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Episode 139: VS Kraven the Hunter
583 Plays4 days ago
Listen, we're not going to try to create some false mystery about whether 2024's Kraven the Hunter was good or not. It sucks. But which two parts made Chris and Matt laugh so hard they cried?
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Setup
00:00:00
Speaker
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Speaker
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Movie Fighters Introduction
00:01:03
Speaker
Ring the bell, Hunter? This is Movie Fighters, the show where Chris Sims and I, Matt Wilson, we watch movies, and we beat them up.
00:01:16
Speaker
We are recording this on the day after my birthday, and I am already regret regretting the decision watch. 2024's Kraven the Hunter. Matty birthday. Happy birthday, Matt.
Spider-Man Spinoff Dilemmas
00:01:35
Speaker
You should love this, Matt. You love Spider-Man, and all the characters in Spider-Man are equally good. That's right. every they should all They're all equally deserving of having movies and equally interesting as protagonists.
00:01:48
Speaker
Listen, I don't want to blow up anybody's spot here. But when this movie was out in theaters, I made that point where I was just like, you cannot do a bunch of Spider-Man movies without Spider-Man.
00:02:02
Speaker
yeah It just doesn't make any sense at all. And someone who should know better responded, and no it's just that the movies are bad.
00:02:14
Speaker
It's just that the movies are bad. Buddy, I guess if the movies were amazingly good, it would be a different story. But like most people don't know if Kraven the Hunter is good or not because they didn't see it because they don't want to go see a movie about just Kraven the Hunter.
00:02:34
Speaker
Here's the thing.
Hollywood's Misconception Post-Iron Man
00:02:36
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's technically physically possible to make a Kraven the Hunter movie that would be good. Like, it it could happen.
00:02:47
Speaker
i don't i don't think it is impossible. well i think it's difficult and unlikely. People got fucked up by Iron Man.
00:03:01
Speaker
Yes, yes. That Iron Man was a good and successful movie. And that made Hollywood people think that anybody from comics can be the the lead character in a movie.
00:03:14
Speaker
But, okay, yes, Iron Man was not an A-list superhero. He was not a top-tier superhero. He's a bigger deal now because of the movie, but at the time, not a top-tier superhero.
00:03:30
Speaker
However, he was still a protagonist. Still a protagonist is the thing. He was still protagonist. I'll tell you people got fucked up by Iron Man. Sony in particular got fucked up by Venom.
00:03:44
Speaker
Very much so. Because they made a Venom movie and everybody was like, hey, this one's actually good. But Venom is also a protagonist. But Venom is also a protagonist. Like, I cannot imagine the work you would have to do to to transition Kraven into being a protagonist, independent of the existence Spider-Man.
00:04:12
Speaker
Because, here's the thing, he hunts people for sports. Yeah. So, like, so, like, but, like, yeah, you can do it, but,
00:04:26
Speaker
But you know that traditionally the person who hunts people for sport, not the good guy.
Sony's Sinister Six Plans Discussion
00:04:31
Speaker
like People were like, oh, Avengers worked. They did all these individual movies. Then they had them teamed up team up. And then they did a team movie, and that was the big one. And then they got bigger and bigger. And I know that the thought process for all of these movies was...
00:04:47
Speaker
We'll do all these individual movies about the Sinister Six, and then we'll have a Sinister Six movie where they all team up, and I guess fight Spider-Man. But like that Sinister Six movie's going to be a Spider-Man movie, right?
00:05:03
Speaker
I mean, one would think. But i mean I don't think that Sinister Six movie's going to happen. like That was clearly the plan, because we had the Vulture, and he was like...
00:05:15
Speaker
Spider-Man. And that was really good. And then ah bunch other stuff happened.
Impact of Avengers on Film Production
00:05:21
Speaker
But that's the thing of it, right? like It's still shocking that Iron Man worked as well as it did.
00:05:30
Speaker
But Iron Man did, at that point, have 50 years of comics. And they did in 2008. in two thousand and eight And then they did, like, ah like Avengers was, was what, 2012?
00:05:47
Speaker
two thousand and twelve 2012, yeah. 2012. So, like, they did several movies in between. Like, they did a Thor movie, a Captain America movie, and a Hulk movie.
00:06:02
Speaker
Don't forget. Don't forget the Hulk movie. That, like, they then... brought them together, and all of those movies do in fact more or less work on their own.
00:06:15
Speaker
I would say some more so than others, but I like the first Thor movie, the first Captain America movie, and the first Iron Man movie a lot. But like everybody saw that, and then and by everybody I mean like old men in charge of things.
00:06:30
Speaker
And then they were like, well why don't we have an Avengers? And then they made Dracula Untold. And they wanted to have it immediately. And honestly, they made Justice League.
00:06:42
Speaker
And they were like, why can't we have this immediately? And it's like, sorry, you do gotta be kinda patient about it. They did do Man of Steel and Batman v. Superman before Justice League, but even that was like leapfrogging a lot. like Batman v. Superman being the second movie is buck wild. No, it's it's bananas.
00:07:06
Speaker
It doesn't make any sense that the first thing Batman does is fight Superman in his late forty s Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:20
Speaker
Bud. No, this shit makes sense. Anyway, so now we have Kraven.
Kraven the Hunter Critique
00:07:24
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. The weird thing about Kraven is that, like, they could have not done this one. Like, this movie came out after Morbius and Madame Web.
00:07:37
Speaker
They knew it wasn't gonna work. Yeah. You have to assume you have to assume it was too far into production by the time Madame Web came out to stop it.
00:07:47
Speaker
I mean, look, they could have done a Warner Brothers in she and an existing movie and written it off, you know? But they didn't.
00:07:58
Speaker
They released it.
00:08:02
Speaker
This movie was released in December 2024, on December 13th of 2024, on
00:08:09
Speaker
It had a budget of between $110 and $130 million. dollars It made $62 million. That ain't too good.
00:08:19
Speaker
And by March 2025, it was on Netflix. yeah They took whatever dollar amount Netflix would give them, Sony would give them, to put it up on streaming.
00:08:35
Speaker
it's I mean, i guess they did that with Madame Web, too. Madame Web is also on Netflix. I don't know, man. i think that's the last I think this is the last of those Sony trying to do a Sinister Six movies. The third Venom was the last Venom.
00:08:54
Speaker
I think they're going to probably try something else after this, but who knows? The thing that is so unbelievably weird to me is that Morbius, Madame Web, and presumably this movie, have the hubris to be set up.
00:09:19
Speaker
Like, we ran into this with Madame Web. Like, maybe if...
00:09:26
Speaker
Maybe if all of Madame Web had like all the Spider-Women in it, and they did stuff, it would be fun. But instead, they're like, just wait till the next movie. When your favorite characters, Spider-Woman, Spider-Woman, and Spider-Girl.
00:09:40
Speaker
but Actually, I guess it's spideroman spideroman Spider-Woman, and Spider-Woman. And Madame Web. Wait till they're around. And then it's going to it's shit's gonna pop off. And it's like, well, you could have just done that.
00:09:53
Speaker
You could have just made a Spider-Women movie. Yeah. right Like, like do that. Like, yeah yeah.
Behind the Scenes: Director and Actors
00:10:01
Speaker
Anyway, let's talk a little bit about Craven the Hunter.
00:10:05
Speaker
um This movie was directed by J.C. Chandor, who.
00:10:12
Speaker
Wildly, Chris, is also the director of the movie Margin Call. OK. A movie about like people in finance dealing with the 2008.
00:10:26
Speaker
Financial crisis?
00:10:30
Speaker
that is ah That is a career turn. I hope that that plays into why Sergei Kravinov decides to hunt men.
00:10:42
Speaker
Could be. Could be. J.C. Chandor seems to have mostly made before this like
00:10:51
Speaker
movies he wrote and directed that were like... like if not art films, like serious movies.
00:11:03
Speaker
And then, like, he makes Kraven the Hunter didn't write it. Like, I don't want to make assumptions, but, like, you got to assume it's for a payday, right? Like, it's so weird.
00:11:22
Speaker
yeah man. I mean, like, look. Yeah. Take the work. take the work ah The story is by wi Richard Wink, who is... That's gotta to be a fake name.
00:11:34
Speaker
W-E-N-K. Still. He was the writer of Expendables 2 and all three Equalizer movies.
00:11:46
Speaker
Okay. I have not seen any of those, perhaps surprisingly. And the other two credited writers are the writers of Punisher Warzone. Okay. Now that that we have seen.
00:12:01
Speaker
i thought A better movie than its reputation, I feel like. ah Not good. Not good, but better than its reputation. I mean, like... there's There are so many swings and misses on the filmography of Art Markham and Matt Holloway.
00:12:20
Speaker
um They did get a credit for Iron Man, so big ups to them on that. But then Punisher Warzone, Transformers The Last Knight, that's the Mark Wahlberg one, Men in Black International, and the Uncharted movie.
00:12:36
Speaker
Oh, starring Spider-Man. Starring Spider-Man, yeah. i I will say this about Punisher Warzone. I feel like if Lexi Alexander had been allowed to make the completely bananas like cartoon Punisher movie...
00:12:49
Speaker
That I think it's very clear she wanted to make. Like, Looney Tunes That Can Bleed. ah I feel like it would have been a very different and more enjoyable movie.
00:13:02
Speaker
The star of Kraven the Hunter, playing Kraven, is Aaron Taylor Johnson. Who, comics fans... Wait, wait, is that... That's not... That's not Madam Web's... That's not Madam Web's dom.
00:13:20
Speaker
Wait, what?
00:13:22
Speaker
From Fifty Shades. That's not him. Oh, different guy yeah different guy. Different guy. Okay, sorry. yeah You're right. She's she's Johnson. She's Johnson. Right.
00:13:34
Speaker
but they put the two But they both got they got two different people with the last name Johnson star in these bad movies. It is a common name. Aaron Taylor Johnson you will remember as The MCU version of Quicksilver, who died in Age of Ultron.
00:13:55
Speaker
And also kick-ass. He was kick-ass. So that, three swings, three misses at playing a superhero, huh? Yeah, his's his superhero filmography, not so good.
00:14:09
Speaker
But here's the thing. He's good in other movies. Uh-huh. He's in Bullet Train and is very entertaining in Bullet Train. ah He's in the movie Tenet, which is not good, but I remember him being enjoyable in it.
00:14:24
Speaker
And he was, like, at the same time Kraven the Hunter was out in theaters, he was also in Nosferatu, and he's awesome in that movie.
Kraven's Family and Identity
00:14:37
Speaker
Do you think that he was, like, like he was, like, looking at... ah Chris Evans. And he was like, I gotta do two that don't work.
00:14:51
Speaker
I gotta do my Fantastic Four and my The Losers, which honestly is not a bad movie, and Chris Evans is is is Chris Evans in it.
00:15:02
Speaker
and He's like, but then, that third one, when I play Kraven, that's gonna be the one that's good and everybody loves it. The Losers movie is like one of the closest adaptations of comics that I think I've ever seen. Yeah.
00:15:16
Speaker
It's weird because it was out around the same time as that A-Team movie, yeah and is the exact same movie. Well, it's the same premise. Yeah, but it's like the exact same movie.
00:15:31
Speaker
The supporting cast of Kraven the Hunter includes Ariana DeBose, As Calypso Izzeli, she gets a last name.
00:15:44
Speaker
Oh shit, Doom? Doom, Doom, Doom? Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom. Torment Part 104? We doing this? Man, if they adapted Torment, then we'd be on to something.
00:15:56
Speaker
Well, maybe they were setting up the Lizard Solo movie. He's in the Sinister Six. Yeah, that's true. ah But yes, Wilmington North... Wilmington, North Carolina's own Ariana DeBose is Calypso.
00:16:08
Speaker
ah She is mostly, i think, like known as a musical theater person, ah which is interesting. like I think she got famous for being in West Side Story.
00:16:21
Speaker
ah So, that's an interesting choice. A lot of other names I've never seen before. And then Russell Crowe is ah Craven's dad.
00:16:32
Speaker
That's good, because I've always you know i've always said, that there's one thing we don't have enough of in superhero comics and superhero stories and need more of, it's people's dads.
00:16:44
Speaker
Yeah. um I was so happy to see fucking Richard Parker in that Madame Web movie.
00:16:55
Speaker
Well, it's what's extra weird is like... There's already a built-in father-son story with Kraven, with Sergei and... Alexei. Is it Alexei?
00:17:11
Speaker
I think it's Alexei. Or is Alexei Chameleon? Now got to look up what Kraven 2's name was. But like they could have just done that, right? Where there was an original Kraven, who's older, and then...
00:17:27
Speaker
Like, Aaron Taylor Johnson plays the son?
00:17:31
Speaker
Kraven 2? don't want the Huntman father. oh it is Alexei. It is Alexei. Okay, they just go don't know more than one Russian name. yeah There's also Vlad, who's the Grim Hunter.
00:17:46
Speaker
Right. ah But, like... I don't know. But anyway... um On Wikipedia, at least... Russell Crowe's name is like one, two, three, four, five, six.
00:18:02
Speaker
Sixth down. So I don't know how much he's actually in this movie. I do know that Aaron Taylor Johnson is not doing an accent, and Russell Crowe is.
00:18:14
Speaker
it Okay, alright. You're going to Kraven, but you're not going to do an accent? I think the the story, we'll find out, but I think the story is that like he went to like a boarding school in England something.
00:18:28
Speaker
I don't care where he went, Matt. That's bullshit. You're going to tell me, like, I'm not saying you've got to like hobble to the bathroom and pretend you have Morbius disease or whatever, but do the fucking accent, man.
00:18:44
Speaker
This movie also does have Chameleon and Rhino. Great. So, we'll see them, too. Paul Giamatti. back Back in the role that made him famous.
00:18:55
Speaker
I wish, man. like Give me something. Give me something to be like excited about. This has a Rotten Tomatoes score of 16%. That's not good. Critics did not like it.
00:19:09
Speaker
ah Well, I think it's very telling that you and I, Matt, um started this with just complaining. we I don't know if you introduced us. I think we just went right into being grumpy about it.
00:19:22
Speaker
I introduced us. I did. Okay. All right. The AV Club review of this does say that Chantor's movies seem scrambled together. While all the previous movies in this Barely series seem scrambled together in panic, Chantor's movies seem scrambled together with a great deal of confidence and a bit of style.
00:19:39
Speaker
So it's still a mess, but maybe a little bit better of a mess than than some of the other movies. I don't know. We'll see. I did find Madame Web to be a fascinating disaster.
00:19:51
Speaker
So will this at least be interesting? but But certainly a disaster. Yes. I mean, all you have to do is look at the box office to know that.
00:20:04
Speaker
So if you would like to watch along with us, Kraven the Hunter Rated R for strong blood bloody violence in language. That's the other thing. like Why are you going to make a Kraven the Hunter movie and be like, but it's got to be a hard R?
00:20:22
Speaker
I mean, Deadpool. you can't They need someone to explain this to them.
00:20:30
Speaker
ah It's on Netflix. You can watch along with us. ah We're going to fire it up here in a second. So what you're going hear as we watch the movie is a little bit of a musical interlude.
00:20:44
Speaker
And as you hear that, we're going watching the movie. You can pause it and watch along with us if you wish. After that musical interlude, we're going to come back and talk about Kraven the Hunter. craven the
Film's Structural and Plot Failures
00:21:11
Speaker
And we are back from watching Kraven the Hunter, and I'm going to say it, Chris. The critics fucked it on this. This movie is worse than Madam Web.
00:21:25
Speaker
Oh, yeah, no this movie is way worse than Madam Web. this That fucking sucked, dude. That was bad. All right, I'm going to admit it here.
00:21:36
Speaker
We did something we've never done before in Movie Fighters history. We found on Netflix where you could play the movie at 1.25 speed and watched it for 1.25 speed for a good chunk of it. because We made that decision early.
00:21:53
Speaker
It was excruciating to watch at regular speed. It like Madame Web is not a good movie. Madame Web is a bad movie. But it is fascinatingly bad, and it is interesting to see what Dakota Johnson is trying to do, and all of these things.
00:22:11
Speaker
There is virtually nothing interesting about this movie. We'll get to the one interesting thing about it in a little while. But as we continue to watch the movie, because we saw that it was two hours and seven minutes long,
00:22:27
Speaker
Which, for a superhero movie, is not super long, considering that there are superhero movies that are over three hours. But each scene, as the movie progressed, we were like, they could have cut that out.
00:22:41
Speaker
They could have cut that out. They could have cut that out. At first, we were like, this movie could have been 90 minutes. Now I'm like, why did they even make a movie? but Yeah, man. um here's Here's what I'll say.
00:22:56
Speaker
Here's what I'll say, Matt. This movie fucking sucks in literally every way. like Like, as though they had a checklist of how to fuck up a movie.
00:23:10
Speaker
And yet, there were two different moments, one of which made you laugh until you cried, and one of which made me laugh until I cried.
00:23:21
Speaker
yes ah One of those like intentional, one of those not. And there was another one that I had seen before that I think would also have made me have that reaction, but I'd seen it before. Even though my reaction once again to seeing it was, what was that?
00:23:37
Speaker
So, oh we'll get to it. um Yeah, this movie, like everything about it sucks. Well, okay, let's get through it scene by scene. Or, yeah we don't have to go through every scene. but well Yeah, we definitely don't have to go through every scene, because like the first week three times...
00:23:53
Speaker
Like scenes of the film are pointless and useless. So, okay. The first scene of the movie, I think they're trying to do like a James Bond cold open kind of thing.
00:24:06
Speaker
Where Craven is being taken to a Russian prison. It is interminable for him to get there. like Literally, this movie opens and he's on a bus to a Russian prison and they stop so that he can piss.
00:24:22
Speaker
And we watch Kraven piss. Yep. We watch a bunch of dudes piss and then one of them's like, hey, we're juve you're so we're not going to forget you. Are you done pissing yet?
00:24:34
Speaker
So here's what we know about Sergei Kravinov. He takes a while piss. He gets to the prison He tracks down a crime boss, and we know this guy is a crime boss because he has like one of those special cells that has like a TV in it.
00:24:50
Speaker
He's got an office. he's Yeah, he's got like an office. and he like Also, there's some weirdo who Craven's going to be cellmates with, who like you look at him and you're like, is that dude going to turn out to be fucking cardiac or something? And then he doesn't.
00:25:06
Speaker
He does look like he should be, though. He's like playing, he's like, if they made ah TV movie of the life of Richard Keel... And then another network made a TV movie to compete with that TV movie, but they had to make it faster with worse actors.
00:25:26
Speaker
He would play Richard Keel in the second one. I was going to say, he he's like lower tier Jaws yeah without the teeth. was Was fucking Kurgan not available?
00:25:40
Speaker
Hard to say. Hard to say. I know he's French, but he could have faked it. But like... He kills this crime boss and escapes the prison, and we see like his lion powers here a little bit. Now, listener, you might be thinking, I'm sorry, did Matt just say lion powers? Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:01
Speaker
Yes. I did. Yes, he did. um he But like all the special effects of his powers are so shitty. It's like when characters have powers on Arrowverse shows.
00:26:14
Speaker
it's I think it's worse than that. It looks like when like when he's like climbing up a building, it looks like when Toei Spider-Man is climbing up a building. It reminded me, like he climbs up a tree at one point, and you even mentioned this as we were watching it. It looks like when Edward climbs a tree in the Twilight movies.
00:26:32
Speaker
There's a lot of Twilight in this movie. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of like hanging out in the woods, like they hang out in the woods in Twilight. And he climbs a tree exactly like Edward does.
00:26:44
Speaker
There's no other way to say it. It's the skin of a killer, Bella. Yes, that's right. So... Then, after the prison escape sequence, and he kills the mob boss and whatever, and all of the dialogue in that part is in Russian, by the way.
00:26:58
Speaker
It's like the first ten minutes of the movie, not a word of English, until he like gets in his escape truck, and then they speak in English after that. And he quips about it. He's like, oh, but I gotta go the prison.
00:27:15
Speaker
But like... Also, like I said, he does not have a Russian accent. No, he doesn't. He also does not have Aaron Taylor Johnson's actual accent, which is English.
00:27:27
Speaker
Which is weird, because a significant portion of this movie does take place in England. Yes. He has an American accent, because I think we're supposed to think that he went to...
00:27:40
Speaker
boarding school in the United States, because the next scene flashes back 16 years, and we see Sergei and his brother Alexei – or no, not Alexei, Dimitri – Dimitri at school getting picked up by their father, who is Russell Crowe.
00:27:58
Speaker
And they both speak with American accents and have the worst haircuts I've ever seen. They're bad. like This had to be a weird studio note thing, where they were like – k Craven can't have an accent because that won't get over with audiences.
00:28:14
Speaker
I guess. And I feel like that, like, you remember there was a brief period where, like, Canadian wrestlers in w WWE were billed from America?
00:28:31
Speaker
like And unfortunately, the only two that I can think of are are Chris Jericho, who was billed, instead of being from Winnipeg, he was billed as being from ah like ah manhattan from like Manhattan, New York.
00:28:44
Speaker
but we which is Which is where he was actually born. Yeah, but Chris Benoit was billed as being from Atlanta.
00:28:53
Speaker
That's fucking nuts. yeah we Yeah, we ain't claiming that. South ain't claiming that. No, he lived there, but come on. I don't know. it's it's It's so strange. if's There's so many unbelievably weird choices in this movie.
00:29:11
Speaker
But anyway, Russell Crowe tells them that their mother has died. She killed herself because she was weak. Now, this sets up a mystery about who Sergei's mom is.
00:29:25
Speaker
Because we later find out that Dimitri had a different Mom? Yeah. Because he's described as as being Nikolai, Russell Crowe's bastard son.
00:29:41
Speaker
So, Sergei's mom was Nikolai's wife, and Dimitri's mom is someone else. It sets up a mystery of who both of their mothers are.
00:29:55
Speaker
And at one point, the movie even goes out of its way to not give Sergei's mother's name. The villain of the movie, the rhino, gets a dossier, a report Kraven – on craven that lays out information about him, and it says, Father. And then it says, Nikolai Kravinov.
00:30:17
Speaker
And then, for Mother, it says, Deceased Suicide. It does not give her name. And that, I believe, was the time when you said, oh I wonder if there's going to be a reveal who...
00:30:34
Speaker
Craven's mother is. And I said, Matt, it's very charitable of you to assume that this was planned, and not just that women are not important in this film.
00:30:45
Speaker
And of the two of us, you were the one who was right on that one. Yeah, my my cynicism once again paid off. There was absolutely nothing.
00:30:56
Speaker
here's Here's what we learn about ah his mom, who we never see. She she was afraid of spiders. Yeah. Which is genetic, I guess, because Sergei is too.
00:31:09
Speaker
Well, you know, it's it's that. it's Maybe Ezekiel Sims got to her. Maybe he did. Maybe it all connects in the end. ah he was he was He was researching spiders with my mother in the Amazon, after all.
00:31:24
Speaker
Nikolai picks them up and he says, your mother's dead, I'm taking you on a hunting trip. They go to Ghana, and... In that sequence where they go to Ghana, we also meet Calypso, who is... There's just this out-of-nowhere scene where she's being taught by her grandmother about tarot cards.
00:31:49
Speaker
Uh-huh. And... It is merely there to set up a thing where, okay, Nikolai wants to kill what has been called an unkillable lion out here in Ghana.
00:32:07
Speaker
And he wants Sergei to help him do it. And Sergei ends up getting attacked by the lion and, like... is in the lion's mouth. He's waving his mouth around. Sergei gets horribly injured.
00:32:25
Speaker
Calypso approaches, sees Sergei in the lion's mouth. The lion just puts him down and leaves as soon as Calypso appears. Because like there are multiple times where characters seem to have like some kind of mind control over animals that is never discussed fully.
00:32:45
Speaker
But she... gives him like a serum, and then puts a tarot card in his pocket. Then we see him getting revived at the hospital, or them trying to revive him at the hospital. They can't but do it.
00:33:01
Speaker
And then he just kind of magically comes back to life. And now he has lion powers. Yeah, because... Because, like... Somebody...
00:33:15
Speaker
saw the Halle Berry Catwoman movie and was like, that's a good idea, actually.
00:33:25
Speaker
The only problem is they it was some broad and not a strapping young American man like Kraven the Hunter.
00:33:38
Speaker
After he recovers, Kraven breaks ranks with his dad. who We learn he's like a drug crime kingpin kind of character, but we never see him do any of that.
00:33:52
Speaker
He like owns a club, and we see him at his club, and he's like meeting with shady people, but like we never see him doing crime. I mean, yeah, like we are literally told that he does crime and not shown it at all.
00:34:09
Speaker
Yeah, Sergei says, you're a drug dealer, and that's all we ever... yeah Which I didn't think that was his crime. and just Because that comes out like maybe five minutes from the end of this film.
00:34:22
Speaker
yeah Where Craven goes, you're a joke dealer.
Kraven's Vigilante Journey
00:34:25
Speaker
ah But he leaves his dad behind in a scene where he says to his dad, and I'm going to try to recreate the line reading as much as I can.
00:34:38
Speaker
Should have killed you!
00:34:41
Speaker
have killed you!
00:34:43
Speaker
It's
00:34:46
Speaker
Nuts. Anyway. it's It's rough stuff, buddy. ah It's one of those things where it's like, you're like, you know you could have done a second take.
00:35:01
Speaker
Like, there's no way that was the best take. they They definitely did multiple takes, and somebody was like, that one. It should been you!
00:35:13
Speaker
Woof. So if you're wondering if I shouted that at Matt like 18 times over the course of watching this movie, the answer is yes. so they So then we cut my head. You know what it is? It's exactly like when Nikki Bella told Brie, wish you died in the womb!
00:35:31
Speaker
It's exactly like that. Sorry that I keep bringing up professional wrestling, but man, it is exactly like that. it it You are entirely right. It it is exactly like that.
00:35:44
Speaker
ah So then we flash forward 16 years, and now Sergei is a vigilante hunting down criminals and killing them. That's what he was doing at the prison.
00:35:55
Speaker
With his lion powers. Yeah, with his lion powers. One of his lion powers is that he can look at something and like zoom in on it. Yeah. um I don't know if we can stress enough that he has lion powers. Yeah.
00:36:11
Speaker
Which Kraven has never had. No, Kraven does not have lion powers. like That's not a thing for Kraven. I don't know why that like he's not just like a really badass hunter. like Not to you know not to so armchair ah edit this movie, but like There's a bit later on when like a bunch of dudes are trying to get Kraven in the woods, and he's got like traps and shit set up, and he murders all of them. It's kind of the most entertaining sequence in the movie.
00:36:50
Speaker
And it's like, yeah, why wasn't this just Predator, but with a dude? Yeah, exactly. like hey i like Five minutes at the start being like, hey, the son of this Russian crime lord, you know we we're we're taking out the whole family. We got his dad, and now we're going after him. We're sent here from New York City.
00:37:08
Speaker
Let's go to the fucking woods and get him. Yeah. like I was talking about it. like have like For the first half hour of the movie, we don't really see Kraven. We just see what he does.
00:37:23
Speaker
Right? like Like Predator, like where he's like kind of mysterious, but he's like so effective at killing dudes.
00:37:34
Speaker
There's so many ways this could have been such a better movie. And they didn't do any of it. like Instead, we have to get every tiny detail of his life explained, and none of it ends up being all that relevant anyway.
00:37:54
Speaker
yeah ah None of it is relevant, except that he has fucking lion powers. Yeah. but And also, a nebulous and never really discussed.
00:38:06
Speaker
Like, this is the only thing in the movie that is shown and not told. um But he can talk to animals like Aquaman. He certainly seems to have some ability to get animals to do what he wants, except for one leopard that attacks him.
00:38:22
Speaker
Yeah, but that I swear, that ah that scene is like him having the leopard as a pet. Yeah, I mean, yeah. Because one scene later, the leopard is attacking the bad guys. Yeah, it just like jumps, and it's it's you know it scratches him up a little bit, but he's like, ah, get out of here, you rascal.
00:38:38
Speaker
Yeah. So, he is doing this, he's, the the like, the press knows about him, because I guess...
00:38:50
Speaker
the All the crime bosses he's killing, or like the killings are too similar, or he's leaving a calling card behind or something. And they've started just calling him the hunter in the news media.
00:39:02
Speaker
So he goes to London, where his brother and dad live, for his brother's birthday. While he's there, Dimitri is abducted by like you know paramilitary people.
00:39:18
Speaker
And Kraven tries to like stop them. There's even a thing where he's like pull pull like he whips a piece of netting around a helicopter and tries to like pull back the helicopter. Like, you know, in that one Captain America movie, that's a lot better.
00:39:35
Speaker
But they kidnap Dimitri. Yeah. We also see Dimitri doing his job now, which is... He has incredible mimicry powers because he's the chameleon. This sucks, dude.
00:39:52
Speaker
it's like ah It starts with him as a kid doing an impression of Russell Crowe that is so fucking cheaply fucking nineteen sixty s TV just...
00:40:08
Speaker
where it's just like Russell Crowe dubbing over this kid moving his mouth, or in some cases, not moving his mouth.
00:40:19
Speaker
Yeah. The dubbing in this movie, the ADR, is so noticeable and so terrible. It's wild. It's so bad. I swear to God, there are multiple places where mouths have been digitally moved so that To hide ADR.
00:40:41
Speaker
But you can tell. It's so easily noticeable. It's honestly shocking. Yeah. um but Anyway, so he can he can mimic voices.
00:40:54
Speaker
And so he um sings at his dad's club in the voices of singers. Yeah, so he's he's the one-man cover band, baby. yeah so And his dad's like, oh he sings this one for me because he knows I like Tony Bennett.
00:41:09
Speaker
Yeah, he he does a Tony Bennett song. And then before that, he's doing Harry Styles. And then later in the movie, he does Ozzy Osbourne.
00:41:22
Speaker
um and And because they only have the recording of the songs, all these digital or all the like studio production tricks are still on the voice.
00:41:33
Speaker
Yeah, which is weird because in-universe, people go to this nightclub and they see this guy, and then they just hear the exact thing that they would hear if they were playing if they were on Spotify.
00:41:49
Speaker
yeah that's like how is that weird How's that good? It's weird, man. It's very weird. I mean, i guess you know I guess people do love to just hear the song as it was recorded, but it's still very weird.
00:42:05
Speaker
ah So they kidnap him. Sergey doesn't know what to do, so he tracks down Calypso, who is now an attorney in London.
00:42:19
Speaker
Because everybody lives in London now. And we get this scene... We get this scene of her watching the news. She's like getting ready in the morning, and she's watching the news, and the news is talking about how this lady was killed by bad guys, by real baddies.
00:42:42
Speaker
ah And... then it turns out that she's a friend of Calypso's, and Calypso is i mean naturally upset about this. um But then the next scene is Calypso at this lady's funeral delivering a eulogy, which means that you didn't actually have to do the scene where she's on the news report. You could just...
00:43:05
Speaker
could just have like rocked right over to the ah to to the funeral for the exact same effect. There's so much of that. There's so much of that throughout the movie where it's like, multiple scenes tell you the same thing.
00:43:20
Speaker
Two hours, nine minutes, man. That's the runtime. So, although, the nine minutes is all credits. Yeah, but still. This movie could have been a tight 45.
00:43:34
Speaker
could have been an episode of TV. um So he tracks down Calypso. He asks her for help because he needs her to help like find where sergey is or a Dimitri is.
00:43:53
Speaker
And so she like leans because she's an investigative ah attorney. yeah she's an He's like, you're one of the best investigative lawyers. And I'm like,
00:44:05
Speaker
AC's not home right now, but I should ask her if that's a thing that exists, because I don't think it is.
00:44:14
Speaker
but But Craven sure does say it like he' like yeah look at an investigative lawyer. Like Matlock. just like Not like Matlock, like Clarence Gileard on Matlock.
00:44:29
Speaker
She leans on her sources to figure out where Dimitri is. And then her source gets killed by Foreigner, who is in this movie, who is so powerful.
Introduction of Secondary Characters
00:44:47
Speaker
He's unbelievably powerful. He can essentially stop time. Yeah, now if youre if you guys are saying, wait, Foreigner like the band? No. The obscure Marvel Comics character Foreigner That somebody at Sony was like, man, when the nerds see fucking foreigners in this, they're gonna nut.
00:45:10
Speaker
But he's he's essentially nothing like comics foreigner. like it Says you. i mean, are you agree? you disagree?
00:45:21
Speaker
I mean, they, like, okay, so foreigner's actual power is that if he looks into your eyes, he can hypnotize you into thinking that That you are... like he he basically just puts you in a trance for 10 seconds.
00:45:35
Speaker
And so when you come out of it, you're like, whoa, did that guy teleport away? and it's like no he just like, you were just not like out of it for 10 seconds. In this, Foreigner can fucking stop time.
00:45:47
Speaker
Yeah, he can like make everybody stop so that when they're pointing a gun at him, he can take the gun and turn it around toward the...
00:45:58
Speaker
toward them instead, yeah which actually happens in the movie. He does it to a room full of armed people. Yeah. He kills the Calypso's informant by, like, hypnotizing him, essentially, by counting.
00:46:16
Speaker
But he could have just shot him. Like, he wasn't thinking that Fornir was going to do anything to him. Like, there was no reason to... like Other than just the, like, here's my power that I'm going to show you.
00:46:32
Speaker
So it turns out, Sergei finds out that Alexei Sistovich, who is the rhino, kidnapped Dmitry. Now, he was in the scene earlier with, he was in on the hunting trip. He worked for Nikolai.
00:46:52
Speaker
But they had a falling out and he got fired. So this movie is all about Rhino being a disgruntled ex-employee. So what's my favorite thing about Rhino?
00:47:05
Speaker
We also learn that he's got a thing where he can turn into the Rhino like he's got a condition or he he took part of an in in an experiment to make him the Rhino.
00:47:19
Speaker
And the thing that made me laugh until I cried is that it's revealed that the scientist, the doctor that did this experiment on him, was fucking Miles Warren.
00:47:33
Speaker
Yeah, there's there's a scene where he's like, there was a scientist named Dr. Miles Warren. and He was a real freak nasty pervo. As soon as the name Miles Warren... real fucked up sicko.
00:47:47
Speaker
As soon as the name Miles Warren was said, eyes went, Miles Warren, the jackal? And I cackled. Matt, I don't think I've ever heard you laugh that hard in our entire 15-year friendship.
00:48:05
Speaker
And then you were doing with the whole, like, he's a huge pervert freak. He's a sick weirdo. He's got the clone of Gwen Stacy. he He's also got the clone of Peter Parker in a smokestack. like He's a real nasty guy who turned me into a rhino.
00:48:25
Speaker
I'm putting so much more mustard on my performance than I'll avoid it in this movie. So there's another part. ah The guy who plays Rhino, they like put out a hit on Sergei.
00:48:40
Speaker
And... They come back and tell him that Kraven's not dead. He's still alive. um This is the part where a building falls on Kraven. And he doesn't die. Because he's got super lion strength.
Absurd Moments and Realism Issues
00:48:54
Speaker
Right. So after the building falls and they're like looking for his body in the rubble, um he's just like behind them. And he goes, guess it didn't take. Or whatever.
00:49:06
Speaker
Because he quips like Spider-Man does. And then he kills those guys. But they they tell Rhino that Sergei wasn't killed. And i like I can't even recreate the sound he makes.
00:49:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's like it's real weird. He goes like... Yeah! He goes like... It's so fucking weird!
00:49:33
Speaker
You learned that one from the jackal. But like in a movie that is so boring, i do appreciate those little glimpses of weirdness, because otherwise it's just such a slog to get through this fucking thing.
00:49:49
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm rolling it back to that moment where they tell him that Kraven's still alive right now. okay yeah this This is also where we find out, this is like shortly after he talks about Miles Warren, and the Jackal.
00:50:03
Speaker
yeah um Did we talk about his little backpack that he wears? He's got a little of camelback. He's got a little backpack that he's got to put anti-rhino juice in Yeah.
00:50:16
Speaker
To make him not look like Rhino, except for when he wants to.
Kraven vs. Rhino Showdown
00:50:23
Speaker
think maybe he was making a Rhino noise. Oh, maybe that maybe he's supposed to be making a rhino noise. But I don't know what a rhino noise is.
00:50:35
Speaker
it just looks ridiculous. It sounds ridiculous. it's There's like three or four moments where this movie approaches being fascinatingly weird and bad in the way that Madame Web is. yeah But mostly it's just boring and bad like Morbius is Sergei tracks down...
00:50:58
Speaker
Rhino and Foreigner to where they have Dimitri kidnapped.
00:51:06
Speaker
And...
00:51:09
Speaker
Or, no. He doesn't go to the headquarters. Foreigner comes and meets Rhino at his headquarters. And they're like, the only way to kill Kraven.
00:51:21
Speaker
Oh, by the way, I didn't mention this. In the press, they're calling him the Hunter. But Kraven tells Calypso that he prefers to be called Kraven, which is just a name he made up for himself.
00:51:37
Speaker
Nobody else called him that. He just calls himself that. Yeah. ah did And it's weird because it's kind of his name, but also it does mean cowardly.
00:51:49
Speaker
does. Like, has to say, like... Craven. with ah With a K. With a K. like But it sounds like he's just saying, like I made it a K, so it's cool. but like Yeah, so it does doesn't mean callow and weak.
00:52:04
Speaker
But also, like yeah, like he speaks English.
00:52:11
Speaker
like He can speak Russian, but when he's normally speaking, he speaks English, right? So he knows what the word Craven means. Yeah. And also his name is Sergei Kravinov.
00:52:24
Speaker
Right, so if he wanted to hide his identity, that would also be a dumb name to have. Yeah, and also his dad, Nikolai Kravinov, is like a famous criminal. Yeah. So like, you would think somebody would be like, Kraven? Like, the crime boss guy?
00:52:42
Speaker
Who's like the guys that you kill? That's crazy coincidence, Sergei. Yeah, that's wild. Uh...
00:52:52
Speaker
Anyway, Foreigner tells Rhino that they can't just kill Kraven normal. What he tells him is that he has no known weaknesses, which is bonkers.
00:53:08
Speaker
it's That's not something you would say about a human being. He's not Superman. And, i'm like, Kraven does have weaknesses,
00:53:20
Speaker
like As I told Matt, it's like it's like saying that I have no known weaknesses, because there's not something that specifically will kill me.
00:53:31
Speaker
But you could shoot me or hit me. Yeah, has anybody tried shooting Kraven in the head? bet that would work. It'd probably work if you shot him in the head or like stabbed him a lot.
Mystical Elements and Magic
00:53:43
Speaker
so like But they set up this plan to like ambush him in the forest...
00:53:50
Speaker
And then, like, drug him with a neurotoxin. Drug him with poison. they Drug him with fucking scarecrow toxin. Yeah.
00:54:02
Speaker
And so, they do this. They take Kraven out, or they they they set it up so that Kraven's going to be out in the woods, and Foreigner approaches him and makes him see a bunch of spiders, because he's scared of spiders.
00:54:19
Speaker
Except it hasn't been actually been established that he's scared of spiders. It's actually, this is where it's established that his mom was scared of spiders.
00:54:31
Speaker
Yeah. So like, there's not any, like there's, he just sees a bunch of spiders. He's like, but because of that, because it's ah that comic that I'm in And then foreigner shoots him with darts with the neurotoxin.
00:54:48
Speaker
And he's like, that's going to kill you. And like that's when I'm like, why don't you just shoot him with a gun? Yeah, because he also has a gun. Just shoot him with a fucking gun, dude. like he's like I know that he has no weaknesses, but have you tried?
00:55:05
Speaker
Gun. But like he's like, ha ha ha, the neurotoxin's going to kill you now. But then Calypso shoots him with a crossbow because we learned that she has some like summer camp archery training. She's like, actually, I'm really good with one of these.
00:55:23
Speaker
Summer camp. And it's such a, like, I have brothers moment. Yeah. like ah that That moment happens in Kraven's hideout, which is like a big like dome, geodesic dome. Yeah.
00:55:39
Speaker
That um in the kitchen, he's got things that come down from the ceiling that have like knives and scythes and crossbows and arrows. He has a little statue of a leopard, and when he open like pushes the leopard head back, it's got a little button in it, like like the statue of Shakespeare on Batman 66. And when he hits it, a bunch of knife shelves come out, which is kind of weird, because knives are just legal.
00:56:04
Speaker
You can just have knives. like You can just have knives. And it's like he lives in the a middle of like a game preserve in Russia, so it's like I don't know why he's hiding all his knives, but I guess when you live in a little geodesic dome tiny house, you're trying to save space.
00:56:19
Speaker
um I do want that for me. yeah I was like, hmm, that's actually dope. The first thing I said when those came down, I was like, you need those.
00:56:30
Speaker
Yeah. ah but anyway ah like It's pointless, but it is rad. Calypso shoots Foreigner with a crossbow, and then immediately just has like elixir to heal Kraven.
00:56:44
Speaker
Yeah, because it turns out she has more of her grandmother's magic tarot card voodoo magic lion powers stuff.
00:56:55
Speaker
Healing elixir. Yeah. Yeah. but I don't know enough, but I do like i feel like tarot cards and and ah voodoo are not the same
Violence and Shock Tactics
00:57:09
Speaker
thing.
00:57:11
Speaker
i feel like those are like from like different belief systems. I don't know enough to know for sure, but I do think that's the case.
00:57:23
Speaker
Well, Tarot is... French. So, I mean, maybe there's some overlap there. Yeah, maybe. don't know, man. It's whack.
00:57:35
Speaker
Anywho, after this, Kraven gets up and starts wrecking a bunch of dudes, um including putting a bear trap on their head. And the thing that made you laugh extremely hard. It's so fucking funny. Because, like, this scene is, like, it's, first of all, it's still wild that this movie is ah ah a hard R. there Yeah, it's it's like, oh, we we have to have, we have to let Craven say fuck.
00:58:02
Speaker
And when he kicks a dude in the knee, it's got to explode with blood. Yeah, most of it, you're just like, that didn't have to be that violent. And this is, again, the one scene in the film that's like,
00:58:14
Speaker
Okay, you're going for it, at least. Oh, there's there's a scene earlier in the film where he bites a dude's nose off. Yeah. Like, God, they want this to be a Batman movie so bad.
00:58:26
Speaker
It's embarrassing.
00:58:29
Speaker
ah but yeah, there's a part where he traps a guy, he makes a guy step into, like, two bear traps at the same time, and then both them are attached to, um will like, ah fucking zipline.
00:58:44
Speaker
the that drags him along the ground, and they're on the either side of ah this, like, stump. And so he goes, first of all, he goes, like, balls first right into the stump, and then he splits in half.
00:59:01
Speaker
Like... Like a fucking Mortal Kombat finisher. It's... I i laughed... slick well when After we finished watching the movie and you went to take a break and get some water, I rewound it and watched it again at normal speed just to make sure that the the little the little extra boost of speed wasn't making it... wasn't what made it so funny.
00:59:24
Speaker
And no, it didn't. It's a fucking hilarious. ah that so That dude gets fucking cut in half hot dog style. It's so funny. So then we get the fight between Craven and Rhino to cap off the movie.
00:59:43
Speaker
And like they're on this truck and they're in the middle of a field that with this like buffalo stampede. and That Kraven creates, because again, he can talk to animals like Aquaman talks to fish.
01:00:01
Speaker
yeah Even though we don't actually see it, it definitely is a power he has. Rhino goes full Rhino, which does involve him having a horn, and we were like...
01:00:15
Speaker
Why would this experiment give him a horn? And then we realized it was absolute creepo freak Miles Warren, who was like, do you want a horn? want to get horny like me?
01:00:28
Speaker
Nasty pervo Miles Warren the jackal. um But the way Rhino is ultimately defeated makes no fucking sense at all, because he's got rock-hard Rhino skin, right?
01:00:43
Speaker
But... Kraven just needs to stab him in the right place? Like, in his side? Well, he has his little colostomy bag port yeah for what to get his anti-rhino juice inside him.
01:01:04
Speaker
So that's his weak spot, like he's like he's in a Zelda game. Yeah. buddy, it's pretty rough. I don't know, man. But anyway, he like falls to the ground and he starts de-rhinoing and he's like, who do you think told me about who you were?
01:01:18
Speaker
And then there's the twist, which I called, which is that their dad set them against each other. Nikolai set Sergei and the rhino against each other, hoping that they would kill each other, I guess. Yeah.
01:01:32
Speaker
and Well, he wanted to put Dimitri – this is his plan. He wanted to put Dimitri through a horrible, traumatic situation so that Dimitri would man up and become a Russian mobster.
01:01:49
Speaker
Right, because he thinks Dimitri is weak. Yeah. Yeah. ah But also, he was like, this also, like, maybe Sergei and the Rhino will kill each other and I won't have to deal with either one of them anymore.
01:02:02
Speaker
And so um after Rhino is dead and Sergei learns that Nikolai set all this up, he goes and finds Nikolai camping in the woods.
01:02:16
Speaker
And they have a conversation about how, like, yeah, i did it I did it for you. I knew you were tough enough to kill him and it was going to make Dimitri tougher too. And Sergei's like, you're a piece of shit.
01:02:26
Speaker
And so he takes the bullets out of Nikolai's gun And he gets mauled by a horrible CGI bear.
Kraven's Identity Acceptance
01:02:36
Speaker
No more or less horrible than any of the other CGI animals in this movie, all of which are fucking awful.
01:02:43
Speaker
Yeah. Then it flashes forward one year later. Demetri has taken over his dad's criminal empire. And he also has gone to see absolute freak Miles Warren.
01:02:56
Speaker
Absolute nasty Pervo. he is now like fully the chameleon. Like earlier in the movie, Nikolai says he's like a chameleon and now he's just the chameleon. And so he shows this to Sergei by like having Sergei's face for a second.
01:03:13
Speaker
And it looks like dog shit. And he's like, also, Sergei, you're not any better than me. You kill people. You hunt people. You're just looking for the next trophy. How are you any good?
01:03:25
Speaker
um Also, Dad left something for you at home. You should go see what it is. And so Sergei goes home and finds a crate ah that Nikolai has left there for him with a note.
01:03:38
Speaker
And inside is his craven vest, which he finally gets. His craven vest. His craven vest. But it doesn't even look right. Yeah, they didn't make it look like ah like the lion's face, but they did put the lion's mane on it.
01:03:53
Speaker
So it's just like a tan leather vest with a huge furry collar. Yep. Which is extremely fucking funny.
01:04:09
Speaker
And there's no post-credits of any kind. Yeah, everyone was done.
01:04:14
Speaker
Alright, Chris, what are our high points of Kraven? I mean, look, I hate that I'm reaching for this, but like at the at the end of it,
Production Quality Critique
01:04:25
Speaker
they did make the chameleon look exactly like the chameleon.
01:04:30
Speaker
He does look like the chameleon for that moment where he has ah chameleon face, yeah. Yes. um And also, again, I've never heard you laugh as hard as you laughed when the words Miles Warren came out of someone's mouth.
01:04:45
Speaker
The two high points of the movie are when Rhino says the name Miles Warren, and when that guy gets split in half like a hot dog.
01:04:57
Speaker
Fucking wishboned. i also Genuine tears in my eyes. It's also pretty good and cartoonish and stupid ah when Kraven just puts a bear trap on a guy's head.
01:05:12
Speaker
Yeah, like that sequence is a high point of the movie, but I would not say that it's great.
01:05:23
Speaker
Low points? Everything about this movie sucks. Everything about it sucks. like The acting sucks, and I don't think it's the fault of the actors. it's i mean it's when When all the actors are bad, you have to blame the director. He should have killed you!
01:05:39
Speaker
No! Yeah. um So, that like the acting sucks. The script is dog shit. the it looks It looks like a BBC show from 15 years ago.
01:05:57
Speaker
like It's got that weird... Yeah, it looks like Sherlock. It looks like fucking Dark Shadows. Like, it's got that weird, like, I don't know what it is. I'm not as schooled enough to know why when I was a kid that, like, shows that were British looked weird.
01:06:16
Speaker
But whatever film stock they used, that's what this movie looks like. It also sounds like garbage, because everything's ADR'd, including we're supposed to buy that like this dude is just doing a really good Tony Bennett impression.
01:06:30
Speaker
ah There's not a guy like just off-screen hitting play on ah on a Zune. Well, okay, Chris, do you know what – you really don't know why British TV looked different from American TV? No, I actually really don't. I never bothered to find out. I just thought it was weird.
01:06:49
Speaker
It is the difference between PAL and NTSC. NTSC? Okay, yeah. That makes that makes sense. ah There's a different frame rate. Between the two of them.
01:07:00
Speaker
Here's what's weird about that, though. That doesn't exist anymore. yeah there's there's no All TVs are essentially the same now. So like that was just an analog TV difference.
01:07:14
Speaker
So like functionally, any production, any film production or video production or TV production should all look the same. But like they still look different.
01:07:26
Speaker
And... um Yeah, this looks like Sherlock. It looks like – although the special effects are from I don't know what. i look the Again, the best example I can come up with is like CW Arrowverse shows.
01:07:41
Speaker
yeah it looks like It looks like fucking Doctor Who, but not like – Not like current Doctor Who, like like Tom Baker Doctor Who. Yeah, like when people are running fast and stuff, it looks it just looks like fucking trash.
01:08:00
Speaker
Absolute dog shit, man. the animals The animals, you said they look like PS3 graphics. That's exactly right. it like I don't understand why it all looks so bad. This movie cost more than $100 million. dollars yeah that That, to me, is mind-boggling. like And I know not a ton of it went to the actors. like Russell Crowe probably got paid pretty well.
01:08:24
Speaker
Did Russell Crowe get $80 million? Yeah. yeah Because that's the only thing I can think of. like no other like Aaron Taylor-Johnson probably made I don't know, a million.
01:08:41
Speaker
But like, come on. Like, it's bad. it looks so bad throughout. And like,
01:08:53
Speaker
i don't know how much to blame Netflix for it, because it didn't seem very crisp watching it on Netflix for some reason. ah ha But it it couldn't have been much worse than how the movie actually looks.
Sony's Spider-Man Universe Failures
01:09:08
Speaker
Like, man, it just looks cheap.
01:09:12
Speaker
It looks cheap throughout. the The sound is cheap. the adr There's ADR all over the place. Yeah, everything's dubbed and like very obviously dubbed.
01:09:22
Speaker
To the point where they had to like digitally alter mouths. It just felt like everybody had given up. it It does feel like I mean, I made a joke before we started about how, like, Morbius and Spider-Woman were already out.
01:09:41
Speaker
They didn't have to do this. And having watched it, it's like they it's like Morbius and Spider-Man were already out, and everybody was just like, well, we're here.
01:09:53
Speaker
We might as well. Yeah, we made the movie, so I guess let's put it out. And, you know, maybe people will like it, but, like...
01:10:02
Speaker
By that point, like you've lost. you've lost It's over. like There's no way you're going to win anybody over by that point. Because you've given up.
01:10:19
Speaker
Yeah, like... You know? I know that like somebody had to have worked really hard on this movie. And like... I feel bad for like people who probably like had to rush through doing all these CGI animals.
01:10:35
Speaker
But, man, it looks bad.
01:10:39
Speaker
Alright, what are our final thoughts about Kraven? It fucking blows, dude! It sucks! I think, okay, I said Madam Web is better, which is true.
01:10:52
Speaker
Shockingly and stunningly, it is true. Yes. I would watch Madam Web again in a heartbeat before having to watch this again. is i mean, that's a tough call, but it's not an incorrect one.
01:11:07
Speaker
I don't know what forces are requiring me to watch one of these movies again, but if I had to pick, ooh, it's going to be Madam Web. Yeah, I mean, if I'm ranking the three of them,
01:11:21
Speaker
it's Madam Web number one. This prop movie is probably number two and Morbius number three. The movie is the worst of the three still. I was the i did laugh out loud. like i Gun to my head, I could not say anything that happened in Morbius right now.
01:11:43
Speaker
i ah I remember him refusing the Nobel Prize. I don't.
01:11:51
Speaker
I swear I do not remember that happening. I believe you that it happened. i do not remember it. Would you like me to read you the future section of the Craven the Hunter Wikipedia page?
01:12:03
Speaker
Is there one? There is a future section of the Craven the Hunter Wikipedia page. Because I don't think there should be one. Here's what it says.
Lessons from Kraven's Failures
01:12:14
Speaker
Shandor was open to making a second and final film featuring the character based on Kraven's last time. Really? that's first Because you made a first and final film?
01:12:22
Speaker
And setting Kraven against Spider-Man. Why wasn't that the first movie? Yeah, man, if you're going to do that, why isn't it the – you know what? That's that's kind of the Kraven story that you want.
01:12:34
Speaker
Quote, it's obviously very tragic and sad, but the character we're trying to create is one who could realistically, if this film is a success, end with Last Hunt. Similarly, Taylor Johnson expressed interest in a Sinister Six crossover film.
01:12:48
Speaker
and december twenty twenty four In December 2024, following the film's projected financial failure, it was reported that Kraven would be the final film in Sony's Spider-Man universe, ending any chance for a sequel or a crossover, with a later report from Variety specifically clarifying Kraven to be the last non-Venom film in the franchise.
01:13:08
Speaker
I do like it when people are like, hey, would you be open to doing this thing? And it's like, well, yeah, that's that's a job. Yeah, it's every time there's That I perhaps like to have.
01:13:21
Speaker
Every time there's a headline that's like, this actor would like to have this role. It's like, oh, an actor would like to get an incredible payday for what's going to be a popular... Yeah, on I too would like to to visit beautiful Vancouver...
01:13:43
Speaker
And and to make one million dollars? Sounds good. Sign me up.
01:13:54
Speaker
Man, oh man. This movie sucks, dude. like it'ss It's so bad. like i I would hope that
01:14:07
Speaker
people learned the right lessons from this failure.
01:14:12
Speaker
But I'm afraid they didn't. What do you think the right lessons from this failure are, Matt? The right lessons from this failure is you can't just take any character and make a movie with them.
01:14:23
Speaker
You can't just... They're not the same. Guys, they're just... They're not the same.
01:14:33
Speaker
Like... I know people think that, oh, a Kraven movie could be good. You just have to make a good movie. But that's not true. Yeah.
Alternative Movie Ideas Discussion
01:14:43
Speaker
like like You can't take a character who was created to be one thing and then make them a different thing.
01:14:49
Speaker
like that's That was a huge part problem in this movie where it's like, Kraven's not Kraven. He's a dude with lion powers. like Rhino is not Rhino. ryan Rhino is a guy in a suit.
01:15:03
Speaker
This is a dude who went to a freak-o-perv and got his i mean jeans fucked with. Yeah, man. I mean, I definitely would say that is a problem. That is an issue.
01:15:15
Speaker
But, like, also, if you feel like you have to be like, okay, well, he's not Russian. He doesn't wear that costume. He has lion powers. Like, how far along that process do you get before you're like, we shouldn't make a movie about this guy?
01:15:33
Speaker
Like... i said it early in the movie or or yeah I said it early in the movie, and you like kind of shot it down, but I actually think this is true. so like One of the things at the beginning of the movie is that Russell Crowe is on a journey to kill an unkillable lion, right?
01:15:51
Speaker
Just make a movie about that. Make a movie about a guy who's trying to kill an unkillable lion. That's a better movie than this. but But he does kill that lion offscreen.
01:16:03
Speaker
Off screen, yeah. but Between Kraven, Sergei, getting attacked and him coming home, that lion's been killed and mounted on the wall. Yeah, man.
01:16:17
Speaker
They do spend some time establishing that this lion is unkillable, and then the lion shrugs off being shot multiple times with rifles. And then the next time we see it that lion's dead and Kraven goes, it should have killed you!
01:16:30
Speaker
Yeah!
01:16:33
Speaker
ah So I'm looking at that Variety article that essentially said, this Spider-Man universe is dead. And I think this paragraph is very relevant.
01:16:46
Speaker
Dancing around Spider-Man without ever getting to use him also contributed to the feeling that these spinoff films were merely exciting exercises in craven opportunism. Quote, you can feel the cynicism a mile away, says a veteran producer.
01:17:00
Speaker
They're grinding out product, and it feels like it. There's no quality control. Yeah, correct. Exactly right. bake Make Spider-Man movies. Yeah, but if you want put Kraven in a movie, put Kraven in a movie and have him fight Spider-Man.
01:17:19
Speaker
You could have made a Spider-Women movie. You could still make a Spider-Women movie. But, like, make protagonists your protagonists. Yeah, man.
Venom's Success vs. Other Films
01:17:30
Speaker
Like, it's weird to me that they would not make a movie called Spider-Woman and would make a movie called Madam Web.
01:17:43
Speaker
Yeah. Here's a ah ah quote from exhibit exhibitor relations analyst Jeff Bach, which is also right on point. All of these characters are famous because they went up against Spider-Man.
01:17:56
Speaker
Unfortunately for Sony, they had a test taste of success with Venom and kind of spoiled everything for them because they thought they could just spin off all these characters. I don't think they realized that Venom could carry a franchise, whereas all these other characters could not.
01:18:10
Speaker
To not have Spider-Man in these films was the fatal flaw. Yeah. Venom... Venom has an archenemy. Yeah. Kraven's archenemy is Spider-Man.
01:18:24
Speaker
Venom had has had comic books called Venom.
Potential for Aaron Taylor Johnson
01:18:29
Speaker
Yes.
01:18:32
Speaker
Like, Kraven has at most had like a one-shot.
01:18:39
Speaker
if ah I said this while we were watching it. I do think Aaron Taylor Johnson would have been a good Ryan North, Erica Henderson, Craven. Yeah, sure. Because he's because he's very handsome. and And honestly, i think if he like tried to look dumb, he would come off as endearing.
01:18:57
Speaker
Yeah, I think he could be very charismatic, but he's not in this. nothing Not that that Craven is dumb, but you know what I mean. His comedy character. Yeah.
01:19:08
Speaker
I don't know, man.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
01:19:09
Speaker
Like, yeah, it's it's weird that everyone seems to know how much of a cash grab this is.
01:19:21
Speaker
But they didn't grab very much cash. They rejected it so brutally. Yeah, they didn't end up grabbing any cash at all, much. Yeah, man. Because the thing about cash grabs is, like, nine times out of ten, they also suck.
01:19:36
Speaker
Like, it's rare to get a cash grab that's, you know, good. Brutal. Don't watch this movie. It's bad. I'm now thinking about friends of mine who were like, oh, I went to go see Craven. And I was like, you went to go see Craven? And they were like, it was fine.
01:19:52
Speaker
like It's not. It doesn't make any sense. Did you just want to go sit in an air-conditioned room for two hours? Is that is that what what was good about it? Look, that's legit.
01:20:03
Speaker
That's legit. That's a great motivation to go see something. but ah Thanks for listening, everybody. We'll be back in August, which is Chris's birthday month, with definitely a better movie than this.
01:20:24
Speaker
Matt, don't. not Don't. You've jinxed it now, buddy. we're We'll pick a movie we know is better.
01:20:33
Speaker
It's gonna... I don't know, man.
01:20:39
Speaker
and So far, the best thing we've watched all year was Sonic 3. I guess Blue Streak was last year. All right, everybody. Sonic 3 was pretty bad. Sonic 3 was pretty bad, but honestly, if you took out all the parts with Jim Carrey, it would be fine.
01:20:55
Speaker
If you want to email us movie suggestions, do it at moviefighterscast at gmail.com. We're also on Tumblr at moviefighterscast.tumblr.com. Help us out on Patreon. Support us on Patreon. Go to patreon.com slash warrocketajax and kick in as little as a dollar a month to make sure that we continue to do Movie Fighters and Snack Situation, that we continue to do ah War Rocket Ajax, our other show, and all of its associated sub-shows.
01:21:23
Speaker
And yeah, we'll see you next time. Yeah. Until then, everybody, keep on fighting.