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Modern Socialization and Community in Games
13 Plays4 months ago
Join Dave and Jake as they talk about social interactions, novelty in games, recommending games to others, and our guesses for the NEXT BIG THING in this week's episode!
Intro:
- The Sims 4 - It's the Sims (Calm Version)
Outro:
- The Sims 4 - It's the Sims (Full Version)
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Transcript
Introductions and Morning Routine
00:00:27
Speaker
How's it going everyone? Welcome to another episode of Soapstone. My name is Jake, and I am joined by my co-host who's always Dave. How's it going today, Dave? It's cold. It's cold outside. We stay inside.
00:00:42
Speaker
Dog needs the pee. We go outside. Don't want to survive anymore. I don't want to out you immediately, but I noticed you sent a Discord message at 644 in the morning in response to something that was sent late last night. And I was like, yeah, Dave is. Dave is doing the ah the the mandatory dog walk thing, I think.
00:01:05
Speaker
Well, I mean, I woke up just a little bit before my alarm at 7 and then I was like, well, I want to get up out of bed yet, so I'm just going to chill here. I was like, oh, let me just check my phone for anything. And then I saw, I think, Mango some message at like 1 a.m. One. Yeah. It was the time that I was already going to be way asleep. So let me just respond to that now before I forget. Yeah. No, it's fair. And I mean, it's not like I don't wake up for Discord messages. like I don't have some sort of crazy alarm or anything like that. so um But it is funny to be the person waking up closer to like 11 a.m. on the weekend and see that the conversations were picking up at six and change. Closer to seven, but you know. Did you guys also get snow?
00:01:56
Speaker
um We got a bit. It didn't stick super long, but there was enough on like the trash can and recycling can that like I'm not bringing these into the garage. I left them outside to like I'll have to flip it up. One of them had
Snow and Its Impact on Daily Life
00:02:10
Speaker
the lid open, so I gotta get like the water out. It's just the ah the least advisable container to like gather water in a survivable survivability situation. Survival situation. um But yeah, otherwise it's it's it's melted off pretty quick. It was nice, it was pretty for a bit.
00:02:30
Speaker
Yeah. Um, I like really just the snowfall itself where everything's still clean. There's not been any human interaction as far as just foot traffic or vehicles and kicking stuff up from the road. Also again, the dog loves, loves weather.
00:02:48
Speaker
Yeah, that's always nice. i do i mean I think it's pretty common to like the look of things blanketed in snow, especially if you live like in a city or near a city and you're like, well, for a brief period of time, I don't see everything that people have done, right? and The weather's keeping people inside. It's quieter. It's more relaxing, hopefully. As long as you have heating, which is good, I had um co-worker who like briefly lost power um And they live in part of the country where it's a bit colder, you know closer a little bit more South yes. Yeah. Yeah, I think so um ah You know if you get close enough to the equator then it's like okay warmer, right um But I also know that like
00:03:41
Speaker
lakes can have an effect. It's Minnesota, right? So Minnesota is one of those places that's known for like, our winters kill people. And I'm like, I would not want the rights of a state. yeah I would not want, I would not want my heat to cut out then. Cause it was like 40 degrees here
Cold Weather Preparedness and Reflections
00:04:00
Speaker
and like under 30 there.
00:04:02
Speaker
or something like that. yeah That's disgusting. Yeah, because like I grew up in Pennsylvania, so I'm used to cold weather to a degree um where I can like walk around in 50s, 40s for a period of time. Like I can admit it's cold, but I'm not going to die yet. And you started getting to like 30s and 20s where we are now. I literally have to wear multiple light like I was going out with three pairs of pants and at least four or five shirts. Mm hmm.
00:04:31
Speaker
I mean, some of these are actual like jackets. It is ah not just me layering T-shirts and booking it outside. Right. And it's the four Hawaiian trains. Yeah. I can't stay warm. This windshield's a bitch. but No, it's just, ah yeah, the older I get, the less I'm like, hmm, this is a fun thing. I'm just like, oh, it's cold and will not interfere with my day to day.
00:04:58
Speaker
Yeah, I think the last time that I i really appreciated snow specifically was at college um because like I've always liked like, OK, snowfall happened. All right. Making a snowman. I'm just going to go make a snowman. I think I talked about this years ago on the podcast as we were going through therapy.
00:05:22
Speaker
um But like I did that at the the the college we both went to. And um it survived for like a couple classes. And then it came out and like someone had run out and destroyed it or whatever. And you know it was like i got a I'm reflecting on the duality of man and you know human nature and stuff like that.
00:05:43
Speaker
um I'm like, you know what? People in life really are separated in two groups, the people who would build snowmen and the people who would destroy them for gratification. and so Like my mind goes to like some stereotypical like douchebag who's like, hey, Barbara, check this out. And then he like it kicks down some of them. She's like,
00:06:04
Speaker
Tommy, you stop doing that. A greaser. Yeah, something like that. Where it's like if I didn't make something, especially if it's like a public space, I'm not going to go fuck with it. Yeah. Like even if somebody like made ah snow shapes in my quote unquote backyard, I'm like, oh, cool. And I'll just try and not knock it over with the dog. Yeah.
Ethics and Delivery in Snowy Weather
00:06:30
Speaker
yeah I mean I do think I would expect it more if it was like finals week or something because maybe this maybe this pulled someone back from the edge maybe they needed this right they had they had to release this stress and this violent urge I can either kill a person or a snow person please yeah yes in which case worthy sacrifice but I don't think it was It actually might have been close to finals week. Maybe that was, maybe that was the justification. I'm trying to imagine if this, if the snowman wasn't around what they would do, would they just have like a gallon of water?
00:07:06
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I got to destroy this this h2o, but then it's liquid state instead. Uh-huh. Yeah Yeah, it wasn't gonna it was never gonna last for that long if I'm being completely honest because I built it in the quad which I can also say without identifying the university because Every university has a quad as it turns out and they call it the quad So Tragedy of the Commons was in full effect. Every person who walked by the central area would have had the opportunity they would have had the intrusive thought. um The thing I'm curious about is how many people resisted, right? Because I think I was in class, so I didn't get to like count.
00:07:51
Speaker
the people who looked at it and didn't destroy it up until the person, one one of them did look and destroy it. Right. I mean, it would probably have to be several hundred, right? If you're talking about like a multi hour time period, people are shifting between the library and lower parts of campus or even taking the bus to upper campus. Right.
00:08:15
Speaker
Basically, many have witnessed your creation. You should be proud of that. Yeah, I am. i'm kind of You chose a high visibility spot. Yes, it was it was maximum risk. um And thankfully, no one was psychotic enough to destroy it while I was working on it. Right. That would be the next level of psychosis.
00:08:34
Speaker
should Really tall tan guy on beach goes over and kicks sandcastle. While the kids are building it and their parents are. right ah Yeah, but snow's nice. Uh, I do
Pandemic's Influence on Automation and Social Interaction
00:08:51
Speaker
unfortunately drive sometimes though. And I, as I grow older, unless I'm just looking out the window, I see snow and I'm like, okay, well,
00:09:01
Speaker
I guess I'm not driving to pick up food. I guess I'm not doing that errand or whatever. I kind of live on a hill, so I'm not going to be ordering food because I don't want to have a delivery driver try to go up a hill, you know? Yeah, I think like the soft rule is if you're not willing to go outside, you shouldn't have somebody deliver your stuff because you're putting them in that shitty situation. Yeah.
00:09:29
Speaker
I think during the, um, I agree with that too. I think during the pandemic, I had one instance like that where it like, it was colder. It was a bit snowy. I was like, okay, it's just gotta be, ah it's gotta be a large tip. Like someone is going to be making the choice to drive around out there. I'm not forcing anyone out of their house for this, but I recognize I don't want to be in that position. Large tip, do the best you can. And may the odds be ever in your favor. This is why I think it would be interesting to Again, I'm not going to say it's going to be a viable suggestion. I just think it would be cool with the current technology we have is to utilize drones ah to grab like an insulated bag and it just flies you your McDonald's. Nobody's going to eat any of your fries. It might drop the fries, ah possibly 200 feet onto an unsuspecting person if there's an issue.
00:10:27
Speaker
yeah I just think that'd be really cool. It would be cool. and i know check Is that my food? And you see like this little dot get bigger and then it goes to the house. Ah, son of a bitch. It's a bird. It's a plane. It's a happy meal. It's door dash.
00:10:46
Speaker
um I know that there are some places that did that, but I think it was one of those technologies that never really escaped um like the California metropolis where they test everything. It's like, hey, here's a little crazy new Taco Bell offering, or we have self-driving cars now, or something like that. And it literally never leaves California. Yeah.
00:11:11
Speaker
ah Think there are actually delivery robots yeah in California. Yeah Amazon leaves testing it prone to Having issues. Yeah, I mean one of the big things is you're limited by range obviously um and you're also kind of limited based off of regulation for can you have things in the low air space around this area. um Obviously you also have like your back woodsmen, I'll say back woodsmen type individuals who will shoot them down or try to capture them.
00:11:50
Speaker
like um And to be a fair, the first time i I thought about like delivery drones, I was like, yeah, people are absolutely going to shoot these down. This is America. We destroyed the friendly traveling robot in Philadelphia. We're capable of anything. Yes.
00:12:08
Speaker
Testing this in Philadelphia would have been a mistake for sure. but They call it the cityter city of but brotherly love as a joke.
00:12:19
Speaker
but we taught them wrong as joke ah yeah but I know like there is some stuff with automation and removing the need for people and very much targeting ah just income and not having to pay robot salaries and all that jazz. Oh, yeah. That's the AI thing, right? Yeah. And I wasn't trying to go into that. I suggested it's just for the way stuff operates today,
00:12:47
Speaker
it's It's I think the best way to do it because like obviously when I'm ordering, like I want to speak to somebody who can get the order correct. Sure. You can use a tablet. I don't give a shit that much. Um, but we're so far removed from being able to actually like chat with your wait staff and like have a friendly connection with them. just It feels very, they have to get onto the next thing because that's their job. Right. Yeah. Whereas I remember,
00:13:17
Speaker
being like a pre-teen teenager, but it it felt like the staff had some time to socialize, to like joke around a little bit. I don't know. That yeah human connection was nice when it existed. Yeah, I think, I mean, we're getting into socioeconomics and things like that now, which is really what the podcast is about. um But I think post pandemic, like,
00:13:46
Speaker
a lot of these smaller businesses were pushed closer to the viability line, or in some cases, you know under the viability line, a lot of businesses didn't survive. So some places are still understaffed.
00:14:00
Speaker
um And then obviously the cost of living increases, so people need to be paid higher wages. um And you know that has the same sort of effect. So maybe you're doing more with fewer employees. And then there's also like how people's behaviors changed across the pandemic. right like um And I honestly think to be completely fair. I think that this sort of Accelerated some of those social trends towards non engagement in certain areas um like when I order food For like fast food from a local place. I Have all the apps on my phone. I just have them in ah their own little food folder um And I'm pretty much always ordering
00:14:48
Speaker
like not at the window. I've ordered in advance. I'm just going there to pick it up, even if it's through the drive through part. But the main part, main reason for that isn't that I don't want to deal with people. It's actually because like they'll have discounts and coupons and I get like a free cheesy Gordita crunch every time I go to Taco Bell because I'm using the app and like.
00:15:10
Speaker
Yeah, obviously I'm going to pick that. But it also is reinforcing that behavior of interacting with these automation systems instead of or automated systems instead of um you know interacting with a human being. I'm not walking into a Burger King sitting down and then waiting for someone to come out and take my order. Burger King's a terrible example. Only restaurants do that. But at some point in the past, maybe that was the case. I don't know.
00:15:35
Speaker
I think once upon a time it was and then they just kept scaling things back because business is money, yada, yada. Yeah. But even grocery stores, I'm usually doing self checkout now.
00:15:48
Speaker
Yeah. um I think a lot of times, I think, at least for me, I'm getting 20 or less items anytime I go somewhere. and So if I get more than that, if it's perishable, things are going to go bad. I can't eat everything that fast. Yeah. um So it's easier for me to go do self-checkout versus people who have like a fully stocked cart. And they're like, I don't want to deal with all this. I'm going to go through the the standard checkout. Yeah.
00:16:14
Speaker
I mean, and even um so, we would prefer being Costco members, but we're Sam's Club members. It's a lot closer than the nearest Costco. um But as businesses, I support Costco. I would like to support Costco a lot more, I should say. um But like even when we're buying sort of in bulk, if I'm just like, hey, I need 50 jumbo hot dogs for some reason. Right.
Social Connections Through Gaming
00:16:40
Speaker
Because they have they have like those all beef. They're good. They're good. they're good um Calling them hot dogs is not really correct. But anyways, even if we're getting more food there.
00:16:49
Speaker
their system is you can use an app you could you could check out conventionally a lot of people do um and I feel better than them ah constantly because they have an app where um one it just detects your location so it's like oh you open this app in the store great you're here cool um and then you just scan it you just scan whatever you're putting in your cart And then there's a little checkout button. And like I have their credit card, so I can just swipe at the bottom, use whatever points I have. um And I interacted with zero employees.
00:17:23
Speaker
other than like showing my membership at the front, if you call that interaction, but you can literally just bring up your phone and show them that as you are past, um to buy it whatever, right? And this could be a lot of things. um And then they have like these arches at the end now, because before they had somebody who like would check your receipt and then check certain items in your cart.
00:17:45
Speaker
I don't know how that works exactly. I think it's just a loose check of, hey, this set they don't want to be like, oh, there's a TV here that's not listed on the receipt. Yeah, that's probably it. Right. Like if you had a PlayStation, I'm sure it shows up in their list of items to check.
00:18:00
Speaker
um But but yeah, with the arches, they like have like cameras on them or whatever. It takes an estimate of whatever is in your cart. And a lot of times that person at the exit, they're still like calibrating the arches or whatever. But like a lot of times that person will be like, you're good. You just keep going.
00:18:21
Speaker
So they don't even do the receipt check thing where they scan your receipt um and then look at a couple items in your cart. It's close to being a zero interaction experience.
00:18:33
Speaker
um And I don't hate it. That's the that's the darkness at the end. I mean, I don't think that's necessarily bad in and of itself because it's just convenience, right? Convenience for you as the customer. Yeah. So, I mean, people want to do convenient things. Can I save a couple of minutes not having to drive out? Oh, I can order food. Oh, can I do this in bulk? Oh, do I not? Can I check myself out and just bing, bang, boom?
00:19:00
Speaker
um Yeah, um because again, talking about like, oh, we don't have social interactions anymore. ah We found out that at least for like two years that we could get by without them. um And also, I still think businesses kind of went towards a, we just want to move through more product.
00:19:24
Speaker
So they're essentially allowing other ways for people to order. And I know it's not fully fleshed out at all. But from the customer's point of view, like, oh, I can just do this and then grab my thing and go. So I get it. But it definitely is, as you were saying before, reinforcing that we don't need to have like we can get by without those interactions in different places. Yeah. And we can automate that. And you're like, OK, it's fine.
00:19:53
Speaker
yeah because i think there was um I guess speaking widely for a second, when like the Internet came out, came about, everyone's like, this is going to connect to everyone. There's going to be so much interaction and in communication. You're not going to need to like call your friends on the phone anymore. um And maybe they're not home. This is this is something only 90 kids, 90s kids know about or whatever. But it's like, call your friend's house and then their parents answer. And they're like, yeah, that person's playing at a different friend's house. And you're like, OK,
00:20:26
Speaker
Well, am I friends with that friend? If so, I'm just going to go over to their house. If not, if I don't know where they are or the person or whatever, it's like that friend is inaccessible. They don't exist for the rest of the day or whatever, right? um If people just didn't happen to be at the land line at home or in their house, you're like, OK, I can't reach them. um Only 90s kids. But now the Internet's come about and they're like, oh, people are connected all the time. um Phones, obviously connecting everybody all the time. Socials, discord, stuff like that. um But that's where I get my interaction now.
00:21:09
Speaker
is in this sort of like digital space, almost exclusively, occasionally also in person. um And some of those other compulsory places where you would be interacting with people at a restaurant or something like that, they don't happen as often. and It's a reshuffling of the, uh, the geography of social interaction. Yeah. And I think our generation has latched onto that pretty well. Cause like I, we grew up with, uh, able instant messenger and like there were were ways to communicate people outside of just cell phone technology around
00:21:53
Speaker
But, but not on me like that was well the big difference for me. Right. I didn't have like MSN. Well, at one, I didn't have a phone until later than a lot of people did. Yeah. But um it was like, OK, this is after school. I'll be able to talk to people.
00:22:09
Speaker
unless they have something else to do or whatever. Right. But I was going to say, I don't think um our parents generation really has hopped onto that so much because they're primarily communicated throughout all these years is, oh, I will look them up in the phone book or have their number. I'll call them. um There might be some degree of Facebook messaging, but there's not like Active socialization online like there would be in like voice call in discord. Yes. They're not like hey, we're gonna hang out online and Watch this or play this together. Mm-hmm. We're like, oh, we'll have people over physically. Um
00:22:48
Speaker
So I think a lot of people, not even just the parent generation, kind of felt that way through the pandemic as far as I'm lonely, I can't physically see people. It just sucks. yeah Whereas we who've been playing like video games online after work for numbers of years, we're just like,
00:23:10
Speaker
Yeah. ah Yeah. Right. Just do that more, I guess. Right. Yeah. I mean, we were already accustomed to it. Mm hmm. Yeah. No, it's true. And I know there are exceptions and, you know, maybe I'm sure listeners can think of exceptions to. Yes, my dad has a steam account. Well, like ah my father in law has um Like he played ah World of Tanks, like a lot, and literally just had a group of similarly aged guys. And they're just like, here's our, it became basically their poker night thing, right? They'd jump in voice chat and then play this one game. That's the one thing I've noticed more from um older gamers is they they're they're less inclined to the,
00:24:01
Speaker
Eternal chase for novelty where they're playing like a bunch of different games like my mom got really addicted to a Korean m MMO ah called conquer online um and It was made by a developer who made tons of games like this basically what you would expect right from Korean MMO developer Not to cast shade but also to cast a little bit of shade Shout out to everyone who escapes that and makes you know a novel product but like lots of time, lots and lots of time. And it's just like across the years, right? And I'm kind of sitting here and I'm like, okay, well, there's new Sims expansion or something. I'm gonna play that. Like a new 40K game, play that. And you know, it's Dark Souls, I'm gonna play that. And these people just played the one game and could do it forever. And I'm like, I...
00:24:53
Speaker
I can't I eat the steam charts. Did you see like the steam reviews, the or the steam ah retrospectives that they have? It shows you the games to play the diagram as far as which is genres you kind of are more targeted in.
00:25:07
Speaker
Yeah, and like time spent playing games. I had this huge chunk for Destiny early in the year, um or like leading into June. Then there's this massive spike in June and that also has Elden Ring for Shadow of the Urg Tree, because that's where it dropped. um And it's like the most that I played games by far this entire year. But I also played Destiny for like about three months. And then after that, I had Warframe.
00:25:36
Speaker
A lot of gameplay time, not as much as June, but Warframe basically cut off almost exactly after like three months. And I'm like, huh, like I see it, right? You see the pattern. You're like, I'm not a soft G gamer. It's fine. Yeah, it's fine. I'm not. I'm not sticking with it forever. And it takes like a whole lot of novelty to to make it last that long.
00:26:02
Speaker
Yeah, we've kind of touched on this idea before a little bit as far as as gamers, we have played many games, um been around games, think about how gameplay is as far as story, motivation, mechanics, aesthetics, all of these things. We're essentially going to grade and judge it by. um But we also do have just kind of comfort games where Like, for me, it's Dota 2. You just play Dota 2. It's pretty much the same thing as always. But yeah, like you said, it's that poker
Evolution and Impact of Gaming Technology
00:26:40
Speaker
night thing where you're just really onto kind of bullshit with friends. Right. And Dota 2 is just the activity that you're doing in the meantime. Mm hmm. Yeah, that's fair.
00:26:50
Speaker
um Because I think when we were talking about like our poker type games, those are also games that ah at least i I believe like I don't overplay as much. There was definitely times with Dota where I played it way, way too much when it was my um kind of like constant game. But usually the games that I play way, too way too much like Warframe, for example, when I was playing Warframe, I played almost nothing else. And I was also playing it almost every day.
00:27:17
Speaker
um I burn out on those a lot faster. like I'm not going to be able to play every day, four hours a day, or whatever, or longer on some days, and then as much time as I can on the weekends, and then play the game for more than three months. But like for Dota, it's not the only game you play. It might be the game you play mostly with your friends, but you're not like,
00:27:41
Speaker
All right, it doesn't matter that no one's on. I got to grind this out, right? Like I really got to play as much doda as possible. Definitely not. um I get older and slower with movement and thoughts, and sometimes it's nice to just unwind and watch something. You don't need to actively engage too much. You don't need to try and redo boss attempts.
00:28:05
Speaker
um So I think there is something to it might just be a comfort game plus you can kind of just turn off your brain. um Which is funny to say, it is a very difficult and complex game. True. But I mean, like there is something where like you can kind of go on autopilot with certain things that you've just done enough times. um You don't have to mix it up with the data lists every game. You're like, people are like, why are you getting that on Witch Doctor?
00:28:35
Speaker
Well, it functions differently now. It also has spell ampl amplification. um Does it actually? Yeah. Oh my gosh. So it works for casters as well, as opposed to just attack damage type characters. um Battle Furies just cleave in a little bit of healing, right? like that's I think that's the same. Okay, thank goodness. Battle Fury is the stone I've built my house on. I can't TV it for that. Wait until he hears about BKB. Oh, no. But all that to say, like.
00:29:10
Speaker
I think the older you get, it's sometimes nice to just have a thing and you don't necessarily want to learn a new system, a new mechanics, a new genre of games. Oh yeah. So maybe you found like a sweet spot in roller coaster tycoon and you're like, oh man, I realized how fun this was. And you just kind of stick with it. and so Sometimes it just does take an external factor to say, hey, have you seen this?
00:29:34
Speaker
Right. Whether it be music, video game, a movie, a book, some form of media. Just be like, hey, I enjoyed this. You might enjoy this too. Yeah, you get like an on ramp for it because I can definitely empathize with like I have one minute games or something like that or maybe like five minute games where I launched it. And then after launching it, I do the calculation for like payoff versus like how difficult is this going to be to get into some games I've never launched, but I think I'm like, I'm pretty sure I own door fortress and I've never launched that because it's like, I just don't, I'm not ready. I don't have the commitment for them not getting back into it right now.
00:30:19
Speaker
um Yeah, and like in the same way last night, like I do have a PS5 and some new games that I'm looking to try. I'm currently going to go through Stellar Blade first before anything else. No reason. um Bubs. Yeah, it has some bubs. But.
00:30:43
Speaker
Since the, the combat is a little more engaged, we're like Perry's matter and using some of your resources and timing them correctly or doing a certain interaction on a certain move in response to, I'm like, Oh, this is going to be more engaging. I don't want to start this at 10 PM. Yes, that's absolutely. its like Oh, I'll play some after I get up and get the dog and myself some breakfast. This would be like a, Hey, let's hit the ground running with this for a little bit. Right.
00:31:11
Speaker
Yeah, there there are certain games where like I want to give them more attention because like like the vibe i want to I want to establish the vibes. like I think when I played Elden Ring, and I've done this for other games as well, um but i I don't usually do this when I'm playing games. I have like three monitors set up, and I'll actually just turn off my side monitors. Ooh, the immersion. Yeah, it's just like because I'm not going to be you know watching YouTube.
00:31:37
Speaker
um I'm, there's nothing I'm going to immediately need to respond to for discord. Right. And it's just like. I want to just enjoy the game. I want to just see the sights. I want to just focus on this. um And most of the time when I'm playing games, that's not the level of, I don't have to be that plugged in, right? Like I'm playing, I'm replaying satellite rain, which is like an indie game that came out like a while back. And it's kind of cyberpunkish and stuff. And like, I'll alt tab for anything. The game's very possible, um ah possible,
00:32:13
Speaker
um but like, Yeah, sometimes sometimes you want that immersion, like you said. um Yeah, it's kind of like when you would go watch a movie with the family, like you're like, hey, everybody line up. but We'll dim the lights, get the popcorn. And you just have all of your attention focused on the singular screen. Yes. Yeah. but Yeah. Like when I'm doing single player Elden Ring, some people like to like be in voice.
00:32:41
Speaker
and kind of socialize while they're doing a single player game. I'm like, if I'm not actively engaged in this, this is just white noise, background chatter, distracting. And I think I'll have more fun, especially with new content, like I was playing the DLC. Talk to nobody. Yes. I'm like, I want to be immersed. I want to hear the sounds. If I'm going to be hit by somebody around the corner. um Yeah, I just wanted to experience it all without distractions. Yeah.
00:33:07
Speaker
I think the um I know we're kind of jumping from topic to topic here. But the the the thing that as far as like the souls likes that I appreciated, this was kind of my ideal was back when some of us were playing through Dark Souls games as they came out. Our collaboration was not we're sitting in the same voice channel being and like, oh, my gosh, you got to turn and left. There's hidden items and stuff like like for real time disruption. But instead, like.
00:33:35
Speaker
after we were done playing or maybe like in the next work day when we were working together and stuff like that. It's like, oh, I was exploring this area and I found this really cool thing. Right. It was kind of like.
00:33:48
Speaker
Again, younger generations may not get this, but this is how people talked about games. Like before, um, all of the information was online. Um, and it's like, Oh, you got to go to like cheat code central or game facts or something like that. It's like, here's your walkthrough for how to get the secret weapon in final fantasy seven for, you know, cloud or whatever. Um, cause I couldn't remember, uh, the guy with the red coat, his name.
00:34:17
Speaker
Vincent Vincent. Thank you. I was like I Wasn't even sure if I provided enough context but because it was still in Final Fantasy 7 I was like, yes, it's not or on is it? They all had like their ultimate weapons or whatever not to be confused with ultimate weapon but like I we would talk to each other about the game when we weren't playing the game. And then there would be those moments of revelation, be like, oh, that's really cool. I have to go back and get that, or you know whatever. Not with the intent to like spoil each other, to like reveal where the game was going. right you're not like And if you get to the end, then all everyone dies. All your team dies. and
Diversity in Gaming Communities and Preferences
00:35:00
Speaker
like What? no don That's not what we're talking about. um But secrets and stuff like that.
00:35:06
Speaker
um I appreciated that when we were going through Dark Souls, and it was it didn't disrupt the immersive experience while we were playing, but it heightened the experience because it built anticipation when we weren't playing.
00:35:18
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, this is something that like when armored core came out, um, me and some other people were playing it here and there. And if I saw them on steam, I'd be like, how's it going? and And they would tell me like the last boss that they beat him. Like, Oh, hell yeah. I was like, Oh, I'm stuck here. I'm like, you'll get it. yeah But yeah, it is nice to just have like a kind of touchstone with somebody. Mm-hmm.
00:35:43
Speaker
But no, mainly sharing the stories, um, they kind of like make it more of a shared experience, but like you did have to like a community. Yeah. Wait. Yeah. Yeah. Um,
00:35:59
Speaker
I think it's it's really nice when you're playing a game or maybe even widening this conversation. We started talking about social circles and things like that, where you have your close circle as well as like the wider circle you can rely on for certain things. And if you're missing either of those, then you might kind of be lacking. If you don't have a close circle,
00:36:23
Speaker
Basically, people are having experiences with talking about things you care about, stuff like that. That's unfortunate because you know humans need that. If you don't have the wider circle to get information from outside beyond just the people around you, then you might be in a cult. So that's that's the important counterbalance. But um at least for games, it's cool when you can
00:36:50
Speaker
nerd out about certain things. Like, oh, it was awesome when we did this or this or this. And what's fun is, like, I have different games for different friends that I could talk about certain things, right? Like, I actually don't know anyone else in our friends list, our friends list, friend group. I have a list. It's an Excel based on the tiers of friends and how well everybody's doing. Well, whether the list is ordered or not, a group is just a collection, and the list is just an implementation of a collection, so I'm good. So it's an unordered collection. What's the best way for it to be ordered? Oh, no. BOGO, sorry.
00:37:30
Speaker
um I say buy one, then you get one. I'd like to buy one record, please. All right, we'll give you two. I felt like there was a BOGO sort. There is something, something go sort.
00:37:43
Speaker
I'm sure there was. I just do not recall the actual one. um Oh, it's a thing. Yeah, it is. um I'm going to I'm going to look that up after I finish the thought that is rapidly leaving me um different friends. I could like have these different experiences with because like.
00:38:03
Speaker
Nobody else is going to talk about Undertale with me. um Fewer people than would talk about Undertale with me would talk about Amore with me. right like These are some of the games Dave and I have. um And also, I can't recommend people play that game, so the list isn't getting any longer.
00:38:22
Speaker
um But then there are other games that like, you know, I play play with with other friends um Notably like Outer Wilds with Ian um and I can't even talk about that game with other people now because it's easily one of those games where it's like You got to go into it try not to have any expectations, but you do have to it's almost like the Undertale problem, right? like It's like I get you to play this game without telling you about it.
00:38:47
Speaker
Yeah, it's like, hey, full horse blinders, don't look up anything. Just play this thing and take my word for it. Yeah, it is kind of weird. You kind of do like when I try to get people to play Undertale, I did kind of need to give them a bit of a a preface. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, hey, this game is kind of more story based. Like there's a message, but like here's how some of the mechanics work and it's cute and witty. And people will be like, all right, literal gun to my head. Yeah, I'll play. So Which is like what you were saying earlier, right? Like leading someone is giving you a recommendation To kind of break through that game that you might not otherwise play like I think that the undertale page doesn't really sell the game like the the the short description is just like in a Like retro RPG or retro graphics RPG um Where you don't have to kill anything and you're like great
00:39:43
Speaker
Sounds boring. Not a feature. yeah we're some allowing used to attack if someone If someone gave me requirements, I had to write a plan for a piece of software. And one of the requirements was you don't have to kill anything. I would be like,
00:40:03
Speaker
Good i guess this is a puzzle but also Why is this a requirement but I wasn't gonna put in the plan that I needed to kill anything. In fact, I wasn't even good to put in the plan killing things at all. I will say um for me, I like getting recommendations, obviously more so from people who know my tastes. Yeah. But it's.
00:40:33
Speaker
It's just very wholesome. It's like, hey, I was thinking about you and I think you would enjoy this thing that I have also enjoyed. Yeah. Or maybe something that I would not enjoy, but I think that you would. Yeah. It's just having that thought about somebody and then wanting to make a connection with them on that. It's like, hey, see this great horror movie. Let's talk about it afterwards. Wasn't so cool when this happened. um It's it's good evidence that they're not um Oh crap. What's the word for obsessed with themselves? A narcissist, narcissistic. It's good evidence that they're not narcissistic and that like they experienced something and was like, this would be cool that other people did too. Um, and also every single time you do that, whether it's video games or movies, uh, somebody's going to have a different experience than you. It's not going to be one to one, right? Yeah. Both probably end up learning something that you didn't know before. Mm-hmm.
00:41:30
Speaker
Like i um I had picked up RoboQuest as like a Christmas gift for Ian. And um he has played RoboQuest more than I think I have across clearing the game on Epic.
00:41:48
Speaker
game story, and making most getting like most of the way through the game, beating the final boss on Steam version. He just like sent me a picture some days ago that's just like his end of run screenshot or whatever, and he had a level 100 minigun, which I guess is possible because of endless mode, which I have never even tried in the most recent thing. Yeah.
00:42:13
Speaker
um I'm like, well, I'm glad that, you know, that one landed. Right. It's fine when, you know, game recommendations don't necessarily land or people don't. Well, I'm still always playing. I don't want to say proud, but like I do take a sense of pride and joy in knowing that like our friend Nate and guess the special guest Nate ah kind of just like fully popped off with Elden Ring. Oh my gosh. Played the game way more than either of us. Played modded versions with friends and just
00:42:45
Speaker
took it and ran with it. I'm like, this is one of my favorite games. And I'm like, played it twice. I haven't even played the DLC again. I was thinking about it. but I'm just glad that somebody likes what I do to an even insaner degree than I do. Yeah, it's it's crazy when people I mean, I don't have that many cases of it. I think me basically is the stand out because he went from like, oh, not really playing. I think it was PC games. I hadn't really played PC games. He's like, so I'm looking for recommendations.
00:43:16
Speaker
to like playing multiple of them at the time so he's like
Nostalgia and Anticipation in Gaming Experiences
00:43:20
Speaker
okay yeah I'm trying to split my time here between like Dark Souls 3 and the Witcher 3 and like these other things that are recommended Cyberpunk or whatever and it's like well that's crazy first off um but yeah specifically for Elden Ring I don't think I have any other example of a friend being recommended a game and then
00:43:40
Speaker
Basically, getting as close as he can is to like speed running it. As as he has, which is excellent to see. Definitely. um Maybe I know more about about Dark Souls to lore than anybody, anybody, but I expect that he's got much, much more experience in Elden Ring. Definitely the case.
00:44:08
Speaker
I think also a special guest in front of the show, Mike, um I think I did introduce to him Katana zero and then he got into it and actually did start speed running some of the levels. I think I could be misremembering, but we don't have to be accurate here. It's ah we don't have a lore keeper. We don't have someone who's going to be fact checking. That's what the emails are for.
00:44:35
Speaker
That's most of what we get. Stop slandering me. But also shout out to the people who got me into video games, put me in front of the console, initially be like, hey, this is a ah cool, fun medium. There's some beeps and boops, and you get to interact with the beeps and boops, and cause the beeps and boops.
00:44:56
Speaker
And I was like, this is this is amazing. This is peak civilization. Uh-huh. Yeah. like We can make a religion out of this. um That is I still remember. um um I know I've told the story millions of times throughout the years, but when I would go and visit my cousin over the summers, you usually should be up for like a week. My parents would just be like, you boys hang out. And I like my cousin. He was cool. and We'd hang out and play video games. And he had access to a lot of different games and game consoles. Oh, yeah. And I did not. So for me, it was like this.
00:45:35
Speaker
very shiny brand new experience for everything. I'm like, and what's that do? What's this game? Is this fun? It's like a whole new world and it was great. And there was a trend that we would do where before we go to bed, we're like, hey, first one up wakes the other one up because his room had a door that led to the attic and the attic is where the Super Nintendo was. Yeah. So we get up and like.
00:45:59
Speaker
6 a.m. sometimes then I go up there and just be blasting through Samaria or some Mega Man and it was ah It's still a very fond memory for me. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Now imagine getting up at six. but ah good fall Wait a minute. Wait. No, it's that's absolutely true. And if people I hope that people don't miss out on this by getting like being plugged in so early as they do. But like first game console is like a kid. Is magical.
00:46:36
Speaker
It's difficult to describe the anticipation that like builds towards something like that. like I remember the McDonald's, um they had their monopoly dealio, and then Taco Bell was like, well, we need to have something similar. So they had like an N64 uh, challenge thing or whatever. And like you'd have your peel off things on every like soda cup or whatever. Um, that's like, I think if you could spell out literally Nintendo 64 or something like that, you got all the letters and the numbers, um, then you would just like win one. Um, and now that I'm older, I realized that those are almost always scams essentially or something close enough to a scam, even if it isn't where it's like, Oh yeah, there's only five.
00:47:26
Speaker
64 peel-off entries or whatever, right? And there's hundreds of thousands of Nintendo ones or everything else. but um Having the anticipation to get like that first console trying to sell my parents on it, literally just staring at the box it was contained therein once it had like arrived in the household, being unable to sleep because I was like so excited to play this. I was like, yeah, I'll do my homeschool homework for this. like I will do this. I will get it done every day so that I can do this. yeah I'll turn on paintball mode. You won't see blood, guys. Don't worry.
00:48:06
Speaker
It's a literal game changer. ah Because growing up, you're you had friend access for like people down the street. um If you wanted to hang out with friends, you had to have somebody's parents or your parents drive to get you from point A to point B. And a lot of your media was just, hey, there are movies, there is a blockbuster.
00:48:33
Speaker
But then going from just media you can only watch or only read or just playing with your toys into, hey, you can now essentially do both together at the same time. Was wildly new.
00:48:48
Speaker
um And again, it's your first experience because when I was growing up, I think Super Nintendo and it was probably like the main thing that was out. And then when I was maybe three teens or teens is when the N64 came out. Yeah.
00:49:05
Speaker
um But yeah, each time there's like that major jump in technology, you're like, well, holy shit, what's this going to do? Right. I still remember the Xbox Connect and as dumb as it looked and was, um it was really cool to have the idea of a motion sensing way to interact.
00:49:23
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, it was. so Um, PlayStation also had like, I think a precursor or around the same time, itoy. That's what it was. Oh yeah. That's called itoy. So brief. Yeah, that was kind of a flash in the pan, but there was a lot of like interesting ideas around it.
00:49:41
Speaker
I still think a Nintendo Switch did the best implementation for breaking TVs. But I mean, maybe the Wii, right? There was there's probably a lot to say the Wii. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. A lot of clips of people not using the straps or something like that and
Challenges and Future of VR in Gaming
00:50:00
Speaker
impaling their very expensive screens.
00:50:04
Speaker
But it was like a great way to do Wii Sports or Wii Bowling. Yeah. And to just emulate the action, but have it translate to the game. Same with like Steven Spielberg's boom blocks. Mm hmm. Great game design. Yeah. but You're essentially using the remote as your hand and you're trying to throw balls to knock down essentially a large. Oh, my God, Jenga. Mm hmm.
00:50:31
Speaker
Or it's a younger game. Gotcha, yeah. i know it's i I do sometimes, ah like thinking about it now, sort of miss a little bit of that childlike wonderment and novelty. But I do occasionally play a game where it really grips me. I really, really do enjoy it. um But yeah, hard to top.
00:50:55
Speaker
something that you have no experience with whatsoever. And it's like, it's right there. All I have to do is complete my English assignment or her whatever. And I can load up Ocarina of time, right? Like I still think my parents would shit themselves if they got to experience VR. Mm-hmm.
00:51:15
Speaker
Cause like you don't literally emotion sickness. Most people do. They don't tell you that.
00:51:24
Speaker
But yeah, just not knowing what the technology is capable of and then seeing how far it came. Like the fact that there was I think in one of the testing things for It's like a little test area or like a little demo game for one of the VR products. yeah um But essentially like you're just hitting a balloon around, but it felt like you were hitting the balloon around. um As far as like the feedback you're getting from the controllers was obviously syncing up with the time you were seeing the balloon hit your hand in VR space. Yeah.
00:52:02
Speaker
but it was also proportionate to like how hard I hit it as well. Right. So if I was like lightly tapping, it would feel like a light tap. Um, but again, I didn't know what was going to be in that technology, but then being able to experience it. And then my parents don't know about like generations, yeah technological advances in this space. Yeah. No, it's crazy. Um, it is like, I don't know where,
00:52:31
Speaker
I guess maybe I don't have, I shouldn't say I don't have hope for the future as far as game development. I don't know what the next big thing is, right? Like it feels like we pushed motion controls. It feels like we pushed VR to a point where like.
00:52:45
Speaker
Those are pretty much fulfilled. There could be better entries in some of them. I'm sure the technology will get better. um But I don't know what the next big thing is, right? And it seems like everybody's focused on it AI, which is like depressing. That's not gonna, as far as I could tell, help with games other than having NPCs that you can talk.
00:53:07
Speaker
to for longer. And so I think there's cool potential with AI. Yeah. I don't think any of that potential is going to be used for gaming in a beneficial way for 30 years. Yeah. Still a lot of kinks to work out and also like setting. I don't want to work the kink out. Working the kink out is my kink.
00:53:36
Speaker
Somehow, somehow between AI and motion controls and VR, you would think we would find a way to work the kinks out, but like, just nothing I have to be hooked up to all at once. Otherwise I can't.
00:53:51
Speaker
Dave, I'll meet you in VR space. All right. I lost the thread after that, but sorry. No, is it's, it's, I, I had to interrupt with that. Um,
00:54:03
Speaker
Never pass up an innuendo. That's my life advice. um unless they're Unless it's a bad time but and it's up to you to know. Wait, what were we actually talking about? Because the thread is truly lost. ah We were talking about the technology, what's the next best thing oh now that we have all of this AI ain't it?
00:54:26
Speaker
um to some degree. I still think they want to try and make VR more immersive and a big issue is still movements. How are you going to move around in a three-dimensional space? That's true. I think right now with like Half-Life, Alex are like, oh, you can teleport to these locations.
00:54:45
Speaker
I've seen some very high end implementations in like a YouTube video where like someone is essentially strapped into things so they can walk. And it's like a treadmill moves under you. So you're not you're essentially just moving in place, but you can essentially move forward in the video game. Right. But that's not going to be a feasible technology to sell worldwide to all these households like that. But if they could do something like that in the future, it's another level of immersion or I hope they don't try and bring anything like Smellavision back. That would be another way to immerse. Have a full ah Matrix Jack in port. um You have to sell your soul to Meta and they'll send a technician out to install this on the back of your neck. Technician in the next three to five weeks between the hours. Do you have your own?
00:55:42
Speaker
VR router or do you need to rent one? um But yeah, I mean, I would agree. That would be that would be the big breakthrough for me, because like right now the games, some of the games I've enjoyed most in VR literally just sidestep the issue. They're like, oh, you're playing Beat Saber, which is like one of the most successful vr games ever for a lot of good reasons.
00:56:03
Speaker
um They sidestepped the movement thing by just being like, well, you're going to step to the left and to the right in the space that you have. And that's it. yeah The corresponding movement will be you move to the left and the right um in the the VR space. um But yeah, adventure games, fighting games, things like that. A lot of room to make it to to kind of like solve that issue. And I think almost all of them have been tried.
00:56:33
Speaker
Right. You mentioned teleporting, which is one of the least paradoxically the least motion sickness in do inducing forms of movement in VR. um And then there's actual movement like on a joystick or something which can be the most inducing of motion sickness. um And then there's like actual just moving in your space.
00:57:00
Speaker
um Which I can't remember if that was more or less than teleporting um But that's like what beat saber would do um Well, I like beat saber for it being stationary me just flailing my arms around. Mm-hmm Versus some of like the the arrow training. Yeah After like two rounds of that I'm like listen, I'm done. It's yeah way too tiring.
00:57:24
Speaker
That's honestly, that's that's the trick, I guess. Maybe that's where the technology needs to improve is continue to reduce fatigue, the the physiological response that a lot of people's bodies have to being and ah in VR. Because you could be playing a game that even if you aren't experiencing motion sickness, um if you play it enough, you'll start to.
00:57:49
Speaker
and you don't want to play all of the advice follow that don't play games making you motion sickness to try to get through motion sickness you can't push through it it just gets really really bad I like how the technology, again, has kind of progressed from like you're going to have these dirty cartridges you blow into to like don't like a little switch chip because it's going to taste bad because it's don't eat this, please. Yeah. And now it's like, hey, video games can make you puke. Yes, we've made it. We finally made it any side effects to the VR. Well,
00:58:28
Speaker
But no, I've I've definitely felt it a little bit because it's not actual space. Yeah. But you can still kind of see everything around you to a degree. It's like it it gives you a different field of view than I would be used to on a day to day. And that's something that definitely fucks with me personally. Yeah. yeah Physiologically, it kind of comes down to like um is your brain sold on what's happening in multiple respects. And if your brain starts to not be sold on what's happening, it like de-syncs essentially. And that's where motion sickness comes in. Cause it's like, If you ever wanted to just really get motion sick, it would be a fast moving thing where your physical body movements aren't corresponding with the movement. It's something like a controller or a joystick or something like that um with a low or inconsistent frame rate that crushes people. That actually screws with your brain so much.
00:59:39
Speaker
um Like it just throws it out because it's like I can't trust what my eyes are saying and the movement doesn't make sense anymore. And you could see that on a screen and that's fine. It'll bother you, but that's fine. But if you're trying to convince your brain that that's reality, it's like, nope, not this. We're in the matrix. Get us out. All right.
01:00:05
Speaker
oh So it is interesting. um But yeah, I guess there's there's a lot of but there's a lot of places they could actually improve just in VR, I guess.
01:00:16
Speaker
um
01:00:19
Speaker
Also maybe being able to find a more limiting space. Because I know for some of them, it's just like, oh, I think you can hook up to your phone, strap it onto your face. Yes. Once you kind of have to set up these towers where like these are going to be your boundaries. But then obviously, if you're going to be blindfolded in real life, you kind of need to make sure you have a clue space. You're not bumping into stuff. Yeah. So now you need some degree of square footage that's completely allocated for that. Mm hmm.
01:00:52
Speaker
Yeah. And they all have like some different implementations around that, right? Like the, the valve index uses the towers and you have to have that clear space. The, um, I don't know what they're calling it now. Oh, yeah, I know it's still meta quest, but it's like meta quest three or whatever. Their thing doesn't use the towers, but you need to have a clear space and you basically program it. And then it just uses like precise GPS, like essentially to know where that playable space is. And like red danger walls will appear if you get really close to it to be like, hey,
01:01:26
Speaker
you're about to punch your wall. Stop that. um But yeah, it's gonna be some, like what you said, I think it's gonna be some combination of trying to figure out what the most intuitive movement is and how you apply that to the space, as well as the technology getting better. People having cooler games, people having better frame rates, better graphics, better pizza.
01:01:52
Speaker
paba yeah Papa Jones Papa Jones. Yeah, but like at least from what I've heard from my social circles I've only really ever heard about half-life Alex being a VR game that's Been talked about a decent amount as far as a good example of what the technology can do And then everything else it just feels like kind of a write-off where it's like, oh, it's some adventure game You slash it some monsters or move forward Yeah, it it feels just like you don't care about it when it's announced like oh that's VR though yeah yeah it's they haven't had their well I shouldn't say they haven't had their triple-a breakout but VR unfortunately for a lot of the games that see coverage and probably the games that exist fall into either
01:02:38
Speaker
Indie Like small scope it's not you know ah really big it's not capturing everyone's attention this is there's no like There's no Witcher 3 or cyberpunk or like Elden Ring VR type game. There's nothing at that tier um Instead it's games that were kind of like minigames things that could be played for short periods of time to deal with emotion sickness and things like beat saber or like Sword and sorcery. I think it's called the one where you fight guys and you spells Or like the archery game um Or and this actually I think hurts VR Adaptations right Skyrim in VR or something like that because now it's like
01:03:24
Speaker
It's a second-class citizen. Yeah. Because they're like, okay, well, it's not the way the game was intended to be played, right? um They just slapped it in there. Or maybe it's fun. I don't know. But it's not made that way. Yeah, it would feel weird to like go back and play something that you're very familiar with.
01:03:44
Speaker
and then be like, hey, but now you have to use these sets of controls. Right. We're going to remap everything essentially to your body. Yeah. Have fun playing Starcraft. Fuck oh. Hey, maybe this isn't the best way to do this. The Starcraft would be kind of insane. They'd have to remake the entire an RTS where you have the whole minority report thing would be awesome. um Maybe more terrible. I don't know. You'd have to you'd have to really sell it.
01:04:11
Speaker
um But even games like, you know, Bioshock Infinite. Oh, let me go on that Ziploc. Yes, be very disorienting. um If you took the first game, though, a lot slower, a lot slower paced first person. So, you know, that always benefits VR. I i don't know if I'm familiar with a third person VR game. But yeah, we'll see where it goes, I guess.
01:04:37
Speaker
Yeah, but I still think it's it's a ways away from mass adoption. Yes. There's not like a game that comes out where people are like, I have to get into VR now. Right. Yeah. um They still need that. And I agree with you. I think I was like, I don't know what the next big thing is. Maybe it is actually refinement of that.
01:04:56
Speaker
um We're too late in the episode to talk about like the switch to, but everything we know from leaks about the switch to, which is probably going to come out next year is that it's pretty much just like a larger switch with better specs and like the joy cons attached magnetically instead of sliding in. And you're like, I care about the specs.
01:05:22
Speaker
Because the Switch actually has performance issues. And I care that it's backwards compatible. They said that's the other thing. because maybe that'll just make some games run better. like The Zelda games don't always run at good frame rates on the Switch. Pokemon Arceus. But they're not pushing anything. right It's not like, hey, and it's going to wrap around your eyes and get us into electrical impulses into your brain.
01:05:52
Speaker
so ah We'll see you for that one. I still think that i overall, ah horror has to be the genre that's going to push VR forward. Oh, my gosh. Because we'll make your benefits more from a very immersive space. Yeah. Fear. Yeah. Yeah. It is also.
01:06:14
Speaker
I think i think ah a proper scary horror VR game is marketed to a very particular subset of people. I don't know if it's going to be the most marketable thing, but there will definitely be articles about it. If you just had like something on the tier outlast or whatever, and you're like, yep, it's in VR now, you're going to be like, well,
01:06:32
Speaker
I'm going to watch other people play.
01:06:37
Speaker
That's fair. that's fair anyways ah Any closing thoughts of advice as far as our our social interactions with people, how we play games?
01:06:50
Speaker
um or maybe what you would want to see in VR can't be a porn game. but I was going to say porn is the other industry that really pushes technology. It needs to break into VR. that That's the thing. Why is Nintendo not sponsoring the adult entertainment industry? I'll save my commentary for that subject for the time being.
01:07:11
Speaker
um
01:07:14
Speaker
But yeah, as always, don't be a cunt. Try and find something you have in common with a friend or maybe make a connection as far as something that you really enjoy. Video game, movie, book, whatever it is. um With somebody you already know and see if you can get them into the same thing or find a part of like the online community that already shares that belief and chat with them. Absolutely.
01:07:44
Speaker
Follow your passions and make other people try your passions sometimes. Just don't be too forceful. Good advice. Good advice through and through. I agree. Thank you, guys, for listening to another episode of soapstone. Join us next time for our year in review special episode. We only do those once about once per year. Yeah.
01:08:10
Speaker
um If you guys have feedback, feel free to send it in soapstone podcast at gmail dot.com or could join the discussion on Facebook at Facebook dot.com slash soapstone podcast. And as always, we'll see you in the next one. Bye bye.