Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to episode 99 of Outnumbered the Podcast. Today we have the second in our marriage series for you and it's about four things that you should not do in marriage. But don't worry, we're not going to just leave you hanging by telling you what not to do. We've got an antidote for each of these don'ts to help you make sure that your marriage is successful. We hope you enjoy this second episode in our marriage series.
Speaker: Hello and welcome to Outnumber the Podcast. I'm Bonnie. And I'm Audrey. We're experienced moms to a combined total of 18 children. Our mission is to help overwhelmed parents find peace in parenting and humor in the chaos. Come join us as we attempt uninterrupted conversation about parenting with joy and intention.
Speaker: Okay. And we're back with this is episode 99 and we have a kind of a neat episode for you guys today. We have packed this one with content. It's our second in our marriage series and we can't wait to dig into it. But first Bonnie has a fun mom moment for you. Yeah. I guess my kids haven't been very funny lately because
Speaker: I couldn't come up with anything funny for you guys. But I do have a fun moment that we did last night. It actually was quite hilarious to see my kids do this little activity that we did. Monday nights, we try to do like a little family night where we have just something to do together and connect. And my husband's idea was to get down some of my old pictures of just my own childhood and teens and show the kids.
Speaker: And so we ended up looking through some older family photos as well. So they got to see themselves as little kids and their cousins as little kids. But probably the best part was a handful of pictures I pulled out from my college days. A friend of mine had taken pictures of me opening a really important piece of mail. So I went on a service mission for my church.
Speaker: And they don't tell you where you're going ahead of time, and you don't get to request. You just apply, and they send you an assignment. And so it was a total surprise. And so they took a picture of me opening this envelope of where I was going to spend the next year and a half. And I made the ugliest face I've probably ever made ever in my life. And of course, my roommate snapped the photo right then. And my kids, I thought they were going to die. They were laughing their heads off. So we all had a good laugh at mom's expense because she looked really ugly in the picture.
Speaker: Okay, let's just put it that way. Yeah, I in the 80s wore the big 80s glasses, so my kids love to look at those pictures too. All right, so today we're going to talk about four things not to do in your marriage.
Speaker: This seems kind of negative, but we didn't come up with these ourselves. There were two professors that did an epic, oh man, in -depth study. I don't even know how many years a study went. And they discovered four specific behaviors that lead partners to divorce over time. And so these are the four topics that we're going to address today. These four behaviors, contempt, criticism, defensiveness, and stonewalling.
Speaker: Yeah, they're kind of some big words. But I was just fascinated that the research show that they could predict divorce up to like 90 percent accuracy if they witnessed a handful of these of these negative behaviors. So we thought we'd dive deep on them, figure out what they are, and then also figure out the four do's to counteract these negative behaviors instead of just saying don't do this. All right. So let's dive right in because we like we said, we have a lot of content to cover this time. We're going to try to get through all of them.
Speaker: Let's start with contempt. Don't do contempt. So first of all, we're going to define each of these terms. So what is contempt? Contempt is feelings of disdain, scorn, dishonor, disrespect. It's feeling like superiority over the other person, over your spouse.
Speaker: Right. And contempt looks like sarcasm, maybe some mocking, some eye rolling, being condescending or mimicking. In fact, when I think of contempt, I think of a teenager who knows better than everyone and is giving some sass to a teacher he doesn't like. That's what I think of when I think contempt. And sadly, sometimes that can enter into a marriage, too. Yeah. All right. So what is the antidote for contempt?
Speaker: Um, we think the antidote for contempt is respect. So sometimes, you know, you're in, in the heart of it and it's really hard, but we would offer you that if you can just find a tiny thing that you can respect in your spouse, then focus on that. If you're stuck in the cave of contempt, um, find, find something to respect. Surely, surely you can. And of course, of course love is a second contender here, but sometimes love seems really big and, um,
Speaker: abstract and so respect is maybe a little bit easier to grab onto and start with. So if you can just find something, one thing in your spouse to respect that has to come first and then love will follow later after you do some practice on adding respect into your relationship. Oh, I love that you phrased it like that because I think that we think that love will solve everything and while it is a very powerful emotion, I can love someone and not respect them.
Speaker: In fact, there are probably quite a few people in my life like that. And so in order to have a perfect, well, not perfect, as close as we can come to a perfect, wonderful marital relationship, we have got to respect the person that we're married to first. And then love will find a place, right? We can always love them, but sometimes there's even contempt even when love is there. It's just not being practiced very well, right? Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, so a few thoughts I have on countering contempt is to check your own thought process. So very often when these negative emotions and actions start coming out of us towards our spouse, it's because we've been harboring negative thoughts towards our spouse for a long time. And something like contempt might be focused specifically on a behavior that you're seeing in your spouse. He is being
Speaker: not helpful around the house. And so you're being contemptuous because you're like, what am I going to do everything around here? Am I your slave, et cetera, et cetera? But clearly, you have a negative thought process that you are holding onto really tightly. And that might look something like, he doesn't care about me. That's why he doesn't sweep the floor. That's why he doesn't help out to the extent that I think he should, et cetera. And so much of that we have control over. We have control over all our thoughts, right? If we can change that thought process and find another
Speaker: thought that is a little bit nicer towards our spouse, but still a believable one. You know, we can't necessarily just change or go right from, he doesn't help out around the house too. He's the best spouse ever. We probably don't believe that, but we could change it too. He works really hard for our family and he's tired when he comes home or something similar, a believable thought that will help eliminate some of that poison that we're infiltrating into our own thoughts.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, I really like that, how you said that, how we go from a thought that's a believable thought, because that's like training our mind to do the right thing, to be respectful. And so if we go to like a neutral thought or a believable thought, that's like a step toward respect and a step away from contempt, which is really the right direction. Yeah. We wanted to address for just a second, sometimes
Speaker: Contempt is something that we don't express to our spouse, but there's a danger of us, okay, let's face it, women, we do this. We express contempt about our spouse or annoyances or grievances. We express this to others, our mom, our sister, our best friend. Okay, so just don't do it.
Speaker: Maybe you think, I'm not being contemptuous because I'm not saying it to my spouse, but just don't do it. It's contempt if it's expressed to your spouse or about your spouse. So the better thing to do rather than to find somebody who you can express your contempt to and they'll share your secret or whatever.
Speaker: Find somebody who respects your spouse. If you're having trouble respecting your spouse, find someone who you know respects your spouse and get them to share with you their thoughts and their reasons and just draw them out on that respect. And then maybe you can start to enter in and see it from another person's point of view. It's just much more leaning into respect and away from contempt. Oh, I like that.
Speaker: Yeah, and to be aware of, again, the thought process that if you feel like you need to express those feelings to someone else, it's because you're already holding on to them inside your own mind. And you can start there by eliminating them before they get out of control.
Speaker: Okay, so moving on to number two, which is criticism. Probably I would say the number one that most of us find ourselves falling into, right? The definition of criticism looks a little bit like this. It's the expression of disapproval of someone or something based on perceived faults or mistakes. Notice how I emphasize that perceived word.
Speaker: Yeah, so what does criticism look like in a marriage? Probably, you all know this. It looks like pointing out their mistakes, discounting their thoughts or feelings or ideas. A character attack, like we've talked about in our previous marriage episode on communication, we talked about using I statements instead of you statements. So the you statements are character attack, usually criticism. Having a negative focus and like word darts.
Speaker: Yeah, really, criticism is any word, any word, any phrasing, any talk that is intended to wound, right? Yeah.
Speaker: So our antidote for criticism is thankfulness. I mean, I'm sure there are others as well, but that's what we thought about because if we are feeling thankful and grateful for our spouse and what they do and who they are, then the criticism just kind of floats away, right? We need to find something good first that we can latch onto and honestly be grateful for. And there is always something there. Sometimes you might take some digging if things have been bad for a while, but we can always choose to focus on the positive.
Speaker: Yes. Yeah. And one thing about this, um, some thoughts I had on countering criticism is like allowing the other person to do things that make a positive difference. Like, I don't know how often maybe, maybe you've never done this, but maybe like you're in such a critical state of mind that you just don't even allow your spouse to do anything to make a positive difference or, or
Speaker: Change that mindset in your mind so just like back off from that critical mind space and allow your spouse like like look for them look for positive things they're doing instead of looking for the negative things we're doing it's it's like our focus right so
Speaker: even if they're not trying to do a positive thing, we're trying to see them do a positive thing. Right. Right. And I think as women, especially if we're the primary homemaker, when our spouse tries to pitch in in our quote unquote domain, you know, with the housework or the or the cooking or something that we immediately find fault because that's not the way we do it. Right. Here's just an example.
Speaker: on Sundays, I almost always give Luke the responsibility of cooking dinner because I'm just done and I want to relax and whatever. And he enjoys it and he loves to give me a chance to take a break, et cetera. And so Sunday, I was just kind of making sure that was going to happen. I said, you're going to be responsible for dinner, right? And he said, yeah, I think I'll just pull the frozen lasagna out of the freezer and cook that. And my immediate thought was, well, that's easy.
Speaker: He's taking over dinner for me and I'm criticizing the way he's doing it because it's not hard enough, which is really silly, right? So yeah, to look for the positive, to look for the good and to be so grateful for what you do have in your spouse.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. I have an example, a cooking dinner example too. So my husband has often said, if you don't feel like cooking a meal, don't cook the meal. Just let me know and I'll cook it. And because his position is that if you don't feel like cooking, you're not going to cook something that's very good. And he really enjoys cooking and
Speaker: And so he would, you know, cook something. So sometimes I'll be getting ready. Oh, you know, it's time to make dinner. And I've just be like, well, you know, and then this thought will pop into my mind what my husband said. I'll be like, oh, but if I ask him now, it's going to be like eight o 'clock before we get to eat dinner. So same thing like this, like this criticism immediately jumps in instead of, wow, I have this option. That's really amazing that my husband has said, anytime you don't want to cook, just let me know and I'll do it.
Speaker: Why do we do that? We like to find fault sometimes. Our last side note regarding criticism is again, like Audrey said with contempt, what happens when we are tempted to be critical outside of the marriage or we are fielding criticism from someone else in regards to our spouse. This is a tricky one because
Speaker: Because we know our spouse better than anyone else, oftentimes if we hear criticism about them, we might tend to agree. Oh, you think that's bad? Well, you haven't seen him leave his socks around. And yet it is our...
Speaker: Honor and responsibility to stand up for our spouse and to be on his side whether the criticism is true or not whether you agree with it or not because sometimes you might and that's a hard thing to do especially if it's a like you said a girlfriend or a sister or someone that you trust and love and you wanna just be a little cranky today together.
Speaker: Any one of those little conversations can create fault lines in your marriage. And then you're remembering those words and that criticism that you agreed with when you go back to be in that sacred space with your spouse. And that's some dangerous stuff. So just don't allow it.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Something I think about in a situation like that is how would I want my spouse to respond to somebody if they were saying something, expressing criticism about me? Like how am I hoping that my spouse will respond and then try to respond like that? Because I like, I want my spouse to defend me if someone else is criticizing me or not, you know, not plant a seed in his mind that's going to create a division, a fault line you said in our marriage.
Speaker: All right, we're going to move on to number three, defensiveness. Don't do defensiveness. So defensiveness is defined as the quality of being anxious to challenge or avoid criticism. And it can also be the behavior intended to defend or protect yourself. So defensiveness, think of what just exactly what it sounds like warding off an attack. Right.
Speaker: So what this looks like in a relationship is self -protection, victimhood, blaming others, formulating your own response while the other person is still talking instead of doing active listening. I've never done that before. Protective body language, we've all seen this, right? You're sitting on the couch and your arms are crossed and your legs are crossed and your brow is crossed and you're very defensive, right?
Speaker: Yeah, so this doesn't sound like it's hurting a marriage. It sounds like it's sticking up for yourself, right? Defensiveness is the most subtle, I think, of the four don'ts in marriage because you can justify yourself. I mean, that's what it's all about, is justifying yourself. I'm just sticking up for myself. I'm just not letting them say something bad about me. So we're going to try to open up a little bit and share with you why defensiveness is so
Speaker: harmful to a marriage, to a relationship. So the antidote for defensiveness is vulnerability. So vulnerability is, yeah, I know. It's the willingness and courage to feel any emotion. It's listening without getting defensiveness. It's willing to hear hard things about yourself because you know that your spouse loves and cares for you.
Speaker: Yeah, ooh, vulnerability. If you've ever read or listed Brene Brown at all, you know a little bit about vulnerability and how powerful she talks about it. She says that vulnerability and blame are kind of the polar opposites, right? When you don't have vulnerability, then you blame others for things that are going wrong. And what I really love is her definition of blame, which is discharging pain and discomfort.
Speaker: So if you find that you're on this kind of blame cycle, you know, something bad goes wrong in your marriage, you feel defensive and the first thing you want to do is blame the other person or blame the kids or blame that you're tired or whatever, then it's probably just because something that your spouse is saying or something that you're feeling is true.
Speaker: where you feel that it's true and you don't want to feel that pain. You don't want to feel responsible for the negative experience that you're going through with your spouse or maybe negative feelings that he's having and so you discharge that pain by blaming someone or something outside of yourself.
Speaker: And it is a hard thing to stop doing for sure, especially if you've been doing it for a long time. We are going to include a link in the show notes for an awesome life coach school episode about victim mentality versus vulnerability. And it is so powerful. We really recommend that you guys go listen to that right after this.
Speaker: because she really breaks it down and shows you how being vulnerable in a relationship is crucial. And it is actually the opposite of being a victim. It's not the same at all. So really recommend that. Yeah, that one, like when I listened to that episode, it like opened amazing, empowering doors in my mind. Like suddenly I was in control of my own thoughts, feelings, emotions, and
Speaker: nobody else was in control of that, which is just so empowering and also a little scary and vulnerable feeling when you're taking control of the way that you feel and not blaming it on anyone else. It's like it's so powerful and you're in a very vulnerable spot when you're doing that as well.
Speaker: So now we want to talk a little bit about defensiveness, and again, expressing this outside of your relationship to others. So you can always find somebody to take your side. He did this, she did that, and I was so hurt, and you can always find somebody to take your side. But can you find somebody, can you have somebody in your relationship that can help you empower yourself?
Speaker: um to help you become less of a defensive person and more of a vulnerable person and if this person can't be your spouse because of you know whatever you're you're just in a defensive position with them can you find somebody maybe to go on a on a journey with you to help you become
Speaker: a better person and empower yourself and step out of the victim defensive blame mentality and into the vulnerable empowered personality part of you because it's there. I mean, it really is. I just get so passionate thinking about this part because I think
Speaker: Um, if, if one of these four things that we're talking about today, like I'm getting real vulnerable here, but if one of these four things that we were talking about today has been the problem in my marriage, it's been me stepping into a place of defensiveness. And just in the past, I don't know, couple of years, I've been able to just become empowered and be able to step out of the victim, the blame place and, and become
Speaker: vulnerable and empowered. And I don't know, I hope my husband would agree, but I feel like in the past couple of years since I've been doing this, that I've just like, our relationship has just like skyrocketed.
Speaker: Yeah, I think that's so powerful to understand, like you said, your power in the relationship and how much is up to you. My husband and I have been talking a lot about victim mentality lately. And I said that I was really, I recently said I was really grateful that I felt that I had made a lot of progress in this area. And that I no longer, you know, blamed everything outside of me for when I had a bad day or things weren't going well. And he goes, yeah, you've come a long way. I'm like, what do you mean?
Speaker: Wait, Bonnie, don't go there. Don't go there. Say that again. No, but he started explaining to me some early behaviors, some behaviors I'd had in our early marriage that I did not consider to be part of that victim mentality, but they so were. And one of them was just complaining in general. I don't think I complained a lot about him because, you know, we had a pretty smooth, easy marriage period. But I complained about everything else. And he says, I just felt
Speaker: responsible all the time, like, well, how can I fix these problems for her when it was just me being uncomfortable with one thing or another and finding something to blame? If I could complain about the weather, then it wasn't my fault that I was uncomfortable. If I could blame this, then it wasn't my fault for this, et cetera. And I was really grateful for that kind of eye -opening look and to give myself another chance to look at what I'm doing today and see if there is any more of that victim mentality in there.
Speaker: One last thought I want to say in regards to your comment about that defensiveness outside of the relationship is, I think we all can identify certain friends and family members that will allow us
Speaker: to express negative comments about our spouse and those who will not, right? I know that some of my best friends are the ones that just kind of shut down those conversations because they don't do that with their spouse and so I'm not tempted to complain or criticize around them. We build each other up and we build each other's spouses up, etc.
Speaker: But there are some that would allow me to go on and on. And so I try to never start those conversations with those people because I know that I could be drawn to that negative space.
Speaker: Yeah, I have made it a point in my life not to be a sounding board for people on their gripes about their spouse. I have maybe nipped a lot of relationships or friendships in the bud because
Speaker: someone was looking for, I want to gripe about my spouse. I need a sounding board kind of person. And I just, man, I just early on saw that I need to have positive relationships in my life, even with people who are other people who are in positive relationships and not be. So yeah, I mean, think about who your friends are and what you talk about with them and who can you find to help empower you and build you up and build up your spouse too.
Speaker: And just create those boundaries for yourself. I will never talk about my spouse in a derogatory manner with anybody else.
Speaker: Okay, so we are going to move on to the fourth one, which is stonewalling. So this one, um, maybe you have, or maybe you haven't heard this term before, but basically what it looks like is just withdrawing from interaction from your spouse, kind of closing yourself off, right? Um, blocking a person, a request, a process by refusing to answer questions or giving evasive replies. I'm sure we've all done this and hopefully not with our spouses, but
Speaker: Just kind of like, what do you mean? Let's talk about something else or just turn and walk away.
Speaker: Right, right. That's what stonewalling looks like. Looks like ignoring the silent treatment. Being emotionally flooded is another form of stonewalling. So just completely out of control emotionally is another way of building a wall because it's not an exchange of thoughts and feelings. It's just emotional flooding. Walking away, shutting down, or here's a really subtle one. Being on your phone.
Speaker: It's a dangerous signaling, even if it's not on purpose, like you're just on your phone. It's dangerous signaling, it's dangerous body language to be in the same room as somebody. I know this is so common in our day that everybody's on their phone, but it is a form of putting a wall between you and the other person as if there's a, I don't know, maybe we should call it stone phoning.
Speaker: I'm so glad you brought that up because like you say so many times I think we do this without even realizing that all of a sudden conversation gets uncomfortable or boring or I don't know you just start hearing instead of your spouse you start hearing the teacher from peanuts.
Speaker: But yeah, that is a very powerful message being sent to the other person that they don't matter and their thoughts are not important to you. So if you are going to have an important conversation or even a casual conversation that starts turning to something important, maybe you just put your phone in another room so you're not even tempted. I love that.
Speaker: So, some antidotes for stonewalling, taking responsibility for your own actions and feelings and self -care. So, if you know that you need to talk something out and the other person doesn't realize how important it is to you that speak up, right? I've had to do this before like, oh, hey, I know you're kind of distracted right now. You've got your phone out or the TV's on or whatever. Can we talk for a few minutes?
Speaker: right now or in 10 minutes or something and we can put away distractions and you can demand the attention you need for an important topic or you're feeling some heavy feelings and you feel like the person is kind of stonewalling you whether on purpose on purpose or not you have the right and the responsibility to stand up and say hey I don't feel like I'm being listened to right now let's let's fix that.
Speaker: Yeah, I have some thoughts on countering stonewalling because, okay, they say that this one is kind of like the last step before the divorce goes out. I mean, the marriage goes out the door and enters into divorce is like stonewalling. So if you see these behaviors, like these are really childish behaviors.
Speaker: How do I say it? Just be an emotional adult. If you see some of these coming in, put out the red flags. This is warning signs, people. If you're doing this or if your spouse is doing this. So be an emotional adult, first of all. We could link that Life Coach School episode on emotional adulthood. I think we have linked that one at least once before.
Speaker: Come on, take responsibility for your own feelings. And then we're responsible for keeping ourselves in a good and positive space. Don't put that on your spouse. Self -care is your own responsibility. That's why it's called self -care. So if you want flowers to make you feel better, buy yourself flowers. Don't put that on your spouse. You can't make me feel better unless, you know, buy me flowers and make me feel better. I mean, if they want to buy you flowers, then they can buy you flowers. But if you want flowers to feel better, go get flowers.
Speaker: It's just putting your emotional stability in someone else's lap when you're not even very good at it yourself is not very fair. Wow, I love that. And I think we women are really guilty of this. And I'm going to say some hard things here, but why do we expect our husbands to pay more attention to our emotional well -being than we are even paying to it, right? Like if we are not taking time each and every day,
Speaker: to care for ourselves physically and emotionally and mentally. Why do we expect him to just show up with some grand gesture and make everything better? It's not going to happen, right? I love that you said that our self -care and our emotional well -being is primarily our responsibility. You know, and I've had, I think the early years of marriage are often like this for many people. And then when I realized, oh, he has different expectations than I do. And when I need something specific, I'm going to tell him or I'm going to go out and get it myself.
Speaker: And so I do that a lot. An example I can share is our Friday night dates. So we have a pretty standing, pretty long standing tradition of going on dates on Friday nights. And many times he comes home on Friday and I can tell that he's tired and that he'd probably just like to sit and put his feet up and kind of veg out at home. But he knows that it's important to me and I've made it non -negotiable. And so nine times out of 10, we leave the house because mom needs to.
Speaker: And if he needs something different, then we can come up with a compromise. But if I were to always lean into his own emotions and say, well, you look tired. I guess we don't have to go anywhere. When I really want it, that doesn't serve anybody, right? Then I just have contempt. Just get better because I didn't get the thing that I really needed because I didn't stand up for it.
Speaker: Okay, final thought about stonewalling, how to deal with it from others. Okay, in this regard, it's important to remember that every person has different ways of communicating, right? So referring back to our last marriage episode about communication. Sometimes I will see stonewalling or what I think is stonewalling from another person and only later realize that that's just how they communicate. They need some quiet and silence, like we talked about, Audrey, like the difference between our spouses, right?
Speaker: My spouse needs some silence and quiet to process his emotions and his thoughts before we can talk about it. And so I've now been able to give him that space and then we come circle back around and talk about it later when before I kept pushing because I thought he was trying to block me out, you know, like, no, we got to talk about this. But he needed time to process that. It's also possible that if you allow stonewalling into your marriage,
Speaker: especially if it's your spouse stonewalling you, that you would go look for a place to communicate your frustrations outside of the marriage, right? There are quite a few negative ways of processing through stonewalling. We have to make sure that we are choosing the positive ones. Yeah, yes, that is so true. All right, so some final thoughts on these four
Speaker: don'ts for marriage. We did want to cover these in one of our early episodes on marriage because we just want to get, we just want to get past it. But I think we all know that none of these contempt, criticism, defensiveness, stonewalling, I think we pretty much all know that this is not going to help a relationship, none of these. And so
Speaker: If we can maybe memorize or internalize the antidotes to each of them, and every time we find ourselves, you know, slipping toward defensiveness or sliding into criticism, then just pull up the antidote and just spend five minutes doing that. And like all of us actively work toward getting our marriages into the positive space and toward the things that
Speaker: Like, you know, you're not right when you're doing that, when you're criticizing your spouse. Like, how can that help a relationship? Right. I mean, it just can't. And so we just encourage our listeners as we're to do what we're trying to do. And every time we spot one of these things coming up just to apply the antidote, just as if that was a snake bite and that poison is going to kill us. All right. Shoot in some of the antidote because we want to survive. We want this marriage to survive. Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker: Yeah, and I just want to go circle back one more time about that comment you had about being an emotional adult.
Speaker: It requires massive amounts of emotional adulthood to survive in a marriage. When things start feeling, like I said, those poisonous thoughts start coming in, stop and realize that you are in control of those and you are an adult and you get to choose how to feel and you get to choose how to think. And if you constantly feel those thoughts coming back, then something needs change, right? You need to make some different decisions on how you want to think about your spouse so that you can
Speaker: move into that solution space into a more positive space, like you said.
Speaker: So we're going to link the original research that we found on these four top scientific reasons why marriages fail. We're going to link another article that we found that these are on the Gottman Institute. They called these the four horsemen and they have in -depth articles on each one. If you find yourself one of these that you're really struggling with, go check it out in depth on this. And then we're going to link those life coach school episodes that we mentioned about vulnerability versus victim mentality and emotional adulthood.
Speaker: Thanks so much for tuning in. Did you know you can help the podcast in several ways? First up, we're on Patreon, and there are three different levels to support us there. Just head to patreon .com slash outnumbered. Next step, if you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a written review on iTunes. It helps other parents find the podcast and receive the help you're enjoying. And finally, you can follow us on Instagram at Outnumbered the Podcast. We're always having fun over there too.
Speaker: As usual, if you have any questions or ideas for future episodes, you can reach us at outnumberthepodcastatgmail .com. Thanks for all your support. We'll talk to you next week.
Speaker: Oh.
