Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 26: James & Jess - Marketing in Multiple Cities
139 Plays6 years ago
Today guests are James and Jess of James and Jess Photography; a husband and wife photography team based out of Santa Barbara, California, and New York, New York. If you follow James and Jess, you know they travel quite a bit and they’ve shot weddings all over the place.
In today’s interview, I chat with James and Jess about how they market their business effectively in multiple cities, especially since those cities aren’t exactly close to one another. We discuss some of the challenges they face as they got started in New York City and ultimately, what it was that led to a successful presence there.
Check out the show notes at https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-james-jess-episode-26.
Recommended
Transcript
Consistency in Business
00:00:05
Speaker
And I think it's really important to remember that consistency is everything when you're trying to, especially when you're trying to build in a new city, because sometimes you're going to be discouraged. Sometimes you're going to be surprised. Like a bunch of people will write you back and say, yes, actually I have a wedding that I would love to have you on right now.
Introduction of Guests James and Jess
00:00:27
Speaker
Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative, service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones. Today's guests are James and Jess of James and Jess Photography, a husband and wife photography team based out of Santa Barbara, California and New York, New York.
Marketing a Photography Business
00:00:48
Speaker
If you follow James and Jess, you know they travel quite a bit and they've shot weddings all over the place.
00:00:53
Speaker
In today's interview, I chat with James and Jess about how they market their business effectively in multiple cities, especially since those cities aren't exactly close to one another. We discuss some of the challenges they faced as they got started in New York City, and ultimately what it was that led to a successful presence there.
00:01:10
Speaker
Be sure to check out the show notes at davianchrista.com for the resources we mentioned during the episode, and I'd like to hear from you about what kind of content you'd like to see on the Brands at Book podcast as we move forward. I'd also like to know what episodes you've enjoyed most so far and why. To leave your feedback, head on over to the Davian Christa Facebook page and send us a
Photography Journey and Challenges
00:01:28
Speaker
message. Now, onto the episode.
00:01:38
Speaker
All right, James and Jess, I am so excited for you to be joining me on the Brands That Book Show. We've been trying to put this episode together for months, maybe even since we started. Yeah, it's been a while and I think we've kind of ping pong back and forth between you producing a child and us traveling, so we're finally here. That's right, but not only traveling. I'm going to give you a second to introduce yourself, but part of the reason that we haven't been able to connect is because I think you guys had nine weddings alone in September.
00:02:06
Speaker
Yeah, that's about right. Yeah, and so you've had just a crazy season. But could you take a second and just introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about
Origin Story of James and Jess
00:02:15
Speaker
what you do? Yeah, so we are James and Jess, we are a husband and wife team, photography team, and we are based out of Santa Barbara in New York City. And we've been doing this for I think this is Jess's 12th, we're about to end Jess's 12th season and my eighth and ninth season. And we met
00:02:32
Speaker
when i was in college and just had already been shooting full time for years and we can hit it off eventually after a hot pursuit and we decided to join forces when we got married and officially do the james and jess brand and with that came a lot of really fun ideas and a lot of work behind i guess a lot of what we're talking about today and uh...
Marketing Complexities Across Cities
00:02:52
Speaker
new york and san barbara and everything in between
00:02:54
Speaker
Yeah, I'm excited to dig into what really the topic of today's episode is, which is marketing in multiple cities. So you all are bi-coastal, too. And I would say Santa Barbara is not even the easiest airport to get really in and out of in terms of like cheaper flights in LA, right? So it's in LA, Santa Barbara is getting there. But it is that is definitely one of the caveats.
00:03:16
Speaker
Yeah traveling every other week or so so i want to i definitely wanted we're gonna dig into all of that and there's so many other things that we could talk to talk about just in terms of longevity you know i mean twelve seasons is is incredible you have a we just talked about this a little bit but a crazy end of season here nine weddings alone in september but james something that that he said right before we jumped on the recording here was that you don't even feel like
00:03:42
Speaker
you're not really necessarily stressed about it, right?
Importance of Systems and Stress Management
00:03:45
Speaker
And I think that just speaks to one experience, two having systems in place to make all of that manageable. That could be a whole another episode.
00:03:55
Speaker
So we both spend a ton of time there, but again, I think it's just, you know, if you're looking for somebody to follow, if, you know, whether you're a wedding photographer or not, but looking for an example of somebody who's, who has longevity in the business and has really put together systems to make things work, you all are definitely people that come to mind.
00:04:14
Speaker
So, but we're going to move on. We're not going to let that distract us from the topic of today's conversation, which is marketing in both Santa Barbara and New York City. And so you will actively market both places. You travel a bunch in both places. I feel like you could almost live in New York City if you wanted to.
00:04:30
Speaker
And then I also want to talk about a fun trip that you guys are taking this offseason as well. But first, tell us, you gave us a little bit of backstory about how you all got started and when James decided to join the business.
Bi-coastal Business Model
00:04:42
Speaker
But tell us a little bit more about how you ended up being on both coasts shooting. Yeah, absolutely. I think there was a lot of intentionality kind of to start. I think a lot of people think of
00:04:53
Speaker
multiple cities and will not know when we can't dive into it a little bit deeper talk about like the intention of it i just used to live in manhattan full time when she was in college she was there for a season and then she brought me out and we were dating and i had. Personally for new york it's kind of been instilled in me i just think going up in a coastal town on the west coast.
00:05:16
Speaker
idea of something greater of a city of almost like a metropolis was such a grand idea so we she took me when we were dating and I think I stepped out of the cap for the first time ever and just felt more at home than anywhere I ever have except for Santa Barbara it was the only only time I ever felt that again was when I moved to Santa Barbara so along the lines of working with when we were rebranding as James and Jess we
00:05:42
Speaker
We threw out this idea of what if we reach for two coasts. And that's kind of how that started. And I don't think you can get a greater contrast between Santa Barbara, which is like 80,000 people.
00:05:55
Speaker
tiny little beach town and New York City. It's hilarious the contrast between them and I think choosing those two has inspired us constantly. But I think that there's probably a number of different ways going about trying to market yourself in two different cities. And it's not like for us, we are between Baltimore and Washington DC.
00:06:16
Speaker
So, that kind of makes sense, right? Like both those are driving distance. It's not going to cost us really anything extra to market in DC than it would for us to market in Annapolis or Baltimore. For New York City though, you're literally – you're on the other side of the country. You have to deal with flights and all of that stuff.
Investment in Relationships
00:06:35
Speaker
How did you all – how did you all even approach – so, you decided you wanted to market in New York City. What was the next step? Yeah, I'm just thinking back on how funny it was.
00:06:44
Speaker
And to be honest, a pain in the ass it was to start. And it was great, no regrets. It's a decision and it's very intentional and it is a grind. I think a lot of it comes down to other people can't read your mind and don't know what you want to do. So you have to put it out there. You have to be posting about it. You have to be telling other people. When we did a full rebrand on our website, we marketed Santa Barbara and New York City. And that was before we were shooting a lot in New York City, but we knew
00:07:14
Speaker
that is where we want it to be working. And so we put it out there for people to see that. But a lot of it is like the first couple of trips that we took out there, we paid for everything. Fully fronted at least the four trips, the intentional four trips. And I'm like, Oh, let's visit New York. But when we decided we're doing New York, I think the first at least four trips we took, which were probably within like six months of each other. Sure.
00:07:38
Speaker
we just kept fronting the money and it cost a lot, it did cost a lot on the front end and we were savvy about it but we knew unless we, I think the pros and cons of social media is anyone can say they're anything and that's a brilliant thing and I think I love that but it's not enough, you have to show it, no show it pun intended right there. We definitely fronted the money and then we can, I think we should talk a little bit more about what we did in those four or five trips.
00:08:06
Speaker
Yeah, and that's definitely what I want to hear. So you decided that you were going to make the investment so that you could actually get out there and produce some work in New York. So what kind of plan did you put together to determine? I mean, did you just say you were going to be there on certain dates or did you line up? Walk us through the process here. Sure. So I guess step one, choosing New York, being intentional about it, knowing that
00:08:30
Speaker
We have projected this six months, whatever you want to take these trips to really sink some roots in for a lack of better word, kind of water the soil. And one, we put it out there on our social media platforms. And then two, we we did our research. You know, we figured out where the people out there that we have maybe worked with before or have seen their work online or maybe
00:08:54
Speaker
maybe not shooting for the top right now but like hey who are some people that i've never heard of that are maybe on my level
Networking Strategies
00:09:00
Speaker
that we can find on social media reach out to and then understanding that. The greatest tool we use is relationships and knowing that if i have industry acquaintances and become industry friends in new york city that's how you work with people we all work with wanna work with people we love and they're not gonna know you unless you invest into a relationship with them.
00:09:21
Speaker
So, as you reached out through social media, seeing who was already out there in New York City that you could work with, were these mostly past clients? Were they other photographers that you reached out to and just said, hey, can we take photos of you and your loved one? Like, how did that work? How did you actually – like, who were the people that you were reaching out to offering sessions to? It was a mix of all of those. Yeah, it was anything we could get. It was anything and everything, right? Yeah. So, a lot of it was like,
00:09:51
Speaker
planners or florists or other wedding vendors that we had either seen online or heard from other people, reaching out to them but offering to them what we can do to help them. So asking them if they need head shots or if they, I think we even offered family sessions. We don't really do family sessions.
00:10:09
Speaker
but we're like how can we help you in offering that first because in any type of relationship when you're able to offer that before you're asking like we weren't asking them for anything for ourselves we just said
00:10:21
Speaker
Hey, how can we help you? And how can we be there for you during your season? And not everyone writes back. Yeah. It's like on the back end is a list. Like you said, who did we reach out to? Well, one, you start and it physically mapped it out. Okay. These are the people that I know live out there that are at least connected to our industry. We happen to have one or two friends that lived in New York and
00:10:44
Speaker
Well, actually, one of them now, we just did an engagement session in New York last week, which was awesome. But at the time- Those photos were beautiful too, by the way. That's all I wanted to hear. Yeah, that was a good time. You know, we reached out and she had just moved. She started working in fashion in LA, got recruited to go to New York City, and we were like, hey, we're trying this too. Can we run around New York and take photos of you? And of course, she's in fashion, so she was kind of all dolled up. And then we kept finding every avenue we could so that
00:11:11
Speaker
We can actually prove we do shoot in new york we do frequent new york and then eventually becomes we do split our time between. Santa barbara and new york i think going in it with a pretty thick shell like you can start with a list of ten people these are ten people are right back ten people might not write you back. Totally fine one might write you back yet.
00:11:35
Speaker
I think that boils down to how badly do I want to do this? I didn't choose New York because it was trendy or a lot of people liked it. It happens to be those things at times. But I choose New York because it inspired me and it was an intentional decision. So I knew even if it's 100 people down this list and I finally get one bite, I'm going to do this. And not be discouraged when things don't work out exactly as you thought that they would.
00:11:57
Speaker
Sure, sure. And I think that's great advice to people because I think sometimes people, you know, we have these dreams and we get really excited about them. And then, you know, we send these cold emails, we finally sum it up the courage to do so. Don't hear back from the vast majority of people or maybe even, you know, the first time around and not hearing back from anybody.
Consistency in Branding and Marketing
00:12:13
Speaker
So I think it's great, you know, you all including that bit. But even during the research phase, did you target even a specific kind of vendor? Like, was it mostly, you know, planners and florists? Were there certain things you were looking for?
00:12:25
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely kind of when it boils down to objectively like what's our objective to get business in New York City? It's just simple who and it's what I tell anyone who asked how do I just book in general more? You know when you follow your own advice was like, okay Well, where are the the hubs so to speak of where do weddings come from? Well, if we're going cold call they come from coordinators venues sometimes florists and past clients
00:12:49
Speaker
So what research can I do there? Oh, well, there's these venues, maybe. And, you know, you kind of go, you know, you have your Manhattan, you're like, OK, vaguely. Like, is there something in Brooklyn? Is there something in New Jersey or something in Queens? Is there something around there that I can? Is there some low hanging fruit? Is there a new venue or is there a refurbished venue? You know, and that's easy to find. You just start researching it. Or is there is there something that I could add value to that eventually might book me a wedding? So we started reaching out to venues and like, hey,
00:13:20
Speaker
Looks like you have this, can we put a team together and do a styled shoot there? And all of a sudden, you find people whose dreams are in sync with you and you all have beautiful photos at a venue that books weddings with coordinators that book weddings with a photographer that books weddings. And that's it. And I think we've all heard this before and it sounds so juvenile when I say it because go add value, go find the people and build it. Like actually do it. Yeah. And things start to happen.
00:13:46
Speaker
And I think it's really important to remember that consistency is everything when you're trying to, especially when you're trying to build in a new city, because sometimes you're going to be discouraged. Sometimes you're going to be surprised. Like a bunch of people write you back and say, yes, actually, I have a wedding that I would love to have you on right now. So like,
00:14:04
Speaker
Consistency meaning like every day like you have your things that you're working on whether that's like posting on Instagram strategically with images that you took and Like making sure you use the right hashtags and stuff like that But you have to be consistent in the game because there's gonna be all sorts of right and we always like to say like Consistency is greater than I guess you could say hype Mm-hmm like type of when we first were like are we doing this? Holy crap? We're doing this we're gonna do New York like that excitement was fantastic. Yeah
00:14:32
Speaker
I'm standing that the first email of a no I got back took that away completely. Sure. Okay. I can't base this decision off my emotional excitement. I'm basing it off of me consistently compounding every result I can get until it comes to a tipping point. I hope that only takes a few months. It's realistically before we started really jamming out there and consistently took over a year. Yeah.
00:14:58
Speaker
Yeah, and I would think anything faster than a year would be really, really fast. Because relationships take time. I've never seen it. So yeah. But with that said too, you weren't living out there. So I think even just over a year, that's also pretty quick. And so I think it speaks to the effectiveness of really building relationships and being intentional about who you're building relationships with.
00:15:20
Speaker
So you mentioned something in your last answer that I want to ask you about style shoots, specifically what kind of sessions you were setting up. It sounds like you were doing pretty much whatever it was that that person needed. Were you intentional though about something like a style shoot or something that would get you closer to working with more vendors at a time or creating the images that you wanted to create out in New York? Yeah, it's so funny because there's so many things you're like, well, is it the images you need or is it the relationships you need? It's all those things
00:15:50
Speaker
I think when you go into an understanding, my priority, my overarching priority of business in New York needs to be approached with a lot of humility. So if we, for instance, like, okay, we wanna work, we need some coordinators. So hey, is there a designer or coordinator here that wants to put together a shoot or even help put your name on a little shoot? We do, even if it's not like an absurd venue shoot, what can we do here? And if their vision isn't in sync with ours, give it to them.
00:16:17
Speaker
Sure like honor that because they're taking the time to add the value to you and then once they get you know you give
Vendor Relationship Management
00:16:25
Speaker
you theirs you can turn and take a few for yourself but objectively for me it was relationships over photographs. Our work doesn't speak for itself and it should and that's great and the more you do that the more photos you can take.
00:16:38
Speaker
But once you kind of have the baseline of at least a few photos in the area you want to prove, people want to know that you are a good person to work with. Sure. Sure. So I guess speaking of those relationships, what are some of the things that you did to continue to develop those relationships? Like we've gone to different places and done style shoots and things like that.
00:16:56
Speaker
I think one of the challenges though and it's not even necessarily, I'm not saying it's easy to line those up because like you said, you could email 10, 20 people and hear back. One response would probably be pretty good. However, it's I think also difficult after you deliver the images to those planners. It's not like the relationship ends there. What do you – It shouldn't end there. Sure, sure. What are you all doing to continue those relationships or stay top of mind for these people?
00:17:25
Speaker
I think the there's a few things you can do one i mean the best way possible you can milk that shoot for as much as it's worth sure standing in your regiment of what you're going to show great in a month from now i'm gonna post another one of those photos in a month consistently understanding that. Quite literally top of mind it's gonna be on top of your feet you're gonna keep tagging them and reminding them what you guys did together and.
00:17:48
Speaker
Relate like you said relationships shouldn't end there and i would consider that a relationship if it ended there it is a very intentional whether it be emails if your relationship gets deeper or where is it there's a handful people every time we're in new york we all it's hey let's grab drinks we miss you let's do dinner let's do this.
00:18:07
Speaker
and the beauty of the day nature and they're going to be instagram and you're constantly conversating with them and that's not that hard to hearts twenty four seven but understanding that complimenting understanding like this work is great hey and and always always being for them and always reminding them at least weekly when you just when you see their stuff you know it was have the thoughts of that's pretty you should tell them just these little little fish hooks that kind of go out it's not just this one boulder that takes care of it it's all these tiny little things
00:18:35
Speaker
that continues to weaves together a solid relationship i think one thing that i really appreciate what you said is re sharing that content over and over again and getting the most out of it and going back to what you said over you know about hypers consistency i think one thing that we see a lot is new people do a shoot that they love and share a bunch of images in a short amount of time from that shoot.
00:18:55
Speaker
And what happens is you've pretty much gone through all those images in a week's time. And you still can to a certain extent, but you can share if that's good work, you can share that a month later, six months later, a year later, you can continue to share that, that work. It's not like it's not good work anymore. After a year, only if
00:19:13
Speaker
I mean, if you had a significant style shift or something like that, then you certainly retire work at certain points. But make the most out of your work because you put so much effort into it in the first place. So I really appreciate it. It's like, well, why am I doing this shoot? It's not just to show off once. Yeah. And not to show off necessarily, but we book, it's so funny. People find us on Instagram all the time because we tag or the location tag of a venue. And it was like, oh, great. I haven't shot there in a year.
00:19:41
Speaker
But I posted about it last week and you know so I think another strategy be like oh there's like a handful places you like to shoot whether it be like Central Park or for us you know those low those random locations that people will research well if you want to be consistent. In that world just be showing that constantly yeah in general what would you say were the biggest obstacles in getting started in New York and I know we talked a little bit about those but what did that look like the feeling of defeat we kinda had to come to a pretty raw place where.
Resilience and Passion in Business
00:20:10
Speaker
Just like in all things you cannot expect handouts yeah you cannot wait for whatever location or idea you have to be brought to you cuz by then it's usually too late if it even it will never happen with new york city will never happen so understanding that we're going into this.
00:20:28
Speaker
not expecting someone to hand us anything for free, but also we're gonna go into this with a thick shell, understanding that if someone says no or doesn't respond, we didn't do anything wrong, and they didn't do anything wrong at all. But understanding that it's a slow trudge and to keep your passion at the top of your mind and the end game in mind, because it is super fun and I've never regretted it once, but there has been times where you said,
00:20:56
Speaker
nothing. It's even harder when you do one thing and then it gets really quiet for a little bit. It's the behind the scenes that consistent, it's the lower half the iceberg, so to speak, of what actually matters and understanding it's totally worth it. You just have to be making sure you have your reasonings down enough that you will be willing to go into it. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. What kept you going during those times when it would have been maybe easier to say, okay, I'm going to focus on Santa Barbara?
00:21:26
Speaker
I mean, I think what a big thing that kept us going was knowing that we both love working in New York City and we wanted that more. So like keeping our eyes on that goal.
00:21:37
Speaker
Yeah, it was worth it. Keep boiling down to, oh, I could put this off or do we really need to do this? And the second we would do that, start creeping back of we really do want to do this. Sure. And for us, it was flying back there and being back there and spending time in the city. Like that re-inspired us all over again every time. And when you're physically in a place, it's easier to connect with people than just email. So like people that we would email or that we would send messages to on Instagram.
00:22:03
Speaker
then when we were in the city, we would say, hey, we're in the city, let's get drinks. And then of course, those conversations that you have in person are just going to be more valuable than an email exchange. I think for us, anytime that we got discouraged, we would say, we just need to go back. Let's go back there. Let's be in the city. Let's try to fit another shoe. And that would re-inspire us all over again. And that's, I'm just laughing because there's been times where we've just been sitting at like Starbucks in New York, like the first times we were just sending like hundreds of emails and just sitting there.
00:22:33
Speaker
We're waiting for some waiting for replies. In a note on the DMs and the emails, and this is coming from a point now where I received those.
00:22:44
Speaker
if it's a copy and paste i erased it immediately and that sounds super harsh but you know
Authentic Engagement and Success
00:22:51
Speaker
you have to keep in mind these people are probably getting a lot of these and if they're not great hopefully that they're flattered and it's a first but do when i say do your research i mean okay davian krista i want to have reach out to you guys i'm not just going to say
00:23:04
Speaker
Hi, we're James and Jess. Love your work. Let's chat. Can we do something soon?" And I would be like, hey, you guys just sent a baby. Oh my goodness. And I would add every personal detail I personally could. And yes, you cannot copy and paste stuff like that, but it's actually going to be worth it. I'd much rather receive... I'd much rather send five of those emails than 30 of those emails in a day because your chances went way up. And I think it's so easy to do that now, right? I mean, with Instagram and social media.
00:23:31
Speaker
I mean, it's hard to take the time to write personal emails, you know, but again, your strategy, especially prioritizing the relationship, even over the opportunities that you had in New York. And I think one follows the other, right? Like those opportunities followed for sure that, you know, it's definitely worth it sending those personalized emails to people, even if you end up sending a Starbucks for a couple hours alone, you know, not getting quite the response that you're hoping for.
00:24:01
Speaker
But I also gotta imagine too, when we do things like that, when you guys are starting this, basically, it's like starting a business again, right? I mean, you're starting, it's like restarting what you've already successfully done in Santa Barbara. And that can be, you know, you would think, I think on some level, one would think, that's gotta be easier, right? Like you've done it before. But I think that kind of like what you're saying, it's a matter of reminding yourself to kind of go back to the basics, so to speak.
00:24:28
Speaker
And it can be discouraging because you feel like it should be easier. You know, like I've done this before. It should be easier to do this. They're already great at taking photos and we have roots in Santa Barbara. Why? Why is it because you're completely resetting geography, which is.
00:24:43
Speaker
When you think about your home base, we wouldn't have a business without Santa Barbara being our home base. Yeah. And the relationships you've built in Santa Barbara. First and foremost, exactly. Yeah. And so, again, I think it just speaks to, especially in industry like the wedding industry. But I think a lot of industries are like this, especially in the creative world, largely, that relationships do play such an important role. And it's not necessarily a matter of who you know, but it's a matter of investing in people
00:25:12
Speaker
No, so I think that's great but I also got to imagine that to a certain extent remembering that had to make it a little bit easier in the long run or just remembering like, hey, it was hard building my business for the first time but I can do it. I've seen what it looks like when I do that successfully. Someone who's looking to do multiple cities, I would hope they've already have someone of an established business
Community and Referral Strategies
00:25:35
Speaker
I'm at home on the cell phone base that's the part to drop them okay i have actually done this before i know that you've already done it is the confident part i can do this successfully here i can do it successfully somewhere else and then going back to the relationship is gonna pop to my head once we've done that and even though i show united the conference we've made friends.
00:25:57
Speaker
who live out on the East Coast. I mean, you guys too, but we have some friends that live like right in either in Jersey or Brooklyn or whatever it is. And it's fun because if we're booked, we'll send them their way. And if they're booked, we'll send one our way. And that is, that's invaluable to both parties. Don't think about the photographer's competition over there. Sure, sure. Yeah, absolutely. And that's the thing about something like photography is you can only take, you can only be at one wedding in a weekend. It's fine. That's it. Yeah.
00:26:22
Speaker
So there's definitely, if you're booked, like you said, passing on referrals to other people as well. So I want to go back to basically trying to think through marketing in New York City. What advice would you give to somebody who's trying to market successfully in another city? And I know we've talked about those things, but if you just had to summarize them, what would they be? Oh man, that's a summary. Okay, sure. So one, I think
00:26:49
Speaker
I think it comes down to like all things why you're doing this your foundation if you are choosing a second location to look cool on instagram i know this and so you know but it'll fade out yes not if you're choosing a location because it's trendy somewhere else it won't last i'm so actually figuring a location of why you want to do this.
00:27:10
Speaker
And I would say that's important to mention because I know it seems weird to say like, oh, who would do that just to look cool. But it's easy to look around at people who are running similar businesses to you and say, oh, that person's off doing this. Exactly. And then all of a sudden getting in that mindset, oh, do I have to do that too? But you don't. Exactly. That's kind of the point I'm trying to hit is I love New York City. I chose New York City because it gives me life and I feel super inspired by it.
00:27:38
Speaker
I know people that hate new york city and they should not feel like they need to go shoot in new york city chris and i work where just home bodies you know that's something really early on i remember and kinda like you guys christa start the business i came on i came on a long later but i remember think i would be so cool to be traveling this in that place and you know after doing it a couple times like me and i just wish
00:27:59
Speaker
You know, I would much prefer to travel to a venue that's like 20 minutes from me, get home at 10 o'clock, crawl into bed, wake up in my own bed, have waffles the next morning. That's like that to me is the dream. So I think I really do think that's important to mention just because it's something that you can do doesn't mean as something that you ought to do. So focusing on the why, but again, all right, we'll go back to you. What's next?
00:28:22
Speaker
Sure. By steps, I would say, like we just said, figure out a place that that really does inspire you that you think you could consistently do.
Approaching New Markets
00:28:29
Speaker
Go into it with a lot of humility, not expecting handouts. And this is my advice, like I said, is prioritize relationships over anything.
00:28:37
Speaker
And it sounds so, to me, it sounds so basic because I repeat myself all the time, even to myself. But without, without having a solid, I call it spiderweb of relationships and network of relationships there, you, it's not going to be fun and you're not going to be able to do it well. So that is my biggest piece is keep investing and going into it the minds of how can I add value to these people? How can I approach New York city and in some way leave it, make it better than when I found it?
00:29:02
Speaker
How can I add value to this tiny little niche or person or crew that I got in with? How can I make it better than when I found it? Yeah. So actionable, it seems silly, but that is what it is. Yeah, but I think that's, I mean, to me, that should be encouraging people because I think sometimes we get in the tendency of thinking that there's some hack marketing trick out there that only the special people know about.
00:29:28
Speaker
I personally don't pay for, we don't pay for paid marketing at all. And that's okay, but I knew I wanted to do this long term and I knew if I might get a couple weddings here and there, but it would be kind of from a random source. Well, no, I think too, like based off what you're saying, especially when it comes to paid marketing, paid marketing can be a little bit tricky, especially when you're charging a certain amount per wedding. And a word of mouth referral or a referral from a relationship is going to be much more likely
00:29:57
Speaker
Much more likely than someone who stumbles across a paid ad and you're like, well, how much? And that's the thing. I think do we market? Absolutely.
Generosity in Business Relationships
00:30:05
Speaker
Like it looks different. I would rather take say, like, let's say on a, on a scale, you're taking a grand and you're like, I'm going to pay someone online a thousand dollars to market me.
00:30:13
Speaker
I would rather take that thousand dollars and invested in value of either style shoot or taking a crew out to dinner or anything you take a grand you took ten people out that's like you're investing into that yeah way more exponentially powerful than.
00:30:30
Speaker
Then marketing and if some people do choose the pay to sure you'll probably you might be able to get a few here and there but it's not sustainable and it's not a consistent. It's not a safe bet in the long run it's also so important to treat each one of those people like they are your next potential client yeah.
00:30:45
Speaker
and like you are going to be working with them in the future. So like every wedding that we shoot we treat the guests that way and especially the bridal party and then we have a lot of bridesmaids that then when they get engaged were the first person that they call to shoot their wedding because they've already seen how we work and experienced us on the wedding day and so I think it's important to keep that in mind with vendors too that when you're working with them like treat them with the same love and respect that you would if this was a real wedding or if this was a real thing even if it's only styled because when you treat them with that
00:31:16
Speaker
They're going to know how you work. They really are. It's your character. Yeah. And Jess, I think I heard you mention that. I heard you talking about that at the last thing United. And that's something I think that's a great approach. What are some of the things that you do during a wedding day? You know, to treat the guests almost as if, you know, they're your next client. This is a fun, I'm glad we're going to this because I think we've talked so much about how to. Yeah. Once you get a wedding there, how do you optimize it? Yeah.
00:31:42
Speaker
James and I will both do this on the wedding day, but we love to take a couple, at least we hope that they're a couple, like someone that looks like... You can scan costs till hour and identify a couple.
00:31:54
Speaker
And then say, hey, can we take a photo of you guys? Every now and then it ends up being. Oh, man, I did it with brother and sister once. And I was, oh, my gosh, this is the most awkward interaction. And they looked at me like, you've got to be kidding me. That is amazing, though. The overall payoff of doing that. But the thing is like. But you're posing them as if they were as if you were posing the bride and groom, right? That's what. Yeah, I mean, it's only like three photos. It's like, hey, you got a photo together. And then if they want one for iPhone, great. And that's an opportunity to
00:32:24
Speaker
hey are you an instagram and that's just a little touch point because you so little thread between i'm a photographer you're a cute couple let's work yeah you kind of find it a seed there and a lot of times it's a couple's first professional photo they've ever had taken.
00:32:40
Speaker
Which is so, it sounds absurd to all of us who are photographers, right? Like, you gotta be kidding me. No, most people don't go out of their way to professional voter's take, and especially pre-engagement. Yeah, especially pre-engagement. So that's such a good point. I think that's such a strong thing that people could do real easily. Because during cocktail hour, what else are you doing? Otherwise, you're just getting random...
00:33:02
Speaker
Even have your second go do it for you. You know, there's two of us, which is great. But there's always enough time to do that. So another thing to do is it's very especially you get so excited with those photos of the first wedding. A lot of times you're like, oh, these are sacred. I need to paste these out or I need to get this published or something. I would highly recommend sharing those images freely with every vendor. And I would say proactively do that.
00:33:27
Speaker
because i know there's certain there's all kinds of styles of business i rather continue to found a relationship and to make like a hundred bucks off a few images for someone's marketing purposes so i would after the wedding i we make a separate cloud spot gallery for vendors hey vendors it was awesome to work with you here's the download link please feel free to use these as you wish i can't wait to work with you again here's everyone's tags to make sure you're here and then that just furthers
00:33:53
Speaker
Yeah, the relationship. Quick question. Watermark or no watermark? No watermark. No watermark. No watermark. Not the photo of my life. No, not the way. One, because I have been frustrated at photos with watermarks and I know Photoshop, which I don't do, but I'm like, all it takes is a screenshot and a crop of like happening. Or if it's right across to be like, personally, when I see an image of the water across across the whole thing, it's like, well, this is
00:34:20
Speaker
This is a pointless image. I think too, as far as building those relationships, if you can give a florist an image you took that captures her work beautifully, she's going to have no problem crediting you on social media or remembering you the next time she's asked for a recommendation. But if you give her one with a crazy, ugly watermark, that's probably not going on her website. She's
Creative Growth Through Travel
00:34:45
Speaker
not using it and you're not top of mind anymore.
00:34:47
Speaker
Yeah and that comes down to like the generosity of that people remember your generosity and I think a lot of time people think oh but you can't edit it or you can't throw a filter on it and I get that like we spend a lot of time dialing in our style but say on the off chance someone
00:35:02
Speaker
throws over an instagram filter or something in your photo and post it and tags you all that's gonna do is have them go back to your if they actually follow through with the tag they'll find your page but actually this like fantastic it doesn't damage you at all as much as we think in our heads right
00:35:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things that I want to talk about before we wrap up here is your trip that you're taking to Paris this off season. And so can you talk about why you wanted to take this trip? And it was originally a, I mean, it still is a, it wasn't business motivated. Right. Not at all. The, the motivation made, so we're, our off season is six weeks. So for six weeks, we're going to move to St. Germain, Paris.
00:35:45
Speaker
We already booked our apartment out there and flights and everything. So we every year since we've been married, we've said we want to spend a month or two out of the country during our season because of course, during that time in offseason, that's when you're getting a lot of leads and inquiries and you're either meeting with couples or in our case, we Skype with a lot of our don't necessarily need to be quote unquote in the office. Yeah.
00:36:10
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So we always said, Oh, next year we'll do this. Next year we'll do this. And we're celebrating five years of marriage. Congratulations. Thank you. But we realized, Oh, something keeps coming up in our schedule. And if we don't book it and like carve out that time intentionally. Which is very great. Like it's not complaining where, you know, things come up, but you have to be proactive with your time. It's a pretty sacred thing.
00:36:36
Speaker
So we said, this is actually before our last trip to Paris in July, we said, okay, Paris next year, let's figure out when we can do this, let's pick the dates, let's book it and then protect that time. So we have a wedding January mid January, like two days after fly to Paris.
00:36:54
Speaker
and we'll be there. Like you said, it's for leisure. Jess actually did 23andMe this year, and like randomly, there's like a little bit of French. It has to be Paris. So we'll go, and a lot of it's just, it sounds really funny, but whenever we spend a lot of time somewhere else, even small amounts of time, creatively, you just get a different perspective. And it's kind of like when you're playing Mario as a kid and you get a mushroom, you like level up.
00:37:20
Speaker
It does level you up like every time I go somewhere. I think that's one of the best like metaphors that somebody has used for creatively leveling up. I love that. This started as more of like a personal way to celebrate an anniversary. However, since then, you've booked a number of sessions in Paris, which is awesome because again, I think as far as leveling up creatively, you have subjects to shoot out there and you're booking work, which is never a bad thing.
00:37:50
Speaker
Do you think that the investment you made in choosing to shoot in a second destination, like choosing to shoot in New York City has helped you book other destinations as well, whether it be destination weddings or in this case, just sessions, you know, you put it out there, you're going to Paris, and now you have a number of sessions
Expanding Reach to Destinations
00:38:07
Speaker
booked. Do you think the two are correlated anyway? I think it'd be silly to say no had no influence.
00:38:15
Speaker
want to compare strategically, let's go real quick back to Santa Barbara, New York. It basically, once you have roots in both places, it doubled your reach physically. Yeah. Like we are, someone sees you on your West Coast, we get a handful of Mexico, Hawaii, and you can go Pacific Northwest because we're pretty central there. As in if we're on the East Coast, you got the whole East Coast
00:38:38
Speaker
Iceland's right up there and Europe is basically closer than Hawaii to us from New York. So that exponentially opens up that realm. And people know you travel. That's the thing. And people know you travel through it. So people are expecting travel. And I think when we announced that we were going over there as a handful of past clients and people that followed us or
00:39:00
Speaker
that already wanted that, oh, Paris, and it was more of a reason. They were looking for an excuse. Let's pull the trigger. Yeah. Yeah. So I think living that lifestyle of being people that travel definitely
00:39:14
Speaker
It made it easier for us to even have a thought of living somewhere for six weeks out of the country and I think it encouraged others to come alongside. Well, that's awesome. I'm really excited to follow along as far as if we were in Paris, we'd be booking a session for sure. Jack, I don't know. I don't know how I feel about flying with our, I mean, he would be closer to eight months at that point, but still.
00:39:36
Speaker
So you all OSA trip out here to Annapolis for sure at some point though.
Upcoming Keynote and Contact Information
00:39:42
Speaker
And I really appreciate you guys taking the time to share about that because I think booking those destinations or consistently booking destination weddings or destination events is something that people would love to do and they want to do when they especially when they get into this industry. But it seems like such a confusing feat. But I think you guys broke it down I think into much more manageable steps.
00:40:05
Speaker
So I appreciate that. If you are going to be at Show United, these two are giving a keynote this year.
00:40:11
Speaker
Super stoked about that. Yeah, yes, that's awesome. And otherwise, if you are in Paris listening to this episode, you should get in touch with James and Jess. And speaking of, what are the best ways for people to follow along and learn more about you all? Totally, yeah. I think Instagrams are daily upkeep of what we're doing. So Jess is at Jess Fairchild, and I am at James Witte. Other than that, you can find us at jamesandjess.com. And there are streams of whatever most current events are on there, wherever you can find us.
00:40:41
Speaker
Awesome, y'all. Well, thank you so much. Yeah, absolutely. And then if it's okay to say anyone listening, like if you have more questions about this or you're genuinely curious about New York or Paris or anything else, you guys feel free to email us, DM us. We love chatting about this stuff. Yeah, that's an awesome offer. So if you're listening and you're interested, definitely take them up from that.
00:41:04
Speaker
Thanks for tuning into the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to dvandchrista.com.
00:41:27
Speaker
you