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Episode 43: Chris Jericho's Boat Show & NJPW's Power Struggle
64 Plays7 years ago
Join this weeks hangout as Garrett & Derrick talk about the ROH tournament on Jericho's Cruise, NJPW's Power Struggle, Kota Ibushi's inevitable betrayal of Omega because of T-shirt sales, & Southern Underground Pro's most recent show!
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Transcript
Introduction & Spice Girls Discussion
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Predetermined, a pro wrestling hangout. I'm your host, Garrett Callender, and with me, as always, a man who will not be attending the Spice Girls reunion tour, but not due to lack of interest, due to them only doing it in the UK, Derek Halpin. It's amazing how many times I've said to myself, if they ever get back together and come near me, I'll go see their reunion show. And it just, it just seems like it's not meant to be.
00:00:28
Speaker
You would say the Spice Girls are your favorite faction, right? I mean, they started the women's evolution, right? I think they did. Yeah, I'll give them credit. Spice up your life, man. People around the world. I mean, are you legit? I mean, they're not coming to the States, right? That's kind of the rumor. I thought worst case scenario, I was going to drive to Chicago and see them with you. I didn't know that worst case scenario was not see it at all.
00:00:53
Speaker
How are you saying they're not going to come to Nashville? So if you guys haven't noticed, a big part of this show is starting the opening not talking about pro wrestling. Talking about something that most of you probably could give a fuck less about.
00:01:10
Speaker
That's great kindling to what is supposed to be a a swarming fire of a show is just starting talking nothing about wrestling. You know, you're sitting around with your buddies. You're on the couch. You don't want to jump straight into wrestling. So you're like, maybe I'll ask about the Spice Girls. And then everybody looks at you weird. So you're like, fucking, what about Jericho, though, man? That guy still does that. Why insult? How can we transition out of this? We hit our goddamn music.
Listener Engagement & Social Media
00:02:10
Speaker
So I feel it's important to now that we're done with that awkward ass intro, we do think it's important to comment on the fact that we have been getting some more ratings and some more reviews on iTunes. So we want to say thank you to people who've been doing that for us. Again, we appreciate it. If you do have time, give us the five stars. Leave us a review. We really appreciate it. And as always, if you leave us a review, we have no qualms whatsoever about watching anything you want as long as it's pro wrestling related.
00:02:40
Speaker
And I do want to call out, we got a couple new reviews. We have one from Remarkand, R-A-M-A-R-K-N-D. He found out about us at All In, and he says we're knowledgeable about wrestling.
00:02:54
Speaker
jokes on them. After that intro this week, I think it's up for debate, right? What do we know about the Spice Girls? So much. What do I know about pro wrestling? Learning as I go. Welcome to another episode of Predetermined at Pro Wrestling Hangout where we talk about hockey and the Spice Girls.
00:03:13
Speaker
We also had one from Chris Law and we had an old one that just appeared from JakeD268. If any of you guys or gals posted those reviews, hit us up on the social media, at, I was gonna say my own, at Wrestle Hangout on Twitter, at Predetermined Podcast on Instagram. Let us know that you left those reviews and let us know what you want us to watch because I am very, very excited.
Diverse Topics & Wrestling Anecdotes
00:03:41
Speaker
It's been such a, what would you call it, an interesting week in the world of pro wrestling? You mean because no, like, enormous shows happened? Nothing big happened in the world of pro wrestling this week? It was kind of dull? I don't think dull would be the word I would use to describe this past week, but...
00:04:02
Speaker
I mean, there's a lot of topics we can hit on. It's kind of a big week in the world. There's elections going on and whatnot. Which, we're recording this on Tuesday. I hope you voted. If you're hearing my voice right now, it's too fucking late.
00:04:17
Speaker
Couple days late. We don't know how it's going to turn out. We don't know if you're happy or sad. But if you're listening to this podcast, we hope we can make you happy regardless. Yeah, we hope by the end of this, you feel like you got your hand raised in victory because you hung out with your buddies, Garrett and Derek sitting here chatting, wrestling. Yes, you dealt with the Spice Girls stuff. We're here now. We're here for you.
00:04:38
Speaker
For our St. Patrick's Day episode, can we get drunk and do an episode together? Oh, yeah. I'm not a drinker. Doesn't that seem appropriate? Yeah, just so you guys know, not a drinker at all. This could be a mess. Yeah, that's a good idea. That's a great, terrible idea. This is going to be a nightmare, and I'm going to feel sick on a Wednesday.
00:04:57
Speaker
but we do have something on the calendar to look forward to. We do need more themed shows where anything that can make podcasting harder while we're doing it. Because we do so great, so well. We're really nailing it. Predetermined a drunken hangout coming this March, I guess.
00:05:22
Speaker
Well, obviously, you know what the other one is. You get to hear, I mean, Derek, I want to get high. That's on 420.
00:05:35
Speaker
Ah, so not for the next month, baby. That's the next month. Oh, yeah, and then what are we gonna do? We're gonna podcast on LSD. We're gonna eat a handful of mushrooms and go slowly escalate. Well, it started out, they talked about wrestling, and it quickly got to where they were just doing drugs.
00:05:57
Speaker
It started with booze. Is the peak of the mountain that shit that Papashenko gave to the ultimate warrior that made him vomit black slime or whatever it was? Yeah, does anybody have a lead on that? How do you get your hands on that shit? Yeah, see, now that's what I wanna podcast on. You get me that and then have me watch some real weird shit from the ruthless aggression era. That's when I'm gonna be at my peak podcasting.
00:06:27
Speaker
I think a new angle on this show that is really underappreciated is the fact that you basically are clueless on so much shit from the ruthless aggression era. Like we should do more stuff from that time period. Oh, the second you come up with something where you're like, oh man, this is going to break him. I need you to break me. I need you to find me a storyline that is so overtly sexual. I don't know if I like that. You think that was sexual. You said I need you to break me.
00:06:59
Speaker
Derek, you need to grow up. Not everything's about sex. Okay, we do play Mary Fucker Kill on this show. Give me three, let's do it real quick. Kenny, Cody, and Marty. Ooh. Well, yeah, that's a hard one. The thing that makes it hardest is I don't know what to do with Marty.
00:07:26
Speaker
Cause Kenny Omega is the biggest wrestler, you know, the best wrestler in the world. But Cody, like if we're going to talk about the Jericho thing, Cody got such a huge pop on that Jericho boat. He did. I think the crowd was torn on who they wanted to cheer for because they wanted to cheer everybody.
00:07:44
Speaker
That was fun. I know we're not quite there yet, but since we're talking about it, that was a really fun match. It's not often that you get to just see all the baby faces you know and love, kind of be heelish both at the same time.
00:08:00
Speaker
Well, stop commenting on the match. We'll save that for a moment from now. Answer my merry fucker kill. This is on the spot. This was not in today's notes. If you're listening to this, we did not have anything written down that said do another merry fucker kill. I pulled that one out of my ass. And now, Garrett, I'm going to marry Cody Rose. I'm going to marry Cody Rose. You're marrying Cody. Because I think that I've got a future there. I think he's setting up something that's going to really have us set for life. You've seen Kenny Omega. Look at that guy.
00:08:30
Speaker
Maybe me, him, Coda, Blushie get in there? I don't know. The conviction with what you said. Look at that guy. Look at that guy. I guess a couple of the things that you inherit if you marry Cody is you do get Pharaoh and Brandy.
00:08:46
Speaker
I mean, there are perks already built in. And I would like to think I'd get a pretty good seat for all into maybe even a little cameo. If you try hard enough, you can get one of those anyway. And I'm you know, we don't know what Marty's up to. He's been hanging out with Zack Ryder a lot down in Orlando. I mean, I've got to kill Marty on this one. Why are you killing the guy with the best like the he's I think he's got the best ring music in the biz right now.
00:09:14
Speaker
because I'm a little bit of a gold digger in this one. I'm going with Cody because I see a future, I'm betting on him. I think this game always comes down to gold digging. The rationale behind why you marry somebody, every time we've done it, it's been about stability. Well, what, I mean, yeah, I don't see him, he never betrays Brandy. You think he would betray me? Predetermined, a couple of fucking gold diggers. Ugh.
00:09:44
Speaker
I don't know. Marty's got a pretty good dog, too. Fuck him. You're going to fuck him? You've changed your answer? I did not change my answer. He's done. You kill Kenny? You're marrying Cody? If I killed Kenny Omega, the wrestling community would never forgive me. Speaking of entrance music, how do you feel about Kenny's?
00:10:07
Speaker
It doesn't get me that excited, honestly. I was thinking about the new Japan music that does get me excited. I mean, does that one do it for you? Kenny? Yeah. I was thinking about that. We should really just transition into the fucking Jericho cruise so that we can talk about all this stuff. But I've seen people online rave at different times about different people's entrance music. It's part of the pro wrestling realm. This discussion does come up quite frequently.
00:10:34
Speaker
But I've seen people talk about Kenny's music before and how it gets them stoked. And when I was watching the Jericho cruise, it finally dawned on me and I've heard his music a million times. But I had this conversation with myself where I was like, why is it that I can't get as stoked about his music as other people do? And I realized it's because I hear his music and I think of RPG dungeon battle music. That's what I hear.
00:10:59
Speaker
So you're ready to have to go on a chant or on a turn based thing where it's like okay he's gonna hit a V trigger and then he's gonna run back to this side. They're gonna stare at each other in a dancing position for a little bit until this guy maybe does a magic thing that may or may not work.
00:11:15
Speaker
Which seems like if that was the system that Fire Pro Wrestling had come up with for their game, you might have done better when playing. God, I suck at that game. Anyways, anyways, we got a lot of stuff to talk about in this episode and we've done a lot of
00:11:31
Speaker
Skirting around a bunch of issues. So I guess we'll just go ahead and talk about it. What did you think about the whole Jericho cruise the way it looked the way things? Sounded the vibe from the fans everything about it even going back to when it was the concept came up What was your reaction to how things kind of went down?
00:11:48
Speaker
Well, I think my initial reaction to it was it sounded lame, but that's only because I have no interest in ever going on a cruise. That's just not for me. I know a lot of people love cruises, so my thought was, I don't really want to go, just because I don't want to be on a boat that long, ever. Are you afraid of being on a boat? No, I was, you know, something people might not know about me. I was on swim team for 14 years. I'm all set with water. I barely wanted to do it then. Like, I'm just...
00:12:18
Speaker
Like, I think we talked about this a few episodes ago, like during the summer when I went to a water park and had no interest. It's the same. I've seen you over the last 10, 12 years. You've become a guy that wears black jeans and dark clothes a lot. I'm not saying you're goth, but you're definitely not the outdoorsy type.
00:12:41
Speaker
I'm an indoor kid. You're an indoor boy. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. There's a lot of us, and I think a lot of us are called pro wrestling fans, goddamn it. There's some people who are a little upset that you're not more in touch with the environment and nature. Hey, I like the environment. I want to treat the environment well. I don't want to go on a goddamn boat cruise.
00:13:01
Speaker
But do you really think that people who were going on this were like, yeah, I get to go on a cruise or did you? I interpreted the cruise as it's a twist on like a vacation. And if you're not into cruises, you can still be into going to this because it's the idea that you're essentially in a floating hotel that's hosting pro wrestling and rock and roll and stand up comedy and whatnot.
00:13:25
Speaker
Until you said, I know you mentioned that I think last week or the week before, when you kind of worded it as, yeah, but it's a wrestling vacation. I was like, okay, I get that more now. It's kind of a one-stop shop. I think on cruises all the food is there. I like the idea of food just being accessible and free.
00:13:45
Speaker
Once again, you get back to the actual pro wrestling, which is what we're here to discuss, not the Spice Girls, not the food, not my time in the swim team. The wrestling, all of it was outside. I'm always more excited if something's indoors. I don't want to get sunburnt while having to watch Beer City Bruiser. Why are you such a pussy about things? Just in general?
00:14:10
Speaker
Yeah, while we're there. No, I'm weirded out. Like if I was going to say anything about this show being outside, because to me that was a given that since they were on a cruise, unless they had like a gymnasium that was huge in the bowels of the ship, which I didn't think, but you never know.
00:14:27
Speaker
I assumed this would be outside. And to me, the thing that, like, I didn't think about until I was watching it, which was the crowd was hot as hell. They were into it. They were excited to be there. And the sound, anything that they chanted, anything that they cheered or booed, it just disappeared up into the air. And it's not a knock on the show, really, is just so much. Oh, you don't really appreciate that until you see people that are getting big responses in an outdoor environment.
00:14:54
Speaker
Like, it's not a knock on the show, it's a knock on Mother Nature's goddamn acoustics. Why didn't they think about this? I guess when I pictured going on a cruise and watching this, I'm like, oh, well, they're going to, they're going to set the ring up in the Great Hall. And just know, all I know about cruises are all based off the movie Titanic, or Speed 2 cruise control. Really? I've not been on one. Neither have I, but...
00:15:24
Speaker
So you didn't picture that the ring was going to be in the center of some kind of great hole with just a glorious staircase that Jack and Rose walked down to get in the ring? I mean, that would have been nice.
00:15:40
Speaker
I will say this, if they had been able to replicate that grand staircase from Titanic as the entrance, as the stage, instead of just like a door that people come through with a big security guy in a yellow shirt escorting you to the ring. Okay, yeah, hold it there. Why did he, why? Why was he there? The security guy.
00:16:02
Speaker
Yeah, I was wondering that. What rules apply differently on the boat than would at another wrestling show? Like, what was different? So, where they were walking out, there were still rails blocking all the fans. Yeah. No one was gonna, I mean, at a regular wrestling show, people don't rush and try and
00:16:19
Speaker
sex Kenny Omega or like run out and try and kill cheeseburger I don't know like they guarded everybody yeah with I mean that is one thing that every wrestler should feel good about everybody had the same level of security it did make me smile though because when Christopher Daniels came out for his match he put his arm around the security guy like fuck yeah and I've come up with two possible theories
00:16:42
Speaker
The first theory is boring. They were on a cruise and they thought it was going to be a party environment and they thought it was going to be a little bit too wild. I don't know if they were thinking like the WCW spring break where they did the shit in the pool was a little too rowdy. The other theory I have is that because it was the Jericho cruise and because Jericho
Jericho Cruise & Wrestling Speculations
00:17:02
Speaker
and WCW had Ralphis as his personal security guard at all times, maybe they were going with that theme.
00:17:12
Speaker
I like that your first theory is the people who run this cruise ship watched an old WCW pay-per-view. I'm not even that. It's like a wild party. I don't know. Is Ralphis still with us? Somebody needs to look that up. I would love to talk about Ralphis more on this show. Honestly, we could do a whole, we could do a best of Ralphis.
00:17:40
Speaker
Considering there was that day that when I was on the Mary Buck podcast and was given a Mary Fucker kill, I thought we were talking about Ralphis, but we were talking about Eugene.
00:17:50
Speaker
Yeah. And I looked like a real asshole. Yeah. Oh yeah. Didn't change my answer, but look like a dick. So no, I mean, it looked like it was fun to be at. And the tweets that were coming out from people online that were at this on this cruise made it seem like they were having a fucking blast. I really didn't hear any negativity.
00:18:13
Speaker
No, and that's why I think you and I need to go on this cruise together. We need to have a little vacation next year together. Take me to a place I don't want to go and change my mind. Surprising. Like a regular cruise, not a wrestling cruise? Like why the fuck are we deciding this now? Well, no, maybe that limp biscuit cruise. Do you remember the limp biscuit cruise from a few years ago?
00:18:48
Speaker
I don't have a problem playing Limp Bizkit's music. I just don't like being around Limp Bizkit fans. I believe he said something to that effect.
00:18:57
Speaker
I get it. You know what, we should go on a wrestle vacation is what I'm saying. We missed the, well we kind of did. I guess all in was more wrestling Christmas. I mean, you traveled for it, but I mean, to me it was basically in my backyard. Just going back to the show itself, because I don't remember what we were talking about prior to this. Well, I mean, there were several matches that were really good from this show. They obviously had the Sea of Honor tournament to determine who's going to face Jay Lethal for the Ring of Honor Championship.
00:19:27
Speaker
Okay, but as far as the people on the boat, all I can think about was how did they decide who gets to be in the zone to watch these? Because it didn't seem like a huge area. I mean, obviously it looked packed where they were, but I don't know how many a cruise ship holds. I assume a lot.
00:19:51
Speaker
Are you saying like was it just general admission is what you're asking? Well I'm asking like was everybody there a lot like based on like the package you got a lot of spots at these shows or was that truly everybody that was on the cruise ship because I feel like throughout the matches I'm watching people go back and forth just along the cruise ship and I'm thinking if you're not here to watch these guys wrestle then why are you here like what got you on this cruise ship that wasn't this?
00:20:18
Speaker
Are you asking if there were just regular cruise people on the ship? I think that would be hilarious if you thought like, I'm taking my wife on our anniversary. Honey, this is gonna be such a nice vacation. Oh shit, neck beards. Lots of them. And by the end, the husband is like wearing an old school WCW Halloween Havoc shirt and has his own neck beard. Yeah. Took you on vacation, found my calling babe. By the end of the vacation, they are divorced.
00:20:48
Speaker
How would your wife react if that happened to her? You took her on a trip. This literally took place on her anniversary and don't think that a few months ago I didn't say how would you feel and then just an immediate no. She could tell. She could tell something was coming that she didn't want to do. Yeah, but your wife knew that you were going to Wrestle Kingdom last year. That was her way of tricking me onto an airplane. It worked.
00:21:16
Speaker
Yeah, and I wish I could do it again this year. Very sad to miss it. So, again, like I said, it looked like the vibe there was pretty rad. Maybe they'll do another one of these. It seemed like it was pretty successful. I mean, you set the thing out. Yeah. Well, what matches from this stood out to you? I mean, obviously, the main event of the whole cruise was the Alpha Club versus the Bullet Club.
00:21:40
Speaker
But there, I mean, there was two or three other matches on this show that were just knock, like knockdown drag out fights. Well, if we start with what we were given on Fight TV or Honor Club, you didn't get the entire tournament. It kind of gave you the second tier of it. It gave you like a quick recap of everything that happened up until that point, correct? Yeah. Yeah. But the first one where I started.
00:22:05
Speaker
But the first one that it started with was Chris Daniels versus Dalton Castle. And they make that announcement saying that Dalton Castle suffered a head injury the night before and is not going to be participating. New music hits. We get smooth sailing Ashley Remington.
00:22:22
Speaker
Yeah, not Dalton Castle. And that shit is still stuck in my head. That song that was in the back. Oh, I loved that theme song. I was all about Smooth Sale and Ashley Remington, which Ashley Remington was Dalton Castle's old gimmick. I don't think he ever did that in Ring of Honor, but I think that used to be his name on the Endies. And he had to break it out for the show. It was just too appropriate. You can't not come out in that captain hat.
00:22:49
Speaker
Christopher Daniels allowed this to happen even though he was not fighting who he was scheduled to fight. Yes, and then at the end of any Ashley Remington match, I guess the thing is the loser gets a fruit basket. If I did have one critique, there were a lot of matches in this tournament that ended with roll-ups. Were there very many though that they were taking dives out of the ring?
00:23:17
Speaker
I don't know, I saw some spots out of the ring, especially like the Briscoes were doing stuff. Well, I just kind of noticed during the main event not to skip that far ahead, but it looked like the way the ring was set up, there were a lot of kind of tiered ledges right out on the outside. It seemed super dangerous. It seemed like to do any high spots out of the ring, you'd have to hit very specific areas. Correct. Yeah, no, that's a good point.
00:23:41
Speaker
But as far as what you were saying, I actually didn't pay attention to that. There were a lot of roll up finishes. Yeah, I think that's how that Christopher Daniels Dalton Castle match ended. And then Flip beat Marty, which was another, I thought that was a really fun match. I had a lot of fun with that one, especially the dynamic that just a few months ago they were taking Japan together. I am going to finally admit something on here that I don't think I've said so far. Okay. I don't get Flip Gordon.
00:24:12
Speaker
But I can accept that, but I will say this. Isn't the thing about Flip Gordon is that they're like, you're not supposed to get Flip Gordon? He's trying to figure out who he is right now. Wasn't that the running joke with him and Cody is that Cody just didn't accept whatever he was? And that pro wrestling is essentially like, I mean, even a thing with Bubba.
00:24:35
Speaker
that nobody's accepting him, isn't that? And as a result, he's being accepted? I guess, but even during all that, I just, I don't know, I've never, I take nothing away from how talented the man is and how athletic. Oh, good God, no. I just don't get, he's one that, you know, just sometimes you don't get a wrestler. And I mean, New Japan has a few of these guys, but Flip is one for me that I'm still, I'm still working on it.
00:25:01
Speaker
The funny thing is all it takes, and we've talked about this how many times, all it takes is a moment. Sometimes all it takes is one little thing that clicks. Sometimes it's a scarf. Sometimes it's a trombone. You never know. Maybe Flip hasn't found his thing yet. Well on, what was it a couple weeks ago on being the elite when he just showed up and was trying to join SCU? I did, I did enjoy that.
00:25:30
Speaker
just felt entitled where he's just like this is and they're just all staring at him that was great yeah so the match between um marty and flip i thought was good did you happen to catch that one i'll be honest i probably skipped over that one you asshole
00:25:48
Speaker
Go check that one out, that was actually pretty fun. That ended with a roll up and obviously, if you don't know, spoiler alert, Flip ends up winning this tournament. But the match that people have been talking about out of this tournament was the Briscoes facing each other. Holy shit.
00:26:04
Speaker
Like, if you're gonna watch this pay-per-view and you can only watch one match out of the entire thing, to me, that's the one to go to. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of ways you could describe this match. I think the most apt description, they literally just kick the shit out of each other. Like, and I emphasize kick.
00:26:23
Speaker
There's a spot in this match, you'll see a lot of things, you'll see a lot of matches where like the big thing deep into the match is guys exchanging forearms. Nah, this one's straight boots to the face while standing. And I mean, they've got a long history though of they've had other brutal matches against each other where I guess when you're just you're somebody's brother, we've talked about this before, you don't have a problem hitting them a little bit harder than you do somebody else.
00:26:53
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. Anytime I find out that one of those are getting ready to happen, I'm very excited. So as I started watching the tournament brackets go and I realized, holy fuck, I've never seen the Briscoes fight each other. I've, you know, wasn't watching Ring of Honor then, and I'm sure they've done it many times since, but this really was something special. Like when you see these two guys who just look like dirty maniacs,
00:27:21
Speaker
They're just, when you look in their eyes, you're like, oh, these guys are gonna fucking kill each other and then go home and have a beer together. Is it safe to say that you get the Briscoes? I get the Briscoes. Like, I understand who they are, I think. So, were you, what was your, I mean, we'll talk about this match, like, you know, briefly, I guess, but I was kind of expecting Mark to win this one.
00:27:45
Speaker
That's how they kind of, at least the commentary was hyping it up was that, you know, the younger brother and Jay's had all the success he's had. I was still expecting Jay to go over. Okay. I mean, it could have been Mark's time to shine, but I don't know. I feel like Jay is the one that's always getting pushed over Mark.
00:28:04
Speaker
Right, I guess that, and to me this was, does this really count as a Ring of Honor? Like, they could have done anything with this man who doesn't really count as an official Ring of Honor show, does it? That was a weird thing about the show start to finish. It never, because I mean, if this was truly a Ring of Honor show, we watched Chris Jericho's Ring of Honor debut.
00:28:25
Speaker
Absolutely. And I was thinking of that during the main event because they had I mean, it was it was a Ring of Honor referee. It was a Ring of Honor announcement announced team. They got to see Jericho yell at Todd for the first time. Yeah. I mean, you and I have yelled at Todd. As far as I know, Jericho's never yelled at Todd. I bet it felt good. It feels good to everybody. Did Jericho yell at Don Callis? That's what I want to know. Was Callis on the boat?
00:28:53
Speaker
I think he was. I think he did commentary. Oh, he was commentary on the main event, but he wasn't throughout the tournament. Because he was sitting there dressed as a captain. Yeah, he was. A lot of people were at different times. But watch that Briscoe match. Like we said, that was the highlighted tournament. And then the finals of the tournament ended up being between Flip Gordon and Jay Briscoe.
00:29:18
Speaker
This match had a, I mean, there were some similarities to this in the Briscoe match and that it like, the difference was is that there was a lot of kick in the shit out of each other in the match between Flip Gordon and Jay Briscoe, but the vibe was that Flip Gordon was a, it was a, a trout trying to fight a shark.
00:29:34
Speaker
and at least you felt like Mark Briscoe had a good chance against his own brother because, what, he's a swamp monster is what you called him? I didn't call it. Don't you put any words in my mouth. That was the guy behind me at Supercard last year. Well, the reference came from you, at least. The story did. I just don't want any Briscoe's thinking I've got anything wrong with a Briscoe.
00:29:55
Speaker
You've talked shit about so many other wrestlers, why are you suddenly afraid of the Briscoes? Because after this weekend, you know, it became real to me that I can run into these people sometimes. Finally dawned on you, you might be in danger. I was going to say, so we at all in got to see Flip Gordon face Jay Lethal for the Ring of Honor Championship and we're set to get that again. How are you feeling about that? Might not even be Jay Lethal because they kept saying it's at an undisclosed date.
00:30:25
Speaker
I guess that's true. So I mean, I've seen I was at a Ring of Honor show and watched Cheeseburger win a shot at the TV title. And then when I watched that episode back, they cut the match and he never got that shot. But this one's a little bit harder to cut, right? Because you charged me like you charged us money to watch this one. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess technically at all in he didn't fight Jay Lethal. He fought Black Machismo, right?
00:30:49
Speaker
That's true, he has not yet lost to just Jay Lethal. It does get me thinking though, when I see guys like, when it came down to, it was either gonna be Jay Briscoe or Flip Gordon going up against Jay Lethal at an undisclosed time, I think that also said something about where, I just don't know where Ring of Honor is headed.
00:31:13
Speaker
I mean, isn't Jay Lethal versus Jay Briscoe? I mean, that's not what got booked, but wouldn't Jay Lethal versus Jay Briscoe have been a match for Ring of Honor like five years ago? That's what I'm saying. It seems like they don't, the main talent that they're running with right now, we have no idea where they're headed. And I feel like the second they're gone, Ring of Honor has to start over.
00:31:38
Speaker
I mean, maybe they're building people now, but it felt like punishment was the guy that was getting built, and he's gone. If you take the Bullet Club out, that's something. Even if they were able to hang on to Hangman Page, I can see him headlining down the road. Do you think Jeff Cobb could be that guy? I think Cobb could be. I think Cobb was a huge git for them. I see him being a monster heel in the main event picture at some point.
00:32:02
Speaker
Yeah. But we need more of those signings, and it seems like so many of the people they need are an impact. Yeah. Like if
New Japan Pro Wrestling Analysis
00:32:11
Speaker
Brian Cage were there, that would be awesome. But he's also, I don't know. The future of ROH has me confused right now. I'm just, I don't know where that's going to go. You told me a few weeks ago that Ring of Honor has kind of lost your interest a little bit. That's not totally, but it's been the one you've had a harder time keeping up with lately.
00:32:31
Speaker
Yeah, and that doesn't say anything about the quality of the matches they're putting on. It's just my personal interest in the talent that they currently have in the characters they're working with. I mean, one of the best matches I saw this year was a TV taping for Ring of Honor. It was a 30-minute Iron Man match between John Gresham and Jay Lethal.
00:32:49
Speaker
Yeah, it was awesome. I mean, one of the best things I've seen this year, but I just I don't see. I don't see. You're asking where are they going? Exactly. That's your big question. Where is this all headed? I feel like if somebody right now were to just get into Ring of Honor, the future is so uncertain for them that it would be hard to tell somebody to watch it right now.
00:33:11
Speaker
Okay, maybe some people agree with you, maybe some people disagree. If you have comments on that thought from Gartet, get at him on Twitter, at Gartet, or tweet at us, at WrestleHangout on Twitter. Main event of this whole cruise, the thing that they were really building around, Bullet Club, Alpha Club.
00:33:29
Speaker
This was fun. There were moments in this match that really reminded me of that show, the Ring of Honor show we went to back in May, where it was LIJ against the Bullet Club, where at the start of it, it didn't really seem like it was going to be a hard-hitting match. It seemed like everyone was just getting their stuff in and it was a
00:33:49
Speaker
a moment for the fans to kind of cheer all the people they were excited there to see like they weren't really doing anything dangerous there weren't anything there wasn't anything that i would consider high flying or big spots and it picked up towards the end there but uh what was your kind of reception or your response to this match
00:34:07
Speaker
I actually had similar feelings. I was kind of thinking of that too where at the beginning I was like, okay, they're all getting their stuff in and that's not, I don't have a problem with that because I, you know, I would have been more upset if Jericho had gone and gotten hurt on the Jericho cruise and then couldn't defend the IC title over at New Japan. There's nothing wrong with having a match that's just there to be fun.
00:34:29
Speaker
No, I have no problem with that. And we've seen the Young Bucks do that many times now, where they'll end a Ring of Honor show with, it's not necessarily the craziest match they've ever had, but it's entertaining. And I was entertained beginning to end on this. I think Jericho had a great time getting to dress as an 80s hair metal guy with the Young Bucks. Absolutely. And what's funny is it reminded me a lot of young Jericho seeing him dress in like the similar wardrobe that they have.
00:34:59
Speaker
It's just, it's so weird how he has followed us our entire wrestling fandom, it seems. Yeah. Yeah. Chris Jericho has been around since I started being a fan of pro wrestling back in the mid to late nineties. Seems like Jericho is doing that, uh, the Gretzky thing, you know, he's not going to where the puck was. He's going to where it's headed.
00:35:21
Speaker
He's like a fine wine. He does seem to get better with age too. I mean, maybe some people disagree with that, but man, his last few years in pro wrestling have been really, really good. It's true. I mean, I think he was always going to be considered a legend, but I think there's various levels of how big of a legend you can be. And I think he has raised his stocks so much that he is, I mean, at this point, he's kind of at a stone cold level.
00:35:52
Speaker
I think in the next month, we should do an episode that's just about Chris Jericho's career. I really, really do that. If we were gonna talk about a guy for a whole episode, we did an episode about CM Punk, maybe Jericho should be our next one. That's not bad, start at his endies, get to his stuff in Japan, the cruiser waits, some of the stuff in Mexico, WCW, just work your way up. Yeah, I'm in, I'm in, that's good.
00:36:18
Speaker
Okay, so I don't know if you saw, I posted on our social media on our Twitter the other day, posted four images of Jericho to kind of show the cycle of his career. I wish I could have had space for maybe two or three more because there are some other phases of Jericho.
00:36:33
Speaker
that I didn't get to cover. But I asked people, no, pick your Jericho. Do you like him from his late WCW early WWF days? Do you like him with the light up jacket? Do you like him as scarf wear enlisted Jericho? Or do you like New Japan Jericho? And we got some responses from people. A lot of people have, I don't know, the vote was pretty split. What got the most? I think the list of Jericho is a lot of people's favorite Jericho.
00:37:00
Speaker
and I'm kind of right there with them. I mean, I've been going back and watching some of these old WCW paper views, the Jericho matches I'm seeing, I kind of have started to remember how much I actually enjoyed Jericho as a kid.
00:37:13
Speaker
Yeah. But there were so many other big guys that he kind of, to me, was one that got lost in the shuffle a little bit. One of the reasons why he left. And one of the main things, like, of the last few years, I know we've mentioned this several times, but when he was sitting at the top of that ladder cross-legged before that Money in the Bank match, he completely transformed into a character that I just adored.
00:37:39
Speaker
And it was just the way he was sitting, sitting there with the scarf. Like, because up until that point, because I know when I went to Mania 32 and he was fighting Styles, I wasn't that excited for that match. Yeah, that was kind of a transitional Jericho where he didn't really have a personality or, you know, a personality other than just being Chris Jericho.
00:38:01
Speaker
So would you, I don't know. We'll save some of the Jericho talk for our Jericho episode, which we are now scheduled to do. It's been signed. It's a done deal. And Derek went through the table. Kurt Angle looked shocked that I put you through it too. As far as the match goes, it was fun. Nope. It doesn't look like anybody got hurt. What's the story with Jericho's eye? Did I miss something? It looked like you just had a black eye, right?
00:38:31
Speaker
Right. Well, how did he get it? I don't know. Jericho parties, man. He's on a fucking cruise ship that he's the captain of. He's a rock star. He loves drinking a lot.
00:38:42
Speaker
That's another part of Jericho that I quietly really like. I've heard some stories. I don't hear alcoholic negative drinking stories about Jericho. I just hear that he's quietly a guy who loves some drink. Oh, I mean, if we're going through every type of Jericho, my 100% favorite Jericho is Fazion Tour Instagram Jericho.
00:39:08
Speaker
that's where he's got a beer belly well not just the beer belly like i love getting to see like i'm looking at the stories and now i just see jericho wasted smoking a cigarette hanging out with his buddies and i'm like this is the guy i want to party with i want to this is why you need to be going to these fuzzy shows and paying 30 bucks to meet him because maybe you're going to smoke a sig with jericho and drink a bottle of vodka
00:39:31
Speaker
How much would you pay out of pocket right now to go drink with Jericho, smoke a cig with Jericho, get really wasted with him and get a picture where you're like getting a picture with him, but you have his scarf on in the picture. What is the dollar amount that I would have?
00:39:51
Speaker
Like, I'm assuming it's significant, because it would be for me, because that's one hell of an experience. Well, right now, if somebody just pitched it to me, and they're like, this is a once in a lifetime offer, and they slide it to me, I'm like, this says it's $500. And they're like, we'll read what's included. And then he's like, he's like, he'll include you in the Instagram story of him smoking a cigarette. Oh, well.
00:40:13
Speaker
Okay. That would do great things for our podcast. Yeah, I think it would be a thing where I would get sticker shock on that, but think, eh, I can put it on a credit card. Yeah. Yeah, so I guess the Jericho cruise was a success. I mean, I...
00:40:31
Speaker
I will say it was definitely odd. It felt WCW-ish in the sense that it was weird watching a wrestling match and then letting your gaze kind of slide upwards towards the top of your screen, whatever you're watching it on, and see water rushing by, at least during like the daytime matches, like in the background.
00:40:51
Speaker
Oh, like you said, we'd had those WCW matches with a pool, so you're looking at the water at the bottom. I've never seen one where water's at the skyline. That's a... Nope. That was an interesting experience. Maybe there'll be another one. Maybe there'll never be another one, but if there's another one... It kind of seems like there probably will be. Maybe it's a biannual thing. Maybe every other year. If I can ride a boat with Nido, now there...
00:41:20
Speaker
Uh, I guess now that you bring up Nino, that's a damn good transition. There was a new Japan pay-per-view over the weekend that you forgot to wake up for. And I somehow made it the entire day without one spoiler. So at the very end of the day, oh fuck, a new Japan pay-per-view, turn it on, get to watch the whole thing in peace.
00:41:41
Speaker
What did you think? This was a New Japan Pro Wrestling power struggle. I watched a few matches from this show. Good stuff. I think you watched more of the show than I did, but... I don't know. To me, the entire match of the show, the one that actually delivered the most, was Naito versus Zack Sabre Jr.
00:42:01
Speaker
That was my favorite one of the show as well. To me that topped the main event. Well I mean the main event was an attraction right? For sure and for me at this point Naito is easily one of my favorite wrestlers right now. Zack Sabre Jr. I want to watch wrestle anyone.
00:42:17
Speaker
because it's going to be he does so many different styles throughout I mean obviously you're getting the pretzel shit but he can hit so hard and get hit so hard yeah and it just he always makes things interesting you never know what how what the outcome is gonna be I mean we've seen him didn't we see him beat Okada or no
00:42:39
Speaker
I think we just saw a good match of him in Okada, because he had the title shot, but we've seen him beat Naito. And he's been a real cocky asshole about that. No, I think if somebody said to me that their favorite pro wrestler was Zack Sabre Jr., I would totally understand it. Oh, I get it. I love his punt kick. I love so much about him. And him being a cocky Englishman in Japan, there is something very unique about that character.
00:43:05
Speaker
Yeah, I mean he's a heavy striker. We've talked about how many times he can lock you in a million different submissions. He has this teardown match with Naito. Didn't he kick out of a Destino in this match?
00:43:18
Speaker
Yeah, or he reversed it while it was happening, I think. I do think he kicked out of it this time. You probably didn't watch the match before it. Did you watch Ishii versus Suzuki? I didn't catch this one. You can cover this one.
00:43:35
Speaker
I mean, what is there to tell you? I mean, it's more of Ishii versus Suzuki. I know we talked about at one point, is there anything in wrestling that you don't, like any chance that you wish would go away? And I think I talked about how I don't always love the fight forever chant because it doesn't always apply. Like sometimes I'm watching a good match and here fight forever and I'm like, no, no, not this one. I mean, let's,
00:44:01
Speaker
let's pick a better one for a fight forever. I could watch these two motherfuckers fight forever, and I hope they do. If they had like a three-hour match, would you stay for that? Beginning to end. And I've talked about how much I love Suzuki. He's just such a weird-looking man with the haircut and the ears and just the overall sour demeanor. And I know our buddy John is...
00:44:31
Speaker
He always refers to Suzuki as his murder grandpa.
00:44:38
Speaker
But this was for the British Rev Pro title. They, once again, I mean just, no one hits each other as hard as these two guys. If you told me, like you know when you say like friends hit each other the hardest, I believe these two guys hate each other and want each other to die. And they just keep getting booked against each other. And I cannot get enough of it. Every time they're on the card, I wanna see them fight. What did you think of the Golden Lovers match?
00:45:08
Speaker
Let's see, who were they up against? I'm looking through them. It was Ibushi and Omega against David Finley and Hiroshi Tanahashi. This was another match that I happened to catch. I wanted to make sure I snuck this one in. Oh, my first thought when I saw the lineup for this match is, ooh, who's David Finley eating that pen from?
00:45:28
Speaker
There's a few guys on the New Japan card that when I see them, it's just, I don't know when or if they're gonna get built up enough to be at the same level as some of these guys. Like David Finley's great.
Southern Underground Pro Recap
00:45:45
Speaker
There's just so many guys on this that, I mean, even looking back at other ones, there's a couple guys I just, once again, I just never got. Like, I never got Makabe. I don't get it. I don't get what the appeal is. Please tell me. If you have a match that you're like, this is the one that'll get you over with him, like, show me. Another one, Godo. I just, you know, doesn't do it for me.
00:46:11
Speaker
I came away from this match. Obviously, one of the things they're trying to build here is the rivalry between Kenny Omega and Ta-Nehisi. Very excited about that. Right. Obviously, everyone is. Something occurred to me in the middle of this match that I hadn't really been thinking about for a while. The whole point of putting the Golden Lovers back together, because this is pro wrestling, is to tear them apart at some point, right?
00:46:39
Speaker
I mean, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is gonna get ugly at some point between those two. When do you think that's gonna happen? True love never dies. Garrett, it died before. It's not died. It's not died. It's not died. It's not died.
00:47:07
Speaker
What do you want me to say? Love lasts forever, Derek, and I believe in love. For real. For real. When is Koda Ibushi going to stab Kenny Omega in the back? Are you asking me, at Wrestle Kingdom, after Kenny Omega defeats Tanahashi, is Koda Ibushi going to hug him and then kick his head off?
00:47:34
Speaker
I wasn't fishing for a particular answer at all. I wasn't asking you a fantasy book, asshole. I was saying, when do you think they're going to break up? No, that was exactly... I mean, I was asking you to fantasy book for sure, but I didn't have a specific answer in mind. That sounds great to me. If it happens, I'm going to send everybody apologies. I'd buy that for a dollar. No, that sounds great to me. I think...
00:48:00
Speaker
There's been some, I mean, maybe I'm reading into this, maybe they're not trying to send me the signal, but that match between Ibushi, Cody, and Kenny, there's vibes I'm getting.
00:48:14
Speaker
that there's gonna be some resentment that comes from Ibushi eventually. Do you think that Ibushi's like a jealous girlfriend on the side where he's like, okay man, what's going on here? You brought me into this tag team. I thought maybe we're gonna make a run for some belts. You didn't do that. You're the champ now. You're hanging out with your buddies. You didn't invite me into this club that you guys are a part of.
00:48:35
Speaker
So you bring me into a lesser club, but now you guys have decided you're called the elite, you're not in the bullet club, and I'm in the golden elite, so I'm in the side version of this other club? Am I in or am I out? Fuck you, I'm kicking your head off. The idea that you haven't thought about this has absurd to me. You've thought about it so much since the beginning, and I'm just like, hey man,
00:48:57
Speaker
They're lovers. They're together. This is part of the package. This is just the way it is. Well, a good wrestling angle sucks you in so that you forget about the fact that you're watching pro wrestling and certain things are gonna take place.
00:49:12
Speaker
I ask myself, as you often do when somebody becomes a champion and it's a big deal, who are they gonna drop it to? What are gonna be the right circumstances? And we don't have to sit here and fantasy book, you know, every scenario. But Abushi's lingering back there. And eventually, because it's his pro wrestling, he's not gonna like just being Kenny's second fiddle.
00:49:37
Speaker
especially if rumors are true and the Bullet Club is going to become a thing of the way we perceive it now it's going to be a thing of the past. Which they announced on the cruise. Yeah. They said it's done. Like they said like there hasn't been that part of a storyline but they said that they are now the elite. Well I'm giving the benefit of that that it still has to play out on camera but
00:50:02
Speaker
Eventually, this is going to have to be visited. And the question is, when it does get visited, when we do get Ibushi versus Kenny Omega, is Ibushi going to cost Omega the title or is Omega going to keep the title in a situation like you just described? And then after the match, Ibushi is going to turn on him because he wants his shot one on one. I think there's going to be a conversation behind the scenes about t-shirt sales.
00:50:28
Speaker
It's not going to go the way that Ibushi would have liked it to play out. The best way it could play out is seeing Matt and Nick Jackson in the back like, oh my god, even though the Bullet Club broke up, our merchandise sales are still fantastic. Lucky us. And then they walk off. And Kenny's like, what are the Elite shirts selling like? And it's like, oh my god, they sold this many. And Ibushi's like, what about the Golden Elite? And they're like, oh, sold a couple.
00:50:52
Speaker
And then Kenny's just like, I joined this thing for the merch sales. And you guys have done nothing but disappoint. Easily because my movie career did not take off the way I thought it was going to after Kaiju Mano. He is a pretty looking man though. He is very pretty. I mean, he looks like, uh, like if you made me a Japanese Ken doll. That's a bushy. It would be Kodo bushy.
00:51:17
Speaker
Well, just something to think about as we go forward in the coming months, because to me, since there isn't a dominion to look forward to, since there isn't an all in, to me, this is that lingering thing. I mean, obviously, Wrestle Kingdom is probably going to be amazing, but I'm still sitting there waiting for Ibushi versus Omega for that IWGP championship.
00:51:36
Speaker
and the turning point. So just something that crossed my mind while I was watching the finish to this match because Ibushi did get the win, Golden Lovers prevail, and we continue to march on towards Wrestle Kingdom between Tana Hashi and Kenny Omega. What else did you want to talk about from this card? Because obviously we'll get to the main event here in a little bit.
00:51:53
Speaker
I didn't want to just bring this up because there was a six-man tag. It was Hanma, Maccabee, and Koshida versus Tama Tonga, Tonga Loa, and new Bullet Club member Robbie Eagles, which I saw Robbie Eagles at PWG a couple times. I think he was at Bola this year. I have some friends that are way into Robbie Eagles. I need to see a little more before I'm quite there. But what that got me wondering is,
00:52:22
Speaker
If these guys are officially out of the Bullet Club, do you think the Bullet Club can become as big as it was without them? No. You think that's forever just going to be a thing that's like, oh, this was huge in the 2010s.
00:52:39
Speaker
Here's what I will say because I went to Dia De Los Luchadores with Metal Dave and this briefly came up and Dave if you're listening Hi Dave. Love you. Good seeing you This briefly came up where we were talking about how excited he was to see Bullet Club going back to the one it originally was where they were about creating chaos Those were his words
00:53:01
Speaker
In my mind, I thought, yeah, but the reason Bullet Club exploded was because of these particular set of guys. They became a worldwide phenomenon and the T-shirt sales were ridiculous because of this particular set of guys. Bullet Club was the main stage logo at all in the biggest independent wrestling show of all time. It wasn't because of the firing squad. They were not there.
00:53:30
Speaker
So I don't understand how it could ever get that big again without Kenny, without Cody, without the Bucks. And that's not a knock on Tomatanga or Tongoloa. Because I think right now, Tomatanga is really, really killing it.
00:53:47
Speaker
But do you think that there could be somebody that they bring in with him? If Tomatanga had another, like, big exciting name join him, do you think they could bring it back to where people... Because at this point, I don't... Like, I love these guys, but I don't think people want the shirts of, like... I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, because they are shitty heels. What's that? What if it's a bougie?
00:54:15
Speaker
That was the sound of me ejaculating. I take it you liked that idea? If he was just like, oh my god, that's perfect. Because he's like, you would never give me this shirt. And this guy gave it to me. We're fucking now. And Tomatanga's like, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what? I think it would make a ton of sense at least. I mean, they could be in Coda's ear asking him, why are you carrying bags for Kenny? Derek, this is what's going to happen.
00:54:46
Speaker
I mean, I don't know if Ibushi's the big name splash that you were referring to. It makes sense from a storyline turn angle, I guess. Can you picture him being mean though? I feel like in the background of every promo they do, he just looks lost. Maybe, maybe if it's a complete character overhaul, it works, which is what he would have to go through to turn on Kenny. Like he dyes his hair black and just... Yeah, he turns into like a Phantom of the Opera type character.
00:55:16
Speaker
I'm, I'm into that now. You got, but, uh, yeah. Fuck. All right. I've got nothing else to say. You, you, you, uh, checkmate. There you go. There.
00:55:27
Speaker
Sorry, I feel like we got distracted. We went back to fantasy booking again from this match you were talking about. But go ahead. I just want to talk about the Bullet Club because of that. At the end of this, Ishimori, who's been injured, came out. He had his crutches and ended up smashing Kushida in the back with his crutches. He's better. And now Kushida versus Ishimori at Wrestle Kingdom. What did you think of the main event? It was fine.
00:55:53
Speaker
I think that really undersells, what's that? It was a street fight. Yeah, that's kind of what Jericho, New Japan Jericho's a street fighting guy. There's a couple notable things I did mark down as notes. I really, we've talked about this in reference to one of the things I love about a particular attribute I like in a pro wrestler is somebody who's vocal during the match. That's Jericho.
00:56:20
Speaker
and him yelling at the announce team and him blowing his nose on the new Japan banner. I love that Jericho's schtick is I'm better than this place.
00:56:32
Speaker
And even Chuck Taylor was like, that's the company you have the belt for. Which we didn't mention, Chuck Taylor's on commentary this whole show, so already I'm just like, I can watch everything, because I could listen to Chuckie T. do commentary all day. But no, at that moment when he blew his nose, he looks over and just says, you see that, Kelly? You see that, you stupid bastard? That was the...
00:56:58
Speaker
And then you just hear Kelly go, yeah. I thought you can really say. I don't know why ever since all in, anything I think of Jericho yelling is immediately funnier to me now. Like it was already funny, but now it's like borderline hilarious.
00:57:17
Speaker
because of him knocking Don Callis out of his chair. Yeah, absolutely. To me, everything that he yells, I view it as borderline intimidating to somebody. So now if you had to pick your favorite Jericho, it's a very, very specific Jericho from a six second block.
00:57:38
Speaker
No, I just think we had talked you don't know how long Jericho is gonna hold this intercontinental title with him being essentially a part-timer Did you ever feel like evil was actually a threat?
00:57:51
Speaker
If it hadn't been so close to Wrestle Kingdom, I maybe would have. You know, knowing that Wrestle Kingdom's coming up, I kinda had it in my head. If Jericho's gonna drop this, he's gonna drop it at Wrestle Kingdom, just to give Jericho another big match there, because he's obviously a huge draw.
00:58:11
Speaker
Yeah. As far as when you're watching this, how do you think the Japanese crowd is taking him? Are they super excited to see Jericho there in your mind? It felt like they were. I heard Y2J chants. Yeah, do you think that there's other WWE wrestlers that could see what Jericho's got going on and think, man, I would be a pay cut, but I would be getting paid more per match. Maybe I should do that. As in, is somebody willing to take on that workload for that kind of recognition?
00:58:41
Speaker
Yeah, somebody that is like the size of a Jericho, like somebody that's in the WWE or wherever. The thing about Jericho is he's such, and obviously there's another thing we can cover. There's nobody like him. There's nobody who has the combination of the resume, the wrestling skill, the personality. He's an entrepreneur.
00:59:08
Speaker
He just read down his thing. He's like he's a three-time best New York Times best-selling author He has a hit single on the radio right now. He's got a killer Abba cover He's got his own podcast. He's got a brand of hot sauce coming out next month. I think he's got three or four sodas in the works He has a Nintendo DS game that nobody knows about it's all about Japanese politics
00:59:32
Speaker
But as far as, it's so hard to know who would be able to jump over to New Japan and be a star overnight, other than outrageous names like John Cena. I mean, we've talked about how fun that crossover would be, but we kind of both know that's never gonna happen. Well, do you think there could be anyone whose contract is coming up? I mean, fuck, like Finn Balor. Do you think Finn Balor would leave and come back? Yeah, but isn't that different?
01:00:03
Speaker
Isn't that just a guy returning to a company where he gained his star status from? Yeah, I guess like Jericho's returning to a place he's been, but he wasn't who he is now. Finn Balor wouldn't be losing anything. Like, you know, he'd just kind of be in the same spot.
01:00:20
Speaker
The thing that makes Jericho so unique in New Japan is he has this indignant attitude that, don't you know me, I'm from the WWE. He doesn't come right out and say that, but his attitude is, I'm here to pluck your titles away from you and beat your stars because I'm Chris Jericho.
01:00:38
Speaker
Sorry, that just made me think of on the Jericho cruise when they were entering the ring and the whole crowd was chanting, Vince can't touch this. And Jericho looked at the camera and kind of shrugged and gave like a bashful look and kind of mouths, yeah, he can't. Didn't you give him a little wink too? He did, yeah. With his black eye. I think overall, as far as just this match goes, of the three he's had there, this is probably my least favorite, but that's not saying it was bad.
01:01:08
Speaker
Yeah, it was still fun. He does DDT him onto a table they do Evil give essentially gives him a rock bottom through a table from the the ring apron to the outside Did you see Jericho's pictures of his body after that? I did see how fucked up he got
01:01:25
Speaker
Oh man, he just, the second, he hit that table at a weird angle, he hit the corner of it, and you just saw- Kinda hit it standing up, didn't he? Yeah, his feet were still on the ground. Yeah, and you just saw like a welt go down his back, but Jericho posted one on Instagram with his pants down, and just like his hip was black and blue.
01:01:45
Speaker
and you know that he's gonna go have some drinks and a smoke and he'll be okay. Him and Evil were back there just chained smoking cigarettes. Evil in his death robe with his cool fucking pentagram light up deal. Yeah, I wanted to talk about that. Where the fuck did he get that from?
01:02:02
Speaker
The second he came out I was like, what's he got here? Oh fuck! When did evil become my favorite wrestler? It's a pentagram hologram shield. And he gets to hold it out like he's just projecting it from his hand. That's badass.
01:02:16
Speaker
Mustafa Ali can't touch that shit. Or DJZ. So Jericho gets evil to tap from the walls of Jericho. And then he puts him back on the walls of Jericho, won't let it go. And Naito makes the save. And New Japan is advertising Naito versus Jericho, the rematch. And Jericho is being a snarky bastard on social media saying, yeah, you can book that match, but I didn't agree to it. It's not happening. It doesn't mean I have to show up.
01:02:48
Speaker
He's basically doing the overt Brock Lesnar, where he's like, isn't it funny how I could just not show up with this? Yes, yes it is. I feel like that's what it's a commentary on, but whatever. Yeah, I'm enjoying, like I said, it was a good main event. At this point, Jericho is a spectacle event. You're going to get not your typical New Japan match out of something he's in.
01:03:11
Speaker
Evil is a good, big wrestler there for him to work with right now, so I think it accomplished what it needed to, it gets us back to him in Nido, gets me another match I'm looking forward to at Wrestle Kingdom. I wish you were going again this year. I wish we were going. Yeah, Japan's so far away. It's very far. I would, oh man, just when I, every match I'm seeing announced, I'm just like, I'm gonna watch that really early in the morning on my couch.
01:03:38
Speaker
You know what isn't far away from you, Garrett? Basement East. Basement East, very close. Southern Underground Pro. Goddamn. These guys are great.
WWE Commentary & Future Coverage
01:03:50
Speaker
And they let us sponsor a match. So I can't thank them enough for that. These shows, so much fun. They're on Powerbomb TV now. You need to hop on Powerbomb TV and watch some of these things. Really impressive shit. This time, they did do a couple changes.
01:04:08
Speaker
They had the ring positioned differently, so I couldn't stand in my normal spot. They put commentary where I normally stand, and I felt like it made it a little harder to see. I'm sorry, Garrett. It's OK. I mean, I think they said there were going to be some changes. Because everybody's standing, so I would say, can we get some seats in here? But then it would take away from the punk rock vibe of the thing, and I don't want to lose that. Your tone changed halfway through that story.
01:04:38
Speaker
If I had a neck beard about one thing, it was like, I couldn't stand on the normal spot. But before... I'm never going back because something slightly changed about this thing that I go to. So before I went, I didn't wear my hat this time and I did shave my beard off. I didn't think about it this way, but was that a subconscious thing of me trying to avoid Craig Mitchell? Craig.
01:05:04
Speaker
You're probably gonna listen to this at some point. If you get time. I think Garrett was hiding from you a little bit. It felt like I was hiding. Like, I even had a couple people say, aren't you gonna stand closer? And when I saw him coming out, I saw him scanning the crowd like a goddamn Terminator. And all I could think is, I'm gonna get slapped in the chest because of Derek. It didn't help, yeah. I've been encouraging him to chop the shit out of you. Would you say that's something I've earned from him? I'd say it's something you've earned from a lot of people, Garrett.
01:05:41
Speaker
Uh, Bob Hawley, I hope you're listening. Listen, there were some things I was, I'm so sad I didn't get to be there with you for this. Little did I realize that you were going to cut off your facial hair and not wear your hat advertising the podcast, but I, I, from what I understand, you said some people came up to you and we're talking to you about our show. Oh, so every Southern Underground pro show I've been to the last, uh, the last few here,
01:06:04
Speaker
I always hear people say Garrett and I turn and I look and I think I'm hearing stuff so I'm outside at intermission and I heard somebody say Garrett in a group of people and I walked over to the group and I said is somebody here is named Garrett and he said I'm Garrett and I said I'm Garrett and then he said are you Garrett from predetermined.
01:06:23
Speaker
Turned out, we had a listener at Southern Underground Pro with the same goddamn name. Well, nice. Did you bond over that? Oh, yeah, we bonded over two R's and two T's. We bonded over our love of pro wrestling. So Garrett, thanks for listening, bud. Met him and his wife, Kelly. Looking forward to seeing him at the next one.
01:06:43
Speaker
So, we sponsored the match with Craig Mitchell, Tripp Cassidy, and who's the top five? Danhausen. Danhausen. Craig Mitchell comes out with a win. So, this match was a lot of fun. It's a triple threat between those guys. Craig Mitchell's been having some issues with knives at Southern Underground Pro, where, you know, somebody comes in with a knife, it scares him and he loses.
01:07:07
Speaker
This time, while the three of them are in the ring, there's been this wrestler named Stab. We don't really know anything about Stab, other than he dresses like, you know, fucking the Scream character. So I think Billy, what Billy Loomis is under there, waiting to kill Craig Mitchell, he's standing on the stage just pointing a knife, Danhausen and Tripp Cassidy fighting. Speaking of roll-ups, Craig Mitchell won with a roll-up.
01:07:33
Speaker
And then he called out. A win's a win. Craig would agree. Exactly. Oh, he did not receive a good reception there. The second he walked through, whole room chanting, fuck you, Craig. So you were probably pretty excited about that, weren't you? Well, and they did start the match by announcing to please hashtag stop the Craig hate.
01:07:58
Speaker
I agree. It's unacceptable. But if you're introduced as the Midwest bully, you come out with the attitude that he has, we're not gonna cheer for you, man. You gotta get something else. Maybe make a balloon animal. I don't know. He has a very rational fear of knives. I don't understand why this is controversial to anybody. But he must not be too afraid of knives, because next Southern Underground Pro Show, he has called out Stab the Wrestler.
01:08:24
Speaker
So we're gonna, that's gonna be January 20th. So we're gonna, not only, we're gonna see Stab wrestle, we might find out who it is, he might kill Craig Mitchell. Craig, I really don't want your epitaph on your tombstone to say 2019, so. Crane, I'll work with you, we'll talk things through, he'll get through this. Garrett, what happened with Marco Stunt? I have not seen a spoiler from this show. How'd the main event go?
01:08:52
Speaker
So, Marco Stunt versus Brett Eisen. I thought, Marco's gonna get out of this. He finds a way. But, you know, he just got the title. He's our guy. He's the guy. Marco Stunt gets his fucking ass beat by Brett Eisen. But the whole match, the fun thing, it looked like a monkey climbing a tree. You just got to watch Marco Stunt just climbing all over this guy.
01:09:16
Speaker
Marco gives a hell of a code breaker. Brett Ison, one of the scariest men I've ever seen in my whole life, I don't think, like, you know what, if we could get Brett Ison on the show and just have him stare him in the eyes while he eats a marshmallow peep, I think that would be the most gentle thing he's ever done in his whole life. So Brett Ison kills Marco Stunt, beats him, new champ. Were you surprised by that?
01:09:44
Speaker
I was just absolutely surprised. I thought Marco Stump was gonna hold that until I was dead. Turns out, one show title run, lost it, Brett Ison, he looks dead right in the camera and says he's calling out the king. So my first thought is, the fuck's Jerry Law gonna do here?
01:10:03
Speaker
But Derek, he didn't mean the King Jerry Lawler. He meant Jimmy King? He meant the King Nick fucking Gage. Oh my God. Nick Gage versus Brett Ison for the Bonestorm title January 20th at Basement East. Two men, if I, oh my God. What do you think the cutest thing either of them have ever done is?
01:10:30
Speaker
Never anything? He probably, like, I see him being like, sorry, I bought a bouquet of flowers, but I accidentally ate it on the way home. Why did you do that? So my mouth would bleed. I'm not used to not bleeding. So obviously you're going to go to the show. I dare you to go up to Nick Gage, pat him on the back really hard and say, hey, remember when we met at the back, in the back of that Foreman Mills in Chicago? He probably won't remember. Everybody keeps telling me that he's the nicest guy.
01:11:01
Speaker
It's a setup. It is a setup. There's no way that man is the nicest guy. And when you see Brett Isohn and Nick Gage beating the shit out of each other next month, the fuck. Like this is...
01:11:15
Speaker
But I do want to give a couple other shout outs to some different matches that were on here. Jake Parnell versus, which is JP Warhorse. You know, we actually were supposed to sponsor his match with MJF, didn't end up happening a while back. And he fought Daniel Maccabee, had never seen this guy before. These two put on a killer fucking match. This one was probably my favorite match of the night. Really hard hitting stuff. A lot of really cool spots. We posted one on Twitter.
01:11:44
Speaker
of Jake Parnell double stomping Maccabee's head off the stage onto the floor. Nasty stuff. O'Shea Edwards versus Gary J was great. O'Shea Edwards, I hear, is working out at the Ring of Honor Dojo. So maybe we're going to be seeing him. I know a couple of our friends, big fans of that guy. What do we have? We had Sad Kompf that took on the Carnies.
01:12:07
Speaker
Those are just two fun groups to watch if the carneys come to your area go check out those guys a lot of fun Cabana, man Dan was great And we got to see alley cat and mr. Brickster maybe the most overtagged team in the history I didn't think it could get more over than alley cat and Marco stunt turns out you throw mr. Brickster in people love them
01:12:32
Speaker
Then they took on Teddy King and J.V. Newman, two of the shittiest heels. Their gimmick is their junior varsity. And it's weird to watch these and be like, I don't like them, because they're jocks. Because in this ring, any ring, those are jocks. They're just theater kids who also liked sports. It's a unique blend, man. But these two guys, when these guys come out, I just want to see him get his fucking head kicked in.
01:13:01
Speaker
If I had to put Craig Mitchell and Teddy King in a match together, I hope Craig kills Teddy. Are you disappointed that you have to wait a couple months for the next Southern Underground Pro Show? I am, but here is the thing. This show takes place the day after my mom's birthday.
01:13:18
Speaker
And I said to my mom, there's no way I'm missing this. Nick Gage is coming to the basement east. You've already said this for real? I said, the only way that we're going to be able to do something on your birthday is, you know, maybe you come down here and then we do something in Nashville. And she says, well, maybe I should come to the show. My mom has never been to a pro wrestling show.
01:13:41
Speaker
She's a nice God-fearing lady, and she said she actually would like to attend this. Is a Nick Gage match the best place to start my mother with pro wrestling? Yes.
01:13:57
Speaker
Uh, that obviously means take my mom to see Nick Gage get her on this podcast to be just absolutely mortified and uncomfortable and probably just be very quiet because she doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings, I bet.
01:14:11
Speaker
Good luck with that. Either way, Southern Underground Pro doing the big work over there. Great fucking shows. Check out their shit on Powerbomb TV. Next show, January 20th. You do not want to miss Nick Gage. You do not want to miss Craig Mitchell taking on STAB, which maybe we're going to sponsor that and we can get in with STAB on this one. Hey, Garrett. Yeah, Derek? Should we mention that WWE is in timeout?
01:14:42
Speaker
I mean, you know, we're now we're 15 and we just as well You may have noticed we didn't talk about a certain show Yeah, and we're not going to You know wanted to remind our listeners that the the stance by predetermined a pro wrestling hangout is that WWE is currently in timeout And that's why I don't want to tell you I'm never watching again because we all know that's bullshit. That's an outrageous claim to make I
01:15:05
Speaker
And I love a lot of the talent they have there. I love the women. A lot of my favorite wrestlers are over there. I'm not saying these. Yeah, you know. It would be outrageous to say, nope, I'm done forever. There's never going to be anything that draws me back in. We know that within a few months, maybe even shorter than that, there will be something that draws us back in. But I do get the ability to say that for the next couple of months, they're not getting my 999.
01:15:29
Speaker
Basically, I'm like, you know what? You're in timeout until the rumble. Yeah, that's kind of how I feel. You're in timeout. You know, that doesn't mean I'm not going to watch NXT. I can catch that on Hulu. I'm going to be a little sad that I won't be able to catch the UK NXT stuff. You know, maybe I'll maybe I'll do some of this illegally. At least for the moment, as far as my ninety nine, my nine dollars and ninety nine cents is concerned, Vince can't touch this.
01:15:57
Speaker
Derek's giving two middle fingers to the sky. Is Vince God? What? Somebody's like, yes. Yeah, no, that's why we're not talking about it. That's why we had other things to talk about this week. Garrett, we did it at the top of the show. Let's do it again.
01:16:18
Speaker
How can they get in touch with us? What can they do for us? What can our fine listeners do to contribute to the growing phenomenon that is predetermined at pro wrestling hangout?
Final Thoughts & Listener Call to Action
01:16:27
Speaker
Hey, ladies, gentlemen, we're all friends here. We love hanging out with you every week. We would love to add- Is this a safe space? This is a pro wrestling safe space.
01:16:36
Speaker
We want more people to join this hangout. You know some people that want to talk wrestling and have no one to go to? Send them our way. And then, you know how you can help them find us, though? Get on iTunes. Rate, review, subscribe. Leave that nice review. We will talk about anything pro wrestling you want us to talk about. And you know what that means? We put WWE in a fucking timeout. And if you're like, guess what, Garrett? Nice review. Talk about Crown Jewel. Fuck.
01:17:04
Speaker
There's nothing we can do. There's nothing I can do. You want me to talk about the next pay-per-view, you gotta leave me a nice review and I'll start talking WWE again. Until then, you're gonna have to wait until the Royal Rumble. But send them our way, send them to the Twitter, at WrestleHangout on Twitter, at Predetermined Podcast on Instagram, at WrestleHangout on Facebook.
01:17:24
Speaker
We're always ready to talk wrestling. Shoot messages at us. I'm at Gartet on Twitter. Derek is at Halloween helping. And also, just to throw this out there again, our buddy Anthony Knessis, he made the logo for the show. He currently has a
01:17:42
Speaker
new Halloween short. He made a Halloween fan film. This dude is one of the most talented people I know. You are definitely going to see his name on the silver screen at some point. I want to tell you where to look up his Halloween fan film, because I think, Derek, you're going to enjoy the shit out of it too. Send it my way.
01:18:00
Speaker
I will post it on the Facebook page, but let me find the name of it so you can just search it yourself. It's called He Came Home, a Halloween short film. You can find it on YouTube. If you're a fan of the Halloween series, check it out. Our opening music is made by Cowboy Josh, my buddy Josh Hendricks. Super talented guy as well. Just wanted to throw a shout out. Thank you to the other folks behind the scenes.
01:18:25
Speaker
We would not have a complete podcast if it was not for these people, so thank you guys so much. And Garrett, I think we should spice up our lives. God, if this ended with Spice Girls, we couldn't put it on iTunes. So hit our goddamn music.