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Do Relationships Need Love to Survive or Just Something Else?
20 Plays4 months ago
Is love truly the foundation of relationships, or have we overhyped its importance? In this episode, we dive into relationships that function out of duty, shared goals, or cultural expectations. From arranged marriages to transactional relationships, we explore whether love is essential or just one of many possible foundations. Can mutual respect, companionship, or mutual benefit replace romantic affection? What happens when love is one-sided? Tune in, and you might walk away with a new perspective on what truly sustains relationships.
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Transcript
Introduction: Questioning Love in Relationships
00:00:00
Speaker
ah Welcome to the Spark It podcast with Patrick CJ and Kimaru Baby. Today we are diving into ah very big question.
00:00:11
Speaker
Is there ah relationship without love? If there is, ah such relationships broken or are they just different?
00:00:24
Speaker
We assume love is the foundation of meaningful relationships, but what if that is just a social construct? Today we'll dive into the historical and cultural views on love and relationships, modern examples of relationships that literally function without love.
00:00:46
Speaker
And also whether love is necessary or if simply we have overhyped it.
00:00:56
Speaker
So let's get right
Defining Love: Feelings and Actions
00:00:59
Speaker
in. um Kimaru Eibi, how are you doing today? I'm good. I'm good. I'm excited, honestly, to be shooting this episode with you.
00:01:09
Speaker
And I can't wait to see what we come up with, honestly. But yeah, I'm excited. I'm fine. Amazing. Amazing. So let's start with a big one. What do we mean when we talk about love?
00:01:25
Speaker
who Nice. That's like a really interesting question. Yeah. Do you want me to give like my personal view of what I think love is? Go for it. ah Oh, wow.
00:01:39
Speaker
Damn, I think I wasn't even prepared for that. But, wow, I think love is such a wide topic, honest honestly. But what I would think love is in a few words, it's those deep feelings you have for somebody.
00:01:55
Speaker
And it's also how it's not just about the feeling. It's also how you show yourself. this love to this person so it goes down to how you treat them what do you say to them like so what how you communicate with them it's more of how you treat them how you communicate with them and um what what would be the third one i think those two those two are like mostly on top of the list for me treating how you treat a person and how you communicate with that person Right.
00:02:25
Speaker
Yeah. So from just the fact that it'd be like, oh, I love this person or something of the sort. Right. Right.
00:02:34
Speaker
Interesting. So love is just a feeling, uh, an action.
Can Duty Replace Love?
00:02:42
Speaker
It's, it's both combined feeling and an action. it can be a verb, And what what do they call them? noun?
00:02:54
Speaker
Yes. Both. Yes.
00:02:59
Speaker
It's actually more of a verb, I think, because it it's more of the action, honestly. Yeah. Right. who So do you think love is always essential in relationships?
00:03:15
Speaker
Or can duty, respect, or shared goals replace it? a Oh, wow. Oh, my God.
00:03:26
Speaker
You're asking, like, really interesting questions. Honestly, is it necessary or it's because of duty and obligation? Damn. Yeah.
00:03:37
Speaker
Or even shared the goals. And goals. Yeah. I think it depends. Because for me, I would say in my personal experience or the things I have seen happen around me, I feel like there's people who do it because of shared goals.
00:03:53
Speaker
There's people who've done it because of they feel it's an obligation. Right. And then there's people who just it just happens. Right.
00:04:04
Speaker
Yeah, so ahka it could be all those actually, depending. I think it's very circumstantial. It depends with who is participating in this thing called love and with whom.
00:04:16
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. so good So what you're saying is essentially that duty, um respect, and shared goals replace love.
00:04:33
Speaker
Or can it replace love? No. I don't think they do. It's like they sort of coexist together. But for some people, I think they do.
00:04:45
Speaker
Because I have seen ah that there's unions I've seen of people, maybe these that did ah they started a relationship when they were sort of maybe in love. And then at some point they fall out of love, but maybe they had started like a family and they have kids.
Cultural Perspectives on Love
00:05:00
Speaker
So because they have already fallen out of love, so duty and these other things kind of replace the love because maybe you are feeling obligated like, oh, I have kids, I have take care of these kids. So some people even stay in marriages and they're not happy or they're not feeling loved or anything of that sort, but they're there for that shared goal of we are raising a family or we have these kids we need to take care of and you don't want to separate and have them like do the co-parenting thing.
00:05:27
Speaker
So they're just there. Right. Right. So guess at some point it can replace depending on context also. Interesting. Yeah.
00:05:39
Speaker
Speaking of context, actually, it's good you have raised me that. Okay. Some cultures
00:05:50
Speaker
view love as practical relationships rather than emotional ones. Do you think that approach is better?
00:06:06
Speaker
Yeah, i think literally, because just like you've said, you know duty, respect, shared goals and stuff like that.
00:06:19
Speaker
I think maybe we jinxed it at some point. I think we jinxed it by watching a lot of soap operas. Because honestly, hear me out. I feel like at some point, eyes especially in traditional African communities, a lot of times you never had to get married because you love a person.
00:06:41
Speaker
It would be maybe like a family has identified maybe a girl in another whatever, and they're like, yeah, we think this would be suitable for our you know our son or or vice versa.
00:06:55
Speaker
Yeah, and then it didn't have to be like, oh, there's the love, the whatever. It's like you you just come together and you go love each other if you have to love each other.
00:07:06
Speaker
Wherever, you go start a family and if there's love, now that's up to you. But I feel like at that point, it did work for that particular point. But right now, things did change a lot.
00:07:18
Speaker
We embraced like this, we like, I don't know, I feel like love or that kind of whatever became so modernized or marriage for the sake of this conversation, it became a bit modernized. And as we also borrowed a lot of cultures from everywhere.
00:07:33
Speaker
So at this point, it's like the concept of love was brought into the conversation. And now it's like, Oh, you know, I don't think I feel, i feel him anymore. Or, you know, for him to, you know, to marry me, I have to feel sort of these very intense feelings and, you know, all these kind of things.
00:07:51
Speaker
So I feel like things have changed because we have borrowed a lot, especially from for africa the African context. We borrowed a lot from outside and we have embraced that and made that to be what we now
Religious Influences on Love
00:08:05
Speaker
know of. Because even, for example, right now,
00:08:07
Speaker
There's even places like churches that if you are not married at a church, it's not recognized. Yet even before we embraced, for example, this whole idea of marriage in a church, Africans used to have their way of marrying off their daughters and their sons.
00:08:25
Speaker
Yes. So yeah, I feel like with love and all these things, we embrace other cultures. We borrowed a lot. And now it's more of, yeah, it's more of not necessarily like, oh, I have identified a guy somewhere I like. And now my family is like, yeah, that's it.
00:08:41
Speaker
It's more of at a personal level. What do I want as Kimaru? How do I feel about this person and stuff like that? So yeah, it's very different, honestly. Right. That is very interesting. um So when you speak about this approach being different, although you haven't been able to mention specifically which one you would think is better.
00:09:10
Speaker
Oh, which one I think is better? No. I feel like... Yeah. I'm just wondering if it is better to approach relationships as more like, you know, practical partnerships rather than just emotional ones.
00:09:30
Speaker
And yeah. Yeah. o Okay. Honestly, I feel like what with that if those are the two choices you're giving me, i emotional or practical, I feel like practical wood for me would make a lot more sense.
00:09:46
Speaker
Right. because Because i feel like love
Practical vs. Emotional Relationships
00:09:50
Speaker
is just more of a feeling, but there's a lot of things that go into a relationship. Okay. right ah There's the communication. There's, for example, whatever you say, the shared goals, like what do you want for yourself in the next two years, in the next three years and stuff like that. Do even want to have kids and stuff like that? And I feel like with things like even having kids, it's not just about a feeling.
00:10:14
Speaker
It's about how are we even, for example, going to raise these kids. What type of life do you want to give them? So again, at the end of the day, I don't feel like love would be enough in this context. So I feel like if you if those are the two choices I'm getting between the feeling and the practicality part of it, then I would go for how practical it is for the two people involved in this context.
00:10:36
Speaker
Right. Interesting. Yeah. But what do you think, though?
00:10:43
Speaker
speaking ah Yes, your own question, john like but between those two, feeling and practicality.
00:10:52
Speaker
So, ah first of all, ah for me, how I view love is mostly from a Christian perspective. who um I view mostly from that lens.
00:11:09
Speaker
So from a Christian lens, love is at the heart of everything. Yeah, true.
00:11:20
Speaker
Whether it being what we do, our relationships with others and so forth and all these things, love is at the heart of that. And um because when you look at the Bible, basically, the message is summarized into two things.
00:11:38
Speaker
Love God, love your neighbor as yourself. And when you narrow that down to one thing, the lesson is love. So love is like at the center of yeah ah everything. And I think for me, I would view it from that perspective now.
00:11:57
Speaker
and On whether it's more like a practical partnership or an emotional one is where it can be a hard bargain to pin down.
00:12:08
Speaker
Because for me, for example, i look at love more like a principle. rather than just an affection um that eventually will go away or maybe a feeling that eventually, because it it changes, right?
00:12:27
Speaker
Like how you're feeling now might not be how you'll be feeling the next to two minutes or one. um That's true. Something like that. So I think I would, i viewed more like as a principle.
00:12:41
Speaker
um Yeah.
00:12:46
Speaker
and And you're a Christian. So what's your take
Relationships of Convenience
00:12:50
Speaker
on this?
00:12:53
Speaker
right No, I feel like, of course, and sorry, you're saying? No, I was like, when you put on your Christian. The Christian heart. Yes.
00:13:07
Speaker
No, I feel like it definitely does supersede a lot of things. Okay. But also ah because we live in this world,
00:13:16
Speaker
And also we have to be very practical about stuff. I feel definitely it is at the top. As a Christian, it is at the top. But also if you are narrowing it down to, for example, now you are thinking about like a lifetime commitment with this person, I feel like um you also have to think about it in the in a very practical sense.
00:13:38
Speaker
Right. So you have to make sure your are love is... ah enough it's out pouring it's like and it's shaken now what do they call it in the bible and running over and whatever because i feel like Yes, overflowing. Because if it if it is overflowing, then it becomes easy for it to also be practical. Because you would be, you see the way they say love yourself love love your neighbor as you love yourself.
00:14:05
Speaker
So at this point, if fifth if you love yourself and it's overflowing, then it's easy. For example, if you're sharing life life with somebody, for example, you also want to set a family or whatever, it's easy to pour onto them.
00:14:18
Speaker
in the different ways, but it's whether it's the things you do together, how you want to raise a family and stuff like that. Yeah, that's what I would say from probably from a Christian point of view.
00:14:30
Speaker
Interesting. So it has to be really overflowing.
00:14:38
Speaker
you have to make sure you keep replenishing. Actually, it's it's very interesting because when when you look at it from that lens, like from the Christian lens, who love is necessary for any relationship.
00:14:54
Speaker
Of course, yeah. and Because it is the foundation for any. who But when when you move away, because not everyone is a Christian, right?
00:15:08
Speaker
So yeah ah so and yeah when you take off that Christian heart, then you realize that, oh, love is complex.
00:15:19
Speaker
Maybe it's not always necessary for a strong relationship. Yes. And I have seen that somewhere.
00:15:31
Speaker
Yeah, I've seen people get into relationships for convenience.
00:15:38
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Like for what they could get from the relationship. Okay, like for example, I've seen people who have gotten into a relationship for convenience for the things they can get from this other person.
00:15:52
Speaker
Like for example, somebody yeah has gotten to an age, like like let's take an example of guy ex. Guy ex has gotten to an age where they feel like, for example, now they're ready to settle down. Okay?
00:16:04
Speaker
And now at this point, it's like, they are really, really ready. And they just choose, actually it's called the, I've heard people talk about it online too, but I've also seen it happen. yeah The taxi cab theory, something like that.
00:16:19
Speaker
like it's Like when you're waiting for a taxi and then the next one that you, you know, just comes and you know, you hop on. So for the guy X, they're ready to marry and they're ready to settle down and have children or whatever.
00:16:32
Speaker
So they don't even need... They don't take too much time coating or, you know, doing too many things. The next girl they find, even know whether they love them or not, they just...
00:16:44
Speaker
If that person is available, they go with it. And then also I've seen also other people who also like get into relationship for convenience. For example, maybe somebody is feeling lonely and then there's this person who can yeah give them a shoulder to lean on.
00:17:01
Speaker
Or there's this person they have seen potentially who is so good at something that can fulfill ah gap in their life. It doesn't matter what gap. Yeah. So they're like, yeah, they get into a relationship with you. You you think like this person really cares and loves loves you, but the energy is not the same.
00:17:22
Speaker
You definitely maybe totally love them, but for them, they're there because of the benefits they can get from you. That's true. Interesting. Interesting.
00:17:32
Speaker
Yes. so Happens every day, actually.
00:17:39
Speaker
For real?
00:17:41
Speaker
i mean, I really don't know, but I guess there are cases like that that do happen. i think I wouldn't deny it. um Yeah, but it's just kind of interesting.
00:17:56
Speaker
Yeah. and Can we assume that those
Modern Influences on Love
00:18:00
Speaker
relationships, do not have any bit of love in them at all. Or maybe they do.
00:18:08
Speaker
Because there's, again, for example, the taxi cab theory that you talk about, which is that,
00:18:20
Speaker
A basically picks up the first girl they meet. That's available. when Yes.
00:18:30
Speaker
When they decide to marry. yeah Yes. But also there there is this concept of love at first sight.
00:18:48
Speaker
but oh no no those two people those two things can actually exist at the same time for some people but for others they can exist separately like there's one person who probably go with the taxi cab theory and then there's a one another one who might also be and they love at first sight there's those two right so it works right But then also i kind of feel like there's something you are trying to say about being in a relationship and there is no love.
00:19:20
Speaker
You can be in a relationship and the there's the love there's the love that is there is one-sided. Yeah. Yeah. Like you're the one who loves your partner, but your partner is, you know, they don't necessarily love you.
00:19:35
Speaker
So what keeps you guys together and surviving and thriving is that love that one person shares. So, and a lot of times what happens is there's a likelihood of the person who loves the other one and the other one doesn't love them.
00:19:49
Speaker
This one who loves this other one will be the one who will always be overcompensating for the love that is not given from the other side. So you could also be in a relationship where the love is not mutual.
00:20:01
Speaker
And then the person who gives this love, they have to they work too hard. For that relationship to so to sustain itself, they work too hard because they have to keep pouring and compensate for the love that is not given from the other side. Yeah.
00:20:18
Speaker
Interesting. Oh, yeah, it happens. There are a lot of relationships like that, though.
00:20:28
Speaker
Right? See, you agree with me. right Right? yes Yes. Yes. For the first time in a while, we are agreeing. It is true. It is true. The thing is,
00:20:48
Speaker
I'm not saying that all relationships are like that. um he so so Okay. Sometimes it can appear as if the other person does not love you. Because that that is the thing with those kind of relationships that you described.
00:21:06
Speaker
Sometimes it can give you the illusion that the other person does not love you. But maybe the person is going through some stuff in their life at that time.
00:21:20
Speaker
Not necessarily that they don't love you. It's that they're going through some stuff that I'm maybe holding them back from being able to, you know, show you the love like you would expect them to.
00:21:37
Speaker
Okay, there could be that. But sometimes, you know, if somebody has been consistent enough for a long period of time. Yeah, I don't know.
00:21:48
Speaker
at this point, you can't excuse it. i feel like there's that whatever you said could be true. But a lot of times with the ones I've said, like there's the one that is one-sided love, most of the times it starts as if these people can manipulate you to some extent to feel like they actually love you.
00:22:06
Speaker
So they create sort of, well, how it starts, they create an illusion. of like they love you so they put you in that comfort zone of you feeling you're loved and then of course you reciprocate the love but in essence maybe they were doing that as i
Is Love Necessary for Happiness?
00:22:20
Speaker
said because maybe there was something they really wanted from you so in the beginning before you realize it you would have been like maybe love bombed ah so you would be thinking that you actually loved Okay.
00:22:32
Speaker
But eventually by the time you come to realize it's a one-sided love, you've given, given, given so much. And also at some point now, because the pretense, they see, of course they were pretending at first.
00:22:43
Speaker
So at some point, their pretense they stopped the pretense and now they become they they embrace their true selves. So and you know realize that eventually you realize like, oh, wow, what's happening?
00:22:54
Speaker
So apparently they definitely started you off as if they loved you. And then at some point they they dropped the ball. And now you get your senses and now you realize it's a really one-sided love. Yeah. So that does exist.
00:23:07
Speaker
Like people do that a lot of times. Yeah. Yeah. Like how do you end up in a one-sided love?
00:23:18
Speaker
Leave.
00:23:24
Speaker
What are you waiting for? Honestly, I feel like after you realize, for example, that you're going through such a situation ah and this person doesn't really love you and doesn't care for you and maybe there something just yeah from you, you should be able to just yeah pick yourself up and leave because I don't feel if that's how that love is and it's that one-sided, don't feel like it will ever change.
00:23:50
Speaker
It doesn't change. Actually, it never changes. Right. Yeah. It never changes. Right.
00:23:59
Speaker
So they'll always be giving you breadcrumbs. And if that's not the um the thing you want to subscribe to, then you better leave.
00:24:09
Speaker
Don't you think that
Manipulation and Evolution of Relationships
00:24:10
Speaker
people could also try like working things out though, before just deciding to leave?
00:24:20
Speaker
You can. You know, I think there's a difference between when you have a normal. Yeah. Especially. Yeah, continue.
00:24:34
Speaker
ah continue I'm saying i think there's a difference between having a normal healthy relationship and going maybe through an obstacle or something and then maybe or maybe going through storms in a relationship.
00:24:48
Speaker
and you And at some point you guys talking ah talking about it and trying to work things out. and that now now that did that And then it's also different for they they the kind of whatever I've given.
00:25:02
Speaker
The kind of example i was giving was very specific. Somebody like bombed you because they wanted something specific from you, which is why you guys got into a relationship. And then at some point, because they don't need to sugarcoat anything anymore, they now show their true colors because they were not there for their love.
00:25:20
Speaker
Maybe they were there for that specific thing they wanted from you. yeah For this particular relationship, once you realize that that's what is happening for me from a personal perspective, I wouldn't recommend trying to work things out because from the very beginning, there was no love.
00:25:36
Speaker
It was because of something things ah specific that this person wanted from you. So you can't really change this person. But if it's just a normal relationship where love is reciprocated and you're going through a rough patch, then I mean, by all means, sit down, talk about it and find ways you could, you know, find yourself to each other again.
00:25:54
Speaker
But if it's the other one, it's not worth it. It's going to drain you.
00:26:02
Speaker
I sound like a relationship coach.
00:26:09
Speaker
No, but
00:26:17
Speaker
So historically, he Marriages weren't about love. I mean, not always. They were about survival, alliances,
00:26:33
Speaker
oh family duty. Yeah. yeah Do you think those relationships were more stable?
00:26:47
Speaker
Honestly, I don't even know if I can speak about those ones because I don't.
00:26:54
Speaker
because I know. So let me give you this example. Okay.
00:27:00
Speaker
For example,
00:27:04
Speaker
my my my grandma, her marriage to
Reflecting on the Necessity of Love
00:27:10
Speaker
my granddad was an arranged to marriage. ah and And they really lived to very long together until when grandpa passed on.
00:27:23
Speaker
um okay And there are very many other cases like that basically in my community that I could point to.
00:27:35
Speaker
But also cases basically where marriages were organized, for example, as a way to maybe bring peace between warring communities, like communities that are fighting each other.
00:27:52
Speaker
And so marriage is used as a way. And I think like that was used a lot actually in many parts of Africa, like in the kingdoms. True.
00:28:07
Speaker
Whether being the Zulu kingdom and others, yeah.
00:28:13
Speaker
yeah so you you know you necessarily might not really be in love with that person or something but you know
00:28:23
Speaker
yeah there was something you said earlier which is like you guys maybe go and find it out because you just take it to somebody ah you figure it out whether you need to love each other right yeah like they they have been those kind of relationships and for some reason some of them have really been very stable
00:29:00
Speaker
some of them yeah do you think but what do you think about them
00:29:08
Speaker
Okay, honestly, I feel like, for example, I think there was a time were talking about who should propose and who should not propose and all that. I feel also with these types of marriages, when that when they used to happen, people didn't know any different.
00:29:24
Speaker
Like that was a social construct at that point. Like we're just going identify somebody for you and we're going to arrange this marriage for you. And we think this is who you should marry because either they'll give you status in the community, yeah they'll give you children, whatever, whatever.
00:29:39
Speaker
That was what was working then. And they didn't know any different. There was not this whole thing of, oh, I need to love somebody. and need to see you to find out what they love, what they want. Should I be hiking with them or not? There was no that.
00:29:53
Speaker
So I think the reason why it worked then or or maybe, yeah, it worked then and might not work now was because they didn't know any different. That was it. If your parents said, like, you're going to marry from this household and we think that girl can give us this or we think that man would give us some wealth or some status in the community or whatever.
00:30:16
Speaker
I think it just worked because, I mean, that's all you know. That's all you're exposed to. So it had to work. And I feel like going back because I've i've i've read stories and I've also heard even also from my like grandparents or people they knew, I feel like those also those marriages used to be they used to be stable in the context of it's like their roles are so defined.
00:30:39
Speaker
They were so defined at the time. Yeah, yeah. Like the man was supposed to provide for the family. That was his role. The woman was supposed to sometimes just stay at home and give birth to children.
00:30:51
Speaker
And that was her role and take care of the household. So it was almost like really, really straightforward. And I feel like it worked for them at that point because they were so, is everything was so defined.
00:31:04
Speaker
This is how we do it. This is also your role as a wife. This is your role as a husband or, you know, those types of relationships. So I think it was stable for sure because of how the social construct was at that particular point.
00:31:20
Speaker
Right. So from...
00:31:26
Speaker
Were these kind of marriages there ah within the Kikuyu community historically? Yes, they were there. That's what they were doing.
00:31:41
Speaker
were arranged marriages, by the How were they?
00:31:49
Speaker
ah you it think it's almost the same for Omoto communities. yeah And I think I'll have to do a bit of reading on that. But yeah, there was arranged marriages even in the Kikuyu community, honestly.
00:32:03
Speaker
Yeah, it's the same. It cuts across.
00:32:07
Speaker
Were they stable?
00:32:12
Speaker
Yes. I don't know if they were that, I don't know. ah Honestly, for stability and all that, I can't talk about it honestly because I didn't experience it firsthand.
00:32:24
Speaker
But I think for the people who did it because of and because of the stories that have been passed down, it seemed to have worked out. I feel like right now people keep divorcing. But then the stories we hear or that have been passed down, you would hear somebody was married like 50 years and whatever separated them was death from their partner.
00:32:45
Speaker
So it kind of seems to have worked for them honestly. So yeah, that's what I would say. But right now, so people are getting married and then two years down the line, they're like, mm-mm, bye-bye. ah Yeah.
00:33:01
Speaker
and And by the way, much for you, you know. Yes, actually, just to speaking of that, ah you would think that right now, with the level of freedom, rights, access to information that we have, we wouldn't be having um arranged marriages.
00:33:28
Speaker
But apparently, actually, today, arranged marriages still exist. They so day do. do. There was a time actually.
00:33:41
Speaker
ah There was a time I was watching a TikTok. Yeah.
00:33:49
Speaker
Yeah, you were telling us about your TikTok. Yeah, there was a time I was watching a TikTok and there was this guy who was like, hey, I miss the days that people could just get into a situation like their parents would arrange a marriage for them.
00:34:05
Speaker
Look at me now. I'm in my 30s. I think it was 38 or something. It was like, I need somebody to arrange for me a marriage. Yes.
00:34:16
Speaker
And people are in the comment section. They're like, yeah, I think me too, me too, me too.
00:34:26
Speaker
But what was your question that interrupted you?
00:34:31
Speaker
hu so
00:34:34
Speaker
So people were like, you know, they want to they want to be arranged some marriage. Yes, it's like, comment section was so hilarious.
00:34:44
Speaker
Everyone's like, me too. I miss those days. It's not like they even experienced them. Maybe for them, if some of them, it's just stories they've heard. But clearly, I guess they're stuck at the point where you can no longer meet potential people, you know, that easily.
00:35:00
Speaker
so maybe they feel like at this point, honestly, somebody should just organize something for me.
00:35:08
Speaker
It was so funny, actually. Maybe. Maybe some of them are just joking. Maybe some of them have been frustrated relationships they've had.
00:35:21
Speaker
o True, especially that part of frustrations. I think so too.
00:35:27
Speaker
Yeah. So speaking of um arranged marriages existing today, ah do you think love can grow in a relationship or does it need to be there from the start?
00:35:49
Speaker
That's a very interesting question. Can I tell you what some I've heard some ladies say? There's people who usually say There's people who usually say, you know what, just go. yeah so Like maybe somebody has been has been introduced to somebody. I've heard ladies tell other ladies, you know what, women, we can learn to love.
00:36:11
Speaker
We can grow to love somebody. So you know what, just go ahead, get married to this person, you will grow into the love.
00:36:21
Speaker
Oh, you will grow to love them. You see what I mean? and Like literally, I've had women giving women that kind of advice. So ah my personal, okay, or maybe personal perspective per se, but I think love is important in any relationship.
00:36:40
Speaker
But I also feel like, yeah, you can grow into it.
00:36:47
Speaker
interesting It's important at the start, but there's people who can grow into it or you can grow into it. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes.
00:37:00
Speaker
You can grow into it. I guess it's very circumstantial.
00:37:09
Speaker
so So ah you you you you are saying that he those women who that say, you know what, just go into but relationship, you will grow to love that person with the time.
00:37:28
Speaker
and You actually think that is true? Yes, it's true.
00:37:36
Speaker
Most of the times for those circumstances when women advise women to do that, it really is like, for example, um maybe you you you've not been able to find love by yourself.
00:37:48
Speaker
Okay. So maybe somebody is, people are recommending for you certain people. they're now helping you like sort of give you like oh float some ideas or bring people closer to you or introduce. Okay.
00:38:02
Speaker
The word is introduce. They're trying to introduce you to people yeah and maybe they can clearly see this guy yeah has potential. You get that's the one especially who give you that type of advice.
00:38:13
Speaker
Yes. When they can see like the guy can potentially like make a good husband. Maybe it's only that you, you have not really gotten into the love part. Right. That's when they give that kind of advice most of the times.
00:38:26
Speaker
They're like, you know, this person is They just grow to love them.
00:38:33
Speaker
But now I'm not disputing the argument you make that this is true.
00:38:45
Speaker
But I think that in other cases, it might not be, at least not always. Mm-hmm. not Yeah, I think da there is a potential that it can be a disaster.
00:39:00
Speaker
Yes, waiting to happen. It can be a disaster. Yeah. If you walk into yeah this relationship where you know you're like you're hoping that you'll grow to love this person and that person does not love you.
00:39:18
Speaker
ah something like that. And they eventually...
00:39:24
Speaker
Yeah, and I don't know. It seems to me like, I don't know, like a recipe for disaster.
00:39:34
Speaker
You know what I have learned my years of this whatever, trying this love thing? I feel like there's no o there' no perfect way to love or to find love or there's no manual for love and people do it like differently.
00:39:55
Speaker
So I feel like at this point, whatever works for people. Yeah. You just go for it, but definitely with that one, it it could work out. And also it can be definitely a total disaster as you've said.
00:40:06
Speaker
So, but if you really want to give it a shot, you better be sure.
00:40:14
Speaker
like don't just get married, honestly, immediately. And then it doesn't work out. You will regret it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think it goes both ways, you know, for both men and women and any other genders.
00:40:33
Speaker
Yeah. um So that's true. Speaking of that, of people getting into a relationship, Mostly oh for economic reasons, you know?
00:40:47
Speaker
oh good guy or He he has a salary, but you know, he's doing well economically. oh ah Getting into relationship for political reasons.
00:41:02
Speaker
Maybe as a way to access positions of power. Oh, yes. exactly. Obsessed with people who have families. Yes.
00:41:14
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Could be like a man going after ah woman who is a, you know, a politician or maybe he's in a position of authority.
00:41:29
Speaker
And then use that as a way to also in like, you know, activate his political career ah the other way around too. Yeah. And I'm just wondering, these kind of relationships, can they be just as fulfilling
00:41:51
Speaker
as let's say relationships based entirely on love?
00:42:00
Speaker
Yes. Yes and no. I think they can be fulfilling depending on whether the needs are being met. Like, for example, by the time you are identifying a person and you want to just marry them because maybe it will stabilize you enough and people would think like it makes you a good leader because you have a family and some sense of leadership in you because you can lead your own family.
00:42:24
Speaker
But also on the part of your partner, what is what was the bargain for them? Like maybe that was what you wanted, but there must have been, for them to have agreed to probably they settle down with you, there must have been something they also maybe saw in you or they wanted from you.
00:42:41
Speaker
Are those two things being met? ah you Has your need been met and has their need also been met? if you if those If each of you, ah each of the needs are being met then I feel like it can be fulfilling yeah just as just a normal relationship but if there is a discrepancy somewhere it's not it's not gonna work out I feel like when it comes to love it's one of those things that sort of most of times has to be very reciprocated if it's not then there's always gonna be issues right
00:43:19
Speaker
ride Right, right. I agree. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. yeah But I also agree. i think from this conversation, can clearly see that love hasn't always been the standard for relationships.
00:43:39
Speaker
like Relationships have existed for practical reasons throughout history. could be economic reasons,
00:43:50
Speaker
political reasons, familial reasons. yes Yes, exactly. That's very true.
00:44:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Maybe... Bringing back to today, relationships today, um do you see any examples of modern in relationships that function without love?
00:44:23
Speaker
e That are maybe like, huh, yes. ah In my personal, now from my own personal, whatever experience that the things I have seen behind the scenes,
00:44:35
Speaker
I have seen those type of types so
00:44:40
Speaker
i've seen those types of relationships, honestly. The love is very, very much there. No love at all. What are the examples of those relationships? No, you know, maybe i maybe it's people I know personally and people might not know them.
00:44:58
Speaker
Yeah, but I know people who are doing who are doing this love out of, okay, or maybe they're living with each other out of obligation. And especially when you, I feel like a lot of times it happens when you will have kids.
00:45:11
Speaker
If, for example, you are married or you're in a relationship and there's no children attached to it, it's very easy when the love is dead for people to walk away. But as soon as the kids come into the picture, then it becomes a different conversation and people stay for for the children, even when the love is not there anymore.
00:45:30
Speaker
Yeah. And others would stay for the children and for the wealth because they don't want their property to be split or something of this much. So, yeah.
00:45:40
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. okay
00:45:46
Speaker
That is so true. Yeah, like co-parenting. Which ones do you know, by the way? yeah Ah, yeah. See, now people are avoiding the you're living under the same roof.
00:46:07
Speaker
How does it work? You're not parenting and you're living under the same roof. You're not separating. Yes. It's actually very interesting. mean So there is this case i actually read about um some guys.
00:46:30
Speaker
So this couple... had a girl and you know, stuff happened, you know, sometimes and they, they divorced.
00:46:44
Speaker
Oh no. For some reason. And, but the interesting part is, no, I think that, yeah. So they were living though um under the same roof.
00:47:02
Speaker
And so because for the guy, the guy knows, okay, you know, she's done with me. I am done with her too. And so he starts bringing women into the into the house.
00:47:16
Speaker
And then this woman goes banana.
00:47:23
Speaker
ah Yeah, I would have assumed that would definitely happen.
00:47:29
Speaker
When you think about that...
00:47:32
Speaker
Honestly, that's very crazy. I feel like if you guys decide to divorce, maybe it's time to give each other space so that you can you can end up living your own lives. Because if you, at some point, you guys loved each other, regardless of the fact that you've already separated or divorced, I feel like there's always going to be that feeling of, maybe you might even feel jealous, like in the context of that lady, when you see that, oh, literally your partner has actually moved on.
00:48:00
Speaker
And now they can even bring other women over. So there would be that aspect. So if it was up to me, I'll probably say maybe just don't live together, especially if you've already been divorced.
00:48:11
Speaker
There's no need. especially because you want to move on, you want to start your own life and, you know, do your own things, you know? So if if somebody wants to bring over women or men, whichever, i don't want to feel like somebody's rubbing it on my face that they have moved on. yeah, yeah maybe I would probably choose the piece of just being in my own personal space.
00:48:37
Speaker
Oh Right. Mm-hmm. Interesting. interesting because it doesn and it doesnt have you
00:48:48
Speaker
yeah i Honestly, I would agree with you, too. I would agree with you. and actually i think like if things have fallen apart in your relationship,
00:49:03
Speaker
it' it's ah especially if it's going to the level of a divorce, It's probably just much better for each one of you to stay in your own spaces and then, you know, just do the visits and what and all those other kind of stuff such that you can allow each other the freedom and space to maybe heal and move on.
00:49:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:40
Speaker
yeah ah have you heard of platonic life partners no how does that work school me
00:49:57
Speaker
ah no that's that's new honestly they are introducing too many things in the space I am not ready I have not caught up ah tell me tell me about it
00:50:11
Speaker
So, uh, platonic, um, life partners are basically, uh, friends who live together and support each other without romance.
00:50:29
Speaker
Ooh, sounds fantastic. you Can you share the bills? and
00:50:37
Speaker
Wait, wait, wait. Does it mean because we are platonic life partners, I cannot now even go ahead and get married at some point? I've committed to you.
00:50:49
Speaker
That's a good question. I don't know. I would love to know. I think you can go ahead. ah
00:50:58
Speaker
Yeah, but... yeah like i when i dig When you think...
00:51:04
Speaker
yeah you wanted to know ah if it's like a lifetime commitment, you see, like with marriage, it's like, this is it, this is me and you. So for platonic, now that there is no romance and whatever, is it like a lifetime commitment?
00:51:17
Speaker
Or at some point, I can be like, okay, I'm done with this. I can move on with my life. I want a romantic partner.
00:51:26
Speaker
I mean, I would think that the assumption is that it is long term. as As from the concept, platonic life partners not today you can't to do without the romance package woman that's a it's very essential it's very important
00:52:03
Speaker
ah
00:52:09
Speaker
I'm not subscribing. so ah her hip Fair enough though. Yeah. um So when you think about platonic life partners, or basically those kinds of relationships, do you think they are a better model than traditional relationships?
00:52:36
Speaker
See my facial expression? no you yeah yeah yeah I Honestly, I think at this point, because things have become so, I don't know, different, i would say to each their own. yeah For example, that's what I would say, to each their own.
00:52:57
Speaker
but But for me, honestly... Yeah, let's just stick to to each their own. But on a personal, my preference, just go traditionally.
00:53:11
Speaker
I'm not subscribing to any CG Platonic Life Partner. No.
00:53:20
Speaker
Whatever tickles your fancy, you go for it.
00:53:25
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I would think, honestly. Mm-hmm. Yeah, but I think they definitely an interesting type of relationships to probably explore.
00:53:38
Speaker
Yeah. And see. For people who don't want package, the romance package, then it makes sense for sure. Yeah. Yeah. For real, honestly, if somebody is not interested with that, on you know, with the romance and all that, it kind of makes sense yeah to have that kind of arrangement.
00:53:59
Speaker
But anyway, I don't know in the long term how sustainable it Or they'll be out here and then we'll start saying they're cheating on their life partner, on their platonic life partner at some point.
00:54:12
Speaker
Hopefully not. When they get out of the arrangement. oh yeah Yeah. But I don't know. Whatever the relationship, I hope they don't get to cheat.
00:54:27
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. True, true, true, true. Everybody should stay faithful. Yeah. At least they try to. Oh, yeah.
00:54:39
Speaker
At least they try to. their best. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. So you you hinted on this a bit early on about transactional relationships, you know, like marriages of convenience.
00:55:02
Speaker
oh Oh, maybe a good example actually is like, you know, sugar relationships.
00:55:11
Speaker
You know sugar relationships? shuday Sugar daddy, sugar mommy, like those kind of relationships? Uh-huh.
00:55:21
Speaker
Uh-huh. Do they ever get married for those ones or it's just the benefits?
00:55:27
Speaker
Exactly. So my question is because these are relationships. Yeah. Because the point is we are looking at relationships in general. so Are these relationships then less valid because love is not at the center of them?
00:55:52
Speaker
o Good question. I think they're as valid as the other relationships.
00:56:01
Speaker
They're as valid as the other relationships. as long as everybody in this relationship is satisfied. Like whatever the convenience you are looking for, you get it.
00:56:16
Speaker
So if somebody is a sugar baby to somebody, maybe that person needed the the romance, the good times, and they get it. I've not heard of a sugar baby.
00:56:26
Speaker
There is sugar babies. Sugar got babies and sugar daddies. Now if you're somebody with sugar baby and he's your sugar daddy in this context, I'm saying at the end of the day, if it's mutually beneficial, i think they're also as valid because if everybody is getting what they want, maybe a sugar baby needs the money and a sugar daddy, maybe there's something they're looking for the company, the good times and whatever, and they're getting it. Then again, at this point, I feel it's as valid as just a relationship that we're
00:57:00
Speaker
Maybe there's love and people are feeling like, oh, I love him. She loves me. You know. Yeah. they Interesting. I think at the end of the day, it's the the benefits, the mutually beneficial, whatever.
00:57:16
Speaker
the kind of reciprocating that comes with these types of relationships, whether it's love, is the love reciprocated? If it is these marriages or relationships of convenience, whatever the convenience either party is looking for, is it being reciprocated? Are they receiving what they bargained for? If they do receive what they bargained for, then I think it makes sense.
00:57:38
Speaker
Yeah. Fair enough, fair enough. Yeah. Interesting though. I mean, it appears though to me that we are seeing a lot of these kind of relationships growing today.
00:57:58
Speaker
Yes. Like a lot of relationships that are becoming transactional. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:58:07
Speaker
That's actually very true. I don't know. It's more. that Yeah. What do you think is causing that? Do you think it could be social media or dating apps that are making them become more transactional?
00:58:29
Speaker
I actually think those two things that you've mentioned play a big role in these things becoming transactional. Because, for example, I think with dating sites, I've had people who go there, for example, because they want to maybe experience a type of a woman.
00:58:45
Speaker
And then there's also maybe some women would go there because they feel like a certain type of man would give them a certain type of lifestyle. You get? Yeah. And they definitely they look for that specific thing they're looking for and that dating site gives them that.
00:59:02
Speaker
And then with social media also, there's also the pressure to live a certain way, to look a certain way, to do things a certain way. So I feel definitely those two are a major player into how transactional these things become. Also, because for example, if I'm dating somebody and then maybe we are flaunting our lives on social media and I have a friend and they're also doing the same, there's also going to be this sort of comparison You are here comparing your relationship with your friend, maybe, or the people you see online.
00:59:34
Speaker
And maybe you feel like, oh, but their partner does more for them. So you are here out competing each other. So it turns up being more transactional, honestly, than the you know the traditional feeling of I love this person.
00:59:48
Speaker
They are my person. Behind the scenes, they treat me better or whatever. Now we are out here. We are trying to showcase the kind of lifestyles we want to live. want to out-compete each other.
00:59:59
Speaker
Yeah. So it ends it ends up being more transactional. And how much can my partner do for me?
01:00:08
Speaker
Right. No longer about you're my ride and I. Or die. know. ah Very it true. Very true. That one is becoming i whatever of the past.
01:00:26
Speaker
Oh my God, I feel at some point, to our maybe our kids in the future, they'll be having this conversation and they'll be like, oh, are you ready to die? oh Oh my God, that was something of the past.
01:00:38
Speaker
We're talking about what can you give me and what can I give you and that's it.
01:00:48
Speaker
Yeah, so.
01:00:52
Speaker
Well, I think clearly... we can We can see all around us that relationships today evolving beyond love based models.
01:01:09
Speaker
Yes. We are now seeing new structures emerging. Yeah. Yeah, relationships that that's true doesn't fit the so-called love-based relationships. Oh, yeah.
01:01:27
Speaker
Yeah. That's actually very true. Things are changing and they're changing pretty fast. So we need to keep up. I know. I know.
01:01:39
Speaker
oh yeah. Yeah. includ To love and find authentic love right now. I feel like at some point, it's going to be like a social currency to sort of find, um you know, that type of traditional love. It will be something people will be bragging about.
01:01:55
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Because it will be it will not be so common at some point. Yeah. Yeah. But Kimaru, baby, let's be real.
01:02:09
Speaker
can
01:02:14
Speaker
relationship actually last if there is no love honestly according to me i feel like there needs to be some certain percent of love percentage of love it can just be dry dry
01:02:38
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah, I feel like, I don't know. I think love is important, honestly.
01:02:45
Speaker
Maybe for some people, maybe it might last for them, but I feel for me, I feel like there needs to be some element of love into it.
01:02:55
Speaker
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Like love is love is sort of like part of the package.
01:03:01
Speaker
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, that's it. There needs to be love. It can just be like... I ah was... No.
01:03:14
Speaker
What? So a relationship cannot last ah without love.
01:03:23
Speaker
According to me, my personal perspective, I feel like love needs to be... It plays a very big role in a relationship being sustainable. Mm-hmm. And especially in the context of the love, we talked about the outpouring love.
01:03:37
Speaker
Yeah. It's a very important thing.
01:03:45
Speaker
ah You know, i was listening to... So, there is this Adventist preacher in Kenya.
01:03:58
Speaker
You probably know her. She's a woman. The controversial one. I have forgotten her name. Is it Elizabeth or something like that? I know her.
01:04:11
Speaker
She was saying,
01:04:17
Speaker
you don't do but you know't marry to be to be to be happy or that there's happiness in marriage.
01:04:29
Speaker
ah hu and I was just wondering, like you know, She was pushing more towards the idea that, you know what? Marriage is not for happiness love. I was like, okay.
01:04:43
Speaker
What is it for, mom ah And? ah It appears to me that she would disagree with you.
01:04:59
Speaker
i think honestly no no no i honestly that's what i think she would agree with you other he yeah she would i agree with you yeah then there needs to be love
01:05:16
Speaker
if i don't love somebody she would disagree with you and You disagree with me? Okay, but for me, I think, as I said, there was a point I made at some point that as far as love is concerned, I feel like I'm not going to listen to a preacher, for example.
01:05:34
Speaker
I feel like, not not to sound like rude or anything, but I feel like love does not come with any manual. I'm going to read my Bible, and then I'm going to go with what I feel works best for me and my partner.
01:05:50
Speaker
yeah Like that's the word going to exercise in my life. Like what works for me, there is no ballpark yeah for this is how you do love. This is how you do a relationship.
01:06:01
Speaker
It differs from one person to the other. I could have probably in my past loved somebody or been in a relationship with the person. And the way I would love a partner I have right now is not the same. ah i Like the same love maybe be I love that person.
01:06:17
Speaker
So again, because of all these things that are, that you know all these things that play into it then would say like love keeps evolving depending also on who you are with what you're doing the circumstances surrounding your relationship so yeah that's why i don't think i would count on somebody's exact advice on whether on how love should exactly be done yeah yeah Absolutely. That's why I don't think I would advise somebody on how they should do love.
01:06:54
Speaker
Right. Yeah. What would you do? They usually say follow your heart. i would say, follow your heart. Follow your heart.
01:07:06
Speaker
um If you're in love with the person ex and you feel they are the one you're in love with, You know, go do your thing.
01:07:17
Speaker
It makes you both happy. Go for it. I know. Right? Exactly. Yes. Yes, please.
01:07:30
Speaker
did No, I i totally, totally agree with you, by the way. I don't think there is any manual for these things. You go for whatever, wherever your heart leads you. That's where you go. Yes.
01:07:42
Speaker
Yes. Yes. And then you create an environment.
01:07:54
Speaker
when you think about it though, there are relationships, just as we have discussed earlier, that appear not to have something like love in them.
01:08:07
Speaker
What keeps those relationships together? The arrangement,
01:08:15
Speaker
but the arrangement, yes, the benefits. And if the person is receiving whatever but benefit they signed up for in the first place, if they're both receiving what they signed up for in the first place, that's what keeps them going because everyone gets the end of the bargain, the end of the bargain.
01:08:34
Speaker
he
01:08:37
Speaker
Right. That's how it works. That's why they'll be sustainable. Mm-hmm.
01:08:46
Speaker
That is interesting. I know, it is. so
01:08:53
Speaker
yeah. do Do you do you and then think, since there are all these benefits and what and so forth, do you think we maybe underestimate the power of companionship, um of mutual respect,
01:09:15
Speaker
um and even shared ambition, like in relationships.
01:09:23
Speaker
Yeah. I think we do downplay it sometimes. who
01:09:28
Speaker
Yeah. I think it is downplay sometimes. Sometimes, just like you said earlier. ah
01:09:40
Speaker
Yeah. Like sometimes, ah you know, something you mentioned something you mentioned before is that sometimes people like go into relationships, not necessarily because they love the other person. Maybe it's just because they're feeling lonely.
01:09:59
Speaker
And so they just need a companion. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe others just basically use... relationships as a method to gain some respect and maybe other benefits that are associated with relationships.
01:10:23
Speaker
Yeah. I think most of the times we never want to have that sort of conversation in the context of companionship, shared goals, ambitions and stuff like that, because we've masked relationship into this.
01:10:40
Speaker
It's just love. That's why maybe even when you think about sugar mommies or sugar babies or whatever, it will be frowned up upon yeah because the construct of what a relationship should be, it's love.
01:10:56
Speaker
That's why i mean most of the time people would avoid those types of conversations where you think and or maybe don't play the role of maybe companionship and these shared goals and whatever in a relationship.
01:11:09
Speaker
Because you're only just thinking, oh, it's supposed to be about love. And then these other things now can come. Yeah.
01:11:17
Speaker
Yeah. Interesting. You know, yeah but yeah we...
01:11:27
Speaker
Just as from what you said, the yeah understanding, and even this is what I believe in, is that when you're in love,
01:11:40
Speaker
then there is a likelihood that you will be happy in that relationship. Right? It's like yeah love equals happiness.
01:11:55
Speaker
Now it might not be maybe as a simplistic as I have put it, but I would like to think that when, when there is love, there is ah level of happiness.
01:12:10
Speaker
that you get to have in that relationship. Yeah. Because I think you can basically see, like, for example, when couples are fighting and what, and all those kind of stuff, happiness is yeah out the window and stuff like that.
01:12:26
Speaker
Momentarily. When you think about it,
01:12:31
Speaker
Yes, momentarily. In some cases, permanently. oh no.
01:12:44
Speaker
But when you think about such a conception ah love and happiness, and then you think um about people who are in relationships without love,
01:13:01
Speaker
Like, do you think such people end up being unfulfilled or feeling unfulfilled?
01:13:10
Speaker
The ones who are not in a relationship and the ones who are what?
01:13:16
Speaker
So, like, that was people who end up in relationships without love.
01:13:23
Speaker
Ah. And the ones who are now an not in a relationship. So, the idea... Yes. No, they are in our relationship.
01:13:35
Speaker
But they are in our relationship without love. You remember? you were the one that slayed their relationships that existed without love.
01:13:49
Speaker
So my question is just, for those are relationships,
01:13:56
Speaker
since happiness is tied to love, Do these people actually end up feeling unfulfilled or are they still happy?
01:14:10
Speaker
they i think it could be both.
01:14:13
Speaker
it could I think it could be both depend it could be both depending. Because if it's, this other a like, from the word go, it was a literal personal choice from the beginning, and you stick to that choice, you're definitely going to be happy, especially if you're getting the end of the bargain.
01:14:30
Speaker
But if at some point now you start wanting more, the more that you're not receiving, so you've changed the term. You've changed the terms and conditions. then you're going to be unfulfilled.
01:14:41
Speaker
yeah Yeah. So it could it could be either, depending.
01:14:47
Speaker
Hey, you have change terms and conditions, then boom.
01:14:56
Speaker
So it appears that um some relationships can survive and even Thrive without love.
01:15:12
Speaker
But of course, the dynamics are different. Yes, exactly. Totally, totally, totally.
01:15:23
Speaker
Yeah. But so do you think we have been conditioned to think of love as the ultimate goal of life?
01:15:37
Speaker
Yes. Because, you know, like, even as kids, you know, we are made to think like, you know, you're looking for your prince charming. Right in shining armor.
01:15:51
Speaker
Sweep off. Sweep me off my feet. Please. Yes. Yes.
01:15:58
Speaker
No, I think we really romanticized love. And we were as you said, we have been conditioned to look at it a certain way. Yeah. And sometimes I feel like realistically speaking, yeah when you look at it in that one very sighted way specifically, then there's also little it's likely that you might um have false expectations around love.
01:16:25
Speaker
And what sort of yeah relationships should look like, which can be very disappointing. And that's why I was also kind of think why maybe relationships and marriages are falling apart quite easily nowadays.
01:16:40
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I also feel like, actually, that um the media and pop culture has hugely, hugely influenced our belief that every relationship must be based on love. 100%.
01:17:04
Speaker
is one is license Yeah. Yeah. So we have been made to think that that we we are chasing love.
01:17:20
Speaker
But, you know, what if maybe in a reality what we are chasing is actually something else, not love? Could be stability. Could be shared values.
01:17:36
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
01:17:39
Speaker
No, honestly, you're making a lot of sense. Stuff like that maybe might matter more.
01:17:44
Speaker
Actually, yeah I agree with you 100%. Like the love, yes, it's very important. But especially when you're looking at, for example, a a more long-term relationship and when you really want to settle down with people, I feel like, or somebody, love cannot just be enough.
01:18:02
Speaker
You need all these other things that you're talking about. It's like all of these things have to balance each other out. The love is important. And also these things, these are the things that coexist with the love.
01:18:14
Speaker
So you can't just look at it like, Oh my God, I love this person. But do you have shared goals? Do you, do you have yeah yeah whatever, whatever it is you're looking for and you want as a person.
01:18:29
Speaker
Do you have similar interests, for example? Or do you support their interests? Or would you compromiseris yeah compromise for them at some point? All these things, yeah. so yeah
01:18:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's like, definitely. yeah Because for some people, removing love from the equation makes the relationship stronger.
01:18:59
Speaker
For others, it makes it weaker. ah hi Oh, yes. I know, I know. That's what I was saying. There's no one way of doing this thing.
01:19:10
Speaker
It's like whatever works for you, you have to figure out what works for you and go for it.
01:19:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Clearly, though. Love is... Maybe love might not be the only... Or even at best, might not be the only foundation for a successful relationship.
01:19:39
Speaker
There has to be something more. Not just the love.
01:19:46
Speaker
I think that's true, honestly. Yeah.
01:19:52
Speaker
Oh my god this's ah This skit I came across, I think on Facebook or maybe YouTube, where this guy basically says, you know, he loves this woman very much and stuff like that.
01:20:14
Speaker
And oh the woman was like, look, I love you too. I appreciate that. But are we going to eat love? Mm-hmm.
01:20:25
Speaker
I've heard that a lot. You know, love is not going to feed us.
01:20:33
Speaker
Oh, no. Oh, no. Uh-huh.
01:20:37
Speaker
Yeah. So, yeah. You know, like, when I think about that and all this other stuff you said, all I just see is that, yeah.
01:20:51
Speaker
Love might not be the only or even the best foundation for a successful relationship.
01:20:59
Speaker
Honestly, I feel it cannot be the only, but it is among the best, like the top, top whatever for a good foundation of a relationship. And then of course, these are the things. yeah I agree. All these are the good stuff.
01:21:12
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah.
01:21:19
Speaker
I have a quick question. This is very personal.
01:21:26
Speaker
I'll try and answer. I can promise. oo have have you ah Have you ever been in a relationship that worked without love?
01:21:44
Speaker
No.
01:21:47
Speaker
Worked without love. yeah But I have been in a relationship which was was a one-sided love.
01:22:00
Speaker
Yeah. Not entirely that there was no love, but one-sided. Yes.
01:22:07
Speaker
As in you you were giving way more than the other person.
01:22:28
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. That's true. Oh, man.
01:22:37
Speaker
Okay. It's fine. You don't need to answer that. Have I've already answered you. I've said for sure, yeah, have been in one that you give more than you receive. Yeah.
01:22:49
Speaker
Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah. I mean, we just wanted to know, I suppose, if it was, you know, you that were giving, you know, a bigger share and ah the other person was giving. Yeah, that's what I was telling you.
01:23:09
Speaker
When we began this this conversation, those types of, that kind of love, you end up, overcompensating because this person is not pouring into you.
01:23:20
Speaker
Yeah.
01:23:24
Speaker
And can be exhausting actually. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. So have you ever been in new one yourself? What's the biggest what?
01:23:36
Speaker
but it
01:23:40
Speaker
um mean Wait, before you ask me, have you ever been in a relationship that didn't have love or it was one-sided?
01:23:49
Speaker
yeah i Yeah, I think so. yeah Which one? One love or one-sided?
01:23:58
Speaker
ah i I would say both, actually. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. But I think the one-sided one was particularly really different.
01:24:16
Speaker
Okay. Not we? Yeah. so It left a mark.
01:24:23
Speaker
A special one. Interesting. think Oh, wow. Okay. Because I had to work 10 times or 20 times harder
01:24:37
Speaker
to impress that person and didn't work.
01:24:44
Speaker
My Lord, are sorry.
01:24:47
Speaker
See what I was saying? When it's a one-sided thing, you have to overcompensate. ah Keep pouring into this thing to sustain it. And it is draining. Interesting.
01:25:00
Speaker
Oh, wow. It is. Yeah. It is. Yeah. Which was why I was telling you that I i agree with you when you said when people find themselves in such a relationship, they probably and would need to walk away. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:25:21
Speaker
You know, based on their own assessment anyway. ah That's true. What's going on. Yeah. Yeah. And if it is something that can be salvaged or not.
01:25:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Very true. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. So I wanted to ask you.
01:25:48
Speaker
about ahha what do you think is the biggest myth about love, um any relationships that you think people need to unlearn?
01:26:01
Speaker
o that's It's always gonna v me it's gonna be very blissful. like it's like And they lived happily ever after, just because you love each other. Ever after.
01:26:15
Speaker
Yeah, happily ever after. honest Honestly, I think that's like the biggest myth about love. that's ah It's actually very unsustainable. Love, I think love comes with a lot of ups and downs because it's you are meeting this person, you've got to learn them.
01:26:32
Speaker
There's going to be a lot of things that might change even in your relationship with time. So, yeah. It's always going to be, there's going to be good times and bad times and all that. So the bliss that they keep talking about happily ever after, it's definitely a myth.
01:26:48
Speaker
Yeah. That you need, you need to deconstruct to be able to enjoy our relationship. Yeah. Right.
01:26:56
Speaker
Interesting. and they lived happily ever after. ah In fairy tales.
01:27:08
Speaker
Yes, in fairy tales only. Exactly, in fairy tales only. It doesn't happen in reality. so
01:27:17
Speaker
But there are relationships that actually ah really happily ever after.
01:27:26
Speaker
Honestly, have ah relative of mine he that I would think for them is actually that. don't think it's very subjective. Of course, they might have had their own issues. Yeah?
01:27:48
Speaker
No, I think that's kind of very subjective. Also, I think you can also have a happily, a relatively happily ever after, depending on how you handle your issues.
01:27:59
Speaker
Like you're going through issues issues in your relationships. How do you communicate? How do you communicate with each other? How do you you, you have an argument? How do you find your way back to each other?
01:28:09
Speaker
Like it's more about, how you even solve problems or communicate in that relationship that will determine if it will be a little bit more blissful. Or because if you don't know how to communicate and you're in an argument, it means that an argument that could have lasted a day is lasting you a month.
01:28:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So this whole month, maybe there is no bliss. Yet there you could have had the bliss a day after the argument. But because you didn't know how probably to communicate, then it becomes that your storms become longer when they could have been shorter. So I guess also depends on how you handle issues.
01:28:50
Speaker
Interesting. So it's not a fairytale after all. Yes, it's not. There's going to be ups and downs, but find india find a way to deal with those.
01:29:03
Speaker
Yeah. But when you think about it, real life stories challenge the idea that love is the only foundation for our relationship, our connection.
01:29:22
Speaker
That's true. Yeah. Very, very true. These foundations are built on different stuff. Some are built on love.
01:29:33
Speaker
Some are built on money. Some are built on political influence.
01:29:39
Speaker
Children. Some are built on
01:29:46
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. oh yeah. Yeah. Interesting, though. Yeah. But when when you look at relationships now, right?
01:30:01
Speaker
You know, we've we've looked at relationships from a historical point to our time today. And I'm just wondering, what do you think about the future of relationships?
01:30:15
Speaker
Do you think we are moving toward a post love society. yeah ah society where...
01:30:31
Speaker
Yes.
01:30:34
Speaker
i think so. I think people, there's gonna be, I feel like in the future, there might be more marriages of convenience or relationships of convenience.
01:30:47
Speaker
you know these things people keep asking other people, at you what do you bring to the table? It sounds like that will be a more common thing that people would be asking in relationships.
01:30:58
Speaker
Right. Yeah, so. Is that bad to ask a relationship?
01:31:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think it is. I think it is to us it is bad to ask in that direct way. Because I feel like by the time you start dating somebody, or even as you date somebody, you should do do your due diligence to find out what you actually think will bring to the table.
01:31:31
Speaker
i think According to me, honestly, I think it's something that you shouldn't ask. You should be able to figure it out because you're trying to learn ah about this person, find out more and find what intrigues you about them and things like those. So with time, should inform you what they definitely bring to the table.
01:31:53
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. True. True. You can tell, you can tell what somebody brings to the table without, without asking them. Yeah.
01:32:05
Speaker
yeah Because actually that has been a contentious issue. Women don't like being asked that question, honestly. The people I have interacted with, they don't like it he Yeah.
01:32:16
Speaker
I mean, honestly, it does appear also a little bit rude. I mean, I can understand where someone might to be coming from.
01:32:29
Speaker
Yes. But to some extent, it sounds Mm-hmm. Yeah, which is what I'm saying. If you're dating somebody and you even when we want to settle down with them, that is a time when you do your due diligence and figure out what is this person bringing to the table.
01:32:48
Speaker
I probably like her because maybe she can do ABC or I like him because he can do XYZ, whatever. So that exactly is what this this person brings the table. tab You don't need to ah to ask them.
01:33:01
Speaker
You can see it. So why are you not asking them? Yeah, yeah. And goes both ways for men and women. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.
01:33:14
Speaker
Yeah. And I think, honestly, like, when when you see things like pre-napture agreements and... wow Yeah.
01:33:28
Speaker
And many others. Yeah. it It appears that...
01:33:34
Speaker
yeah people we we are seeing new models of relationships emerging that challenge the traditional love-based relationships yeah that's true yeah yeah interesting maybe maybe before
01:34:02
Speaker
Yeah. Maybe before we we wrap up, um right
01:34:09
Speaker
will we love always be the ideal oh do you think we will redefine relationships in the future?
01:34:23
Speaker
no Oh, whether we like it or not, they're going to be redefined. That's for sure. Things have changed and they're changing pretty fast. So they're going to be redefined for sure. Yeah. I don't think we can. It's like the way we embraced AI. It was just the other day there was no AI.
01:34:38
Speaker
And then right now we're using stuff like ChatGPT to do all our writing or generate ideas for different things. So I think it's almost inevitable. Yeah.
01:34:50
Speaker
It's going to be redefined. True, true, Yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Because also the way we love right now is also not the same way our parents loved. Sorry. Mm-hmm.
01:35:01
Speaker
Oh, yeah, it's true, though.
01:35:05
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, though, because relationships are evolving and they are evolving so fast.
01:35:19
Speaker
It's a good thing. yeah I think, yeah. um But as you look at it um it, it also does seem to suggest that love may not always be at the center of them.
01:35:40
Speaker
This is not to say love is not important. it is important. ah hu Yeah. Please do love your partners.
01:35:51
Speaker
Yes, please. Yes. We are not advocating for people to stop loving their partners. Yes. Disclaimer. I agree with you.
01:36:04
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
01:36:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think, yeah. I would think that in my opinion, especially from a very Christian standpoint, I would think that relationships should be based on love.
01:36:22
Speaker
yeah yeah Others might disagree with me, but that's totally fine. ah I agree, honestly. Yeah.
01:36:34
Speaker
So... um After everything we've talked, we have talked about do so many things.
01:36:45
Speaker
ah After everything, is love truly necessary? Or is it just, you know, one of many ways to build strong relationship?
01:37:01
Speaker
Is it necessary?
01:37:03
Speaker
I think my answer would be both it's necessary and also it's still one way to build a strong foundation for a relationship. Yeah. Yeah.
01:37:16
Speaker
Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. And but what do you think? he ah What do you think? so Is it necessary or is it just one of those?
01:37:32
Speaker
I mean mean, in my opinion, i would think that and
01:37:38
Speaker
it's it's very important to have love if you want to have ah uniquely...
01:37:50
Speaker
fulfilling and happy relationship. This is not to suggest that other relationship might not necessarily give you that feeling. I think they can. ah But I think there's just something so special about being in love with another person that really makes you um in a way, i don't know,
01:38:19
Speaker
it makes you to to to be so different. You know, you you you you get to care about another person way more than you do for yourself.
01:38:33
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Like you get to see each other as just one. Yeah. So...
01:38:41
Speaker
yeah yeah
01:38:46
Speaker
so a
01:38:49
Speaker
Yeah. ah her Uh-huh. So, uh, uh, why are you laughing?
01:39:01
Speaker
No, I'm happy to hear that. Uh-huh. Finish your sentence. Uh-huh.
01:39:13
Speaker
Other relationships are valid. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They are valid. I think just as we have discussed, relationships are built on different foundations and for different reasons.
01:39:35
Speaker
Right. um But I think that even though sometimes when people say there is no love in it, I think there is.
01:39:46
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's definitely something that is love-like. The quantity might not be ideal.
01:40:02
Speaker
Subjective.
01:40:04
Speaker
Yes. ah have ah But there might be something there. Yeah. So, yeah. So, a final thing. Yeah. What is one thing you want our viewers and listeners to take away from this conversation?
01:40:27
Speaker
who I think it's um yeah yeah love and relationships don't have a manual. So you go there and do you and work work with what works for you and your partner honestly.
01:40:42
Speaker
Yeah. And keep learning because our relationship is more about like learning what works for you, works for your partner, what doesn't work, what needs tweaking and stuff like that, compromising and all that. So yeah, create and build your own manual that you can work with and stick to that. Yeah.
01:41:04
Speaker
that Absolutely. ah Yeah.
01:41:09
Speaker
No, me too. Yeah. Follow your heart. and Whoever your heart leads you to, hope that you find happiness and fulfillment there.
01:41:23
Speaker
And but great hopefully, yeah, both of you, whoever i is involved, you both find that happiness and and fulfillment. Yeah.
01:41:38
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you so much, Kimaru baby. It was nice having this conversation with you. It's been a ah I know. Thank you. Yeah.
01:41:51
Speaker
Thank you so much. Yeah. If this episode sparked something in you, don't forget to subscribe. Leave a review and share it with someone who needs a little inspiration.
01:42:09
Speaker
Follow us on our social media platforms at the Spark It podcast. See you next time on the Spark It podcast with Patrick CJ and Kimaru Baby.