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Episode 133: VS Madame Web
1k Plays5 months ago
We are all tangled in her web! Join us as we delve into the mysteries of how exactly the decisions that went into making 2024's most infamous movie got made.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Movie Fighters'
00:00:35
Speaker
Ring the bell, sucka, in the Amazon with my mom while she was researching spiders just before she died. This is Movie Fighters, the show where Chris Simms and I, Matt Wilson, we watch movies and we beat them up. Even that intro is too complicated. Well, that line got removed from the movie, famously.
Overview of 'Madam Web'
00:00:57
Speaker
if If you know what that line was that I said at the beginning, you know that we're watching the 2024
00:01:05
Speaker
Sony Pictures Studios superhero film, Madam Web, released in February of 2024. This is June. So four months. It took four months for that movie to hit streaming. But well I mean, you want to get this out to the people as fast as possible. That's why you put it out in February. That's right. Yeah. Cause that, that is a sign, that's a sign of confidence of competence and of, Hey, we know there's not going to be a lot going on. So we want this movie to have your full attention. There was a line in the movie, in the trailer where Cassie Webb played by Dakota Johnson is talking about the villain of this film, Ezekiel Sims.
00:01:59
Speaker
One of the few comfort characters who shares my name spelled the way I spell it. Spelled the same way, yes. One one M. And like like me, he wears a full ah suit, but no tie or shoes. Looking like a white Andrew Yang. Although in this movie, He's a totally different guy. He's a totally different character who wears a Spider-Man like costume. Oh boy. Love that for us. But we'll get to that when we get to it. Cassie is talking about Ezekiel Sims and she says how he was with her mother in the Amazon while she was researching spiders just before she died, which is such an inelegant line of dialogue that it became a meme.
Hosts' Expectations and Initial Reactions
00:02:54
Speaker
And I think it got cut from the movie, from everything I have heard, the line had got cut from the movie, but that's what we're in for here. That's that's the kind of movie making we're going to be seeing. Matt, can I ask you a question? Please. how much How much do you know about this movie going into it? Because I don't, I've heard but They pretty much described the entire thing on the My Brother, My Brother, and Me podcast that I listened to. Yeah. um Kind of a niche thing. People really haven't heard of it. And I still wouldn't say that I know anything about this movie, but what would you say you know about it? Like, how much do you know about
Art and Unusual Elements
00:03:38
Speaker
it? i I could tell you beat for beat the plot of the movie because of okay my job. And we covered this movie extensively at my job.
00:03:49
Speaker
including stuff where we basically told people the whole plot of the movie. So plot-wise, I can tell you just about everything. But I get the sense that if you're watching this movie, and look, there are people who enjoy this movie. There are people we know who enjoy this movie. Who? Well, okay.
00:04:20
Speaker
That was a great answer to that question I asked you about. Well, all right. I'll say this. Jojo seems our friend who is an artist, ah a great artist. Fantastic artist. I have several pieces by Jojo. Yes, as do I. Jojo was so inspired by this movie that they drew a series of of drawings of if Madam Web had McDonald's Happy Meal toys, and it is absolutely delightful. Honestly, those drawings by JoJo of the Madam Web Happy Meal toys are what made me want to watch it.
00:05:07
Speaker
Uh-huh. I mean, that and and some stuff in the trailers, like that line about spiders in the Amazon just before she died became a meme. But what I think from the trailer should have become a meme is there's a scene. I don't, I don't know if this is still in the movie either, but there's a scene where Cassie Webb played by Dakota Johnson and Ben Parker played by Adam Scott, who are coworkers. They're both EMTs in this movie. They're sitting like in an office, just chatting and eating lunch. And I forget what they even say, but it results in them both laughing. And Dakota Johnson laughs. It's hard to say that a laugh that is meant to be genuine is sarcastic, but that's what it's the most un-genuine laugh I think I've ever seen anyone do. And
00:06:05
Speaker
I'm fascinated by what Dakota Johnson's performance in this movie is gonna be like. Okay, here's the here's two things. um One, I don't know if I would take JoJo's happy meal designs as an endorsement of the film. I think i think it is an attempt to make something fun out of something bad, which I do think is the people who do enjoy this movie, that's what they're doing, right? ha But the fact that you can make something fun out of it kind of makes me...
Reluctance and Obligations
00:06:47
Speaker
Hopeful is the wrong word. But interested to see what the movie actually is. and Okay. here is Here's the question I wanted to ask you now that I know that ah you've got like a pretty good handle on what we're going to be ah seeing here. yeah um What if we didn't?
00:07:04
Speaker
Well, we already started recording. Yeah, but I mean, like, if we don't if we don't, if we stop now, I think we'd be fine. We have made this bed for ourselves. Yeah, I know. I know we did, Matt. I know we did. And and I don't want to. Well, i Look, we're gonna... People expect things from us, and that's why they give us money on Patreon. And so... Here we are. Yeah, yeah but I mean, like... The thing is that I don't want to. Nah. It's a problem. Yeah, okay.
00:07:54
Speaker
I mean, I think we're going to. I mean, that's fine. I know we're going to. I know I know we have to. But I, I simply do not want to. I've wondered what we're gonna say on the other side of the movie. I because there have been times when we've been excited for a movie and then watched it and then come back and been like, ah And there have been times when we dreaded a movie and come back and been like, actually that was fun to watch.
Spider-Man Elements and Decisions
00:08:28
Speaker
So I don't know what is going to happen here. I, this is one of those movies for me that I know is going to be bad and know is going to be like is, is, you know, a failure on so many levels, but it fascinates me.
00:08:49
Speaker
Like the decisions, the the the the the domino effect of decisions that went into this movie ultimately getting made absolutely fascinate me. Like one thing I know for sure is that this is a movie called Madam Web with Ezekiel Sims and Ben Parker and Mary Parker, but no Mayor Richard, weirdly. They are mentioned, I know. They are mentioned.
00:09:20
Speaker
and And Mary is pregnant with Peter, who will be Spider-Man. Yeah. jail But they never say Peter's name. It's it's got all this Spider-Man stuff in it, and they go out of their way to not ever talk about Spider-Man. Do you think it was like like trouble? where they they wanted to hide that it was a Spider-Man thing first. I mean, it's called Madam Web, so I think not. I mean, I know. But like, OK, here's a thing. And also what I would say is maybe a problem with this movie. No one is the fuck Madam Web. No, like I like we know. And she was weirdly big in a cart, the 1994 cartoon. Yes. If you watch the mid 90s Spider-Man cartoon, you know who Madam Web is.
00:10:15
Speaker
Yeah. but like if Also, if you're a big fan of The Gathering of Five, you know who Madame Webb is. If you're a big fan of The Gathering of Five, which I am and which i is one of the reasons I don't want to do this because I know that that that does not happen in this movie. But here's the thing. I think if we like The Gathering of Five, there's not a non-zero chance that we get some enjoyment out of this movie. Okay, fair enough. Here's the thing. I think with the existence of Venom, Morbius and Madam Web.
Comic Characters' Success in Film
00:10:49
Speaker
I feel like there is a perception among non-comics people involved in making superhero media, like particularly movies, I think, that one character is as good as another. but like Yes, I fully agree with that. That all comic characters are equal. I think that there's definitely, there are definitely executives at Sony.
00:11:15
Speaker
who don't understand why venom is popular and successful and Morbius and Madam Web weren't. Yeah. And I feel like there is a like that perception has been reinforced by the fact that there are multiple, very successful movies starring Rocket Raccoon. but The Guardians of the Galaxy is the best example, yeah. Yeah, Guardians of the Galaxy like in general, but like specifically Rocket Raccoon. I wish I could tell them that as someone who loves third-string D-list comic book characters, that that's not true.
00:12:06
Speaker
And that some characters require the existence of, you've got to have a hundred characters before you have Madam Web. Yeah. You know? Here's the problem. Sony only has the Spider-Man characters.
00:12:26
Speaker
Yeah. So you're going to run out of people who are worthy of making entire movies about very quickly. Yeah. Like, who among the Spider-Man characters should there be movies made about that they're having yet? Like, it's kind of just Spider-Man, right? it Yeah, I mean, it's Spider-Man and out of push Venom. and aip put Well, Venom ended up being successful, you know? Yeah, and I like those movies. I like those movies a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they're stupid, but they're fun.
00:13:00
Speaker
Like yeah, like there's spider-man venom and then there's other spider people you can make movies about like you can make movies about miles which they have You can make movies about spider Gwen, which She's the secondary lead in the spider-verse movies. Yeah but like after that like I know they wanted to make specific movies about villains. That's a bad idea. if Making a movie about a villain is always a bad idea. like That Craven movie's gonna be bad. Yeah. like that's That's the other thing that I think people don't understand. is that like and And this applies to both fans and and like some you know John Sony ah sitting up in his office.
00:13:50
Speaker
ah oh Is that like good villains are good but good villains are good because they're good villains and fundamentally protagonists and antagonists are made to fulfill different roles and Don't always work when you switch them over Unless of course, it's a lethal protector Well, unless they become a protagonist right like unless They are popular enough to sustain it. But I don't think you're gonna do that with Craven. I don't think you're gonna do that with even, like, Doc Ock.
Sony's Spider-Man Universe Challenges
00:14:25
Speaker
You know? No. No. It would be wild if they made a superior Spider-Man movie and all of a sudden Tom Holland was saying shit like, the die is cast.
00:14:35
Speaker
the You exhaust the characters that can sustain a movie so quickly when you just have Spider-Man. that I think that's their problem. you know like They're trying to milk it, continue to milk this, but they don't have anything.
00:14:56
Speaker
They can only really kind of just keep making Spider-Man movies. And that's great because Spider-Man's good. Spider-Man's great. Spider-Man's great. And Spider-Man has a great supporting cast. And Spider-Man has a great roster of villains. You could just make Spider-Man movies and kind of not run out, you know? but As evidenced by the fact that they've made a thousand issues of Amazing Spider-Man. But that's not how movies work, right? That's not how movies work. Movies take years of development. And so a Spider-Man sequel is going to take a couple of years to make. So it's like, okay, what do we do in the meantime? Let's use some of these other characters we have. Hey, Venom.
00:15:38
Speaker
That worked. So let's just start making all of these. Like Morbius should have been the sign, right? But like... I mean, I'm sure Madam Webb was already on the on the docket. They had a docket of wild ideas for characters to make movies out of. um with All of which I think have been scrapped now. But yeah, it's it's such a weird situation yeah man i just it's it feels like the height of hubris yeah i mean at least madam web doesn't feel like the height of hubris morbius feels like the height of hubris because again no one was there to tell them that morbius ain't never getting over no
00:16:25
Speaker
No, and and we still got more obtober because we had to not do more obtober because of the strike Last year, so we still have that clock So all right a few quick notes about this movie ah It's directed by sj
Director and Writing Team Discussion
00:16:43
Speaker
clarkson This is her only feature film and unfortunately may stay that way She has directed many many television projects Some of which are pretty good. um She directed two episodes of Jessica Jones. Succession, and one episode of Succession. She has directed Bates Motel, Ugly Betty, Whitechapel, Life on Mars, eight episodes of EastEnders. So so she is she's British then. She's foreign. Or has worked in the the British film industry. She's from the the United Kingdom, yes.
Cast and Character Portrayals
00:17:24
Speaker
unfortunate for her that this had to be her her film debut. um She is one of four accredited writers on the movie, along with Claire Parker, Matt Sazama, and Burke Sharpless. And there's also three story credits. So that's always a great sign, isn't it? um Well, it depends on whether the story credits ah like are also like Roy Thomas. you know um They're not. they They're two of the credited screenplay writers and then another another writer.
00:17:59
Speaker
ah so Also, cast-wise, in addition to Dakota Johnson and the aforementioned Adam Scott, Sydney Sweeney is in this movie, somehow, I guess, transcending being in this. She plays- I don't know anything about Sydney Sweeney. of it Like, literally nothing. Like, I could not pick her out of a lineup, other than that my my wife doesn't think men should be allowed to write about her. um That's probably fair, yeah. i Some women shouldn't be allowed to write about her either, because I've read some articles written by women that are
00:18:36
Speaker
Pretty not good, too. Anyway, ah she plays Julia car Cornwall, who is actually Julia Carpenter. Julia Carpenter, Spider Woman. Do they not call her Julia Carpenter? I think she becomes Julia Carpenter when she gets married. So this this is her maiden name. I gotta say, I don't blame any of these people if this movie sucks. ah Isabella Merced is Anya Corazon in this? I love Anya Corazon. I love our Anya. Yeah. Celeste O'Connor is Maddie Franklin. Fuck yeah. Gathering of five. Let's fucking go. So we're getting toward the gathering of five. We have two. We have two of the five. I mean, Norman Osborn's been in a movie. We have three. Yeah, but but
00:19:30
Speaker
Oh boy, if fucking Willem Dafoe shows up in this bad boy. He won't, he won't. He won't. But if like, if the last scene is, is... And I want to gather the five. Like fuck yeah, like I will, I will eat my words happily.
Humor and Fictional Characters
00:19:49
Speaker
The other two, Morris Maxwell and Gregory Hurd, are nothing. So like, we don't even- They might be in this. They might be, they might be. ah Tahar Rahim plays Ezekiel Simms. Let's see, Mike Epps is in this movie somehow. ah Mary Parker is played by Emma Roberts, daughter of ah movie fighters favorite, Eric Roberts. Ah, yes, from DOA. Yes. One of my favorite things to do is when an actor is mentioned,
00:20:24
Speaker
to is to ask if they are from like a DOA quality work. Eric Roberts from DOA? From DOA, Dead or Alive. He had sunglasses that made him quite good.
00:20:43
Speaker
We should curate a film festival of movies with magic sunglasses and we could watch DOA and They Live and I'm sure we could find another one. I'm sure there's more, yeah. Zosia Mamet plays Sims's assistant, Ezekiel Sims's assistant. I want you to keep a particular eye on her throughout the movie. Okay. There's something I know about Zosia Mamet's character ah that You will also, I'm sure, notice as we watch.
Dakota Johnson's 'Nepo Baby' Status
00:21:15
Speaker
Is she Morlin? She's not Morlin. I mean, I guess she could be, but that's not the thing that ah I would say to notice. One more thing before we get to watching the movie. I want to have a quick discussion about Dakota Johnson. This is our new movie fighter segment, Fifty Shades of Dakota Johnson. Yes. Dakota Johnson is
00:21:40
Speaker
Perhaps the ultimate Nepo baby, right? she's is she i i Again, I know very little about Dakota Johnson. She is the daughter of Don Johnson and Melanie Griffith. Oh, okay. And she is the first Nepo baby actor that I can think of who seems like they don't want to be an actor.
00:22:08
Speaker
What I know about Dakota Johnson is mostly that people have the impression from like interviews and stuff. First first of all, I know that Dakota Johnson was instrumental in ending Ellen DeGeneres' reign of terror. That's true. That's the best thing she ever did. So hero. Hero. you Off the set, hero. Real life hero, Dakota Johnson. Real life hero. oh The other thing I know is that like, yeah, there is at least an impression that she's not that into it. She's never into it. Here's the thing about Dakota Johnson. Okay, so she did some, she she clearly hated being in the Fifty Shades movies, or at least she hated her co-stars. Yeah, well which is bad when you're in a, ah ah what is ostensibly a sexy thriller. Yeah.
00:23:00
Speaker
She also did some interviews for this movie, like you know promo interviews for Sony for this movie. And there's one that starts with, I've always wanted to be in a Marvel movie, and it is the most deningious disingenuous sentence I've ever heard anyone say.
Actors' Enthusiasm and Role Choices
00:23:20
Speaker
I've always wanted to be in a Marvel movie, but you know what? Not this. Not like this. I wanted to be in one of the good ones that makes a lot of money.
00:23:30
Speaker
If you imagine every single sentence that comes out of Dakota Johnson's mouth, imagine her being at held at gunpoint saying it. That's how I feel. like I feel like Dakota Johnson is just doing this because she feels like she has to, and she'd be happier doing anything else. Oh, so she's like, She gives you the feeling that Randy Orton gives me. There are times where it seems like Randy Orton is actually having fun, but I see what you i see what you mean, yes. Yeah, yeah. Where, like, like like again, I have not seen Dakota Johnson in anything. The fact that she cannot disguise her... um Contempt. ... ambivalence and contempt does not give me the impression that she is a good actress. But I don't know.
00:24:24
Speaker
ah but I've always wanted to ask Randy Orton in a non-confrontational way, Hey man, do you like pro wrestling? Yeah. Because, you know, third generation, yeah he's obviously like, you know, he possesses the skills, but I'm very curious to know like if it's what he wanted to do. And so coming from a, a Hollywood family, i I would be very curious to ask that of Dakota Johnson, especially if she doesn't really seem like she likes doing it. I would love to ask Dakota Johnson. like I think Dakota Johnson will eventually hit an age where she doesn't have to pretend anymore. And at that point, I would love to ask her just very straight up simply, hey, what movie did you like being in?
00:25:20
Speaker
it's i It makes me curious. because like Because I do feel like there is a possibility that she's just you know kind of a weirdo who comes off that way. And if I did ask her that, she'd be like, no, I love acting. Yeah, she'd be like, I love i love being in all of them. Yeah, like i like it's it's foot like there's a lot of people who get into acting because it allows them to kind of transcend their own like awkwardness as people. And I'm, I would be curious to know, uh, which, which weirdly enough is a very Spider-Man thing. That's true. I Dakota Johnson is a fascinating figure to me because I hear Sydney Sweeney is a fascinating figure too. ah but Boy, all those are the goals that my wife is mad at. Boy. Oh boy. Anyway,
00:26:18
Speaker
I'm sorry. That was a rough one. no it's good i mean you'll pat out Fair cop. The thing about Dakota Johnson for me is just like... i I've never seen an actor like there's plenty of actors who like are in movies that they don't love that they were in and but they still have to promote it and so they're they disingenuously promote it but they they're actors so they can like pretend right uh-huh Johnson does not have that muscle
00:26:49
Speaker
yeah i feel like there's a huge no I feel like there's two ways you can go with it, right? Like you can do the like, oh yeah, you know, it it was so fun. You get to be a superhero. You get to be this larger than life character, or you can be Jeremy Irons or Michael Caine and just be like, needed the money. Yeah. Paycheck. Look, go to the paycheck. It's my job. It's my job, Jay Leno.
00:27:15
Speaker
It's my fucking job. Well, we're going to watch every day just like you. We're going to watch Dakota Johnson do her job ah by watching Madame Web. Do the J-O-B. ah She's going to do the J-O-B ah here in just a moment. um This movie is on Netflix, so you can watch along with us. ah Internet Flickering Pictures is where it is which is. Which is another great sign that Disney Plus was like, maybe maybe shit ship that one over to Netflix for a bit. Well, it's a Sony movie. so
00:27:48
Speaker
Disney didn't have that option. because the venom movie Are the Venom movies on Disney Plus? You know, I don't know. The Spider-Man movies are. The Spider-Man movies are, but those are co-productions. Okay. Between Marvel and Sony. so like You know, I don't think the Raimi Spider-Mans are, so I think you're right. I'm gonna look and see if ah Venom is on Disney Plus. Because that's a... It is! Okay, so okay. Okay. Oh boy. Exciting. Wow. Uh, okay. The, the Ramy Spider-Man's are also on Disney Plus. Oh, you know what? What if we just watched the Ramy Spider-Man? What if we just watched Spider-Man 2002? No one would know, Matt. Get, cause no one's fucking seeing Madam Web. You know what? Madam Web is, is widely considered to be a failure, but it made back its budget at the box office.
00:28:49
Speaker
Alright. It's budget topped out at $100 million. Box office, $100.3. Okay. Alright, if this is what you want to do, then we can do it. Sometimes I like to do a scientific study. We're gonna watch Madam Web. We're gonna come back and talk about it. ah You're gonna hear a musical interlude. You can watch the movie during that musical interlude as well. I mean, you gotta pause. The musical interlude is not long enough. for you to watch Madam Web in. Oh, hey, what's that what's our runtime that we're looking at, bub? It's longer than it should be. But it's one fifty six nineteen. That's too much. That's too long. It's too long. um You need a tight ninety five for Madam Web. That's the best thing about those Venom movies is that they're short. I mean, the most thing about Venom movies is that they're they're good.
00:29:44
Speaker
And they get that Venom is inherently extremely erotic. Uh, the first Venom movie's an hour fifty-two, but a Venom Let There Be Carnage is a good... Ninety-seven! It's ninety-seven minutes! They knew what they were doing with the Venom movies. Alright, we're gonna watch the Venom web. We'll be back.
00:30:18
Speaker
And we are back from watching Madam Web 2024.
00:30:24
Speaker
And Chris, before we get into it, you seem to not pick up on what I was saying about Zosia Mamet's character, Amaria. No, I didn't catch anything about her. She is essentially a function of the Yes. Well, okay. She spends the whole movie working for Ezekiel Sims. She's always sitting in front of a computer and he's just like asking her to do or he's asking her to do stuff, right? Like, Oh, are you saying like, because she's a Sims who in 2003 is in front of the computer all the time that I would really identify with her? No. He's like asking her to hack into stuff and whatever.
00:31:08
Speaker
What's the last thing you remember her doing in the movie? ah Turning all the stoplight screen. Yes, so at one point Ezekiel tells her to turn all the stoplight screen to like snarl traffic so that he can attack ah Anya and Julia and Maddie. Where does she go after that? I i don't know. She totally disappears. Yeah, she's no longer in the film. Like, Ezekiel is killed, and so I assume she goes and gets a new job. Well, but Ezekiel doesn't ask her to do anything else after that.
00:31:50
Speaker
She's just gone. Yeah, is that why you went because I was hoping she would turn out to be like fucking cardiac or something. That would be i I probably made it sound like something more fun and interesting than what it is then, which is just that she disappears from the movie. Yeah, I mean, she's fine. She's a she's a hench person. We can i like It would have been great if she was like, wow, that was wild, but I guess I can use this this experience being a criminal as the white rabbit.
00:32:24
Speaker
I'll tell you this, bud. I'll tell you this right now before we get into anything else about this movie. Um, it's not good. No. It is, I will say, bad in a pretty enjoyable way. We laughed a lot. Actually, I've actually much more, I enjoyed watching it with you much more than I thought I was going to. Yeah. Um, I do not wish to watch it again. I would watch the shit out of a spider girls Netflix original series. There were plans. There were plans to do stuff with
00:32:57
Speaker
these spider women, but they're definitely all all scrapped now. but I mean, like, I understand because the movie was bad. Yeah. But I would watch 45 minutes of this at a time, continuing with fucking Aranya and ah Spider Woman and ah ahlic Spider Woman 2. Aranya was Spider-Woman 2 and Spider-Woman 3? Matty Franklin? Well, Matty Franklin was briefly Spider-Man. Was Spider-Man for a minute, but like, it she was Spider-Woman 3, I think. I think you're right. I think she was Spider-Woman 3, yeah. And, uh, Jessica Drew did not make it in this film. She was not in this film, no. Yeah. Yeah, Julia was Spider-Woman 2, Matty was Spider-Woman 3. You're right. Yeah.
00:33:53
Speaker
ah I would watch them having adventures and fighting the white rabbit. For sure. Because I do think they are the most entertaining part of the movie. not the The least reason is not that Sydney Sweeney sounds like Lumpy Space Princess. In this movie, almost every line of dialogue she says does does kind of sound like this.
00:34:18
Speaker
Kase told us to stay here. Yeah. Also, like, she's clearly meant to be like 15. Yes. And she is 26. Yes. I mean, that's that's all everybody in this. I mean, Isabelle Merced is 22. So she's a little closer to the age. And Celeste O'Connor is 25. Which makes me wonder if they were planning on having their follow-up adventures set in like 2012? Well, I do think part of the idea was like, so this movie is set in 2003, and there are many signs pointing to it being set in 2003 that also are not very good. like No, the timeline of this movie is fully bonkers cuckoo bananas. All right, let's get into this for a second, because we can we kept picking up on this.
00:35:16
Speaker
The first, well, I mean, first we were told it's 2003. Well, first we're told it's 1973, because there's an opening scene where Cassie Webb is born. That's bananas, but we'll come back to it. Then it flashes forward to 2003. The first sign of it being 2003 is Cassie at one point saying she just wants to go home and watch Idol. Yeah. Which is still on now. Yes. But she wanted to get on and and ah see if she could ah get ready for Ruben Studdard to release, I'm sorry, parentheses, 2004. I think she wanted to go home and vote for Clay Aiken, like my mom. You don't think she was into Kelly Clarkson? I mean, Kelly Clarkson would have been the season before. oh That was, yeah, you're right. Season two was the Clay Aiken, Ruben Studdard season. And my mom loved Clay Aiken. North Carolina's owned Clay Aiken.
00:36:14
Speaker
I saw a TikTok ah recently that pointed out something that I actually hadn't realized before, which is weird that I hadn't put it together, but ah ah that Since You've Been Gone, a song that I love, yeah is basically a Jimmy Hart ripoff by Max Martin of maps.
00:36:39
Speaker
Yes. Like they have the same breakdown. They do. Damn. which is kind of like, unrelated to Madam Web, but fascinating nonetheless. Then there was a Mountain Dew can that I was like, that Mountain Dew can is newer than 2003, but it was actually accurate. I looked it up. It is a Mountain Dew live wire from 2003, period accurate. There's a Pepsi can that's very period accurate. Pepsi Co. gave a lot of promotional consideration to this movie. Pepsi Co is more, there's more Pepsi in this than Spider-Man.
00:37:19
Speaker
Pepsi, Pepsi defeats the villain of the movie. Fucking Pepsi Man should have been in this. Pepsi, God Pepsi Man. Uh, but Pepsi is actually what defeats the villain, what defeats Ezekiel Simms. Yeah. There is a newsstand that has a cover of a Maxim magazine with Beyonce on it that is actually from 2002. Yeah. There's also a big poster or a big billboard for Beyonce's album Crazy in Love. Yeah, which I pointed out that Beyonce is a poor signifier of the time.
00:38:00
Speaker
Because Beyonce is still incredibly famous and is everywhere. And very popular, yes. Like, still one of the biggest musicians in the world. Yeah. Now. Like, just had a new album. Yeah. ah But that it was her 2003 album Crazy in Love that had the Billboard. And we went and looked it up, and Beyonce is signed to Sony Records. So. Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Speaking of Sony Records, the music in this movie? You would think that they would have just gone back to 2003 and popped Rock against Bush into the CD player. the the one The big thing that's missing, speaking of that, is like nobody's talking about the Iraq War. Nobody's talking about Bush. Nobody's talking about 9-11 being two years earlier.
00:38:53
Speaker
You don't necessarily need that, but except for that there's like parts in this movie where it would be very easy and make sense. Like there's a part where they're in the New York City subway system and and there is what is would have definitely been seen as a terrorist attack. There are several things that would have been called terrorist attacks in this movie. Also, it so the two closest to politics from the time things in the movie are in the subway, there is a sign that says, if you see something, say something. And there is a part where ah Anya talks about her dad getting deported. Yeah. She is unfortunately not a specific marker of 2003. No, that's still happening now too. Yeah. Oh, the way there is that part where Dakota Johnson
00:39:49
Speaker
um just fucking spikes the camera and says Bush did 9-11. I think it would be, I said at the end of the movie, there's a part where Madam Webb at the end is like wheeling up toward a window. And I was like, wouldn't it be the biggest best twist if she looked out the window and the twin towers were out there? I wanted them to be out there and have a ah a spider web between them catching a helicopter full of bank robbers. Yeah, yeah.
00:40:20
Speaker
like in that one trailer for Spider-Man 2002. The music cues in this are wild, because there's an entire scene, and I will say, I like all the songs that are in here. Yeah, they're they're not bad needle drops, generally. Yeah, none of them are from 2003. We hear ah there's a whole scene set to Toxic by Britney Spears, which came out in 2004. Correct. And over the course of the movie, I think like several months pass over the course of this movie, even though it feels like it all takes place in a week. Because at one point, like at one point, Cassie Webb is watching
00:41:05
Speaker
fucking Christmas Carol on TV, which is itself a wild scene. Yes. And then, like, late like slightly later in the film, they're listening to toxic, which did come out in January of 2004. So I think that is supposed to be like a progression. And there's a bit where like the DJ interrupts after the first verse of toxic and goes, this tracks gonna be huge.
00:41:34
Speaker
And I was like, you're goddamn right, bud. ah They play, what do they play at the, ah at the cookout? It's a lot of music from the 90s. Yeah. A lot of the music in the movie is from the 90s. So I don't remember what's at the cookout, but I remember Four Non Blondes. What's going on? That's what they're playing at the cookout. They're playing ah what's going on by Four Non Blondes. They're playing at one point ah Bitch by Meredith Brooks. Yes. Which is a 1997 song. And then at the end, they play ah Dreams by the Cranberries. That's the closing credits song. Yeah. Which is a
00:42:16
Speaker
a 1992 song and it's like I don't like you don't have like people don't just listen to current music but this is all like ambient stuff on the radio unless unless at this cookout the dude they're like yeah put on the party mix put on the mixtape that we made that has four non-blondes on it which seems unlikely Yeah, you said that they were all radio stations playing hits from the 80s, the 90s and today. Yeah, it's it's so weird, because especially the Meredith Brooks song, that's not old enough at that point. To be like, yeah, it's not like old enough to have to be on like, ah the the biggest hits of the 80s 90s and today, I don't think.
00:43:13
Speaker
I mean it's it would be on a seven years old. I think it would be on a station that played like Recent pop hits but that you know They're weird choices there you think it would be more songs from 2003 but it's not you think you would have Fucking wake me up by Evan essence under the closing credits Here's some hot albums from 2003. All right? Speakerbox and The Love Below. Yeah. Hey, y'all. Hey, y'all should have been in the movie. Hey, y'all should have been in this movie. ah Vaudeville Villain was out, but I'm not expecting him to put MF Doom in the movie. That's fine. The Black Album by Jay-Z. Yeah. The Evanescence album. oh Permission to Land by the Darkness.
00:44:05
Speaker
I believe in a thing called Love would have been it should have been in this movie. The the Postal Service album was 2003. Yeah. there's that There's a lot they could have put on. and And, of course, Dangerously in Love, which we see a poster for. Yeah. Evanescence is a for sure. For sure. That song was in a Marvel movie in 2003. Booking Ben Affleck Daredevil should have shown up in this movie. Oh, and Elephant by the White Stripes. Yeah, Seven Nation Army could have been in this. Yeah, Seven Nation Army could have easily been in this movie. Milkshake? They could have put milkshake in it? Oh yeah, Kellis was around. Yeah, a lot of options. I'm not saying they needed to put Sufjan Stevens in this.
00:44:54
Speaker
But come on, guys. So going back to 1973, Cassie Webb's mom, Constance, is in Peru leading a research team about spiders. She is heavily pregnant, but kind of only shot from the chest up, so it's not until she like actively starts talking about it that it is apparent. Yeah. um So the idea is that she's hunting for this spider that's said to have rare healing properties. And her apparent research assistant, Ezekiel Sims, says that not only can they heal you, they can give you powers.
00:45:41
Speaker
like a local tribe called the Arranas who can walk through the trees. Yeah, he literally says, this is a spider that gives you superpowers. Yeah. So as we all know, ah oh Peter Parker got powers from a radioactive spider because the spider was radioactive. But it turns out that there are also just spiders that can bite you and you get spider powers and also a costume that looks like Spider-Man. But it's like your skin painted red and like black. I don't even know what to call it. Material. Like they had vines, but like it's, you know, Spider-Man's costume with the webs. They have vines that make the webs.
00:46:35
Speaker
over they've painted their bodies red, but also they have the eye shapes that's the fucking Todd McFarlane ass Spider-Man eyes. It's like Spider-Man's costume by way of Witchblade. It made me so mad that these are just dudes in Spider-Man costumes. And it's not the first or worst of it, but like But like you can't just, not everything is based on another thing, you know? Yeah, yeah. Unless we find out like, yeah, there there's this tribe of of people in South America, the Ditkos.
00:47:24
Speaker
So they're having a hard time finding the spider. Apparently it's very hard to find. Even though um the very first shot of the movie is of a web. Yes. ah like a spider web, ah Constance Webb taking a close up picture of it. And later when she comes back and she's like, I found the spider. I was like, yeah, I bet she looked in the web. That's usually where they are. So Ezekiel goes back to the village where they're like, set up like their base of operations is. And he basically reveals then and there that like, he's been looking for the spider for years. And as soon as it's found, he's gonna steal it. Well, Constance is trying to get the spider from this web. And then ah her baby's kicking.
00:48:09
Speaker
And she's like, oh, my baby's kicking. I hate my fucking baby. So she finds the spider and she puts it in a jar. She brings it to the village and she's just shouting, I found it. I found the spider like this incredibly rare spider that clearly people would kill to get. She's just shouting as loud as she can that she found it and is like holding it up in the air and stuff. In the movie's defense, she is on an expedition to find the spider and the people who who are with her are part of the expedition. It makes sense that she would be excited, especially given what we find out later. I didn't have i didn't have a problem with that because that's like, you know,
00:48:54
Speaker
theyve They found the thing they're looking for and she's excited. i That seemed fine to me. It just it seems like such a valuable thing that you would want to like be a little bit discreet about it, is all I'm saying. Yeah, but you know, she's on her expedition with the expedition people. She didn't know that Ezekiel is going to pull out a gun and shoot her. Which is what happens. Ezekiel pulls out a gun and shoots several people. And before he shoots constants, they have a conversation. And this conversation is shot in such a distracting way where every cut has a crash zoom. I liked it. ah This movie is actually like very interestingly shot. like This is going to be one of my high points. like It is not a visually boring movie for a movie where many boring things happen. I i think it's interestingly shot.
00:49:48
Speaker
but not well shot, if that makes sense. It has a visual style, at least, that you can look at it and go, okay, I get this director and the cinematographer are like, actually, like, I mean, you talked about the director directing episodes of Succession, a kind of famously well made show. Yeah. ah Which makes sense having Which, like, at least there's something to keep attention. Which has a lot of handheld cameras and crash zooms in it. Yeah. So, makes sense to a degree. Nonetheless, uh, he shoots- I told you to agree that, uh, Kieran Culkin is the Earth 3 Ben Shapiro.
00:50:29
Speaker
Wow. We are going to have to do a whole different thing to dig into that. Well, he, he would be like on Earth 3, he would be like the good one. Yeah, yeah, that's wild. i I'll have to think, yeah and he's actually successful in movies, which is what Ben Shapiro has always wanted to be. The real opposite. Anyway, ah Ezekiel shoots Constance, and she is immediately grabbed by some Arranius tribes people, and taken to, like she's like rushed through the tree branches, and she's taken to this like pool in a cave
00:51:10
Speaker
where they have the spider this magic spider bite her, but she still dies, but she gives birth to Cassie. yeah ah Cut two. Well, two things about Ezekiel before we leave this scene. okay ah One, you pointed out ah from Jump Street, Everything this dude says is dubbed. Yeah, everything he says is dubbed, yeah. He is ADR'd to within an inch of his life. Yeah. Which is wild, because despite this, he sounds exactly like Senarkargage. He really does, yes. It is wild though. I do not know if Tahar Rahim, the actor who was Zekeul, is the voice or not.
00:52:01
Speaker
the The actor himself is French, and he sure doesn't have a French accent. Ah yes, Sims, the classic French name. So I do not know. I do not know what is going on with his voice in this movie. I'll tell you this. ah If Sony wants to make me an offer, I will redub this movie in an authentic Sims accent. for $100. That is a hell of an offer. ah hell of it I have done professional voice work before.
00:52:37
Speaker
ah The other thing about Ezekiel is it's a good thing that the first thing we see him do in this movie is ah gun murder a pregnant woman hu so that we know he's the bad guy yeah because ah old Cassie Webb is not the most appealing protagonist. No. Speaking of which, cut to 30 years later, 2003, Cassie Webb is now in New York. And at one point you asked, Hey, how did Cassie get from Peru, the deep jungle in Peru to New York? I was like, Oh, they'll probably address that. They don't.
00:53:24
Speaker
It is, yeah, it is not mentioned. Somehow, it is implied that she went through the foster system. So somehow she is sent back to New York and grows up in foster homes, but we don't know how any of that happens. We just we cut to her 30 years old in New York and is now an EMT. Yes. Alongside ah Ben Parker is her partner who's played by Adam Scott. who's played by Adam Scott. And here's here's what we learned about Cassie in these early scenes. One, she hates people. She doesn't like people. She especially hates children. She doesn't like children. She doesn't want to have any, she doesn't want to be roped into interacting with people, which is how she describes things like being invited to a baby shower. Right, because Ben's sister-in-law
00:54:23
Speaker
mary Mary. Mary Riley Parker. Yeah. Is pregnant and has invited Cassie to... She wouldn't be a Riley. No. Because May and Mary weren't related. No. but I don't know what Mary's maiden name was. But anyway, Mary is pregnant. Cassie has been invited to her baby shower and she's complaining about it to Ben. And Ben's like, just go. How have you never been to a baby shower before? And she's like, I don't like getting roped into things. There's another scene where a child, so they, Ben and and Cassie saved some people from a big accident. at this Ben Parker does his amazing one handed chest compressions. Yes. Well, yeah, the first time we see them, they're in an ambulance and Cassie's like,
00:55:16
Speaker
Driving the ambulance all action style while Ben's in the back administering one-handed CPR and they they Mentioned getting shot at yes, they do but like I don't and there's like a thing where where Ben's like oh just Miss getting shot at That is a weird line that like none of it ever comes back. um Hey, do we know what Uncle Ben did in the comics? He had a job, right? I don't remember if... I honestly don't remember if I remember reading like what his job was. Between the two of us, we have read so many Spider-Man... We've probably read all of them.
00:56:03
Speaker
A lot of them. it It's weird that we don't recall what Uncle Ben did. I mean, they may have been a like a newspaper guy in The New Ultimate Spider-Man. Yeah, but that wasn't, that wasn't what he used, like, it was he like an electrician or something? Or was that like from one of the movies maybe? I don't know. Anyway. In in the, in the Raimi movies, he's like a handyman. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't remember him ever, like ever remembering or seeing, he was in the army. I know he was in the army. Okay, so maybe that's what the mention here is of him missing being shot at. Yeah, maybe.
00:56:52
Speaker
Don't worry, Ben. It'll happen again one day. Yeah. ah Anyway, um, they get to the hospital, they save this person and the child of the person they saved tries to give Cassie a drawing and she's like, no, no, I don't want it. Give it to him. And Ben's just like, just take it, just take it, just take it. And so she takes the drawing and then she tries to fold it. She's like, I can't even fold it. It's like cardboard. And it's just fucking construction paper. It's construction paper. Yeah. honest because ah Being uncomfortable with attention is the most convincing acting that Dakota Johnson does in this entire film. It's true. ah Take from that what you will.
00:57:44
Speaker
She's not a very good paramedic. um We see her in several different scenarios where she's administering CPR and doing various things. And like what is actually happening? i don't well I don't know if it's her specifically that's a bad paramedic. It's like the n why New York Fire Department paramedics just don't know what the fuck they're doing. At one point, okay, so... so we ah The next thing we see is they're at this car accident that where the car is hanging off a bridge. yeah I'm not sure which bridge it is. I kind of want it to be the George Washington bridge because that is the significant bridge for Spider-Man. I don't think it's any of those big bridges between the bridges.
00:58:29
Speaker
ah and ah they cut a guy out of, he's in a car accident, the car has flipped over, they cut a guy out of a seat belt. They cut him out of a seat belt, he just fucking like takes a bump, which I thought was funny. Yeah, and then Ben pulls him out of the car. Ben pulls him out of the car and then she just kind of like hangs out in the car for a long minute. before it starts to slide off the bridge and the door closes on her. Yeah. And she goes into the water and has a near death experience and sees a web all around her and sees like visions of stuff that's going to happen in the movie. And here's lines that are coming in the movie later. And she also sees a big neon letter S, which boy, it's funny that it's the S that she sees.
00:59:18
Speaker
Well, the S is more important for her. but the but the it's a Okay, we're just gonna skip ahead. she says ah She sees a big neon letter S, which is not not in the climax of the movie, but the letter that actually kills Ezekiel Sims in a big Pepsi Cola sign, because yes, it is Pepsi Cola that kills Ezekiel. Refreshing Pepsi Cola? Yes. Is the letter P
00:59:48
Speaker
Yeah, but the S is the one that falls into the water and like bonks her and nearly kills her. Does she actually get hit by the S? Yeah, she gets hit by the S. Okay. Sketchers, baby, it's the S. I wish she had just seen a cool S. That would have been great. That would have been so good. um Also, it's worth mentioning that she encounters all three of the young spider women from later in the movie here and yeah at the beginning. Yeah. Maddie Franklin is ah skating and ah like ends up in front of the ambulance and she has to slam on the brakes and then Maddie Franklin flips her off. Yeah. ah um julia is Julia is at the hospital.
01:00:34
Speaker
Yeah, Julia's stepmother is the one that ah but she saves. And then her brother gives her the picture and she's like, I don't want your fucking picture, you stupid fucking child. Yeah. She didn't say that, but it's very much implied. And she knows Anya already. They talk about the her knowing her. Oh, they live in the same building same building. Yeah. They live in the same building. Yeah. Also, um We learned that Cassie is a terrible neighbor who like takes her mail and the junk mail she just leaves in the lobby. Like apparently just drops it on the floor.
01:01:17
Speaker
Yeah. He goes, well, there should be a recycling bin there. And it's like, yeah, I guess, but like. just Take it to your fucking apartment. You can't just leave shit on the ground. too Put it in your own recycling bin in your apartment. 2003, she's leaving junk mail laying around the lobby of her apartment building. I would take so many credit cards out in Cassandra Webb's name. Pre-approved, baby. It's madness. Cause Cassie is like on the verge of being absolutely unlikable. Cassie is a, Cassie is a very normally unlikable person. Like a very realistically unlikable person. Like she's kind of inconsiderate and she's kind of awkward, but like in a way where she's not like working on it. Right. We also learned that she avoids therapy later in the movie, which tracks
01:02:16
Speaker
Yeah. She's barely like nice to Ben. Ben is the only person she likes because there's see there's a scene where her and Ben are having lunch. They're eating Chinese food and they have literally two dozen Chinese food containers around. They have so many boxes of Chinese food and it's only them in the scene. And they're talking about like various things. Ben is like, why don't you hang out with more people? Why aren't you more personable? and
01:02:47
Speaker
And Cassie's like, I have a cat. That's enough. The cat who is never named, by the way. Well, she's at first, she's like, uh, I don't like to make plans with other people because, you know, maybe I want to walk my dog. And Ben's like, you don't have a dog, but she doesn't even mention the cat at that point. That's true. There's also a really confusing thing where they eat fortune cookies and he like takes a fortune out of one of the cookies and hands it to her. And it's like, you will and then just like a blank and she's like I don't have a fortune and that's she's like I don't have a future and that's not what that means that is a future like you will is a complete sentence you will like it's that's it's a weird gimmick I've gotten fortunes in fortune cookies before that are just blank yeah that's always that's always a fun time
01:03:41
Speaker
Yeah. That's what you need to be worried about. Not you will, but nonetheless, he makes a joke about how like, we got to stop going to this restaurant. They, their printer is broken. It's like, they don't make the cookies, man. Yeah. You were also ah pretty salty about that. And Matt, he's just making a joke. Anyway, he's, I will say this, Ben is quite avuncular. Very avuncular. He wears a lot of, uh, cardigans. Yeah. But like at one point they go to a party with, but but hold on, hold on. um I want to talk about like her affection for Ben, which is just totally glossed over. Cause Ben tells her that he's seeing someone and she asked what her name is and Ben won't say, which is weird.
01:04:32
Speaker
Ben just doesn't say her name and she's like, oh, very serious, is it? And she goes, she's a very lucky woman. And it's like, Ben, how have you not picked up that Cassie's in love with you? Yeah, no, Cassie fully is in love with her friend, Ben Parker. ah I don't know why he doesn't go, Oh, her name's May Riley. She looks like Marissa Tomei. Which, so I'm totally stoked. She's gonna be so hot for so many more years. Yeah, she's gonna never age and be, and somehow get hotter as she gets older. Somehow get hotter? It's incredible. And it's weird, because normally she likes guys that look like Jon Favreau, who also kind of looks the same now as he will in 20 years. That's true. Wow. She's gonna be like the director of Swingers? A new movie that came out this year?
01:05:28
Speaker
Uh, or nobody, nobody said that was all anyone else's money in this movie, which is wild. just all your Swingers was 1996. I'm, I'm, I'm a little early. Uh, anyway.
01:05:44
Speaker
They go to the, yeah, they go to the baby shower. Well, first they go to a cookout. First they go to a cookout because um because after Cassie falls into the river, she has all these visions. ah Uncle Ben brings her back to life with CPR. He like dives in ah and will later say like, oh yeah, you were down there for three minutes before I i could even dive in. yeah you were She's like, was I dead? And he's like, yeah, you were dead, dude. But he has brought her back to life with CPR and rescue breathing. There's a whole thing where she's like starting to see visions of the future, where she sees a vision of like them arguing where she's saying she's okay and Ben is saying she needs to go see a doctor. Yeah. And he keeps talking about her oxygen level. And then
01:06:34
Speaker
that scene plays again and she says her oxygen level is 89 just as it takes up to 89. She's like, yeah, why god why are you making me why are you doing all this again? And this is the start of a thing that is understandable, but not good, which is that Cassie is very disoriented by her flashes of the future. And those are also presented in a way that is very disorienting to the audience. Like there's no indication of what's a flashback and what's not. And I think that's designed to make us sympathize with her, which legit, but it is also very disorienting for the viewer right to to not know what's going on. And this was not a movie that benefited from like the complexities of a memento.
01:07:27
Speaker
Right. I don't think a good way to show something is confusing for a character is to make the movie movie itself confusing. I feel like it could work but not like after the first couple of times at least like we really need a, like, some indication of what's happening that we just don't get. And is it's, again, it's it makes for a confusing viewing experience that actually detracts from my ability to sympathize with Cassandra Webb. Like, I get what they were going for, but I don't think it lands. They go to this cookout. The cookout, the the narrative function of the cookout is just basically to explain, to introduce O'Neill, who's played by Mike Epps.
01:08:12
Speaker
who was another co he was a coworker of theirs. Which ah makes me wonder if Madame Webb was created by Denny O'Neill, which I don't actually know, and I am now curious about. They also go to the baby shower. Cassie is continuing to have like small flash forwards to the future at the baby shower. And they play this game where... Denny O'Neill and John Romita Jr. baby. Okay. They're playing this game at the baby shower where the attendees of the baby the baby shower have to try to guess the name of Mary's baby. And so they're saying like Richard Jr., Paul, whatever, like coming up with what the name could be and they're all wrong and Mary won't say what the real name is. And then they ask Cassie, like, what do you think the name is? And Cassie's like, I don't care.
01:09:09
Speaker
my i don't My mom took me to Peru when she was nine months pregnant and didn't care about me. and um yeah yeah's ah There's another party game where they're talking about like things their moms did when they were kids. And she's like, yeah, I never knew my mom. And everybody's like, oh. And she's like, yeah, she ah she put her career of researching spiders ahead of me, because she didn't want a child, clearly. And Cassie is like, proving herself to be the worst person to invite to a party. And she's also very much like, I'm not like other girls ah throughout the scene. And it's, ah but she's so unlikable. And she's like, yeah, I mean, like, but you know, my mom died in childbirth because she decided to be a hundred miles away from any medical facilities. But i I mean, like, that's probably not going to happen to you. Yeah. You're going to get killed by the red skull. Oh, also,
01:10:03
Speaker
Richard is asked about, and Mary says he's in Mumbai or Shanghai or somewhere. Very different. She's like, I can't keep track of where he is. Seems like she should know. Part of me is like, is that just weird writing or is that because he's a secret agent who's trying to track down the red skull? Maybe a little of both. So when they're playing the baby naming game, at first Cassie doesn't want to answer and then it flashes back again and she's like, didn't we already do this? Is this part of the, is this a, is this like a joke? And as that's happening, there's like, they have to rush to this building full of fireworks that's on fire.
01:10:56
Speaker
Yeah. In industrial grade fireworks, they say. Yes. And so we just cut to like Cassie is administering CPR to somebody on the ground. richard or ah Ben is wheeling somebody by on a stretcher. And Cassie's like, did you check his abdomen? And Ben is like, oh, I bet he's got internal injuries. Thanks, Cassie. And Ben pokes him in the gut, and the guy goes, bah! And he's like, internal injuries, too. Good catch. It's like, why didn't you check in for those before? Anyway. I mean, you know, I get they're trying to drag him out of this exploding fireworks factory, but look like come on.
01:11:40
Speaker
So Cassie's doing ah CPR on this guy on the ground. ah She has a a future vision. And then she looks down at the guy that she's performing CPR on and goes, okay, you're fine. And then gets up and leaves. And the guy's like, okay, cool. And I'm like, I don't think that's how I'm, Matt, disclaimer, I'm not a medical professional. Uh-huh. I have never even had CPR training. I just i know that you're staying alive. right like that's That's how you're supposed to do it. I don't think you are giving someone CPR and then you just stop and go, that's fine. You're fine now. And they, if you were giving them CPR, are in a position to go, okay, thank you.
01:12:28
Speaker
Well, the she says he's ready to be moved out. I swear to god she tells the guy he's fine. She does. She says you're fine. But then she says he's ready to be transported. ah But it's very confusing and wrong. But anyway. At that point, O'Neal is like, Hey, Cassie, I need you to get to to triage. And she has a vision of O'Neal dying in a car crash. Like he's driving an ambulance and it gets hit by a truck. And she also sees blood on her hands. So she goes and talks to O'Neal and she's like, Hey, um, let me drive. And he's like, Hey, you just had a bad work experience. You're going through trauma. Don't worry about it. You're going to be okay.
01:13:13
Speaker
And she just lets him get in the ambulance and drive off. And then the ambulance gets hit by a truck and he dies. He fully dies. Um, to, to be fair. She does go, hey, I don't think this is just a trauma thing. I have a really bad feeling. Will you let me drive? I don't understand why she called her away from doing CPR on a guy and said, I need you, and then left without her. Great question. Because we get her doing a slow walk away, as in the background, the ambulance is hit by a truck.
01:13:53
Speaker
And she tries to administer CPR to O'Neill and gets the blood all over her hands, but he dies anyway. Yeah. so um It's at this point, by the way, ah Dakota Johnson has like really dark hair um that she has bangs. And the way she is styled, I said that the vibe she's giving off in this movie is we have Kristen Ritter at home. Yeah, it's, you know, like at the dollar store where they have the toys, next to Robert Kopp is her and it's like Jennifer Johnson. She's in the package that says Jennifer Johnson. Yeah, she's in there with with Shrek and Optimus Prime and Yu-Gi-Oh!
01:14:40
Speaker
yeah
01:14:44
Speaker
They couldn't include the scarf. The scarf is too recognizable. Yes, the scarf is copyright. And instead of the jean jacket, instead of the black leather jacket, they gave her a red leather jacket. Red leather jacket, yeah. So you can tell. Yeah. Are they Madame Web Action figures? I'm popping this open right now. No, but I am going to link to JoJo's drawings of the to McDonald's. Tell him he didn't get a Marvel Legends, Madam Web, Build an Uncle Ben set. There are Madam Web action figures from the 90s cartoon. um Okay, but this should have been action. fit I would actually go get some action figures from this movie. There are no action figures from this movie that I know of. Now that this has happened and Cassie knows that she can actually see the future.
01:15:39
Speaker
she is thinking about like maybe doing something, actually doing something with these powers. Well, first she goes and gets checked out, seemingly by various doctors, because she's told that she's gotten like um MRIs and CAT scans and stuff. But we see her go to an ophthalmologist, and she's like, why am I seeing the things I'm seeing? And that is so fucking funny to me. It's very funny. I mean, like it if she doesn't want to go to a brain doctor, it is kind of like, it it is Again, it's kind of realistically dumb. Yeah. Also, she Dakota Johnson tries to some degree to be sad over O'Neill's death, and it is deeply unconvincing. I think the sentence Dakota Johnson tries is not applicable to this film. That's fair. I asked you, and it might have been around this point, is Dakota Johnson a bad actress?
01:16:39
Speaker
And that, we can't really answer? so I don't have an answer to that question. She's not, her performance in this is not good. No, but I don't know if that's because she's a bad actress or because she puts none of herself into the role. Yeah, it's just super disconnected and disengaged from the material. Because i like what made me say that was when she reacts to O'Neill's death and I was like, I watched Dune 2 recently, which takes place in a desert that did not have eyes as dry as I see now. Yeah, yeah. There is like there' is such a performance of a performance of grief. Very much so, yes. It's often like watching an alien.
01:17:31
Speaker
And so I don't know if, again, I don't know if that's, if Dakota Johnson's just not good at this. I don't know. I would have to see Dakota Johnson be in a movie she wanted to be in. She's been in so many movies. and and like yeah That's a thing that we talked about. We also talked about um the Dungeons and Dragons movie, which is bad which is worse than this movie by a long shot. The original Dungeons and Dragons movie, the good one. Not the not the the recent one with Chris Pine that's actually very, very good, ah but the one from 2000. And Jeremy Irons hated every fucking second of that movie, but he's, ah as they say, given it socks.
01:18:11
Speaker
Yeah, the whole he's he's a professional. i that makes me That sounds like I'm saying Dakota Johnson's not a professional, but she is very bad at hiding her contempt for the material in everything. Either she's bad at hiding it, or that's just or she's just not a good actress. Yeah, I don't know. And I honestly don't know which, because I'm not trying to be mean to her, but man, Meanwhile, Ezekiel goes to an opera, so you know he's a bad guy. Right. And he meets a ah woman at the opera. he He looks exactly the same, by the way. He's just got like a little bit of gray in his beard. Yeah. And he's like, hello, Belinda. You want to come back to my spider apartment?
01:19:06
Speaker
he goes He beats a woman at the opera. He brings her back to his apartment, which has a big terrarium in it with the spider inside. He is a very good looking man, but he like no effort seduces this lady to come back to his apartment and bow down. Real question. So he's got the spider in his apartment from the Amazon. Is that spider 30 years old or has he been breeding those spiders? I don't know. I didn't even realize it was supposed to be the same spider. I just thought like he was maybe into spiders. It's the same spider. This is mine this is my spider. and gave my superpowers It He would have to have been breeding the spider, right? I don't know how long spiders live. Not 30 years. Matt, I'm no Constance Web, all right? You caught me. I'm no spider scientist.
01:19:59
Speaker
Spider lifespan.
01:20:02
Speaker
up to 20 years for some. It was just a baby when I got it in Peru. So anyway, he and this lady spend the night together and He starts talking about how he keeps having these visions about these three teenagers killing him, and we see a vision. He he has a bad dream where he looks a little older and his hair is gray like Ezekiel's in the comics, and Spider-Woman 2, Spider-Woman 3, and Aranya show up.
01:20:34
Speaker
and murder him. And fully just take his ass out, which is pretty great. Which is not what superheroes do. No. it's but um I don't know, man. Maybe Matty Franklin does get madness from The Gathering of Five. Maybe they throw him out of a window. They team up and throw him out of a window. And this is one of two scenes where they're wearing their costumes, which actually look pretty good, but they're not ready for like a total of one minute. Maybe I said, as we were watching it, I was like, Hey, those costumes look really good because they're actually really good live action interpretations of
01:21:12
Speaker
the the costumes from the comics, like the classic Julia Carpenter costume. um The Aranya costume isn't like the classic Aranya costume because that was just like a t-shirt, but it looks good. And Matty Franklin is not just wearing like Spider-Man's costume, but it's it's ah it's a good looking suit. the The Julia Carpenter one looks honestly like really good. Yeah, ah but they are not in the movie very much. So he has this dream about them murdering him and he wakes up And he starts telling the woman he brought home about this and saying that like he keeps having visions of these girls trying to kill him. And also the NSA is after him. And then she turns out to be an NSA agent. He wants to find them. And she's like, how are you going to find these girls that you know are going to try and kill you in the future? And he's like, I'm going to use the technology that the NSA is working on.
01:22:09
Speaker
And she's like, oh shit, he seduced me at the opera because I work for the NSA. And then he shoots poison into her veins. Yes. And she dies and he takes her like NSA. Oh, and he gets her to say like secret NSA codes with no, no, like zero persuasion at all. She just gives it up immediately. Here's what's weird is like, he didn't have to fuck her. You know? That was just for Ezekiel. Ezekiel or freak?
01:22:45
Speaker
ah
01:22:48
Speaker
We see Cassie get on a train in the next scene. She gets on a train. ah she gets a She gets a call from Uncle Ben. of pre-Uncle Ben about how O'Neill's funeral is coming is like today. And he's like, look, I know it's going to be really hard for you because you've been so fucked up about this. But it would mean a lot to his widow who you also know and are friends with, if you would show up to the funeral, which is in Poughkeepsie.
01:23:20
Speaker
Yeah. She's getting on shit she's watching Christmas carol on TV. Yes. Yes. And it is bright and sunny outside. And she's been running around in short sleeves for this entire time. And the part of Christmas Carol that she's watching is the end where ah Scrooge is talking to the ghost of, uh, of Christmas yet to come and says, spirit, are these shadows of things that may be all shadows of things that will be. And she gets up and goes, sorry, Scrooge, but you can't change anything, which
01:24:04
Speaker
First of all, implies that she's never seen the end of A Christmas Carol. Yeah, she doesn't know how that story ends. Which is wild to watch that movie, presumably assuming that it's just about how this guy sucks. Merry Christmas from this guy. Also, this leads her to test whether she can change things, because she sees a vision of a bird flying into her window. So she opens the window. And the bird flies into her apartment and she does this really bad reaction, non-reaction to the bird flying in. and She goes, this won't change anything. And opens the window and then the bird flies in and she goes, ah. and But then she realizes that she can actually save lives through her visions. so Like the bird. So she gets on the train.
01:25:02
Speaker
She's going on her way to O'Neill's funeral, and suddenly she sees all three of these teenage girls get on the train as well. And she has a vision of Ezekiel showing up and chokeslamming them to hell? Yes. he She envisions him killing all of them. And there also there's a guy on the train with a PSP, which is hilarious. He's like, there's a New York's getting crazier and crazier every day! And also a guy sits next to her and says, am I on the right train? And she's like, I don't fucking know. Again, very realistically, kind of a shitty person thing. She's mean to that guy multiple times. Yeah, actually, he's like, is this the train to I forget where he's not Vernon. That was a good amount Vernon. Yeah, he's good. Is this the train about Vernon? And she goes, I hope not.
01:25:55
Speaker
and he leaves. Yeah, and then there's an announcement over the speaker that's like, train to Mount Vernon is not this one, buddy. Anyway, Ezekiel, she sees visions of Ezekiel killing the girls. She she she goes up with the girls and she goes, you gotta get off this train right now, or you're gonna die. And they go, are you threatening us? And she's like, no, no, no, but somebody's gonna kill you, so you gotta get off the train. And so Ezekiel is approaching, ah through the train, they get off the train. she she She goes like, this is an emergency situation we need to leave.
Cassie's Struggles and Ezekiel's Antagonism
01:26:28
Speaker
But she never goes like, I'm an EMT, or I'm a first responder, which yeah, 2003 New York, I think would maybe carry some weight. I don't know. Yeah. But they they
01:26:40
Speaker
get off the train, they go out onto the platform, and the train starts leaving, and Ezekiel's like looking at them through the window, and Cassie is holding Maddie's skateboard, and Maddie's like, give me about my skateboard, give me back my skateboard. And Cassie's like, no, you need to listen to me. Are you trying to kidnap us? Yes, and at that time, Julia like calls out, like this lady's trying to kidnap us. Cassie kind of explains herself, but not really. And then they go get on the train to Mount Vernon and are gonna try to leave that way, but Ezekiel attacks that train too. And we hear the intercom of the like the conductor of that train being killed. In a... Ezekiel shows up and he is wearing a full-ass Spider-Man costume. With reversed colors, yeah.
01:27:39
Speaker
eat I mean, it looks like Miles's costume. Yeah, it does. He's wearing a Miles Morales Spider-Man costume with the fucking Spider-Man eyes. Mind-boggling. That's not what spider eyes look like. You wouldn't wear that unless you were designing Spider-Man's costume.
01:27:58
Speaker
um Unbelievable. I was so mad. I wish they would have been like, he's like Spider-Man from that movie that came out last year.
01:28:07
Speaker
starring Tobey Maguire. Starring Tobey Maguire and Kirsten Dunst. So the they managed to evade Ezekiel. At one point ah Cassie almost gets arrested for kidnapping, but they they managed to get out of there and then she steals a taxi and takes the girls to some the woods in New Jersey somewhere. Yeah. Did you just got plenty of woods? She drives the cab into the woods. It's like parked in the woods. Yeah, man. On the dirt road, into the woods. And they have this conversation in the woods about how Ezekiel's trying to kill them, Cassie can see the future, and they've all met each other before.
01:29:04
Speaker
And it's like an attempt to be funny, but not it's not. Yeah. and and And then she's like, hey, all you girls stay here in the woods. And they're like, we're hungry. Can you bring us some food? And Cassie's like, no. No, I don't like kids. She goes, and back to her apartment, goes through her mom's stuff, gets out her journal where her mom has like really cool drawings of spiders. yeah and is like, she reads it out loud in a way that suggests that Dakota Johnson isn't a strong reader. Right. Or is at least playing Cassie Webb as not a strong reader, which is very funny. ah But she learns from the journal that the spider, the Bites of the Spider grant powers. The Bites of the Spider grant powers. So she tries to climb the wall and
01:30:04
Speaker
It doesn't work. And it's the funniest part of the movie. Yeah. So she goes through all this and she's like, Oh, I guess I need to go to Peru. Well, not yet. First, the girls are like, we're starving. So they walk through the woods and find a diner. And ah they go into the diner and they order so much fucking food. They order the the three tiniest women I've ever seen in my life. order at least six plates of food at this diner and then say that they're going to have pie. It's so much food. Yeah. And they also notice some teenage boys sitting in the corner and they're like, we should go talk to them. In Midtown High uniforms. Yes. With basketball uniforms. Again, they are in New Jersey. They are in Church Hill, New Jersey.
01:31:07
Speaker
And yet the Midtown High students are here. So there's a guy in the diner reading the Daily Bugle and he sees that there have been reports of these three girls having been kidnapped. So he goes and calls 911 to report it. Yeah. I only just now realized this while I was thinking about the scene. How long has it been?
01:31:34
Speaker
How long has it been? Because I kind of felt like it was the same day. Like, how long were those girls out in the woods waiting for for Cassie, who said we should stay here, to come back? Because the Daily Bugle has put out its next edition. Yeah, I mean, it has to have been overnight. Yeah, like, no wonder. Like, you can't leave children. Cassie, you're a paramedic. You should know you can't leave children in the woods for 24 hours with no food. And yet, and yet she did. So he calls in that they're here. These girls are here. And Ezekiel intercepts the call because I guess the and NSA technology allowed him to do that. And ah he like pretends to be the police that they're dispatching to this diner and goes to find them.
01:32:28
Speaker
Cassie gets a vision that they're gonna be killed in the diner. So she gets in her taxi cab and starts rushing back to the diner to try to save them. So here is the scene where Toxic is playing, where the girls are like in the diner dancing on the table and stuff, and Cassie's rushing to try to save them, and Ezekiel's on the way to them too. And a few different versions of this scene play out. in like pre-visions where first like the girls are killed and then in another one Cassie shows up to save them but gets stabbed and killed and then finally the version that happens is Cassie drives the taxi into the diner and hits Ezekiel and the girls manage to get out but Cassie gets some like spider venom in her hand that's painful
01:33:27
Speaker
Cause it, cause later when we see Cassie driving the girls away again, she looks down at her hand and goes, Oh, she's doing like, we know it's painful. Cause she's doing like that family guy bit with the skin knee where she's like, ah, yeah. And then at one point like she does that. And one of the, I think it's Maddie Franklin goes, here you are. And she's like, I'm fine.
01:33:54
Speaker
She also yells at these girls for going to get food when they were hungry. She yells at the girls for for dancing on the table and not keeping a low profile? Yeah. Which legit, but also, Cassie, you left us with no food.
01:34:13
Speaker
Yeah, like what did you expect them to do? Julia, who ah had taken her glasses off to flirt with the boys, puts her glasses back on because she has been yeah chastised. The party's over. So she takes these girls to a hotel and they're going to hole up in this hotel. And the funny bit here is that she makes the three girls sleep in one bed and Cassie gets a bed to herself. Which is so funny. You three sleep there. I want this bed just for me. I don't like kids. I need a whole bed to myself. This movie is too long already and the future vision stuff makes it longer. I would love to see the scene where they're like, so are we going to bed? And she's like, no.
01:35:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's the scene I want is where she explains to the girls that they have to all sleep in the same bed so she can have a bed to herself. I need my sleep. I, I'm used to sleeping by myself. I can't sleep with other people. and I'm also going to put on some white noise. I have to wear a mask as well. And please don't turn on the TV because it's distracting to me. I like the idea of of Cassie rocking her fucking CPAP. and it's like Yeah, that's why I had to go back to my apartment. So Cassie has another vision dreaming that night. And because of that vision, she's like, I have to go to Peru. So she calls, you she gets up, she opens up the window so that there's sunlight directly on the bed, then she just turns on the clock radio, very loud, without saying anything.
01:36:04
Speaker
Right. She doesn't say anything. She's just shitty to these girls. you know And she says, uh, I have to go to Peru. So I called my friend to come get you. And so Ben Parker shows up and he's like, Cassie, I don't know what's going on. And Cassie's just like, just take them back to Ben is staying with Mary. So she's like, just take them back to Mary's. And I gotta go do what I gotta do. And so Cassie gets in her stolen taxicab. Which now has, like, pretty notable front end damage from driving through the diner. Yes. She's also wanted for kidnapping. And somehow she gets a flight to Peru. we And we don't we don't see any of that. And you were like, I cannot wait to see how she gets to Peru.
01:36:57
Speaker
And it's just a cut. It's just a screw. Fucking smash cut. It's how she gets through. And I was like, mad respect. Editing is how she got to Peru. Don't bother showing us the boring shit, even if it doesn't make any sense. I love that. So in Peru, she is immediately approached by the dude who delivered her when she was born. which in the captions, this guy's name is given as Santiago, which he would not have a Spanish name if he was a native of this Peruvian tribe, but whatever. I mean, maybe, I don't know. Whatever. He also hasn't aged and he also kind of sounds like Senor Kargich. Yes, he does. Anyway, he explains to her how she
01:37:50
Speaker
has these powers to see the future that she has because they had the spider bite her mother when she was born. And also they do the Dr. Strange thing where they like, he like pushes her and her soul comes out of her body. yeah He doesn't do like a cool palm strike, like, uh, like the ancient one though. He just like shows her. So it's a lot funnier. Yeah. Um, yeah. And i wish she would have been, I wish when he was like, yeah, we'd had the spider bite your mother while she was pregnant. And so you didn't get all the same powers that Ezekiel has. I wish she would have been like, like blade from the upcoming movie blade Trinity.
01:38:30
Speaker
So not only does she get an explanation of her powers and how like she could maybe be in different places at the same time, She also learns about how her mother was researching spiders to try to find a cure for the neuromuscular disease that she was gonna be born with. Yeah, she was going to be born with a genetic neuromuscular condition. And in the greatest line read of all time. It's unbelievable. That became a meme. This is the one that should have been, she goes, but I don't have a neuromuscular
01:39:10
Speaker
disease. Yeah, it's perfect. It is so deadpan, so flat, so emotionless. So first time I have seen these words, I am in the booth, it is 9 45am. And I do not want to be here. And then she sees that ah her mother was trying to research spiders to prevent her from, like, having this debilitating condition. And she sees that her mom, like by getting bit by that spider, like she doesn't have any of the effects of it. So she's like, you did it. Mom, you did it. And like she and her mom hug, and it is the height of comedy. It is so unintentionally funny. It is. It is.
01:40:11
Speaker
it's hard to believe it's not intentionally funny. ah Yes, yes. Because it does kind of feel like a a scene from Succession where it is just intensely intentionally and intensely awkward.
01:40:28
Speaker
So that's it for Cassie in Peru. Meanwhile- Yeah, to the extent we see her, she is driving that stolen taxi with front end damage and no license plate. Yes. She does take the license plate off at some point. you know, the only identifying mark a New York taxi cab would have all right driving it back to Uncle Ben's house. So Ben is at Mary's and the girls are also there and they're watching I Know What You Did Last Summer, which is also not a new movie, but they're watching it on TV. So it's fun' watching it on TV. They're watching know HBO 2. Maybe I don't know. Mary walks in as they're watching the movie and she goes, either I just peed myself or my water broke.
01:41:11
Speaker
And Ben's like, the baby's not due for another month. Clearly you just paid yourself. And then she starts going into contractions and clearly like she is having the baby now. he does He's not that mean about it. Yeah. Um, so they have to like get in Ben's car, which for a second I thought was the classic from the Raimi, every Sam Raimi movie, but including the Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies. Yeah. It's not the classic. It's not a Delta 88, but it's a very similar car. So they get in Ben's car and start rushing toward the hospital. Cassie arrives not long after them and sees that they're gone and also sees the water on the floor, just there on the floor. Nasty asses. Four of you, not one of you could have cleaned that up. Nasty. Bad house guests.
01:42:06
Speaker
Bad house guest. I really wanted them to be driving around and for us to just cut to Thomas Hayden Church like watching that car.
01:42:16
Speaker
But the cab... For some reason she can't leave with the cab. I guess because it's just blocked in or something? I guess it's blocked in because there's an ambulance that has arrived. Yeah, so there's an ambulance that arrives. We don't know why the ambulance is there, but Cassie steals that. Because they're driving Mary to the hospital. Because at first you thought you were like, is that ambulance for Mary? And I was like, well, no, they're driving her to the hospital, so maybe they would have called one, but Ben being an EMT, he would have waited for the ambulance, I'm sure. yeah So in my headcanon, that ambulance was there for ah Mary Jane's mom and RIP to a real one. Yeah, it was it was the negligence of Ben and Mary Park, or it was the negligence of Cassie Webb that led to the death of ah Mary Jane Watson's mom.
01:43:11
Speaker
So she takes the ambulance. It's Anna's husband, because she's also a widow. Maybe, maybe. Either way, she steals the ambulance and takes off. Ezekiel has caused a traffic snarl ah as Ben and Mary and the girls are trying to go to the hospital, because he's going to try to kill the girls inside Ben's car. and they're like stopped in the middle of an intersection and he's on top of a billboard. He like jumps down and starts like threatening them and attacking their car. Cassie shows up in the ambulance and drives through the billboard and hits Ezekiel with the ambulance. And again, this ambulance is heavily damaged in this and yet she can still drive it.
01:44:06
Speaker
It does conk out a little bit later, but in a way where it's like she just turns it off and is like, well, that's it for the ambulance. Yeah. So the girls get in the ambulance with her. Ben and Mary just leave for the hospital and Cassie tells them like, get foot as far away from us as you can. He won't chase you. He's trying to chase them. So they take off in the ambulance. Cassie remembers that there's a building full of fireworks. Industrial grade fireworks? Yes. That has not been cleared out or had any changes made since the recent fire? Not a thing. Not a thing.
Climactic Battle at Fireworks Factory
01:44:49
Speaker
So they lead Ezekiel to this building full of fireworks.
01:44:54
Speaker
And it's literally fireworks. Like, it's not just explosives, it's literally fireworks. This movie ends at a fireworks factory. When you said that, that is when I was like, hang on, does this movie rule actually? This movie that literally at the climax gets to the fireworks factory. Does this movie maybe rule at least a little bit? A couple of things worth noting here, Cassie, before they abandoned the ambulance, Cassie calls in an emergency at the fireworks factory so that a medical helicopter will show up there. And also earlier in the movie, Cassie taught the girls CPR in a very long scene. In a very long scene where she's like, here's how you do CPR. And this is this is the correct way to do it.
01:45:47
Speaker
and you were like, it's gonna be wild if that never comes back. And I was, I said, oh no, Cassie's gonna die, and they're going to all trade off doing CPR to bring her back to life. Because that's predictable, but if that doesn't happen, then this scene is fully bananas to be in this movie. Yeah, I just, I had a feeling that this was gonna be one of those movies where like, There is something obviously being set up in a scene like that, and then it just never pays off. But they do pay it off. They do pay it off. um So they go to the fireworks factory. There's a big fight in the fireworks factory. Stuff's going off, exploding. They go up to the roof. There's a fight on the roof. There's a giant Pepsi Cola sign on the roof, neon Pepsi Cola sign. They're fighting on that for a long time.
01:46:40
Speaker
The sign, there's like debris falling from the sign, the sign is falling. ah Finally, oh, and there's, the the helicopter shows up to help them, but Ezekiel bats away a firework and it hits the helicopter and the helicopter crashes. It explodes. He falls off the building and the P, the the smaller P from the Betsy sign falls on him and crushes him to death.
01:47:13
Speaker
then oh, and there's also a bit there's a bit where all it seems like all three of the teenage girls are gonna die. And Cassie makes three projections of herself that saves them all. And yeah at one point, and and at one point, Ezekiel's like, you can't possibly save them all. And, and she does. Yeah. And so she shoots out like little webs from her body. But like each one terminates in like a little puppet body, which is weird and not really what she does? It's not what Madame Webb does, no. Yeah. So anyway, ah Ezekiel gets crushed by the sign, by the P from the sign. Cassie also falls off into the water
01:48:10
Speaker
And she's like floating in the water for a minute. The the S from the sign knocks her into the water. And at one point a firework comes down to the water and just hits her in the face. Julia dives into the water, pulls her out. They all do CPR on her to bring her back. And she opens her eyes and they're like, you know, blind person in a movie eyes.
01:48:40
Speaker
now. And immediately after that, we cut to Cassie in the hospital, apparently having been cleared of the kidnapping charges and for stealing a taxicab and an ambulance and doing a massive arson at a fireworks factory.
Resolution and Future Hints
01:49:00
Speaker
ah They got, they, I'm sure they pinned that on Ezekiel. I don't know. Colombo's not showing up to investigate this one. Oh, also, before we see Cassie in the hospital, we see Mary having given birth at the hospital, and they just talk about how the baby is perfect. Both Mary and Ben say that this baby is perfect. And Ben is the one who is present for Peter's birth, which is wild, but they never say Peter's name. No. You said something like- I wanted them to say, I wanted them to be like, and we did pick out a name.
01:49:39
Speaker
This is our new baby, Spider-Man. This is, this is our new, our new baby, Ben Riley. You've been named after two of the most of the bravest men I've ever known. Oh yeah. So then we, Cassie's in the hospital. She's got like bandages over her eyes and she's talking to the girls and now she's, she's a nurse comes into the room and she goes, are you a immediate family? And Cassie says, yes, they are. They're mine. So she's adopted to these three girls. Yeah. she's decided that And then in case you didn't, it's like they, they had two options and they were just like, fuck it. Let's put both of them in here. Because the next thing that she says is, uh, like Maddie goes, Hey, do you need anything? And she goes, no, I've got everything I need right here. And I just wanted her to be like,
01:50:38
Speaker
Cool. Um, but in a more real sense, like I'm going to the vending machines. Yeah. Do you want a Pepsi? Oh, sorry. Sorry. Oh, oh, I'm so sorry. And she'd be like, no, that's okay. I do want a delicious Pepsi. I don't blame Pepsi for this. I could never, I could never blame Pepsi for this delicious taste that I would rather be blind than not have Pepsi. and listen to some great music on Sony Columbia Records. Then there's one last scene of Cassie in her wheelchair and her like new Madam Web sunglasses looking out the window. And she's like living in an apartment with ah Julia and Anya and Maddie.
01:51:37
Speaker
And we see like a glimpse of their future where they're in costume and Cassie's like floating there behind them as like an astral projection, like leading them. And that's the end of the movie. There is no post-credit sequence. No gathering of five. Alright Chris, you already mentioned that you had a high point for this movie, so what what are your high points for Madam Web? Yeah man, I quite liked the ah the costumes. I liked some of the costumes. Well, I liked those three costumes in particular. Yeah. ah The Spider-Man costume that Ezekiel is wearing made me angry in a way that it shouldn't. that That I understand is irrational, but still was quite frustrating for me.
01:52:28
Speaker
This is one of the rare movies where the best costumes were superhero costumes. Yeah. Cause the regular costumes that the characters wear is like their regular clothes. I hate, I hate Cassie's red jacket jeans outfit. That's like knock off Jessica Jones, which apparently, uh, the director of this movie as Jay Clarkson just straight up compared Cassie to Jessica Jones in an interview. I mean, like yeah, like ah that makes sense given the movie, but it's also like Jessica Jones has like a reason to be kind of misanthropic.
01:53:10
Speaker
yeah But Cassie just sucks. Cassie's just kind of like a shitty friend. yeah um Adam Scout was fine. but Despite me making fun of their the voices that they use to deliver this dialogue. um the The girls were all fine. I mean, like, you can tell high points is really stretching it when I'm just like, Oh, this was fine. You you know what, I we talked about the needle drops. Despite them not exactly being timely, I thought they're good songs. yeah know the set I that they played Dreams by the Cranberries at the end. um And you know what? You know what? It's actually a little bit weird and cloying when a movie is set in an earlier year.
01:54:02
Speaker
to have like every song be a song from that year? Because in the real 2003, people were still listening to music from the 90s. Yeah, it's just weird that it would be on the radio all the time, because all the diegetic music we get is on the radio. Yeah, it is. But like I think it's more believable than when like the only music in a movie from sent in a particular year is from that year. you know Yeah, I guess. Sure. oh i like I like all the songs. The Dreams by the Cranberries is the closing credits song of this movie. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Like, it's not like... It's just a song they liked and wanted to use. Which, you know, that's fair. If I was making a movie, I'd probably put just a song I liked in it too. Do you have any high points, Matt? Man, it's tough. Because I feel like so many elements of this movie I have a love-hate relationship with.
01:55:05
Speaker
You know, like, I sort of love the fact that the camera work is so kind of, like, weird and and overactive, but I also kind of hate it. yeah Yeah, like, it is a boring movie that it feels like someone tried to make it not boring, and I do respect that. And I actually, like, enjoyed the visual style. I don't hate it, but at times it was... Distracting.
01:55:39
Speaker
Some of that like crash-zooming went away in the middle, it but it was really evident at the beginning and the end. and Every time Cassie's driving an ambulance, that is they try to shoot that so dynamically. I actually kind of love that, where it's like, Cassie is shown as being heroic by driving in this movie.
01:56:06
Speaker
All right, Chris, what have we got for low points? You didn't mention it at any point in the review, uh, that we did Matt, but there is a part of this movie where Santiago says that once Cassie has accepted her great responsibility, she will attain great power. And we both went, that doesn't, but that doesn't work as well. Like that's not the, that's not the cool line you think it is. That, it's, yes. I actually think, well, I'll save this for final thoughts, but the inversion of great power, great responsibility that somebody thought was very clever, in fact sucks. Bad. like Yeah. it it You think it's like a clever inversion, but in fact, what you've written is nonsense.
01:56:58
Speaker
Yeah, what you have like you have written a thing that doesn't mean anything unless we know about this other thing, and even then doesn't really mean anything. Yeah, it's just a wink. You've written a thing that doesn't mean anything unless we know about a thing that makes that thing not make sense. Yeah. Dakota Johnson. Dakota Johnson, okay. She's such a low point. She's so obviously Disinterested in being in this movie She's so clearly She's so clearly checked out throughout the making of it her acting is so bad that it circles back around to being You can't take your eyes off of it you can't It's so fascinating
01:57:50
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, ah she she does loop back around to being like I said, this movie is not good, but it's it's an enjoyable kind of bad to watch, I think. Yeah. oh And I don't I don't want to say that Dakota Johnson isn't trying. But I mean, you did. earlier Yeah, but only because it's it is impossible for us to know that, you know? Yeah. It, I hope, I hope she's not trying because like, you know, when we watched Suicide Squad and I talked about how depressing it is and what like a miserable experience it is watching Jared Leto in that movie and knowing that he's trying so hard for that result. Like,
01:58:44
Speaker
It's like it bums me out. Yeah. I described it as like watching a child fail at a talent show. I hope Dakota Johnson's not trying. Because the alternative is that she is trying and this is the result and that's kind of a bummer. But boy oh boy, the end result is a performance that is never not, I am watching Dakota Johnson pretend to be Cassie Webb.
01:59:15
Speaker
You mentioned Adam Scott being pretty good. I also think Emma Roberts is fine as Mary. Everybody else is bad. Barely in the movie. Barely in the movie, yeah. um Everybody else is bad. I thought the girls were pretty good. They were fine. They were fine, yeah. the some Tahar Rahim is dubbed throughout the movie. he's like There's kind of nothing to Ezekiel. you know lake Much like Dakota Johnson, like there were several points in this movie where you said, that was the best take. That's the one they went with. And it's like, if you're going to dub a guy through the whole movie, why would you make him sound like that? It's a great question. It's a great question. Is it to get that
02:00:08
Speaker
to that 2003 feeling by giving us new character from 2003 sent our card gauge. Could be. From the Strong Bad email, kind of cool. It's also just like a mess. Oh yeah, like the the a Cassie going to Peru with no explanation. I fucking love it. But it is it is a full like It is a, it is a plot hole in the classic sense. And it is kind of endemic of everything that happens in this movie. Also, all the future vision stuff is genuinely disjointed, which again, I think was the intent, but makes it. It's a, it's an easy movie to watch and a difficult movie to pay attention to. It's a mess. That's the only way I can put it. It is an absolute mess.
02:01:07
Speaker
All right, Chris, what are our final thoughts about Madam Web? As I said, I would watch the shit out of a Spider-Woman Netflix original. Yeah. It's it's yeah honestly, a lot of it does actually loop back around to at least being enjoyable and not in a, it's not like so bad it's good. it's It's bad in at least an interesting way. Well, it's like I said. One of these people seems like she does not care that there are cameras running. The plot is a mess. There's dudes fully dressed like Spider-Man. Much like Suicide Squad when you brought up Suicide Squad and Super Mario Brothers, the movie, what fascinates me about this movie and makes it an interesting watch for me
02:02:02
Speaker
is thinking about what it went into making the choices that were made. Because they're inscrutable. oh yeah yeah Why is Cassie like that? Yeah. Why why did they decide? like Obviously, the arc of the movie is that is is a found family arc. Yeah. But like, why did they make Cassie kind of like, why are there so many details about Cassie being kind of a shitty person? Here's my theory. Here's my theory. And it all comes back to- Leave your mail on the floor? She just leaves her mail for other people to clean up. Here's my theory, okay? And it's all based on the inverted great power, great responsibility.
02:02:55
Speaker
I think the entire thought process of this movie and basis for this movie is to make it an anti-Spider-Man movie. Okay. And the Spider-Man movies are generally pretty good? There's that. But what's Peter like when we first meet him? um he's ah He's a nerd. He's a nerd, but he's a good kid who's trying to do right. He gets bullied. He's he's ah actually got a surprising number of friends to be such a nerdy kid. And you like him. You like Peter Parker. And I'm talking about Movie Peter. I'm not talking about original Ditko Peter. Who's kind of a... Who can be hard to like? Kind of a real Ayn Rand reading weirdo in a lot of ways. Yeah. But like Movie Peter is a good kid, right?
02:03:56
Speaker
I think every effort was made to make Cassie the opposite of that. So that we could watch her become a good person at the end. Yeah. Yeah. But like, but like she, I don't know, man, it's that's, that's a, that's a bad, that's a risky strategy to make. Oh, I know.
02:04:19
Speaker
To, to actively make a, character that has so many unlikable traits, standing expecting to rally behind her as a hero. They did the inversion of Great Power, Great Responsibility. They also did it and the inversion of the famous scene from Spider-Man 2 with the kids drawing. Oh, with the like, you know, ah we won't tell nobody with that one? Yeah.
02:04:51
Speaker
Like, and I get why they would do that, because like, Tony Stark's kind of like unlikable, right? Like, he's an arms dealer. Not in the same way, but yeah. But not in the same way. Like, there's nothing. Tony Stark doesn't leave his mail on the floor in his apartment lobby. And Tony Stark, like, if Tony Stark gets invited to a ah to a baby shower. He just tells Pepper, send them a Bjorn or whatever. He doesn't say, I don't want to get roped in. Yeah, he's he's just very invested in his work. And like, it's not that he totally lacks morals, but he's got bad morals at the start of the movie. And so he's got an arc
02:05:45
Speaker
Cassie's just... to Cassie has no morals. Cassie is just like... Like, i I asked, like, why is she an EMT because she hates people? Cassie... Like, why was that the job she chose? Cassie strongly identifies with Ebenezer Scrooge. Yeah. Prior to him... but Prior to the end of A Christmas Carol. Yeah. Which is wild. Like someone wrote that and, and was like, yeah. And then she says like, you can't change anything, but then like, she's going to learn different. But you, do you understand that you wrote her identifying with, with act one Scrooge, like, or, or, or at least pre reform Scrooge. Yeah. Yeah.
02:06:41
Speaker
cat like Cassie would probably save Tiny Tim, but then when he was like, God bless us, everyone, she'd be like, I don't want to fucking deal with this kid. but Like Bob Cratchit would be like, come to our house. And she'd be like, no, no, no. I i don't i don't want to get roped in. It's weird, man. It's weird. All right. That's it for our episode about Madam Web. We hope you enjoyed it. We'll be back. You should watch it, honestly. You should watch it. You should watch it. You should watch it. Put it on. Don't sit down and watch it, but put it on while you're playing a video game. Or watch it with a friend. I think it will be the most fun watch with people you know where you can laugh about it. Yeah.
02:07:36
Speaker
um But anyway, we'll be back in August with another movie.
Listener Engagement and Support
02:07:41
Speaker
We might watch Blue Street. We might watch Blue Street for my birthday. I think we should. I think we should watch Blue Street. I think that's a good idea. If you have a suggestion for a movie or you want to get in touch with us otherwise, email us at moviefighterscast at gmail.com. We're on Tumblr at moviefighterscast.tumblr.com. Also, you can contribute to this show and to the other shows we do by going to patreon dot.com slash war rocket Ajax. ah We would really appreciate ah your support if you ah can support us over there on patreon. So ah head over to patreon dot.com slash war rocket Ajax and help us out there if you can. matt you want to find and said Thank you for your support. Was that Bartles and James? I think it was. Yeah. and Okay.
02:08:33
Speaker
If you want to find me and my stuff, go to MattDWilson.net to find links to everything. Chris, where can people find you? Right here on Movie Fighters and more Rocket Ajax. It's the place to be. It's the place to be. so place to be ah Folks, that does it for this one. ah stay Stay out of the river because when you drown, it will activate your latent future seeing powers, which even though a spider bit you, when despite her bit your mom when she was actively giving birth to you your powers didn't kick in for another 30 years all all documented all true ah many such cases bye everybody keep on fighting keep on fighting