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Fasting for Gaza
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Jim and Jeremy speak with participants in an ongoing 40-day fast for Gaza about the present situation in Palestine, organizing back here in Edmonton, and the difficult task of grappling with power from a disempowered position.
Please consider supporting this pod and/or subscribing to the newsletter at https://www.theprogressreport.ca/
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Transcript
Introduction and Grim Global Events
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello friends and enemies. Welcome to another episode of the Progress Report. I am your co-host Jeremy Appel speaking to you from Amiskichi, Waskygan, otherwise known as Edmonton in Treaty 6 territory.
00:00:31
Speaker
ah Joining me as usual is my co-host Jim Story. Jim, how are you? A little sleepy, but better than a lot of folks are doing today, I think. I mean, we've got Greta.
00:00:44
Speaker
Greta is in Israeli custody, having been caught trying to get food into Gaza. Down in L.A., the bell riots from Deep Space Nine have kicked off. Times seem pretty grim.
00:00:55
Speaker
Yeah, and I think they're forcing Greta and the other Flotilla members to watch the October 7th snuff film that they the Israeli embassy hosted in cities around the world, including... Well,
Challenges in Opposing Power
00:01:12
Speaker
that'll sort them out. That'll change their mind.
00:01:14
Speaker
Yeah, just picturing it like the clockwork orange, like the, what do they call it the vitiligo method, is it, with their eyes like forced open? god Really grim, authoritarian stuff.
00:01:29
Speaker
um And, you know, with the Israelis and the Americans, as you alluded to, it seems that there is ah no bottom to their depravity.
00:01:43
Speaker
No. And I think even though it is less intense up here, it does touch on, you know, it all comes to to one central theme, which is how do you effectively oppose this stuff? How do you move the dial on this stuff when...
00:02:01
Speaker
the power that you're trying to contest is completely recalcitrant when it's like a brick wall.
Activists Fasting for Gaza
00:02:08
Speaker
And in the local context, you know you could point to years of opposition and protest here, not stopping things like the coal project and in Grassy Mountain that has gone ahead despite public protest.
00:02:23
Speaker
or the plans for police and pensions and municipal political parties, all of which were heavily opposed and nobody seemed to want.
00:02:36
Speaker
So the overall question is, you know what what is an activist to do in this kind of situation? Right. And so ah this week on the Progress Report, we've got two local ah Palestine solidarity activists who are fasting for Gaza to both countries.
00:03:00
Speaker
keep attention on the situation in Palestine and to raise funds for mutual aid projects um in Gaza, um you know, sending money to people directly on the ground rather than giving it to some NGO who will be sitting in a truck um on the Egyptian border because the Israelis won't let anything in unless it's with this very shady Gaza humanitarian foundation that seems to have been set up with assistance from US s and Israeli intelligence to ah weaponize a distribution and everyone in Gaza into Rafa.
00:03:47
Speaker
People are getting shot at ah trying to get aid every day now. And the Israelis are just ah lying ah through their teeth saying, you know, the usual routine. What are you talking about? No one was killed. That was Hamas propaganda.
00:04:01
Speaker
ah We would never shoot at people receiving aid and then saying, oh, yeah, well, we fired some warning shots, but ah they didn't hit anyone and there are no casualties. And ah There's been some pretty good journalism by CNN, of all places, showing that, yeah, the Israelis were shooting at people trying to get aid.
00:04:22
Speaker
um And so um yeah, so, I mean, things are especially dark and bleak. um in Palestine.
00:04:33
Speaker
And at the same time, you know, we've had almost two years now of marches and, ah you know, other campaigns ah to try and push our government to impose sanctions on Israel and support an arms embargo.
Interview with Joshua Goldberg and Carly Hughes
00:04:54
Speaker
um And ah none of that appears to have been effective in terms of changing policy. um So ah we talked to Joshua Goldberg and Carly Hughes um about ah the approach they're taking now. um of ah fasting in solidarity with people who are starving to death as we speak, ah sort of what they're looking to accomplish, ah how um they've been, you know, managing, ah limiting their caloric intake every day, and ah what the reception has been.
00:05:37
Speaker
Yeah, we did this interview last Friday. It's Monday, were recording now. And I don't want to spoil the whole thing for anyone. Obviously, listen on. But I think that Josh has a very interesting thesis about how you should go about trying to affect change when you're in a really asymmetric position, when the other side is holding almost all the cards.
00:06:00
Speaker
And I think that that is as applicable when it comes to Gaza as it is when it comes to the stuff going down in America today, or even the local matters here in Alberta.
00:06:14
Speaker
So it was a real pleasure to speak with them. Why don't we get right to it? Let's do it. Welcome to the Progress Report, Joshua and Carly. Thanks. It's good to be here.
00:06:27
Speaker
Yeah, thank you for having us on today. So you've spent ah the past two weeks ah on a hunger strike for Palestine.
00:06:39
Speaker
Of course, such an act is you know highly symbolic given the situation on the ground there and the mass starvation that we've all been hearing about now for months and months.
00:06:52
Speaker
That only seems to be getting worse. But I wanted to ask, um What led you to take this course of action now? So I want to be clear that we're not actually doing a hunger strike. We're doing a fast, which is part of an international 40 day fast for Gaza. And because it's 40 days, that's not a period where people can safely, completely do a hunger strike with no food or water.
00:07:20
Speaker
And the intention of this 40 days is to increase the actions, not to decrease them. So there's five different levels that people can participate in this international fast.
00:07:31
Speaker
And each of us in there are 16 people doing it locally. and hundreds more in other places around the world. And each person can self-select what level is appropriate for their health and the ah the work they do, if it's physical labor, for example, or if they have caregiving responsibilities, so that they are not depleted by this and we're not making the movement weaker, we're actually making it stronger.
00:07:56
Speaker
So that I just wanted to do that preface so that people don't um get the impression that we're doing a ah total hunger strike, which is a time honored tactic used by many people, particularly I'm thinking of people in prison who have done it. But also, yeah, there's there's so many people who have done hunger strikes and that's not what we're doing. We're doing a.
00:08:15
Speaker
a fast, which is a reduction in some way in our food or liquid intake. um And it's part of an international effort to really, I think, focus everyone on the realities of this intentional starvation happening of people, particularly in Gaza.
00:08:32
Speaker
um And the consequences of that, but also as a practical tool to free up some of the money that we would have spent on groceries and some of the time we might have spent preparing or cooking food to be able to use both money and time to be of maximum benefit in this terrible time when so many people, you know obviously aid is not getting in.
00:08:55
Speaker
And so people's only option is to buy from the limited supplies that are available in the markets which are incredibly expensive and people have no income. So you can't buy a bag of flour for $800 if you have no income.
00:09:08
Speaker
And so by freeing up some of our grocery money, we're actually able to send money directly to people in Gaza so that they can buy whatever is available in the markets. And you're connected with like mutual aid projects on the ground.
00:09:23
Speaker
I know one particular mutual friend, Nora, is fundraising for her uncle who's in Gaza. um And um I want to ask, though, and maybe this one's for Carly.
00:09:38
Speaker
Why now?
00:09:42
Speaker
Um, there is an international call for this kind of action. There are numerous international calls for this kind of action right now, um, with the total blockade, um, of Gaza and no, no food, no supplies getting in.
00:09:56
Speaker
Um, now the symbolic importance of fasting or hunger striking feels especially, um, and especially, yeah, something we should be emphasizing.
00:10:08
Speaker
So there have been a lot of actions happening over the past, um, almost two years and people have been hunger striking as well. But now having these international calls to this kind of action does have a particular significance and highlights the importance of like Joshua was saying, getting aid into Gaza to so that people who have no income are able to purchase the very limited supplies that are still in Gaza Strip. And that's, I think, part of the importance of doing this kind of action now.
00:10:44
Speaker
I think, too, there's a I'm just going to bite in, even though you didn't invite me to. No, no, no, please do. I think, too, there's there's a cumulative impact. So Gaza has been held under siege by Israel since 2007. This is not you know only since 2023.
00:11:01
Speaker
But obviously, since 2023, that siege has intensified so greatly. So people have been kept at a starvation level for months and months and months.
00:11:12
Speaker
And right now, people are literally dying of starvation because of the cumulative impact of the siege. and i this came about locally in part because Carly and I talked about this in April when the last bakeries shut down in Gaza because of the continued blockade on on fuel getting in as well as flour.
00:11:32
Speaker
And i remember at that time thinking, oh my God, how can the last bakery shut down and we do exactly what we have been? Surely we've got to change up what we're doing. you know Whether it's from a and sort of what's politically effective perspective, but just on a purely human, you know when we let starvation, forced starvation happen, and we don't do anything differently than we already have been, then there's something wrong with us really as a society.
00:12:05
Speaker
And how ah this one is for each of you. um Let's start with you, Joshua. How did you prepare ah for this fast, which you've been doing for now the past couple of weeks? Is it?
00:12:18
Speaker
How did you sort of mentally and physically prepare yourself for limiting your intake of, ah you know, food and in water for an
Canadian Government Criticism
00:12:29
Speaker
extended period of time?
00:12:33
Speaker
Well, we didn't. you know the The call internationally went out on a Tuesday night saying, we need to do this. This is a dire emergency. We're asking people around the world to do a 40 day, you know whether you do it as a relay between different people doing different days or whether you do the whole thing.
00:12:50
Speaker
But in this emergency, we need to dig deep and do more than we have been and do something different than we have been collectively. and do just make this commitment because Palestinians didn't get the choice of how do you prepare for a genocide.
00:13:05
Speaker
So you know to to we definitely want people to do it safely and it's not a complete hunger strike. So some people are like myself are doing 250 calories a day, which is the average amount that people in Gaza were able to access back in December 2024. much now.
00:13:23
Speaker
so much worse now But you know some people are doing missing one meal or refraining from eating any animal products because there has been no animal products in Gaza for months and months and months.
00:13:37
Speaker
Or other things that sort of tie us to what's happening on the ground in Gaza. But we didn't have time to prepare. This wasn't a sort of deliberate, okay, now we're going to do this in two weeks. So how do we work with a nutritionist and figure out an optimal nutrition plan?
00:13:53
Speaker
This was just, are we able in our conscience right now to respond to this call? And I think the 19 months of preparation that happened for many of us of doing so many things to try and make a difference in Canada having some kind of reasonable response to genocide, that that is the preparation, that that listening to people in Gaza, this is a live streamed genocide. It's not like we can't connect with people on the ground.
00:14:23
Speaker
We have relationships with people on the ground and they tell us what's happening. That's been the preparation, I would say, more than the kind of like, how do you do it nutritionally or how do you do it physically? It's more the mental preparation of um having deep love for people who are going through a genocide. And each of us came to that in a different way. I can't speak for any of the other people fasting.
00:14:43
Speaker
I can only speak for how I how i prepared. Carly, I don't know if you have anything. but Yeah, I would really echo what you said, Joshua. We didn't, like you said, we didn't have any time to prepare. And I don't think that I would have spent any time that we would have had preparing anything physically or mentally for this.
00:15:03
Speaker
um And I think this fast isn't meant to mimic the experiences of people in Gaza. um They don't have, for the most part, people there do not have 250 calories a day accessible to them.
00:15:18
Speaker
um So I don't think that there's any, I guess, reason to physically prepare for something like this because it's not a personal challenge to see what we can do. It's a commitment to renewing what, yeah,
00:15:34
Speaker
renewing the commitment that we have to doing everything that we're able to do and to making this a part of our lives. And I don't think that there's yeah anything that physically or mentally preparing for that would do.
00:15:51
Speaker
So where the Canadian context is concerned, we did just have a change in federal government. which provides a bit of an opportunity for a change in foreign policy.
00:16:03
Speaker
From your perspective, Josh and Carly, how are the new feds doing? How is Mark Carney doing? it Are you seeing any satisfactory movement at all on Palestine?
00:16:19
Speaker
Carly, do you want to answer this? Do you want me to? i mean, yeah. yeah I don't think that there has been any satisfactory movement from the feds and from Kearney.
00:16:31
Speaker
I think there have been, as there has been over the past almost two years, a lot of like promises and words and like, yeah, commitments to action and no follow through um and and just a continuance of the complicity and the support that Canada has showed to Israel and to the genocide.
00:16:56
Speaker
I read today that despite ah despite Melanie Jolie allegedly banning arms shipments to Israel itself, a lot of Canadian arms are still getting there by going through the United States, which has been a bit of a loophole.
00:17:14
Speaker
And the the unions out in New Brunswick right now are refusing to move the cargo. so
00:17:23
Speaker
I would definitely understand that one of your one of your demands here is to stop arming them, because we have not stopped, have we No, and this is really longstanding too, you know but I think some of what is so horrifying is that literally we've watched for the first time, I think ever, a live streamed genocide happening.
00:17:45
Speaker
And we're literally almost 20 months in. And the best that the Canadian government has done is cancel ah new permit applications for weapons export.
00:17:56
Speaker
There's still active... permits that were initiated before October 2023. There's still, as you've said, components being sent through the US or other third parties. you know therere And if we think about it, really, there are so many tools readily available to Canada that Canada has actually opted for with other countries.
00:18:16
Speaker
But in this instance, There's a scale of atrocity, and yet the best Canada seems to muster is, oh, it's very sad. We really hope Israel will change what it's doing.
00:18:27
Speaker
And there's so much more that Canada could be doing and absolutely should be doing. And I think we should all be terrified, frankly, that Canada can respond to a genocide and do nothing. And that...
00:18:38
Speaker
global powers around the world who have many tools available to them can look at this genocide and say, oh, that's really so sad because no doubt what is being done to Palestinians has been going on for many decades.
00:18:51
Speaker
But also we can see this is ah This is how fascism works. You know, this is how genocide works. And we haven't learned. We haven't learned from the Holocaust. We haven't learned from the massacres in Rwanda. We haven't learned from genocides in Bosnia.
00:19:05
Speaker
We're not learning about how these things work. and And this sort of, we'll sit back and just say, oh, it's so sad. That's a completely unacceptable response. So yes, bare minimum, we should not be sending arms to genocide heirs.
00:19:19
Speaker
But there is so much more Canada could and should be doing.
Personal Reflections and Activism
00:19:24
Speaker
I'd even say that it's it's incoherent or a proof that we haven't learned from Canada's own history, Canada's own founding, because we certainly have a lot of blood on Canadian hands over the years you know against the Indigenous peoples here.
00:19:41
Speaker
The Fed Libs for years now have been going on about their support for reconciliation. But these two positions seem very logically inconsistent.
00:19:53
Speaker
Yeah, I wanted to ask you, perhaps Carly, because you haven't spoken a few minutes, what the experience of fasting has been like and sort of what helps you get through
00:20:10
Speaker
each day?
00:20:13
Speaker
um i haven't, fasting hasn't been a part of my life in the past. So this is my, I think for the most part, first experience with any kind of fasting.
00:20:24
Speaker
um And I'm, yeah, I'm switching between ah couple of the different levels of fasting that this particular campaign or yeah national call has listed.
00:20:38
Speaker
um i would say fasting has has so far brought a lot of, yeah, meaningful change to my daily life. It's been ah really constant reminder of how I want my life to be and of the ways that um activism and living daily life have been really separate and compartmentalized for me.
00:21:04
Speaker
i think the more that I've become involved in organizing spaces, the more it's felt very disorienting to move between activism and daily life.
00:21:15
Speaker
The urgency of what's happening in Gaza often doesn't feel like something that I should be neatly compartmentalizing. while living life between like actions and campaigns.
00:21:27
Speaker
um One of the reasons I wanted to participate is to bridge the gaps between activism and life. And what its the experience has been is that it has really effectively done that because every day I'm doing this very physical thing that um isn't something that allows me to just become numb to all of the things that are happening and the news that I read every day.
00:21:55
Speaker
Yeah, so it's given me a lot of opportunities to not necessarily alleviate all of the overwhelming despair, but to move with those feelings um into action. And most importantly, I think the action is with others and it's bringing community together. So there aren't really things, aren't strategies that I've had to use to get through each day fasting.
00:22:17
Speaker
um Instead, I think fasting has really given me a lot of strategies and a lot of strength to take meaningful actions and to really feel like my commitment to doing everything I can is being, yeah, really bolstered in this experience.
00:22:36
Speaker
It's felt very connecting to other people who are fasting, the ones who have joined our local fast in Edmonton. And that's been really helpful to see how community strength can really emerge in these kinds of actions that are longer term commitments and they're very immersive and very intense.
00:22:59
Speaker
Yeah, so i would say overall, it hasn't been something I've had to strategize to get through, but it's been something that's really deepened my connection to this kind of action.
00:23:10
Speaker
It's heartening to hear that the community is showing up. I have to ask, I mean, you've been at this section for 16 days now. Has there been, have any of the institutions that really ought to be supporting this sort of thing been showing up? Have you gotten any attention from labor or from any, you know, self-appointed progressive politicians?
00:23:39
Speaker
Well, those are two really different categories. You know, i I think when we do a hasty action ah because of an emergency, we can't expect that people who we're not constantly building a relationship with suddenly show up.
00:23:56
Speaker
I mean, that would be nice, but that's not how the world works. We show up because we hear about things, we're in relationship. And who knows, has Labour even heard about what we're doing? Because, you know, we put out in, just because we put together and Instagram page doesn't mean that everyone who's progressive in the city knows that this is happening. So thank you as media for being part of that process of making sure that people hear about it and are connecting to it.
00:24:23
Speaker
And have organizations shown up? No. Individuals have been amazing. And part of what we're doing is you know we want to make sure we're actually having some tangible benefit right now.
00:24:34
Speaker
And so we've been doing different fundraisers. And people have so far in just over two weeks put in $3,500 that is has already been sent to Gaza, was used to get two water trucks delivered, and also to give money today Eid.
00:24:49
Speaker
to orphans and widows and other people who have zero income and like are really on the brink of starvation so that they were able to buy something from the market and eat today. So you know that takes a collective effort. That's not about 16 people fasting and putting our grocery money. And that's about the people in our lives or the people who, on principle, want to support this, hearing about it and pitching in together.
00:25:12
Speaker
And i I care more about that than about you know progressive politicians. I mean, I think we've seen in the last election that progressive politicians, people like Blake Desjardins didn't get voted back. And that says something about where we are collectively in Canada in this moment.
00:25:34
Speaker
So i everyone who wants to get in touch with us, please do. And if you're a progressive politician, reach out to us. But we're not waiting for politicians to do more than they have already and not been able to do, really.
Persistence in Activism Against Oppression
00:25:48
Speaker
um i think where where we're trying to focus is Is there some way to reactivate the the movement of people who have already been involved, who have felt so despairing, and to give another thing that we can do together?
00:26:02
Speaker
And also to, through our tabling in public and other kinds of public events, reach people who haven't been involved at all, know what's happening, feel terrible about it, are very overwhelmed by it, but don't think there's anything they can do.
00:26:17
Speaker
And this is a bit of a challenge to them to say, actually, there are things you can do, and they don't have to be overwhelming, but we can't just sit in despair. So hopefully we'll reach more and more people over time.
00:26:30
Speaker
Yeah, and and and what you what you mentioned about how you know a lot of politicians, particularly those with the federal NDP who were strong advocates for Palestine, didn't get elected in the past election. We've also seen you know ah initially when the genocide began, there were pretty big marches you know across the country, including here in Edmonton. And um and
00:27:02
Speaker
it's It seems like that, you know, didn't work. I mean, we didn't, right? I mean, the genocide's continuing, right? With more ferocity. The lies of the Israeli state are just becoming more and more brazen and shameless. Yeah.
00:27:25
Speaker
And I'm wondering if this action in particular is born out of the fact that, you know, voting for the NDP and and doing marches isn't working, right? Like, is is this sort of, do you see this as like an escalation of tactics in a way?
00:27:46
Speaker
I definitely have thoughts, but I would love to make sure Carly has a chance to talk as well. and think you should go ahead, Joshua. I know you have lots of thoughts about this.
00:27:56
Speaker
So some of the the despair that people are feeling, I think there's a difference between people whose loved ones are i Gaza and our are terrified and have been terrified on a daily basis since October 2023 about their loved ones surviving.
00:28:15
Speaker
That is a very... you know, the despair that people feel that we haven't stopped a genocide, that's very real. Carly and I aren't Palestinian. We don't have loved ones in Gaza.
00:28:28
Speaker
And I think for people like us who come at this from solidarity, that our despair is more a sense of, um, disempowerment and a sort of ah real hope that collectively people would care enough to to stop a genocide.
00:28:48
Speaker
But the reality is that Palestinians have been living under occupation for over 77 years and have been fighting it since before then, when the waves of immigration first started.
00:29:01
Speaker
And you know they're completely competent resistance fighters who are brilliant strategicians and have tried so many things, so many things over decades, and still the occupation has intensified.
00:29:16
Speaker
So it's it's a bit arrogant for us to think, oh, well, you know we're going to rush in and make a huge difference. I mean, all of this is very predictable. you know There's been ah decades within Canada of support of Israel, ah really since Israel's founding. Of course, we're not going to overturn that overnight.
00:29:35
Speaker
And I understand that people are in despair about feeling nothing we've done has made a difference. But we have made incremental difference and it's not enough. And we have completely failed people in Gaza who have been killed.
00:29:52
Speaker
you know And that's very depressing and we should face that. and But we need to face it maturely. you know I've been an activist my whole life. I'm 54. I've been working on Palestine solidarity for over 35 years now like Of course, it is what it is right now.
00:30:06
Speaker
This is the natural trajectory of any fascist state. And you know we can see in the US, s there's some like trajectory of being a racist state. We can see it in Canada, the trajectory of being a settler colonial state.
00:30:19
Speaker
We don't overturn those things overnight. And it's ah it is a time to really reckon with um our own impatience and expectation that suddenly we would have power when we haven't built it. We haven't taken the the hard work that's necessary to build community power at a time when capitalism keeps us constantly hustling to make an income and distracted with 3,000 things you know,
00:30:47
Speaker
you know COVID affected people's relationships and people's health. And there's so many things that make it really difficult to sustain and build community power.
00:30:57
Speaker
And when I look at what Palestinians did in Edmonton, really, from the very first rally, I think it's been an amazing effort and nobody should feel that it was for vain.
00:31:08
Speaker
um There have been relationships built and huge amounts of money raised locally that have been sent to Gaza. you know, so many people doing community care for Palestinians here, and we should be doing more, absolutely.
00:31:23
Speaker
But we can't just say, oh well, I personally have to do more. We have to think, how can we broaden the commitment to do more and coming at it from nothing we've done has made a difference that will only discourage people.
00:31:35
Speaker
We, you know, the systems want us to believe we can't make a difference and that it's pointless and that we should just give up. But who does that serve? And, you know, sure, we need to constantly be thinking about strategy and what's effective and learning from our mistakes as we go. and But we can't just say, oh, well, nothing makes a difference.
00:31:53
Speaker
You know, nothing, we haven't been able to build enough power yet to force the government to change its course. But we have been able to do things. We have been able to accomplish things within the spheres of power that we have.
00:32:05
Speaker
And certainly before October 2023, my experience was that you know i could stand out on a street with a sign with three other people and get a whole bunch of abuse and no support at all.
00:32:17
Speaker
And it's changed. It has changed. People are seeing Israel's violence who didn't know about it. People are learning about the Nakba who had never heard of that before. And I think that's because Palestinians here in Edmonton have worked so hard, so hard.
00:32:33
Speaker
And just really appreciating those efforts is where I'd like to come from rather than saying, oh, nothing we've done has worked. Nobody did enough. know how do we How do we have some understanding that we're part of a long term struggle and that it will continue to be a long term struggle to end the occupation completely is not going to happen overnight.
00:32:54
Speaker
I think the advice to remain persistent and to keep working collectively to build power is very important because we have seen in the American news recently, a couple of examples of people who, you know, went the other way or went went a very bad way towards, you know, violence and adventurism.
00:33:18
Speaker
i Having people just fall into a pit of despair here is not helpful.
00:33:27
Speaker
more of a comment than a question. Yeah, and I really appreciate what you said, Joshua, because I think it is important to, while acknowledging the scale of what we're up against, to also recognize um achievements the the movement has has made if not ah you know moving the dial on canadian policy towards the region which is always a bit of an insurmountable task at least in the short term um what uh we've done in terms of taking care of each other right and and you know
00:34:06
Speaker
helping people on the ground in Palestine. And in that that can't be understated.
Community Engagement and Public Reaction
00:34:13
Speaker
While at the same time, it can be frustrating that you know massive marches across the country um yeah didn't really get much of substance from the federal government in terms of its policies on the ground. like i suppose um The rhetoric has changed a bit, but Carney signed that letter with Macron and Starmer, warning of unspecified consequences. But Carney's made it clear that he doesn't
00:34:50
Speaker
have any intention of actually doing that. um And yeah, I mean, it can be bleak out there for sure. But yeah, I think there is something to be said even about, um you know, building a sense of community around, you know, like minded people who are appalled by this and um you know doing the small things that are within our grasp that we can do to at least alleviate the suffering on the ground in Palestine.
00:35:30
Speaker
um also not a question. Um, but I, I did want to ask, um, I, I noticed that the news release mentioned that the, the sort of the, uh, the fasters, um, will be, uh, sort of,
00:35:49
Speaker
making you know ah public appearances at certain places in the city. And I'm wondering if you could tell me more about that. Where can people sort of find you hanging out and give you like in-person support?
00:36:06
Speaker
um So far, we Joshua and I have tabled, I think, three times in different locations in the city. So we have spent a couple of hours each time sitting with our banner and table and a number of materials.
00:36:24
Speaker
We printed flyers and had yeah materials out for people to learn from and take with them. um We haven't announced those locations beforehand.
00:36:36
Speaker
It's been, yeah, we've been in locations where we hope to interact with and engage with um as many people as would stop by In the future, i don't think we um, have a solid plan for where exactly we'll be making these appearances.
00:36:54
Speaker
Um, so, and yeah, and how we would announce those things. I think it's something that we're kind of taking as time goes on, although we do have, um, an art build planned for, later this month, I believe the 22nd of June, where we'll be hoping that people come together in community to, um,
00:37:18
Speaker
reconnect with each other, whether if they're local Palestine solidarity activists or yeah local Palestinian community, we want to create a space for people to come together and make art for Gaza and connect with each other and be able to yeah come together in a space where they can make of that space what they need to process feelings and to renew their commitment to doing things in solidarity with Gaza, with people in Gaza.
00:37:50
Speaker
Other than that, I don't believe we have any specific plans in place yet for public appearances, but Joshua might speak to that more. It's also really not about us. And I think I so appreciate being able to work with Carly on this because that's just been so clear that if people want to support what we would like them to do is ask, how can I support people in Gaza?
00:38:15
Speaker
And obviously, the people who we live with and our our loved ones are supporting us because of fast effects, multiple people. But um I think really there's no logistical support or political support that we need from the community.
00:38:30
Speaker
What we do need is for people to ask the difficult question of if I feel despairing, if I feel hopeless and I'm stuck in apathy,
00:38:41
Speaker
Can I reach out and say, look, I'm not doing anything anymore because I gave up and you know that doesn't make anyone a bad person, but we can all take that responsibility to reach out for help and say, i want to get back active again, but I'm not sure how. What are some things I could do? And then we can support you to figure that out.
00:39:00
Speaker
So we're available via our Instagram and we're also we have ah an email and um people can reach out however they want. If they want to support people in Gaza, that's where the support should go, not to the fasters.
00:39:14
Speaker
But we do hope to have a Breaking the Fast together on the final night, June 30th. And I think that's an opportunity if people want to make food for the people who have been fasting, that would be a lovely gesture of support.
00:39:26
Speaker
Again, though, we really want your energy and time to go to making a difference in Palestine.
00:39:34
Speaker
and And what's the reception been like when you have been tabling?
00:39:44
Speaker
I'll ask that to Carly. um The reception has been a lot of people expressing the overwhelming despair that they're feeling about what's happening in Gaza.
00:39:57
Speaker
um We've had people stop by and say that they were unable to even look at the materials we had because of their feelings about what was happening. It was too overwhelming for them to even engage with us at all, except for saying those things.
00:40:14
Speaker
And we've had, that's been ah a somewhat common thing. We have had a lot of people just, and this is very common, just walk by and not look at us at all, which is, I think, just the reality of this kind of action.
00:40:30
Speaker
But there have been a number of like really meaningful engagements that have happened, whether they are other people who are involved in Palestine solidarity work or people who stopped to have really meaningful and sincere conversations about what we were doing and about what's happening in Gaza.
00:40:50
Speaker
And sometimes those people had really different viewpoints, but they have been generally really receptive to what, to receptive to engaging in conversations about it. And that's felt quite meaningful. And um people have taken materials and reached out to us on social media afterwards.
00:41:13
Speaker
And it's been, I think, overall a really positive thing. And people have yeah engage with us in ways that led me anyways to believe that they were going away with maybe either the intention of doing some of the actions we had outlined on our materials. We have like some simple actions that are posted on our Instagram as well, or they have gone away with, um yeah, the intention to maybe like join us or
00:41:43
Speaker
just even just like thinking about things in a different way. I think people have, I've seen people be challenged by some of the things Joshua has, um, some of the ways Joshua has engaged with them. I think it's been really inspiring to see, um, the process of people talking through their own beliefs about what's happening and, um, be validated in, in the beliefs that were, um accurate and, and maybe challenged in the ways that they, yeah, had, had wrong information about what's happening.
00:42:13
Speaker
Um, Yeah, I'd love to hear Joshua's thoughts on his take on that. Well, definitely the best moment I think for both of us was we were tabling outside Canada Place and ah just really randomly a giant group of Palestinian students came by and they were so excited to see the table. They were hooting and hollering and they wanted to take a picture. And ah they were just so excited to see that there are people saying the word Gaza in public, you know, and
00:42:45
Speaker
ah trying to do something, even if it's something small. So that was for sure the best tabling moment for me so far. But there was, I think also, the fast is not Jewish specific. There's Muslims and ah people who grew up in Christian Zionist households, people who grew up in Jewish Zionist households, but I happen to be Jewish. And so, you know, there's nothing on the fast materials that say that, um,
00:43:15
Speaker
that there are Jewish participants, but someone stopped by who said, you know, I have mixed feelings about this because I'm Jewish. And I said, oh, me too.
00:43:25
Speaker
And he was completely shocked. And so that led to a 45 minute conversation between us, Jew to Jew, about the realities of our community's complicity and that it's being done in our name.
00:43:36
Speaker
And I could see him throughout the conversation sort of, um I found him to be very sincere and wholehearted person that he was moving between genuine care about Palestinian suffering and not thinking that it was okay to bomb and starve people.
00:43:55
Speaker
And then going back into the kind of things that our community had taught him about the histories. So blaming Palestinians for Israeli violence. And he would sort of move between those two over and over again in our conversation.
00:44:09
Speaker
And you know I can't change. We're not there to proselytize or to try and you know make someone believe anything. you can't force someone to believe something.
Concluding Thoughts on Activism
00:44:20
Speaker
But I hope that in that conversation, it was a chance for him to question and to maybe hear from another Jewish person that actually, you know, the things that might be the loudest message in our community and this insistence that ah being Jewish means being supportive of ah horrific nation state premised on land theft and murder of Palestinians, that there's another way to be and and to be Jewish.
00:44:48
Speaker
You know, it's not, you don't have to support Zionism to be Jewish. And in fact, you can be deeply Jewish by not supporting Zionism.
00:44:57
Speaker
I hope it wasn't meaningful for him. Oh,
00:45:01
Speaker
I think that's a very good example of how we can still make progress, how things are not a brick wall, things are not hopeless. I think what you had to say earlier, Joshua, was very incisive about how if we are failing right now, it is because we have not successfully built enough power in the past.
00:45:22
Speaker
And that if people are feeling powerless today, the best thing to do is to go out and build power together.
00:45:31
Speaker
I hope so. I mean, that there's a part of, I think, the the despair people are feeling is that when genocide starts happening, whether in Palestine or anywhere else, a rapid response is needed to protect life and stop the killing.
00:45:44
Speaker
Right. That's a like a very basic human understanding. And yet building community power takes a long time. And, you know, trying to get politicians to do anything is often very incremental and slow.
00:45:58
Speaker
And that's, I think, that the challenge of a dear Palestinian friend who grew up in Kan Yunus said, I'm racing against genocide and time. And i really that's really stuck with me, you know that we are racing against time, and yet political work, movement work is so slow and incremental.
00:46:20
Speaker
And that's that's the the agonizing part of this, is that we haven't moved fast enough. to address ah a dire emergency.
00:46:36
Speaker
And yeah i have no more questions. Yeah, I just want to ask if ah people who are listening to this want to join you in your fast and in and one of the several ways that they can, how can they connect with you?
00:46:58
Speaker
They can connect with us on our Instagram page, yegfastforgaza. In there, we have signups available for people who want to join the fast.
00:47:10
Speaker
um They can send us messages through Instagram or email if they have any questions about either joining the fast or ways to navigate taking action through the despair that people are feeling.
00:47:25
Speaker
Or if they have any other questions or just things they want to share with us, that's so probably the best way to reach out is through our Instagram or our email, which is linked through our Instagram as well.
00:47:39
Speaker
Thanks so much for ah joining us today, Joshua and Carly, and for keeping people's attention rightfully focused on the situation in Gaza.
00:47:53
Speaker
Thanks again. It's really nice to have, you know, I think part of what's been happening is a total media blockade really of news or trying to make people feel that nothing is happening and nothing can be done. And it's it's really nice that you responded to our media release and have had us on the show. So thanks.
00:48:10
Speaker
Of course. And, you know, I suspect if you were fasting for, I don't know, Ukraine, a lot of mainstream media outlets that don't have any interest in this would be inundating you with requests for interviews.
00:48:28
Speaker
So it's my pleasure, of course, to amplify your message and, uh, Let people know about the ah great, important work the two of you and many others, of course, are doing locally.
00:48:45
Speaker
Our pleasure and our honor. Thanks for coming on the show.