Transcript
Speaker: ah Welcome to the Spark It podcast with Patrick CJ and Kimaru Baby. Today we are diving into ah very big question.
Speaker: Is there ah relationship without love? If there is, ah such relationships broken or are they just different?
Speaker: We assume love is the foundation of meaningful relationships, but what if that is just a social construct? Today we'll dive into the historical and cultural views on love and relationships, modern examples of relationships that literally function without love.
Speaker: And also whether love is necessary or if simply we have overhyped it.
Speaker: So let's get right in. um Kimaru Eibi, how are you doing today? I'm good. I'm good. I'm excited, honestly, to be shooting this episode with you.
Speaker: And I can't wait to see what we come up with, honestly. But yeah, I'm excited. I'm fine. Amazing. Amazing. So let's start with a big one. What do we mean when we talk about love?
Speaker: who Nice. That's like a really interesting question. Yeah. Do you want me to give like my personal view of what I think love is? Go for it. ah Oh, wow.
Speaker: Damn, I think I wasn't even prepared for that. But, wow, I think love is such a wide topic, honest honestly. But what I would think love is in a few words, it's those deep feelings you have for somebody.
Speaker: And it's also how it's not just about the feeling. It's also how you show yourself. this love to this person so it goes down to how you treat them what do you say to them like so what how you communicate with them it's more of how you treat them how you communicate with them and um what what would be the third one i think those two those two are like mostly on top of the list for me treating how you treat a person and how you communicate with that person Right.
Speaker: Yeah. So from just the fact that it'd be like, oh, I love this person or something of the sort. Right. Right.
Speaker: Interesting. So love is just a feeling, uh, an action.
Speaker: It's, it's both combined feeling and an action. it can be a verb, And what what do they call them? noun?
Speaker: Yes. Both. Yes.
Speaker: It's actually more of a verb, I think, because it it's more of the action, honestly. Yeah. Right. who So do you think love is always essential in relationships?
Speaker: Or can duty, respect, or shared goals replace it? a Oh, wow. Oh, my God.
Speaker: You're asking, like, really interesting questions. Honestly, is it necessary or it's because of duty and obligation? Damn. Yeah.
Speaker: Or even shared the goals. And goals. Yeah. I think it depends. Because for me, I would say in my personal experience or the things I have seen happen around me, I feel like there's people who do it because of shared goals.
Speaker: There's people who've done it because of they feel it's an obligation. Right. And then there's people who just it just happens. Right.
Speaker: Yeah, so ahka it could be all those actually, depending. I think it's very circumstantial. It depends with who is participating in this thing called love and with whom.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. so good So what you're saying is essentially that duty, um respect, and shared goals replace love.
Speaker: Or can it replace love? No. I don't think they do. It's like they sort of coexist together. But for some people, I think they do.
Speaker: Because I have seen ah that there's unions I've seen of people, maybe these that did ah they started a relationship when they were sort of maybe in love. And then at some point they fall out of love, but maybe they had started like a family and they have kids.
Speaker: So because they have already fallen out of love, so duty and these other things kind of replace the love because maybe you are feeling obligated like, oh, I have kids, I have take care of these kids. So some people even stay in marriages and they're not happy or they're not feeling loved or anything of that sort, but they're there for that shared goal of we are raising a family or we have these kids we need to take care of and you don't want to separate and have them like do the co-parenting thing.
Speaker: So they're just there. Right. Right. So guess at some point it can replace depending on context also. Interesting. Yeah.
Speaker: Speaking of context, actually, it's good you have raised me that. Okay. Some cultures
Speaker: view love as practical relationships rather than emotional ones. Do you think that approach is better?
Speaker: Yeah, i think literally, because just like you've said, you know duty, respect, shared goals and stuff like that.
Speaker: I think maybe we jinxed it at some point. I think we jinxed it by watching a lot of soap operas. Because honestly, hear me out. I feel like at some point, eyes especially in traditional African communities, a lot of times you never had to get married because you love a person.
Speaker: It would be maybe like a family has identified maybe a girl in another whatever, and they're like, yeah, we think this would be suitable for our you know our son or or vice versa.
Speaker: Yeah, and then it didn't have to be like, oh, there's the love, the whatever. It's like you you just come together and you go love each other if you have to love each other.
Speaker: Wherever, you go start a family and if there's love, now that's up to you. But I feel like at that point, it did work for that particular point. But right now, things did change a lot.
Speaker: We embraced like this, we like, I don't know, I feel like love or that kind of whatever became so modernized or marriage for the sake of this conversation, it became a bit modernized. And as we also borrowed a lot of cultures from everywhere.
Speaker: So at this point, it's like the concept of love was brought into the conversation. And now it's like, Oh, you know, I don't think I feel, i feel him anymore. Or, you know, for him to, you know, to marry me, I have to feel sort of these very intense feelings and, you know, all these kind of things.
Speaker: So I feel like things have changed because we have borrowed a lot, especially from for africa the African context. We borrowed a lot from outside and we have embraced that and made that to be what we now know of. Because even, for example, right now,
Speaker: There's even places like churches that if you are not married at a church, it's not recognized. Yet even before we embraced, for example, this whole idea of marriage in a church, Africans used to have their way of marrying off their daughters and their sons.
Speaker: Yes. So yeah, I feel like with love and all these things, we embrace other cultures. We borrowed a lot. And now it's more of, yeah, it's more of not necessarily like, oh, I have identified a guy somewhere I like. And now my family is like, yeah, that's it.
Speaker: It's more of at a personal level. What do I want as Kimaru? How do I feel about this person and stuff like that? So yeah, it's very different, honestly. Right. That is very interesting. um So when you speak about this approach being different, although you haven't been able to mention specifically which one you would think is better.
Speaker: Oh, which one I think is better? No. I feel like... Yeah. I'm just wondering if it is better to approach relationships as more like, you know, practical partnerships rather than just emotional ones.
Speaker: And yeah. Yeah. o Okay. Honestly, I feel like what with that if those are the two choices you're giving me, i emotional or practical, I feel like practical wood for me would make a lot more sense.
Speaker: Right. because Because i feel like love is just more of a feeling, but there's a lot of things that go into a relationship. Okay. right ah There's the communication. There's, for example, whatever you say, the shared goals, like what do you want for yourself in the next two years, in the next three years and stuff like that. Do even want to have kids and stuff like that? And I feel like with things like even having kids, it's not just about a feeling.
Speaker: It's about how are we even, for example, going to raise these kids. What type of life do you want to give them? So again, at the end of the day, I don't feel like love would be enough in this context. So I feel like if you if those are the two choices I'm getting between the feeling and the practicality part of it, then I would go for how practical it is for the two people involved in this context.
Speaker: Right. Interesting. Yeah. But what do you think, though?
Speaker: speaking ah Yes, your own question, john like but between those two, feeling and practicality.
Speaker: So, ah first of all, ah for me, how I view love is mostly from a Christian perspective. who um I view mostly from that lens.
Speaker: So from a Christian lens, love is at the heart of everything. Yeah, true.
Speaker: Whether it being what we do, our relationships with others and so forth and all these things, love is at the heart of that. And um because when you look at the Bible, basically, the message is summarized into two things.
Speaker: Love God, love your neighbor as yourself. And when you narrow that down to one thing, the lesson is love. So love is like at the center of yeah ah everything. And I think for me, I would view it from that perspective now.
Speaker: and On whether it's more like a practical partnership or an emotional one is where it can be a hard bargain to pin down.
Speaker: Because for me, for example, i look at love more like a principle. rather than just an affection um that eventually will go away or maybe a feeling that eventually, because it it changes, right?
Speaker: Like how you're feeling now might not be how you'll be feeling the next to two minutes or one. um That's true. Something like that. So I think I would, i viewed more like as a principle.
Speaker: um Yeah.
Speaker: and And you're a Christian. So what's your take on this?
Speaker: right No, I feel like, of course, and sorry, you're saying? No, I was like, when you put on your Christian. The Christian heart. Yes.
Speaker: No, I feel like it definitely does supersede a lot of things. Okay. But also ah because we live in this world,
Speaker: And also we have to be very practical about stuff. I feel definitely it is at the top. As a Christian, it is at the top. But also if you are narrowing it down to, for example, now you are thinking about like a lifetime commitment with this person, I feel like um you also have to think about it in the in a very practical sense.
Speaker: Right. So you have to make sure your are love is... ah enough it's out pouring it's like and it's shaken now what do they call it in the bible and running over and whatever because i feel like Yes, overflowing. Because if it if it is overflowing, then it becomes easy for it to also be practical. Because you would be, you see the way they say love yourself love love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Speaker: So at this point, if fifth if you love yourself and it's overflowing, then it's easy. For example, if you're sharing life life with somebody, for example, you also want to set a family or whatever, it's easy to pour onto them.
Speaker: in the different ways, but it's whether it's the things you do together, how you want to raise a family and stuff like that. Yeah, that's what I would say from probably from a Christian point of view.
Speaker: Interesting. So it has to be really overflowing.
Speaker: you have to make sure you keep replenishing. Actually, it's it's very interesting because when when you look at it from that lens, like from the Christian lens, who love is necessary for any relationship.
Speaker: Of course, yeah. and Because it is the foundation for any. who But when when you move away, because not everyone is a Christian, right?
Speaker: So yeah ah so and yeah when you take off that Christian heart, then you realize that, oh, love is complex.
Speaker: Maybe it's not always necessary for a strong relationship. Yes. And I have seen that somewhere.
Speaker: Yeah, I've seen people get into relationships for convenience.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. Like for what they could get from the relationship. Okay, like for example, I've seen people who have gotten into a relationship for convenience for the things they can get from this other person.
Speaker: Like for example, somebody yeah has gotten to an age, like like let's take an example of guy ex. Guy ex has gotten to an age where they feel like, for example, now they're ready to settle down. Okay?
Speaker: And now at this point, it's like, they are really, really ready. And they just choose, actually it's called the, I've heard people talk about it online too, but I've also seen it happen. yeah The taxi cab theory, something like that.
Speaker: like it's Like when you're waiting for a taxi and then the next one that you, you know, just comes and you know, you hop on. So for the guy X, they're ready to marry and they're ready to settle down and have children or whatever.
Speaker: So they don't even need... They don't take too much time coating or, you know, doing too many things. The next girl they find, even know whether they love them or not, they just...
Speaker: If that person is available, they go with it. And then also I've seen also other people who also like get into relationship for convenience. For example, maybe somebody is feeling lonely and then there's this person who can yeah give them a shoulder to lean on.
Speaker: Or there's this person they have seen potentially who is so good at something that can fulfill ah gap in their life. It doesn't matter what gap. Yeah. So they're like, yeah, they get into a relationship with you. You you think like this person really cares and loves loves you, but the energy is not the same.
Speaker: You definitely maybe totally love them, but for them, they're there because of the benefits they can get from you. That's true. Interesting. Interesting.
Speaker: Yes. so Happens every day, actually.
Speaker: For real?
Speaker: i mean, I really don't know, but I guess there are cases like that that do happen. i think I wouldn't deny it. um Yeah, but it's just kind of interesting.
Speaker: Yeah. and Can we assume that those relationships, do not have any bit of love in them at all. Or maybe they do.
Speaker: Because there's, again, for example, the taxi cab theory that you talk about, which is that,
Speaker: A basically picks up the first girl they meet. That's available. when Yes.
Speaker: When they decide to marry. yeah Yes. But also there there is this concept of love at first sight.
Speaker: but oh no no those two people those two things can actually exist at the same time for some people but for others they can exist separately like there's one person who probably go with the taxi cab theory and then there's a one another one who might also be and they love at first sight there's those two right so it works right But then also i kind of feel like there's something you are trying to say about being in a relationship and there is no love.
Speaker: You can be in a relationship and the there's the love there's the love that is there is one-sided. Yeah. Yeah. Like you're the one who loves your partner, but your partner is, you know, they don't necessarily love you.
Speaker: So what keeps you guys together and surviving and thriving is that love that one person shares. So, and a lot of times what happens is there's a likelihood of the person who loves the other one and the other one doesn't love them.
Speaker: This one who loves this other one will be the one who will always be overcompensating for the love that is not given from the other side. So you could also be in a relationship where the love is not mutual.
Speaker: And then the person who gives this love, they have to they work too hard. For that relationship to so to sustain itself, they work too hard because they have to keep pouring and compensate for the love that is not given from the other side. Yeah.
Speaker: Interesting. Oh, yeah, it happens. There are a lot of relationships like that, though.
Speaker: Right? See, you agree with me. right Right? yes Yes. Yes. For the first time in a while, we are agreeing. It is true. It is true. The thing is,
Speaker: I'm not saying that all relationships are like that. um he so so Okay. Sometimes it can appear as if the other person does not love you. Because that that is the thing with those kind of relationships that you described.
Speaker: Sometimes it can give you the illusion that the other person does not love you. But maybe the person is going through some stuff in their life at that time.
Speaker: Not necessarily that they don't love you. It's that they're going through some stuff that I'm maybe holding them back from being able to, you know, show you the love like you would expect them to.
Speaker: Okay, there could be that. But sometimes, you know, if somebody has been consistent enough for a long period of time. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker: at this point, you can't excuse it. i feel like there's that whatever you said could be true. But a lot of times with the ones I've said, like there's the one that is one-sided love, most of the times it starts as if these people can manipulate you to some extent to feel like they actually love you.
Speaker: So they create sort of, well, how it starts, they create an illusion. of like they love you so they put you in that comfort zone of you feeling you're loved and then of course you reciprocate the love but in essence maybe they were doing that as i said because maybe there was something they really wanted from you so in the beginning before you realize it you would have been like maybe love bombed ah so you would be thinking that you actually loved Okay.
Speaker: But eventually by the time you come to realize it's a one-sided love, you've given, given, given so much. And also at some point now, because the pretense, they see, of course they were pretending at first.
Speaker: So at some point, their pretense they stopped the pretense and now they become they they embrace their true selves. So and you know realize that eventually you realize like, oh, wow, what's happening?
Speaker: So apparently they definitely started you off as if they loved you. And then at some point they they dropped the ball. And now you get your senses and now you realize it's a really one-sided love. Yeah. So that does exist.
Speaker: Like people do that a lot of times. Yeah. Yeah. Like how do you end up in a one-sided love?
Speaker: Leave.
Speaker: What are you waiting for? Honestly, I feel like after you realize, for example, that you're going through such a situation ah and this person doesn't really love you and doesn't care for you and maybe there something just yeah from you, you should be able to just yeah pick yourself up and leave because I don't feel if that's how that love is and it's that one-sided, don't feel like it will ever change.
Speaker: It doesn't change. Actually, it never changes. Right. Yeah. It never changes. Right.
Speaker: So they'll always be giving you breadcrumbs. And if that's not the um the thing you want to subscribe to, then you better leave.
Speaker: Don't you think that people could also try like working things out though, before just deciding to leave?
Speaker: You can. You know, I think there's a difference between when you have a normal. Yeah. Especially. Yeah, continue.
Speaker: ah continue I'm saying i think there's a difference between having a normal healthy relationship and going maybe through an obstacle or something and then maybe or maybe going through storms in a relationship.
Speaker: and you And at some point you guys talking ah talking about it and trying to work things out. and that now now that did that And then it's also different for they they the kind of whatever I've given.
Speaker: The kind of example i was giving was very specific. Somebody like bombed you because they wanted something specific from you, which is why you guys got into a relationship. And then at some point, because they don't need to sugarcoat anything anymore, they now show their true colors because they were not there for their love.
Speaker: Maybe they were there for that specific thing they wanted from you. yeah For this particular relationship, once you realize that that's what is happening for me from a personal perspective, I wouldn't recommend trying to work things out because from the very beginning, there was no love.
Speaker: It was because of something things ah specific that this person wanted from you. So you can't really change this person. But if it's just a normal relationship where love is reciprocated and you're going through a rough patch, then I mean, by all means, sit down, talk about it and find ways you could, you know, find yourself to each other again.
Speaker: But if it's the other one, it's not worth it. It's going to drain you.
Speaker: I sound like a relationship coach.
Speaker: No, but
Speaker: So historically, he Marriages weren't about love. I mean, not always. They were about survival, alliances,
Speaker: oh family duty. Yeah. yeah Do you think those relationships were more stable?
Speaker: Honestly, I don't even know if I can speak about those ones because I don't.
Speaker: because I know. So let me give you this example. Okay.
Speaker: For example,
Speaker: my my my grandma, her marriage to my granddad was an arranged to marriage. ah and And they really lived to very long together until when grandpa passed on.
Speaker: um okay And there are very many other cases like that basically in my community that I could point to.
Speaker: But also cases basically where marriages were organized, for example, as a way to maybe bring peace between warring communities, like communities that are fighting each other.
Speaker: And so marriage is used as a way. And I think like that was used a lot actually in many parts of Africa, like in the kingdoms. True.
Speaker: Whether being the Zulu kingdom and others, yeah.
Speaker: yeah so you you know you necessarily might not really be in love with that person or something but you know
Speaker: yeah there was something you said earlier which is like you guys maybe go and find it out because you just take it to somebody ah you figure it out whether you need to love each other right yeah like they they have been those kind of relationships and for some reason some of them have really been very stable
Speaker: some of them yeah do you think but what do you think about them
Speaker: Okay, honestly, I feel like, for example, I think there was a time were talking about who should propose and who should not propose and all that. I feel also with these types of marriages, when that when they used to happen, people didn't know any different.
Speaker: Like that was a social construct at that point. Like we're just going identify somebody for you and we're going to arrange this marriage for you. And we think this is who you should marry because either they'll give you status in the community, yeah they'll give you children, whatever, whatever.
Speaker: That was what was working then. And they didn't know any different. There was not this whole thing of, oh, I need to love somebody. and need to see you to find out what they love, what they want. Should I be hiking with them or not? There was no that.
Speaker: So I think the reason why it worked then or or maybe, yeah, it worked then and might not work now was because they didn't know any different. That was it. If your parents said, like, you're going to marry from this household and we think that girl can give us this or we think that man would give us some wealth or some status in the community or whatever.
Speaker: I think it just worked because, I mean, that's all you know. That's all you're exposed to. So it had to work. And I feel like going back because I've i've i've read stories and I've also heard even also from my like grandparents or people they knew, I feel like those also those marriages used to be they used to be stable in the context of it's like their roles are so defined.
Speaker: They were so defined at the time. Yeah, yeah. Like the man was supposed to provide for the family. That was his role. The woman was supposed to sometimes just stay at home and give birth to children.
Speaker: And that was her role and take care of the household. So it was almost like really, really straightforward. And I feel like it worked for them at that point because they were so, is everything was so defined.
Speaker: This is how we do it. This is also your role as a wife. This is your role as a husband or, you know, those types of relationships. So I think it was stable for sure because of how the social construct was at that particular point.
Speaker: Right. So from...
Speaker: Were these kind of marriages there ah within the Kikuyu community historically? Yes, they were there. That's what they were doing.
Speaker: were arranged marriages, by the How were they?
Speaker: ah you it think it's almost the same for Omoto communities. yeah And I think I'll have to do a bit of reading on that. But yeah, there was arranged marriages even in the Kikuyu community, honestly.
Speaker: Yeah, it's the same. It cuts across.
Speaker: Were they stable?
Speaker: Yes. I don't know if they were that, I don't know. ah Honestly, for stability and all that, I can't talk about it honestly because I didn't experience it firsthand.
Speaker: But I think for the people who did it because of and because of the stories that have been passed down, it seemed to have worked out. I feel like right now people keep divorcing. But then the stories we hear or that have been passed down, you would hear somebody was married like 50 years and whatever separated them was death from their partner.
Speaker: So it kind of seems to have worked for them honestly. So yeah, that's what I would say. But right now, so people are getting married and then two years down the line, they're like, mm-mm, bye-bye. ah Yeah.
Speaker: and And by the way, much for you, you know. Yes, actually, just to speaking of that, ah you would think that right now, with the level of freedom, rights, access to information that we have, we wouldn't be having um arranged marriages.
Speaker: But apparently, actually, today, arranged marriages still exist. They so day do. do. There was a time actually.
Speaker: ah There was a time I was watching a TikTok. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, you were telling us about your TikTok. Yeah, there was a time I was watching a TikTok and there was this guy who was like, hey, I miss the days that people could just get into a situation like their parents would arrange a marriage for them.
Speaker: Look at me now. I'm in my 30s. I think it was 38 or something. It was like, I need somebody to arrange for me a marriage. Yes.
Speaker: And people are in the comment section. They're like, yeah, I think me too, me too, me too.
Speaker: But what was your question that interrupted you?
Speaker: hu so
Speaker: So people were like, you know, they want to they want to be arranged some marriage. Yes, it's like, comment section was so hilarious.
Speaker: Everyone's like, me too. I miss those days. It's not like they even experienced them. Maybe for them, if some of them, it's just stories they've heard. But clearly, I guess they're stuck at the point where you can no longer meet potential people, you know, that easily.
Speaker: so maybe they feel like at this point, honestly, somebody should just organize something for me.
Speaker: It was so funny, actually. Maybe. Maybe some of them are just joking. Maybe some of them have been frustrated relationships they've had.
Speaker: o True, especially that part of frustrations. I think so too.
Speaker: Yeah. So speaking of um arranged marriages existing today, ah do you think love can grow in a relationship or does it need to be there from the start?
Speaker: That's a very interesting question. Can I tell you what some I've heard some ladies say? There's people who usually say There's people who usually say, you know what, just go. yeah so Like maybe somebody has been has been introduced to somebody. I've heard ladies tell other ladies, you know what, women, we can learn to love.
Speaker: We can grow to love somebody. So you know what, just go ahead, get married to this person, you will grow into the love.
Speaker: Oh, you will grow to love them. You see what I mean? and Like literally, I've had women giving women that kind of advice. So ah my personal, okay, or maybe personal perspective per se, but I think love is important in any relationship.
Speaker: But I also feel like, yeah, you can grow into it.
Speaker: interesting It's important at the start, but there's people who can grow into it or you can grow into it. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Speaker: You can grow into it. I guess it's very circumstantial.
Speaker: so So ah you you you you are saying that he those women who that say, you know what, just go into but relationship, you will grow to love that person with the time.
Speaker: and You actually think that is true? Yes, it's true.
Speaker: Most of the times for those circumstances when women advise women to do that, it really is like, for example, um maybe you you you've not been able to find love by yourself.
Speaker: Okay. So maybe somebody is, people are recommending for you certain people. they're now helping you like sort of give you like oh float some ideas or bring people closer to you or introduce. Okay.
Speaker: The word is introduce. They're trying to introduce you to people yeah and maybe they can clearly see this guy yeah has potential. You get that's the one especially who give you that type of advice.
Speaker: Yes. When they can see like the guy can potentially like make a good husband. Maybe it's only that you, you have not really gotten into the love part. Right. That's when they give that kind of advice most of the times.
Speaker: They're like, you know, this person is They just grow to love them.
Speaker: But now I'm not disputing the argument you make that this is true.
Speaker: But I think that in other cases, it might not be, at least not always. Mm-hmm. not Yeah, I think da there is a potential that it can be a disaster.
Speaker: Yes, waiting to happen. It can be a disaster. Yeah. If you walk into yeah this relationship where you know you're like you're hoping that you'll grow to love this person and that person does not love you.
Speaker: ah something like that. And they eventually...
Speaker: Yeah, and I don't know. It seems to me like, I don't know, like a recipe for disaster.
Speaker: You know what I have learned my years of this whatever, trying this love thing? I feel like there's no o there' no perfect way to love or to find love or there's no manual for love and people do it like differently.
Speaker: So I feel like at this point, whatever works for people. Yeah. You just go for it, but definitely with that one, it it could work out. And also it can be definitely a total disaster as you've said.
Speaker: So, but if you really want to give it a shot, you better be sure.
Speaker: like don't just get married, honestly, immediately. And then it doesn't work out. You will regret it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think it goes both ways, you know, for both men and women and any other genders.
Speaker: Yeah. um So that's true. Speaking of that, of people getting into a relationship, Mostly oh for economic reasons, you know?
Speaker: oh good guy or He he has a salary, but you know, he's doing well economically. oh ah Getting into relationship for political reasons.
Speaker: Maybe as a way to access positions of power. Oh, yes. exactly. Obsessed with people who have families. Yes.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Could be like a man going after ah woman who is a, you know, a politician or maybe he's in a position of authority.
Speaker: And then use that as a way to also in like, you know, activate his political career ah the other way around too. Yeah. And I'm just wondering, these kind of relationships, can they be just as fulfilling
Speaker: as let's say relationships based entirely on love?
Speaker: Yes. Yes and no. I think they can be fulfilling depending on whether the needs are being met. Like, for example, by the time you are identifying a person and you want to just marry them because maybe it will stabilize you enough and people would think like it makes you a good leader because you have a family and some sense of leadership in you because you can lead your own family.
Speaker: But also on the part of your partner, what is what was the bargain for them? Like maybe that was what you wanted, but there must have been, for them to have agreed to probably they settle down with you, there must have been something they also maybe saw in you or they wanted from you.
Speaker: Are those two things being met? ah you Has your need been met and has their need also been met? if you if those If each of you, ah each of the needs are being met then I feel like it can be fulfilling yeah just as just a normal relationship but if there is a discrepancy somewhere it's not it's not gonna work out I feel like when it comes to love it's one of those things that sort of most of times has to be very reciprocated if it's not then there's always gonna be issues right
Speaker: ride Right, right. I agree. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. yeah But I also agree. i think from this conversation, can clearly see that love hasn't always been the standard for relationships.
Speaker: like Relationships have existed for practical reasons throughout history. could be economic reasons,
Speaker: political reasons, familial reasons. yes Yes, exactly. That's very true.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe... Bringing back to today, relationships today, um do you see any examples of modern in relationships that function without love?
Speaker: e That are maybe like, huh, yes. ah In my personal, now from my own personal, whatever experience that the things I have seen behind the scenes,
Speaker: I have seen those type of types so
Speaker: i've seen those types of relationships, honestly. The love is very, very much there. No love at all. What are the examples of those relationships? No, you know, maybe i maybe it's people I know personally and people might not know them.
Speaker: Yeah, but I know people who are doing who are doing this love out of, okay, or maybe they're living with each other out of obligation. And especially when you, I feel like a lot of times it happens when you will have kids.
Speaker: If, for example, you are married or you're in a relationship and there's no children attached to it, it's very easy when the love is dead for people to walk away. But as soon as the kids come into the picture, then it becomes a different conversation and people stay for for the children, even when the love is not there anymore.
Speaker: Yeah. And others would stay for the children and for the wealth because they don't want their property to be split or something of this much. So, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, that's true. okay
Speaker: That is so true. Yeah, like co-parenting. Which ones do you know, by the way? yeah Ah, yeah. See, now people are avoiding the you're living under the same roof.
Speaker: How does it work? You're not parenting and you're living under the same roof. You're not separating. Yes. It's actually very interesting. mean So there is this case i actually read about um some guys.
Speaker: So this couple... had a girl and you know, stuff happened, you know, sometimes and they, they divorced.
Speaker: Oh no. For some reason. And, but the interesting part is, no, I think that, yeah. So they were living though um under the same roof.
Speaker: And so because for the guy, the guy knows, okay, you know, she's done with me. I am done with her too. And so he starts bringing women into the into the house.
Speaker: And then this woman goes banana.
Speaker: ah Yeah, I would have assumed that would definitely happen.
Speaker: When you think about that...
Speaker: Honestly, that's very crazy. I feel like if you guys decide to divorce, maybe it's time to give each other space so that you can you can end up living your own lives. Because if you, at some point, you guys loved each other, regardless of the fact that you've already separated or divorced, I feel like there's always going to be that feeling of, maybe you might even feel jealous, like in the context of that lady, when you see that, oh, literally your partner has actually moved on.
Speaker: And now they can even bring other women over. So there would be that aspect. So if it was up to me, I'll probably say maybe just don't live together, especially if you've already been divorced.
Speaker: There's no need. especially because you want to move on, you want to start your own life and, you know, do your own things, you know? So if if somebody wants to bring over women or men, whichever, i don't want to feel like somebody's rubbing it on my face that they have moved on. yeah, yeah maybe I would probably choose the piece of just being in my own personal space.
Speaker: Oh Right. Mm-hmm. Interesting. interesting because it doesn and it doesnt have you
Speaker: yeah i Honestly, I would agree with you, too. I would agree with you. and actually i think like if things have fallen apart in your relationship,
Speaker: it' it's ah especially if it's going to the level of a divorce, It's probably just much better for each one of you to stay in your own spaces and then, you know, just do the visits and what and all those other kind of stuff such that you can allow each other the freedom and space to maybe heal and move on.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: yeah ah have you heard of platonic life partners no how does that work school me
Speaker: ah no that's that's new honestly they are introducing too many things in the space I am not ready I have not caught up ah tell me tell me about it
Speaker: So, uh, platonic, um, life partners are basically, uh, friends who live together and support each other without romance.
Speaker: Ooh, sounds fantastic. you Can you share the bills? and
Speaker: Wait, wait, wait. Does it mean because we are platonic life partners, I cannot now even go ahead and get married at some point? I've committed to you.
Speaker: That's a good question. I don't know. I would love to know. I think you can go ahead. ah
Speaker: Yeah, but... yeah like i when i dig When you think...
Speaker: yeah you wanted to know ah if it's like a lifetime commitment, you see, like with marriage, it's like, this is it, this is me and you. So for platonic, now that there is no romance and whatever, is it like a lifetime commitment?
Speaker: Or at some point, I can be like, okay, I'm done with this. I can move on with my life. I want a romantic partner.
Speaker: I mean, I would think that the assumption is that it is long term. as As from the concept, platonic life partners not today you can't to do without the romance package woman that's a it's very essential it's very important
Speaker: ah
Speaker: I'm not subscribing. so ah her hip Fair enough though. Yeah. um So when you think about platonic life partners, or basically those kinds of relationships, do you think they are a better model than traditional relationships?
Speaker: See my facial expression? no you yeah yeah yeah I Honestly, I think at this point, because things have become so, I don't know, different, i would say to each their own. yeah For example, that's what I would say, to each their own.
Speaker: but But for me, honestly... Yeah, let's just stick to to each their own. But on a personal, my preference, just go traditionally.
Speaker: I'm not subscribing to any CG Platonic Life Partner. No.
Speaker: Whatever tickles your fancy, you go for it.
Speaker: Yeah, that's what I would think, honestly. Mm-hmm. Yeah, but I think they definitely an interesting type of relationships to probably explore.
Speaker: Yeah. And see. For people who don't want package, the romance package, then it makes sense for sure. Yeah. Yeah. For real, honestly, if somebody is not interested with that, on you know, with the romance and all that, it kind of makes sense yeah to have that kind of arrangement.
Speaker: But anyway, I don't know in the long term how sustainable it Or they'll be out here and then we'll start saying they're cheating on their life partner, on their platonic life partner at some point.
Speaker: Hopefully not. When they get out of the arrangement. oh yeah Yeah. But I don't know. Whatever the relationship, I hope they don't get to cheat.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure. True, true, true, true. Everybody should stay faithful. Yeah. At least they try to. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: At least they try to. their best. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. So you you hinted on this a bit early on about transactional relationships, you know, like marriages of convenience.
Speaker: oh Oh, maybe a good example actually is like, you know, sugar relationships.
Speaker: You know sugar relationships? shuday Sugar daddy, sugar mommy, like those kind of relationships? Uh-huh.
Speaker: Uh-huh. Do they ever get married for those ones or it's just the benefits?
Speaker: Exactly. So my question is because these are relationships. Yeah. Because the point is we are looking at relationships in general. so Are these relationships then less valid because love is not at the center of them?
Speaker: o Good question. I think they're as valid as the other relationships.
Speaker: They're as valid as the other relationships. as long as everybody in this relationship is satisfied. Like whatever the convenience you are looking for, you get it.
Speaker: So if somebody is a sugar baby to somebody, maybe that person needed the the romance, the good times, and they get it. I've not heard of a sugar baby.
Speaker: There is sugar babies. Sugar got babies and sugar daddies. Now if you're somebody with sugar baby and he's your sugar daddy in this context, I'm saying at the end of the day, if it's mutually beneficial, i think they're also as valid because if everybody is getting what they want, maybe a sugar baby needs the money and a sugar daddy, maybe there's something they're looking for the company, the good times and whatever, and they're getting it. Then again, at this point, I feel it's as valid as just a relationship that we're
Speaker: Maybe there's love and people are feeling like, oh, I love him. She loves me. You know. Yeah. they Interesting. I think at the end of the day, it's the the benefits, the mutually beneficial, whatever.
Speaker: the kind of reciprocating that comes with these types of relationships, whether it's love, is the love reciprocated? If it is these marriages or relationships of convenience, whatever the convenience either party is looking for, is it being reciprocated? Are they receiving what they bargained for? If they do receive what they bargained for, then I think it makes sense.
Speaker: Yeah. Fair enough, fair enough. Yeah. Interesting though. I mean, it appears though to me that we are seeing a lot of these kind of relationships growing today.
Speaker: Yes. Like a lot of relationships that are becoming transactional. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: That's actually very true. I don't know. It's more. that Yeah. What do you think is causing that? Do you think it could be social media or dating apps that are making them become more transactional?
Speaker: I actually think those two things that you've mentioned play a big role in these things becoming transactional. Because, for example, I think with dating sites, I've had people who go there, for example, because they want to maybe experience a type of a woman.
Speaker: And then there's also maybe some women would go there because they feel like a certain type of man would give them a certain type of lifestyle. You get? Yeah. And they definitely they look for that specific thing they're looking for and that dating site gives them that.
Speaker: And then with social media also, there's also the pressure to live a certain way, to look a certain way, to do things a certain way. So I feel definitely those two are a major player into how transactional these things become. Also, because for example, if I'm dating somebody and then maybe we are flaunting our lives on social media and I have a friend and they're also doing the same, there's also going to be this sort of comparison You are here comparing your relationship with your friend, maybe, or the people you see online.
Speaker: And maybe you feel like, oh, but their partner does more for them. So you are here out competing each other. So it turns up being more transactional, honestly, than the you know the traditional feeling of I love this person.
Speaker: They are my person. Behind the scenes, they treat me better or whatever. Now we are out here. We are trying to showcase the kind of lifestyles we want to live. want to out-compete each other.
Speaker: Yeah. So it ends it ends up being more transactional. And how much can my partner do for me?
Speaker: Right. No longer about you're my ride and I. Or die. know. ah Very it true. Very true. That one is becoming i whatever of the past.
Speaker: Oh my God, I feel at some point, to our maybe our kids in the future, they'll be having this conversation and they'll be like, oh, are you ready to die? oh Oh my God, that was something of the past.
Speaker: We're talking about what can you give me and what can I give you and that's it.
Speaker: Yeah, so.
Speaker: Well, I think clearly... we can We can see all around us that relationships today evolving beyond love based models.
Speaker: Yes. We are now seeing new structures emerging. Yeah. Yeah, relationships that that's true doesn't fit the so-called love-based relationships. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. That's actually very true. Things are changing and they're changing pretty fast. So we need to keep up. I know. I know.
Speaker: oh yeah. Yeah. includ To love and find authentic love right now. I feel like at some point, it's going to be like a social currency to sort of find, um you know, that type of traditional love. It will be something people will be bragging about.
Speaker: Yeah. yeah Because it will be it will not be so common at some point. Yeah. Yeah. But Kimaru, baby, let's be real.
Speaker: can
Speaker: relationship actually last if there is no love honestly according to me i feel like there needs to be some certain percent of love percentage of love it can just be dry dry
Speaker: I don't know. Yeah, I feel like, I don't know. I think love is important, honestly.
Speaker: Maybe for some people, maybe it might last for them, but I feel for me, I feel like there needs to be some element of love into it.
Speaker: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Like love is love is sort of like part of the package.
Speaker: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, that's it. There needs to be love. It can just be like... I ah was... No.
Speaker: What? So a relationship cannot last ah without love.
Speaker: According to me, my personal perspective, I feel like love needs to be... It plays a very big role in a relationship being sustainable. Mm-hmm. And especially in the context of the love, we talked about the outpouring love.
Speaker: Yeah. It's a very important thing.
Speaker: ah You know, i was listening to... So, there is this Adventist preacher in Kenya.
Speaker: You probably know her. She's a woman. The controversial one. I have forgotten her name. Is it Elizabeth or something like that? I know her.
Speaker: She was saying,
Speaker: you don't do but you know't marry to be to be to be happy or that there's happiness in marriage.
Speaker: ah hu and I was just wondering, like you know, She was pushing more towards the idea that, you know what? Marriage is not for happiness love. I was like, okay.
Speaker: What is it for, mom ah And? ah It appears to me that she would disagree with you.
Speaker: i think honestly no no no i honestly that's what i think she would agree with you other he yeah she would i agree with you yeah then there needs to be love
Speaker: if i don't love somebody she would disagree with you and You disagree with me? Okay, but for me, I think, as I said, there was a point I made at some point that as far as love is concerned, I feel like I'm not going to listen to a preacher, for example.
Speaker: I feel like, not not to sound like rude or anything, but I feel like love does not come with any manual. I'm going to read my Bible, and then I'm going to go with what I feel works best for me and my partner.
Speaker: yeah Like that's the word going to exercise in my life. Like what works for me, there is no ballpark yeah for this is how you do love. This is how you do a relationship.
Speaker: It differs from one person to the other. I could have probably in my past loved somebody or been in a relationship with the person. And the way I would love a partner I have right now is not the same. ah i Like the same love maybe be I love that person.
Speaker: So again, because of all these things that are, that you know all these things that play into it then would say like love keeps evolving depending also on who you are with what you're doing the circumstances surrounding your relationship so yeah that's why i don't think i would count on somebody's exact advice on whether on how love should exactly be done yeah yeah Absolutely. That's why I don't think I would advise somebody on how they should do love.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. What would you do? They usually say follow your heart. i would say, follow your heart. Follow your heart.
Speaker: um If you're in love with the person ex and you feel they are the one you're in love with, You know, go do your thing.
Speaker: It makes you both happy. Go for it. I know. Right? Exactly. Yes. Yes, please.
Speaker: did No, I i totally, totally agree with you, by the way. I don't think there is any manual for these things. You go for whatever, wherever your heart leads you. That's where you go. Yes.
Speaker: Yes. Yes. And then you create an environment.
Speaker: when you think about it though, there are relationships, just as we have discussed earlier, that appear not to have something like love in them.
Speaker: What keeps those relationships together? The arrangement,
Speaker: but the arrangement, yes, the benefits. And if the person is receiving whatever but benefit they signed up for in the first place, if they're both receiving what they signed up for in the first place, that's what keeps them going because everyone gets the end of the bargain, the end of the bargain.
Speaker: he
Speaker: Right. That's how it works. That's why they'll be sustainable. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: That is interesting. I know, it is. so
Speaker: yeah. do Do you do you and then think, since there are all these benefits and what and so forth, do you think we maybe underestimate the power of companionship, um of mutual respect,
Speaker: um and even shared ambition, like in relationships.
Speaker: Yeah. I think we do downplay it sometimes. who
Speaker: Yeah. I think it is downplay sometimes. Sometimes, just like you said earlier. ah
Speaker: Yeah. Like sometimes, ah you know, something you mentioned something you mentioned before is that sometimes people like go into relationships, not necessarily because they love the other person. Maybe it's just because they're feeling lonely.
Speaker: And so they just need a companion. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe others just basically use... relationships as a method to gain some respect and maybe other benefits that are associated with relationships.
Speaker: Yeah. I think most of the times we never want to have that sort of conversation in the context of companionship, shared goals, ambitions and stuff like that, because we've masked relationship into this.
Speaker: It's just love. That's why maybe even when you think about sugar mommies or sugar babies or whatever, it will be frowned up upon yeah because the construct of what a relationship should be, it's love.
Speaker: That's why i mean most of the time people would avoid those types of conversations where you think and or maybe don't play the role of maybe companionship and these shared goals and whatever in a relationship.
Speaker: Because you're only just thinking, oh, it's supposed to be about love. And then these other things now can come. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Interesting. You know, yeah but yeah we...
Speaker: Just as from what you said, the yeah understanding, and even this is what I believe in, is that when you're in love,
Speaker: then there is a likelihood that you will be happy in that relationship. Right? It's like yeah love equals happiness.
Speaker: Now it might not be maybe as a simplistic as I have put it, but I would like to think that when, when there is love, there is ah level of happiness.
Speaker: that you get to have in that relationship. Yeah. Because I think you can basically see, like, for example, when couples are fighting and what, and all those kind of stuff, happiness is yeah out the window and stuff like that.
Speaker: Momentarily. When you think about it,
Speaker: Yes, momentarily. In some cases, permanently. oh no.
Speaker: But when you think about such a conception ah love and happiness, and then you think um about people who are in relationships without love,
Speaker: Like, do you think such people end up being unfulfilled or feeling unfulfilled?
Speaker: The ones who are not in a relationship and the ones who are what?
Speaker: So, like, that was people who end up in relationships without love.
Speaker: Ah. And the ones who are now an not in a relationship. So, the idea... Yes. No, they are in our relationship.
Speaker: But they are in our relationship without love. You remember? you were the one that slayed their relationships that existed without love.
Speaker: So my question is just, for those are relationships,
Speaker: since happiness is tied to love, Do these people actually end up feeling unfulfilled or are they still happy?
Speaker: they i think it could be both.
Speaker: it could I think it could be both depend it could be both depending. Because if it's, this other a like, from the word go, it was a literal personal choice from the beginning, and you stick to that choice, you're definitely going to be happy, especially if you're getting the end of the bargain.
Speaker: But if at some point now you start wanting more, the more that you're not receiving, so you've changed the term. You've changed the terms and conditions. then you're going to be unfulfilled.
Speaker: yeah Yeah. So it could it could be either, depending.
Speaker: Hey, you have change terms and conditions, then boom.
Speaker: So it appears that um some relationships can survive and even Thrive without love.
Speaker: But of course, the dynamics are different. Yes, exactly. Totally, totally, totally.
Speaker: Yeah. But so do you think we have been conditioned to think of love as the ultimate goal of life?
Speaker: Yes. Because, you know, like, even as kids, you know, we are made to think like, you know, you're looking for your prince charming. Right in shining armor.
Speaker: Sweep off. Sweep me off my feet. Please. Yes. Yes.
Speaker: No, I think we really romanticized love. And we were as you said, we have been conditioned to look at it a certain way. Yeah. And sometimes I feel like realistically speaking, yeah when you look at it in that one very sighted way specifically, then there's also little it's likely that you might um have false expectations around love.
Speaker: And what sort of yeah relationships should look like, which can be very disappointing. And that's why I was also kind of think why maybe relationships and marriages are falling apart quite easily nowadays.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I also feel like, actually, that um the media and pop culture has hugely, hugely influenced our belief that every relationship must be based on love. 100%.
Speaker: is one is license Yeah. Yeah. So we have been made to think that that we we are chasing love.
Speaker: But, you know, what if maybe in a reality what we are chasing is actually something else, not love? Could be stability. Could be shared values.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: No, honestly, you're making a lot of sense. Stuff like that maybe might matter more.
Speaker: Actually, yeah I agree with you 100%. Like the love, yes, it's very important. But especially when you're looking at, for example, a a more long-term relationship and when you really want to settle down with people, I feel like, or somebody, love cannot just be enough.
Speaker: You need all these other things that you're talking about. It's like all of these things have to balance each other out. The love is important. And also these things, these are the things that coexist with the love.
Speaker: So you can't just look at it like, Oh my God, I love this person. But do you have shared goals? Do you, do you have yeah yeah whatever, whatever it is you're looking for and you want as a person.
Speaker: Do you have similar interests, for example? Or do you support their interests? Or would you compromiseris yeah compromise for them at some point? All these things, yeah. so yeah
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. It's like, definitely. yeah Because for some people, removing love from the equation makes the relationship stronger.
Speaker: For others, it makes it weaker. ah hi Oh, yes. I know, I know. That's what I was saying. There's no one way of doing this thing.
Speaker: It's like whatever works for you, you have to figure out what works for you and go for it.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Clearly, though. Love is... Maybe love might not be the only... Or even at best, might not be the only foundation for a successful relationship.
Speaker: There has to be something more. Not just the love.
Speaker: I think that's true, honestly. Yeah.
Speaker: Oh my god this's ah This skit I came across, I think on Facebook or maybe YouTube, where this guy basically says, you know, he loves this woman very much and stuff like that.
Speaker: And oh the woman was like, look, I love you too. I appreciate that. But are we going to eat love? Mm-hmm.
Speaker: I've heard that a lot. You know, love is not going to feed us.
Speaker: Oh, no. Oh, no. Uh-huh.
Speaker: Yeah. So, yeah. You know, like, when I think about that and all this other stuff you said, all I just see is that, yeah.
Speaker: Love might not be the only or even the best foundation for a successful relationship.
Speaker: Honestly, I feel it cannot be the only, but it is among the best, like the top, top whatever for a good foundation of a relationship. And then of course, these are the things. yeah I agree. All these are the good stuff.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: I have a quick question. This is very personal.
Speaker: I'll try and answer. I can promise. oo have have you ah Have you ever been in a relationship that worked without love?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Worked without love. yeah But I have been in a relationship which was was a one-sided love.
Speaker: Yeah. Not entirely that there was no love, but one-sided. Yes.
Speaker: As in you you were giving way more than the other person.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure. That's true. Oh, man.
Speaker: Okay. It's fine. You don't need to answer that. Have I've already answered you. I've said for sure, yeah, have been in one that you give more than you receive. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah. I mean, we just wanted to know, I suppose, if it was, you know, you that were giving, you know, a bigger share and ah the other person was giving. Yeah, that's what I was telling you.
Speaker: When we began this this conversation, those types of, that kind of love, you end up, overcompensating because this person is not pouring into you.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And can be exhausting actually. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. So have you ever been in new one yourself? What's the biggest what?
Speaker: but it
Speaker: um mean Wait, before you ask me, have you ever been in a relationship that didn't have love or it was one-sided?
Speaker: yeah i Yeah, I think so. yeah Which one? One love or one-sided?
Speaker: ah i I would say both, actually. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. But I think the one-sided one was particularly really different.
Speaker: Okay. Not we? Yeah. so It left a mark.
Speaker: A special one. Interesting. think Oh, wow. Okay. Because I had to work 10 times or 20 times harder
Speaker: to impress that person and didn't work.
Speaker: My Lord, are sorry.
Speaker: See what I was saying? When it's a one-sided thing, you have to overcompensate. ah Keep pouring into this thing to sustain it. And it is draining. Interesting.
Speaker: Oh, wow. It is. Yeah. It is. Yeah. Which was why I was telling you that I i agree with you when you said when people find themselves in such a relationship, they probably and would need to walk away. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: You know, based on their own assessment anyway. ah That's true. What's going on. Yeah. Yeah. And if it is something that can be salvaged or not.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Very true. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. So I wanted to ask you.
Speaker: about ahha what do you think is the biggest myth about love, um any relationships that you think people need to unlearn?
Speaker: o that's It's always gonna v me it's gonna be very blissful. like it's like And they lived happily ever after, just because you love each other. Ever after.
Speaker: Yeah, happily ever after. honest Honestly, I think that's like the biggest myth about love. that's ah It's actually very unsustainable. Love, I think love comes with a lot of ups and downs because it's you are meeting this person, you've got to learn them.
Speaker: There's going to be a lot of things that might change even in your relationship with time. So, yeah. It's always going to be, there's going to be good times and bad times and all that. So the bliss that they keep talking about happily ever after, it's definitely a myth.
Speaker: Yeah. That you need, you need to deconstruct to be able to enjoy our relationship. Yeah. Right.
Speaker: Interesting. and they lived happily ever after. ah In fairy tales.
Speaker: Yes, in fairy tales only. Exactly, in fairy tales only. It doesn't happen in reality. so
Speaker: But there are relationships that actually ah really happily ever after.
Speaker: Honestly, have ah relative of mine he that I would think for them is actually that. don't think it's very subjective. Of course, they might have had their own issues. Yeah?
Speaker: No, I think that's kind of very subjective. Also, I think you can also have a happily, a relatively happily ever after, depending on how you handle your issues.
Speaker: Like you're going through issues issues in your relationships. How do you communicate? How do you communicate with each other? How do you you, you have an argument? How do you find your way back to each other?
Speaker: Like it's more about, how you even solve problems or communicate in that relationship that will determine if it will be a little bit more blissful. Or because if you don't know how to communicate and you're in an argument, it means that an argument that could have lasted a day is lasting you a month.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. So this whole month, maybe there is no bliss. Yet there you could have had the bliss a day after the argument. But because you didn't know how probably to communicate, then it becomes that your storms become longer when they could have been shorter. So I guess also depends on how you handle issues.
Speaker: Interesting. So it's not a fairytale after all. Yes, it's not. There's going to be ups and downs, but find india find a way to deal with those.
Speaker: Yeah. But when you think about it, real life stories challenge the idea that love is the only foundation for our relationship, our connection.
Speaker: That's true. Yeah. Very, very true. These foundations are built on different stuff. Some are built on love.
Speaker: Some are built on money. Some are built on political influence.
Speaker: Children. Some are built on
Speaker: Exactly. Yeah. oh yeah. Yeah. Interesting, though. Yeah. But when when you look at relationships now, right?
Speaker: You know, we've we've looked at relationships from a historical point to our time today. And I'm just wondering, what do you think about the future of relationships?
Speaker: Do you think we are moving toward a post love society. yeah ah society where...
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: i think so. I think people, there's gonna be, I feel like in the future, there might be more marriages of convenience or relationships of convenience.
Speaker: you know these things people keep asking other people, at you what do you bring to the table? It sounds like that will be a more common thing that people would be asking in relationships.
Speaker: Right. Yeah, so. Is that bad to ask a relationship?
Speaker: Yeah, I think it is. I think it is to us it is bad to ask in that direct way. Because I feel like by the time you start dating somebody, or even as you date somebody, you should do do your due diligence to find out what you actually think will bring to the table.
Speaker: i think According to me, honestly, I think it's something that you shouldn't ask. You should be able to figure it out because you're trying to learn ah about this person, find out more and find what intrigues you about them and things like those. So with time, should inform you what they definitely bring to the table.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. True. True. You can tell, you can tell what somebody brings to the table without, without asking them. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah Because actually that has been a contentious issue. Women don't like being asked that question, honestly. The people I have interacted with, they don't like it he Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, honestly, it does appear also a little bit rude. I mean, I can understand where someone might to be coming from.
Speaker: Yes. But to some extent, it sounds Mm-hmm. Yeah, which is what I'm saying. If you're dating somebody and you even when we want to settle down with them, that is a time when you do your due diligence and figure out what is this person bringing to the table.
Speaker: I probably like her because maybe she can do ABC or I like him because he can do XYZ, whatever. So that exactly is what this this person brings the table. tab You don't need to ah to ask them.
Speaker: You can see it. So why are you not asking them? Yeah, yeah. And goes both ways for men and women. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. And I think, honestly, like, when when you see things like pre-napture agreements and... wow Yeah.
Speaker: And many others. Yeah. it It appears that...
Speaker: yeah people we we are seeing new models of relationships emerging that challenge the traditional love-based relationships yeah that's true yeah yeah interesting maybe maybe before
Speaker: Yeah. Maybe before we we wrap up, um right
Speaker: will we love always be the ideal oh do you think we will redefine relationships in the future?
Speaker: no Oh, whether we like it or not, they're going to be redefined. That's for sure. Things have changed and they're changing pretty fast. So they're going to be redefined for sure. Yeah. I don't think we can. It's like the way we embraced AI. It was just the other day there was no AI.
Speaker: And then right now we're using stuff like ChatGPT to do all our writing or generate ideas for different things. So I think it's almost inevitable. Yeah.
Speaker: It's going to be redefined. True, true, Yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Because also the way we love right now is also not the same way our parents loved. Sorry. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, it's true, though.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, though, because relationships are evolving and they are evolving so fast.
Speaker: It's a good thing. yeah I think, yeah. um But as you look at it um it, it also does seem to suggest that love may not always be at the center of them.
Speaker: This is not to say love is not important. it is important. ah hu Yeah. Please do love your partners.
Speaker: Yes, please. Yes. We are not advocating for people to stop loving their partners. Yes. Disclaimer. I agree with you.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Yeah, I think, yeah. I would think that in my opinion, especially from a very Christian standpoint, I would think that relationships should be based on love.
Speaker: yeah yeah Others might disagree with me, but that's totally fine. ah I agree, honestly. Yeah.
Speaker: So... um After everything we've talked, we have talked about do so many things.
Speaker: ah After everything, is love truly necessary? Or is it just, you know, one of many ways to build strong relationship?
Speaker: Is it necessary?
Speaker: I think my answer would be both it's necessary and also it's still one way to build a strong foundation for a relationship. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. And but what do you think? he ah What do you think? so Is it necessary or is it just one of those?
Speaker: I mean mean, in my opinion, i would think that and
Speaker: it's it's very important to have love if you want to have ah uniquely...
Speaker: fulfilling and happy relationship. This is not to suggest that other relationship might not necessarily give you that feeling. I think they can. ah But I think there's just something so special about being in love with another person that really makes you um in a way, i don't know,
Speaker: it makes you to to to be so different. You know, you you you you get to care about another person way more than you do for yourself.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Like you get to see each other as just one. Yeah. So...
Speaker: yeah yeah
Speaker: so a
Speaker: Yeah. ah her Uh-huh. So, uh, uh, why are you laughing?
Speaker: No, I'm happy to hear that. Uh-huh. Finish your sentence. Uh-huh.
Speaker: Other relationships are valid. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They are valid. I think just as we have discussed, relationships are built on different foundations and for different reasons.
Speaker: Right. um But I think that even though sometimes when people say there is no love in it, I think there is.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's definitely something that is love-like. The quantity might not be ideal.
Speaker: Subjective.
Speaker: Yes. ah have ah But there might be something there. Yeah. So, yeah. So, a final thing. Yeah. What is one thing you want our viewers and listeners to take away from this conversation?
Speaker: who I think it's um yeah yeah love and relationships don't have a manual. So you go there and do you and work work with what works for you and your partner honestly.
Speaker: Yeah. And keep learning because our relationship is more about like learning what works for you, works for your partner, what doesn't work, what needs tweaking and stuff like that, compromising and all that. So yeah, create and build your own manual that you can work with and stick to that. Yeah.
Speaker: that Absolutely. ah Yeah.
Speaker: No, me too. Yeah. Follow your heart. and Whoever your heart leads you to, hope that you find happiness and fulfillment there.
Speaker: And but great hopefully, yeah, both of you, whoever i is involved, you both find that happiness and and fulfillment. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Thank you so much, Kimaru baby. It was nice having this conversation with you. It's been a ah I know. Thank you. Yeah.
Speaker: Thank you so much. Yeah. If this episode sparked something in you, don't forget to subscribe. Leave a review and share it with someone who needs a little inspiration.
Speaker: Follow us on our social media platforms at the Spark It podcast. See you next time on the Spark It podcast with Patrick CJ and Kimaru Baby.
