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Episode 67: New Miz Is A Brave Boy
62 Plays7 years ago
This week the boys talk pro wrestling after they spend the first 10 minutes not talking pro wrestling!
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Transcript
Introduction and Roleplaying Revelations
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Predetermined, a pro wrestling hangout. I'm your host, Garrett Callender, and with me, as always, a man who abandoned me for a full summer to be Venom on the internet, Derek Halpin. I abandoned you? It felt that way. Like, when we were in college?
00:00:23
Speaker
No, this would have been junior high-ish. I hope you remember this. This is something I've wanted to bring up to you for years and have never had the courage to do. And right now I decided it's time to get, hey, this is a pro wrestling podcast, by the way, but let us sort out some childhood stuff first. Hold on. Here's the amazing thing. You've already started telling the story incorrectly.
00:00:46
Speaker
I disagree, but go ahead. What's your version? Tell the people what we're talking about. I used to roleplay on Myspace as Venom. How could I have done that in junior high? It was Myspace. So it was later than I thought. Correct. It was when we were in college. That's even sadder to me.
00:01:12
Speaker
what the fuck there was i just remember there were days where you were like i gotta get out of here and then you left and we find out you're a venom on the internet yeah i had i had groups that i used to uh get on uh myspace blogs and we would write together and this was before the mcu so the marvel universe was our oyster
00:01:33
Speaker
And now you're passing judgment on me, but you can't even remember the fucking details of this moment that was supposedly so traumatizing to you. You're full of shit. I remember I was sad and you were venom on the internet. Hit our goddamn music.
Friendship and Online Priorities
00:02:21
Speaker
You've been sitting on that one for a while? Oh, I've been thinking about that for years. I've been thinking about it for years. You were just jealous. I was jealous of your internet. You were jealous that something else was showing me a good time and that I had other priorities. I guess it does bother me a little bit that you being Venom on MySpace was better than whatever I had to offer you at that time. At that time, that may very well have been the case.
00:02:49
Speaker
I mean it can still hurt my feelings though. You were 205 Live at that point. What does that mean? It means like you're there and I guess you're fun but I don't know if I'm gonna tune in if I've got a show over here that I wanna watch.
00:03:04
Speaker
And at that time, that was me. I've made lifelong friends because of my Myspace role-playing experience. And that might seem lame as fuck, but if you're a pro wrestling fan and you've been listening to this podcast for a while, a little bit lame as fuck. What, the podcast? No, me. Oh, no, you're not lame. So would you say I was your buddy Murphy? What was I? Yes, you're my buddy.
00:03:34
Speaker
Oh, am I somebody worse? Who on the 205 Live roster am I? I don't know who's on the 205 Live roster anymore. No one does. Because all the people that people kind of knew got called up, right? I think. Are we on a hard rebuild on 205 Live? Is that where we're at? It's time to... Are we really... It feels like we're at a point where really what you want is an apology out of me, like 13 years later. Yeah. I'm sorry.
00:04:03
Speaker
Did you mean that? I do. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I was having a great time. I had made a bunch of friends online and we had a community together that I wanted to go participate in. And it didn't mean to hurt my best friend's feelings to go hang out with my other friends. But that's what I was doing at the time. So I'm sorry that I I'm I'm sorry that I made you feel bad. You're getting to hear real emotion and real repair work being
Backyard Wrestling Memories
00:04:28
Speaker
done on a friendship today. This is how you win awards, Derek.
00:04:38
Speaker
But, uh, fuck. Where do you want to start this week's episode other than us rehashing old sad stories from our, uh, from our youth? I don't know. What's the time I wronged you? Maybe we need to, maybe we need to go, maybe wrestling needs to take a back seat today. Maybe me and you need to work on a relationship. Well, for maybe this has not been brought up on the podcast before. I know it's certainly been brought up on our social media, but
00:05:00
Speaker
There was a time period when we were doing all sorts of, what would you call it, backyard wrestling around your house and around your yard? I would call it backyard wrestling. Yeah, I mean, that feels generous. It was basically just us doing spots and not doing them well. And people were like, I thought that's backyard wrestling. Yeah, but we were mainly just testing if we could do certain things. And on one occasion,
00:05:30
Speaker
there was a spot where I was supposed to be under your garage door and you were going to slam the garage door on top of me and it wasn't going to hurt because our mutual friend Adam was supposed to catch the door on the other side. Were we filming this by the way? Uh, no, I think this was just for us. So what was the point of him catching it? If no, if this wasn't even for camera,
00:05:57
Speaker
Well I've been doing it in the first place. We didn't want you to get hurt. Well the point of the story is I got hurt a little bit because Adam didn't catch the garage door and you slammed it down across my gut and kind of knocked the wind out of me. And I feel like it could have been worse. I don't know.
00:06:18
Speaker
Do you remember this, Garrett? Oh, I remember immediately thinking I just gave him internal bleeding. He is going to die. This is my fault. But I am never going to take the blame. I'm going to put it all on Adam because he was our stunt coordinator. So you're telling me after all the heartfelt shit I just said to you, you're not even going to apologize for this years later. I can't apologize for something that's not my fault. Oh, fuck right off. Derek, accidents happen in wrestling.
00:06:46
Speaker
And this couldn't have been stopped. I mean, it could have, but we hired a shitty crew member. Do you remember when you refused to do a job to me in a Steel Cage match?
00:06:56
Speaker
I believe that too. I came from the world of WCW, Derek, where if you don't think you should lose, you just stand your ground and you don't have to. I'm pretty sure you made up the rules. I'm pretty sure that when you saw me escaping the cage, you told, once again, our mutual friend Adam to poke a broom or a bat through the cage to hit you in the face.
00:07:19
Speaker
And that gave you the win through disqualification in a fucking cage match? Garrett, can you explain this horse shit years later? It's like 20 years later? From what I can tell from what you're saying, because I think I'm a pretty good listener. Fuck you. I think that it sounds- Have I spit out my water? I think it sounds like you're jealous that you didn't have a manager. I was-
00:07:45
Speaker
Maybe. How many times have we watched shows where Vince McMahon changes the rules on the fly, Derek? So, speaking of changing rules on the fly, let me tell you a story, please, about the kind of host that Garrett fucking calendar is. We have a sleepover in your backyard, in your fort, and the next day your mom grills for us. Do you remember this story?
00:08:16
Speaker
Did I feed you garbage? There was hot dogs and hamburgers and we were hanging out. We were playing. We were being kids and I want to say this was maybe 97 and you found a piece of hot dog that had kind of like fallen off to the side and your cat Sonic had nibbled on it slightly.
00:08:41
Speaker
I think it's important to include that he frequently has worms or had at that time. Okay, fair enough. I don't want to make me look better here. Yeah, you know, make it worse, please, by all means. You dared me. You didn't think I would do it. You said, I dare you to nibble on that hot dog. And I said no. And you're like, if you nibble on, if you take a bite of that hot dog,
00:09:05
Speaker
that's been laying there, I will give you my Boba Fett action figure. And I thought, that's fucking ridiculous.
Listener Engagement and Wrestling Topics
00:09:11
Speaker
And you're like, I'll give you my Boba Fett action figure if you do it. And I said, fuck it. It's Neville or whatever. I'll do it. And this isn't my shtick either. I wasn't that kid that did gross shit for other people's enjoyment. I just really wanted, you know, a Star Wars action figure in my collection. No, that was my friend Brandon. He would eat gross stuff for free for everyone else. Everybody had that friend that would either jump off of something or eat something if you told them to.
00:09:35
Speaker
Correct. And that was Brandon's role. But in this circumstance, I decided, you know, fuck it, I'll take the dare. So I take a bite of the hot dog. And as soon as I do, you start laughing like a fucking asshole and you say, I lied. I'm not giving you my Boba Fett action figure. You thought that was the funniest fucking thing ever. Well, the first 10 minutes of the show really are us hashing out stuff. And you know, for this one,
00:10:02
Speaker
I can't do anything but say I'm sorry, and I think that I owe you that Boba Fett. Yeah, where is it? I'm still waiting on it. You know, next time I go home, I'm going to find that, and that is yours, my friend. You earned it. You'll get it right in time for the Mandalorian premiere on Disney+. You can sit there with your Boba Fett in one hand.
00:10:23
Speaker
a nice cold beer in the other, and just enjoy a full season of The Mandalorian. And people will say, picks or it didn't happen. And you bet your ass I will post picks. Hey, if you haven't already, hop on over to iTunes, give us five stars, leave us a nice review. As always, you'll leave a nice review. You get to tell us something that we need to watch that is even marginally related to pro wrestling. And we'll watch it. We'll check it out. And then we'll talk about it on the podcast. That's our obligation to you.
00:10:51
Speaker
We hope you've been entertained by this friendship therapy session between me and Garrett. Somebody says, I haven't. I haven't. Three stars. And you know what? Three stars? I'll take it. It's fine. It's better than zero stars. Someone's like, you settled for you. You ate a worm and cat worm infected hot dog for a Boba Fett action figure and not the ghost of Obi-Wan. You kidding me?
WWE Character Developments and Debate
00:11:15
Speaker
I have that ghost to Obi-Wan. Yeah. I think I got that from like a Pop-Tart box, had to send in some proof of purchases. Those Star Wars action figures between 95 and 98 were hot. They were just like the war experience Viking Raiders now. Viking Raider war machine experience. Derek, they've changed their names two times since we've last spoken. But does the first time really count? That's my argument with a lot of people.
00:11:44
Speaker
You think Viking experience doesn't count? No, I'm saying that when they went from war machine to war Raiders, like when you go to WWE, your name a lot of times gets changed. Not always, but I mean, to me, that's almost a given. Like people holding that against like the name change there. Cause to me, war Raiders was fine. I had accepted that. The Viking experience. I had moved on.
00:12:11
Speaker
Yeah, like I wasn't holding, like the Viking experience was really bad and it wasn't necessary. Did we ever get an explanation for why? I assume that War Raiders sounded too violent. What the fuck? But somebody who knows what a Viking is.
00:12:32
Speaker
So then they became the Viking experience. And then they became the Viking Raiders. And now they're the Viking warriors. Are they really? Yeah, they changed it again today. Did they really? Yeah. Is this going to be their gimmick? Is it every week they have a new name until they can decide what they are?
00:12:57
Speaker
They just come out. You know what why not the Viking boys with a Z? That's the next week BOIS. I don't know you can you can make it cute you call them fucking rock dads. I don't care Did anything else noteworthy happen on raw this week? Oh, you know they're gonna change the name of heavy machinery now They're over on smack down. They're just called coming hard
00:13:22
Speaker
Wait, wait, wait, wait. Come and hard or come and hard? That's their names. Guess who's come. We already had the copyright on Jizz.
00:13:34
Speaker
By the way, did we get an email from Jizz or anything in our social media? We did not get an email, but we did get a message from our West Coast correspondent, John. He sent me a tweet that was from, it was a WWE.com exclusive clip. And it was heavy machinery backstage with a backstage interviewer. And it's just Jizz and the interviewer both holding like slabs of meat. And they're just like slapping it.
00:14:05
Speaker
They're just slapping the meat and it's beating their meat. It's just a gift of them beating their meat. And John just sent, he knows. He knows. Like everyone else is getting convinced at this point. Yeah. This was a week where we'll talk about our WWE stuff, but this was a week where you happened to catch raw.
00:14:29
Speaker
but you didn't catch SmackDown other than the highlights. And I happened to catch all of SmackDown, but I only saw highlights of Raw. What happened on Raw this week that's noteworthy, that the listeners of predetermined pro wrestling hangout are gonna be like, hey, I wanna hear those two fucking assholes talk about that. So the show opens with Seth Rollins coming out and talking about being- He came out? He came out, he's gay now. I mean, he has been the whole time, it's fine. We love him. Your wife hates him?
00:14:59
Speaker
That we got to cut that Aren't they in on the joke by now? I don't know I mean if they hadn't if they missed that one episode then it's like she seems hateful. She's not it was all in fun It was a misunderstanding on her part. It was a misunderstanding but so before Seth Rollins even comes out they announced two triple threat matches and
00:15:24
Speaker
They say that these two triple threat matches are happening and at the end of the night the two people who won those two triple threat matches go on to face Seth, whoever wins that in the main event goes on to face Seth Rollins. But then Seth Rollins comes out and they act like they didn't already tell me this was the match. And then have each of these six guys come out to interrupt him individually and then announce the match again.
00:15:50
Speaker
So basically they said, hey, this is what you're going to get. And then they went through the motions of setting up those matches that they already told you you were going to get.
00:15:58
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know if they were trying to tell me like, here are the matches just in case you skip this entire long talking segment. This is happening later. And then they spend the next 20 minutes announcing these matches as these guys come out. But the match, dude, these were so fucking good. I'm not joking. This was one of my favorite Raw matches I've seen in a long time. The first triple threat, AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Rey Mysterio.
00:16:25
Speaker
And as these guys started coming out one at a time, shit-talking Seth Rollins, I started getting excited because then I realized like, fuck yeah, I'll watch Rey Mysterio versus Seth Rollins. Hell yeah, I'll watch AJ Styles versus Seth Rollins. It made me realize, okay, I'm excited for what's to come. And it's been a while since I felt that optimistic with the product where there's matches I'm excited to see again.
00:16:51
Speaker
So you think that what they did during the superstar shakeup actually will draw interest again? I think it will, especially after these guys came out and cut promos, because after those three came out, then it was McIntyre, Miz, and Baron Corbin. And Miz was introducing us to the new Miz. New Miz is brave. New Miz is a brave boy. He unlocked some things in himself during that Shane McMahon match that he didn't know about, which is that he's a brave boy now.
00:17:20
Speaker
Well, he is based on that fucking spot he had at Mania, yeah. That's a great boy. And what's funny is he did a high spot, kind of, in his triple threat. Like, Miz looked awesome. Like, he was actually going after things. He wasn't doing anything heelish. We actually have a version of Miz that as he was going, you're like, I could see him going for the heavyweight championship right now.
00:17:43
Speaker
Who'd they decide to go for in that match, of course? Uh, Baron Corbin. But at one point, Miz climbed to the top rope to jump on two guys that were on the ground outside. Oh, shit. And I'll tell you, when he jumped...
00:17:57
Speaker
He had the look of a man who thought, I don't know if this is really my style yet. I don't normally do this sort of thing. But I'm on Raw again. I don't want to say he flapped his arms like a bird trying to fly as he jumped, but it wasn't the most graceful landing. But I appreciate that he's letting us know you're going to see some shit from the Miz that you don't normally see. Do you like seeing the Miz get out of his comfort zone right now?
00:18:25
Speaker
Yeah, I've liked the Miz for a long time now, and that's no secret. So to see a version of him that is confident? Hell yeah. Hell yeah, Miz deserves confidence.
00:18:36
Speaker
I think I'll ask the question that maybe a lot of our listeners would like to ask you, which is that, you know, it seems like one of the big drawing things for you really getting back into pro wrestling hardcore was when you started checking out the indie scene and watching a lot of the hard hitting stuff coming out of New Japan. How do you find an attachment to a guy like the Miz in all of that?
00:19:00
Speaker
Well, I didn't originally like him. I mean, this was several years in the making of seeing how talented he was on the microphone and just how talented he was at drawing heat and being just a really good shit-talking heel. I like a good heel and that was at a time when, you know, no one could get booed.
00:19:24
Speaker
that was supposed to get booed. Like the crowd was always just doing the opposite and it felt like Miz was drawing the reaction he was supposed to be getting.
00:19:41
Speaker
Is that what they call expock heat? I was about to ask, is that what it is? And what does it mean exactly? Well, I was trying to figure this out myself. So that triple threat match Baron Corbin wins, the other triple threat match AJ Styles wins, which that AJ match is the one I'm saying was one of my favorites I've seen in a long time. And you see AJ Styles have a match that shows that he's a good fucking wrestler and he doesn't have to win in weird ways.
00:20:09
Speaker
Like, he just outwrestled those two other guys and won. There was no shenanigans. No dick hits. No James Ellsworth. You know, nothing weird. Well, the end of the night, you get AJ Styles, Baron Corbin, and ultimately, Styles goes on to win. And we're getting AJ Styles' Seth Rollins for the Universal title at Money in the Bank, and we're getting it a lot sooner than I think we thought we were gonna get it.
00:20:35
Speaker
Oh, yeah, when I saw those two going up against each other, I figured this is money in the bank. A title match at Money in the Bank is not the main event. The main event is the ladder match. So I was like, I could see them putting Baron Corbin in this, having him win by cheating. And just this be like, you know, just a kind of a softball to Seth Rollins. It's a mid card title match. But that is not what we got at all. So.
00:21:03
Speaker
Going back to Baron Corbin, what exactly is going on with the Baron Corbin heat? Because I feel like I see this daily, which is people trying to define how much they hate Baron Corbin and why they hate him. And the like, I see people tying Baron Corbin to the ratings that Raw gets. What, what's your perception on all of this? I mean, how do you feel about Corbin and what, what is different about him than everybody else?
00:21:32
Speaker
Everybody seems to just genuinely dislike the guy. Anytime I see Corbin, I think of that, well fuck, what was that NXT reality show they used to have on the network? Breaking ground.
00:21:45
Speaker
Right. Breaking ground, like throughout that whole thing, Baron Corbin looks like an asshole even behind the scenes. One of the most memorable scenes in the whole thing is Baron Corbin while they're all setting up the ring, eating chipotle. And Mojo Raleigh walks by holding a beam and he just looks over and goes, yeah, eat that food. Eat that food. What?
00:22:10
Speaker
Basically, everybody's working, but Baron Corbin isn't and he's just like, yeah, I'm eating this food. Fuck you. And later Scott Hall comes to talk to them about, you know, just their characters and Baron Corbin. I think he was originally they were trying to make him like a Goldberg because remember he's crushing everybody in like eight seconds and the crowd would just count until he did his deep six and then the match was over.
00:22:32
Speaker
Yeah. But nobody liked it. And I think it was Scott Hall that said to Baron Corbin, he goes, they figured you out, didn't they? They figured out that you're an asshole and they don't like you. So at that point, though, is Baron Corbin now? I would say his matches weren't terrible on Monday night. But once again, he's with AJ Styles.
00:22:58
Speaker
Uh, but do we, is he an effective heel and that's the heat he's getting or do we just, do people just genuinely not like the guy or are they truly all being worked? See, I felt this way back in 2004.
00:23:13
Speaker
When JBL won the WWE Championship from Eddie Guerrero, I felt like the joke was that nobody likes JBL. Nobody thinks he's very good. And that's the joke. And that's why he's getting booed. But I think it went on long enough that eventually it worked. I think people came around on JBL.
00:23:34
Speaker
I don't know if that's happening with Corbin, but the thing is, I liked Corbin better when he was kind of had that metal edge to him or whatever. How would you describe it? Like he at least dressed like he shopped at Hot Topic. I think he looked like a roadie for like Exodus. He looked like a roadie for like an 80s thrash metal band.
00:23:58
Speaker
But I'm just saying like it does the the heat kind of doesn't match like he's not bear is he still? What the fuck is he? He's an asshole with a different haircut. Yeah, like you can you can do something different. He's the same asshole, right? I don't know. It's a weird look. I mean, I can't tell anybody they're wrong for disliking the guy, but I is it because he's an effective healer. Do you just think he's boring?
00:24:26
Speaker
At this point though, is it boring when he comes out? I mean obviously there's a lot better wrestlers than him and he is getting spots that there's people you'd rather see in and I think that's the main issue. Is a midcard guy? Like if Baron Corbin had the United States Championship, I would give the exact same amount of shit for that title as I would with Samoa Joe having it.
00:24:50
Speaker
Is that true though? Yes, 100%. I feel like people have a prejudice against the United States title and I don't understand it. Is it weird that maybe it's because it's slightly smaller?
00:25:09
Speaker
I mean, that could be your thing, but I don't know. Like, when Samoa Joe walks out with his tiny little toy title and shows Seth Rollins, and Seth Rollins holding his big title, I'm just like, well, obviously, his is better. We all know this one's the better one, I think. That seems like such an arbitrary thing. I mean, you're not wrong in that it seems a little bit smaller, but is it because it looks like a toy? Is it because it's an old WCW title? Like, what the fuck is it? Is it because it has been like the fourth belt?
00:25:37
Speaker
I think it's just because it is a belt that's there to exist to give bigger names something to do when they're not in the real title picture. And that's a problem because I need a guy who has it that like somebody really, really wants that title, but I never- But why does that get different treatment than the Intercontinental Championship?
00:25:58
Speaker
I don't know. I feel like the IC title has a more prestigious history. What's the biggest thing? I can't think of anything big with the US title, but maybe I'm just blocking it out of my head. The US title, if they acknowledge its entire history, which I think they do, goes back, I think maybe even beyond WCW, but at least back to WCW. Flair and Sting used to hold that thing.
00:26:24
Speaker
Was it exciting then? I would assume. It's probably more exciting if they were going for the heavyweight championship. I mean, I don't know. I've always been a fan of the United States title. I'm weirded out that there's like a weird prejudice against it. Well, let's, okay, let's say, let's say out of nowhere on Monday, Nick Aldis' music hits and he walks into the ring with the NWA title. And he's up against Samoa Joe and they're both showing their titles.
00:26:55
Speaker
Which title would you rather have? Well, I mean, obviously, I think I would rather have the 10 pounds of gold, but I mean, it's a world title. I was just saying, because that was a title that has a misspelling on it that you don't love that we've talked about. Yeah, that drives me fucking nuts. And a guy who makes his opponents fall asleep and he just pends them. Well, Nick Aldous has not won us over since all ends, so.
00:27:26
Speaker
I will say for those who aren't in the know, if you look at the 10 pounds of gold, it says world's heavyweight champion, but it's spelled W-O-R-L-D-S, not apostrophe S, meaning that this is the world's heavyweight champion. No, it's world as in more than one world, as in, you know, fucking Tatooine, Hoth. As in eater of worlds. Oh, yeah.
RAW and SmackDown Discussions
00:27:55
Speaker
Yeah. That's my transition to talk about that guy. That was a smooth transition to talk about the hot angle that debuted on Monday Night Raw. Bray Wyatt's back. Bray Wyatt is back is like a demented Mr. Rogers character that maybe has a split personality disorder. He kind of teases it like he's got some darkness inside of him, but he promises that it'll never ever come out again. Well, it's like a fusion between Mr. Rogers and Pee Wee's Playhouse.
00:28:24
Speaker
So I am seeing a real heavy 50-50 split on the internet on this one. Yeah, I'm seeing that too. What do you feel about it? Because my reaction was, this is interesting. This is cool. Let's see where it goes.
00:28:42
Speaker
Oh, I was screaming. Yes. I loved it. I loved every second of it. We need something that's a little dumb because it's fun. And Bray Wyatt definitely needs something different because he said it himself. He was a loser.
00:28:58
Speaker
like that was a shoot I think he was yeah he was shooting on that character Bray Wyatt was a fucking loser I think people are frustrated because they felt like the old Bray Wyatt character had potential that they just fucked up like it had nothing to do with the character or his portrayal that fucked that up it was a completely how they handled it Hans Gruber
00:29:22
Speaker
And Die Hard could have been booked to win and just destroy Nakatomi Plaza and kill everybody and get his money and leave. But unfortunately, that's not how he was booked. So Hans Gruber sucks and he died. He fell off a building. Bray Wyatt fell off the same building. And into the lake of whatever. The Hardy compound. The lake of resurrection, whatever the fuck. I like that they went with another weird angle for him rather than just bring him back as like a normal character.
00:29:52
Speaker
Yeah, but he's still a little bit sinister. I guess that's why I was being collected with my review of this. I want to see where it goes, because I want to see it works as a segment on the show. I want to see how that character translates to a wrestling ring. Is he still going to wear the sweater?
00:30:14
Speaker
One, I hope. Two, I hope he ends up getting like, you know, like a Miz TV type show where they set up, you know, Bray Wyatt's fun house in the middle of the ring and have guests come while the puppets are in the ring and have, you know, like Drew McIntyre, somebody who's going to be pissed off to have to talk to a puppet and then just boot the puppet's head off. Yes. I didn't even think about that. Now I want that more than anything.
00:30:43
Speaker
There's a lot of possibilities with this. And then think about characters they could add on with him to join him. Is there anybody not doing shit right now that could like maybe a Viking experience or something?
00:30:59
Speaker
The Viking War Raider machine experience will be mere props on the set of Firefly Fun House. A bunny is going to have to come into play at some point because they only introduced the vulture and the doll. But there is a bunny on the logo. Oh, I noticed that too. I don't think I did not see that third character on the side. I was ready for an introduction, didn't get it. Now I have to tune in next week.
00:31:29
Speaker
So, I'm going to pick it up here, I guess, because you did watch SmackDown this week? Yeah, I did not. I watched the highlights of SmackDown, did not watch the whole show, though. So you didn't get to see the big flub that Shane McMahon had in the opening segment on Raw, or on SmackDown, sorry. What'd he say, welcome to AEW? No, that would have been really fucking hilarious.
00:31:54
Speaker
So he was trying to talk about how bad it was that Roman Reigns had attacked Vince McMahon and he said it was like defacing Rount Mushmore. Rount Mushmore? Rount Mushmore.
00:32:08
Speaker
He meant to say Mount Rushmore, and it came out Rount Mushmore. And then that was trending online. Who are the four faces on Rount Mushmore? Otis, Jizz, the barber beefcake, and Abdullah the Butcher.
00:32:25
Speaker
the match.
00:32:40
Speaker
And as a result, she's going to get another shot at Becky and the Smackdown Women's Championship. So Becky Two Belts is going to have two matches at Money in the Bank. Yeah. Yeah. So not only is Becky going to face Lacey Evans for the Raw title, she's going to face Charlotte for the Smackdown title and
00:32:59
Speaker
I don't know. I think people really wanted to see Bailey win that, especially since she just got drafted over. Well, Bailey shouldn't have complained about her position in the company. And she's like, well, the revival did it, and they won a title. We'll talk about that in a minute. But also, I don't know. It's crazy to see how they just casually
00:33:23
Speaker
introduced Andrade and Zelina Vega back to SmackDown to face Finn Balor, which it was a pretty good match. I don't think it was as good as their one that they had on Raw last week. And then they brought Aleister Black over. They just completely ignored that shakeup.
00:33:39
Speaker
And it was supposedly done for a couple of reasons, at least with with Andrade. I guess Fox wants to have a Hispanic wrestler on the show that they can draw people in with. And supposedly Charlotte wanted Andrade over there because they're in a relationship together. They may have even gotten engaged, Garrett. That's what I'm hearing. Are we part of the ceremony? I would like to think so.
00:34:05
Speaker
We may even be the MCs. Oh, that sucks. For who? I'm just saying, she probably knows some of the best talkers in the business and for whatever reason, she's booked us. Because we're some of the best talkers in the business. Alistair Black, he's in a relationship with Zalina. Thank you. He's in a relationship with Vega, so I guess they got put together over there and yeah.
00:34:33
Speaker
So if you want to be on a specific brand, you just need to find somebody that's willing to pretend to be in a relationship with you. It's kind of like how you get a green card. That's what Otis is back there. He's afraid he's going to leave. He's just trying to find a girlfriend because he wants to stay where he's at. He's trying to convince fucking Billy Kay to say that she's in a relationship with him.
00:34:59
Speaker
and he just can't get it to happen, and that's sad, and you know what? We're gonna find him a date. Hey, Garrett, did you see what happened with the new day and Kevin Owens? I did. I saw that West Coast correspondent John's prediction immediately came true. Everyone's prediction? Because that's what happens when you befriend Kevin Owens on a long enough timeline. Doesn't even have to be a long timeline. You're getting it in the back. So he's already heel again? Oh, yeah.
00:35:28
Speaker
Does that make you sad or were you kinda? I was very happy. See, when he does dick moves, you love it. I make you eat a cat hot dog and then you don't love it. I don't get this. Well, he's not doing it to me. You did it to me. Kofi Kingston and the New Day represent all of us. That's not true. And he did it to you, Derek. Some of us aren't nuts about pastel colors.
00:35:55
Speaker
or unicorns, or just pancakes that have no syrup on them being chucked around. Would you not eat a syrup-less pancake? No, I don't think I would. If it were handed to you by the new day and you caught it, you wouldn't just eat it? I might then. So there's specific circumstances. Yeah, I mean, I might mark out a little bit, but like I'm not gonna, for sustenance, eat a dry pancake. That's fucked up.
00:36:24
Speaker
Anyways, I thought the Indian segment on SmackDown was wonderful and I had a lot of fun. I think it was a good show this week. I think some people were upset that the New Day KO stuff didn't last a little bit longer, but I think at the same point, everyone was predicting that that was going to happen anyway. So I don't, it's weird to see people say,
00:36:42
Speaker
that they want to see a thing get drug out longer that they know is inevitably coming anyway. And Kofi didn't have an opponent for Money in the Bank. And I think everyone's excited about this matchup regardless of how you want to spin it. So Raw and SmackDown seem like they were really good this week. Yeah, I could see myself being excited for Money in the Bank other than did you see their huge fuck up with when they booked Money in the Bank.
00:37:08
Speaker
So you texted me this the other day and I know this may upset some people but I don't watch Game of Thrones so this went under my radar.
00:37:18
Speaker
See, I am my wife watches it a lot. A lot of my friends watch it. I mean, I have to think, though, that the crossover audience for Game of Thrones and WWE has to be nearly 100 percent or at least WWE fans going enjoying Game of Thrones. I mean, the shows, the one of the most viewed shows in the entire world. So the show's finale happens to fall the same night as Money in the Bank.
00:37:44
Speaker
Yes, a finale that people are really, really excited about. Like, one of the biggest TV finales in the history of us being alive. Do we know that they knew when the finale was going to be when they booked that venue for that event? I guess we don't, but they probably could have. I feel like if you're in the entertainment industry, you take a gander to see if there's anything big happening on the night of your show.
00:38:12
Speaker
And well, but also it hasn't the game for WWE pay-per-views changed in the sense that they don't have pay-per-view buys anymore. They just have network subscriptions. So even if you don't fucking watch and you want to watch on Monday or Tuesday, do they really care that you aren't watching at that exact moment on Sunday night? I don't know. I would be more worried about the crowd not being full.
00:38:39
Speaker
I don't know. Aren't they doing it like in Hartford or something? I have no idea. I didn't know where money in the bank was this year. This will actually be I went to it the last two years because it was in St. Louis two years ago and then Chicago last year with you. So yeah, it was not driving distance this time around. Yeah. Oh, Helen sells in Atlanta. So I think I'm going to drive over to that. I don't know. I would like to think that they will be able to pack that building with enough people that it's not going to matter that Game of Thrones is on that night.
00:39:09
Speaker
So just just speaking of the crowd and like crowd size. So Andrew Hendren had us watch a match. He sent it to you and I on Facebook. This was Midnight Express with Jim Cornett versus.
00:39:26
Speaker
Was it the Fanatics? What was their name? The Fantastics? The Fantastics. He just said this was one of his all-time favorite tag team matches and sent it over to us. And I think you watched it too, right? I did. I happened to pull that up on YouTube on the telly and check.
Classic Match Review
00:39:43
Speaker
I watched this intently. And the whole time I'm sitting there watching this match, the one thing that kept crossing my mind was is Garrett mad that he's watching a match that heavily involves Jim Cornette.
00:39:56
Speaker
Jim Cornette, in this blurry old video, looked like Quentin Tarantino with a shittier haircut. And he really got involved in this match. He just as well have been in it. If I were the referee, I wouldn't have let him stand on the ring apron as much as he did.
00:40:14
Speaker
Yeah, I guess the refs didn't do the whole you're out of here and toss people from a ringside back in this this time frame. But this was a fun little tag match. I mean, I think I think for our taste, I think there were moments were a little slow where it was a lot of holds and building up to that hot tag. But now Andrew hook us up with a good one here. And man, when that tag does come, that place comes and glued. That pop is so fucking loud.
00:40:44
Speaker
Oh my god the crowd what I was enjoying is I could not tell how big the arena they were were in was because they were just lighting the ring in the first few rows but it sounded like there were exactly but it sounded like there were 60,000 people in that room and they were cheering so goddamn loud this whole match and when that hot tag finally came that pop
00:41:09
Speaker
was, I mean, it was incredible. It was incredible. As loud as anything you've ever heard. Yeah, I mean, that would have been like, I can't imagine being witness to pops bigger than that one, especially for a match where three of the four people wrestling look damn near the exact same.
00:41:26
Speaker
Right. And I think it's so weird because we're so used to like elaborately designed tights and costumes and shit. And we watch wrestling now and then you go back and watch wrestling from this era where three of the four people involved are wearing red tights and one person's wearing green tights and there isn't even any like words or things on there to distinguish them. And not saying that it makes it shitty. It's just it's jarring to see.
00:41:53
Speaker
Well, if you want to watch two guys in red with mullets fight each other for a long time, this is a match for you. Yeah, definitely go check out Midnight Express with Jim Cornette versus the Fantastix on YouTube. This is a prime example of a tag match where you don't have to do a ton of stuff. You just kind of use your manager to get some heat and then a build to that hot tag. Do you notice all the police around the ring?
00:42:15
Speaker
Yeah, we need that more often. I know. Think of like this. The Enzo thing wouldn't have happened, which apparently is for sure was a work. The Bret Hart thing wouldn't have happened. That crazy fan wouldn't have been able to get to him. We need more police around the ring. I like that. I like a cop who sees the manager interfering. That referee, man, he could not get control of that match. And he was having a goddamn seizure at the beginning. You know who I blame for this bullshit.
00:42:44
Speaker
Who? Bill Goldberg. Bill Goldberg has been using up all the pro wrestling police over the years just to escort him to the ring. Did any of the police that escorted him to the ring ever get attacked? No, I don't think so. But at the same time, if he's as deadly as they make him seem, why are they like, why does he need security? I've always wondered this. I always looked at it as the police were protecting everyone else from him on the walk to the ring. Is that the case?
00:43:15
Speaker
You can make what you want of it. I had never thought of it that way. It's weird that, you know, I'm about to turn 32 here soon. I had never considered that the police were protecting a wild Bill Goldberg from attacking people. He's just too pumped up that if some fan comes and tries to touch his shoulder on the way to the ring, he's gonna knock him the fuck out. Except I don't remember how good Bill Goldberg's working punch was and Jim Cornette's in this match. Pretty good.
00:43:46
Speaker
So as I'm watching the match every time they cut over to Cornette and he's doing his fucking silly shit, all I could hear in the back of my head was you saying, Chuck Taylor's ruining the fucking business. God, I would pay money to sit there and watch an Orange Cassidy match with Jim Cornette.
00:44:05
Speaker
Oh god, he would have a fucking field day. Hey, I sent you a thing over the weekend.
New Japan Wrestling Exploration
00:44:14
Speaker
I sent you what I consider to be a game changer for navigating the New Japan World website.
00:44:22
Speaker
You got this from a friend, though, let's be clear. I guess we're allowed to share this with our listeners eventually, right? Yeah, I asked if this was a private thing and he said no. West Coast correspondent John, he, about a year ago, maybe even longer ago, sent me this New Japan spreadsheet that somebody had compiled.
00:44:41
Speaker
And it has the best matches from, let's see, where does it start? I mean, the first match listed is from 1973. So it is from the start of the company until now, or until actually the end of last year is where this spreadsheet stops. But he has listed a bunch of matches. How many matches to be exact? Let me scroll all the way to the bottom and tell you.
00:45:08
Speaker
Well, the point of this thing is that it's not every match ever in New Japan's history, but it's a good challenge. It's an absurd amount. 1933 matches are on this list. Yeah.
00:45:22
Speaker
And they're labeled in various ways that show it's worth a watch, you should check this out, or you like really need to check this out and it's color coded. And I just started scrolling through here and finding names that I wanted to see fight each other. And it already had, in the spreadsheet, it already has a link. So when you click it, it takes you exactly to that match on the New Japan site.
00:45:44
Speaker
So all you have to do is be logged in on your New Japan World account and you pull up this spreadsheet and you start scrolling through names and you can find things that you haven't seen before. You click on it and you get linked immediately to where that match is. That's that's good work. Whoever put this together really put a lot of fucking work into this. I don't even know who originally gave this away.
00:46:06
Speaker
and neither does the people that gave it to my friend. So it may have been somebody on Twitter, but if you do want this spreadsheet, shoot us an email at predeterminepodcastatgmail.com and I'll forward it on over to you. But this is how I spent my weekend. I was just, and it's so, once again, just watching like a banger match after another feels so good. It's like you're giving yourself the best possible wrestling show.
00:46:30
Speaker
So you were basically just playing pro wrestling roulette and just picking things at random that you hadn't seen before. Yeah. And the first thing I did was I was just like, you know what? I want to watch a Takahashi match. So I just started scrolling through the names, trying to find one. And I saw Ricochet versus Takahashi, May 21st, 2017, best of the super juniors.
00:46:52
Speaker
I happened to when you sent this over to me I checked out two different AJ Styles vs Okada matches and I checked out the one I think from May 3rd 2014 where Styles wins the title from Okada.
00:47:08
Speaker
And then I happened to check another one from I think a year later where Okada had the title again, but he beat Stiles this time and uh, both really good matches. You turned me on to a weird one because when I, this is one that we saw like last year, but Shinsuke Nakamura versus Shelton Benjamin.
00:47:27
Speaker
Yeah, I was flippin' through and I saw Shinsuke Nakamura versus Shelton Benjamin. I think you and I watched two different matches, but mine was for May 13th, Wrestling Dentaku, and it was for the IC title. And this is Shelton X Benjamin.
00:47:43
Speaker
Yeah. He goes by Shelton X Benjamin over there and I was really intrigued to watch an old match that I could have watched last year or probably did watch. Yeah. For that matter. So I looked that up. They totally wrestled on Smackdown Live last year. This match.
00:48:03
Speaker
I was just so curious to see, because I feel like I've missed out on that era where Shelton Benjamin was popular. So I'd never got to fully understand why people liked Shelton Benjamin.
00:48:16
Speaker
So going back and checking this out, this match was super interesting to me because it followed the New Japan structure where the match has a slower start. And as it's starting, it almost has the feel of a New Japan wrestler fighting a WWE wrestler. It's like they're fighting two different styles.
00:48:35
Speaker
right and you know one is obviously strong style and the others you know main event style and as it goes on Shelton Benjamin just gradually is kicking it up a notch and like fighting more and more New Japan style and it just gets so fucking wild at the end there's a point when they're both on the top rope
00:48:53
Speaker
like they're getting ready to go for a superplex off the top, but then somehow Shelton Benjamin spins around and throws Shinsuke Nakamura about three-fourths of the way across the ring from the top rope. It was fucking awesome.
00:49:09
Speaker
It's a little sad because I remember when Shelton Benjamin got drafted, he was in world's greatest tag team with Charlie Haas. And actually Benjamin was part of the same OVW graduating class with John Cena, Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton, and Batista. All those guys kind of broke into WWE at the same time.
00:49:32
Speaker
Benjamin I think was Brock Lesnar's coach in Minnesota when he was wrestling. So he's like a shoot, like he knows how to shoot wrestle. So it's not surprising that he's an amazing athlete. So nothing about him hanging in a new Japan surprises me. Well, okay. What about his character throughout WWE? Has he ever been a, like, has he been a charismatic fellow, Derek? No, not really. And that's kind of always been his Achilles heel.
00:50:00
Speaker
I do think you should go back and watch some of his stuff from like 2004 to 2006. There is some really good Shelton Benjamin matches that you can check out on the network. And especially, he was another guy who did a lot of crazy stuff in those money in the bank matches or any of the gimmick matches that they had.
00:50:17
Speaker
And that was before Kofi was around so I don't know like it's like Kofi was known for doing a lot of the cool crazy stunts during the rumble but Benjamin did a lot of the wacky ass shit in the money in the bank matches and
00:50:34
Speaker
It sucks because I feel like, and I don't want to get into a whole subject with race on this podcast, but what's so refreshing about the position they put Kofi Kingston in right now, this is the big compliment I'll give. Vince has had a tendency in the past to, with his black wrestlers, really only booked them as the black athlete.
00:50:54
Speaker
and he doesn't necessarily give them a lot of personality. Booker T's kind of the exception, but he was more of a WCW product by the time he got there. His character was pretty much built in and I don't know, this is a tie that back to the present. Like I, like Benjamin's matches were fucking a plus and hell of an athlete. Um, so I don't know. Where am I going with this carrot?
00:51:18
Speaker
I mean, you were just trying to sell me on Shelton Benjamin. Yeah, go back and watch some Shelton matches. I wouldn't say he's charismatic, but if you're watching him, I guess it doesn't matter. Sorry. Even against Shinsuke, though, you could tell, like, this guy's a great wrestler, but he's kind of just boring. Like, there's nothing about him that, like, I can tell he's crazy talented, but he doesn't seem exciting. Well... That being said, it was a great fucking match.
00:51:48
Speaker
But I guess just once again, like if I guess they can email us if they want this list. Yeah, just send us an email at predetermined podcast at Gmail dot com. And I'll I'll forward it over to you. Trust me, it's worth it. Like, I mean, I went through I was watching Kenny Omega versus Prince Devitt, Battle of the Super Junior's. Oh, my God. At one point, Kenny Omega does the, you know, like the Terminator flip that he does. Yeah. And this is babyface Kenny Omega, like bright green tights, you know,
00:52:18
Speaker
Finn Balor's the bad guy in this point, but rest of the Bullet Club's out there fucking with him. But Finn Balor goes out of the ring. Kenny Omega goes to do the Terminator flip that he does. He goes over the barricade and just lands on a guy in the front row.
00:52:36
Speaker
Like a large man, his seat breaks, crumbles. Prince Devitt gets a table out and sits it up on the outside with Kenny on it, climbs onto the top rope to give him a coup de gras through the table onto the floor. And you know those fucking Japanese tables don't break and this one is no different. He stomps Kenny right in the chest and all that happens are the back legs fall down where his head was so that he just slides onto his head. It looks so fucking painful.
00:53:07
Speaker
Um, baller versus a bushy Wrestle Kingdom five. I was just having a goddamn field day. I'm saying message us, get this thing and do the same. This is fun. I almost want to play a, like a new Japan roulette. Like Derek, maybe right now I should have you choose a number between, uh, one and 1933. And that's what we'll watch that match next week. Just hit me with a number.
00:53:34
Speaker
I guess the catch is this list is really only helpful if you have a New Japan World subscription though, right? I mean, that's true, but you should have a New Japan subscription at this point. They do good. I don't know if you heard, but they do good work. I'm just saying for the listeners, like this doesn't just apply to everyone. You do have to have the subscription, but either way, if you do email us, you definitely want this list. There's some good stuff to check out on there. In fact, there's a lot of good shit to check out on there because it's a lot of fucking matches.
00:54:03
Speaker
with a number. What do you got?
00:54:06
Speaker
Between what and what? I think it actually starts at number six at the top and goes down to nineteen hundred and thirty three. What about fourteen hundred and fifty two? Fourteen hundred and fifty two. All right, Derek, what are you watching for next week? You are watching. I hope I can pronounce their names. Oh, shit. This is super easy. Kenny Omega versus Tetsuya Naito G1 Climax Day 19.
00:54:37
Speaker
Yeah. I'm actually very excited for that now. That sounds fun. I was looking through here. I even saw that one of the Bucks had a singles match in New Japan. And I realized I have never seen either of them do a singles match. Well, what number is that? I don't know. Yeah. Hot shot. So you want to get serious for a minute? Can I dig at you for some information here?
00:55:06
Speaker
Yeah, get some information out of me, man. I'm ready for it.
00:55:26
Speaker
And the story is that she was extremely unhappy about the way she's either been booked or about the fact that she had to drop the tag titles along with Bailey to the Iconics at Mania. And so she said she's going home.
00:55:44
Speaker
And she's taking time off and she thinks she might be done with WWE.
Sasha Banks Controversy
00:55:48
Speaker
That was the story for about a week, maybe a little bit more. I guess the update is that they're still at an impasse and it looks like she might be done. And I'm just speculating this is the news out there.
00:56:03
Speaker
that she's not going to come back until they promise her another women's championship run or another tag title run. And so you couple this story with the news of Luke Harper asking for his release and getting it. You couple it with, I guess, Goldust time with the company ending so you can go face Cody at double or nothing.
00:56:26
Speaker
the old story about the revival being unhappy about how they were being booked. Lots of these stories coming out of WWE. What's your take on it? Like, I mean, I feel like I kind of know what you're probably going to say, but
00:56:42
Speaker
I mean, there's a lot of arguing, there's a lot of controversy surrounding whatever Sasha Banks' position or her deciding to leave. It feels very CM punkish, which is another story we gotta talk about. But what do you think, man? What do you think's happening in WWE right now? Cuz it has something to do with AEW, don't you think?
00:57:03
Speaker
You would think that it does, but also all of these wrestlers can't count on having a job over at AEW. And I don't know that I want every single WWE wrestler that leaves to go immediately to AEW. I don't want that to seem like a leftover show. Yeah, that was TNA's problem. They just took ex-WWE people. Like some of these people that are leaving might find themselves an impact at some point.
00:57:34
Speaker
I guess this is kind of the conclusion that I came to when trying to figure out how I felt about the Sasha Banks thing, which is that the way you feel about it is kind of dependent upon how much you support the person or the character or where you feel their position in the company should be.
00:57:56
Speaker
because I think we can both agree that like the booking of the Bayley Sasha stuff over the last year and a half that they really dropped the ball on that. And so some of the booking with the women's wrestling in general hasn't been the best, but I see this is what, this is what gets me is that not everybody gets to be the champion, right? Like, like to say that you're being booked bad because you're not the champion,
00:58:27
Speaker
which apparently was one of her demands. To me, I don't have a problem with them having an issue with how they're being booked, but it just kind of comes across to me as weird that you're just going home because they won't let you have the belt. That seems very Mercish, and I don't like using that word, at least in that context.
00:58:47
Speaker
I mean, I see where she's coming from because she was so hot there for a while. I mean, she was, I mean, probably my favorite wrestler in the entire company there for what? I mean, a year or so.
00:58:58
Speaker
And then, I mean, she's right, the way they booked her got me to kind of quit caring as much. You can't be in a company with that many people and have that many people be on top. I mean, if we were just with the same six women like we were before, then yeah, we can play hot potato with the tag and get everybody over at some point. But I mean, right now their women's roster is so deep and they need to start, you know, building new talent. And Sasha Banks isn't new.
00:59:26
Speaker
Well, but do you really feel like since she's been called up that she has like Sasha Banks in particular? Do you really feel like she is the prime example of getting the short end of the stick? I get to me, that's kind of where I have a problem with this. And this is why I think the Sasha Banks story is completely different from the revival before the revival won the raw tag titles and then lost them and then won them back or whatever and lost them again.
00:59:53
Speaker
They weren't being utilized at all. In fact, it was like they were being punished. They weren't getting TV time. They weren't being treated like the tag team that got way over in NXT, which the NXT to WWE main roster transition is a, we could do a whole episode on how difficult that's seemingly been.
01:00:11
Speaker
But do you really feel like the revival, how they were handled like their first year on the roster, compares to how Sasha, I mean, they practically rolled out the red carpet for her. Yeah, they gave her a great story. Her story being that Charlotte kept winning the title and she was having to try and get it back. I mean, they went back and forth for a while. It was where Charlotte would win it at pay-per-views and Sasha would win it back on TV.
01:00:40
Speaker
Right. And I also really enjoyed that we got to have title matches that changed hands on television. That was fun as shit. And it makes me think she had a great fucking match. One of those nights that she won the title, she tapped Charlotte in the middle of the fans by giving her the bank statement around a guardrail. Right. That was awesome.
01:00:58
Speaker
Wasn't she also in the first women's howl in a cell match also awesome I think do you think though that her point of view is I was in all of these women's first matches that people loved and now I'm not really doing anything But shouldn't she take a moment to be happy for Becky That's true because during that whole time Becky wasn't getting shit I
01:01:22
Speaker
Right. Like that's what I have an issue with is that it, that's what I meant earlier when I said how upset you are, how much you support or don't support Sasha. Isn't that just in relation to where like you as a fan think that she belongs? Like, cause like we were talking about a minute ago, there's other people that need to have opportunities. There was a time period where Becky wasn't doing shit. And actually that was a year ago.
01:01:44
Speaker
There's an interesting movement online now that Becky has won both titles and this happens in Pro Wrestling. Somebody finally gets to their spot and now there's backlash against Becky. There's a certain number of fans who are trying to shit talk Becky now that she's whatever the main event of Mania. The point is a year ago, she wasn't doing shit and she turned it into what happened at Mania 35. Does Sasha have more of a right to complain than say a Dana Brooke?
01:02:12
Speaker
or a Nikki Cross or an Ember Moon. Like, it just comes across as you're a mark for yourself. Or even Asuka. Right! I mean, given Asuka's had, like, what, a couple Smackdown Women's title runs, maybe did she win the Raw one?
01:02:30
Speaker
I can't fucking remember now. I'm trying to remember, didn't we see her win a title? Like we saw her have a title match, right? When we had money in the bank last year. We did. It was for the Smackdown title. Carmella beat her for it. Yeah. Cause Ellsworth came out dressed as Asuka. Yeah. Yeah. So to me, it's just, if, if Sasha's upset about the way she's been booked, I agree with it. But if the position is I feel like I should be the champion all the time, if that's,
01:02:58
Speaker
If that's really the issue, like fuck. Bailey got worse treatment. Do you remember when Alexa Bliss beat the shit out of Bailey with a kendo stick and then there's been no recovery since then? I was in Chicago in your living room watching that pay-per-view and I think that, I still remember that being my favorite match of the night. Bailey was ruined forever after that. But Bailey's still showing up for work. And I'm not even saying that Bailey doesn't have a right to be pissed off. I'm just saying,
01:03:25
Speaker
I don't know, the Sasha thing rubs me the wrong way because I look at the hand that she got dealt and felt like she's been treated way better than a lot of the women on that roster. I see that if you get to the top there, and you can't be the top there forever, every single sport ever, you're gonna get surpassed by somebody eventually.
01:03:43
Speaker
And in this one, they're bringing in so many people. There's always new faces. I don't blame her for leaving. At this point, you've done what you can there, right? You've won all the women's titles. You've had some enormous matches. I don't have a problem with her seeing what's elsewhere, but I don't know, to act like... I don't... I guess from her point of view, though, is it like, well, Charlotte gets to keep being champion forever and ever, why can't I?
01:04:09
Speaker
I mean, that's a valid argument. I think, I think, and you see people talk about this from time to time on the, on the social media, but there's people who think that the way Charlotte has been handled has been more grossly egregious than Roman Reigns that they just can't not have her involved. And that was a lot of people's complaint about that women's triple threat match at mania.
01:04:32
Speaker
They felt like it didn't need Charlotte, but they felt like it was a slight if she wasn't involved. And I don't know how much I want to get into that in this discussion, but the Sasha Banks thing has been building and the reason I tie it to AEW is because there's at least this perception from a lot of wrestling fans that AEW has already changed the game in the sense that now some of these guys and ladies are, they have an option.
01:04:58
Speaker
and that when they feel like they're not being handled correctly, they can go somewhere else and get those opportunities. I think Cody said over the weekend that AEW is not going to be a place that you can just automatically get a job if you leave WWE. He's right. I think one thing that people who are excited about AEW, which is a lot of people, your favorite wrestler
01:05:23
Speaker
that you wanted to see get an opportunity somewhere isn't necessarily going to be the fucking man at AEW. I mean, looking even just at the double or nothing card, one thing that I thought we were gonna get, you know, in this build on being the elite was possibly MJF versus Cody.
01:05:40
Speaker
Yeah, that kind of seemed like where it was headed, but now I don't know, maybe they just completely, they're going to do that later or, you know, the Dustin thing happened. So that's happening. But guys like Janela and MJF, they're in the Battle Royal at the beginning of Double or Nothing. So it's not like they have a big match again.
01:05:58
Speaker
I think that's something to keep in mind. And this isn't a defense of how WWE has booked or how they do their matches. I think people forget that it's hard that when you have a giant fucking roster, not everyone gets that top spot and not everybody gets the TV time that you would like to get. And this is the thing that really kind of got me about the Sasha thing.
01:06:23
Speaker
Most people would kill to be involved in a memorable moment in WWE history. Like if you're a professional wrestler, you wanna be involved in something memorable. Seven weeks prior to WrestleMania, her and Bayley were the first ever WWE Women's Tag Team Champions.
01:06:43
Speaker
They were given that moment. I mean, given they fought hard backstage from what I hear to make that happen. They earned that, they made that thing happen. I'm not taking that away, but I'm saying you were given that. That the history books will always show those two. I mean, you were given a momentous occasion. And furthermore, they were on the card at Mania. How many people were not on a show that was like 15 million hours. There were still people who did not get on that show.
01:07:12
Speaker
But I guess if you had it in your head, or were told, made to believe that you were about to be the next megapowers. You know, that you were going to be this really hot tag team that's going to define women's tag team wrestling, and then you find out the day of that that isn't the case anymore and you're dropping into a comedy act.
01:07:35
Speaker
I don't know, I can see both sides on this, but yeah, I mean, it's WWE. My question is, if you fought for those tag titles, then were you doing it for the ladies? Were you doing it for your coworkers and for the betterment of the company, or were you doing it for you? Well, maybe she should go after that US title. Can I tell you this? If Sasha Banks was out there beating the shit out of dudes for the US title, I'm into it.
01:08:03
Speaker
I mean, I get like Luke Harper leaving. I mean, that was going to be a hard identity for him to shake. You forget that the bludgeon brothers were a thing a year ago. Yeah. Yeah, I always liked Luke. And but I don't know if I I don't know. There's so much wrestling right now. Everybody's going to find something to do somewhere. Right.
01:08:26
Speaker
I mean, but going back to the AEW stuff, I'm, I'm in that camp that I'm really excited to see what they do. I'm really excited to hear what the TV announcement is. And I think people in their minds do have it hyped up to a point where they think it's going to be a savior for all of their favorite pro wrestlers. And they're still going to be an AEW. There's going to be a midcard. There's still going to be an opening match.
01:08:55
Speaker
And just because somebody that you watch fucking tear the house down for 25 minutes in New Japan or on the indie scene, like just because you know that they're fucking fantastic doesn't mean that they're going to be the first AEW champion or ever. And I want to see how that dynamic works. I want to see how they book shows and how much time they have and what they do. Like I want to see how they handle their roster, I guess is what I'm saying.
01:09:20
Speaker
comparison to the way WWE does. So we have a long time to wait. We do. God damn. Garrett, you know what you need to inform me. I flubbed that transition. I was going to ask, will you tell me about the Southern Underground Pro Show that you went to over the weekend? Because it feels like it's been a long time since you went to one of those.
01:09:45
Speaker
Yeah, I was starting to get an itch. Like, I hadn't seen live pro wrestling in a couple months. This is the longest I've gone in a while. It was starting to hurt. Luckily, Easter Sunday, Sup had my back. Yeah, I went to the show. I got there slightly late. I was hoping they were going to be running on, you know, like, indie wrestling time where you can show up 15 minutes late and still catch the first match. But this was the first show that they actually ran live on pay-per-view. Oh, okay.
01:10:13
Speaker
They ran it on what is it, independentwrestling.tv or I'd have to look it up and I don't have it in front of me. But they did actually stream the show live. So they were on a time crunch. Marco Stunt came back, fought Kevin Ku in the opening match, didn't see a second of it. Here it was great. After that, his brother had a match and that's where I walked in and I caught Logan Stunt.
01:10:39
Speaker
Did you think you were looking at Marco Stunt for a minute? Well, the first time I ever saw Logan Stunt was I was walking around New York City going to Janela's show and I said, Oh, there's Marco. And when he turned, I was like, Oh, that's not Marco. That's a guy who looks like Marco wearing a Marco shirt and having no idea that he has a brother that is either his height or slightly shorter looks very, very similar though. They could be a tag team, man.
01:11:07
Speaker
Well, he can't, it's up because Marco's already in a tag team with Cabana Man Dan. There they might be giants. But the main event of this thing, man, it was Brett Eisen versus JD Drake. I had never seen JD Drake before. He is like a... I described him as he looks like Chubby Revival.
01:11:34
Speaker
He looks like both members of the revival and one guy. Like, just a big guy wearing the same jacket. The one thing that this guy did that was starting to make me feel a little sick, he was chopping the absolute shit out of Brett Eisen.
01:11:52
Speaker
And at the end of this match, Brett Eisen, his chest was so fucking welted. Not to the point of PCO versus Walter, but a pretty good welt that every chop sounded like it sucked. And I knew for sure I didn't want that man to chop me. You hear that, Lowell? JD Drake scares me, Lowell. Do your work.
01:12:17
Speaker
No, I don't think I would do it. I think I would go ahead and just tell you I'm not taking that. That sucks. Just refuse. Allie Cat had a match. She had new gear. Looked great. She came out to Prince's I Would Die For You, which made me incredibly happy. And Kelly, one of our listeners, Garrett's wife,
01:12:36
Speaker
She bought me an alley cat shirt that night, so I do now have my alley cat shirt. You have a alley cat shirt. You're supposed to get another. Well, you know, things happen. I have the shirt now. Kelly might have, you know, bought it for me, but it still counts. I have the alley cat shirt. I'm still a fan. I heard that you had an interaction with her friend, Craig Mitchell.
01:12:57
Speaker
Yeah, our boy Craig came out and had a match and, you know, everybody's still booing Craig. There's a lot of that Craig hate going around. And I, since I had to Uber there, did have a few drinks there. And I'll be honest, I couldn't not cheer Craig. I love Craig now. You're a mark for Craig? I'm a Craig mark. That guy starts selling some shirts. I'm going to get a Craig shirt and a heartbeat. Just a shirt that just Craig right across the front. That's me.
01:13:23
Speaker
I love me some Craig Mitchell. And as Craig was leaving, we ran into each other, gave me a hug. It felt nice. How am I supposed to hate a guy that gave me a hug on his way out? So you had a pretty good time at the Southern Underground Pro Show. It's a fun show. They've got another one coming up here in a month or two, Cabana Mandan and Marco versus Dom Garini and Kevin Ku, who have changed their name from sad comp to violence is forever. That's a much better name.
01:13:53
Speaker
That's way better than the Viking experience. When they announced their new name, I saw somebody be like, oh, and I saw Dom Garini turn to a guy in the front row and go, don't worry, I'm still sad. Overall, fun show is a lot of fun. I recommend checking those guys out. They're doing good shit over there. So keep just rolling with this. What is your take on the CM Punk news from over the weekend?
01:14:20
Speaker
I think it's fucking hilarious that people don't really seem to give a shit.
CM Punk's Surprise Appearance
01:14:41
Speaker
And he delivered a GTS while wearing a luchador mask to steal his opponent and steal wins. And then he just, he comes, he appears from a stairwell to get into the ring, do the GTS leaves to almost no reaction.
01:14:58
Speaker
No. Well, I'm assuming for that room of people, a random luchador just came out and helped the guy during the main event. It didn't mean anything. So this is what's funny about the internet. The internet is the only thing that provided context for this. In the moment, that was a nothing moment of what the fuck. Can you imagine us being in that room, being like, who's that skinny dude fucking hitting the GTS on this guy?
01:15:28
Speaker
And then only to find out later, Oh shit. No, I really just saw something special. I had no idea. Like the internet is the only thing that gave that moment context. They, they had, he cares because he comes to the ring wearing like a black hoodie with some, with some white lettering on it. But the only reason people were able to figure this out was there was a picture punk had taken earlier in the day with somebody and he's wearing the exact same hoodie that the luge door was.
01:15:56
Speaker
Yeah, and the same pants, the same shoes. Like he was wearing the same outfit and didn't wear that picture was taken. Wasn't it within the same building and there was like some other wrestling thing? Like, like when I say wrestling, I mean like amateur wrestling happening somewhere and he just like took a picture with a fan. Yeah. So, and I think he had made the like a passing comment after he'd quit WWE that if he came back, it would be some random indie event under a mask.
01:16:25
Speaker
And this is basically what that was. Is this the first time? Yeah, we don't know. I think he did a fun thing for a buddy. I don't want to read anything into CM Punk, but that would be funny if he's just like, all right, I got to go out there and throw one GTS so that I'm ready for double or nothing, baby. And he goes out there and throws kind of a shitty GTS. He's like, I got a little ring rust. Maybe I should throw a second one. I guess.
01:16:55
Speaker
I mean, regardless of how you want to, if you want to look into it or not look into it, the guy has sworn up and down that he's done with wrestling. And I know a lot of people have said that before. And not only that, but he's kind of shown that anytime somebody brings it up to him, he gets a little bit annoyed or disgusted by it.
01:17:16
Speaker
So it's momentous in that regard, and apparently he's not disgusted by the notion anymore. He just doesn't, he maybe just doesn't want to do it, but like he can if he's doing a favor. I mean, he's friends with the box, isn't he? Well, maybe they haven't called in a favor yet. Fuck, I don't know, man. Call out a favor right now, Derek. See if something happens.
01:17:42
Speaker
What happens if double or nothing CM Punk slides in the ring during the Jericho Omega match and he gives a GTS to Kenny Omega. And Jericho gets his bounce back win against Kenny and it also sets up Punk versus Kenny.
01:17:58
Speaker
Well, what's going to happen there is I'm going to be in a seat and my body is going to start doing something similar to an Otis Dozovic, where you're just going to see me start making sounds and just slapping a hot dog. God damn.
01:18:20
Speaker
Derek, we've gone long on this one. I think it's time to get the fuck out of here. Yeah, I think that's fair. We don't normally go an hour and 20, but fuck it. We did it today. We did it today. Didn't know what was going to happen.
Conclusion and Audience Engagement
01:18:30
Speaker
It happened, though. Hey, guys, go on the social media. Check us out at Wrestle Hangout on Facebook, at Wrestle Hangout on Twitter, at Predetermined Podcast on Instagram. If you want that,
01:18:41
Speaker
that New Japan spreadsheet that has been just treating me wonderful over the weekend. Shoot us an email at predeterminepodcast.gmail.com. I'll forward that spreadsheet on to you and you can have the most fun you've ever had just watching the best matches. Thanks for listening everybody.
01:19:28
Speaker
And if your friend is being venom on the internet, it's okay to call him out for it. Hit our goddamn music.