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Episode 25: Actual Play with Dan Waszkiewicz
51 Plays7 months ago
Host Alan Bahr is joined by guest Dan Waszkiewicz, the GM of a Delta Green actual play: The Redacted Reports.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:10
Speaker
I'm Alan Barr, and this is Radio Free RPG. Hello, I'm Alan Barr, and welcome to Radio Free RPG.
00:00:31
Speaker
Today, I'm joined by my guest and friend, Dan Wozzecker-Wergeneren, whose last name I can never pronounce because it is so Polish that it is functionally a foreign language. Well, it is. It's Dan Vashkiewicz. Go ahead. You can try. Vashkiewicz. Close. We'll take it. That makes it sound a little Russian when I say it that way, probably. I should be yelling at Rocky and Bullwinkle, but we're close enough.
00:01:01
Speaker
Yes, we're looking for moose and squirrel. Yes. My wife always owns what I'm talking about you because I go, Dan was a whatever. Dan wasn't going to work here anyway. Dan W's. I feel like the Swedish chef. So Dan, thanks for coming on Radio Free RPG. Thanks for having me on.
Dan's Game Industry Experience
00:01:23
Speaker
For folks who don't know you, can you tell us a little bit about your history in the game industry and what you've done, where they might be familiar with your work?
00:01:29
Speaker
So I have written for the 7C second edition line. I've got my name in quite a few books over there. I've written for some of the tiny D6 stuff that's out there. And right now I am the lead writer and game master handler of the redacted reports.
00:01:53
Speaker
And so the redacted report is a Delta green podcast, actual play, right?
The Redacted Reports Podcast
00:01:59
Speaker
Yes, that is correct. It's a Delta green actual play podcast. And we do have audio drama elements as well as it being edited. So we focus more toward the story and less cross table talk.
00:02:14
Speaker
Okay, so for those who don't know, Delta Green is a Lovecraftian modern military horror role-playing game I would define it as.
Understanding Delta Green
00:02:24
Speaker
It's Call of Cthulhu, but you can shoot back a little bit more.
00:02:28
Speaker
Yeah, I like to say it's more Call of Cthulhu meets X-Files because we've moved a little bit away from the military aspect of things. One of the characters is former military, but the rest of them are different walks of life.
00:02:50
Speaker
Sure. So for folks who might be familiar with other RPGs, maybe a little more Conspiracy X than military fiction. Very much so. I've taken quite a bit, curbed a lot of notes from Conspiracy X. There's some really neat stuff in there. That's one of my favorite RPGs. I feel the Unisystem is an unsung hero in the RPG design space that folks should be talking about more, even though it's been dormant for almost two decades.
00:03:20
Speaker
Even with games that are dormant, there are still so much good information that you can mine.
Navigating Actual Plays in RPGs
00:03:26
Speaker
Like one of the things that sticks out from Conspiracy X that I really liked is the character's ability to quarantine a town or a region. It's on their character sheet. Like, nope, we're going to put up the fences and bring out the lights and call in the army, kind of like those good ex files, contact type of sci fi thrillers. I love that.
00:03:50
Speaker
very WandaVision in a sense. Yeah, very much so. So now actual plays, both podcasting and streaming are, they can be complex in terms of how they intersect with the industry. And so feel free to correct me as I express my views here because I'm coming from the side of a publisher and creator of tabletop gaming material.
00:04:16
Speaker
and you are coming from the other side. But for me at times, it can feel like actual play and streaming is taking my creative work and representing it without my consent to make money, right? Now, and that's not always fair because there's a lot of transformative effort that goes into that and I'm awake, right? But it can be complex because you are taking someone else's work.
00:04:42
Speaker
and sort of re, not reusing it, you're using it in the way that it's intended, but for a bigger audience than maybe it was intended, right?
00:04:51
Speaker
So as both a creative and a person who's a creative on the actual play side of things, have you ever felt that push and pull? Has that ever sort of been a point of friction for you? It's not so much a point of friction, but it is something that we keep aware of. So we have worked with
00:05:13
Speaker
the Ivy's, the folks that own Arc Dream Publishing. They are both Shane and I apologize, I can't remember his wife's name right off the top of my head because she handles everything. Oh, man, I can't recall her name and I feel horrible about it. Rachel Ivy. Okay.
00:05:34
Speaker
sorry, and they have sent out a Bible and provide us with what we could use, what we can change, what we can't change, and we stay within those limits. They're aware of us. We've had some brief conversations, nothing major, and they haven't said anything bad about it. We do make sure they're not. You're not sponsored per se, but you have sort of a tacit blessing, we could call it.
00:06:02
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. We do call out to them in the credits and try to push business to them to show, even though our Delta Green world is a little bit different than their Delta Green world. Which is true in the time an RPG hits the table, right?
00:06:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's the nature of the beast.
Credit and Respect in Creative Work
00:06:23
Speaker
If by chance that they had said, you know, no more podcasting or you can't, you know, you can't make any money off of it, then yeah, we would certainly abide by that, maybe move to something different. Or if there was a say licensing fee, we would probably look into that.
00:06:43
Speaker
Right. And I'm not to say, I'm not saying that actual play and streaming is stealing material, but, you know, as a creative who writes these games at times, I am, I feel like I'm presenting my material to be consumed by the table in a more intimate setting. And if I were to present it for actual players streaming, I would probably make different design choices from the get-go, right? And so to me, it feels transformative in a way that alters the intent of my art, right?
00:07:13
Speaker
Then the question then is, when does it stop being your own player? It's complex, right? Yeah, it is complex. Yes. And I'm not saying that it's not your art, but then once it leaves your hands. Whose art is it, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so it's an interesting balance. And it's one I've struggled with, especially in the wake of the advent of this generative AI movement.
00:07:36
Speaker
which is a lot more blatant, but in a sense, I do feel like they at times can share similarities, especially when it comes to not crediting the people whose work they're transforming upon, right? Absolutely. If you pull work, even if you pull inspiration from somebody in our sphere with the actual play, credit them, you know, mention them, you know, drive people to their websites. Something I learned
00:08:02
Speaker
early on from folks that have publishing businesses that are involved in gaming and involved in our industries, pay your artists, right? And sometimes the pay is not large because you don't have a lot to pay, but pay them. And granted, yes, you will die from exposure, but if all I have to give is money, if I don't have money and I'm only getting exposure, I can share that exposure with others. Right. Absolutely.
00:08:29
Speaker
You know, and I, I've never said no to somebody who wanted to use my game in an actual play or a live stream, right? I've just asked to be credited and toss a link back to my web store or something. Um, because I don't feel like I have the place to say, no, you can't represent this artwork, right? Especially considering that you're not
00:08:47
Speaker
It's different to scan it in as a PDF and make it free for somebody because you are taking sales right out of my mouth. But you running the game is in providing the audience with access to the work to use on their own, right? It could be viewed as a widespread demo. In a sense, it's an interesting position. And that's one of the reasons I wanted to have you on is because it is a topic I've struggled with in the past is feeling like
00:09:12
Speaker
as a creative who struggles to make ends meet sometimes in the industry. I see streamers who aren't and they're not saying this is your guys's case per se, obviously, but it can feel a little unfair to go, well, you're using my work and making a really good living.
00:09:29
Speaker
What about me? Who's making the work you're using to make a really good living over here?
Impact of Actual Plays and OGL Debacle
00:09:34
Speaker
Right. I have thoughts on, this goes to the Wizards of the coast. This is primarily a 5D problem. Nobody's making a living out of my work. I'm pretty sure. And that's, that's iffy at any given week.
00:09:49
Speaker
Well, you're not doing so, so bad. But the the big issue with the new OGL debacle that happened with Wizards of the Coast, a lot of people were focused on third party producers. What they really didn't talk about were the actual place like Critical Role and Dimension 20, where these programs were making money hand over fist.
00:10:13
Speaker
And I know that Watsy wanted to, you know, Watsy and Hasbro wanted to be involved with that. And I think that they had a reason. I think it's a matter of renegotiation. I think publicly they they fumbled the bag, but certainly.
00:10:27
Speaker
But I think that was more of the crux than the third-party companies, in true honesty, because there's more money there. Streaming is a bigger business in that regard for sure. You're seeing streaming things getting turned into TV shows like Critical Role's Fox Machina and podcasts that make a pretty good amount of money, certainly more than some of the third-party publishers make making 5-View material.
00:10:50
Speaker
True. It's also working in reverse, though. So I'm going to spin it a little bit from not necessarily bagging on. No, no. This is a regular conversation here. So continue.
00:11:01
Speaker
Right now there is a movement, and I've seen a few of them, a very popular podcast, like fictional dramas being turned into role playing games. Old Gods of Appalachia podcast now has a role playing game. Welcome to Night Vale is getting one. Welcome to Night Vale. And I just saw the Magnus Archives is going to be producing a game soon. That's coming out from Monte Cook's group.
00:11:30
Speaker
Yeah, they've done two now and the night bill is renegade, I believe. Yeah. So our, sorry, the pups are in the background. Oh, you're fine.
00:11:41
Speaker
There's cross. There's intersectionality between all forms of
Managing Emotions and Creativity
00:11:46
Speaker
media. And I think overall it's positive. There needs to be conversation with where the source material is coming from. So credit the artists that you have and that you've gotten inspiration from. And if there is money to be had or licensing to be had, work to get those licenses there. Sure.
00:12:08
Speaker
Uh, that was a, that was a pretty hot question topic to come out of the gate with my apologies. I should have warned you. I had forgotten my easy softball question at the start. So we just went right into it. That's fair. Yeah. Make me, make me, uh, thank me back pedal, but you know what? It's it's not.
00:12:25
Speaker
One, I certainly don't believe that my feelings are necessarily in the right. They're more of just my feelings in that case. I can recognize that sometimes my feelings come from an emotional place rather than a logical place. There's a balance to responding from both places. The logic says this isn't really a problem regardless of how I feel about it.
00:12:48
Speaker
and sometimes how I feel about it shouldn't be the north star of my decision making. And to me, this is one of those situations. I think in this conversation is always key. If you as a publisher and writer finds that somebody's doing ill to your art, your product, bring it up to them.
00:13:12
Speaker
I believe in the good of most folks, right? And if somebody's got an issue or if you have an issue and you bring it up with someone and you come at it from a civil way being like, hey, can you maybe change this up or can you give me a shout out or if by chance that they're making bank and be like, can we talk about a licensing thing here? And if they're making enough, they should hopefully be able to share.
00:13:40
Speaker
And now it's one thing to say I'm using your rule setting and creating my own setting as well, right? Like there, again, there's a different level of transformative experience on top of that. So for people listening to this who might do actual plays with any of my rule sets, I don't have a problem with you. I love you dearly. Just link back to the web store for gallon night games and I'm happy. That's all I want.
00:13:59
Speaker
So don't think I'm ragging on anybody or saying, stop doing this. I am just bringing up a point of emotional friction that I have experienced as a creative and talking about it with somebody on the other side of that bridge, as it were.
00:14:14
Speaker
When you encounter something that kind of ruffles your feathers, is it something that you just keep internalized or do you vent out to- In general? In general, yeah. That's an interesting question. For folks who aren't aware, I suffer from bipolar disorder, which means I have manic and depressive episodes
00:14:40
Speaker
And at times my emotional responses are based on hormonal imbalances rather than what I would call valid or healthy emotional positions.
00:14:54
Speaker
And as such, I have learned to, whenever I have an emotional response, take a step back and give it some space before I assess whether this is sort of that, I don't want to say misguided, but miscast response, where it's coming from a place of imbalance versus coming from a place of actual harm or intent or frustration, right?
00:15:18
Speaker
And usually I'll express it to my wife who is very good at sort of helping me. She's very good at knowing when I'm in those positions and helping me kind of walk me to a logical conclusion.
00:15:29
Speaker
but I pride myself on my emotional self-awareness as a person, part of how I've learned through therapy to deal with my bipolar disorder. And so as such, I tend to, I wanna say internalize them, but I tend to hold them in reserve until I'm confident that I'm operating from a place that I feel is both defensible as well as honest. Yeah, okay.
00:15:57
Speaker
Cool. I worry about my friends. I see a lot of folks keep things bottled up and bubble over. There are times I have been frustrated and I've kept it bottled up because I run a public business and I can't always vent every frustration I have online. Oh, absolutely. Venting online is just dangerous anyway.
00:16:19
Speaker
Absolutely. This is actually one of the first times I've had this particular topic of conversation in a place where other people will be able to hear it. Congratulations. This is the first time this has come up. You put me back on my heels, I push back just a little bit more. Internet, don't pillory me, please. No. Alan is fantastic. Alan is willing to listen and talk to people. As evidenced by the previous 15 minutes of this podcast. Yeah, absolutely.
00:16:49
Speaker
So Dan, you've worked on a few role playing games throughout your time.
Lovecraftian Horror and Personal Connection
00:16:54
Speaker
You have a particular draw to Lovecraftian horror from what you've told me in the past. Yes, I do. What about that particular genre makes you drawn to it? Why do you feel as a storyteller?
00:17:05
Speaker
that you are capable of both writing it as well as presenting it to a wider audience because there's something I tell all creatives. To be a creative and to put a creative work out for public consumption, there is, I think, subconsciously enough ego inside that decision to say, my work is worthy of consumption, right? Yes. It takes some level of confidence in the quality of your work to push it out there, even if you don't feel like you have that confidence.
00:17:31
Speaker
The confidence to click post on that piece of art requires that, right? And so what about this genre sort of inspires that confidence in you?
00:17:41
Speaker
So I suffer from depression. I suffer from irrational senses of dread and waves of dread. That's how my depression manifests. And so by turning that into my storytelling, it's something I'm familiar with.
00:18:01
Speaker
and somehow project that into my tales and that we help craft, whether it's through the podcast or through general horror role-playing games, which I absolutely love.
00:18:16
Speaker
The imposter syndrome that goes along with being creative is also there. It's like, oh, am I that good? But I've had enough people tell me that it's good that they want to listen and play at my table and read my writing that
00:18:34
Speaker
It kind of stands me up a little bit. Well, as somebody who's published your writing, I can vouch for the quality of it. Thank you. But additionally, I will also say that it is the only actual play podcast I listen to. Why? Thank you.
00:18:49
Speaker
That's some nice criticism there. It's a nice critique. Thank you. I don't know if I'd call it criticism so much as feedback, but it's the only podcast I listen to because it makes me feel better about myself as a creative because I know I can do better. That's what I was trying to say. There's your criticism. Oh, okay.
00:19:07
Speaker
The podcast is excellent, and there's a lot to learn about being a good GM and storyteller from the way Dan presents information and guides his players.
Narrative Tension in RPGs
00:19:18
Speaker
Now, because it's edited and sort of post-produced, it's not live, what do you find are the challenges in maintaining that feel of an RPG, whereas you're not necessarily
00:19:33
Speaker
There's a difference between sitting down with some friends and concocting a story that you're all taking turns sharing, but you have to still maintain the semblance of dice being involved. And it can be easy to lose that through the post production process. Right. How do you maintain that? That's true. But if you think about, you know, a lot of the narrative based games that are not tactically based, you know, those games, there are often sessions where you don't roll dice.
00:20:00
Speaker
So it's not out of sorts for us, you know, as the podcast to not focus on the dice. I want the dice mechanics to be seasoning and not the main ingredient. Right. And I try to make sure that we get some kind of dice roll in there, you know, whether it's the somebody seeking out more information or, you know, it's not combat every session because combat against algebra is rarely goes well.
00:20:32
Speaker
Interesting. So, you know, do you feel like minimizing the dice in that way to treat them as more seasoning than the core ingredient sort of disenfranchises the core element of the game part of role playing game? Not really, because I think depending. So it depends on the game. Right. Absolutely. Depends on the game. Depends on the setting in an instance where
00:20:57
Speaker
you're you're talking, you're building horror, you're building tension. Dice can break that. And I don't want to break that, you know, break that that fine film to where it spills over and takes people out of the element. But, you know, having the the core mechanics still still there for people to remember, you know, sure, it's it's it's built into the foundation, but I don't think it it it takes away or disenfranchises the idea of it being OK.
00:21:26
Speaker
Interesting. And I'm certainly not saying it does, but I'm curious in the, in the element because to me, oftentimes I need dice for it to feel like an RPG or it stops being that to me. And so do you feel the same with, uh, with card based games for conflict mechanic for role-playing games? Yeah.
00:21:49
Speaker
No, because there's a randomization effect still, right? And that's guiding the story. To me, it's the minimizing of that randomization effect that takes away the game element for me. So I struggle with games that are like, for example, token base, like the Marvel token RPG, or I adore Henshin, the RPG from Cave of Monsters, but it's Diceless. And at times I can struggle with that because as a GM, I do rely on sort of the random prompt that DICE might provide me when I'm stuck in trying to propel a story forward.
00:22:20
Speaker
Certainly. And that's what they're there for. And you know what? That's something that I keep there as well. In the Delta Green universe, because it is a, it's called a Cthulhu adjacent. So you have sanity roles and utilizing, you know, the sanity roles and, you know, horror and unnatural roles that can help propel a story, whether it's their failure or their success. So using those, I mean, that's kind of why they're there.
00:22:51
Speaker
So let's let's talk a little bit about this idea of presenting a story with characters that people are playing and why you think the audience buys into it. RPGs are a very different medium than TV, but an actual play is sort of presenting an RPG in an audio book or television serial format. And the audiences get attached to characters in the same way they might with the TV character. Right. Yes. What?
00:23:20
Speaker
What do you feel makes RPGs different in that medium from those formats? And how do you remember to highlight that?
Audio Storytelling in Podcasts
00:23:29
Speaker
So this this goes into because we're my podcast is an audio only podcast, not video. Right. And this goes into the idea of music and musicians dying as well. And hang on. We're going to we're going to get to that in a moment. There is a level of intimacy when someone puts in earbuds and there's voices being either sung or spoken into your your head directly.
00:23:57
Speaker
having that, you know, near neural connection to these people are is I think that is key is because there's a closeness and an intimacy there. Now, you do need to have characters that are believable and, you know, approachable. I'm trying to think of the word and I'm having a brain a brain moment.
00:24:23
Speaker
Where you the characters that are accessible, accessible. Yeah. And, you know, you want the people and the listeners to to buy into their success and their failures. So, you know, make sure that they have a not even necessarily a good backstory, but something that they could dig into, something that they could buy into and also having the players
00:24:50
Speaker
you know, provide that level of believing in their characters and buying into the story. Sure. So shifting gears from the podcast actual play conversation a bit. Okay. Um, let's move into just the general concept of storytelling. So you are responsible alongside my friend, John, who you also know. And
00:25:15
Speaker
coarsing me into the fandom of pro wrestling. Yes. It's a sort of Stockholm syndrome relationship at this point, I believe. It brings me so much joy. My heart, my heart swells when I hear you talk about wrestling. Before this podcast went live, we were just video chatting about wrestling that was going to occur this weekend.
00:25:38
Speaker
It's, I'm wearing a wrestling shirt and I think I have for every podcast I've recorded here because I mostly just wear wrestling shirts now. That that's a symptom. Yeah. Yeah. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome, brother. I have the disease. Um, and the only cure is more wrestling, more wrestling. So, uh, let's talk about that. So I'm a big proponent of learning storytelling through other mediums than the one you're telling stories in.
Storytelling Lessons from Wrestling
00:26:03
Speaker
So if you are telling stories primarily through RPGs, you should try to learn how to tell stories from other mediums like movies, books, comics, et cetera, because I believe that makes you a better storyteller. And one of the things that drew me to pro wrestling when you started showing it to me was the storytelling inherent in it, but also how they use violence as a form of communication and storytelling. Now, in the
00:26:32
Speaker
Lovecraftian horror genre. Violence is often a futile effort. It is arguably the least likely way to resolve any potential conflict because usually what you are trying to kill either cannot be killed or killing it won't stop it.
00:26:48
Speaker
but it should be used as a culmination, as an exclamation point. So it's the frantic meaning of getting away. Because you're futile in the eyes of these arcane Eldritch overlords, but you're going to try, you're going to scratch, you're going to claw just enough to get away or to stall them so that your friends could make it.
00:27:15
Speaker
or maybe cause an explosion to shut down the entire thing for a short period of time for a hundred years or so for it to creep back up and the future me needs to deal with that. So aside from wrestling, what other storytelling genres outside of RPGs do you feel have influenced your ability to tell RPG stories?
00:27:36
Speaker
outside of pro wrestling. I was going to say pro wrestling obviously because there's some amazing long-term storytelling. I've fairly recently. And this could become a pro wrestling podcast. And well, I would absolutely start one of those. I don't think I should. No, I'm with you on that. I gotcha. I've been doing a lot of reading of Shakespearean plays. Well, not Shakespearean plays, but Shakespeare's plays as best I can. What's your favorite? The Tempest.
00:28:05
Speaker
Ooh, that is also my favorite. I heart Prospero. Yes, Prospero, Caliban. It's so good. To think about it being a fantasy sci-fi novel or say a fantasy sci-fi how many hundreds of years ago and we've had the same kind of stories and genre going until today. It's stuck around.
00:28:29
Speaker
Absolutely. The Tempest is my absolute favorite Arthurian plate to the point where I was Prospero when I was in college in the local Shakespearean company. Okay, I could see that. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, it's so good. I found
00:28:45
Speaker
One thing that I take from that, because now I'm focusing on making sure that my NPCs are, you know, NPCs are solid. I've always had good NPCs in all of my tales, but I want to I want to add more and adding in a touch of tragedy is always a nice, nice tidbit.
00:29:10
Speaker
Sure. That means it's definitely something you can learn from Shakespearean in general. So have you ever thought about adapting the Tempest to an RPG?
Dan's Introduction to RPGs
00:29:24
Speaker
So I tried to a long time, long time past in high school, but that was younger Dan. It could be something to do in the future. Sure.
00:29:37
Speaker
I, uh, well, if you ever tackle that, let me know. I'd be interested to see what that would look like. Okay. Yeah, we could, uh, probably a little more lovecrafting horror than I would make it, but, uh, such as the way. Yes. As is, uh, as is the way.
00:29:54
Speaker
So what drew you to RPGs originally? Because it's obvious, you know, between the effort you put into the actual play as well as the effort you put into crafting material for publication for role-playing games, it's clearly a medium you're very passionate and feel very strongly about. So, you know, what made it an art form that you sort of responded to that way?
00:30:21
Speaker
In 1992, I was a young boy, a young lad, and I had received a comic book. And on the back of the comic book was an ad for Dungeons and Dragons. And it was an ad for the black box. And it had a picture of the Jeff Easley angry red dragon chasing down a knight. Now,
00:30:51
Speaker
My family, my brother, who's 11 years older than I am, always was into wizards and whatnot. And we had the artwork in a room because we shared a room. We lived in a very small room, a very small house. And there was a painting, two Frank Frazetta paintings on the wall near my bed. And I would look at those every night and just dream about the world of the death dealer before I even knew who the death dealer was.
00:31:14
Speaker
The same thing happened when I looked at the comic book and I saw that image of the box set of the Dungeons and Dragons Dragon. And I asked for it for a birthday gift and it was given to me on April 30th of 1992.
00:31:30
Speaker
And so I've just passed 30 years of role playing. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of it drives me. It makes me a little mad as in crazy that some of the people that I game with today have been gaming for less than a decade, less than five years, but have played so much in that time. But I talk about games that have occurred in the past that they have no clue about just simply because
00:32:00
Speaker
they don't have the experience. A lot of gaming history, especially with the advent of Kickstarter and the sort of flood of production as the barriers to production have gone down with the advent of POD and PDF.
00:32:14
Speaker
Um, the entry level is much lower than it used to be has sort of obscured the history of role playing because there's, I don't want to say there's was less content back then because there was, there was less, uh, permanent content because you didn't have digital things that were archived forever. You know, if somebody made a 500 copy fan scene, it might get handed out of them, disappear forever. If everybody eventually threw it away or something. Um, accessibility is a big deal. Exactly.
00:32:43
Speaker
So what are some of these games from the past that you feel folks should visit or know about or be experienced with? A lot of them have been remade. The one that jumps out at me is Twilight 2000.
Classic RPG Recommendations
00:33:00
Speaker
And I'd like the new Twilight 2000 game that Free League put out. Actually, I love everything that Free League puts out. Their production quality is superb. But the original, well,
00:33:12
Speaker
So the original base, just the art and the concept and the idea snagged me. Right now, it's a little too close to home with what's going on in Ukraine, not the Ukraine, my apologies. So that kind of tampers it. But I think
00:33:30
Speaker
games like Mage or Ars Magica is one that I think every fantasy gamer should have a look at a little bit. And then also along those lines, Tales from the Floating Vagabonds for simple, silly, you know, one shots. It's, you know, a bar that's in space and any kind of characters can walk through the door. So it's not meant to be slowly or played long term.
00:34:01
Speaker
Right. I think that's I think those are great choices. So, you know, we're coming up near the end of the time here. This has been a really enlightening conversation. I want to thank you for making the time to come on and talk to me about all of this. Anytime, man. This is this is fun. It is fun. Which is why I do it. So I'm going to ask you the three questions I ask everybody at the end. So the first question is, what are the three most influential RPGs on your approach to gaming, be it design, actual play or what?
00:34:31
Speaker
So Call of Cthulhu influenced me the most. You know, I played that. We started off as a one shot early on and I was like, oh, the world is not just Dungeons and Dragons. There's other neat stuff out there.
00:34:49
Speaker
After that, Houses of the Blooded for me was very transformative because it changed narrative storytelling for me and narrative role-playing games. The idea that a player can hand another player
00:35:04
Speaker
cool points, style points in that game. And the style points could then be used to say what's true in the world is that that completely reshaped, you know, where I was at. And not to sound like, you know, a young punk rock edge lord, but Vampire the Masquerade was also supremely influential to me. I don't think that necessarily makes you a punk rock edge lord. I would argue that RPG was very influential on me as well.
00:35:32
Speaker
Other people probably wouldn't classify me as a punk rock-edge lord by any sense of the imagination. No, but it approached things from a different aspect. And again, it's a horror game. When done right, it's got some of the best personal horror you can imagine.
00:35:50
Speaker
Right. Sometimes an RPG can do something that's already been done, but they do it in such a way or do it so well that it feels fresh and new and becomes a revelation, even if the product itself, the ideas aren't necessarily new. Right. And I think that's an important thing to learn and recognize because there are a lot of RPGs that do things that aren't new, but what they have done
00:36:16
Speaker
has moved these elements into a more obvious or acceptable accessible space for the consumer to experience. And that feels transformative and innovative.
00:36:33
Speaker
Absolutely. And it's making changes to, or not even necessarily making changes, but you know, growing, progressing is key. Cause if we don't grow and progress, we die, right? Absolutely. That's what I hear. Yeah. So at least we're still keeping alive though, right? Yeah. Depends on the day.
00:36:59
Speaker
So the other question I always ask is, what is one question you've always wanted to be asked in an interview that nobody's ever asked you? And then I am going to force you to answer it. When am I going to come back on again? Oh my God. That's an unfair question because now I'm on the spot and we're recording this. So, you know, what would I think be interesting is we should schedule a follow-up
00:37:25
Speaker
podcasts for season three because right now we're recording season two. It sounds good. To discuss a topic like violence as a form of communication because that is a topic both you and I have spent extensive time researching and learning about and studying and I think we could have a really great conversation about that. I like that idea. I also would put out there, if that topic does not stick, let's talk about long form storytelling. So we're just going to talk about wrestling. Oh yeah. That's what you're saying.
00:37:55
Speaker
Either way, it's happening. One of the key things that, especially with my podcast and my home players know, and even the folks that have been able to view my writing and other games, I go for the very long story and I plant seeds and bring the seeds back up and try to tie everything together as best I can because a tiny little seed sprouts a mighty, mighty tree. Absolutely.
00:38:25
Speaker
So with the last question is, do you have any questions for me? Hmm. Where do you see yourself? Create not not what is your magnum opus, where do you see yourself when you're creating your magnum opus? In what like in terms of my timeline, life, career position like no physical physical location.
00:38:55
Speaker
Uh, in my office where I create all my games. Okay. Well, some people, I mean, I don't have some particular, well, no, because I can't make a game in the shower. I can only think about making a game in the shower that still thinking about it. I'm not bringing my laptop in there. It would go very badly. There's something that I learned early on. Um, if it's, if you write it down, it makes it real. But in truth is if you have those thoughts, those thoughts are what started, but as soon as you put it to paper, then it's real.
00:39:25
Speaker
I actually have just almost finished layout on one of the two games I will consider some of the best design I've ever done, I think. Can you say what they are? It's the second edition of Siege, Perilous, Myer-Thurian RPG. Okay. And it is a solo role-playing game. Which is something I haven't really delved into yet. Well, I will send you the preview PDF and you can tell me what you think. All right. But I have been working on it for about six years.
00:39:55
Speaker
So there's only one other game I've worked on longer. So is this a matter of better is the enemy of done or it's just, I've got ideas. It's a matter of, it's a deeply personal project and I'm not willing to compromise on it. Okay. As a publisher, and this came up in a recent recording as well, as a publisher, there's a balance between perfect is the enemy of done
00:40:19
Speaker
and understanding that you'll never be perfect. So sometimes done is the state of the product, right? Sometimes artistic vision has to give way to practical concerns. That is a bug slash feature depending on your viewpoint of commercial art. I make my living making games. I cannot make a living on games that are never released, right? True. So one way or another, the game's got to come out.
00:40:44
Speaker
So it is very rare that I will pump the break so hard that a game takes a long time for me to produce. You could argue my games never take long enough to produce, probably, frankly. No, but no, I think you're so the when you get focused and you start writing and because you put out fantastic stuff.
00:41:06
Speaker
You know, I haven't read anything that's that's that where I was like, what the hell is he doing? But no, it's, you know, when you get focused and you start pumping out words, it's amazing. You know, it's it's, you know, you are a writer, you are a writer, my friends, whether you whether you like the idea or not. Well, maybe we'll leave the argument about what makes a writer for a different day.
00:41:30
Speaker
I just came back from a literary writing conference and I have some thoughts on that now. Oh, oh yeah. Did one of the guys win something that was in your- Oh, yes. Our novella for Meccas and Monsters, Welcome to Paradise by Brian Young won the gold award for best novella from the local writing chapter for the league of Utah writers. Sweet. Congratulations. I went out there to support him at the award show and snap a picture.
00:41:56
Speaker
Yay. Yeah, and you probably went to talk with friends and whatnot anyway. They had me present some panels and paid my way, so it worked out. Sweet. Sounds like a good time. It was, but let's have a good time because it was right after Gen Con, so I'm only home for the first time in about two and a half weeks. Get the puppy love. A lot of suitcase living. Yeah, but now you're home with the pups. I am. Dan, if folks want to find you online and support you, where's the best places for them to do so?
00:42:25
Speaker
So you could find our podcast at the redactedreportspodcast.com. That's the best place to find where we're going to be producing stuff. You can also find the redacted reports on all of your favorite pod catchers. Look us up. We've got the nice little green triangle with yellow writing. I have that sticker on my water bottle.
00:42:48
Speaker
That's a fantastic sticker. It is. So folks, I want to issue a profound thanks to Dan for coming on and allowing me to spring both hard and easy questions on him and not bogging me down and talking about wrestling. I want to, but you know, we'll do it. We'll do it at some point. There's a, there's a, you know, a story about time travel. Well, maybe the bonus outtakes will be us just ranting about wrestling one day. Sounds good. So again, thanks for coming on. That is greatly appreciated.
00:43:18
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it. Love you, brother. Love you too. Folks, I'm Alan Barr and this has been Radio Free RPG.