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Episode 004: Makayla Jade - How to Increase Customer Value with Print and Product Sales
155 Plays7 years ago
Makayla Jade of The Harris Company shares how selling products and prints transformed her business, and she shares some tips for getting started with in-person sales in your own business.
Makayla Jade, co-owner of The Harris Company, developed a brand distinguished by providing an elevated photo and cinema client experience, propelling the company to reaching multiple six-figures and beyond in less than 3 years by serving a niche clientele that places a high value on printed products & photographic art. With a background in business consulting and marketing, paired with a passion for the creative industries, Makayla Jade has been featured in Rangefinder, fstoppers, and Click Magazines, sharing techniques involving business systems, brand marketing, and unique approach to educating clients about the importance of print and investing in heirlooms.
Her shining moment was the day she snatched her handsome husband David atop the peaks of the Berkshires and vowed to embark on a lifelong adventure of messy memories and worldwide travels.
Her biggest accomplishments are her two adorable kids, Blake the builder and Princess Lia who are the foundation of her why and the reasons for her craziness.
For the show notes, go to https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-makayla-jade-episode-4/
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Transcript
Introduction and Opening Remarks
00:00:07
Speaker
digital gallery I can almost guarantee you there's a giant percentage of them that still haven't done anything with their images and for you to show up in their inbox and say like hey you know I know you've been married almost a year over a year but let's put together an album that's gonna be a huge weight off their shoulders and an easy sell for you because they know I thought I would do it myself but I didn't.
00:00:33
Speaker
Welcome to the Brands That Book Show, where we help creative businesses find more clients and build their brands. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
Meet Michaela Jade from The Harris Company
00:00:42
Speaker
Today's guest is Michaela Jade of The Harris Company. Michaela and her husband have developed a brand distinguished by providing an elevated photo and cinema client experience, which has propelled their company to reach multiple six figures in less than three years. They serve a niche clientele that places a high value on printed products and photographic art.
00:01:02
Speaker
She's been featured in Rangefinder, F-Stoppers, Click magazine, and today she's sharing with us how you can effectively increase customer value through print and product sales, and a few tips for becoming better at in-person sales. All right.
00:01:22
Speaker
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us today.
Insights on Sales for Print Products
00:01:26
Speaker
I know that you've been super busy. You've been traveling already here in the beginning of the 2018. You were across, you were on the West Coast, right, for Mystic? Yeah, yeah, in Portland, Oregon. Yeah, and you were speaking there. What were you speaking on there?
00:01:42
Speaker
I was talking about sales there, so print sales, virtual and in-person sales at that show, and that was awesome. I was one of very few business talks, so it was different but very exciting for sure. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, that's perfect because that's what we're talking about today for sure.
Challenges of Moving and New Studio Setup
00:02:00
Speaker
And then you were down in Tennessee, right, for imaging?
00:02:02
Speaker
Yes, yeah, that was awesome. We had Millers brought us down there to do some product photos for them. They rented out a really cool Airbnb house that we were able to use to shoot some products and stuff like that for their marketing, which is fun. Yeah, awesome. And you do a lot of work for Millers, right? Yeah, we do. I mean, we use Millers as our primary lab. So we love to collaborate with them, for sure. Cool. And in the midst of all of that, you're moving into a brand new studio.
00:02:31
Speaker
Yeah, we just moved in at the beginning of this month. So the walls are still bare, but we're starting to get some furniture in. So that's exciting. It's nice to have a dedicated space downtown. So we're excited. That's awesome. And where are you guys located? We are in upstate New York in a town called Saratoga Springs. So it's famous for horse racing. The track is here. And so it's kind of a summer town, a destination summer town.
00:02:57
Speaker
Sure. And are you having somebody move in, move for you or are you guys doing it yourself? No, we did everything ourselves. I mean, luckily we were coming from our home. We weren't coming from another studio. So a lot of it is new. So a lot of it, we're just having be delivered here. A lot of the furniture and stuff like that. We ordered all new sample products for our walls and stuff like that. So it's all being delivered, but we had to take a few trips back and forth from our house to bring some of our stuff here too.
00:03:26
Speaker
Sure, and I think that moving is probably the most miserable experience. I read somewhere that it was just like biggest stresses in marriage, you know, and there's, you know, having kids, things like that, stuff that you normally expect, but high up on that list is moving.
00:03:43
Speaker
Yes. So how are you guys? How is it working together? First of all, I mean, like, I'm just thinking about me and Krista, we have, we definitely have our, you know, our discussions, you know, as we work together, but moving, I think is where we have some of our bigger arguments.
00:04:05
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I think it's just a stressful time to begin with. And, you know, especially we're like ordering new stuff. And David and I joke that he hates more than anything to assemble furniture. It's just like instantly a marital dispute.
00:04:21
Speaker
something is going to happen without a doubt. But we also don't want to pay for everything to come assembled. So it's like a catch-22. We keep ordering all this furniture that has to be built and we're spending so much time on it and it's always an aggravated hour or two hours. But we finally, we get it done, right?
00:04:41
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And furniture, I mean, of all things, we're putting together baby furniture right now. And I feel like, you know, I don't know who puts together these directions for these furniture companies, you know, with these pictures that are awful, but at least once whenever I'm setting something up, I have to go back and, you know, take it apart and then reassemble it because I put on something backwards or something like that. So good luck to you all as you set up the rest of your studio.
00:05:09
Speaker
Thank you, you'll need it.
Journey into Photography Business
00:05:11
Speaker
And I have so many questions too about just the studio and why you guys have a studio and all that, but before we get there, I want to talk about how you guys even got started in videography and photography, how your business came to be, and then of course get into the good stuff around print and product sales and how you guys do that so effectively. So tell us a little bit about your business and how you got started.
00:05:37
Speaker
So I started as a photographer when I just picked up a camera because I wanted to learn how to take better photos of our kids. I was pregnant at the time and I wanted to blog for our family that we didn't live close to. And so I started a blog just on my pregnancy story.
00:05:54
Speaker
And there really wasn't any other motivation other than that. I just ended up really loving it. And occasionally, some of my friends would ask me to take photos for them. And it just kind of fell into something that I really enjoyed doing. And I didn't want to go back to a corporate career after having my first child. So I had said to my husband, David, hey,
00:06:22
Speaker
What do we have to do to make this work so that i don't actually have to go back to a corporate career and provide child care for our son our newborn at the time and. And so that's kind of when the business side of things started to kick in.
00:06:37
Speaker
just trying to make whatever I needed to make in order to get through month by month. So I didn't start out with these big aspirations to be owning a studio in a downtown area or any of that or having my husband come full time, but it really just started out not wanting to pay for professional photos of my own family.
00:06:57
Speaker
So I figured, oh, hey, let me do it myself. And then, yeah, the business side of things just really took off. And I had a huge passion for growing the business. And so that's kind of what allowed us to grow pretty quickly. We were shooting weddings. David was just a second shooter with me at the time. And we started getting requests for like, hey, could you think you could do video? We were like, sure. Why not? And what were you guys doing before that? So before you started, like, what was your corporate job?
00:07:26
Speaker
So I was a business consultant, actually. So I worked for Subway restaurants as like a field consultant for them. This is my very first job, not on the corporate side. I was just making sandwiches back in freshman year of high school. That's amazing. Ultimate sandwich artist, right? That's right. Yeah, so that's what I was doing. I was doing business consulting for them. And David was in the financial world. He was a portfolio analyst for a French bank.
00:07:57
Speaker
He loved what he was doing and so he would just work with me on the side. So on weekends, you know, before we got super busy with our kids, we would go and shoot weddings and my parents would help out. We started getting requests for video and so we decided to learn that. And so David kind of took on the video role and I started doing photography and we would shoot weddings together that way. And then it just kind of grew from there. We started getting more interest
00:08:16
Speaker
in downtown Boston.
David Joining the Business: Growth and Client Demand
00:08:24
Speaker
in
00:08:24
Speaker
eventually he came full-time with us as well.
00:08:28
Speaker
So how did you make that decision for him to come full time? I know that, you know, we get that question a lot with, you know, husband and wife teams, and they're trying to bring the second person on full time. Like, how did you know? Did you guys set any goals even for you leaving your corporate job? Before you did that, and then certainly before David left his job, did you have like certain markers in place where you're like, okay, now we can definitely support the both of us in this business?
00:08:56
Speaker
Yeah, you know, we didn't. I mean, looking back on it, it's probably probably would have been smarter to do it that way. But we didn't have any like financial benchmarks or anything like that that we needed to meet before before it felt right. I think it was just it had become so stressful on us and our family to have him working all day and then editing at night and then shooting on the weekends that we just got to a point where like, this isn't feasible anymore. We can't do this. So
00:09:24
Speaker
Yeah, I know we felt the same pressure I was teaching at the time. And Krista had already taken the photography business full time. And so one year I decided I was going to try to both teach and help Krista more with the business. And it really was, to a certain extent, a miserable year just in that.
00:09:40
Speaker
You know at the end of a long work week you don't want to go and do you know more work there needs to be some. You know rest component in there. And the other thing to that I found was it's kind of difficult to navigate is. You know with a second person you could theoretically do more you know you could.
00:09:59
Speaker
book more but you can't really make that leap until you commit full time. So I think there is a component of trust that once you leave whatever job you're coming from that this will work out.
Finding Clients and Niche Focus
00:10:14
Speaker
So as you got started your business, what were some of the biggest challenges early on?
00:10:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think, you know, this is kind of a common challenge for everyone when you're first starting out and you're looking for clients, right? You just don't have enough clients. And so that was definitely me. I mean, outside of like my family who didn't want to pay me anyways, I could not find people to photograph. And so I was doing like a little bit of everything, right? I was shooting absolutely anything, anyone that would offer me payment.
00:10:49
Speaker
I think that was a little bit of a disservice because while it did allow me to figure out what style of photography I enjoyed most, it didn't allow me to really hone in on a system for anything in particular. I wasn't serving my clients in a way that was good for them or good for my business. I think once we really decided to niche down and say, okay, we're only going to focus on weddings or
00:11:17
Speaker
we're only going to serve clients that place a high value on photographic art, that we really were able to resonate with the right fit. And then in turn, we served them on a higher level and kind of established a brand that was centered around that particular service. And so it really elevated our business when we actually started saying no to other projects and things like that.
00:11:46
Speaker
Sure, so you're really just trying to focus on the kind of work that you wanted to continue doing. And you built this business in Boston, right? And then you've moved it successfully to Saratoga Springs, which is fascinating. I just, you know, especially with a service-based business like photography or videography, word of mouth is certainly a component, but even like other things like search engine optimization and social media, like you're really, I'm sorry,
00:12:15
Speaker
you're really focused on serving people in a specific area.
Strategic Networking and Relationship Building
00:12:18
Speaker
So to cut up and move, especially with your family, could you talk about what made that transition possible and so successful?
00:12:28
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there was a lot riding on it because David's full-time job was in Boston, and so we would be uprooting our family and our business and our security, essentially. So when we were moving to a smaller town, now the cost of living was quite a bit lower, so we were able to finally get this single-family home that we wanted. But at the same time, we were kind of thinking, well, if we can't pay our mortgage, that doesn't really matter, right?
00:12:55
Speaker
We were very strategic about networking and moving into a new town by like basically putting absolutely everyone first. We put together, I know it's kind of like an industry term that the dream 100 to kind of put together your
00:13:15
Speaker
your dream list of 25, 50, 100 people that are currently serving your audience, the audience that you desire to serve. And so we started doing that. We started writing down all the prominent people in the area that we were moving to that were already serving our ideal clients. And we thought about all the ways that we could offer value to them.
00:13:36
Speaker
to kind of open that relationship and allow them, you know, asking them to allow us into their world. And so, you know, for a year we did free work for promotional videos or
00:13:49
Speaker
headshots or photographs for florists, collaborative events, things like that, just kind of putting ourselves at the disposal of the industry that we were moving into. And we really, you know, it allowed us to establish friendships and relationships with those people. And those relationships grew into referrals and a really solid network, which ultimately
00:14:12
Speaker
I mean, I think is what we can contribute our success in this area to, because especially in a small town, you can't just show up as the new guy and start booking everyone under the sun, right? So that was, I feel, the only strategy that really allowed us to grow so quickly in a brand new town.
00:14:33
Speaker
Yeah, we talk to people, especially military couples. I feel like we talk with a decent amount and people who are moving every couple of years. In the context that we're talking to them, it's often in terms of SEO and trying to build SEO in the area you're moving to. But at the end of the day, I think that there's nothing that replaces what you're talking about.
00:14:54
Speaker
really going out and hustling and making those relationships and creating friendships in the area that you're going. And even if you're just getting started in an area, I think that is probably one of the best strategies that
Pricing Strategies: Digital vs. Physical Prints
00:15:09
Speaker
you can take. So that's awesome. So last year, was your first year full year in Saratoga? Two years ago was our first full year, yeah. And how many weddings did you all work that first year?
00:15:24
Speaker
Well, so the first year we didn't know we didn't know that we hadn't made the decision to move to Saratoga Springs like a year in advance. I think it was like in six months we were like, OK, let's move to Saratoga. Let's close on a house. OK, we're uprooting our business. It was very quick. So a lot of our clients were still back in the Boston area because they had booked us a year and a half in advance. Sure.
00:15:45
Speaker
So that first summer was a lot of traveling back and forth to Boston. But we were doing that initially with our kids anyways. My family is from this area, so we would be dropping our kids off, then going back to New England to shoot, and then coming back to the area to pick them up. And so this was easier because it was less time in the car for them.
00:16:04
Speaker
Sure. Which was really nice. But I would say that first year, we still had about 20 weddings. A lot of them were back in the Boston area. We tried to cap ourselves to about 25 or less per year. And the following year, so last summer, or this past summer, we were at 25 and an additional, I think, 8 that were just video clients.
00:16:28
Speaker
We had 33 weddings total, and it was our busiest year in a brand new town. So it was pretty exciting. And not only were we able to sustain the pricing that we had in a big metro area, but we were also able to increase our pricing. So it wasn't something we thought we'd be able to manage, but it worked out really, really well.
00:16:49
Speaker
And that's really what I want to move into, is talking about pricing with you guys. And, you know, print and product sales. So, I think, in total, the trend has been more shoot and share. Kind of, that's the philosophy. So the idea is, you know, you have a couple of collections, people book that collection, and then they just get all of the photos, all of the edited photos, right? I would say that's pretty typical.
00:17:15
Speaker
that before that shift started happening in the industry, that it was much more common to have a sitting fee or have a session fee and then to sell prints and products on top of that. And I think that we're getting, I think the pendulum's swinging back in that direction for sure. But then there's people like you all who have been doing that the entire time.
00:17:39
Speaker
successfully and I think people get nervous about selling prints and and products because they think man I'm you know I'm charging so much for my service to begin with how can I justify you know charging anything more to sell prints and products but you guys have done that so effectively so can you talk about your you know your pricing strategy and if from the beginning did you all include prints and products in your in your pricing
00:18:06
Speaker
Everything that you're talking about, everything from the fear of selling to the pricing aspect, those are all things that we struggled with as well. When I first started my business, I didn't have a huge client base. I wasn't a high-volume photographer. I wasn't even shooting. I wasn't busy.
00:18:29
Speaker
And I needed to make more because I didn't want to go back to the corporate world. So I thought, well, maybe if I could make more per client, I wouldn't have to spend as much time away from my kids. And I hadn't been experienced enough to charge a ton of money for my services. So I thought, well, maybe this is a great way.
00:18:47
Speaker
to supplement that and get that where I needed to be. Initially, when I first started dipping my toes in the water, it was like, anything would be better than nothing.
Learning Sales Skills: First Album Success
00:18:56
Speaker
Even if I have a $200 sale or a $500 sale, that's better than nothing.
00:19:02
Speaker
um I really just I put myself I set my expectations very low and was just kind of like okay if if I can just make a little bit more that'll be good and I think you know my first sale I offered an album that I had printed up as like a sample so I didn't have anything else for
00:19:21
Speaker
anything else to show them other than what I had just printed for them in hopes that they would buy it. And it was like an $800 sale, which doesn't sound like a lot now, but at the time, I was ecstatic. It was like an extra $800 when they probably paid me, what, $1,000, $2,000 to shoot their wedding. I mean, I was just starting out. And so that sale was kind of like a huge light bulb for me. It was kind of like, well, if I could do this,
00:19:49
Speaker
You know, I could get faster with my album designs or I could sell more next time or I could offer them this or I could have said this and you start kind of tweaking your system just like when you're learning to be a photographer, right? you try and do something better each time and It kind of became an addiction because I wanted to I wanted to learn how to communicate the value of these products better I wanted to learn how to listen to my clients better to actually provide them with solutions that were meaningful and
00:20:18
Speaker
And I also wanted to grow my sales. I mean, I was in business, so I also wanted to see a return on the profit side as well. And so it started out very small. It wasn't anything crazy. But yeah, from there it was just kind of like each time I started to get better and better at it.
00:20:36
Speaker
Yeah, and I mean, that's incredible. You almost doubled that customer's value just in that one album sale sitting there. So I'm sure that was back then a huge win for you. When you first got started, did you have anybody that you were kind of looking to learn this stuff or was this stuff that you brought over from your corporate job? Just that sense that, hey, I can either become more profitable by
00:21:02
Speaker
trying to book more clients or I can, you know, increase the value of that customer? No, you know, I mean, so it was in 2012 when I started doing in-person sales and there were certainly people in the industry that were doing it. A lot of it was around portrait sales, but I think I had attended a workshop and
00:21:26
Speaker
And Sal Cincado was actually talking, and he was talking about print sales and things like that. And it just, you hear about the potential, and you just roll your eyes, right? Because you're like, there's just no way, whatever. And so that was me in those seats. And I'm like, OK, that works for him, because he's this amazing, insanely talented photographer. And I just never thought that it could work for me. But I really wasn't in a position where I had any other option. It was either go back to work,
00:21:56
Speaker
and spend time away from my newborn son, or figure out how to make more money in this photography thing. And so that's kind of where I was like, well, I just needed to rationalize with myself. I knew that there were certain ways of doing this, and it didn't feel right. I knew that sales mentality, that pushy collections, discounts, that didn't feel me, it didn't feel right to me.
00:22:22
Speaker
But I knew that if the potential is there on such a wide scale that all these people are talking about making thousands of dollars more per client, if I could make just a couple hundred dollars more per client, that would be great. So I just took it and tried to adapt it more to fit my personality and see, well,
00:22:41
Speaker
I know that this client would love to have an album. So let me make a small album, and this is what I would have to charge them and start off. And I think when you talk about pricing and other educators on the in-person sales market, I think this is one of the things that so many people, education-wise, make a huge mistake on.
Pricing Confidence and Value Communication
00:23:00
Speaker
There's all these industry standards of you need to charge this, or you should make this profit margin. But the reality is, in a creative industry where none of us are
00:23:09
Speaker
insane like crazy business owners. It's so scary to tell your clients for the first time what you want to charge. And so if you're learning in-person sales and someone's telling you, you have to charge X amount for what you're offering and that doesn't feel right to you and you're not confident in the value of that item, you're never going to be able to sell it. So if you don't believe in what you're offering and you're trying to charge more than you feel it's worth,
00:23:36
Speaker
It's you're just setting yourself up for failure. So I almost recommend like do the math, figure out what you need to make on these products so that it makes sense and you can be confident in what you need to charge. But don't listen to everyone else saying you need to charge this, this, this, and this. Because if you're new to sales and you go into a sales room and you are presenting someone with a product,
00:24:00
Speaker
that you feel is way overpriced it's going to show so easily your clients are gonna be able to read right through you you're gonna look like a car salesman and you're gonna fail and then you're gonna be afraid of sales so if it's just a matter of like hey this time I'm gonna charge this is what I feel like I need to charge I'm gonna go in and maybe this year you know I see how that feels and see what what I
00:24:20
Speaker
What I can sell and next year I realized I need to bump my pricing then fine make those adjustments But if you don't allow yourself that wiggle room to get comfortable and get confident with your sales It's just gonna it's gonna be a mess. I bet that is so liberating for people to hear right now especially people who are just thinking about or maybe have never thought about doing in-person sales or product sales or anything like that in the photography business or You know their their creative business How did
Sponsorship Break: Show It Platform
00:24:48
Speaker
you decide?
00:24:48
Speaker
Hey friends, we're going to take a quick 60 second break so I can introduce you to one of my favorite companies and the sponsor of this episode, Show It. Show It is a drag and drop website building platform created especially for photographers and creative entrepreneurs. It's used by some of the biggest names in the creative industry from Amy and Jordan Demos to Kaitlyn James and it's what we built our website on too. What's awesome about Show It is that it's both powerful and easy to use. The intuitively designed website builder
00:25:16
Speaker
makes it easy to change colors, fonts, images, and objects. Finally, a website you can update on your own without having to hire a designer for every tiny change. It's Google-friendly, and you can design the desktop and mobile versions of your website side by side
00:25:32
Speaker
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00:25:55
Speaker
You can even save 10% on an annual subscription by using the code BTB show. For more information, check out the show notes. And now back to our episode. How did you decide what, you know, you started with albums, but how did you decide what products to offer?
00:26:14
Speaker
I offered what I liked. I mean, it was very simple and maybe a little bit selfish, but I offered what I would use in my own home or with my own family. I thought of things that would be simple. So I didn't want to offer a ton of customizations because at the time I couldn't learn them all, right? I couldn't learn all the options. But I also thought, well, if this is overwhelming to me, then it's going to be really overwhelming to my clients.
00:26:38
Speaker
Let me just hone in on a few solid items that I feel my work would look really well in and just offer that.
Simplifying Product Offerings for Clients
00:26:47
Speaker
I think that by providing simple solutions, it's actually better for sales because you're not bombarding the client with a bunch of different options. Now, just with a few questions of asking my clients what
00:27:01
Speaker
what I feel or what they feel they want in their home, I am able to provide them with one or two solutions that would be a good fit. And so when you can simplify it in that way, you're a lot more likely to close the sale because you're not providing them with a million different options and overwhelming them.
00:27:17
Speaker
So what does your process look like? You know, you send out your pricing and I'm sure you have sort of a set fee, you know, so that you show up to, you know, the wedding, whatever that collection amount might be. But then beyond that, do they know like, hey, I'm only going to get, do you give away any of the photos or do a certain amount of photos come with each of the collections or do they get all the digital files? Like how is that stuff all broken down?
00:27:43
Speaker
Yeah, so I think a lot of this is going to be personal preference, like when you're setting up your business and what really feels right
Transparency in Pricing and Process
00:27:50
Speaker
to you. But I think more than anything, whatever you decide, you have to be 100% transparent right from the beginning before they book. I think so many people are, and I'm guilty myself of saying like, oh, well, if they don't ask about the print pricing, I won't tell them until afterwards because I'm afraid they won't book me.
00:28:07
Speaker
But the problem with that is you're just prolonging the inevitable. It's going to be this really awkward conversation. And so it's better to be 100% transparent with your process and your pricing upfront before they even make a final decision. So that way, if it's
00:28:25
Speaker
something where they have zero desire to have a wedding album or they hate the idea of putting pictures of themselves on their walls like all of that needs to be cleared from the beginning because I mean the worst thing that could happen is you know they end up booking you and you have these expectations that they're gonna invest all this money into printed product and then you invite them into your studio and they're like totally on a whole totally different mindset right and then it's really awkward and now you have that you've created this animosity in your relationship
00:28:53
Speaker
if that is only going to perpetuate terrible referrals. 100% transparency has always been the most successful approach. But for us, with weddings, I think it's another misconception that you can't do in-person sales if you're giving away the digital files.
Balancing Digital and Physical Products
00:29:12
Speaker
And our business contradicts that statement. We believe that as a bride myself, as a married couple, we wanted to have digital files just for a security reason. But we also value the quality and the sanctity of those moments and want to have them printed professionally and done well. So you can absolutely find clients that are willing to invest more in high quality product and the experience.
00:29:41
Speaker
You think about, there are certain things in your life, you know, we were joking briefly about IKEA furniture and building stuff. And it's like, there are times when I would much rather pay for someone to come in and fully install everything for me if it just saves me a little bit of time. And that's essentially exactly what you're doing when you're specializing in that full service. Of course those clients can go to Costco or Groupon and do all the work themselves or Shutterfly or whatever else is out there. But sometimes they just want someone to do it better and do it well and do it for them.
00:30:10
Speaker
And that's the position that you're putting yourself in when you choose this type of business model. Yeah, for sure. And I think when you think about just the things that you purchase, a lot of those things you could do yourself. We could do so much on our own, but we don't. And the truth is that we want to go and find somebody that will provide that service better than what we would do ourselves or that would save us time.
00:30:33
Speaker
And I imagine just by being upfront about your pricing and your products, if someone says, hey, I'm not interested in ever printing my photos, I would assume that that's sort of a red flag to you all. And it's probably not an ideal client. Even beyond
00:30:50
Speaker
even beyond them not paying you more money, even beyond the profit aspect of it. I gotta imagine that that's just not the kind of client that you would prefer to work with because you would prefer to work with somebody who does value art and cherishing that memory beyond just the digital file.
00:31:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's interesting because I think it, you know, those types of conversations are what a lot of photographers fear. You know, someone's saying that they're not interested in any of that, they just want the digital. And I think it's what keeps a lot of photographers from choosing to offer printed product, especially in weddings.
Educating Clients on Printed Products
00:31:29
Speaker
You know I think it's a really awesome opportunity to open up a discussion that You know otherwise we kind of ignore right so there are so many online blogs that are telling brides You know just make sure you get the high resolution files or like the rights to the image or whatever
00:31:44
Speaker
you know misinformation is out there that's all they know that's all they're hearing so that's what they're going to ask for when they come to you but if you take that as an opportunity to just really ask why and figure out okay I understand that this is what you want but why do you want these things why is it important because ultimately we've found so many times like someone would come into our studio and ask
00:32:07
Speaker
you know this is all we want like we don't really need all the extras we'll do that later on or whatever and and really what it comes down to is that's not actually what they want that's what they think they want but when you start talking to them about like how they want to relive these memories and and what they want to do with these photos and and we're able to show them you know the alternative sometimes it's like a little label for them as well and you know I I really believe that you know the ideal clients are not necessarily just found
00:32:36
Speaker
sometimes they're created sometimes you have the opportunity to have someone in front of you that's never had a professional photographic experience before and they don't know what an album design entails and so in their head maybe they think like it must that there's no way I could afford it so I don't want it now and and really it's our job as photographers to kind of understand that and listen to them but also say hey you
Creating Ideal Clients Through Education
00:33:01
Speaker
know
00:33:01
Speaker
I've also been in those shoes before and I wish someone would have told me to hire a photographer that would have done all this for me because I still don't have a wedding album, you know, that type of thing. Yeah, that's such a great insight around educating clients because especially when it comes to weddings,
00:33:19
Speaker
they probably haven't done it before. They're probably getting married for the first time. And so I think that's such a great insight around the importance of educating clients and just around the idea of ideal clients as well. I think in many ways some of that conversation is overblown in our industry, especially when you're first getting started. Sometimes it's just working with people to figure out
00:33:45
Speaker
And you might figure out, you might think, okay, this person's not an ideal client, but then by the end of it, you know, love that kind of client. Or, you know, as you said, it's an opportunity to make an ideal client through education. That's great. So when you move on to, so moving back to product and print sales, when you're actually doing the selling, all right, what are, do you sit down with
Virtual Sales Process and Tools
00:34:09
Speaker
people afterwards? I know you have a studio now, but at one point you didn't, right? There was a transitional,
00:34:14
Speaker
period where you didn't have a studio. So how did you do in-person sales without necessarily being in person?
00:34:22
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. Even still, we have a physical location now, but the majority of our clients come from larger metro areas and get married in our hometown because they either grew up here or their families would come here during the summer or it's just kind of a middle ground for people from Boston and New York. It's like this nice little destination hub. And so about 80% of our current clients do not live locally. They live
00:34:49
Speaker
at least like three hours away. So for them you're probably meeting online? Yeah, so we do a lot of online meeting. We do a virtual sale sessions like this where I'll hop on a Zoom, we use Zoom to do screen share and they'll see products in the background. They're able to kind of see what some of that stuff looks like. I'm able to show that, walk them through some of the products and I can screen share and use
00:35:16
Speaker
We use Fundy Designer to just kind of go through the entire sales process from the album pre-design through the wall galleries that we've put together for them and help them pick out exactly what they want to walk away with. And so it's very easy to do it that way and still have that flexibility for the client where they don't have to travel in person.
00:35:37
Speaker
So Zoom and Fundy will include that in the show notes so that people can access that. The products, when you show them, are they the client's pictures in those products? Or are they just completely sample a couple maybe that you shot a long time ago?
00:35:52
Speaker
Yeah, so when we have them in person, obviously we have sample products, physical sample products available. And I think anytime you can have someone hold those items, it's going to, it's a lot more effective than doing things in just a picture online.
00:36:08
Speaker
And so when you are doing virtual sales, it's really important to make sure that those clients are seeing that tangible product throughout the entire process all the time, being reminded about that. And the nice thing with Fundy is you can actually do mock-ups and show them their exact pictures inside rooms, or we do the whole album pre-design where we can walk them through the album of their own images and all of that. So yes, it is their own images that we are mocking up for them virtually.
00:36:36
Speaker
Okay, so they are virtual items, so you haven't actually had to purchase an album to show them physically. And Fundy has all those tools built in so you can mock up frames with pictures in them or the albums, things like that.
Effective Virtual Sales: Sample Products
00:36:53
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. You can choose your lab and right in the software, you can even order direct through certain labs right in the software. And so it's super easy. I mean, in terms of like all that's out there and for affordability and effectiveness with sales, if you're hesitant about the technology behind all this, this is absolutely the easiest, like simplest, most affordable option. It's super great.
00:37:20
Speaker
You know, it allows you to do everything start to finish with the sale and with your clients and not have anyone get overwhelmed because it's all in one place. So we really enjoy using it.
00:37:30
Speaker
So for somebody who, they've been nervous just listening to this episode, but all of this sounds incredible, the idea that you could make a couple thousand extra dollars per client through in-person sales, somebody who wants to try this out, do you have any advice or strategies that they can implement to become better in-person salesmen or saleswomen?
00:37:56
Speaker
Yeah, you know, there's probably a million pieces of advice that I could give myself if I look back on my trajectory with learning and fumbling over sales. But the reality is, if you don't start, if you don't just try, then you're never going to have the opportunity to tell yourself those things. So if you're on the fence about diving in, just try, just start. I mean, you don't have to.
00:38:21
Speaker
Even if it's something as simple as reaching out to a past client and just saying, hey, we started offering albums to our clients and it's really beautiful to see these images in print. I'd love to put together a pre-design for you if you want to come in or we could meet up online and I can show it to you.
00:38:37
Speaker
because the reality is if you start doing that for every client, even past clients that just had a digital gallery, I can almost guarantee you there's a giant percentage of them that still haven't done anything with their images. And for you to show up in their inbox and say like, hey, you know, I know you've been married almost a year, over a year, but let's put together an album, that's gonna be a huge weight off their shoulders and an easy sell for you. Because they know, I thought I would do it myself, but I didn't.
00:39:05
Speaker
So do you find that when you sell albums to your couples that it often turns into parent albums and other products and when you ask about whether people want to see an album, do you lead with generally one product and then try to sell them other products during the meeting? Is there any tips for making this not as overwhelming sounding to the client?
00:39:30
Speaker
Yeah, so I can tell you what works for us. I think, again, it's going to depend on what you feel works best in your business. But we do include an album in every one of our wedding collections because it is our highest revenue generating item.
Boosting Sales with Album Collections
00:39:44
Speaker
So I believe that if you're going to build out collections, make sure you have some revenue generating items in there.
00:39:50
Speaker
And that is our number one revenue generating item, is including the beginning of that album. So we include a 15 spread album in every collection. And it's kind of, you know, it's a sweet spot because it's easy for people who come in and say, you know, we don't think we really need a huge robust album. This is a great solution. It's a very basic album. It's just 30 pages. At least then you know you'll walk away with something.
00:40:15
Speaker
And then it's also a great starting point for people who do want a bigger album. They know, OK, I can upgrade it later on. I'm going to start to plan for those investments. And so it's a really great sweet spot to start with that in every collection because it opens up the conversation. And then from there, I mean, we pre-design an album anywhere from 100 to 300 images in that pre-design to show them. And then we narrow it down with them in person or virtually.
00:40:44
Speaker
How often do, when you pre-design that album, how often do people decide to go with more photos than what initially comes in their collection?
00:40:53
Speaker
99% of the time. I think I've had one client this year that was like, no, we really just want to stick with what we already paid for. And sure, that happens. But I mean, on average, you're bringing in, what, $4,000 on upgrades. So taking one client that doesn't want it is you're going to have that. It's going to happen. But yeah, I mean, when you show someone their story in a beautifully, with music and the album design all put together for them,
00:41:23
Speaker
You can't say no because it's beautiful and they know that more than anything years from now, that's what they're going to want. So when you start having those conversations with them, then by the time you get there after the wedding, they're ready for it and they know that that's important to them and they want to invest in that.
00:41:43
Speaker
Yeah, I just read an interesting book and it's a new book by Daniel Pink and it's called when it's really more about like productivity and things like that. But one thing that he mentions is that people tend to underestimate how much they're going to value a memory. So essentially, these these people were asked to put together something in a time capsule and they're asked at how excited they think they would be in six months to see what the was inside that time capsule.
00:42:06
Speaker
And what they found when it actually came around to looking into the time capsule, that they were much more excited to look than what they initially thought. And I think the same thing is true about photos, especially for guys. We find that guys aren't quite as excited for things like engagement sessions, which is something that we push really hard. But at the end of the day, people are really glad that they did things like that. They're really glad that they got albums and they have those photos printed.
00:42:34
Speaker
And I think from a value perspective, I know you touched on this a little bit earlier If if we don't I think if we don't push clients to actually print their photos that oftentimes they just don't and so I think We are adding value in encouraging them to to Get prints and to get albums and like you mentioned as well
00:42:57
Speaker
If they go to Costco and do it or they go to Walgreens and do it, you know, there's a good chance they're going to like press a color correction button or something, you know, and they're just not going to get the same quality as what they see, you know, online in the digital file.
Financial Success and Community Giving
00:43:12
Speaker
So what, and as a result of album and product sales, just last year you did over $500,000 in print and product sales, right?
00:43:26
Speaker
Yes, we did about 185,000 in just print and product sales and over five with everything together. The profit potential is really amazing. More than anything, this year we were really proud of our
00:43:44
Speaker
per client average, we averaged two and a half albums per client. And so that was kind of just a goal we were trying to get past. We have a lot of parents that come in and you were mentioning
00:43:58
Speaker
knowing that value and that's huge for us with parents because they have been there before. They know the value in having the album and reliving those memories and so being able to open up that dialogue with them and have them weigh in on the couple and getting the album and things like that has drastically helped our sales as well.
00:44:24
Speaker
For the first time this year, we were able to start utilizing that profit and giving back in a much bigger way. And that was a really huge benchmark for us because being a small business, it's great when you can support yourself and your family, but it's even more rewarding when you're able to start really giving back in a bigger way as a result of what you're doing with your business.
00:44:47
Speaker
Yeah, that's incredible. Just making $180,000 in prints and sales alone, that's what a lot of people hope to make in a year. I think there's just incredible opportunity there and I do think that it enhances the customer's experience when you do that well.
Learning Resources and ROI Opportunities
00:45:10
Speaker
If people want to learn more, and I know that you have some education around this topic, so if people want to learn more from you, where can they go? We offer a few free resources on our education site. It's just education.theharrisco.com. You can find some of our free tools there. We do have some paid programming if you're looking to really dive in and learn absolutely everything you can about in-person sales or personal print sales.
00:45:39
Speaker
We also have that as well, but on my Instagram page, I post a lot of tips and things like that surrounding sales for business owners in general. So not just geared towards prints, but just even if you're not ready to 100% dive in on the print side of things and you just need some help booking clients or navigating the awkwardness of sales, you can follow me there as well.
00:46:04
Speaker
And I'll tell you, anytime I'm thinking about education, and so Kristin and I both try to do things each year just to grow and learn, but one of the main questions we ask ourselves is ROI. What is the return if I take this course, if I read this book, if I go to this conference, what's the return I'm going to get on doing that? And I think with print and product sales and in-person sales, the kind of stuff that you have to offer, the ROI is insane.
00:46:33
Speaker
You know so I would encourage people to at the very least check out those free resources but if you are interested in a business model like the Harris's have set up you should go and you should check out you know some of their paid options as well.
00:46:52
Speaker
So thank you so much for joining us today. I know that you are super busy. We're barely through the first month of the year and we're at two different conferences and you're moving into a studio.
Michaela's Upcoming Engagements and Workshops
00:47:05
Speaker
Are you speaking anywhere else this year that people might be able to catch you?
00:47:09
Speaker
Yeah, I will be at WPPI. I'm actually doing a master class on authentic in-person sales. So perfect for those of you that don't want to come off as a car salesman, but still want to be able to provide an elevated service to your clients. That's an awesome class. You can find me there. And then after that, we do have a few other conferences that we're planning on attending. I'm not sure if we'll be doing, we're looking at doing some more
00:47:34
Speaker
smaller intimate workshops surrounding those conferences as well as some intimate stuff here in our studio. So that way we can work a little bit more hands-on with a smaller group and help adapt some of the sales strategies to their own businesses.
00:47:48
Speaker
And how many Ironmans are Dave going to run this year? I think last time we talked, you got to decide the location for you guys listening. Yeah, and I think that's probably why we still don't have one on the calendar, because it's been up to me. Yeah, we have not decided on that, but I'm not sure. We've been looking at different countries. I want to kind of take it out of the country. He loves, he absolutely loves doing the Ironman, but it is
00:48:15
Speaker
a huge commitment for him and for our business and our family. A marathon might be on my bucket list, but I can't even imagine the mental step up that you would have to take to dedicate yourself to participating in an Ironman competition. It is, quite frankly, the definition of insanity. I see some of these people and I'm floored. It's just insane what you put your body through.
00:48:41
Speaker
It's a really cool experience and you know it's fun to see how much he enjoys it despite all the training and everything else. Yeah I mean just the amount of time and with all the stuff you guys have going on that's just impressive. Well thank you so much. Thank you. If you have a workshop or anything like that let me know and I'll be sure to share in the show notes.
00:49:12
Speaker
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