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Womanist Bioethics: Faith, Policy & Action With Dr. Wylin Wilson
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Black maternal health is a crisis — Black women face far higher maternal mortality and maternal mental-health risks. In this episode Dr. Wylin Wilson (author of Womanist Bioethics: Social Justice, Spirituality, and Black Women's Health) joins Bruce Anthony to trace the history of segregated hospitals, unpack the Momnibus and Pregnant Workers Fairness acts, and explain how the Black church, doulas, midwives, and cross-sector collaboration can drive real birth equity. We discuss postpartum depression in Black mothers, why suffering has been normalized, the policy wins we need (Medicaid reimbursement for doulas, workplace accommodations), and practical ways faith communities can become sanctuaries and first responders for maternal care. Tune in to learn concrete actions you can take in your state, how to partner with grassroots groups like Black Mamas Matter Alliance, and why centering the most vulnerable advances justice for everyone. #blackmaternalhealth #maternalmentalhealth #healthequity #womanistbioethics #Momnibusact #DrWylinWilson #unsolicitedperspectives
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Chapters:
00:00 Voices for Change: Black Women, Faith & Health Equity 🎙️🙏🏾💥
00:21 Welcome to Unsolicited Perspectives 🎙️
00:47 Black Women & Healthcare: Dr. Wylin Wilson Interview 🎙️💔
02:35 Dr. Wilson's Journey: From Family Love to Bioethics 💝
08:24 Hospital Segregation: A Hidden History Revealed 🏥
13:25 The Black Church's Legacy of Healthcare & Community Care ⛪
18:24 Normalizing Black Suffering: The Root of Health Disparities 💔
22:32 Fighting Fatigue: How Love Fuels the Fight for Justice ✊
26:10 We Are Sanctuary: Our Moral Responsibility to Each Other 🕊️
31:27 Women is Bioethics: Centering the Vulnerable for Common Good 📚
32:29 The Black Church's Unique Strengths in Health Advocacy 🙏
36:31 Maternal Mental Health Crisis in Black Communities 🤰
39:58 The Momnibus Act & Critical Maternal Health Legislation 📋
43:18 History Under Attack: Why Our Stories Matter Now 📖
46:07 Taking Action: Collaboration for Birth Equity & Change 🤝
48:11 Strategy Session: Bringing All Sectors Together for Care 💪
50:12 Breaking Down Barriers: Discovering We're Mistaken About Each Other 🌉
52:28 Thank You for Rocking With Us! Subscribe & Share 🎬
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Transcript
Black Women and Medical Risks: Faith, Community, and Policy
00:00:00
Speaker
Why do Black women face far higher risks when it comes to medical attention and how faith, community, and policy can work together for change? We gonna get into it. Let's get it.
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome. First of all, welcome. This is Unsolicited Perspectives. I'm your host, Bruce Anthony, here to lead the conversation in important events and topics that are shaping today's society. Join the conversation and follow us wherever you get your audio podcast. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for our video podcast, YouTube exclusive content, and our YouTube membership.
00:00:40
Speaker
Rate, review, like, comment, share. Share with your friends, share with your family, hell, even share with your enemies.
Introducing Dr. Waylon D. Wilson and Her Work
00:00:47
Speaker
On today's episode, I'm joined by Dr. Waylon D. Wilson, author of Wominist Bioethics.
00:00:54
Speaker
We'll be talking about Black maternal health crisis, why Black women face higher risk, and how faith and policy can drive change. But that's enough of the intro.
00:01:05
Speaker
Let's get to the show.
00:01:14
Speaker
My guest today is Dr. Wayland D. Wilson, Associate Professor of Theological Ethics at Duke Divinity School, where she teaches in theology, medicine, and culture initiative. She is the author of Economic Ethics in the Black Church, and her latest book, Women's Bioethics, Social Justice, Spirituality, and a Black Woman's Health.
00:01:32
Speaker
Dr. Wilson's work focuses on intersection of bioethics, gender, theology, and racial justice, with particular attention to the Black maternal health crisis in U.S. She's also leading a research project on the role of the Black church in addressing racial inequalities in health.
00:01:49
Speaker
I'm honored to have her on the show today. That's enough of me talking. Let's get to the of interview. So as I said at the top, I'm here with Dr. Wilson. Dr. Wilson, I want to thank you for joining me and my audience. This conversation that we're about to have, I feel is very important.
00:02:06
Speaker
And it's ah it's my pleasure to have you on the show today. Thank you. It's wonderful to be here. Okay. So let I always start these interviews off with a question of how it all begins. So you've built a career at an intersection of bioethics, theology, and gender.
00:02:24
Speaker
Can you share a little bit about your journey from your childhood to your academic career to getting to this point? How did you get to this very unique path? No, that's no, thank you. Yeah. So my journey, I'll say.
00:02:41
Speaker
It began with just a whole bunch of love. My family is, i mean, some of the most loving people you'll ever meet. Wild folk, loud folk, but loving folk who taught me the significance of loving and caring for other folk in our community.
00:03:02
Speaker
who taught me how to put myself first in the sense of I'm so, you know, how we see a lot these days, unfortunately, people who I'm so self-important, like it's all about me. But thank God I was in a family of people who believed in serving others and and who believed in, in putting others first, night not to the detriment of themselves, not not that kind of dangerous self-sacrificial kind of love, but just a true love and care for community and for and and just this
00:03:41
Speaker
this embrace of ah the the gift that life is to us, right? It is just such a gift to be a part of the human family and and to be sustained by The earth, right? That's another gift.
00:03:59
Speaker
The sustenance that the earth gives us, the nourishment through food, just all that we receive as a gift in this life. And so to honor that and and to to to to to give back to others.
00:04:15
Speaker
Yeah. That's how it started with my family. That's how it started. So it starts with your family. But eventually you progressed through middle school, high school, and you get to college.
00:04:27
Speaker
Yes. Was there a moment, was there a moment where you said, aha, this is, this is the direction I want my life to go in?
Impact of Segregation on Black Communities
00:04:36
Speaker
Yeah, I will say before, I'll say even before college, I grew up hearing, because I'm a child, ah i' I'm a child that was born just 10 years after the desegregation of hospitals, right? Mm-hmm.
00:04:52
Speaker
of public hospitals. And we talk about desegregation of school systems and restaurants and other public facilities, but we don't talk about just how much damage has done, how how much death occurred in Black communities and even among poor whites during segregation because these minoritized individuals were not served by the medical system.
00:05:19
Speaker
And so I grew up hearing these stories, horror stories, Black folks who went to medical facilities for care, but where care was lacking because of that intersection, right, of race and health.
00:05:37
Speaker
And so hearing those stories about how our medical system failed Black folk, failed poor folk, right?
00:05:48
Speaker
That really, really helped me to develop this this understanding that these institutions that we build as a society can do so much damage when we don't have people prioritize or when we have only some folk prioritize. Right. And so, so that I think was really important and that really helped to form me and form my understanding about how, how we should be thinking about how institutions work.
00:06:24
Speaker
And so by the time I got to college, I majored in agriculture. I am truly a daughter of the soil, if you will. okay If I could literally, if I could literally, I kid you not, just go and have myself a little farm somewhere, I would do that.
00:06:40
Speaker
But in the meantime, I've just tried my hand at gardening and whatnot. but But I truly love agriculture and I majored in agricultural business at the Florida Agricultural Mechanical University.
00:06:52
Speaker
And I am a rattler. green Orange and green blood flows through these veins. I'm telling you right now, they gave me my foundation and and I love FAMU for that. But yeah, so majoring in agriculture and and then going on and majoring in agriculture, agricultural economics.
00:07:12
Speaker
Right. So I come out of college with this clear understanding that the solution to problems is this kind of economic solution. Cause it, and we hear that a lot, right? Well, if there's a problem, well, if for poverty, people need more money, they need jobs and all that Yes. I'm not saying that's not true, but one of the things I learned on the ground in communities, and particularly when I was working at the bioethics center in Tuskegee, I got a chance to really learn that, yes, we we need to be concerned with economics,
Intersection of Healthcare and Economic Issues
00:07:51
Speaker
but my goodness, if people are sick, they cannot work, right?
00:07:56
Speaker
If we're not taking care of the health of individuals, then they are at such a great disadvantage when it comes to even trying to take advantage of opportunities that they are in the community.
00:08:09
Speaker
So, so, so I really got this beautiful understanding of just seeing how everything works together. And that's that's how I got to bioethics, right? Because here I am, house was all even through my graduate program, was looking at community economic development, the importance of that, right? And the role of the church in that. I was really sold on that.
00:08:33
Speaker
and And I still think it's super important. I'm still very much someone one advocates for that. But we have to at the same time. ah attend to the health disparities that exist in our communities and in minoritized communities broadly in this nation.
00:08:50
Speaker
So you brought up something interesting at the top and my audience knows I'm historian, right? Degree in history from yeah the University of Maryland. Go Terps.
Desegregation of Hospitals: A Historical Perspective
00:09:02
Speaker
But but. i think As I've gotten older, I'm learning, even with my history knowledge, my American history knowledge, and even the knowledge that I know about the civil rights, you just informed me that hospitals were segregated. Now, I figured,
00:09:18
Speaker
that we Black people were always getting poor care. I didn't know that the hospitals were actually segregated, which I guess would make sense if you segregate in restaurants, bathrooms, water fountains, why would you not segregate hospitals? So when did hospitals during the civil rights movement become desegregated?
00:09:40
Speaker
Right, right, right. So thankfully, hospitals became desegregated close to like 1964, right? There was a very important court case, a Supreme Court case, Simpkins versus Moses H. Cohn Memorial Hospital. It was really instrumental in the desegregation of hospitals. And it was ah some some doctors, some Black doctors here actually in the state of North Carolina But yeah, it it george Dr. George Simpkins, his patient was denied admission, actually, into the hospital. And so he filed a lawsuit.
00:10:21
Speaker
The hospital was receiving state and federal funds via the Hill-Burton Act in 1946, right? But anyway, but point is that this the point is is that this was This just denying people care because of the color of their skin was really, it was prevalent. I mean, remember when my, so my father grew up during segregation and he said, he said, when my mom would take me to the hospital, he said, there was a white waiting room and there's a black waiting room.
00:10:55
Speaker
And the white waiting room, there was carpet on the floors, nice cushy chairs was just beautiful. Walls were painted. said, and the black waiting room was kind of like, like back in the back where you had to go around.
00:11:07
Speaker
The floor was, it was unfinished. It was like dirty, dirt and concrete, right? Lawn chairs thrown in there, no paint on the walls. And so it was very interesting because here you are in a place to get care.
00:11:21
Speaker
And as soon as you walk in everything is screaming, we don't care about you, right? Screaming prison, you know which you're describing sounds like prison. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And even in some, and so it's interesting, I even wrote in the book about how in one place in particular, there was not a hospital that even served African-Americans.
00:11:43
Speaker
And so there they actually put them, they will put them into prison if they were sick, right? Because that's where, that's a that was a place that they had available. So it's just, I mean, so it's just wild when you look at the history of the medicine It is really insane to see what Black folks have suffered, what what minoritized individuals have have suffered.
00:12:10
Speaker
And so, yeah, so so because ah first when there were no Black hospitals and then Blacks weren't me being really served within hospitals, that meant that Black folk who were trying to be doctors didn't have a place for their training.
00:12:28
Speaker
Right? And so that meant then, so we needed, we needed Black hospitals and Black nursing schools because of course, you know, black women at the time, what was the majority, you know, women, right, were not allowed in in white nursing schools. So it was really beautiful.
00:12:46
Speaker
and love that history of black hospitals and black churches because, um and and a lot of black women from black churches and the black club women's movement, a lot of those women were raising money, right? Mm-hmm.
00:13:00
Speaker
putting, scraping those pennies, dimes, nickels, scraping all that money together to help establish Black hospitals, Black nursing schools. It's just a beautiful history of how our institutions within the Black community have a powerful legacy of care.
00:13:20
Speaker
um and And particularly the Black church, and I also wrote about that in the book of how that the Black church has a legacy of care. And in in these times that we are in right now, I think now more than ever,
00:13:34
Speaker
we really need to lean into that legacy of care, right? Because we we have to, we really have to to pick up where the shortfall is with a lot of the policy changes that have been made under this administration. I mean, it's just so much, a lot of the rollbacks even with environmental protections A lot of minoritized communities are going to be very much did by a lot of the rollbacks in environmental protective policies.
00:14:08
Speaker
So it's time that means then our institutions need to really and truly lean into that legacy of care because we we have to do it for ourselves.
00:14:21
Speaker
We really do. Yeah. And for the audience out there, I just want to put something in perspective for you. So you said the desegregation of high hospitals was in 1964. That was 61 years
Maternal Mortality Factors among Black Women
00:14:33
Speaker
ago.
00:14:33
Speaker
For some people, that's one generation. yeah listening, that's one generation. For some people, that's two generations. For me, that was my mom and dad's generation. For some people listen, it was your grandparents' generation.
00:14:47
Speaker
That's not that long ago. that's it So when people say, oh, that was so long ago, it's not that long ago. It really is not that long ago.
00:15:03
Speaker
You bring something up, and you were talking about Black people as a whole, but I i want to get gender specific here. So Black women in America face maternity mortality rates more than twice the number of white women.
00:15:18
Speaker
From your perspective, what are the biggest factors driving this crisis, driving this crisis? Yes. So there there are several.
00:15:29
Speaker
one One of the biggest factors is the the actual, I call it the the normalization of Black suffering, right?
00:15:40
Speaker
and Okay. and And that began, i mean, that began in the with the but with the literal birth of this nation, right? With enslavement, right? The suffering of Black people has been normalized and we've not come we've not come out of that.
00:16:00
Speaker
In fact, we we literally continue to live in that and live into to that. Because the fact that health disparities are what they are in this country, that that Black women are actually, half of Black women have 20 years and older have hypertension, right?
00:16:21
Speaker
Heart disease is the leading cause of death. Black women are more likely than white women to be diagnosed with diabetes, they're understudied in healthcare. care when You already mentioned the maternal mortality statistic, and and we haven't even scraped the surface of getting to maternal mental health issues, right? so So all of this compounded, right?
00:16:46
Speaker
and And now these disparities, they... they didn't just pop up a few years ago, right? Like our health disparities in this nation have been consistent, right?
00:16:59
Speaker
so So the reality is is that we have we are so desensitized to Black suffering and that's the fart And that's the first step.
00:17:12
Speaker
That is to me the first the first thing that I think we really have to deal with because because one of the things that that I know, and I even noticed listening to people in your community where folks talk about,
00:17:26
Speaker
our health disparities that that Black folk experience. and And it's almost like people kind of shrug their shoulders like, well, yeah, that's the way things are. No, we should we shouldn't literally be ah outraged at the statistics that of the health disparities that exist, right?
00:17:46
Speaker
This should be an urgent, this should be something that is urgent for us, right? We should feel a sense of urgency because it should be, no, no, people shouldn't be suffering like this. No one, Black, I mean, immigrant, nobody should be suffering like this.
00:18:02
Speaker
And so so I think that is one one factor, right? um But then another factor is that ah a lot of times
00:18:17
Speaker
We have these disparities that exist, these health disparities that exist. They cannot, of course, be attributed to just our behavioral differences, right? or Or biology. We know that we can't attribute just to that. But really and truly, there's been consistently a pervasive devaluation of minoritized bodies.
00:18:39
Speaker
And until we come in terms with that... Right. Until we come to terms with that, I think we will still find o ourselves struggling with health disparities. Right.
00:18:50
Speaker
in In years to come. But also, go ahead. Yes. and and No. How? OK, so that seems like and and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it kind of seems like when we talk about.
00:19:05
Speaker
When you give the example of people saying, well, that's how it is, that there is there is a sense of fatigue not just the Black community,
Love, Hope, and the Fight for Justice
00:19:16
Speaker
but in all marginalized communities, a sense of fatigue for constantly having to fight.
00:19:23
Speaker
And you're right. This is urgent. We need to... breathe more life into the fight and keep on fighting. But how do you do that?
00:19:34
Speaker
Because when people look at things now, i don't think they look at it in the lens of history, right? and life is Life is learned by looking at the past, but living for the future. So yeah People don't understand that in this present moment, there's a whole history behind a fight and it's just a fatigue. Like how, how, how much can you fight?
00:19:58
Speaker
So how can we energize the fight for those people that are just like, oh, yeah this is, this is how it is. Yeah. No, no, no. I hear what you're saying. And that's a beautiful point. And and that and that is that truly is the struggle, right?
00:20:14
Speaker
Because especially if you look at it kind of through this justice lens, right? Because people are like, look, you know, we've been trying to fight for justice. And it seems like when you make two steps forward, you're also making three steps back at the same time, right?
00:20:28
Speaker
and And I think... What's really important, a really important notion or way of seeing this is is looking at justice as kind of beyond this notion of just fair treatment, but to a notion of of faithfulness to the demands of a relationship.
00:20:47
Speaker
A lot of times, when we talk about hope, because a lot of people will say, oh, we just kind of have hope. We do have to hope for the future. We really do. but But we can't see hope as an event. Like, it's just something that's going to happen. like we in in And we can't see it as only connected to just merely our circumstances either, right?
00:21:10
Speaker
Hope has to be squarely centered in love. Because what I love I will always have the energy to fight for.
00:21:24
Speaker
Right? You know what saying? Like, come on now. Mama bear. You know, don't comfort mama bear babies. Talk about some energy.
00:21:39
Speaker
I'm just saying. You know what I'm saying? so yeah, so so so kind of really centering right? The significance of the demands of a relationship, that's where justice has to be for us.
00:21:54
Speaker
and And in the midst of that, that hope that we have, right? It's really and truly living into that love. and And I really think, and this may sound a little crazy, but we need to fall in love with each other as as communities, as humans, right?
00:22:12
Speaker
Just being able to look into the face of another, right? and And truly, with with all all of the fallacies, the foibles, all of the all of the the imperfections, but truly be able to love.
00:22:31
Speaker
And I don't think we even talk about that kind of powerful love. ain't talking that romantic stuff that's everywhere and all the songs I'm talking about. But I mean, that kind of love that for me as a person of faith that is mirrored in This faithfulness, right, to one another, the the faithfulness that that divine mystery blesses us with every day.
00:22:59
Speaker
My God, man, we walk outside and the sun is shining. Even on a rainy day, the sun is shining. You can't see because of the clouds, but the sun is shining. You know saying? We are literally... We are fed, right?
00:23:12
Speaker
By, we have vegetables, we have fruits, all of it that. is That is divine mystery. That is a loving creator. Always, always loving and caring and giving and gifting us every day.
00:23:25
Speaker
So I'm saying that, that, Us mirroring that kind of relationship to one another, right? and And as a sister a sister of mine, a sister here, Lydia Runoz, she was just doing a ah beautiful kind of word today, talking about how we need to be sanctuary for one another.
00:23:46
Speaker
Right? Yeah. Showing up in the world as somebody saying, what does it even look like for me to to be sanctuary for for somebody in my community?
00:23:57
Speaker
You know what I'm saying? Like that kind of love, that kind of love that really makes us wake up and say, what do I owe to those around me?
00:24:09
Speaker
And what's owed me? cause Because a lot of times we we we really, we may not really We think of it that way all the time of what is owed to me and what do I owe others?
00:24:23
Speaker
But that's important. It's important to think about that, right? Because we really do have a moral responsibility to one another.
Health Disparities and Black Women's Experiences
00:24:31
Speaker
Yeah. To care for each other. We have a hand in each other's health, right?
00:24:37
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and that's why, and I'm going to you, that's why I wrote my book. That is exactly why I wrote book. Because, and my book is not just for Black women, right?
00:24:47
Speaker
Black women is just the starting point. it's just It's just a starting point is to contextualize the issue of of health disparities and how that is also you know combined with spirituality and economic systems and healthcare care systems.
00:25:04
Speaker
All of these things work together as I contextualized it with the experience of Black women. But it's truly about you know our story as Black women is so much intertwined and connected to your story, you know, and other folks' stories, whether they're African-American, whether they're Latino, whether they're Native American, our stories are so very much connected. And I think that's one of the biggest lies that's being told to us, you know, now is that we are so different from each other that we don't have to become, we have a whole lot in common.
00:25:42
Speaker
And you being a historian, you know that. You know how how these threads come together. You get it. So let's talk about your book. and And please, you've explained a a little bit.
00:25:54
Speaker
Let's dive into a little bit more. The crucial aspect of why it's not centered. Black women experiences are not the center part. But why centering is so crucial.
00:26:08
Speaker
And what does this practice that you talk about in your book, what does it look like? Yeah. Yeah. So it's really, it's so significant for me. The reason I was- before was before we Before we get started, let's tell everybody the title of your book.
00:26:29
Speaker
we play We plug in your book. Go out there and buy the book. They need to know what the book is So that's a failure on my part. The book is Wominis Bioethics.
00:26:44
Speaker
Yes. All right. All right. Yes. Yes. That's right. Wominis Bioethics, Social Justice, Spirituality, and Black Women's Health. and and And the reason why I wrote it is because in order for us to to really get like this adequate understanding of of what justice actually means in human relations, right?
00:27:06
Speaker
It requires that we we start with the needs of those most vulnerable among us. And by listening to those who are vulnerable among us, we can get a fuller sense of what our concepts that we you know that we throw around every day, like neighbor love and respect and dignity, right?
00:27:27
Speaker
So how the God, we can get a ah real clear concept. clear, fuller sense of what those concepts mean. and And so what I try to really demonstrate in this book is that to prioritize the perspectives of those who are vulnerable for the sake of the common good doesn't devalue the gifts of folk who consider themselves not to be vulnerable, right? But it acknowledges the necessity of the gift of solidarity.
00:27:57
Speaker
That's what's important, right? this this This realization of how we are absolutely connected, how our stories are connected, right?
00:28:09
Speaker
And in my book, actually, it does show that the lives of of Black women actually testify to the current state of the healthcare system, right? And and and that that is doesn't just testify, um but it also interpret and critiques it, right?
00:28:33
Speaker
Yeah, interpreting critiques it. and And so that's why for me it was and was really important to include these different narratives, the stories.
00:28:46
Speaker
Yeah, it was very important to include these different stories so that so that people reading it could could actually get a sense of the what's going on in the lives of people who are being underserved within our healthcare care system.
00:29:04
Speaker
Folks who I say are on the underside, right? On the underside of our food systems, not just healthcare care systems, but even even economic systems. So so that's that's really, really important. And and I think that's one of the places where we really have to have to do a ah better job of really seeing how we are responsible for one another's health and well-being, full stop.
00:29:36
Speaker
So you're not speaking solely to equality here. speaking to equity, which are two different things. When you're talking about marginalized, that's the reason why, to me, it seemed like you've made a very clear point.
00:29:51
Speaker
We're not saying one is more important than the other, but what we are saying is there are people who are underserved, that even if you did equal, it still wouldn't make up for the fact that they've been underserved for so long. So we're not talking not solely talking about equality.
00:30:08
Speaker
We're talking about equity. That's
00:30:18
Speaker
You emphasize a lot in your book about the role of Black church and and specifically for advocating for health equity. That's the point, ladies gentlemen.
00:30:29
Speaker
Equity.
Role of the Black Church in Health Equity
00:30:31
Speaker
and What unique strengths does the Black church bring to this fight? Mm-hmm.
00:30:40
Speaker
Yes. So think a very important strength is definitely the this legacy, legacy of care, right? because Because the Black church was there.
00:30:52
Speaker
Black church being really like the first real institution in the Black community, because it existed even during slavery, but hi it had it was you know the hush harbors, right?
00:31:08
Speaker
So it exists kind of in in secret, because because it was, of course, against the law for us to to gather and stuff. They were scared of slavery, revolts and all that. but But so that Black church was always there during doing that kind of that care work, kind of bringing folks together caring for the souls of folk, but even the bodies as well. And so so the true real resource that these communities have is first and foremost, they are they are right there on the ground, right?
00:31:42
Speaker
So I call them the first responders because when it comes to issues like, so take the issue of maternal mental health, right? Black women suffer disproportionately from maternal mental health issues.
00:31:57
Speaker
And Black folks have real, I mean, talk about a disparity when it comes to access to mental health care services.
00:32:09
Speaker
Okay, so they go, a lot of times they'll go to that pastor first, right? Okay. Who is not equipped, who is not a therapist. And we got to be clear about that. They need to refer I need the refer.
00:32:21
Speaker
I say that all the time. Your pastor can give you religious guidance, but if you need mental health, you got to go to a mental health professional. Mental health care professional. So ah there are going to be some men that are going to be watching this that don't understand what maternal mental health is.
00:32:40
Speaker
Can you explain what that is? And can you explain why black women experience it at a higher rate than other women? Yeah, so it so oftentimes after a woman has given birth, and that kind of because one within a one-year period, a woman can go through something called postpartum depression.
00:33:07
Speaker
yeah Oh my goodness, this is real where a woman can feel because you see the beautiful images of mama with the baby. When you can tell there's that loving connection where postpartum depression can make a woman feel so much sorrow, so much, so they can struggle with even feeling a sense of connection to their own child.
00:33:29
Speaker
Right. um And so. So, yeah. So these these symptoms of depression ah will surface and theyre there are some women, they don't even want to leave the house.
00:33:42
Speaker
Right. They can't because depression is real. Right. So they can't even bring themselves to care for themselves, let alone a child. Right. Right. And and so so to be able to to really help a woman deal with that and get the help that she needs is extremely significant because not just the woman is suffering, but that baby is is going to be at risk as well.
00:34:09
Speaker
And so what was the second part of your question? Make sure how how does the disparity of care? Yes, disparity in care. Lead to the disparity between maternal mental health.
00:34:23
Speaker
the maternal mental health Yes. So, so there, that there is, it's, it's really crazy because given the, the, the lack of access, right. Cause we have disparities in access to mental health care in general for African Americans, right.
00:34:43
Speaker
um That just exacerbates this problem of maternal mental health. And so, Another thing that is really problematic is the stereotypes of Black women.
00:34:57
Speaker
So if you have a Black woman who she might be going through a divorce or separating from her partner and she has kids, well, she does not want to let it be known that she's suffering mental health issues because there are stereotypes of Black women as bad mothers, you know, out there.
00:35:21
Speaker
And there is research on this, I'm telling you. And so, so women, some of them will not go and get the professional help that they need. Right? You see what I'm saying? For fear of being branded where you could possibly lose your kids. Is that, is that kind of the connection? Yeah. Of losing kids, you no So so it's just so in it's it's just wild, like the the kinds of complications, right? That end up happening.
00:35:49
Speaker
And then if there's not, you know, concordant care, because sometimes a person can get ah mental health care provider, but if that person doesn't have cultural humility, or they really don't understand culturally, ah this person, the the mental health care provider,
00:36:09
Speaker
can actually ah sometimes even do hard, right? Because they're not understanding kind of these cultural things that are important.
00:36:20
Speaker
so So there are just so many, there are so many layers to this issue, right? So many layers. Yeah, yeah. And sometimes have there is a mental health, mental health care provider.
00:36:32
Speaker
We have partnered in writing an article together on maternal mental health and that and the church, because we really want to help churches to really help address the stigma that's associated with mental health within African-American and even other minoritized communities, but also to to help these churches to to have the resources and take advantage of the resources in the community so that people can be helped through these issues.
00:37:07
Speaker
Okay, Dr. Wilson, can you tell me about the Momnibus Act? First of all, did I say that right? And second of all, what is
Significant Legislation and Collaboration for Health Equity
00:37:14
Speaker
it? that And yes, you did. Yes, you did.
00:37:19
Speaker
It is such a significant piece of legislation, right? The Montnibus Act is a set of bills that set aside money, so investment that targets maternal mortality and disparities, right?
00:37:34
Speaker
So, for example, there is funding for community organizations to improve maternal health for veterans um and and for incarcerated mothers. like I mean, this set of bills is so powerful.
00:37:53
Speaker
And I'm going to tell you, though, given the current kind of
00:37:59
Speaker
policy environment that we are in with so many rollbacks, my concern is that bills like the Momnibus Act and the Pregnant Workers Fairness Act. Now, that's another one that we don't really talk about that much.
00:38:17
Speaker
And this act actually has has to do with accommodations on on a job to help a woman do her job or a person, a birthing person do their job. Right.
00:38:27
Speaker
So if you have limitations due due to pregnancy or childbirth related medical conditions, this act allows you to do telework, you can remotely, extra bathroom breaks and water breaks. And I know this sounds and it sounds like, well, of course, of course, people should be able to have it.
00:38:47
Speaker
But we would be surprised at how many jobs force for some women. This does not exist. And and and that's why the the fight for the pregnancy worker's fairness actually happened, right?
00:39:01
Speaker
Because women were really having problems trying to get a lighter duty of work and in the leave, leave for childbirth, just the the the regular leave. But if a woman has these extended complications related to pregnancy, these kinds legislation, I tell you, very important. The Mamas First Act is another one.
00:39:23
Speaker
Because that's where we have an amendment to the Social Security Act to allow doulas and midwives to be reimbursed by Medicaid, right? so so so So our policy environment is so important. And I really just hope that your listeners, folks will get out there, learn about these policies and and learn about them in your particular context, right? In your state situation.
00:39:49
Speaker
And to see see if your state is able to to still support this kind of of of legislation because is so it's needed. it We need it. And we don't quite know if if it's being supported at this time.
00:40:06
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. Wow. So, Dr. Wilson, you talk about some serious stuff, some important stuff, but some stuff that people would deem as controversial. Not us, because...
00:40:18
Speaker
They not like us, but, but, that but you always get pushback when you talk about equality and equity for marginalized groups.
00:40:30
Speaker
What are some of the pushbacks that you've received from your work? Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because
00:40:44
Speaker
I, History is so important to me. And with us being now in an environment where even history is politicized is absolutely heartbreaking.
00:41:02
Speaker
It's so heartbreaking because because history provides us with the resources, the cognitive resources, when we know someone else's story, when we now know another group's story,
00:41:18
Speaker
that gives us resources to to have the kind of empathy that is needed, right? to two to To come in solid, to work in solidarity, to to help us be sanctuary for one another. These kinds of things, that's what's so important. so So for me, I really do lament the fact that we are now in an environment where where history is seen as something that is deemed to be dangerous if it if it's not in a certain package, right? right
00:41:54
Speaker
And that is is where I just say, God help us all. God help us all. Yeah, because because that is history is a powerful thing and it's such a resource.
00:42:06
Speaker
It's such a resource. that we need. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because like I said, you learn from the past and you live for the future. That's my slogan. I stole it from somebody. I don't remember which scholar I stole it from, but I stole it. That's not a Bruce original, y'all. but But I'm rolling with him.
00:42:22
Speaker
Going to get it tattooed on my on my chest. I love it. That's great. That's great. So we've talked about the disparities, acts that can be done, and you made a point to say, people find out what's going on in your state.
00:42:39
Speaker
My goal of doing this interview is always open people's minds to stuff that they didn't even know or think about. Like I said at the top, historian didn't dawn on me that of course, hospitals would also be segregated.
00:42:55
Speaker
But then it comes to a point where you learn this information. And then it's, what are you going to do about it? So we said, you said not too long ago, find out what's going on in your state. But how can people get involved and start pushing for the legislation that is needed so that health care is equitable across the board?
00:43:19
Speaker
Right, right. So definitely, always always talk about awareness first and foremost, right? But collaboration, right? We really need to collaborate.
00:43:30
Speaker
We need to be aware awareness. who's Who's in our community and what they doing, right? Because we we have so many grassroots organizations that are actually working for, working toward birth equity, right? So that so that people can, all birthing people can have access to the kind of care that is needed for, for not just, you know, prenatal care, but the postpartum care. Right. yeah know So, so there are these, there are these grassroots organizations within our communities that are doing the work.
00:44:08
Speaker
We have Black Mamas Matters Alliance. They are, Ooh, they are one of my favorites because they do these, they do these wonderful conferences every year. and even i go, I like to go because I always learn something. Just like you said, we always learn something. And so I am loving it because they are bringing together, they work they work according to my philosophy, right? Like I have a philosophy of we we need to bring together all the different sectors in our society, in our community. So you get folk from healthcare, care you get the church, you get the academy, you get everybody.
00:44:43
Speaker
coming together and and literally strategizing of how do how do we address these problems. And so one of the things I did, i had a Black maternal health and Black church forum, and we we came together with, we had nurses, physicians, so we had gynecologists, we had public health professionals, we had midwives, doulas. I mean, we would try to get everybody at the table, pastors, everybody.
00:45:09
Speaker
And when I tell you, when we came together and I told everybody, I was like, this is a strategy session because lives are hanging in the balance. So it's not time for like having a little conference. No, no, we need to come together, strategize about how do we collaborate, right?
00:45:26
Speaker
Because we all are we're all doing a part of caring, the care work that that it takes place in our communities. The doctors are doing it on their end, the midwives and the doulas are doing on their end, the pastor's doing on it on their But how do we come together and collaborate You know, get to know, okay, just what are you doing now?
00:45:45
Speaker
And can I help you do what you do and really try to address these needs? They call it this kind of, this beautiful kind of caring for the whole person. How do we have this this layered approach to care?
00:46:02
Speaker
You know, by working together and coming together and and finding out what each other doing. Instead of, is because I know sometimes Church folk might be a little reticent about the folk in the community, different organizations in the community, different organizations might be reticent when it comes to the church. Like, don't know about them folks.
00:46:21
Speaker
But you know what? If we can come together and just find out, yeah, what do you actually do rather than all of the... All of the ideas we have about one another, right? You know, have a colleague who talks about to actually engage others in a serious manner is to discover how often we are mistaken about them.
00:46:43
Speaker
Yep. Right? Yeah. And so it so if we, because it's because it's very easy to hold on to its stereotypes and caricatures rather than really come together and try to say, okay, okay.
00:46:54
Speaker
What do you do? And how do you do what you do? And how how can we line up with what what we each do to literally care for the community and people who really need help?
00:47:07
Speaker
i I love that. That is beautiful. Ladies and gentlemen, that Dr. Wilson. Dr. Wilson, I want to thank you so much for coming on the show. and talking about something that is extremely important, something that a lot of people just aren't aware of.
00:47:22
Speaker
Everybody talks about, we're going have a baby, but they don't understand what goes along with it. And I think that they've learned that, hey, not just what happens to you, but also what happens to the other lady that's in the next delivery room, right?
00:47:38
Speaker
So I want to thank you so much for coming on the show. I know my audience definitely enjoyed this in-depth and deep conversation. ah Thank you so much for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure and enjoy.
00:47:50
Speaker
It was my pleasure as well. Thank you. As we wrap up this enlightening conversation, I want to extend my deepest gratitude to Dr. Wilson for sharing her profound insights and experiences with us today.
00:48:01
Speaker
We've journeyed through her remarkable career, exploring the intersection of bioethics, theology, and gender, dug into critical issues of health disparities and the legacy of care within the black community.
00:48:13
Speaker
Dr. Wilson's work, particularly her book, The Women is Bioethics, challenges us to rethink justice and equity, urging us to prioritize the needs of most vulnerable among us for the common good.
00:48:25
Speaker
Her passion for advocating for health equity and her dedication to uplift marginalized voices reminds us of the power of collaboration and community. As Dr. Wilson emphasized, it's not just about awareness, but about taking action, engaging with grassroots organizations, supporting critical legislation and fostering solidarity ah across all sectors of society.
00:48:48
Speaker
I want to give a heartfelt thank you to Dr. Wilson for her invaluable contributions, for inspiring us to be the sanctuary for one another. To our audience, I hope this conversation has opened your minds and your hearts to pressing issues we face and the steps that we could take to create a more equitable future.
00:49:07
Speaker
Remember, the journey doesn't end here. Let's continue to learn, engage and make a difference. I want to thank you for watching. I want to thank you for listening. And until next time, as always, I'll holler.
00:49:25
Speaker
was a hell of a show. Thank you for rocking with us here on Unsolicited Perspectives with Bruce Anthony. Now, before you go, don't forget to follow, subscribe, like, comment, and share our podcast wherever you're listening or watching it to it. Pass it along to your friends. If you enjoy it, that means the people that you rock will willing enjoy it also. So share the wealth, share the knowledge, share the noise.
00:49:48
Speaker
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00:50:02
Speaker
After Hours Uncensored and Talking Straight-ish. After Hours Uncensored is another show with my sister. And once again, the key word there is uncensored. Those are exclusively on our Patreon page. Jump onto to our website unsolicitedperspective.com. dot com for all things that's where you can get all of our audio video our blogs and even buy our merch and if you really feel generous and want to help us out you can donate on our donations page donations go strictly to improving our software and hardware so we can keep giving you guys good content that you can
00:50:34
Speaker
clearly listened to and that you can clearly see. So any donation would be appreciated. Most importantly, I want to say thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening and watching and supporting us. And I'll catch you next time.
00:50:48
Speaker
Audi 5000. Peace.