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Episode 21: He's Ruining His Career Before Your Eyes, Appreciate This: Pro Wrestling Videos Games & NJPW's Best Of The Super Juniors
58 Plays7 years ago
Come join this weeks hangout as the boys talk pro wrestling video games! They also discuss the amazing finale to New Japan Pro Wrestling's Best Of The Super Juniors, Being The Elite, All In, NXT and more!
Also, stay tuned until the end to find out how to enter our contest to win a pair of tickets to All In!
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Transcript
Chicago Deep Dish Debate
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Predetermined, a Pro Wrestling Hangout. I'm your host, Garrett Callender. And with me, as always, a man who is done with the Chicago pizza debate, it's Deep Dish, not Thin Crust, Derek Halpin. And I'm the only man at times on the front lines actively defending the fact that Deep Dish is Chicago's pizza. A lot of people don't know this. There is a lot of hate that Deep Dish pizza gets within the limits of Cook County.
00:00:27
Speaker
And you phrase that as you're the only man. So does that mean it's you and an army of ladies like all just arguing the the deep dish debate? No, I wasn't trying to get into that conversation, but I'm the only person it seems like at times who is actively defending Chicago's deep dish pizza.
St. Louis Pizza Critique
00:00:46
Speaker
A lot of a lot of thin crust pushers out there and thin crust is all over the United States of America. So I don't really feel like it has an identity here in Chicago. That's kind of a general thing.
00:00:57
Speaker
Hey, I'm gonna tell you, at St. Louis, they're not arguing about toasted raviolis. Uh, but, to tell you the truth, St. Louis has really shitty pizza called emos. And, uh, yeah, that doesn't qualify. Hit my goddamn music.
00:01:47
Speaker
We really going to have the Chicago St. Louis fight right here at the top of the podcast? I didn't really think that it was going to lead to a fight. I just thought that that was kind of the general consensus. Hey, I'd be nice to Chicago. You'd be nice to St. Louis. I don't have anything mean to say about St. Louis right now other than their signature pizza kind of sucks.
00:02:10
Speaker
You don't have any feelings towards their pizza, so I don't know why you have a reason to get defensive. Just because I'm lactose intolerant doesn't mean I can't argue about pizza. You're going to bat for a cracker with ketchup and some, whatever, Parmesan cheese sprinkled on top. That's St. Louis pizza, folks. Don't get it. Go to hell. If you're from St. Louis, I'm sorry. Go to Millennium Park and kiss that bean.
00:02:33
Speaker
I camp out under that bean as a Chicago resident. How's it going, man? Let's talk about wrestling. Yeah, I was going to say, this is a weird fucking way to start the episode. I'm doing well. I haven't talked to you in a little while.
Wrestling Storyline Speculations
00:02:44
Speaker
It's been an interesting week with stuff going on in life, personal stuff that's, you know, ups and downs, strikes and gutters, that kind of shit. And by that, what you mean is this week on being the elite, it's looking like Stephen Amell killed Joey Ryan.
00:03:02
Speaker
Well, it's being framed that way, it seems. What do you mean? That is clearly Stephen Amell. Was it? Was it clearly Stephen Amell? I mean, who else could it be? I don't know. It was definitely Hangman Page. But my favorite part of all of that is there was a moment when Nick Jackson looked at Hangman and said, I thought you guys had that dick heat stuff.
00:03:27
Speaker
I was disappointed. I really thought that the ride that Marty and Flip were going to ride was going to be way scarier than it ended up being. I really thought that it was going to be like the fucking swings that they have at Six Flags and then ended up just kind of pulling them up and down. And I was excited to see Marty be like a little bit more scared.
00:03:47
Speaker
For anyone that doesn't watch Being the Elite, it's the Young Bucks web series.
Being the Elite Series Intro
00:03:53
Speaker
And right now, Marty Skirrell, he was having to take care of Flip Gordon at the best of the Super Juniors over in Japan. And did you see what, it was what Chuck Taylor tweeted. He said, I almost tweeted out a bet to see how long it would take for Flip Gordon to put Japanese characters in his name after debuting at New Japan.
00:04:16
Speaker
The answer, three days. Oh, man. No, I watched Being the Elite like 45 minutes after it dropped yesterday and a big cliffhanger at the end. Oh, my God. We got to know what's in that box. What do you think's in the box?
00:04:54
Speaker
I hope it's a framed picture of all of them.
00:04:55
Speaker
You want to see a tear come to his eye. You want to see him get all sappy. That's what you want. And meanwhile, I'm over here hoping that there's something in there teasing a match for all in. That's what I want. See, I'm just so afraid for Dominion right now. I am worried that the relationship between Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks is going to be strained even further.
00:05:19
Speaker
You think so? Oh my god, what if Cody comes in and fucks it up and Kenny doesn't get to win the title? That could very well be something that happens. And then we keep that going. Are you okay, as far as All In is concerned, how do you feel about the Cody Rhodes, what is it, Nick Aldis? Yeah. Well, how do you feel about that match?
00:05:41
Speaker
I'm excited about it, but I mean, the thing that sucks, and this kind of goes hand in hand with pro wrestling, they've kind of set up the circumstances that need to happen in order for that match to happen, therefore, it feels like it's predictable, but maybe not. I don't know, do you imagine a scenario where they tease us with this champion versus champion match, and then it doesn't happen this early in the booking process?
00:06:09
Speaker
I will say I was a little bummed out when they announced that that was the stipulation for the match and I was like oh Dalton Dalton's gonna lose that belt well that's what I mean is that like they've kind of set it up to where if they're gonna tease it like why not go ahead and do it okay that must be the plan right I mean I guess we could end up being wrong here really soon but
00:06:31
Speaker
Yeah, I'm, I'm just curious to see how Cody books himself in that, uh, that paper or not, I guess, paper for you. I don't know. Just show. I guess just when you imagine, when you imagine those guys sitting around discussing ideas for all in when you get Nick Aldis on board, when you get the NWA world heavyweight championship on board.
00:06:50
Speaker
Certainly, when you introduce the idea of there being a champion versus champion match, that's something they execute, right? They don't go, we're gonna tease that, and then not do it, and then just have you fight for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship.
00:07:08
Speaker
Like, I can't imagine them teasing that and then not giving it to us. Yeah, that would be a weird thing to tease. But at this point, it's so weird. They could literally not show us the card ever. We just show up to the building and get, you know, a mystery card. That's true. They could do that, but I really don't want them to do because I'm just so excited and eager to see what's going to be on this.
00:07:29
Speaker
I think they announced the referees, they've announced some more people for the show. Which I was crazy excited when they announced the referees. Rick Knox, PWG's head referee, is going to be one of the referees at all in. Todd. Todd. Fucking Todd. Fucking Todd reversing decisions. Well, luckily Knox is a much more likeable ref than Todd. Jerry Lynn. That's crazy. We had Earl Hevner in there.
00:08:00
Speaker
Yeah, so they announced the referees. And like you said, they could do a mystery card, but they don't. I mean, the number of people who are going to be involved in this, there's it's it would be unfathomable to imagine this show disappointing people.
00:08:16
Speaker
There's certain things that are just getting me so excited even when they just tweet out a simple thing like who's going in to all-in the New Japan Heavyweight Champion or the IWGP Heavyweight Champion Kenny Omega or
00:08:32
Speaker
Okada. God, I'm just fucking dumb today. I cannot think of names. It's all right. That's why I'm here. Thank you. Appreciate that. Yeah, I'll try to carry my load here on this team. So do you think Jericho is a lock for that show?
00:08:52
Speaker
I feel like he has to be. I mean, they're all on his cruise. And we have Dominion coming up on Friday night, Saturday morning. And Jericho's fighting for the Intercontinental Championship in New Japan. Yeah. And I don't think he can have Jericho lose two matches in a row at New Japan. So you think he's going over? I think Jericho is going to beat Naito.
00:09:17
Speaker
Oh, man, that would be huge. People are going to lose their fucking minds. But then think if you hold that and then because they still haven't sold out the cow palace in San Francisco. And I think if you want to sell that place out, Jericho goes in as the IC champion and Nido gets his rematch. So I'm already thinking like further ahead because and that's mostly just for selfish reasons because I want to see Jericho there. But I don't know. I could see it.
00:09:45
Speaker
Their build is so awesome. Did you happen to see the next part? Like the final promos between Jericho and Naito?
00:09:54
Speaker
Yeah, I did. They that were on the last or the end of the best of the super juniors when I like that Jericho's like, I'm not going to come out here and drop the F bombs. Yeah, but he ends it with a fuckface. He ends it with fuckface still. And then the lights come on and Nido is just like flopping around in the middle of the ring and just like, Jesus, he talks a lot. I don't know. Another good promo. Jericho is adding like a whole other level to the New Japan scene right now.
00:10:22
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. It's another situation I can't imagine Jericho not being at the show considering all the tie-ins he's had with everyone else that's involved. He's doing so much good for that company. I was trying to think, it is difficult. We've talked about this multiple times, how hard it is to get people to watch New Japan just because it doesn't seem as accessible.
00:10:44
Speaker
and I was kind of looking at it and seeing like what was so cool about it is like you can look at the Bullet Club and you can watch them fight the guys at ROH and then you get these completely new matchups every once in a while when they travel back over to Japan and I think a good way to get people to do it is like hey just follow the Bullet Club for a little while you like the Bullet Club that'll get you over there and then you'll start picking guys out that you like even more.
00:11:10
Speaker
Oh, go ahead. You made the point. Like it is something that I personally would like to follow a little bit more, but motherfucker, like it's it's got to put in work. It's how the UK fans feel about WWE, where the shows are on such weird fucking times and you have to access it through your laptop or whatever to I don't know. It's hard to follow along with, but I'm trying. And I'm proud of you. I am proud of you. And I want you to know that.
00:11:39
Speaker
Yeah, I watched a little New Japan earlier today just for you, buddy. I watched and how good was what I had you watch. It was pretty excellent. I mean, excellent. OK, so I had Derek watch the final match of the best of the super juniors.
00:11:56
Speaker
which was Takahashi versus Ishimori, so LIJ versus the Bullet Club. And holy shit. These guys, I mean, the match went about 45 minutes or so. And I mean, it did feel like a New Japan match in that, you know, it had a lot of different parts to it. It felt like there were chapters in this match.
00:12:20
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I made some notes of my like while I was watching the match. And one of the things I wanted to point out, I wanted to text you immediately as soon as I saw it. I don't know if I like how polite the new Japan crowds are. When wrestlers go up into the crowd and fight amongst them, they just sit there awkwardly like they're not at a wrestling show. And I'm so used to American audiences like pumping their fists in the air and screaming when they have guys like six inches away from them and trying also like
00:12:48
Speaker
Like everyone there was like, oh no, let me get out of the way. Like being very respectful. Like these two men are going to battle in front of me. Like it's like it's like it's a nice theater and it's a play that just happened to carry up into the audience. And they're like, oh, no, I don't want to I don't want to get in the way of the performers. And I guess it's kind of like that. But I'm so used to, I don't know, the American crowds are a little bit more rowdy. But did you notice like how much more security Japan sends out?
00:13:17
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I mean, they've got like 12 guys following them around, like making sure that none of the people actually get hit as they're traveling into the audience. But a big part, I hate to tell the security, they may not have job security because the crowd was quite cooperative with the show.
00:13:39
Speaker
Well that was the same when I was at Wrestle Kingdom. They had people holding the barricades next to me. Like as Suzuki walks by, I'm gonna tear the fucking barricade down to go after that goddamn maniac.
00:13:55
Speaker
Like, is this based on a precedent? Has something like this happened before? Like, I'm looking around like, we're not animals. Like, we're fine. Like, we're not hopping this thing. Like, that's genuinely- I'm not how they viewed you, though. You were the rowdy American crowd there to ruin what was just a good wholesome family show. Hey, don't put it all on the Americans. It was mostly Australians.
00:14:17
Speaker
I apologize to our Australian listeners, Garrett's blaming you for the New Japan security being tight. If anything, it was their Australian values that took me over and had me screaming and ruining this polite show. The fucking New Japan management saw a couple clips of Steve Irwin doing his shit and they thought, man, this is what Australians are like. We need to have extra security to make sure that they don't rush our wrestlers and treat them like a wild croc.
00:14:46
Speaker
It's a real crocodile Dundee fish out of water tail. He hops the barricade because he doesn't know he can. Somebody comes at him with a chair. He pulls out a knife. Holy shit.
00:14:58
Speaker
Okay, so yeah, get back to the match, man. Okay, so you mentioned them getting into the crowd. Some of the craziest shit I have ever seen in a wrestling match happened while they were out in the crowd. Like fucking Takahashi getting thrown down a flight of stairs? I mean, how would you describe that? Did he take a Frankensteiner down a flight of stairs? It looked like somebody, like what, it was going for a power bomb and it gets reversed into it like a Frankensteiner down the stairs?
00:15:26
Speaker
Yes, and it is not like he fell down like three stairs. This man fell down a whole flight of concrete stairs, taking the corner of every single step as he goes down. I think the best thing about this match is, I never knew when it was gonna end.
00:15:43
Speaker
Yeah, there were so many spots happening. Well, then before we get to not knowing how it was going to end, because obviously we got to talk about how New Japan does false finishes. But. Good God, man, like some of the moves that I saw on this match I had never seen before, like the kind of know what you would call it, like the German suplex from a guy like running outside the ring. OK, I actually wrote that down, too. They called it a sliding German.
00:16:11
Speaker
And I was like, you can call it that, but I've never- It was Takahashi, he was tangled up in the ropes and Ishimori goes sliding under him, but gives him a German suplex on his way out of the ring while sliding.
00:16:27
Speaker
Yeah. What the fuck? I popped for that because I hadn't seen it before. Oh my god, I was cheering. It was a match that as I was watching it, I didn't realize how fucking excited I was until I realized I was hunched over my laptop punching the air. How invested you were. Oh my god. And then we didn't even say, while they were up in the stands, Ishimori's on one side, Takahashi goes all the way to the opposite side of the arena.
00:16:54
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to point that out. It does a running like what it was a fucking drop kick, drop kick. But he does like this double foot like drop kick lands flat back on the fucking concrete. And I mean, that was a drop kick. He went flying.
00:17:12
Speaker
And the polite Japanese people just got out of the way. And the announcer at one point said something about Takahashi's style that I really enjoyed. He said, his style isn't built for longevity. It's built for immediate success. In other words, he's ruining his career before your eyes. Appreciate this. Like, oh, my God, like he was just he absolutely was killing himself for our entertainment.
00:17:40
Speaker
And I can't thank him enough for that. Yeah. No. And then like you were saying, there were so many moments where it felt like, Oh, this is the end of the match. Holy shit. This is the end of the match. And they really know how to do some fucking nice false finishes in new Japan. And like, I think a lot of times we're so desensitized to just seeing, Oh, guy hit his finisher. Is this it? And they're able to do false finishes on non finishers. If you know, if that makes any sense.
00:18:07
Speaker
yeah absolutely and then there's a part there's a point in this match where Takahashi is like taking some fucking crazy move I don't even there's so many big spots in it I don't remember what this came after but it was at a point where you're like okay he's dead he is dead Ishimori goes for the cover Takahashi kicks out at one
00:18:31
Speaker
I've seen that spot before, where a guy late in the match takes a big move, and he's suddenly able to Superman out at one. We're 35 minutes into this fucking barn burner of a match, and I was like, he's dead now, but he fucking kicks out, and it's just, he had so much time before he even had to get back in the ring at one point, he could have just rested a minute, he didn't, he just got in, he was very defiant.
00:18:57
Speaker
And then there were also some really good moments of like holds, like submission moves. Yeah. Was there a spot where they'd locked like a cross face? But then he had both arms, a cross face where both arms ended up behind his back. Yeah. And you're like, he's done. This is the end. Nope. Gets a foot on the ropes.
00:19:22
Speaker
Jesus and every time I really didn't think he was gonna get it I that ended up being a match them like somebody's gonna fucking pass out This has to end in somebody passing out. Nope No one two three, man
00:19:34
Speaker
Takahashi goes over, wins best of the super juniors, and he gets the trophy, and then basically, I love LIJ, just they're like, they don't give a shit attitude. Like, for one, I mean, Naito, he didn't even break, he didn't even- I'm not Tranquilo, I'm fucking crazy.
00:19:55
Speaker
Naito, he has a match, does not come to the ring wearing his IC title. Left it at home, doesn't give a shit. And then Takahashi wins the best of the Super Juniors and he's like, eh. That was basically his promo at the end. He's like, I don't really care about this.
00:20:11
Speaker
I guess I won. I guess this is over. Yeah. And then he says, then he calls out, uh, Osprey for the junior heavyweight championship, which now that's going to be a match at dominion. And that is going to be fucking crazy as well. The dominion card is just bananas right now.
00:20:30
Speaker
Yeah, I guess before we start making predictions for All In, or for the show at Cow Palace, or for anything really, it's one of those things where we're on a week-to-week basis right now. We gotta get through Dominion to kind of figure out where we're gonna wind up. Are you gonna try and watch it live? I'm gonna try. Ah, what am I doing Friday? I'm not sure. I may be home, so I may have a chance to watch it late Friday into Saturday.
00:20:58
Speaker
Yeah, I'm two a.m., right? Two a.m. Central Standard Time here in the United States. That is correct. And I have to assume the show will be three, four hours. And you know, like those final four matches are what you're like, you're there for. Yep. You need Nido and Jericho. You need to see the Bucks have their first heavyweight tag team division match against Evil and Sonata. Holy shit. That's going to be wild.
00:21:25
Speaker
Yeah, it should be a good show. Oh, and then also on this last best of the Super Junior show, you had Marty. He was in a tag match and he was going against Tanahashi. And I don't remember who else was in that match, but throughout the match, he was being very disrespectful to Jushin Thunder Liger.
00:21:45
Speaker
At one point, he gave a guy in the front row dressed as Jushin Thunder Liger double middle fingers, then walked over to the real Jushin Thunder Liger and gave him double middle fingers. Because I treated him the same. Liger was on commentary, which I love when Liger is in just like a suit, but has the mask on. Real handsome guy.
00:22:05
Speaker
But at the end of the match, Marty gets Tanahashi, because Tanahashi has that bad shoulder, puts him in the chicken wing, and is just trying to tear his arm off until Liger comes in and saves him. And Liger, I don't know if I'd ever seen him without a shirt on. He tears the jacket off, pulls his shirt off. Turns out, Liger's ripped as hell. He's shredded. If you're going to put all that work into being that jacked, why cover it up in the Power Ranger suit?
00:22:37
Speaker
because it makes for an awesome reveal down the road, and you get a second wind in your career to get another run. You better believe if I have abs someday, I'm not wearing shirts anywhere. I'm telling you, man, you get to look like Finn Balor. Then you just cover it up, don't let anybody know about it for about 10 years, and then just casually one day at the pool pull it off, and everyone's like, what the fuck? We had a friend that got abs as a joke. Yeah? Do you remember that?
00:23:08
Speaker
I don't know, I feel like I've had a couple friends do that. I'm talking about Kyle. Yeah. Our buddy Kyle, I would never say that he was a very active man. We're all nerds playing video games and whatnot. Which is relevant to this episode.
00:23:24
Speaker
Yeah, Kyle took it upon himself one day, and by one day, I mean over the span of several months, to secretly be doing P90X, get secret ripped, and then one day just be like, hey guys, BAM, and pull his shirt up to reveal a fucking six-pack. Well, you say it was a secret, but I was living with him at the time, so I knew he was doing P90X. It may have been a secret to the rest of the world, but it wasn't to me.
00:23:50
Speaker
Well, that was a fucking crazy secret for somebody to keep, like, hey, guys, you want to see a little secret? Yeah, got ripped. For you, I'm sure. Like I said, though. One day Kevin Owens is going to do that to me. And I'm like, what the fuck? Overnight. Just shredded Kevin Owens as the Kevin Owens nobody's ready for. Oh, but at the end, you know, Liger comes in, saves Tanahashi. Sorry, I got to finish this. And then that's why we started this podcast for tangents like that.
00:24:19
Speaker
So P90X friend of ours. Anyways, back to Juice and Thunder Liger. So Marty is screaming, I'm going to kill. He's like, he says that he wanted to take on Liger. He wanted to take on Tanahashi and he wanted Rey Mysterio. And he said, I'll kill all the legends. Oh, Jesus. So then they announced today that that match is going to be Liger, Tanahashi and Rey Mysterio in his New Japan debut against Hangman, Cody and Marty.
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome. That's gonna be great. That's a big fucking deal Basically right now New Japan is just leaving me in a position where every match I say to him like yeah, it's gonna be great I gotta watch that one like I'm gonna be up till 5 in the morning So we have this pay-per-view where I'm just like every match is a banger Need to see them all and then money in the banks happening where I'm like, you know what?
00:25:12
Speaker
Roman Reigns versus gender might not be that bad. You know, that's actually surprising because I think that's a sentiment more and more people are sharing. That feud? Not as bad as I thought it was gonna be. Kind of interested.
00:25:24
Speaker
Well, actually, gender looked like a little bit of a badass on Raw this week. Yeah, I think every week he's starting to look a little cooler. Roman went hunting for him and gender didn't hide. He just waited for him to come be found. It's weird what's going on on that show right now.
00:25:43
Speaker
There's a lot of weird things going on. Like I said, we're in a little bit of a holding pattern right now with Raw and SmackDown. We're just trying to get to Money in the Bank. Everyone's excited about Dominion. Right now, we're just trying to get to Money in the Bank to see what the next step is. At this point, are you more excited for Money in the Bank or are you more excited for TakeOver? I'm more excited for... Oh, fuck. That's tough.
00:26:06
Speaker
I'm more excited for the Money in the Bank matches out of the whole everything that whole weekend. That's the thing I'm most excited about is the Money in the Bank matches in the WWE Championship. But as far as a whole show, probably take over. Is that weird? I don't think so. I think right now, like if you look at last week's episode of NXT, you had that spot that everybody was talking about between Velveteen Dream and Ricochet.
00:26:33
Speaker
Oh yeah, with the flip out of the ring and everything. I mean, if anyone were questioning what Ricochet's abilities were, I think when they saw him just, okay, Velveteen Dream comes out, cuts a promo on Ricochet, Ricochet runs, does a front flip over the top rope, lands perfectly on his feet, and real casual Friday walks up to Velveteen Dream. Because he don't give no fucks. That was, for real, some superhero shit. Yeah, and if you fuck that up, you look like a fucking dork.
00:27:04
Speaker
I mean, that's one, it's all or nothing, he nailed it. And he looked like a badass in the process, but if you fuck that up, ugh. So in that moment, he really had his like, Titus falling under the ring moment, or the shock master, but he fucking nailed it, looked like a superstar, that match is gonna rule. Okay, so the main event is gonna be Lars Sullivan versus, no, the main event has to be Gargano, right? Gargano Champa? You would think so, there's no way that anybody's gonna be able to top that.
00:27:34
Speaker
I think that's what everybody's most excited for, and I don't think anyone is particularly pumped for Lars Sullivan versus Tommy End or Aleister Black. No, but it's another one of the situations where they booked it in such a way that it's okay for the title match to be on the undercard. Yeah. Like, it'll get back to being the main event once we get through this Gargano Champa feud.
00:27:58
Speaker
What do you think they're going to do with Lars Sullivan? Because right now, the way I see them is it looks like they're bringing up these giants to just build them up right now so that Braun Strowman has somebody of equal size to kill a couple, you know, a couple of years down the line.
00:28:15
Speaker
Is it a couple years or just in a few months? I mean, honest to God, it could be six months. Right. I mean, and it's a formula that makes sense. You build up a heel monster so that, you know, there's somebody to be torn down. I don't know. To me, it's just a it's a placeholder match. It's something for Alistair Black to just kind of get through. And I think everyone's fine with that. Maybe they wish they were seeing a little bit bigger match for him, but you're getting Gargano Champa, too. It's going to be a fucking
00:28:43
Speaker
It's going to be a barn burner, man. Oh, that thing's going to be nuts. Sorry, I want to talk about big men for a second here. Is that all right? I want to talk about a large man. No, so Lars Sullivan, one of the big men. It's the big show. But the one that I've been wondering about is because they had signed Donovan Dijak quite a while ago.
00:29:08
Speaker
I mean last Bola was his last indie show and I mean that's coming up on a year and he's only been doing the WWE house or the NXT house shows and he's just you know he's a really tall guy but he can fly he can do all that shit and he's huge so I'm wondering are we waiting until Lars Sullivan's gone to bring Dijak up?
00:29:31
Speaker
Or will Dijak be the guy to maybe take out Lars Sullivan? And then Lars goes and takes on him for a while until Dijak comes up and is the next guy to get knocked out by Bronn.
00:29:41
Speaker
I have no predictions on this. I don't know what they're going to do. And NXT is, is as an entity, we've talked about this before, but as an entity, it's really weird because there are certain things that WWE chooses to acknowledge and there's other things that they don't. Um, I know on raw, it was super weird to hear them three or four times say, this is the first time Finn Balor and Kevin Owens have faced each other in WWE. And I'm just like, uh-huh.
00:30:09
Speaker
Like this isn't even their first ladder match. Right. It's especially weird because you've seen them, you know, just a few years ago, like, you know, when Owens came up, he brought the NXT championship with him. They acknowledged it. They, they know what's going on down there. And we've talked about this so many times before, which is, is it developmental or is it just another brand?
00:30:34
Speaker
And it seems like they want to have their cake and eat it too, where when it's convenient for like a selling point, they won't acknowledge things that have happened in NXT. And then other times when it's convenient for a storyline, they like to address history that happens down there. And I don't know- I assume you mean like Asuka having a gigantic winning streak.
00:30:55
Speaker
Well yeah, they'll acknowledge that, but sometimes guys have history down there and feuds, like I just said, like the Balor Owens stuff, or they have no problem acknowledging, well they didn't acknowledge Balor Owens, but they have no problem acknowledging the Owen Zane stuff that happened in NXT. Yeah, pretty soon we're gonna get Champa Gargano on, you know, Raw, and they're gonna be like, these two have never met each other.
00:31:20
Speaker
Right. It's really weird. It's really hard to predict, especially when they call people up. Like, offers of pain have once again mysteriously gone missing. And so is sanity. Yeah, I mean, they they they hinted that those guys were going to be making their debut soon and still hasn't happened. Are they as far as I know, I haven't even heard of them doing house shows. Yeah. I don't know. Hanging out somewhere with the Ascension.
00:32:02
Speaker
I was trying to think, is there really a tag team down there that has
00:32:08
Speaker
gone on to do anything? I mean, if somebody brought this up, you know, the closest thing to it is Enzo and Cass. They were really, really, really over. But did they ever have like a significant win while on the main roster? Not really. They definitely won the tag titles. I don't think they had a significant win, but like them getting to debut after WrestleMania, that crowd went... I mean, that was the worst crowd I've ever been part of.
00:32:32
Speaker
They were shitty, that's where the beach ball thing started, but that crowd quit being dicks to cheer for them. So regardless of how we feel about Enzo and Cass now, it's hard to take away how everyone felt in that moment.
00:32:48
Speaker
Yeah, I mean that's the closest thing to it. Speaking, did you see the, there was a meme I posted on Twitter that said, add Big Cass into any match to ruin it. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In a classic match that you're like Austin Rock at 17 with Big Cass in the background.
00:33:05
Speaker
Yeah. He's kind of dead in the water, don't you think? Yeah. Speaking of big guys. Yeah, I mean, you know, we've not really talked about this a whole lot, but I did a poll recently asking kind of like, you know, our listeners what they'd like to see us talk about in an episode.
00:33:26
Speaker
and I put some categories up there things that you and I have gone back and forth on before and one of the categories was per wrestling video games which is the main event for today's show and we are deep deep into our intro here so let's uh let's trans let's transition if we if we may to talking about the big topic today
00:33:53
Speaker
pro wrestling video games.
00:34:10
Speaker
no nobody if nobody asked for this there's actually we actually have a significant chunk of episode time to dedicate to what we came here to talk about yeah fuck big cats we don't need them anything right now what we do need to talk about are pro wrestling video games man this is I think it's
00:34:27
Speaker
It's hard for me to talk about pro wrestling without talking about pro wrestling video games because at least for me, and I know I'm not the only one, um, growing up watching wrestling, I guess, fuck, even into my, you know, teens, late teens and early twenties, uh, playing like the video games was just as much a part of my wrestling fandom as watching the show.
00:34:47
Speaker
And I know that you and I both had wrestling video game experiences when we were kids, stuff that we did together. We're friends, if everyone didn't know that already. We had little boy sleepovers, sleeping bags and candy and popcorn, and we're playing our wrestling video games and Tomb Raider. And now we have big boy sleepovers with drugs and beer and pornography. And light tubes.
00:35:15
Speaker
Yeah. Um, so I had the, you know, early when we started the podcast, I was kind of struggling to remember what my very first pro wrestling video game that I played was. And I had to do some research and found out it was actually, um, WWF WrestleMania steel cage challenge. Um, had a cage on the front with undertaker, the Mountie, I think Hogan macho man. When we say the Mountie, is that PCO?
00:35:43
Speaker
Is it Jacques Rougeau? I don't know. I think that's Jacques Rougeau. I was hoping that PCO was going to come back into conversations, right? Oh yeah, that was Quebecers, not the Mounties. Yeah, I wasn't really into pro wrestling as a little tyke. But this was my first experience with it, was playing this game.
00:36:08
Speaker
I just remember it being a lot of fun on the NES, uh, climbing the cage. It reminded me of like an American Gladiators game, I think at that time. And so I was like, Oh, it's like American Gladiators. And then you punch dudes and try to knock them off this cage and escape the cage. And I was hooked. And I remember renting that game two or three times from our local video store and having a blast with that. But fuck man, it was probably.
00:36:30
Speaker
I don't know, five or six years before I played another wrestling video game and that was all thanks to you, man. Oh shit, was that actually the very first game I ever bought for PlayStation? WCW Nitro? Yeah, that was my first game on PlayStation. That was number one? Well, because I think I got a PlayStation like right, wasn't that, you know, right in the Monday Night Wars?
00:36:53
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. We were in the thick of the attitude era when those games came out. And I just remember, hadn't played a wrestling game in forever. And you brought over that. And we had a fun fucking time unlocking all those ridiculous characters like Santa Claus and Frosty the Snowman and the creators of the game and the WCW superfan. I think you could play as Gene Okerlund too. I was going to say, one of the greatest joys of my childhood, because you could do moves to anyone.
00:37:23
Speaker
So obviously it was, you know, given the giant a power bomb with Mean Jane.
00:37:31
Speaker
Oh god, and I don't know, I just remember we were up late playing WCW Nitro and going through all the little video introductions that each character did and laughing our asses off and fuck there was something, I don't know, I got hooked from that moment on and I don't think it was too long after that that there was like a demo disc that had WWF Warzone on it.
00:37:57
Speaker
Warzone was such a big part of junior high for me, or grade school, I don't remember where that one came out. But I know for sure there was a point where we had a full week of snow days, and I remember at the end of seven days emerging from the basement to see how bright it was.
00:38:16
Speaker
Like he had just hibernated. Was this with the actual Warzone game, or was it with the demo disc? Oh, that was with the whole game. And if you remember, we got Rocky Maivia. He wasn't even the Rock yet. Oh, yeah. Ahmed Johnson, Farooq, British Bulldog. And I mean, of course, Stone Cold, who was on the cover. But I think the fun thing about that game, that was the first time we got to have weapons in a game.
00:38:42
Speaker
I think it was it was a huge deal because I think that was my first experience with they had kind of like a really shitty creator wrestler on there I just remember moves being so hard to pull off on that game it was like a fucking Mortal Kombat gamer
00:38:57
Speaker
Mortal Kombat would be too kind. It was like trying to play Primal Rage in a wrestling game. You had to do a different combination of shit just to do a vertical suplex. Nothing felt fluid. But at the time, it was a lot of fucking fun, and I played the shit out of that one.
00:39:16
Speaker
I think there was a follow-up to Nitro somewhere in there. They basically just copied Nitro and they did WCW Thunder. I remember being excited when that came out and then realizing, oh shit, I just bought the same game again with a different name. Oh yeah, and that was no good. Well, actually, you got to play as a few more characters. You know, it gave me Billy Kidman.
00:39:37
Speaker
Well, yeah, and I think WCW Thunder added the option, which was huge at the time. You could actually change the factions that guys were in. So you could move Kidman to the Wolfpack, or you could move Raven out of the flock and into NWO Hollywood and vice versa. And the actual appearances of the wrestlers in the game would change based on that, which was actually pretty cool at the time. Yeah, you could even do what WCW did and just move everybody into the NWO.
00:40:06
Speaker
and then it just becomes a group of friends hanging out in arenas and that's a quality joke
00:40:12
Speaker
I do remember there being like a level that there was like, it was like a jazz level where you could make the wrestlers dance in this jazz level. They would spin each other in the ring and do like some swinging. I do not remember this and I had that game. Not at all. Oh, this is, this was a very real thing, man. I will make sure to show you a video when we are done recording this shit. What you left out at WCW and was it, was WCW versus the world before all that?
00:40:40
Speaker
I think, oh god, you see, here's the part of this that I'm a little bit ashamed of. I remember the Christmas where I was trying to decide if I wanted to get an N64 for Christmas or if I was gonna get a PlayStation. And the big decision made was that it was going with PlayStation, it was a little bit cheaper, and I knew that I was gonna get some more games with it. The N64, if I got that, wasn't coming with any games like Christmas.
00:41:05
Speaker
and went to PlayStation. So I actually missed out on a lot of the pro wrestling video games for the N64, which sucks because I keep hearing from people how good they were. Oh, I never had an N64 either, but I would go to friends houses. And I before we did this, I was watching a bunch of different videos of a lot of these games, just haven't played them in years. There was WCW versus NWO. World tour, right? Yeah, that's what it was called, right?
00:41:32
Speaker
It was WCW versus NWL World Tour. And that was the one that made all of the wrestlers about the same height and kind of fat. Chunky. Like it started to get really good though with like the engine they were using and how you could lock up and do the grapples and doing moves was a little easier, but they had really perfected it a little more by the next one, the revenge.
00:41:57
Speaker
Yeah, WWE and WWE will revenge the customization and the system that they had at that, I mean, I think, was that by THQ? I think it was by THQ, which is who eventually WWE, WWF hired to do their games because I think they liked how much the revenge had panned out.
00:42:16
Speaker
Yeah, I just, it sucks because the big one I keep hearing about for the N64 was WWF No Mercy, which I think came out in 2000. And is this, I mean, this is the peak of pro wrestling popularity.
00:42:32
Speaker
Oh, for sure. Yeah, and it's one of the I always it consistently comes up when I talk about pro wrestling video games with people where they're like, we swear it's the best customization. I mean, like, it was way ahead of its time. The engine was really, you know, like the best of its, you know, the best to that point and.
00:42:52
Speaker
I don't know. I watched some footage on it. Like some of the, I mean, like a lot of games of that era, some of the graphics really, really don't hold up, but that's not the end all be all for a game. And people will swear that WWF no mercy is the greatest pro wrestling game ever. See, I stand by that. It was smackdown. Just bring it.
00:43:10
Speaker
That was my, if I had to put a cap on where my playing pro wrestling video games not ended, but like where the fun ended for me was with- Where the peak was? Oh, the peak was just bringing. That was every day after school me and my buddy Adam would
00:43:28
Speaker
play the shit out of that game. And there were so many different modes you could do. I remember doing the Royal Rumbles were really fun because you'd try and bring your guy in at one and see if you could make it to the end. You never could. But then you immediately get to just play as a different character.
00:43:45
Speaker
That's also, you see, what's funny is that's like your favorite of the SmackDown games. And you talk to other people, you'll, but you talk to me and that's not the case. I don't have a whole lot of shit to talk about that one, but that to me, that one to me, the most memorable thing about SmackDown, just bring it for the PS2. Oh, I know what you're about to say.
00:44:03
Speaker
is Fred fucking Durst. Absolutely. You could play as the lead singer of Limp Bizkit in a WWF wrestling game. And his taunt was the Roland dance. Absolutely. Well, he came to the ring in a car, had some backup dancers, I think.
00:44:20
Speaker
Just bring it the one where you could actually drive a car at one point I know you could drive a forklift an Undertaker rode a motorcycle But I was trying to remember which of the wrestling games you could hop in a car and just charge into somebody There were several of them and I can't remember exactly where it started I know that after we got through the the nitros and the thunders and
00:44:42
Speaker
Couple of WCW games and the early WWF games by the time we got to the Smackdown series I think even on the PS the original PlayStation They had added backstage shit that you could do with weapons and with vehicles I remember there was a Christmas my mom got me Smackdown to know your role I didn't ask for it Hadn't hinted that I won it wanted it and I had been a WCW gamer up to that point poor me. I'm sorry and
00:45:12
Speaker
I was, I don't know, it was magical. Like it was a fucking Christmas break. I had all this extra time to myself. And I just remember running through season mode and creating wrestlers. And I like, I think that was where like my love affair for like pro wrestling video games really took off.
00:45:29
Speaker
And I became loyal to the SmackDown series. And then it led into, like you said, SmackDown, just bring it. And I played that very briefly. And it wasn't too long before SmackDown shut your mouth came out. And I think at that point, like every year a new SmackDown game was coming out and every year I was buying it and beating it within like 24 hours and just unlocking shit. I mean, they did a good job with those later SmackDown games with the story modes.
00:45:59
Speaker
It really was a choose your own adventure. I don't know it was so easy to burn through hours and hours of time on the SmackDown games because like you said the story mode was so good but I'm not here to gloat but I guess I am a little bit you were a witness I got really really good at create a wrestler and if you left me alone for a few hours with like just somebody in mind and time to burn through that game and customize somebody I could do a pretty accurate representation of anybody you wanted
00:46:29
Speaker
Oh, I mean, if creating a wrestler in a WWE game could have been a job, you'd be the CEO of it now. Like, I think we've noted on this podcast before, I made a pretty damn good Nosferatu the Vampire. I think I made all of, I made you
00:46:49
Speaker
I made a version of you wearing like a pink hem shirt and a top hat. I made like all of our friends. I made the transporter, who's Jason Statham. I know for sure there's definitely some people listening right now that are like, him? Like yeah, yeah, sorry. We made Jason Statham.
00:47:10
Speaker
Oh, I was meeting him, the band, like people are just now fighting out that in high school I was weighing a love medal. Yeah, yeah, you had a pink him shirt. You really outed me on that one. That was... I was just going over what I gave your character. It was a lovely shirt, Garrett. Don't be upset. Put it this way. Him was prominent enough in my life that when Derek had to make me and create a wrestler, him had to be included.
00:47:40
Speaker
Well, I've told him that when I'm not going to edit it out, you're going to get so much love from people after this podcast comes out. Somebody's going to send me a heart of Graham emoji. You're going to get so much heart of Graham shit just because of this podcast. I'm so sorry. But yeah, I mean, fucking create. I don't know, man. Like there was something really cool about you'd get the game.
00:48:05
Speaker
And every year the rosters would be a little bit different. They'd add people, some people would go away, and then they started doing the Legends shit with it. Where you could play as, you know, old Deadman Undertaker. They would have the Rock and Stone Cold in every game, but it was cool. Any person that they left out, it was like a challenge. Like, what's the most realistic, accurate version of a character that's not in this game that I can make?
00:48:30
Speaker
And that was where the whole other level of enjoyment with wrestling games came from. And I would be up till like three or four in the morning, either beating story mode or making another wrestler. Just excited to kind of show off my work to you guys whenever we had our next hangout. You were up all night playing God. Yep.
00:48:51
Speaker
and it shaped me into who I am today. But they've taken that to a whole new level. I mean, have you now you can scan somebody's face to put in these fucking games. I've seen videos where just the elite being in these new the new WWE games because it's so easy to just upload, you know, the late like the pictures from their clothing and their moves are already mostly like Shawn Michaels moves.
00:49:17
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's pretty impressive. It's one of the things that I'm sad has kind of passed me by. I think the last wrestling game I bought was WWE 2K14. And that just blew my fucking mind because I mean, obviously, like the graphics were pretty good, you know, I think it was like PS3. But
00:49:36
Speaker
the graphics were great and then this the roster the rosters just kept getting bigger and bigger and everybody you could think of like old legends and fuck I just remember having all of the NWO together and they were completing the entire era storylines you could go through every WrestleMania up to that point and play out important storylines and
00:50:00
Speaker
I don't know like I just it's like I said when we started this it's just for me it's hard to detach the idea of wrestling video games from wrestling because so much of my time was spent playing them um and I haven't in recent years and it's kind of sad it makes me want to do it now you are not missing out on these new games is that true I have gotten a couple of them and maybe I just got too old and stupid
00:50:26
Speaker
But I remember when, you know, to try and counter a move was one button. And now I bought, I'm trying to remember what two I have. I have the one that has Cena on the front and I have the one that has Lesnar on the front.
00:50:42
Speaker
And you have to build a character and I couldn't get out of NXT. I never won a single match against the computer in that game and somehow still bought another one. I'll try it again, maybe it was the game. I think it was like, well, Lesnar's on the front of this one.
00:51:02
Speaker
And at that time, I was all about Suplex City. Who wasn't? And God, those games are just so hard. The button combinations are hard. I truly do not understand them. They got so complicated that I can't deal with them anymore.
00:51:19
Speaker
Well, some of my favorite memories in relation to pro wrestling, we've talked about it before, and I say this every podcast, but I remember in the middle of the attitude era, if you were like a young boy or a young child in school, coming into school on like, you know, Monday mornings after a pay-per-view or Tuesday mornings after Raw and Nitro,
00:51:43
Speaker
Everyone would gather in the cafeteria and you would just gush about what had happened the previous night and I remember one morning coming in and I had a copy of the official US PlayStation magazine and I showed what were like still images of WCW mayhem, which was supposed to come out like six months to a year down the road I can't fucking remember
00:52:03
Speaker
But, at the time, I showed you these screenshots, and the graphics looked fucking amazing. Like, at the time, it looked like real life. Like, they had just taken pictures of shit happening on, like, TV. And then I looked it over to the side, and it was... Do you remember the PlayStation multi-tap adapter? That you could plug in and get, like... You could get up to eight people on this game. I'm gonna go ahead and say I had the multi-tap adapter. Rarely worked.
00:52:29
Speaker
Well, here's the thing. I went out of my way to buy one, I think on one of my trips up to Chicago before I lived up here as a kid. And I spent like 50 bucks on the damn thing. And mine worked every time. I never had an issue with it working. I had like the official PlayStation one. I bought this specifically. See, you probably bought Mad Cats like an asshole. I bought Mad Cats like an asshole.
00:52:54
Speaker
Cause you know what? No one ever put a turbo button on a controller that wasn't mad cats or some other bullshit and you didn't need the turbo button, made the game worse, took up space. Usually fuck things up, yeah. Yeah, no, I went out and bought the official multi-tap and I did it for WCW Mayhem because I swore it was gonna be the greatest thing ever. God, I remember going day of to get that.
00:53:19
Speaker
Yeah, I remember being super excited and I tried to like that game for so hard. The worst is when you would meet other people who played wrestling games and this happened later on when games went online. I tried to get really good at them as a wrestling game.
00:53:35
Speaker
So I tried to get good at wrestling, knowing how to do all the moves, how to roll in and out of different grapples. And then you would have the guy. Thank God for you and Mayhem. They introduced the cattle prod. Oh, fuck. So that's what you dealt with. Good shot, guys. Thanks, Scott. That was Scott Hall I was referencing. Your favorite childhood wrestler really screwed up some wrestling for you there. Did he? I don't know. What was wrong with the taser?
00:54:06
Speaker
I guess nothing. That's a great way to beat a guy without making him look like a bitch. You see that was pretty good but then once it got into mayhem it was and what's funny is that was the selling point to me was like this one has the daiser. You can use a daiser?
00:54:24
Speaker
Yeah, I just I was stoked for that game. I just I thought the idea of us having one of our one of our sleepovers and fucking palling around chugging pixie sticks and Mountain Dew at three in the morning. I thought that having the ability to have eight of our friends playing this game was going to be the best thing ever.
00:54:43
Speaker
And I think we tried to organize it one time and maybe we had four or five people there and it never really lived up to the hype. And yeah, I just, there was a time period where the world was so full of hope.
00:55:00
Speaker
But do you remember just how exciting it was back in the day to get one of those fucking demo discs and just sampling games? I mean, not even just wrestling games, but just video games in general. You would get one of those demo discs either from Pizza Hut or in a magazine. I still stand by that demo disc that had Tony Hawk's Pro Skater and Metal Gear Solid from Pizza Hut's the greatest game ever made. Not those games, that demo.
00:55:29
Speaker
I just, yeah. I mean, I think when we were talking about Warzone earlier, a lot of my early experience and being excited for that game was just playing Stone Cold Steve Austin versus Shawn Michaels on the demo disc for Warzone. And I'm guessing that was your only option.
00:55:44
Speaker
Yeah for the demo and then when I got the game I Fucking spent a long time trying to get shit accomplished and go through like their tournament mode and everything on there and Yeah, I don't know man like Do you but do you remember how much fun we used to have with that shit?
00:56:01
Speaker
I mean, all the wrestling games I had fun with, even the shittiest ones. I had the Nitro game on PC. Yeah, you did. Because I thought it was going to be different than the one for PlayStation. And you know how it was different? Way harder to play. Well, yeah, because you're playing with a fucking keyboard.
00:56:22
Speaker
I also had the WWF arcade game for PC, and that game was fucking wild. It kinda had more of the graphics of Mortal Kombat, but there were no real wrestling moves involved. At one point, Razor Ramon had a machete.
00:56:39
Speaker
What? Yeah, you would have a machete and hit people with it. Undertaker would hit you with a tombstone. Yokozuna didn't get anything fun. I think Doink had a big hammer or something. Something wacky. Hey, I don't know if you remember, maybe you weren't with me on this. Do you remember when Adam Neff, we were at an arcade. So we were playing, it was one of the newer WWF.
00:57:02
Speaker
video get like arcade games good graphics and I just remember some guy was standing at the arcade cabinet playing a match Adam Neff walks over puts his quarters in Immediately figures out how to get weapons
00:57:17
Speaker
Pulls a chair out from under the ring. And he's playing now against a stranger that he just put coins in the machine and is now facing a man who didn't ask to be played with. Goes over, beats him unconscious with a steel chair.
00:57:33
Speaker
and just ruins his fucking gaming experience. Pins him, that guy just kind of glances over at him without saying anything and just walks away. Okay, so not only do I remember this story, not only was I there, I was a participant in this. And okay, so the game you're referencing was WWF Royal Rumble. It was an arcade game that they had at like the Aladdin's Castle or whatever your local arcade was in the shopping mall.
00:58:04
Speaker
And they actually released it for the Sega Dreamcast. So I had this game like a year later or months later. But it was, I can't, we were there, we were there at the mall to see a movie or something. And it was one of those like arcade games that had like three or four TV setups so that you could have a bunch of players in the same game. And you could have a couple people in each monitor.
00:58:28
Speaker
And I'm sitting there and so it's it's literally like an active Royal Rumble where you pop your tokens in and you can join the Rumble at any time. And the game would randomly switch rooms to like you would be in the ring and then suddenly everyone would look up and then you would be in the backstage area. But yeah, your story is spot on. I'm sitting there playing this Royal Rumble. There's a guy next to me. Did you say he was in a wheelchair? I did not say that. I think he was in a wheelchair.
00:58:59
Speaker
And he was playing the story different.
00:59:02
Speaker
I guess, but he was sitting off to my, or I guess he was sitting to my right in his wheelchair, playing this game, and we were just having a normal Royal Rumble, and then Adam Neff came in, popped his tokens in, and just ruined this guy's fucking night, and then he just left. And, yeah. Honestly, that would be maybe my favorite thing to do with an arcade game. See one guy playing it, you and your buddy go in, just turn it into...
00:59:30
Speaker
turn it into a handicap match and take that guy out. That's some heel shit. That is. Yeah, we were there to see a movie. Maybe it was Freddie got fingered. I don't know. I'm not saying what it was that we were seeing, but you're like, it for sure was not ready to rumble. It was for sure not ready to rumble because I didn't see that shit in theaters. And from what I hear, I'm glad that I didn't. Hey, I saw that you saw it in the opening night. And did you hear that David Arquette is training to be a wrestler right now?
01:00:00
Speaker
I heard rumblings about this. Is it true? It is true. He's been posting about it. Do you think he's gonna fight it all in? Is he gonna fight Stephen Amell? Oh my god. That would be incredible. Well see, now I'm wondering, just going back to earlier, what if Stephen Amell gets mad because Hangman, you know, got him accused of murder, so they settle their differences at all in?
01:00:26
Speaker
What if Cody Rhodes fails to capture the Ring of Honor World Championship? And Nick Aldis has to defend the NWA World Heavyweight Championship against David Arquette. And David Arquette ends up winning it.
01:00:41
Speaker
We've been talking about WCW a little bit here. Why the fuck not? If All In ends with David Arquette winning the NWA Championship, oh, that's going to be a sweet night in Chicago. It's just Cody's way of sticking it to Vince Russo even more. He's like, my way worked. Is Russo going to be at Starcast? From what I've heard, no. Him and Cornett. He was originally scheduled. I don't think Cornett wanted to go.
01:01:08
Speaker
I think first of all Vince Russo got announced for Starcast and then I think the Bucks and Cody heard about it and Russo's done a lot of shit talking on those guys and so they kind of pulled the plug in immediately like after a few minutes were like nope that's not happening so Russo's time got nixed and as far as Jim Cornette goes
01:01:33
Speaker
Cornette's another guy who's done a lot of shit talking on those guys. I don't think he ever had any interest in going I think and I think to his credit He didn't feel like it would have been right for him to go because it would have been hypocritical Yeah, but I could also see him still wanting to make the money from it
01:01:49
Speaker
I'm sure he does but unless I've missed something in the last few days last I knew like he gave everyone their well wishes he congratulated everyone he congratulated Cody in the box for Selling out the show and doing something that really hasn't been done in a long time like you know for an indie promotion But he also said it would have been really hypocritical of me to then turn around and be like yeah I want in on that and to make some money Less than just working us and he comes out in the middle of all-in and he ends up getting getting like 30 super kicks
01:02:20
Speaker
It's all been building to this. Oh, the crowd would love it. The crowd would love it. This has just been a huge build to him getting, or maybe that was a work the whole time and he's their manager now. I would like, you know what? I'll be honest with you. I would like to see Jim Cornette all at all in. I don't hate everything Jim Cornette says. Just some of the things that Jim Cornette says. How do you feel about his feelings on Chuck Taylor?
01:02:47
Speaker
Chuck Taylor's ruining the fucking business!
01:02:51
Speaker
I don't know. We could probably do a whole podcast episode on Jim Cornette if we really, really wanted to. And he would love that. He would love the fuck out of it. And then he would shit talk us to death for being a couple of dumb fucking marks. You hear so much of Jim Cornette versus Vince Russo stuff. And if I had to side between those two, I would definitely side with Cornette. I still think he has some good ideas. I think he grew up.
01:03:18
Speaker
He's from a different time period. A lot of his philosophies are dated and he would be pissed if he heard me say that because he'd be like, well, what the fuck do you know? You ever booked a major territory? No, I haven't. I'm just a guy who's a fan who studies this shit as much as he can, tries to learn, tries to understand the business, but.
01:03:37
Speaker
I don't know, like we've talked about it so many times that the business changes. It feels like every five years there's a new incarnation of the wrestling business and there's new things that are the thing. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I know completely and it makes sense. Everything evolves. Like if they like just picture if 80s wrestling were still happening right now, if that's exactly if it were just the exact same.
01:04:04
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's certain angles that are hokey. You can't do like $5,000 on a pole. Like you can't have matches where the stipulation is like a large sum of money. Nobody gives a shit because they all know it's a work. So it's harder to get them invested. And I just think doubling down on old school wrestling philosophy. There's certainly things from old school wrestling that like haven't been used in a long time that when you bring them back, they seem like brand new and it's fresh.
01:04:31
Speaker
But I think some of his ideas are, I don't know, they just wouldn't fucking work and he doesn't realize it because he gets angry at anyone who disagrees with him. I would have paid anything to sit next to him while Takahashi took that stair bump and just see his face.
01:04:52
Speaker
But, like, well, how do you, I mean, I know, I guess I kind of know how you feel about that guy. I wasn't expecting the podcast to turn this direction, but, like, fucking, let's go down that road. Why not? What, talk about Cornet? Yeah, Cornet, or tie that into Russo. You asked me if I thought Russo was gonna be at Starcast. That's how we got there. So, do you, do you fucking hate all of Cornet's philosophy? I know you're not a fan. No, no. Are you just offended that he's gone after your guys, or?
01:05:20
Speaker
No, I'm not offended at all. Like if anything, I kind of enjoy watching him go after them on Twitter. And I know the other day he said something and he tagged Kenny Omega and Kenny Omega responded and was just like, I told you to keep my name out of your mouth. Or like he's how did he work? He's like, you've made enough money talking about me. Just don't at me anymore. Yeah. Like Kenny Omega is just done with it. Yeah, I think that's how all those guys feel.
01:05:50
Speaker
But do you consider, I mean, one of the things I've learned since the Starcast shit took place, I didn't realize how many people are actually like defenders of Vince Russo. There are a lot more than I would have expected. I know, me too. It blew my fucking mind. When Cody canceled Russo's time at Starcast, there were a lot of people who felt like it was like this egregious offense.
01:06:15
Speaker
And I thought that the majority of people were on the same page of like, we don't have to actively hate him every day, but we kind of are all in agreement he doesn't need to be around wrestling. He's been banned. He's been shunted as long as he's not knocking on the door every day.
01:06:33
Speaker
Bro, bro, bro, listen, I had a baseball bat. I walked around, dropped blood on people. It was cool. Garrett liked it. And I'd be like, shit, he's right. Garrett liked it. Garrett was a huge Russo fan when he was on the show.
01:06:49
Speaker
Garrett was a huge Vince Russo fan and a huge fan of him, the band. Don't forget. I'm just losing credibility left and right. Not that I really had any to begin with. You have any other embarrassing secrets you should share about me right now before we head out? I have a ton. I have a ton of secrets about my co-host here that could just ruin him publicly.
01:07:09
Speaker
But I'm not going to do it on the podcast. But if you DM me on Twitter, I'll tell you all the ugly stories that you want to hear, which is a good segue into plugging. If you haven't already, you need to follow us on our social media at Wrestle Hangout on Facebook, at Wrestle Hangout on Twitter, at Predetermined Podcasts on Instagram.
01:07:29
Speaker
We also have to take this moment to remind you, if you haven't already, we're giving away two tickets to all in. You have an opportunity to enter to win these tickets, and all you have to do is write us a review on iTunes, screenshot your review before you send it, screenshot it after it posts, and email that to us.
01:07:48
Speaker
predetermine podcast at gmail.com and just you know let us know what you think of the show let us know your favorite episode ride something nice and that's how you enter to win the two tickets when you do that we're gonna have a drawing later this summer and you'll get to go be it all in it's the biggest indie wrestling show of all time who doesn't want to be there we're going you should be going to if you haven't already please enter
All In Contest Announcement
01:08:12
Speaker
Hey, because you don't know when I'm going to draw this thing. It could be next week. I know he said later in the summer. You don't know. Enter now. We can do it anytime. Enter now. What's holding you back? Free all-in tickets? You don't want to go? I mean, you're lying. Writing a review is pretty easy. Like, you know, I've done it for other podcasts. You can do it for ours and you scratch our back, we'll scratch yours. Don't you really want to go to the show? There's a lot of people who wanted to go to all-in who aren't able to go.
01:08:38
Speaker
We have a couple extra tickets. This is an opportunity for you to get in. Yeah, and you know what? If you feel like, I'm gonna enter and I'm not gonna win. We'll get your friends to enter. They'll take you. Have them win the tickets and take you with them. And we may have some time to come up with another way to enter the contest here in the next coming, you know, couple of weeks. We're still working on that. Hey, you know what? I don't have time to come up with contests all day, man. Like, best of the Super Juniors lasted forever. I've got too much to do.
01:09:09
Speaker
Yeah, but we're anxiously waiting to see those reviews rolling for the podcast. And yeah, just email us, predeterminepodcastgmail.com with your reviews. Subject line, I want all in. Garrett, what's on your mind, man?
CM Punk Court Case Victory
01:09:25
Speaker
What's on my mind? What's on my mind is that CM Punk and Colt Cabana won a court case today. They did against WWE's Dr. Ammon. So they're off the hook. Yeah, good for those guys. Why don't you give a little round of applause?
01:09:41
Speaker
But I don't even say, I've said this multiple times on the show, I kind of disappeared from watching wrestling for a while, that time being pretty much seeing punk's entire run. I came back around the time of the pipe bomb, but he was gone shortly after.
01:09:59
Speaker
So I missed everything. And next week, I want it to be CM Punk day. I want you to recommend me some CM Punk matches right now. And you listening, tweet at us, at WrestleHangout, let me know what CM Punk matches I should watch. It doesn't matter if it's WWE, it doesn't matter if it's Ring of Honor, any of the NDs, I will watch whatever you tell me to. Next week, I wanna have a discussion about CM Punk,
01:10:24
Speaker
Right now, I mean, I've obviously seen the interviews, I know he's a very charismatic fellow, haven't watched a lot of his matches, and that seems pretty shameful. I feel like that's a shame on me moment. And it's been a long time since we've previewed an episode for the next week this far in advance, but it seems like an appropriate time, considering he just won the court case, considering he keeps getting brought up in relation to All In, and most importantly, he actually has a UFC fight this Saturday.
01:10:55
Speaker
So if there was ever a time to do a CM Punk episode here at Predetermined to Pro Wrestling Hangout, I would say now is the time. I agree. And please send those at Wrestle Hangout or I'm at Gartet on Twitter. Let me know what matches you want me to watch. I will do my homework and I'll be ready to talk about CM Punk next week. Hey, man, should we get out of here? Let's get out of here. Hit our flipping music.