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Troop Beverly Hills- It's a Van Runkle
28 Plays10 days ago
Rich people have feelings too. That's the core message of this movie. The other core message is that clothes are fun! They are meant to be enjoyed! And learning to survive in the wild wherever you are, even if that's one of the richest places in the USA. Please watch this movie if you haven't, you won't regret it
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098519/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_6_nm_2_in_0_q_troop
Music: Cassette Deck by Basketcase
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Hot Set' Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
00:00:21
Speaker
Hello, friends. Welcome back. We are here. we are making our way through space and time as humans and also in the movies. And we have been kind of working through the 20th century, ah you know, loosely. And today we have arrived at, I think, maybe one of the slightly more and unexpected or not super obvious choices for this season ah that I unilaterally put on the schedule without consulting with my lovely co-host because I wanted to talk about this movie and I didn't really care what she felt about that.
00:01:03
Speaker
that
Focus on 'Troop Beverly Hills'
00:01:05
Speaker
So today we are talking about the 1989, I would say cult minor cult movie. ah It was a big flop at the time. ah The 1989 film Troop Beverly Hills. And I'm going to read this little one sentence ah blurb on IMDb about the movie. And it is...
00:01:32
Speaker
A soon-to-be-divorced Beverly Hills socialite is determined to prove her husband and to prove to her husband and herself that she can finish what she starts out to do by becoming a den mother to a troop of Beverly Hills Girl Scouts. Which is actually untrue because they are wilderness girls. Yeah, i get it right. Absolutely not affiliated with the Girl Scouts of America. Don't get it twisted. This is a completely
Personal Memories and TV Broadcasts
00:02:02
Speaker
different organization. Any similarities is purely coincidental. Legal, legal, legal. Allegedly, allegedly.
00:02:10
Speaker
um yeah so, okay, this movie... Wow, this movie. um i have seen this movie probably, I don't know, at least a dozen times. um I think when we sort of intro'd it last time, mentioned that I had a VHS copy of the movie that was taped off of TV. And you said that you remembered that it was one of those movies that they played on TV all the time. It was on TV
Fashion in 80s Films and Cultural Reflections
00:02:38
Speaker
all the time. Poltergeist. This. Yeah. That's it. That was television. Oh, my God. Like a TBS afternoon. Mannequin 2. Wow.
00:02:48
Speaker
Which i do think the mannequin movies came up when I was like looking for movies about clothes, which I was like, I don't know. Well, they have a passion. They had, I think, Mannequin 2, which how Did This Get Made has one of the best episodes of a podcast ever, specifically on this movie. And they keep talking about...
00:03:07
Speaker
how they have a presentation. Yes. And it's a fashion show, but they keep referring to it as a so presentation. And so if you're looking for a fashion presentation, it does not surprise me that Mannequin and Red Dead 2 the first thing on the list. Absolutely. And yet I don't think I've ever seen either of those movies. Oh, my God. The revelations that we have at the top of an episode. think we know what we're doing next because those are both from the 80s, right? They really are. Wow. Okay, well, stay tuned. Oh, my God. Okay, but...
00:03:47
Speaker
ah oh my god ok but This movie, you know, there was like a trend going around on social media, like within the last year that was like posting pictures of dresses that changed your brain chemistry. And there was a lot of like the green dress from Atonement or like anything that Nicole Kidman wore in Moulin Rouge or... um and you know just like really like iconic stuff like that this movie is that for me like I think this movie fundamentally changed my brain chemistry and what I thought about clothes and I felt like it was important to be included on the list and I do think that it's a really interesting take on clothes because it is very much about fashion but it is kind of like
00:04:42
Speaker
Twisted in that the characters are going into this like unfashiony world as opposed to like, like no one needs a makeover in this movie. They're very like very focused on appearance, very focused on glamour, very focused on those things. And they're being asked to do the opposite and be become more like rugged and outdoorsy and do the whole wilderness girl thing.
00:05:06
Speaker
And i don't think that I can defend this as a good movie, just a movie that I love. But I want to know what you think about it, Ariel. Well, rich people have feelings too. they do I think that this is very much of its time. And I think that it is a perfect example of family movies from when we were growing up from the 80s and the 90s, which was kind of like a golden era of these things, which had story for kids, you know, but then like your parents could actually sit and watch it and not have things be dumbed down. Like they could have things that weren't necessarily super inappropriate to laugh at, you know, and like,
00:05:50
Speaker
everybody in the family structure could get something from it and i think that this totally slots into that and like you know basically all of the things that made millennials are those things you know that that example of a family movie um i enjoyed this i think that there are there's a big uh-oh that I want to get out of the way, yeah which is very typical, unfortunately, of things that existed when we were growing up, which is some insensitivities.
00:06:24
Speaker
like Specifically, because this is about wilderness girls, there's a connection with like the ruggedness that you speak of and the outdoorsyness. There's this like absolutely unnecessary connection to American Indian um imagery and like headdresses, teepees. And every time I saw those, I was like, okay. And there's like, yeah there's a buckskin pants.
00:06:48
Speaker
They're in there for no flippant reason. and And so there's like just ignorance on that part that was like, When that was on the screen really uncomfortable. yeah But the rest is like pretty much suspend your disbelief. And like there's also some jokes in there that are like, okay. Like –
00:07:10
Speaker
What was it? Mr. and Despot? No, Dictator. Mr. and Mrs. Dictator. And this is an Asian family. yeah and it's like their daughter wins a badge in money laundering and crushing rebellion. And I was like, okay. Okay.
00:07:30
Speaker
Wowie. Yeah. Apparently there's a lot of references that would have made sense at the time to them being dictators from the Philippines specifically. ah i didn't understand that. Like, yes like i oh I kind of knew it, but I don't know that much about like that particular political history. i certainly didn't know it when I was like eight. Yeah. but So there's those things as a modern watcher where you're like, come on, man. am um
Girl Scout Experiences and Nostalgia
00:08:00
Speaker
But for a movie from its time, it it could have had so many more shitty things. And it does not have so many more shitty things. It has... Some dumb stuff that's like, come on, man. yeah um But aside from that, i loved Shelley Long in this so much. I loved that this story it's this troop of parentified children.
00:08:28
Speaker
like The childhood trauma on display in the movie is wild. Who have to kind of balance their troop leader's emotional states. And like they're clearly managing their own parents' like careers in Hollywood. Yes. And like they are mini versions of their parents and like, you know, just growing up too fast in a lot of ways. So this is kind of restoring parts of childhood for them. Yeah. um But I liked, okay, I was a Girl Scout. Me too. Yeah, I didn't go for forever, but I was a Brownie and then I was a Girl Scout.
00:09:06
Speaker
And I loved a lot of it. And so I did recognize the cultural ignorance of using Native American imagery and names because our troops did the same thing when we were kids. yeah And like our camps that we would go to did that. And it was like an absolutely – ignorant thing and um not cool and unfortunately still continues to this day. As far as I know, I don't have any kids who are in Girl Scouts. Yeah. I hope it's not happening anymore, but I honestly don't know. But I don't know. Yeah, I don't And so I recognize what that is. And um I think that there was way less present in my
00:09:54
Speaker
Girl Scout experience, like no headdresses, butt skins. No, we did not have any of that. No stereotyping in that sense, no teepees. It was just using names to kind of like mythologize things. Yeah. But I loved being a kid.
00:10:12
Speaker
in the outdoors. I loved that, even though I hate having stuff on my hands. I loved outdoor activities. I loved you know having a troupe, even though not all of us liked each other all of the time, because show me a group of girls that's going to be nice to each other all the time. yeah um But I loved that, and I loved that kind of feeling, like seeing that in this, of these girls like – earning their own badges because like having badges was so exciting like oh my god I know i recently my mom found my Girl Scout vest with all of my badges on it And it was really fascinating to look at because i was really confronted with the sort of graphic design embroidery of those badges from like the mid 90s and how extremely mid 90s they look to me now. look dated. Yeah. Wild.
00:11:10
Speaker
i would say my my feeling about being a Girl Scout, I would have fit in, I think, better with the girls in the Beverly Hills troupe because I'm not super outdoorsy. And the idea of doing like a fashion show is way more appealing to me and was at the time. In fact, I believe my Girl Scout troop did do a fashion show at some point. Amazing. um It was not as couture as the one in the movie. But all of the stuff that I was interested in in Girl Scouts involved like doing crafts inside. I
Fashion and Character Development in 'Troop Beverly Hills'
00:11:43
Speaker
mean, I loved that. Like, yeah, let's talk about Girl Scouts for just another minute because this is just like totally going off of a big, big, big sense of nostalgia for many things. But like at one of our summer camps, it's one where all the Girl Scout troops...
00:11:57
Speaker
in like a certain area convened. And I don't even remember how long we were there for, it was like a few days I feel. And ah there was like a camp wide thing. so there were all these houses on the property and each house went to a different troop and um they were like really big. And they reminded me of like military housing, like at the Presidio before they kind of like updid the recsidio Presidio and Did up, up did. know what you mean.
00:12:28
Speaker
ah the troop leaders all had this thing where it was kind of around the time that um this movie came out was it called like a fairy story or something where it's like a movie about these two girls in Victorian England who lie about fairies but they have figured out photography enough to like oh like they're photographing fairies yeah it's based on like it's based on a real thing and it's like the writer of Sherlock Holmes what what's his name ah ah Arthur Conan Doyle. He believes them. yeah and Yeah. And so there's a movie about that. And it was like kind of indicative of like how important fairies were to like our age set. Absolutely. And so the troop leaders would ah at night, you'd put your shoes at the foot of the bed and the troop leaders while you were asleep would put glitter
00:13:17
Speaker
in your shoes oh and they'd say that fairies had come by and then like somebody put like old doll houses like in the woods and like covered oh my god all this stuff you know and so it was just like there are fairies in them woods oh my gosh my girl scout experience was like sit on a log and eat this granola bar like that was not my i wish that we had little secret fairies coming out my girl scout camp yeah And there was like a like a quarter or a penny, I think a penny in your shoe with the glitter. It was like a very specific memory that I have from that. But there was like a magic to you know, being a kid and
00:13:56
Speaker
ah doing these things and achieving these things and like it was also a big thing when we were growing up to have like scrip and to sell cookies and like the Boy Scouts would sell wreaths or nuts which is nineteen thirty s i think and like but like there was one year that I sold nuts as a Girl Scout they like really experimented it I think it i don't think it lasted so it might have been like one of the only years they did it yeah I didn't know my mom was a flight attendant for United Airlines I didn't know that whenever it came time to sell cookies, she bought all the fucking cookies. She would take all this big amount of cookies that we were obligated to sell and she would take them with her to San Francisco International Airport, her home terminal, and she'd have – Half of suitcase was cookies. Oh, my God. And she'd be selling them to her flight attendants. And they'd be putting in orders. it's like I was feeding, you know, sugars to the employees of this guy. love Oh, God. She talked about it once. She was like, no, stay.
00:15:06
Speaker
Like you don't even know. She was like everybody hated to see me. Oh my God. My I wish like the Girl Scouts now like set up shop outside like the supermarket. That was not a thing when we were Girl Scouts. We would set up outside of the supermarket. They're even more evolved now. I don't see them outside of the supermarkets as much anymore. They have QR codes. Yeah, they do. and You can get them delivered to your house. Exactly. They deliver. It's a digital enterprise now. oh my God. And you can just like on Instagram, they're like, here, buy your cookies for our troop. And it's like, ho it's a different culture. Cause for, for us, I think we're outside Oh, I don't, I think I probably did do a little bit of door to door, but we were pretty much outside of supermarkets. We were those kids that were like, hi. Yeah.
00:15:56
Speaker
I wish. i Because I was like, I think I would have been bold enough at that age to be like fine with that. Like I wouldn't have been too shy to do it. But I remember...
00:16:08
Speaker
Whenever it was cookie time, ah cookie time, yeah um I was only allowed to go door to door on our street because my mom thought that people in town would be annoyed if there was someone coming door to door trying to get them to buy cookies. So it was like, you can only go on our street where people like know who you are and will not feel like obligated to buy cookies if they don't want them.
Costume Design by Theodora Van Runkle
00:16:35
Speaker
And they did let me bring my order form to their store and ask like any of the employees if they wanted cookies. But it was very much like a, there is no obligation to buy cookies. Like, but we were the only Girl Scout troop in town. So it was like, if you weren't buying cookies from us, you weren't buying them. so it was sort of like, and back then everybody, a million years ago, if you didn't get Girl Scout cookies during the season of Girl cout Scout cookie selling, you were out of luck it was like like two weeks it was not a long time no and you had to buy enough for your urges it's like you knew what families were rich because they had a garage freezer you know like they had x amount of boxes versus the one family that has the tiny freezer in their apartment and it's like yeah we'll take two boxes three boxes thank you
00:17:27
Speaker
And I feel like they've kind of stayed the same price generally. Like they were expensive back then. They were, but it seems relatively consistent. And to be fair, I haven't ordered any in a very long time.
00:17:40
Speaker
I think I bought some last year from some girls at the grocery store and it was like $5 a box. It was like, you know, it was pretty decent. Yeah. I was not mad about what I got. I was certainly happy with it.
00:17:52
Speaker
But and so i don't know. There was like a magic to it. There's some, yeah you know, there's magic parts of childhood of like having these things where you are counting time so differently and you're putting different activities into it that make it exciting or you know,
00:18:08
Speaker
that you're working towards something that isn't just a paycheck so that you can have x amount of hours where you're not working for a paycheck. And so being reminded of that was, was kind of nice. And like, I love that these, these, um these,
00:18:26
Speaker
uniforms If they had been what our uniforms were, i would have been the most Girl Scout of all the Girl Scouts. I just can say that for free. Because like, I didn't count how many costumes Shelley Long has in this. Oh, she had so many different iterations of that uniform. Yes. Aside from her out of uniform. ah Because in every single scene, she's wearing something different.
00:18:52
Speaker
Yes. And we never see exactly the same thing over again. So it's like even with her uniform, we see pieces. But she has ah full wardrobe for that uniform. God bless. Different ties. It's like – it's literally like 40s – it reminds me of 40s army uniform.
00:19:10
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. Where there's like a dress tie and like a different tie. You know, you have your – different uniforms for different purposes. And so she has like an all khaki number. and She has the standard, bog standard green with the khaki and then iterations within both of those. One of which includes a silk shirt.
00:19:32
Speaker
sailing blouse. will. And obviously it's important to point out that she only wears the silk sailing blouse when they are literally on a boat. On a boat. And she has a tailor that she like walks in and is like, I love, i love. So what I love about this, like the way that they show like clothes in this movie, I feel like the beginning of the movie is a little bit like the beginning of Legally Blonde. Where we see that this woman is being presented as like frivolous and whatever. But she knows what she's talking about when it comes to clothes. She's knowledgeable. She's not she's not just a blonde ditz with a credit card as Elle Woods. And she's also really nice to people. She is. She's got a kind heart. She's very Elle Woods, honestly. She's Elle Woods. For anyone listening to this that has not seen this movie, this this is Elle Woods. it Like, if she didn't go to law school, literally. so i love that.
00:20:30
Speaker
she She takes the troop to the uniform store and it looks exactly like any workroom that either of us has ever been in where clothes are being manufactured and produced. They give her the standard uniform and she says, this simply will not tries to make it okay. And the girl's like, yeah, it looks good. And she's like, it it does, right? And then she's like, I can't be having this.
00:20:57
Speaker
No. We can't be having this. no So she takes it to her tailor. oh and I love that she though uniform lady asked her what size and she says, I'm a French 36. And the lady says, if you want that French stuff, you got to go to Fredericks of Hollywood, which is a reference that the children today simply would not get um because they don't exist anymore. Yeah. But I love she takes it to her tailor. And as soon as he sees it, he's just like, oh, like he's like, and he literally takes a handkerchief to pick up the hanger. He doesn't want to touch it. no And he also has like a little ponytail, like his hair, the way he's dressed and his hair is as if he's like a Frenchman from like the 18th century, it feels like where there's like a little tiny bow to hold his hair back. And he's just very like, no, no, no, no. This absolute trash. We can't be having this. Yeah.
00:21:48
Speaker
Oh, my God. But, like, all of the um the actual, like, regular, regular outfits that Shelley Long wears in this movie, like, every single one is, like, more incredible than the last. Like, the woman doesn't know...
00:22:07
Speaker
what jeans are she doesn't know what a t-shirt is and if she did there's like one outfit that she wears when our enemy velda comes to visit her towards it's like past the halfway point of the movie where velda is trying to bring her down and say like you're gonna get these kids killed at my you know outdoor jamboree whatever and uh She's wearing like a pretty down home outfit that's like leggings and a skirt and like a blouse that's like tied in the front and it's got bowling stuff on it, like bowling pins. It's so cute. But it's like the least ornate of all of her outfits.
00:22:50
Speaker
And here's the thing. When we are talking about Shelley Long's character, the Elle Woods before Elle Woods, she has – this is like the one of the big issues that her husband has is that – and like part of why they're divorcing is that she's shopping
80s Fashion and its Lasting Impact
00:23:06
Speaker
all the time and he thinks that it's a waste of time and stupid. But her character very much cares about clothing and enjoys clothing. And we never see her judging anybody else for the clothing. We just see that she likes it. And so she has –
00:23:23
Speaker
Every single time it's a night scene and she's getting ready for bed, a completely different set of um pajamas. Now, i'm not just talking about pajamas. I'm talking about pajamas, a robe, an earring set that matches, a headband with a bow that matches. Flippers.
00:23:41
Speaker
Flippers and jewelry all over her hands and yeah wrists. Yeah. And it's like not – even if we know this the same day of something that we've previously seen, she's changed. She has including her makeup. Her makeup matches her pajamas. It's so – like that is so funny to me. And I know that we're jumping all over the place. This is just our style. It's what it is. But also like I feel like the the plot the plot of this movie is exactly what you think it is. Yes. it's she she's like flighty she decides she's going to be the troop leader for her daughter's wilderness girls true and they get into that immediately immediately immediately it's the first scene it's literally the first scene and it's a ragtag group of girls from beverly hills they're like tweens you know ah and they are literally it's like a convocation of american girl dolls they literally like it's it's all these different styles of and it's like
00:24:42
Speaker
incredible yeah like take like take the full house girls and like turn it up to like 12 that's what these girls look like and you know they're disorganized they haven't had as unified leadership they don't really know about being in their troop because it's kind of like no one's ever really stuck around she sticks around she whips them into shape She teaches them how to survive in the wilderness of Beverly Hills. Just such a great montage of like skincare, shopping, jewelry appraisal.
00:25:17
Speaker
And then of course, like the actual like rugged, woman who's like in charge of like the larger area of trupe plunder and she doesn't like it and so she's like gonna destroy this troop and the fun of children okay literally tries to kill them at the end of the movie like this is this This is what I'm talking about. These are the family movies that we grew up on where the villain is like, well, I'm going to teach you a lesson because I like this thing more than you like this thing. And I think you're stupid. So I'm actually going to try to get you killed. Crazy work.
00:25:56
Speaker
I'm going to put a bunch of 11 year olds in physical danger because I don't think that you're doing Girl Scouts the right way. Insane. This villain is crazy. And she is exactly the villain that you want her to be. Like every detail of her is crazy villainous. So she has, she and all the other troop leaders have their uniform. Right. And so it's like, whenever there's anything, she lives in her uniform, but like whenever we see any meeting, anything, they're always dressed in this uniform, which is like a green beret, the khaki, a green tie, um khaki skirt. And then,
00:26:35
Speaker
I think that's maybe like a couple other details, but she has Velda and her little like henchman have the most aggressively ugly shoes I have ever seen in my life. I don't.
00:26:47
Speaker
The only name that I have in my vocabulary for those shoes are granny boots or granny shoes, which is what they would be referred to in like a theater stock room storage. Yeah.
00:27:00
Speaker
And they're basically like heeled Oxfords, but
Fashion Evolution and Character Identity
00:27:04
Speaker
they are like less exciting or ornate. They're like one and a half inch heels. They're the shoes. The only time I've seen them used are for shows that are set in the 30s and you have a character that's supposed to be dowdy. a librarian. a librarian. I've seen them used for nuns. Yep.
00:27:24
Speaker
I've seen them used for like old widows. Yep. And like to top it off, the cherry on the cake for me, because she was a nurse in the war, believe is what she said. She was a military nurse. So she has literal military medals, including a purple heart on her fucking Wilderness Girls uniform, which is just so crazy. And she carries around this...
00:27:52
Speaker
it's It's like for a male character, we would assume that it would be like a straight walking stick so that he could emphasize and hit things and point to things. But it's like a very abbreviated version that she has in some scenes. She is the worst. Yeah. She's a cartoon character. She's a cartoon character. and the opposite is truly Shelley Long's character because she immediately upgrades character.
00:28:23
Speaker
Her uniform into a caped coat. With gold lining. Oh, no. That one comes later. is it she not the same one? She's got two capes. No. Two caped coats. So, like, the color palette for these uniforms is khaki with, like, this darker green. It's not, like, maybe a hunter green. Yeah. and um yeah She keeps the color palette, actually. She keeps the color palette, but she adds piping.
00:28:48
Speaker
yep She adds shoulder pads for the gods. And I said, holy shit, the shoulder pads. And there are multiple pieces and versions and hats. So this hat that we first see her in is like one of those kind of forty s like army soldier hats yeah the foldable hat yeah but it's and open in the top it's open in the top so you can see her hair but like all of this has piping and details and like the lining of the cape for the first time we see it is this green which means that she has Oh, you're so right. Because later. Fashion She has like a beautiful like she takes because the the top is kind of like a jacket. There's a shirt underneath. But she she has her she
Concluding Reflections on 'Troop Beverly Hills'
00:29:36
Speaker
has her tailor. She gets this like beautiful like hip shaping.
00:29:39
Speaker
and oh And like There's this really interesting... I've been obsessed with this jacket since I was like eight years old. yeah there's like this sort of There's what looks like piping that makes ah like a sweetheart neckline in the jacket, even though it like continues above that. yeah But it is actually like a separate piece because sometimes when she moves, it like folds. And you can see that it... like is not attached at the top yeah so she has crazy detail work yeah like there's there's literal like couture details yes because like like you said she has a shirt underneath it's like a military uniform where there's the full dress uniform so she has a shirt and then she has multiple ties that go underneath sometimes she has just an emerald brooch it's like breath It's crazy. She has so many different versions of this. She has trousers. She has a pleated skirt. She has culottes. She's got every version that that youre going to... She has like a bucket hat, like a hardened... like safari hat almost yeah it's like in a green and i mean it's just like for every purpose there is a matching style ah uniform and that goes throughout this character's whole life the costume designer for this yeah is theodora van runkel and have you seen much of her work
00:31:07
Speaker
um I haven't seen that much of it. I like obviously like recognize the titles. I've seen some things like yeah I believe she was the designer for Godfather Part Two. Yes. and I wish I've seen that. There's like ah a list and I just pulled out a couple. so there's the Godfather Part Two. Peggy Sue Got Married. The Jerk.
00:31:28
Speaker
Best Little Whorehouse in Texas. I have actually seen is Peggy Sue Got Married the one with Nicolas Cage. Yes. Okay. And Jim Carrey. That movie, we watched Peggy Sue Got Married when we were, when Jonathan and I were doing a month of movies that were filmed in Northern California because that movie was filmed in Petaluma. In my town. Yeah. And like you can see the house. It's near downtown that like was her house. And it still looks pretty much the same unless in the past six months that's changed. But like it is it is wild. And like it was at Santa Rosa High School and like just all these local places. But the thing about Peggy Sue got married is that there's this – so the whole story of that is that there's, you know, this woman going to the high school reunion and then she gets hit on the head and she gets transported back in time to make a different decision to have a happier life basically, right?
00:32:21
Speaker
And i hated this movie when I was a kid. My mom had it on VHS and she loved it and she always wanted to get me to like it. And I was like, ble this movie about stupid adults and divorce. yeah like it worrying But then i I genuinely love it. And it's got a lot of character to it yeah and there's this specific dress that she wears to her high school reunion that is like a silver lame dress i think because i saw the best little warehouse in texas once i've seen the jerk halfway through and i've seen the godfather a long time ago part two um so i don't know that i can really say that this is like a signature of hers but it it happening so strongly twice is like i think that Theodora Van Runkle, may she rest in peace. I think that she had a great fondness for metallic silver dresses and things because there is one of the pajama sets. There is a robe, a cape of a robe that is silver lame. And it's like she just really loves this like yeah effect that's like this whopping silver. And I think that she has a very fun sensibility with her costume designs. I mean, she goes full out. Full out. This was perfect movie to put on this list, Melinda. Yay! i mean, like, there's there's so many things in the movie that you just get to see for, like, a few seconds. few seconds? Like, there's a scene... that
00:33:51
Speaker
It's not even one of my favorite costumes in the movie, but I was like really looking at it this time. There's a scene that it's a phone call that's about 30 seconds long. And she's out at a tree holding clippers and she's like clipping like individual leaves off the tree. And she's on her cordless phone because it's the 80s after all, you know. And she's in...
00:34:12
Speaker
It's very nineteen fifty s I would say. It really is. But she's in this black and white zebra situation that is like, it's one of those sort of 50s things where it's like cigarette pants that's with a full huge skirt that's open up the front so that you can see the cigarette pants. And the entire skirt is black.
00:34:37
Speaker
zebra print like uh organza like what is it with this giant hat oh my god and like of course the makeup and the jewelry match it completely and it truly is 30 second phone call and it's so quick boom boom and she's got this whole thing so we're led to understand that she put on this whole outfit to she's gardening and then love later in the when she's giving out all the individual patches she gives her daughter the gardening with glamour patch and i was like mother like daughter there's another outfit that is one of my favorite in this movie it's it might be one of the funniest costume design decisions i've ever seen and not like a oh my god it's a guy in a chicken suit kind of funny it's like a
00:35:24
Speaker
If you're looking at details, you you realize how much effort went into this. And it's very, it's subtle, but it made me laugh. There's a scene...
00:35:36
Speaker
Where she's in the kitchen and she's making a sandwich and it's clear that she doesn't really cook for herself. And she's watching like a Jane Fonda workout video. But her version of the workout is trying to open like the mayo jar or something. So she like takes it out of the kitchen and walks into the guest house for her, you know husband who they're separated for him to open it.
00:35:55
Speaker
She's wearing an outfit. I called it the sandwich making outfit because let's be just very straightforward. Yeah. It matches her kitchen and the sandwich. Yeah.
00:36:07
Speaker
Sushi.
00:36:10
Speaker
She's matching her kitchen and her food. And I was just like, and it's not that crazy an outfit. It's black and white and red basically. Yeah. With maybe like some other stuff. But like she's literally, it's all about the the placement of her, right? And the framing of her. She is in the only other red that you see, i think in the kitchen, aside from like what's happening on the TV screen with Jane Fonda, is the tomato and the sandwich and what she's wearing. And everything else in the kitchen is pretty black and white. And so it's just like, she's just,
00:36:41
Speaker
dressed up to make a sandwich but i just thought that was so funny one of my favorites is early in the movie the scene where the girls are first coming to her house for the first meeting where she's like the troop leader and she's having this sort of like garden party situation okay i can't believe that i skipped past that yeah And she's wearing this dress that is, i would say, buttercup yellow.
00:37:14
Speaker
ah and it's a very tight pencil skirt. And on top of that is, I don't even know what to call this peplum. It's like a pannier inspired peplum situation because it's very stiff and it has the shape of pannier. It's like a taco shell. Yes.
00:37:35
Speaker
And it's very little Bo Peep somehow. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, it's not just the buttercup yellow. It's almost like Easter colors when you think of it. Yeah. Because it's all covered in like, it's all trimmed out in like silk flowers that are like blue and pink and lavender.
00:37:51
Speaker
And it's one of the craziest looking things. Like Ariel, I'm like an impressionable eight year old girl. And I'm watching this movie and this is what I'm like, this is what adulthood is. Yeah. like So this is what I'm aspiring to. Yes. yeah I mean, it is so funny because it's like, okay, she's also in heels in every, almost every single scene. There's one scene I think where she's not in heels and it's when she needs to not be in heels because of like physical safety.
00:38:25
Speaker
And that did not piss me off the way that the recent Jurassic Park series correct and infuriated me. yeah Because shut up. You're running from dinosaurs. You're going to take off your sinking heels. Don't don't play with me. have no patience for that. so there's like a scene where when they start getting into the patches of it all.
00:38:46
Speaker
She's teaching like dance, right? Yeah. And she's teaching all these different dance moves and she's got this outfit. It's just like... It's kind of like when we've seen you know movies in the 40s or the 30s and like ah fifty s even recently, Funny Face, a great example, and The Women, where they had the fashion shows that showed active wear for women yeah of a certain set. And the active wear had like creative culottes and it had different dresses and things with accessories. This is that, but like nobody in their right mind would put this outfit in a dance studio. I know.
00:39:26
Speaker
I can't even, i don't have the words because I don't have the picture in front of me right now, but it's like a coordinated color outfit and the fact she's dancing in heels. For what? Yeah, she's in like black spike heels. I believe she's wearing like stockings. Yeah, she's got black stockings. I think black shorts. Is it the one with the orange shirt I think it is. Yeah, it is. so it's like She's in like woven fabrics. These are not woven stretch fabrics. She's in full on.
00:39:56
Speaker
The shorts have this like shaping to them and then the legs are very flouncy, but not like, oh my God. It's like when you see culottes and you're like, oh, a secret skirt. and it's like Yeah, but it's like I think it's a testament to how Nicely, we used to cut clothing. Yes.
00:40:17
Speaker
ah Like, there's a reason that those shapes just like look more flattering to us. And it's because there's so much like care and attention in how the clothes were cut to work on a human body to give you movement, to give you like freedom with it being structured materials that don't stretch like spandex does. And we just had we hadn't reduced.
00:40:43
Speaker
our expectations of what clothes look like to where we are now, where it's like, we always talk about men's suits. Men's suits haven't really changed very much. um Since like a hundred years. Yeah. More than a hundred years. two hundred Yeah. 200. Yeah. 200 and change. And like things have gotten longer, wider, shorter.
00:41:07
Speaker
That's, that's the kind of change, but like the styles haven't changed. really like blown anybody's minds except for like it's pretty minute the changes but to us it feels big like the 70s versus the 30s but if you look at like the 1520s versus the 1930s versus the 1970s the changes are not as massive like if you showed those suits to like an alien that doesn't have like the experience of wearing them like we do they do like don't know they look the same yeah it was pretty close that a yeah wednesday but like right with our clothing especially women's clothing
00:41:40
Speaker
But also, men, with all of our clothing, we have just been like going towards this... restrictive point of what things are meant to look like. And part of that is the fabrics um that are popular right now.
00:41:57
Speaker
And so things are very bodycon because we have fabrics that conform to your body. But like we've just chucked a bunch of tailoring and a bunch of things that come with tailoring that are that would be kind of adventurous now.
00:42:12
Speaker
that wouldn't have been crazy before. Like they wouldn't be insane before, except for the little Bo Peep dress. I mean, that's in the eye of the beholder, personally. But like, you know, shorts. There were so many varieties of shorts just in the 80s and the 90s that you won't really see now. Now it's like, do I mean, there are varieties, but it's like, again, shorter, longer leg, wider.
00:42:40
Speaker
And so there's not different tailoring and different um little details. we've we We're losing detail work. Right. Yeah, everything's being standardized to make it as efficient to produce. So we're losing specificity of cut and details. Like the number of, I would say like the number of women's pants that like have like a flat front but have like an elastic waist on the back. Yeah.
00:43:13
Speaker
Because then you don't need to make 10 different sizes. You can make six. yeah And you just buy the one that fits the closest so you don't have to produce as much variety. Like, it's there's reasons why it happens. And all of the reasons are like a huge bummer. Yes. So it's like, it's seeing all of these little details.
00:43:34
Speaker
back then and now you go, well, these are rich people. So of course you have access to it, but it's like, ah that's a definite yes. But even so being not rich like this, ah Shortly after and during this time when we were alive, but very little, we had access to crazy stuff that had wild prints, that had wild sleeves and skirt shapes and hemlines and waistlines. Like we had all this different variety. And so seeing all of that on display here in a more...
00:44:06
Speaker
cartoonish level if you will it's just fun like seeing all of this fun stuff because like i think it's also because shelly long is perfect in this role and she's not villainous and like the way that the story is structured we're not really giving time to think about capitalism or you know and selfishness or any of those things no it's just a little eighty story that we're just blipping right past and like everyone who's like us working like for this woman like doing domestic labor or like doing like service work they're always just like oh ho so you know it's not you know it's not a gritty reality no it's not a gritty reality at all like nothing that we're seeing is hard here and so it's just like
00:44:52
Speaker
There's fun in every character. Every character that you see on this screen has a lot of thought put into how they are dressed. Sometimes it's it makes you go, a couple times. And then other times it's like, what a great example of costume design. And like the intentionality that goes behind it that that you see this as heightened.
00:45:16
Speaker
But then you actually stop and you look at all of the characters, even the second tier characters, and you go, all of this is detail. All of this is detail. The tailor being named Henri and having like a big French accent and he looks like a French nobleman from the 18th century. But 80s style is like such a funny little choice that didn't need to happen. Because like we go to Is it like Rodeo or something? And they're getting, you know, they're...
00:45:46
Speaker
there at a salon, I think, and you walk in and the guy who greets them ah when they all go in and they all have capes now, wilderness girl uniforms. But the guy who greets them is like Fabio-esque with like blown out hair. It's like we have so many different things where it's like we could just blip past this, but we didn't we didn't have to make all these men look the same. We didn't have to make all of these people working in these places look the same. We actually took the time to make them look different and like individuals yeah And I thought that was pretty fun. Can I tell you my favorite costume in the entire movie? that I just can't wait.
00:46:22
Speaker
I don't think that it will shock or surprise anyone. But um the first sort of major outdoorsy thing that they try to do is one overnight camping trip.
00:46:34
Speaker
And it rains, which is unsuitable the outdoors. Okay. So Phil, I'm so sorry to like jump in really quick. I want to hear. I want to hear. But to the scene of my experience of watching this for the first time. Phil was eating his lunch next to me. And right before this, he started to Google it because we were watching And we were like, we recognize so many people in this cast. Yeah. And you really do. But he was like, holy shit, that's Jenny Lewis from Rilo Kylie. The lead singer Rilo Kylie plays Shelley Long's daughter. Yeah.
00:47:05
Speaker
And then we recognize like a bunch of actors. But while he's doing that, I'm looking at this rain, this biblical rain open on this woman and these children. And I just laughed because I was like, can you imagine the setup? Like how many water pipes? Oh, my because the The ground immediately. turns Like it's it's not how rain works. It's like it's been a torrential downpour for at least 45 minutes to get to this place, like flooded. And she's wearing a white fur coat and she's like slipping in the mud and holding a chocolate fondue pot in her teeth. Like, I mean, it's it's beautiful. But ah obviously, like if you try to go camping outside and it rains, you have to leave. That's what I know about camping. Yeah.
00:48:02
Speaker
ah You can't be out there when it's raining. That's crazy. So they go to the Beverly Hills Hotel, obviously, but they're still roughing it because they only get one bungalow. um but With one bathroom for nine people. But...
00:48:19
Speaker
Shelly Long puts on this like mauve colored negligee and robe set. And the, the robe is chiffon and it has fur trimmed cuffs that are like, i don't know, like 12 inches wide and like two, three feet long cuffs on her robe. like,
00:48:47
Speaker
i like That outfit changed my life. This is like, I saw this and I knew that this was going to be on a list for you. Yeah. Because I was awful like, this is this is wicked.
00:49:02
Speaker
This is Glinda. yeah oh for sure. This is Glinda. She's Glinda. Yeah. That kind of like... 30s 40s yeah golden hollywood yes star she needs a giant staircase to be able to melt down so that her robe has enough real estate to do all the movement that it needs yes like when was nine when i was nine My mom asked me what I wanted to be for Halloween that year because my mom also like knows how to sew and she would often like make our Halloween costumes when I was a kid.
00:49:44
Speaker
And she asked me what I wanted to be for Halloween and I said a movie star. That was the answer. Oh, oh, oh. And that that costume is the first dress that I ever designed because I said, I want to be like this and I want to be like that and I want to be like this. And my mom said, i don't have a pattern for that because that's like she grew up sewing from commercial patterns. Like that was her background. And I was like, but you just make it because I want this and I want that and I want this. And it like that, I feel like is was like a huge
00:50:21
Speaker
life moment where I'm like, I know what I want in my head. And I wanted to see it. I can see it. And now I want it to exist. And it's not based on like, I'm not copying something. I'm obviously like pulling different ideas together, but I'm like, I can see it all working together. Yeah. It should be. Yes.
00:50:42
Speaker
That's amazing. And she made it for me and it was Royal blue sequins off the shoulder. With a blue boa.
00:50:54
Speaker
that's what That was my idea of being a movie star. Listen, when you're right, you're right. There's just nothing anybody can do about it. that is I love that that is your origin story with all of my heart. Because that is so good.
00:51:12
Speaker
Your mom's going, I don't know if I can do that. I don't have patterns of you going, I don't. Need to hear how we get there. Yeah. We're going to get there. Yeah. I'm pretty sure there's a photo somewhere of me standing on the front porch, like before we go trick or treating and I'm wearing that. And my brother is dressed as ghost face from scream. ah
00:51:40
Speaker
This, this movie is just, I feel like it's not that deep. you know It's really not. It's just not that deep. But like it it's a fun watch if you have any interest in fashion or costumes. Yeah. And then you get the benefit of the 80s, 90s family movie. Yeah.
00:52:03
Speaker
Oh my god. we went on an adventure and yeah the characters learned lessons little and lessons some of i i love ah i i have to mention that partway through the movie when they're trying to sell all of the cookies for the cookie drive obviously god Their idea for selling the cookies, I mean, they have they go through multiples, but the culmination is they have like a country club gala event where they have a runway fashion show and the theme of it is khaki. And it's so good. ah
00:52:37
Speaker
So good. And it's so crazy. The horse hair budget. oh But also the millinery, which we haven't talked about. but Yes. is it exhibit It exhibits it on a larger scale is that all of these girls have – Hats on hats on hats on hats that are just statement hat after statement hat. And I saw it somewhere else in like a blog post that someone wrote about this movie being their origin story as well. But we just don't wear hats anymore.
00:53:07
Speaker
no we don't don't. And we don't. And I talked about this in the last couple movies. We just don't do – fun with hats anymore. People think about hats, they think of like the Kentucky Derby or a British wedding for the royal family. And it's like what those hats looked like in that fashion show. Yes. It's like, even those hats, though, I'm like, that's, that's not even where we could be going with fun. Like those are even limited. And like this has such a wide variety. And then another part of their fun like selling the cookies, even before we get to the fashion show, I think is when they're on a street corner.
00:53:41
Speaker
Beverly Hills doing a little concert that I don't know if you've ever seen this, but it's been big in our house in the early 90s, late eighty s maybe earlier in the eighty s I can't.
00:53:52
Speaker
I don't remember specifically when it's from, but Wendy's. Wendy's. And like maybe Burger King, McDonald's, but the fast food restaurants used to do music videos for their training videos. Have you ever seen these? Jonathan has played some for me. so hot drinks.
00:54:13
Speaker
He's played the one for Wendy's, I think, about what cup to use. Yes.
00:54:20
Speaker
Listen, by the way, listener, please look these up. They will get stuck in your head. But that's what this song was like to me. There's like a chocolate cookie line that was exactly the same. So similar. And I was just like, get it, girls, get it. But the girls have a different uniform for this that has green trim. They just have green trim that's added in specific spots and sequin bandanas. Yes. they have a showman style. Yeah.
00:54:56
Speaker
And they have – so that was like to just to just get us in the right place and then they pushed us into the gala with the fashion show that is just insane. And that's where Shelley Long has her like ascended uniform that is all lined in gold and just like it's khaki and gold. And it is – And her hat, she's got like, i don't even know what bird those feathers came of. Pheasant, I think. Pheasant. And they're like four feet long. They're so long. long.
00:55:27
Speaker
It's like insane. But it's just the opportunities here to have so much fun with costumes it's just like you it's it's undeniable because there's even like planar stuff that you could buy from a store so like in the dance scene where she's teaching the girls these like dances and it's very fun they're just wearing like stretch wear right they're wearing yeah just like biker shorts yeah they're in like full jazzercise like it's very but there's one of the girls is wearing this white t-shirt that has like
00:56:02
Speaker
the most late 80s early 90s like the crossover for us is just insane but like the shirt is a shirt that i would have been so fucking excited have in like 1994 i was so excited because it was like not quite puffy paint but there's like glittery stuff happening on it like t-shirts used to be heavy Yes. They used to crunch. They used to crunch.
00:56:31
Speaker
They used to be heavy. They used to be scratchy for so many different reasons. Some of them just had chains on them. And I'm not talking about like heavy chains. I'm talking about like jewel chains. Oh my God. To connect hearts. I had stuff A hundred percent. So did I. Okay. My birth grandmother, enemy of the state, um she worked for a small fashion company in Sonoma County and that I modeled for.
00:56:57
Speaker
Oh, my god Yeah. Do a little newspaper spots, whatever. ok What a reveal.
00:57:06
Speaker
i had some of the craziest 90s kids clothing and I still have some of it. It's incredible. Because they would just give it to me like in exchange for using my face in publications. Yeah.
00:57:19
Speaker
But like that kind of stuff we had and it was like heavy and it was like not tailored clothing, right? But we we experienced clothing that like – because when people now wear tailored clothing, they're like, oh, it I just feel so different in it because it's more constricting because it's like if it's a woven fabric especially, it's – sturdy, right? Yeah. that That's what these frigging t-shirts were for us. They were sturdy as hell. They were like, ah here's you you're on your way to a tailored garment. It doesn't really stretch. That's why it's so big. Nope. You have to shove your head through it. She was wearing this shirt and I was like, oh my God, i can feel that shirt right now.
00:58:04
Speaker
And like I can feel that you could like run your nails on it and it would make so much noise as if it were like corduroy. the paint is hard oh my god i know like I like i mean like like Shelley Long's fashion in this movie is so dominant, but like each of the girls in the troupe has a very specific oh yeah identity that is expressed through their costumes. like the The preppy girl who's mean and rides horses with her like weird equestrian and like oxfords all the time. And the girl whose dad is like a director, cinematographer, and she's like...
00:58:43
Speaker
dressed like i don't know like she's gonna grow up to be like a psychoanalyst or something yeah it's like there's just each that's why i said it was like a convocation of american girl dolls because they each are like this different version of child without it being like this is sporty spice baby spice you know it's like no there's just these different varieties or it's like the um babysitter's club you know and like without throwing a bunch of denim on one girl Like it's just so many different little iterations of things that you would have recognized at that time. yeah And like each one being completely individual is like pretty, pretty fucking fun. And like I don't think that any of the girls looked like they were stereotyped.
00:59:29
Speaker
No. And except for maybe an overuse of sunglasses on two of the children. yeah they really. But, you know, it's l a So, you know, but yeah, I think it's like.
00:59:43
Speaker
i I just think it's delightful, like from beginning to end for the clothes. Like every single person just feels fleshed out and thoughtful and everything is bold. But like it always is like so fun to look at. Yeah. And it's like it's crazy that you can see a scene with Shelley Long in her.
01:00:07
Speaker
Any of her pajama sets or any of her tailored uniform looks and she could just be walking down the street and she would stand out, but not like she's wearing a big big bird costume.
01:00:19
Speaker
Right. She stands out because everything is tailored and purposeful. Yeah. And so it's like that that's just a lot of skill. That's a lot of skill on display from the costumers and like all the costumers and, you know, makeup and hair Everybody was killing it.
01:00:34
Speaker
Yeah, everyone looked great. And I think they do benefit. Obviously, it's a really like it's kind of a big era for clothes like the late 80s things is like that's what people picture when they think about the 80s now in a lot of ways. But this was sort of like the only time that was really like happening is like the late 80s. But we're also like we're in Los Angeles. So there's, I think, more color and print than you would expect if we were in like you know kansas or chicago like uh so we benefit from the sort of like exuberance of the setting as well and the sort of like it's always sunny and 75 degrees and so we can like one time they go camping one time you know it's such a bummer the bottom of the grand canyon i know And I love that the message at the end is just like that you should help people and be nice to people and yeah be a good person. And that's always nice, even though these are deeply out of touch rich people. 100%. And like even nod to that is like there's a divorce court scene that I can't believe I was going to forget. but yeah scene And she brings the girls so that they can – it's like educational for them and she's tying it to a patch, I think.
01:01:56
Speaker
Each of the girls is wearing something high fashion for them. Did you notice – I didn't ever really pick up on it until this viewing. Every single one of those girls has feathers somewhere in their outfit. Yeah, one of them, a giant boa.
01:02:11
Speaker
Yeah, or like on a hat or like a trim. like I was just like – Why are they all wearing – they literally look like they're going to the Kentucky Derby. yeah And it's like – It's But It's like this like elevated Hollywood moment. And it's like the judge is like even – kind of enamored with it and shelly long in that scene another reason why it sticks out is because she says to the judge oh do you like it it's a it's a van runkel yeah and that is the costume designer i love i love that it was like a little shout out to the costume designer i thought that was really freaking fun and but it's like such a wild little scene so crazy and it doesn't go well for her
01:02:49
Speaker
like As fun and delightful as this movie is, it's like a horror show of parenting. Oh, it's terrible. You should never. If we're going to apply any of this stuff to real life, there's a lot of bad stuff. And like there's some good parenting, you know but it's like...
01:03:05
Speaker
good-ish parenting to parentified children you know yeah yeah it's uh like spying on your dad who's living out in the guest house with your like with your daughter spying on your husband who might soon be your ex-husband with your daughter who's like can we spy on dad tomorrow is a crazy conversation i know and the one girl whose mom is a romance writer oh my god and her daughter's basically her editor Yeah, and you're like, this is deeply problematic and inappropriate. um And the girl who's like...
01:03:38
Speaker
living under like absolute neglect but because her parents are constantly just like leaving the country and leaving her at home like terrifying and the girl whose dad is like a completely washed up actor and she's like very aware of their dire financial situation like responsible for his emotions and stealing her own finances is like yeah crazy yeah so it's so it fun mind It's a fun watch. like yeah i'm not I'm not trying to like rip it apart.
01:04:11
Speaker
No, but there's it there's that are are just material there to rip apart. like But we recognize what's there. and like Deeply flawed. ah But there's a reason why it's a cult favorite. And it's because it took a lot of a lot of chances on something like all the costumes and the bigness for the characters in the world. And that's That's a fun bit of storytelling to and a fun opportunity for storytelling to be able to do that. so Yeah.
01:04:39
Speaker
it was It was a especially after, you know, some of the movies that we've watched recently. This was a real treat. Yeah. Would you call it a romp? I would call it a romp. I would call it a romp. A romp and khaki.
01:04:53
Speaker
ah Well, I mean, does that mean that we're doing mannequin next? I mean, okay, listen. Yeah. I'm okay if that's the answer. I think yes, because there's so much to talk about that. And like forward notice to any of our listeners who want to jump with us to that next episode. um Oh, hi, Yuta.
01:05:19
Speaker
It's another 80s movie that is a fantasy that is flawed. It is flawed because this is just the time in which these movies are happening. And we'll talk about it when the episode comes out. But just beware, there are many a flaw and like many very heightened ah stereotypes of some people.
01:05:40
Speaker
But this is also a good example, I think, of some costume design from what I remember is that it really punches high on some things.
01:05:51
Speaker
And like, I also am kind of like remembering Mannequin 2 with this one. Yeah. Which has two different lead actresses, by the way, that are supposed to. and they different? They might be different people. Maybe they're the same person. I don't remember anymore. But it's a crazy freaking movie and why not?
01:06:08
Speaker
Yeah. It's about close, isn't it? Yeah. That's the criteria. It's a big thing in it. So like let's let's watch it Awesome. This is – we get to decide. We get to decide. we are the deciders. So yeah. This is going to be another silly 80s movie. And um yeah, I don't know that it's going to swing as wide as this one does. I don't think anything really can hit Troop Beverly Hills like level. but That's okay. I think that's, you know, and we can't have every movie be like this movie. No. But let's let's do it.
01:06:46
Speaker
Cool. Next movie, Mannequin. Awesome. Looking forward to it. Nothing's going to stop us now. Nope. Don't you forget it. Thanks for listening. Thank you.