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Ep.105 Solo Together with Penelope Mavor
45 Plays10 days ago
This conversation with Penelope Mavor took an unexpected—and beautiful—turn. We set out to talk about land-based leadership and Earth connection... and instead uncovered the deeper threads of solitude, sovereignty, and the paradox of being “solo together.”
Penelope and I reflect on our own practices, the myths of separateness, and why solitude isn't about isolation—it’s about reconnection.
This one’s for the sensitive leaders, the multipotentialites navigating inner noise, and anyone who’s forgotten that stillness is also a superpower.
// MY GUEST //
Penelope Mavor is the founder of nature-based leadership collaborative, Earth Converse supporting leaders step up for people and planet. With over 25 years of experience in sustainability and leadership development.
Topics Covered about nature-based leadership
➡️ “Solo Together” is a model for wholeness: sovereign AND interconnected.
➡️ Nature helps us attune without overwhelm—by softening into presence.
➡️ Real leadership starts with self—embodied, relational, and intuitive.
➡️ The land teaches in ways no human teacher can—through vibration and co-creation.
Chapters
00:00 - Intro & Guest Welcome
01:55 - What Is Earth Conversing?
06:16 - Redefining Sustainability & Leadership
24:11 - 🌳 Who Gives A Crap Ad Break
26:04 - Learning Attunement from Nature
31:06 - Nature as Co-Creator, Not Tool
36:17 - From Loneliness to Sacred Stillness
51:01 - Nature-Based Coaching in Practice
56:05 - Final Reflections: Independent and Interrelated
Resources Mentioned
🌱 Earth Converse by Penelope Mavor
🌱 What's Your Spirit Wild Plant?
🌱 Personalized mentorship with me and the Plants
Expanded Show Notes
☝🏽ReConnect with Plant Wisdom podcast Ancient and modern knowledge from biology to spirituality about the wondrous ways plants help you lead a Naturally Conscious life.
Subscribe here and on your favorite podcast player.
👉🏽 Join the Naturally Conscious Community to nourish human-plant relationships
// Get to Know Me, Tigrilla //
// Let's Work Together //
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Opening and Closing music by @Cyberinga and Poinsettia.
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Transcript
Introduction to Reconnect with Plant Wisdom
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Reconnect with Plant Wisdom. It's me, Tigre Agartenia. i ah um yeah See, lost for words, one of those super enthusiastic conversations that I just can't wait for you to hear and to share this with you.
00:00:23
Speaker
So Penelope Mavro is somebody that I spoke with ah a long time ago. that's ah I don't remember how I met her. I think I met her online. I really loved what she was doing. I wanted to get to know what she was up to, especially with her whole Earth Converse, which is the the name of her business and her work.
00:00:41
Speaker
and it's all about this conversation with the earth. And so she and i had a conversation not that long ago and decided that I just had to bring her on the podcast. I had to have you here. And we were all set to have a conversation about how this process that she goes through, this this understanding of being intimately expansive with the land in which she lives in and such.
00:01:03
Speaker
And now that we got into this conversation, we We touched on something else, which I think is what I love about doing this podcast. What I love about bringing to you all these conversations with these amazing individuals is the fact that we can...
00:01:21
Speaker
There's so much to talk about. Let's say it that way. There's so much out there.
Sustainability and Leadership Mindset
00:01:25
Speaker
There's so much amazingness that we can be sharing with each other that when we have these conversations and let the conversation organically, naturally unfold, what comes out is pure magic.
00:01:39
Speaker
So I cannot wait for you to listen to this amazing conversation with Penelope Maver. This is episode 105, Solo Together. solo together
00:01:53
Speaker
Welcome to Reconnect with Plant Wisdom. I'm your host Tigri Agardemia, nature-inspired mentor, certified life coach, and the founder of the Naturally Conscious Community. For over a decade, I've been known as a world ambassador for plant advocacy, working closely with plants to share their practical wisdom to help you consciously embody the elements of life that nourish your evolution.
00:02:14
Speaker
In this podcast, I delve into ancient and modern knowledge from biology to spirituality about the wondrous ways of
Penelope's Journey and Philosophy
00:02:21
Speaker
plants. Together, we'll explore how ecosystem thinking helps you overcome limiting beliefs, understand the true nature of relationships, and live an authentic, impactful life.
00:02:35
Speaker
Oh, Penelope, I'm actually extremely excited about this conversation because, you know, you and I have talked a few times. We have very similar paths and yet completely different paths.
00:02:46
Speaker
And I love that. And i'm I'm really excited about having the audience here, somebody who's doing similar work, but from a completely different angle. And I think that this gives just shows us kind of the richness of nature in and of itself.
00:02:58
Speaker
So before we dive into all the things that you're up to tell the audience who is Penelope. I am just so delighted to be here. Thank you for the opportunity. And I literally, I have got goosebumps about being here.
00:03:12
Speaker
And so Penelope, so I am a a Kiwi kid, a New Zealander who living in Spain. And I guess it's sort of like it's it's interesting from a, like I'm from an island to an island. I'm an island girl.
00:03:27
Speaker
I have all these, um, you know sort of like characteristics that are quite defining in terms of who I am. Like I'm an Aries, I'm a middle child, I'm a, you know, like all those sort of sort of cliches.
00:03:43
Speaker
I'm a seeker. I'm a person who has followed my
Sustainability as a Way of Being
00:03:50
Speaker
path, my heart. And I say that because I grew up in a little community in New Zealand and I observed i got yeah observed around me about the dynamics. it came from a farming agricultural place and I got curious about the impact of what farmers um and the dynamic of the economy, the social situation and it sounds sort of like
00:04:22
Speaker
and you know, like sort of grandiose that i thought about that as a young child. But it was really interesting for me. And then I studied sustainability. And then sustainability, I went into leadership. And so I've sort of followed my heart and my interest in that.
00:04:38
Speaker
And at a certain point, you know, how you you you do your own journey, of you do your professional journey and it's intertwined with your personal. So I am a seeker and I was sort of seeking answers and I was interested in my own potential.
00:04:54
Speaker
And so I became, from a sustainability, I realized also that it was about the leadership, like leadership, the leaders had to talk to each other.
00:05:05
Speaker
sustainability is not an intellectual exercise leadership is not an intellectual exercise it has to be felt and seen and embodied and so i um I felt that myself that I had to like if I wanted to be mindful if I wanted to be present with the world um I had to be I had to get on the cushion I had to be um ah practice that meditation and um it was it was a deep part of being in Italy actually and in Dhamma Atala if you know it and then I um and then um yeah that led me to then deepening my relationship with the actual earth and
00:05:49
Speaker
and then as it goes on, I'm, you know, I've created my leadership offering related to this mindful whole systems, you know, sustainable coaching way.
00:06:02
Speaker
And that's, that's what I do. I work with leaders around that. And yeah, i love this. And I want to go, I want to first, first and foremost, touch on something you just said that I think we don't talk about enough, which is the fact that in many um, in many people's minds, the word sustainability is based on,
00:06:23
Speaker
a type of practice, right? I'm supposed to do these things and these are the boxes I'm supposed to check off and this makes something sustainable. But I like the way that you say it, which is, you know, sustainability really is a completely different thing. I mean, in order to really create a sustainable society, a sustainable product, a sustainable world, it isn't a label you tack on to something else.
00:06:44
Speaker
It's a mindset. It's ah ah a practice almost.
Self-Leadership and Collective Action
00:06:47
Speaker
It's almost like a ah way of being. That is, I embody sustainability, not as a catchphrase, but more as something that I am.
00:06:59
Speaker
And therefore, by being it, the things I produce naturally come from that. And so I'd love to hear a little bit more of how sustainability kind of if embodying that mindset, which it sounds like is the way that you look at it. Also, how did that take you into the idea that, oh, wait a minute, that means that leadership is kind of the same thing.
00:07:20
Speaker
Yeah, great. Because I do, you know, like sustainability, you know, that definition of social, economic and environmental, you know, like it's a whole systems perspective, isn't it? And so therefore, I think it is like are our, you know, with that our own wholeness.
00:07:36
Speaker
You know, how do we integrate those parts of us, you know, the wounded child and, um you know, or the wild adult or the, you know, adapted, you know, adolescent, you know, like how do we how do we do that? And so it became clear, like, it you know, when you sit in, so I would seat sit in sustainability meetings or partnership meetings and you can see that disconnect that people are aren't speaking from their truth.
00:08:03
Speaker
And they aren they are, you know, it feels like um sometimes some meetings were just like little adolescents, were just immature children batting ideas or opinions, or not actually not even opinions, you know? And so you you can get a feeling that actually what we have to do is focus on on how do we lead ourselves sustainably?
00:08:31
Speaker
Yeah. And that, like you say, it's got it like it's quantum physics, isn't it? It's just sort of like that inner and ah an outer relationship. It's got to manifest in a more healthy way.
00:08:42
Speaker
um we We turn up differently. We see the world differently, don't we? Yeah. And I think that this is one of the, ah when I, when I first started, one of the first programs that I put together was called the the naturally conscious leadership group, which still is part of my inner circle of, you know, clients and students who are kind of the leaders of tomorrow. But I found that because I don't work in the corporate setting anymore, the word leadership people were afraid of it. Like, it's almost like they think it doesn't apply. And for me, the reason I had called it leadership was because it's about self-leadership,
Integrating Personal Growth in Corporate Settings
00:09:16
Speaker
right? It's like being the the naturally conscious leader to me is I lead my life. I lead the type of life that I, so it was lead as in like, yes, a leader, but also lead as in I am leading a life.
00:09:29
Speaker
um that is in that naturally conscious, sustained, regenerative, all those things. I embody it so much that by its own kind of nature, it spills out of me into the things I do and it guides the things that I'm doing.
00:09:45
Speaker
And that kind that really close relationship with the land, with the the beings of nature and everything helped me be that naturally conscious leader. Wow. It was so hard to explain. It still is.
00:09:56
Speaker
but Because everybody thinks that a leader is like the business person who's standing up there. I'm like, you can be a leader just, I don't know, like in your family, you can be a leader, you know, when you're in the middle of a grocery store and, you know, something and the way that you do things shows that you're a leader. It's a personal way of being, not not this title that that that only applies to certain people. so how do you find...
00:10:25
Speaker
you know Do you find that you may mainly work with, is it easier for a corporate world to then bring that into their lives? Or even for the corporate people, that are they still seeing it as two separate things?
00:10:36
Speaker
Yes, I think it is two separate of things. I had this conversation just the other day because I'm doing a spring reset and a friend and a friend said to me, and she knows me well, she says, but I'm not a leader. She she absolutely is.
00:10:48
Speaker
but and But it was so interesting. It's such a loaded, misunderstood term, isn't it And I think we probably do need ah a new term because, you know, and particularly I see in Spain where people like, oh, they think of Franco or Italy, it's Mussolini with his Trump. but You know, we hear the... end And so, um and I'm so used to it, like working 25 years with leaders. I love the word leader, you know, ah for those reasons of self-leadership.
00:11:14
Speaker
And I work with um an organization called Impact International. And so that, a global outdoor experiential organization. And they have a lovely strapline. It was like, you know, leadership is not a special type of person or a special type of role.
00:11:30
Speaker
It's a special type of action, you know, one where you, you know, it comes from noticing and deciding and the courage to act. And so so I think in definitely, of course, the corporate world understands leadership more so.
00:11:45
Speaker
But it is interesting that, that We don't, and I think generally, we don't, we give away our authority, we give away our agency, we give away our sovereignty.
00:11:58
Speaker
And I think that that's from our childhood, you know, that we refer to the adult or the parent, we go to our teachers, we're constantly looked out for, you know, for that great man theory or the great person that will save us.
00:12:10
Speaker
And, you know, it's a daily act. You know, was it James Hollis said something about like, you know, to reclaim our sovereignty is a daily task upon the soul. And I believe that.
00:12:21
Speaker
And I thought, why wouldn't you be interested in that? Why wouldn't you be? With the corporate world, I don't know if you noticed this. Like, I know notice now that leadership development is a different thing. Like, so many people in the corporate world they are outside their lives. They are doing ceremonies. They are part of your nature connection.
00:12:45
Speaker
You know, they are they are doing qigong or yoga. You know, in the past they didn't. but and And it's interesting that then they don't bring in those practices and that self-leadership into their wholeness,
00:12:59
Speaker
you know, for their corporate world. They hi they they hide part of themselves. And so therefore, those going back, it's not sustainable. it's The decisions they're making are not connected.
00:13:12
Speaker
They're not coming from an embodied, grounded place. this this is a i mean I'm so glad that you said that because this is the thing that we're seeing across the board. i was you know In multiple interviews that I've done even recently and like these conversations that are coming out is the fact that for certain generations of people, um especially in some ways, like there's like ah ah a a certain generation that still feels like they're not allowed to bring the principles that are changing their lives. They're the things that outside of the office environment, especially for those that still work in kind of more traditional or structured business models.
00:13:51
Speaker
um They feel like these things that I'm doing that are helping me become a better person, I'm not allowed to consciously or maybe explicitly bring them into the work that I do, that you do. And I
Enhancing Leadership through Nature Connection
00:14:05
Speaker
see this disconnect all the time where You know, their connection to plants. I was i was using the example and with a previous guest.
00:14:14
Speaker
I was having this conversation about ah Natasha Myers is research when she she's a plant anthropologist. And when she was doing research into understanding how do plants, and I mean, how do scientists incorporate kind of the idea of plant communication at all? Like, do they feel like the plants are actually communicating with them? And they found that the younger generation struggled to accept that because they had to prove that they were scientists.
00:14:41
Speaker
They had to prove that they were using measurable actions and like they were doing the things according to what was necessary to get results. Where older scientists, in particular, those with tenure or in very, very established roles could admit that maybe what is I'm calling intuition is actually coming from the plants. Like maybe it is the plants inspiring me to find my results. And I think that's exactly what we're talking about. It's, you know, the feel that you need to have this separate because I can't quantify entirely.
00:15:11
Speaker
With a measurable number and statistic, I can't give you the, if I talk to plants, I'm more relaxed. And then that leads to cortisol levels that drop that then leads to this. and i have to give you such a long thing to show it's okay for me to bring it into the, you know, into the boardroom.
00:15:28
Speaker
And it's like, why? that just seems so silly. and it seems counterintuitive because then again, like you said, you give away your sovereignty. It's like I give away my ability to be a leader in whatever role I'm in even if I'm an individual contributor, because I have separated out all these parts of me that are the things that help bring a better, more holistic, more connected, more healthier probably way of doing business.
00:15:58
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Isn't it incredible that we're still there? We're still there. and But I got excited. I don't know you about the telepathy tapes. Have you seen that? Oh, yeah. Oh, my goodness. And she talks about the materiality of science. And actually, I would have thought that you know it was actually the older scientists would set would be more but you know material. The younger people, yeah, there's much intuition, but it's interesting. you know But we're we're so... um Well, it's, you know, our mind is decolonized yeah colonized in a way, isn't it? And so we have, you know, or we get very rigid. That's but that's part of my interest with with the plants about the teachers of the of rewilding myself, you know, and seeing it differently.
00:16:43
Speaker
um And I think we, yeah, we have to, We have to challenge that. And and and and I guess people, there's something about people not feeling safe, isn't it? like is, so much.
00:16:55
Speaker
It's so, in their nervous system or not trusting that or definitely in the corporate world, I can't bring, I can't talk about my yoga because I'll be ridiculed. Like it's something that people aren't sharing.
00:17:08
Speaker
and And I remember my mum going off to yoga, like in the nineteen seventy s and she never taught us. and know um But I think she wanted to also keep it sacred. There was something there. So there's all different reasons.
00:17:20
Speaker
But the more that we can bring in this wholeness, I mean, what a gift to the world we, you know, like, and isn't that interesting? I mean, I'm curious about my own potential and my own wholeness and what's possible out of that.
00:17:35
Speaker
yeah Absolutely. And and you know to understand that we are more than just this one analytical mind. I think we're we're so only starting now to weave in the possibilities that our intuitive, more collective side brings a lot ah to the table. In other words, it it allows me to be a better leader using that, you know, going back to that word, the fact that leadership is not about being able to statistically dissect everything and then set a direction based on some arbitrary set of parameters that society has deemed
00:18:13
Speaker
useful. On the contrary, it is being able to read the room, understand the emotional landscape that others are experiencing. You know, it's not about going to yoga because it makes me more stretchy and therefore it's better, but it's about, I walk out of yoga and my mind is more clear and I could, you know, I can actually relax and then I can see things and I, I become softer in the way that I talk because I feel more comfortable and embodied. I feel safer yeah also to have like like more expansive conversations.
00:18:45
Speaker
And I think, you know, we're starting to see the acceptance of it from the yoga perspective. But I think it's funny that the nature connection And here I want to get into more of the stuff that you're doing right now.
00:18:57
Speaker
I feel like it's almost where yoga was at the time of your mother, yeah where, you know, yoga at the time of your mother was this like, she knew she was getting more than just the flexi body.
00:19:08
Speaker
And it's moving. But it was, you know, still from the perspective of the external world, especially, you know, in our Western cultures, it was exercise. That's the reason I'm doing it. Yes. Yes. And I think nature connection for so many people is kind of at that stage where it's like, I do it for exercise or I do it for this. And we do it a lot more like, oh, there's so much more you're getting out of it. Like this is really down. Really? And so many like leaders will say, you know, I go out to nature and they'll actually go out, you know, their holidays are nature based.
00:19:41
Speaker
And it's like, so where is that? So that we intuitively go out there, but the depth, you know And i mean i i shared out i could I can tell my story about my own mission around intimately expansive relationship with the world. like it's you know like how The invitation is there for for us to pay attention go deeper and to feel into that wholeness with nature. And
Earth Converse and Co-Creation with Nature
00:20:05
Speaker
people are and people are are very, can be very private. Like, and even the shame of like hugging a tree, like.
00:20:14
Speaker
of not being able to explain why you're doing it. i so much of it is that these people, I feel like leaders think that they're supposed to be able to explain everything. They're supposed to lead by by, telling you what to do. That's the old model, right? Telling you what to do and being able to explain why you're doing it.
00:20:33
Speaker
And when you're hugging a tree or when you're out sitting and you're like, I'm getting answers to questions I didn't even know I was asking. Therefore, the answers still don't have words. But there's a part of me that knows that there's an answer in there now.
00:20:46
Speaker
How the hell do I explain that to my team? Yeah. And it's like, you don't have to. You don't have to. You don't have to. I think that's probably why your mother didn't tell you her yoga. She couldn't explain it. Yeah.
00:20:59
Speaker
Yeah. It's something you just have to do for your to to yourself. And I think that that's the struggle. Yeah. that we sometimes have and even filling our programs and our courses or our and our coaching is because I feel like we still struggle with the fact of how do I explain to you in a way something you're going to feel in your unique way that is going to change your life. But I can't put it into words yet because it's an experience that's much more...
00:21:27
Speaker
about embodiment how do you do that yes and and part of it is like that's you know and part of it is for for them to find out what that feeling is so therefore you can't tell you know you can't tell them you know like it's it's impossible and also yeah because you yeah it's Yeah, we'll find our way, you know, and the right people turn up, you know? Right. you know yeah Absolutely. so So on that note, I find it very interesting that you called, you know, your work Earth Converse. Yeah. Because it is about kind of not conversing necessarily and like, let me put words to it perfectly.
00:22:05
Speaker
So can you share somewhat like what what for you is that conversation, that conversing that's happening? Oh, thank you. I did. it's ah It was the name came from a conversation on the land. So i i have learned the practice of walking with the land, you know, my my experience of deepening my own connection with myself and the earth. So i walked the land that was like, you know, what needs to come through me? What is it that I'm offering? And this this earth converse came and it was like, it felt really obvious. It was like,
00:22:38
Speaker
yeah, I'm learning to have a different relationship. And, um and so it's like, we're, we're, life is constantly inviting us into a conversation with the breeze or the, you know, the, even like going past a plant, you know, like on my walk and you just, and it, and it brushes you.
00:22:58
Speaker
And it's like, there's the invitation, there's, there's the pause. And I, and so I think, so I've just like, like going back to that sustainability thing that I can help leaders ah really feel into their own nature connection, their own embodiment, their help them with their own wholeness.
00:23:16
Speaker
So therefore they do make better decisions for people and planet. And so my earth conversing is like how are the the unlimited ways that life is asking us to to come into communion.
00:23:28
Speaker
communion and conversation. So, you know, everyone has their own name for it, but I call it, you're like earth conversing. And, and, um and so, yeah, like people go, I went to a tree and I didn't, you know, didn't have a, comp you know, it didn't say anything to me. And it's like, that's the thing. It's learning that the conversation comes in different ways. Those feelings you're talking about, those sensations, um those images, it talks. And so how can we learn to,
00:23:57
Speaker
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00:25:46
Speaker
So let's save trees and support a cleaner world one roll at a time. And it takes time. It's one of those, it's a slow, I think if you, so if you savor it as a slow progression, as a slow journey, it could be so enriching because as you're learning how others communicate, you know, the land, the beings of the land from the smallest ant or to, you know, the bird in the air and to the tree or the grass, you
00:26:18
Speaker
Each one has their own sort of way. And as I enter into that relationship with these different beings and I start to receive in whatever way that look, I also recognize that I am i am receptor. I have so much more.
00:26:35
Speaker
and And more ways to understand. And like you said, that intimate, expansive experience expands me in ways that I then take into a meeting space.
00:26:50
Speaker
and And I'll say it this way. i think there are still people, especially highly sensitive people that feel ah worried that doing this type of work and bringing it into their office space, is they're going to be too sensitive. In other words, it's it's going to all feel like a bombardment of the senses.
00:27:06
Speaker
But in my I don't know about for you, and I'm super curious as to what you see, but in my experience, In doing this with the safety of the land, with the beings of the land, with my natural expression, I actually find that the plants, all of these you know other kin, teach me attunement in a non-mental way that no healer no human healer, no human describer could ever teach me attunement.
00:27:38
Speaker
In other words, it's like they because I have to attune in order to hear them, I have to play with my senses in order to hear the smallest vibration of an ant to, you know, a big imposing tree to a windstorm that I have to like sit inside of and feel.
00:27:59
Speaker
i I learn in ah in a safe way, kind of like a child playing, yeah how to attune.
Nature-Based Practices in Leadership
00:28:06
Speaker
And therefore, when I'm sitting in a boardroom, it makes it almost easier for me to tune this negative energy coming from this guy over here. And this girl that's really feeling frustrated, I can tune into her, but I can also like send her some softness.
00:28:21
Speaker
And this one over here, you know like i I don't know. i feel... like it actually makes it easier rather than making us more raw. Yes. that make sense?
00:28:33
Speaker
No. So yes, it's a bodily yes. love it You know, because I think that, you know, when we go out to the land and I love this idea, you know, we it's the pure source, isn't it? Like a human will always have their own judgments or doubt. You know, there's something there's, yeah of course, wise folk out there.
00:28:52
Speaker
But um I think that we're and when we're in relationship with the plant, with the tree, with the bird, and we can do that, it is that there's a knowing, isn't it? I love this attunement. you know Our body relaxes.
00:29:05
Speaker
And we we we feel connected, don't we? We feel a sense of belonging. And if we can bring that into then our day-to-day human interactions,
00:29:16
Speaker
um And we can remember that. Our body remembers that. think This is the experiential way, isn't it? and i um and so um And I just love the yeah the the the subtleties of that.
00:29:31
Speaker
Yeah. And how it's, it doesn't have to go. And again, going back to one of the difficulties is that these aren't things that you teach by like, take these four steps. That's not it.
00:29:42
Speaker
And, and it's a learning then from there, how do you do it anywhere? Like when I'm in sitting in a, in a meeting in a conference room and I'm like, I'm going to connect to that tree, that plant that has been sitting there in the corner, help me attune to so-and-so who's yelling at me right now and help me find I can find the right way through this. And I find that that that expansion just sort of, it it sits with you.
00:30:04
Speaker
The the episode um episode, I think it was 98 of my podcast, was all about all the different ways I've, up until that time, that I had been learning to to connect and to receive messages from plants. And how much...
00:30:21
Speaker
that has helped me better understand people. Because now, like you said, i i feel a person with the whole body, but I don't just take in you know, their difficulties. i can, I can sit with them and hold that space so much better because there's so much of me that's more open and much more of me. That's also much more compassionate. Like I'm more in tune with myself.
00:30:46
Speaker
I'm comfortable with who I am. i could, see you match you where you are. I don't have to take on your stuff. Like, I think that that, that expansion that happens is, is so helps us so much in our day to day life. And that's, and it's a shame when we cut that off, and we don't allow that to come into the other things that we do.
00:31:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And then, you know, the co-creation, you know, like how we're co-creating. And I learned this sort earlier and with VisionFast. So that's my background in terms of really understanding that life is a mirror and this deep.
00:31:21
Speaker
deep rites of passage, this deep way of being in ceremony with the land, you know, and work from like Bill Plotkin and Soulcraft and, you know, just experiencing, experiencing in that way. And oh give us, give us more details. We want to know what that is. How does that work? Tell me more. Tell me more.
00:31:39
Speaker
So just this, um so through meditation um and like being a plant, you don't like have to be stationary and rooted and just stay and be in my wholeness. So learning about that. And then I got more nuance with actually life.
00:31:54
Speaker
So my going out to nature and I'm in New Zealand, but outdoors outdoors is really important to me. so But i became it became a more subtle one settle relationship.
00:32:04
Speaker
you know but I noticed more. I was quieter. I was... i I didn't march through the landscape. i walked slowly or I sat, you know, all these sorts of things.
00:32:15
Speaker
And just, and then bit by bit, then like Bill Plotkin, he's Animus Valley. So he's from the Ecotherapy, beautiful writings. I actually, it was a bit of pod when I had my podcast, Earth Converse podcast about our conversations and relationships with the earth, he came on and I was just like, oh,
00:32:35
Speaker
I'm done. It's wonderful. um But just he calls it soul craft. So this is, you know, how we are um the natural co-creation with life and all the ways we can deepen our connection.
00:32:48
Speaker
And, and so, and then from, and then I went into like the school of lost borders. So they are a rights of passage organization in the um America.
00:33:00
Speaker
um, They come from, so like studied indigenous wisdom and ancient human practices that doing what humans have always done, you know, going out solo, typically fasting for connection, inspiration and belonging.
00:33:15
Speaker
So I did um some vision quests with them. And I also was a, I've done mirroring, mirroring around that, like life is a mirror, you know, nature is a mirror.
00:33:28
Speaker
nature's metaphor and you know satin ceremony and so that's sort of my tradition that's where i a lot of the earth conversing comes from in fact earth converse came out from a vision visit my first vision fast so i i learned about the co-creation like i remember on that vision fast is that you know like i grabbed a cactus um and well it actually invited me to grab it actually because I was sort of like yeah you know we are not violent with plants only if they ask um only if they ask exactly and I picked out and I just like had this these it was sort of like I picked out of all like the beliefs and all the things that were holding me back you know and so that sort of
00:34:14
Speaker
way of being with that plant, you know, with that. And so how do we co-create? So I think that anything like we that that becomes interesting, you know, um or whether we're making an infusion or um foraging that I've learned about, you know, just even that is a like a co-creation with the wildness. So Yeah, I think that this ah the more I work in these, you know, work with people, the more I have these comp types of conversations, the more I realize that everything is a co-creation. every every every There is no such thing...
00:34:50
Speaker
First of all, there is no such thing as an anyway, because human cells are only like 10% of my body. The rest of it is all microbes and everything else. So it's like, there is no such thing as as in, you know, this piece. So everything is a co-creation, right? I'm co-creating with my own body, with the microbes in my body, with all the other entities that live with me. And then
Solitude, Community, and Authentic Leadership
00:35:13
Speaker
anything I do is really a co-creation. And I think if we were to step in,
00:35:17
Speaker
into that in everything we did, if we really leaned deeper into it and not as a thing of reducing or taking away my sovereignty, but on the contrary, about seeing my sovereignty more as an expression through that co-creation process. Yes.
00:35:33
Speaker
Oh, can you imagine just how much easier life would be? Like, wow it's it would give us back that opportunity to recognize that a sacrifice is not something negative like we've been. But on the contrary, it's this beautiful thing where I say, i am giving up this piece because I feel like this greater thing is so much more important.
00:35:55
Speaker
And therefore, it's easy for me to just Let that other thing go in order to embody or be a part of this other thing. And I feel like that's another one of those elements that working in that intimacy with myself as a being of nature starts to become easier. just it just flows from you. Mm-hmm.
00:36:19
Speaker
And ah how how much how much nicer, like, can we, I don't know, would life be if we were to sort of live in that embodied space? Yes. And what, like, the ideas and the creativity coming from that?
00:36:32
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, and incredible. I do. I call it solo together. Like, I really believe that is a that is the human story. Like, how do I be my individual self in my earth suit, my ecological mission, my gifts to the world and in relationship?
00:36:48
Speaker
you know, in relationship, like you say, with the microbes or my partner or that tree or the world. And I think it also scales up. It's like ah Spain's relationship with Europe or Europe's relationship with the world, like solo together, like where's our sovereignty and where's our connection. And, you know, and given that we are these, you know, we're all one, but we also are in this little casing, um you know, so what is that?
00:37:17
Speaker
I mean, Yeah, I get very excited about that. That is super. I mean, i love that that idea of solo together. i am when i When I created the Reconnect with the Plant Kingdom, which was like the first big plant-related course that I created that's inside of the naturally conscious community, there is an entire module on ah individual independent interrelated. Oh, yes. Because that's it.
00:37:40
Speaker
Yes, that's yeah principle It's like no tree is ever – there's a beautiful article on – I reference it in that module, which is, I think it's an Aeon article, and it's beautifully written and talking about how no, in this case, they're using a tree as the example, but No tree is ever individual.
00:38:04
Speaker
And yet no tree is only, you know, interrelated. it has to be both simultaneous. You could have two identical, you know, biologically identical starting trees like seeds planted in one tree. I don't know, a foot or, you know, three feet, a meter away from one another.
00:38:22
Speaker
And the two trees that grow will be completely different, even though the entire DNA structure is, you know, and all the structure that that is the base is the same. Why? Because Each one has slightly different wind, a slightly different sunlight, you know, nourished in a different way. They're passing things between each other. They're passing with different beings of the forest. Like it's always interrelated and yet individual. so that whole idea of solo together, i think, is how different would it be if we grew up?
00:38:54
Speaker
being told that you are always an interrelated individual. And if you always think of any project, it's like, okay, anything you're working on, whether it's your own school homework or something else is always solo together.
00:39:09
Speaker
ah Can you imagine how different our lives would be in the way that we interact with one another? Yeah. And I'm sure other cultures do. I think at Western world, you know, part of us is is that great disconnection, but I'm sure there are communities and ways of ways of being that that's true, you know, but and and and it's it's part of our Western journey, you know, to get out of our logical, you know, rational minds to to bring back that wholeness of our intuitive selves, you know.
00:39:38
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. and and to And to want it, like to recognize that it is something that is part of being a member of, you know, society is the fact that I am always interrelated and individual or, you know, always doing my own thing.
00:39:55
Speaker
And still together and realizing you're never alone. i think it would really help to deal with some of the loneliness that we experience as individuals, because that loneliness, I mean, I was just reading that.
00:40:09
Speaker
What was it? I don't remember if it's in Japan or such. I mean, the loneliness levels are getting to be. A big, big problem for many societies that that individuals feel completely and utterly alone. They don't have those supportive networks. But more importantly, we don't even know how to create them anymore.
00:40:25
Speaker
And I think that programs and the stuff that that we're talking about, the things that you do, for example, ah in addition to the leadership benefits but I mean leaders oftentimes traditional leaders historic leaders feel really lonely yeah being a leader is extremely lonely in the way that society has painted it of you know you're the direction seeker you're the you know the one that sets every these things it's really a lonely world yeah yeah I i feel you know I feel that I heard I've heard that from you know leaders you know because they they yes it's sort of this false sense of
00:41:00
Speaker
um like the the echo chamber a little bit. um I reckon in terms of, I've got a yeah lots of ideas about loneliness because I'm a single woman, I've been single for a long time and I came to, in fact in fact the land here in Pushpunyant in Mallorca was really healing for that because I came to a little pueblo, I don't speak Spanish, and and Still don't really.
00:41:25
Speaker
and but And it was like, if I'm going to be alone in my life, if I'm going to be this crone, you know, like, and I'm i'm an independent woman, it's there's freedom is my incredible value to me.
00:41:36
Speaker
And I'm just but I'm going to go and test it out. I've got an opportunity. I don't know anybody, but I'm going to the land and I'm going to sit with that alone, you know, what that means. And this is the thing I so believe in a solitude practice. In fact, I've just promoted a 24-hour solo together as ah as sort of a counteraction to the chaos.
00:41:56
Speaker
Because I think that actually to be in community, we need to be better at at our our own solitude. Like to learn to discern those you those those voices um or to to step away from the drama and the distractions and the demands and go inner to and understand our own inner in a world and um you know listen to our own intuition and and voice and knowing um i think that's and so i believe i absolutely believe in solitude so i did an like an eight month experiment on the land but it was you know sitting with that ah with that oak sitting is sitting with the moss you know city is sitting just like and and and um and
00:42:42
Speaker
I just, I came absolutely to peace with that. Like I, because I think the natural world, I think loneliness, it's sort of, you can't be lonely if you if you, if you don't, if you, if you like the company you're in So, you know, like liking ourselves and feeling that oneness, like even now, you know, you can breathe the air, like the the natural world is there being, supporting you.
00:43:12
Speaker
like plants, you know, weeds will come up very close to you. They're there. Like you're not you're not alone. Right. You know, and the drink or some people talk about, you know, with the natural world being transpersonal resources.
00:43:26
Speaker
I don't kind of like that term. But it's sort of like, yeah, there lots of friends out there. There's lots of wisdom out there. And if we can only tap into that, even if you're in a an apartment in the middle of Tokyo in a little cubicle,
00:43:40
Speaker
There is nature there. You know, there is life there. Right. I love that. And I love that it, I can see it both ways. Cause I could see it exactly the way you were just describing in the fact of, you know, you're never alone. There is all this. And I also feel like doing something of this way. I've, I've also had, um I live in community.
00:44:01
Speaker
So yeah like you said, those mirrors are always there, but the more you are in that in tune. and And I love the idea of that, giving yourself space and time and nature, right.
00:44:14
Speaker
I had another client of mine who was doing that. She just very slowly, just complete full immersion.
Role of Retreats in Personal Growth
00:44:20
Speaker
And I think when you're with people, if you do it from a place of, as you said, expansion, connection, being in myself, that peace, once that peace arrives, nobody can take that peace away from you.
00:44:33
Speaker
I could be sitting in the middle of a carnival, with people yelling and I could find that peace. I remember the first time that I ever, you know, um, was able to meditate in a crowded space. i was in the airport in,
00:44:52
Speaker
Pennsylvania.
00:44:56
Speaker
and was waiting for my flight it was utter chaos it was one of those days that was just x x like exponentially chaotic in the airport kids screaming, you know, all kinds of sounds. And I remember sitting there and I just leaned back into my chair, comfortable kind of meditative position, closed my eyes, took some nice deep breaths and ended up who knows where,
00:45:24
Speaker
And the only thing I heard was when they called my flight. Like I could hear through all of the chaos, everything quieted down and I could hear them calling my flight. And I've I've been working on expanding that kind of thinking about it from the perspective of nature of when I go and I spend time in that That sort of notwithstanding birds and this and everything that's around me, being able to enter into that personal silence.
00:45:52
Speaker
And I've been testing that. How do i get myself there? How do I feel completely connected? i wasn't disconnected from what was happening in the airport. On the contrary, I was so connected that I didn't need to hear it.
00:46:04
Speaker
Other parts of me were registering the things that are necessary. And I do think that that is... the more we allow ourselves to to to and embrace that natural side of ourselves and trust that our bodies know how to do things that we have forgotten as humans intellectually how to do and allow our natural mirrors, you know, the the grass and and all of the different beings that are around us to kind of remind us, to help us get there, to be like, how do I learn, you know, what it means to understand a vibration from
00:46:40
Speaker
you know, the ant, or how do I understand how to recognize humidity from this type of plant? Or how do I find water like a moss? You know, how do i how do I connect into these elements that you have all continued to expand on? And I have atrophied in order to really feel that completeness and that, that part of myself, that's so much more than what I think it is today.
00:47:07
Speaker
That's extraordinary. That's like, And that's a superpower, isn't it? And I think that, you know, where I love the Thich Nhat Hanh, where, you know, the Vietnamese, um in terms of being a refugee, like with this so much chaos, how can I center myself if one person just centers themselves and, you know, and come into that rootedness of themselves and that, you know, like the rip, literally the ah changes, changes the vibration. I mean, it's just quantum physics, isn't it? But, you know, plants teach us that they, um,
00:47:36
Speaker
they are that They are the ultimate teacher of that. um Yeah, that rootedness is a perfect way of saying it. You know, once you remember that plants can't run away, like we as humans have atrophied all those things because we've run away. A plant can't run away. they've had to learn how to do that.
00:47:54
Speaker
Yeah. You know, they've had to learn how to adapt. Exactly. Like, yeah. It's funny, both naturally our bodies, good for those who aren't watching, we both naturally moved our bodies in that way because exactly, that's those are the pieces that really tap into that.
00:48:10
Speaker
How do you... share that with others today? Like I know you do retreats. I know you have clients. I know you have multiple programs. How do you, cause I know I struggle sometimes. Like I think long-term I've decided that, you know, I love doing coaching and and mentorship because I love that I can work over a long time scale. I love having the naturally conscious community, which is more of a membership model that has this long expansive, but I don't get the benefit of the you know, taking a person into a full immersion into a natural environment like you would with a retreat.
00:48:43
Speaker
I only get to do that every once in a while when people ask me to put together a retreat to Dom and her, which then I love doing
Coaching and Nature-Based Programs
00:48:49
Speaker
it. So how how do you find, how do you take people through these journeys? Oh, lovely. I love your ecosystem, what you've, what you've created though. I mean, it's a, it's like abundant.
00:49:00
Speaker
yeah I get a little bit overwhelmed, but it's just abundance and, you know, just, It's such a you're so living that, such a role model um yeah piece. For me, yeah, so i um I do work, you know, with the corporate world. I have, um and so, and my, I vary experientially. So anything that I do is experientially and I've got an out, you know, an outdoor um approach. So it's sort of like how I will, that's how I just work with them and that's what they engage me for.
00:49:31
Speaker
I work with um an Argonaut, which is a global conscious community, and this is in trust circles. So they're online and that's like um every month working with them. And of course, we always hear that when we, when we come face to face, you know, it is the, it is the human connection on the land, you know, just how that changes, I mean intimacy, you can build intimacy, of course incredible, we're so lucky on the virtual world, but there's nothing like being on the land together, and you know, and nervous systems, we relax, we connect, we smell, it's just, it's a different experience, and so I love working with individuals here, um or groups of people on the land in Majorca, so, and I've, you know, like
00:50:21
Speaker
I walk the land myself every day i'm out there. So it feels, you know, it feels, I don't know, aligned. And so love like either the outdoor coaching, like people, you know, using nature as a metaphor, you know, you've got a challenge and we go uphill or we see, you know, um or you see paths and there and in the in the in the in the forest and we, you know, and sort of like when they're in a dilemma or,
00:50:51
Speaker
feeling depressed, find a depression, you know, like just that that playfulness, um you know, what is, what, you know, what, which plant is taking your attention, is inviting you into a conversation, and, you know, and so then helping people make meaning of them, and so that sort of individual things, I also have, I have a thing called solo together, which I, it's like a micro rite of passage, a micro vision quest,
00:51:18
Speaker
where we invite people to disconnect from their day to day and spend just two hours in solitude, which is phenomenal for so many people. And it's like, how can, what are you noticing?
00:51:30
Speaker
You know, and then, and then we go into then circle, you know, and talk about that. And I mirror back the stories that's, that's been wonderful. So, and I have all nature connection walks or things like that.
00:51:44
Speaker
um And then with the retreats, like I'm a, I'm a coach and I have this wonderful coaching program, ah which is if you want to coach in service of people and planet.
00:51:55
Speaker
There are so many online coaches. There's so many where anybody can call themselves a coach. I love that. um Anybody can come from coaching, but I do like the rigor of study and I do like what I have created, which is nature based way of coaching.
00:52:11
Speaker
So we practice if you know, how do we listen? to a person if we cannot listen to a tree, you know, like start there, who are we in service of, what, why do we coach, so many coaches, I've came from the background of coaching that a coach is neutral, but no, I've got opinions, we've got opinions about, it and so I think it's important we share them, and you know, like people, people will come to me if they want that,
00:52:38
Speaker
And so I've got a six-month journey, which is virtual with, you know, group perspectives and supervision and one-to-one coaching, but it is centered around a seven-day retreat here in Mallorca.
00:52:50
Speaker
And, you know, once again, coaching is not a theoretical exercise. we If we're going to be in service of people planet, we have to be with the land. We have to, you know, go out go out to the land and be with it and co-create and learn that. We need to ask it questions. We need to listen. We need to, you know, like see vision with it.
00:53:11
Speaker
um So i just love that experiential space. And I also think retreats, it's like as coaches, learning our self-care practices. What are we doing to look after ourselves?
00:53:24
Speaker
Going back to the sustainability, how can we be regenerative? How can we be sustainable? And I think that retreats, create that moment, don't they? You disconnect and you enter a different, a liminal space of the unknown.
00:53:37
Speaker
So yeah, that's how i how I work with people. And of course, and I also do collaborations like with Moon Nine, and Gateway to Your Essence, which you know we have a retreat based, people need to
00:53:52
Speaker
commit to that, to a different way. Otherwise we just keep on doing the same thing, don't we? Of course, you know you've got a beautiful you plant You can turn around and have um micro moment and a connection.
00:54:05
Speaker
But I do believe in that bigger, longer, extended experiences. Yeah, I definitely agree that that especially having different ways. We were just talking about that yesterday in one of my group um research groups here in Damanhur, one of my spiritual research groups, where we're working on a program for something. And we were saying that that how important it is to have the consistency in particular for the things that we're teaching as part of metadaction, which is our initiatic path.
00:54:36
Speaker
And also having those moments of immersion. And it is important to have those moments where, you know, you just ah kind of give yourself that space to be completely 100% immersed in what you're doing. And I think that the downfall of the ah digital world is the fact that, and and I'm guilty of this myself, it's like, either you capture me, or I am going to be doing something else, which is from a neurodivergent perspective can be very positive, like, ah not just... It's helped me, for example, learn how to feel safer in a meeting, even in a physical meeting with people to doodle or to do something that kind of helps my mind work in the way that it needs to work.
00:55:17
Speaker
The negative side of it is when we take it too far, which is that if the instructor or the person who's holding the meeting doesn't really capture my attention, I also don't give myself the permission or or kind of give myself...
00:55:30
Speaker
always the tools is necessary to allow myself to be focused there. I'll just go um and I'm going to go check my Facebook account or I'm going to go do something like that. And I think that retreats give you that space that says this is a safe space, hopefully, you know, hopefully. And therefore, ah I'm just going to pretend that whatever is going here, I'm to try it.
00:55:52
Speaker
Because I'm safe. I'm in this place. It works for me. And I think that when you do, especially nature retreats, any retreat in like in a beautiful setting helps you get into that faster, you know, allows you to try to just sort of say, I'm going to pretend the outside world doesn't exist. I'm going to think of this as my little kind of safe space.
00:56:11
Speaker
And I'm going to make mistakes and fall down and try things I've never tried before.
Gratitude and Co-Creation
00:56:16
Speaker
And, you know, expand in whatever way it goes, and we'll we'll see what happens. So I love that you're doing that combination of stuff, especially because as you said, as coaches, you know, we don't tell you do this, but we do want to be able to say, thought of that?
00:56:31
Speaker
And have you thought of that? And have you thought of that? And have you thought of that? And have you thought of that? And, you know, how do we expand the way that you look things and we do have experience, you know, we've all have our years and years of experience. And that's the reason why a client chooses to come to us, a person will come and say, i want to work with you because I know you're going to expand me in that direction. and, and having that like care with somebody I think is so important. I love, I love that you're doing all these things. Plus, you know, Hey, it's Spain.
00:57:00
Speaker
ah Yeah. Yeah. You're going to have to, we we have to co-create something. Exactly. We have to co-create. I've got to, I've been saying that for the last year. Like there's a lot of signs that this is the year I'm heading back Spain for a while. I like that. Yeah. It makes me happy. This has been a fantastic conversation. The time has just flown by. Are there any last words you want to tell everyone?
00:57:22
Speaker
Oh, just immense gratitude. I think um because you're helping. and I want you to say actually you're helping me because my my journey is um like this intimate, expensive relationship. came from a a rites of passage when a wilderness vision quest And I had this intention, this little hummingbird came straight at me. And it was sort of like, that's what i want. And so I've been expanding my sort of view of plants, like in terms of, you know, from the what is the the from the co-creation, the possibilities.
00:57:57
Speaker
But actually you're offering like it like really like that intimacy, you know, where you're like being with um there the uniqueness of that plant in the in your home.
00:58:11
Speaker
And that's a good learning for me, you know, because um I think that, um you know, like start close in, right?
00:58:23
Speaker
Right. With the life that's here. And I think that, it's yeah, so actually you're expanding, you because the whole podcast is expanding, you know, with perspectives. And I just love what you're, yeah. Yeah.
00:58:33
Speaker
like the voice of for the plants. So thank you. I am so happy. And like you said, it's about exchange, right? Where each one of us is doing our piece. And when we get to bring them together, we get to co-create something even even greater than the sum of its parts. So Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for sharing everything that you're experiencing.
00:58:54
Speaker
I will, of course, put all the information about, you know, your website and the things you're doing into the show notes so that people will be able to find you and that they can hopefully, maybe, who knows, come out to Mallorca and take a, you know, one of your retreats. I think that would be fantastic. so thank you so much. forgot to Yeah. And we will, I'm sure our paths are going to continue to cross and ah keep up the amazing work. Like, please keep doing it. It's so important.
Conclusion and Community Invitation
00:59:24
Speaker
Wow. Wasn't that such an enriching, expansive conversation?
00:59:30
Speaker
And I love that Penelope really touched on all the different facets of a coaching mentorship type of relationship, the different ways that we can be in service and working together.
00:59:41
Speaker
i mean, the fact is, not only are we always solo together from the perspective of, I, as an individual, am a sovereign being, but I'm always in relationship with others, so I'm always together.
00:59:52
Speaker
But also in the way that we teach and learn and study and go deeper is also a personal experience that's happening with others.
01:00:03
Speaker
And I love that she has such great offerings that are very complementary even to the offerings that I have, right? The idea that the naturally conscious community is the place for you to bring all of what you're doing in and to experience it and share it and go deeper into it and have deep conversations and reflect in the meditations and to think about it through books.
01:00:26
Speaker
And we also put together retreats and such. So you can go and have beautiful experiences with somebody like Penelope and have this really um deep way of connecting with land and the beings of the land with her and then bring all of that into places like the naturally conscious community.
01:00:44
Speaker
And also, if you're looking for a long-term experience, if you really want to help transform your life and to accelerate that evolution, then coaching might be the right way for you. This is a place where you have that safe space, that one-on-one attention to really think about your life in new ways.
01:01:02
Speaker
How do I apply and co-create with myself and with others, the life that I have been wanting and dreaming of? How do i accomplish my goals? How do I choose the projects I want to work on?
01:01:14
Speaker
How do I just learn how to be a better communicator with self? And so that my authentic, true nature can shine through. And really, I don't have to hold back on anything that I am or anything that I want to accomplish.
01:01:28
Speaker
If you're interested in really moving into this phase of your life, then I am here for you. All you have to do is set up a discovery call. So all of that information is in the show notes.
01:01:41
Speaker
I am just like in awe of the brilliance of the people that are around me. And so I will always rimp remind you over and over again to resist the urge to hold back your emerging great brilliance.
01:01:55
Speaker
That's it for now. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Reconnect with Plant Wisdom. To continue these conversations, join us in the Naturally Conscious Community, your premier online ecosystem for plant reawakening and accelerated evolution and co-creation with other kin.
01:02:12
Speaker
Here you'll find expansive discussions, interactive courses, live events, and supportive group programs like the Plant Wisdom Book Club and the Sprouts Writing and Creativity Group. Connect with like-minded individuals collaborating with plants to integrate these insights into life. Intro and outro music by Steve Shuley and Poinsettia from the singing Life of Plants.
01:02:32
Speaker
That's it for me, Tigria Gardenia, and my plant collaborators. Until next time, remember, resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance. I'm out. Bye.