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Ep.110 Evolving Wild with Eric Inman
37 Plays2 days ago
I laughed a lot in this one—not because it was funny, but because there’s something deeply disarming about talking with someone like Eric Inman. In this episode, we explore what it really means to be in communion with nature—specifically with rivers—and how reawakening our wild selves can shift everything.
This is an episode about feeling your way into truth, remembering you are nature, and learning to dance with the wild rather than dominate it. Whether you’ve been craving deeper integration after a breakthrough or you’re just starting to question the disconnected world you live in, this one’s for you.
Topics Covered about Ecopsychology and plant medicine
➡️ Explore psilocybin therapy in nature as a powerful tool for reconnecting to your soul and rewilding your nervous system
➡️ Understand river consciousness and how water can serve as a guide for emotional regulation and intuitive decision-making
➡️ Break free from ego-based survival patterns by embodying your authentic self in communion with Nature
➡️ Learn why community and integration matter after any plant medicine or transformational experience
Chapters
00:00 Introduction & River Connection
07:30 Creative Rewilding Practices
15:00 Biomimicry and System Design
22:30 Spiritual Ecology Deep Dive
30:00 Human Patterns vs Wild Systems
37:30 Personal Journey with Plant Allies
45:00 Practical Steps to Evolving Wild
52:30 Closing Reflections & Next Actions
Resources Mentioned
🌱 Eric Inman - Evolve Wild
🌱 Personalized mentorship with me and the Plants
// Podcast Guest //
Eric Inman | River guide, psychedelic mushroom facilitator, and owner of Evolve Wild
Expanded Show Notes
☝🏽ReConnect with Plant Wisdom podcast Ancient and modern knowledge from biology to spirituality about the wondrous ways plants help you lead a Naturally Conscious life.
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Opening and Closing music by @Cyberinga and Poinsettia.
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Transcript
Welcome & Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Reconnect with Plant Wisdom. It's me, Tigre Agartenia. So this is an episode.
00:00:10
Speaker
I have, I have, to I just have to laugh. I have to laugh because there is you'll you'll see. Okay. So first and foremost, let's tell you a few things about this episode.
00:00:21
Speaker
One, it's amazing. It's amazing. i um When I first had a conversation with Eric and Min, I will was like, okay, where is this going to go? i am not exactly sure.
00:00:32
Speaker
And then as I just talked to him, he has this way, this connected way of being, which means he struggles with his words that I love so much. I love so much. And just as I predicted, this conversation was fantastic to really understand what it means to come into deep contact with, you know, another being of nature.
Eric's Eco-Psychological Approach
00:00:53
Speaker
In particular, we were talking about the river and we were talking about that, that reawakening of that, of your, of your nature-ness, let's just say with a, with a capital n But what I loved about this conversation was just
00:01:07
Speaker
Eric's approach, I mean, he is an eco-psychologist. He has you know ample experience. He takes it from many different angles. And I just really enjoy, and I know you're going to love the way we were able to kind of just come into this communion um with these beings of nature of which we were talking about, but i could you could feel them. You could just feel them present. Now,
00:01:30
Speaker
I will tell you this, ah Eric's audio and video is a little bit, so hopefully you will just forgive him for that. um We're doing our best to clean it all up, but it was just such a good conversation that I didn't want to, you know, lose any part of it.
00:01:46
Speaker
So I know you are going to love it just as much as I
Host's Mission & Expertise
00:01:49
Speaker
did. So without further ado, this is episode 110, Evolving with Eric Inman. evolving wild with eric inman Enjoy!
00:02:02
Speaker
Welcome to Reconnect with Plant Wisdom. I'm your host, Tigria Gardenia, Nature-inspired mentor, certified life coach, and the founder of the Naturally Conscious Community. For over a decade, I've been known as a world ambassador for plant advocacy, working closely with plants to share their practical wisdom to help you consciously embody the elements of life that nourish your evolution.
00:02:23
Speaker
In this podcast, I delve into ancient and modern knowledge from biology to spirituality about the wondrous ways of plants. Together, we'll explore how ecosystem thinking helps you overcome limiting beliefs, understand the true nature of relationships, and live an authentic, impactful life.
00:02:43
Speaker
Okay, Eric, I feel like we have um we've almost done this interview like three times because we just keep chit-chatting about stuff and then are like, oh yeah, we'll talk about that. And then we'll talk about that. And then at some point we're like, okay, it's got to start. So before we start anything at all, can you please just introduce yourself to the audience who is Eric Inman?
Eric's Background & Work
00:03:03
Speaker
Who is Eric Inman? Hi. Thanks for having me on your show first. yeah
00:03:11
Speaker
um Yeah, no, thanks for having me on the show. I love the premise and I'm really excited about the conversation. um I am, ah let's see, i'm ah I have a master's in ecopsychology, kind of background in wilderness therapy. Right now, my big focus is offering um psilocybin aligned nature-based journeys, legal psilocybin in Oregon. and So I'm permitted national forests and i go to these places and we also do the psilocybin in a legal way and um yeah and and and indoors and have this journey around it um and i've been yeah really about connecting people with the natural world emotionally uh in a number of ways and with their their wild self right
00:04:00
Speaker
So I have to laugh because i so I just want to tell everybody why I'm laughing because you and I have this is, you know, this is the second time we talked the first time we talked. As you can all tell, Eric is very like, soft spoken. And there's a I kept digging, because I could feel this like deep connection passion that's hiding behind a whole series of masters in eco-psychology, terminology, and all these other things.
00:04:26
Speaker
And as a person who also has a master's, who's worked a lot in like the scientific realms and, you know, who's always, who doesn't really care about the words as much as like some of my probably colleagues who have had to work in certain things, I just kept digging.
00:04:41
Speaker
And I was like digging and digging and digging until I hit... water, to be honest. i hit I hit the river and all of a sudden his face changed and things started to come out of his mouth.
00:04:52
Speaker
So that's, i'm I'm just going to jump right into it. Because the thing is, and and let's just set the premise up, right? The premise is, you do really beautiful things that have this sort of edgy um alternative side, which makes them a little bit scary and a little bit fascinating. And also because you are talking about, you know, working with mushrooms in a sort of therapeutic, you have these two ends.
00:05:20
Speaker
This is my opinion. I please correct me if I'm wrong. You have these two ends that you have to be really cautious about,
Challenges in Eco-Psychology
00:05:26
Speaker
right? One is you don't want to attract the sort of recreational, party person who thinks, oh, I'm going to go trip and then go like, you know, go down the river because that's not safe.
00:05:37
Speaker
And at the same time, you're also working in a field that kind of, for lack of a better term, to give it legitimacy has almost constrained the way they talk about it. Because eco-psychology in so many aspects, at least all of that I've come across of it, and again, working in biophilic design and and in you know, different aspects of biomimicry and biophilia, I've come across this a lot, which is, you know, you have this, this un- how do I say, undescribable kind of connection to nature, but that needs to be quantifiable from a statistically ah scientific, ah you know, psychological thing. And so unfortunately, a lot of people feel super stifled in the fact that what they're trying to do is say connection to nature makes you happier, makes you more generous, makes you feel good and and brings out this whole other side of you.
00:06:34
Speaker
I can say that, but I can get it why it's not that easy to say. I'd love to kind of hear how you ended up kind of where you are from the perspective of, you know you do you do something that ah taking people on a type of journey that is to a certain extent, like outside of the normal realm of
Eric's Personal Journey
00:06:52
Speaker
what I think about. How did you end up going there?
00:06:56
Speaker
It's a long story. We got some time. We got time. Great. Yeah. I mean, there's kind of, there's two parallel tracks, right? That's to, to, to my entire story.
00:07:09
Speaker
One is the, is the nature connection piece of it. Right. And I've been connected to nature, you know, like I went backpacking early as a kid. I got really into skiing through my adolescence and just kind of went out a bunch doing that. And I also, then I became a river guide while I was in college. And that kind of like, that was,
00:07:30
Speaker
the first time I really felt like I belonged. I had, you know, I was just on the water every day during, during the summer and just, you know, like it was an amazing experience and that kind of like move towards this guiding aspect, right. Of, of what I do.
00:07:47
Speaker
Then there's also the psychology piece, which is essentially consciousness. Um, you know, and that's, you know, the study of consciousness or something along those lines. And, I mean, I never felt quite right in human-made worlds or institutions or school. And I was smart, but like, I just, there was something kind of off, you know, like they knew it and I knew it. Yeah.
00:08:09
Speaker
yeah yeah And so, i mean, and after high school, between high school and college, I went to a fish show and I took some acids.
00:08:22
Speaker
And I mean, I'd taken acid before, but this one, it just absolutely blew my mind. i felt that connection with everything, the mystical experience, which I didn't know. i didn't even know it was a thing until I went through my my my mushroom training.
00:08:35
Speaker
Like, I mean, I knew it was a thing, but like the name for it, you know, that goal. But anyway, so I had this really powerful experience. And then I went to study psychology in the 90s and I and You know, if you suffer suffer from hallucinations or delusions or this and that, you are schizophrenic and you need to be institutionalized. And I'm, you know, like...
00:08:56
Speaker
what um
00:09:00
Speaker
you know and so and then and and and the whole kind of and being a skier the reason i went to psychology being a skier well that like to study what this what this mode of consciousness was but also um i was really worried about climate change like back when you know early 90s when it was starting to become more popular but like i was worried there wasn't going to be snow and i'm but i'm also like You know, that kind of doug got me into it. But I also like, well, why are we doing this?
00:09:27
Speaker
You know, it's not because we don't have solutions. It's we're choosing to. Right. And so those two worlds and like and being at home in the natural world and not understanding this human made one really kind of like moved. And, you know, when I became a river guide, that's when I started to kind of.
00:09:45
Speaker
be in community around something different, you know, something not human made. And then, yeah, I got into wilderness therapy. After I graduated, I moved to Oregon. i did work in residential mental health for a little bit, and it just didn't really have much oomph. The kids were kind of going through the motions, this kind of thing.
00:10:05
Speaker
When I moved to Oregon, I worked in wilderness therapy and it was a great program. And, um you know, it was, like the kids all went through things. I went through things. We did a lot of stuff outdoors. We were just really connected to the, to the nature, you know, and, and, and kids were committed to their growth and healing because it was so vibrant, you know, it was so alive in the community and in each person.
00:10:31
Speaker
And then the program shut down, they didn't get the funding, um you know, so it's just been this constant struggle of like, while the human made world is more and more encroaching on the natural world, it's also capturing that piece of our consciousness, right?
00:10:48
Speaker
um That, that, that, how do we make it make money? i Yeah. I mean, make it make sense. I mean, it doesn't make a lot of sense. i don't want to say that it's something about what we're doing makes very much sense at all.
00:11:03
Speaker
Right.
Disconnection from Nature
00:11:04
Speaker
It's, it's really been, that's kind of been the, the, the two things I've been wrestling with for a while. and trying to understand how to bring forward. I like how you put it in because unfortunately right now, and I think is ah a big piece of it is that our human-made world, it's almost, I would almost rename it because it's it's the disconnected made world.
00:11:27
Speaker
In other words, there is a human-made world that is made in connection when, and you see it, mean, we we There are places that you can still go to, peoples, groups, cultures that you can go into and you walk in and you're like, wow, this is all human made, but it's human made with nature.
00:11:43
Speaker
In other words, the people are still connected. They're an integral part of, you know, the natural world and the natural world is co-creating and there's a co-creation. It's it's very far few and far between, but we see it, we feel it.
00:11:55
Speaker
that essence of what it is. Unfortunately, we have this large preponderance of this disconnected human made world that is kind of like you said, um it's causing us all kinds of different um mental stress, mental illness, all kinds of different part as, you know, we as Dr. Corey keys, who I always quote, because I really love his work talks about, you know, the difference between negative mental health and positive mental health, because we use the word mental health as if it's always negative. And it's like there isn't there's there's the whole flourishing versus languishing perspective.
00:12:31
Speaker
And but flourishing requires that connection, requires that element. So I can understand that, um you know, as the disconnected world keeps encroaching on the natural world, it just makes it feel even worse because now you're trying to apply negative, not negative, um disconnected activities in a natural setting, thinking that that's going to fix it. And then the few people who do get it, who realize that that's not what it is, like you said, you're, you're you're almost struggling to say like, no, no, no, here, here, fund this because this is working. Like this is different. And this is, you know, something that is actually going to help.
00:13:10
Speaker
How do you see, and And I don't want to put you on the spot too much. I will
Navigating Nature's Flow
00:13:15
Speaker
put you a little bit on the spot. But like, how do you see the difference? Like when you think about, for example, i'm I'm going to use the example of something that I know you care about, right? Like a river rafting trip. Let's just use that perspective of somebody who's connected and who is taking you on an experience of connection to the river And what do you feel like is different in that from like somebody who's doing it for sport, who's just taking you to like, uh, you dominate the river and that whole wording of dominate the river, you know, dominate your fears, go deal with all the, which is not the same thing.
00:13:53
Speaker
Yeah. Well, yeah. Um, I mean, the difference, I mean, there's, there's all kinds of, um, river guides, you know, all kinds of people have their own perspectives on everything.
00:14:08
Speaker
But a lot of there's there's the two different aspects and some people can get really focused on kind of paddle commands, being in the boat, um this kind of thing that talking about, you know, just keeping like the conversation in the boat um and, you know, and talking about the splashes and the excitement and adrenaline and like, you know, and kind of like really amping that up and things.
00:14:29
Speaker
And then there's when it starts to get, you know, starts to get into the larger awareness of where are we? What is this river? And, you know, how was it made? Kind of give some background around that.
00:14:41
Speaker
And for me. the thing that really kind of starts to make a shift, help people make that shift is bringing the awareness of feeling and how do you feel? Who are you when you're there? How do you feel when you're there and what kind of things come to light? and A rafting trip is a pretty short time, but it's really intense, right? I think water is just this really great, what, conductor of a lot of things, you know, um including, um,
00:15:10
Speaker
including kind of emotional and psychological transformation. Like it can happen really quickly. Whereas on land, I think, you know, you don't get splashed so you can take a hike for a few hours and like you get the physical piece, but like, it's not as, whereas water, you know, you're kind like, so yeah, I mean, really starting to, starting to feel into that. And then where does the conversation go, you know?
00:15:32
Speaker
And yeah, on a larger scale, how do you bring it forward? I think a rafting trip is a really confined, thing if it's just like a day trip, you know, I offer overnight trips and things like that, help people have time out there and really get into the flow of consciousness.
00:15:48
Speaker
um But yeah, I mean, there are a couple of things in that question had it just kind of came up in terms of the
00:16:00
Speaker
There's a way, yes. So, yes, sorry. No, no. Remember, I told you this, and I'm going to repeat it to everybody who's listening because I say it often. Repeat it to me, too. My favorite piece is when we lose the words. Because when we lose the words, it's when we've re-found the connection.
00:16:18
Speaker
Because the natural world doesn't always talk to us through human speak. So what we're trying to do here, and and thank you for even... taking that time, because that's already shows the difference, is how do we how do we translate for a person who's listening or watching feeling, ah an experience that is ah transcends our humanality, right? it It connects our humanness to our animalness, to our plantness, to our waterness in this case, to something that's way beyond that
00:16:54
Speaker
doesn't really have words. it's It's like your body feels it you move it. It's like you said, the splash. And the and and and so to me, every time, whenever and everybody that I interview who comes in and starts to stutter through the words, that's when I know we're on the right track.
00:17:13
Speaker
We're there. ah We get into the right place. Perfect. I love that. I love that.
00:17:22
Speaker
um Yeah. So what i was what I was stuttering about um is that there is this, there's there's essentially two, the way that I view consciousness is there's two things happening that are, that are it's always a balance, right?
00:17:43
Speaker
um And it's our ego, which is our conscious representation of our mortal selves. Physically, it keeps us safe, keeps us kind, of it recognizes as an individual, it's kind of planned and strategized and keeps our physical self alive, right?
00:18:05
Speaker
And, and that's, you know, a limited perspective, it also kind of it's the basis of all these fears and all these things that keep us from seeing something larger, which is our soul, that's our it goes beyond our our our our physical selves and life and death and time and you know all this stuff. and it And it is connected to everything. and we're always and And when we're in that frame, we're really in a flow. And when we're in the ego, we're you know in this straight line.
00:18:36
Speaker
So psychology is psychologys a balanced that. And the more that the ego has control on things, the more disconnected we are from the natural world in a nutshell.
00:18:48
Speaker
And a lot of the things that we've built up at this point as people is, is ego based and, you know, plans and, you know, kind of keeping ourselves more where we are, we've done well at, um, kind of.
00:19:02
Speaker
extending our life and you know kind of and making things more comfortable but at the same time we've lost this connection to something more right and so when we're speaking to people through a computer um where people are in that egocentric world they're on in their cars or they're looking at a screen or something and so there's kind of an appeal to that but there's also this um this thing that we're both trying to get at that that I think, you know, that, that everyone wants is this real kind of like passion, this openness and this, this connection.
00:19:35
Speaker
And how do you, how, how, how do you convey that? Right. And, and, and just, I mean, for me, it's going out there and doing these things and offering these things to other people and the way that I've found joy and everything. And,
00:19:48
Speaker
and then, you know, exploring that with people and, you know, checking with there are, cause there's, um, yeah, there's, it's, it's funny that it's, you know, I've heard like niche that this is niche. Um, and, um, some other, I can't remember what you were saying here, but, um,
00:20:11
Speaker
To me, there's not many people who don't love a river, right? Who don't love nature. As I'm looking at the river in front of me, i have a giant river right in front of my window here.
00:20:25
Speaker
Nice. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. I wish I did. Not today. um But yeah, I mean, you know, and when you're hiking, you know, you go along the trail and, um you know, there's this there's just a beautiful river and how to spend more time in that right go along it in a boat that's that's the best way to safest way for sure right yeah and so um
00:20:53
Speaker
Yeah, i was on I was on a track there. I'm loving this because it's like, I feel like the river consciousness has just arrived and we're trying to speak on Key's behalf and are struggling. And I guess that's so that's a question that I have for you right now, which is, you know, you talk about the two sides of consciousness that we as human beings have, right? Our ego side. or I love that conscious representation of our physical self. um I have to admit, I hadn't heard that definition and I really like it.
00:21:21
Speaker
where you look at that
Consciousness of Rivers
00:21:22
Speaker
at the soul level, um how do you see the the river consciousness? Like, is there a moment of connection? Do you feel it when you kind of tap in at a different side of yourself to the consciousness of the river of the river also?
00:21:39
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's all kinds of studies about how even when you're when you're near the river, the the ions affect you. And you know when you see what or how that affects people's brains. And if you want an immersive nature-based experience, jump in the river, right? Right, it's true. Shift everything real quick.
00:21:57
Speaker
but some But there's also ah another piece around all of it um that we as people, not too long ago, few hundred years ago, used to be at the river or at a lake every single day.
00:22:16
Speaker
And we'd we get our source from there. And we see, when we go there, we see the animals getting there their their life from the river, you know, their their water and, you know, there's bugs and plants and, you know, fish and all kinds of things. And there's that, the river kind of up and down and it kind of creates this zone of life. And it's just, everything moves out from the river and,
00:22:38
Speaker
when we don't have that, we don't you know when we don't really need to go to the river anymore, I think we just completely overlook it. And it's really overlooked in a lot of environmental consciousness, uh, you know, we're very worried about climate change and stuff and, you know, but don't really think about the river. We just kind of take it for granted and then we dam it up and there's, you know, it just dies. It gets stagnant and it's, there's a zone, you know, like when, when there's a dammed river, there's just the river and there's land above it and there's water below it and nothing's kind of alive. When the river drops, you can just see the line of demarcation where it's just, you know, You are just describing the view outside my window because I literally have a river right in front of me and probably around, what is that? 200 meters down going in one direction. I have the dam because literally the dam is right there.
00:23:31
Speaker
And um it's been raining the last few days, so the river is really high right now. But we've had some periods like last year, i was depressed because the river had gone down. And this part of the river being so close to the dam is exactly what you just said. So when the when the water comes down, it's like this line of demarcation where all this beautiful green because I live in a ah valley, it's called the the Val Cusela, which is the the the closed river.
00:23:59
Speaker
like the closed valley, which is because this river is called the Val Cusela River, or the Cusela River, which is the closed river. And so when the water goes down, all you see is this super dred dried earth, and like the plants stop at a certain point, and you have this little island kind of that got formed in the middle, that as i'm I'm looking at, that's why I'm looking off to the side, but as the water goes down, like you said, there's this thing, and and there's this feeling in this part of the river that's very artificial feeling.
00:24:32
Speaker
it's it's It's weird. I have this beautiful meadow in front of me. I have beautiful like verdant, you know, ecosystem. But that part of it to me is very like contained And a little bit, if you go way farther upstream, because this is this river comes all the way down and there's like an an area up high where there's a lot of trout and stuff like that. And so there's movement, there's more life. It's ah it's a different energy than the energy that is here.
00:25:04
Speaker
And it's so weird. It's just so weird. It is. it is. Yeah. And I think that's a really good example of kind of just when the ego, right? Like the dam is like a human
Ego, Soul, and Control in Nature
00:25:18
Speaker
built thing. And we think, oh, well, this is going to make things better.
00:25:23
Speaker
But really, when we try and control too much, we don't we kind of mess it up, you know, right. um And it does make things a little easier for us in the short term, but it really kind of it is it hamstrings us in the long term.
00:25:38
Speaker
And I think this is what this is. This is where I was trying to get back to earlier this is this
00:25:47
Speaker
The culture of... jeez. I'm in trouble putting it into words. I'm okay with that. Yeah.
00:25:56
Speaker
Yeah, that just... and I think we're circling around it, is just this culture of controlling things. And, um you know, it's it's creating problems. but And and we we we grew up in that. we That's what we know. And that's how we kind of relate to it. And so in a sense, we have a lot of ego, even when we think we don't, you know, like, and so...
00:26:19
Speaker
when people get out and they, and they find that love, that passion, that connection, it it allows a different part of us to kind of take control. You know, they're both always going to be there.
00:26:31
Speaker
we might We need both of them. But when the ego is in the driver's seat, which it is for so much of the time when we're in our culture and things like that, and just, you know, creating these, creating things that,
00:26:46
Speaker
don't really serve us real well in the long term. Now it's not, no, even in the short term, or there's a lot of questions. But when we get out there and we find that passion, we find that love, then this piece of us kind of comes in that that is more connected, that really taps into our true gift. We're,
00:27:02
Speaker
all wild nature in ourselves too. You know, we were, we're cosmic beings, you know, or animals on this rock floating through space, um, that came here at a critical time with ah with a purpose and but without really finding that love and that passion and, you know, being with ourselves for periods of time to explore that and deepen into that.
00:27:28
Speaker
Um, Yeah, I mean, when we do that, we we find this different calling about what we're doing. And it's not unrelated to the way we live, but it really to to who we are.
00:27:39
Speaker
But it it just has a different kind of expression. It has a different driving force behind it. And that's love, you know, and it's and it's passion and you know, what we what we love to do.
00:27:54
Speaker
But yeah, and then and then there's the ah balance of how to appeal to that. Right. Yeah. Well, and I think that the thing that's interesting about rivers, you know I grew up by the ocean because I'm originally from south Florida. So I grew up like super close to the ocean.
00:28:09
Speaker
and then when I went to live in Seattle, you know, it was more, again, the river culture. And, and you know, i I did go rafting several times. And it it is a ah different beast, like they're two different pieces, but there's some elements that are the same that I find that are really fascinating.
00:28:25
Speaker
And it it is that that idea of How do you, you can't relinquish complete control to the water source, right? Just the same as I can't relinquish complete control to my emotions or anything. I can't just let go a hundred percent. I mean, we, we want to think that that's what it is. Go into the water and let go let go and die. Okay. Let's just be honest. We have to learn how to flow with it.
00:28:48
Speaker
You know, sometimes we have to swim. Sometimes we have to, you know, float. Sometimes we have to sink a little bit. Like it's not a, you I think the metaphor that we sometimes try to give ourselves, which is go out and ah let go completely. I'm like, if you're in a pool, that might work.
00:29:05
Speaker
But if you're in any kind of body of water that is alive, which of course, any river, any ocean is alive. It is about ah a conversation you're having with that water source. And especially if you're rafting, because most of likely you're going through rapids and different parts like that.
00:29:22
Speaker
where there can be rocks and there can be other impediments and, you know, different, different movement. And even any person who will like, is an experienced, whether you're talking here, we have in the area where I am, we have kayakers, you know, like the, and, and kayaking is a big thing in this area.
00:29:41
Speaker
And, it's it's It's a dance. It's ah a relationship. It's a letting go of your need to control, like you said, in order to feel where the river is going to take you. Where is that current going to move? And do i want to and yet you still can't give up and say, oh, well, where the movement it wants to take me. It's like, ah no, because it could take me straight into rocks.
00:30:09
Speaker
It's about knowing... Yes, I am going to let go of my ego or like not, like you said, ego is not a bad thing in and of itself because it is the conscious part of my physical body.
00:30:21
Speaker
But it's about ego not having to control, but more of, okay, ego, you're here. You want to keep me safe. So in order to keep me safe, we have to start this dialogue with this other being who's not just me, who is the river and everybody else who's in the river because honestly the river you know,
00:30:39
Speaker
you know, one being, but there are fish and there's rocks and there's all these other kinds of beings that are inside of the river living their lives too. And so it's more of this giant ballroom dance to a certain extent, probably a little faster, that's happening that we have to shut down the part of our bodies and the part of our consciousness that is like fast.
00:31:03
Speaker
just plain fear control and say, but at the same time, keep high the part of my consciousness. And like you said, my my ego side that is aware of my body and where my body needs to go and what my body needs to stay safe.
00:31:18
Speaker
And so where they're also saying to the river in this discussion that's happening is like, okay, you want to take me this way. I see rocks. Are you sure that you're not just going to put me straight into the rocks?
00:31:29
Speaker
And being able to hear back the call of the river that says, no, you're right, I'm going to take you into the rocks shift versus no, trust me on this, I'm going to turn you right in the right moment, but you got to go with me, you got to have that.
River Consciousness & Dance
00:31:43
Speaker
And feeling into this where it's not 100% relinquish, we don't relinquish all of ourselves, we we dance, we listen, we play.
00:31:54
Speaker
And I think that that's the difference between what you were saying, if everything is happening inside the boat, only you miss that experience. If what's happening is boat and water together, right, all the people, it's it's all these different consciousness that are mixing together, then you have the opportunity to like dance this dance.
00:32:18
Speaker
And and listen and give and take and move through it. And the only way, in my opinion, to do this is by both acknowledging that both of us are important beings. Right. The river is important and that consciousness is important and and sovereign. And we want to be able to honor. But at the same time, I'm also important.
00:32:39
Speaker
And I want to be able to honor myself and what I need and all these different parts. and i And I feel like that's sometimes what gets lost in the outdoor sports world that we have.
00:32:50
Speaker
Right. We we don't. and And this goes the same. I mean, we're having this conversation right now about water. But to me, it's the same as why I don't really talk a lot about hiking, because the majority, you know, not the majority. That was a judgment.
00:33:01
Speaker
That's not what I meant. There are people who go hiking for the sport of it. There are people who go dirt biking or mountain biking or all of this for the sport of it, which means I'm the most important thing.
00:33:16
Speaker
And then there are those that do it from that dance that we're talking about. I'm going to walk a little bit here. I'm going to lay down over there. I'm going to go really fast through this part, but I'm actually going to slow down here because that's what's needed. I'm going to turn all these different pieces.
00:33:32
Speaker
And I just wonder how, when you're taking a group down, how do you get them into that space? How do you get them to realize that that that this is that dance that needs to be done?
00:33:45
Speaker
Right. Yeah, it's a great question. Thanks for all that context. Short answer, mushrooms.
00:33:54
Speaker
ah I'm telling you, they work wonders. way there's people like me who spend you know years doing all of this other stuff you're like you want to fast track it man let's just go do some mushrooms no but it's not it's not that simple i know i'm just joking with you i mean it's funny simple like that
00:34:17
Speaker
um And you were talking about kayaking, right, which is a very skilled thing. And that's where you you've you've kind of learned all these skills. Your ego has, you know, you've you've trained yourself to do these things. And, you know, um what I offer is very...
00:34:35
Speaker
safe, contained, guided experiences. And um there is an intention of really like deepening that connection and using plant medicines, using mushrooms specifically to help with that.
00:34:50
Speaker
So on the journeys that I offer, the first day is just preparation. We go into the nature and just start to really move away from the everyday habits and mindsets that people have.
00:35:02
Speaker
um The second day is the mushroom day. And that's, again, indoors. It's in a safe, legal space in Oregon. And then the next three days are all integration when people are in this expanded kind of state of awareness and they're creating these new...
00:35:18
Speaker
feedback loops, these new patterns and habits and everything, and they're doing it in the healthiest way possible that I think anyway, in the natural world. And they are very open and it's and it is less of a you know, they're not making those crucial life or death decisions. i am a lot of the physical world and the physical responsibility so that they can go on this ethereal connective experience.
Guided Nature-Based Journeys
00:35:45
Speaker
And yeah, that's a different statement. than Someone who just comes out for the day, they show up at like 10 o'clock, put on the wetsuits and gear and then go out and paddle the river and, you know, and then get off it. I can kind of, you know, I can, I can offer some things and bits of wisdom and it,
00:36:01
Speaker
Some people are very open to the things I say. Most people, I kind of start talking about my stuff and I can almost feel their eyes glaze over, you know, it's not where they are. um When we do that, everyone's like, I mean, everyone kind of chooses to be in it, but like everyone's in it and everyone's like feeling these real deep things and, you know, and yeah. And, and,
00:36:23
Speaker
And when it comes down to it, we are technological beings. We are cultural beings. So we gravitate towards those things. We are goingnna we are going to continue to do that.
00:36:34
Speaker
um But what guides our decisions and our motivations and our values essentially is going to come from ah place of thinking. We know what's best.
00:36:47
Speaker
And like acting from that, and it's usually pretty self-centered versus doing what we know and we love and we're passionate about. And it might not even make sense in terms of our human made world. Like nothing that I do makes sense.
00:37:02
Speaker
People are like worried about me because I mean, I sacrifice a lot just to do it, you know, right keep it going. And um It's just a struggle around every corner. you know I'm always kind of like, but at the same time, i know that there's nothing else that I could do in my life that would bring as much change or fill my cup, make me believe you know that I'm living the life that I'm supposed to be, that I'm here to live. you know And that's the the wild nature within this this this thing that guides our lives that we don't really even understand
00:37:39
Speaker
before we become conscious of like what it is, you know, we spend so much of our lives trying to figure out who we are. And yeah, there's just a way that when you move into these different states through plant medicines and connection with nature, really, yeah, both of them together are great connection with nature will do it. I think plant medicine without that nature connection is really missing.
00:38:02
Speaker
the point a lot. That's where people get into the imaginary world and just, you know, like this kind of spiritual bypassing and things like that. And, you know, there's, and that, you know, yeah, don't want to go, well,
00:38:18
Speaker
I like that. I like that second of like, I don't want to go, well, I mean, ah i have I told you earlier, you know, I do a lot of pre-interviews for the podcast.
00:38:28
Speaker
And and i and as you as you know, because you went through one of them, like my pre-interviews aren't just like, let me ask you two questions. They're like, let's get into a like a mini conversation. Because as you just said, there is a lot of that. There is a lot of people who are like,
00:38:41
Speaker
who want to talk to us about, I can see the difference between, you know, taking something, you know, working with in in particular, like working with a mushroom, working with the fungi, with the fungi in order to um kind of predispose you to something that then allows you to continue that, because obviously, to a certain extent, you can't,
00:39:05
Speaker
Pardon me for saying it this way, but it's not like you can get on a river, like get on a raft in a river and be totally like high out of your mind. It doesn't work because that would be dangerous as hell. yeah So that's not the point, right? The point is not, you know, the point is let's have this experience, as you said, in that first day that opens kind of my senses that gives me permission because maybe I'm not able to give myself permission yet. I'm not there yet.
00:39:30
Speaker
that allows me to, you know, with the help of these mushroom guides to help me sort of get to a place, then give it a shape. Because, you know, come down enough to like give it a shape, but don't close it down because you're still out there. So rather than like sending you home for the day and having you come back, you stay in that environment. So we call it here ball, which is a like a sphere, a ball that gets created of energy.
00:39:54
Speaker
So you've now amplified everybody's senses, working very closely, I'm assuming with the, you know, the mushroom beings who are helping you hold that space, and then still get to a place where the people are like, okay, I can, you know, touch my nose with my finger, like I'm not out of it.
00:40:10
Speaker
And then I can actually get into the river, so that it facilitates this sort of, oh, okay, I'm coming into the river, not as again, exercise, but I'm coming into connection, i'm coming into this space from a place of,
00:40:25
Speaker
I am a being of nature who is now with and participating with and in another being of nature. And so we're going to do this piece. So it's understandable that this is for some people, unfortunately, like you said, the human world, the that human disconnected world is so strong in them. It's all they know anymore.
00:40:47
Speaker
And they've been told that everything else is scary. fearful, something to be avoided. And so this is probably the best way for them to like kickstart themselves into it.
00:40:59
Speaker
Yeah, it's a great way. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, think that touches on a lot of the the difficulty is that one, the perception that it's like this adrenaline thing, like this, this exciting thing, most of the time on the river is just spent quiet and enjoying the absolute gorgeousness of these places, you know?
00:41:24
Speaker
And there are like, you know, there are a handful of rapids along the thing and it's like exciting and there's like buildup towards it, you know, but they're like real quick. A raft is far safer than like a kayak or something and obviously far safer than swimming, but, but there's still that fear element, you know, there's still something that like energizes a little bit, but at the same time,
00:41:46
Speaker
you know, if people are like, I'm scared, I want to sit in the boat, you know, just sit down in the middle of the boat and I'll get you through it. You know, like that's not, it's not a, for most of it, it's really this serene thing.
00:41:57
Speaker
And yeah. And then just, having that just being in that expanded state we don't go to the river even the same day as mushrooms or even the day after it's usually at least a couple days separated um because yeah there is that you know when you're in plant medicine there's that you're in this different frame of consciousness in that in that soul consciousness. And so manipulating the physical world becomes more difficult.
00:42:26
Speaker
It's weird. Weird stuff happens. and We don't want weird stuff to happen on the raft. we want you to be weird, but we don't want weird stuff happening. Exactly. I like that. We want you to be weird, but not weird stuff happening.
00:42:40
Speaker
I'm good with that. I'm good with that. Okay. You're following. That's good. That's good.
00:42:47
Speaker
Yeah, because I can totally see that, that that gives that space to people. And i mean, not everybody needs it. I mean, honestly, there there are, of course, lots of people who who don't.
00:42:59
Speaker
And that's not the point of it. The point is to give yourself over to another experience where, again, how do i dance with these different beings, whether we're talking about the mushrooms, whether we're talking about the river, whether we're talking about, the like you said,
00:43:12
Speaker
enjoying this beautiful scenery, which is all these plant beings around you, the birds, everything that is part of, I am a being of nature, and I'm having this experience as a being of nature. And I think that we need more opportunities like that. And I think that that's what works for certain, you know, types of forest there of of like forest therapy and of um um forest bathing and things like that, which is when you pass a certain point and you allow yourself to say, i am a being of nature. I was just, ah I was just reaching out today to somebody that I had had on, I think she was like episode 61. I just, don't, I remember the number right now, Julia Matera, who um she is a performance artist who works very closely with nature.
00:44:00
Speaker
And one of the performance pieces that she did was she spent three days in nature just in nature, like she didn't have a tent, she didn't have anything, she didn't really bring anything with her. She spent three days trying to, so to a certain extent, break, don't wanna say break down because that's not even right, but like blur the line, let's say it that way, between her human self,
00:44:22
Speaker
and and her purple um natural self.
Integrating Nature into Urban Life
00:44:26
Speaker
Like in other words, blur the lines so that her humanity wasn't over overcoming or more dominant than her animal instincts or her plant stillness and her presence and all these other parts of herself, but trying to find a different balance where the human becomes kind of just part of that flow.
00:44:45
Speaker
And for her, one of the ways that she did it was as this performance experiment where people could come out and see and, and you know, be around her, but she was just basically in nature, like in period.
00:44:58
Speaker
And she was talking about how in some ways she wishes she would have been longer because I think she did it for three days. And she said it was by the third day she was supposed to reach this point. Like part of it was for her to be in this experience and that she was going supposed to cut across a field to reach to an area.
00:45:15
Speaker
But she says in those three days that she was in this and, you know, she was rolling around and just trying to be part of the landscape, be an element of the landscape.
00:45:25
Speaker
And it was just really fascinating as things in her perception started to change the way that she experienced it, where it wasn't longer I'm in nature, but like I am nature. It's that subtle shift that happens.
00:45:40
Speaker
And, and I think that that's really what a lot of us are trying to feel. I, I study with somebody who we talk about the Hebrew letters, but from that mystical perspective, and he says, you cannot understand any kind of mystical words.
00:45:53
Speaker
It doesn't matter you're talking about the Bible, if you're talking about the Torah, if you're talking about any kind of, you cannot understand any of this without having a mystical experience in nature. All of these types of books or deep philosophies and and even the original birthrights of of what we call today religions all come from spending a deep amount of time immersed in mercy in nature until you sort of blend in and that part of you kind of comes up.
00:46:22
Speaker
Something that, like we said from the very beginning of our conversation, our current physical, especially urban spaces, do not allow for anymore. Like, so rare that we can have that kind of experience in an urban space.
00:46:40
Speaker
um stephen ah Stephen Keller wrote a book called, think it's called Birthright, I think is what it's called. i can't remember, it's eluding me right now. But he talks about a city um that where the city is built in a way where the natural flow of all the animals and and plants has not been taken out of the city. So for example, once a year, there's a giant migration of I don't remember what it was, elk or something.
00:47:09
Speaker
And it happens through the city because the city didn't cut the path off, but instead integrated the path. So there's like points where humans can be a little bit more safe,
00:47:23
Speaker
but that doesn't impede at all what's happening in this giant migration. And he talks about other little elements that like, as if, you know, the humans are in the forest, but they're still human city, but there's a forested city. And so there's this, and how the humans also stop to give space for this migration that happens for this like long, um you know, all these animals walking through because it's part of the natural rhythm. And I feel like what you're talking about is that, is facilitating people in a shorter period of time, because not everybody can give themselves, you know, whatever, six months to live in the in the jungle, to give themselves an opportunity to re-tap into that part of themselves and then bring it back home with them. Like, you're more than what you're doing right now.
00:48:17
Speaker
You are so much more. Yeah. And all these other things sort of feel small and insignificant when you allow yourself to be the fullness of what you are. Yeah, it's beautifully said. And I love that.
00:48:32
Speaker
I love that city with the nature going through it. Like that's, that's exactly it. Like, um I think for me, people see eco-psychology as subset of psychology, right?
00:48:47
Speaker
And for me, it's a completely different thing. I think a lot of traditional psychology is meant to help us kind of pacify and feel comfortable in the world as it is in our human
Eco-Psychology vs Traditional Psychology
00:49:03
Speaker
made worlds. And we just kind of like get more in touch with ourselves while almost to an extent, ignoring the larger cultural context of everything that's happening and not focusing anything about our environments, you know, at like how that impacts us.
00:49:20
Speaker
You know, whereas eco psychology is really breaking away from all that and then And then really finding something pure and true about ourselves and and connecting with that.
00:49:31
Speaker
And then um the real work, like that's the that's the driving force of change. But the real work happens when people go back to their to their worlds and how do...
00:49:43
Speaker
How do I bring this thing that I found into the culture? And that is a struggle, especially in like and a culture that doesn't necessarily value it, you know, like the way that they don't, that we, a lot of people just don't value nature until it's cut down a log, like, you know, like the river is damned or like until it serves us, you know, and it's,
00:50:05
Speaker
And yeah, I think that's, that's the, just that city that's has nature flowing through it We have the ability to do that. We could, and it's beautiful. Like, I don't know that there's anyone who wouldn't want something like that.
00:50:17
Speaker
We're just kind of stuck on this other way of thinking that if we play this human game long enough and do well enough, then we'll eventually get there. And I think that even that's at this point, I think less and less people are believing that.
00:50:30
Speaker
Um, But yeah, so what's the alternative, right, is to really just let go of that, find yourself and then come back and bring that into the culture. And that's a struggle, especially the less of us there are who are actually doing that, who are actually living this into the world.
00:50:44
Speaker
And the more people who really find that, really bring that into the into their lives. And, you know, a big thing that I'm... trying to bring forward is the community around what this is and this integration like that's if you ask most uh most people in the psychedelic world what the biggest part of it is is is it's not the visions that you have and those experiences yes it's important to have that and recognize that and kind of capture it but those are only clues to how you can really start to make a shift in your life and then you bring that into the world and you know kind of live into that and make mistakes and trial and error and you know
00:51:20
Speaker
Find what works. Yes. Back to that. Once you've gone through that, then come back to medicine. Don't just medicine, medicine, medicine, medicine. Come back and then do it again and reconnect with nature again and kind of like speak it to the world. Say this is this is where I'm at. This is what i'm you know what i'm struggling with and what I've done well. and like, you know.
00:51:40
Speaker
And tell it how beautiful it is. Tell it tell it how much you appreciate of course. Of course. things you And enjoy it. But they yeah, the struggle is real too. It is. And this is the reason why I created the Naturally Conscious Community. My online community is exactly for that. because You can have an experience in in so many different ways.
00:51:59
Speaker
But if you don't have a safe community to bring that back, to start experimenting, to feel safe enough to change things in your own life, to make mistakes, to try things, to reopen you and inspire you on a regular basis in that nature connection, I think that that's that's the real difficulty for most people is you have this beautiful experience, but then it becomes a memory rather than something that really is life-changing and life-sustaining.
00:52:23
Speaker
And what I love about being a coach is and and being a coach with that focus is I like working with people long term. I really enjoy when a person gives themselves the space and the permission. That's the reason why, you know, yeah, I have like ah a four month starter program, but my my favorite program is a year because in that year,
00:52:45
Speaker
with With working one-on-one with me, you have someone like you where they have the experience of it and then they come into a space like mine where they can be like, okay, well, this is what's coming up to me and this is what's coming up for me. And then they also have the naturally conscious community as a community of people where they can be like ah experimenting with things and seeing it.
00:53:07
Speaker
reflected in other people and knowing that they're not alone because it's not enough for me to say you're not alone but when you see that there's you know a few hundred other people who are also doing this experimenting stretching themselves and then that's why I put all these different programs together to also apply different ways of the way we think you know writing and creativity groups so that I can get it out of myself in ways that are nonlinear or that are not so much tied to what I know today.
00:53:34
Speaker
Books, because there's so many amazing nature inspired books that are coming out that help us see things through fiction and nonfiction in other ways. you know, big discussions and meditations and the idea that there's a little bit of everything that is all kind of holding that space for you to continue that deep connection with nature. And that allows you to say things like you said, that are weird, that are like, we call ourselves weird and woo, because that's the way it is, you know.
00:54:03
Speaker
A lot of this stuff isn't part of our day to day, but I want to talk about the fact that my boss just said this to me and I felt like super disconnected. And then i you know, I, I sat with my office plants and had a deep conversation and this is what came up. What do you all think about this?
00:54:19
Speaker
Like we want to bring this in, but it's not an overnight piece. I think work that you do is so important to get people, like you said, moving to give them a new paradigm and make them see that there is a different way, and then to have whatever they might choose, whether it's to work with somebody like me or to work with an eco-psychologist that they really can work with over time, and then come back, like you said, to that experience and expand and try something new.
Long-term Engagement with Nature
00:54:48
Speaker
I feel like this is really the way forward. It's not going to happen in the snap of the fingers. It's not going to happen overnight. It happens when you give yourself that permission to have to start to evolve, to transform over time, and you give yourself the opportunity to to really let this seep into all parts of your life.
00:55:12
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's that's very well put. And I'm glad you're doing doing that work. That's phenomenal. Yeah. it's ah It's kind of, I mean, and I think we have a little similarity and it's funny, the whole idea of evolution. And I think people have a different idea of what that is, that we're going to be like robotic robots.
00:55:32
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. dying people or something like that and that's just such a like we're not going to make it much further on this track i don't think our evolution is not you know the and the the name of the company is evolved wild because our evolution happens when we take this incredible technological and and intellectual awareness we've achieved and really kind of let that, let the wild piece of us, that connection with the wild guide the way so that we can start to implement this, these amazing skills that people have, these amazing technology and like, so that we can start to use that in a way that's in harmony with our humanity and with the natural world.
00:56:16
Speaker
And I think that's a beautiful way of living. And I think that's absolutely what I would call evolution, not this robot driven, you know, megacity lifestyle. Exactly. I'm completely in agreement with you on that.
00:56:31
Speaker
wrote nowhere and So you said it, but as we're wrapping up here, I want you to tell. So everybody knows. So your website is Evolve Wild. Your business is one company, whatever...
00:56:44
Speaker
the entity that will be safe. The legal entity is Evolve Wild, which of course I'm going to put into the show notes. Is there anything else, any last parting words that you want to share with everybody about, you know, this huge thing that we've gone through?
00:56:58
Speaker
Like go, go just go do an event. Go, go. Go do it. Yeah. I mean, there is that. um And there's, oh gosh, there's just so much overwhelm at this point, I think, you know?
00:57:12
Speaker
And there's just so much. And really just just do things that reignite your soul. Do things that you love. It's all about love. We're not going to get there through being afraid of what's going to happen.
00:57:24
Speaker
We're going to get there by by finding what we love and following that. I love that. That's absolutely beautiful. Eric, thank you so much. I am so glad we did this. yeah i knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I was like, I'm just going to get him on. I'm going to hit the record button and I know it's going to come out of him. I know it.
00:57:42
Speaker
Yeah. With my squeaky chair and weird background. It's all good. Whatever. this is the truth of it. This is what happens. I was in the same boat. Like, is this even going to, but this was a fantastic conversation.
00:57:54
Speaker
Yeah. I'm super happy about it. So thank you so much. And for everybody listening, please go check out, like i said, Evolve Wild is Eric's work. And you can come out and have an amazing experience. And also afterwards, come and check out. Yeah, you got to go to Oregon, but Oregon's beautiful. So it's all worth it. Absolutely gorgeous.
00:58:11
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And then when you're done, come over to the Naturally Conscious community so that you can keep having these conversations. And, you know, we're a great tag team, right? You work with somebody like Eric, then you come and you work with me and we're going to keep evolving.
00:58:25
Speaker
And always, always, always remember to resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance. That's it for us. Bye. ya. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Reconnect with Plant Wisdom.
00:58:37
Speaker
To continue these conversations, join us in the Naturally Conscious community. your premier online ecosystem for plant reawakening and accelerated evolution and co-creation with other kin.
00:58:48
Speaker
Here, you'll find expansive discussions, interactive courses, live events, and supportive group programs like the Plant Wisdom Book Club and the Sprouts Writing and Creativity Group. Connect with like-minded individuals collaborating with plants to integrate these insights into life. Intro and outro music by Steve Shuley and Poinsettia from the singing Life of Plants.
00:59:09
Speaker
That's it for me, Tigria Gardenia, and my plant collaborators. Until next time, remember, resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance. I'm out. Bye.