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Brad Balukjian
178 Plays5 years ago
BRAD BALUKJIAN hit the sweet spot of the baseball in his new book WAX PACK. The book is a joy for baseball freaks but also serves as a fantastic memoir on relationships and life. The LA Times Bestselling book is a road trip journey of history and the psyche. Built on the randomness of a fifteen pack of baseball cards with a crisp stick of tongue cutting gum, Brad builds a 10,000 mile adventure into the strange character of American baseball. Brad is a Ph.D., a fighter for the underdog and the working stiff, a writer and a Rhode Islander who now lives on The Best Coast.
Brad tells a bit about himself here:
"Brad Balukjian is a doctor, but not one who can write you a prescription (unless you're a sick insect). He hated school when he was little, but now loves it so much that after graduating from the 23rd grade, he has moved to the other side of the desk to teach natural history at Merritt College in Oakland, California. He has strong opinions about the value of education, exposure to nature, and utility infielders from the 1980s, and is pursuing a hybrid career of teaching, writing, and research to get the word out that science is accessible and (gasp!) fun. He chose this path because he never wants to stop learning and apparently has a strong aversion to money. This is his first time writing in the third-person."
https://www.bradbalukjian.com/books/
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to Something Rather Than Nothing, creator and host, Ken Volante, editor and producer, Keter Bauer.
Introducing Brad Belucian
00:00:15
Speaker
You are with Ken Volante with Something Rather Than Nothing podcast, and I'm very excited this week to have a guest, Brad Volucian, who
00:00:26
Speaker
I encountered a new book he's written called Wax Pack, a baseball book about maybe a throwback activity getting a pack of baseball cards and the random component of which players in there. What's different is that Brad got a few of them and then picked one of those cards and set out to try to visit.
00:00:53
Speaker
each of the players in that pack and find out after baseball what they were doing. This pack was from 1986. And we're going to talk about that book. And we're going to talk a little philosophy, a little bit of art, a little bit of Rhode Island.
Brad's Roots and Passions
00:01:10
Speaker
He's a Rhode Island native now on the West Coast, very much like myself. Brad Beluxian, I want to invite you to something rather than nothing podcast. It's a great pleasure to have you on the show.
00:01:22
Speaker
Thanks for having me on, Ken. Again, again, my pleasure. Brad, first question, what were you like as a young kid? I was very quiet. I got picked on a lot. Like my hardest years were middle school, junior high,
00:01:42
Speaker
an awkward stage. I was late to hit puberty and late to develop. So I had a really squeaky voice and was really short and buck teeth and not exactly a ladies man. But I was also very studious. So I got shoved into the nerd camp pretty early on there. But it's also always someone that I think didn't follow the crowd. I had my strong convictions and
00:02:13
Speaker
and never wanted to feel that I was being pressured to do anything. I just thought for myself, very independent in that way. I'm always been grateful that I knew exactly what I was interested in. My passions were very clear from a young
Childhood and Baseball Cards
00:02:30
Speaker
age. I loved baseball, I loved islands, which is something that ended up taking me all the way into my career. I know it's odd to have a favorite landform, but I did.
00:02:43
Speaker
I loved professional wrestling. I had these very clear passions that I still consider my passions today. I love your response. It's always interesting when I talk to guests as far as how they viewed themselves as young age. Sometimes it's like somebody's a painter, they're three years old and kind of painting watercolors.
00:03:10
Speaker
Yeah, and just then ended up just doing it later on. But you grew up in Rhode Island, which I did as well. And if I'm correct, you grew up in in Greenville, Rhode Island, which is how far is that from Providence? It's about 12 miles northwest of Providence, up in the northern part of the state. Yeah. So
00:03:33
Speaker
During that time when you were younger, of course, you picked up the habit of collecting baseball cards. When did that happen and how did you get into that? I wish I could remember the very first day I saw a baseball card, but I can't. But I do remember that my dad was a huge baseball fan and got me into following baseball.
00:03:55
Speaker
and looking at the standings and the box scores. And then it must've been him, he brought home some cards, he collected them as a kid, then brought me home a pack of cards and said, hey, you might like these. And that's all I needed to, somehow the cards made it so much more tangible and real to me.
Underdogs and Advocacy
00:04:17
Speaker
And then I just became fascinated by the players and their stats and organizing the cards and trading them and all of that.
00:04:26
Speaker
Yeah. And how did you, did it end up becoming a little bit of a habit, little bit of an addiction? I mean, how'd you support your addiction? My allowance wasn't that big, but I was able to, you know, get, get cards here and there. And I always liked in a way my, it was convenient for my, my wallet because my favorite players were the common cards, the kind of underdog guys whose cards were basically worthless. So I would be at my happiest buying a bunch of 3 cent common cards. You know, I wasn't,
00:05:10
Speaker
out to get all
00:05:19
Speaker
I just kind of stumbled. My jaw drop in, you know, you had a favorite player, Don Carmen. I was like, I kind of, you know, remember that name. But, you know, you're very clear in talking about, you know, the underdog. And it's definitely a great, you know, great passion of mine. You know, I work in the labor union. And when it came to baseball cards, though, I just wanted to tell you my strange thing with it. I like the big stars. I really did.
00:05:48
Speaker
Like I remember when I first started collecting, uh, you know, Dwight Gooden, right? Who of course shows up in, uh, well, doesn't show up in, uh, you know, uh, you know, a chapter in your book. Um, but, uh, I also like kind of the players that were personalities, even if they weren't that good, who did something kind of strange or were flamboyant or like kind of didn't follow the rules kind of, you know,
00:06:17
Speaker
I always found the baseball rules to be, uh, some of the traditions are okay. And some of them are just like, uh, I think these traditions need to be, uh, you know, broken or something. Um, but you, you talk about, uh, you know, just being into regular, you know, those, those common cards and you've, you've kept that, uh, throughout and, uh, what's it like for.
00:06:42
Speaker
What was it like for you talking about that when some of your heroes or some of your favorite players were ones that were tough for others to remember? Well, yeah. I never wanted the players to think that I was making fun of them, because I was genuinely, truly, sincerely interested in fans of those guys. The underdog players don't have huge fan followings, but I think
00:07:12
Speaker
For me, it's been a common theme in my life that I always will go and root for the group that is underprivileged or underdog or has less power. I've seen that play out in so many parts of my life. I'm still adjunct faculty at a college here in Oakland, California.
00:07:34
Speaker
the inequities and the disparities between how adjunct faculty are treated versus full-time faculty led me to become the rep for all the adjuncts in our union. So it's become a theme of mine that I feel very strongly about justice and about helping those that are not in the position of power. Yeah, and I really appreciate that and definitely connect
00:08:03
Speaker
uh definitely connect to um the work that you do and also want to thank you you know for your service and and helping um helping other other workers um so you know before we fully blast into some of the baseball stuff i just wanted to ask you you know um you know your processor you know your professor um and you have you know other interests but you know now you're going to be interviewed and you know uh identified as as a writer what
Creative Nonfiction and Storytelling
00:08:34
Speaker
You know, writing is a particular art form. For you, what art forms do you enjoy? I mean, do you enjoy books? What are your favorite types of art? Yeah, for me, so even though I didn't have a background in sports writing, I have actually been a writer for a long time. My first job out of college was working at Islands Magazine in Santa Barbara as a fact checker and an editor.
00:09:04
Speaker
And then I've freelanced over the years, worked for the LA Times Science Desk as a reporter for a summer. So I've always had this dual career of journalism and science. And this is the first time, this is my first book, and it's sort of outside my usual area, because I usually write about science.
00:09:28
Speaker
My training and what I'm really passionate about is narrative nonfiction and creative nonfiction. And that's, you know, it's harder and harder to do that because there are fewer outlets that publish it. So it's become very financially, not very viable financially. But my favorite form of art is that creative nonfiction. And that's, I was so happy to finally have a chance to do that in writing this book.
00:09:58
Speaker
Um, and so, and I think, you know, creative nonfiction is just, is just one form of storytelling. And I think storytelling is something that almost all of us can, can relate to or attracted to, whether it's in movies or books. I mean, I, yeah, I'm, I love to read, I would say reading is my number one form of art consumption, maybe followed by, by TV and movies. Um, and in terms of art, you know, I, to me it's, it's,
00:10:27
Speaker
really fun to be able to have these vastly different careers because in my biology professor world, which is science, it's, you know, it's science, very much left brain objective analysis. And in the writing, it's very much the right brain, the creative part, the artistic part. And so I like being able to toggle back and forth between those two realms of art and science. Yeah. And it's, um,
00:10:57
Speaker
It can be difficult. I see on the outside, you know to try to define or explain, you know Who are you I think in the in the book? Great great picture Rick Sutcliffe Kind of rolled up and you're ready to interview him. It's like, you know, what's your story buddy? You know like that type of thing and yeah, sometimes it's tough to it's it's it's tough to explain I am
00:11:23
Speaker
I had interviewed recently Rachel Balkovic, who's the first female hitting coach in Major League Baseball history, working for the New York Yankees. Part of my looking at baseball was always, as I got older, I looked at it more as far as the art of hitting, according to Ted Williams and some famous Japanese players.
What is Art?
00:11:51
Speaker
You know, I also look at the art of pitching, but before we get into some of that stuff, what about the big question on art before we move on? What is art for you? Well, I think art is just expression and it is how humans express themselves and their creativity. It's a form of communication.
00:12:20
Speaker
Um, but it's, it's personal, it's, it's belief-based, I think it's subjective. Um, you know, again, I, and I'm, I'm actually not a good person to talk about visual arts. I mean, I'm woefully incompetent when it comes to anything sort of visual art, spatially, um, you know, my art, my artistic talents are more limited to the, the writing world. But, but in terms of, I mean, I think that, that in the way that science is a way of understanding the world, using,
00:12:50
Speaker
objective evidence and the weight of objective evidence, art is unburdened by that expectation, and that's what makes art so freeing. Art is emotional. Emotion is the foundation of art, whereas there is no room for emotion in science in terms of the actual data.
00:13:20
Speaker
One way I had in talking about this was with recently I'm not sure why I'm referring all these different episodes lately I guess I've done enough episodes, but um dr. Aaron McDonald was a one of my guests and and she you know She's a scientist PhD space science. She explains, you know, dripping black holes and multiverse But she's also a consultant creatively on science fiction shows so it's very interesting to look at
00:13:46
Speaker
As you try to navigate the technical, the technique of science with art and trying to meld those two is, what areas are they overlapping? You can speak cohesively about them. And it sounds like with your work in trying to create things, you kind of navigate
Publishing 'Wax Pack' Journey
00:14:08
Speaker
that terrain a lot.
00:14:09
Speaker
Well, I think, I mean, I think art and science are fundamentally different, but that doesn't mean that they can't coexist and work together, right? I think too often we get in trouble in science when we forget that we're all human. Scientists are humans doing science. So the science itself, we know we strive to be objective, but ultimately, you know, we make mistakes and we have our biases that seep into our work. And I think also with science, science does no good if it's not applied
00:14:40
Speaker
to society and science needs to inform policy in order to be meaningful and effective. Sometimes the application of science to policy and society requires more art in the form of how you communicate and how you interact with people. Those are all the sort of
00:15:05
Speaker
you know, the skills that make a great science communicator, which is very different from a great scientist. Um, and from the art side, you know, if, I mean, you look at baseball, which I think is this sort of beautiful blend of art and science, um, baseball has had a huge influx of, of science with analytics and, and yet the game, if the game was just about analytics, it wouldn't have the,
00:15:34
Speaker
the power that it does. And so there's a sort of, there's an importance of art in baseball as well. Yeah, that's a, that's, that's, that's a, that's just a great point. Um, yeah, the rise in analytics and the science of it. Um, yeah, the science and art right there. Well, let's get in, let's get into the, into the baseball. And I know you've been, uh, you know, you, the, the book came out, waxback came out, um, I believe might've been, uh,
00:16:01
Speaker
Right at the beginning of April, very recently, right? Last few weeks. Happy to see it's shown up on the LA Times nonfiction list, correct? Yeah, I just found out this morning. I was super excited. I got an email and said, oh, you're on the best seller list for the LA Times, which I had no idea. So I was excited to see that. Especially the story. I don't know if we'll get into this, but the story of the book
00:16:28
Speaker
getting published itself became an underdog story and dealing with all the rejection and all of that. So yeah, talk about that. Talk about that right now, Brad. Let's launch into the wax pack. Tell, tell the story to wax back. How did it come about? Sure. Well, I mean, it started, it just has an idea in 2014 to, to write a book based on a pack of cards and it's pretty simple premise. You could write a lot of different books with that conceit. Uh, and I, I tinkered with different ideas like, Oh, maybe I'll write about,
00:16:55
Speaker
what happened in the 86 season told through the perspectives of the different players. Then I realized really, I thought the best possible book would be one that was road trip based and that was about what happens to these guys when they're done playing. Also, it provided an opportunity for me to insert myself as a character in the narrative. I think
00:17:17
Speaker
One thing I realized in writing the book was how I'm, I think, at my strongest as a writer when I'm a participant in the story. I mean, I'm not so interested in writing just straight memoir, but that sort of blend of memoir and reportage in a narrative nonfiction context is sort of my sweet spot. And so
00:17:41
Speaker
I had the idea, I got the pack, I did all the research and contacted the players. That whole part, while it was challenging, went off really well. The trip was fantastic in 2015.
Themes in 'Wax Pack'
00:17:54
Speaker
Because I had so much interest from agents to represent me, and when you're trying to get a nonfiction book deal, you basically need to have an agent if you want to get any kind of
00:18:04
Speaker
decent financial deal from the big publishing companies of which there are basically five that control all the publishing in New York. They call them the big five. And so my agent, we went out with the project and then started getting rejected. And then that sort of started a couple of years of writing proposals and rewriting and changing agents and all in all getting rejected 38 times, which was really demoralizing.
00:18:32
Speaker
Because I never felt like the rejections were based on the quality of the work. I mean, they even said as much. They were like, well, it's great idea and great writing, but you don't have 100,000 Twitter followers and no one knows. And you don't have a platform. So we're not going to basically take a chance on you. And that's all I wanted was someone. I mean, I knew I was an unproven commodity and it would take a risk.
00:19:01
Speaker
But I really believed, you know, I think I'm self aware enough to know when I have something that's good or not good. And, you know, I have plenty of stuff that's not good. But I, I just never stopped believing I had this strong conviction that if I could just get a chance to write the book that was in my head, it would it would work. And finally, the University of Nebraska Press was willing to take a chance on me and signed
00:19:25
Speaker
signed a deal with me, but it was for very, very little money. I mean, they're a very small publisher. They can't afford to offer big book deals. So basically any chance of making this at all financially viable are based on selling copies now in royalties. So to see the book hit a best seller list is feels like great vindication. And that was Nebraska University. So
00:19:52
Speaker
So Brad, originally from Rhode Island, living out in Oakland in the University of Nebraska comes through. I've never heard it put that way, but that's a great, you know, here you got East Coast, West Coast and the center. Yeah, you got the call up from Nebraska and it's good. I mean, it's fantastic that the book is out there and
00:20:16
Speaker
You know, for, for listeners, I mean, I, I've read the book. It's a great book. It's a sweet spot for me. Um, you know, 1986 baseball cards, uh, you know, it, but you know, it's, it's very clear, uh, Brad in the, in the, in the book about, you know, you saying that doing straight memoir. Um, but, but, you know, you're talking about.
00:20:39
Speaker
you know, your relationship to your heroes and there's a certain randomness within the pack, your relationship to, you know, friends, family, and your father. Did you feel that the book really ended up being about, you know, all of that, or did you see, were you surprised as something developed that you were writing and be like, I didn't mean to write about this, but here we go.
00:21:08
Speaker
Well, some of the some of the themes came out as I met the players, like the father-son theme of how many guys had had really bad relationships with their fathers. I didn't know that going in. So that became something. But I knew that I wanted to write a book that would go beyond baseball, that would be very personal and that would ultimately, hopefully engage the reader emotionally and in a way that
00:21:35
Speaker
that they would resonate because the reader could relate to these sort of universal themes. I mean, I think everyone has, has made a mistake and has had their heart broken and has been in love and has experienced fear and, and rejection. And, you know, so the way, if I could use my story and the baseball player stories to get at those larger themes, I felt like that would allow the reader to emotionally invest in the whole narrative. And, um,
00:22:05
Speaker
And so I always had very, I mean, it's always very ambitious. I remember in the early stages when I was sort of going back and forth with the editors and the agents and the gatekeepers of publishing, they kept pushing me to make it more straight baseball. And I kept saying, it's not really a baseball book. I mean, it's really, I get it, it's really ambitious and risky because it's mixing travel and sports and memoir.
00:22:30
Speaker
in this sort of unconventional way. Most sports related books are not like this. That was the void that I was trying to fill. They may have thought there was no market for it, but I always believed that there was because it's a book that taps into your emotion. It must have been quite, I don't want to speak for you, but
00:22:56
Speaker
quite the tension, as you said, it was difficult to have this, you know, book see light, and then you want to control, you know, what, what, what the darn book is, um, that must have taken some time and, and dealing with, you know, you want to get, it's that dilemma. You want to get the book out there. You want it to be true to you, but you also have to understand that you don't control all elements of it. Right. Well, I think, I mean, so when I was,
00:23:23
Speaker
facing my 38th rejection, my agent at the time actually said to me, I think we've reached the end of the road here. And I said, I don't think so. And that's when I went off. I actually ended up not even having an agent with Nebraska. And to Nebraska's credit, they gave me the freedom and the space to write the book I wanted to write. And I don't know what a bigger publisher, maybe that would have been more contentious.
00:23:51
Speaker
But I'm always grateful to my editor, Rob Taylor, and the people at Nebraska, because they said, OK, we trust you. You go do it. And I'm glad that I was able to do that. OK. And then on the road trip portion of it, the book itself, you get into your Honda, adjunct professor. You say, I'm
The 'Wax Pack' Road Trip
00:24:15
Speaker
all right. I'm going to start. I'm going to start.
00:24:17
Speaker
So just, you know, for, for, for the listeners without, you know, giving away, you know, all the elements of the book. I, again, I recommend the book to, to the listeners. Um, fantastic book. I actually downloaded it on, um, uh, a Nook, which I hadn't used for years. So it's nostalgic going back about at the Barnes and Noble thing. Yeah. Yeah. The Barnes and Noble Nook. So it's nostalgic for me going back to 2014 to download it on the Nook and then nostalgic to travel back to.
00:24:47
Speaker
to 86. But you get in your Honda and you start your trip. So to the level you want to share, tell folks what happens. You get in your Honda, you start visiting the players. What happens? Well, 11,341 miles of road in seven weeks. It was basically, I'd planned the itinerary in advance, but you never know
00:25:18
Speaker
So I started going down Central Valley of California, down to Southern California, and then just drove across with a bunch of zigzags. And I would get into a town and meet up with a player, and I would try to vary the environment in which I met the player for the narrative's sake.
00:25:38
Speaker
for example, Randy Ready, we go bowling and go to the gym and Rick Sutcliffe took me around his neighborhood where he grew up and his high school and I watched Kung Fu movies with Gary Templeton. So it was fun to do a lot of different things with the players. And then when a few of the players that were more famous did not want to talk to me, those chapters are about the
00:26:03
Speaker
rogue and kind of unorthodox tactics that I use to try to find them. And those are kind of entertaining, I think. And, um, so, uh, for folks who might not be familiar with, with baseball cards, I believe in that year, there would have been 15 cards, right? How many players did you, uh, did you end up visiting? So there were of the 15, one of those cards with the checklist.
00:26:30
Speaker
one of them had passed away. So for him, I went and met up with his cousin and his son. So that's 13 of the 13. I think I let's see, I got extensive time with nine of them briefly met another one. And so what there were three that I never really got to meet. I was, as I mentioned, I'm from Pataka, Rhode Island with the Pataka Red Sox. Actually, I think I might say
00:26:59
Speaker
I don't know if this is their last year. They're moving. Um, I think they're gone. Yeah. Yeah. They're moving to a Wista. They moved to Wista big controversy from where I'm from, but the tucker red Sox are the triple A the highest level before you get to the major leagues. Um, and, uh, a famous, uh, family friendly venue in, in Pawtucket, Rhode Island, where you actually, I think you ended up there for a bit in the, in the boat journey. Yeah. What were your impressions of, uh,
00:27:28
Speaker
McCoy Stadium in Pawtucket, Rhode Island. Well, it's funny because I went to McCoy many times as a kid on class trips, and the Paw Sox were just a fun, cheap night out. But when you're a kid, you don't see the world in the same way as you do with your adult eyes. And so coming back and seeing it in my mid 30s, I remember just being struck by how much of a
00:27:52
Speaker
of a time capsule it seemed to be and that like it's it's you're you're in this very blue collar suburban neighborhood and all of a sudden you hit a minor league baseball stadium you know it's not like it's surrounded by a lot of retail and you know and sort of a modern look yeah and I love that I love that it's just this neighborhood ballpark very sleepy you know hasn't changed a lot and so yeah I got I went there to meet up with Richie Hebner who was
00:28:21
Speaker
coaching a minor league team that was in town to play the Pawtucket Red Sox. Yeah, that's right. Of course, you've been to a few games I had gone to a lot and I mentioned in a separate, just a message to you, in 1981 there was the longest baseball game in baseball history that my dad
00:28:45
Speaker
took us to I think we're there to about the 11th of the 33 innings I remember as a kid we had that they would give away a the cup that you would get your soda in was oh my gosh yeah the 30 32 innings and then they resume the game another day right yeah and let me tell you just a quick thing about you know McCoy Stadium and then I had a
00:29:10
Speaker
My brother and I were really big into getting autographs in access in Pawtucket. It was really good. So it was really a special thing. I don't know if you remember. I mean, sometimes you'd have a really a top notch Major League Baseball player, you know, on a rehab assignment or, you know, up and coming stars that
00:29:32
Speaker
It isn't like after the game ended that everybody was accessible, right? I mean, it's baseball. Some guys are really big, and they want to go to their bar, or they want to get out after a long game. But a lot of players stuck around and spent the time. And for me, the baseball experience was prior to the game, getting a lot of autographs. And then after the game was really a five to six hour
00:30:03
Speaker
trip. And so you went quite a few times and I'd imagine you had a nice experience going to the Pawtucket Red Sox games when you were younger, right? Yeah, it's funny. In the book, I actually went in and went before the game and saw a bunch of those, a bunch of the fans getting autographs. And, you know, that's a scene that I think is just part of the baseball experience. Yeah. Well, one of the questions I have,
00:30:32
Speaker
on baseball and you're an educated guy with a PhD, a lot of different interests. I've always found baseball to be just a top subject for me, and I have a lot of idiosyncratic, nontraditional views on baseball myself. One of the things I think baseball does in general, regardless, is to attract thinkers
00:31:01
Speaker
who think about the game. It seems to be a sport that brings in a lot of elements of culture, a lot of analysis, a lot of thinking. Why do you think baseball attracts thinkers like yourself? Well, I think it's been around forever. I mean, it's the oldest sport of the major sports. And I think that it's really that
00:31:26
Speaker
that it's slow. I mean, I think a lot of the reasons why people don't like it are the reasons why people that are, you know, maybe more literary or, you know, as you see, you know, wanted to deep thinkers, they like baseball because it provides all this time to think and analyze and reflect. And I think baseball is the ideal sport for building relationships because of all that downtime.
00:31:54
Speaker
And there's also, you know, there's a lot of unseen strategy that serious fans are aware of. And of course it's a very quantitative game in terms of all the statistics and the analysis. And so people get really into that. I mean, I'm not as interested in, in the, the granular details of all that, but I think the, the, this, the sports,
00:32:21
Speaker
again, it's sort of languorous pace is very conducive to a literary feel to it. Something to do between innings almost, right? Between pitches, I mean, yeah. Between pitches, right? There's a component, you know, in the book that struck me as a big theme and
Baseball's Intellectual Appeal
00:32:50
Speaker
I think it fits into a kind of popular baseball stereotype, right? The guy on the road, right? Um, the, the, the, the stress on the family. And I had the weird anecdotes, you know, like around the, uh, when I talk about the, it sounds, when I was talking about, you know, the autographs and the autographs at the, at after the game, it sounds, you know, like, you know, quaint and nice. And it really is, but there was also the John after the game with prostitutes with him for,
00:33:19
Speaker
Um, for the players, it was very, it was very clear, like in, and there's this, uh, you know, it's kind of like the under the underbelly of, you know, Pawtucket that was readily apparent where I grew up. But, um, you talk about relationships in the book and you talk about, you know, guys on the road. I think that we say you're on the road. So even after they might've retired, they would be on the road. They'd be moving up through the coaching ranks and single A or double A.
00:33:48
Speaker
I mean, that become a huge piece of, as far as the tension on family, the stress on family, or what family is, that seemed to be a huge theme that just really emerged from your book. Yeah, I know. I think that's exactly right. I mean, the road trip motif, I think, works really well.
00:34:13
Speaker
for the book because of the fact that baseball is this game that's so associated with all the travel and being on the road. And it just brings up all these stresses and challenges that are very, very difficult to deal with. So right now, one of the questions I have, given the radical changes in the world with the coronavirus, there's a lot of discussion around what is the role of
00:34:43
Speaker
of art or books or sports in a pandemic. A lot of baseball fans are waiting for baseball, but of course it has to be safe on a level that we would understand. What do you find the role right now for, say, sports right now in a pandemic as far as what people need and what we can expect?
Baseball and the Pandemic
00:35:14
Speaker
Yeah, I think we, we, I personally am not a big fan of rushing any of these sports back, including baseball. I would be fine if there was no season this year and I miss the game a lot. I think I really, I do think that, that baseball is this salve and this, you know, this, this very healing thing in our lives, but the idea of,
00:35:42
Speaker
bringing the game back when clearly we don't really have a handle on the epidemic, the pandemic, and the testing really isn't there yet. I don't feel good about them trying to rush back just to assuage people's stress. Not to mention the ideas of having no fans and having not the traditional leagues. I just think it's a
00:36:12
Speaker
it's unnecessary and I think it's the owners really just wanting to save some money. Um, you know, they're, they're going to lose their shirt just like everyone else is losing their shirt right now. Um, so while I've recognized the vital importance of, of sports in our society, I don't really advocate rushing them back. Yeah. Well, I want to, uh, the, uh, I want to talk just Oakland for a second. Oakland Coliseum, um, has a,
00:36:41
Speaker
bad rap. Had a bad rap before I went to it. I love the Oakland Coliseum for very particular reasons for me, including the price to get really nice seats. Absolutely. So I love the Oakland Coliseum. I've been a few times when I moved to the West Coast, I started going. I'm like, I like this place. What are your impressions at Oakland Coliseum? Yeah, I love it. I mean, I talk about it in the book. Same reasons you do. I mean, to me, a baseball field.
00:37:12
Speaker
is a baseball field. I mean, yeah, it's nice. I mean, you know, again, maybe if you have, you're going with a family and you want entertainment, but to me, the entertainment is on the field. So, um, I'm fine with it being kind of a dump. Um, and as you say, you can go really cheap. I mean, last year I had the A's access and you get tickets to all 81 games for 280 bucks. You know, it's incredible. Whoa. Yeah.
00:37:38
Speaker
and half off on all your concessions. So it's a great deal. And I would actually go up in the nosebleeds and have like a whole section to myself and really enjoy it. Because I mean, for me, it's also like I'm happy going to a game by myself. It's very meditative for me. I also like going with people, but it's an entirely different experience when I go with other people.
00:38:00
Speaker
I, uh, we have a, uh, we share a peculiar habit when it comes to movies and, uh, baseball games, I liked the, I liked the solitude. So, uh, that that's great. And you can find some big spots, you know, I think maybe when Tampa Bay is playing in Oakland, you can have some wide stretches of real estate over there at the Coliseum sometimes. Oh yeah. Yeah. Um, so one of the, one of the,
Science and Art in Baseball
00:38:29
Speaker
questions I have. It's a little bit bigger question related to your, you know, creative process. But, you know, you're a writer, a researcher. You ever step back and say, in particular with this book, why am I doing this? Why do you create? Well, I think for me, it is
00:39:01
Speaker
It's curiosity. It's like in inveterate curiosity that's just inside of me and I have this passion for learning and for finding things out that fulfills me. That process of learning and answering questions brings me happiness. I really enjoy that process.
00:39:30
Speaker
I think where I like then sharing that with other people and hope that other people relate to whatever it is that I create. But it's really coming from this sort of whatever it is that I happen to be passionate about wanting to
00:39:52
Speaker
There's the element of wanting to find out, but then also wanting to share it in a way that is artistic and that resonates with other people. And I think, ultimately, I'm driven in my writing career more by, and even in my scientific career, more by sort of knowledge for the sake of knowledge than anything that's overly applied. In my scientific research, there are scientists that
00:40:21
Speaker
are out there trying to solve big problems, whether it's pandemics or climate change, and all these things are vitally important. But I've always been honest about the fact that my interests are not so much applied in that way as they are creating new knowledge and understanding the world for the sake of it, which is a very abstract
00:40:47
Speaker
kind of touchy-feely motivation, but I think it's also necessary, it's part of our human condition to want to learn and understand and be curious. And I think it's still vitally important even if it's not solving these direct problems. Yeah, I got two or three more pitches for you, Brad, okay? I'm not gonna tell you what they are. You have to be ready at the plate. Okay.
00:41:15
Speaker
Uh, grew up in Rhode Island. You remember Rocky point? Sure. Yeah. I remember the commercial. I still can think of the jingle in my head of the commercial. Rocky point. It's so exciting. We got a, I'm gonna have a guest coming up. It's going to talk about the next couple of weeks, the urban legends of a Rocky point. One of the things I didn't know is that it actually started or was built in 1846 or something outrageous like that. They had like, like the oldest, it closed in the nineties, but, um,
00:41:44
Speaker
It definitely made me realize why there are so many urban legends and haunted stories about Rocky Point. It's an institution for Rhode Islanders. Here's the slider coming at you. Why is there something rather than nothing? Why is there something rather than nothing? Now we're getting into some real philosophical stuff here.
00:42:15
Speaker
Well, I how do we know that there's that there's that there isn't nothing? I don't know. I mean, it's I don't know. To me, it's it's an unanswerable question. And maybe that's the point. Right. That is. I tell you, I've been waiting for that answer for a while. It's one of the identified unanswerable questions in some traditions.
00:42:42
Speaker
I, uh, one of the, one of the things, um, one of the things just to drop back into what, what you were saying, one of the, uh, when you were talking about some of the, uh, you know, players that were heroes or you're really interested in, there were the common cards. Uh, I remember a quote and I'm paraphrasing was from a pitcher pitch for the Red Sox for a little while. He also pitched for the Baltimore Orioles for awhile, Mike Baudicker. Oh yeah.
00:43:09
Speaker
And when Mike Baudicher pitched for the Red Sox, he went on a stretch. I don't know when the heck it was, but he went on a stretch where he was on hittable. You know, when pitchers were five, six, seven, eight, nine games or a season like, uh, Doc Gooden, we just can't hit him. And they were talking to him. He threw a lot of junk balls, you know, he threw every, every type of pitch imaginable. And they said, what's, what's going on? I mean, you just seem to be in some sort of zone.
00:43:37
Speaker
And he says, I knew I was in the zone during this streak, because during one of the games towards the late innings, I was making up pitches. He was so into it, he was putting his hand on the ball in a different way, and it still worked for him. That's the ultimate confidence there, yeah. Mike Botticra, I'll never forget that.
00:44:05
Speaker
the why is there something rather than nothing may be an unanswerable question. Um, uh, Brad, uh, uh, Belucian, uh, here, um, Brad, can you, uh, wrapping up here, can you, uh, tell folks, um, you're interested in a lot of stuff, but tell, tell them how to connect, uh, with you, with the book, uh, with your, you know, attempts to, you know, popularize science, uh, you know, your science writings.
Connecting with Brad
00:44:34
Speaker
you know, all that other stuff that you do, can you point listeners in the right direction to connect with the work you do? Yeah, sure. I think the easiest place is to go to waxpackbook.com and from there you can link out to my personal websites and read more about my projects. I'm also on Twitter at waxpackbook and I'm pretty active there. So yeah, I love to hear from, from readers and answer questions and you know, it's,
00:45:04
Speaker
One of the more rewarding things now that the book is done is to be able to actually hear people's feedback. So I encourage people to get in touch. Yeah, Brad, I want to say, as I told you before, I'm really excited to have you a guest on the show. And when you put something out there, you have a book that is personal and about a topic that people enjoy and has nostalgic elements.
00:45:33
Speaker
There's a lot of power to those words. And just for you as an author, just to pause and say, it's a great, great experience to read about some of the common elements of the human experience and about life and family that's in the book.
00:45:57
Speaker
but also just to be talking about, you know, things that you forgot, baseball players that forgot anecdotes that you forgot. And I think your book, you know, kind of pulls all these pieces together. So it's really a significant work for me. And I just wanted to, you know, sincerely and directly thank you for, you know, your journey. And I think, you know, five, six years for you to, you know, get it out there. 38 rejections. I tell you, brother, I don't, I,
00:46:27
Speaker
I don't know how to, you know, I try my best with meditating what I don't know how to handle, you know, four or five rejections, 38's a lot. So I appreciate your perseverance in putting this out and really applaud you and, um, and, uh, you know, showing up on the New York Times, you know, nonfiction list, uh, wish you a lot of success with this book. Um, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's great work you're doing brother.
00:46:51
Speaker
Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I've done a lot of interviews, but a lot of them ask the same questions over and over. So I really appreciated you having some really original questions and thinking more broadly about art and beyond just the scope of the book and what it's about. So it's always fun to have a conversation about these bigger things. Thanks again, Brad. A great, great
00:47:18
Speaker
great luck and fortune in your efforts. And, you know, as we hope and cross our fingers and pray or whatever anybody wants to do about things, you know, come back to normal with travel or when safeguards are in place, I hope, you know, that whatever the equivalent of, you know, the road trip and what you could do in the future, you know, comes about for you. But again, Deep Thanks, Brad Belucian, author of The Wax Pack.
00:47:48
Speaker
um uh thank you for stopping by something rather than nothing and um really appreciate your time. It was a pleasure thanks for having me. Okay take care brother thank you. All right you too. You are listening to something rather than nothing.