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Ep.68 PLart Project with Antonio Irre
52 Plays4 months ago
In this episode, I engage in a fascinating conversation with Antonio Irre, the visionary behind the PLart Project. We delve deep into the intricate relationship between humans and plants, exploring concepts such as stigmergy, plant-human communication, and the profound energetic connections that bind us. Antonio shares insights from his innovative work, illustrating how plants and humans can interact in ways that transcend traditional boundaries.
Our discussion highlights the importance of interdisciplinary collaboration between the arts and sciences, revealing how these fields can converge to enhance our understanding of plant studies. Antonio and I reflect on how approaching plant studies with a sense of curiosity and openness can lead to groundbreaking discoveries and deeper connections with the natural world. This edition is a rich tapestry of ideas and experiences, offering a unique perspective on the symbiotic dance between humans and the plant kin-home.
Antonio Irre Catalano, Artist, independent researcher and cultural designer specializes in site-specific and audience-specific art practices. He is a performer and an author of performances, visual works, poems, short stories, and theater. As a researcher, his current focus is a project between Art and Science on plants and human-plant communication. With specific independent training in Third Theater and Interactive Media (Master’s degree in Cognitive Systems and Interactive Media, Universitat Pompeu Fabra, Barcelona), his educational background includes a Bachelor’s degree in Pharmaceutical Chemistry, a Master’s degree in Bioethics, and a Minor in Art Enterprise Management. His works have been presented at the Venice Biennale (2022), Campo Base Milan (2022), Supermarket Art Fair Stockholm (2021, 2019), MACRO Rome (2019).
👉🏽 If you want to continue having conversations like this to nourish your own plant-human relationships, join the Naturally Conscious community. https://tigrillagardenia.com/ncc
Topics Covered about art projects
➡️ Art and Science: Complementary Roles and Influences
➡️ Interdisciplinary Collaboration in Plant Studies
➡️ Interconnectedness in Nature and Human Thinking
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Transcript
Introduction to Inter-species Artistic Exploration
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Reconnect with Plant Wisdom. It's me, Tigraya Gardenia, and I am delighted to be able to share this conversation. I am having so much fun finding all of these interspecies artists that are mixing plant communication and you know, plant experiences and plant cognition into the performance space. So they are researchers as well as artists. And that's exactly what you're going to find in this episode with Antonio Ire. And we just had a fascinating conversation about his research and his path and then also where he is today and the different projects that he's working on.
00:00:43
Speaker
So I really think you're going to enjoy this. Plus, he gave us access to a few snippets of his work, which are so fun, so fun. But I'll let you discover it yourself. So please enjoy Episode 68, Plart Project with Antonio Iribe.
00:01:02
Speaker
Welcome to reconnect with plant wisdom. I'm your host Tigri La Gardenia, nature inspired mentor and leadership coach. In this podcast, I share ancient and modern knowledge from biology to spirituality about the wondrous ways in which plants can help you lead a naturally conscious life.
00:01:21
Speaker
Antonio, I am really looking forward to this conversation. Right before we started recording, I was saying how lots of people ask me since I live in Domino, which is in Italy, if I do things in Italy, and outside of Domino, to be honest, and biomimicry Italia, which I do participate in when we do things occasionally. I very rarely if ever work in Italy. And now I have you and Julia, and I'm so excited to hear about the work that you are doing. So before we start, please tell everybody who is Antonio. Okay.
Antonio's Journey: From Chemistry to Plant Communication
00:01:56
Speaker
Ciao a tutti, a tutti. Hello, everybody. And thanks to Tigrile for this kind of invitation to talk a a little bit about plans and our relationship are with them and how we
00:02:09
Speaker
are trying to to do step by step ahead towards a bigger knowledge. I mean, this is what I'm doing. I'm Antonio Oire. I'm an artist, independent researcher and a cultural designer. I'm also a pharmaceutical chemist, inventor, and some other things. So that's that's my point. I try to check a reality from different points of view. And starting from there, I try to make another step. Hi. Where did the connection to plants come in? OK, it's a long story. I tried to make it short because it's 44 years of research. I mean, probably when I was starting working I started thinking about who I am and so on. So I started studying and I ended up studying a pharmaceutical chemistry that put together biology and chemistry to start reasoning about who we are. And then I i went on and I started also with arts to try to figure out the work first with music and then I discovered theater.
00:03:31
Speaker
and performance. And then I tried to put these two things together. So I studied a master in cognitive science and interactive media. And and where I basically studied the interaction between agents. So this is my theory, my theoretical basis. So basically who we are, we are a bunch of cells. That's the point. And so somehow, through e-mergy, that means the interaction of people. One of my stupid words with my favorite concepts. Nobody ever talks about something e-mergy. Go ahead. Yeah, I did. I did. It's so easy. So I would send you. I love it. I would send it. So e-mergy is a behavior of, for example, his worms.
00:04:30
Speaker
hands, they they do very simple actions, but they are able to create a very complex behavior out of that. So Stigmergili is like working on the little clue that we have around us, but that all these clues together allows us to to step on a different level. And so studying agents and how they interact, they study cooperation and reason, but basically i ended up figuring out that we are we are a bunch of cells that are adapting and integrating with the with the with the rest of the world. And then I say, OK, but also plants are a bunch of cells. So wait a moment. Why what why are we so different?
Conceptualizing Plant Communication
00:05:20
Speaker
Well, we are not so different at the end. We, of course, some millions of years ago, maybe 400 millions of something about
00:05:30
Speaker
We have we decided to go to two different facts Because we were all coming from the same way and then there was a defecation so plants decided to stay to develop a Decide then we will speak about one and la let decide what a moment to um add to To stay to whatever They created this kind of cooperation with the chloroplast. They were able to to do photosynthesis, so probably incorporating another cell. While animals decided to move, so they incorporated this other microorganism and created mitochondria. like So they have two different ways of creating their own energy, of transforming the energy.
00:06:31
Speaker
to their own needs and of course two mainly strategies one stays the other fight or flight they say so either a fighter they can you can just escape in case of emergency but actually we are really the a bunch of cells so we have the same ah ah network transmitters so really really a very similar pathways biological pathways So I say, okay, so in this case, we can also communicate. And that was the first step I reached. And then the plant awakening began. Exactly, exactly. Because yes, if you can, if you can also only think that there is a possibility to communicate with plants, then your point of view completely changes.
00:07:30
Speaker
And so this was the the beginning. I e started after this so glimpse. I say, oh, maybe I can bring to other people this ah this reasoning. And I can do that through art. That is my main way of expression. So they definite I started thinking which kind of work I can develop from that. And the first work was an installation I did for a small town here in in Italy, um because I say, OK, we can communicate with plants. But what I do, I ask the plants. I mean, what I have to say to plants, I'm not really very, very expert in communication. I'm not very talkative person. So I didn't really have a clear question or clear argument with them. So I started creating this installation around the city to for different trees, plants around the city, ah where people can leave messages for the plants. And that was interesting because the my plan was to go and check the missed messages. But after I read a couple of them, they were so personal, and between the person and the plant.
00:08:56
Speaker
that I really felt I was not kind of authorized to do that. It was up to me. So at the end, I just left them voted for the plans. And I didn't read them anymore. But it was a nice try,
Artistic Inspirations and Projects
00:09:11
Speaker
let's say. And then out of this, and I started writing poetry. And I also did a lot of research of what ah other people, other artists, did in this direction. And I found a couple of books of texts that were really saying what I wanted to say, but better that probably than me. One was the Metamorphoses of France by Gator. And another one was Palomar by Itoro Calvino. And he started from a chapter where he speaks about bad weeds. What are good weeds? What are bad weeds?
00:09:52
Speaker
and where is the line that separates that. and And so I started from these two texts and some other texts that I wrote. And the first show was born. The record is The Infinite Middle. And this was developing a site-specific project. This was born under a probably 5,000 all the years, orak three. So it's a traveling guy nature show where I kind of organize a traveling tour for my guests, like an agency of touring. And where really the tour is, you know, in the middle of of but Mr. Palomar and the experience in what is in this video.
00:10:48
Speaker
And this is the first attempt I did to to bring the message to the future. I'm going to stop you for a second, just because you've already done on so many things that I want to go back to. And we're going to have a conversation on stigmurgy, just so you know. i The very first biomimicry project that I ever worked on, and in this case it was more of like classroom work, but one of the properties we were using was stigmurgy, because it was so, um I realized as I was learning more about stigmurgy, how
00:11:23
Speaker
at Dom and Her, the temples of humankind were built with stigmurgy. Like so many places, we didn't know what anybody else was doing, but we knew there was an overall project. Every person did their piece. And there's very much this philosophy of an almost stigmergic philosophy unknown to most people. And I find that it's it's such an important aspect of nature that helps us find a completely different way of working together, of being together, of of trusting, because that's really what it is. like You do your piece, and the whole picture comes together. There's there's so many aspects of stinger I love. But I'm going to put that aside for a moment, even though I'm sure that you and I will have a conversation about it because ah you know of all these things.
00:12:12
Speaker
Did you find when you were doing the first project, right, when you were doing your installation with all of these personal notes, which I do find interesting that we as human beings, when we have the opportunity to talk to plants, we start very personal, very, very personal. And what do you think based on your own um conversations, let's say this, with the plants that you were working with, what do you think the plants got out of that? Like what changed in the relationship between human plants from this this act of I see you and I actually want to leave you a very personal message?
00:12:52
Speaker
and So in this first work, I i tried to involve some messengers. Why? Because the messages were left inside some bamboo canes, some small bamboo canes. And to leave the message we have to break a little door that I created with plants, with leaves. And what happens that creating this breaking this war door ah basically it creates a nest for instance. So the poetic images were that
00:13:29
Speaker
These messages were brought to plants by the insect that were living with them, that they probably know much better. The plant, of course, this is a poetic image, but I think that maybe some translators, some messengers could add that, especially in these first steps. Do you think that the plants are different? Not just, I mean, i I work with a lot of people and obviously when you start this plant reawakening and you start this process of recognizing that, oh wait, if I'm leaving a message to the plant, it's obviously because I feel like the plant in some ways receives that
Balancing Science and Intuition in Plant Research
00:14:13
Speaker
message. If not, I wouldn't spend the time.
00:14:15
Speaker
writing the message. So as the plant receives that message, most likely energetically, you know, I don't I don't really see the ants squirrel opening the little piece of paper and reading it to the plant. But somehow the message gets there. Do you think that the relationship in in that way? Do you think that the plants changed like something changed? I know that that's going a little beyond communication. It's probably a little woo. not that's Okay, it's okay. It's okay. I mean, uh from a a scientific point of view I cannot say that because I did not measure anything and I did not observe anything changing so but I have several points of view so from this I cannot say um from the other of course I think that something in uh in people have changed ah probably the they they was different after
00:15:16
Speaker
doing this. and Plants have a really different time frames that we have. So so I think probably they need a very long lasting relationship to to change. This is my my opinion. the But it's not scientifically based, but I think well it's actually also some kind of I mean, clients sometimes have really different timescales. And from some research, it looks that only after many minutes, they really kind of recognize that something is there, someone is there. So in this case, I don't know if it happens, to stay longer time to
00:16:15
Speaker
kind of connect. Yeah, I think this is always the hard part and the beautiful part, depending on how you look at it and the type of work we do, especially for all of us that have that scientific knowledge. And yet we're doing things that ah Natasha Meyer spoke about this really clearly in her plant sensing paper, where she talks about how the older generation of scientists that have been working with plants for a long time can more easily admit that they have been changed, and that their knowledge that they're receiving the the direction sometimes has to be coming from the plants because if not, where else would they realize some of the discoveries or, you know, you never and with Evgenia Emmett's just the other week we were talking about this about how
00:17:04
Speaker
Some discoveries, it's impossible to think that we stumbled ah upon it. You had to be guided to know that that herb is going to help you in this way, or that this herb and this plant go together in order to make a medicine. like That doesn't just come because of I'm, I don't know, I have to be connected to something. But it's it is true that it is hard and it's still hard to to scientifically show some of these pieces. And so that line, that fine line between faith or or feeling and what we can actually measure, especially in these early stages where we we want to show people things, but we don't want to be
00:17:49
Speaker
disregarded as a little bit like out there type of thing. It's such a, it's a, it's a very, very delicate balance. And I, and I can imagine that, you know, with this project, Infinite Meadows, you had the opportunity to sort of enter into a different type of relationship. You had said earlier that there was some writings from that. Can you hear some of that work? Ah, well, of course, of course. So you can read that just as more extract from, I would love it, from the copy. and And the other goes.
00:18:26
Speaker
So basically this is, well, I will not explain it just really. I like that better. I think I got it. Excellent. Primordial growth and tickle form. Here, a bubble, a slender barrier, It creates a difference between outside and inside. It creates and it resists to exist. But what if, by invisible miracle, it maintains the precarious imbalance? There it sucks. It fights and shies away and competes.
00:19:16
Speaker
It keeps and bluffs, and grations, sparkles, and it sticks. Membranes, stacks like drool. If they have boondons with spatons, in the shortest, we turn away, and we suck each other. And dead peas, they roam into the mush, and become clues, messages, stimuli holds reinforcement worth for those who resist. Through huge wide eyes which don't exist, survival gaze upon the stars at the light of millions of years ago. And then chance and randomness becomes necessity.
00:20:14
Speaker
It becomes so powerful, the balance of an instant that it must exist soon.
00:20:24
Speaker
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00:21:08
Speaker
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PLART Project: Merging Art and Science
00:21:44
Speaker
All right, we're back and I want to hear about this Plart. First of all, creative name. I like the name. well i'm I'm all for names like that. So tell me about the Plart project.
00:21:58
Speaker
Yeah, well, the PLARTS project is the title of, an umbrella title of all this work I'm doing after the Infinite Middle. I wanted to get more, to get deeper into into the scientific and of course, also artistic reasoning. So what I did, i was able I was lucky enough to get in contact with Professor Ninkovich. is one of the maximum experts in the plant communication by a scientific point of view. He works at the Ezalu University in Uppsala, Sweden. And so I made a residency there as ah as an artist and I was able to explore the laboratories and interview some of the researchers that were working there and
00:22:53
Speaker
that quite a very interesting conversation with Professor Ninkovic. Of course, they work in ah agriculture at the sector, so they are studying plant communication because they want to improve the agricultural part of it. ah So maybe use less pesticides because they can use ah and words that plants use to say the things. that are mainly pheromones, smells, or they want to to improve them. But um the fact that to do that, they have to do basic research because we really are starting that, if not from the scratch, but only in the last 20 years probably, the science and all the society probably started reasoning about plants in a different way.
00:23:46
Speaker
and then 20 years ago we were still talking about plant dryness so basically this concept came out because ah we don't really see plants around us okay maybe some your your ah listeners are made more sensitive than other people but and most people when they came back home at the evening they don't probably your reason about knowing Have you met any plants during the day? But maybe they remember about that dog or that cat that were passing, but no plants, probably. But also, planet science has started to to really get into...
Debating Plant Intelligence
00:24:30
Speaker
ah And this is very fascinating because we know that animals have nervous system, so they have all the sense connected to that, and we raise them, and the image came out. and so
00:24:46
Speaker
But when we started studying plants, we see that they do the same things or maybe more than we do, but we didn't really figure out how to do that because they don't really have a, or we didn't really discover a central nervous nervous system. So there is a lot of questioning and discussion between scientists saying, The plants are intelligent or not intelligent. and I like how you say discussion. Let's be honest. They're fighting. They're fighting. okay They're yelling at each other from papers. I have gone through with my audience. I do plan plant consciousness commentary every Friday. I have gone through the papers from 2006
00:25:31
Speaker
to today and it's hysterical to see how these neurobiologists are fighting with the plant neurobiologists are fighting with the plant physiologist with the philosophers of plant like of plant sciences with the plants it's they're fighting they are not just having a discussion they're okay i mean it's quite easy when you don't define really what intelligence means Or when you change the definition based on who you're talking about, which is what neurobiology, human neurobiologists love to change the definition. As soon as you show them a plant does something, they change it and they're like, no, we weren't saying that. You have to have this. And it's like, a brain does not mean intelligent. Intelligence is a behavior, not an organ. Yeah, that's so that's what
00:26:28
Speaker
It's really fascinating to me the most that that connect and the dots of my research, that it's a complex systems. So really talking about stigma and how simple elements create something that is bigger than the sum of of the elements. And I think in places, so in front of us that because with humans we still have and we can still say that it's the brain that is saying, but in good place, you cannot. So yeah that is a very interesting point. And then I think I lost myself. Oh, it's okay. We were talking about how you got to the project. Yeah, yeah. So that's, some I worked there, studying that and reasoning about that and getting a lot of material. So it's very interesting ah to interview the the researchers
00:27:25
Speaker
and see what they think, what science is, and what art is. Because um ah many many most of the people think that art and science are very, very different approaches to to the reality. Maybe you're not, but I'm happy about that. But most of the people think that they are totally different. Actually, not not to me. they are two different ways to terrorize the world and to bring it back. So two different processes, but sir um i there there's um a statement by Albert Einstein that says that there a strong connection between art and science. i think i
00:28:24
Speaker
where so yeah they say he says the mysterious it is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle to art and through science so this is really it the mysterious is what we we try to grasp but science try to grasp it between theories of interiorizing the world and then putting outside theories that probably in the next 10 years they will be surpassed but we know that scientists know that that this is the best we know, and then probably it will change. And ah the artist with the same observer metabolize and then bring out ah what what they need to do. And they are also both are really social ah social terms. I mean,
00:29:23
Speaker
art exists between because somebody decides what is art and what is not. There is a community that is deciding that and also science is the same. So a they are both the expression of the society but also here I call it modern daughter of the society because ah they they are born from society but sometimes also they bring on that they think. So they also change and create new. So the this is why I think they are really two stronger ways to to tackle on a reality. And then out of it, basically I e ah create a theater show, basically a theater show that I was able to to perform ah first in a in Stockholm and then at the Venice Biennale
00:30:23
Speaker
and yeah man by And this is really a show where I try to go on with the research and so still trying to ah let people know about what what is happening also in the scientific world. We are studying that and discovering incredible things about the day the skills that plant has as well trying to a discover things while creating the performance. and So um that that is something also very, very important to me that while I create, I understand things. And while writing poetry or while developing a performance or the text or the movement, it gives me new insight.
Art's Role in Communicating Plant Sciences
00:31:20
Speaker
Well, the arts is is so important in this work, I think, because, I mean, I interview a lot of interspecies artists, right? People who are using and working with our artistic realms to express all of this, not just the scientific knowledge in the sense of what has already been shown, but also what we're at the limits of what we're exploring, which I think is extremely important, because art gives you a playground space. it's not confined to those rigid rules and it allows the exploration that we've somehow lost in science and a lot of scientific um you know laboratories and such are now because of funding because of the need to publish in order to get you know your tenure because of all of these other external constraints. We've forgotten that science should have ample room for you to fail and for you to explore new things and play in different directions and also
00:32:24
Speaker
time for you to apply the discoveries that you're making into other means, into other ways of exploring them, to see if it still holds water, to see if it's still valid when you take it outside of the artificial constrained view of the scientific laboratory and bring it out into a different medium. And this is where the arts can be so great, especially now that there is more of the scientific art that's happening. Because it's playful. It allows us to ah try new things. It's safe for the audience so we can bring in people who, if you were to give them a paper, would never read it.
00:33:08
Speaker
And if you were to try to explain it to them in a very dry way, they would be like, I don't understand. But then you put it into a performance, into a poem, into um ah something you watch or a painting, and all of a sudden they can feel it. And they can make decisions on what where where that goes for them. And they could start to explore things that they wouldn't allow themselves to explore in other ways. And I think that this is really the importance and the power of these artistic means, especially in the plant humanities and in the plant sciences, because the we are operating with, we're we're working with and collaborating with beings that are so different from us.
00:33:54
Speaker
you know Plants have, yes, they're all made of cells, but we don't see the cells, so most people don't think at the cellular level. They're thinking, like you said, brain, nervous system, hands, eyes. They're looking at the sense of smell. There's no nose, the the sense of touch, but there's no hands. And they forget that we ourselves also interpret things with Many different ways mechanisms it's not just that you see when your eyes are close are open you close your eyes and color still comes through and you can see things in your mind's eye and through your memories and there's just all these other mechanisms that we forget about ourselves but when you come in contact with the plants and especially if you do it in the safe environment of art.
00:34:39
Speaker
Now, all of a sudden, I walk away with a different definition of myself and the relationship that is now possible between myself and these other beings that, like you said, have been here with us all along and we've been blind to. So projects like this I think are so important and I love that I'm meeting more and more artists that are working and they're bridging that gap. They are studying, they are doing the research into the sciences and then they're taking that and they're playing with it for human consumption. Because you know, we humans are a bit dumb sometimes. We need things to be simple. We need them to be simple.
00:35:22
Speaker
yeah Yeah, of course, but you also need to experience it sometimes. That's why I really like to work with the small groups. Sometimes I even do theater show for one person at a time. I mean, for example, I organize some kind of forest bathing and I bring people to the wood and I let them observe And then I explained them how also plants are probably looking at them and listening to them smell of them and and let them stay after having heard about that and feel if something has changed in how they are staying there. And it really is quite a strong experience.
00:36:17
Speaker
It is. We forget. I mean, we we have these plants all around us. we we are all There's always a plant somewhere nearby, even sometimes you can't see because it's like the corner, the little moss that's growing in the corner there. And so we're always being observed where they're listening into all of our conversations. They're experiencing all of our emotions, all of the the chemicals that we're putting out in our body that we can't sense and they're picking up. So can feel that and vice versa. We are
00:36:51
Speaker
constantly taking in not just the oxygen but that oxygen is filled with all of those chemicals and pheromones and and you know vox that are coming of those volatile organic ah compounds that are coming into my body and there's this constant exchange with a being that we don't we don't even recognize half the time so I love the idea that that art the way that you're using both and performance art and poetry to really move that. Can you tell me a little more about this project Plant Stillness?
00:37:24
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, what do you want to know more? Well, what is it that the audience doesn't know? Who's listening in doesn't know what it is. Okay, so this is a theater show where I'm a kind of bird. and Kiki Koka Kiki Koka. This is a special bird. Say that it' again. Say it again. Kiki Koka Kiki Koka Kiki. Alrighty. This is a really rare bird that um can reproduce ah only on top of a special plant. But there's only one seed of these three left in the world.
00:38:13
Speaker
So this bird is having a nest on top of his head and with a small tree of this of these Patagonia sinensis that existing tree, that he is waiting and taking care of this tree because only when he can grow up he will be able to reproduce again. This is the the character that I invented for this. And, but I like to get into out from the character. So sometimes I'm just going to tell you how plants communicate sometimes getting back to the, to the work. And, uh, I also use, um, um, real, um, box. I mean, the, the, the substances that plants use, uh, to, to, to communicate, uh, where between themselves, uh, especially, you know, when,
00:39:10
Speaker
this smell of cut grass. When they cut a lot of grass, you can really smell it. You can smell it because they cut a lot of plants. And so it's very concentrated, but usually this is already there, but we cannot really smell. And these substances are just some chemicals. And they're used during the ah performance to make people smell it, i spray it in the room. So you really feel ah some probably never experienced before smells. And that is also interesting. But basically these are the substances that are um the main components of this ah grass smell. And actually we we like it very much usually. But if you really think about it, it's a quite terrible because
00:40:07
Speaker
He's basically hearing the scream of the grass that is being cut. So it's like a horror movie more than this relaxing feeling that we have, like point of view probably. I mean, why why plants do that if there's a why? Of course, we came back over from this question. But let's say that there's a purpose that maybe is not really a purpose. It will change the point of view. But in a mechanistic point of view, they do that because ah if other plants can smell this, they will know that they probably will be cut. So they will ah bring all the energy to the roots so they can re-flourish.
00:40:55
Speaker
have this a skill that we don't have to re-flourish when they are cutting too. ah We don't have that. We don't even have the capability, really, of thinking of our neighbors so much that when we scream, we scream for ourselves. We don't scream for everybody else to be like, hey, watch out. Make sure. you know there Only a few people do that. So we can even learn that part. Like, hey, the lawnmower is coming. Everybody bring in their energy. It's time to bring in the energy. Bring in the energy so you're all good.
00:41:32
Speaker
We don't do that. We don't do that. Sometimes we do. Come on, don't be so pessimistic. Sometimes we love each other. Sometimes we love each other. And anyway, these causalistic thoughts, it's also very, very limiting to me. I mean, if you think about evolution, of course, this happens and looks to work. So that's why it it stays. and Sometimes we think that the nature is the perfection. we Say, look at the perfection of the nature. But actually, what, for my studies, nature is not really working for perfection. It's working for the manual functionality. If something works, it goes on. So sometimes it's also great, some clumsy stuff. And sometimes it's some big failure.
00:42:30
Speaker
and restart from the scratch or almost. So it's really, it's working. So, but I don't don't know if there's some causality in this behavior of plants communicating that each other, the damage that's coming or also all the chorizala, sinuses, or any sinuses that we have with all the bacteria that we are. So basically, the reasoning behind that is that maybe it's not really all this causal effect, but a small connect of all of these together that is some kind moving and we are part of this net. And this is the the bigger picture.
Playful Artistic Exploration of Plant Relationships
00:43:24
Speaker
that I like you to interact somehow with the reason and that is also the conclusion ah where I get in this plant stiffness show. i like it and i find I find it really interesting because I do, I like, um and and and we're gonna take ah a second and we're gonna show a little bit. For for those of you that are watching on the video, I'm gonna play a little snippet of this plant still in this show so that you can get, first of all, it's hysterical. It's very funny to just see Antonio running around as this bird just just because. So I just enjoy your laugh. And even if you're not watching, at least you can hear it and it's worth it anyway, just to hear it. It's worth it.
00:44:05
Speaker
So let's take a second now to watch this video because yeah, it's again, it's worth it.
00:44:15
Speaker
Have you ever taken care of a plant? I'm learning many things.
00:44:30
Speaker
hidden by their own dead bodies roots secretly move underground looking for water sensing for water and listening
00:44:59
Speaker
to the thin trembles of soil listening to the thin trembles of soil vibrating water listening to the thin trembles of soil vibrating water
00:45:37
Speaker
And see what I mean? I told you it was worth it. It's like, this is the kind of stuff that I think also opens us. Again, I was talking about play and how important it is for us to feel playful because listening, it's in play that we experiment and we allow things to come in and you wonder, listening, does it listening, listening. What does this mean? And how does this work? And can it be different than the way I thought about it? And, oh, what can I do? Like if plants are doing this, or if these, these chemicals, these organic compounds that I'm feeling, right, these that's those smells are are something, what does that mean? And how is my body reacting to it? And what does that
00:46:16
Speaker
how can I change because of it? So I think it's fantastic to do shows like this that have you know all these different elements together and are also showing in a way that, again, is non-threatening. Some of the perils that are happening in our society, you have these birds, that relationship between the bird and the one tree, right? So if the tree disappears, the bird disappears. And if that bird disappears, I'm sure there's much more. And there's like all these relationships that we we just don't recognize. And I think that in working closer with the plants, they also show us these networks, like you're saying, right? These nets and these networks that are out there and how they mingle and cross and move onto many different aspects. And I think that's the answer for so many of the problems that we have in the world right now, is that if we recognize that we're part of this network, in Damanhur we do this project called the Global Tree Network, it's the orienting of the trees project,
00:47:15
Speaker
And it really is about stepping humanity back into this network connected to trees and plants in general. and um And so thinking of trees as antennas and thinking of like grasses and meadows as the supercomputers that process all this information and this data, and that if we were able to reconnect ourselves back into this network, can you imagine how different our lives would be? Can you imagine how different the world around us would be if we allowed for that ah multiple intelligences relationship and that that sort of communication back and forth with more fluidity? I mean, like you said, it's only been about 20, 25 years that we have been ah studying these these concepts and really looking at plant neurobiology and plant communication and Plant cognition and all these different elements and and we're only starting to look at it. So it's going to take us a while before we recognize and we're able to see the correlations, especially because, you know, we're s skeptical as humans. We we want you to prove it.
00:48:27
Speaker
Provets, kind of like you not wanting to say that plants decide. I say plants decide, okay? They have intelligence, they have memory, they have the ability to make decisions because they have to. They have to choose between A or B, and the decision isn't always the same, even if the factors are the same. So there's some decision-making mechanism there, and I find it so incredible that we continue to fight about this
Concluding Thoughts on Plant-Human Connections
00:48:53
Speaker
and I have my own theories as to why like around how much of our lives would change and some of it is scary right wood that I stand in my my desk is made out of wood my clothes is made out of cotton like if I believe that these plants are cognizant and intelligent
00:49:11
Speaker
ah um What does that mean? Am I allowed to cut them down? I mean, this really opens to big discussions and I think that this is where the arts, the work that you're doing is so important because we're not going to be able to deal with these types of big questions. directly. They're too scary. They would change too much about our lives. But if I do it in art in a playful way, then I might consider it and I might explore it and I might give myself permission to think about a world where plants are our our partners and our collaborators and they're working with us and sometimes they give their body to us.
00:49:53
Speaker
And sometimes instead they say, no, you shouldn't cut us down now. And so I think that these are really important and heavy questions from the way that humans deal with it, but that the arts gives us the opportunity to walk in it a little bit softer. Yeah, anyway, it takes time. It will definitely take time. We know that sometimes I feel like a bit discouraged about that, but then I say, okay, i I bring my my drop. and but Exactly. Exactly.
00:50:27
Speaker
it's there art you here This has been really a beautiful conversation. I'm super appreciative of all the things that you've brought. Are there any last words that you want to share with the audience? oh Well, I wasn't prepared to that. but um Hey, I'm here to keep you on your toes. Okay. Okay. So no, I don't, I don't have, I mean, if you can come to my shows and that's the point. I sometimes organize this course betting. Now I have one in 20 days in a festival in Italy. And in September, there will be in Padua where I live, there will be a big conference about plant cognition from the University of Padua.
00:51:19
Speaker
ah So I will be there also interviewing scientists and checking, also putting some doubts. And you and probably probably I will also perform a plant stillness, but I'm still arranging that. So I went up 100% sure. And that's it.
00:51:41
Speaker
support leading artist exactly so so i'm go to make sure i click all I'm going to put all the show notes, all the links to everything so that people can find you, they can find your work. I'm going to put it all into the show notes. So please go check out the show notes. And like Antonio said, support the artist, support the artist, go to shows, you know, become a Patreon, you know do whatever it takes. Even for us, come and join the Naturally Conscious Community, which, as you know, is the online ecosystem for all of these types of discussions, to see new artists, to be able to talk about plant-human relationships and all of its different nuances. And that's also the best way for you to support this podcast because
00:52:25
Speaker
over in the Naturally Conscious community. We have different membership levels that really allow you to participate and be a part of our book club and our writing group and master classes and all kinds of different information, as well as support all of this work that we're doing. So Antonio, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for this conversation. It has really been a pleasure to hear all of the different projects that you're working on. And I'm very much looking forward to hopefully being able to see you myself live at some point. Who knows? Maybe I'll come to my lab. in September. It's only a few hours away, so why not? Yeah, come on. Okay, nice. Thank you for the invitation, Tigriila. Congratulations for your project. Thank you. Thank you so much. So that's me, Tigria Gardenia. Remember, resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance.
00:53:16
Speaker
Thanks for listening to this episode of Reconnect with Plant Wisdom, intro and outro music by Steve Schulie and Poinsettia from the singing life of plants. So join me, Tigri La Gardenia, and my plant collaborators next time on Reconnect with Plant Wisdom.