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Episode 84: Cancellations, Rescheduling, and Enforcing Your Contracts
160 Plays5 years ago
Attorney Paige Griffith, of The Legal Paige, joins me for a special live episode of the Brands that Book podcast to discuss contracts, specifically what you need to know when cancelling or rescheduling events. With what's going on in the world right now and this subject being top of mind for lots of people, we opted for a live episode so that people could access this information sooner. We cover quite a few different scenarios in this episode and Paige has also written a blog post on this topic. I've linked to that and other resources Paige has available on her website in the show notes.
Before we get started, a quick disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and the information shared during this episode are for informational purposes only and not for purposes of providing legal advice. You should contact your attorney to obtain advise with respect to any particular issue or problem. And as Paige mentions during the episode, while she is a lawyer, she's not your lawyer.
If you want to know about any of the live recordings we have coming up, be sure to sign up for our mailing list. We don't plan on making every episode a live episode, since streaming live has its own set of challenges. But I think in certain circumstances, like with today's episode, it's helpful.
For the show notes, go to https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-paige-griffith-episode-84/
Recommended
Transcript
Impact of Government Mandates on Contracts
00:00:05
Speaker
Like you said, it's changing constantly. So there's government mandates and orders being put into effect. I will say kind of the CDC recommendations and the White House recommendations. Those are just recommendations and guidelines, and then it's going to be based upon your state orders and mandates and your local orders and mandates. So that's really what's going to precipitate
00:00:27
Speaker
how impossibility is going to be impacted under your contracts, and it's changing. Like you said, it's changing rapidly. It's been changing since Sunday evening.
Introduction to the Podcast and Guest Speaker
00:00:41
Speaker
Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative, service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
00:00:54
Speaker
Attorney Paige Griffith of The Legal Page joins me for a special live episode of the Brand Set Book Podcast to discuss contracts, specifically what you need to know when canceling or rescheduling events. With what's going on in the world right now and this subject being top of mind for lots of people, we opted for a live episode so that people could access this information sooner.
00:01:16
Speaker
We cover quite a few different scenarios in this episode and Paige has also written a blog post on this topic. I've linked to that and other resources Paige has available on her website in the show notes. Before we get started, a quick disclaimer. I am not a lawyer and the information shared during this episode are for informational purposes only and not for purposes of providing legal advice. You should contact your attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem. And as Paige mentions during the episode, while she is a lawyer, she's not your
00:01:46
Speaker
If you want to know about any of the live recordings we have coming up, be sure to sign up for our mailing list. We don't plan on making every episode a live episode since streaming live has its own set of challenges, but I think in certain circumstances, like with today's episode, it's helpful.
00:02:02
Speaker
Be sure to check out the show notes at DavyandChrista.com for the resources we mentioned during the episode. And I want to hear from you, especially right now as the world deals with this pandemic. I'd like to hear from you on what content you'd like to see on the Brancet Book Podcast. To leave your feedback, head on over to the DavyandChrista Facebook page and send us a message.
Why is the Episode Live?
00:02:19
Speaker
You can also DM us on Instagram at DavyandChrista. Now onto the episode.
00:02:30
Speaker
All right, so we are one of the first ever live recordings of the brands that book podcast I've been wanting to do this for a while now page and I'm so happy to have you as a guest for a number reasons. One, you've been a guest before and one of your last podcast episode on the brands that book show one of the top 10 episodes. So
00:02:47
Speaker
And it wasn't even on legal type stuff. So I got you back here chatting about stuff that is definitely in your wheelhouse, especially with everything that's going on in the world. So how busy are you right now?
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah, the busiest I've ever been, ever. So definitely 12, 14, I pulled a 16 hour day one time this week. Just trying to keep my head above water, but I keep telling people this is what I trained for and this is my expertise. Event industry and contracts, that is my wheelhouse. So I'm here, I'm just trying to help as many people as possible navigate this time because lots of people don't know how and what is the best options for them.
00:03:30
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it definitely is an unprecedented situation. I mean, certainly unprecedented in our in our lifetime, you know, I mean, the last pandemic that comes to mind happened in what the early 1900. So not even anything that really many of our parents have dealt with. So what's going on is just crazy. But I feel
00:03:47
Speaker
It's so great that we have to chat with you because like you said, you are a photographer. The last episode you did on the Brands That Book podcast was actually booking work in a small town. You are somebody who actually ran a photography business. You actually understand the ins and outs of that industry in addition to being an attorney and being trained on that front as well.
00:04:07
Speaker
definitely the person to talk to. If you are tuning in live right now, feel free to ask questions. We'll get to those as we can get to them throughout the broadcast. We do have some stuff that I definitely want to get to just based on things that I've seen, especially on Facebook as people try to navigate everything that's going on right
State Orders and Event Limitations
00:04:25
Speaker
now.
00:04:25
Speaker
I think pretty much across the country, certainly here in Maryland, the governor, for instance, issued an executive order this morning that gatherings over 10 people are prohibited. So that pretty much cancels, effectively cancels, at least for the next couple of weeks, any weddings. So, I mean, it's one of those things where I think people should always know this information, right? I mean, people deal with cancellations and post moments, even when there's not a pandemic going on.
00:04:54
Speaker
But right now, everybody's dealing with it. So everybody has questions on how to handle this, not only in a way that I think serves the client well, but then also just is best for their business in this time. Because I mean, that can be kind of a serious loss of income right when four to eight weddings are canceled over the next few months.
00:05:15
Speaker
Yeah, you cut off there just a little bit, but no, you're totally fine.
Contractual Challenges During a Pandemic
00:05:19
Speaker
Yeah. The issue here, the reason it's so unprecedented is because it's not just clients deciding to cancel or you deciding to cancel for whatever reason. It's both parties.
00:05:31
Speaker
can't perform under the contract. The client can't hold the event and you can't perform your services as an event industry professional. So that is why it's just totally different. It's a totally different ballgame. The issue across the board, Davey, is just contracts don't really speak to that. There's not express explicit language.
00:05:54
Speaker
And everybody's like, well, what do we do? How do we navigate this?
Understanding Force Majeure Clauses
00:05:58
Speaker
And people don't know a lot about force majeure and what it means and how is it implicated. And that's kind of what's rolling around right now in the online world and Facebook groups in education groups. So I would, you know, I'm happy to discuss anything that you think is necessary for just getting general information out there.
00:06:18
Speaker
and trying to dispel a lot of the misinformation that people are talking about in groups and they're not trained attorneys and they don't really know what contract law actually says. Sure, sure. So for somebody who's dealing with this initial wave of counter postponements or cancellations, where should they start, I guess is a good question. What do they need to do to kind of assess the situation?
00:06:43
Speaker
Yeah, happy to get into that. Let me just first, I am being very, very upfront with people with a legal disclaimer. So I want to make sure that I make that clear from the get go here. So I'm an attorney page behind the legal page. The legal page is an educational platform. I have a virtual law practice where I take one on one clients.
00:07:03
Speaker
But as I am just giving information here to kind of the general public, I just want everyone to know that attorney client privilege doesn't attach. I am an attorney, but I am not your attorney. So, and Davey, it's really important too for people to understand that contract law is state specific. While contract laws are similar across the United States,
00:07:25
Speaker
It could differ, you know, depending on the location that you're in. And then also I just kind of want to make a disclaimer that every contract is different. You know, many people modify contracts or they have a template contract, they've put it together or maybe an attorney has helped them. They've gotten it from an industry friend.
00:07:43
Speaker
I have yet to see this week, after reviewing probably 100 to 200 contracts, the same language. So when people are kind of just giving information out there right now, they have no idea what your state contract laws state, and they have no idea what the express terms of your contract are.
00:08:01
Speaker
So that's just kind of my full disclaimer here at the beginning. Of course, my legal disclaimer as an attorney, but I had just want you guys also to be aware of what's happening with everybody giving suggestions. So the first thing you need to do, this is obvious to a lot of you, is read your contract.
Key Contract Clauses to Review
00:08:21
Speaker
And you have to figure out what your force majeure clause says. As a force majeure clause, it's of superior strength is what it means. It's an act of God clause. Davy, some people have it under their limitation of liability clause. That's usually where I'm seeing it. It's either it's standalone clause, an act of God clause, or it's in some other clause section.
00:08:47
Speaker
The one thing I will state at this point is the force majeure clause is probably triggered here. Sure. Likely because across the board in many different locations, it's impossible for you to perform your services. I know some people, they have worked around it and it might not be fully impossible, but you need to read your contract. You need to look at the force majeure clause, and then you really need to look at your cancellation and rescheduling policies.
00:09:15
Speaker
Because while force majeure is implicated, most contracts do not express what the refundability of your retainer or your reservation fee or all fees paid at this point that your clients have paid thus far. So all three of those sections of your contract are really important to look at right now. So that's first thing you got to do.
00:09:37
Speaker
All right, so force for sure cancellation and any sort of refund policy within your contract, especially when it comes to that act of God clause.
Are Pandemics Force Majeure?
00:09:46
Speaker
Yeah, I meant to go back and even look at ours. I don't remember pandemic explicitly being listed, right? Is it safe to assume that this falls under that clause? Like kind of where would that hold up in court?
00:09:58
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. And I've been fielding that a lot. Obviously anyone, so it's called kind of the invoking party or the impacted party, the one who is stating, you know, this is a force majeure event. Usually it's your clients. Okay. Oftentimes it's not you as the service provider, but if the impacted party is claiming a force majeure event is preventing them for performing services under the contract,
00:10:23
Speaker
Lots of clauses right now don't explicitly state epidemics or pandemics in the contract world and legal world. If you had to go to court, the burden of proof would be on the impacted party. So your clients would have to essentially argue and prove through legal documentation or a court case or in court that it is an act of God. But it's pretty safe to say here that it is
00:10:49
Speaker
impossible to perform because of the state of the world and everything is changing and events can't be held. So I don't foresee there being any issue to this really being a force majeure situation. Like, even if it's not listed,
00:11:06
Speaker
It'd be interesting to see two attorneys argue if this is not and, you know, is or is not an act of God. But I would say it's probably there. You know, some kind of interpretation of contracts here. A force majeure clause, essentially, you guys, it really trumps what's called the doctrine of impossibility or the doctrine of frustration of purpose. And both of those are dealing with impossibility of performance by one of the parties under a contract.
00:11:36
Speaker
So essentially here we're dealing with an impossible situation and force majeure is invoked. So that's where we're at now. And like you said, it's changing constantly. So there's
Effects of Government Orders on Contract Performance
00:11:49
Speaker
government mandates and orders being put into effect. I will say kind of the CDC recommendations and the white house recommendations. Those are just recommendations and guidelines, and then it's going to be based upon your state.
00:12:01
Speaker
orders and mandates and your local orders and mandates. So that's really what's going to precipitate how impossibility is going to be, you know, impacted under your contracts. And it's changing. Like you said, it's changing rapidly. It's been changing since Sunday evening.
00:12:18
Speaker
And I think one of the reasons I asked is because of an interesting situation that I saw our scenario. I saw somebody post on Facebook where I guess the most common scenario is people just trying to figure out how to deal with cancellation and postponements. However, at least one person said, okay, I am traveling out of state for a wedding. I'm going into a state that has more confirmed cases than my current state. And they're kind of doubting their safety for the event.
00:12:45
Speaker
So I guess what kind of obligation would they be protected based on this Act of God clause not to show up and perform services because of what's going on in the world? And so that's in part why I ask that question. It sounds like the answer is yes, but I think just with all of the recommendations from the White House and down into local government, I'm assuming that yes, they would be okay emailing their client and saying, hey, listen, I don't think it's safe for me to go to this event.
00:13:11
Speaker
Yeah, that's been rolling around in all kinds of groups and there's questions galore on that front. The one thing I just say is it's pretty simple here, right? If you aren't able to perform, if there is a mandate or government order in place that prohibits you from performing, the clients would essentially be asking you to do something that's in violation of a government order and you do not have to do that as a service provider and I don't recommend it because that is super risky on your business.
00:13:40
Speaker
tons of liability you'd be facing there. So I do always state though, you know, Davey, that you do have to, when force majeure events happen, and we can really get into this here if we want to, but force majeure just means your performance is excused under the contract. It literally, that's all it does is it says you cannot be sued for breach of contract on either party's behalf. It should be kind of a dual two-sided clause.
00:14:08
Speaker
due to a force majeure situation. And so that is kind of the issue that a lot of attorneys have been facing this week and attorneys across the board are getting inundated because while performance is excused, what does it mean for the finances and fees that have been involved with you and your clients? So speaking in terms of that and performance and government orders and violating government orders by attending large events,
00:14:38
Speaker
The one caveat I will say here is you need to be aware that you have to try and cure performance. And I'm gonna get into that with like rescheduling.
00:14:47
Speaker
But there might be circumstances, Davey, where you can kind of mitigate the circumstances that you're in. Lots of people are, they've been engaged for a while and they still want to get married. You know, if we're talking about an actual wedding event or a ceremony, there's other, you know, there's events, conferences, workshops, that's a totally different ballgame.
00:15:11
Speaker
But if people are still wanting to get married, you might be able to mitigate circumstances if you're available, if your health and safety is okay to do so. Can you initiate kind of some necessary safety measures? And ultimately, some clients are saying, well, we're just going to get married with us and our parents. That's under 10 people.
00:15:30
Speaker
Can you still be there to photograph for say two hours and then we'll have a reception later on. So there are some caveats there. It's like curing your performance right now, but ultimately no, you can't really go to big events right now. It's just not possible. It's impossible. And, and venue owners are dealing with this like crazy right now. And I would say if you're an event industry professional, that's not a venue owner really try to wait until your clients
00:15:59
Speaker
and the venue make a decision because then you can take action based upon them being unable to host the event because the venue has shut down events over a certain amount of people. Yeah. And one of our closest friends are venue owners. And I think for them, kind of that decision was taken out of their hands by the state government. And so I think that's a great point is that that decision might be made for you. And so you kind of get out of some of the consequences in bringing that decision upon yourself.
00:16:28
Speaker
So let's dive into just rescheduling because like you said, I imagine that, you know, speaking to a lot of wedding industry folks now, I imagine that the people who were going to get married still want to get married, right?
Rescheduling Events: A Step-by-Step Guide
00:16:38
Speaker
So in rescheduling, what needs to happen? Because obviously, you're no longer going to fulfill the terms of the contract and that you're not going to show up on the specific date agreed upon to shoot the wedding. What do you need to do to get that person kind of back on the agenda or back into your calendar rather?
00:16:57
Speaker
Yeah, so yeah, back into your calendar. That's a great way to put it. So the first thing I would say is of course, read your contract and then communicate with your clients. Don't like start spewing all kinds of contract language their way. I think that's like step four or five in the communication string with your clients. Really listen here where they're at and work to be the best, you know, industry professional that you can.
00:17:23
Speaker
And then step two here is through that communication process. And of course you just want postponement, rescheduling, like at the forefront of both you and your client's mind. I am just, that is my take on this situation, Davey, other attorneys.
00:17:39
Speaker
might say something different. I don't think it's good business practice. And I can't morally and ethically suggest that to people. I think small businesses would go out of business. So I think that if ultimately what you have to do with a force majeure event is you have to try and cure performance, which means if you want to keep all of the fees that your clients have paid thus far, especially your retainer, the reservation fee, that's usually what we're talking about here. I understand under certain circumstances that some people have paid more than that, right?
00:18:08
Speaker
because maybe your wedding's coming up and your performance is supposed to happen this weekend. So usually, they probably have paid the full fee at that point. But just majority roles here. And generally speaking, we're kind of talking about this reservation fee.
00:18:23
Speaker
and retainer fee. If you want to keep that, you do still have to kind of cure your performance because at this point, you haven't performed all of your services. So I always say the best mutual resolution here is trying to come to an agreement on when you can reschedule the event. And even if you can't decide the date, because right now, it's so up in the air, right? Clients are working with venues. They might switch venues. They're working with their family members and friends. They're dealing with their own headache.
00:18:52
Speaker
Sometimes best practice here is just to come to that resolution that you're going to keep what they've paid as credit on their account for a certain amount of time, and you're just going to give them some breathing room on deciding when to reschedule the event or to possibly split up your fees. You're going to hold it on credit on your account.
00:19:15
Speaker
They might be able to use it for two hours here or a session here or you can expand the period of time that you'll allow them to use credit. That's where your business practices and just you put on your kind of moral ethical hats as a business owner there and that's going to differ per
00:19:33
Speaker
business owner. But that's step one and two, communicate with your clients and really try to reach a mutual resolution. Because at the end of the day, what you're dealing with is a risk assessment on your business. You are trying to avoid a legal situation in the future, i.e. a lawsuit. You're trying to avoid it. So to do that, you have to come to a mutual resolution with your clients.
00:19:56
Speaker
Yeah, and I like what you're saying there. I mean, just in terms of being of communicating because it's not just stressful for us as small business owners. It's, you know, this is a big life event for our clients as well. And so even that idea, I mean, that's interesting. Like if people can still go to the courthouse with parents and get married, and maybe you can, you know,
00:20:13
Speaker
show up and shoot that for an hour or two and then agree to shooting the rest of the hours at a reception at a later date. I mean, that could be a really great way to serve people well. And then also, again, it's more likely that you'll probably be able to keep any fees that you've collected to date doing that
Documenting Rescheduled Events Properly
00:20:30
Speaker
as well. I guess one of the most common questions I hear is, do you need to work out another agreement for the new date? Does that agreement just kind of roll over to the new date? Is it a matter of adding an addendum? What should people do
00:20:42
Speaker
as they sort out a new date? Yeah, this is the question, right? The one thing I will say to people is document everything. That's the most important thing you can do right now is email communication and documentation is fine, but once you get to that mutual resolution, you have to sign some type of addendum or termination agreement or rescheduling contract. I'm going to get into my three here and why I think each is important for various reasons.
00:21:12
Speaker
But make sure you sign that because that will mitigate.
00:21:17
Speaker
any potential legal issues in the future. So documentation is key here and legal documents are key to kind of have in your arsenal and legal toolkit is what I'm telling people. And one thing just to interject to between those two things, as you explain a little bit more about this addendum, you actually have these three addendums bundled in your shop over at the legal page. I know you probably wouldn't bring it up because I feel like you're always about just putting content out there, which is great and super helpful, but people should know they can head on over to your shop.
00:21:46
Speaker
I think it's on sale right now too for like $97. I think the price is actually something like 400. So if you're out there and you want a fix that was actually created by an attorney, then you should head over and check that out. And I'll be sure to put that in the show notes. Also be sure to post that in the comments of the live itself.
00:22:03
Speaker
But is there anything else that you want to mention about rescheduling in particular? I do have another scenario that I wanted to talk about in terms of rescheduling, especially when a date isn't available. One scenario I saw posted was that the date's not available, so that person was going to send an associate. And I'm just wondering, are people still obligated to honor the agreement if the photographer is going to send an associate? Even if maybe they don't have an associate photographer, they're just maybe hiring an associate photographer for this specific instance?
00:22:32
Speaker
Yeah. So there's all kinds of way to cure performance and mitigate circumstances here. And that's why I always say like you need to document all of the options that you're giving to your clients and people are being really creative on how they can really like offer things to their clients to get them to sign on to postponing and rescheduling. And oftentimes we just have to educate our clients, right? Like they, they just think like cancellation is the answer and like everybody's going to refund them.
00:22:58
Speaker
But once they start talking to vendors, they're like, okay, well actually there might be a better solution here. And so if you're doing something different with, you know, the services you're offering, maybe you're bringing on an associate, maybe you're adding on coverage, maybe you're splitting up coverage, maybe you're initiating, you know, safety measures where you're standing six feet away right now, and then later it's going to be different. Ultimately what I'm telling people, and I've just been spewing this across the board this week,
00:23:26
Speaker
is you want a rescheduling slash termination contract under pretty much every circumstance right now. And here's why. A contract addendum is essentially you saying that, okay, we have a rescheduling date. We're going to move my services to this date. They agreed to all fees paid for your services thus far will be transferred to your services on that new date.
00:23:51
Speaker
and that you're fully comfortable with what your existing contract states and you're willing to abide by all the terms and conditions in your existing contract. Obviously, when you're
00:24:03
Speaker
changing things out, you're adding in associates, you might be changing coverage. You might be changing the terms of your contract and Davey, like the fact of the matter is everybody is now looking at their contract and thinking, Oh crap, I probably need to change things in my contract because it's unclear to me.
Using Rescheduling to Update Agreements
00:24:22
Speaker
It's unclear to my clients. I probably need to add in some protection clauses to my existing contract.
00:24:28
Speaker
And really that all leads me to a contract addendum isn't appropriate for the majority of people. It might be for some. I'm not dispelling like you can't use a contract addendum, but I'm telling people a rescheduling contract is like the best thing to do right now because it really explains what you're doing with the fees they've paid.
00:24:49
Speaker
It holds it like on credit with you for a certain period of time and it terminates the existing contract. And so that allows you to sign on to new contracts as they use their credit. Whether that's one contract and maybe you bring an associate on board, you're going to need some clauses in this new contract related to the associate performing services under your business.
00:25:13
Speaker
and not you being the lead photographer, videographer, wedding planner, what have you. So yeah, that's why a rescheduling contract, we just call it the rescheduling contract. It's easy for people to understand, but I want you all to know it terminates and voids the existing contract. It releases you for performing services. It releases your clients from, you know, and you can decide mutually come to a decision with your clients on
00:25:39
Speaker
Are you going to still invoice, you know, future payments, or are you going to delay invoicing those payments? And that's really on a client by client basis. So that's when you would sign a rescheduling contract. And then the bundle also includes, like you were talking about, we, it feels weird to like be salesy. I just want people to have access to these legal documents as easy as possible. Like we're all in financial stress right now.
00:26:03
Speaker
So we've just, it's like 75% off. We just discounted the crap out of it, but you get all of these because you're going to have different client situations where you need a contract at random, where you need a rescheduling contract. And then I do include a cancellation termination contract in there just because like.
00:26:19
Speaker
you know, last resort if all else fails, you need to cancel the existing contract that you have. But then you can explain in there, you know, that you're only, say, keeping the retainer and you're refunding the remainder, whatever resolution you come to with your clients. But yeah, that was kind of a roundabout way of answering it. But usually I tell people rescheduling contract in like 90% of circumstances is your best option.
00:26:44
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And that makes a lot of sense, too. I mean, a lot of things that you brought up that I don't know if I would even have thought about, you know, for instance, like, are there special provisions in the in the rescheduling contract for associates who are going to take your place where maybe that wasn't initially the plan when the wedding was scheduled. So lots of that kind of stuff, which, you know, as you said, is probably better in serving your clients also probably better in peace of mind, having that spelled out and agreed to with your clients.
Rescheduling Challenges and Retainer Impacts
00:27:12
Speaker
I think, of course, the next situation is people are rescheduling a handful of weddings right now. I know that. At least one person I know rescheduling eight weddings is a lot, right? And there's going to be a few of those weddings likely where they're just not going to be able to work out a date that works for both parties because like you said, it's not just photographers, it's not just venues, it's a whole team of people that they're trying to get on the same page.
00:27:39
Speaker
I imagine a lot of the same stuff is true. I guess the secondary question I have to that is when you send over a cancellation contract so that everybody's on the same page, this date has been canceled, it's free for somebody else. What happens if maybe there's outstanding payment that's still due or maybe that person doesn't want to sign that contract because by signing that contract, they're giving up their retainer, which is not refundable. How do you go about dealing with that situation?
00:28:06
Speaker
Yeah, this is also the million dollar question this week. And I know it's an unfair question, right? I mean, this is like, it's a bad situation where somebody wants their retainer back. I mean, this crazy once in a lifetime, hopefully just once in a lifetime event has happened, right? I feel like that's an unfair question to lob at you. But from at least a legal perspective, how do you handle this where somebody might want their money back and they won't sign a cancellation agreement?
00:28:31
Speaker
Yeah. So, you know, under those circumstances, you really, you have to do a risk assessment on the situation. And that is what any attorney is going to do for you. So if you kind of want to DIY a legal risk assessment on your, on the client situation and this contract issue and fee issue, of course, I would always suggest if you're, if you're in like a really sticky situation, seek out an attorney that you can talk to, get some legal advice.
00:29:01
Speaker
But you can also do a risk assessment yourself. You always have the option to take your clients to collections. You always have the option to refund more than just the remainder of the balance beyond the retainer. Can you refund a portion of that? Will that satisfy your clients?
00:29:19
Speaker
You need to assess whether there's potential client backlash, whether there's bad spreading word of mouth. Are these clients super litigious? Is lawsuits going to be initiated against you? Some people, though, right now, Davey, this is a very business standpoint. Some people are like, my reputation, my standard, and my letter of my contract is more important. And if that's how you feel,
00:29:46
Speaker
then you need to be ready for a legal situation to come your way. You can't force your clients to sign something. It's just that's not how it works. Lawyers
00:29:57
Speaker
can't force their clients to do anything, but they always try to go to mediation, arbitration, they have a court decide for them. It's always about coming to a final decision, whether that's a mutual resolution and agreement, or if they don't want to sign the contract, then try to mitigate your risks as much as possible. Give retainers more than just the remainder balance back,
00:30:23
Speaker
Maybe look at giving a root portion of the retainer back just so you can avoid, they're not going to sign a contract. You're going to try to avoid what's going to happen in the future.
Legal Risks with Refunds
00:30:32
Speaker
So that's hopefully that was a good enough answer for you. It's different.
00:30:37
Speaker
It's different per client. It's facts and circumstance-based. It's really just a full legal assessment. And that is ultimately where attorneys are coming into play here. Yeah. And I think probably those two different situations we talked about, I'd assume 75% to 90% are dealing with where a wedding's been canceled and it either needs to be rescheduled or date can't be sorted out. So it needs to be canceled and the legal ramifications of all of that. And I think a lot of what we're talking about
00:31:06
Speaker
A lot of what's stressing people out, right, is some of the sticky situations that go with that. Like, do I refund the retainer? Well, it's non-refundable. And I have a business to run and I have payments that I've, you know, I've already maybe paid to fulfill, you know, certain services. Right. How do I go about that kind of stuff? I think one thing I was thinking was,
00:31:24
Speaker
I think something that maybe should be encouraging for some people is that even if you have an event cancel because you can't find a mutual date that works, everybody across the board is dealing with this. So I'm hoping that people see maybe an uptick in late bookings that they wouldn't otherwise get in a normal year because
00:31:42
Speaker
you know, they couldn't work out things with their photographer and so they're looking for a photographer last minute. So hopefully people will see sort of whatever they've lost in their calendar kind of rebook from other opportunities later in the year. But yeah, tough situation and unprecedented situation and grateful that we have people like you to turn to and ask these tough questions.
Military Clients and Travel Restrictions
00:32:04
Speaker
So are there any other scenarios that we should talk about that I'm leaving out that, you know, maybe unique scenarios that you've had to deal with this week that I just wouldn't know to ask about?
00:32:13
Speaker
Yeah, I have to actually that come to mind as we've been talking through all of these. So the first thing I just want to get rid of all this misinformation out there is if clients, if they don't work with you on rescheduling and they're like, this is my date. You're unavailable. Give me a full refund. Like that's not how it works. So people are like, well, in that case, you always have to give a refund. And I'm like, well, they didn't try to cure performance either on their part.
00:32:36
Speaker
This is a dual situation, dual issue. So stick to the letter of your contract, your kind of reservation, refundability, retainer policies. And then the second thing that's coming to mind right now, Davey, is the DOD orders that have been put into effect. So issues with military clients and
00:33:00
Speaker
There's a ton of questions out there on like, what do I do when now my clients for the foreseeable future can't leave, can't travel? So the DOD has implemented some very specific restrictions on travel.
00:33:13
Speaker
Of course, because it's really important to take care of our DOD members and the health and safety of obviously their entire communities. And under those are different. Like I think that is a, that's a bigger risk assessment on your business. And then those situations, I think you're looking more at kind of refunds and I'm not trying to make a blanket statement, but I just feel like military,
00:33:41
Speaker
orders and military issues and people are like planning weddings, but then they might be active and they may not be here. And those are questions that I'm seeing coming up a lot. They're like, there's just no way to reschedule. Like now it's not only impossible to hold the event, but it's impossible for them to reschedule based upon what their life is looking like for the next 12 to 24 months. And that is a different situation. So I would just say tread water carefully there and really try to
00:34:10
Speaker
Make the best decision for you and your clients.
00:34:12
Speaker
Honestly, Davey across the board as well, because there's no right or wrong answer, everyone also needs to realize that you have to give a little, you have to take a little, like the mutual resolution probably isn't going to be the best for everyone involved, right? Your clients are going to lose a little, you're going to lose a little, but coming to that mutual resolution, even if you're both losing a little bit is better just for everyone involved than waiting for a lawsuit later on.
00:34:41
Speaker
Yeah. And we actually just got a comment from somebody who is on a base and worried about a base lockdown and not being able to leave for appointments. And she's wondering what the best course of action for her would be. I guess as we talk about finding a cure, I think is how you've put it throughout this interview. She's asking, would the best course of action be to find an associate that can go fulfill those appointments? I assume that maybe even before that, it's just a matter of seeing if things can be rescheduled, but if not,
00:35:08
Speaker
I guess maybe the second best thing, especially if she wants to kind of keep that business in-house, so to speak, would to be find an associate. Yeah, I think those are two great options. And again, that's where I'm telling everyone like, try to give five different options and five different communication steps with your clients to try to get to some resolution. There's all kinds of different abilities for both parties to really cure performance here.
00:35:35
Speaker
But I just feel like military situations are a bit different and they may warrant
00:35:41
Speaker
kind of refunds a little bit more than other circumstances. Yeah, absolutely. Just because of the uniqueness of their situation, especially right now. As we wrap up here, if anybody out there listening live has any additional questions, feel free to post those. I think that you will have to post to kind of the original video here. So if this is being shared in different groups, I won't see those comments in those respective groups, so won't be able to ask those questions. But I do want to talk about your shop real quick.
00:36:09
Speaker
And again, because I know you're not going to self-promote, I'll do it for you. Because Chris and I, certainly over the past year, if we have a legal question, you've worked on stuff for us, different contracts for us, especially as we've grown our business. And if we just have a question, you're often the very first person that we email. And so we've been really grateful for the advice and direction that you've given us over the past year. So I can kind of attest as a happy client and customer,
00:36:32
Speaker
that your stuff is legit, right? But I think right now, you know, maybe the silver lining is this is forcing people in mass to go back and look at their contract. And even if they thought, okay, well, you know, I download this online, I think it's okay, you know, going back and like you said at the beginning of the interview, like, well, now they're reading it and they're realizing all of a sudden these clauses that looked really clear aren't that clear anymore to me.
00:36:53
Speaker
So I think it is an opportunity for people to go back and look through their contracts. And fortunately, people like you, Paige, who have a lot of great resources that people can go, some that you can download for free, others that you can purchase from your shop.
00:37:08
Speaker
And something like that $97 bundle you have in your shop, first of all, heavily discounted. And definitely, it's worth more than even their $400 original price right now, considering the amount of money that it could save you in headaches and potentially a legal situation down the road. Do you have any sort of encouragement or just advice for people in this situation now, things that they should do going forward when it comes to contracts in general?
Importance of Clear Contract Language
00:37:38
Speaker
Yeah, contracts in general, I mean, you hit the nail on the head there. I think people know that they kind of like thought they were important and they know they needed to have one. But of course, my little contract attorney heart is happy because people are like, oh, now, yeah, they are important. Now they're really important.
00:37:56
Speaker
The one thing I will tell people is legal mumbo jumbo legalese, as we call it, isn't like going to save you. And it actually isn't good to have in your contract and plain language, plain writing for attorneys is now the norm. And so if you have really confusing language in your contract, my overall suggestion is clean all that up. It's got to be really understandable to a lay person.
00:38:25
Speaker
Your clients need to understand and agree to every term and condition in the contract, and there's always that what-if situation of them arguing that they didn't understand what that meant. So if you don't understand it, your clients definitely don't understand it. If it's confusing to you, it's a good time to DIY a contract review.
00:38:45
Speaker
on your existing client contract, really bulk it up. You know, we have protection clauses, DV on the legal page shop too. We kind of put that bundle together last week when we were in the state of who knows what's going to happen. And so everyone's kind of, they're seeing like, okay, we need to add in these protection clauses. I wholeheartedly believe in two-sided contracts. They hold up better in court.
00:39:07
Speaker
Your clients need to have rights and obligations under your contract as well as of course you as a service provider. Like it's more heavily weighted towards you because it's your contract. But just, you know, look for things like.
00:39:18
Speaker
maximum damages and limitations of liability for kind of consequential or incidental damages. Look at your force majeure clause. You probably need to update it and shout out here to HoneyBook. I've been working with HoneyBook and they have a force majeure clause that we worked on together. It's a template clause.
00:39:37
Speaker
You can go get it. Again, you can tell I'm not like really into self promotion right now because I'd rather you just go get it for free. So bulk up that clause, you know, add in language to that clause related to your business practices with the refundability of a retainer or reservation fee. Ensure that it probably is the non-refundable retainer still applies under those circumstances. Like that's con language that's missing from contracts.
00:40:02
Speaker
You know, safe working environment clause, failure to perform services clause. I'm not going to get into the details here, but you guys like, we have a free resource as well. That's a PDF. It's a checklist of you making sure all these clauses are in your contract. So tons of valuable contract information at the legal page.com. We are just a legal educational resource for people. And I want people to have access to legal education because it's really, really hard for online entrepreneurs and, you know, event industry professionals to get.
00:40:32
Speaker
And a lot of us don't have money to expend, you know, 250 to $500 an hour is a lot for us. So we know people don't just call an attorney up all the time. And that's scary. People are really scared to do that. And I, I don't, I don't want that to happen. I want there to be a safe place to discuss all these things. So.
00:40:49
Speaker
I guess that's my final answer on this. Yeah, and I think that should be a lot of people's step right now, even if they feel that their contract is rock solid, maybe heading on over to your website, getting that PDF, going through it and just making sure that includes those clauses.
Updating Contracts Mid-Agreement
00:41:01
Speaker
And I guess kind of as a follow-up question to that and one to end on, is it now too late, especially as you're sending, as people might be sending rescheduling contracts, is now too late to kind of readdress some of those situations?
00:41:13
Speaker
I feel like maybe in part that could come off as it could be disconcerting to clients. This contract that you're sending me now for this new date is completely different than the old one. At the same time, I guess the argument could be made, well, you got to protect your business. Just because you sent over a bad contract the first time doesn't mean that you have to send over a bad contract the second time. But what do you say about that?
00:41:37
Speaker
Yeah, twofold here. The first, in terms of answering that specific question, it's fine, right? You update contracts all the time. You just take it as, as it comes. You say we've updated our contract since we signed last year. We've updated it as of 2020. Like that happens all the time across the board. You guys just think about how many times you're agreeing to new terms and conditions on your smartphone with various applications. So it's that is business practice. Just do it.
00:42:06
Speaker
It's okay. You shouldn't get any backlash. The second thing I was going to say though, Davey, and this is a good thing to end on. People have asked me a lot like, Oh my gosh, well, what do I do with clients that are in like June or July or August or September? Like, do I update an existing contract with them? You can do anything you want, but I also think the same kind of mindset applies, right? Your clients are going to be leery. There is a little disconcerting. Why are they getting an updated contract? You guys just be clear.
00:42:35
Speaker
Communication-wise, you're sitting down with your clients at a coffee shop, being like, here is what's in this contract. Walk them through it. Don't just send it over willy-nilly and be like, sign your life away. Point them to, I've updated my contract. Here are some clauses that we've updated, and here's what they mean in layperson terms. So those are my last thoughts on signing and updating new contracts for the future.
00:43:00
Speaker
Sure. And I think especially in light of everything that's going on right now that if people are going to understand, they're going to understand now if they were to get a new contract, even if maybe their date hasn't been affected. And some people might even appreciate it because who knows God willing that this ends soon and that we get to get back to normal life in the near future.
00:43:20
Speaker
you know, there's always a chance that we're dealing with this for the next few months. So it's good to be prepared for those things. And Paige, I want to thank you again. I know that this is just a crazy busy time for you. So I want to thank you for taking the time to show up and just kind of give away all of this great content
00:43:37
Speaker
There's great content on your website, on your blog specifically right now. There's a blog post. So if you're listening and you want this laid out in sort of a linear format, like I will link to Paige's blog post that she wrote on this topic in the show notes for sure so that you can access that. I'll also link to some of the resources that we mentioned from Paige's shop so that even if you're just, you know, now you're in the market for a new wedding photography website, that's a place that you want to go and check out.
00:44:03
Speaker
Thanks again, Paige, for your time. I really appreciate it. Always a pleasure to have you on the podcast. Yes, thank you so much, Davey. It's been awesome. Thanks for tuning in to the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to daveyandchrista.com.
00:44:32
Speaker
you