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Episode 25: Lucas Le Slo (Spooky Express)
299 Plays1 month ago
In this special episode, hosts Alan and Syrenne are joined by Lucas Le Slo, a puzzle designer on the newly announced Spooky Express. Topics include the development of Spooky Express and its inception, the project's goals, as well as Lucas' other work on puzzle games such as Lab Rat.
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Guest
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to the Drakknack and Friends official podcast, where we peel back the curtain on puzzle games and the people who make them. I'm Seren, the producer at Drakknack and Friends, and I'm joined as always by Alan Hazelden, the head Drakknack at Drakknack and Friends.
00:00:36
Speaker
Hey there. Today, we're joined by Lucas Laslo, who you may know from his work on the newly announced Spooky Express, among other games. How are you doing today? Very well, thank you.
00:00:49
Speaker
Awesome. So can you go ahead and introduce yourself and give listeners a little bit of your background? ah Yes, I'm Lucas and I've been making games full-time as a freelancer and designer for four years, more or less.
00:01:05
Speaker
But I've been working and interested in video games maybe for nine years already.
Lucas's Journey into Puzzle Design
00:01:11
Speaker
and After finishing my maths degree, I played The Witness, and I was instantly hooked to universe and started working on um games on my own just to get a feel of something more creative and somehow related to maths.
00:01:27
Speaker
And I naturally gravitated to all the puzzle design work, to the Thinkie puzzle disk work, to puzzle script, and all the different tools that were available for me to see what puzzles really could be.
00:01:41
Speaker
And i I don't know, i ended up making puzzles as a full-time thing, which is great. i also work on my own games when I'm not working on other people's games, which are much more tiny and much less production value games.
00:01:57
Speaker
But they are usually puzzles. ah But I'm at the moment trying to broaden a bit the the space I'm working on. And I don't I'm looking forward for whatever comes next.
00:02:08
Speaker
Awesome. So, Alan, what led you to want to work with Lucas?
Collaboration Between Alan and Lucas
00:02:14
Speaker
and that's That's easy. Lucas is great. you You have made a very large number of puzzle games.
00:02:21
Speaker
And I would say that universally, they all have extremely strong puzzle design in them. And yeah, I've known you for a while. And you've kind of had a bit of a career, guess, a small career of like working on other people's games very successfully as well.
00:02:37
Speaker
ah Yeah, um I see how i I did a very abstract background of of my own. So ah yeah, I work in Labrad, I've translated all the riddles in Creepmaster.
00:02:52
Speaker
I worked also in Billy Bam Bam. Those are probably the biggest games I've worked on. and um And I've worked on a lot of individual, on my own, free puzzle games that are usually really difficult. So I'm always really happy to hear how people are enjoying to work with me, because I usually am on the most difficult end of the spectrum for puzzle games.
00:03:16
Speaker
Yeah, and I guess we should just spell it out. like So the way we've been doing it with Spooky Express is I have been doing the overall mechanical design and figuring out like what the what the systems we want in the game.
Lucas's Puzzle Design Philosophy
00:03:29
Speaker
But Lucas has really been doing a lot of the work on the actual puzzles. These days, I am juggling too many things to make as many puzzles as I would like. So yeah, working with another puzzle designer felt...
00:03:43
Speaker
kind of necessary in order to make this game on the timeline that we want to make it on while doing everything else we're doing? Yeah, but even there, I discovered after working on all these puzzle games, whenever I'm working for others, usually the geese is the same. The mechanics are already mainly there and I'm just about making puzzles, just playing around with all the rules.
00:04:06
Speaker
And I found really satisfying just exploring that width and depth of the rules instead of having to come up with the rules themselves for a given game, ah which is ah something that i I enjoy. But there's something really satisfying of just completing the whole package and and seeing that you have really search for everything that was available given a set of rules.
00:04:30
Speaker
And yeah, but at the same time, I want to say that Alan has also tackled for Spooky Express some level design. And it is really interesting how...
00:04:41
Speaker
how given the same rules, their approach are completely different. And even when I might feel I have already explored a huge part of the space, it it is not like that because there's a lot of expression when designing puzzles.
00:04:55
Speaker
But I think it's satisfying. Yeah.
The Appeal of Spooky Express
00:04:59
Speaker
Alan, because ah this is the first time we're able to talk publicly about Spooky Express on the record, what made you want to go back to this?
00:05:11
Speaker
That's a great question. And I'm not even really sure. I just know that um this concept got stuck in my mind. um And I would just keep coming back to it every every now and then and go like, no, that's still a good idea. And then I put it on back burner again. And then I come back to it. Yeah, that's still a good idea. And I put it back on back burner. this happened like two or three times over the last few years. Like that escalated to full discussion internally.
00:05:42
Speaker
um ah So like on the one hand, it's purely a thematic thing on on the level of, well, Cosmic Express was a great game and I could see how you could make a similarly great game just with a slight different theme of cute monsters instead of cute aliens.
00:06:02
Speaker
um But I i think the the point at which it turned into an actual game that I was actively excited on making rather than just the idea of like, well, it would have been nice to have made that game past tense.
00:06:16
Speaker
um The moment that kind of shifted was when I started thinking about like, okay, what are the mechanically interesting things that i want to do in that space? um And I kind of feel like we should just ah we should go see yeah i I'm check with Lucas. So, Lucas, I think that if we talk about the mechanics we have planned for this game, that will not actually be that spoilery for the people who are excited about this game. Do you do you feel like that's true?
00:06:51
Speaker
um I think so. I'm not sure because I think there will be two groups of of people, the people that play Cosmic Express and the people that haven't played.
00:07:03
Speaker
so But I guess it won't be spoiler-y. We should limit the mechanic discussion to the front half of the game. um Sure. Yeah. Like we we won't spoil everything, but I, I think there's ah there's a few things that are going to come like in the mid game that need like a few level packs of like buildup to like prep players.
00:07:27
Speaker
And so won't be part of the demo that we will be releasing very soon. That is fine. Don't mention anything planned for the back half of the game. Sure.
00:07:38
Speaker
And if you want to be pure, pure spoiler free, like skip ahead some number of minutes. um But I think, yeah, I think like I'm the kind of person where the stuff that was going to get me excited is like stuff that is like mechanical and I'd rather talk specifics than talk in generalities.
Exploring Spooky Express Mechanics
00:07:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:55
Speaker
yeahp um Like, yeah, we've got monsters are scary. If there's a human on the train and the a monster wants to get onto the train, the the monster can scare the human off onto a neighboring platform.
00:08:07
Speaker
um And then, oh what happens if a vampire is standing next to a human? um Oh, well, maybe that vampire will turn the human into a vampire. Now you have more vampires. And so maybe that's how you satisfy, like maybe, yeah, you you need to shuffle these people around, not just by picking them up with the train, but also by scaring them around the level.
00:08:32
Speaker
And that's something which like Cosmic Express didn't explore at all. And when I started thinking about those ideas, it was like, oh, there's there's something interesting here. Yeah, I think that's exactly what it is really exciting exciting for me as well in this space and the ability of...
00:08:50
Speaker
of creating these temporary platforms for any ah given passenger at any given time. So you you get this more dynamic level instead of having plotted out the full level as it is, as coming to express that have a feeling of more paper puzzle somehow, while this has these timing elements where your position can really change the level layout somehow, which is really interesting. and Yeah.
00:09:20
Speaker
And somebody might be listening to this and thinking, oh, but Alan, Cosmic Express was really, really hard. And this sounds like it would take those mechanics and just add even more hard complications on it. And...
00:09:36
Speaker
and That's a fair concern, but don't worry. This game is going to be both deeper than Cosmic Express, but also more approachable. That's right. where're We're upping our game. It's going to be going to be better on both axes and I mean, working with Lucas has just been really, really useful for helping focus on that approachability. Like I can send something to Lucas and he can say, oh no, this needs to be more approachable. Or Lucas can send something to me. I can say, no, that needs to be more approachable.
00:10:06
Speaker
It's easier to like have that as a primary goal when there's multiple people working on that design side rather than if it was just me working in a cave and occasionally popping out to playtest.
00:10:19
Speaker
Hmm. It is usually you that just say that things need to be more approachable. I'm more on the difficult side of the of the puzzle. side i don't find things as approachable as you do. i think you have much more experience in that.
00:10:33
Speaker
I'm learning a lot in that sense, but I definitely can agree that this is going to be much more approachable than Cosmic Express. And that's something that we really, like, as a team, like, Dracnex started to focus on with A Monster's Expedition.
00:10:50
Speaker
And then all kind of all subsequent releases, maybe Bonfire Peaks notwithstanding, focused on that sort of core approachability for the critical path.
Deep Dive into Spooky Express Puzzles
00:11:03
Speaker
So talk about... about What really excites you, Lucas, about the Spooky Express mechanics? Yeah, I think what I like, especially about Cosmic Express, is the amount of rules that you get to learn while playing.
00:11:24
Speaker
It's not just about finding interesting geometries to solve the levels, but really understanding the possibilities of these shuffling around the passengers and these transformations and these...
00:11:39
Speaker
a relations between the different monsters that I think give a lot of depth. i And still we're still in deeply designing levels, and I see a list of things that I haven't yet started to work on, I'm excited about that.
00:12:00
Speaker
Awesome. And before we jump to other games that you've worked on, Is there anything that you want to tease or tell players to look out for in the upcoming demo or anything along those lines?
00:12:19
Speaker
I think i want to tease that there won't be that many mechanics on the demo per se, but I think and people will be really surprised by the amount of depth that the daughter already east there is there.
00:12:35
Speaker
I think there's a lot of expressivity in the puzzles, and I look forward to people to check the demo. Yeah, I think the um puzzle quality is much higher even in the very early levels here than it was in Cosmic Express. i I think Cosmic Express had very difficult levels and they were good in their own way.
00:12:58
Speaker
But I think if you're a puzzle connoisseur, you'll find a lot to like in Spooky Express that maybe you wouldn't get as frequently in Cosmic Express. As someone who struggled with Cosmic Express, ah firmly agree.
00:13:14
Speaker
So jumping topics for a bit... ah Lucas, we had Gwen Freon a couple weeks ago to talk about LabRat.
00:13:26
Speaker
I would love to hear ah your perspective on that game's development. It's been a ride. and i ah really It's been really weird for me seeing and the whole history in Labrad because I said that I've been only working full time for four years and I actually started working with Labrad. So it's this moment of full circle that...
00:13:51
Speaker
ah Like, somehow I can start feeling like a game developer right now, now that the first game I started working on has finally released. And it's been really, really pleasing to see
Reflections on LabRat and Personal Growth
00:14:07
Speaker
how how early I started making those puzzles and how Gwen has pushed the production values of the game so high. ah It's been really amazing.
00:14:18
Speaker
I've actually worked a lot at the start of of these four years. And then after that, there were of months but on and off that the ie went back. So there was also this very interesting and kind of spiral when I was facing my own work from a year ago and I disliked most of it and i see how I learn.
00:14:41
Speaker
And now that the game has released, I'm pleased. I have 90% of the game, but I also have my own critiques at my own decisions I made, don't know, maybe one one year ago the last time iterated on levels.
00:14:56
Speaker
um So it's been, I don't know how usual is this in long-term projects, but it's been really interesting for me to see this perspective.
00:15:07
Speaker
And, um yeah, i mean, I'd love to dig into, like, the very earliest versions of that game. Like, there's a core mechanic that's like a through line throughout it.
00:15:19
Speaker
Yeah. how How did you come up with that core gameplay concept that gets so many twists on it? So all this happened, all this collaboration with Gwen started a bit out of the blue blue during COVID.
00:15:32
Speaker
She wanted to do some kind of really small game about COVID and she asked for some puzzle script that maybe someone had and just there im um' and she could use to make this small game.
00:15:47
Speaker
And I just make a really small puzzle at the moment for with passelscript is is running useful to for base Puzzle read-based puzzles. And it was about just a managing a a shopping cart and pushing other ill passengers and getting infection on different sides of the cart so you could only interact with it from different sides.
00:16:12
Speaker
It was really, really small. That was the main concept. There were people that could infect you from the four sides or just creating a kind of a barrier of of infection that you you would protect yourself with the car.
00:16:27
Speaker
And that is actually the main ah mechanics of Labrad. Then it's just a matter of seeing how the initial theme wasn't as good as we thought it could be, and just riffing on that to find a different theme. And and you can see the power of a theme for being a game.
00:16:45
Speaker
And after that, If you see that isolated, you can see how it's not that complex per se, but it's at the same time bland enough that you can add a lot of other elements to refund it.
00:17:01
Speaker
And yeah, I don't know how much we want to get into like some of the mid or late game mechanics, but like, was there any, any twists on the mechanics for LabRap that you particularly enjoyed div designing puzzles for?
00:17:13
Speaker
Yeah, I think, um, uh, I'm not sure about Gwen's position right now in the game, but I think I would agree on, um, on the noir section we being one of our favorites.
00:17:28
Speaker
So you get this section, yeah so you have this main block that can be ah charged electrically with two different colors that you can actually combine, so it's three different colors.
00:17:38
Speaker
And this this this section, when you suddenly see everything black and white. so ah you kind of have have to decipher, kind of deduce which color is which side, which laser is which color, and and you you get to interact with it with the game in a completely different way. that and The first time i got around that idea, it felt like not that interesting to me, but as soon as I started scribbling on my notebook,
00:18:12
Speaker
and starting trying to find levels. I had lot of fun. Al, did you have any other LabRat questions? um No, i i don't think so. Lucas, was there anything else LabRat you wanted to chat about?
00:18:26
Speaker
I wasn't sure about what to expect of people's response to the game. I felt like ah usually yeah individually on my own, I think like humor and puzzles are on like completely different worlds.
00:18:41
Speaker
And it's been amazing to see how not only I've enjoyed the game, but everyone seems to agree that is working really, really well. And I don't know, I'm looking forward for more fun and funny puzzle games right now.
00:18:57
Speaker
Lucas, you're so smart. like
00:19:02
Speaker
but Thank you. I do what I can. ah No, it's it's it's great to see the game going down really well.
Challenges in Localizing Cryptmaster
00:19:11
Speaker
So talk to me about Cryptmaster.
00:19:16
Speaker
Cryptmaster has been a really weird experience in in terms of the puzzle design I usually do, because this is a language-based game.
00:19:26
Speaker
And this has been more kind of a translation for the most of them. so So you have this game where where any type of interaction is at least with typing, combat is typing, and something with those is typing.
00:19:41
Speaker
So you have at least a whole half of the game where you are playing, not sure how it's saying in English, that but you have you get some some gaps and some letters and you have to guess the word.
00:19:53
Speaker
and And when you guess the word, you have these abilities and you interact with, ah ah you combat with with those abilities. And at the same time, you you find lot of conversation with NPCs and a lot of reloads that are basically ah purely based on on language and puns and play of words and just silly silly stuff, but that it is really, really good.
00:20:17
Speaker
So I got to translate all the gameplay part. There's all these frequency analyzing of letters, the length of words, the complexity, the semantic complexity of certain things, and then just reloads. Whenever they were based on language, I just couldn't translate. So I got to come on on my own.
00:20:39
Speaker
And I really love language. I really love to play on words. im I constantly, when I'm speaking, I'm trying to to say silly stuff that a very few percent of the population find funny, but I'm im all about that.
00:20:55
Speaker
Especially in Spanish, in English is obviously much more difficult for me. but and So I got these this months of work of doing something i really love, but at the same time, ah almost now very few people have played the game in Spanish. So it is a work that I don't think I can do in any other type of scenario.
00:21:22
Speaker
So I'm really grateful I got to do that work. But ah it has been like a short window I'm not sure I will get to ever do again.
00:21:34
Speaker
It's definitely a very unique type of game. and i mean, it's the kind of game that's you like Never in a million years would you try and localise it. like Because obviously that's just a foolish decision.
00:21:48
Speaker
In that sense it was amazing because it was, ah i don't know, after like three weeks, there was the AIM problem. Suddenly a new character on your alphabet. And that was much more complicated than it would seem.
00:22:01
Speaker
appear to be at first because you wouldn't need it in a lot of places. In other words, okay, you can use any in these videos, but you cannot use any in these other videos.
00:22:11
Speaker
Which seems like the craziest and more fun conversation I have in a row. Awesome. What games are you currently playing?
00:22:25
Speaker
I'm not playing anything at moment. I bought blueprints but I haven't started yet. I want to play with my partner but been crazy months where I'm actually not playing at all.
00:22:38
Speaker
The last thing I played was Babushka Glitch Dungeon Crystal which is a really short game, really cute, I expected a bit more from it, it has a very unique, aesthetic static um un fun puzzle platform, puzzles, but yes.
00:22:56
Speaker
um But in the end I don't think it reaches, it really it really explores everything it could have explored. But I have fun with the guy.
00:23:07
Speaker
the moment I can only play a real puzzle or or just commit to a single long game for a few months. And we've talked a bit about some of your games, but you've you've made so many, both like jam-sized and also small commercial games.
00:23:24
Speaker
um Are there any that you particularly want to plug or talk about? I don't know. It's been a long time since I haven't really worked on on my own games. I've grown a bit separated from them by now. I've been focusing much more on other bigger projects that I now see my games as a past shadow.
00:23:52
Speaker
I don't know. I'm like quite emotional with my work, I think. When you say past shadow, do you mean like in a way where you're worried that they overshadow current things or that they don't represent like your current work?
00:24:06
Speaker
or More probably the latter. Yeah. I don't know, I feel like I haven't made them. a It's not like there are of various qualities. I think there are games that are really good there and really crazy difficult and really free in terms of what I was doing at the moment.
00:24:29
Speaker
And probably since I've been working on this, I take things in a different way and I understand and accessibility and approachability in a different sense.
00:24:40
Speaker
And I don't know, and at the moment I'm not doing a puzzle game. I'm working on some sort of deck builder, must be something that is not a puzzle that doesn't have puzzles. So I'm not sure. It's probably that I don't talk about them that much, that I don't know what to say about them after a year or something.
00:25:01
Speaker
That makes sense. um Do you have any questions for us about games that we've worked on? or similar. um So you have talked about how in the past years you sort of drifted or focused on really approachable games.
00:25:24
Speaker
What is the goal there exactly? ah Keep making enough money to not go out of business?
00:25:34
Speaker
is Is the facetious answer. um I mean, I think um I've just seen ah like like Cosmic Express to a Monsters Expedition is kind of like the two extremes where like Cosmic Express is so hard and Monsters Expedition is like really, really approachable.
00:25:52
Speaker
And so I think like that making those two games back to back was probably a really interesting comparison for me. Also, like just seeing other people's games um like over the last five years take a less combative approach to design. like um Patrick's Powerbox is such a great example of how um you can be approachable without losing that depth. And I've always cared about depth.
00:26:21
Speaker
I've always cared about exploring ah possibility space and a system really in detail to like flesh out like what the interesting consequences are. I care less about difficulty.
00:26:33
Speaker
And I think lots of games have come out that have just shown me that, no, you can have that depth while focusing more on approachability than on difficulty.
00:26:43
Speaker
And it just makes things that more people can enjoy. And then selfishly, I'm very happy that Drakknack games are getting easier because a lot of my friends and family have trouble with the hard stuff in Drakknack's games.
00:27:02
Speaker
And they don't play thinking puzzle games unless I'm working on them. No matter how much I try to convince them that other games are worth their attention to. Are there any upcoming games that you're looking forward to other than the release of Spooky Express?
00:27:18
Speaker
I mean, I'm still looking forward to Blueprints. I think I'm going to enjoy that game. a Have you been playing that? I played it in November, and then I recently picked back up the final version.
00:27:32
Speaker
But um yes, it's phenomenally good.
00:27:38
Speaker
And it is still a future delight for me. Yeah. Mari and I have been talking a lot about it at work at DracNec because she is obsessed with that game as well.
00:27:54
Speaker
I just want that same experience, but can you give it to me over the course of like two hours rather than 20 80? No.
00:28:03
Speaker
now Yeah, i think it's impossible to have certain experience in really short time. Yeah, that yeah Alan, you're what you are asking for is the first hit of dopamine that that game gives you, which is like two hours in.
00:28:21
Speaker
But you what you don't like but the the thing about that game is that it just keeps rewarding every single piece of exploration. Yeah, and that's that's really exciting.
00:28:32
Speaker
It's just like, I don't know when I'm going to feel like I have time to go like, oh yes, this is a good time to start playing Blueprints. I think less, I would worry less about that.
00:28:45
Speaker
I think also that is a game where if you have a medium amount of time between sitting sittings,
00:28:58
Speaker
I think that that would also help remove any meta puzzle puzzle blinders. Sure. Like in in some ways, ah it's going to be better to play it over a month than over a week.
00:29:11
Speaker
ah Yes. I think the the recommendation I've given people is like, try and go in with two to three hours free on your first session. And then it'll kind of flow naturally from there.
00:29:24
Speaker
Unless you're Melanie, the editor of this podcast who has been sprinting through it. So there's this logic of making ah games approachable ah but also short. Are driving games going to be shorter as well? Yeah,
00:29:45
Speaker
Alan. TBD? I mean, i I don't know if the average playtime for the average person for Spooky Express will be a lot shorter than the average playtime for the average person of Monster's Expedition. Now, if you're 100%ing both, ah then Monster's Expedition will take longer. But I don't i don't think...
00:30:13
Speaker
Spooky is going to be a short game. I think i think the the relevant question to me is less about the length of the game in terms of playtime and more about the length of time that something takes to make.
00:30:28
Speaker
And right now there's no appetite to make ah a game that takes three and a half years like Monsters Expedition did. And so like... That's not true. There's just not enough of an appetite to pull the trigger.
00:30:41
Speaker
ah that there's There's an appetite to have made a game of that size. Okay, yeah, that's fair. ah there's There's no appetite to to start it when we all know that after you start it, you've got to keep making it. You don't have to, but it would sure be a waste to not...
00:31:02
Speaker
Yes. um the my My facetious answer is that all of Dracnik's games are the right length. But like I think that the other thing is you look at some of the longer games that Dracnik has put out.
00:31:19
Speaker
And by that, I'm specifically thinking of a Monsters Expedition and Bonfire Peaks as a published title. And... like the percentage of people that have done everything, everything is not, it's not that high.
00:31:34
Speaker
And that's expected. Those are games with a lot of optional content.
Balancing Depth and Accessibility in Games
00:31:40
Speaker
But also, like I personally feel like if a player gets to the end of Bonfire Peaks or gets to the end of a Monsters Expedition, they've had a complete and fulfilling fulfilling experience, even if they didn't see every idea and see every...
00:31:58
Speaker
piece of content and spend every last minute that we built into the experience. I think those games stand really firmly on their critical path. Yeah, 100%. I would argue that probably ah you are bounded to the depth of the idea in the end.
00:32:18
Speaker
How willing will you be to ignore a complete branch of of ideas in terms of of making the game shorter.
00:32:30
Speaker
Yeah, Alan. How willing? Depends. Depends on what? if you If you do it on a Saturday when Saren is not checking Slack,
00:32:43
Speaker
it did like For me, it comes down to cohesiveness. um like we have We have cut mechanics because they felt like they would be a distraction, and we've added mechanics because it felt like they would aid overall cohesiveness.
00:32:59
Speaker
I'm always going to be more inclined to to do the latter than the former, but I think we do have a tendency to to just look at the big picture and go, like okay, what's what's best for the overall game?
00:33:11
Speaker
and And we might not be like, and I think we, the thing, the place where we, we like, where there's, there's a certainly legitimate criticism for production style is like we're prioritizing for the, or I am prioritizing for the overall quality of the game rather than like the development timeline we hoped to hit or the budget we were hoping to stay under.
Prioritizing Game Quality Over Timeline
00:33:38
Speaker
um Like yeah if I see an opportunity to spend a little bit more to get what I perceive as a large enough increase in quality, I will make that trade off a lot of the time.
00:33:55
Speaker
Uh, if listeners want to hear more about, and like, a conversation about whether to keep for cut a mechanic, I recommend going back in the, uh, list of podcasts, if you've not already listened to all of our podcasts, and, uh, listen to the Sokobond Express episode with Jose Hernandez, where we talked about ionic bonds.
00:34:17
Speaker
Is there anything else that we wanted to make sure we touched on, spooky or otherwise?
00:34:25
Speaker
Uh, hey, Wishlist Spooky Express. Yeah. you Also, you heard it here first. There's going a demo. There will be a demo coming very, very soon Yes, before the end of the month, if you're listening to this on the day comes out.
00:34:39
Speaker
um We're very excited. Everyone is working really, really hard ah to make this game incredible. Every time I see development updates, I just get really excited. So please, this is the next full-scale, internally developed game from Draknek.
00:34:58
Speaker
This is Mainline. This is canon.
00:35:04
Speaker
But Sorrent, if it's canon, where's the monster from from all our games? Because all of our games have the monster somewhere, right? Except for Sokobab.
00:35:15
Speaker
I mean, look. I've been saying in meetings... You can have Melanie cut this if you want. I've been saying in all of our meetings or messaging some people on the side or thinking it or whatever,
00:35:31
Speaker
Come on. the The monster... We're making a game about monsters. were get We're making a game about monsters. We haven't figured out how to put the monster in yet. It's obviously like a so part of the endgame. Anyways, i will we'll talk more about that later, but it feels like that that's going to be a reward because everyone's going to be looking for the monster.
00:35:53
Speaker
Yeah, but it's a shame that he's not scary monster, I guess. Uh... I mean, it could be a monster that thinks it's scary. Well, or maybe we can just find out that it has a really scary mouth at some point.
00:36:08
Speaker
No mouth. Yeah, we should wish should we like we'll we'll we'll chat about this more, Lucas. Yes, but I like, personally, I like the idea. It sounds sounds like Seren is suggesting that we add a new mechanic.
00:36:23
Speaker
i I love that. It sounds like I suggested this at the beginning of production and it didn't get put onto a roadmap.
00:36:36
Speaker
Oh, now it's silent. Now it's silent. I see. it didn't get on the roadmap, but there's always the ability to squeeze something into the roadmap if it makes and makes sense, the overall cohesiveness of the game or of the brand.
00:36:52
Speaker
Do you all see what I deal with? Listeners, listeners, this last two minutes was just what work is like here for me.
Ambitious Sales Goals and Closing Remarks
00:37:04
Speaker
Please, please, if you felt even a twinge of empathy, thank you. If you feel empathy for my poor suffering co-workers, please buy our games so that I can afford to pay them better to put up with my bullshit.
00:37:22
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, everyone, everyone we're we're our sales target for Spooky Express is 10 million units. If everyone can make sure that this, oh, and 10 million units sold and 50 million players on Game Pass on every platform, and it's on Netflix, and it's on Apple Arcade, and it's on, is Luna still around?
00:37:46
Speaker
think so. And it's on Luna, and it's on Twitch, it's everywhere. we're we're We're signing every deal in the industry. Come on. Everyone everywhere i just pay money.
00:37:58
Speaker
We need it. Oh, gosh. Alright. Is there anything else we want to say before I sign off? I think that's everything. Thank you so much, Lucas, for joining us. Where can people find you?
00:38:12
Speaker
They can find me on Blue Sky. Let's know. I think it's probably something that you Google and i will show. Yeah, that makes sense. And of course, again, we'll we'll just keep plugging this.
00:38:28
Speaker
Please wishlist Spooky Express. It's on Steam. It'll also be coming out on Itch. And yeah, super, super excited to finally be talking about this project after.
00:38:43
Speaker
Years of discussing if we were even going to make it. And thank you for listening to the Dracnec and Friends official podcast. Our music is by Priscilla Snow, who you can find at ghoulnoise.bandcamp.com.
00:38:56
Speaker
Our podcast artwork is by Adam DeGrandis. Our podcast is edited by Melanie Zawadniak. Please rate and review us on your podcast service of choice, and be sure to tune in next episode for more interesting conversations.
00:39:14
Speaker
you
00:39:41
Speaker
we back? I think I'm back. I can hear you at least. I'm sorry also for me now because I get really excited during the answer and then suddenly I see how everything is lost.
00:39:53
Speaker
I assume that it's doing some local recording. I mean, we'll find out at the end of this if this is a lost episode or not. No, I think like we've got enough.
00:40:03
Speaker
The dropouts are not going to affect having a quality podcast at the end of it. No, no. What I mean is if Lucas' audio is saved. I assume it will. If it didn't, then yes, then we don't have an episode, but hoping it will.
00:40:18
Speaker
I hope so. i didn't occur It didn't occur to me that maybe my audio is lost. So yeah, that cut out why you were talking about the noir mechanic, but I think we can probably find a full stop in there and cut it off.
00:40:34
Speaker
Yeah. I can't redo whole answer. No. No. We can can move on. Alan, react as if you just got a great answer.
00:40:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:51
Speaker
Lucas, you're so smart.
00:40:54
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. This is a bit of mess of a podcast recording, but I'm having fun at least.