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Sons Of The Forest
16 Plays6 months ago
FULL SPOILERS: Sons Of The Forest
Join Dave and Jake as they decide whether they are fortunate Sons or not! They crash right back into the mysteries of The Forest and try to survive the onslaught in this week's episode!
Intro:
- Sons Of The Forest - Superficial
Outro:
- Sons Of The Forest - Hey You!/Crunch Wunchies Ad
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Transcript
Introduction and Light Banter
00:01:05
Speaker
How's it going, and everyone? Welcome to another episode of Soapstone. My name is Jake, and I'm joined by my co-hosts as always, Dave. How's it going tonight, Dave? Smooth. Smooth? Ooh. It's going smooth. Like ah a vanilla Coke. Those are not smooth. Cokes are so bubbly. They're not Pepsi. Vanilla.
00:01:26
Speaker
It does taste nice though. A French vanilla Coke. There you go. We, we, we. It's, it's, it's less than a minute and we already have an explicit tag.
Coffee Adventures and Kettle Conundrums
00:01:40
Speaker
You mentioned Gentilia. I was like, my options were that or baguettes or mines. I know so little about actual French culture. So that's true. I'm going to do for Marge.
00:01:57
Speaker
You too, buddy. You too. Shalom. Peace be with you. Yeah. um That's fair. i think I think it is a pretty smooth smooth the transition into the weekend here. We're recording slightly later. So I, myself, am a little bit more caffeinated. How about yourself? I mean, I definitely did caffeinate today. I actually went out for a coffee this morning.
00:02:22
Speaker
yeah Oh, nice, like local place coffee shop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Here's the exact name of the dress. Yeah. How many how many feet from name drop coffee shop or would you say you have to walk? Oh, you've been to the name drop coffee shop. Name drop coffee shop actually sounds like a really good name. Yeah. For coffee, like in India place, it's like.
00:02:49
Speaker
really pretentious and they're full of themselves. They've got like antiques that are all like post 2000 circa 2000 on the walls. Oh, man, that'd be kind of good anyways.
00:03:05
Speaker
No, that's fair. um but got I had my own little coffee aside. um there was a We got a gooseneck electric kettle about a year ago. um I think you saw it at some point. I think you were over one time at least since I had that.
00:03:23
Speaker
Yeah, I'm familiar with geese. Yeah. Yeah, it's one of those. so So anyways, you take the neck and you make it into a coffee pot. But no, it's the extended pour dynamic. I really like this. I'm going to get those going forward. But we picked like a relatively inexpensive model um on Amazon. So you know just Chinese knockoff type product type thing. um Lasted about a year. Not too upset with that for the price we paid. But now I'm like, OK.
00:03:52
Speaker
I say I'm like, um my wife entirely handled this replacement purchase. She made all of the the just executive decisions here. I was just like, we need another one. I'm unplugging this because what happened was it has this feature where it will um the water will heat until it begins to boil, and then it turns the heating element off.
00:04:11
Speaker
Right. yeah um Now, mine functioned exactly like that until the water started to boil and then it diverged from the standardized path and continued to heat.
00:04:26
Speaker
Yeah, that's terrifying and concerning. Yes. We validated the functionality. We were like, OK, that happened once. Is that every time of occurrence? not And it was. Yeah. So some something went
Diving into Sons of the Forest
00:04:40
Speaker
wrong with it. um So we unplugged it. It's not a bug. It's a feature. Take your tea beyond the threshold for human drinkability. aha um So my wife bought a replacement.
00:04:54
Speaker
um little bit more A little bit pricier, but it has this nifty little feature where you can set the temperature, and then there's also like a keep maintain temperature option. um And what's really funny about this is ae the maintain temperature option cannot be engaged if the water is boiling temperature or higher. the other house like That seems like a really good safety feature to specifically avoid the thing we were just dealing with.
00:05:24
Speaker
But the the the last thing I'd mention about this is because it doesn't just go to boiling and then turn off. I've actually started making coffee slightly under a hundred Celsius, um, like 96 Celsius. And the reason I'm using Celsius is because I don't want to keep track of boiling in Fahrenheit. It's just, it's very easy to just be like less than a hundred. You're good to go. Right. Um, but yeah, 96 and it could just be because of my coffee snob, but I think it legitimately tastes better.
00:06:00
Speaker
I mean, if my mouth isn't burnt, yeah, I can definitely taste my mouth. The taste is different, too. The taste is different, too. um i mean Yeah, that's technically going to be true if you have just.
00:06:12
Speaker
brewed cold or like brewed hot. Like you do get a different arrangement of oils. Yeah. That sounds like I'm making things up, but it it does different. that It does extract differently from the beans. I think if it's a like boiling temperature or, or under it. And so yeah, 96, it's been pretty good. So worth it for that. Hopefully it lasts longer than a year. That's the dream.
00:06:38
Speaker
I really hope so. I also can't imagine you're using it like so much where like you, you burn it out. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm kind of of the opinion. It should continue to work. Even if I use it a lot, but I mean, I wasn't using the kettle more than like three times a day. I mean, uh, we would use it for hot chocolate as well. So maybe we use it a little bit more for that, but, um, but yeah, no, I'm, I'm aiming for more than a year.
00:07:09
Speaker
I still wish you the. I'm going to just keep that's our loop. That's the loop for second. In the realm of video games, the two of us just the two. I hate that there's like. You know how, like, if a group of women hang out all like all the time or like live together, they'll kind of like sync up ah with their their cycle. Is that true? Is that actually true?
00:07:39
Speaker
I've heard about the person to ask. So this is either true. I have heard this. I'll give you that credit. but I can't remember if this was an old wives toil tale or not. I mean, probably. This isn't the exact check. and The only one I really remember is the don't eat or you can't swim like 30 minutes after eating.
00:08:04
Speaker
And that never made sense to me. So I don't think I ever followed it. But now that I'm an adult, i'm like, Oh, this is just something parents made up. Yeah. Yeah. Mom and dad want 30 minutes without you yelling. It looks like Google saying no.
00:08:22
Speaker
It looks like um it might be one of those things, there's the um confirmation bias, where it's like, if you kind of are thinking this might be the case, and then it happens a couple times, because like menstrual cycles drift a little bit, um depending on the person and whatever, um if it overlaps a couple times,
00:08:45
Speaker
then you might just think like, OK, now it's a fact. Right. But the reality is it's kind of just random chance that it happened to make that overlap in that case. You probably wanted to go somewhere else with it, but instead we're now a health podcast, a women's health podcast. Well, I was going to say a akin to that. I like that just because we've known each other since birth.
00:09:11
Speaker
um
00:09:14
Speaker
I don't know, there is kind of like a mental sync up on some things. Yeah. As far
Critique on Game Progression
00:09:20
Speaker
as, oh, this is a good time for this type of bit or meme. Yes. Yeah. I will say that is one of the advantage to having friends.
00:09:29
Speaker
um like You can't do solo bits. Well, it like legitimately, I was going to say the call and response. Um, like as you spend more time with your friends, there's going to be more call and response things like, and even me just saying call and response, like people's in our friend group, their minds would go to like Colin Farrell, Colin Walker. Yeah, exactly. Right. Call it now. callin Colin later. Yeah, exactly. Um, so now I appreciate that as well. But anyway, sons of the forest is a video game. How do you feel about that?
00:10:06
Speaker
I feel if I really kind of investigate that statement and break it up into at least three individual parts, I agree on all counts. It is definitely a video game. Gotcha. OK.
00:10:18
Speaker
Calling it anything beyond that, I think, is greedy at the very least. All right, yeah. um And just ill-advised, truthfully. That's fair. Yeah, yeah. You got to draw the line somewhere. um What were your expectations going into this? Because I know we we played Forest 1. We saw the trailer for Forest 2, and then another trailer. And then it's like, oh, we're doing early access. We're like, all right, fuck that. We'll wait. Yes. Yeah.
00:10:47
Speaker
um So my expectations um coming from the trailer I expected the graphics to be better than the first game um Although to be fair to my recollection and I didn't go back to look the first game also looked okay It was like it was still good-looking game um And I don't care about graphics at all, but that's what I expected um I expected them to expand the base building aspect and And then we start to venture into what I hoped. Oh, I guess I also expected some expansion in like the mutants and stuff like that, because that was provided, like that showed up in the trailer. Um, and I was hoping then I get to hopes, which are like gameplay improvements, better integration between like base building and the story. Um, and.
00:11:40
Speaker
really like a continuation that was compelling from the first game. Um, which was, and i I think we called it out in the episode, like pretty, it was pretty good for his final game. Like it was actually fairly compelling. Yeah. It honestly just had a weird hook of a good mystery and nothing was really explained, which kind of helped flush that out a little bit. And then you explore in a cave and you're like,
00:12:08
Speaker
It's kind of spooky. What's that? What's going on? And the base building felt coherence enough to be kind of fun to explore and like make a ah little base. Right. So, but to turn back back to you, would your answer differ from mine at all? Did you have different expectations or hopes going into sons of the forest?
00:12:32
Speaker
Not really. I mean, I guess I thought it was going to be a little more active because I think in some of the trailers they had ah Virginia a Kimbo. ah hu Kevin was there to your squad. It seemed like a lot of things were kind of like crashing through your base and a lot of interactions. Right. Which can happen. Yeah, we definitely had our share of fights, but I guess I just thought it was going to be I don't know, a little different. But it it was very much, and you'll hear me say this a lot, very similar to the forest one. yeah Yes, yes. Definitely a very similar takeaway. um And I think it's probably worth discussing the game like in comparison on different merits. Because like we said, like the story for the first game was actually fairly compelling. But one of our gripes was that it was um
00:13:31
Speaker
It was disconnected from the base building. like As soon as you set off into the caves, which is where pretty much all the story happened in the first game, um then it was a very it was it was an experience divorced from the rest of the game. The base building, and the survival, your basic needs were taken care of. You were just getting new equipment. You were finding things that would get you in other caves to to actually like round out the story.
00:13:57
Speaker
Um, so which one do you want to start with digging into? You feeling like the story, you feel in the gameplay, like the survival crafting stuff. I want to talk about the divorce stuff because I think that was
Base Building and Survival Strategies
00:14:10
Speaker
kind of the biggest sin from the first game that they did not try and remedy whatsoever. Um, and just to elaborate on that a little bit, cause if you're less familiar, it's just that,
00:14:26
Speaker
There's no real reason to kind of compel you to explore. Right. Which usually you can kind of lock behind some type of progression where if you explore, maybe you get new tech, you can make a safer base, um take care of some of your basic needs. But it really seems. I think the best way to phrase it is the base building is entirely optional if you want it to be exactly. Yeah. And that's like a whole side of the game that could be missed out on. Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:00
Speaker
If you load it into the game and you found like a cave on your map and then you start going into just all of the caves It's never struck. It's never necessary in this game to put down a log And a game where like the structural motif is log cabins basically and log walls and stuff. You never actually have to put a log down um Which is kind of like it's kind of nutty to think about and I feel like we gave that a little bit of If not a pass, then we at least gave them some credit for the other aspects of the game that were good for the first one. Well, yeah, it's more difficult to do here. It was an initial game. Like it was a pilot first game in the NA. Well, it was becoming a ah series. So be like, OK, maybe they didn't know. Maybe they rushed for time.
00:15:53
Speaker
But then usually you have like a list of notes you're like, we want to improve on these things. And again, I really don't feel like any effort was made there.
00:16:07
Speaker
Yeah, I really get the same impression. There was not enough effort put to the composition of these um these elements. And you could say this is true of like a lot of games. right like There are a lot of survival crafting games, open world survival crafting games. Keep invoking the horsemen of the apocalypse. um You could keep saying, like there's a lot of games out there that don't have this. right like What's the story of seven days to die? Nobody cares. Barely exists. There's like some pieces of paper you can collect or something.
00:16:36
Speaker
but like If you put the story in the game and you're making a survival game, it's less interesting if they're completely removed from each other, um because it's not like it's not like the story is not attached to gameplay. It's just the gameplay is exploring caves, right? Like, yeah, but like, let's say that you just see, oh, the forest survival, crafting game. Cool. Let me load that up.
00:17:04
Speaker
And you're doing your base building and shit. Maybe you don't want to explore caves too much because there's cannibals outside of your base. So maybe you're not trying to explore too much. I could easily see somebody like me in my first fucking play through where maybe you have multiple bases and you think, oh, there's some stuff in the case. It's kind of cool, but like we don't really need those supplies. We have a lot of things for growing a base. Right. And then you find that none of that matters for actual progression.
00:17:34
Speaker
Um, and that feels weird. Like, Oh, why would I even do this then? Right. Cause it's where it's instinct because you want zombie defense. Right. Yeah. It's a, it's a hard counter to the, um, the like ambient cannibal threat to your base as you just go in a cave. Right. Um, there's no such thing as being attacked or raided while you're in a cave. Um, but there are also like gameplay advantages to going into caves in both games.
00:18:04
Speaker
it's the only place that you find gear upgrades, right? And there's a massive difference between your starting, like, hatchet, basically, and the endgame axe. From, like, a damage dealing perspective, and also the utility perspective, using it to knock down trees. um and we brought it to him It does a lot of damage. and there's there is better We don't even have to talk about the better version of the weapon so far, but, like,
00:18:29
Speaker
It's, um, there's a lot of upgrades. There's a lot of gear upgrades. Some of them are fun. A lot of them are utilitarian. And, uh, the second game, the sons of the forest has like a tremendous number of gear upgrades. Um, the Olga, if you explore all the caves, some of them necessary, some of them not. Um, but they're, they're, they're not needed for the survival crafting aspect. It's not like,
00:18:57
Speaker
hey, you're not going to be able to build this unless you go into a cave, unless that cave literally has the blueprint for what you need, right? It's not like, oh, this is ah this is a very tough ah diamond ore, and you need at least an iron pickaxe in order to get this way. There's nothing like that to like link the two forms of gameplay together. And on the other hand, the stuff that you could acquire while you're up on the surface, like from the base building, as far as basic needs, think like food, water,
00:19:26
Speaker
um Maybe you're building armor pieces or something like that. um That is not at all necessary within the caves either because there's more food in the caves than out of them, um which was an issue in both games, right?
00:19:43
Speaker
Yeah, they they give you way too many supplies for a survival crafting game. Maybe be like, hey, maybe it's like they're going to be down there. Maybe they didn't bring anything. I would argue you should punish the players for not preparing in that case. Right. um But even if you disagree with me on that, they will still respawn items in the caves if you go back or if you like. Sleep and wake up like we abused it in the first game way more, but.
00:20:15
Speaker
Basically, once you figure that out, you're like, OK, well, I. Then why am I base building? Yes, exactly. like you Because it's safer in the cave, not being attacked. You have your your sippies and your your munchies and then you're kind of just good. Yeah. All of the enemies that are or can be in caves have like fixed spawns. They're avoidable. Mm hmm.
00:20:40
Speaker
Yeah, and even if you want to fight them because you want to get like creepy armor or something like that, the caves will give you the tools you need to fight. Usually if you go into a cave, you will come out better prepared with more supplies, with more provisions than when you enter.
00:20:57
Speaker
Um, and that is, it's, it's both weird, right? From like a gameplay standpoint, because I don't know who's going through and like putting party food all over these caves and just covering them in MREs and stuff like that. It's like, everybody has an MRE in a coke. That's yeah and yeah exactly common knowledge.
00:21:19
Speaker
um But it's also it's basically better than this stuff you can get outside of the caves, right? Like there's a health herb you can get if you like combine some some things that you either that you grow up on the surface with which is more effort than it's really worth.
00:21:35
Speaker
Or you could get pills, right? Medicine. And that would be
Traversal and NPC Dynamics
00:21:40
Speaker
found generally in like a static spawn in a cave or in one of the camps outside on the surface. um And it's just straight up better. It's just straight up better than what you could make yourself. And I don't care if that's realistic. It's unfun for your own personal effort, which takes more effort right than just picking up something on the ground to generate a consumable that's worse.
00:22:03
Speaker
right so We're kind of like the reason we spent so much time on this, is is it is it is a really big gripe in the game. um Literally, everybody who I've talked to about the forest outside of this has the exact same things to say. Yeah.
00:22:20
Speaker
And if you look at the positive reviews, like on Steam, a lot of the good things they mention, it's because they're investing all of their time or their group play session in the base building and defending against cannibals that come across the base or something like that.
00:22:37
Speaker
It's not, oh my gosh, I got five friends together. We all ran through a cave taking turns climbing up a rope and it was great, right? Like it's not, it's not that it doesn't add anything to the game. It's that it's repetitive.
00:22:55
Speaker
A lot of those caves look very similar, and I've already had my fill from the first game, right? um like It could just be called Sons of the Cave, basically, and it it would be a a toss-up, 50-50. Yeah. for its
00:23:16
Speaker
For some of the stuff that's not just the the issues with the lack of intermingling between the the cave and the survival crafting, um was there was there a takeaway from either of those that you thought was worth mentioning, maybe you enjoyed or you thought was fun to engage with? You mean as far as the base building versus caving?
00:23:40
Speaker
Yeah, not necessarily just like a versus. You could just pick one of them. What was an element that was fun while playing this game? Hopefully you have at least one. I like setting up traps in games. and I'm sure you remember our seven days to die episode where I just make spike traps. Yes. I like being head to the ground, just putting spiky posts around things. That is my true calling in gaming. at least multiple players Survival, crafting, gaming.
00:24:09
Speaker
um But yeah, it was cool to learn how to do that. um And I also am glad that they added more than just templated items, where you just are like, oh, I want to put a house here. And it's like, OK, here's where all the logs have to go. You need 42. Go. Yeah. um They still have that. But they're other. They also had the option to construct some things. Like, I'm literally going to build a torch outside of my inventory. Right. So that felt kind of cool.
00:24:40
Speaker
Yeah, they had like emergent crafting as well as like the standard schematics. um Feels a little bit more natural once you learn it. and Until then, it's just as esoteric as like a schematic would be because you're like, how do I put a door lock here? Right. um You either know or you don't. um But I did like this. I like those changes for sure.
00:25:06
Speaker
um One that I wanted to call out was the introduction of the helper. You get a helper NPC. And combined with, I believe this is the case, that um you get more wood per tree chopped down in this game. That feels correct. It really does, because occasionally we'd knock down a tree. He's been on this for days. The thing is, the reason I keep bringing it up is I could just be gaslighting myself.
00:25:32
Speaker
Well, maybe it's not true. And there was still a lot in the first game. But I remember it was four. Yeah, that sounds about right. I think it was four logs per tree and zooming was a full grown. Yeah. And for large trees here, you may get more than four because I remember us building building a palisade in the first game and it was like an afternoon of clear cutting the forest in order to make it. And then, yeah.
00:25:57
Speaker
um But your helper will assist with tasks, either repairing the base, gathering logs, gathering sticks or stones, placing them somewhere. And it's kind of bold. Like the inclusion of the helper is one of the best ideas this game has, I think, because it takes one of the things that's more tedious and add some automation to it. um But it also Lots of games wouldn't make that jump, right? They're like, well, gathering logs is part of the game. Should we really allow the player to just offload that to an NPC? What's your take on that? I think it makes sense to give people the option to leverage that because survival crafting, well, it is fun to explore for resources and build a base.
00:26:50
Speaker
um If you don't want to engage with that as much, you could have Kevin do it. And it's it's so nice because as we were exploring like the base building and crafting.
00:27:02
Speaker
We were even saying like, Oh, Kevin's actively doing things. Well, we're figuring out what we want to do. Exactly. Yeah. So yeah, it's a progress. Yeah. It feels like you're still, as you said, making passive progress, and you so maintain base. <unk> It's a pretty good option. He would go around and fix things up that I did not even know how to fix yet. Yeah.
00:27:27
Speaker
The other nice thing about about the ah the helper is
Cave Exploration and Inventory Woes
00:27:30
Speaker
like when you tell him to like fill up storage for an item for logs, I don't know if he would cut down trees. If he did, he wasn't very efficient at it. He fucking did, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Because I remember there was a time that we were both in base. I hear a tree come down. It takes out like several vertical logs that we had stacked as a wall of spikes.
00:27:52
Speaker
This is at the first base, you know, the one we have to abandon. Mm hmm. Get into that later, but. ah Yeah, Kevin cut it down and just took a chunk out of the wall. Yeah. He's not the most efficient at that compared to like the speed that you can gather things. But what you can do is um for other resources, smaller resources than logs, he's fairly quick about it and he'll he'll gather like a bundle at a time.
00:28:18
Speaker
Um, but if you just build like a lot of storage, so like three to four stick storage, um, racks basically, and then just be like, fill stick storage, give him like that command. He just goes and you can just do something else in the game and come back. And there's just hundreds of sticks, like as many as you possibly need. Um, and that's where his real value comes from. It's the bulk background process. Um,
00:28:47
Speaker
We should talk about the base though. Cause you mentioned that we had that first base, which is a big part of this game. Do you miss, do you miss the first base? So fucking awesome. It was pretty cool. It was high investment. We had like a set up with that stuff, like a a tree house. Um, we had a tree house, a lookout. Yeah.
00:29:11
Speaker
Bunch of spikes everywhere. Two good walls, a cliff face on one side of the camp. Actually a cliff kind of on both sides of the camp. One of them was ah ah a ridge and the other one was a cliff. So we're kind of like on a ah plateau sort of thing. I don't know where he keeps making up these words from, but yeah. And then a river right next to us, which was awesome. We had some fish traps there. Um,
00:29:35
Speaker
and cannibals every night. Yeah. So the main reason we wanted to stop there, great view, all the things that Jake was describing. Uh, they also had two tents, which are kind of like built in save points. If you don't had one, have a bed built. There's some supplies there. We kind of knew about the respawning thing. We're like, this seems advantageous. Let's set up camp. Let's do this. And Anytime that we would try and go to sleep, we'd be interrupted like, hey, there's enemies nearby. We're like, oh, they were respawning the enemies there as well because there were a couple of enemy totems. So I guess that means they spawn there. Yeah. So ultimately, we had to abandon that base entirely because we couldn't get a night's rest, literally.
00:30:24
Speaker
Yeah, it was it was something where legitimately we were going to include it as like a negative about the game. The fact that the game would continually like spawn cannibals inside of your walls. Yeah, we we thought we had a breach in our defense, which is one of the reasons why I went so crazy on adding additional spikes and like maybe they're climbing the wall in the middle of the night really fast. it It's simulated or something like, oh, they found a way into your base. They got close enough. Now you woke up.
00:30:52
Speaker
and Absolutely not. The game was just putting them there at the point of interest. We built our base around. ah We could tell this because eventually we got fed up. ah Dave went out scouting to find a location for the second base. I loaded up a bunch of logs on a sled to take out there. And that was kind of a mistake. The sled itself was awesome, but I didn't realize you could put even more things on it. And it was very far away. The second base was really far away from the first. um So that was a trek.
00:31:23
Speaker
and But did you want to describe the ah second upsell, the second base for the potential it's investors, timeshare owners? Roll up your ears, kids. So basically, um enemies do not like water. I think they've realized that like, hey, I can't really swim.
00:31:43
Speaker
for my AI, I don't want to go in and drown. So we're like, oh, there's like a little island on this lake or pond. So like, OK, I'm going to swim out there, chop down a couple of trees there. We'll make a little shack. We don't have enough wood. OK, we can chop down some nearby trees and kind of like. Use our swimming bodies to push the wood ashore yeah and build something.
00:32:06
Speaker
I then say to Jake, hey, this method sucks ass. It's really really bad. How do you feel about like a land bridge? We'll just do, we'll build something point to point and we can carry supplies across it. And he's like, okay, I can get on board with that. And we're like doing the free form building where it doesn't have a template. We're like, okay, and this log goes here.
00:32:28
Speaker
And then we couldn't place on the water. Exactly. It was too good and build out diagonally. Yeah. And we really thought we were we were goofed. And then winter came. Yeah. And always on points. Also, it was a Christmas miracle. Uh huh.
00:32:49
Speaker
But yeah, then we were actually able to place logs. We made this whole land bridge across. We really kitted out the base as far as defense because the the the water froze so we could build the bridge across the water. Yeah.
00:33:01
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Sorry. If the winter kind was not, it did freeze. Yes. Yes. It was a solid object, um which made defending a little bit harder because they kind of skate across. But we had built the bridge, which was currently kind of useless because we could just walk to the island. But
Combat and Storyline Analysis
00:33:20
Speaker
um The question, though the big question was once the winter resolved and with the bridge. Yeah. And we were literally talking about like, Oh, should we put handrails on the bridge? Like how how how much do we want to build out around it and stuff? And they're like, let's just, let's just wait till spring. If this whole thing breaks apart in some merges, less of a good idea.
00:33:44
Speaker
We've been burned by the game previously at our last base. But it didn't, for the curious. When Spring came around, the game didn't recalculate all of the like physics. like you're modifying you're You're breaking blocks under sand in Minecraft or something like that.
00:34:00
Speaker
um And so the bridge maintained and then we were surrounded by actual water that the cannibals couldn't just run across and The bridge was a very defensible position Yeah, ah Jake made an alternate entrance for us where you had to jump across The helper AI just kind of walked through everything not giving a shit. Yeah, thankfully that was one of the good game design decisions It's like the NPC won't impale himself on your traps True, but they do allow friendly fire because I remember one time I was throwing a spear and I literally hit I hit Kevin in the head Mm-hmm, and then he was not respawning Just a corpse there just a map indicator of where he's at is there anything else you want to chat about overworld before we talk about the underworld I
00:34:52
Speaker
Um, yeah, I think I just wanted to give my impressions basically for that survival crafting thing. I do think that that's where a lot of the fun in the game was for me. Um, and building in particular, like that it's very satisfying. So it was satisfying in the first game.
00:35:10
Speaker
It's also satisfying here. There are some expansions to it. There's some minor improvements to Helper. That really was pretty much peak forest, ah Sons of the Forest um for me. So um if you get into it and you do end up wanting to play with friends or something like that, I would do that first. That's probably probably the place you're going to extract most of your enjoyment. um But yeah, that's my not now that those those are my notes for the surface.
00:35:41
Speaker
Actually, while we're still on the surface, before we go down below, I want to say the most fun part of the game for me, I believe, was these new traversal options. Oh, yeah. So in the first game, it's like,
00:35:54
Speaker
you can walk around and then in this game they give you access to go carts, gliders, ah night fives. If you're like a very fast uni wheel that can jump. ah hu Yes, you can use an ax while on the night five. It makes you feel like a powerful psychotic person, but you definitely psychotic. If you were on a Uno wheel wielding an axe, that's a stupid decision. to time and Like was it 2012 or 2016 with all like the crazy clowns doing weird stuff, but
00:36:28
Speaker
it It was nice to go and explore, but be able to get somewhere quicker without just trekking and burning through stamina. Yeah. Cause that part kind of felt tedious. Yeah. Gliders definitely a standout. I can't remember if there was anything to assist traversal in the first game, not that I remember. Um,
00:36:49
Speaker
I don't think there was. I remember you could build snow shoes, but that just helped in the snow. That's right. I don't think it really made you faster. Yeah, nothing on nothing to the degree you can get in this game. um And the glider is a stand out. Yeah, it it's actually just very chill, very powerful, a great option to skip any threats between A and B. um Yeah. And if you as long as you can get clearance and don't crash it immediately, ah you can go for a great distance. Yeah. Mm hmm. Absolutely. And also, I don't think you can kill yourself in those.
00:37:27
Speaker
You can't crash into something and go down. Yeah, I think this the only situation that you could is if something hit the glider to cause you to drop out of the glider and then you took all the damage. and Um, but as Dave demonstrated, you can literally just plummet into the ground at maximum speed. And there is no fall damage from that. You just dismount the glider. It's so fun. It's, ah it's, something I don't know why they did it that way. Um, the other thing, sorry to interrupt. Oh, okay. Good.
00:38:03
Speaker
My favorite vehicle or traversal option would actually have to be the the golf cart. Yeah. It has a radio. It has four seats. So Jake can sit in the back and just watch as a he sees us tumble down the mountain. ah And also if you tumble down the mountain, I think we went off like a an 18-story cliff just rolling down and we took no damage. it just side over side what did We're fine and then we just kept driving. Yeah, I don't think the golf carts actually have health. um If you get hit while you're in it because like a cannibal or mutant attacks you or something, one, it has to actually like hit you. um Your hitbox is vulnerable while you're in it, but
00:38:50
Speaker
It doesn't damage the cart. like The carts are immortal. They will make it all the way down the highest peak, end over end, all the way to the bottom. And you also will not take any damage if you're in the cart, in any of the seats. it's It's truly a blessing of a vehicle. And whenever we'd come across enemy camps, Jake started this, not me.
00:39:11
Speaker
But he would start driving into the cannibals yeah or the zombies. It's very pragmatic. It's got some ah some dead rising vibes. ah you can You can take limbs off the cannibals with it. Pretty no problem. But mutants may be less of a good idea. um Yeah, your your car kind of stops and then they look down at you. Yeah, yeah. All right, you ready to go underground? Let's go underground. Let's let's let's talk about what's down there.
00:39:42
Speaker
What is down there? I don't know if that was a handoff to me or a handoff to you. It's a lot of darkness. It's a lot of darkness. Blues and black colors. Blues, blacks, whites. Not as many whites. Not as many together in perfect harmony.
00:39:59
Speaker
But yeah, to what Jake was saying earlier, the caves are very samey. Like they do feel good as far as caves and the way they're designed. But as you're exploring, it is very easy to feel lost, which maybe that's what you're going for. And that part's fine. But as we go from cave to cave,
00:40:21
Speaker
I could not tell you at any point which cave is which cave. Yeah. There wasn't really much in the way of identifying were like landmarks. ah There was one really big cave with some very interesting stuff in it.
00:40:37
Speaker
But then like I would look on the map and like they're all the same cave marker. Yeah. It has the same icon. There's no you entered the cave and it tells you like you're in the climbing cave or something like that. It was up to you to be able to like be like, OK, this was the entrance. This was the thing at the entrance. Therefore, it's marked like this. Because we did, unfortunately, find ourselves in a situation where we were revisiting caves to determine if we missed anything.
00:41:04
Speaker
Low point for the game, for sure. Yeah. if If you ever have to make players backtrack, it's just adding TDM and points should be taken away. Yeah. it's There's something to be said for minimal information to like maximize realism or whatever in a game. But this is a video game. And literally hitting us with a check mark on a cave where we had gotten all the major items from it.
00:41:31
Speaker
would have been golden. Yeah, or something in like a journal. Oh, I was here. Yeah. Not really ah any reason to disallow it. And it would have improved the experience a lot um because you do find like there are some caves you may not have the traversal options to like get through, um notably the rebreather ah to go through like water sections. That that was like the massive one.
00:41:59
Speaker
You get a zipline launcher, but because they can't guarantee that you don't just waste all of your zipline ammo, it's never necessary in the entire game. Once. It's not never even once. Yeah, no. I think I made one zipline into our first base as like a science. Let's try it out. They're cool. And then never again. Yeah.
00:42:23
Speaker
I forgot about it. There was legitimately some times I think when it would have been kind of cool to use it. And the only time I used it was when we were screwing around at the top of the mountain and I wanted to like climb between peaks faster or whatever. I was like, oh yeah, I have that thing that I literally have never needed to use.
00:42:41
Speaker
I feel like to give you a lot of things. Yeah, too many. I mean, it's cool as options, but there were so many melee weapons. Yeah. Mm hmm. Which I don't know how much variety you really need. It's like very the stats.
00:42:59
Speaker
yeah it's Also, because we're talking about it having a lot of things, your inventory is a mess. It is. and The UI sucks. I don't care if you want to say it's immersive. Trading sucks. All of that felt very difficult to navigate through just to, oh, I want to give Jake some mushrooms.
00:43:19
Speaker
aha They're literally, in my opinion, outside of one edge case, there's no downside or there's no upside to having the trading interface versus just letting you drop stuff on the ground. If you could just drop stuff out of your normal inventory, that would cover 99.9% of the potential trading situations in the game. Because you're not trading, right? You're not hitting confirm, trying to scam somebody or whatever.
00:43:43
Speaker
You open up like a little side pouch thing that you can tab through 18 tabs of your inventory to find what you're looking for. You basically just dropping it, but in their inventory, you just give it to them. yeah Then why not just allow them to go into their normal inventory instead of making a separate thing you have to tab through? It's I don't know. It's some weird choices there. If you could just drop it on the ground and they could just pick it up.
Final Impressions and Future Recommendations
00:44:10
Speaker
Most of the time that would be fine. The only time that would be bad would be if you're in a dark area or it falls off a cliff or something like that. But like, I wouldn't have been upset. I wouldn't have been like, this game doesn't it have me. Give me the option to directly give you something. um I would just move to a well-lit area or away from the cliff and then do the trade. Right. So. Yeah, it's.
00:44:33
Speaker
I don't know. It has this effect on me where like we were literally talking about the caves and I started the tangent off on this point because there were times like we're exploring a cave. You're like, oh, I'm in cave mode. I'm curious. We're looking around for stuff. And then you'd have to be like, do you have any flares? Like, oh, let me get you some. And then it it breaks the game pacing and immersion where you just kind of get out like your Pokemon ah trading card bind or your page and through you're like, oh, here you go. Uh huh.
00:45:03
Speaker
It's it really is an issue in that, like, so we briefly described the normal inventory. It's basically like a tarp laid out on the ground and then everything that you have collected through the entire game gets placed on this tarp. And spatially, you can learn where things are. And that's the one upside, basically, as you're eventually you're like, oh, the sticks are always in the bottom right. Yeah, but yeah exactly. um But It is inconvenient to traverse in a way that really rivals like, even like Resident Evil's like Tetris inventory. So the main difference there, Tetris inventory, you can see all the shit in your inventory. Exactly. In this, you literally have to pan left and right to see, oh, I didn't even know I had alternate shirts over here on the right. Uh huh.
00:45:57
Speaker
And they they they introduce mitigation for this by giving you the backpack, and you can like attach specific items to the backpack as kind of like a quick access. And then they literally give you the ability to use the hot bar. So I don't want any of the comment that any of the developers in the comments like tracking us down on Facebook, being like, you guys didn't understand how the game worked. We know.
00:46:17
Speaker
But there still are times where you have to traverse the inventory. And every time I was like, why is this not a grid? Why is this not something I can type a text box to filter in? Right. Cause for me, I don't care if it's a little bit more immersive. If it is less convenient to play as a video game. Right. Yeah. I'm not going to.
00:46:38
Speaker
at any point be like, Oh my God, this is increasing my experience of the video game, but that exists that way. I'm just like, Oh no, this is a little bit inconvenient. Therefore I'm just going to have the negative reaction to it. Yeah.
00:46:53
Speaker
And there are just generalized, just wrapping up my thoughts on this real quick, because I'm just ranking the inventory at this point. No, no. But like even when you're trading with another player, they don't give you your full inventory view. You're literally tabbing through with two buttons like a list of maybe up to 10 items, depending on like how they're categorized.
00:47:14
Speaker
um And so like if I'm like, okay, let me give you cooked meat I'm just hitting here like mashing on my keyboard till I find the cooked meat in my inventory so I can pass it over and That completely undercuts the knowledge I would have gained about where meat goes in my normal inventory Because now I'm dealing with this little micro Clipboard inventory and so like they realized it was a problem. That's the thing I'm getting at they realized that like it wasn't concise enough to trade with and so they came up with with a different solution and That's kind of the issue one of the issues with the game is the solutions They come up with do not always match the problem or fully address the concern I would have um
00:47:59
Speaker
It's like, yes, that is technically an alternate approach. Is it better? No, not really. No, no, it's just another thing. It kind of it just is another thing. Um, we haven't talked about the mutants at all. Um, they're cool. I like them. There's more in the caves. There you go. Now it's cave related. Oh God, we're back to the case. Yeah, it was cool too. Like they had, they had enough variety at a point where we had to,
00:48:26
Speaker
strategically interact with them in like some bigger fights. Like I know this guy's looking to jump. I need to strafe here. Um, the mouth guy does a three attack swing, stuff like that. Or just a little bit of Dark Souls, a lot of explosives and Molotov's there, depending what your inventory is stocked with. But It felt fairly good. It felt good. Yeah. I mainly like to use the the bows or spears because you you get to see them stick out of them. Yeah. And then you could recollect them. And there was good balancing around that. Right. Like the ranged weapons obviously have the advantage of you can you can go on a Skyrim rock sometimes where they can't reach you or whatever. Right.
00:49:10
Speaker
but like the downside to the ranged weapons is you cannot block with them at all and so blocking is also a massive form of damage mitigation like dodging is better but some of these things have wide sweeping attacks where you're likely to get clipped and We got clipped so much like both in the I got hit in my hit box and also yeah I got something to fucking talk about. This is triggered a core memory of our gameplay. ah So we're talking about the combat. If somebody goes down, you have the option to res them. yeah You hold and interact, but it doesn't consume anything. And then boom, they're up. But they're not up instantly. They kind of have like a getting up animation.
00:49:56
Speaker
yeah You're like, oh, animation, that must mean iframes. You would be wrong. You would be wrong. Mm hmm. There were so many times where Jake would pick me up and like, oh, I'm up. Jake, I'm down. And I never got the options to actually move or interact with the game. I was just kind of going up and down in place. And that just felt very.
00:50:18
Speaker
Silly? I don't know. It is silly. It's it's very gamified. right it doesn't really It's not immersive at all. um There are so many ways they could have dealt with it. They could have given you iframes. Even if they would have just deprioritized the enemies attacking you until you were on your feet, that would kind of work. But we found ourselves in situations where that really wasn't the case.
00:50:40
Speaker
And the enemy seems less interested in the person who is still up and running around than just getting another hit on the guy that just is in the animation of starting up. Right. So just back to back to back to back. OK, here's the end. OK, I'm back down again. All right. We're all therere back down again. Both of us were in that position at multiple times. I got knocked down. Yeah. And I'm down again. And it it feels like um You're kind of like rez tanking almost in some of these fights. Like that's the easiest way to describe it, I guess. Jake's constantly shooting and shooting with his left hand, rezzing me with his right hand. Yeah. Just keep tanking Dave. We're good. Yeah. know Um, it does. There were times that we both did go down and they do have a different like death penalty in this one. How did you feel about the way they implemented it in sons of the forest?
00:51:31
Speaker
I'm trying to remember the the difference in implementation, um but in this one here, ah you essentially show up at the closest camp um Kind of like enemy camp. Yeah, enemy camp. um And then you kind of have to pick up your stuff and then leave or fight them if there's some at the camp. And then in the caves, you kind of spawn in some goop. Yeah. And you cut your way out of it. You pick up your backpack and then you go on your way. So it's kind of like a fixed spawn points based on whatever is closest. Right. I didn't dislike it at all. I thought it was
00:52:14
Speaker
perfectly fine. Because I hate when things say like, oh, it has to be the last bed you slept at and you have to either carry around a bed or you go maybe really far back to your base where from away from where you were exploring.
00:52:27
Speaker
brett Yeah, I guess I agree. It is very gamey because dave Dave experienced this when one of the scouting sessions, you were fighting the camp um where you were also respawning. And so if this were to be told as a story, Dave was captured, cut himself down with a visible knife.
00:52:51
Speaker
started to fight the cannibals. The cannibals knocked him to the ground, put him back up on the post, put the knife back into his pack, so he can use it again. And that was the gameplay. Put that behavior. It's very gamified. But it does give you, the important thing is if you die in this game, the penalty is you're being dislocated, not your bones. Physically in the game, you're being moved to a different location. Yeah.
00:53:20
Speaker
it It feels really nice that when you die in this game that you're not losing anything. Mm hmm. Because again, you pick up a lot of resources, to have a lot of other items. um I'm just glad that you're not penalized for it, because it felt like we we got into some situations on more than one occasion. Yeah.
00:53:41
Speaker
it would have been It would have been really rough, especially subsequent deaths. Like if you lost stuff from your inventory, you would have been naked, basically. Certain points in the game based on the number of times we we were dying. um Naked except for this knife. ha ah um So I guess that's fine. I did think they'd take that from the first game.
00:54:00
Speaker
Um, because in the first game, I think it's your first death. Um, they put you in the cave, actually. Oh, yeah. That's the the forced introduction to the caves, even if you die on the surface, um, which is kind of more unique, a little bit more interesting than the way they do it here. But clearly people like that approach. Um, so yeah they to incentivize going into the caves. Yeah. But.
00:54:30
Speaker
That works too. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to ask you what is because this is one of the the three things you mentioned. What did you think about the story, Jacob? Yeah. Yeah, this game has one, I guess. It's.
00:54:46
Speaker
Very difficult. I don't even know if I want to talk about specifics. Like that's basically where I'm at. It's so esoteric. And mentioning the things that happen doesn't even really provide any context because like I didn't understand them while they were happening. 100 percent. It's very I would say it's very similar in some ways to the story of the first game as far as like, hey,
00:55:15
Speaker
You have some motivation and then this is going to lead into mysteries. But like the mysteries go so off the rail and sons of the forest that at a certain point, you're kind of like you're holding W, right? You're like, I don't really know what's going on, but I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to go through that door. Yeah. Yeah. It's then fucking we're doing spoilers, right? Sure. Yeah.
00:55:45
Speaker
Fucking Timmy shows up. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, they're bringing back somebody from the first game who had to like live through the hell on this island. And it's been 20 years. And then Timmy has like 15 words that he says, total. And then his dad also shows up and they do nothing with it. Yeah, not. They're kind of just there.
00:56:09
Speaker
I was, there's a point where you're running through a cave with Timmy and he actually assists to some degree in combat. And I was surprised cause I was like, why did you program that? Right? Like this, it's such a specific instance and any other time.
00:56:27
Speaker
They use the same sort of cut scenes as the first game, which is like the person who triggered the cut scene sees it in first person and is like in locked animation and all that stuff for what's happening in the cut scene. And then the other players can just like run around while the cut scenes going on and watch it in third person. um I guess technically still first person to their own perspectives, but they're not locked into the cut scene camera. yeah um And yeah, it's just.
00:56:58
Speaker
it it It really hits a lot of the same beats as far as like, oh, humans are turned being turned into mutants. And mankind was really the monster all along, but also multidimensional stuff. And what's going on in outer space? We don't know. Nobody knows.
00:57:14
Speaker
um And I don't think the developers know. I don't get to use the phrase ham-fisted enough. um That's one of the mutants, I think.
00:57:29
Speaker
Ham-fisted and piecemeal are strung together, but yeah, it felt like they just kind of threw something together, which you could honestly make a very generic plot and just still have it interesting, have some form of progression that ties to the story. yeah um But they're like, oh, we need to lean on this. And again, we we talked about this several times when we were playing.
00:57:56
Speaker
It felt like they were adopting an older game design strategy because you're like, oh, here's the 90s, boss. And I exactly knew what you meant. Like um it almost takes a cartoony turn. When a lot of the tone of the earlier parts of the game as you're uncovering the story um is very bleak in comparison. I don't know. The whole thing is fucking weird.
00:58:24
Speaker
Yeah, it really is kind of like the third gameplay. There's the cave stuff, which I'm not a huge fan of, as I mentioned, the above ground stuff, which I am a pretty big fan of. And then there's like linear corridor shooter, almost like sort of gameplay for some of it.
00:58:42
Speaker
And I thought that was fine. ah yeah I prefer that actually more than the caves to be completely honest, but it's not inspired. This isn't isn't beating out any Wolfenstein game or anything like that. so But they feel like they need to include those combat bosses, right? like Mecha Hitler, I didn't expect. I'll be honest. like I don't know how they put them in this book. No, i'm i'm I'm in the same boat. And by the time I was like done with the game, the story was kind of like a checkbox a little bit. I was ready for the credits.
00:59:18
Speaker
Um, and I wasn't like, okay, there was some trans transcendental final encounter or reveal or anything like that. That really tied the whole experience together. Um, it was just like, yeah, I could see how the team that made the first game made this one. Yeah. It's, I didn't want to say it at the beginning of the episode, because then you wouldn't need to listen to the rest of it, but reel them in. Here's my summarized version. Same game.
00:59:49
Speaker
Yeah. In a lot of ways, yeah. If the first is cheaper and you really or care like you hear about the base building and stuff, there are some reasons to go into the second for that. But I think the first, I would score the first higher than the second. um Not like they were both released today, but with the context, the first one was their first attempt. The second one was their second attempt. There's not enough here.
01:00:15
Speaker
It just, again, the story of the first Uncovering the Mystery felt subversive and I got pulled in and I gave a shit. Yeah. And that became cool. And then in the second one, it really felt like they just went downhill in that direction. And you can be playing as anybody. No resources into that.
01:00:39
Speaker
Like, for the second game, your character could beat anyone. In fact, I don't remember their name. Also, our models changed constantly. When we'd load back in. That is funny, yeah. We were never the same character. Yeah, whenever we we were playing multiplayer, I assume it's different in single player. But like, there'd be we'd load in, and sometimes Dave was playing like a white avatar. Sometimes he'd be black. Like, theres just I have no idea. It wasn't because he gave us the option to select them either, right?
01:01:08
Speaker
like You just load in and you're a random person Which is weird and that's that's kind of how it feels like your impact on the story You're just like oh, I'm just some random guy who shows up. Yeah and Again, how can you be invested if you're not really a part of this story exactly you're kind of just cold casing it What happened here before? or ahha Looks at series of journal notes that people thankfully write down in place. Yeah, technically, the reason that your character is on the island was to investigate the district, the disappearance of people that you find like 60, 70 percent into the story of the way into the story.
01:01:50
Speaker
and then the rest of it is just like we don't really need to give you another motivation like this is a video game right you're just gonna you're just gonna explore the next thing it's fine we'll work your way through it do you want to get off the island i guess vaguely you can fill in that own your own motivation you can compare and contrast that to the first game which basically did the Fallout 4 plot line of like Where's Sean? In this case, Temmie. But that plot line actually continued through the entire game. like That was your driving force. Exactly. All the way until the end. And you don't have anything nearly as strong in this one.
01:02:28
Speaker
um So if you don't have that, it's whatever they spin up that you should be invested in, in this story. And they don't spin up anything. So other than see the credits, there's not as much of a reason to do the story, to be completely honest. Which is unfortunate. Build the base, utilize Kevin's powers,
01:02:51
Speaker
There you go. And I know we're at time. I was going to mention this because we talked about what would be done to fix it. Right. And I thought of a very concise way to to to fix that marriage. Right. To get your parents back together again. It's the caves in the above ground. And that that can be boiled down to a single word. And that word is subnautica.
01:03:18
Speaker
which is a game that gave you reasons to go places, gave you rewards for exploring, and then forced you to come back and utilize that in your base. There you go. Done. Yeah. It's called having like a progression. You allow people to unlock more stuff as you go, like a Metroidvania. Yeah.
01:03:43
Speaker
yeah But they should have given us a Cyclops. It's all I'm saying. Give us a big submarine. That's fine. Spoiling three games in this one now, but that's fine. The statue of limitations on spoilers for Subnautica, it was like 2018 game or something. Play it if you have it, it's better. Any closing thoughts? what ah what what What's the one piece of advice they need for the Force Three? Daughters of the Force.
01:04:14
Speaker
How do I make it multiple things in one piece? Do better. He does two words. Do better. Stop being so bad. It doesn't have to be a single thing, but I was. So I think one of the biggest things that we we're saying is intertwining the reason to explore into the caves and the base building. Again, just incentivize people to get specific crafting recipes to advance technology. Oh,
01:04:45
Speaker
How am I gonna get this cool new thing? Oh, I'm gonna go on a cave. Oh, I'm rewarded for it. Oh, I can make a cooler base. A lot more cool stuff for my base. I'm gonna go back in the cave. It has to be evolved. And then two, do anything different with the story. You could steal somebody else's very generic story. You could make it Hamlet. I don't care, but it needs to be interesting. Hamlet-fisted.
01:05:13
Speaker
because at no point did I care about the story. At no point did I know what was going on in the story. Um, yeah. Yeah. It just,
01:05:26
Speaker
You know what the vibe was for me when you talk about not knowing what's going on in the story? I'm kind of imagining, um, uh, was it the town of Innsmith from call of Cthulhu? And you're just, there's like, there's all these ominous vibes and it's what you don't know, right? It's the spaces between and all of this stuff. And it's just ominous and you really want to figure out everything that's going on. And it feels imperative that you figure it out.
01:05:52
Speaker
seems like they were aiming for that but with like none of the motivation and I really hope the developers don't listen to this now because it's like we really dug into it but that's the issue is there's no motivation there for the story there's nothing there to chase them but they were being very vague about it is what I'm trying to say right they were presenting as though this is a great mystery but it's like a great mystery as told in a monotone voice. That sounds very similar to another mystery. Yes. <unk>ve already heard yeah I agree with your points. That's my answer to the question.
01:06:30
Speaker
So anyways, hire Dave on as an advisor for forest three. um My advice for it, this is very in vogue these days. Make the E in forest the three. You're welcome. I expect a check in the mail. Dave's just shaking his head now. That's the correct response. Big sigh out of my nose. ah But we've done it. We've completed a game. Next time maybe we'll pick a good one.
01:07:00
Speaker
Soapstone podcast at gmail dot.com. If you want to send in the goodens or discuss them on Facebook, if you wish, Facebook dot.com slash soapstone podcast. And as always, we'll see you in the next one. Have a good night.
01:07:42
Speaker
rudies is not responsible for adverse side effects enjoy crunch what
01:08:07
Speaker
This is not responsible for adverse side effects. Enjoy.