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Episode 10: Surviving RPGs with Diogo Nogueira
89 Plays1 year ago
Host Alan Bahr is joined by Diogo Nogueira of Old Skull Publishing to discuss RPGs, Diogo's ups and downs in the industry, some of the tools and tricks of making RPGs, and what they've learned working together over the years.
https://oldskull-publishing.com
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:11
Speaker
I'm Alan Barr and this is Radio Free RPG. Hello, I'm Alan Barr and welcome to Radio Free RPG. Today I'm joined by my guest Diogo Nogera.
00:00:38
Speaker
Yeah. Got pretty close. I did not get it right, but I got close. It's hard. It's hard to use. Diogo is an RPG... Sorry. Diogo is an RPG artist, designer, writer, and publisher of a variety of stripes. I've worked with
Diogo's Work and Achievements
00:00:55
Speaker
him extensively in the past, and I'm absolutely thrilled he came on the show to talk with us today. Hello. How's everybody doing? I am Diogo, and... Sorry.
00:01:11
Speaker
Oh, okay. No, you're fine. You are Diogo. Diogo, tell us how we might know you in the RPGs. Well, I'm the person behind what is old-school publishing, which is basically a one-man show, which I write and I use it to do a lot of graphic design and illustration for my own stuff.
00:01:33
Speaker
But nowadays I like to work with other people and collaborate and I have this vision that multiple minds working on something can make something greater than one mind could. My work is always made better by the work of others.
00:01:49
Speaker
Nowadays, I try to work with other creatives that I like, and I make games more recently such as Cosmo Sowers, Primal Quest, The Trillage of Oher that came out through Ganonite Games originally.
00:02:06
Speaker
which is the data coming, screams among their servers and running out of time. And a lot of people still know me a lot because my first games that were really OSR centric, which are sharp swords and sensor spells and sword blades and cosmic spells. But some people know me because of the adventure I won an award for to its House of the Blood King for old school essentials.
00:02:36
Speaker
Yes, yes, you won an Emmy for that. A gold one, if I recall, right? For writing. Yeah, very exciting. Yeah, I was really surprised.
Old School Spirit in RPGs
00:02:45
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, good. Well deserved. It's an excellent adventure. So you often describe your games as having a old school spirit.
00:03:00
Speaker
What does that mean to you? What defines that particular phrase? Because you are one of the few people who uses it. I think you're the only one I've seen use it. Well, some people now call NSR, it's like a no, no school revolution, which is basically kind of what I do. It's capturing the spirits of old school play, but creating new rules, incorporating
00:03:26
Speaker
maybe new mechanics for more modern games. What I call being an old-school spirit is that kind of adventure of the spirit of the old games, not necessarily like a hero in order to save the world and be brave, and you're going to tell a story. Because nowadays, DD is very focused on being heroes,
00:03:51
Speaker
of telling epic stories and having a narrative like an epic narrative. Like you wouldn't see in a novel, in a movie, which is fine. But in the old days, it would be more like adventurous, not necessary heroes, and not there to do good. You might do good, but you might be there just for glory, for gold, for your own objectives, which is very reminiscent of the Pope literature that early inspired the game, like the appendix X.
00:04:21
Speaker
like Conan and Fort Farting Ray Mauser and more cock no Eric, they weren't necessarily heroes trying to do good. They're like pursuing their own agendas and sometimes, yeah, they would end up helping people, but it wasn't like the focus of the game.
00:04:40
Speaker
That's the kind of narratives and the kind of game is the game that's kind of unforgivable. Like your characters may matter whilst dying like in the first encounter if something goes bad or if you plan badly. They are not focused on balance. Like all the encounters, all the challenges you have in the game are not necessarily for you to face and overcome. Sometimes it's for you to face and quickly realize you can do with that and just get out of there.
00:05:10
Speaker
And I think games are more open, more like sandbox and they don't have specific objectives and gives you tools to improvise and let the players go off the rails, you know, to...
00:05:28
Speaker
do that
RPG Design Philosophy
00:05:29
Speaker
kind of open gaming that's challenging and games that doesn't have all the answers in the for players ready for them to to press a button you know it's not like you have like tons of skills and a challenge appears and just says oh i will use this power because this power is to solve this kind of problem it's for players to engage in the game and develop what old school games call player skill like they have to solve the the problems not through the rules but through the
00:05:58
Speaker
True play, they're in the game, they're the characters and they have ideas and they try that and the games have simple core rules that can interpret these ideas of them in a simple way that can help the game keep going without having the needs to consult the game for specific rules and exceptions. I think that's it for me.
00:06:26
Speaker
OK, I think that's a very yeah, I think it's very a good look at what you think makes them have that old school spirit. But with the rules, unlike some games that some might call OSR, you don't attempt to emulate the exact rules. You're just trying to get the feel of the old school style rules from the 70s and 80s in your game.
00:06:51
Speaker
you're not as concerned about the exact rules being replicated, right? Yes, especially because the last part I said, I want rules that lets you play without having to consult the game book. Even though
RPG Scene in Latin America
00:07:05
Speaker
I love D&D, BX, and old Swiss taintials, for me, the most simple and elegant version of D&D, but you still have to consult tables or stuff like that to
00:07:18
Speaker
to record something like each character each type of character has different XP requirements and different tables and different ways to use skills which is cool and fine it's a feature of those games and I like them for that reason but for sometimes my game is that I like to improvise a lot I want games that have a really set core mechanic and some type of mechanic that can do lots of things
00:07:42
Speaker
but without having me go through a book to consult exactly which everything of them do, you know? Since my first game, since Sharp Sworbs, I have this concept of vacation or concept that kind of functions like a fate aspect, you know? It's like a descriptive thing you yourself create for a character that lets you
00:08:05
Speaker
basically customize it in any way you want without having to have lists and lists of abilities and they have a simple way to function in the game and helps you and have a mechanic impact but they also have a narrative influence and that's something from newer games or what they call narrative games that always start
00:08:26
Speaker
does not have. And I like to incorporate that because it gives me my game more flexibility, gives my players more liberty, and allow me to almost trade anything on the spot. Like, ah, do you want to go somewhere else? And I said there would be like a mutant dragon with three heads on its tails. I can come up with stats and things to play it.
00:08:51
Speaker
quite easily without having to, you know, consult books and know the Shakespeare XP requirement of if I give this ability, how much XP I'd have to give more. So that's the stuff I can provide from newer games that makes
00:09:08
Speaker
It's kind of different from traditional War Star games, but I still have some of the elements of the traditional, like the mortality and like feel-watcher boots, not a lot of specific abilities, like you create character really quickly, you can make them even randomly if you want to. Some of the experiences that you have on War Star games you have on mine too, but with new things to help you keep playing more loosely, you know.
00:09:39
Speaker
more friendly. Okay. I think that's, I mean, I think that's a great explanation of that. Thank you very much. So you're based out of what now, if I recall correctly, the term a lot of folks from your area use is RPG L a. Am I, am I, is that the right? L a T a m. Okay. L a T a m.
00:10:08
Speaker
standing for Latin America. And so it's this little loose collective or supportive network of RPG creators and designers from the Southern hemisphere of the American Congress. Yeah, we have Mexico too, it's up there. And what, and yes, yes.
00:10:35
Speaker
Yes, I guess everything south of the United States rather than the southern hemisphere. So what is the, now I see a lot of posts and tweets and you all share each other's work really actively. And I think that's a really great supportive voice. And when we've talked in the past, you've expressed that RPGs locally have struggled to gain a foothold from local creators for you.
00:11:04
Speaker
that there's a lot of American RPGs or English speaking RPGs that come down.
00:11:11
Speaker
but that there are very few homegrown RPGs that have reached that level of market penetration area. We have a lot of independent publishers, a lot of independent authors here making really, really good work. I am a fan of quite a few of them. We are friends. Sometimes we play together. They have excellent games, but they are not, you know, you go to a convention here, they're playing Dungeons and Dragons and Shadowrun or
00:11:37
Speaker
you know, vampire and masquerade, Costco too. Very few people are actually playing, you know, independent games. But I mean, it's pretty much the way probably it is on conventions in the United States, but we still have like more independent games that are pretty popular. Like if you go to Gen Con, they have like huge rooms for dungeon coc classics and other games that are not really these brands games from corporations, you know. But here it's almost unheard of, you know.
00:12:12
Speaker
Sure. And part of that is there's not a lot of push from the Latin American RPG community into the United States or English speaking countries as well. Unfortunately, I don't see a lot of those wonderful RPGs being translated when they are. It's because the creator, like in your case, is bilingual and can do it themselves. Absolutely. Yeah. One of my goals would be one day
00:12:40
Speaker
What are some standouts? Standouts, here from Brazil, you say? Yeah, I think we're not syncing up quite right with the sound. I was going to ask, what are some of the standouts folks might be interested in down there in Latin American RPG spaces, specifically Brazil, where you're from, that they might want to look into? That haven't been translated yet?
00:13:14
Speaker
Yeah, or if they have been and maybe they don't know and they want to look at it. Well, from Brazil that has already been translated, we have really cool games by, for example, Ginnemi Gonjito has
00:13:31
Speaker
into the odds, like heck, called Into the Bronze, which is like a fantasy Mesopotamian kind of game. It's really cool, really well made. It has even like a hex kit for you to create settings for it. And there's quite a few adventures in his writing a new one. And they all look fantastic too, because he's like incredible graphic designer.
00:13:57
Speaker
We have a game from my friend Gustavo Tortagnone and Victor, which is called River Bands, which is really a fun game about fishing and matchcats.
00:14:12
Speaker
So it's very different from traditional games, but it's really interesting. You can make competitions and you can discover really weird fantasy things in this. It's really like a heartwarming game, so it's kind of interesting in seeing.
00:14:29
Speaker
this kind of content here, we have two from Brazil, we have We Are Monsters 2 from Lindsay that came out from So Mopet. Actually, So Mopet has had a Kickstarter for RPG and Intel Mounters. So they released like three games from people from Latin America. And they also published some other stuff from other authors here from Brazil. If you want to check them out,
00:14:59
Speaker
They do really good work and then printing and stuff. So it's a good place to get there. I would say here from Brazil, there's like an author that I really, really, really like. It's called George Valpazos. He's like a history professor, but he's really well articulated and he's really intelligent, you know. Sometimes he talks about game design and stuff and I kind of get lost because he
00:15:25
Speaker
You know, he's an academic, but his games are really, really, really good. And they do really interesting stuff. We have like a paranormal investigation RPG that decides in Brazil, you know. So all this in just synchroeses of Brazil, like characteristics, like the government and the corruption and the difficulties of the crime and stuff is all embedded in the game. So it's really interesting to see
00:15:54
Speaker
how he captures
00:15:57
Speaker
The things from Brazil, from our setting, our people and our customs and puts in the game, it makes it very unique. I really think it would be interesting for people from outside of Brazil to experience this and have a little glimpse of what it would be. Because, I mean, everyone from around the world, we have this idea of these games and how
00:16:24
Speaker
how this setting goes, because we watch American television, we watch American films, we watch American fiction. So it's like a common culture, but we all have different cultures and different ways people talk and dress and behave. And in RPGs, they're almost exclusively, almost generously
00:16:49
Speaker
the way we see in American culture. So I think that would be really cool to see, to show to other people.
00:17:00
Speaker
Uh, yeah
Zines and DIY Culture
00:17:01
Speaker
Yeah, I I have a friend too petal borders who made like a really cool uh western fantasy game, but but brazilian western which is completely different from uh traditional american western and then spaghetto western and things like that, you know, we had like the It's it's it's something else, you know, it'd be really cool to see uh this kind of stuff too in in
00:17:29
Speaker
in the United States or in Europe for people to check out.
00:17:35
Speaker
I had a dream. Yeah, that's fantastic. I had a dream of one day making a publisher and publishing these games in English. I had a plan from moving to Portugal and opening this publisher there. And I had already talked to some of those authors to publish their games in English. But maybe we can still do that even if I'm still here.
00:18:05
Speaker
Yeah, I think it would be fantastic to see some of that happen. I think there's a lot of potential there. So now one of the one of the things that you are very active in is the zine community. Yes.
00:18:28
Speaker
And this zine community is a very DIY, do it yourself style community. What appeals to you about making zines in that manner? Well, when I.
00:18:45
Speaker
started playing RPGs. I played what people normally play, you know, D&D, Vampire, Kavkutulu and this kind of stuff. And by the time Fourth Edition came out, I was just getting back playing RPGs after stopping because of college. And I played for a while and it wasn't my thing. And I started looking outside to see what people were doing. And I found the Lassar and then I found the CC RPG.
00:19:11
Speaker
And I found a community that was really like they didn't wait for the publishers to release stuff. They would just make their own stuff and publishing zines and send it to you, to your home. And they could send it in letters, you know. So I'm here from Brazil and I would get this stuff made from other people like me, other players from all around the world for like
00:19:36
Speaker
cheap, you know, because they could send this as letters. And I became fascinated of that, like with with a community of players that would make stuff for their game and share with one another.
00:19:47
Speaker
almost freely and started seeing other people doing that with other games or publishing games in this format of Xen. And they were so much more personal, so much more, I mean, creative and pushing the boundaries of the standard like homogeneous, like genre fantasy stuff that you see out there. So I found a lot of that and I
00:20:10
Speaker
I thought to myself, oh, I can do that. I can express myself. I can use my imagination to share with people how I see fantasy, how I see sword and sorcery, how I see these games. And I found it as a way to express myself and express my ideas and see what other people are doing instead of consuming this
00:20:35
Speaker
box off the corporate games that have all these things created to please and not to offend or not to something like that. I think the zine culture for me feels much more authentic than the big company games.
00:20:55
Speaker
that although are cool, I still really love them. I love a lot of stuff from Free League that some, you know, some people don't see more as that easy, but I still see that their stuff really great. And they're still doing, for me, some personal things like this, this, this kind of fantasy cartoon or projector releasing more recently isn't something you would see maybe from D&D. I don't know. I still like a lot of those stuff.
00:21:27
Speaker
Okay, I think that's a great way to look at it, getting the personal touch and view from the creator, sort of unfiltered, which can really help. Now, you've
Recognition and Collaborations
00:21:42
Speaker
worked with a lot of different companies to get your games into the English-speaking market. You've worked with me, you've worked with Exalted Funeral, you've done it yourself, you've done it through digital platforms like DriveThru RPG,
00:21:57
Speaker
And you've been, you've become well-regarded in that space. I mean, you wanted any for your adventure. So what was it like to get that recognition of the any after sort of working your way into this space?
00:22:19
Speaker
Well, as I said, it was really, really surprising. Even as I was nominated, it was something I never expected because I never, first of all, I never saw myself as someone that writes adventures. I have mainly written systems and I don't know, adventures seem kind of more difficult because you have to, like, it's a close experience. With a system, you kind of write a lot of tools and you have someone helping you.
00:22:48
Speaker
When they run the game, they jam, they do a lot of the half-war too. But when I wanted to venture, I was really surprised and really thankful for becoming into that, helping me.
00:23:04
Speaker
I always try to give back because I learned a lot from a lot of people. I learned a lot from you, I learned a lot from James. I learned a lot from Matt Finch. I learned a lot from, I don't know, a lot of people that talked to me. Since the beginning, I released my game and something incredible happened. People started sending me emails talking about my game and saying what they thought of it, how they like it, how they're using it.
00:23:33
Speaker
This kind of stuff always gives me ideas to do something next, you know? And I can really see a clear evolution of my game design work from Shrops Road until today. And although they don't seem like it, they're very well, very connected. They are like an evolution of the way I want to play games. And the recognition was really nice.
00:24:00
Speaker
Somehow, in the beginning, although I was accepted, I always felt kind of apart. But I always saw a lot of people working together and doing stuff together. And I didn't really work together with a lot of people. I was usually doing my stuff. I worked together with you, but we didn't do games together. Things like that.
00:24:22
Speaker
And after the end, I started having a lot of invites to do a lot of stuff. So that felt really great. That felt like I was finally part of something and working with people I admired a lot and then having an opportunity to have my name together with them, not working, contribute to their work.
00:24:46
Speaker
But at the same time, I think I got overwhelmed and I started saying yes to a lot of stuff. And because I didn't have this notion of how much this would consume me, because working alone is one thing, you know, you you know what you want and you make it. And when you work with others, it takes for me, it takes a lot more time than it would take for me to make this thing for myself, because there's a back and forth and they have a different vision. So
00:25:14
Speaker
and then i think i overworked myself and got a bit of a kind of a burnout and i'm starting to get back to it and then working myself up again and i have a lot of stuff that i produced during the pandemic i have like
00:25:32
Speaker
four or five games that are, have already been written, but it's the, like in slow process of getting art and getting editing and getting this stuff. So why do I'm not sure a lot of stuff right now? I've already produced quite a few stuff that is coming out as well, I guess. We'll see, we'll see a flood of works from Diogo soon. Hopefully. Yeah.
00:25:57
Speaker
Some of the process. Good. Well, it sounds like when you get some space, we need to do something together. So we should we should probably do that snowy hex hall we were talking about right before I completely fell in my driveway. You know, I love doing sword and sorcery in different genres, too. So I have sword and sorcery, sturgeon sorcery, star and sorcery. I have now stone and sorcery can do snow and sorcery.
00:26:27
Speaker
There we go. That sounds great. I've got a Greek themed sword and sandal sword and sorcery style game coming soon. So I'm really excited for it. And so Diogo, one thing you do almost every year, obviously in recent years with the pandemic and travel restrictions and things like that, you're unable to. But you come to Gen Con.
00:26:52
Speaker
And you are very active in the Goodman games, DCC, GM space, running a lot of dungeon crawl classes. Originally, I was like a lot, but when I started making my own games, I kind of divided and like running a few DCC and a few of my games. OK.
00:27:16
Speaker
I think that's I think that's fantastic. And it definitely gives you a chance to I mean, it's allowed us to hang out in person and, you know, share some meals and talk and spend time together. And I'm looking forward to doing so again this year when you're there.
00:27:32
Speaker
And I think it's great that you're able to make that trip and be part of this part of the community up here. Is there something like that down there that folks could participate in if I wanted to come down?
00:27:47
Speaker
Now keep in mind, unfortunately, I don't speak Portuguese. Uh, so I would need to hang out with you the whole time. So you make sure I don't end up getting, you know, my foot, my foot in my mouth and punched in the face or something. We have, uh, obviously it's not as, as brands as, as Jane Cole, you know, but we have like, uh, probably 5,000 to 10,000 people, uh,
00:28:17
Speaker
Wow. That happens in São Paulo, which is our, like, the biggest city. It's called the Duvierson offline, which is, like, offline fun. And we have, like, board games or RPGs, and then people just hang out and go to bars afterwards and then, oh, play or play something. And São Paulo is a big city and has, like, fantastic food too. So it's a cool place to visit if you really go there. Great parks too. Cool. Well, maybe I'll
00:28:47
Speaker
Maybe I'll add that to my list to do in the next few years. Yeah, that would be great. I kind of want to go to other conventions in the US, but yeah, money. It's definitely hard. There's some in the UK that friends go to, I would love to go to. I'd love to go to Essen one day, but it can be difficult to make it happen. And especially me, I don't live near a big airport or a big city, so I have to drive six or seven hours and then fly.
00:29:17
Speaker
So Diogo, we're getting close to the end of time here. We try to go half an hour to 45 minutes. What
Music and RPG Inspiration
00:29:26
Speaker
is a question you've always wanted to be asked so you can answer it that you've never been asked? I was going to joke to say I wanted to be asked, like, would you like to be sponsored to make all the games you have ideas for and not worry about having money to pay your bills and stuff? I was like, oh, yes, I've always wanted to be asked that.
00:29:46
Speaker
But I probably, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I mean, I would too. Yeah. Probably ask for like, uh, I don't know about my work probably. So I don't know. Like what I always, I don't know why I've always wanted to be asked that I maybe. Yeah. That's fair.
00:30:08
Speaker
So, I have a question then. It's about music. Do you listen to music or are you inspired by music when you write and create? Yes, I don't often listen to music while I'm writing. I'm trying to try that because I'm trying to get back on the jam and I'm trying new things to see if it helps. But music, yes, inspires me. Not necessarily the theme with the thing I'm writing,
00:30:37
Speaker
But I'm really into comedy and I'm really into some artists, how they create stuff and how they think and how they... So I've been listening to music that's made by comics sometimes and that's really inspired me. But yeah, or...
00:30:56
Speaker
Or, you know, Pink Rock, the Pink Rock attitude, people always said like, OSR is metal. And I'm always said, no, for me, Pink Rock, for me, OSR is Pink Rock because it's, you add what you want and make something out of it. And metal is a lot more, a lot more embellished than Pink Rock. So that's something that the way it inspires me, me too.
00:31:22
Speaker
But yeah, currently I'm really obsessed with Bo Burnman. So I listen to that a lot. And it's really a creative person that inspires me a lot, not only because of the work he does, but the things he has gone through, like the mental health issues and stuff and how they talk about it.
00:31:47
Speaker
And it made me laugh during the pandemic and that was really important. So that stayed with me and it helps me relax. Yeah. That makes sense. I will have to give him a listen. I haven't really listened to him extensively, so I will take a look today. I bought the album there. Oh, right there. All right.
00:32:12
Speaker
For listeners, you won't see this, but I can see the album on Diogo's bookshelf right behind him, nice and in plain view. It's a really well-produced product too, even for RPG. We are doing some RPG albums now, and this one, they have a...
00:32:28
Speaker
acrylic covers for the discs and you change them and the image on the disc changes because the acrylics have different colors and one color blocks the other. So it gave me an idea like to make a map and like you've changed dimensions so you put another acrylic one and the map changes because of that.
00:32:48
Speaker
And they have hidden masses in the vinyl and other places in the cards. It's really, you know, that's what I said. For me, Bo Boardman, it's like a really creative genius. And I'm willing to
Film Influence on RPG Design
00:33:04
Speaker
get inspired by how not only the craft, but how he subverts the medium of it to do something.
00:33:11
Speaker
And that's something I'm trying to explore for RPGs, like having this meta game mechanics in the game too. OK. Well, that's great. Diogo, do you have any questions for me? Yes. If you would do other creative work instead of making RPGs, would you like to do anything else?
00:33:41
Speaker
like music or being an actor or comedy or anything like that. I cannot sing to save my life. So that would not be the option. I mean, I can't sing, but if you could, I mean, I wanted to be able to do that. I would love to write comics.
00:34:07
Speaker
I think I've done some with the Tiny Supers comic and I really enjoyed it and I would love to do more. I would also love to direct film or something like that. Are you glad about it? I enjoy the act of. Yeah, when I went to college, I actually studied film.
00:34:31
Speaker
ended up doing RPGs, but it has definitely influenced how I make my games. And I'm often I've learned that in the creative process, I will answer that. Yeah, it has if you read my RPGs, especially the more especially the more recent ones, they they take a very cinematic tone to story structure, especially if you read crescendo of violence.
00:35:01
Speaker
I think Crescendo and Violence from Osprey Games is where that shows up the most because I literally say, you shouldn't try to structure this like a book. This is supposed to be a movie. You should just jump to the next scene when you're ready. You should just keep moving, right? And I use a lot of terms like that and I try to structure the character creation like that.
00:35:25
Speaker
The specific details is about the archetypes on the screen and what that communicates and the visuals. And that's really hard in RPGs because it requires a lot of visual representation. I mean, film is a really visual medium. And RPGs are visual in a different way a lot of the times. And so it has definitely influenced me in it. The influence is getting stronger as I get more comfortable in the RPG space.
00:35:50
Speaker
Uh, and I would, I would, I think I would like to go the other way. I would love for somebody to pay me to direct a crescendo, a violence movie. Like I think that would look amazing. And I would love to do that. Have you tried to like doing like a short movie or. When I, when I was college in college and around the college age, when I was still in my college town, I participated in some student films and short films. Yeah. Both as a screenwriter and a producer.
00:36:22
Speaker
So and I've directed plays for the stage. So I've done, I've done that. I used to act like a stretch, go like a final stretch, go for like, no, who cares? Maybe five, $500,000. Like we make a short film for the game, you know, you could direct that. That would be cool. Oh, I wouldn't even know what to do. Uh,
00:36:52
Speaker
Well, I tell you what, I live in North Dakota where it's very snowy. So if we make our snow and sorcery, I will put a $500,000 stretch goal and we'll make a short film. That would be fantastic. There we go. All right. Folks,
Connect with Diogo
00:37:11
Speaker
Diogo, if folks want to find you or support you, what is the best way for them to do so? You can find me on Twitter or Instagram at Diogo, underline old school.
00:37:23
Speaker
you know, score from the bone in your head, not the place you go to, you know, study math. And you can find me at Facebook too, at old scope publishing or Geogonal data. And you can find my stuff on drive through RPG, each, each IO, uh, searching for old school publishing or any of my games. And you can find my stuff selling at, uh,
00:37:48
Speaker
Exhounded funeral to some of them. We're releasing more as we work on other things. That's it. Well, Diogo, thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for inviting me. It's great to have you. That was fun. I miss talking to you. When we're working together... Yes, well, why we'll...
00:38:11
Speaker
It's one of those things where as we've worked less together, we've talked less, so we'll have to fix that. Absolutely. All right, folks. I'm Alan Barr, and this has been Radio Free RPG.