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068 - Talking Neurodivergence in Goaltending with Billy Teefy
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Show notes available at https://thediygoalie.com/pod068
This week we sit down with Billy Teefy of Doghouse Hockey Development and talk about his experience with his own ADHD, as well as his experience coaching goalies with various neurodivergent conditions. We talk about the research he has done and some tips and tricks about how to make coaching a better experience for them.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Update
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to the DIY Goalie Podcast, where hosts and goalie coaches Nathan Park and Connor Munday share their insights on how to become a better goalie.
00:00:18
Speaker
Goalies, welcome back to another episode of the DIY Goalie podcast brought to you True North Goaltending. um Connor is probably not gonna be filling in ah for the next couple weeks here, um just given the fact that the day that we're recording this is his firstborn's due date. So he's kind of out on potential dad duty for the next little bit.
Guest Introduction: Billy Teefy
00:00:48
Speaker
So I'll be flying solo for a couple episodes, but I'm hoping to um give you guys a couple of cool interviews with some guests we have lined up. And for today, we have Billy Teefy, who is going to be joining us. um He is the one behind Doghouse goalie development um in the Edmonton area.
00:01:09
Speaker
And, uh, he's kind of the reason we had Justin Goldman on back a few, uh, months ago for, um, the goalie guild episode that we had. Cause, uh, they got pretty close with, with their, what is it? The goalie global goalie retreat.
00:01:27
Speaker
Is that what it is? Yeah. GGR global goalie retreat. So, yeah. So, um, and I think, uh, I think Justin even gave you a resounding,
00:01:38
Speaker
um review as to who you are as a person on that episode. So we've got Billy joining us today.
Neurodivergence in Goaltending
00:01:45
Speaker
and We are going to be chatting about a little bit kind of surrounding um some neurodivergent topics related to goaltending.
00:01:55
Speaker
and I do want to lead off just with a disclaimer that neither of us are medical professionals. um so just take take what we say with a grain of salt. um But we are going to be going from kind of the approach of um kind of, I guess, personal experience. Billy's wife works a lot with neurodivergent kids with her job, and Billy's done a lot of research on it. So that's why we figured it'd be ah a good topic to discuss so thanks for joining us today billy how are you doing today and uh getting close to hockey season again hey getting busy again it is it is and it seemed like it just finished up but um yeah i'm doing well um you know thanks for uh thanks for having me on i really appreciate it you long time listener first time caller i guess so it's it's good yeah it's um
00:02:55
Speaker
well Like I said, doing well. You know, the summer's camp season's right around the corner. Just just finished up my first camp of the of the summer here in biking and really enjoyed it and looking forward to to what the rest of it's going to bring.
00:03:11
Speaker
Perfect. Well, why don't we hop right into it? Why don't you kind of give us a bit of an introduction on yourself, a little bit of your background, um and then you can kind of touch on the goalie side of things, your playing career, coaching career, any of that, and then maybe also touch on kind of why we're going to be chatting on the more neurodivergent side of things today and kind of, you know, what ties you to that as well. So.
Billy's Journey in Hockey
00:03:39
Speaker
Yeah, you bet. I guess as far as my, my playing career, um relatively unremarkable. I, you know, I, I played, um, up until i was about 13 years old, uh, in minor hockey and then had to. Had to find other things, I guess, because, you know, honestly we couldn't afford to play.
00:04:01
Speaker
So, uh, you know, always, always loved the sport, played a lot of road hockey as a goalie, you know, pretending to be Martin Brodeur or or Ed Balfour and, and, uh, you know, won the Stanley cup many times out on the street, but, uh, as far as organized hockey, uh, you know, didn't play again until I was about 21 and started playing with the group in Edmonton, uh, as I got back into the sport and I still play with that group now. So I'll play year round for the last 25 years as in rec league, beer league, uh, whatever you call it, but just love the sport.
00:04:37
Speaker
And, um, and loved the position. And then how I got into coaching is both of my sons played hockey as well, are still playing in the minor hockey system and started off just coaching their teams and coaching different teams that they played on throughout the years. And as they up and aged up and um you know, started getting better and and and better, I decided to really kind of put a focus on the goaltending side because that's, you know, as a player, that's what I knew. um and And I did see
00:05:21
Speaker
more of a need within the industry to, uh, or within the sport, I guess, to be able to, um, ah add some value where I could add some value to, to do them.
00:05:33
Speaker
So my younger, our older son, sorry, he's a goaltender. My younger son was a goalie for the first few years and, and moved off to, to be player.
Personal Insights: ADHD and Goaltending
00:05:41
Speaker
And, uh, yeah, just kind of the journey with them as I've, as I've got more experience and they've gained more experiences is really kind of driven the the passion for what I'm doing now. So.
00:05:52
Speaker
Nice. And so what kind of got you like into goaltending? Like, why did you pick goalie specifically?
00:06:04
Speaker
You know what? It was a part of it was that I could be on the ice the whole time. Right. I never had to leave the ice. and And there's just, there's just something I liked about, um,
00:06:16
Speaker
just about it the gear was really cool. Uh, nobody else got to wear that stuff. And, and,
00:06:24
Speaker
I don't know I just, I just, you know, I guess maybe I should start by saying, I, I at 40 years old was diagnosed with ADHD. So, you know, going up through, so through minor hockey when I was younger, and just felt like something I could latch on to more and maybe focus a little bit more on than, than all the stuff that you had to do as a player.
00:06:44
Speaker
Right. they Seemed to be what I enjoyed the most. Fair enough. um So kind of diving into that a little bit then, um, When it comes to the like youth neurodivergence, um kind of like what's the relationship that you have with that in terms of like the work your wife does? And then kind of what inspired you to dive a little bit deeper and do a little bit more research on that side of things and and kind of try and find ways to implement that with your coaching?
00:07:22
Speaker
Yeah, great question. I guess saw a bit of a – at coaching minor hockey in general and teams, um I really saw – difference in in kids and in how they learned and how they approached it and how they came to the rink and really kind of started digging in to understand why.
00:07:50
Speaker
um My wife, you know, the full credit to her. she She works in children's rehab, works with a lot of of different children that in in speech and um and I guess, motor control, different different disciplines within, um you know within childhood development. So, you know, her understanding of of childhood learning and childhood development has really formed my approach to goalie coaching.
00:08:23
Speaker
and And there's been a lot of things that she's been able to help me understand as to, you know, different challenges in that that children have in learning the position, um but understand learning in general.
00:08:37
Speaker
So,
00:08:39
Speaker
And I guess that that drove my curiosity as to find out why. And so that's where I started doing more research and and digging deep. Again, like you said, I'm not a medical professional, but having experienced ADHD myself and and not knowing it until I was 40, I guess maybe that drove my curiosity as as to why and to how to to better understand better connect and and teach these young athletes how do you how to play the position.
00:09:12
Speaker
Yeah, fair enough.
ADHD in Goalies: Prevalence and Challenges
00:09:13
Speaker
Fair enough. I do find, ah i don't know if it is like related to the position, like the dynamics of the position, but I do find like in hockey players, it seems that the ones that are diagnosed with stuff like ADHD and whatnot tend to be um the majority or most of the time goalies and not players. Like I know, obviously that's a generalization, but it just seems that in general, like it's almost like a gravitation towards the position when it comes to playing hockey. um but you you don't know
00:09:47
Speaker
I don't know if you have any kind of personal thoughts or guesses as to why that is and why why the position seems to, i don't know, just hit home with with certain individuals, but...
00:10:02
Speaker
Well, I think it's but partially um that that that that we have a tendency to hyper focus on things. Yeah. and And the position allows us to do that.
00:10:14
Speaker
oh You know, sometimes it's a challenge, but sometimes sometimes it's a gift, right? um You know, where tend to be fairly creative um and and our with our neurodiversity.
00:10:29
Speaker
So I think that that place and benefits as well whether that's creative as far as as setting up your gear or um you just our approach to the position and then i think part of it too really is just the maybe maybe the the little bit of attention or the reward system that comes with goaltending that might be a little bit different than than players yeah yeah fair enough yeah maybe uh maybe i'll try and find like a professional that come in and maybe give a little bit more of the medical side of things for this. I think it's a good ongoing discussion to kind of keep open and all that. But so what do you think kind of are some of the obstacles that goalies who are on the neurodivergent side can face like both on and off the ice?
00:11:20
Speaker
ah You know, I guess there's there's there's a few things. um and and And a couple that that come to mind, especially on the ice, is that by the time that as coaches that that we see kids at the end of the day, and this, you know, I think maybe it's it's seems it's maybe accelerating neurodivergent, but kids in general, um by the end of the day, they've been through school, they've been through something else, right? Like they're their mental capacity tank is pretty low by the time they come to the ice.
00:11:55
Speaker
so So sometimes their ability to regulate in those situations is diminished and and it makes it difficult for them to seem like they're paying attention and or seem like they care.
00:12:07
Speaker
when the exact is opposite, they care a lot, but they just didn struggle with regulation sometimes I think is one of the challenges. um and And the other one is is that you know dealing with boredom or you know or or or necessarily buying into something that you don't fully understand can be tough and and makes it more difficult, again, to seem like they're paying attention.
00:12:35
Speaker
Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, that's ah we we have a goalie in our our camp this year who came out to us for the first time last year. And he's got ODD, the what is it? Obedience defiant disorder. Is that what it is? good I think that's what it and um and ADHD and stuff. And one thing I noticed in our classroom sessions, um he was always in his notebook, like drawing or writing or doing something.
00:13:06
Speaker
And, uh, you know, face value, you see think, Oh, this kid's not paying attention at all or anything like that. and then as soon as you ask a question, he's the first one to throw out an answer or whatever. And, uh, um, it was, uh, it was an interesting time. It was more often than not super sarcastic and smart asked, but, uh, as someone who is super sarcastic, that's, uh,
00:13:31
Speaker
You know, we got a couple of laughs out of some of his responses. And I know my wife really enjoyed some of the ah quick, quick hits that he sent my way in the classroom session. So and I can relate to that.
00:13:45
Speaker
So, yeah you know, I know that even even on a a lot of conference calls, um you know, in in past careers, That if if I was able to turn the camera off and do something with my hands or walk around while I was having a conversation, I was way more engaged.
00:14:02
Speaker
Yeah. And then if I'm looking right at it, right? So
Coaching Neurodivergent Goalies
00:14:07
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And I do think we'll probably get into this a little bit more later, but I do think kind of some of the old school mentality that hockey still has doesn't really, you know, it kind of frowns upon that sort of stuff, like those sort of kind of coping mechanisms. So that's we'll get into that a little bit more. But yeah, that's something I guess to be aware of.
00:14:30
Speaker
um So what are some of the things then that we can kind of put in place, I guess, to help goalies cope with any sort of disorder, neurodivergence that they're dealing with, whether it's like you know an exercise or some sort of grounding technique or or whatever the case is. What are some things that you've kind of seen help with with kids?
00:14:57
Speaker
So I guess the starting point with that is is um one just understanding that it exists, right? and and And being there. um talking with the parents to understand they're with the children every day.
00:15:13
Speaker
Right. And, and, you know, I can watch them go through that. So understanding, cause each kid's going to deal with that a little bit different. Uh, so, uh, understanding what typically works for them. If there is a diagnosis is.
00:15:26
Speaker
I guess the, the foundation of, of, of understanding that how that kid ticks, um, Now, I guess, you know, non-medical opinion stuff that ive that I've found has worked over the years is um just giving them ah little bit of space to to to be who they are with it and and maybe picking which...
00:15:51
Speaker
which mountains do to to to die on for lack of a better term as far as what you're pushing and what what you're you're not. um So as the as kids get older, um i know breathing for me really helps. I have a couple of breathing techniques that I share through my mindset stuff ah that helps, but I do find that the younger kids you know struggle to buy into that a little bit. Some of it's self-confidence, some of it's just you know maturity that'll come as they get older. so ah With the younger ones, you know, if they look really distracted, especially if we're working on, but I'm sure you've been working during a team practice, working with one or two goalies.
00:16:29
Speaker
And you generally have one that's focused on every word you're saying and one that's watching the practice go on on the other end of the ice, right? So, you know, allowing that goalie to just go join that practice for a few minutes and then come back and do a drill.
00:16:43
Speaker
and then go back and enjoy the practice. I find that really helpful, right? they They get out that energy, they get out that while I'm missing something over there, they practice and then they're looking going, oh, wait a minute, I'm missing something over there. So just now using that that um flexibility, I think is is an important part of it.
00:17:02
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. So if you're in, I guess, the other side of things, if you're a coach or a parent, um how, I guess, Like, what are some things that you can do to help your goalie kind of deal with some of the stuff if they are struggling, you know, with their focus or um just kind of like trying to help them navigate but around the situation and and set themselves up for success and, you know, I guess give them the best environment to learn from and to succeed in.
00:17:39
Speaker
Some of the tools, you know, I guess that worked for me and and have worked for some of my students are, um are
00:17:51
Speaker
whether it's, you know, called fidgets or different things that can kind of keep their hands busy a little bit. So that's tough during a practice, right? But, you know, if you allow them to handle a puck while you're while you're describing sometimes, that that's helpful.
00:18:06
Speaker
ah Some of the other things that coming in, like, you know, and and I know it's tough as a parent. we've The kids have, know, been picked up from school and you run them to the rink and everything's rushed, but, you know, some little bit of intentional nutrition just before the game is is is helpful or before practice, sorry, is definitely helpful.
00:18:25
Speaker
And just ah if finding what works and practicing those, right? the You know, the kids aren't going to be perfect at applying these tools or the parents um throughout, but the more we practice them, the better.
00:18:40
Speaker
better they become as well, right? So, um you know, i understanding um understanding the effects of dysregulation as as as the day goes on and coming in is is also an important part of it.
00:18:54
Speaker
um i was trying to think of other things ah that I've seen and and used um is,
00:19:04
Speaker
And one thing that this camp that I just finished up for the first time ever, I allowed a goalie to draw on the ice with markers during during our practice. And I never thought I'd do that. and and And but you know what I found? I tried, tried all the tools, right? Tried being stern, tried being friendly, tried joking around, wasn't getting anything to work.
00:19:25
Speaker
and then And then kind of negotiate. But I saw a desire, right? then The young goalie really wanted to do better, but was was just struggling with with the focus part.
00:19:37
Speaker
And she kept asking if she could draw something on the ice. was like, you know what? Yes, I'll give you one minute to draw if you give me five minutes of hard work. And she gave me five minutes of hard, focused work.
00:19:50
Speaker
let her draw something, come back five minutes of hard focused work. It was easier on both of us. And, and, you know, I, I feel she ended up um having a really good lesson out of that. and And so the flexibility of how we apply it, I think is so important.
00:20:07
Speaker
Yeah, fair enough. No, that's awesome. and So I guess if you run into an issue where there is a coach that, you know, is kind of maybe more of the old school mindset, like very stern, you know, like feels the yelling is the motivation kind of for everybody.
00:20:27
Speaker
um What do you think a parent or even the goalie themselves maybe um it like can best approach that situation to kind of help the coach understand and kind of get on the same page to make a better environment for them? Because I know like It varies with each individual, but a lot of times that kind of, you know, old school approach doesn't really ring very well with um with kind of the neurodivergent individuals like the yelling and all of that isn't really the the best way most of the time. So how would you kind of go about navigating that sort of situation?
00:21:09
Speaker
You know, that is a tough one because each individual is going to respond to that differently. some coaches are more open to conversations with the parents than others. um I always appreciated when the parents shared that, Hey, you know, my child's going through this, dealing with this, you know, they're on this, ah you know, I, I don't need to know exactly what medication, but you know, they're, yeah they're, they're, they're being treated for this. And, you know, these are some of our tools.
00:21:36
Speaker
um I know that not all coaches are that, that receptive and, and it's tough. And I think that's probably the best that we can do though, just keep the communication open. ah For young goalies that are going through it, um you know, instead of, I guess, just saying, hey, you know, I have ADHD, so, or or the parents, you know, my young goalie has ADHD, so um go easy on them. It's more the approach of, okay, so this these are the tools that we use at home to help them focus, you know, having the goalies kind of ah understand a little bit of what works and what doesn't work for me and and be,
00:22:13
Speaker
willing to have that communication with the coach, um, again, which can be an, an, an intimidating conversation for a young athlete, but I think it's an important skill for them to learn as well.
00:22:24
Speaker
Uh, and I do know that, that, you know, most, most kids that are dealing with ADHD, um, you know they're not motivated the same way, um you know especially through fear, um is not a motivating factor for them.
00:22:40
Speaker
you know If anything it can be shut down, there's there's there's a symptom or or something that kind of goes along with ADHD quite common, it's it's the acronym is RSD, it's rejection sensitivity dysphoria.
00:22:55
Speaker
So a lot of neurodivergent kids will, you know, automatically think in a situation um and adults as well, to be fair, will automatically think in a situation in a social interaction that, oh, they don't like me or because, or they're mad at me because of the look on their face or the way they turned around. and it's Again, you know, having a professional on would probably be extremely helpful to to dig into these deeper, but I know it exists. Right. And, and it's something that I've gone through as well. So, um, you know, having that fear based, uh, approach or, or the conversation, the the term that I hear a lot is if they want it bad enough, they'll, they'll focus, oh yeah you know,
00:23:40
Speaker
what when What level are we are we looking at, right? if are we Are we trying to work with, you know, with with the youngest that are just coming in or, you know, house league goalies or or goalies that are trying to be very competitive?
00:23:57
Speaker
They all, you know, are are going to respond and have different types of of approaches to how they how they learn as children first, right? um So I think that's an important part to consider.
00:24:09
Speaker
Yeah. So i don't know, this one might be, I guess, kind of a curve
Identifying Neurodivergence in Young Goalies
00:24:15
Speaker
ball. And I don't know how much you'd be able to answer is not being a medical professional on this. But ah do you have like anything that you find helps to maybe identify when there might be more going on than just, you know, somebody who's not wanting to listen kind of thing. Like if, if it's an actual focus issue or if, you know, like, so say if you're a coach and you're working with ah a new goalie and they seem spaced out, not listening or whatever, is there anything to like look for or cues or anything that might help you dictate that
00:24:56
Speaker
there might be something else going on aside from just them not listening or not being interested. I'm here because dad made me here and brought me here. um i don't know if that makes sense, if you get what I'm trying to get at, but.
00:25:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I think I understand. and yeah, definitely, um you know, trying to try to but whatever diagnose as an unprofessional is tough, right? But, you know, I guess the first thing is, is you know, just being curious, right? And as as a coach, um ask the parents if you're seeing something, you know if you've tried three or four different approaches and you can't seem to kind of break that focus um or break into that focus zone,
00:25:37
Speaker
talking to the parents is is probably the first, right? Hey, you know, I noticed that, uh, that Johnny's struggling, you know, a little bit here to, to stay focused throughout the whole lesson. Is there anything, you know, I should know or any tools, right? And quite often just even ask that parents are like, Oh yeah, you know, thank God, you know, he's curious enough to ask. Right. Um, and then, and then they don't have to, they're not as worried about it.
00:26:02
Speaker
Um, and the, the second thing I guess really is just, um, you know, ADHD or neurodivergency or not, if if the approach just doesn't seem to be working with with the child, then we probably should try something different, right? it's it's and And through the whole thing, you know, accountability and in in the sport is still part of that development and growth and needs to be there. but there's the minor different things that, that, that we can do to help, um you know, I think is, is, is an important part of that.
00:26:38
Speaker
Yeah. Fair enough.
Coaching Strategies for Diverse Needs
00:26:40
Speaker
um Do you find there's certain like ways of explaining things or maybe even structures of stuff like drills or concepts um that kind of help to resonate a little bit better? So like something that would like,
00:26:57
Speaker
if there's a coach out there who um wants to tailor their approach to kind of be across the board, like easy to understand for kids who aren't neurodivergent and kids who are like, are are there certain ways that we as coaches and even maybe parents too can kind of structure some of this stuff around hockey to be a little bit, you know, better to resonate with, with these kids?
00:27:25
Speaker
So this isn't my term. ah It's something I learned, but that the first thing is is the is to learn the name of their dog.
00:27:37
Speaker
ah like Just building connection. yeah ah you know and And as you build connection and trust, then then the explaining the rest of it becomes so much easier. But on the neurodivergency side of things, or or I guess some of the the tools I learned to explain is, you know I start ah start explaining a concept.
00:27:59
Speaker
and I can see a movement challenge within the concept, it's about breaking it down and scaffolding it, like you know a power slide from your feet sliding across. If there's if there's um you're you're seeing you know a consistent you know double knee drop or hop into it every time and and we're not,
00:28:19
Speaker
um kind of making progress in correcting that. It's like, okay, so how can I scaffold this up from from the base? And then, you know i look at, okay, so first step, drop that lead knee or, you know, eyes, hands, drop the lead knee and then push across and and be willing to kind of take a couple steps back to, you to get to to build that and scaffold that skill so they understand.
00:28:48
Speaker
And, um, and sometimes, you know, I guess one thing that I find really, really helps is gamification of certain things. Right. So where we can, you know, make a little mini challenge out of it, right. Like give me five of these good slides and then we can, I'll do a breakaway shot on you type thing or something, right. Just a little bit of a reward and, and, and, um,
00:29:11
Speaker
and yeah just ah make a game of Yeah, fair enough. So what are some of the differences then when you know we talk about youth and then adults when it comes to neurodivergence? Because I know like there's a lot of adult goalies out there that um maybe have never really had any structured coaching or anything like that. and you know maybe don't really know like what they themselves can do to navigate some of this stuff so what are kind of maybe some of the differences when we look more at the adult goalie side as opposed to the youth goalie side um you know i guess as far as a comparison between the two you know i i think the the biggest thing is you know adults would tend to have a little bit more of a toolbox as far as as
00:30:05
Speaker
understanding it, but not everybody, that's that's a fairly generalization, but at least understanding how they learn. So again, it's about curiosity, right? Even as even as the the kids get older um and um you know get into the the higher competitive things, one of the first things I ask is, okay, so which...
00:30:25
Speaker
ah what's How do you learn? you know Do you learn by reading? Do you learn by seeing? Do I have to show you some videos? do Do you like seeing pictures of of yourself in a stance? right Just different things like that and and understanding um their learning style is is extremely helpful in to improving that.
00:30:43
Speaker
um you know Spatial awareness, especially with the younger ones, you know might not might not be that strong. um So as you're trying to build spatial awareness and physical literacy and understanding of game flow, like that, that's a lot, right? So understanding how the individual learns is, um you know, is a great starting point for that.
00:31:07
Speaker
um Adults tend to be better at masking their symptoms than kids were used to having to be normal, but right?
00:31:19
Speaker
For lack of a better term, and that that took to function in in certain settings. So, you know, there might not be the same, i guess, openness to to you communicate that as well. Right. But really, i think with all of it comes down to connection.
00:31:40
Speaker
Yeah, fair enough.
Creative Training Approaches
00:31:42
Speaker
So kind of taking a step away from that then and just kind of going to goaltending in general, coaching in general, all of that stuff. um What do you think might be something that's ah you see is lacking with kind of the current generation of goaltending, or what do you think is something that, uh, just kind of your anecdotal thoughts on, uh, on what you think goalies in general, um, like the young goalies anyways, are, are maybe not doing enough of, or, uh, you know, and this isn't just neurodivergent, but, uh, just the, the goalie landscape in general, what do you think, uh,
00:32:27
Speaker
We need to be doing a better job of not nearly enough bad stacks.
00:32:34
Speaker
ah die I guess, you know, some of it a little bit with with um creativity um in in certain situations, I think.
00:32:45
Speaker
um And and. You know,
00:32:54
Speaker
I guess
00:32:58
Speaker
autonomy. um You know, that some of that decision making and is what i'm what I'm seeing a little bit is is kids are so technically strong. yeah oh You know, the way they they can the way they butterfly and move around the net and and even a lot of angles and technically there's They're so good.
00:33:21
Speaker
I wish I could skate you know um as good as most of the kids that I'm coaching right now. right So I think that's important. But yeah, it just made me some of that, some of that, the creativity within that I think is could use use some improvement.
00:33:41
Speaker
Yeah, I know Connor always talks about how much he hates the ah term cookie cutter goalie because, you know, it drives him nuts. But I do think there's a little bit of validity to that. Just, um yeah, we we kind of almost overcoach. And I know I'm guilty of this, too. Like, we're so analytical, it seems, as goaltenders that,
00:34:05
Speaker
you know we almost drill too deep sometimes and try and get an answer for everything when sometimes the answer is you know what just stop clock that's our job and that that is one thing that um i think the approach has changed for myself and kind of our organization as well and will continue to change because i still think we need to do a bit of a better job with that but um no that's i i definitely agree with that um With your knowledge and kind of research that you've done and and just talks with your wife and stuff like that, um when it comes to like and child learning, child development and stuff like that, what do you think you'd like to see differently in in how hockey approaches things with with development? um And it could just be hockey in general or if you think something like goalie specific.
00:35:04
Speaker
What do you think might you know help create a better learning environment for for these kids? I think kids need more time to free play in hockey.
00:35:15
Speaker
Yeah. um You know, there's the right now um there's. They go to practice and it's a it's feels like a pass fail, right? Like you you've got you have to do it this way. You're doing it wrong. You go to games.
00:35:34
Speaker
Right. And and there's it's it's always so always pressure of trying to do everything right. Where back when I was younger and, that you know, I'm going to be the old guy talking about the good old days here. But, um you know, you go out and and play shinny at the rink for four or five hours with different age groups of people and and just play.
00:35:56
Speaker
and make mistakes and try things that you could never try and practice or, you know, try in games. and And so I think that's missing, right? Just just that free play.
00:36:07
Speaker
I know when I was um coaching, you know, it was ah it was a house lead team, great group of kids. And when I found work better that season, if I let them play shinny for the first five, 10 minutes of practice,
00:36:21
Speaker
Instead of using it as a reward, okay, we're going to play shinny and just play and let them go. They were calling and communicating. They were doing all the things that we were trying to teach them, but it was in a low risk situation.
00:36:35
Speaker
Right. And, you know, I found for the, that group, it worked really well. Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. That's um I know, like just even listening to the Gulli Science podcast, like the the one host there, Ben, he yeah he does a lot of the research on youth development and and talks a lot about soccer being like that um and and all of that. But I do think the sport of hockey suffered, well, at least for North America, I don't know how it is overseas as much, but so just suffers from being too business driven, being too professional sometimes.
Hockey Development: Europe vs. North America
00:37:15
Speaker
And I get it to an extent, but yeah, when you're, when you're,
00:37:22
Speaker
Trying to lay someone's job on the line at somebody is getting paid basically a salary to be a coach and and deliver results. I feel like that the kids end up hurting a lot on that.
00:37:38
Speaker
um Just ah since we were kind of talking about Europe, um with your experiences going overseas, talking to a lot of the people over there and talking to people at the global goaltending retreat that you've gone to and stuff like that.
00:37:53
Speaker
um What do you think is one thing that that they're doing over there that we aren't over here in North America that seems to be making ah big difference or in your opinion, makes a big difference?
00:38:08
Speaker
So um I guess to to to preface it, I don't have a ah significant amount of exposure to the youth system. I've talked to a bunch of the coaches. They tend to be the from the older groups. What I have gathered, um and actually Justin Goldman has ah has a book on goalie development that his experience from when he went over to to Europe the first time comparing the two,
00:38:35
Speaker
um ah but But I guess it's from what I can see is one is that a lot of the countries don't start competitive hockey until i believe it's U15.
00:38:49
Speaker
um And then um another thing that I think there's an advantage to it, and I guess maybe this is a little bit close to personal experiences, a lot of them are subsidized. So costs of registration is lower.
00:39:03
Speaker
um You know, I guess i did one one exposure that I did have too in the um to um the International Hockey Symposium, the first time that I went to discovered that a lot of the coaches with in within the country as part of the system, you know, as mandatory training that they took every year. And then that way, i know at least in in Sweden where this was, was that all of the coaches have the same training and and they're all, you know, relatively close in in approach um and and theory, right? Whereas what I've seen with ah with a lot of minor hockey in Canada, part of it, the size of the country makes it more difficult to apply.
00:39:49
Speaker
But even just our association, every coach in our association as the kids were growing up had a different different approach, different thought process and and um and and kind of a different methodology to teaching the kids, right? So I think their consistency of approach is probably one of the biggest that I would say is the difference.
00:40:16
Speaker
Yeah, fair enough.
Advice for Goalies and Conclusion
00:40:18
Speaker
and Well, just kind of to start wrapping things up here, what do you think is kind of one big piece of advice that you have to the goalies out there?
00:40:30
Speaker
um Just based off of your experience, it doesn't have to be technical, but it can be if you want it to be just in general, like one piece of advice to to the goalies of the world out there.
00:40:44
Speaker
ah some really have fun. You know, drive drive for drive for improvement, you know you know, try to be, it's, and as I've gotten older, I'm finding it more and more fun to figure out what I'm capable of, you know, kind of push myself that way. Right. And and and have fun with the process.
00:41:06
Speaker
um But you know, I guess let's take the catastrophe out of a goal and, and use it as a learning experience and have fun with it. Right. Is, is I think my biggest for the young goalies.
00:41:21
Speaker
Yeah. I love that. Cause the whole point of the game is to score goals. So we, ah we almost hold ourselves to too high of a standard sometimes and, and can be a little too critical, but yeah,
00:41:36
Speaker
Thanks a bunch for joining us today, Billy. um It was awesome to kind of pick your brain a little bit and I'm sure we'll continue to have many good conversations moving forward. But so where can people find you and if they want to reach out and um maybe what we'll do too is if you have any resources or anything like that, um we can put them up in the show notes. But if anyone has any questions for you, where then can they find you?
00:42:04
Speaker
and So, uh, I'm on Instagram at doghousehockey. Um, at Facebook is, is doghousegoaltenderdevelopment. Um, and my website as well, dogashockey.ca.
00:42:17
Speaker
So they have all my, all my other information on there. So. Perfect. Sounds good. Yeah. And maybe um I'll grab some stuff that you have that we can put up for even just some papers or or references. I know you got those for for days in your repertoire. So we'll we'll grab a few things. We'll put them in the show notes for you guys.
00:42:37
Speaker
um As always, guys, thanks for tuning in. If you are listening on Spotify, make sure you guys leave us a rating and share the show with a friend. Hit that follow button.
00:42:49
Speaker
um If you're on YouTube, hit that subscribe button, that like button, leave us a comment. As always, you can reach out to us at goalies at truenorthgoaltending.com. We are on Facebook and TikTok at truenorthgoaltending and Instagram at yeggooliecoach.
00:43:07
Speaker
and our YouTube channel is also True North Goaltending as well. um We are fully booked up at our camp now, so if you guys want to see us in person, if you're in the Edmonton area, you can come to our facility for a session and check that out at truenorthgoaltending.com.
00:43:24
Speaker
Thank you for tuning in today, guys, and joining us. As always, take care and make some saves.