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40 - Frankie Silver and Michael Malloy
49 Plays1 month ago
Sam tells the harrowing story of Frankie Silver, who was hanged on July 12, 1833, in Morganton, Burke County, North Carolina, for the axe murder of her husband, Charles Silver. She is believed to have been the first woman executed in North Carolina.
Jeff shares the survival story of Michael Malloy, nicknamed “Mike the Durable” or “Iron Mike,” a homeless Irishman from County Donegal who lived in New York City during the 1920s and 1930s. He survived multiple murder attempts by a group of five acquaintances who were attempting to collect on fraudulent life insurance policies.
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Transcript
Introduction and Banter
00:00:00
Jeff Rogers
Hello, Sam. Hi, Jeff.
00:00:26
Jeff Rogers
Welcome.
00:00:36
Jeff Rogers
Should we just keep going from there? Should we just keep talking? Might as well. Welcome to Down the Rabbit Hole, where we sometimes play shit over and over again and it gets stuck in a loop. I told you to stop clicking. I can't help it. I just kind of double clicked.
00:00:51
Jeff Rogers
Welcome to Down the Rabbit Hole with Jeff and Sam. I'm Jeff. And I'm Sam. And that's us right there. That is us. that That first 57 seconds is us in a nutshell. It's, yeah. yeah And we welcome you to join us to this little crazy thing that we're doing.
Drink and Candy Preferences
00:01:07
Jeff Rogers
It's so much fun. It's also known to Sam as the v Vortex of Fuckery. That's it, right, Sam? Indeed. How are you? I'm great. How are you? i' You know what? We just had a shift.
00:01:18
Jeff Rogers
We did. I felt a shift because we just recorded, like, Monday's Sticky Note, and we were in a space, so we did everything we could do to... Reverse that.
00:01:30
Jeff Rogers
And now, you're making me happy. It says the Seagrams you're holding in your hand. Let's go ahead and cherish Queer's at the top of this show. Apparently you're trying to poison me because you keep buying me this stuff. That is as small of an alcoholic drink as I could possibly find. Yeah, but like... It's Sam's size.
00:01:46
Jeff Rogers
It's like that breakfast you had in England. So you see the size of this can. yeah It is very clearly not the size of normal cans. One time I bought um back in college, I went and I got beer for myself and a group of friends.
00:02:00
Jeff Rogers
Didn't realize that they were small cans because to me, that's the perfect size can, you know? my guy friends were all pretty big dudes, like the in the six foot range and just massive athletes, right? So they pull out these cans and their hands grip these cans.
00:02:18
Jeff Rogers
And I looked at it and I was like something doesn't look right here. And all of them were like, Sam, why did you get the mini cans? I sure shit had gotten the eight ounce. The 8-ounce cans instead of the regular 12-ounce cans. And they just looked so... Which, and your hand looks normal.
00:02:32
Jeff Rogers
Right? But they would they grabbed it and it was like their hands just consumed it. Yeah. It was hilarious. just splashed that one everywhere, didn't you? It happens to the best of us. Um...
00:02:45
Jeff Rogers
um um Let's do this real quick. Oh, yeah. Okay, so excited just then after double-played the intro music. She's really into it. That was Sam's fault. That was not my fault. I told you to stop clicking. know. It's my fault. is Welcome. Okay, you can find this show on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadios, and even Amazon.
00:03:03
Jeff Rogers
Yes, and once you follow us, subscribe, write review, tell us what you think about our vortex of fuckery. And on Instagram, we're downtherabbitholdapod gmail. We're downtherabbitholdapod at gmail.com.
00:03:20
Jeff Rogers
Alan and his touch of wisdom on Instagram is just amazing. Honestly, incredible. Unbelievable. Next level.
00:03:31
Jeff Rogers
Yeah. So there's that. That's the business. We're done with the business. And now we can talk. Okay, so before I forget about this. Yes, you had a story you were going to tell me. a laugh and I was like, can you share that on the show? Yes, I can. Wait, should we say what we're drinking?
00:03:45
Jeff Rogers
Oh, yeah. We're jumping right in. We are. um You know I love me my my main root spicy ginger brew. So I'm drinking one of those. And I'm drinking poppy root beer.
00:03:59
Jeff Rogers
I love root beer. Like, I love that candy that I brought back from Norway or from Sweden. I think it's Swedish, but you can get it in Norway. Like, just like you love it, you know?
00:04:11
Jeff Rogers
I liked the cactus one. You did? and did. I told you I did. The other one, to Ashley's credit, she was not exaggerating at all. It tasted like a salted car tire.
00:04:22
Jeff Rogers
Jessie... The other day i gave him some of the cactus one, right? The one that tastes good to other people that don't like the licorice one. That is licorice. Jesse walked past me and said, are you trying to kill me?
00:04:36
Jeff Rogers
It's favorite candy. it's It's like a little, um it's called lacquerol. I don't know how you say it in Swedish, but that's what it's called. And it is a very salty licorice, which is just, to me, that's so delicious. The cactus one is not that bad, though. That's the thing. Yeah.
00:04:53
Jeff Rogers
And so it's just that purple one that you tried to poison us with. It's like they rolled it in. pure salt and then stuck it in the container and they were like here eat this it's good for you so delicious no it's not okay it tastes bad speaking okay you go okay um nick you know nick yeah um he's he's one of our loyal
Listener Stories and Recording Mishaps
00:05:18
Jeff Rogers
listeners um and my brother-in-law Nick, we're hot messes. How do you listen to us? How do you actually like listen to us on a regular basis? We're hot messes over here. Well, you know, he he knows me through and through.
00:05:32
Jeff Rogers
He just accepts you because you're my other half. Perfect. So yesterday, so you know he does he does a lot of woodworking. Well, he's um he's making this really gorgeous, like, don't know how else to describe it.
00:05:45
Jeff Rogers
Besides, it's like a boat, but it's for serving stuff. And it's about... Probably as wide as your table and it's gorgeous and it's got these Norse symbols on it and he's he's just, it's gorgeous and he's doing it all by hand.
00:05:59
Jeff Rogers
Well, yesterday, it was a lovely day outside, so he sets up two sawhorses. So those are the, you know what a sawhorse is? Okay, so he sets up those and he sets the bowl. you just say, do you know what a sawhorse is?
00:06:11
Jeff Rogers
Don't act like that's an absurd question. Totally fair. Thank you. Sets those up parallel to each other. And then he lays the boat bowl dish thing across the space in between, perpendicular.
00:06:25
Jeff Rogers
And then Nick, who is six foot-ish, six foot two-ish, with ah long, long legs, starts climbing onto this contraption that he's he has created. And the first time he goes on, we're like, okay, that's okay.
00:06:40
Jeff Rogers
goes fine. He gets off, and then he's doing some more work, and then he goes to climb
00:06:46
Jeff Rogers
i sorry I'm sitting 10 feet away from where he's at. I'm reading a book, sitting on the chair outside enjoying sunshine. And I look over climb on and on it goes to start tipping.
00:07:02
Jeff Rogers
And you see the horror in his face where he's like, I got this, I got this. And he's flailing when trying to stay upright. And then I lock eyes with him and he realizes that he does not have it. He is not going to save this.
00:07:19
Jeff Rogers
And God damn, he went down so hard. I was like, oh God. And all I see is his legs like flailing up on the other side of this.
00:07:30
Jeff Rogers
Oh, Nick. And the reason why she's telling that story is because just before we hit record on this, I something, my microphone was not up as high as I wanted it to be. For some reason it went down and I don't know why. And so I was like reaching to adjust the microphone stand, this big, long stand to make it go up a little higher.
00:07:48
Jeff Rogers
And as I'm doing it, Sam got out her phone and I realized one time I did that before the microphone stand came out of the holder and it almost hit me in the face. And She was going to record it when it happened this time.
Entertainment Discussions
00:08:01
Jeff Rogers
Well, because you just looked so frantic and confused. Today or the last time?
00:08:07
Jeff Rogers
Both times. I'm afraid of this thing. It attacked me one time. it did. It did. But you survived, and it was not as exciting as I thought it going be. You know, people like to listen to our banter just as much or more than they like to listen to the stories that we tell.
00:08:24
Jeff Rogers
I don't know why. It's insane to me. I mean, we are quite funny. Maybe they're as insane as we are. Probably. Right? It's hard to be that insane, but. I don't know. Markita's pretty insane. Have ever met Markita? Have I met Markita? Yeah, and I'm doing this on with a purpose.
00:08:40
Jeff Rogers
Markita. Yeah, I know Markita. She said, don't ever say my name. Markita. Markita. Oh, great. Now I'm in it. you know you're I'm so sorry, Markita. wasn't me. ah It was all Sam. This is all Sam's fault.
00:08:54
Jeff Rogers
Anything happening in the world? No, we're going to avoid that topic. No, there was the Swedish prime minister.
00:09:05
Jeff Rogers
Apparently somebody or some people or whatever, they're getting confused with Sweden and Switzerland. So the Swedish prime minister... or an elected person, I think, from Sweden. I don't know if that was the prime minister. Put out a video. Did i show you that video? You did show me the video, and it's quite good. And she was explaining the differences between Sweden and Switzerland. and it was such a good advertisement for it. Visit Sweden. Oh, visit Sweden.com.
00:09:28
Jeff Rogers
So good. Yeah. Highly suggest.
The Tragic Tale of Frankie Silver
00:09:31
Jeff Rogers
Oh, I loved it. That was funny. That was a good one. um What else do we have? um You know, I've finished yet another book series.
00:09:42
Jeff Rogers
flew through three books relatively quickly it was another one of those books that you would absolutely loathe magic and fey norse mythology or um no kingdoms somebody oh my god i walked by somebody the other the day and they were like and the kingdom was about to come to an end or some kind of talk of fantasy stuff and i was like what what yeah well i really enjoyed it what is it that you read
00:10:11
Jeff Rogers
What's funny is I didn't even know the name of the series as I was reading it. I just picked the books up and started reading. um It is called The War of Lost Hearts. It's a series. Three books. Loved it.
00:10:23
Jeff Rogers
Loved it. Okay. Maybe I should not read it. or There's no dragons in this one. Ew. Yeah, no dragons. Oh, there's no dragons. Huh. You should try it.
00:10:35
Jeff Rogers
No. No. Uh-uh. Not in a million years. No. Oh. Okay. Well, I haven't watched TV or shows or anything, so I got nothing to add on that front. Any any new shows for you? no Oh, I'm going to watch The Diplomat. You told me to read that watch that. The Diplomat was good. Watch that.
00:10:54
Jeff Rogers
Because we were talking about- Madam Secretary. Taya Leone. Oh. Madam Secretary, that's such a good show. Such a good show. Such a good show.
00:11:04
Jeff Rogers
I love it. don't burn need And we haven't even seen a movie lately. haven't? mean, we have traveled around the world. Well, not really. Just over the pond. Well, went to Atlanta first.
00:11:16
Jeff Rogers
We did. We stayed the night in Atlanta on our way to London, which was unexpected. um That's it. Oh, you know what movie we have to go see? Is there good horror movie coming out? Heart Eyes.
00:11:27
Jeff Rogers
Yeah. Right? I love Heart Eyes or whatever it's called. comes out on 14th, right? It's March. It came out. For Valentine's Day.
00:11:38
Jeff Rogers
Oh. Yeah. We're a month later. Okay. We'll get there. We'll get there. That's how we do it. We'll get there. We will. Okay. Should we flip a coin? We should. Tell me when to stop.
00:11:51
Jeff Rogers
Stop. look how good that worked. That worked very well. like that a lot better than me choosing. worked really good. i don't like me choosing. I mean, I screamed. yeah think This is the two kroner.
00:12:03
Jeff Rogers
Oh, Denmark. in Norway or Sweden. One of the three. Okay, you are going to be... No, no, wait. No. We don't do this this week because my story took up 45 minutes last time, so we said you would go first this time um because I did the third wave.
00:12:20
Jeff Rogers
Oh, really, truly so my favorite episode so far. In preparation for this show, Sam, put your hands on the small of your back, sit up straight,
00:12:31
Jeff Rogers
Knees at a 90 degree angle. Feet flat against the, make the leap floor. Because we're not going to actually touch the floor. Especially my short little legs. Okay, there we go. Now, if you want to know what we're talking about, you have to listen to the last week's show, The Third Radio. it's so good.
00:12:46
Jeff Rogers
It's one of my favorite stories. I would say it's one of mine, too. I keep telling everyone, I'm like, even if you don't like the bloody, gory, gross, nasty episodes that we do, like this one, you will.
00:12:58
Jeff Rogers
Crazy story. Tis quite good. Tis quite good. Don't let me forget my charger. Okay. Okay. This story um is back to the normal Sam. It's not as bad as most of mine, but it's not good.
00:13:17
Jeff Rogers
In Mitchell County, North Carolina, there's a small community a few miles up the road on NC80. It is barely known by anyone except for the tragic and horrific events on a night in late December 1831.
00:13:28
Jeff Rogers
eighteen thirty one Okay, it's almost 200 years ago. Whoa. was like it was yesterday. yeah
00:13:39
Jeff Rogers
Feels a little close to home right now. Yeah. Yeah. The facts of the story are minimal, obviously, because 1831. But the details have been filled in with bizarre and not entirely unbelievable horrors.
00:13:54
Jeff Rogers
On October 3rd, 1812, Jacob and Elizabeth Wilson Silver welcomed their only child, Charlie, into the world. Unfortunately, Elizabeth dialed dirt died during childbirth.
00:14:05
Jeff Rogers
Charlie took after his father in physical characteristics. He grew to be approximately six feet tall, dark hair, fair complexion, and eyes so dark they were almost black. An imposing and impressive man.
00:14:19
Jeff Rogers
Jacob's father remarried and with his new wife provided Charlie with many half-siblings. The Silver family settled on one side of a mountain. Charlie's half-brother, Alfred, was the sibling best known to provide a repeated description of him as strong and healthy, good-looking and agreeable.
00:14:36
Jeff Rogers
He had lots of friends. Everybody liked him. He was a favorite at all parties for he could make merry by talking, laughing, and playing musical instruments. I wish we still said that.
00:14:48
Jeff Rogers
Talking and making Mary. could make Mary. He could make Mary. He could make Mary, too. You know the people would be like, make Mary do what? Yeah. Sorry. Sorry, Mary. We digress. Mary who? You know.
00:15:03
Jeff Rogers
I hate you. At the age of six, Frankie Stewart, daughter to Barbara and Isaiah, moved to Burke County, North Carolina. The family settled just on the other side of the mountain across from the Silver family.
00:15:18
Jeff Rogers
Alfred Silver was once again quoted describing her as a mighty likely little woman. She had fair skin, bright eyes, and was counted very pretty. She had her charms.
00:15:28
Jeff Rogers
I never saw a smarter little woman. Could she make Barry? He never said. Frankie and Charlie were a perfect fit. Everybody considered them meant to be.
00:15:41
Jeff Rogers
The 18-year-old couple married and settled their own small piece of land in a cabin on the mountain in 1830. As expected for the period, it was a sexist society.
00:15:52
Jeff Rogers
Being on the mountain made it even worse. There were many examples of men murdering their wives and receiving no punishment at all. Not much is known about the private life of the couple, except that Frankie gave birth to a baby girl, Nancy, shortly after they were married.
00:16:12
Jeff Rogers
a Family historian Wayne Silver, is considered to be the expert on all things family matters for the Silvers. He spent many years weeding through the few facts and the many dramatizations of what was recorded, reported, and retold from that night.
00:16:28
Jeff Rogers
He has disputed many of the outlandish stories that have surfaced. known and undisputed truth is that on December 22nd, 1831, Charlie Silver was killed, dismembered, and his body was scattered or burned by Frankie.
00:16:45
Jeff Rogers
There were claims that Frankie had lost her mind, just went mad one day. He had it coming. I don't know. i just It works perfectly. Some said she had wanted him dead for a while and had it all planned out.
00:16:59
Jeff Rogers
Others claimed that she killed him in a fit of rage and jealousy. Per Wayne. Because it's a woman. It has to be a fit of rage and jealousy. Jealousy. Oh, absolutely. A fit.
00:17:09
Jeff Rogers
Just lost her mind. fit. hysterical fit. Hysterical fit. Exactly. Exactly.
00:17:18
Jeff Rogers
Per Wayne, who's the family historian, the most accepted story is likely the following. Charlie had been brought up in the typical Mountain family, sexist and misogynistic mindset.
00:17:32
Jeff Rogers
This ingrained attitude was the foundation for certain behaviors and interactions between Charlie and his wife, Frankie. Three days before the holiday, Charlie was sent out to get the Christmas liquor.
00:17:43
Jeff Rogers
On his way home, he decided to enjoy some of it. By the time he got home, he was little toasted. The deep-rooted prejudices against females started pouring out.
00:17:54
Jeff Rogers
He complained about his wife and his crying baby. His mood worsened and things escalated. At one point, he picked up a gun and began waving it around and shouting, So help me, Frankie, if you don't shut up, I'm going to shoot the both of you.
00:18:08
Jeff Rogers
It's doubtful that he truly meant it. He hadn't harmed them up to this point, but he was in a rage. Frankie started screaming and trying to shield the baby. She picked up an axe to ward him off from advancing on them.
00:18:21
Jeff Rogers
He gets just a little bit too close, and Frankie swung the axe. Charlie was dead within moments. A brutal and tragic accident, but irreversible. In such a society, she immediately knew that she was in trouble.
00:18:35
Jeff Rogers
A woman killing her husband was never acceptable. Although she was in fear for her life and that of her child, self-defense never crossed her mind. After Charlie lay dead on the floor, 18-year-old Frankie did the only thing she knew.
00:18:48
Jeff Rogers
She ran to her mother. Her only thought was to find a way to make it seem like Charlie had gone and never come home. Together, Frankie, Barbara, her mother, and Blackston, her brother,
00:19:00
Jeff Rogers
thought to dismember and burn Charlie's body. Such an idea could only fail. I mean, in every story ever, if anybody gets to the point where you think dismemberment,
00:19:16
Jeff Rogers
you're you're something it ain't going to be good, you know? Yeah, yeah. If you are ever at the point where you're like, maybe we should dismember him.
00:19:27
Jeff Rogers
You've already... Don't go that yeah don't go that route. There's so many better ways. Allegedly.
00:19:36
Jeff Rogers
Interesting. None of them realized how impossibly long it took to burn a human body in a cabin fireplace. Oh, no.
00:19:47
Jeff Rogers
Oh, no. A neighbor was the first to become suspicious. Old man Jack Collis snuck through the young silver cabin in the days to come. He picked a time when Frankie was not home.
00:19:59
Jeff Rogers
In the fireplace, he found bones and a fatty, oily pile of ash. It's his liver. On the floorboards, he noticed a stain, and when he pried them loose, he found a pool of dried blood, quote, as big as a hog liver.
00:20:16
Jeff Rogers
and Yeah. On January 9th, 1832, Frankie, her mother, and brother were arrested. The next day, they were sent to jail.
00:20:27
Jeff Rogers
Isaiah Stewart obtained a writ of habeas corpus, claiming that his family was being illegally detained. On January 17th, the charges were dropped against Barbara and Blackston.
00:20:39
Jeff Rogers
Frankie remained imprisoned. As March fully bloomed, Frankie was put on trial. During the time, defendants were not allowed to testify for themselves. It's believed that she could have claimed self-defense at this point, was but was dissuaded by doing so by her father and lawyer.
00:20:54
Jeff Rogers
They wanted her to plead not guilty and make the court prove her guilt without a doubt. On March 29th, the all-male jury was retired to determine her fate. They came back deadlocked and asked her to rehear certain witnesses.
00:21:10
Jeff Rogers
Unfortunately, before the witnesses returned to testify, they were allowed to discuss the case, and some of their stories changed or evolved. They then found her unanimously guilty.
00:21:23
Jeff Rogers
Her execution was scheduled for July. Frankie's lawyer filed in a an appeal and delayed this shortly. In June, the appeal was denied and her execution rescheduled for the fall term.
00:21:35
Jeff Rogers
In a brief stroke of luck, the judge was injured and the fall term was canceled, so the execution was put on hold. When the judge was then elected governor, he was given the opportunity to pardon Frankie.
00:21:48
Jeff Rogers
Many people from the mountain had begun to feel for Frankie, and even seven of her jury members signed a petition for her pardon. He was not swayed. On May 18, 1833, Frankie's family stepped in.
00:22:01
Jeff Rogers
Isaiah, his brother, and one other man broke Frankie out of jail, likely aided by an inside man. By this time, 90% of the community wanted Frankie freed. She was recaptured eight days later on her way to Tennessee.
00:22:16
Jeff Rogers
This near escape created a surge and outcry for her pardon. Again, it failed. Judge Swain had had a reputation for leniency, but as governor, he turned a new leaf and didn't want to be seen as weak.
00:22:29
Jeff Rogers
The Silfer family, although not wealthy, had influence and land. It seems that he was swayed by their intent. In a recovered letter from July 8, 1833, he claims that he did not receive the appeal letters in time and attempted to remove himself from responsibility.
00:22:45
Jeff Rogers
However, the appeal letters in question were clearly dated and had been documented as having been received in plenty of time. Frankie was hanged on July 12, 1833.
00:22:56
Jeff Rogers
eighteen thirty three Stories vary about the events of the day, but most claim that when she was asked for her last words, her father called out, Die with it in you, Frankie.
00:23:07
Jeff Rogers
So Frankie died bravely and silently on a hill above the courthouse in Morganton. Although Isaiah had a coffin prepared, ready to take her back to her own people and be buried at home, her body decomposed too quickly.
00:23:21
Jeff Rogers
She was buried far from her home and her family. Charlie's remaining body parts, those that did not burn, were actually buried in three separate places, but a single gravestone bearing his name is in the se cemetery on the mountain.
00:23:35
Jeff Rogers
Little Nancy's fate was not well documented at first. Some believe she was raised by the Stuarts or the Silvers. Other stories indicate that she was spirited away to Macon County by Stuart relatives.
00:23:47
Jeff Rogers
She was raised there and married a David Parker of McDowell. They lived in peace and had children for their first 10 years until David was killed in the Civil War. Nancy remarried a man named william William Robinson, who then raped Nancy's first daughter.
00:24:03
Jeff Rogers
So Nancy ran him off and lived there with her children. Her gravestone is in the cemetery in Macon, many miles from those of both her parents on the quiet hills of Kona.
00:24:14
Jeff Rogers
Hmm. wow that was horrible right yeah i mean for frankie to get to a point where she's having to swing a freaking um axe you know what i mean right yeah and you know i mean it's mountains it's 1830s like yeah
00:24:39
Jeff Rogers
I don't know. That just sucks for her. does. And her kid. And her kid. Yeah. And her family. I mean. Yeah. On Kona? Kona, North Carolina.
00:24:52
Jeff Rogers
Small town. Oh. Kona. Not Kona, Hawaii? Mm-mm.
Transition to New Story
00:24:58
Jeff Rogers
So our stories have a little bit of a similarity. i mean, kind of.
00:25:04
Jeff Rogers
Yours have men and women in it as well. No. yeah Well, there's one woman. Okay, cool. There's one woman. There's always just one woman.
00:25:15
Jeff Rogers
It's two dudes or one woman. And she wasn't hysterical. She could have used an axe, though. Oh, wait. That reminds me, though. Have you ever watched Stonehurst Asylum? No.
00:25:26
Jeff Rogers
Watch it. Is it dark? No. Yes. My brain is kind of broken after watching that. Just watch it. Okay. It's good. Okay. It has a happy ending. Oh, okay. Okay. All right.
00:25:38
Jeff Rogers
Watch it. You ready? Ready for my story? Okay. I'm going to tell you about somebody they called Iron Mike. He was also known as Mike the Durable, and he was also known as Rasputin of the Bronx.
00:25:54
Jeff Rogers
Oh, dark. Have you heard of this before no at all? No, but I know Rasputin. Not the one from the Bronx. No, I don't. Okay, so we're going to go to County Donegal in Ireland.
00:26:08
Jeff Rogers
Oh, I love it. all that I can gather is that it's the 1800s. Okay.
The Legendary Survival of Michael Malloy
00:26:14
Jeff Rogers
See? see and Similarities, yeah. um So it's maybe the 1870s, maybe the 1880s, or it could have been like the 1840s.
00:26:23
Jeff Rogers
Nobody really knows for sure. And there's everything that you look at is a different date. Okay. So we're going to go with the 1870s, okay? right, let's do it. um There was a man named Michael Malloy Bourne.
00:26:36
Jeff Rogers
in Ireland, County Donegal. And there's the gap, like I said. But in 1932, jumping ahead because we don't know much, he was living in New York City. I'm sure like potato famine, get the fuck out of Ireland, come over here.
00:26:52
Jeff Rogers
Probably what happened. He's in his 40s or 50s at this time. There's not a lot of known about him. And toward the end, it was toward the end of Prohibition in America. So people are finding booze.
00:27:03
Jeff Rogers
If they search, you can find your booze. Some sources say that he would pick up work cleaning the streets or polishing coffins. um It's the Great Depression, so you got to do what you got to do. good times. Yeah.
00:27:15
Jeff Rogers
And my nose decides to run. um Where's it going? Yeah.
00:27:22
Jeff Rogers
You snorted. That was funny.
00:27:27
Jeff Rogers
Okay, we're going to continue with this. Maybe we've lost it. Some sources say that Michael Malloy was pretty much drunk all the time. And he was also homeless. ah So there was a speakeasy and it was owned by Tony Marino.
00:27:42
Jeff Rogers
This was a bad man and speakeasy was full of whiskey. Tony would earn a lot. He would not earn a lot of money from the speakeasy. Never.
00:27:52
Jeff Rogers
It was never because it was Great Depression. So people would always come in and be like, yeah, I'll pay. They had all these drinks and they were like, oh, no, I don't have any money. you Sorry. And they'd run up a tab. And Tony Marino let Michael Malloy drink in there all the time on credit or on a tab.
00:28:10
Jeff Rogers
And because Malloy hadn't paid him in a very long time. So July 1932, that afternoon, three men, including Francis Pasqua, Daniel Kreisberg, and Tony Marino, were sitting in the speakeasy talking about the subject of Michael Malloy.
00:28:27
Jeff Rogers
Michael Malloy came up because Michael Malloy was passed out on the floor drunk. Okay. So they're looking at him while they're having this conversation about him.
00:28:39
Jeff Rogers
Now, side note about Tony Marino. The year before he had befriended a stranger named Maybell Carson, that's the only female in this story, he convinced Maybell to take out an insurance policy and name him, Tony, as the beneficiary.
00:28:54
Jeff Rogers
The policy was worth $2,000 in which in today's money, like ah Then on a cold night, he forced her to drink tons of alcohol.
00:29:05
Jeff Rogers
And once she passed out, he took all of her clothes off, covered her in wet sheets and a wet mattress with ice water, and placed the bed that she was passed out on by an open window.
00:29:16
Jeff Rogers
it was really, really cold outside. She died and of pneumonia. And the medical examiner, he called it pneumonia, so Tony Marino got all that money.
00:29:27
Jeff Rogers
um Backstory on Marino That was the backstory on him Now Pasquale, he's one of the guys who was sitting there Talking about Michael Malloy And he passed out um As he was passed out Why don't you take Pasquale said, why don't you take a life insurance policy Out on Malloy And also, side note, Pasquale Was an undertaker by trading So Marino and Pasquale Looked over at Kreisberg 29 year old man, father of three And they were like, yeah So the plan's in motion.
00:29:59
Jeff Rogers
Take a policy out of Mallory and kill him. Pasqua did the legwork. He took a friend of his ah to meet with insurance agency. The friend called himself Nicholas Malloy.
00:30:10
Jeff Rogers
ah Nicholas said that his occupation was a florist. Pasqua took out three policies over the course of several months. Two policies with Prudential and one with MetLife or Metropolitan Life, totaling $3,576, $75,000 today's money.
00:30:26
Jeff Rogers
seventy five thousand dollars in today's money Two more of Tony Marino's friends joined in, and they were petty criminals anyway, so whatever, it didn't matter to them.
00:30:37
Jeff Rogers
It's the Great Depression. Let's do it. We'll help you with it. They were John McNally and Edward Tin Ear Smith, and he's called Tin Ear because he had a prosthetic ear made out of wax.
00:30:48
Jeff Rogers
Random side note. So then on a cold December night, 1932, they all came together to carry out this plan. We're going to kill Malloy. um tony marino said malloy you have an open tab you can drink as much as you want drink it it's on the house so malloy would take a shot marino would top his shot glass off malloy would drink that shot and it goes on and on he drank a lot of whiskey i mean he's irish yes absolutely and malloy was shit-faced drunk but at the end of the night michael malloy wiped his mouth off with the sleeve of his coat said thank you and good night old malloy was a drinker like you said the next evening michael malloy was back for more this happened three days in a row then four days in a row non-stop then he would leave marino thought
00:31:41
Jeff Rogers
Maybe they just should shoot Michael Malloy in the head. But then that looked like a murderer. So that's out of the question. So they decided to change Malloy's whiskey with shots of wood alcohol, which is the stuff they put in paint. Right.
00:31:57
Jeff Rogers
So poison. Now he drinks enough alcohol or wood alcohol that would, if you drink enough wood alcohol, it would make you go blind. Yeah. I mean, in the least also kill you, but make you go blind.
00:32:10
Jeff Rogers
And one of the guys brought the wood out bought the wood alcohol at the paint store down the road. So they brought the wood alcohol back to the speakeasy, and they'd give shots of but like regular whiskey to Malloy until he got drunk, and then they would switch it over to the wood alcohol.
00:32:25
Jeff Rogers
Solid plan. Malloy had no clue he was drinking wood alcohol, and he it didn't faze him. He came back for more. Malloy came back. He drank more.
00:32:36
Jeff Rogers
He drank more. he came back the next night. He drank more and more. Finally, one night, Malloy fell to the ground. Boom. The group of men sort of sat there in silence.
00:32:47
Jeff Rogers
Maybe they killed him. One of the guys, Pasqua, felt for a pulse. He put his ear to Malloy's mouth to check for breathing. The breathing was slow. It was shallow.
00:32:58
Jeff Rogers
It was becoming more and more shallow. Then there was a different breath. It was like a long, drawn-out sound. Some may say agonal. The men seemed relieved.
00:33:11
Jeff Rogers
This is it. They've killed Malloy.
00:33:15
Jeff Rogers
And then Malloy started snoring. He woke up. He came back for more again and again. but now it's like not only are the men not making money on the policies,
00:33:27
Jeff Rogers
But like Malloy's costing them a lot of money. They're having to go buy the wood alcohol and then they're having to have regular whiskey for Malloy who is the Irishman and he can drink for days. So that's now costing a lot of money.
00:33:40
Jeff Rogers
And so now Pasqua has another idea. Malloy likes seafood. Let's give him oysters while he drinks. But not just oysters.
00:33:52
Jeff Rogers
Let's put the oysters in denatured alcohol and let him sit for a while. This will kill him. I mean, it'll give him a god-awful stomach ache and really bad diarrhea, but it'll eventually kill him.
00:34:05
Jeff Rogers
They put the plan in action. Malloy started eating them over and over. He liked them. mean, he liked them enough. They were okay. And he was washing them down with the wood alcohol, a.k.a. poison.
00:34:21
Jeff Rogers
Nothing. So next, they were like, we got to do something else. Next, they got a tin of sardines. And they let them sit out for several days. They took the rotten tin of sardines and mixed the rotten sardines with shards of glass. Little bitty shards of glass. And they made it into a paste.
00:34:40
Jeff Rogers
And they rubbed this paste of rotten shot sardines and glass like onto a piece of bread and put another piece of bread on top of it and they made a sandwich out of it.
00:34:52
Jeff Rogers
So Malloy finished the sandwich and they waited and he asked for another sandwich because he liked it. Marino said, okay, I'm done. Tonight when he pats up when he passes out, let's douse him with the cold water and leave him outside.
00:35:07
Jeff Rogers
So at the end of the night, Malloy is shit-faced, passes out and Marino and Pasqua drive him to the park. They take his shirt off, pour cold ice water all over him on his head, on his chest, in the snow.
00:35:20
Jeff Rogers
They put him on the park bench and they left him. While they were doing that, Malloy was so drunk, he never woke up. Marino and Pesquah head back to the speakeasy. The next day, Marino found Malloy in the basement.
00:35:33
Jeff Rogers
He was so cold that he had walked a very long way back in the freezing weather, and Murphy let him back in.
00:35:41
Jeff Rogers
Now, these insurance policies are still coming due. It's February now. McNally said, let's just run him the fuck over. And maybe when he's drunk, it'll look like an accident. Okay, so keep in mind, there's like six people in involved now.
00:35:55
Jeff Rogers
Wax Air guy was really skeptical skeptical of this, but the other four were down. They were like, let's do it. It sounded good to them. So one of the newer guys said, let's get Harry Green to do it.
00:36:07
Jeff Rogers
He's a cab driver. And then Harry can have a little bit of the money too. Which, by the way, isn't that much money, especially when, again, you split it in so many directions. That night, more wood alcohol...
00:36:20
Jeff Rogers
Then they get into Green's cab and Malloy's laying across the back seat, passed out, and they find a spot. They stop. They take Malloy out of the car. two of the guys hold Malloy up, kind of like a crucifix, and they give the green light for Green to hit the gas on the cab.
00:36:36
Jeff Rogers
So Green hits the gas and then he slams on the brakes because there was a flash of light out of the corner. Somebody was just turning their bedroom lights on, so it's all good. So he's like...
00:36:47
Jeff Rogers
Hits the gas again. and then right when he gets to Malloy, a drunken Malloy all of a sudden jumps out of the way of the cab. He does this two times. So they're like, let's try to run him over for a third time.
00:37:00
Jeff Rogers
So on the third time, Green passes. like He punches the gas. He gets the car up to 50 miles per hour. It's one of those old heavy-ass cars like my grandmother had that I showed you video Indestructible. Indestructible.
00:37:11
Jeff Rogers
Green plowed into him, doing 50 miles per hour. They heard two thuds, once when the body hit the hood and once when the body hit the ground. Then, just to be safe, Green backed up over Malloy.
00:37:24
Jeff Rogers
but Days go by. Murphy, who's pretending to be Nicholas Malloy, Michael Malloy's brother, is calling the morgues. He's calling the hospitals, trying to find his brother, quote,
00:37:38
Jeff Rogers
ah Nobody had any information on Michael Malloy. Zero. Didn't even make it into the newspaper that a man was ran over. At this point, Pasqua and Marino were thinking about killing another homeless person just to pass it off as Michael Malloy.
00:37:51
Jeff Rogers
They started plotting this out. They're just the dumbest people ever. Motivated. Then five days later, they're in the speakeasy, and the door opens.
00:38:03
Jeff Rogers
Guess who it is? Michael Malloy. There fucking cockroach he's back like the dude's bruised he's battered but he's right there in the flesh and very much alive mom malloy said ah wish i could do an irish accent he said damn the stuff that's happened to me there was tons of alcohol there was flashing lights rushing at him a sudden boom blackness and then he woke up in the damn hospital all he could think about was getting back to the speakeasy to tell the gang about what the fuck had happened to him oh
00:38:34
Jeff Rogers
A cop had actually been the first on the scene and like found him immediately and taken him to a hospital. So Michael Malloy was yeah mean he was hit by a car, but he was alive and in the hospital.
00:38:45
Jeff Rogers
So now they devise another plan. Because the ones so far have gone so well. Dumb and dumber and dumber and dumber. ah They rent a room at a boarding house, and once Michael Malloy was drunk, they took him to the boarding house.
00:39:00
Jeff Rogers
They connected a hose to the gas line fixture and ran the hose into Michael Malloy's mouth. Carbon monoxide flowed into him, and Malloy actually finally died.
00:39:11
Jeff Rogers
a phony death certificate was filed, and the cause of death was labeled as pneumonia. They buried, and the doctor faked it. It was not pneumonia, right? They buried the body quickly, and they got their payout.
00:39:23
Jeff Rogers
They collected $800 from MetLife, and then they headed over to Prudential for the rest, and there they were met by the cops. The cops wanted to see the body. They said, sorry, Malloy's already been buried.
00:39:37
Jeff Rogers
Turns out the story of Michael Malloy was too good not to share. Most of the guys had been telling people about him and how hard it was to kill him. The story started going around to all the pubs, all the speakeasy.
00:39:49
Jeff Rogers
Malloy's body was exhumed months later. They discovered that it was carbon monoxide that killed him, and the doc that signed the calls of death was obviously corrupt and started singing like a bird.
00:40:00
Jeff Rogers
An investigation ensued, everyone began talking, and everyone faced charges. Frank Pasqua, Tony Marino, Daniel Kreisberg, and Joseph merson Murphy were tried and convicted of first-degree murder, and one reporter said, perhaps the grinning ghost of Mike Malloy was present in the Bronx County Courthouse that day.
00:40:23
Jeff Rogers
Then the men who killed Michael Malloy were sent to the electorate chair at Sing Sing, which killed them all, on the very first try. And that's the story of Michael Malloy, the Irishman in the Bronx.
00:40:39
Jeff Rogers
Jesus. Oh, I kind of hope that you'd survive the carbon monoxide thing. You know, when I, okay, I heard that story on the dollop and the dollop is a podcast. And I swear, i don't know the men that host the dollop, but it sounds like they were drunk and I loved every minute of it. Maybe they were sober, but they're comedians.
00:40:58
Jeff Rogers
So they told that story on the podcast and I thought the way they told it was so funny, kind of like the way I told it to you And, but then I was like, well, damn, that's actually kind of sad.
00:41:09
Jeff Rogers
Yeah. But, you know, he is now a legend because that story is legendary.
Conclusion and Gratitude
00:41:15
Jeff Rogers
Because he was so hard to kill. Absolutely. Good for him.
00:41:19
Jeff Rogers
Absolutely. Hit by a car and then woke up in the hospital going, God, I got to get back to tell them all about it you know? i just, I don't want to see what his stomach lining looks like.
00:41:30
Jeff Rogers
It just shredded. Well, good news. You can. Or you can't. You don't have to. And I don't recommend it. But when I was Googling it. I googled like um the tombstone and you can see the tombstone it actually the tombstone says born in 18 I think 42 or something like that see everything says something different yeah um but they also have the autopsy photo of Michael Malloy and it's still enough to see the actual man like you can see photos of Michael Malloy and you can see
00:42:02
Jeff Rogers
Yeah, I don't recommend that if you don't want to see an autopsy picture. But I love that story because, you know, like at the heart of me, i love a survival story. And that one is like kind of a fun one to do. He was trying to survive.
00:42:16
Jeff Rogers
Didn't know he wasn't. He didn't know he was trying to survive. He was just doing it. He was just doing it. Raw sardines mixed with shards of glass. Your face, and i when I was telling you that, you were looking like, oh, God, that would kill me.
00:42:29
Jeff Rogers
but Seriously. like his stomach lining must have been just made of steel. You know, and he was chasing it down with poison. He was. For days.
00:42:41
Jeff Rogers
We didn't cheer Squares. Did we? I think we talked about it. Oh, you know what? To Michael Malloy. Cheers, queers. Cheers, queers. And Irish.
00:42:53
Jeff Rogers
And the Irish from New York. You Irish people. Love them. Is that all? Is that all we have for you today? We're keeping it to 45 minutes, people. We're trying. I mean, we like to talk, you know? Yeah. um I want to thank Alan. He's our overqualified. He's our most underpaid publisher, content creator extraordinaire.
00:43:17
Jeff Rogers
Ashley, the ultimate and epically unmatched hype queen editor. And Kelsey, our incomparable swag and merch creator. And together, they're our first... And forever fans. Thanks, everybody.
00:43:31
Jeff Rogers
ae