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Cheeky Fun with Baroque B*tches Podcast
859 Plays8 months ago
ART FUN with the hosts of the Baroque B**ches Podcast!
How much fun can you have on a podcast? I dunno but this was hella fun. Join this wildly ranging art, life, and raunch conversation to discover what you did not want to know but, really, c'mon, you actually really did want to know.
Art Scholarship for the People!!!
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Transcript
Introduction and Banter
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to something rather than nothing. Creator and host Ken Volante. Editor and producer Peter Bauer.
00:00:17
Speaker
I want to like excuse my puffy jacket in advance because it can be a little... Why do you have to excuse a puffy jacket? Because it's like... Like, I come from breakdance and we're bombers era, like I'm a bad age and you're gonna apologize for a puffy jacket. Get the fuck out of here. It's cool.
00:00:37
Speaker
No, it's just like fucking four degrees here. And I record in the garage because I'm loud and my kids, they got to sleep. And so I can just get a little swishy like in the recording. So I was
Art History with a Twist
00:00:51
Speaker
noticing it in ours last week. I'm like, fuck, why do I gotta move so much? Just sit still. It's like, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush.
00:00:59
Speaker
I wish they would invent a jumping mic that kept everything calibrated for me if I'm jumping around. So, you know, I know Providence, Rhode Island, like that, you know, God help. God help us if we, me and Chelsea ever get together or it's going to be tough to figure out how to get each other, not picking up on each other's mics. Oh, yeah. But Chole, you're ready?
00:01:28
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, I'm good. Three, two, one, click. All right. It's a thing. We got it down, kind of. We like to think we do. Is anybody going to take a stab and tell the listeners what's going to go on here? I mean, anybody want to even take? I'm not going to. Either one of you, Raquel or Chelsea, visitors from the Baroque Bitches podcast. Any guess at what's going to happen here? Somebody take a stab.
00:01:57
Speaker
I think this is a little bit of a fresh take on art history, art history gossip, mainly the gossip part of it for sure. And getting into what art means for us and not being so like,
00:02:19
Speaker
academic and like, yeah, we're kind of probably going to be a little bit of on the gem side of the show. And I mean that in like the best way possible. Oh, I I want to agree. And I do agree. I don't know how forcefully to agree on the dumb, but I know. So for me and on the philosophy, I do an art and philosophy show, something other than nothing here. And for me, it's
00:02:46
Speaker
If you put it up to academics and you would think the same way, you're both smart, you put things up to academics, it ain't going to sound right. I'm talking to people, I'm talking to musicians, I'm talking to exotic dancers, I'm talking to Baroque bitches.
00:03:01
Speaker
singers, opera singers. And it's philosophy for the people. And I would say your art history for maybe kind of the more dirty-minded, but people in general, your art history for people, right? Yeah, yeah. We're certainly trying to be. I think that in general, things have gone like the landscape of what
00:03:29
Speaker
an art history podcast looks like is changing. I mean, just even an art history lesson is changing as, you know, everything becomes less proper and everybody has more access to this shit. Like it's just
00:03:45
Speaker
going and we're hoping for to kind of bring a low brow quality to the historically really high brow area. You know, we did both go to art school. We do have the privilege of having like a background in education, but we both kind of I think even during that time, we're like, this is kind of bullshit. We were making fun of it the whole time. The whole time. Why didn't he talk about his time with the hookers more?
00:04:15
Speaker
The three of us in the back of this class, the three of us, imagine that, nevermind a podcast, the three of us in the back of the class, two casualties, two people when they made it through just because of.
00:04:25
Speaker
basic disciplinary
Personal Journeys and Identity
00:04:26
Speaker
control over the classroom issues, but I, no, I mean, I think it's funny, you know, like, all right, so it's smart stuff, right? And it's art stuff and it's philosophy. And geez, if you listen to the way it's told sometimes, you'd have a hard time believing any of these are human beings with the passions, desires and fuck ups and drug problems or whatever they did well. Like everybody's a human and there's an exalted piece where it's like,
00:04:55
Speaker
You know, uh, it is boring as fuck. So this episode is not going to be boring as fuck. That's our, that's our, um, but, but I want to stop one second. I want to, before we get too far in, uh, the, both of you, I ran into the Baroque bitches podcast and I've been listened to it since and we just,
00:05:13
Speaker
you know, connected via Instagram. I'm like, let's do art stuff because I just, you know, sometimes you find something you love, you jump right in. But tell the listeners because you're newer to this podcasting thing. Tell folks who you are and what you're up to.
00:05:31
Speaker
Oh, um, so, you know, I have, Ken, do you have kids use it? You told me I have kids, right? Three, three, three children. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And so I just had my second, my daughter eight months ago, my second child and
00:05:50
Speaker
I don't know how parenthood was for you when you first went there. But I think for a lot of people, especially artistic types, I mean, we're kind of part of a crew that's not doing the kids thing anymore. And my identity for a long time was going to late night shows, doing my bohemian lifestyle. And then you have kids, and those two things don't really fit together.
00:06:17
Speaker
Um, and so for a long time, like I just found it really isolating. A lot of my friends wouldn't reach out to me because they thought I was busy, which I was. And it's like, how do we sort of reconnect and where do I, what's my, you know, my purpose now that I don't have
00:06:35
Speaker
the gift of time because it has to be for the kids. And I've been navigating that for like four years. And a girlfriend of mine has a podcast called Too Scary Didn't Watch. And it's just a horror movie recap podcast. And she started it.
00:06:53
Speaker
It's really really fun podcast. You guys should check it out and she started it right around the same time I had my son and now it's this huge thing and you know, she really just inspired me like you can kind of make something out of nothing and this is something where like it though it does take a lot of time because it is based in research and work sort of like
00:07:18
Speaker
in taking in a lot to get a small amount of information that's interesting or we find interesting or weird or funky. And it's still able to be done in these small bits of time that lead to big amounts of progress for us. And so I got this idea. I think I want to do a podcast. I love gossip podcasts. I love
00:07:44
Speaker
weird facts about art history. And I had a professor in college for history who gave us a lesson on Thomas Jefferson and had us read his letters to one of his slaves he was having a sexual affair with and children with. And I was like,
00:08:05
Speaker
You know, obviously I want to know more about this. I mean, if anybody likes Law and Order SVU, you know what I'm talking about. You like the down and dirty details. Yeah. And so I thought, you know, is this done in an art space and looking and looking, I didn't really find anything. I mean, sure, there's, you know, accessible art history podcasts out there, but this is just something
00:08:28
Speaker
We think it's a little different and reached out to Chelsea because she's part of my tried and true crew that I've had for a long time. And I knew she'd be reliable and dependable because she always has been. And she's like, fuck yeah, let's do this thing. Obviously, we're doing this. There's no question. There's no schedule. It's fine. We'll figure it. We'll fit it in. It's fine. And I don't have a lot of nice free time to be doing crazy stuff and crazy research.
00:08:57
Speaker
Yeah.
The Name and Artistic Identity
00:08:58
Speaker
Chelsea, Chelsea, riff riff on it, too. What's what's what's the show? What you've been up to? Put it together together. Yeah. Why Baroque? Why Baroque bitches? And yeah, you came up with a name. Yeah, you can't already tell. Well, I think I think Baroque, you can really think about the play off of Baroque could also be broke. And if you're talking about art, you're talking about being broke, probably a little bit. Yeah.
00:09:26
Speaker
Yeah, so I thought it was a little play of words of we're broke bitches, but we're also let's pretend to be classy about it. We love the Baroque period. It's one of our one of our first episodes was on Louis XIV and the cult of Versailles and Louis XIV. Oh my gosh.
00:09:46
Speaker
all time stalker. It's a really stinky episode. It's a stinky. It's a stinky. It was stinky. Very stinky. And very gross, but also like hiding in this high fanciness of you have to be, you have to have the right embellishment on your lapel or else your cast out.
00:10:09
Speaker
And gossip was the biggest thing in that era when it came to the upper class and the king's courts and all that stuff. It was all about gossip. It was all about who did what, who's sleeping with who. There's people writing to each other secretly in different codes of, hey, oh my gosh, I saw the king with so and so. And what do you think about that? I think I can get my ass in over there.
00:10:36
Speaker
Now we're interested. We're picking in here. Yeah. So the Baroque era, I mean, and then of course all of the art, you're talking about Velazquez, Caravaggio. I mean, these guys are all problems.
00:10:52
Speaker
And I just feel like the intensity of the artwork itself is so obvious that it's all drama. So that's what they're interested in is the drama. You can see the location of the light source, the uses of
00:11:10
Speaker
tones is creating more drama for a situation that's already really dramatic. You don't need to add more, but you got to because you're in the Baroque era. That's what's that what makes it fun. Yeah. Yeah. So I thought Baroque bitches, of course, adding bitches in there a little bit. We got to weed out the people that just so they know up front what we're about, like we're not trying. It's kind of like the subtle tone of what. Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:38
Speaker
Yeah. And reading about even comments on like other people's podcasts, like the art history babes or, um, you know, like there will be always be that uppity person that's like, Oh, they said bitch. And it's like, yeah. You've denigrated, you've denigrated God. You've, you've besmirched the Holy.
00:12:02
Speaker
Like how dare they, I really like it, that they said bitch. It's like, okay, well, they dare you to pray for me. Like, just do it then.
00:12:12
Speaker
I dare you. Sounds like a deer. We get a deer right there from from from Chelsea. Now, so great, everybody. And we'll get into this episode here that we're doing. We're already in, you know, it's like that. But I wanted to mention something funny about because I think about in a conversation like this and I get to admit for myself, like,
00:12:41
Speaker
I'm an artist and I've studied art, but there's funny things about my background. One is I never really saw myself as practicing in making things in the fullest except for the last five years of my life.
00:12:58
Speaker
Which includes a time where I'm doing a podcast. I think what's also really interesting You know kind of come from a working-class city working-class background as a little kid I was interested in Oh a billion things related to art my comic books great movies all these type of things so I was always like just wild for art but um, I have never
00:13:23
Speaker
Ever ever taken an art class for example art history art class anything and What's also interesting? That's not to say I haven't studied art because the one class formal class I ever took was in the philosophy department and it was aesthetics in the philosophy of art which obviously stuck in my head like as an idea for 20 something years and then I've like
00:13:47
Speaker
the podcast is basically just like let's explore anything but like what the what the fucks art like what is it supposed to do if like we dedicate our whole spirit and being to it like what is it like like for a flosser like like I don't you know sometimes I ask that question I'm like like what is art and they're like I don't know and then they're like an existential crisis of being like I've fucking done this for like 50 years and like I don't we have no idea why
00:14:16
Speaker
No, I totally get that. And I yeah, the like the what is art conversation is something that I think comes up in all all art classrooms or all bars. And I always try to simplify the best I can if like I have I teach art class. So sometimes my students will be like,
00:14:44
Speaker
what is art exactly? And you got to like kind of parse it together of the root meaning of the word art is to fit together. And what the hell are you fitting together? I don't know anything you want.
Velasquez and Art's Cultural Impact
00:14:59
Speaker
And to me, art is about about freedom. And
00:15:04
Speaker
artistic license is like a really big deal for me personally because everybody has one. So that's kind of the beauty of it is that every single person has some kind of artistic license and fitting something together. You don't need a fancy education to do this thing. Oh no, you gotta save your money.
00:15:24
Speaker
You need to be human, right? Well, you need to be human, right? Yeah. And we have YouTube now, so we're good. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah. There's a question hanging in the background. And I guess I'm going to try to wrangle this thing throughout. It is something rather than I'll try to wrangle it. What is this, before we all embark on this, of philosophy and what, what is this episode? What are we doing?
00:15:54
Speaker
this episode right now. Yeah. Like, what are we going to do? I mean, I heard you dug up some saucy stuff for one. We did hear from a little birdie and I think that little birdie is named Ken and that you're a Diego Velazquez fan. Kenny.
00:16:15
Speaker
Yes, yes. I was going too personal with it. I got too close, too quick. I was trying to give you a nickname. No, no, no. Sorry. I got nicknames. I work in a labor movement. I work in a labor movement. I got nicknames. But I talked about, you asked me about art, and I said, and I was in high school, and I was introduced to Velasquez. So it was the first time I ever,
00:16:43
Speaker
Studied or heard of this and the other pieces too. I didn't tell you this because in the message I figured I tell you in the show So I went to Spain
00:16:50
Speaker
A few months after I started studying Velasquez, now nobody, I mean this was, I was 17 years old, completely out of the ordinary, but I scraped together any money that I could and I asked people for money and then paid it off later, but the huge motivation was I found out that there were no guys coming on this that were going on. And there were 12 juniors and senior females, and I'm like,
00:17:18
Speaker
If you're going to go to Spain, I mean, I was not the most socially adept kid. I was smart, though. Right. So I said, if there's 12 of my classmates going for a month in Spain, which I heard is a pretty cool country, if I can do this, I'm going to do it. So I went to Spain and I saw Velazquez in Spain. So that said there was.
00:17:40
Speaker
17 years old. And that's Velasquez for me, but Velasquez is a Baroque bitch. Velasquez is a Baroque bitch. And you know what's like, you know, we have art education and we have art background and we like art. And I think a lot of people like art and even a lot of visual artists, like
00:17:58
Speaker
You don't take the time to dig into who these people are, but you want to kind of know, like it's fun to learn about them. So we came up with a little offering of some sort for you. I've been around for a few years with the podcast. I appreciate it. It's very democratic and accessible form, but I appreciate the offer.
00:18:21
Speaker
Well, we're coming. So we call this two T's and a lie. And it's just played like two truths and a lie. So I'm going to go over three T's and see if you can guess which one's the lie. Are you ready? I'm as ready as I can be. All right.
00:18:45
Speaker
And so, T1, Diego Velasquez's work is so controversial and has fallen victim to being attacked with a meat cleaver. T number two, Diego Velasquez painted a portrait of a pope that incited such a strong reaction, the pope actually hit him with his staff
00:19:09
Speaker
or T number three, one of Diego Velasquez's most famous paintings features a woman who would go on to marry her uncle.
00:19:21
Speaker
So if you need me to repeat it, just let me know. No, no, I I excluded one. One is one is one is so one is so. Yeah, one is so one is.
00:19:42
Speaker
I have that as tea. So I'm between two and three. And this is not like the one you would call in. You can't call landline. No lifeline. You see my hands are up. I don't have my phone. Now you've got into the deepest psychological issue that I have. A few minutes into the show, the deepest psychological issue, I might be wrong. No.
00:20:10
Speaker
I'm going to say the only answer I can give, and it's the strongest answer I can give, is I believe two is the lie. Ding, ding, ding, ding. You're right. You got it. I thought it was too extreme. I thought it was too extreme. So you would think so, right? Yeah, go ahead, Joel.
00:20:32
Speaker
Pope Innocent actually liked Velazquez's portrait of him. He liked it a lot and Pope Innocent did not like sitting for portraits, but he did really like his portrait. Michelangelo was the artist that Pope Julius II struck with his staff after he refused to show him his sketches.
00:20:52
Speaker
We call him Beatty Sticky Pope. Beatty Sticky Pope. Yeah, Pope Julius was not the nicest guy. And he had a deal with Michelangelo who was also kind of crazy too. I mean, yeah. Hey, I want to tell you. I love Michelangelo for the record. Yes.
00:21:09
Speaker
Thank you. I wanted to just interrupt. I want to give I was just a little shout out for a New Year's Eve. I was out at the Met for the first time in my life in New York City. And my partner, Jenny, we're accompanied by a Canara Ely opera singer, Soprano.
00:21:28
Speaker
And we went into the man we're talking about things, but I was talking about the the Velazquez and the cleaver and I believe it's the Venus. Yeah, this painting in the National Gallery in London.
00:21:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's in London and it's actually been attacked twice. Twice. So the first time a gal attacks it with a meat cleaver as part of his demonstration for women's suffrage. Yes. Having to deal with like the idealization of a female image in the painting. It's actually the only nude that survived that he did. But yeah, like people just love
00:22:15
Speaker
All the rich royal people just loved him. And Velazquez actually did a lot of nudes that was very controversial. It was not cool to be having ladies in your studio naked. Are nudes hot or are nudes hot? We don't know. So there's no.
00:22:39
Speaker
The Venus is the only one and poor girl is out there in the elements. And so she was she was just she got cleaved more recently. There were climate
Art as Expression
00:22:50
Speaker
change activists and who took little hammers and keeps getting attacked. Yeah, I mean, everybody's like poor.
00:22:59
Speaker
She's just trying to be here. She's just trying to live. She's trying to live. She's got her little butt out. Yeah. There must be some proper behavior in a museum, even for us. I mean, there must be some, I mean, cleaver. I mean, you know, there is a role. Like, don't attack the art, please. Like, you know, if you can help it. Tiffany, don't touch it unless you're supposed to. But, you know. Respect it. Yes. Yes.
00:23:28
Speaker
Yeah, you got to just respect it a little bit. But the white walls and all that, we're not the ones keeping quiet at a museum. I think we even actually have been asked to quiet down in a museum or two. I could see that. I haven't listened to the show. I haven't listened to the show.
00:23:53
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, so I'm glad that you enjoyed it. We tried our best to dig up some tea. It was fun. He didn't, there wasn't a whole lot about him, but there definitely was a lot. That was my guess. But if I knew there was somebody to like,
00:24:08
Speaker
They get out. That's why that's why I asked you and um, no, I think a lot about the Velasquez in, you know classical Painting but anytime I think of Velasquez if and I love that this happens for me My mind immediately thinks of Francis Bacon cuz oh, yeah So I love how my head goes like cuz I
00:24:32
Speaker
For me, as much as I adore Velasquez, it was really kind of the one I'm intro, introed in. And there's, you know, it's not my period where I like understand it all. I get like super jazz compared to like some other type of movements. But seeing that it immediately flips for me too with the bacon stuff. So I see him at the same time and it messes with my head.
00:24:53
Speaker
Yeah, that bacon painting is like startling. It's really haunting. I mean, once you see it, it's just something that can't leave your mind. And you're asking like, what is art? And I think like things like that, that just can be like,
00:25:11
Speaker
so haunting and individualized to different artists. Those type of things really come out of the deepest avenues of your mind, and that one is really, really impactful. But we're also kind of of the mind that art doesn't always need to be so impactful. It can be so many different
00:25:34
Speaker
parts of self-expression. And I was thinking about this because you had asked, what is art? And me and my son and my husband, we're all neurodivergent. And part of what that looks like for us, which really just means we just have an atypical way of interpreting the world. And what that means for my son is that
00:25:59
Speaker
he had like a challenge learning verbal communication. And so we're like, dude, let's just get this kid like as many ways to communicate as possible. Like, you know, of course, crayons, paint,
00:26:15
Speaker
paper, everything like that, tambourines, mini pianos, easels, collecting grass and leaves and shouting in the middle of a grocery store, making cash registers out of cardboard boxes, dancing in the middle of the kitchen, clapping, anything you can think of.
00:26:35
Speaker
just all these different avenues to get our thoughts and feelings out, that's really what art is. It can be literally anything and the inner trappings of our minds and just finding ways to manifest them any way we can. But it doesn't have to be that deep, like I was saying. In art school, I made paintings of four locos and I made a lithograph of four locos. I had that one.
00:27:03
Speaker
I have that one. It's in my bathroom. I have that one. I think you don't know that I have that one. This is an episode here. I got your like a jar in my bathroom.
00:27:14
Speaker
That's the best part, you get to sit with it for a little bit. That's a huge compliment. That's the one we use and sit in a lot. I think art gets a weird reputation because a lot of people think artistic talent comes from like the planets aligning perfectly on a full moon.
00:27:36
Speaker
Or you got to take some psychedelics to be truly connected to your soul to create the best art. And all that sounds fun, but talent comes from like, I say the work part of artworks, if you're dealing with representational stuff. And we're all born with creativity. We all got cool ideas about something. And talent's just an acquired skill, you know, just like you could be a super talented barista.
00:28:02
Speaker
But you started out spilling everywhere and like bumping into that guy that keeps bumping into you and forgetting orders and feeling horrible. Yeah, learning anything takes practice.
00:28:18
Speaker
Even getting into thinking and talking about art, all of it takes practice. We're still not the most rehearsed when it comes to the podcast. I think our new art now is figuring out storytelling and how to really curate a good story.
00:28:35
Speaker
which is really an art in itself and challenging in a way I didn't think it would be. Chelsea, you've always had a really strong art practice though. She's just obsessed. You can't get her to stop making stuff. Yeah, I do. I mean, I'm good at... I gotta say, I'm pretty good at painting. Don't ask me what eight times six is, but other than that...
00:29:00
Speaker
I still don't know. I still don't know. I'm not gonna lie. Seriously, Chelsea, pause. No, no. I've seen your paintings and yeah, beautiful. Oh, thank you. No, no, so wait.
00:29:16
Speaker
you know like i when i like when i like stuff that i see and here's stuff that i like i'm just gonna like say it out but no tell tell us tell us about your stuff and yeah um i do i do love painting i love painters i love teaching painting
00:29:31
Speaker
And it is one of the only skills that I'm like truly confident in. I'm like, I got this. This is what I got. And again, that eight times six thing is true. I don't remember. I actually like drawing more. I'm really good at both of those. But I've definitely done that ever since I was a kid.
00:29:59
Speaker
I didn't vibe with sports at all. School wasn't my thing unless it involved crafts or history. I think writing is cool too, but I was raised on TV. Man, I need visuals. I got to have pictures. I'm sorry, writers. You got to illustrate that stuff for me.
00:30:19
Speaker
I think I remember I like vividly remember too like when I was five or something dumb I was watching Ren and Stimpy on Nickelodeon and I asked my dad like are these characters real are these guys real in the world and he's like no no no somebody drew them
00:30:35
Speaker
I'm like, stop. That's a job? What? I would do that. I would do
Artists' Responsibilities
00:30:41
Speaker
that now. And my family, you know, take me to art museums. I was really inspired, blah, blah, blah. And of course, being a painter is kind of like a lifestyle choice. And it does come with a prize. Yeah, you got to, unless you've got like great connections and you're really skilled at communications and money minded people,
00:31:04
Speaker
be a painter, you'll sell, you can live off the selling your paintings 100%. And the Gen Z's actually are amazing. I got faith in those guys. They know how to brand themselves. I'm noticing that too.
00:31:19
Speaker
I've got some teenagers in my class and whenever I have a question on technology of like, okay, how do I get this picture off this phone and onto this tablet and this size and this aspect ratio? They're like, got you done. I'm like, can I just, wow, all right. Awesome. You guys are going to do the thing. You guys are going to do something.
00:31:42
Speaker
I mean, I'm into that, too, as like any type of where you see an emerging like glitch are emerged for me in the way my brain works. I'm like, yeah, I'll get that. Whoever is going down that trail, I'll follow it. I'll follow that trail because it just makes it makes it makes sense to me visually. All right. So you so how's the one more podcast? One more about the podcast. Sure.
00:32:12
Speaker
How's the how's the podcast going? What are people saying about your zany stories of penises and penises and syphilis and malfeasance in crime and stealing and underage? What are people saying about this?
00:32:40
Speaker
I mean, we're not in the know of how this is supposed to go. We're really creating something out of nothing here. But we think it's going really well. We've gotten a lot of really good feedback and messages on Instagram that are just like, keep going. Please don't stop it.
00:33:04
Speaker
Thank you. Other people's mind are also in the gutter, I think, too. Yeah, they get it. And those are the ones. Those are one of us. Yeah, more. One of us. One of us. One of us.
00:33:17
Speaker
But those only fans, those only fans account can get pretty expensive. So I mean, this if you haven't listened to the show, folks, this gets some some good stuff. I mean, you'll end up being disturbed after a couple of them about, you know, what humans are capable of. You might ruin your favorite artist. I'm sorry. Oh, you know what? These people need to be put on blast like we can't apologize for the things that these people did like.
00:33:43
Speaker
It's not our fault. It might help you understand the artwork more than if you see them as a relatable human being with a lot of problems and issues in their family clearly and affairs and all this stuff that maybe you might be going through too. Who knows? We're all human going through some weird, weird stuff sometimes.
00:34:11
Speaker
And you might be like, oh, that's the this is the guy that did the thing. I get it now. I can see. I have the number one takeaway. I do have a number one takeaway. And this is not a PSA, but syphilis is is very treatable. Very very. I mean, I heard that point and I'm like, I know I was I was inclined that way. I was inclined that way to anything like that. I'm just voted a doctor and treat.
00:34:38
Speaker
Yes, but yeah, it is it even in it. Even later, is it developed? You can still do something about it. Yeah. Yeah. See your doctor. See your doctor. It's out there. It's out there. If you have sex with people, go get checked. That's all we got to say. I mean, there's so many people have fallen casualty to syphilis in art history.
00:35:07
Speaker
I have a philosopher's syphilis story. Let's hear it. It's a famous one and it is verifiable. Frederick Nietzsche. This queen is so beautiful, artistic, and mad, but the simple story is that
00:35:36
Speaker
Nietzsche was it was it was famous for writing the spokes are through stir which was essentially a Bible of the modern world God is dead, you know Nihilism yeah, it's important for us to Create values in the absence of God in the the spokes are a to stir is actually modeled on the Gospels both in number and an exposition a lot of people don't know that so it's modeled on New Testament and all that Nietzsche
00:36:05
Speaker
Towards the end of his lives had been going to brothels and had contracted syphilis and he was a wild explosive mind, but then, you know, you see this development where strange things occur, is it part of the thinking? And Nietzsche in this great scene is on the streets and he goes up to a horse and hugs the horse's neck.
00:36:31
Speaker
and says, you know, I feel you, I love you, I am you. Like he has some beautiful connection, runs into his apartment, starts playing the piano and screaming, I am Zarathustra.
00:36:46
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. And, uh, but, uh, Nietzsche, uh, Nietzsche, uh, was, uh, and again, this going back even into the 19th century syphilis, if you address it as is treatable and it can be not react to the, all you talked about all the organs that are affected and everything. I am.
00:37:12
Speaker
Take and take in the vowels everybody if you are having any issue Yeah, and that's that brings up the the little Al Capone tidbit that I think that was in the mayonnaise episode with the with himself and I brought up Al Capone because he is like the dumbest gangster
00:37:34
Speaker
I don't know how he got all this recognition, but he was so stupid and he really was. He was a really dumb guy and he got syphilis because he's going to brothel as you do and totally treatable at that time. They had penicillin and all of his homies were like, listen, just
00:37:56
Speaker
Your dick is leaking. Go, go, go see a guy. He's like, you know, I'm good. That's fine. I'm like, and you keep you keep sleeping with hookers. Can we not maybe? No. And then towards the end of his life, he was there was like a famous notable moment where he was trying to fish for fish in his swimming pool.
00:38:22
Speaker
and really serious about it. He had his gear and everything and was fishing in the pool and all of his gangster buddies are like, what do we do? Okay. Strap him down and make him tank the thing. That's what I say. Come on, hindsight's 20-20, but geez.
00:38:41
Speaker
Wow, you're right. And so, not to perseverate on that particular component, but I just wanted to tell you, as far as, I'm not sure if it was your number one takeaway, but I think you've improved the public health. Okay, wonderful. We'll take it.
00:39:00
Speaker
This is mostly about your show and chatting about your show. What's coming up? I've seen the Giorgio O'Keeffe and the Egon Shilei. Oh my God. Egon. Egon. Oh my God. Egon. Egon.
00:39:21
Speaker
That's right. But Georgia O'Keeffe, what else? What else are you going to look into? There's got to be a lot of tea.
00:39:34
Speaker
Yeah, so we don't want to give away too much. We did go over half of her life. And I think the first half of her life, I can really empathize with her and relate to her and what she goes through. And the second half of her life, I really just lose all sort of sympathy for her situation.
Critique and Controversy
00:39:57
Speaker
In the New Mexico era.
00:39:59
Speaker
The New Mexico era. Moving to the Southwest. Yeah, so we're calling the part two Karen goes west. I know a lot of people love Georgia O'Keeffe and there's a lot of narrative of her just being like this very positive impact on New Mexico and the Southwest.
00:40:21
Speaker
We're going to maybe open some eyes about the reality of how people actually feel, how the locals feel. We have a really a good long time friend of ours who's going to come on the pod and help us with that. I think it'll be a new way to look at the work. I've never been a fan of Georgia O'Keeffe.
00:40:49
Speaker
after doing all the research, because I was leading this lesson and I was just thinking, I knew I didn't like this bitch. So I don't want to give too much away, provocative, provocative in the sense, and I, and I, I, I, I got to tell you, I am very, very interested on, you know, some of the take of what other folks feel about it, uh, in, in, in the area and you know, um,
00:41:16
Speaker
And so yet that I'd love to hear about that. And I don't know too much about Georgia O'Keeffe. I have a fascination with the locale of the Southwest. And when I went to New Mexico, I had never been. And a couple of years ago, I went twice and I can tell you this, and I've talked to others about it. There was something in the wind that felt so different. I don't know if it was the sensitivity as an artist that I had, but I'm like,
00:41:44
Speaker
I get why some people are tapping in down here. I don't have the slightest way to explain it, but I'm like, there's something in the wind here that's different, mysterious, a little bit dark too. I don't know what it was. Totally. It's a sacred place. I think Chelsea and I have both said, we're not religious, but we believe in ghosts.
00:42:07
Speaker
We totally all day all day on the ghosts all day We tap into like our surroundings and feeling things but those are sacred places that have a lot of loaded history and You know the desert is a really special place and and I you know we
00:42:31
Speaker
even learning about people stepping out of the airport in New Mexico and seeing a big sign that says, O'Keeffe Country, that is just so wrong. Yeah. It's a sign. But I understand the intrigue and the mystique, so we talk about
00:42:52
Speaker
how to go to a place and what being respectful looks like versus just ravaging it and taking it as your own. And we'll dive deep into that in the episode. But there's also other spicy tea that's a little less charred to sort of give a palate cleanser at the end too. So it's going to be a good one. It's going to be a really good one.
00:43:21
Speaker
Thank you for that. No, I get excited. Maybe there's a perverse way of thinking about things, but when I heard about the show and I was listening to the show, I'm like, okay, who's on my list? And who do I leave off my list because I don't want to know? And I'm like, wow, that's okay.
00:43:41
Speaker
I'm gonna be like you know it's like uh you know like sometimes you find out things about something of course everybody talks the way culture works right now I'm not getting into all that all I'm saying is like in my own head I can say when it comes to when you hear something about artists and
00:43:59
Speaker
like and when you fucking check out and why you don't check out like me as an appreciator or a critic why don't check out in other areas and for me I had the instance just recently which was like twist in my brain was
00:44:17
Speaker
Prince is treatment of Sinead O'Connor and physically abusive towards her. And for me having the iconography of who Prince is as a genius and morphing of gender and all these type of things wherein the ideas brought in is like, you know, Prince is this genius.
00:44:37
Speaker
and dealing with this fucking misogyny and his physical assault of Sinead O'Connor for me was a hero and like all of a sudden like I'm all mixed mixed up about it but I think underneath like what you're saying is like
00:44:54
Speaker
You know, I think if you look at art and say, all right, this artist has put out this thing in the world, and I don't give a fuck at how it was launched, right? Like that painting, I'm just looking at it, and then there's the reality underneath. If you're looking at something that is tainted or comes out of a source that is unsavory, like the artist, then I can't look at it anymore. I can't listen to it anymore.
00:45:24
Speaker
That's what I kind of feel about artistic license of how much of a big deal it is for me, but you also have to be responsible for it too. You can put out anything you want, anything, but you have to be responsible for it. A really good example is one of my favorite artists, just because for the shock factor, is of course Paul McCarthy and his exhibition of the giant butt plug.
00:45:52
Speaker
in France, in a palace in France. And he ended up getting punched in the face for that from a Frenchman that did not appreciate that type of artwork, clearly. And it's like, well, that's the responsibility of, yeah, you could get punched in the face for it. But if you believe in it enough, then you got to risk it. Yeah, you got to risk it.
00:46:19
Speaker
that's a strong reaction for whatever size but plug particularly when it's away from you and it's played that's all that's pretty huge though i think it was like two it was like two stories high or something it was like bigger than the pyramid it's ginormous it's huge yeah you can't i'm saying it's on the approach it's not a it's not being
00:46:40
Speaker
It's it's there and it's not. It looks like your Christmas tree. So the question is, can you look at Christmas trees the same after looking at them? No, mine's still up downstairs and I get it. I get to take my Christmas. It's lit up. There's a nice strong ear. Does it give you a little weird feeling? I haven't gone downstairs yet after this episode. When I get downstairs,
Humor and Horror in Art
00:47:05
Speaker
I'm going to have to put that Christmas tree in the front lawn.
00:47:12
Speaker
Oh man. Well, I'll be back at its natural habitat. But no, I do think that, um, like what you're saying is like having the, and having the responsibility to look at these guys, because a lot of what history has done has downplayed some of these actions or justified it. And we talk about that in a gun Sheila have like, you know, he was a pedophile and just because it was okay at the time,
00:47:38
Speaker
I don't think it was okay at the time. That's why they changed the age. That's why the laws are different now. We knew it wasn't all right. And just because it was happening doesn't make it okay. And I don't think it's our responsibility anymore to justify artists' acts to make ourselves feel better about
00:48:01
Speaker
liking something. We can look at something like Prince and his image is separated enough from who he was as a person that nobody knew about that. And so we can't feel guilty about liking the music
00:48:20
Speaker
then, but knowing that we know now, I agree with you. I'm not somebody personally who cannot carry that with me in the now. I can't listen to certain artists anymore. I can't look at Aegon Sheila the same way, but that speaks to who I am as a person. I'm a very sensitive person.
00:48:40
Speaker
But I think these things can still exist as phenomenons that happen for an art movement and as influence to others. And we can still learn from them for what not to do and what not to justify and what not to allow for in a current landscape.
00:49:03
Speaker
Yeah, we got to take the lesson. We got to be okay with it. Maybe we don't put on prints. Maybe 1999 every now and again, but you know. Well, you know, like songs like Kiss. I mean, it's the thing. But part of it, for me, I think overall is kind of like.
00:49:19
Speaker
a deeper understanding of what happened to me with Sinead because when Sinead became huge, you know, I was 18, 19 years old. She had a really hard time. It was an incredible childhood.
00:49:39
Speaker
I had never seen in my entire life, and this is in the 90s and stuff, such a almost universal exhibition of misogyny and cultural misogyny. And I realized, for me in thinking as being a thinker, I've been thinking so much about this because when Sinead died, I was devastated. I've never been devastated. I get into artists and I love them.
00:50:06
Speaker
But I wasn't prepared for it. And then I'm like, what the what's going on? And of course, a little bit older than me. But I found it was far more intricate because I felt like through the entire time. And I'd always listened to Sinéad, even after she was cast out and all this stuff. I've listened to her almost the entire time was that. Good.
00:50:28
Speaker
I was in love with her but she presented things for me as in the culture in the 90s as a male around my friends like I think she's hot oh shaved woman right immediately like it'd be watched upon you who's gonna say that so it's like the secret of her voice of the music that was so strong but I never realized until she was gone and then I was like where the heck did all this come from and then
00:50:56
Speaker
and confronted a lot of it. So I think in that example too with Prince, it's like, if that person holds that peace in your mind, has that stature, then like somebody who's interacted badly, you're like, fuck you, that's my, like, that's your name. A million percent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Who's team are you on? Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure.
00:51:21
Speaker
All right, that's the Cinead thing. I want to know this horror in the background. I think we mentioned a couple of either one of you or both of you horror freaks like horror images, horror movies. Oh, yeah. What's going on there?
00:51:41
Speaker
bad cop comes in. I'm like, I can't even very sensitive. She can't watch scary movies.
00:51:55
Speaker
No, I love horror movies. I love death metal. I love all the dark, spooky stuff. That all came around because of actually because of my dad, I think, mostly more than anything. Oh, yeah. Halloween. Halloween. Yeah.
00:52:14
Speaker
My maiden name is Hill, so we would have Halloween. And we had this massive, massive Halloween party every year. And when I started decorating when I was six and helping him decorate, and he was very leaning into, I want this to be scary and gory and terrifying, not fun, no cutesy Halloween stuff allowed.
00:52:41
Speaker
No little candy little things. It's got to be directed towards terror.
00:52:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's got to be disembodied things and guts and horror and blood. And he actually isn't like a huge fan of horror movies, which is weird. I love horror movies. My favorite movie of all time is House of a Thousand Corpses. No, thank you. And I can totally watch that. That's like my background. It's anything where I'm like, why am I rooting for the serial killers?
00:53:14
Speaker
What's wrong with me? That I'm rooting for these guys to stop. I think it's an absolute genius movie.
00:53:24
Speaker
Yeah, Chelsea and I share some brain space. The Something Rather Than Nothing podcast. I've been lucky enough to interview the two top Friday the 13th fan film creators on the show and the Something Rather Than Nothing podcast. I don't know. There's some official roles that I have. So one is a resident philosopher and his name's Jacob forensic.
00:53:54
Speaker
I have something rather than nothing, Saint, and that is Avizia Daquini, exotic dancer extraordinaire. She is the spirit guide for the show. But recently, I selected number one screen queen, which is Susie Block. And so the show has an official screen queen as well.
00:54:23
Speaker
So there's some there's some cred here, some horror cred over this way. And I'm a huge found footage, a horror movie, a freak. I love that genre. So Raquel's over there. It's OK. She's still doing all right over there. No, we're just like, I'm looking over everybody who's listening. I'm trying to not look at Raquel just to not scare her. I'm trying to connect and sequester this to Chelsea.
00:54:54
Speaker
I can handle knowing that horror movies exist. I am, you know, 35. I know that they're there. What credit you've given. I acknowledge that I know that the world has shown peace.
00:55:16
Speaker
We just like politely decline decline to see I mean I watch you know, I saw the house of a thousand corpses preview and I had nightmares I just like I'm way too imaginative and I I saw when I was like five years old the John Benet Ramsey headline on a People magazine and that just like ruined me for a very long time to it like
00:55:44
Speaker
Yeah, I just I can't like, I'm right there. I'm in the room. I have so many feelings. And let me tell you, it just is physically exhausting. How do we establish Kelly's health? Yes. How do we establish Raquel is the steadiest of us three. And well, that's been revealed now. That's just
00:56:06
Speaker
But I really understand. I think it's a healthy way. It's like a healthy way. I don't drink anymore, but I understand why you just separate yourself from the thing. I don't need any of that. It's not good for me.
00:56:27
Speaker
And it's a healthy, normal human reaction. And so just trying to give you the cred, too, to keeping us anchored. Chelsea and I could become unanchored. I've had ghosts on the show. I've had people give ghosts tours. Everything's scary. Everything abandoned.
00:56:47
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not afraid of ghosts. I'm into the ghost thing. In reality, if I really saw a ghost show up right now, I would shit myself in the pants. I'd be scared as anybody. I would be scared as anybody. Oh, yeah. No, totally. Totally. I think it is something to say about art and making art making you feel something.
00:57:10
Speaker
And what it is is trying to make you feel, I don't know. And there's something, I think I was introduced to scary movies way, way too early. And a lot of those are still crawling in the back of my subconscious a little bit. Some of those key scenes of, nope, I was too young to see that.
00:57:31
Speaker
But but I think if there is like a comfort level for some reason when it comes to scary movies and some slasher films and I'm not the one being chopped up right now. So that kind of makes me feel better. But in a horrible aesthetic, aesthetically pleasing and like nostalgic. A lot of them like I love the beginnings of horror movies and like
00:57:56
Speaker
Stranger things I was really like, okay, this is great. And now I got to shut it off But I do like the aesthetic but I think you and I both share in that tool of like loving shock art and like kind of shock value Yeah of how crazy can you really get can you and I mean that that's just talking about American horror movies not like the Japanese or Korean ones we got I
00:58:23
Speaker
Oh, wow. These guys are twisted. And I just people are so creative. It's incredible. And but one of the things is you want to hear something funny. And I think this there must be some deep psychology in this because
00:58:38
Speaker
You know, it's not like movies haven't like impact me. It's always fun to talk to ones that kind of like put a jag in your head a little bit and kind of like tweet you. And certainly a bunch of hard ones. But the movie that scared me the most and like I refuse to watch it again is the original Willy Wonka.
00:58:57
Speaker
Oh, really? That shit scared the living. Yeah. Daylight out of me. Yeah. And that was and people giggle around me right now. But I'm I've always maintained how serious I am about like, I do not need to watch whatever that is. And they're like, whoa, Ken, like, whoa, OK. Is it snow? Oh, it's happening. I've experienced this in 40 years. Oh, my God. I'm a huge Gene Wilder fan and I love Gene Wilder. I love Gene Wilder.
00:59:27
Speaker
I can see that that's a horror movie. That could totally, that when he falls into the chocolate and it's like, Oh my God. Is he dead? It really is. No. What happened to him? What happened to the kids? And for people that are imaginative and
00:59:43
Speaker
You can go there. You're wondering the whole time what the fuck happened to that kid? Is the little kid going to be stuck little forever? Is she always going to be a blueberry? Like I really I needed I needed answers there that I didn't get. If I if we had, I might have been able to deal with it if if if we had a few answers or like the outcomes. No, that was just no, they just left the other side. Yeah. And then they just continue the tour. They continue the tour.
01:00:13
Speaker
Well, in Gene Wilder's too good. So he mentioned Gene Wilder. Gene Wilder is the phenomenal, like phenomenal, you mentioned that. But do you know, do you know one of his finest roles in everything you want to know about sex, but we're afraid to ask? Do you know what his most famous roles is?
01:00:32
Speaker
I mean, everything I wanted to know, is that a movie title? So it's a movie title. And it was, oh, speaking of Woody Allen film, right? Speaking of which. And so these were, I know, let me, we're going into uncomfortable territory. We knew we would go into the show, but there are these vignettes, which were from a popular novel, which was called everything we want to know about sex or afraid to ask. So when one of these scenes,
01:01:01
Speaker
Woody Allen is a sperm amongst other sperms. And they're all in the chamber and they're like, I don't want to go. I don't want to go. And he's like, if he's jerking off, I'm going to end up on the wall, like individual sperm. I like that.
01:01:21
Speaker
And one other part that I guess I'm probably gonna talk too much about, two more parts. One part was a game show called Name Your Perversion. And the piece that Gene Wilder played was Gene Wilder helped to care for a sheep, his neighbor's sheep, and fell in love with Dolly, his neighbor's sheep.
01:01:48
Speaker
And this was a regular released cinema fair, 1973 or so. But Gene Wilder played and I think Dolly the sheep was played by Dolly the sheep. And Gene Wilder played the love afflicted neighbor. I got to see it. You know, he he's such a good one. Maybe we could even do a pot on him.
01:02:14
Speaker
He yeah, because he has just this like way of being able to capture these characters and invent them that like you would never even think of like how he even thought to do some of these roles just is beyond me. And he was like a really kind of like I don't want to like he didn't have like a drug thing. He wasn't like a sex thing or anything like that. He was actually
01:02:42
Speaker
He was actually addicted to praying. Wow. So she like, and he wasn't raised. It's tea or reverse tea. Well, when he wasn't raised religious or anything, he just sort of started habitually praying and got so wrapped up into it one day that he like blacked out in an empty lot in New York and woke up and was like,
01:03:07
Speaker
I need to get help. This isn't normal. I need a professional. And I always just thought that was so interesting how somebody who's not religious can get addicted to wanting salvation and escape from whatever they're going through. I just was like, damn, this guy has some dark, dark core.
01:03:30
Speaker
corners. My mind is blown by everything I'm hearing. I just... Isn't that funny? It's weird. Okay. I know. Wow. Because normally you're like, okay, syphilis, alcohol, heroin addict, whatever. That's your more run of the mill sort of problem. The praying usually doesn't become an issue.
01:03:52
Speaker
He was a real, real individual, for sure, and definitely has the shock value. I loved his interplay because I was at the age of Richard Pryor, to play with Richard Pryor, and one of the greatest stand-up comedians ever. And those two together were... Yeah, a bang-up show, for sure. What a combo. So, how many episodes of the podcasts have you done?
01:04:18
Speaker
What is it now? I don't know. The next one will be 12 and I only know that because I'm the one that posts them. You know you're at the threshold then not to interrupt. You know you're at the threshold. It's 12 to 13. Everybody dies off right where you are. So if you push past, this is the miracle mile. If you push past this, you're in other lands.
01:04:43
Speaker
Oh, we're pushing past it. We're pushing past it. Yeah, no, we we've got ideas. We made we made resolutions. We don't really do New Year's resolutions, but we made them together for one of you as a birthday one coming. Right. Yeah. Yeah. To Kelly's birthday's next week. Yeah. I'm a weirdo aquarius. Hey, Jan babies. Love you guys.
01:05:08
Speaker
But yeah, so we, you know, we're going to push way past it. We already said, you know, we'll give this as long as it feels sustainable. And right now it feels really sustainable. Um, we have a good system because we both get to trade off learning and researching. So I don't see us stopping for at least another a hundred years. That was my request.
01:05:37
Speaker
Unless people are like, you know, we just don't need this. And then I think we'll reconsider. But when did that ever start to stop an artist? The people saying that it doesn't stop. It might eventually stop. People are people are digging on it. They just don't even know that the stuff was there. I mean, the stuff you told me that Gene Wilder story is about as twisted thing as I've heard in years.
01:06:03
Speaker
I'm like, I'm like, I couldn't imagine something like that at all. And, uh, I'm still trying to figure it out. Like it's, yeah, it's one that like I, when I read about it, he has a book called kiss me like a stranger and he goes really into depth with it. And it's just the weirdest, it's like so different from anything I could have ever really wrapped my brain around it. It's still really like struck me.
01:06:30
Speaker
I mean, Chelsea and I were both raised Catholic. And so I think you can kind of listen. You get it then because the fear of God is like struck in you, at least for me. And when I was really young, I like remember being really scared. And then all of a sudden I was like, wait, I don't need to do this. This isn't like for me, this is not not real. I'm not buying anymore.
01:06:54
Speaker
And I think Chelsea, like you from a really young age, alternatively, kind of knew like, oh, wait, no, I don't think so. Oh, no. Yeah. I do remember being really young and just being like, this isn't real. This is all fake, right? Not for me. This is fake. Not for me. Even though I still believe in ghosts.
01:07:16
Speaker
Hey, I got some cred though, so everybody in Rhode Island, I forget what it is, how many folks are...
01:07:25
Speaker
The statistically are Catholic. It's it's everybody. Yeah, the immigration patterns. And so I grew up Catholic. I didn't news flash. I didn't fit in too well with the whole thing. But I'm deeply ingrained upon me. But one one cool thing, I never went to a private school in my life, but I got a scholarship.
01:07:49
Speaker
to study philosophy at Marquette University with the Jesuits. And there's a whole problematic history and everything tied to that. But I tell you one thing that I really liked.
01:08:04
Speaker
about learning from the Jesuits was that within philosophy that I studied, within the program itself, there were opportunities to do real service work, like with people in the community. And within the Marquette archives, they had a woman called Dorothy Day, who was the Catholic communist, Catholic communist and had all that stuff in there. So there was this like,
01:08:33
Speaker
in the streets helped the people, peace of Catholicism that I'd never seen before that I really appreciated. And I learned a lot in that of actually like, so like I tried to peel that from,
01:08:49
Speaker
I mean, yeah, giving to people is never a bad thing, but I do think it just feels like there's always kind of this ulterior motive of like, let me give you the pamphlet at the end, though. Yeah, yeah, right. Join the congregation. No contraception. We need more parishioners. Yeah, let's not. I mean. We need more numbers. I'm a labor union guy. I'm the same way. I need more numbers. We need more student enrollment, whatever is going on.
01:09:20
Speaker
But yeah, I get the giving part, but the whole, you know, you'll burn in hell thing. Not for me, but I mean, whatever you want to do, like whatever you want to do. And you know, I live in the Midwest now and I'm, we're from California. It's just a different vibe out here. Like I've never been, I think everybody kind of operates on this assumption that we're practicing Christians and like, Oh, have you found your church yet? And,
01:09:47
Speaker
Oh, if you want to join my prayer group. For me, I feel like that's really brazen to assume nowadays. It's the only religion where I think people just have that assumption. Then if you're not into it, it's like, oh,
01:10:08
Speaker
like something terrible. Oh, okay. Oh, you can't possibly be a good person then. And it's like, no, but I am. I just don't. Or you're screwed. Like this huge feeling of them saying you're screwed without saying a word. You're screwed.
01:10:22
Speaker
I'm just such a foreign concept. Yeah, and I'm screwed, but that's okay. I don't mind being screwed. It's gotten me this far. I have a good theft story for Marquette University that people would probably like since we were talking about the Catholic Church. So in the midst of the Marquette University campus, which is towards downtown Milwaukee, urban campus in this city,
01:10:50
Speaker
there is the St. Joan of Arc chapel and the St. Joan of Arc chapel is a 15th century chapel. And you say, Hey, Ken, I'm an artist, but, uh,
01:11:03
Speaker
How did a St. Joan of Arc chapel get in Milwaukee, Wisconsin when it's from the 15th century? Yeah, why? That's too old. There was some loose cultural export regulation in France, and this was one of the last cultural objects. They had bought it,
01:11:27
Speaker
and shipped it brick by brick, large brick, 15th century bricks to reconstruct in Milwaukee. And after that, the French government passed legislation and be like, yo, you can't be taking 15th century Joan of Arc like churches and putting them in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA. For what? For why?
01:11:52
Speaker
I kind of like how ridiculous that is though. I mean I like anything that's sort of ridiculous and like unnecessary to a certain degree. What's the one where like a sculptor sculpted a statue of Lucifer and then they were like not too hot and then like they hired his brother or something like that. He's also a sculptor and made another statue of Lucifer which was even more hot than the first one.
01:12:21
Speaker
Oh my god. This one's way too hot now. You guys, no. How many did they go through? I think they stopped at the two and they were like, listen. I think Lucifer is just a hot guy. I don't think we can deny that. We can't make him look like Socrates. He's kind of look like how he looks. He's gorgeous.
01:12:48
Speaker
That's part of his allure. It's actually in the Bible. I can go on about the hypocrisy in the Bible. It's one of my favorite subjects of all time. I bring up a couple of Bible stories. My favorite of all time is a lot.
01:13:08
Speaker
Lot is my favorite Bible story. And then the second favorite is Job. Lot is, oh yeah, I'm just like, well, he just ruined this guy's life because the devil was trying to mess with the, okay, God doesn't seem so good. But Lot's my favorite, I think, because
01:13:29
Speaker
of the major incest because this is what daughters do. And I talk about it a little bit, and I don't even know what episode it is, but it's where a lot in his wife and his family are running from- I think it's boya.
01:13:45
Speaker
Maybe it's the Goya one. Oh, yes, the Goya one because he was painting the lot and the background of the Spanish family, which was tea and Where a lot is a lot in his family are running from Sodom and Gomorrah's. Okay, and then God is like don't look back Of course, the wife looks back and she turns into the pillar of salt that thing but then after the pillar of salt they lot and his daughters go into the cave and Are trying to like figure out? Okay. What are we gonna do?
01:14:13
Speaker
And the daughters are so adamant about how we're never going to find husbands because that's our whole journey is to have husbands and kids. So then they get their dad drunk and proceed too. I feel like I'm going to throw up just thinking about it. That's in the Bible. I didn't learn about the Bible stuff.
01:14:42
Speaker
I didn't learn about that in Sunday school. I was making macaroni pictures. Why? I didn't learn about a lot in Sunday school. Have you seen Brad Neely's comics on YouTube? He does a really good one on that story of Sodom and Gomorrah, like a history professor giving that story. And it just makes me feel like I'm going to throw up a little bit. Oh, it's horrific.
01:15:07
Speaker
And a lot of Bible stories are really in the same theme of that, of, oh, wow. Okay, that is insane. But then this stuff ends up in our history and it's like, I mean, it is tea and it's fun to talk about. We're covering some amazing territory here. I mean, that's what the three of us can do. I mean, when these,
01:15:35
Speaker
Speaking of horror, we're in Bible stories right now. I did want to tell you one more thing about the St. Joan of Arc Chapel. This is the piece because now we're moving into Catholic miracles. Let's go back from Lot to Catholic miracles.
01:15:56
Speaker
is a tiny little chapel. And it's gorgeous, right? And it could be snow in the midst of campus. And heck, I grew up Catholic. I'd look at this thing and I'm like, that looks like a beautiful little church. The churches are beautiful. Gorgeous. There is one brick, however, that was touched or was in contact with the St. Joan of Arc. And that brick
01:16:22
Speaker
That brick is colder than all the other bricks. Is it really? It's cold. I touched it now. I'm not saying nothing about anything or whatever. All I'm saying is that I touched that that brick and it was colder. It was colder. It's 15th century, right? It's Middle Ages. Yeah. Yeah.
01:16:47
Speaker
Yeah, they were all about the relics back then. They probably found a stone. They're like, this one's colder. This will do it. Geologically something. The actual properties of some stones might hold the cold more. Final, final piece about Milwaukee, Wisconsin. This St. Joan of Arc Chapel was a mere 12 blocks from the house of Jeffrey Dahmer.
01:17:12
Speaker
And that is when you, when you get into Milwaukee, for me, it was dominated by the St. Joan of Arc Chapel, Miller High Life, and when Jeffrey Dahmer's used to live. Lots of famous things there. That triangle, that triangle, the Catholic Church Dahmer in beer. I mean.
01:17:37
Speaker
It sounds like you're going to need the beer to go with the history of the thing. I get it. This is not sponsored by the Milwaukee Tourism Bureau. People don't want to go see that. I want to see that. I love a piece of American vintage, the past symbol.
01:18:00
Speaker
We're from California too. So every time, I have family that lives in Connecticut. So every time I go back there, it's like, everything is so old and the bricks. Everything is so old. This is so cool. The churches. Cause I mean in California, there's, there's some like, um,
01:18:24
Speaker
Spanish, like the missions I guess, which are problematic anyway. Yeah, which are also problematic. Do I want to visit those? I do, but I'm a little freaked out by them. Those carry some angry spirits for sure. Oh yeah.
01:18:42
Speaker
Everything's relatively new, yeah, for the most part. When we go back, we're like, oh my God, it's so quaint. Now that I live here, I'm like, so old. I love it. I love all the history and vintage and everything. I'm super into it. You guys have got good antiques out there.
01:18:59
Speaker
I think New England ghosts, when I head out there, my first girlfriend, serious girlfriend in college lived down the street from the Warren investigators in Monroe, Connecticut, the ones with the Annabelle doll and the Cursed Objects Museum. She grew up down there. I should have known. I should have known. She grew up down the street from the Cursed Objects Museum. I should have said to myself that if these cursed objects were present,
01:19:29
Speaker
and she lived the block away. She's first. She's haunted. She's haunted. She's obviously a walking ghost. Yeah. So anyways, I'm not trying to be funny, although that was a little worry in my head. I mean, it's so close to the. It's too close. You could walk out of that class. And Chelsea and I know that Annabelle doll. I get it. It could like. She wasn't like that. It'd be like in my head.
01:19:58
Speaker
I have chills and I don't even know really what it is. And I feel like, no, you should. It's
Travel Adventures
01:20:03
Speaker
a whole house full of haunted things and cursed objects and haunted things in like from all around the world in supposedly like under lock and key and the original haunted Annabelle doll, which is totally haunted, was a raggedy and doll.
01:20:25
Speaker
The original Annabelle doll is like behind glasses, like behind glass in this house. Yeah, they have to like bless it or something like that. I don't know what to add. They have to do something. I'm not on that work detail. I'm not on that work. I love the whole mysteriousness behind the Warren family and all the things that they did. Are they really paranormal investigate? Are they really psychics? I don't know.
01:20:54
Speaker
I want to mess with Annabelle. I listen to this one podcast and that's why we drink and they talk about a haunted doll and they were talking about how the doll, even her presence would like contact listeners and the listeners would send in stories. And let me tell you, I was so scared for like two weeks thinking this fucking doll spirit thing.
01:21:19
Speaker
came through my speakers, it was haunting me, it's just too much. I can't. A highly recommended museum, if you're ever out in Vegas, is the Haunted Museum in Las Vegas. And it's ran by, I don't know if you like all the paranormal investigative shows, but I am obsessed. I love all those guys. I don't care if they're fake, I don't care. It's the Ghost Adventure, Zach Baggins, the Ghost Adventures guy. I love all that shit.
01:21:47
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, he's like one of the first though the ghost adventures people were like one of the first I think they hit them and then the ghost hunters are like the same similar era of like very early 2000s ghost hunters and He's he's a character. He's only a character and and he started the haunted museum out in and Vegas and they have a lot of
01:22:12
Speaker
weird stuff. They have a couple of haunted dolls where they'll they have like a spirit box next to it. And sometimes people faint. Sometimes people get their names called out from the doll. And yeah, like dibbit boxes and all these things you have to make offerings to in order for the spirits not to follow you home. And I'll tell you, Raquel Raquel has to sleep tonight. Come on now.
01:22:41
Speaker
You gotta go watch some cartoons at it. Just because I'm looking at you as we're talking, I still understand that the sound of the audio is still affecting what Raquel's hearing about this. It's a bit much. I'm a wuss. I'm a big wuss. Oh, no. No, I'm used to it.
01:23:04
Speaker
All right. Hey, is there is there is what we're supposed to cover? We've covered a lot of stuff. But what? We've got stories. I mean, if we. Yeah, if we. Yeah, yeah. Like if we hung up right now, we say like, hey.
01:23:22
Speaker
We got to, we supposed to drop this in. This is mostly your show. I'm saying a bunch of weird things. There's a couple of things. What do you want to do? We could talk about our Renaissance, which is where me and Raquel first became buddies.
01:23:38
Speaker
Yes, yes, yes. That one's pretty funny. We both went to Sonoma State, which is a little state school up in Northern California. It's beautiful, has an awesome art department. It's a cute little place. During our time at Sonoma State, there's this coveted New York trip that all the art students at Sonoma State look forward to. Only a few get selected. Amazing.
01:24:04
Speaker
Yeah, everybody, like the whole time during art school, you're just like, oh, I want to go to the New York thing. I want to go there. And this trip was going to be my first time in New York City and Raquel's first time to New York City. And of course, like it's the greatest city in the world and culture and art and all the things.
01:24:26
Speaker
being in my early 20s, I wanted nothing more than to experience that like 4am bar situation that they have and the not sleeping thing. You're in the village. You ended up in the village, didn't you? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Of like, I want to do the night stuff. We ended up a lot of places. We ended up a lot of places.
01:24:48
Speaker
Yeah, so of course we were excited about the Met and the Guggenheim and all the art stuff, but we got to start at the beginning of our journey of the crazy- On our way there, we got on the plane with all the students and the teachers, and we take off from SFO and land in Salt Lake City. Then as we're taking off out of Salt Lake City, the fucking pilot comes on over the intercom and is like,
01:25:12
Speaker
I need help up here. And the nose of the plane slams back down. We're taking off. We're taking off. At this point. We're taking this way.
01:25:23
Speaker
And so people are screaming. Everybody's screaming. False takeoff. So we all deplane. And Delta's like, I'm going to give you guys six drink tickets and $50 to spend in the airport. And it's like 20 pounds. We had like six hours to wait in Utah. Six hours of drinking in Utah. And that's what you do in the airport, right? You feel extra nerdy doing it in Utah as well.
01:25:52
Speaker
Yeah, they have this beer called Polygamy Porter. I'll never forget that. And so it's always very much in on it. Yeah. Yeah. And so we all just get absolutely shmammered. And then our flight into New York was crazy. Chelsea.
01:26:09
Speaker
I was bouncing and I'm okay with flying. Raquel is very much not what I learned. But you could have probably heard that. We were friends of friends at this point. My thing was like, okay, this girl's real pretty and I like her work.
01:26:27
Speaker
And that's about it. Oh my gosh. And I was like, but other than that, I don't really know. She's kind of a friend of another friend, like acquaintance kind of thing. Yeah, you were kind of like mysterious. I was like, I don't know. She looks like she doesn't like me. It's a bunch of horror movies. She's a metalhead.
01:26:51
Speaker
We'll see and then so yeah, so coming into New York was horrific too. It's pouring monsooning rain Was just horrific and then I remember everyone all of our other friends and everything we're saying Oh gosh, I can't wait to get to the hotel and just crash out. I'm so tired We got an early morning did all this work to fucking get here we are going out and
01:27:21
Speaker
And everyone else is just like, girl, you're nuts. No way. We're tired. And then I remember looking at New York to Raquel and saying, are we on the same page? And she's like, totally same page. We're going out. And I was like, did we just become best friends? Are we on the same page?
01:27:47
Speaker
It might've been exactly like the scene in Step Brothers where they realized that they're best friends. Something clicked three days. I think we maybe collectively slept eight hours. No, we did. We went to Brooklyn on accident and we got to see- Sure. Easy left turn. Yeah, we went on accident. We went ballroom dancing in the middle at 4 AM.
01:28:15
Speaker
In the middle of the park, we went to one of the Sonoma State alumni, Chris Jaylee, this artist at the time we got to go to his house and see him make a bunch of cool drawings. It was just like, it was so fun. And ever since then, we've just been like, like stuck together. And really, we've been through so many things in the trenches together.
01:28:38
Speaker
Now, I don't I do not recommend putting your organs through what we put our organs during that time. There's always a health. There's always a health. I don't know if that's always a health. Yeah. They don't.
01:28:55
Speaker
don't pickle your liver in such a short amount of time. My organs are so mad at me, but like you're definitely on the same page during that time. And when it comes to debauchery, did you end up at the Chelsea hotel? I hope you stopped short of the Chelsea hotel. I mean,
01:29:11
Speaker
I don't remember. I don't think so. We did go through that neighborhood because all the galleries are there and stuff, so we did walk through the Chelsea neighborhood. I was like, oh, that's me. She spells her name right too. I love it. I love it. That's great.
01:29:29
Speaker
And then, I mean, that was our Renaissance. And we did all the New York things. You know, we experienced them all together. We got to see the colleagues together. We did the Met. We did the Central Park. Like, we got to do it all. The Frick is the coolest one. I like the Frick the best. That was awesome. You did like the Frick. I like the MoMA.
01:29:49
Speaker
Yeah, it was a good trip. And then ever since then, you just like stuck by by my like, we were just stuck together and everybody kind of, you know, wasn't on our same wavelength. Yeah. Though they were all very annoyed by us and our act of antics the whole time. And sorry, guys. We're probably we're really fucking annoyed. What I did is just I opened the door and said, come on through with it. So it's different. It's different people going to respond.
01:30:18
Speaker
different ways. No, that's such a lovely, in particular, New York City. I was thinking when you're talking about like the Guggenheim is like on my show. The first thing that I thought of the Guggenheim, I did a what if, what if podcast is like a Marvel Comics alternate history. What if this happened?
01:30:38
Speaker
And I did a, I riffed for about like a hundred minutes on, uh, two Coney and comment books that I read. And the ones that I read was like Coney and like smashing the shit out of the, out of the Guggenheim. So that's what I had in my head is we were telling me part of the story of your time. And, and we were kind of smashing this shit out of New York city. We were like, Godzilla.
01:31:03
Speaker
Well, yeah, we did it. We did New York for sure. Oh yeah. We did the thing you were supposed to do, which is just part of your ass off, I guess. And fit in the art museums and checked all the different things. We did all the art things too. We're responsible.
01:31:18
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. You've been with Vincent and alumni to network, right? You networked out there as well. Yeah, it was networking. But then I remember we got back to the hotel room and we told everybody, like all of our girlfriends, like, hey, we just saw Chris Shaley. Like, we got to go to his house. We saw his drawing. He gave me this drawing. It happened in my wallet. And they were all like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, they were so mad that they got hit. They missed out on that. But you know what? You wanted to sleep. Yeah. You can't win if you don't play, you know?
01:31:48
Speaker
Right? Nobody likes a quitter, right? Nobody likes a quitter. Nobody likes a quitter. You gotta be out there. We didn't even shower that whole time to be real. We're very baroque, very, very stinky. A lot of heavy clothes, a lot of layers, a lot of layers. I think it took me like, I think it took me a full day to brush my hair out from how it matters.
01:32:16
Speaker
I think Leonard Cohen did a song about that. No, I get it. I get it. Hey, um, now, uh, what's okay. Is there anything else outside, uh, outside of the meeting, anything else that if you left this show and said, Oh shit, we didn't cover that. What would that be?
01:32:33
Speaker
I don't know. There is a very specific art critique that involved Raquel's questionable bronze sculpture that she made in San Jose. Yeah, I can go there. I didn't know if we were going to be. It was brought up. It was brought up. You only need something rather than nothing once, right?
01:33:01
Speaker
If it goes like this, maybe more than that, but keep going. Maybe. So at Sonoma State, they have a really comprehensive art program.
01:33:11
Speaker
which means that you, even though you're a paint, I was a painting major and I still had to take all the other things like sculpture, ceramics, and the sculpture teacher, I think you can just describe her, you know, if we're talking about a sort of high art
01:33:32
Speaker
setting like she just definitely holds herself in a high regard. And now, you know, being older, I get it. She was the only female studio art teacher at that male dominated school, like total badass. But at the same time, like I, I very quickly knew
01:33:52
Speaker
that she was going to be uncomfortable, let's just say, dealing with me because I definitely like to disrupt. I don't like white walls. I like to shock, like we said.
01:34:09
Speaker
Just let it be subversive. Just let me be subversive. And if I get a hint that you're not going to like it, I'm going to double down. Like I just have to. I have to challenge you. I have to challenge you. I like this instinct. It's good. Well, it's just like, you know, art should be, should be able to be anything, right? You really should be able to push those limits. And so the assignment was to abstract a body part.
01:34:38
Speaker
Can you guess which one I did? I have the slightest idea. Was it an elbow? Close. It rhymes with penis. I did a penis. I was like, I'm going to make a penis. And I knew going into the conversation because you have to talk about what you're making and why you're making it. I knew going into this conversation that I'd have to straight face it and have a really good reason.
01:35:06
Speaker
why I'm abstracting the penis. So I'm talking to Jan and I'm like, you know, I'm going to abstract a penis and it's going to be like what my dick would be like if I had one. And it's going to be about, you know, female rights and power, empowerment and
01:35:25
Speaker
Which are serious topics like it was you know, it was easy, but to be honest I was really just kind of fucking with her and everybody and I knew having to be in like a critique that I was just like so excited so I you know I and it's bronze foundry was the segment to which is you know
01:35:48
Speaker
very high art. Working with Lava. It is like working with Lava. I was actually the hooker of the bronze foundry and I just chose the job because it was hooker.
01:36:04
Speaker
And it's really like you use a hook and you like hook on to this. It was like actually one of the scariest things because they're like this big pot of llama. It's like in your face. I'm like, man, I just chose this job because it's funny. You're like, come on. I'm like a full fucking anti-fire suit.
01:36:30
Speaker
I'm just thinking both of you like either one of you around lava in general. It was a scary situation. It was scary. But making bronze, you have to like sculpt wax and then you dip it in plaster and then you, you know, fucking fill it. And it's a whole thing. And she was talking about patinas and finishings and things like that. And I
01:36:53
Speaker
I'm not very precise, but I patina'd the dick and I did it and I did it right and I waxed it and I made it. I made it as like, it was, yeah. And so, and then when I presented it, I put it on a white pedestal on top of a glass wine craft.
01:37:11
Speaker
and I wrested it, I nestled it into this wine craft and then I lit it and I put it in the center of the art hallway so everybody had to walk and see it.
01:37:28
Speaker
So we go into crit and I'm like, okay, I just have to stay strong. Like I cannot laugh. I cannot laugh because if I laugh, it ruins the whole thing. So I kept a straight face and everybody sort of giggling and like not, you know, they're like, well, it's a dick. Like, what can we really say? And then I look over at my friend Jamie at the time. She's like looking at me, like sensing that I'm sort of like disappointed.
01:37:56
Speaker
Because people aren't getting into it and she stops everybody is like I think it's like I can't believe all of you are laughing Like this is clearly and she was really serious. She saved my act. This is clearly a commentary like I'm just thinking about the weight that men have on top of women and how they keep us down and how
01:38:16
Speaker
Also, the strength of the carafe holds the man up because women really are the backbone behind men. And she goes there. And I was like, yeah, she just kept going. And I was like, fuck yeah, this is going my direction. And I mean, it's so cool because it actually, you know, even though I did mean for it to be
01:38:37
Speaker
sort of like this comment on my artistic license. It ended up being this other thing, and other male professors came up to me, and they're commending me on it, and, oh, I really liked it. And John Scott, remember, was all like, crouched in the bar later, and he was like, what is it?
01:38:59
Speaker
He loved it. He wanted to talk to me about it for so long and it really ended up just being like one of my favorite crits that I've ever had. The art department won't forget that one. No, I hope not. Sometimes they ask to keep the work though and unfortunately they didn't ask to keep my seven pound bronze penis. I still have it. If you guys are in the market.
01:39:25
Speaker
Well, there's there's there's there's a lot of directions this can go. And we both we both do classy shows. I mean, let's say so we have a right. Well. But let me try it this way. Since you said initially, you know, just fucking around with things. But you said it would be yours. Did you craft?
01:39:52
Speaker
your penis in a way that reflected crafting yours in your head? I mean, yes. By patina, by patina and the hell out. I think that was the verb patina. So I mean, I put so I think everybody kind of has a doodle. Like, do you have something that you like to doodle over and over?
01:40:20
Speaker
Kenny, like, yeah, I do. I do. I do geometric shapes. Yeah. Constantly all around. And that's what I do when I do. Yeah.
01:40:30
Speaker
See? And I have a signature doodle that I do. It's usually figurative, heavy eyelids, big bulbous eyes, and weird creepy little figures. And so I drew those three dimensionally all over the penis. And there's this term, I think it's spit back.
01:40:52
Speaker
That can happen in bronze where, like, if the wax doesn't melt the correct way, air can get trapped in the casting. So it looks like somebody took a bite out of the head of the dick and was like, why does have to let this happen by taken out of it? Yeah.
01:41:12
Speaker
That's the reason for the commentary. That was the reason for the commentary, if that's what people thought. Well, it was accidental. It's not something you can really control or plan on. Or maybe you can if you're a master at the craft. You're good at this, yeah. She gave me a B plus, which I thought was good because all my other projects did not grade as well. But I remember being like, yeah, B plus. Thank God. That was an intense class. That was an intense class. It was very serious.
01:41:41
Speaker
Serious is so that we have an S S RTN podcast exclusive then I think at this point, right? Is there any other
01:41:59
Speaker
thing that if you hung up and said, shit, we were supposed to drop this on the on the on that podcast. This has been a free for all. We know we're doing it now. Not to, you know, to force anything on you, but to get rid of that feeling that I have sometimes.
Inclusivity in Art
01:42:18
Speaker
I mean, I have a thousand questions. I'll be unsatisfied at the end. I mean, this is just there's just too much I could open up. I'm just going to let all that go.
01:42:30
Speaker
Come check it out if you want to, and if you feel like it. And we're just trying to combat the hoity-toity gate-keepy art environment, full force in a fun, gossipy way, and bring us back to the art is just a human experience, and humans are drama, and drama is fun. So, yeah, check out W Download for Oak Riches, and maybe some of these artists will be more
01:42:49
Speaker
I think, you know, if anything, just, you know,
01:42:59
Speaker
could be more relatable and help you join the conversation. Or if anything, as Raquel says, you can be the most interesting guy at the party with some of these little facts about some of our favorite artists. I'm already using some of this stuff, you know? Did you have a moment where you were like, did you know this or anything like that to anybody? Did you use the T?
01:43:29
Speaker
I mentioned in brief passing maybe on social media and Instagram, but what I found so fascinating about my encounters
01:43:49
Speaker
I was in the mid-20s. I was in the Czech Republic and I didn't, I'd never even heard of the name, Chile. I never, I just had an encounter. But when I saw the art, I was like, oh my gosh, like what the heck is this? I mean, just, you know, just kind of hungry to see everything. In his, the museum, I guess he had worked some time in the town of Chechki Krumlov, which in the Czech Republic.
01:44:14
Speaker
And, um, but I didn't realize this strange event, which I've never seen before would correlate so closely to the art that he produced was that there were Europeans. And I don't say that because they were naked. I mean,
01:44:30
Speaker
You know, but it was, um, it was starting to get warm, but it wasn't very warm. So when they like, there was a bunch of women, a few guys, and they all jumped into the river and it was over down by the museums. But I think what was so fascinating.
01:44:47
Speaker
that I didn't understand at the time was like, what I saw were bodies and they were all like, you know, when you jump in and your body's become like distended and you're not posing or modeling. It was like the way that the bodies were in his paintings where there was an exposure. And I was like, it's so weird. The only time I've ever seen people, well, I see that every weekend in Portland, but the only type of time that was
01:45:11
Speaker
was like really like then and right next to that museum. The other piece when I was in the town, uh, once in a lifetime experience, uh, only time I did it, but it was fun as hell for a few minutes was there was a bar in Jeshky Krumloff that was an old jail and it was underground. So then it was like going into like an old ass jail bar. Hell yeah.
01:45:38
Speaker
Only time I ever had it absent, right? So I'm drinking at this point and they set it up and they got the absent and it's green. And I read all the legends and go nuts on this stuff with alcohol. And then they get the sugar and they soak it up in the absent and then they light it. I'm like, am I fucking Mason over here? Like, I don't always, I don't always check my surroundings or check myself, but I'm like,
01:46:05
Speaker
I'm like, what's going on here? And I'm like, is this free? Had it. And I drank it down and I giggled, giggled for 45 great seconds, 45, whatever. It's funny. I try to laugh. I giggled like a schoolgirl for 45 seconds. I was like, whatever that was. Whoa. That is different than other things that I've had before. So.
01:46:32
Speaker
that was all in one day that does kind of remind me i used to work at a marijuana dispensary that's how i met my husband he was my manager and um we used to do and this was before um the prop came out so that it was kind of like in the the transition era of
01:46:52
Speaker
marijuana being just medicinal and then marijuana being recreational in California at the time. And so we were allowed basically before the prop came out, it was just you're basically just selling drugs in a store that at that point of it's completely not regulated at all. The federal government doesn't want to deal with it. It's fine.
01:47:15
Speaker
And so we're doing the dispensary that I worked at was doing dabs in the dispensary. So a lot of people thought like, oh, what is this? Is this crack? And I was like, no, no, no, it's weed. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. Try it. Come on, try it.
01:47:35
Speaker
Just need more heat than normal. That's awesome. So I was the one that kind of dispensed the dust because you have to heat it up with a torch. And we didn't want our patients to be playing with a torch or anything. So I'm heating it up. And it's always the biggest dudes, the biggest, scariest gangster that can do this. They're like, yeah, give me your dub. So good. And then, OK, come on over. Come on. It's OK. Come on. And then they're just.
01:48:06
Speaker
I'm like a solid 20 seconds, 30 seconds of straight coughing. Is that too hard for you? Is that okay?
01:48:19
Speaker
And then of course the giggling, the full blown like coming into themselves as like little babies. Yeah, I need a glass of water. And like happens like, do you need to go sit down? It's okay. And the ones that that took him like a champ are usually like the hardcore old ladies that have aches and pains that needed to come to the dispensary and like, please give me a dab. Hell yeah. I took it like champs.
01:48:46
Speaker
I would be like, in a ball in the corner. Just dying. Can we just comment? Can we just comment on how good Chelsea's baby voice is, though? That is actually, thank you. Thank you for pointing that out. I moved right into that. Chelsea, how do you end up around so much lava in hot torches? I mean, I'm just a common citizen here, an observer, and saying, how's this happening here?
01:49:14
Speaker
Oh, maybe I'm a fire sign, maybe. I don't know. Chelsea's also very neat and organized and clean. I feel like I'm the opposite and I'm always been like, wow, you're so clean. Or weren't you Aquarius, right?
01:49:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Wylie. Up, down, all around. Yeah, my partner Jenny's in Aquarius. That's a real, real, real energy. I'm a Leo, so I don't know how those are supposed to combine and all. So I like Leo. I like the August birthday. I like the
01:49:50
Speaker
Yeah, my dad and my stepmom are Leos. I have a lot of Leos and Sagittarius in my life. Both my parents are Leos and that's why they're divorced. Leos are really loyal though. They've got a loyalty to the people that they love, their caretakers.
01:50:11
Speaker
They got a temper though. They got a temper though. And Aquarius, we can't be bothered with the temper. We can't be bothered with the temper. Moving off camera away from my dad's leos. Two leos can be a much. Hey, I'm going to talk to the listeners out there.
01:50:30
Speaker
Uh, you know, uh, Baroque bitches, uh, podcast, uh, uh, follow leg jump on the Instagram page. The Instagram page is fun. I've seen memes. You've been meaming it up. Like, yeah, I love me a podcast. I love me a meme and, uh, I did a review
Supporting Indie Creators
01:50:54
Speaker
recently. I said, uh, not for prudes. I said other things, but
01:51:00
Speaker
Don't come in ready to be offended folks. Be prepared to learn and understand all of the story behind the famous artists. But no, like we were doing this indie thing and there's something about podcasts too. It's like
01:51:19
Speaker
There's a lot of misnomers and misunderstandings. Like I said about that thing going from 12 to 13 episodes, people say they're a billion podcasts? No, there isn't. There are a large amount, and it's a growing media, but of ongoing podcasts, of good quality, and indie folks putting it together. This is important stuff to support. And I think it's really cool to do it, because you already know it's not easy. And how do I get notice? And if you make art from me,
01:51:49
Speaker
I'm a self promoter. I'm an organizer. If I'm making something with my brain and I think it's cool, just like me working in labor movement, if I think it's cool or a good thing to do, I'm going to tell you it's a good thing to do. I'm going to tell you to listen. And I think like dropping into that and supporting and just artists will drop in and be like,
01:52:10
Speaker
check this out. I'm a big fan. I've done my review. I've done a lot of, uh, all that type of stuff, but, um, you know, seriously, everybody take the action step, uh, support broke bitches. Hey, support something, uh, rather than, than, than, than nothing, rather than, rather than nothing. Hey, I've never done this before, but try to let you go.
01:52:32
Speaker
Everybody hates this question. Why is there something rather than nothing? It's the funniest thing in the world. We got it, dude. We got it. I mean, did we capture the gestalt of why there is something rather than nothing? I mean, we covered the Bible a lot of the Catholic Church miracles. We went a lot of places. Brass penis.
01:52:59
Speaker
We mean there's so much syphilis it's all in there We want so many places when I lived in Cape Cod and go to the doctor My friend, you know, it's on the Cape Cod late early 20s and stuff like that I'm pissing I'm pissing razor blades dude. I can't help you with that You
01:53:24
Speaker
You're pissing razor blades. I'm not asking questions to go away. You can't put between 12 ounces on it and wait for this. You got to go to the freak. Go to the doctor. Um, uh, people can find your show everywhere. Yeah. Right. Well, why is there something rather than nothing? Oh, I want you to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:53:50
Speaker
Okay, I'm very literal. Surprisingly, I'm pretty literal. And I did get kind of mad at the question a little bit when I was thinking about it. And then today I was like, you know what?
The Philosophy of 'Nothing'
01:54:05
Speaker
There's only nothing to quantify something because nothing is not actually a thing. I don't think nothing is actually real is my answer after thinking long and hard about it because everything
01:54:20
Speaker
is able to be described, even space where there's supposedly nothingness is still fucking called space. So that is why there's always something because nothing is not actually existing. That's my answer. And she frees up. Yeah, it just froze up just right there. And she was. Oh, man. And I didn't know this stuff. Like, did I lose you?
01:54:49
Speaker
You're giving the best. You're giving the best answer. Like, I can't predict. You're giving the best answer. I'm like, I don't have to fucking ask this anymore. You're going and I'm like, when you stop, I'm like, I've been doing this five years. I'm finished. I got it glitched. It paused. We lost you. We lost you at like space. You can describe space as being something. You can even describe space because space is still space. Space is not nothing.
01:55:19
Speaker
So the answer is that there's not actually nothing because everything is actually something. Everything is something rather than nothing. Raquel, right there. Done. Fucking nail on the head. Yeah. Not too many. I don't say that.
01:55:36
Speaker
right there. It's like for me, I always tell the joke again. Don't tell the joke again. Don't say it again. I always repeat myself. You got it. Chelsea, Chelsea, something rather than nothing. If the question is still of any issue or importance, I'll just answered it. Give it a.
01:55:54
Speaker
I think it's just that nothing would mean that the art world would, and I'm less literal. I'm more about how it pertains to us and what we're doing. You got this.
01:56:10
Speaker
That I think because the art world would continue to be this gate keeping environment that doesn't allow people to access it in a way. I think a lot of times and I hear this from my students a lot too of.
01:56:26
Speaker
I don't really understand some art. And it's like, well, it's not sometimes it's not something to understand. You just got to kind of feel it. And so we're we're really trying to like if we kid trying to make some the something be
01:56:44
Speaker
that art could be accessible for everyone. And then maybe people would want to consider joining the conversation or even people would consider making their own art. And that is just fucking beautiful. So I think that's that's the something is that that others kind of spreading the word that others can access
Conclusion and Encouragement
01:57:08
Speaker
this. And it doesn't have to be with painting or drawing or anything like that. It could be and it could be
01:57:14
Speaker
quilting or making tree houses, I don't know, gardening. Whatever your something is should be explored and you should also have fun with it too as much as you can. Yeah, and I mean, something can come from nothing, right? We are building this something out of nothing.
01:57:35
Speaker
But then the word nothing's only there to quantify the something that we're doing. There's a bunch of really intricate German expressions that try to capture what you did in careers spent on trying to capture what you did.
01:57:50
Speaker
I love it. No, it's art. It's art. It's art for the people. Right. Like I didn't fit into the I didn't fit into the to the academy. And I think like if philosophy or thinking about like questions wasn't at least entertaining or helped you like mess with your head to try to figure out a different way or art and it Jack with your head to say, hey, that wasn't true. This is true. Then
01:58:17
Speaker
I don't know. Like, let's let's let's go for it. This is what is this episode called? The truth? Something Baroque? I don't know. We get it. We'll figure out the title later on. I the book of the book of Job or I.
01:58:39
Speaker
I got scared with Chelsea on the Bible stuff. I'm like, if I, if I throw that out there a little bit further, we're going to get all the Bible stuff. We're going to get Abraham and Isaac. We're going to get there with you. Oh, I love all that stuff. I also kind of hate it too, but I love it too. You're good. And you know, you're shit. Like I was like checked out at catechism for sure. Um, yeah, we almost,
01:59:05
Speaker
Catechism. Yeah. I had to do the whole thing. I got, yeah, we won't. They confirmed me. I got confirmed too. I'm a confirmed Catholic. What is the state of the... You're not gonna burn. What's the state of the church, Raquel? Looking like us, I even answered the questionnaire wrong before with the priest. I answered the questionnaire wrong. There was something in there I said about loving your neighbors. I was basically wrote something like, my neighbor's an asshole. I don't love him. He's a cat.
01:59:33
Speaker
It's so confirming. I'm like, um, I can pass tests here. I think I failed this one, but if you're gonna pass me anyways, I guess you need me confirmed. So I don't know.
01:59:47
Speaker
I didn't get it. I didn't end up getting that far, but I did read the thing. I think that a lot of people should try reading the thing. And especially the people that like to quote it a lot, should try anything. And seeing that there's some really, really wild stuff in there. So if you're going to quote it, especially when it comes to being mean to someone and hating on somebody,
02:00:17
Speaker
then you should actually read what's in there and see that that quote is not relevant. Because we're not like anti-faith or anti-believers. Oh, faith is beautiful. We're anti-haters and it's not our fault that like, you know, the Bible of LT people just get, you know, grouped in there because they
02:00:40
Speaker
They like to be haters. Could be a hater. And from what I know about Jesus, he was actually really cool and a Buddhist. But anyway.
02:00:53
Speaker
We are taking on every, every, every topic. And that's that's our commitment in this show. One second. My my screen just my screen's back. Hey, still there. OK. Yeah. Yeah. Something weird happened on my screen. So we're running into weird goblins and everything. Let's wrap up this. Yeah. Party.
02:01:26
Speaker
really love hanging with you and um yeah thanks for having us yeah this is good and everybody check out check out check out the baroque bitches podcast subscribe to it on multiple channels download it on anywhere you have space on your computer on your tablet on your phone get those downloads up for them and uh and keep doing what you're doing like i said you've got there's something between episode 12 and 13 you're in
02:01:46
Speaker
Uh, thank you both so much. It, uh, I felt like I knew you cause of maybe the wildness of your show, but, um,
02:01:55
Speaker
It's not all easy from there, but you have you have gotten over the hurdle. So you are doing it. Thanks. Thanks for that. I didn't know that. And yeah, we appreciate being on here. It was really fun. Super fun. Yeah. Yeah. We got to do it again. Part two. Yes. Part is fun. This is part one. This is the rest of the story. Yeah. This is part one. Everybody. Art is fun. Right. It's good. Remember. Have a good time. Have a good time.
02:02:25
Speaker
Have a good time, and thank you so much, and yeah, more to go. Yeah, thank you. This is something rather than nothing.
02:02:52
Speaker
and listeners to stay connected with us in our guests, visit something rather than nothing.com. Join our mailing list for exclusive updates and access to guest created art. If you enjoyed this episode or any episode, please like, subscribe, leave a review on your podcast platform. People really read that shit.
02:03:13
Speaker
Your support helps us reach more listeners and spread our community across the planet. This is a global show and we like to give a shout out to our many listeners across the world, including many listeners in Canada, Spain, Germany, UK, Argentina, Brazil, India, Thailand, and so many more places. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at something rather than nothing podcasts for behind the scenes content.
02:03:41
Speaker
And the best way to help the show is to tell your friends about us. If you love it, they'll love it too. Tell your friends who love it. We love you. This is something rather than nothing podcast.