Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
The Rise of Tokenization & Real World Assets with Julian Kwan
28 Plays1 year ago
Julian was born and raised in Sydney Australia, and has founded 7 companies in Asia, including social media/technology, real estate investment & development, proptech and blockchain.
Currently he is co-founder and CEO of InvestaX and IX Swap.
InvestaX is the leading Licensed Tokenization Software-as-a-Service (SaaS) platform that enables the issuance, trading, and custody of Real World Asset Tokens (RWA)/ Security Token Offerings (STO).
IX Swap is the world's first automated market maker for RWA/STO, which also now has a launchpad for retail investors. $IXS is the native token for the IX Swap platform.
The Singapore based entrepreneur is recognized as a leader in the RWA/STO blockchain space and has been invited to speak at over 200+ conferences in the region.
He has a passion for constant learning by building better and alternative platforms and systems for the benefit of more not less, and being early at the forefront of change.
He also hosts the Infinity and Beyond, a podcast on RWA, STO, Tokenization,Crypto and all things web3.
Born in Sydney, Australia, and holding degrees in Real Estate Development/Construction Management from the University of New South Wales, Australia, as well as in Mandarin from Beijing Language and Cultural University, he is now the Chief Representative Officer (CRO) of InvestaX’s Licenses from the Monetary Authority of Singapore
Personal Linkedin profile
InvestaX Company Linkedin profile
IX Swap Company Website
InvestaX Twitter
IX Swap Twitter
IX Swap Telegram
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Julian Kwon
00:00:07
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to the utterly positive discussion from the Laughing Otter. Today, I'm super excited. We got a leader in Web3 joining us today. We got Julian Kwon from InvestX and IXSwap, who's the founder and CEO of those companies.
NFTs and Real-World Asset Tokenization
00:00:28
Speaker
And today I think we're going to have a really good conversation because we both agree that the world is moving very quickly.
00:00:38
Speaker
to where NFTs and tokenization is going to be linked into real world assets. So stay tuned, and you're going to find out a heck of a lot of where the Web3 world's heading. So Julian, welcome to the show. Hello, everyone. Thanks for having us. Excited to be here. Awesome. Now, you started your companies. How long have you been in the Web3 space?
Julian Kwon's Web3 Journey
00:01:06
Speaker
Well, I guess we'd call it a fight. Well, so in 2015, I'm originally from Sydney, but I was in Shanghai, Beijing for about 13 years doing a bunch of startups. But I moved to Singapore in about 2015, started one of the first real estate crowdfunding platforms.
00:01:24
Speaker
In 2017-18, when the ICO boom happened, we immediately thought, let's use this token structures to wrap real world assets, which used to be called security tokens. Now the crypto blockchain industry is calling it RWA, the real world asset tokens.
00:01:39
Speaker
So basically since 2017 and team and when it began so you could actually say that the RWA space began at the around 2017 18 when the ICO boom and then went bust and then a lot of people.
00:01:54
Speaker
were getting in trouble because they were selling these ICO coins that had securities features without having them as issued and traded and all the good things that are needed around securities issuance. We went on that mission in 2018, call it, and we wanted to build these infrastructure platforms that allowed issuing trading, custodying, automated market makers for real-world asset tokens.
00:02:19
Speaker
hard at work for sort of four or five years. And it's only now in the last three to six months, the industry's really coming, coming alive. Yeah, I think it's, um, it's a natural progression of where web three was inevitably going to go. Um, because we, the whole community needed to get away from these hollow projects, um, that were just linked to nothing, uh, other than just.
00:02:48
Speaker
buyer speculation and get rich quick schemes. What are some of the industries that you think are going to capitalize on this first?
Industries Adopting Tokenization
00:03:00
Speaker
When we started thinking about tokenization, we started thinking about all assets being tokenized, debt, equity, real estate shares, venture capital shares, startup shares, and now even in the publicly traded, public market assets like structured products and whatnot.
00:03:19
Speaker
We went asset agnostic, I should say, because we believe that the digitization, the tokenization of equity and debt would be the way that every kind of industry went. So what has happened in the last couple of years, you've started to see all types of industries and projects coming out of different industries being tokenized. So you've seen
00:03:45
Speaker
Commodity plays are the most recent one I saw. There's obviously gold. There's also an uranium one where we've seen, call it ESG thematic investments being tokenized. Carbon credits, we've seen real estate is always going to be a big one. Shares and startups, which obviously startups can be in any kind of industry. Now we're seeing structured products. We're seeing private credit and private debt.
00:04:13
Speaker
Because we're at a world where we're, let's call it early days, first time tokenizing these assets. Everyone's talking about it. It's like real world asset tokenization for real estate. Eventually, everything will be tokenized. We'll just go back to talking about real estate investments and startup investments. But for now, because it's such a kind of paradigm, it's such a huge shift from this whole world of issuing shares on paper and all of the
00:04:39
Speaker
the characteristics of that and the challenges and the problems with that system to now bringing it all across onto the rails and the infrastructure that is, as you said, like sort of Web3. So how we kind of explain the RWA narrative to people. I mean, there's a lot of different ways to explain it, but one of them is it's essentially
00:05:04
Speaker
RWA is essentially Web 2.5, and why is it 2.5?
Understanding 'Web 2.5'
00:05:08
Speaker
Because it's all of the assets and meant to be licensing and regulations and everything around securities from Web 2, the Web 2 world, the TradFi world, the traditional device,
00:05:20
Speaker
But because you're issuing on, or you're meant to be issuing on public blockchain, some people use private, which doesn't make sense. But anyway, if you're issuing on public protocols, then you're using the technology of Web3. So you have Web2 assets being issued on Web3 technology, which is why sometimes, like I say, so you think about that as like a WebPoint 2.5, which brings both of these worlds together.
00:05:42
Speaker
So now you're seeing all kinds of stuff. We're looking for the most interesting assets. And this is what tokenization is going to be. So we're looking at tokenizing the first K content, like K-pop and IP rights and music rights and movie rights to Korean content. Again, these are like asset classes that for most people have never heard of or never even
00:06:09
Speaker
had any access whatsoever that they were typically requiring a lot of money.
Tokenization's Impact on Real Estate and Venture Capital
00:06:15
Speaker
They were highly specialized. They were private deals. They were on paper. No one knew about them. So what's exciting about now these types of assets coming out, not only do you have traditional assets like real estate, you're now starting to see really alternative assets that are starting to come down the pipeline.
00:06:33
Speaker
And then the next evolution is actually better ways of even issuing those assets so when you think about tokenization and as a smart contract and blockchains using tokens as a investment vehicle as a structure for holding equity or debt in say a building or in a startup.
00:06:53
Speaker
You're now going to have, and we've started working on some of these new improved investment vehicles. So what does that mean? It's like you could tokenize a real estate fund and just go one for one in terms of everything you would get if you invested on paper, you would get in a token in terms of your rights and how the asset acted. So you might invest seven years into a real estate fund and wait seven years and then try and get whatever return back.
00:07:19
Speaker
Now, you can see tokenized real estate funds. They might be more open-ended, and that would be very helpful because a lot of seven-year real estate funds at the end of their lifecycle are forced to sell because it's seven years, and a lot of them sell in a downturn, and everyone loses money.
00:07:36
Speaker
So we call it Real Estate 2.0, Venture Capital 2.0. We've tokenized the employee stock options of our own company so our team can trade and sell, which has never been really possible before, at least in that dynamic. So yeah, there's lots of things to unpack, but we're just kind of scratching the surface and that's why the RWA narrative is going to be massive because it brings both the crypto, it brings TradFi and DeFi worlds together.
Community Investments via Web3
00:08:08
Speaker
It's really the part of Web3 that makes me the most excited. There's two parts of Web3 that I get super excited about. One is the hundreds of millions of people who believe that the world should be fairer, kinder, cleaner, safer for all, and just disrupting traditional ways of thinking. And the second one is all around this real world asset class
00:08:36
Speaker
Um, especially where, where I see there's huge opportunity. Um, if it's embraced properly is it has, and it's, it's already proving out, um, by doing what you're doing, it fills the void of the, the pre-seed funding and angel funding where.
00:09:02
Speaker
where and startup capital where VCs, banks, angels have long ago vacated that initial startup capital through the use of this technology and what you guys are doing and similar of being able to consolidate multiple investors at small amounts and relatively low risk
00:09:32
Speaker
to be able to give startups that initial capital that it's just not available anymore through traditional VCs and banks and angels. So I think what you're doing is spot on because I envision this as when you talk about an asset class of just shares in a company, that can be as broad as everything from investing
00:10:01
Speaker
in a local restaurant to a fashion brand, to clean energy tech to a guitar player. It really doesn't matter. And it gives people that initial capital to start. So I think it's brilliant where this is heading. It should be super exciting for everyone. And I just wish the media would pick up on that side of it rather than the handful of
00:10:31
Speaker
bad apples. Yeah, I think ultimately there's a few interesting parts about that. I think one is that, well, just for those in the actual DeFi space, I mean, the irony right now is that the reason why real world assets is taking off, it's because both sides.
Real-World Asset Tokens: TradFi Meets DeFi
00:10:53
Speaker
So one side is traditional finance, which is
00:10:55
Speaker
The Black Rocks and Wall Street getting involved, tokenizing all kinds of assets, saving money, creating efficiencies, and then they're not even scratching. They're just scratching the surface of all the value of tokenization, but they're in. They're all in. They can see that they can make a lot more money out of doing this.
00:11:13
Speaker
And then on the DeFi side, there was a destruction of decentralized finance met down up until like a month ago, and there was no yield. So there's hundreds of billions of dollars of stablecoins earning no interest. So people started tokenizing treasury bills and yield products that the stablecoin holders, who were essentially the crypto guys,
00:11:34
Speaker
Could go in and out and yield and then back into crypto when they felt like it so so actually the first so then defy So do I call it the defy the crypto industry they started getting bullish on and they renamed security tokens real-world asset token so they basically renamed it sto and then they said let's call it our WA so
00:11:54
Speaker
And so then you now had all the crypto guys saying, this is a great use case. This is a real use case. And hang on, what else is there? What other assets are there? And of course, there's a million different other assets and asset classes. So that's really interesting. I think the second part is that we've been saying this for years.
00:12:11
Speaker
that the RWA, the STOs, some markets still call them security tokens, by the way, so Korea, Philippines, STO. Actually, some of the guys who've been in it longest, like us in Europe, they're still using digital securities. We've had five or six different names, tokenized securities, digital securities, STOs, now they're RWA. It's all the same stuff. But the point is that
00:12:31
Speaker
We've been saying for years, the asset-backed tokens, real-world asset tokens will help and save, I wouldn't say saves, probably the wrong word, will help the crypto space, will help ICOs, will help NFTs, especially people who are saying, why would you say that? I'm like, well, what's one of the main problems with ICOs? It's the fact that
00:12:53
Speaker
A lot of regulators think that they're actually securities and they've been sold like securities. They look and feel like securities. There's maybe expectations of profits. Maybe you share an XYZ dividend. So if you actually had an STO, you had a real world asset token, you wish you'd do to start. Let's say you and I start a protocol tomorrow.
00:13:12
Speaker
Well, the first thing we do is we raise some money, we issue an RWA and we raise a couple of million dollars in equity. And then we go launch an ICO because it's very obvious the ICO is a utility token, if it is, if it's completely different from the asset token and you can actually see that. So that's something I think is going to happen over time. And I think now, especially in Web 3 in terms of any blockchain related companies, I think the new paradigm will shift.
00:13:42
Speaker
pre-blockchain. Most startups, they raise equity, pretty plain vanilla. They do it on pieces of paper. Investors are either C, Series A, Series B. Everyone crosses their fingers and hopes for an exit in 10 years. That's generally how the system worked. When blockchain come along, especially with protocols, because of the concept of tokens,
00:14:05
Speaker
A lot of the founders went, all right, well, we can do these token sales. And let's just assume a token I'm talking about right now, it truly is utility token. It is not equity for every different reason. We'll just keep the discussion simple.
00:14:19
Speaker
We can raise a lot of money for our project and then we're going to issue these tokens and there were two major benefits. One is people were dying to throw money at you because they all wanted to pump and dump these tokens, but it also meant you didn't sell a single dollar of equity. So that's a reality, which is one of the most incredible parts which no one really talks about publicly.
00:14:39
Speaker
So you had basically free equity because you raised all this money with the currency you created out of thin air. You sold no equity. And the narrative then went, if you own a token in this protocol community, whatever it was, that's where all the value is.
00:14:54
Speaker
And so if you own it, you earn value from participating in the network either as a client, as a customer, as whatever the protocol did or whatever the product did. That was completely false narrative. That was just half the value or some percentage of the value.
00:15:09
Speaker
And you know that that as in the token is only ever going to be a percentage of the value. And you know, that was true because all the big VCs are piling in onto the equity cap tables of these startups. You know, why did, I can just remember one that stuck in my mind a couple of years ago. It was like, Anderson Horowitz puts $350 million into Solana.
00:15:26
Speaker
And it was like, well, why would they do that? The tokens launched, it's a billion dollar protocol. Did they buy 300 million dollars worth of tokens? No, they bought equity in the company that's behind it. So the point that I'm bringing up is that there's equity and there's, so there's STO, there's securities and there's utility tokens and there's security tokens and there's utility tokens. And then if you see this world now, if you're a founder and you're listening, you're like, okay,
00:15:55
Speaker
So now through platforms like Arsenic, Swapp, and Vestex, you can tokenize your equity fast, cheap, same rails.
Future of Startup Fundraising through Tokenization
00:16:04
Speaker
Everyone can access it just like they could with crypto. Okay, so here's the proposition. Do you want one or two venture capitalists on your equity table and then, you know, a million people buying your tokens and pumping and dumping on you and everything? Or do you want maybe the same venture capital on your equity table
00:16:24
Speaker
It's good to have a sophisticated investor there. Let's assume all blockchain VCs are sophisticated, which they're not, but you have a VC leading the round, determining the terms. Why not then sell, instead of a million dollars to the VC, why don't you sell $250,000 of STOs? And why don't you sell 750,000 STOs to your community? And why don't you, you could break them down into $1 shares. So do you want to have
00:16:49
Speaker
One owner of your cap table, or do you want to have 750,000 in one owners? Because that's what's now possible. And then not only that, if the equity holders of the platform, then they can also get access to the early stages of the ICO, the crypto, and they're holding on both sides, much less incentive for them just to dump tokens on you because it hurts the project, and you now have real ownership.
00:17:10
Speaker
like real ownership from the community into the platform and not this what I call fake news that it's just all about the token. Anyway, so that was a lot to digest, but the point is that that's going to be the new paradigm for raising capital because you want ultimately as a startup, you want investors that are strategic and actually helping you build the business. Well, having hundreds of thousands of community users as owners of your platform,
00:17:36
Speaker
they're going to help you build the business much better than one VC ever would. That's what is now, I think, the future of startup fundraising. You're preaching to the choir. I think, personally, it's definitely the direction Laughing Otter's heading. We'll be doing much of what we're talking about in the coming months. That's because I would rather have 10,000 dedicated people
00:18:06
Speaker
to the project who are emotionally attached can be an excellent source of market research as the first point of contact for any strategic decision and not feel the pressure of traditional VCs. The horror stories of
00:18:34
Speaker
The effect of VCs on companies is widespread. I worked for a company that was bought by a VC. It went from the best company I ever worked for to the worst in about a month and a half because just the attitude and goals just completely shifted.
00:19:05
Speaker
The elephant in the room that we're not talking about is at the early stage of any project, the idea that a VC is going to give you a million dollars, that's as scarce to use an Aussie term as hen's teeth. They don't exist. It's a myth that VCs get in early pre-revenue, that sort of thing.
00:19:29
Speaker
Um, there's less of a chance in Australia. Oh, yeah. Silicon Valley, there's a lot more chance, but yeah, again, most people are writing very small checks at that stage as well. So there's still a, whereas I like, I'm completely convinced that if you have, uh, well, I see it all that every day is that if you have a viable business with, uh, with an exciting proposition.
00:19:59
Speaker
there are literally hundreds of millions of people in this space that are willing to throw $100, $500, $1,000 into a project that they believe in and are passionate about. And I just think it's, not I think, I know, it's easier to rally 10,000 people to throw in a few hundred dollars than it is to get that equivalent out of a VC.
00:20:30
Speaker
So yeah, I love what you're doing. And I think it's the most exciting part about Web3 outside in conjunction with that a lot of the projects that I'm engaged with have real world impact on a social standpoint. So yeah, it's great what you're doing. Yeah, I appreciate that.
00:20:57
Speaker
Yeah, so what's the next six months got in store for you?
Challenges and Changes in Web3
00:21:02
Speaker
That's a big question. Maybe an easier question, but probably equally as hard.
00:21:13
Speaker
What's the next six minutes got in store for you? This is my seventh startup and it's the wildest space by a mile, a country mile, even though I did stuff in China back in the day when that was wild.
00:21:28
Speaker
The speed of this is insane and the fact that we're talking about technology that everyone is using and touching and can use and can touch. There's cryptocurrencies and there's new assets being developed all the time. We've even got evolutions of namings and the whole world's getting digitized. With all that as a quick backdrop,
00:21:56
Speaker
We have a strategy call every two weeks in our company. That's how much stuff's going on. That sounds a bit insane, but that's kind of what's needed because new payment rails, new payment systems, and regulation changing all over the world. NFTs, DAOs, security tokens, stablecoins, cryptocurrency. It's like kind of drinking from the fire hose to try to keep a pulse on what's going on.
00:22:25
Speaker
I, I, for us we are trying to constantly build product that is aligned with, you know, the market requirements, whilst also trying to look ahead. If you think about, if you think about the last couple of years. One thing I used to say is well years ago was like, we don't.
00:22:45
Speaker
We're working in a space where we're creating new things every day and the best things are yet to come and that'll probably remain true forever. And what does that mean exactly? Like if you go back to 2017 or 16, if you will, there wasn't, I'm just going to talk generally, there wasn't really a concept of the ICO, right? The concept of launching your own cryptocurrency didn't exist. Then people started doing it and then it went crazy, right?
00:23:14
Speaker
At one point, the day before, again, things never really happened in one day, but the day before NFTs, there was no NFTs. Then we built this whole, the day before DAOs, there were no DAOs, the day before stablecoins, there were no, you know, the day before some of these RWA products, the day before tokenized treasury bills, there were no tokenized treasury bills.
00:23:33
Speaker
So I guess the point is that it's hard to forecast too far out, but the real world asset space is definitely much more of a regulated space. So as much as you want to sprint ahead, you are having to work in and with and amongst your own licenses and compliances and other people and products out there, as well as this whole market that is
00:24:01
Speaker
Um, excited, but also very
Regulatory Challenges and Market Excitement about RWAs
00:24:03
Speaker
confused. There's a lot of people that are very confused because there's a lot going on. And even if you're in the space 24 hours a day, it's hard to keep a pulse on it. So I try to read up, follow, um, we, we have our own token. It's the excess token. It's, it's, it's part of the IX swap platform, which is positioned as the uni swap for real world asset token. So we, we, we have our own cryptocurrency that we look at and try to manage.
00:24:31
Speaker
and where that's going and marketing and exchange listings and all that. We have IXWAP, which is also just launched the first, we call it the IXS, it's called the RWA Accelerator. So we're now helping as many of these new RWA projects get off the ground, leveraging our tech and licenses so they can launch legally and compliant and they can do it today. They don't have to spend years getting licenses, building their own technology and all these things they don't need. So that's definitely high on the agenda. We've just been on a,
00:24:59
Speaker
to it at Korea, which is absolutely super bullish and exploding in this space, trying to work out the first tokenized K-pop and K-content, which I mentioned before. And then we run our platform in Singapore, which is constantly getting bombarded now for sort of inbound inquiries, but we're just trying to work with pick and choose good groups to work with and
00:25:22
Speaker
continue moving forward whilst now we finally have Bitcoin back on the bull market, which is amazing after a couple of super painful years in the crypto space, because whatever you say about real world asset tokens, Bitcoin still drives, has driven maybe less and less as time goes on, but still is super important in terms of what everyone thinks about the whole blockchain space, which is, it's a bit silly, but that's the reality.
00:25:51
Speaker
So Bitcoin's now on the pump, which means that all these massive trad, traditional finance, financial institutions are coming into the space and everyone's trying to, no one wants to be second, everyone wants to be first. So now that there's a lot of tokenized assets out there, there's just like this stampede coming into the space.
00:26:10
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, there's a lot going on. I don't, I try to just work on a daily basis with sort of one or two weeks, you know, out in, you know, thinking out in front, but, uh, yeah, you know, crypto is now alive. So I think it's going to be an amazing, um, you know, next period, whatever that, however long that goes for. Yeah, I agree. And it's, it's, I've been calling it for about a year and a half that the start of 2024 is going to be when
00:26:40
Speaker
you want to have all your ducks aligned and, um, and, and your surfboard pointed in the right direction. Cause that's when the wave's going to hit and it's starting to feel, feel like my prediction is, is just about right. Um, another, another thing about this space that I've like in my whole career, I've never experienced how quickly things change in just one phone
Collaboration and Innovation in Web3
00:27:09
Speaker
call.
00:27:09
Speaker
because everybody in Web3 is learning on the fly, but it's also very open to collaborations, to sharing ideas, to working together. And so, you know, you and I got introduced and I loved what you're doing. So let's get on my podcast. Let's talk about it. We're going to look into using your platform to launch what we're doing. But that all happened
00:27:39
Speaker
just really started with a message on LinkedIn and where, but it's, it's because the web three community is open to those, right? The other industries I've worked in, people ignore LinkedIn messages. They, they, they're guarded, they're, uh, risk adverse. They don't, they want, they don't want to take chances where web three is the antithesis of that. Um, I spoke with a group in,
00:28:10
Speaker
LA a week and a half ago, who's got an amazing project going around some real world, like some shoes that they've custom designed that they'll be selling attached to an NFT. And it's all around movement for mental health. And there's all these great things tied in. And we went from zero to 60.
00:28:39
Speaker
in a matter of like a few sentences, we went, yes, we got to work together. That just never happens outside of, like it never happened in my career outside of web three. And when you're an entrepreneur like yourself and myself, that's the world I want to live in. Somebody said once when I was doing my MBA, and this is back in the dot com boom,
00:29:09
Speaker
And our professor said, this is a really, you know, a fast moving world and it's really a crazy space to be in and time's moving quickly. And there was a vote taken to the, the class, like, you know, who's excited about it? And 95% of people said that they were scared. And there was, there was 5%, which I was, that was like, yeah, bring it on. Like to me.
00:29:37
Speaker
scary isn't what's happening now because you can adjust, you can maneuver, you got instant information. Scary to me would be back three, 400 years and you've invested in a ship and you set it off from the UK with the hope that in three years times it'll return from Hong Kong with something in like with some money or something in the hole. That's scary. I love the fast movement and
00:30:06
Speaker
being armed with that instant information and, and, and in web three, just being surrounded by people who embrace that as well. It's, it's really exciting. Yep. No, I agree. Um, unfortunately I'm in Australia who, um, just for a lot, it's all the reasons why it's great to live here. It's.
00:30:33
Speaker
It's not the hub of Web3, that's for sure, because Australia likes to, I liken it that life is just too good here. There's no reason to take chances. There's no reason to be aggressive. Yeah, that's right. It's been notoriously slow with tech and whatnot. Now it's changing with this space. Yeah, a little bit.
00:31:04
Speaker
But I see it in all, like, I'm Canadian, Canada's a bit ahead, but a lot of countries are, you know, asleep at the wheel where countries like Indonesia, Portugal, Nigeria, Korea, like Estonia, these are just some examples of the pump in my head where they're embracing Web3 and they are full steam ahead developing
00:31:31
Speaker
infrastructure and investing in ecosystems and investing in startups. It's a great place to be. Yes, agreed.
Contact Information and Closing Remarks
00:31:44
Speaker
On that note, I think we've had a really great conversation here. Obviously, well voiced in this space and doing a lot of great stuff that I completely agree with. It's going to be exciting to see
00:31:59
Speaker
where your companies are headed and what you're going to be up to. Maybe you can let everyone know how to find you if they want to get in touch, if they want to learn more. Where can they find you?
00:32:13
Speaker
Sure. We'll post it in the notes, the platforms, investorx.io and ixswap.io and encourage everyone to register. There's newsletters. If you want to actually do the investments, which I highly recommend, we've
00:32:29
Speaker
No one really learns anything unless they feel they've got skin in the game and there's a point or a risk to not getting it right. A lot of these STO RWAs now are available for one USDT, one USDC, so there's no excuses.
00:32:47
Speaker
So get your hands dirty on our platforms and other hardware platforms and start to learn and get experience. This is a journey that'll go on forever. You've been on it for a long time. I'm now five, six years every single day. It's getting more interesting because it's getting more sophisticated.
00:33:04
Speaker
I'm also, we also have, yeah, I think that's probably the best way to do that. I'm on Twitter. Julian Tuquon will give you the notes as well. I'm not massive on Twitter. Actually, it's probably better if people also in business space. I'm on LinkedIn, where I spend most of my time there. I'm not on any other platforms. So the two websites, Twitter and LinkedIn, and I think Nico can probably sort you out with those links.
00:33:29
Speaker
and it's great to share what we had today and great to find more people around the world super bullish on RWA and you're happy to jump on a call again once this industry continues to grow and also if we can see if we can help you with our platform. So thanks again for having us. Yeah, it's been a real pleasure and absolutely this isn't our last conversation. I assure you that. To everyone else, make sure you check out laughingauter.com for lots of positive content, lots of
00:33:59
Speaker
positive things happen. We've got a super cool event coming up in London in a couple months time, which is going to get over 130 million views. Um, so that's super exciting. Um, we got, uh, yeah, just lots of stuff going on. So it's laughing otter.com. You can also find the laughing otter on Instagram, Twitter, discord, Facebook, all the usual channels. And if you want to find me.
00:34:26
Speaker
I'm Jeff Bodensberger, probably the only one on LinkedIn. And just like Julian, I spend a lot of time there. So thanks to everyone for listening and thanks again, Julian. And remember, we all deserve to be having a lot more fun. Yeah. Okay. Cheers. Thanks a lot, Jeff.