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I am your Podcaster: Original Trilogy Retrospective || Star Wars Month
123 Plays7 months ago
Welcome to our very own podcast in a galaxy far far away as we take on the sci fi franchise that launched a thousand laser swords: Star Wars! From the three main trilogies to a lively discussion about one particular game franchise in the series, this is one themed month you will not want to miss!
In this episode, Satsunami and Andrew return to the trilogy that started it all! From A New Hope to Return of the Jedi, how tough was it for George Lucas to create the original films? Have they really stood the test of time? How do they fare against the other trilogies? And find out Satsunami's least favourite entry of the three! With all this and more, you do not want to miss out!
This podcast is a member of the PodPack Collective. The members are as follows:
Chatsunami
Casting Views
Nerdstalgic
2 Girls 1 Reusable Cup
Review it Yourself
Seismic Cinema
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Transcript
Introduction to Star Wars Month
00:00:00
Speaker
Well Andrew, I cannot wait to show the listeners our video on Star Wars Month opening text crawl. Um, Satsu, you do realise this is a audio-only podcast? Noooooo! Welcome to Star Wars Month.
00:00:18
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to the second episode of Star Wars Month.
Rewatching and Mixed Feelings on Star Wars Films
00:00:23
Speaker
My name's Satenami and joining me today is another that my very own only hope for this episode is the one and only, Andrew. Andrew, welcome back. I've got a bad feeling about this.
00:00:35
Speaker
How are you doing today? Except for that line, of course. Did I use that in the last episode? Probably. Oh dear. Okay, whatever. Yeah, I'm doing well, thank you. It's been a fun couple of months where we've been working on watching all these movies and getting ready for Star Wars Month. Hopefully people are enjoying their May and enjoying what we're listening to.
00:00:52
Speaker
Yeah, I wish I could say it's been a pleasure and I think for maybe 80% of these films so far it's been a pleasure but there have been some right stinkers I have to say.
Discussing the Original Trilogy's Impact
00:01:04
Speaker
Not so much for this set of films that we're going to be talking about today because I feel as if, if I started this episode to say, oh these are some bad films Andrew, I feel as if genuinely we would attract
00:01:16
Speaker
the attention of well the corner of the fanbase that actually own pitchforks and torches. So we're not going to start off the episode like that but of course today we are kicking it old school and we are going back to 1977 where we're going to be talking about none other than the original trilogy of Star Wars. So if you heard of your first hoax we're going to be talking about a new hoax
00:01:39
Speaker
we're going to be talking about The Empire Strikes Back, and last but not least we're going to be talking about Return of the Jedi, which I have some thoughts. We'll get on to that, but before we kick it off and start talking about these very iconic films, I'm going to ask you first, Sandru, what was your exposure to these films when you were growing up? Because last week we did talk a little bit about our introductions to the series with the prequels, going to see them in the cinemas and such. So yeah, what's your experience with the
00:02:09
Speaker
original trilogy. Yeah, so those are my experiences of the prequels, but the prequels were still kind of coming out while I was younger, whereas the original trilogy had already all come out. But we had the original trilogy on VHS. And so I would watch it and say like super regularly, but I would watch the original trilogy quite often, I think probably Return of the Jedi was the one I watched most frequently of the three. I don't know why that was, but yet I would watch that quite often.
00:02:34
Speaker
It was a weird VHS box set that we had that had the four movies that had Phantom Menace, New Hope, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi altogether. I don't know why they were packaged in that way. I don't know if maybe the company didn't know that there was going to be another two prequel movies coming out, but I took great enjoyment in looking at the VHS box, which had Darth Vader's face on it and watching those movies. I didn't really see much difference at the time between the original films and the prequels. They kind of all blurred together for me, more so that when the Phantom Menace was out, less when the later movies came out.
00:03:04
Speaker
But I had a good relationship with Star Wars growing up. I didn't really watch other sci-fi properties.
Star Wars' Historical and Cultural Significance
00:03:09
Speaker
I was never a Star Trek person, but I was always very attached to Star Wars. We always had the toys. We always referenced Chewbacca and Vader doing the Vader noise and Chewbacca scream, all that kind of stuff. So I'd say Star Wars was an integral part of me growing up in the movies that I was watching. But what about you?
00:03:25
Speaker
Yeah I would say I'm probably in the same camp with that because Star Wars for me as well was very integral to my upbringing I have to say. At the time I did enjoy the prequels, I loved watching the fight scenes and everything, the flashy effects and I can't remember the first time I actually watched
00:03:46
Speaker
original trilogy but it must have been my dad that introduced me to the original three films because the joke him and I have together is whenever we talk about Star Wars and I always used to say oh yes episode four A New Hope and he would be like what do you mean A New Hope?
00:04:03
Speaker
because he's old enough that he would have seen it in the cinemas he was like well it was known as Star Wars when it came out and of course something that you and I actually found out before we started recording tonight was the fact that it wasn't until 1981 that they actually renamed this film from just Star Wars to A New Hope.
00:04:24
Speaker
So it came through from watching the prequels getting into Phantom Menace and then getting shown all the old ones like as we said The New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi and I was really into it but I have to say see you doing the Benjamin Button approach of watching the prequels first with the flashy graphics and then going back
00:04:46
Speaker
to the originals even with the remasters, you can definitely tell there's a stark difference in quality and like no wonder because there's nearly 20 years almost between when the original trilogy started versus when the prequels came out so it is almost like Night and Day in some respects
00:05:05
Speaker
but it is interesting as well to see how this film came about because this is something that we will probably dive into much more later on but it's the fact that I think Star Wars probably at the time started as just another generic
00:05:22
Speaker
sci-fi film. It wasn't really so much that it was going to be, I mean I think obviously they hoped it was going to be the next thing but when I was doing my research I found out that of course George Lucas and all the Star Wars fans out there will know this off my heart but George Lucas originally wanted to adapt
00:05:40
Speaker
the mini-series Flash Gordon but of course he couldn't get the right so he did a Futurama and they said screw you guys I'm gonna make my own series with robots and samurais with laser swords but this film was quite interesting because do you know much about I mean obviously from a history perspective you'll know but do you know how negative the landscape was at the time this film came out because I was quite surprised it's not something I really thought of
00:06:09
Speaker
Because I don't want to start off the episode by saying, Andrew, do you want to talk about the Vietnam War? I was going to say, we're kind of getting into the Cold War in this discussion, aren't we? There was certainly a lot of fear at the time with nuclear warfare, the Cold War, and the war in Vietnam had just concluded, I believe, when A New Hope came out. And the Civil Rights Movement was kind of ongoing as well, I believe, at the time. There was still a lot going on, particularly in America, around the period that this film came out that had people very tense.
00:06:39
Speaker
because there were a handful of sci-fi films that had come out at the time but I don't think they were as popular or obviously from retrospect we know that now but things like Planet of the Apes and 2001 Space Odyssey you know things like that although they were getting fairly decent incomes and everything you know it wasn't the same as what
00:07:04
Speaker
Star Wars would reach and I feel as if this kind of links to something that we've talked about before and I can't believe I'm making this comparison but like in terms of the way we used to look at superhero films or video game films because sci-fi wasn't really as well respected in that regard. It was all Flash Gordon robots and
00:07:26
Speaker
these are swords and things you know there wasn't really a identity to glue it together and it's safe to say that up until Lucas came along there wasn't really a strong identity around sci-fi was there? I mean there were obviously iconic franchises like Star Trek and things like that but in terms of the big blockbusters and cinema there wasn't really the one key example was there?
00:07:52
Speaker
No, yeah, you mentioned Flash Gordon, which of course was a big inspiration behind it. And that was probably like the main science fiction property that people would know of apart from my Star Trek knowledge is very poor. I don't know when Star Trek, the original series came out, but I imagine it was probably around a similar time to this in the 1960s, 66. So 10 years prior, the motion picture though, didn't come out until 79 after these films. And we didn't get Wrath of Khan until even after China, the Jedi finished.
00:08:18
Speaker
That's actually really surprising. Yeah, it took 13 years for the first movie and 15 years for the first good movie. Well, you're not wrong. That is a discussion for another day. I've not even seen them. I'm just parroting what I've heard. I mean, as someone who has seen them, Wrath of Khan is good. The first one is OK. But again, I'd have to rewatch it thoroughly so that all the William Shatner fans don't come to my house and break my windows again. But that's another story.
00:08:48
Speaker
but it did seem as if beyond that there wasn't really a film like Star Wars and I know that sounds like such a PR kind of phrase because I was mentioning this to you. I was watching the documentary for these films Empire of Dreams and I would wholeheartedly recommend any Star Wars fans and you know just anyone
00:09:10
Speaker
interested in the series who hasn't seen this documentary. It's on Disney Plus so feel free to go watch it but it was interesting to see the struggles, the trials, the tribulations that George Lucas went through to actually get these films made, you know, between studio interference, between costume malfunctions and prop
Star Wars' Production Challenges and Success
00:09:32
Speaker
breakdowns and things like that. It was actually really surprising to see how much of a struggle this film was to actually make
00:09:39
Speaker
and then they had to go back and re-edit it and re-edit it, which after a minute as a podcaster, I'm not going to lie, I sympathise. Funny enough, coming from that same documentary I had mentioned before there about Planet of the Apes and 2001 Space Odyssey, the fact that they only earned about 16 and 24 million dollars, respectively, apparently,
00:10:01
Speaker
which that's what a lot of the people who were getting interviewed on the documentary were saying things like even though these are considered some of the top tier sci-fi films very iconic films they weren't earning as much money at the time yeah like don't get me wrong 16 and 24 million dollars that's
00:10:19
Speaker
still a lot of money. But in terms of financial success for these types of albums, it didn't reach the same heights as Star Wars. And I can't remember off the top of my head how much the original had earned, but it was certainly a heck of a lot more than that. But it is definitely a documentary I would recommend people to check out.
00:10:38
Speaker
Yeah it is interesting to see that despite all of these setbacks and things like that that George Lucas decided yeah you know what I'm gonna still make this film because apparently it was meant to be the one film wasn't it and then of course they had to split it up because it was way too long and I don't think the world was ready for a four hour George Lucas Snyder cut kind of thing.
00:11:04
Speaker
It might have been a better movie because at that point he still had people that said no to him. It's possible that he would have had a bit more, a bit less of George Lucas' George Lucasness about the final part of the movie. Oh, we'll get onto that, especially with the special editions. Yeah, I have things to say about that for sure.
00:11:21
Speaker
But I mean, see, considering what we could have got with these films. And again, I know all the Star Wars fans out there will be rolling their eyes going, oh, we know this information that some of the stuff or rather some of the changes they made were absolutely crazy. Luke Skywalker, of course, he was going to be called Luke Starkiller, I think. He was going to be a 60 year old general of one boy and Han was going to have green skin and gills. I genuinely had to rewind that part of the documentary where I was like,
00:11:51
Speaker
No, no. He wasn't going to be a fishman, surely, but apparently he was. And thank Christ they never went along with that because I genuinely think I would have killed the whole film. As she said, thank God that we got the film that we did. But see on that note, while we jump into hyperspace and just see what makes this trilogy so good as well as maybe some of its flaws. Don't tell me the flaws. And on that note, we'll be right back after these odd, I mean, messages.
Podcast Promotions and Star Wars' Cultural Phenomenon
00:12:21
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime and general interest. Previously on Chatsunami, we've analysed what makes a good horror game, conducted a retrospective on Pierce Brosnan's runs James Bond and listened to us take deep dives into both the Sonic and Halo franchises.
00:12:40
Speaker
Also, if you're an anime fan, then don't forget to check us out on our sub-series, Chatsunani, where we dive into the world of anime. So far, we've reviewed things like Death Note, Princess Mononoke, and the hit Beyblade series. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, and all big podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:13:02
Speaker
Grab your popcorn and prepare to watch some movies with us. We're Seismic Cinema. I'm Colin. I've probably not seen it. Paul's watched it in the wrong order. And I'm James and I've probably written an essay on it. And that's Seismic Cinema. We believe in the power of escapism. So let's talk about why this series is just so darn iconic because we might as well get out with the positives first of all. So I'm going to turn it on you, Andrew.
00:13:26
Speaker
Because as we were talking about before, the fact is that Star Wars, although a lot of people did not expect this to be a hit, it surprisingly made an impact, didn't it? And by that I'm of course referring to the first film. Yeah, I mean they all really made quite an impact in different ways, numerous ways.
00:13:46
Speaker
I mean, I can't say having not grown up in the 70s and 80s, what the feeling at the time was around those films. But the fact that adjusting for inflation, A New Hope is the second highest grossing blockbuster ever after Gone with the Wind, that shows it was such a big deal at the time. Because I mean, you're not really getting those numbers from re-releases in the 90s and 2000s. That's solid numbers you're getting from the 70s.
00:14:09
Speaker
probably early 80s. It was such a huge important movie for that. And you can see why because it introduced such interesting concepts with what was semi limited resources. I mean, it went over budget so quickly that they had to kind of just improvise and the improvisations works so well. I mean, if you look at something, say like Doctor Who from that time where the aliens and the monsters and the dashboards of the fancy computers all look very tacky and silly, George Lucas managed to, I'm creating George Lucas maybe a bit too much of this because it was a huge team that helped him and worked on this.
00:14:38
Speaker
but managed to show such impressive sci-fi concepts within practical effects in ways that looked believable. It's somewhat overshadowed now by the fact that he keeps throwing CGI bits in to compensate where he was like, I wish I could have had that at the time. And so now I have the technology, so I'm gonna add that in, which I don't like as much, but I will get to that a bit later.
00:14:57
Speaker
The movies themselves, they were so impressive, so visually interesting. The story itself is relatively basic, but it's a fun ride. You enjoy the characters, Luke can be a bit whiny, but it's a fun kind of dynamic with him, Han, and Leia, and obviously Chewbacca, and C-3PO, and R2-D2. I was gonna say, is that Namco got burnt a crisp?
00:15:17
Speaker
you're in the corner like, get over it. Well, he's not even whining about that though, he's just whining about other shit. Yeah, true, true. No, no, I'm with you there, hard to say. Yeah, it's interesting what you touched on there when you said it's such a basic story, because I feel as if that's how the story is so timeless with audiences, especially in the past and the future. This is a story that compared to modern Star Wars, which I found really fascinating, compared to what came after it,
00:15:47
Speaker
is the fact that when you look at the new stuff there's a lot of, to quote Revenge of the Sith, I can't believe I'm quoting this, there are heroes on both sides where it's like very morally ambiguous and oh some people are just acting because they think that they're doing it for the betterment of their cause and vice versa. No no no, in this film, or rather the whole trilogy, there is none of that.
00:16:15
Speaker
the empire are evil, the rebellion are 100% the good guys in this and it's kind of refreshing I have to say. Like I don't think it would work if they kept that storytelling aspect because I know George Lucas very much took influence as we said from things like Flash Gordon but also surprisingly a lot of things like mythology
00:16:39
Speaker
And you know in those very old stories you've got the very much black and white narrative, you've got the hero, you've got the villain to be slain. There is that development in certain characters like Darth Vader for example where he starts to shift spoilers from
00:16:55
Speaker
the dark side and then become a little bit good by the end or rather redeem himself by the end but for the most part it is refreshing to see that it is just such a basic story and I mean that in all the best ways but something that I noticed and I don't know if you noticed this as well do you not think that A New Hope feels a very much more like a standard sci-fi film if that makes sense like it hadn't really found its footing yet
00:17:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's fair. It has the whole boy discovering his greatness and then traveling to defeat the bad guys. But I mean, I mean, I may be on the wrong kind of idea with this, but I think Star Wars almost coined that kind of trope. I think a lot of films since can be attributed to that storyline that's particularly A New Hope set about.
Universal Appeal and Representation in Star Wars
00:17:41
Speaker
It may be that that's been a trope way before then, but that's whenever I see it in movies and other stories, that's kind of where I think they're pulling it from. But yeah.
00:17:49
Speaker
I think it was a bit harsh for me to say a basic story because I do think that there are elements there that create a template for future stories to follow. Yeah, it's very much the hero's journey type of story. As you said, it's the main character trying to find himself.
00:18:04
Speaker
and his place in the world and then becoming the hero that he needs to be and something that i think is quite interesting as well and it's done with a lot of trilogies and i can't remember the official name for it but it's like the three act
00:18:20
Speaker
structure in storytelling where it's the first film, as the title suggests, A New Hope. It is very much the positive one. By the end of it, the heroes win and everything and they are absolutely over the moon that they have triumphed over this evil empire, but then of course an empire strikes back as the name suggests. This is where the characters are at their lowest point.
00:18:43
Speaker
and despite that they think okay we're gonna push on and everything and then by Return of the Jedi that's the triumphant end where it basically picks up again, no I'm not gonna lie. Then of course all evil is gone which we know in hindsight that's obviously not the case, that's not how evil empires crumble.
00:19:03
Speaker
If you cut off the head, then you've still got the rest of the body to deal with. But, you know, as a story and like a make-believe one, because I have to say, whether it's interviews with George Lucas or some of the actors, they do kind of emphasise that this is, I wouldn't say primarily for children,
00:19:21
Speaker
it's very much in the sense that it's accessible to all audiences. Although George Lucas himself has said that these films are for children, I wouldn't so much say that they could be applicable to just children, if you know what I mean. There's a lot of dark moments.
00:19:38
Speaker
and these films and then again it was made in the 70s so you know it was a different time but yeah would you say that it's universal appeal is what makes it so timeless. I mean universal in terms of the demigod ethics that it appeals to. Yeah I think that there is a lot of things that it manages to hit that allows it to continue to be interesting. I mean I know Star Wars at the time wasn't received super well but
00:20:02
Speaker
female audience but there was a strong female character in there of Leia and there was a lot of comedy for us of an older audience to appreciate and a lot of cute fun things for kids to enjoy so I do think that it was very accessible for a lot of audiences.
00:20:18
Speaker
audiences to be able to appreciate. And I think that did help it massively, I think as well, just it being such a unique property with such an intriguing ending that left it open for like, Oh, what's gonna happen? Where are we gonna find out more about this character? Are they gonna save the galaxy? There's so many things left unanswered in the end of the first movie. It seemed like, yeah, they love the Death Star, they made like a huge dent in his empire, but there's still so much more to do. The bad guys were still alive. What happens now?
00:20:42
Speaker
Yeah, because it's weird to see what Star Wars has become nowadays, where every single character, every single extra background, CGI, a combination has a backstory and things, which I feel is off on the one hand.
00:20:58
Speaker
kind of an endearing thing and it's not something that I see with a lot of sci-fi franchises, but at the same time I feel as if it goes a little bit over the top at times. Especially with, you know, the guy in the cantina that gets his arm chopped off, the guy with like the mixed up nose. Don't look into his legends background or anything. It is horrific. The backstory. Well he's wanted in like seven star systems, so I'm not surprised.
00:21:25
Speaker
Oh, he wasn't kidding about that. I genuinely thought that was all bluster and he's pretending to be a big badass. No, no, no, no. He is a horrible man. I think Obi-Wan didn't go far enough when they swung at him with the lightsaber. That's all I'm saying.
00:21:40
Speaker
is horrific but that's the thing though about this franchise that nowadays obviously there's Wikipedia, a picture out to Wikipedia and other databases that compile all of this information and you know you can practically find a character about really anybody but I suppose back then you had your imagination. Again it was so surprising that for a film like this because as I said when you watch this it's
00:22:05
Speaker
Not one of those films that I have to say you would initially expect to have taken off, but at the same time, as you said, you and I are both very young. We are not children of the 70s at all. We were born after the Cold War, okay? We're not born during the Cold War. Despite what everyone seems to think. Despite what the rumours are telling you. Don't worry, the Red Panda propaganda department is on it, don't you buddy?
00:22:31
Speaker
Oh good, try saying that three times. The Red Panda Scare. Exactly. I have to say, the guy who does all my artwork for the podcast, he's not going to like all these ideas I'm throwing at him. Can you incorporate communism in some way? More communism, give him a mustache, let's see.
Star Wars' Influence on Merchandising and Media
00:22:48
Speaker
But the fact was though, that as I was saying there, A New Hope was so optimistic in its storytelling and I have to say,
00:22:55
Speaker
kind of jumping a bit ahead because next week of course we will be talking about the very contentious sequel trilogy and how there was a lot of nihilism, there was a lot of negativity through that but when you compare it to what the original trilogy brought to this table, I mean it was so popular that, and again this is a tale as old as time in terms of misunderstanding how popular something's going to be, but have you heard about the
00:23:21
Speaker
toy situation for Star Wars when it came out. In what context? The money side of it, you mean? No more. They were so taken off guard with how popular this was going to be that they didn't make any toys for the film. So what they did instead was they gave these kids cardboard boards and they're like, you hold on to that and then you can redeem it next year for
00:23:45
Speaker
So all these kids were getting just cardboard sheets saying oh you'll get a toy soon of Han Solo or look and things like that and yeah they weren't gonna get it. We Jimmy of the 70s had to play with his cardboard.
00:24:01
Speaker
The interesting thing about the toys though as well is the image rights. So when the movie was in production, a lot of the actors were told like, Hey, we don't have a huge budget for this. Would you like to be paid a small fee as part of this or a relatively small fee as part of this? And then you'd also get the merchandising money from toy sales and other Star Wars related bits.
00:24:23
Speaker
And some of the actors said, no. Alec Guinness, for one, was like, no, this film sounds like nonsense. I'm just doing this for a paycheck. It's not going to do very well. And so does this guy with the paycheck. But some of them said, yeah, don't pay me that much now. I'll take toy sales. One of them in particular was Anthony Daniels, who plays C-3PO. And he continually makes so much money to this day on like residuals from toy sales.
00:24:46
Speaker
see i have heard about the c3po thing but i didn't realize it was about the toys that is actually incredible and to be honest smart thinking from him that is 4d chess right there or whatever that chess is today playing star wars imagine
00:25:01
Speaker
a series being that popular though, Star Wars wasn't even like a household name at the time and yet somehow it went from just being, oh it's the new blockbuster coming out to something that is just so ingrained into pop culture that other franchises parody them, they take homage from it, you know you've got the obvious ones like Spaceballs and even Family Guy of all things, they did the whole trilogy as a parody
00:25:27
Speaker
which I have to say is surprisingly not too bad. As we said, the story is timeless. The effects are timeless. Well, the practical effects are timeless. We'll just pull the blaster out and say Greedo did nothing wrong and talk about the special editions because I feel as if we've been teetering on the edge here. Yeah, we have been sort of touching on them already in our discussion, but
00:25:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's unfortunate because you kind of understand that George Lucas had this vision that he wanted in the 1970s to be able to show that they didn't have a technology for or the budget for at the time. And so he now says like, I have 12 quadrillion dollars, and we have better technology now. I want to try and change it so people can see how I wanted Star Wars to be from the very beginning. And so he adds in these CGI moments, which
00:26:16
Speaker
are so jarring in this movie because I watched these on Disney Plus, which of course has all the updated special effects that Lucas added in. You'll just have like a stormtrooper randomly riding a lizard in the background. You're like, why is that stormtrooper on a lizard? What is the need for that? That seems so silly. And then you'll have just other random aliens around. You'll have just like spaceships around. The two most jarring ones for me, I felt were both in Return of the Jedi. Oh, I know exactly what you're going to pick up here.
00:26:43
Speaker
So in the very beginning of Return of the Jedi, you had this scene in Jabba's palace where this band was playing, which originally was Slob Shiddo and the blue guys, what the fuck it was called, what's the blue dude called again? Max Reebo or something.
00:26:57
Speaker
Max Rebo and the Rebo band or something. So you had like Max Rebo and the Rebo band in the original and he was like a classic. Everyone loves this little blue elephant looking dude that plays like a very jazzy looking instrument. But in the remake, I had not realized that he'd done this either had been a long time since I watched it or I hadn't seen this change. But
00:27:14
Speaker
He added in CGI alien singers who were dancing and singing and just really in the face of the camera. It goes on for a while. Maybe it wasn't as long as I think it was, but it felt like it went on for ages. And you had like this long-lipped alien singing and getting face in front of the camera is very kind of fourth wall breaking at times. I was so taken aback. I was like, why has he included this?
00:27:35
Speaker
George, I just want to talk George. Yeah, straight up. Why have you added this to the movie? Because like, there's one thing adding a character in the background just to kind of flesh out what he felt was a little bit empty in terms of a planet needing a bit more things going on, whatever, I don't necessarily agree with it, whatever, but
00:27:50
Speaker
Adding in a new scene that is that ridiculous and takes you out of the movie
George Lucas' Creative Decisions and Technological Contributions
00:27:55
Speaker
to such a degree, like it just seemed like such a bad choice. I don't know why he decided to do it and why no one had enough courage to say to him, George, this looks bad. But yeah, that was the first main one. And the second one was at the very end of the movie.
00:28:07
Speaker
with all the different cities celebrating and you just kind of panned across all the cities. I think every one of them you see in the prequel, the films, but you do not see nearly any of them in these trilogy. I understand it's kind of showing like, oh, the whole galaxy is celebrating like all across the land. Even though you haven't met these places, it shows that the news is far and wide and everyone's so happy that they won, but it doesn't even look that great. To be honest, like the CGI is okay for early 2000s, maybe, but not fantastic.
00:28:35
Speaker
And so it almost has a bit of a blurriness to it. And you hear a stupid, was Jar Jar's race called again? It's like Gungan, actually. You hear a stupid Gungan when it goes to, I assume, is that Coruscant? No, Naboo. You've seen Naboo and you could hear a Gungan. My partner was watching the same with me throughout these whole films. She was not a fan of any of them. She didn't like any of these Star Wars films. But when she heard that, she went, oh God, no, not him again. Is that not supposed to be Jar Jar? Which it makes no sense then. No, it can't be. I'm sure that's meant to be Jar Jar.
00:29:05
Speaker
No, he shot himself in the head. No, that was his dad. Come on, George. His dad, George. Think of your son. And then he just blasts his head. Oh my God, that is an excellent comic. Please, everybody read that instead. But I am 110% with you in those changes. I think the opening is probably why I hate The Return of the Jedi so much.
00:29:25
Speaker
compared to the other problems because see with the other two and I don't know how you feel about this but for the other two like the first one obviously it's the iconic one that's got kind of one or two minor faults but you know what in terms of what is set out to achieve the effects and everything despite the stupid edits for the Han Solo versus Greedo fight where they digitally altered his head
00:29:51
Speaker
centimeter to the side or something like that. You have Greedo Yellie McClunky. I had someone on Twitter today because I put this on Twitter and I said, see if Han Solo hadn't shot first. And the reason this was edited was because George Lucas didn't want to portray Han Solo as like this really ruthless cold-hearted killer. But I was like, you know, if he didn't shoot Greedo first, then we wouldn't have Star Wars.
00:30:16
Speaker
You wouldn't have the destruction of the Death Star. You wouldn't have the Empire Strikes Back. To which, of course, someone replied in cities like the Franz Ferdinand and the Star Wars. And I was like, you know, not wrong.
00:30:28
Speaker
At the same time though, the first one does what it's set out to do and the second one has some minor changes, but it's just, it's exactly like, you know what artists do when they create a perfect picture and then they say, okay, I can touch up this bit. Oh no, I have to touch up this bit and that bit. Because as you said, there's some really stupid moments that you touched on there. One of which is they add more rocks in front of R2D2 and a new hope when he's hiding.
00:30:55
Speaker
and then there's another one where they digitally alter the voice that Obi-Wan Kenobi makes when he's scaring off the Tusken Raiders and it sounds so stupid. It sounds like I'm going whoo rather than you know the really cool deep voice he had before but then going back to Return of the Jedi it feels as if the first two films knew what they wanted to be but then the third film has two sets
00:31:19
Speaker
films within it and I'll have to go back and watch them because I've actually got the DVD versions of these where I've got the original theatrical cut and I've got the well updated ones for the time but as you said if you go into Disney Plus you're getting the 2000 and I think it's 2014
00:31:39
Speaker
version, so the 2011 or 2014 version but whatever the latest version is that he updated and it just feels like two separate films when you watch Return of the Jedi. I hate, this might be a very spicy take, I don't know how you feel but I hate the opening of Return of the Jedi. The title crawl? No, the whole Tatooine thing.
00:31:59
Speaker
Oh, okay, yeah. The whole sequence, I feel as if it's so unnecessary. There's no reason for that all to be in the film. There's no reason why Leia had to be chained up in everything. There's no reason to it. And yet, for some reason that's in the film, and then all of a sudden after that's over, they're like, okay, let's get to the main part of the film. I feel as if, although it's obviously held in high regard, it just seems jarring. And especially, as you said, with the special editions, because have you heard what Darth Vader says at the very end?
00:32:29
Speaker
the no bit. Yeah, that's the one. I can remember if that was added in or if that was originally there because obviously they have the very awkward cringy no at the end of Revenge of the Sith that Darth Vader does. So I don't know if they wanted to be like, oh, it's not actually really dorky. He actually says that in the original movies as well. See, we didn't change anything. This is what he always sounded like.
00:32:49
Speaker
Oh no, 100% did not say it because the outcry of fans at the time when they saw this and they were like, really? Really? Is this what you wanted George? Was this your vision? Honestly, it feels as if, as you said, he just went back and to quote the man himself, he may have gone a wee bit too far in a few places. Which, seeing all seriousness,
00:33:08
Speaker
Considering this is a director that genuinely for his early work and things I cannot praise him enough for the first film especially because the amount of innovation that he brought to the table with his filmmaking and the practical effects they brought and obviously as you were saying as well it's not just George Lucas on his own and a garden shed or something making all these props but the fact that he brought this to the table and
00:33:36
Speaker
It's safe to say probably revolutionised quite a bit of technology that people brought to the table when it came to filmmaking as a whole. One fact that I thought was actually interesting was that I think LucasAr actually used to own Pixar and then they sold them off to Disney. And then Disney bought LucasAr. The circle is complete.
00:33:59
Speaker
buyer now I am the master etc etc. It's not like your own joke here but I feel as if he did such a good job at the very beginning and then as you said he just I don't know he just decided to take it a bit too far. Can you think of any other films that do that? Not that I can think of the top of my head now I can't think of any films that have been retroactively kind of changed. I mean even with the extended edition for Lord of the Rings for example that's amazing
00:34:27
Speaker
be the closest I can think of and even then they didn't go back and I don't know put eagles in the background or Rivendale or added a million more horses for the charge of the rhythm or something. Seeing that note while we slide into the negatives of these films because again I'm probably skipping ahead a bit to say that we're probably going to have a very positive review of these films but while we touch on some negatives
00:34:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. As long as we make that a little sandwich and come back to highlight some of the more positives, because I certainly have things to say. This is our empire strikes back of the criticism. This is the low point of the journey. So strap in. Wait, are you saying empire strikes back is the worst? No, no, no, no. I mean, in terms of this is the low point for our review. Oh, like in terms of the rebellion, like it's the low point of rebellion. Oh, I see. Okay. You see, it's like poetry. It rhymes.
00:35:17
Speaker
There's certainly a few things that I do think were negative that were present even before George Lucas got his grimy billionaire hands all over the editing board. So there are very strange scenes pretty early on, like when C-3PO and R2D2 are escaping in that pod, the ship is leaving and you're the Empire and you've just taken over an enemy ship. A shuttle launches from that ship to like, potentially escape. And you see that and you do like, all right, it's your life form scan. And they scan it like, oh, there's no life forms in there. Where in a world the robots exist?
00:35:45
Speaker
but there's no life form, so it's not a threat. Why wouldn't you just be like, well, there's better to be safe than sorry, let's destroy that ship. It's so panickity and you kind of have to suspend your disbelief, but it does seem very strange that what do they have to lose by not just destroying that ship? Eight more movies, but otherwise, that doesn't really make sense that the Empire would do that. Yeah, there's a lot of easily avoidable moments that the Empire just keep fumbling at. Yeah, that's a rick one.
00:36:08
Speaker
There's a very strange scene as well in The New Hope with Vader interrogating Leia. I don't know if you picked up on this, but it's such a weirdly edited shot of Vader going in, threatening Leia, and a needle being like, oh, we're going to jab you with this needle, Leia. And then Vader leaves the room and the door closes. And you kind of see Leia's horrified face as the door closes. And this scene is only maybe like 30 seconds long. And then it cuts to the rest of the story. And I was like, that's such a weird scene. Why was that even necessary? You spent unnecessary money filming this odd little scene. I don't know. Did you kind of pick up on that?
00:36:38
Speaker
Yeah I think that is probably due to the way that the film is edited. It seemed as if the first cut of this film was very much not really received well so there was a lot of cutting and splicing together and things. There's a whole diluted scene actually where for some reason Luke has trains and Tatooine and I can't remember, I could be wrong here, but I'm convinced it's the same guy that he meets you know just before they do the deck.
00:37:07
Speaker
Well, no, I don't think it's Dak. It might be Bix, maybe? Because Dak's in Empire Strikes Back, I'm sure. Seen out the one that says, I could take on the whole Empire. And it's like, hey, everyone. He's got this guy. Oh, I love those parodies. But he's about to attack the Death Star and he's like, oh, Bix, my long lost friend did everything. And I'm like, who the hell was this guy?
00:37:27
Speaker
He's not been in the film at all, he's not been mentioned. And then he's acting all pally-pally with this random guy. And I think that's because they probably cut and rearranged a lot of the film at the time. But even still, yeah, I know, I totally know what you mean. It just seems like quite a dark scene. And it seems as if they always used needles. I don't know if you picked up on that as well. Because you know when Empire strikes back when they're torturing Han and he's on the kind of moving bed thing and they move him towards these needles and things?
00:37:57
Speaker
What is the Empire's fascination with needles and torture? I mean don't get me wrong, I can see the appeal but it's pretty bad. In a world of force, powers and things like that, it's good to know that needles are still the most threatening thing in the far future.
Dialogue and Acting Challenges in Star Wars
00:38:17
Speaker
Yeah, no, there's a lot of weird scenes like that. Speaking of stilted, do you feel as if the dialogue, and again I know it's the first of its kind, but do you feel as if the dialogue's quite stinted? Yes, the dialogue and the acting in general I found to be a bit strange.
00:38:32
Speaker
at times. I don't think that Mark Hamill is a particularly strong actor. I think his voice acting is very good, but I don't find him to be a particularly good live-action actor. Not just him. There were scenes with lots of other characters that I felt were a little bit awkward and stilted, as you said. And then you had Vader. The poor guy in the Vader suit must have had such limited mobility and had been so uncomfortable because it always looks like he's looking up.
00:38:55
Speaker
in moves in such awkward ways. He's always like shifting very awkwardly. Was there not a thing about that though that he didn't know that he was going to get his voice dubbed over? Yeah, unfortunately he didn't know. To my memory, he didn't know until he watched the movie that James Earl Jones was dubbing over his voice, he thought he was going to be in the movie.
00:39:11
Speaker
I mean, to be fair, though, the guy, of course, we're talking about is David Prowse, which I have to say, you know, he obviously does fantastic work on screen to bring the character to life and everything. But his voice does not match. And again, I don't know if they could have pitched it down, maybe, but yeah. He was from the north of England, wasn't he? Yeah. He wasn't from Newcastle. I think he was from Liverpool or one of those kind of places. Yeah, something like that. And I have to say, compared to James Earl Jones, it is no contest.
00:39:40
Speaker
be honest. You can see why they went for James Earl Jones's voice and David Price's physical stature as it were. It's a good thing they didn't switch them around. I know I do have seen that joke as well. It's a strange one because I know a lot of them were trying to be professional. Alec Guinness of course famously did not enjoy these films and it's quite interesting to see that universally all of the actors all agree that the script
00:40:08
Speaker
wasn't that great in terms of the dialogue because you know you've got Mark Hamill saying that, you've got Alec Goode saying that, you've got Harrison Ford even Carrie Fisher saying nobody speaks like this is very stilted, it's not the best delivery and I can understand in the way why that would be the case because to be honest at the time as we said sci-fi fellow
00:40:30
Speaker
probably weren't as prominent, so if you were trying to deliver a line, you probably thought, I mean, I don't think they did it half-heartedly by any means, but at the same time, I don't think that it would have been easy to make these particular lines stand out. I mean, there's some really weird lines that you can tell
00:40:49
Speaker
You know when sci-fi writers and story creators, when they write a story but their time period seeps into their own story? Something that I messaged you when I was watching the film was it's even they escape the Death Star. There's two instances where Han Solo calls Leia sister and it's obviously a 70s thing and he's like, oh we're not getting tracked sister, not this ship sister, like stop sakes.
00:41:14
Speaker
It's weird. Which is ironic because of the two men on that ship, he's the only one who she's not the sister of. Yeah, I know, ironically. Yeah, that's another weird thing. I think everybody's criticized to death, but the whole, she kisses her brother. Yeah, I don't get that. Looks so chuffed when he's once he's been kissed as well. Like he puts his arm down his back. He's like, yeah, just kissed her. Yeah, exactly. That's what makes it so uncomfortable because people are like, oh no, it wasn't meant like that.
00:41:40
Speaker
And then Return of the Jedi Leia's like, I've always known. Really? Then why did you do that then?
00:41:46
Speaker
What's wrong with you Leia? I feel as if Leia and especially a lot of the other characters in Return of the Jedi are a lot more subdued which feels really weird. I don't know if you've picked up on this as well but especially with Leia, you know in the first one she's quite sassy but still can take care of herself and even in the second one although she obviously gets into trouble with the other characters she still holds her own.
00:42:13
Speaker
but I mean in the third one of course she does that as well but she's just very, as you said, oh I always knew it's the same with Luke because I know technically he's supposed to be a stoic Jedi and it's not until the very end where he has that burst of emotion which I think is one of the better scenes in the film but you know beyond that I feel as if everyone's kind of muted which is weird because it starts off with a giant space slug chaining up his cistern unfreezing Han Solo who was supposed to be dead at that point so
00:42:43
Speaker
I think Harrison Ford wishes he was because he was checked out in that final movie. I think everybody was checked out by the end because this is something that I honestly did not notice and it's something I mentioned before that Alec Guinness who of course is so iconic in this film series as Obi-Wan Kenobi and you know even today when people look at Obi-Wan Kenobi obviously they look at you in McGregor but they can see the influences between the two characters and the portrayals but he actively
00:43:13
Speaker
hated this film and he was professional, that's what everyone seems to say about it. He was such a professional actor and he's such a distinguished actor but in Return of the Jedi there's a scene where he appears as a force ghost. I wasn't on top of his watching a, I think it was a commentary track from Red Letter Media who have covered the films extensively but they were saying why does Obi-Wan Kenobi need a seat if he's a force ghost?
00:43:40
Speaker
I had to pause the video because I was laughing so hard because I had never noticed that before and I know obviously there are scenes where they go interact with things in the physical realm and such but it is such a funny thought that Alec Guinness was just like you know what George I'm not standing on.
00:43:59
Speaker
just gonna sit down as a ghost? No, see, it's a bit like Yoda, because Yoda sits down sometimes when he's a forced ghost. Alec Guinness is actually a muppet. I think someone popped in him so they kept behind him as he's sitting down. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it had to get a body double, especially from the back of his head. Speaking of the forced ghost scene at the end, you have Hayden Christensen now replacing the original actor. Is it Peter Mayhew, did you say? No, Peter Mayhew is Chewbacca, which would also be hilarious.
00:44:29
Speaker
Who's live-action Darth Vader? It certainly wasn't David Prowse. Sorry, that's bad. I shouldn't laugh. Yeah, because he thought he was getting his big scene. So it was Sebastian Shaw who played him. Who played Mascoth Vader. Yeah, Mascoth Vader. Because again, that was one of the other critiques that David Prowse was expecting to be the one that when they pulled off the mask, it would be his head. And yeah.
00:44:55
Speaker
it wasn't. Poor guy. I know, he got shafted at every turn. I feel as if they could have thrown him a bone or something, but no, I think Lucas was just like, screw this guy, yeah. Yeah, screw this guy. But yeah, the hearing conditions and it makes zero sense. I mean, see unless, genuinely, see unless you watch it from the prequels to the original trilogy, then maybe
00:45:17
Speaker
it makes sense but even then that's not the Anakin Skywalker that looks off at these final moments and they also became younger again so it's like can you imagine if they edited out Alec Guinness and instead of being Alec Guinness it was Ewan McGregor. Ewan actually enjoyed these films so that would have made more sense to have him there than Alec Guinness. Yeah I wouldn't be surprised.
00:45:39
Speaker
they just altered them back in but yeah it just that it seems like a very very weird choice and again there's just a lot of weird choices there's a lot of weird dialogue things as well and going back to that do you remember what the and this sounds like such a nerdy thing to be like do you remember what this guy said but
00:45:57
Speaker
Do you remember what the Imperial Officer says? See at the very beginning when the Empire arrives at Hoth and they're trying to evacuate and they've got the ion cannons ready to fire and the Imperial Officer says to the other one, oh there's a rebel transport coming towards us and the guy's like good our first catch of the day and then there's like this awkward silence
00:46:19
Speaker
There was another one like that. There was another in Empire Strikes Back. One of the Empire generals goes, bounty hunters. We don't need their scum. And then there's like an awkward pause and one person goes, yes, sir. But he's like, doesn't sound like he really gives a shit. Yeah, I noticed that as well. And I don't even get why he says it right beside them. It's very rude to get the Empire or the villains, but... Yeah, and like, there's a good chance one of these guys is just gonna kill you now.
00:46:42
Speaker
Yeah, I mean the pink green guy, is that Bosk or Bask? I think it is Bosk, yeah. The big green lizard transition, yeah. He's just like, if I was even saying it, then he just goes, urgh. Why would you mess with this guy? Why would you mess with any of them? Oh, just such a weird, weird scene.
00:46:59
Speaker
There's just so many weird moments that they bring into it. Han is smiling all the time in Return of the Jedi. He just got this weird smirk on his face, just like when he's blind, when he's not blind, just raiding the base on the Ewok planet call again. What indoor?
00:47:14
Speaker
Yeah, he's on Endor and he's got his weird smile on his face. I was kind of wondering, why is he like that? Why has he got this strange look on his face? He didn't do that the rest of them. Yeah, he's always smirking. He feels like a different character, which I find really bizarre. Maybe the carbonite changes you. Maybe, I mean, they was blind and half over. Oh no, sorry, they wasn't. They took it out. At the very beginning, they got his sight back.
00:47:34
Speaker
No, he was blind for a bit because he kept talking about how things were blurry. Because there is that funny scene where he's shooting into the soil like that and Lando's like, if you've got your sight back, he's like, don't worry, I think I'm okay. It's like, aim up, aim up. And he keeps doing like, Boba Fett, Boba Fett. Boba, where's Boba? It feels like a three-stooges sketch.
00:47:52
Speaker
That was very three stages. The fact that Boba Fett gets beaten by an accident is so silly. So can I just say I absolutely hate the way that Luke Skywalker handles a lightsaber at the beginning of the film. He swings that like a baseball bat. I understand why he does it at the very end, because this is something that really baffles me. The fact that George Lucas also took inspiration from Samurai films and things like that. So that's why, although a lot of people
00:48:18
Speaker
people enjoyers do criticise the slower pace. The reason for the fights being so slow paced is because they're based on traditional samurai fights where it is just two people facing off and you know it's almost like the Kendo fighting as well but at the end of the day
00:48:34
Speaker
it's supposed to be slow and methodical and you can see at least in Empire Strikes Back that that shows that Luke is very inexperienced versus Vader who's just like a walking tank with a lightsaber but then you get to
00:48:49
Speaker
getting over it which again I won't go in depth about how stupid a plan it is to not have your weapon on you at the very beginning but yeah the fact that he just gets his lightsaber and the first thing he does is he starts wailing on everybody around him swinging it like a baseball bat and you're like look you do know this is a sacred weapon it's like if a samurai got his katana for the first time and then he started flailing it around going I must
00:49:16
Speaker
questions. There would be slight questions. Chorus Hour's work would have been very different if that's the act. Oh, no wonder. I know. I've actually remembered what I was going to bring up and that something I brought up at the very beginning of
Symbolism and Directorial Considerations in Star Wars
00:49:28
Speaker
this episode. That being the cheery subject of Vietnam.
00:49:31
Speaker
The Vietnam War. Do you know about the correlation between the return of the Jedi and the Vietnam War? I know that George Lucas was kind of basing both the rebellion and the Ewok fighting off of the Viet Cong. Yeah, the fact that the Ewoks, as you said, are supposed to represent the Viet Cong and the Empire are supposed to be America, which I have to admit, I saw a really funny post of someone arguing like that wasn't the case.
00:49:58
Speaker
even though George Lucas has come out in interviews and said that specifically, and what was laughing at was the guy was like, oh, that makes no sense that the e-box are Viet Cong. That would mean the Empire or America. Other people are like, you've got the wrong working, but you've got the right answer.
00:50:15
Speaker
kind of thing. I don't know how I feel in terms of, see if you do it in the broad sense of Evil Empire versus The Little Man and things. I can see what he was trying to get at but I wouldn't say I hate the Ewoks but I find it really, really bizarre that a bunch of Thoris teddy bears were the downfall of the Empire. What are your thoughts on the Ewok question Andrew?
00:50:41
Speaker
I like the Ewoks. I think they're very cute, I think they're fun, and their murder tactics are wonderful. Good job, little guys. Little plucky teddy bears, like Care Bears with spears. It was super messed up in the end when you see them playing bongos with the Stormtrooper helmets. Fortunately, it's just minus sign, it's just the helmet, it's not like decapitated heads. Well, we don't know that. That, we don't know that. I mean, it's the same with Boba Fett. Remember when he picks up his dad's helmet, there's no head that falls in.
00:51:11
Speaker
Yeah, I do wonder, did it fall out already? What's going on there? What did the Ewok do with the heads? That's what we're asking. Yeah, a lot of the bodies in general. What were the Ewoks going to do with Han and Chewbacca and Luke and whatnot before they saw C-3PO?
00:51:26
Speaker
Well, actually, and this is me putting on my nerd glasses here, but did you know there's actually three comics that explore what-if scenarios for the trilogy? Yeah, it's really interesting and I can't remember who published it, but if...
00:51:42
Speaker
anybody out there knows please feel free to leave a comment and let us know because it is great but it's like basically alternatives for A New Hope for Empire and for Return and I think for A New Hope it's what happened if Luke missed the shot on the Death Star and it kind of goes a wee bit crazy. For Empire it's what happens if Luke died at the very beginning so Leia becomes the Jedi figure in the story.
00:52:12
Speaker
killed him. Well, no, he just freezes to death outside. Pan doesn't get him in time. And then the third one is, I can't remember what caused the catalyst, but I think it was that when they gave over C-3PO to Jabba, he ends up getting blown up there. So he's not with them on Endor when they beat the Ewoks.
00:52:33
Speaker
so basically when the walks pop up they attack both the rebellion and the empire. It's really weird because in that version Darth Vader lives but he gets a white suit and he joins the rebellion and Sidious escapes like some kind of General Grievous knockoff. He's like ah curse these kids. It's a really interesting yet very strange what-if scenario but I just wanted to point that out when you were saying what happens if C-3PO wasn't there. It actually is explored in the comics.
00:53:03
Speaker
Fair enough. I learn a new Star Wars thing every day. I wish I saved that for the trivia episodes, but you know what?
00:53:10
Speaker
Every day's a learning day. Now, I know what you mean. The Ewoks have a somewhat strange murder tendency. Something that I also mentioned early on just before we go back to the positives and to wrap up this episode, but do you know who was supposed to direct Return of the Jedi? No, I feel like you should have saved this for the trivia because I have no idea. Turns out it was David Lynch. He just did Dune, or had he done Dune at that point?
00:53:35
Speaker
No, that was 1984, so that was a year after. Which is really bizarre that he went for a project like Dune, but no Return of the Jedi. Oh, so he declined Return of the Jedi? Uh-huh. He got asked and he got taken out to lunch by Lucas and everything, but he said something along the lines of, oh, it made my head spin and everything. And he just didn't like the script at all, which I thought. Oh, but Dune 1984 was A-OK, was it, Lynch? He's a strange, strange guy.
00:54:04
Speaker
an absolute artist but you know you can take that as a positive and a negative at the same
Star Wars' Iconic Elements and Effects
00:54:09
Speaker
time. Yeah I don't quite get you stinking behind that but yeah turns out we could have got David Lynch directing Return of the Jedi and that would have been a significantly different problem no doubt. Yeah that would have been very strange. Would have been amazing but would have been horrifying at the same time. But before we wrap up will we go into the positives?
00:54:28
Speaker
Yeah, I certainly have some fun things to say, things that I thought were very fun about these movies. We talked about the After Effects or added in. I did find it a bit hard sometimes to know what was After Effects and what was sort of then effects, but I did think that generally the effects for the time are very impressive. I did very much enjoy some of the back and forth between the characters even early on, like Luke and C-3PO and R2D2 when
00:54:49
Speaker
looks like repairing them. I thought that that was a very fun kind of chemistry going on all the back and forth between them. I thought that was quite fun. Grandma Tarkin is such an interesting character. I do kind of wish we'd gotten more time with because the actor is brilliant. He I think is probably the best actor in all three films, possibly the entire franchise. I don't know what your thoughts are on Tarkin's actor.
00:55:09
Speaker
Oh yeah, Peter Cushing. He is brilliant. He is fantastic as an actor. And I know that's like same water as Wet, but just between his line delivery and I'm actually surprised that Lucas got so many high profile acts.
00:55:24
Speaker
actors at the time, Peter Cushing, Alec Guinness, because Alec Guinness has done a lot. I think one of his famous ones before this was Bridge Over the River Kwai, and I mean he's done so many other iconic ones, but these Shakespearean actors as such are rather very traditional actors. Yeah, Peter Cushing is absolutely fantastic and I
00:55:45
Speaker
feel as if
00:56:15
Speaker
pure Cushing fantastic the character himself is so interesting because he clearly has control over Vader he's the only one that you can tell has authority over Vader apart from maybe the Emperor but who you've not really met at that point and so this guy who's choking out someone else in the room with magic energy all of a sudden is totally like stop it and he does he wields such good
00:56:36
Speaker
great authority and influence over the Empire, over Vader, such an intriguing character and so it's such a shame that we don't get to see more of him later because I believe does he die in the Death Star explosion? Yeah, because he's stupid as fine that the catch is up to him. It's the guy who comes up to him and he's like, um, Grand Moff Tarkin, maybe we should get to your shuttle and he's like, what, you know, movement of triumph? It's like, yeah, you should probably get to that shuttle and yeah, as you said, he dies horribly on the Death Star.
00:57:05
Speaker
So yeah, so Tarkin is definitely a huge highlight for me in New Hope, and I think that he stands out as one of my favorite characters in the franchise. Jumping over to Empire Strikes Back, I love the Hoth scenes. I think that they're so interesting. I love the Snow Planet. The Yeti attack is a little bit silly. My partner described it as peak when we saw it, but the stuff with the Tontons and Han having to cut one open to put Luke in it was very interesting. The attack on Hoth with the AT-ATs or Imperial Walkers, however you want to recall them.
00:57:33
Speaker
Did you grow up with them as AT-ATs or ATs? Or did you call them Imperial Walkers? I called them AT-ATs, I think, yeah. When my brother grew up, he preferred to them as the Imperial Walkers. I don't know at what point that changed. Space camels, yeah. Yeah, they were space camels, you're right. But the sort of Rogue Squadron taking them down with the cables is such an iconic scene. And if you ever played, did you ever play Star Wars Rogue Squadron on the GameCube? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I still get flashbacks every so often. I wake up at 3 AM and I cold sweat going, oh no, I crashed into the lake.
00:58:02
Speaker
Yeah. Three times, three times. It certainly triggered memories, whether there was positive or negative, I can't truly say, but watching that scene in the movie, it just kind of reminded me completely of those games. And I had such a nostalgic hit that I hadn't thought of in such a long time. There's a scene where one of the Empire vessels takes evasive action and like the whole thing stutters and everyone falls over and made me laugh. I don't know if you had any kind of reaction to it.
00:58:28
Speaker
I remember there was a weird moment in Return of the Jedi where the A-Wine crashes into the command bridge of the Super Star Destroyer. I feel like there should have been a backup command centre and this is me showing my nerd colours here and granted the series came later but even on the Starship Enterprise they had two command centres on that damn ship so I feel like
00:58:54
Speaker
On a ship of that size they should have had it, but they think it's really weird to see when it crashes. The two guys jump off to try and obviously avoid it, but there is that slow motion almost. I'm expecting it to fade to white and be like, and that's how Imperial Officer 1 and 2 died. I have an ad memoriam after it. I was like, what the hell?
00:59:15
Speaker
And then, just so finally on my side, is Yoda. He's such a fun character. Unfortunately, knowing that it's Frank Oz, I can't not hear both Miss Piggy and Fozzy the Bear in his voice. But Yoda is so much fun. He's such a chaotic little guy. I love muppity chaotic Yoda. Some of his lines are so much fun. Like, do or not, there is no try. It's fantastic. I love that.
00:59:37
Speaker
just like this strange permit that holds this sort of great power and you just have to underestimate him is so cool. Just touching on what you were saying especially for Empire Strikes Back is that I feel as if it is just so iconic in the way that it's shot and the way that the set pieces are introduced because one of my favourite locations of all time is Cloud City. I don't know why but of all, maybe it's because I played the Battlefront games quite a bit
01:00:04
Speaker
bit when I was younger but I always found the whole city above the clouds and everything was just such a cool concept. I like yourself a loved heart. That's the thing though with this film especially and no surprise it is my favourite of the three but it's just split up into three
01:00:21
Speaker
very iconic locations. You've got the Battle of Hoth, you've got the Dagobah scenes where Luke has to find himself and then of course you've got Floyd City or Bespin if you want to get technical by the end of it and it's just so cool to see. And I have to admit the first film kind of has a similar thing, you know you've got Tatooine before Tatooine became a bit boring and hackneyed but let's look into that in this episode.
01:00:46
Speaker
you have the Death Star of course and then you've got the amazing battle at the end. It is probably one of my favourite space battles in film I would say. The whole trench run and the Death Star. Porkins as well. Pour one out for Porkins. I can hold it!
01:01:02
Speaker
but absolutely fantastic and it's just so iconic and even though I'm not a big fan of Return of the Jedi, as I said, I do admit that at least the locations are iconic. The fact that you've got Tatooine again with the very city underbelly that you wouldn't
01:01:18
Speaker
really see as much all over the first one except for the cantina of course but you've got the hot cartel then you've got the slight detour to Dagobah but then of course you go to Endor or again being specific the forest moon of Endor and there's one fan writing down notes here
01:01:36
Speaker
but I do think it is iconic. And again, it goes without saying, repeating what you brought up in the last episodes, the music is iconic, you've got the themes that are just absolutely fantastic. You've got the original theme song, you've got the, oh I can't remember what it's called, it's like the Force theme I think they call it, or the Twin Suns theme. Whatever plays when Luke
01:02:04
Speaker
looks out to the suns and everything. One thing I do want to point out as well that I actually really appreciate in this film as well is just how I suppose emotional might be a bit of a stretch to say but just how much of an emotional core it can have at moments. Going back to
01:02:22
Speaker
to Return of the Jedi, there's that very famous scene where Vader's fighting against Luke and at the very end Luke just absolutely loses it and starts wailing on him and just slamming his lightsaber into him and getting really aggressive and then realising the errors of his ways is something
01:02:40
Speaker
that I feel as if it wasn't really explored as much in the later films that came out. There's a lot of anger and shouting and things, but there wasn't so much that time to slow down with the characters and have those character progressions and character development. So as clunky as the dialogue is at times, as clunky as some of the weird
01:03:02
Speaker
scenes they put in where, at least at the same time, there was a vision there. That's all I'll say. Maybe they kind of lost a way for the third one, but at least for the first two, definitely. I feel as if there was an absolute vision of what they wanted to accomplish and other things changed along the
Star Wars' Lasting Impact on Pop Culture
01:03:20
Speaker
way. I think it's just amazing what George Lucas achieved. And granted, you know, we can meme on him, we can make fun of what he put in.
01:03:27
Speaker
to the films that I leave to date, but we can't deny that he made such an impact in the science fiction scene. No, I think you're completely right. I think, and as you said, regardless of the kind of impression of him now and the sort of edits he's made to these films and the subsequent films that he made that did not live up to the expectations and the standard that was previously set, he still created three very important movies in cinema that whatever you think of the
01:03:52
Speaker
Try the Jedi, it's still a very iconic film, it has a lot of very important moments in the science fiction and in cinema in general and what he has inspired has gone beyond the films that he made. Obviously I don't think that they really expected it to get as popular as it has now but the fact is that Star Wars now has been so ingrained into pop culture, it's been so ingrained into whenever we're
01:04:17
Speaker
thinking about films and people will say, oh, is it just like Star Wars? Because I mean, I'm sitting in my, well, the Chatsunami Studios to not break the immersion. And right behind me, I have got a massive Lego model of the Imperial Star Destroyer, as well as a couple other models for like
01:04:36
Speaker
Baby Yoda and other characters. I'm even looking at a Lego Yoda in the court, just a regular Yoda in the corner. And the fact is that it's just amazing how even nowadays, whether we'll get into the very infamous sequel trilogy next week, but whether you love Star Wars or hate it, you cannot deny how influential these films have been. And it is absolutely amazing
01:05:00
Speaker
and even when I went to Twitter and I reached out to a lot of people to say what did you think of the original trilogy and things and I have to say I got a lot of jokey responses from the Podpack group saying but very much you know they were all right haha but there was one response that roasted out and it's from a podcast called Real Home News and when I was asking them
01:05:23
Speaker
What do you think of the original trilogy? They said that they believe the original Star Wars trilogy was my first trilogy I've ever seen in my life. My dad introduced me to Star Wars when I was very young and this has shaped me personally. Hands down, I will forever find the original three movies of Star Wars to be the very best.
01:05:43
Speaker
bar none and that is actually something quite interesting as well that Star Wars is a cross-generational franchise. Years in the future we'll be introducing our kids no doubt to Star Wars and the wide and wonderful world that they are going to experience and everything and the fact that people who saw this film in the 70s and the 80s that they can share it with their children, they can share it with younger audiences, it's just absolutely fantastic.
01:06:12
Speaker
I mean, don't get me wrong, Star Wars isn't the first franchise to do something like that. Again, going back to Lord of the Rings, that's obviously been around for far longer than Star Wars and there's a lot of other franchises that have been around longer. But at the end of the day, you cannot deny that this series has made such a significant impact. And these are the three films that, whether you love them or hate them, has been the backbone of science fiction and pop culture. And without it, here's the final question for you. Do you think
01:06:42
Speaker
sci-fi would be as prevalent without these films. Do you think it would have been as prominent with mainstream audiences? No, I don't think that there would have been as much mainstream interest in science fiction
01:06:58
Speaker
had it not been for Star Wars. The Star Trek interest was still present, but even now, Star Trek is still kind of seen to be like the sci-fi nerd kind of option, whereas Star Wars feels a lot more accessible to a mainstream audience. And so I think that without Star Wars, there may have been something that filled that gap and that we talk about now, but I don't think that we would have had the level of knowledge even of sort of science fiction terminology had it not been for Star Wars.
01:07:26
Speaker
Yeah because the ironic thing is nowadays Star Trek seems to be trying to pivot towards more of a Star Wars approach. More action. Yeah they're trying to be more action-oriented, they're trying to throw in swear words and be like oh look we are super cool and don't get me wrong Star Wars doesn't really swear except for the odd hell. Here on
01:07:47
Speaker
there, but yeah, it's weird to think that Star Trek went from a very slow burner of a series in comparison to Star Wars, I will admit that, but it's like a completely different beast and I 100% agree with you in that sense that although I love Star Trek, I think it's a fantastic series in its own right. I don't think it
01:08:09
Speaker
would have had the same appeal because it's still got that stigma of people being very defensive about it, quite gatekeeping and there's still barriers there that I think normal fans of sci-fi would maybe be a bit intimidated by or think
01:08:26
Speaker
I don't know. So the fact that Star Wars almost acts as that bridge and again whether you like Star Wars or you think it's too fantastical and silly because I'm not saying Star Wars is hard sci-fi if anything it's more like science fantasy but at the same time it's enough of a bridge to gap between people's introductions into the genre and
01:08:50
Speaker
And yeah, hopefully a chance for people to foster that interest.
Concluding Thoughts and Future Discussions
01:08:55
Speaker
On that note, before we wrap up, is there anything else you want to bring up? No, I think that we've covered our bases, our star bases on that one. It was very interesting kind of revisiting these films again after it's been quite a while for me and we now move on to the sequel series. So excited to revisit that and hear what you think of it. Well, I say I can't wait, but I feel as if it's the one that I'm probably more
01:09:19
Speaker
to revisit but I feel as if it's like a necessary thing that we have to revisit it because if we were just revisiting it in terms of what we remember from it then we'd probably be doing a disservice both to our lovely Pandolorian listeners out there and also to the Star Wars fans listening as well but that is of course a trilogy for another episode and we will be back next week with
01:09:45
Speaker
our thoughts on the final trilogy that has come out and of course being the Disney sequel trilogy so that'll be fun to explore but once again Andrew thank you so much for yeah once again jumping into this galaxy far far away.
Closing Promotions and Famous Moments
01:09:59
Speaker
Yeah well thank you so much for having me for inviting me on again and it was fun to talk about. And of course before we wrap up where can these lovely Mandalorian listeners find your content?
01:10:09
Speaker
Well, you can listen to some of my other episodes on Chatsunami. We've explored lots of different topics over the past couple of years now. So please follow Chatsunami to listen to those. Don't listen to any of the ones that don't have me. They're not as good, but definitely listen to the ones I did. Yeah, for sure. Just kidding. All of Chatsunami's content is wonderful. I do recommend listening to some of his other episodes if you've not already.
01:10:30
Speaker
You can also find me on Twitter slash X at green shield 95 or through my other handle where I run our other podcast, stop, drop and roll initiative. That's an SDRI pod on Twitter. And with stop, drop and roll initiative myself, Satsanami, Martin McAllister and robotic battle toaster run a D and D role-playing podcast. So I do recommend checking that out wherever good podcasts are found. And yeah, is there anything else you want to plug?
01:10:54
Speaker
Yeah, I just wondered yesterday if you want to listen to more episodes featuring the fantastic Andrew, of course. We have done a number of episodes together, of course, including a number of themed months. That's very true, yeah. We've done Simpsons Month, we've done Spider-Man Month, we've done Lord of the Rings Month. I was on an episode of Terminator Month. And Halo Month as well. I was on an episode of Halo Month, that's true. And I can't wait for the many months that we've got coming up, both this year and, yeah, next year.
01:11:24
Speaker
We're planning well in advance for our themed months, so you can look forward to those for many years to come. Oh, absolutely. And yeah, if you want to catch more of those episodes, you of course can catch us on our website, chatsandami.com, as well as all good podcast apps. And I also want to thank our Pandora and Patrons, Robotic Battles hosted in Sonya. Thank you so, so much as always for supporting the show.
01:11:46
Speaker
And if you want to become a Pandalorian patron for as little as £1 a month, then you can indeed check out exclusive content over at patreon.com forward slash chat tsunami. So you're getting early access content, exclusive content, bloopers, behind the scenes, my daily ramblings for legal reasons that last month's a joke, but you know, you're getting a lot of exclusive content. So as I said, patreon.com forward slash chat tsunami.
01:12:11
Speaker
Feel free to check it out. Until next time, thank you all so, so much for listening. Stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, remember that Hans shot first.