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Halo: A Retrospective
277 Plays4 years ago
In this episode, Fraser (Satsunami) and his fellow co-streamer Adam discuss the weird and wonderful world of the Halo franchise. From Halo 1 - 5 and the respective spin offs of ODST and Reach, the duo discuss their experience with the franchise as well as their thoughts for the future of Halo.
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Transcript
Introduction to Chatsunami and Halo
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hey everyone, hope you're having a good Wednesday and welcome to the second episode of Chatsanami. This week we are going to be talking about probably a little indie gem that you might have heard of in the past known as Halo. Joining me today, you might recognise his awesome voice, it is the one and only Adam. Hi Adam, thank you for joining me today. Hi there, thank you very much for having me and for your wonderful compliments.
00:00:42
Speaker
Well, when the check bounces, that's all I've got, you know, just... Just compliments. You'll get by. Just pay me in compliments. That is true. Oh, I need to keep me going. I try my... What can I say? I try my best. Have you succeeded? Oh, of course.
Experiencing Halo: A Shared Adventure
00:00:58
Speaker
So yeah, today we are going to be talking about Halo, which is a series that both of us have quite a history with. Oh, definitely. Well, I think we have a kind of long-term history with it, but...
00:01:10
Speaker
of recent, we also have a very, very recent and prolific short term history now. Thanks to your channel. Well, that is true. Yeah, I was going to say, I think that was probably the second game that we streamed together on the channel, like as a co-stream. I think it was the first proper one we did, because I know we did the GTA one almost as like a, just as like as a way to try it out.
00:01:30
Speaker
some fun as well but I think Halo Halo 3 was the first proper one if I remember correctly like where we sat down yeah yeah no I think you're right it was because I was trying to think like of all the compilation videos that I've put out and I was thinking what was the like very first one and I think it was like the Halo 3
00:01:47
Speaker
It was the very first compilation video I edited together and everything. Just before we jump right into the meat of the main topic, how would you describe if someone asked you about Halo and said, what is Halo? What would you say?
00:02:06
Speaker
Damn, you put me on the spot here now. I would say that Halo is a wondrous experience that I think if you have, I think if you're into gaming and you have friends who are also into gaming, I do think that Halo, at least one of the Halo series, is a game that you should play with friends. Because I think it's just one of these, I think it's just a great experience.
00:02:28
Speaker
just to play with friends and stuff. And I think it's just a game that really is made that much better by playing with others. And I think there are still good games to play, for the most part, by yourself as well. But I definitely think it's a game for friends. That's what I would, if I had a tagline for Halo, a game for friends.
00:02:46
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it seems a lot more accessible, I have to admit, than a game like Call of Duty, or, I mean, they have it played Fortnite, but, you know, like, those kind of games where it's like, they're a lot more... I mean, you've got a competitive scene in Halo and things, but it seems as if it's, like, a lot easier to get into Halo, and then there's something like Call of Duty.
00:03:05
Speaker
I think shooting aliens as well is a less controversial issue than maybe some of the Call of Duty's or something of the matter they've had. So I do think, yeah, it's just that kind of like, there's that kind of science fiction, like, you know, kind of big, dumb science fiction. Yeah, experience and yeah, I think it's a blast.
00:03:21
Speaker
Before I go on, I was going to say I was trying to think of the first time I got into Hero, but I think that kind of brings us on to our first question about how did we first hear about Hero and seeing as I am a very nice host, I am going to let you answer that one first.
00:03:40
Speaker
I suppose actually chronologically it makes sense as well because I believe I got into the franchise before you did because I had the original Xbox. That was the first game and I probably said this, I think I said the story on maybe a couple of the streams, definitely the stream that we did of the original. The first console I ever had was an original Xbox and I kind of had heard about Halo because it was one of the big launch titles for the original Xbox.
00:04:02
Speaker
And when I got the Xbox, I got a copy of Halo with it. And yeah, it was one of the first games I played. And it was one of the first games that I really fell in love with. And it was that and the original Burnout. I never played the original Burnout. There was two of mine. It was a jam for a nine-year-old Adam. So yeah, I have a really soft spot for the original Halo. I know we'll just talk about it a bit more.
00:04:24
Speaker
and we get into it but yeah like that's that's what i really got into it from the very start and i just like absolutely loved it really really got into it and yeah it's left lasting legacy lasting impression what would you say though like what was the kind of turning point when you were playing it that you said oh yeah i love this game i'm gonna like follow the series on
00:04:44
Speaker
I think I've said this before, I really struggled on the second level, about halfway through
Transitioning and Evolving in Gameplay
00:04:50
Speaker
the level. There's a bit where you're driving the Warthog to try and get to another part of the map and you have to ramp it, but I just didn't realise you'd do that at all. I got stuck on that bit and I wasn't really enjoying the game at that point, but then thanks to my mum, she managed to point me in the right direction.
00:05:04
Speaker
got across that bit and then from that bit on I really fell in love with it to be honest and like that was where I was like I love this game you know I was so excited for Halo 2 and Halo 3 and yes so like not that couple I was into I was really just into it like yeah
00:05:18
Speaker
I wish I could say, as I've said probably in past streams and things, I've always been a fan of Halo, but I would be lying if I said there was an end at the very beginning. You know one of those popular series that you hear about and people say, oh I've got this game, I've got that game, and you've heard of it.
00:05:37
Speaker
you've seen the box art, to me it was a very box art game that I would see the pictures everywhere and people talking about it but I never like played it, I never had the chance to like none of my friends had it or anything so it wasn't until I went into, I mean hopefully this isn't going to age the podcast but I was going to say like years and years ago when I was younger like I went into
00:06:01
Speaker
It's good now but it was an HMV in one of the local shopping centres and I went in and I saw like Halo was on sale for like, it was Halo 3 sorry just to give context and it was like I want to say like £15 or something and at the time you know I was kind of like
00:06:17
Speaker
Mmm, do I want to? Do I not want to? And I was like, you know what, fine, I'll just, I'll pick it up, I'll try it. And yeah, I really enjoyed it, but there was something kind of, I don't know if you feel the same, because it's like the first kind of real shooter that I got into, like when I was like a teenager, it was probably Call of Duty, and it seemed when you switched from
00:06:39
Speaker
like playing Call of Duty, running around and things and then you switch immediately to Halo and it's kind of like, I don't know, it's like mechanics wise and things. It's a different kind of ad, it's a different ad, I totally agree with you. It's a very different like experience. I really struggled going with Tina because Halo was, and I credit Halo with, certainly probably FPS shooters are probably still like, they definitely were like my favourite genre for a long time and they're probably still
00:07:03
Speaker
are if I had to pick one. I credit Halo, the original Halo, for starting me on that kind of path. But I totally agree that I did transition to play more kind of Call of Duty. And it is difficult. They are quite different in many respects. So I totally agree with you.
00:07:19
Speaker
I mean, plus the setting as well, because I think at the time when Halo was popular, I think Call of Duty was still in its World of War II phase. It's weird, because when you think about it, it was a complete stark line that was drawn right in the middle. It's like, if you wanted your, you know what, I was going to say root and toot and then I have no idea why.
00:07:39
Speaker
Like a routine World War II shooter. You just, yeah, you stuck to Call of Duty or Battlefield or whatever but if you wanted your sci-fi, like there were loads of sci-fi shooters, I don't think they had the same prominence maybe.
00:07:55
Speaker
no I don't think there was as many I don't think there was as many big I mean maybe I'm wrong in this but I don't think there's as many big like sci-fi shooter franchises as there are now like where they feel they feel like they are like you know the biggest genre of that because the only one I can think of off the top of my head and I'm thinking like in terms of the PlayStation I remember they had I think it was called Killzone maybe oh yeah that's true
00:08:17
Speaker
I think I played the demo and I got really bored of it. It wasn't a bad game. I think it was just, it wasn't my thing, if you know what I mean. It's like, you know that way where you're just sitting there and you're just like, I don't know.
00:08:32
Speaker
Something just don't resonate with you. Oh no, definitely. But I can't. Killzone is a good one. I can't think of any other, especially when Halo 1 and Halo 2, that kind of early 2000s, I'm really struggling. I'm sure there probably was someone, maybe somebody in the chat.
00:08:50
Speaker
like you can listen in but I can't think of any sort of really big franchise obviously ecology was years and years ago something like oh the duty went into territory like that so yeah it was kind of more unique at that time we'll come back to it we'll definitely come back to it just like yeah it'll be somebody like no I can't even think like there was arcadey shooters like time swifters and things like that but it wasn't like I
00:09:14
Speaker
I don't know. It's like it's weird to describe Halo. It's like you know that way when you have your generic shooters and things like that and you play them and you think oh yeah it's all right and then like you play one game that stands out. It's like you don't even need to nine times out of ten unless like they really aren't individual games. You don't really have to explain what Halo is like to gamers or you don't have to explain what a college duty is. It's like just hearing the name alone it's like
00:09:41
Speaker
That's it. You think of like brand recognition. Yeah, I think most people could probably like recognize the Master Chief as well, even if they haven't played. Sorry, if they're into gaming and stuff, even if they haven't played a Halo game, you can probably recognize Master Chief. Oh yeah. Or at least you'll know, you'll be like, oh, that's, that's how you look.
Halo's Legacy Beyond Gaming
00:09:56
Speaker
It reminds me of you, all those videos where they always get, it's like a younger person who gets a grand or granddad on camera and they're like, oh, who's this character? And they're like,
00:10:07
Speaker
And you know, it's like they'll say something silly like, I don't know, like Master Chief's The Jolly Green Giant or something like that, and then they get it for the TikTok and think, well, it wouldn't have been TikTok back then, it probably would have been Vine, but you know what? Actually, before we go into the games, out of curiosity, was there any other media that you saw halo in? Like, you know, outside of the games, did you read any of the books or...
00:10:44
Speaker
stories. Apart from that, I think that's the only other outside of the games, like Halo content. I haven't watched any of the TV kind of stuff. Apart from that, I haven't read any other books, but that's one book I did read. The only thing that kind of swayed me towards Halo, and this is going to sound really weird, but there used to be a YouTube series. I don't know if you remember Machinima,
00:10:54
Speaker
I have read one of the books.
00:11:06
Speaker
back in the day yeah it was like Machinima just like for context for anyone who doesn't know like Machinima was this huge like kind of umbrella company and not to be confused with Resident Evil but they were kind of blood suckers from what I've heard and basically there was a lot of people who yeah it's like a lot of people signed up with them to make gaming videos yeah there was Red vs Blue there was I mean there's loads of them like I can't think of like a lot of them off the top of my head
00:11:34
Speaker
That was definitely, yeah. And it's weird because you would think, like, when I'm talking about all my Shinaman things, like, that was the one that got me into it. But it was actually, and funny enough, the series is still going. It's one called Arby and the Chief. I don't know if you've seen it. I've not heard of that one.
00:11:50
Speaker
I think I've kind of like, I think between that and Castle Crashers it's probably got lost in the fix when they've been recommending it to you being like, oh yeah, oh yeah, or being the chief. Essentially it's about a guy who he has like a figure of Master Chief and he has like one of those voice, you know like the text to speech voice things. He's got one of them and he sits like Master Chief in front of his Xbox and Master Chief plays the game and everything and
00:12:18
Speaker
you know it's like he's quite crude and he's like he's kind of the opposite to what Master Chief should be which is kind of where the human is like he's the stereotypical or he's played as like a stereotypical um like gamer or like at the time an xbox gamer at the time where you know like what xbox 360 chat was like it was just the worst soul kind of but then he also got like a figure of the arbiter who again it was like the same voice um
00:12:45
Speaker
mod thing but he was played as the straight man against his childishness. It was so well done. There was a lot of even heartfelt moments. It was a combination of the two figures playing games and then it cut to the machinima aspect where they were actually in Halo 3. Some of it, I have to admit the humour is quite, I suppose you could consider a little bit, quite a reflection of the time I would probably say.
00:13:15
Speaker
yeah probably because there was a lot of edgy humor back then on youtube and i know that's supposed to be like his character and it but yeah that's what kind of got me interested because i saw like after that more and more people were talking about like halo and things and i don't know whether that was the moment where i was like hmm maybe i should check out this halo and yeah i did and yeah nice yeah kind of
00:13:40
Speaker
It's funny you're actually talking about the Halo figures, because that reminds me, I think I still have. I definitely bought some of the Halo action figures, and I must still have them somewhere though. They'll be at my parents' house somewhere, but I definitely had them. I definitely had a Master Chief, and I'm sure I had some Leets or something. Thanks for reminding me that. I'll have to dig the map next time I'm back.
00:14:01
Speaker
It's weird because you know how Lego are very funny about who they give out a license to about their toys and things? Yet for some reason it seems as if MegaBlox, you know the kind of knockoff of Lego, it's like they sweep in. We're like Lego wouldn't because
00:14:20
Speaker
I kind of know where I heard it, but I'm sure they have something against making Legos of army figures and things like that. They've got all the action stuff like for Star Wars and things like that and everything under the sun, but they don't want realistic armies and things. And then of course you can hear in the background the megablocks just rubbing their hands together.
00:14:42
Speaker
just like i'll take a bit of that yeah i'll take a bit of that pie and they just took it and it's just like oh my god uh it's absolutely crazy there you go but yeah they did the same for halo as well where it's like i've seen those sets yeah
00:14:57
Speaker
It's like the big bobblehead master chief running around with his big hook arms. It's crazy. So yeah, swiftly moving on from that, you know, nightmare to nightmare.
Navigating Halo's History and Platforms
00:15:11
Speaker
So yeah, I think a good place to start would probably be the beginning. Like from Halo 1 to 3. That was, I suppose, the definitive trilogy, wasn't it?
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah, and that was also the peak of my kind of interest and love of the series and everything was those three games. I'm assuming you went like an order. You went from one, two, and then three. Yeah, I think I've played them all. I think I've played every Halo game in order, I think, of release. I think so, yeah. I'm pretty sure I have.
00:15:41
Speaker
you're actually better than me then because as I said Halo 3 was the very first game that I played and it's kind of funny just to kind of give context like Halo 3 was one of the very first games that you and I played and we also played it with our friend Steven and Steven was very much in a similar boat to me because he basically he hadn't played a Halo game before that and it was the same boat as me I had never played like
00:16:10
Speaker
I had never played a Halo game until Halo 3 back in the day and I was so, so confused. I honestly can't imagine what it's like. I can only imagine what it's like going in because that game throws you straight. It doesn't even bother like... I don't think it bothers recapping anything. No, it doesn't. It throws you from the sky. It says, oh yeah, here's them. Here's the Master Chief. Here's some aliens. Go shoot them. Oh, by the way...
00:16:37
Speaker
Yeah, oh by the way, there's a blue woman that'll flash up in front of you every so often, and it's like, what the f- what is going on? I think the worst thing, and this is gonna sound like a really weird nitpick, but I remember the first time I played it, and you know how you see the brutes, the big cloud monkey people, who are like the main antagonists of Halo 3? So of course I didn't play Halo 2,
00:16:57
Speaker
which was where it shows you the schism of the Covenant. Yeah, I didn't know about that. So the only thing I knew about Hero was I knew the Master Chief, I knew about the Covenant, and I knew that the elites were the enemy. So when I jumped into Hero 3 and the elites were fighting side by side with you, I was like, what the hell is this?
00:17:19
Speaker
Yeah, that would have been good to have explained that. Shoot the alien, but not these ones. Not these ones. Don't worry about why don't shoot these ones, but yeah, just don't. Oh, I was just like, I was playing that like having a good time, but at the same time it was like, I have absolutely no idea. It's like, you know that episode of The Simpsons where Homer watches Twin Peaks for the first time and he's watching it and he's like, brilliant, I have absolutely no idea what's going on.
00:17:46
Speaker
That's how I felt. I was like, I've got no idea what, who he is, what he's doing. I've got, oh, no idea whatsoever. It's funny because I think that your journey into Halo, into the Halo franchise is probably, and I don't have no evidence for this, but I'm guessing, it's probably the more common as compared to mine, just because the original Xbox, I know obviously it's sold
00:18:08
Speaker
fairly well but like far more people bought Xbox 360s than ever bought like original Xboxes and obviously I don't think you could play Halo on anything. I don't know if it came out if it ported to PC or anything. I think. I know it has now but I don't know when that happened so I don't know if you were ever able to play like Halo 1 or Halo 2 on anything but an original Xbox. Yeah because I think Halo 2 came out for the PC but I don't know about Halo 1 but I definitely know Halo 2 did and like others. Oh and at the same time like. I'm sure it did.
00:18:38
Speaker
Well, fair enough. Well, maybe I'm wrong on that one then, but I just thought, because I know the X-Force 60 sold so many more copies than the original Xbox. I just assumed a lot of people would have got into the series in Halo 3, which makes it maybe all the more, only that they didn't bother putting any kind of recap or anything into these people into it and just thrust them in. Yeah, because Halo 1 and 2, in fact, I think I know exactly why.
00:19:02
Speaker
I think you're right because Halo 1 and 2, yeah it's weird because Halo 1 and 2 were on the original Xbox and it was one of those consoles like I suppose it was like the collector inside of me like I really wanted to get it but already had my brother had like the PlayStation 2 and I had the GameCube. It's like you remember how hard it was, see when you were kids like trying to like create a PowerPoint presentation of why they should buy you
00:19:29
Speaker
a game console when you've already got it. Yeah, exactly. And it's like, oh, how do we explain this?
00:19:37
Speaker
Yeah, I think as well like especially if you're at that point you had like a PlayStation 2 already like you probably maybe maybe your parents wouldn't have bought you an Xbox or you maybe you weren't just inclined to get one while like that's the thing that I think the Xbox 360 worked in its favor is that it came out before there was like a PS3 or anything so you know if you wanted to move next gen next generation you had to buy the 360. Yeah because the 360 definitely came out before the PlayStation
00:20:01
Speaker
I think it was at least a year, wasn't it? It was something ridiculous. It was really bad. I can't even remember why it was. So they had a good running with promoting Halo and things and I think when I first got into that generation I only had a PlayStation 3 and then I think it was later on because all my friends were moving on to Xbox 360.
00:20:25
Speaker
that I decided to buy, yeah. And that's when I got into Halo, so I got into Halo really, really late. I got into it very, very late. Barely then never. Yeah, it's true. Like as I said, when I got Halo 3, it was before Reach was out. I think it was kind of the time where Halo 3 and ODST were coming out side by side, but Halo 3 was like... It was a good couple of years old, but it wasn't old enough to like be superseded by anything else. So like I had a good couple of months of fun out of it before Reach came out.
00:20:53
Speaker
my beginnings with it was I got here with three, played it, loved it, even though I didn't know what was going on. It was actually, like, it was probably one of the very first games I played when I was online. My multiplayer, yeah. It was like with a friend but in kind of like often a tangent here but I always remember because I didn't have the wireless adapter. What I used to do was I had my laptop and I had an ethernet cable
00:21:18
Speaker
And what you could do is you can plug in your Xbox C60 into your laptop and bridge the connections. It was so complicated because every time I wanted to go online for the Xbox C60, I had to connect it to my laptop. Then I had to bridge the connection. And then because I was bridging the connection and that type, which meant like
00:21:37
Speaker
if you had like a certain type. I don't even know, what does NAT stand for? It was like the type of connection or something and it was like... Yeah, something like that. But it's like if that was closed then it meant that you didn't have as much chance to find people. I don't know why though. And the things you did to just do some tea bagging. Exactly. Back in the day. I know.
00:22:01
Speaker
The struggles we had when we were young. These kids nowadays, they don't know our pain. So that was the very first proper online game that I played. I played that and then I think I got into ODST after which I know you love.
00:22:16
Speaker
I'm sure we'll talk about that in this video. And then, yeah, like I backtracked, like I went from three to one, or sorry, three to ODST, then back to one, and I never played two until a couple of months ago when I did it with Steven as a ghost stream. You did like the machete kind of version of playing Halo Kids or the Halo. Yeah, like I'm sure there's a fan out there who's like, well, actually, it's the Harvest canon.
00:22:46
Speaker
god jesus i probably something that's just like i can't believe it but i mean i liked Halo 1 for what it was but i feel as if it's one of those games that you need to kind of grow up with if you know what i mean yeah i totally agree i and i think i said this when we were playing it as well like
00:23:02
Speaker
I think you even have had to have played it at the time and like have really fun memories
The Gameplay Dynamics Debate
00:23:07
Speaker
of it. Or I think if you want to play it now, you want to go back and play it now, I think you should play it with a friend. I think it's the exact, I think Halo is better, as I said this at the start, I think Halo is better with friends anyway, but definitely I think for the original Halo, go back and play it with a friend because it's a lot less infuriating. It's a lot less like aggravating if you do it with that delay.
00:23:27
Speaker
Oh no, totally agree. I've got nostalgia to get me through it, so I don't need that. I just put my nostalgia goggles on, sit back, pretend I'm nine years old again, and yeah, still love it. It's one of my favourite games. I will be blind to whatever flaws there are in it.
00:23:42
Speaker
Oh, of course! I was gonna actually ask, before we move on to any of the future games, so I'm quite curious to hear what your thoughts are on the controls in the original trilogy. Because this is one of the things, and I'm probably gonna upset anyone who's listening to this, but who loves the fact that you can't sprint in the game. Yeah. Yeah, what are your thoughts on that? Because that was one of the things that drove me absolutely mental from going to college with you, where you could run about
00:24:12
Speaker
to playing as this super soldier who is massive, you know, the peak of humanity and all of this, and he can't run. He can do it like that. You know the supermarkets nowadays, but it's like you don't run in it because you don't want to be lingering. You do that kind of shimmy in a strut. It's like shimmy go free. Exactly, you're like, sorry, you were saying.
00:24:32
Speaker
Man, that armor's heavy. I'm not going to be. It probably takes just enough energy to go at a plumb walking pace, let alone sprint. I know what you're being referred to. I think it's something now that going back to it is quite like a, oh, god. But I don't know. Again, and maybe somebody can correct me on this, but I don't feel like sprinting was a big mechanic in a lot of games. A lot of the early college duties didn't have sprinting. No, no. The old Medal of Honors didn't have that.
00:25:00
Speaker
And so I'm sure there were some games that did have sprinting and stuff, but I don't know for like, for me, it wasn't a bigger mission, like, because it just wasn't a thing like that you had at the time. And I think, I think it's for me personally, it's kind of balanced out because you have like credible like jumping, you can like jump so high, there's no Halo game that I'm like, that's something that I'm, you know, I feel like actually, I like compared to some of the other kind of Call of Duty's were obviously like,
00:25:21
Speaker
yeah well apart from when you're like powered up and whatever like oh yeah of course robotic seat you have now but like in the old ones like it was a much more kind of uh yeah with the jumping thing while halo you felt like you could like you'd like springs on your shoes and stuff yeah it was like a min jump
00:25:36
Speaker
almost yeah i suppose you're right because i'm thinking of like older like really old like um like golden eye and time splitters and things like that that are kind of similar mechanics and yeah i don't think the character moved faster in those games like yeah or something like the character moves around at like quite a fast
00:25:55
Speaker
Oh god they do actually. It probably is a lot, like the carriage is probably slower movement in Halo so it's a fair point. Before we move on to Halo Reach, before we move on to a game that's probably really well received, yeah I'm gonna give you the floor on this with ODST because I know it's a running joke on this channel that you are not a big fan of ODST.
00:26:17
Speaker
Yeah, well, the game that gave me the game that gave me a splitting headache. Yeah, like, oh, no, we haven't finished. We didn't finish playing through it. But I thought maybe maybe playing back again, I was like, oh, maybe like playing it with friends, perhaps I'll get a new appreciation for it. And like it's always fun to play anything with you. So, you know, but I just for me, it's the worst. It's the worst in the it's the worst. I think kind of two big reasons for our first of all, like I felt like for the price, the charge for it was extortion. I don't think it's a full game. I think it's a horrified expansion.
00:26:47
Speaker
I felt like they, I said only two things, I'm going to list more now, but they stripped out features like dual wielding and stuff, which felt like a step back. And like, I don't know, I felt like the reasons they gave for it weren't that convincing. It's like, oh yeah, you know, you can only dual because you're a super soldier, but I don't know, like, okay, fair enough. Maybe like, you're not dual wielding like rocket launcher or something.
00:27:08
Speaker
people can hold two pistols at the same time and stuff like that's not a super human it's like we don't you don't see somebody with like holding two pistols like oh my god that's like Superman yeah yeah no it's just the thing i'm laughing that is i'm thinking like because the ODST and the canon are meant to be like
00:27:25
Speaker
their like special forces you know like the best of the best like i remember the trailer like ages ago and it's a great trailer don't get me wrong like if anything Halo does really good like adverts and things for their stuff um their advertising's usually on point i'm gonna come back to that later by the way when we get into Halo 4 and 5 um i'm gonna come back to that but yeah it was like there was an advert for it where it showed you like
00:27:49
Speaker
the soldiers going through bootcamp and everything and then they put on the helmet and then they drop down and it's all really gritty and seedy. It was a great trailer. It's kind of what convinced me to get it, to actually pick up the game. And I was like, yeah, you know what?
00:28:04
Speaker
really was and then I bought it. I remember enjoying it at the time but see going back and playing it like again it's a game that is definitely a lot more fun with friends but not on your own. I feel like it's all right on your own but I feel as if with friends as you said it's a lot better. It's those night missions. I think that's the thing that kills me. It's those night missions that you have to go back to every single time to like run around this like kind of open map to basically do like a scavenger hunt
00:28:31
Speaker
And it's just like, that's not, to sound like that kind of like fanboy, but that's not Halo. That's not what Halo is like. Halo has never been like a kind of stealthy experience. I don't think it suits that kind of thing. It's fine for like maybe a Call of Duty game to do something like that, but it's not in keeping with the kind of Halo, which for me has always been kind of like big kind of bombastic, like, you know, like the sport, like the music itself, like for Halo is, which I'm sure we can talk about more.
00:28:58
Speaker
But it's all bombastic and operatic. And that's kind of what Halo is to me. It's big action, big set pieces. It's not like sneaking around streets at night looking for whatever broken helmet or whatever. And I think that's what really killed the game for me. I just find it boring. I don't think it's good. Yeah, I can understand that. Definitely.
00:29:17
Speaker
No, I can understand that because it is. Halo, I think it was more in the originals, I would say, that you had a lot of moments where it gave you time to breathe, if you know what I mean. For example, in the very first level, it's like everything's going on, you're getting shot at, you have to run through really tight, claustrophobic spaces and things.
00:29:37
Speaker
And then in the second level, it's like you've got this vast open planet and it gives you time to kind of walk around, to kind of breathe, take in, you know, see the sights, just check into hotel, you know, that kind of thing. And it's like, yeah, that kind of made sense for the design at the time. Whereas I feel as if nowadays it's like,
00:29:59
Speaker
or not nowadays but when that game came out like that was around the same time as like you know like Call of Duty 4 I think it came out at that time I want to say yeah yeah that's yeah like those kind of big games you know and they were like fast paced and it was all the as you said like the bombastic music and things and then you get to ODST and it's like oh yeah uh find my socks and you're like wait what yeah what
00:30:25
Speaker
It really lacks set pieces of the game, I think. It lacks really memorable... And I think there's a few in there. There's that one in the zoo, I think, which is probably the best in the game. But it lacks, just as you said, talking about... I still vividly remember things from the original Halo, stepping onto Halo for the first time. It doesn't make me the best now, but at the time, being like, oh, wow. And you can see the ring curving down and everything. The open space and the beach assault and the silent cartographer level.
00:30:53
Speaker
the first time you see the flood. All these moments that have just stuck with me all this time. I just don't have any of that for me. There's nothing that I can be like that sticks with me. Sorry, I'm just laughing there when you said about the floods. This is going back to what was saying earlier that Halo 3 was my first one. Whenever I talk to or read any
00:31:12
Speaker
fan recollections of what's your favourite hero moment or what was the scariest or things and they always nine times out of ten they'll point to the flood level and they'll say oh it was so scary you know oh I can't believe it you know but the way they introduced them in Halo 3 you kind of have to know in a way like what's coming it's like you kind of think oh no what is that oh no it's the enemy from the past game
00:31:37
Speaker
I remember walking around the corner and just seeing these random zombies walking around and I was like, ah, okay. And I had no idea what to think. I was like, eh. Yeah, the way to get induced to flood is you need to have the private Jenkins video. That's how you need to get induced to flood because that's still great. I still love it. Oh, yeah. Like way of doing it. But yeah, it doesn't have that Halo 3. Oh, no, definitely not. Yeah, Halo 3 is definitely, and I'll probably come on to it later, but Halo 3 is
00:32:06
Speaker
Halo in general is one of those series that has a real trouble worldbuilding or explaining things. I'll come back to that later, but oh my god, it's a pet peeve. But speaking of pet peeves, Halo Reach! Nah, I actually, I'm not gonna lie, Halo Reach was the turning point for me where I thought, this is a series I'm probably gonna keep following.
Halo's Storytelling and Development Critique
00:32:30
Speaker
I don't know, like what did you think? Did you get it when it came out?
00:32:34
Speaker
I didn't get it when it came out because I'd kind of fallen away from Halo by this point. I was super, obviously loved Halo 1, really excited for Halo 2. But the ending of Halo 2 kind of really bugged me at the time, which I think maybe started me being a bit like,
00:32:49
Speaker
in the series but i still got halo free when i came out and enjoyed playing that and everything yeah yeah i don't really know why i think i probably got more into kind of call of duty at that time and i think maybe i got more interested in those kind of like kind of like modern military or like you know kind of historical shooters as opposed to the kind of sci-fi so yeah halo reach i remember it coming out and but it just passed me by and i didn't get it until
00:33:10
Speaker
a few years later but yeah so like I was a bit late to that one but yeah I remember playing it and being like yeah this is a great one yeah and I still wasn't playing it again with you guys I was like this is a great game I mean what other what other game lets you jump into a forklift and charge down like a giant alien hunter you can't beat that
00:33:29
Speaker
I was going to say, if you want to see that clip you can go into my YouTube channel, that's that tsunami fortitude. And my god, that is by far one of my favourite moments of streaming. It was just you yelling. Oh, we've got a forklift and then you just started charging. Quite possibly one of the most dangerous enemies of the game that literally grabbed the forklift and just flipped you in the air and it was like, oh my god. You spun me round. Yeah, it was like, oh my god. But I loved it. I loved the mechanics, I loved
00:33:58
Speaker
Yeah, I loved everything. I loved the mechanics. I loved the fact you could create your own Spartan OC donut steel. I loved everything about it. I loved the mechanics. The only thing I didn't like, and again it goes back to my like complaint about sprinting, was yeah, just the fact that it was a power-up rather than like a natural thing. And that annoyed me after a bit, but not like overly so, I have to say. More and nearer to it than that.
00:34:20
Speaker
Yeah, more irritating but not overly. I think the story is great in Reach as well. I think it's actually a really well told, relatively simple story. I actually think it's probably one of the best in terms of a story of any of the kind of Halo games.
00:34:37
Speaker
I feel like, and again, I'll talk about it, but I feel like in some bits it's a bit rushed, but at the same time it's an enjoyable rush. It's like Halo 3, you have no idea what's going on, but yeah, at the same time it's like you're enjoying the journey, if you know what I mean. Yeah, you enjoy kind of getting caught up in it, and you're like, I'll just go, I'm willing to go with it, even though perhaps I don't understand every single thing that's happening. Yeah, it's a bit like Twin Peaks.
00:35:03
Speaker
Very good point actually. I'd say Halo is the Twin Peaks of video games. Yeah, it's like, see if you jump into it without knowing anything about it, it's like they don't explain it, they don't really, they kind of just expect you to like take it at face value almost, like here's aliens, they're bad, go shoot them, and you're like okay, okay, okay, voice in my head. A lot of those aliens are your friend. It's like Halo. It's happening.
00:35:28
Speaker
Oh, it's just all over the place. But I mean, that was kind of a problem. So I'm just thinking, like, Halo Reach was, I mean, excluding, like, the spin-offs, like, Halo Wars and things. About Halo Reach time, was that not when there was the huge schism where Bungie... That was Bungie's last game, I think, wasn't it? Yeah, I'm sure it was, yeah. Yeah. No, they stopped making that. And then, yeah, 343 Industries came into the mix. And I, I mean, you know,
00:35:56
Speaker
juicy, spicy opinion here. And tapping the table as I'm saying this, I'm like, I think that... Like genuinely, I feel as if 343 in terms of gameplay did a better job, but in terms of everything else did very, very poorly. And the only reason I say that is because I think 343, if you're free to jump in and say objection or anything,
00:36:22
Speaker
But I feel as if... I'll let you go first. I feel as if 343, I think because it's the power of hindsight, Halo was a relatively new IP when it came out, and I think was it the late 90s, early 2000s, roughly? 2001. 2001, yeah. And yeah, it was like, you can understand why they were kind of rusty. Well, not rusty, but why the mechanics were so different and evolved. Because I thought Halo would reach other than sprinting, but that's like me nitpicking.
00:36:50
Speaker
like everything else was like really, really well done. And I mean, the only way you could really go was up from there. And I felt as if Halo 4 and 5 did a good job gameplay-wise, but eh, just everything else, just... I mean, sorry, I'll let you go. Sorry, no, I was going to say no, that's interesting, because I was just trying to think like whether I...
00:37:11
Speaker
disagree with you here like I definitely agree with you in terms of gameplay I think the gameplay evolved well but I think as well that's just that's also like the time and stuff you know like that's kind of the way issue you had to do you can't really concrete controls and stuff aren't really excusable now in a way that they kind of were back in you know the early 2000s and stuff so I totally agree
00:37:30
Speaker
that way in terms of in terms of like other things i had to i'm going to met like and i played i played both halo 4 and halo 5 i had to look up the stories again because it's been a while yeah so i don't think there is memorable i do think halo 4 like and i i do think they had a good like the master chief katana relationship was i i'd like that in halo 4 i thought that was actually quite well done and like maybe as well because i've just been having played like the previous games and
00:37:57
Speaker
and like into the you know the series and invested in the characters I found it like moving at points and stuff so I like that bit but I had to remind myself of what else happened around the game so I definitely agree in terms of that I think as well like sorry just I think as well like I think Halo has kind of become a victim of like it's kind of got itself a little trapped in that I think
00:38:17
Speaker
I don't know if you could have a Halo game now that doesn't have the Covenant in it. And I think if you look at the way Halo 3 ended, it was almost like that was done, that was kind of done with. And then it was almost like, oh, no, wait, the Splinter factions and the rebels and everything, trying to force the Covenant back into it again, because they're such an iconic enemy. And I don't know whether you could have a Halo game now that didn't have the Covenant in. So I feel like it suffers a bit. It's almost kind of got trapped in its own, I don't know what the term is, but it's got trapped in its own history.
00:38:46
Speaker
like a bit of nostalgia bait essentially yeah yeah like and i i don't for good and for bad and stuff like i don't know if i'd want to play hill again that didn't have the covenant in it so i'm would be part of the problem no i can see what you mean it's just it's not a very it doesn't seem like it's a series that takes a lot of risks if you know what i mean it's no i don't really
00:39:08
Speaker
It almost feels as if they always try to play it safe and kind of buy the books. Well, it's weird, it's like they play it safe and buy the books but then they also go through and do all these wacky bat shit and saying things. So Seamund 4 started, the very first time I played 4, it's a beautiful looking game by the way. It's even today, maybe I'll have to go back and revisit it with you guys and play through it. But I remember thinking this is a really good looking game.
00:39:33
Speaker
Again, that was one of the things I was disappointed at, like in the trailers and the promotional material, and it was kind of like, why are the Covenant back? Oh, as you said, there's a splinter faction and it's like, that's just lazy. I can understand there being splinter factions, but I'm like, sorry, I know I keep making references, but it's the steam terms of sci-fi shooter games where it's like the Covenant come up and it's like,
00:39:57
Speaker
the Covenant on this Halo ring on this planet all collides directly in this Forerunner artifact. Yes, can I shoot them? Can I shoot them? No. That's honestly how it feels, it's just like they come in out of nowhere and it's like oh yeah they're just here because and it's the same with them because I know in Halo 4, like just in case any of you guys like
00:40:24
Speaker
Oh god, because I forgot about it. So as I was saying, one of the annoying things, or one of the major groups I have with especially as the series went on, was the way they were all built. Because say for the first three games, and even Reach, it's like you could kind of forgive them. Because Halo 1-3 were telling a set story. It was like the story of Master Chief.
00:40:46
Speaker
finding out what Halo was, trying to stop it and then trying to fight the Covenant and then his story was kind of wrapped up at the end of the trilogy. ODST and even to an extent Halo Wars, they were all their own self-contained stories, if you know what I mean?
00:41:02
Speaker
But then Halo 4 did this really weird thing where they started pulling things from the extended lore and it was like, it really confused me because it was like, right, who's that guy? Who's this guy? Oh well, if you read the, you know, the extended novel of The Fall of Reach or if you read this then you'll know who that is and it's like,
00:41:21
Speaker
Honestly, there's a whole extra story that you can find in Halo 4 about the diadact's reasons, the main villain in it. There's a whole expansion about why he does it, he fought a version of humanity and wiped them out and then he brought in a new hero.
00:41:40
Speaker
I'm kind of bringing out a notepad in pen. I need to take notes here. Who's this guy? Who's that guy? And then I think the worst thing, or there's many worst things, between that and the way they went with the prophecy story line, which I don't know about you but I really hate that in stories. Because it just spoils the ending when someone says, oh it's the prophecy. And Master Chief, you're the chosen one. And you're like, well the prophecy spoiled it. It's like the fortune cookie of games.
00:42:09
Speaker
you've opened it now you saw he's gonna win it's like why would you oh i don't i don't get it yeah it kind of feels like the lazy kind of thing to do as well um it does feel the safe as you say it's gonna be a safe option just to like pull the old prophecy card out there
00:42:25
Speaker
And I mean it's between that and the whole Spartan four thing that was Oh God. Yeah, like yeah, it's funny saying that don't about the extended Lord. Maybe that's maybe that's why I don't remember stuff about these games. So well, perhaps it's because I was like, I don't know. You just get into people that is like having not delved into the extended law at all. Like, you know, I haven't don't really have any interest.
00:42:50
Speaker
yeah i'm just gonna be like all right okay whatever and just you know brush it aside so yeah that's an interesting point but yeah uh yeah because it's like the thing that really hooked me on to like see Halo 4 especially was see the opening of it like i'm not a big fan of the game i think the game is like kind of okay like i don't think it's amazing at all but i don't think it's the worst Halo game that's coming up in a run in five minutes but it's like
00:43:14
Speaker
At the very beginning, just a difficult context to the chat and everyone listening, there is a scene where basically it shows you the master chief talking to... No, sorry, it's like the woman who created them or made them into the person holding them. And she's talking about the psychological effect and how because they've been brought up as children to basically be killing machines against this horrible, horrible alien species trying to invade,
00:43:42
Speaker
and everything. It's like it's left them emotionally detached. And I thought that was fascinating. Like genuinely, I was like, I want to see more of this. Where's it gonna go? And then it never comes back. And you're like, wait, wait, no, no, come back. And then
00:43:57
Speaker
Kind of to add insult to injury, so what I was talking about earlier was the Spartan 4s. So basically the way it works, I don't know like the exact numbering system, like who's who, but I remember Master Chief, like the main character you play in most of the Halo games is a Spartan 2, isn't he?
00:44:16
Speaker
And Spartan II is in the lore and everything, and usually I'm not one to be in the lore, but it's in the lore for it. He was basically one of many children, so the idea behind it is that the Covenant, the alien race who you fight in the game,
00:44:33
Speaker
are winning the war and humanity is so desperate that they start kidnapping children, experimenting on them and turning them into these horrible super soldiers that's basically robbing them of freedom and everything. It's robbing them of a life and it's all really interesting stuff. For a game that's like a colourful shooter game,
00:44:53
Speaker
I think it added a much-needed sort of finish to the interesting plot point. For a game that's synonymous with tea bagging, it's a really cool, well not cool, but it's a really interesting point. And then in the fourth game they're just like, oh by the way we've got these things called Spartan 4s and it's real easy, you just fell out of form. Pick up your armour over there and yeah you're a Spartan now. And it's like, no!
00:45:19
Speaker
I don't know, it just spits on almost the original trilogy if you know what I mean. All of these poor people who have gone through this hellish experience and then it's like, oh anyone can do the training.
00:45:36
Speaker
I think as well, I see what you're saying, to provide a slight counterpoint, because I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but to provide a slight counterpoint, I think there is an interesting idea there of being different generations of things in these original...
00:45:51
Speaker
you know like as you say like emotionally like broken like mentally like you know damage like people who've formed like the Spartan twos and stuff and then you know the kind of new like volunteers or the Spartan fours is an interesting dynamic there but maybe maybe they did explore us a little bit in the in four and five i don't recall it them exploring it
00:46:09
Speaker
I don't think they ever quite explored the kind of conflict. You could have interesting conflict, I believe, between those kind of two things, but I don't recall that being explored. So I think it was almost a missed opportunity. I think they kind of just mishandled it in a way. Maybe they did and maybe I've just forgotten. If they didn't do it well enough, they didn't do it more memorably enough for it.
00:46:29
Speaker
That's a weird thing because in Halo 4 especially, they've got a whole separate mode for the Spartan force. And it's called Spartan Ops or something. And they tried to do this whole huge substory of you trying to assassinate the leader of the New Covenant. And it's because it was multiplayer only. That was the first problem. It was multiplayer only. So if you can't get online, you're a bugger. That was it.
00:46:57
Speaker
there was no point doing that but the story changed like every couple of weeks it was like told through like chapters so if you like missed a week you had this huge chunk of oh i'm on the hero ring oh them and outer space how did that happen you know like there was no there was no way to play it by yourself i don't know if they changed
00:47:15
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. They changed it weekly, did you say? Yeah, it was either weekly or monthly but there was a period of time they definitely changed it and I don't know, I genuinely don't know whether that's because, you know, I don't know like if they've changed it now maybe and you can go back and play it like alone but yeah, they just kept like rolling the different chapters so like one week would be
00:47:37
Speaker
yeah one week would be something else and then one week would be another thing and they've tried to kind of continue that story into Halo 5 and they just yeah they just ruined it. I was going to say do you want to start in Halo 5 or do you want me to start? I mean I feel like I should see the floor to you see the floor to me to rant about ODST so I feel like I should I feel like I should give you the I'll give you my time to you can you can go you can go guns blazing into into Halo 5 and then I'll come in and interject to
00:48:05
Speaker
interject some I don't know some of your say things but please go ahead yeah yeah if this was a just world I would just simply say Halo 5 is one of the worst things I've ever seen in my life and that would be it that would be it I would just end right there and then they'd be like yep okay it's the worst thing I've ever seen since the rise of Skywalker but no
00:48:27
Speaker
I've got to continue because I have a duty to warn you off of. Basically, all I can say is, the gameplay was alright, the gameplay was good, but that, I suppose at this point, is kind of expected because I've got a couple of games under the belt. So it's like, okay, fair enough, fair enough. But the story is an utter abomination. So back to what I was saying about the advertising. The advertising, I remember this, I don't know if you remember it when it came out, it was like the Master Chief against a new Spartan called Spartan Walk.
00:48:57
Speaker
or something and it was like both of them were hunting one of each other down or something like that and they made this big thing about oh you have to choose sides and all of this and they made it really exciting but when you actually played the game it was kind of like where's the drama? Where is the story that you were like talking about through like the advertising and there's a guy who
00:49:17
Speaker
I think it's called The Act Man or something on YouTube. He does a really in-depth look into this, like the advertising and things. And it's absolutely shocking what they got away with it. I mean, it's all fair and good, see? Just to slap Master Chief's face in a packet of Doritos. That is fair enough, that's what you expect. But you don't expect them to up and lie about the game.
00:49:38
Speaker
The other thing that really I was howling at when I found out it was actually a thing is, in one of the official Halo 5 websites, apparently there's a diagram they put up showing you the extended lore that you're supposed to read before you play the game to explain. So basically, they tried to put an emphasis on it being a four-player game. The Master Chief's part of the game has him and his own team
00:50:06
Speaker
which is never in the games by the way they are not mentioned at all in the games and then as soon as they come in this game it's like oh you're supposed to know who these people are and it's like I don't know who you are it's almost like going paintballing and then just some random joint your team is just like I was like paintball and you're like
00:50:26
Speaker
away from our game and they're just like oh no I like it you know it's like no get away and put down the paintball gun but it's the same it's like both teams have like so many characters it just feels like really bloated you have to read the lore and everything and usually I'm all about the lore and everything but in that it was like
00:50:45
Speaker
it almost felt as if they were like just throwing in everything and then just rushing right through it and then it's like oh character x is evil now and oh now the forerunners had like this massive like i don't even know what it was do you remember like the big guardian thing yeah i don't remember what it was but i just remember it being annoying to have to keep fighting it
00:51:07
Speaker
Oh yeah, again, I love the gameplay, but the story was a hot mess. Honestly, it put me off heel for a good while until I started playing it with you guys again. Honestly, I think it'll be a fun stream for you, Steven and I, to do in the future. But oh my god, no, the story is a hot... It's one of those things that's like, it's so bad it's good with friends. But if you're watching it on your own, it's just so bad. So yeah, sorry, I'll let you. As I calm down in the corner, I'll let you.
00:51:36
Speaker
No, it's a fair point because I didn't realize that like, I think it's one thing to be interested in the lore of something. It's another thing for a company to be like, yeah, you need to read all this. Like here you go, get your wallets out, get your wallet out, start buying and start reading up on all this to enjoy our game properly. So I didn't know about that. So that has actually brought the game down a bit in my estimation.
00:51:58
Speaker
I can't work up Victoria for Halo 5 because I just found it boring. I'm with you. I don't think it's a great game. I think it's a fine game. I just found it quite dull. And I think it suffered from the fact that they tried to put too much into it, having too many different stories and everything.
00:52:18
Speaker
And I think as well, like it suffered from this big focus on being four player, because as you said, they had to then add all these extra characters in, which was unnecessary because I don't think there's anything wrong with like, if you play like Halo 1, you're playing as like two Master Chiefs. Like, you know, it's fine. You know, wasn't Halo 3, it's like one person's a Master Chief.
00:52:38
Speaker
and the one's the arbiter and you got two elites, that's all fine. There's no need to have four named characters. I think as well, because again, I had to read up the story for Halo 5 because it's completely gone out of my mind. Having read it last night, I've honestly...
00:52:55
Speaker
Have you read it? But I think as well like what I'd be reading again is that like so as you say like it's it's Master Chief's old team who are also all part and twos but like correct me if I'm wrong but I'm I'm like 99% certain the big thing in Halo 1 was that he was the only Spartan left like all the other Spartans have been wiped out he was the only one that was left and then it's all of a sudden like oh no that he was the only one but there was also these other three
00:53:19
Speaker
who were, I don't know, like, I don't know, totally Donald at the time that, you know, before the Reach was happening? Yeah, I think the thing with that was, like, yeah, it's like they never mention any other Spartans, if you know what I mean. Like, in, like, Halo Wars even, or Halo Reach, like, there's Spartans everywhere. But when it actually comes to, like, the lore and everything about Spartans and things, yeah, Master Chief was like,
00:53:47
Speaker
obviously because that was the very first couple of games so you can understand why they would focus on him more as a single character. It almost feels as if as soon as 343 got their grubby mitts on it they're like, oh we're gonna create so many Spartans. Like after seeing Reach and probably seeing how successful it was, they're like, oh we're gonna get all the Spartans in reading the books furiously under the blankets and Bungie coming in with the torch saying, okay 343 it's time for bed. They're like, no!
00:54:17
Speaker
I'm going to create a game. It honestly just feels like a fanfiction at the end of the day. I think that's the worst thing. I mean, it's probably similar to how I feel about things like Star Wars and things where it's just a whole lot of wasted potential. As I said, the whole thing about Master Chief being down on the—not down on his luck, that's an understatement.
00:54:38
Speaker
being blasted halfway across Spade. So yeah, at the end of Halo 3, he's in half of a ship floating in the middle of nowhere in space, so you can kind of assume that he's really down on his luck and then he has to fight the Covenant again.
00:54:56
Speaker
But that whole thing about the psychology behind it, like obviously I don't expect him to go like full Citizen Kane or you know like I don't expect him to do that because at the end of the day it's a shooter game and it has to be like entertaining first, it has to be good like gameplay wise and it has to be entertaining and flashy enough to like get people's interest which they do, they do that well like by jingling their keys.
00:55:20
Speaker
yeah it's just it almost feels as if like they could have taken it and such they could have had their cake and eaten it i feel personally but i feel as if they were either trying to do too much or like in some cases they just went all in or in the cases where they should have gone all when they didn't do it enough like for the dyad actors like they created this like alien who was this ancient terror you know beneath the beneath the i don't even know where he was probably in his bachelor pad like
00:55:49
Speaker
quarantined himself yeah and then all of a sudden it's like he comes out and he's like oh sup you're like what what is actually going on in this game you're just sitting there like right okay there's this guy he's got psychic powers um he turned all the people that were shooting at me into bad guys okay right um okay yeah exactly and they did delete the whole Cortana like
00:56:15
Speaker
the AI like going into Rampancy, like going kind of a bit local which I have to admit that was interesting but yeah I don't feel as if though it was like enough to save it if you know what I mean. No I think as well like I feel like with 343 Industries and their versions of Halo it feels like they've kind of caught themselves in this ground up that they wanted they wanted to obviously make a new story and they want to kind of do new things
00:56:40
Speaker
but they are caught with the history of Halo and what's come before. And they can't quite disentangle themselves from it, so they have to keep bringing the Covenant back. I think as well, because I remember Cortana appears in Halo 5, which I think was just kind of undermined some of the stuff in Halo 4. I think Halo 4 would have been a perfect send-off for that character, but they have to feel like they can't get rid of it. It's Cortana, you can't have a Halo game without Cortana.
00:57:08
Speaker
Which you probably could, like, you know, you easily could. I think she actually had, that character had quite a good end in Halo 4, but it just seems they can't, they can't let go. They can't let go of, like, you know, what it is, and perhaps that's part of the problem with being in an established franchise now. I'm just thinking, yeah, I'm just thinking of, like, the kind of personification, like, the image in my head of that, like, 343 crying, and then Bungie yells, she's not coming back!
00:57:35
Speaker
and it's just like well I'll write her back into the story and it's like it's exactly like what you're saying I mean it is just total nostalgia pandering I feel like it is it's just total nostalgia bait where it's like oh you like the covenant oh we've got the covenant oh you liked Spartans well we've got Spartans here you liked you know this and that you like oh and one other thing like sorry just before we kind of like
00:58:00
Speaker
move on but like one more thing I do not like the designs of the new games like yeah just the armor the aesthetics although the games look beautiful I feel as if everything's just over designed I mean I don't know if you feel the same way but I think I think that's actually I think that's actually
00:58:19
Speaker
a fair critique because I think they're moving back to like they're deliberately moving back to certainly if Master Chief has armor design is moving back to be more reminiscent of what it was in Halo 2 and Halo 3 as opposed to like you know the more kind of over-designed one they've had recently so yeah no like I think that's a fair criticism.
Future Expectations for the Halo Series
00:58:34
Speaker
I was really surprised at that and that kind of moves us on nicely to a last point about Halo Infinite. Yeah, see when I saw the trailer for that coming out and there was a lot of people complaining about his design and I was like, but why? I was looking at it and I was really digging the design and the mower kind of simplified. Yeah. Don't get me wrong, it didn't look quite amazing or anything but I mean,
00:58:56
Speaker
I actually really dig the style that they meant for. Just because it was a lot more simple. The way I think about it is when a child has a favourite character and then they end up drawing them, it's like they can draw Sonic because he's really simple, they can draw Mario because he's quite simple and they can draw all these characters. Granted children shouldn't really be playing Halo but let's face it, they do.
00:59:22
Speaker
Yeah, I did. I was nine years old. I played it as a kid. I didn't play until I was 15. Oh god, I'm really getting into stuff late. Yeah, I'm trying to think of the armour in Halo 4 and 5 and I just remember it just being an utter cluster of... I was actually looking at some pictures now. Yeah, it's a lot more going on. There's a lot of unnecessary detail on it. I'm actually quite glad they've moved away from that.
00:59:49
Speaker
it's like bits sticking out of it and you know things moving around and you're just like and that's what I didn't like as well so I remember like getting the forerunner guns for the first time so Halo 4 and 5 they introduced a new enemy type called the forerunners and the guns that they use are like they're obviously supposed to be really alien but
01:00:10
Speaker
it's like when you get them they kind of all like piece apart if you know what I mean like all the bits are flying around and like the scope's kind of hovering on top and I just I really don't like it and again like I'm not like saying oh because I don't like it everyone has to hate it you know it's like because I don't like it but I I really couldn't get into that kind of design and things like that yeah I agree I think it is a bit of it does have from over design
01:00:37
Speaker
in a way that like the original kind of Halo weapons were like, I still really like the designs and stuff. But again, they don't, they didn't feel like they're really over design. They actually felt kind of like to sort of load the words I'm looking for, but they felt kind of, I thought they were really good, like aesthetically good looking weapons for what they were like being relatively simple as opposed to, you know, as you say, like these like weapons with like, you know, floating like sites and everything. Yeah. Lots of like over design and stuff. So yeah, I totally agree.
01:01:04
Speaker
Because I mean, even with the Covenant weapons, they were still outlandish, but they were almost rooted in some kind of logic, if you know what I mean. Like, it was still a gun, it was like, you still got the brute shot, which was just a big cannon, or you got the needle art, which, you could see the needles at the top, like, feeding in.
01:01:21
Speaker
and things and to the gun before it shot like everything kind of made sense even for aliens you know like but there was some yeah there was some kind of logic and kind of simplified design there but then you look to the forerunners and like Halo 4 and 5 and you had all these weird weapons that they introduced and it was just like nah it's like nah i don't like this i do not like this well hopefully they'll pair if they're pairing down the armor hopefully they'll go back to a more simple design with a lot of things
01:01:50
Speaker
I'm kind of hoping so. What are your hopes for the future of Halo and in terms of like Halo Infinite as well? I kind of hope, and this is maybe going to be me asking for the impossible here, but I want the games, I would like Halo games to evolve to be a bit more different to what they have been. And to just take a step, move forward and try some new things. But at the same time, and again, this is what I'm going to be asking for the impossible, but at the same time, keep that to
01:02:20
Speaker
Keep that kind of Halo feel like you know, it's fine to change and I think they should evolve a bit and try and change with the times But don't jettison everything and don't lose like the identity Yeah, what a halo game is and you know, I'm I can say this not being a game designer I'm not working on this so I can ask for for all these things having properly played them But you want I don't know like I want to play a game that feels I'm trying to think if I can think of an example
01:02:45
Speaker
So maybe something like maybe something like I quite enjoyed like the last kind of cold you modern warfare Yeah, it was a bit more different to what I've been but it kind of brought back elements I was like, okay this kind of feels like a more kind of classic call of duty in many ways So I kind of want something like that with it with the Halo games
01:03:02
Speaker
I'd like to see them push the boundary a bit more and don't feel that you have to stay trapped in the confines of the Halo universe and what's been before. We have to have Cortana and we have to have Covenant and we have to have all this sort of stuff. Feel free to take some chances with this. I think it needs to take some chances with Halo 5 just being what kind of dull game it was. Whether you just thought it was dull like me or whether you
01:03:25
Speaker
you really didn't like you really took it against it like you did like it was it was a doll game that that felt like it was pushing things in the in the wrong direction but also at the same time being trapped by old things so i wanted to see them move on a bit try new things but at the same time keep keep that halo feel you know like and make it fun just make it fun to play with friends because i think that's what it needs to be
01:03:45
Speaker
No, definitely. I mean, it almost feels as if they're kind of shackled by, you know, like, the old games. I mean, as I said, with Halo 1-3, that was like a kind of contained story about the Master Chief. And it's like, obviously they want some continuity, but at the same time it's like, you know, like, at the end of the third game, again, spoilers. What, is that, about 14 years later? Yeah, as long as you watch daily footage of streams then, you know. Oh, yeah.
01:04:12
Speaker
Yeah, oh, of course. Yeah, 16, 14 years later. Yeah, so Halo 3 ends by, I think, you end up escaping in a spaceship and it gets cut in half. So the idea is half of the ship is thrown into the far reaches a space. Nobody knows where the Master Chief is. They think, oh, he's dead, you know? And it turns out he's chilling in a pod. He's doing nothing. He's just chilling and waiting until they find civilization again.
01:04:41
Speaker
that is so interesting because it's like you've got this whole completely unexplored area of space. You think you could do so much with that? It's like what aliens is it gonna meet? You know, what creatures? What life is it gonna find, you know? And then literally the first level is, oh we've got more Covenant. Oh.
01:05:01
Speaker
Just slip straight back into the same old formula. Yeah it's like okay okay okay the covenant okay fair enough and yeah it is it's like just going back into your comfy shoes you know it's like dressing up in a you know suit or something you're thinking oh I'm gonna make a real impression and then coming in your slippers because you're just like oh they're comfy
01:05:22
Speaker
And you're just like, no, move away, set your own identity. And it's like, yeah, it's almost as if they can't let go. Honestly, the more and more I talk about this, the more it feels as if like three for three really need to like go for kind of like relationship counseling to be like, let them go, like make your own thing, make your own life, because it is, it's like,
01:05:42
Speaker
clinging onto these small tidbits and trying to make it their own and it's like, I mean there's some bits in the game that it really, like, they do shine through. Like as much as I've kind of been ranting on 343 said, oh bad game, you know, they do have good elements in it and they do have like good bits of game design so it's like, they can do it. It's just,
01:06:03
Speaker
How are they going to do it? So yeah, I kind of hope as well. Like, for here one for that. I almost feel as if though. Like, Indiquit will go back to that point. It's like Halo 3 did exactly the same, where it was like... So you know, the first one, you fight the Covenant.
01:06:19
Speaker
The second one there's the schism in the covenant, and then the third one, your main antagonist in the covenant are the brutes. And it almost feels as if it's similar to this in 4. You've got the 4 runners and the covenant. In the 5th one you've also got the covenant, like kicking about. And then in the 6th one, oh it's the splinter faction I think, of the brutes. And it's like
01:06:40
Speaker
Eh, no, do something else, please. I know. Oh, it's just there's so many things you can do. And again, I'm not saying that like, oh, you know, my suggestion is right and everything, because I must admit it must be a really tough job for them. Having all that pressure for a series that's so beloved by a lot of people to create something that stands out. Yeah. Yeah, it must be hard.
01:07:04
Speaker
Yeah, I wouldn't want to have that. I see one of the directors has left the game now. I see it's in a bit of turmoil. It's in a bit of turmoil, I think, at the minute. It should have been out by now, I think. Now it's in the same place as Cyberpunk.
01:07:21
Speaker
Which is something we'll probably be able to talk about someday when it comes out. Oh, that's true. Eventually we'll get round to it. Oh my god, yeah. Between that and Halo Infinite. Are there supposed to be that on Game Pass, won't it? Should be, hopefully. I mean, I think that's what they plan to do. Can't wait. It's kind of been on the Game Pass, so yeah. There you go. Thank you, Microsoft. Yeah, thank you.
01:07:39
Speaker
So yeah, as always guys, thank you all so, so much for dropping into the second episode of Chatsanami. I was going to say, wow, I can't believe it, but it's only been two episodes. I'm like, wow. It feels like last week when I was sitting exactly here.
01:07:57
Speaker
Oh, I do, yeah. But yeah, thank you so much again, Adam, for joining me here. No, thank you so much for having me. I'm always happy to talk about good moments from childhood and good moments from gaming. So thank you so much. Definitely.