote in Alberta Views that came out several months ago about sort of the way that you see ah really ah clamping down on municipal governments. And she made a point that I quite agree with, um saying that, yeah, in isolation, I mean, you have a debate over whether political parties are beneficial or detrimental to municipal politics.
00:35:20
Speaker
But in conjunction with all the other changes the UCP are making, it's a clear effort ah Not just to ah you know make it clear to voters sort of who stands for what, but to get um more UCP-linked people elected.
00:35:39
Speaker
um and ah yeah i mean i think that's something we probably all agree on, that regardless of what you... Yeah, it's not just the elected. It's also like who they appoint to the police commission, who they appoint to all these other provincial bodies, etc.
00:35:53
Speaker
I think Canadians, by and large, don't like political parties. They don't like the party system at the provincial or the federal ah level. i think I think generally we've seen that. It's been a lot more constrained, a lot more top-down. And I think generally Canadians would like to see... you know That's why there's so few members of political parties across Canada. And I think that's why...
00:36:12
Speaker
more Canadians, you know they i think they generally see the machinations of parties and it's a small club of people who who operate these things. and And I think there's a lot of resistance to it. And I think people really appreciate the transparency, appreciate the diversity, appreciate the nuance, appreciate that you know even though we may have a generally progressive leaning council, that ah you know your councillor is not going to get bumped from a party or have their nomination withheld or be blackballed or whatever because of a position that they take.
00:36:44
Speaker
I really enjoy being able to go out and and and you know speak my mind to come to this podcast and to share you know the views from my heart, not that have been pre-approved by a party or anyone else. I find it quite comical that you're going to have party candidates going door to door this election. Well, who wrote the policy for them? Is it their leader? Is it their party? They can tell you whatever they want on the doorstep, but...
00:37:07
Speaker
um When push comes to shove at City Hall, are they going to have a party whip? are they going yeah um like who Who is actually holding them accountable? Are they going to be ah you know pulled from their party? are they going to like Especially the donors. The donors have been told one thing, give our party money and we will do this.
00:37:25
Speaker
This is our position. Well, i I don't think that's going to jive with the local candidates. and i think I think people are are very suspect of that, rightfully so. But like at the same time, like parties are here in Edmonton and Calgary, ah you know whether you like it or not. um you know and I mean, it's not a secret that you are an NDP guy. I mean, your ward is... ah you know both the safest NDP seat in Alberta and the safest one in Canada, right? so
00:37:59
Speaker
um But um I was just wondering, and with with that in mind, ah how would you respond to people who would suggest that it was a mistake um for ah you know the sort of electoral left in Edmonton, such as it is, not to ah band together and have some sort of of party when you know that ah your opponents are doing I think first of all, like I may be an NDP guy as a person, i may go to NDP events, I may support Heather, I may support Rachel, I may support Nahid or whoever, but that is not, um when I'm your councillor, not their guy. i do not do what Nahid wants me to do or what Rachel wants me to do or anyone else. I do what, I i am a free agent as a city councillor. That's a really important nuance and a difference.
00:38:51
Speaker
um I think that the reality is the only reason this election to form a political party, and this is actually a quote from Councillor Carton. Councillor Carton put out a ah blog trashing the idea of municipal political parties, um but then he eventually came around to forming his party and he said in the journal, you know,
00:39:08
Speaker
I have to do this to be competitive. In other words, i'm doing it you know I'm doing it for the money. I need the money. and That is the only reason. and The reality is on the left today, we do not have the same millionaires and billionaires who are going to be bankrolling left campaigns here in the city.
Public Services and Police Budget Scrutiny
00:39:25
Speaker
the The reality is like my campaigns have all been paid for by small money donors in the past, and that's what's going to be happening again. there's there's there's no there's ah There's no upside because the big money is already going to the conservatives. The developers already spent um and donated and supported my opponents in past elections. They're going to do so again.
00:39:45
Speaker
um So i I find that sometimes standing on principle, even if it's saying, listen, I represent you, not these not these other interests, is is more appealing. And I've been door knocking a lot. And it's one of the most one of the most frequent things I hear is they know when they talk to me that I can listen, that I can make amendments, that I can change, that I don't have to go home and check with you know ah big party daddy before making it making an adjustment.
00:40:11
Speaker
Standing on principle is ah is something I want to get to. and I suppose this is where we turn away from something we disagree with you on to something that we very much agree with you on. I was heartened to hear in your campaign launch presentation last Friday that you are a big proponent of fighting and losing when necessary, of ah of putting in the work to shift the needle on unpopular issues.
00:40:36
Speaker
I mean, the the common joke over on the Discords about a lot of the Alberta NDP or Nodleyite politics and the federal NDP politics too, is that it stands for never do politics, that these folks have a tendency to just chase the polls instead of taking a lead on an issue and trying to fight to make it popular. you You mentioned in your presentation that you learned this from an old mentor of yours, Alan Bolstad, while he was telling you about his fight to get smoking banned in bars and restaurants.
00:41:13
Speaker
ah Well, i believe I believe the positions I take are actually popular. I believe the majority is with me. ah public Strong public services are popular. People want to know that their city saves them time and money.
00:41:27
Speaker
that you know when you Whether you're looking at our garbage service, our snow removal, everything else, the bread and butter issues, the public transit, people know that strong public services save us money, that build a strong community.
00:41:38
Speaker
and And I don't think we should be shying away from that. I think we should be really leaning into the affordability messaging that whether it's it's it's rent control, public housing, whatever it is, um these are popular ideas. And people know that people are compassionate. People are, um they want to see um smart solutions. They want to see strong public services. The polls show this.
00:41:59
Speaker
um it's It's, I think, ah it's up it's up to our leaders to to advance this and act. Well, I would push back on that slightly because while, yes, some of your meat and potatoes issues are popular and poll quite well, a couple of them really don't.
00:42:15
Speaker
The police are very, very popular in this city. And the the idea of restraining or especially of defunding their budget at all seems quite unpopular.
00:42:26
Speaker
I would agree, but that's but i want to be clear I want to be clear, Jim, that's not a position I've taken. i've I've said that the money, I've questioned how the money is being spent. ive I disagreed with a guarantee year-over-year interest or a year-over-year increase.
00:42:41
Speaker
I've disagreed with the fact that they have, you know, 18 communications people and they should be putting that money towards other areas. I've i spoken in favor of upfunding other services that augment or reduce demand on the police.
00:42:54
Speaker
These, I think, are popular positions and there has there has been polling that that shows that people understand that. um I think the problem is is you know when you when you get into these sort of the defund the police or police the police or you get into the more theoretical, that's that's where I think people get scared, worried, confused, get into a debate about terms, things like that.
00:43:15
Speaker
But if you talk to Edmontonians and say, hey, we think that in some cases we're going to send a firetruck, but in other cases we're going to send an ambulance. In some cases we're going to send a squad car, but in other cases we're going to send a social worker.
00:43:26
Speaker
And in some cases we're going to send a full SWAT team. People understand that, and and that is popular. People want to see value for tax dollars. People want to see efficiency of spending. People want to know that um they are ah people are being taken care of, whether it's by the healthcare system, the fire department, or anybody else.
00:43:43
Speaker
Well, I certainly hope you're right. your One of your opponents in Papastehu, Joshua Doyle, has already been putting out statements trying to portray you as anti-conf, which is probably a popular message to a lot of our audience. i I don't think a lot of people listening to the pod would be turned off to if they got that perception of you.
00:44:05
Speaker
But that does seem to be a line of attack that Doyle and perhaps your other opponent, Hillman, are going to deploy against you. I think it's this outdated idea that you just shouldn't be allowed to ask questions about the police budget. You shouldn't be allowed to ask questions about efficiency of expenditures. You shouldn't be able to ask questions about misconduct or accountability. I mean, just because you're asking questions, no one should be immune from questions or criticism. And think I've demonstrated that at city council. I've always been respectful. I've always asked
00:44:38
Speaker
um ah Research questions, I've always got curious and tried to find more information. that is That is, I think, something that all taxpayers and all Edmontonians appreciate. And you know even members of the Edmonton Police Service have reached out to me and said, yeah, I had questions about management spending. I had questions about what's going on here.
00:44:55
Speaker
um Even, you know, even within the even within the police, there's there's ah open questions about some of the things I've raised. And and the police union has to if you look at some of their newsletters, they have been certainly more critical of past leadership than than I have.
00:45:10
Speaker
But for different reasons. Oh, some of the same. No, some of the same. Some of the questions around use of dollars and and things like that, too. The province of Alberta recently have put forward a review of police accountability of prosecutors of trying to figure out, you know, making sure that something like what happened in the Pacey Dumas case, um that we can make sure we have greater ah transparency and accountability in future.
00:45:34
Speaker
Right. So I guess there there is some there is some common ground there. But I'm wondering, say you're re-elected and ah Mike Elliott ah is elected in the word he's running in.
00:45:47
Speaker
How would ah you approach ah being on council ah the with someone who has really gone after you in a pretty vicious fashion?
00:46:01
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i got thick skin. i'm ah I'm not worried. i i would hope that um at the end of the day, if it's Mike or anyone else who's elected, that ultimately they, um or or I guess anybody from that political party, I guess, who's elected, um that they... um They realize that they're they're they're there to serve all Edmontonians, not just their former employer, and they they need to bring ah um a collaborative perspective. One of the things I like about Council is that you know i some days I'm helping Tim Cartmel with something, some days I'm helping Andrew Neck with something, other days I'm ah you know opposing somebody else with something. You've got build
00:46:37
Speaker
it's it's you know you got to build a you've got to build consensus because one file you might be in agreement, another one you might be opposed, and ultimately it's it's it's what's good for the city. I i believe that you know i'm my concern is how do we grow public transit ridership? How do we grow more housing choices? How do we make sure that we can protect strong public services?
00:46:56
Speaker
How do we offer more swimming lessons? And whether it's whoever's elected, if they want to support those same and objectives, if they want to make sure that everybody can have a home and we can make sure that we take care of people, ah that's the kind of city I want to build. and Anybody who wants to you know join me for the ride, ah come along.
00:47:13
Speaker
Okay, well, this has been a very interesting conversation. We didn't even get to the stuff that I wanted to ask you about sprawl and zoning. We're going to just have to but have you back on the pod again soon, I suppose. Anytime. but we're We're running pretty long, so I guess we should wrap up.
00:47:27
Speaker
I'll give you a little space here, though. Is there anything you would like to say to the listeners before we close? Yeah, I think um you know it's really important that when you look at a four-year term, ah you look at the entirety of the term.
00:47:39
Speaker
There might be decisions that me or one of my colleagues or somebody else made that you disagree with. There might be some that you agree with, but I think you have to look at the arc. um Each counselor casts in, you know I think it's over a thousand votes in their term.
00:47:51
Speaker
And I think it's really important to look and say, listen, um I may not agree with everything, but I agree with the direction that or or I don't agree with the direction and take a look at that big arc. I think it's it's important to to not get weighed down in ah the specific...
00:48:08
Speaker
ah details about um one one vote or another, I think it's important to look at the trajectory we've been going in and and say, do we want to build a city that has more housing? Do we want to build a city that has more transportation choices?
00:48:21
Speaker
Do we want action on clean air and water for all? Do we want more public services? I think that's what's really important. I think um sometimes we on the left love to get too into policy and nuance and positions and all this.
00:48:32
Speaker
But ultimately, the enemy is at the gates.
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:48:35
Speaker
We have extremely well-funded campaigns, two major conservative parties fighting for quite a scary vision for what the city should be.
00:48:44
Speaker
and And I think that that is what we need to be talking about here. And wherever you are, whether I'm your councillor or not, I urge your listeners to get involved. Go and meet the candidate. Talk to them. ah vote Volunteer. Donate. Support. Even a small amount of money, even a very small amount of volunteering can have an outsized impact on a campaign.
00:49:02
Speaker
and And I think it's important to get involved. And even even if even if this is this the the candidate you have is not perfect, i get involved because I can guarantee you, if we let go of our city to these right-wing forces, the austerity forces that want to privatize public services, that want to keep sprawling in perpetuity, that want to slash bus routes and close libraries and do these other pieces, um that's that's what that's what we need to be talking about this election. I think there's a...
00:49:30
Speaker
um um There's a great vision ahead of us that is going to build a more affordable city for everyone. I think we're making great headway and there's many, many things I'm proud of. um But you know I think um i think you know we we need whether it's the political party debate or whatever it is, we need to put that aside and realize that um there's a reason Daniel Smith does what she does. She's talented, she's smart, and she's ah she's a mercenary.
00:49:55
Speaker
And I think we... we We, on the the progressive side, i need to look here and find common cause and rally together. Thanks for your time today, Michael. Folks, if you want to keep up to date with the Jans campaign, his website is at www.michaeljans.ca.
00:50:16
Speaker
As always, you can find our written content and our pods at theprogressreport.ca. And if you would like to pitch in a little to make sure that Jeremy and I can maintain our employment,
00:50:26
Speaker
ah just browse over to the patrons page there. Well, thanks a lot, fellas. Appreciate you both. And we'll see you again on the Progress Report podcast.