Transcript
Speaker: I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
Speaker: Hello. Welcome back to another episode with us, your costuming friends. Oh boy. Are we in the 80s or what? This is the year of our birth, I believe. Mannequin 1987. true vintage. Yeah.
Speaker: ah true vintage I am going to start, I'm going to kick us off by reading the synopsis, and this is going to be a treat. You're welcome in advance, because I'm not opting to read the one sentence slash two sentence version IMDb. I'm reading the second option, which is from MGM, United Artists Home Video. It's a paragraph.
Speaker: It's a paragraph. Get close to the mic. This is my synopsis voice. Can't wait. Down on his luck artist, Jonathan Switcher, bounces from one dead-end job to another, never managing to hold on to any of them. but But everything changes when he builds a mannequin, which he falls in love with. It is the first thing he has made that has made him feel like a real artist. Much to his surprise, Jonathan discovers the mannequin prominently displayed in the window of Prince and Company department store.
Speaker: When he saves the life of an old lady who happens to be the owner of that store, he's rewarded by getting a job as a stock boy. The mannequin later comes to life as Emma, Emmy, Hessire, who was an an ancient Egyptian princess,
Speaker: Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Who was an ancient Egyptian princess living in the year 2514 BC. Gorgeous and vivacious, this femme fatale helps Jonathan turn his career around, inspiring him to become the best window dresser in town. But Emmy soon discovers that the real world is not very dear when they run into competitors who want to bring them out of business for good. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.
Speaker: Oh, intrigue. So, okay. Hello, Melinda. Hi, Ariel. This was your first watch of this movie? yeah This was my first time. I had never seen this movie before.
Speaker: Impressions. Feelings. Takeaways. Um, the biggest surprise to me watching the film plot wise was that I did not realize that she was going to be going back and forth between being alive and being a mannequin. i assumed this was like a princess and the frog situation where, cause I knew that he was going to, yeah, i I knew he was going to kiss her. and I was like, very curious to see how they're going to make this seem not creepy.
Speaker: um And I thought she was just going to be alive after that. And it was going to be the type of movie where it's like, oh, my God, I have to learn how to be a human. but that wasn't what the movie was. It was much more about like, yeah, like the Greek muses and inspiration and psychosis.
Speaker: This is a movie about a pervert. A lovable pervert. That's how they treat him. whole movie too. Because like he starts off, we see him building a mannequin and and in a department store. Yeah. And he is so proud of himself when he's like 90% done building her. And you would think building a mannequin, not that hard. Head, torso, arms, legs, hair.
Speaker: Right. um There's a face pre-built onto the head, I'm assuming. But did he sculpt the vase? Yeah. I think that it's implied. i i Maybe it is.
Speaker: i don't know, though. think Because he keeps talking about being a sculptor, but I don't know if he has the opportunity to actually fully sculpt here. Yeah, we don't see that. Because he's also saying...
Speaker: oh, I can probably pump out three or four of these like a week. No, he says a month. A month. And then his boss is like, you're supposed to do three or four these a day. Yeah. That's why I'm thinking that the the implication is that he may have sculpted the face. Okay. I'm with you then. Because like I was not under that impression before, it but that's literally because I did and no thinking about this movie. They don't show that to you the no The opening shot of the movie is him and a fully done mannequin like head torso. Like you don't see him do anything. No, you don't see him do any of the work, which is like, well, that's a misstep because then we actually might have respected him as a character a little bit more than if he just was like pulling from a bucket of pre-made mannequins. Also, the movie is so short. It's not like they don't have time. No. It's like we could have done something to bolster this character as like a full, fully realized human being. Yeah. But then we – was it – did we open on that or did we open on Egypt? Oh, my God. Okay. Yeah. So we – we did open and ancient Egypt. So really quick.
Speaker: I – this is a movie. We've talked about this before on different movies. ah Beverly Hills – ah Troop. Thank you, Troop Beverly Hills. I was like, Beverly Hills Troopers. That's not it at all. Troop Beverly Hills was one of these where you know it was just playing on cable TV.
Speaker: like It was just playing. So you might catch like a weird part of it, start in the middle and like finish it and be like, I don't know what this movie is because you never saw the first half. And that was true of the first couple times I saw this and then I watched it through, but I was still like 10. Yeah.
Speaker: I was like, oh yeah, Mannequin, this is one of those classics because it's just bonkers. And so yeah this flippin' movie... Stars Andrew McCarthy, Kim Cattrall. We've got Estelle Getty, James Spader. There's a bunch of other actors in there that you recognize if you're familiar with the 80s and early 90s, But this movie starts – this movie has the brass cojones to begin in ancient Egypt.
Speaker: And Kim Cattrall is an ancient Egyptian – princess um i Is she? Maybe not, but a young woman ancient Egypt who is like her mother comes in and her mother has a more traditional Egyptian wig kind of going on. Right. But she's still very, Very why not white. Egyptian at all or adjacent. No. And Kim Cattrall.
Speaker: She looked like she was from New Jersey, the mother. And they spoke like they were from Long Beach. yeah And like Kim Cattrall's hiding with mummies so that she doesn't have to marry...
Speaker: you know whoever her parents are trying to put her off to because she keeps running away from marriages which respect but absolutely then she says I want to do things I want to discover things I want to make things i want to experience things I don't want to do this I don't want to do that and like her mother's like well tough tough cookies basically and then we hear like what the clap of thunder and basically we're let to understand the gods are like okay girl we're gonna Grant your wish. Grant your wish and do something. And she literally disappears. yeah And her mother is left holding like the bandages. A pile of goss. Yeah, the pile of goss that she was wearing, saying her name. And that's the last time she ever sees her daughter.
Speaker: Yep. Can you imagine? Like this horrific loss. Yeah. That's how we begin this movie. And it's supposed to be funny? Hilarious. Uplifting? ah m i don't I don't know, actually, what it's supposed to be. Because it just then it goes into like an animated opening title sequence that almost almost feels like the bangles walk like an Egyptian. kind of like yeah And then we go to the mannequins with Andrew McCarthy.
Speaker: And so... yeah i Yeah. I don't even have words for the sort of like magical mechanics of this movie. It's just that like pre-certain period of time of fantasy movies where they're like hand wave, hand wave, hand wave. ah We have a premise. Let's get to it. yeah And so we get to it really quick. Why I suggested this movie Is because it felt like kind of a great companion to Troop Beverly Hills. Because Troop Beverly Hills is like very bright. There's a lot going on The fashion is fantastic. And like yeah so many pieces, which we talked about last episode. Right. It's very this fun and joyful. Very fun. And like all of those pieces are being worn too.
Speaker: And this one this feels like an homage in a way Excuse me. To eighty s mall culture. Absolutely. Yeah. this This feels like the transition between traditional department stores and mall department stores.
Speaker: Because we are seeing that transition happening yeah with Prince and Son or whatever. The fancy old one that is like losing business. It's like a Neiman Marcus kind of situation. Very like old school, like Victorian building, like ah Gilded Age like yeah look. Very ornate and not a lot of customers. Yeah. And kind of like how Macy's was when we were kids where they had a piano player in the lobby. So they'd have like classical music that you could hear rising through the levels. And then they would be piping in you know, some modern music, but it would be like the predecessor to Muzak where it's like, yeah, just pleasant and kind of not. brown Yeah. And then we have Illustra, which is their direct competitor, which has like their signs are in neon. They've got like silver glittery stuff all over the place. They're crammed full. Everything's loud. It's like forever 21, essentially, but for the eighty s yeah And it's just like everything's polyester. Everything's bright. It's all the fashions, all the things happening at once. And um like full of people because they're all just like, yes, shiny stuff. Hell yeah.
Speaker: And the thing is that like watching this, because the whole the whole thing about Andrew McCarthy's character is that he's a sculptor and that he wants this job.
Speaker: Of doing Windows displays, when which he gets, you know, like because he gets time to work with the mannequins and to make art, visual art. To work. and But yeah, honestly, it is it is a job that I would like to do. Yeah, like that's a whole field that I was actually really excited to find out still.
Speaker: Yeah. exists yeah because when we were kids i don't know about you but i remember very distinctly traveling to union square to see the shop windows at the holidays I don't think I ever did that when I was a kid. That very long drive for you. Yeah. I was 20 minutes over the bridge when I was growing up. But it's like, you know, if you went to the city to go shopping for Christmas gifts or went to go see a show or something around the holidays, fancy dinner, then you would stop by Union Square see the window displays. Yes. And – I remember it being a thing. wasn't something that I personally wanted to do, but it was like a huge moment when I was living in New York when the flagship Macy's. Yep.
Speaker: downtown would reveal the windows for yeah Christmas. It's like still a thing. yeah And it was especially a thing that was still like it wasn't even discussed. It was just like, oh, yeah, the the big stores will have like an unveiling of their windows when we were growing up. So we were closer to this period of time. yeah And we remember that it was a big deal, even though i wouldn't say it was as big a deal as the movie tries to make it seem where people are like losing their minds for no no but it was like you would you would enjoy it you'd walk by and be like oh cool look at what's happening right now ni yeah um but this movie is just like it feels like a transitional moment in time and i kind of enjoy that it's also like there's sexual harassment happening All over the place. Oh, left, right, center. Left, right, center. We've got some homophobia going, but it gets called out. Insane. Yeah. It gets called out by our main character. And I was like, 1987.
Speaker: Hello. Look at that. And yet there's also this like very accepting attitude towards people believing that Andrew McCarthy's character is fully in a romantic relationship with an inanimate object and everyone that works with him is kind of like well you know creative people they're different and it was like okay we've got Meshach Taylor who plays Hollywood Montrose who is this very ouch character who's very flamboyant character has a lot of sunglasses in this movie and the very first pair that we see which we do get to see a couple times has eyelashes there's like an asymmetrical pair that's incredible there's just like if he has any significant scenes where he's not wearing sunglasses I don't I mean he I don't think so think he might like take them off like in a moment but like they're on yeah they are Hollywood's character yeah and like his
Speaker: His fashion in this is the loudest fashion that we get. Correct. And there's a lot of yuppie fashion. Yes. And that's like, for those who don't know what yuppie means. Oh, Young business people. Young urban professionals. Exactly. so Like they are shoulder pads to the gods. Oh, red, white, black, gray are like the heart of the palette. Yeah.
Speaker: and then they never met like they They never met a garment that they couldn't make the cut more unusual in some way. like There's not one normal looking though straight cut. The patterns on the shirts are all giant. like It's huge. It's pretty amazing, but it's like we get we get a spectrum of fashions in this movie, and then we also get in between um spectrum pieces because it's taking place in two malls. So we see the fashions that they're selling and what they have in the windows. So it's like we just get to see a wide variety of things that aren't – we're not relying on extras in the background to be wearing them, and we do have extras in the background wearing
Speaker: more normal street fashions but like we get to see heightened stuff we get to see older sensibilities we get to see yuppie we get to see just like regular struggling artists we get to see um loud artists we get all these varieties and so I just kind of like love that spectrum of what's happening absolutely and it's extremely like it's
Speaker: Even like the people that are like extras on the street that are like a little bit, you know, like more understated or subdued. It's unmistakably 80s. And it's 80s in the way that people think about the 80s. Yeah.
Speaker: Teased hair. Not like hairband teased hair, but teased hair. Yeah. Hairstyles. There was actually a moment that surprised me, which is when, is it Roxy? Which is um Andrew McCarthy's character, Jonathan's like ex-girlfriend and she works for Illustra.
Speaker: And she's like, oh, you're so stupid and like embarrassing. And so she like dumps him. Yeah. And then she gets mad because she's like, and now you're having a weird affair with him. A mannequin. I mean, i do think she is justified in being upset. She was justified in being upset with that too.
Speaker: I don't know that I would have gone so far as dumping, like kidnapping the mannequin. I'm only saying kidnapping because we know it's not a mannequin. And then dumping it into ah a blade chute to chop it up. When that happened, I literally said, she's trying to Toy Story 3 these mannequins.
Speaker: They're like holding hands on their way up the conveyor belt. Like she's trying to annihilate. Like I i think it's extremely justified because like i i i don't I didn't love her character. But like if you're like, yes, I don't like this person anymore. I don't want to go out with them anymore. Great. Break up with them. That's fine. Live your life. Do what you want to do.
Speaker: But the fixation afterwards is where you lose it. And she's also like driven into the fixation a little because yeah like he all of a sudden has been elevated as this like, you know, visual, it like visualizer visual merchandiser? Who's like making these like out of control window displays. yeah And so Lester is like trying to hire him.
Speaker: And then if they can't get him through the right means, they're going to try to blackmail Yeah, they're like really an indentured servitude, essentially. They're taking the tactic of like, if we can't have you, no one can. It's very creepy. This is not business. This is something else.
Speaker: And what's funny is that the sequel movie takes that idea and just like shoots it through the fucking roof. And that one has a different person who's cursed to be a mannequin. It's crazy. you can't I mean, you can't have the person the way this movie ended. But you still have Hollywood. i still in it. And he has the line in the sequel where he says, I can't believe this is happening again.
Speaker: Oh my god. That one's just crazy. I recommend watching it to anybody out there who just wants to watch a dumb like early... I feel like that one has to be like early 90s. But it's crazy. Oh my god. This one is just like... It's basically this like long...
Speaker: It's not a montage. There is a montage that happens, but there's just like long back to back essentially like dates between Andrew McCarthy um yeah and Kim Cattrall's character. i think in in case anyone hasn't seen the movie and is is like me having no understanding of what the sort of magic mechanics of the movie are.
Speaker: Whenever he's alone with Kim Cattrall, she turns into a person and they they laugh and they roll in the hay. And she makes like, you know, references to all the years that she's lived through. she's like, you know, he's like a Greek artist. Yeah, she's a muse, basically, like she shows up.
Speaker: She inspires people and then she like peaces out and like moves forward in time to like the next place. But whenever anyone else comes into eyesight of her, no matter what is going on, she turns back into a mannequin. And and does she literally there's a scene where they're kissing. Yes. this is Yes. Mid kiss. Mid kiss.
Speaker: The thing that I could not and will never let go of around everyone else in the movie that's not Andrew McCarthy that thinks that this is just a mannequin.
Speaker: How many mannequins have you seen that are constantly in different poses? I know. And that's the thing. That makes your suggestion that he's sculpting them better. But he didn't get hired to sculpt them. And so it's like, okay, everybody at Prince and Sons whatever, you should be absolutely questioning the fact that there's this many versions of a face and and limbs doing all these different things. Yeah. But like some of it's like identical mannequin. Some of it goes to the point of like the people around him have to literally be out of their minds to accept that this is happening because like, yes, there's a scene where he takes a a so a stand as like a very normal looking standing mannequin version of her into the women's bathroom. Yeah.
Speaker: And they are making out on the counter in the women's bathroom. And she's like sitting with her legs down. And then someone comes in and she freezes in place. So I'm like, how With her face in a kiss position. how many mannequins do you know that you could carry into a bathroom in a standing position and then walk into the bathroom five minutes later? She's not standing anymore. She's not standing anymore.
Speaker: And I mean, like, this movie, like, is, like, a cartoon. Like, it's... Oh, it's... Yes. It's a cartoon. I get that. It's very silly. But I'm just, like, this is insanity. It's wild. And, like, it it truly, that's...
Speaker: The meat of the movie is people coming in and discovering them in all these different situations. And he's left to try to scramble to explain why he's naked, covered in furs, in a hammock, in the window display. Yes. Why he's riding on his motorcycle with a mannequin in an evening gown. With her arms around his waist. like Just all these different things. And it's it's like, yeah, if this were happening to me, I would have a crazy response. Not happening to me, but if I were a witness to it, I would be like, okay.
Speaker: I'm losing my mind. Yeah. no Everybody's responding. He's weird and he's doing something. And it's like, okay, but ah that's, that's true. but what you're seeing, you can't explain. You don't know how to explain it.
Speaker: And like, ah meanwhile, you know, people are in like, Just, I just, i i I really do like the wardrobe in this. And like, i like It's really fun. It's very fun. And there's like more dowdy versions or older versions of things. And then like younger, like we said, yuppie, like all sorts of stuff. yeah But there's also this dumb security guard who is like our villain, one of our villains. Yeah.
Speaker: And there's a little choice that's so tiny, but it does a lot of heavy lifting, which is he's wearing a security guard outfit that's like head to toe hat, all these things.
Speaker: And he has a little dog named Rambo. like It's not his fault that his human is a jackass. But like the security guard has dark pants, dark shoes.
Speaker: So we've talked about socks before. Yeah. In theater, in order for the lights not to just like highlight bright white socks, you usually try to match socks to pants and shoes. And I think that that's usually a fashion choice, um you know, for like formal occasions, you know, unless you're like wearing like a statement color thing and it's deliberate. Unless you want it to stand out, you want it to blend in But it's like they put him in a white sock, And yeah it's it was definitely very much on purpose because, of course, you know, there were customers on this. um Because he gets hired by Illustra at one point because he gives them information.
Speaker: and he's running towards the end of the movie with all the other security guards to try to catch Andrew McCarthy's character as he's trying to save his girlfriend mannequin from the movie. From the chopper.
Speaker: Shredder. And he's the only security guard who's wearing white socks. yeah All the rest of them have black socks. And what it does is it makes him look a little ridiculous. bit Yeah.
Speaker: Just a little bit ridiculous. The pants are also just short enough that you see the socks when he's just standing there. And it's like everything is just a little off. Yeah.
Speaker: Because it's like he's very much obsessed with the uniform, but maybe he just doesn't want to get them tailored or, you know, whatever. Like, he's not going to spring for that or can't. And so it's just a little bit misaligned. And, like, I really enjoyed that because it works with his character being a dick. Yeah. little bit an idiot. I have used...
Speaker: that tactic sometimes of like when I have been fortunate enough to have like, you know, like the time and process to get into details like that with characters to be like, does this character have the sophistication to put together this sophisticated outfit or like, what is it? And like those kinds of questions that you have to ask yourself that don't might not ever think about otherwise but like you have to get into the mind of your character and like what would this person pick for themselves and would they know to do x y and z or do they care about x y z and it's also like is he buying bulk socks
Speaker: Yeah. Six pack of Hanes. Yeah. Because it's cheaper than buying one pair of black dress socks. And like, are they more comfortable? And he cares about function over form, you know? Yeah. Like, he doesn't care what it projects. Like, he's got the main parts of the...
Speaker: the outfit he doesn't need to worry about these because he doesn't care he doesn't look at his own angles all the time and it says so much about the character and like little things like that i love it when they like stand out just the way that they're meant to how about andrew mccarthy's character wearing bowling shoes for the whole movie i have a line right here which says our main character is so quirky he's wearing bowling shoes. And then I have one that says, well Andrew McCarthy almost broke his neck wearing those bowling shoes doing a slide on like a marble floor. Absolutely, because they are made to slide. No tread whatsoever. And he's supposed to be running after Cattrall.
Speaker: That's so eighty s of them to be like, how can we make this character be not like the other boys that was the thing that even existed when we were in high school like oh if you have bowling shoes that means that you probably like liberated those bowling shoes like wow oh a little bit punk like oh my goodness and also you're just like i don't even care like yeah i just i don't even care about my shoes that's not what i'm thinking about clown shoes are like my thing they don't even match and that's like kind of the point
Speaker: i Oh, my God. Just, he really isn't like other boys. No, he's really the manic pixie dream boy, isn't he? That's exactly what he is in this movie. It's just like this insane manic little man just running all over the place.
Speaker: I love that... um There's like something that I feel like we've lost a little bit in society, which is sad. And that is making every job have a stupid little uniform. yeah And there's like the montage at the beginning of him getting fired from every job. And every job he's got a stupid little uniform. And it's such a like fun opportunity to be like – Well, he's not just working as a gardener. He has to be dressed like he's going on safari. And, like, he can't just be working at a children's, like, birthday party. He has to be dressed like an ice cream man from the 50s. Like, it's silly. Yeah, everything has to, like, identify this business as, like, standing out somehow. Mm-hmm. It just goes through so many. So many. got every job. but
Speaker: um
Speaker: I don't remember what I was going to say. Oh, I liked his little stock boy smock lab coat thing that he was wearing. And it had like a little blue ribbon. On the front. And then I saw somebody else later in the movie that was also an employee that had like the little blue ribbon. And I'm wondering if it was like some kind of indication that you're like new at the job, maybe because the other person was in like a completely different department doing like a completely different thing. But he had the same blue ribbon like pinned onto him.
Speaker: And I have no idea what it was. i like the idea that it's like, I'm a new employee. Yeah. New here. Right? nice I like that. I didn't notice that. So good catch.
Speaker: I was actually trying to look at all the things that were on the racks Like, I did not catch all of it, obviously, because it's a massive, two massive department stores. yeah But there was one thing that caught my eyes, ah because i clocked it on Roxy's character.
Speaker: And the guy who's always hitting on her who works for Lester as well. Yeah. I think Antonio, or something like that. um Something Italian. But yeah but they this is a prime time for blazers with the sleeves rolled up to your elbows.
Speaker: Absolutely. And there's one of them, actually this one doesn't have the sleeves rolled up, so it's a totally separate thing, but I'm going to say it and then go back to this the rolled up sleeves. There's one blazer that Roxy's wearing that reminded me of some stuff that my mom owned from the 80s, which is like a silk stripe.
Speaker: ah And hers is a jacket and it was like an oversized jacket, of course, with, you know, shoulder pads for days. But I love that jacket. Put a bit in that, make a comment and then we'll come back to jackets. Great.
Speaker: There were pre-rolled. Blazers being sold with the sleeves pre-rolled. And I was like, that's fantastic. Wow. i was not aware of pre-done things like that being a trend that existed in department stores until we started getting pre-rolled cuffs and pre-torn jeans. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: which was a really annoying thing that still persists. um So seeing something like that be sold that way, i was like, hey, look at that. But the thing that I was i'm going to – Yeah, it was just like in the back of a shot when Roxy and what's his name are trying to catch – Andrew McCarthy and um Kim Cattrall in the, in the act, if you will. um Which just they do. yeah they do. Oh boy. But it's like just in the background of a shot where you see like the displays and there's just like a bunch of these like neon and pastel blazers with their, their sleeves rolled up. But um why aren't jackets fun anymore? God, they're so boring. And i I feel like we hit a moment around, I want to say like around 2010, at least with women's stuff where everyone had the same army green utility jacket with a drawstring waist. Mine was navy blue.
Speaker: and I love that thing. And I will never let it go. it doesn't fit anymore, but it's still in a drawer. I love that thing. Drawstring waist, big pockets. A hood. But then after that, it was like we couldn't have fun jackets anymore.
Speaker: That was the last like thing. And that was only fun because of like the pockets, the drawstring. But like the color was army green. And so we've reduced from that even to navy, black, tan.
Speaker: like we we just... It's like we've we've full circled back to beige. Everything is just beige. Everything's beige. and like everything is just like long and plain. like you can't have a patch pocket on a jacket anymore.
Speaker: It has to. Everything is just sleek. And i mean, I personally blame like the Kardashians and Hailey Bieber for the situation that we are in.
Speaker: situation. Yeah. But like the amount of stupid, useless, like crazy colored, cropped jackets that I owned in the 2000s is insane. I used to primarily shop at Ross and Marshalls. And like I did shop a little bit at Forever 21 because they had some like cool shit happening. Oh my, I had so much stuff in Forever 21. yeah.
Speaker: The first time I ever saw a Forever 21, I remember I was still in high school. And it was in like the suburbs of Sacramento. we were like at a giant mall. And i was like, what is this mecca of everything that I like? It was probably like 2002 or And everything was so cheap. And I had never seen a store like And it was before I really...
Speaker: It had a concept of fast fashion and how awful it is. Yeah. I had no idea. Yeah. So this was like 2007, 2008. Yeah. And it was in the city to San Francisco ah odd market is where it was. and I still have two long coats. Yeah.
Speaker: that were awesome that I got there. and But they had these like shirts that nobody else had that I thought were so cool. No, it wasn't them. It was fucking H&M that had these shirts that were like Edwardian-ish. Yeah. yeah And that was like, oh, hell yeah. So I had a few of those. But Forever 21 – was just like a revelation because it was so loud.
Speaker: It had everything you could conceive of. Yes. And I bought so many colorful pants there because went And if you didn't buy it right then, you would never see it again. was gone forever.
Speaker: So I had like mustard jeans, burgundy jeans, turquoise jeans. Like I just had all these colorful things and it was like, well, this is fantastic. and Yeah.
Speaker: Like what a what a time. Yeah. I know. And I still have a couple pieces that are like 20 years old from Forever 21 that i haven't let go of just because I really, you know, the like I have this one blouse that does not fit, but it's this really intense like floral blouse.
Speaker: like I don't know if it's a chiffon or a Georgette, but it's like kind of sheer. um But I'll never let it go because i just like the fabric and the colors of the floral like just delight me. yeah I have kept it. But yeah, it is tough because now I you know Now we know about fast fashion. And I yeah really, really resisted. like I don't have anything from Shein. Yeah. I've never bought anything from Shein, Timu. None of it. No. And I won't when I'm working because I also haven't been forced into a position. But it's like you've been kind of put in that corner recently. A lot of other people we know have been put in that corner recently recently. And it's been like a massive conversation.
Speaker: um i know it was with like educational theater, especially after and during COVID um of like, okay, well, we were put into quarantine and we were doing digital theater. Yeah.
Speaker: So we were shipping things directly to people's houses. We were shipping them to costumers to then go drive to people's houses or meet them. Like I literally was doing a show and I had to meet someone who lived out in Jenner, which for anybody who doesn't know is off the one by the ocean. and ah we are not off the one by the ocean. We are inland. And I had to go drive out there and meet them because they were even further o remote.
Speaker: Wow. So they were like, it's not worth it for you to drive all the way up to our place. It's like, you know, off the road, it's off a county road. So yeah, like we had to do, we were put in a position to do crazy, crazy stuff.
Speaker: to costume things then. And that created an expectation from departments. It created an expectation from artistic directors and theater companies that you can just manifest a bunch of shit overnight.
Speaker: And it's like, okay, so now we've been pushed into an ethical dilemma yeah and a financial dilemma because now you are just expecting us to be so so wasteful instead of pulling from stock uh trying to find alternatives trying to lean on our relationships and rent or swap you know do all these different things in order to costume and it's like a real bummer and and it creates this feeling that like you know
Speaker: That we should get this thing that is kind of disposable because we want it for this one moment and we don't have to think about ever using it again. Or, you know, it doesn't we don't need to really spend that much money on it because it's insanely cheap.
Speaker: It'll fall apart after the run of the show and then we can get rid of it. we don't have to worry about storing it. It's interesting to me working on shows now when I am like thrifting stuff like for shows, whether I'm doing it because I think it's the best place to get like stuff for that character or I don't have any more money than that. Like whatever the reason, um being in thrift stores All that stuff from Shein and Timu is in the thrift store and I don't want it from them either.
Speaker: and they're selling it for sometimes more than it probably costs in the first place. And i i'm not buying that. Oh, hell no.
Speaker: No. And it's like, of course, we know that human hands made those things. ho But it's like what we're we're that part of the ethical dilemma is that we don't want to support abusing workers the way that they have to be abused in order to make things that way. Yeah. And so being forced into purchasing things that way, or just being ignorant, like some folks are, and just doing it anyway, because it's convenient. Yeah.
Speaker: sucks. Like once you know better and you can do better, it really is awful that some places are putting people's hands in a vice and just putting them in this position because it's like, like I said earlier in a private conversation, it feels like we're being forced into a, an equivalent of like an AI can do your job conversation. Right.
Speaker: Where it's like, no, there's more that goes into this. Like there's just, more And you're expecting it to to be this way because you think it's convenient.
Speaker: And yeah it looks easier to you. Meanwhile... bo and And that's why like even like watching this movie is so interesting because the feeling in the movie is like, oh, we got to save the big department store, the historic like family owned department store from closing because of low sales by like doing this flashy stuff and like bringing more customers in and creating more excitement. And like, you know, it's 39 years the
Speaker: years after This movie came out and like those stores are gone. Yeah. They don't, they didn't, they, they got crushed by the illustrators of the world. Those stores don't exist anymore. um Like brick and mortar retail shopping is not doing great at all because everyone's just ordering everything online. Males are dead.
Speaker: Like yeah department stores that were like this are dead. And in the ones that are ah like they still exist. Yeah. Yeah. They are in the condition that Prince and Sons or Prince and Co or whatever whatever whatever was in at the beginning of the movie where it's like tumbleweeds. Yes. Well, and it's so fascinating to me because like when I was living in New York and doing shows there, there's this idea that people have in their mind that like – We're in New York City. We could get anything. It's all it's at our fingertips. Like it's here. But the reality was that those stores, there's many. They didn't have a full range of the stuff in them because real estate, because like whatever. So if you wanted to get like a if you were shopping in person and you wanted to get like an actual
Speaker: full range of like what even these like big chain stores had to offer. You had to go to the suburbs because the stores in the city like would only stock like a few sizes or like a couple colors. They wouldn't have everything. um They just wouldn't carry certain things at all because they didn't have space for them. And there's this like idea that people have in their mind like, oh, you can just get anything. We're in like a huge like international city. And you're like, that's not actually true.
Speaker: Because the retail shopping is like not really here. And those big department stores were like where you could get everything like outside of the city and those are going away.
Speaker: And its it becomes really, really hard to shop a show in person anymore. yeah And it was hard even you know a few years back because it was the transition from thrift stores being thrift store prices that we were familiar with. Because like in high school, that's where I used to shop. like Yes, I used to.
Speaker: my mom would buy things from for me from Ross and Marshalls when I was like elementary school and stuff. But she would still buy stuff from thrift stores, which is why I knew that I could buy things from thrift stores. But I used to go to the Haight in the city and go to thrift stores there. And for like nothing, i would get all sorts of stuff like from that was all vintage and it was all in perfect condition. And I would wear the weirdest clothes... Like just, I think somebody that I went to high school with described the way that I dressed as like a weird eccentric grandma. And I was like, you're not wrong. Weird 70s polyester.
Speaker: It'll do it. yeah um But like there was a period there that was like the department stores transitioning into, you know, from the like Neiman Marcus Macy's into the Forever where, you know,
Speaker: where thrift stores were doing what antique stores did, yeah which is now it's super expensive. And it's not where you go in and you can get something that has been in somebody's closet for 35 years for Because you know what it is Nobody else does.
Speaker: Like I remember in high school I got my my junior prom dress from a thrift store on the Haight and it was a taffeta dress from the 50s and we got it for like less than $50 I think.
Speaker: And it was like perfect condition. Wow. You know? Yeah. Different time. Yeah. So could you imagine dressing a show like that? Well, it is fascinating now going into a vintage store because they've got stuff that's from like the and the 2000s. I hate it. You mean the late From the late and the early 21st century. From 20th century.
Speaker: Yeah. But the quality of those textiles is not the same as the stuff that was like at the vintage store yeah when we were in high school. Because we had stuff that was from use the 1890s, the twenty s the 30s. Like we had all of those things that were some were pre-industrial and some were.
Speaker: the revolution of like things being done by machine and things still had handmade elements and like had survived even some of the 60s stuff that I have because I ah don't fit into any of it anymore but I kept like anything vintage that I bought I tried to keep because literally you'll never find it again But I would buy vintage 60s dresses that were homemade yeah by somebody's you know mom or grandma or something. But like they looked the same as something that was manufactured because it was like good home sewing.
Speaker: But just the quality of the fiber and the textiles of the stuff that's in vintage stores now is just not the same. The world's different. yeah And so it's it's that's where the nostalgia hits from this movie is that different era of clothing, accessibility. And like the parts of it that we still remember from like young childhood not being too long after this movie was made. But yeah, this movie really made me question whether...
Speaker: Like, I felt like they waited until the end to really answer the question of whether Andrew McCarthy was psychotic or whether Kim Cattrall. I mean, of course, I knew she's really coming to life, blah, blah, blah. But they waited until like the last minute.
Speaker: They waited. They waited. then everybody's like, where'd you come from? And she's like, I've been here the whole time. And they're just like, OK. Like, there's not... There's a line that she has. There's two lines that I wrote down at the end.
Speaker: um The security guard, of course, is at this grand you know finale where he's pointing and he's trying to explain to everybody, she's the mannequin. everybody's like, know you're crazy. Because what you're saying is crazy. And he's like, no, she was the mannequin that came in here. What the fuck? And he's...
Speaker: Kim Cattrall points at him and in the most just dramatic way says, this poor man is having a breakdown. And that made me laugh like hell. then The head of Illustra, who's you know been trying to like blackmail Andrew McCarthy into working for him. And he's like you know trying to take him away from Estelle Getty, who is the one who hired Andrew McCarthy and runs Prince and Sons or whatever.
Speaker: He's just like trying to make dumb excuses for all the weird shit that he's done in her department store to her employee. And she literally says, cram it, clown. And I was like, listen.
Speaker: I loved her. i love her like ever. character Fucking Estelle Getty. Like, yeah yeah, you can't go wrong. Like, cram it, clown. And I was like, okay, I am going to use that.
Speaker: yeah And I might use this poor man's having a breakdown. like but like Kramit Clown is just like, okay, my brain doesn't work that fast because it just jumps to expletives too quickly. So it's like things like that. It's phenomenal.
Speaker: It's so good. Got a channel. It's that old. And I loved her little, her little like old lady, like glasses that she holds up because they don't have arms. Yeah. yes She just has, they're on like a chain and she just like, it's like having a monocle, but it's like both eyes. She just like, love it. mother and And at the end, like just so many fun character details. so many great character deals. So many brooches. so many pins. So many earrings. Yeah. And like, okay, I took some notes on the montage of um Kim Cattrall and Andrew McCarthy where they're just going around at night and she's just doing a music video. Yeah. And they're just changing outfits. We start with a hot pink and black gangster's girlfriend from the twenty s Like mafia gangster.
Speaker: And like had everything. So good. a knit two-piece outfit where the pattern is star and moons that could totally be early 90s. Like Practical Magic-esque. Andrew McCarthy. oh That's where I say Andrew McCarthy almost breaks his neck with those bowling shoes. Yeah. Yes, he does. She has this – I stopped looking at him because I was just like, she's got all the fun stuff going. Yes.
Speaker: She had a purple evening gown and then she went to a black bodycon with like cutouts at the ribs and this like Tina Turner, you know. Yeah, the rock and roll girl. Yeah. yeah amazing. Yeah. And then um ah pastels and an off-white suit. That was him. yeah.
Speaker: Just something that you wouldn't see now, I think. There's a lot of really good pastel work in this movie. know. was like, ooh, this is great. There's beachwear with fully decked out jewelry, just like stacked bracelets, a scarf in her hair, like everything, every detail. Was that the color-blocked one that was black and blue or was that a different one?
Speaker: That was – think it was a different one. A different one. okay Yeah. This one, she had like a wrap around her waist. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I want to say kind of like a pumpkin-y or like an autumnal like orange kind of situation. Yes. And then right after that is one that i actually genuinely love is this weird ass – maa Is that how you say it? Moray?
Speaker: Moray? Yeah. Mustard jacket. And this is where they get caught by Hollywood and she freezes in this like... weird position. But this jacket is where I was like, what the hell happened to fun jackets? it Because it has a lapel down the front, but it's like very blousey because that moiré fabric is very lightweight and flowy. yeah it might even be a silk moiré.
Speaker: And then the back almost looks as if you had made a jacket from a shirt that you put on backwards. Yes, it go it has this like cut up. That goes up in her back. Up towards like the back of her neck. was very confusing. It's high-low situation. Yeah. and But the front has a lapel, so it's not.
Speaker: some weird like backwards situation. It's very much – I mean that would be intentionally done but like it's it's meant to be this like flowing thing and like the sleeves are big and wide. And I was like I want that. Yeah. It reminded me of there's like a there's like a a a group or, you know cohort or something of Japanese, like postmodern fashion designers that do these like weird deconstructed stuff. And that's what it looked like. It was such a cool look. yeah And like underneath it, well, also the hat that she has on is this like teardrop shape.
Speaker: It's like an asymmetrical teardrop kind of because it's like closer into her head I think on one side. And then i was like that's fantastic because it's like a sun hat. But it's this like very, very specific shape that we do not use or see.
Speaker: And then underneath she has a white t-shirt with pastel stars on it. Yeah. And I was like, what a pairing. This is nuts. so And then in the end of this scene after she like snaps back after Hollywood like goes away, ah they go back to the window to finish the setup. And she's wearing this workout gear. It's like biking gear that's pastel floral with a belt.
Speaker: Yeah, God. and then she's on the bike and that's a weird setup, but kind of cool if you saw it in a window, which is all the... I think that one was my favorite because it was like the Tour de France. Yeah. They're all in motion. but Yeah. Like their legs are actually pedaling the bikes. Yeah. And so they're on, you know, like treadmills to make it happen. There's like a long treadmill or something. But I was like a pastel floral exercise outfit. That alone right there shows you how much we have stripped down from pattern and texture. We have lost. We have And just like we've –
Speaker: strayed from doing fun stuff, which is why I was talking to you about the show. You're all hawking it here. ah the show extraordinary because the wardrobe team on that, sorry to deviate from you mannequin for a second, but the wardrobe team on that has, has done this kind of thing where they've pulled clothing that has insane textures and patterns that if you were,
Speaker: Thinking conventionally about what matches or what makes sense together, which sometimes I get stuck doing. yeah me to get yeah you know like you just Unless you're able to approach something sideways, you kind of have a way of looking at things, right? Yeah. Sometimes that is really successful with different eras. But like in that show, they're taking all of these patterns that you would not necessarily put together and they're just mixing them all up. And then what you get is this like really lively, exciting thing to look at that really suits the character. yeah and you would love to see it on the street. And that made me feel a little bit like this movie does where there's things happening here where you're like, I would not ever combine these things. Yeah.
Speaker: I love it. Should we mention the costume designer for this movie? i think that would be really wise. Yeah. Her name is Lisa Jensen.
Speaker: and she did a lot of really goofy comedies. It seems like I have not seen a ton of her filmography. This tracks. Yeah.
Speaker: So she did. i think this was her first feature length movie. if I remember correctly. Well, that offers up some pretty fun things to do. i know. And then she did a lot of like really off the wall, goofy stuff from like through like the eighties and nineties. Um,
Speaker: I don't think she had any super recent credits. So I don't know. yeah her credits end in 2016. Yes. Okay.
Speaker: But she did the Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants. She did She is responsible for those pants. Can you believe? i think they were Levi's.
Speaker: The Impossible Magic Pants. The Impossible Magic Pants. ah Yeah, but I mean, can like, what a fun movie to kind of, like, cut your teeth on in the film industry, like, as a feature-length film specifically. 100%. Like, just being given the opportunity to dress this mannequin character, and knowing that you have these, like,
Speaker: montage opportunities to just be like running through a department store trying out all these different things because they're like on fun little dates like yeah oh you have yeah the opportunity to show this like wide spectrum of 80s fashion which they did they didn't they never stuck with the character looking one way she's always doing a million things I read in her little bio that she started by working at the public theater in New York and doing like off-Broadway design and then moved to LA, which I think is why her sort of span of theater filmography is like not as long because she had a career doing theater costumes before going to LA so I think I don't know exactly how old she was when she moved but she was like well established in a career already that's cool um so
Speaker: Yeah, because she comes in with this great work. Like the the costuming is amazing. There's like a couple little things I want to shout out. There's a scene where Roxy's on a dinner date where she's offering Jonathan Andrew McCarthy's character a job at Illustra after they've broken up. And her hair is down and not teased.
Speaker: It's not, there's not a lot of insane stuff happening. There's like a little bit of loose curl in the front. And I was a little bit surprised because I was like, this is more natural than I was expecting for 87 and for this, because there's a lot of blowouts, you know, a lot of stuff happening at the root. And this one is very natural look. And she also has some intense updos in this movie. Yeah. So swoopy. So swoopy, like Anne of Green Gables swoopy. Yes. There's um like an Edwardian – 80s does as wart Edwardian blouse that Kim Cattrall wears that I thought was pretty fantastic. um
Speaker: There's like a peach silk aviatrix-esque like outfit that she wears. There's just a come a combination of – things put together in patterns and colors that are really stunning and like all of Hollywood's outfits are amazing and I think that they're supposed to be kind of like the butt of a joke for the time yeah because he's supposed to be like avant-garde but it's like now looking back I'm like That's just fun as hell. Yeah, he's great. And like the decade of the 80s is so much about like layers of clothes and just like stacking things on top of each other. And really did And things you might thought clashed. Yeah. But like you elevate that language and it's –
Speaker: Like his his color palette Hollywood is like the sort of like graphic and like logo and advertising color palette of like Nickelodeon the 90s. With neon. All of these bright and we're like putting like a bright purple with a red with a yellow we're like putting it all together. It's great. So great. And the movie ends, as of course a romance does, with a wedding scene wedding in a window at a department store. Yeah.
Speaker: I was looking at the wedding dress. Me too. And I was remembering all the formal dresses from when we were kids. Yeah. Yeah. And how you just know that wedding dress was scratchy as fuck.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. was just, it crinkled. You could hear it coming. sounded stiff. like just That all satin. And i I did really love her weird little kind of cap veil. The skull cap veil that was very like Yeah.
Speaker: It was great. loved that. It was so weird. It was all beaded. Everything had so much going on Pearls love everywhere. I didn't even bother looking Andrew No, what's the point?
Speaker: And like, then of course, we, we are in the middle of one of the best 80s songs ever created. Nothing's gonna stop us now. no yeah. Starship. That's right.
Speaker: Amazing. And like the music video for that. Have you ever seen it? No, but I i saw a little little tidbit about it online that Hollywood is in it. Yeah. And so i highly recommend if you're having a bad day out there or if you're having a neutral day or a good day, please watch the music video for Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now by Jefferson's Dark Ship because it is silly, goofy, ridiculous. I guess I'm going to have to. I think so. And I would love to hear your feedback. Great.
Speaker: But that was, i mean, do you have anything else that that calls to you from this movie? um
Speaker: Yeah. My last note is that the only logical way for that movie to end was with a window display wedding in public view. It's the only way that that movie could end. And I'm so glad that it did. I was kind of wondering if it was going to end with her,
Speaker: like traveling on to be the next muse in the future or if she was going to stick around. I wasn't actually sure which way they were going to go with it for part of the movie. So yeah, I feel like once the guy at the chopping machine who took a really long time, by the way, to turn that machine off. He really did. And he was a total perv. absolute garbage man but like once he laid eyes on her and she stayed it was like oh then the curse is broken yes yes the mechanic is absolutely been fulfilled yes but up until then I was like I still felt like it was possible that she was gonna be like we had a really special moment and now I'm gonna um but uh love conquers all know especially love where you've known each other for like, I don't know how long this movie takes, a week?
Speaker: Got a new job and a wife. Really running through life here. it is kind of impressive that a department store would change their window displays so drastically every single day. oh and insane.
Speaker: It made me understand one of the Christmas episodes of Bob's Burgers that I did not previously understand. Because they do a parody of Mannequin for sure. That's amazing.
Speaker: ah So ah for any any Bob's Burgers fans out there, the Christmas episode with the manic the guy who... Claims to be a mannequin that came to life.
Speaker: ah Now you get it. I get it. That's so good. Well, that was mannequin. That was mannequin. and So next week we're doing the sequel, right?
Speaker: If you're down, I'm down. I i don't, actually. i Because that would be a psychological experiment, I think, on you. So someday, i think you should speed run through Mannequin 2 because that takes this to a an even more insane place.
Speaker: I've listened to the How Did This Get Made episode about that movie and I feel like i feel like watching the movie wouldn't enhance my understanding. That episode is one of the best episodes of a podcast ever recorded so I'm so glad that you have that knowledge. You're fine.
Speaker: I think I would only recommend watching like the first like four minutes before she's transformed. Oh, Because it's like the in the past. So like the ancient version. Isn't her name like Jessica? It is. It's Jessie. Jessie. She's like a medieval princess named Jessie. It's so stupid. It's so weird. Oh, yeah. So, of course, we're not going to watch that. course i was like, are you for real? Like, I'll do it if you want. but Oh, no. what What actual movie are we watching next? That's the real question. Intro us in.
Speaker: ok All right. After consulting the almighty spreadsheet, the next movie that we will be watching, we're going to jump, i think, almost exactly 10 years forward from this. And we're going to watch one of the greatest movies ever put on film, i think. um We are going to watch the classic, the iconic movie.
Speaker: The fashion forward. and Michelle's high school reunion. um This movie is. Very special to me. i will reiterate my. Caveat from True Beverly Hills. That I will never be objective. About this movie.
Speaker: I think I've only seen it. Once all the way through. And that was probably in like 1999. wow Wow. Wow. Yeah. So this will be. An experience for me. I love that we just keep trading it back and forth. Yeah. like It's the best way. It's the best way. um This is one of those movies that made me fall in love with clothes and what clothes can be and um what your life could be if you embrace that.
Speaker: So I'm looking forward to watching it with you and getting your thoughts on it because I already have mine. I'm looking forward to it because it's it's hard to watch a movie that is, i don't want to say parodying, but is it like elevating the moment that it's in yeah pointing at and like – this is what this moment is.
Speaker: and like, it's hard to watch that two years later. Yeah. You're like, what is happening? Yeah. Oh my God. Especially when you're me and you're like too literal for your own good. um But like to go to, to look back and watch that now, I think I'm going to enjoy it very differently. And so I'm looking forward to it, especially whose is it?
Speaker: What's the actress's name? It's some Lisa Kudrow and Mira Sorvino. Mira Sorvino, because I kept yeah doing Mina Suvari. Oh, yeah. Same initials, but Mira Sorvino's accent in this oh yeah is the first thing that I remember is how she talks. So I am probably going to be thinking in her voice for like hours after watching it. Yeah. Yeah. I think it'll be really interesting actually watching it now in the sense that in the film, they are going to their 10-year high school reunion. And we have personally surpassed that time.
Speaker: and you know what? We're going to talk about it I don't know about you, but I had some some moments at my tenure reunion where I was like, this one I'll be talking about forever.
Speaker: oh I didn't didn't go to mine. What a strange moment. I've never been to a high school reunion. I'm never going to another. yeah That one was enough. And I literally... okay here's like a little preview.
Speaker: My husband came with me. of course. And um we... I had been married for like a year at that point. And I was like, not in an insulting way to him, but I was like, oh, yes. And here's my my beautiful trophy husband back here.
Speaker: Yeah. Because he was like, I want to see all these people that you hate. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I'm coming and I'm going to have a glass of wine. I'm going put my feet up and I want you to point and shoot just tell me stories. And that's what we did. That's great. That in that sense, it was fun. And in the booth next to us was another couple that was doing the same thing. Awesome. Awesome. Okay.
Speaker: Romy and Michelle's high school reunion. yeah um du Looking forward to it. ah me too. Hey, yo. We're older than those characters. By 10 years. A lot, Our 20th was last year. Yeah, it was. Jesus Christ. Yeah.
Speaker: Okay. It's fine. We're doing great. I'm going to reckon with that for a little while before I watch the movie. Yeah. It's good to sit with that. Yeah. Well, thanks for listening, everybody. Yeah. Thanks, guys. Bye. Bye.
