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Ocean's 8- For Women it's Business
20 Plays6 days ago
We're getting real heisty over here. This movie sees a certain number of women with a certain set of skills obtain a certain amount of things. And the fashion looks while doing all that are impeccable and so character driven. This movie explores how the right outfit at the right time can make you stand out or blend in, whichever is most useful for crimes.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5164214/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_1_tt_8_nm_0_in_0_q_oceans%208
Music: Cassette Deck by Basektcase
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Hot Set' and Episode Focus
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello and welcome back. Welcome back. This is another episode in our fashion season. And today's episode, this evening's episode, whatever time you're listening, is Oceans 8.
Plot Overview of 'Oceans 8'
00:00:35
Speaker
And I'm going to read you a synopsis, not the one that IMDb automatically offers because that one is just a naked sentence. I'm going to go for a synopsis submitted by somebody named Media K. Knight.
00:00:47
Speaker
Ahem. Ahem.
00:00:50
Speaker
Following her release from prison, Debbie Ocean, younger sister of the late Danny Ocean, meets with her former partner in crime, Lou, to convince her to join a heist that she planned while serving her sentence.
00:01:02
Speaker
Debbie and Lou assemble the rest of their team. Rose Wheel, a disgraced fashion designer who is deeply in debt with the IRS, Amita, a jewelry maker and friend of Debbie's who's eager to move out of her mother's house and begin her own life. Nineball, a computer hacker.
00:01:19
Speaker
Constance, a street hustler and pickpocket. And Tammy, a profiteer and another friend of Debbie's who's been secretly selling stolen goods out of her family's suburban home.
Fashion Elements and Heist Execution
00:01:28
Speaker
Debbie plans to steal the Toussaint, a $150 million dollars Cartier necklace from the Met Gala in three and a half weeks, and use Met Gala co-host Daphne Kluger, a famous actress known for her long neck. as an unwitting mule who will wear the necklace into the gala.
00:01:44
Speaker
So I feel like that explains. Yeah, that's a really good synopsis. Right? And it also nails that there are quite a few women. Oh. Yeah. A few women. Yeah, some might say eight. Eight.
00:02:01
Speaker
yeah And they are working as a team, maybe one of the most streamlined, heist yeah yeah i've ever seen like definitely i've seen a few fair heist movies and like this is very much it's very appropriate that the met gala is at the heart of it absolutely like the fashion it's like this is our second anne hathaway movie and a row in a row row yeah And so this is Hathaway summer. So it it feels like a devil wears Prada meets heist
Themes of Class and Privilege
00:02:39
Speaker
for sure. be Totally. Because this movie, the way that it approaches fashion is very specific. And I did not take many notes, but the notes that I did take specifically address that. Yeah. All of the like three notes that I took are literally just about like class consciousness and white supremacy and then nothing to do with clothes at all. Oh my God.
00:03:05
Speaker
I cannot wait to hear. and like, I just, I laughed because first of all, everybody, it was hot as Satan's armpits to be polite. um And it was unpleasant. And I don't know about y'all, but as soon as the heat starts going, i dumb.
00:03:23
Speaker
So dumb and so mad. Like everything just makes me mad. I'm just not nice. Like I'm rude and I'm mean and I'm dumb. not a good company I feel like you're overselling yourself. I don't think that it's really just for anyone that doesn't know you out there. i think that Ariel's being hyperbolic and she's always a delight to sell. Take that.
00:03:50
Speaker
And I did pay her to say that.
Debbie Ocean's Fashion Strategy and Character Analysis
00:03:53
Speaker
Listen, say that we had an arrangement. um There may have been diamonds involved. yeah a big you know a few pieces that came from one piece. A few pieces. Okay, so going tell you my few notes and then I can't wait to hear yours because I didn't even – I think that what you're bringing up, like just skated across. Yeah. I'm sure and everything that I'm, that I will eventually say, you'll be like, yes, I know. So it's not like I'm going to blow anyone's mind.
00:04:25
Speaker
But hey that's where the conversation is. That's why we have mics. We do. So we can share it with the masses. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. So.
00:04:37
Speaker
Yeah, i I just took notes at the very opening of this movie where we open in prison and it's Sandra Bullock who is Debbie Ocean and she's basically telling the parole board like how she's going to be a clean citizen on her way out.
00:04:55
Speaker
And then clang, now she's in regular clothes. yeah clothes She's not in a jumpsuit. She's not a prison jumpsuit. So it worked. She's been released.
00:05:06
Speaker
We saw her in an orange jumpsuit and now she's retrieving everything that she was arrested with. So her personal items. She is in an evening gown that is gorgeous. Beaded and yeah. Yeah. Because it's fucking Sandra Bullock. Yeah. And um she's got like her little purse, like a blazer, you know, she's like got just specifically very nice stuff that she was wearing to a very nice evening. yeah And then she goes from there into a department store and just like steals all these new things by –
00:05:40
Speaker
Lying and saying that she doesn't have the credit card that she purchased stuff with or she doesn't have the receipt. you know and She goes full Karen to get what she wants. Like, massive aggressive,
Fashion as a Tool for Blending and Power Projection
00:05:50
Speaker
not yelling, but like, this is ridiculous.
00:05:52
Speaker
You know, just like yeah really crazy. And she just like games these places, a store, and she gets like all these bags of things, new clothes, all this stuff. And then she does the same thing to a fancy hotel and gets a room. It's pretty incredible.
00:06:08
Speaker
Yeah. But... she Things are immediately heightened beyond like simple jeans or relaxed or sloppy like sloppy clothing, like comfortable clothing with her. And so the the language of clothing is established that like we we follow her. She meets up with Luke, Kate Belanchette, who is also – dressed very specifically though stylish So stylish. yeah these women are all very stylish they are in a spectrum
00:06:39
Speaker
that's a very interesting spectrum of more relaxed to very very like fashion forward fashion consciouscious Yeah. and these are people who read what others wear and they dress very deliberately for themselves but to also convey an image like they are conscientious they're not just dressing to dress they're not dressing for dopamine they're dressing strategically To fit their bodies and also to convey to people that they have a sense of power or that they have a certain level of money, cachet. Right. and It's all like it's part of the con man yes playbook. You got to look the part. It's all a tool. Yeah. And so like some some folks –
00:07:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:30
Speaker
some people are dressed in a more relaxed way so that they can kind of be skipped over and not like stand out necessarily but they do stand out in this crowd yeah when they are dressed in their work comfortable Yeah, everyone has a very clear sense of their personality. Like, everybody is an individual in the movie.
Cultural Critique Through Fashion
00:07:53
Speaker
So, like, when you see them all, like, lined up next to each other, it's like they all have a very specific, like, story to the clothes that they choose. And everything is really...
00:08:04
Speaker
thought out and deliberate like design to like give you character off the bat immediately it's all there and everybody's distinct and it's great it's lovely there's a lot of thought put into it there are a lot of pieces and I'm sure that a lot of those pieces come with a name from a fashion house and um
00:08:26
Speaker
to that because I'm ignorant but like you just know that there's there's money and like that the players who are like higher level con women are playing with very high um amounts of money and so they're trying to channel that they are familiar with money so they have jewelry that's you know from like labeled things like Chanel like all sorts of stuff right Chanel that's not what I'm thinking of per yeah
00:08:57
Speaker
Cartier. Cartier. Cartier. C's, you know what I'm saying? every c is for cookie and for Cartier. And then there are ah Rihanna, Rihanna, who's in this movie, and Awkwafina. And they are...
00:09:13
Speaker
ah hacker and like street hustler a street hustler yeah so they have a different scope of skills and like they're very good at what they do but they're not trying to project the same information totally yeah their way of of running their, going to call it a business when a woman does it. I'm going to call it a business when a woman does it and a crime when a man does it. and I'm with you.
00:09:45
Speaker
But it requires them to still be perceived, but like in a different way.
Privilege and Perception in 'Oceans 8'
00:09:52
Speaker
So it's like, but there's still like a lot of fun happening with the clothes that they wear. It's just very much like more about looking like cool and approachable. me And also easy to ignore. Yes.
00:10:08
Speaker
By certain people. Absolutely. Under the radar. Yeah. So that they can get their job done. Yeah. In and out. Yeah. And like they won't be know necessarily clocked the same way.
00:10:22
Speaker
Mm hmm. doesn't mean that they're any less gorgeous or skilled but it's like playing a different game by absolutely so there's just a lot of different things on display it's like a cartoon cast of characters and avengers if you will where everybody has like a very specific style and um and it's it's just like a lot of heavy hitters and they're all gorgeous i would like to hear your notes Okay. um Yeah, they're really basic. um And you did touch on some of them already. So I'm just going to repeat what you've said, basically.
00:10:56
Speaker
um But yeah, I was really, i was thinking about it specifically in that scene that you mentioned where Sandra Bullock like goes into Bergdorf Goodman's and throws a hissy fit until she can basically like steal openly cosmetics. And ask for a bag. And ask for a bag and be like, it's the least you can do. like um And just thinking about how you really, really have to have white privilege in order to act that way in a luxury store and not be kicked out. And that so much of the type of cons that she ah runs in this movie are available to her because people...
00:11:37
Speaker
believe that she's like this wealthy well-to-do woman who doesn't need to steal their money so she can steal their money and just how like being like beautiful and white really makes that easy and is like a tool in your tool belt that some people are born with um and then thinking about later in the movie the characters that are trying to blend in and just sort of like The things that we expect, like the jobs that we expect people to be doing and therefore ignore them. Like when Rihanna is posing as like a janitor and she goes into the like conference room of all of the like white men talking about like security at the Met. Yeah.
00:12:22
Speaker
And they just keep talking even though she's in the room because they don't expect her to be listening. They don't see They don't see her. And, like, she knows that. And so she's, like, using that strategically.
00:12:37
Speaker
by ah And then like later in the movie, when they're actually like conducting the heist, obviously like the things that they're doing are based on the skills that they have and like how they fit into the team. But like you don't think twice about Awkwafina as a young Asian woman being like a cater waiter like at the Met Gala. And you don't think twice about Mindy Kaling being like in the kitchen washing dishes and like obviously their clothing, their demeanor, like they understand how to like fit into these spaces and they're good at stealing and being con artists and whatever. Conducting business. Conducting business, being an entrepreneur, i think being a woman in business. um
00:13:22
Speaker
But just thinking about how like, you know, ah like Sarah Paulson's job requires her getting like hired onto the event planning team at the Met Gala because she knows how to move through these spaces and like have people believe that she belongs there.
00:13:42
Speaker
And it's just kind of made me think about it, especially because... ah The original trilogy of like Oceans 11, 12, 13, I think are more white than this version in terms of like the diversity of the cast. Yeah.
00:14:03
Speaker
There's a lot of white guys. And like, I love Ocean's Eleven. I think it's possibly like a perfect film. Like I've seen it like 20 times. I love that movie. I haven't seen it since it came out.
00:14:14
Speaker
Oh, I love it so much. I won't, I won't defend Ocean's Twelve and I'll only like half-heartedly defend Ocean's Thirteen. But I love Ocean's Eleven. it I think it's great. But there's 11 them and we have like nine white guys plus like Don Cheadle and the actor whose name I do not know that plays like an acrobat who is Chinese and I don't know his name because I think that he might be an actual like acrobat that doesn't do a lot of like like regular acting gigs perhaps but it's just nice to see more women working yeah I'll say that agree so
00:14:59
Speaker
But it's also like a factor of making the movie in 2001 opposed to like 2018. So I don't know. And the acrobat came back for this one. Yeah. Same actor, same character.
00:15:12
Speaker
What did he do? Did he actually? he was, it was in um after Daphne joins the team and they're explaining, oh, we didn't just steal one necklace. We stole yeah all all of them. And so they hired, Cate Blanchett went to go talk to an old friend who was an acrobat. That's right. That's right. he came in and and did the job with with them.
00:15:36
Speaker
And so that was him. I totally forgot that. I watched this movie like yesterday. So that's. why i wasn sort That will be my excuse. um But yeah, I just it's just I feel like the movie doesn't necessarily comment on that stuff, but it's present. And I feel like it is kind of in there, whether they call it out specifically. i feel like it's just kind of baked in.
00:16:03
Speaker
So i don't know. it just I was thinking about it because I feel like we should um like overthrow the ruling class and bring power to the people. Down with the patriarchy. yeah um So yeah, it just was like I was just thinking about that more watching this because that was the mood that I was in.
00:16:25
Speaker
So um I definitely enjoyed enjoyed
00:16:35
Speaker
this movie because of all of that yeah they're trying to answer exactly like you said just a bunch of white when oceans 11 12 13 and i i remember that when this movie came out there was a little bit of like a this is like the woke oceans like nobody needed that it's like you didn't need shut up i need to do yeah I love this movie. i Who asked you? Right? Like I was very delighted when this movie came out. i felt i felt um
00:17:08
Speaker
happy. like what I thought it was very like fun. i enjoy watching it. I watched it a couple times. I've enjoyed it every time. but I thought it was fun because it's like it's all these women and I'm always down for that. I'm always curious about it.
00:17:20
Speaker
And they're stealing money from a very wealthy institution. So yeah i'm I have no problem with that. Also, like, you know, i mean, we don't even need to get into the ethics of like diamond production, but like, I don't feel bad. We could, which is, yeah, I don't feel bad about that at all. Like, oh it's it's all blood money. And so, okay, you want to take that on?
00:17:43
Speaker
Have at it.
The Met Gala's Role and Cultural Significance
00:17:45
Speaker
And like, you didn't...
00:17:49
Speaker
force people to cut those diamonds, but you are you know redistributing it into the world and breaking it down yeah from people being able to use it as like a look how amazing we are for this one necklace in all the lives.
00:18:05
Speaker
Especially since it was like sitting in a basement vault for like 50 years. It's like, yeah what is the point of these things even existing if they're just sort of like whispered about and like fabled? No, it's so crazy. and also um they were all so smart.
00:18:20
Speaker
ah They earned it as far as I'm concerned. They earned it. um I enjoy that this movie. i i enjoy like I ah am reiterating what you said already. I enjoy that this movie centers around the Met Gala. It does feel like it could have potentially been like girls like clothes, but it doesn't feel like that at all. it just felt like a great opportunity to do something no one would expect to happen. Yeah, it felt like a good mechanism for the movie. yeah In that they have all this celebrity, all this stuff. And like we all identify, at least here in the US, we identify them at Gala with a presentation of money and fashion. And like it does go to
00:19:06
Speaker
What is the money? What is they raising money for? it goes to fund the institute within the Met that does the conservation of the clothing and textiles. Yeah, so it's going to something, but we also recognize it as this is just a disgusting, sometimes disgusting display of...
00:19:26
Speaker
sometimes disgusting like display of many different things that are a part of our celebrity culture and so there are a lot of feelings about the Met Gala to say that diplomatically there are a lot of feelings and and I was um I was just there ah this past week uh I went to the Met I went to see the the costume exhibit uh I was very happy to and It was a very interesting exhibit. I think I liked last year's better. that it was Last year's was about black dandyism. That's right. That was exciting. That one was exciting. Really exquisite. Really beautifully done. This one was about how fashion... ah
00:20:10
Speaker
it mirrors and takes inspiration from other art forms so it was it was interesting like presented with like here's like a couture or historical garment and here's like a classical painting that like references or like here's like some historical piece of like armor and that like there was like a whole Grecian thing uh it was very beautiful there's a giant plaque when you walk in that says that the major donors of this year's exhibit are jeff and lauren bezos
00:20:47
Speaker
And that was kind of a big thing that they were at the Met Gala this year and they got absolutely trashed online because they wore the most so most boring clothes I've ever seen.
00:20:59
Speaker
And they deserve every second of it. There was a conversation. Now, listen, I understand that I'm a very simple person that enters into very complicated conversations and I frequently don't carry all the different things.
00:21:13
Speaker
aspects of context or perspective into conversations. And that's just how it's going to be. It's been that way since circa 1987. I don't think it's going to change. So there was an interesting kind ah conversation that happened online with some folks that I follow who, um,
00:21:33
Speaker
are a variety of like historical costumers, people who were a part of Costube, which kind of reached its height in like 2020. And also some folks who have connections to um fashion industry because they have, they own or run or work in fashion houses of their own that are specialized. um And there was someone who, there were a few people who brought up this conversation and they're not from the U.S. So this was a different perspective from outside of the U.S. that I had like a visceral reaction to. Okay.
00:22:14
Speaker
Mostly thinking of because I think that he he made a post and brought this up about Lauren Bezos. And like I said, I had a real... reaction to it because he was trying to and it was about the Met Gala, I think. And um he was like
00:22:36
Speaker
intellectualizing people's disgusts with her and And I don't know what the conversation was around the Met Gala because I wasn't really listening. I really do try to avoid it unless it's like last year's theme. Then I was more curious. Yeah. But um it's just not for me. um but why you I do follow it. so it is for me somewhat. Yeah. I'm not going to cast judgment. Of course. Very frequently i feel like – I get frustrated with the lack of um nuance in some of the conversations that happen. So I just tend to avoid it so that I don't just like piss everybody off and annoy everyone around me. um
00:23:17
Speaker
So he was asking... Like, why does she... I'm going to read a little bit from his post. Like, why does she provoke such visceral hatred? Because she's tasteless or because she's visible? Because she's married one of the richest men on earth or because she didn't come wrapped in the quiet codes of inherited aristocracy? People are more comfortable forgiving. And so he was talking about this perspective...
00:23:39
Speaker
of like he also says to all the people based in america complaining about her supporting trump where on earth were you when he was re-elected and so i'm just like this is a very complicated thing yeah for a perspective from somebody who's not from here yeah and he's i think there was a whole conversation in this thread with other people joining where they were talking about the misogyny thrown her way And like kind of trying to do this thing of like justifying evil. Like like we're talking about women ah supporting women's women's rights and wrongs, right? Like in this movie, we're like, yeah, fucking women doing thievery and heist. Do crimes. That's business. Yeah. Be gay do crimes. Like, you know, all this stuff.
00:24:27
Speaker
But in this conversation, people were, I believe, very lost in the sauce. Yeah. And so the idea that like that I would have animosity towards her, but not Mr. Jeff Bezos is completely incorrect. Like, and the, the level of what these people are responsible for.
00:24:47
Speaker
And like, yeah, so this is, these are the conversations that come to me when I see Met Gala,
Wealth, Ethics, and Societal Responsibilities
00:24:53
Speaker
right? Because usually the people who are tapped to be part of it are people who are of a certain class. It's not just celebrity. It's celebrity plus. Yeah, it's money and power, because money and power go hand in hand. And so it was very interesting for me to like read that conversation and kind of like try to percolate on it and be like,
00:25:13
Speaker
I guess you can intellectualize it like that from a different country, but at the same time, the evils that Amazon is doing is also affecting you. i don't It's a global evil. It's not an American evil. don't really know why we're separating this. like yeah Was it Ava Braun who was with Hitler? Yeah. You know what I mean? There are...
00:25:32
Speaker
there are women, people who identify as women, who are just as capable of being as evil and shitty as people who identify as men. And I'm sure that there are people who are just misogynistic and decide to like brush people away. But there to me, there doesn't have to be a depth to that.
00:25:50
Speaker
You've aligned yourself with evil. I don't give a fuck how you dress yourself. I don't care if it's classy. you are lower than dirt to call you dirt is to insult dirt because you have no respect for this world or its people yeah it's it's fascinating because like i don't see a lot of hate out there for mackenzie scott uh jeff bezos ex-wife i think that i think i'm i think that's her name i believe it yeah i know her first name is mackenzie um because she's going around like donating
00:26:26
Speaker
billions of dollars left and right because it's all of the money that she got in the divorce from Jeff Bezos. So, i mean, obviously i would prefer a world where we have like a robust society that takes care of people and we don't need to rely on the charity of rich people to like supplement. You know what I mean? um So it's not plan a as far as I'm concerned, but like I'm glad when people who have a lot of money,
00:26:56
Speaker
We'll give it to people that need help and the money can help them. like Yeah, and i I appreciate it when people – because no billionaire shoulds it should exist. There is no ethical billionaire, period. I don't care if they're favorite. There is no ethical billionaire.
00:27:11
Speaker
And to have that kind of amount of money, which does equal power, and to just sit on it is to choose – evil.
00:27:25
Speaker
Because all the things you could do with it, you could save lives, even if you could save one life. It's like the trolley experiment, but they're like, what if we just let everyone die and I went on vacation
Depiction of Fashion in the Film vs. Reality
00:27:36
Speaker
instead? and I just bought a castle. That would be great.
00:27:41
Speaker
Or 25. 100 castles, and they're all mine. um but like So the Met the met Gala is is very complicated because it is one of these events that I mean, it is it is a fundraiser technically. i think that people like to pretend that it's not. I'm not going to defend that it's like this great benevolent thing. no it's you know It's an occasion for these wealthy people to come together and put wealth on display because it draws more eyes on it. It's also it's fascinating to me how short-lived that
00:28:13
Speaker
truly is. like If you look at at like red carpet photos of the Met Gala, even from 20 years ago, it's nothing like what it is oh now. Red carpets.
00:28:26
Speaker
That's a fascinating thing, right? Because you look at red carpets from the 80s and the 90s, before celebrity... like Celebrity over the past century has done strange things, right? Because like paparazzi, tabloids, social media, the internet, all of these things took what existed at very different shapes and then blew it into astronomically large, obsessive things. yeah And um so like red carpets are so interesting and are I feel pertinent to this because it's not a movie about red carpets, but it is a movie about the red carpet of the Met Gala, which is a big...
00:29:04
Speaker
event yeah and like it it ties in because like back then you look at old pictures and like people always laugh at like the Britney Spears Justin Timberlake denim on denim on denim but like that was them experimenting with style and doing what was fashionable adventurous but fashionable for the moment and it was taking a risk but like It was all just black suits.
00:29:34
Speaker
Black suits. And like a tasteful gown. Yeah, it taste but usually in black. Like there were years and years where everybody was just in black on red carpets. And then it started to get more adventurous. And there were pretty tasteless moments. And there were like people like to make fun of Bjork um being on a red carpet in the swan dress. Yeah. But that's also considered pretty iconic now. yeah And it's like there people were being mocked for doing weird things that were really just high fashion or experimental fashion.
00:30:06
Speaker
And now if you don't do that – Yeah, they're like people are like, oh, so boring. You couldn't even do anything. Like we're getting into the like Hunger Games of it all in terms of like world. are very much heading toward like where're we're courting Hunger Games territory. yeah And so what's funny is that this Met Gala for the movie is pretty fucking tame.
00:30:29
Speaker
It's quite tame and it was I wanted a little bit of information and I couldn't really find it in the like five minutes that I spent trying to look for it. And then i didn't look anymore. um But there's there's quite a bit of of like random footage everything.
00:30:46
Speaker
actual like celebrities at the met and i was curious like whether it was like footage from 2018 because like there's very very obviously like a gaggle of kardashians at one point and like a chaos of just uh fleet aos i don't know i like chaos gotta spell it with a k um And like other like notifiable celebrities that are not characters in this movie because obviously like several of the actors in this movie have very obviously been at multiple Met Gallows and done really iconic stuff. I'm looking at Rihanna when I say that. yeah um Anne Hathaway, Cate Blanchett, these are – and Helena Bonham Carter. These are all people who –
00:31:38
Speaker
are known for being in fashion. Absolutely. Which is, on their right I think, a delightful layer yeah to this movie. um ah But i i would put Rihanna in like the stratosphere in terms of Met Gala because she she shows up every time that she goes. But I think she hasn't been in a few years but um yeah I was curious whether they used like b-roll from the actual gala one year or i assume that a bunch of celebrities didn't want to get like fully glammed up to be like at glorified extras in this movie because I thought about that too I was like did you pay these actors because like that would be astronomically expensive yeah
00:32:30
Speaker
And it was very obviously like the real, like it, I don't know where they filmed it.
Heist Scene Analysis and Costume Dynamics
00:32:35
Speaker
It looked like the Met. They did a good job if it wasn't. yeah. but Yeah, it was pretty interesting. Like, I do wonder how they made it happen. yeah And then i also did they say what the theme was?
00:32:52
Speaker
hello Oh, I think it was related to I think they said at one point Anne Hathaway said that the theme was like European royalty, which doesn't really sound like an actual Met Gala theme at all. It's also a very boring thing because yeah the most exciting thing that we see are three things, in my opinion.
00:33:14
Speaker
I'm wondering if you have a different opinion. But when you're entering in into the gala, all of this, like there's this whole rows of staff on the either other side of the staircase that are dressed in like 18th century livery, basically. And um I don't remember if they have like the little wigs, but they might. in my heart, and they do. Yeah. And they're also like, you know, in like pastels, like sweet colors.
00:33:39
Speaker
And they're not all matching. I think it's like all different colors, but kind of like in the same like temperature of colors. And then once you get inside, know,
00:33:50
Speaker
There's not a single person dressed like that to be seen. Right. Everybody, all staff are in black or like glittery black. And then there are these really interesting um mannequins that almost seem like they're made out of paper that are yeah holding.
00:34:07
Speaker
the jewels and and they're all like monochrome like a dusty dark blue dusty is such a good word for it yeah they're they're very dark and then they like are these women who have like the silhouettes of french royalty in different states of dress or like as if like panniers had like the cages had started to like disappear and And so it's like, you know, hairstyles on those and on these like men and maybe women too, like lining the stairs on entrance.
00:34:39
Speaker
And, and those two things were like visually interesting. And then Anne Hathaway's... cape yeah it's like super dramatic and long and has some sequin work or beading happening and then there's like some beading popping up on some people's clothes and like some capes situations but they're not super long they're not as long as Anne Hathaway's But that's pretty much it. well Yeah. Everything else is kind of lovely evening wear. Yeah.
00:35:11
Speaker
yeah It's just like tying them together is just shiny stuff. It's just shiny stuff. It's it's because Rihanna was not there. Nineball was there, but Rihanna was not there till like level And when Nineball stepped out as essentially Rihanna, like in this like red gown, it was like, there she is. There she is. That's not Met Gala, Rihanna. That's pretty calm. That's like maybe the outfit underneath the outfit. um And like all the all the heist, our business women, they all leave the heist in evening gowns so that they they meld in with the crowd. And everybody has like a loving shot yes to show these outfits that they've changed into. And like my favorite of them all, because they're they're also displaying all the pieces of jewelry
00:35:58
Speaker
that were um made from the one big necklace. Yes. Because ameda slash... Cut that thing up in the kitchen bathroom. Yeah, she cut it up in the bathroom. And like Mindy Kaling, her character Amita has this like, everything has been converted into like tools. It's pretty amazing. But she's just like in there, no stress. She's just the most professional cutting different pieces of jewelry. And they all have incredibly gorgeous looks. Like they all look so stunning.
00:36:29
Speaker
But then you see Cate Blanchett. She's not even in the gala. She's outside. And she's meeting Sandra Bullock's character. And she has... It's like a peacock jumpsuit. It's all sequins. And it it like in my mind, it was blues and greens. Yeah, I think so.
00:36:48
Speaker
Oh, with like a deep V. Right. and There's no reason for her to be in it at all. other than that we needed to see it. We needed And it's just like, okay, thanks for that. and also what an amazing jumpsuit. Like I love this jumpsuit. And Sandra Bullock's.
00:37:06
Speaker
She also has kind of a cape situation in her dress. She's got like a wooden shoulder. it's all embroidered, beaded. And I'm a sucker for finishing like that.
00:37:17
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, my God. but but But these characters are the ones with the most exciting stuff. Everybody – like not everybody. There are a few people that have beaded or sequined stuff. Yes. But a lot of people who are supposed to be this gallery just wearing – Evening gals. Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting choice because it is an event that that someone coming to see the movie could very well be familiar with and be like, OK, like, yeah, like what about the.
00:37:49
Speaker
The year when the theme was heavenly bodies and everyone showed up dressed as like fucked up members of the Catholic Church. Like Rihanna came dressed as the Pope. like Yeah, I feel like as somebody who's like pretty ignorant of the timeline, i feel like the Met Gala became something else when Rihanna like started showing up.
00:38:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think she was definitely a driving force. I'm trying to remember like the first time that she was there. I would i think for me, the most famous... outfit that she wore was the the guopé honestly the yellow that everyone turned into like an egg yolk on the red carpet but I was thinking a lot about Anne Hathaway's cape in this movie because I was like people that go to the Met Gala love a damn cape because when he stares there's so many stairs and I feel like it's different than other red carpet outfits
00:38:55
Speaker
be events because of that giant staircase. And so people just cannot get enough of a train. yeah it's an event where people are... kind of designing pieces for the location. Yeah. They're designing it the way that I feel like mega millionaires are designing like their wedding gowns like to look a certain way at a certain space. And so... absolutely it's It's a display of art. It's a display of the art of the fashion and then a person is wearing that, you know? like Yeah. And so it's... Yeah. I was a little bit like...
00:39:35
Speaker
What's going on here? Why don't we have any crazier engineered outfits? Why don't we have anybody dressed as European royalty meets now with extreme... was just like, oh, this is a moment that was a little bit missed. All we are doing with this is we are elevating the main characters so that we can spot them in a crowd. And I was just like, oh,
00:40:02
Speaker
ok well The only kind of justification that I could come up for with that is that the theme was so much more in terms of like what we saw and what the movie has to offer. The theme is so much more about the jewelry yeah than the actual clothing. So like I was really thinking about that watching the movie this time and the emphasis on all of the characters in the movie having tons of jewelry on all the time. All the time. Like statement necklace on statement necklace on statement necklace. Like there's so many accessories. Yeah. Really thick watches, like designer watches with bracelets. Like tracking all of this. Yeah. tracking. Because I'm sure that like with Devil Wears Prada where things are lent –
00:40:51
Speaker
from fashion houses so that they have a presence in the movie or are bought, you know, at a discount. But this is coming at a different time from Devil Wears Prada. Right. Where now these actresses have ah a very big level of like cachet because they display these clothes. Right. right so it's like i don't i wonder if like the relationship to costuming high fashion has evolved from devil wears prada to oceans eight and just being able to reach out and say may we like right are there things that you would be able to like lend to us that are and maybe they're like different or higher whatever but like yeah
00:41:32
Speaker
It's an opportunity for the actors. Right. Right. And the actors might have independent relationships with them. Like if they've, you know, like, I don't know if any of them specifically have.
00:41:48
Speaker
But I'm like, if you told me that, you know, Cate Blanchett had a contract where she did like modeling shoots for like, oh you know. Armani or whatever. yeah Anyone. Literally anyone. i would be like, yeah, that makes sense. I feel like most most of these actresses have done like a commercial for ah some jewelry, some perfume, yeah you know. And yeah like, of course, they're wearing...
00:42:13
Speaker
designers on red carpets and these are mega stars so like they've been doing it for years and years and years so i would be so shocked if they didn't have specific relationships with specific houses yeah so it's like they're not just going to be wearing some like random little chain like every chain I'm assuming is something that has to be insured. You know what i mean? Like, yeah, like all of these pieces. We're playing out the movie in real life. Yeah.
Fashion and Character Storytelling
00:42:40
Speaker
So it's like tracking that,
00:42:43
Speaker
Because, of course, I've never worked on something that level. So it's like me either yeah having not worked something that level, I'm like, ooh, stressful. I know. I'm like, I would not want to. and much rather do a show where they're like, we're going to make all the costumes out of garbage. I'd be like, let's do it. Let's get crafty. Already in the dumpster. like i but Also, I do think it would be really fun to start a jewelry line where all of the jewelry made out of safety pins, the way the mock-up of the necklace was made. Which, the way, like I saw that the first time and I was like, that's pretty clever yeah to like mock that shit up with some safety pins. like Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:22
Speaker
Okay. It's very punk. It seemed very very Helena Bonham Carter-esque to like do that. like that detail. Yeah, it was it was perfect because I was like, yeah, everything is centered around this necklace. The dress is kind of an afterthought. The necklace is the feature. So you would need it to have a presence. I also thought it was pretty funny that Helena Bonham Carter's character, the designer, the way they described her work was like...
00:43:51
Speaker
Oh, it's like outdated, but it's all that it's all that stuff that was like Edwardian colors and things like that, right? And I think it's funny because like Rihanna actually, when they were, i think, on the press tour for this. Yes. And Graham Norton, think. Yeah. Like they're talking about, maybe it's the Met Gala that Helen the Bobbottom is like, yeah, I've never been invited or something. And Rihanna's like, yeah, because you wear dresses like that one. That's so funny.
00:44:16
Speaker
That moment is so brutal and so funny. but it was also so like, you know, the way that you razz somebody that you enjoy. Like you're not actually trying to like destroy this person and Rihanna could like Totally. Absolutely. eviscerate Someone if she wanted to. But she's like, yeah, because you're wearing wacky shit like that. Yeah, because like Helena Bonham Carter for years and years and years has been known as kind of like this alternative fashion person. Yeah. She's like a goth princess. Yeah. Yeah, she's like a feral raccoon goth from the forest. And she does what she wants. And she dresses for herself.
00:44:56
Speaker
And so i kind of liked that that's what her character, like those were her designs that were
Anne Hathaway's Performance and Humor
00:45:02
Speaker
like that. And that people are like, oh, but... And that she's like, the the line that she's trying to show to like revitalize her career a little bit or turn it around is like the most...
00:45:15
Speaker
boring straight laced like so bad attendant 60s wear like in the world soulless it's just like oh my god of course that would be her like worst nightmare and she's like i don't know maybe people will buy this jesus And I love Anne Hathaway's performance in this movie. yeah Like, what a dream to play the most annoying version of what people probably think that you're like. Like, can anything be better than being a petty, spoiled who just...
00:45:52
Speaker
who just Doesn't seem to have any kind of like she just seems like she does anything in the moment that seems like the way to get what she wants. like And also to chase dopamine. She's like, I don't know. bored. Let's do this. let's Let's be part of a heist. Yeah. i I also love that her character is kind of like.
00:46:21
Speaker
the most energy in this movie because like this is an unfair comparison but I'm gonna make it so I don't know how familiar you are with the Fast and Furious franchise I'm quite familiar okay so as professionals in this field that's right yeah uh the Fast Five um Those movies are like caricatures of themselves, right? Like they're bonkers. And like when they started, they were already ridiculous. Yes. And Vin Diesel was already ridiculous. But now he's like... Cartoon. Like it's just insane. like Yeah. Cartoonish it is.
00:46:57
Speaker
There's this like idea that flatness equals toughness. Mm-hmm. Or that flatness ah is...
00:47:08
Speaker
like the most professional, the most like underground, like whatever it is, it's like, I'm not going to give you anything. Yeah. And that's kind of a little bit like what some of these characters are doing.
00:47:20
Speaker
And because we have eight kind of main characters, like we have, you know, Sandra Bullock, who's, we're kind of doing this like through her POV, like we're following her through it. Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:34
Speaker
all of these other women at work. And so to have a lot of that level be the temperature that we're working at, it's it's kind of nice to not just have one character be like, oh, I have like some pithy lines.
00:47:52
Speaker
Oh, I have some comedic lines. Yeah. Because that's Rihanna and that's Awkwafina. And to not just have that be the other thing, but to have this like hammy character. yeah Because we also do have Helena Bonham Carter, but it's it's just like, i don't know, there's like a certain temperature that this movie was like set at that needed like...
00:48:18
Speaker
a little bit extra however it was written and they just kind of like landed most of that on Anne Hathaway's character. And she carries it so well. Like i feel like she doesn't get to play that type of character super often in her career. She's sort of like playing the level that the other women are kind of put into a lot of the time. So for her to kind of get to be the obnoxious one, i think, I feel like she's really enjoying herself in the thing. And it's like really infectious to watch because you're like, this person's having fun doing this. She gets to be a little bit of a beast and show off that she's actually kind of smart because we're not supposed to assume that the whole time. I think my favorite moment with her in the entire movie is when she's being sort of questioned by, ah unfortunately, James Corden in this movie. The only depressing part about this movie his presence. Well, another one was that one of the guards of the insured necklace is like an IDF.
00:49:27
Speaker
Oh, ex IDF soldier. And that I was like, I didn't know that. that Yeah. It was like Mossad and like an ex IDF. And they're like, I think he's an assassin. And I was like, ew, gross. Yeah. Yikes. Let's not just say that. That's worth interrogation. Yuck. Right. So my prejudices are showing. No, that's fair. i let that moment slip past me. I like didn't absorb it at all. Yeah.
00:49:51
Speaker
But I love when James Corden is kind of interrogating her and he's like, you know, clearly he loves being an insurance investigator. And so he kind of concludes his little speech with saying like, oh, like, I love my job. And Anne Hathaway just has this really genuine moment where she's like, I love my job, too. like she's so...
00:50:15
Speaker
happy in that moment. It's such a like genuine little like little line that could be it could be nothing, but she like makes it so good. ah delightful yeah this this could have been like a really dry movie, you know?
00:50:33
Speaker
But I feel like it's not like the best movie in the world. It doesn't stick with me. It's not going to stick with me the way that like other other movies do. But I feel like it's super well executed and the style of it is fucking fantastic. and like Yeah. i think It's a good time.
00:50:49
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good time. And I feel like these characters... At least some of them are conscientious. No, they're all conscientious of how they walk in the world. That's why they choose to manipulate the things that they do because they know the skills that they have.
00:51:01
Speaker
And I feel like the costumes really feed into that and tell that story from moment one. Like the second that that orange jumpsuit is gone. She could have been in jeans and a sweatshirt, but she was in a fucking evening gown. like It's great.
00:51:17
Speaker
It did make me wonder, right? Like I did think about that because I was like, um if you're getting released from prison and you've been there, because she's been in prison for like, I think five five years. I don't know that they would give you your clothes back like that. I don't know that that's a thing. But I was like, I honestly don't care because it's perfect.
00:51:41
Speaker
I also don't know for sure, but I think that it's not, it's not wrong. Yeah. Like, if it doesn't fit, think that they probably put you in, like, a sweatsuit or something, you know? But think at certain point, I think they, like, release your personal items back to, like, somebody else. And they, like, don't have – like, I don't think they're storing your personal items for, like, five years. don't know.
00:52:04
Speaker
I don't know. But i did I honestly, like, I don't care. And it's also one of those things, like – I feel like there's no rhyme or reason to how like any jurisdiction does anything. So it could be, who knows? ah It's also a movie. So anything. Yeah. It was the perfect storytelling
Film's Style, Homage, and Franchise Potential
00:52:20
Speaker
moment. And it was impactful because it tells you immediately what kind of cons she's running.
00:52:26
Speaker
And it it very much echoes the way, like the opening is a direct echo of how Ocean's Eleven opens with George Clooney's character. Like it does the exact same thing. He's in front of the parole board. he gets released. He's wearing like a tux with like the bow tie, like undone, very rat pack, cool guy. And then she mirrors that at the end. At the very end. Yeah.
00:52:51
Speaker
Which i I thought that was like, pretty nice and subtle like it wasn't loud and out there we're doing this because of her brother but like she's in front of his supposed because i don't know if we know for sure that he's dead um uh memorial yeah uh wall yeah and like crematorium not the crematorium but like the thing where they file you away And there's like a bench right in front and she has a martini and she has like, thought it was like one solid olive in this tiny little jar. It might be like a couple, but she like brought a picnic martini already made in a shaker. She's got the glass and a little jar and she plucks out one olive, which I thought was hilarious. And yeah, she's got the the undone bow tie.
00:53:46
Speaker
like the button undone in the shirt and it's just like what'd she say he would have loved this and then cut Yeah. And i it was interesting because I feel like they were leaving the door open to make more than they just didn't for yeah of probably a variety of reasons. I think a variety of reasons but also just like rampant misogyny. Yeah, absolutely. The internet ruins everything. And like seeing women on screen makes some people so fucking angry. yeah and it's like this was a stylish movie. was all these women who are fashionable women and who have modeled
00:54:24
Speaker
consistently for like a long time for big names. And to see them just like, yeah, we do that. Dress us and put us out there. And then we're going to do our other job, which is act. It's like, right.
00:54:36
Speaker
fantastic. yes It was a fun ride. And it's, I think for me, it gave me what Devil Wears Prada gives other folks. Totally. Not to the the legend legendary status that like people carry with that, but it was that level of of working with within the fashion world and getting pieces to put on people.
00:54:57
Speaker
yeah I think that it was like pretty fun. And when you go on IMDb, the amount of wardrobe ah staff crew that are listed it's pretty long love that um oh my god we didn't even talk about the designer of this movie designer hello designer sarah edwards who is known for excuse me severance did ah episodes love i'm going to call out things that i recognize um Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Out of the Shadows. Billions, the TV series. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. The Secret Life of Walter Mitty.
00:55:33
Speaker
Tower Heist. So another. oh I feel like several of these have Ben Stiller involved. yes Salt. When in Rome. Ghost Town. Michael Clayton. So that's another George Clooney. Interesting. interesting um The Interpreter. Uptown Girls. Igby Goes Down.
00:55:50
Speaker
Jack Frost. Yeah. The Devil's Advocate way back in 97. Like there's a variety of work here. And it's so it's very fun seeing people's CVs and
Sarah Edwards' Costume Design and Next Episode Preview
00:56:01
Speaker
seeing the different things. Because like sometimes people get like boxed in pretty early, either kind of by their choice or not.
00:56:09
Speaker
And then there's some people who just have like super varied things. Yeah. Like – It's exciting. Ninja Turtles. I mean, like, come Yeah. Oceans 8.
00:56:23
Speaker
Like Severance. How many different ways can you make Officeware unsettling? She found all of them. Severance. yeah If you haven't seen Severance, I recommend.
00:56:35
Speaker
Do yourself a favor. Yes. Get in. Yeah. so this was a fun movie. And this is a fun one um for looking at...
00:56:48
Speaker
So many different skills on display. Because I i don't feel like i want to call out the embroidery and the beading in this one the way that I do in other things. Because they're kind of like... They don't necessarily stand out in this as much as they do in other films. Yeah. um They're gorgeous. but like But it's more kind of like the... The character exploration and the layering of the clothes that these characters choose to wear is just like one of those skills that's on display that's really, really cool of like knowing a character inside and out and building that character and making them feel convincing. Even if they're like in a dirty basement. Yeah, they still choose to wear like a leopard print blouse with like 800 necklaces because they need to look a certain type of way when doing business.
00:57:44
Speaker
I think there's like a line that Sandra Bullock, I can't remember if it's her Kate Blanchett has about like somewhere out there is an eight year old girl, like dreaming about being a criminal. and I'm like, please inspire that eight year old girl, please. Thank you. As a matter of fact, yeah like get out there, kid.
00:58:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's a fun movie. And yeah, there's some of the stuff to look at and interrogate that you brought up earlier about the privilege on display for these characters and, you know.
00:58:16
Speaker
how different characters totally know how they walk in the world and how they can camouflage themselves and how they can, ah show themselves to their marks. Like it's just, we can all learn a lesson. yeah It's a heist romp. Yeah.
00:58:32
Speaker
Um, delightful. Um, so where do we go from here? Okay. The question was, where do we go from here? The answer is that next week we will be covering a movie that I'm excited for because I have not seen it, even though I have wanted to. didn't realize that part. Yeah. I'm excited to dive in. It's been one that I was like, oh, that looks fun. I want to go. and then I just didn't. So we will be covering the Emma Stone vehicle.
00:59:08
Speaker
ah Cruella about the origin story of Cruella de Vil, how an icon was born.
00:59:20
Speaker
ah I don't know what else to say about it other than i can't wait to see her make a coat out of puppies. but Okay. I'm very excited to see your experience of this movie. I think I watched it on an airplane. Okay. It will be nice to not watch it on an airplane. Yeah. um And there's a few costumes in there that I cannot wait to hear your opinion on. Yeah.
00:59:46
Speaker
And so this is kind of like a nice return to like a fantasy, fantastical world that's a cousin to reality, but totally is very, very, very heightened. And so there's going to be a lot to talk about. This is actually going to be the Met Gala that I wished existed in this movie, I think. There's going to be some stuff on display. So looking forward to it. Join us in that episode, if you will. Please. Thanks for listening. See you next time. bye