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057 - Dealing with Coaches, Scouts, Advisors, and Agents with Ethan Maertens-Poole
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Show notes are available at https://thediygoalie.com/pod057
This week we invite fellow True North Goaltending coach Ethan Maertens-Poole to talk about his experience as a head/assistant coach and scout. He shares his experience on what coaches and scouts are looking for in goalies and how to make a good impression. He also talks about finding the right team fit and how being in the right environment can lead to better success as a goalie.
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Transcript
Introduction to the DIY Goalie Podcast
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to the DIY goalie podcast where hosts and goalie coaches Nathan Park and Connor Monday share their insights on how to become a better goalie.
00:00:19
Speaker
Goalies, how's it going? I'm back in the driver's seat again. Welcome back to the DIY goalie podcast presented by True North Goaltending. How's it going? Nice to see you. Hopefully everybody is enjoying their offseason up to this point.
00:00:34
Speaker
Whether that be training, enjoying some time on the lake, going golfing, or whatever that may be. For myself, ah it's been been a little quiet. ah had ala Having more animal problems, which is always fun.
00:00:46
Speaker
But beyond that, it's it's
Guest Introduction: Ethan Martinspool
00:00:49
Speaker
a fun time. i am joined today by one of True Norse instructors and a good buddy of mine, Ethan Martinspool. Ethan, how you doing today, buddy?
00:00:59
Speaker
Doing really well. I actually got a little nervous there. i was like, is he going to say my last name right? Because most butcher it, but you did a good job there. So it's awesome. Thanks for having me. ah Well, glad to ah glad to have you here. i Ethan is one of our lead instructors with t True North Goaltending.
00:01:15
Speaker
Very knowledgeable guy. he's He's been all over the place when it comes to the hockey world, so we'll ah we talk about that today. Ethan, just tell us a little bit about yourself. What got you into hockey? What got you into goaltending?
Ethan's Hockey Journey
00:01:26
Speaker
And um we'll kind of go at it from there. Uh, hockey, that's a hockey is an interesting one. Cause my parents never played growing up, but, uh, my dad was an avid Oilers fan. So I, when I was younger, he, me and him would go watch a lot of hockey games.
00:01:41
Speaker
And I think my love of the game came from spending lots of time with him. So got into hockey that way and just kept playing. And then, uh, when I was not eight, nine, I got the opportunity to go live overseas for, uh, 14 months in Bangladesh.
00:01:56
Speaker
And, uh, when we came back that old, uh, That old folktale, if you don't know how to skate, go in net, I guess was the the way my parents went with it. So they threw me into a bunch of goalie schools and goalie clinics when we got back because I hadn't been on the ice in about a year and a half and ah took off from there.
00:02:13
Speaker
Quickly realized actually have to skate better to be a goalie. So it it it was a struggle at the start. But yeah, I love i loved being a goalie. I loved having i love playing hockey. So then tell me – so – like what i guess, like, what kind of levels of hockey did you play growing up?
00:02:33
Speaker
ah For me, I played Millwoods, I played Sierra, and then I actually never played rep hockey, to be honest with you, like funny enough. no So my last year of, I guess, U18 midget, but my last year midget, I played tier one.
00:02:48
Speaker
And then I played ah two years of junior B before my that one year of junior B, I was in Beaumont. ah The coach knew the coach in Olds, and they had a goalie that went down. So I got the opportunity to go play in Olds for about two months.
00:03:03
Speaker
And then for the rest of that season, I was off and on with Olds. I had a vehicle. I was 20. So just back and forth, bouncing back between Olds and in the Alberta Junior Hockey League and then with Beaumont.
00:03:16
Speaker
So that was that was a fun time. So for me, it was it was interesting getting that perspective of never playing rap hockey and then getting to play with some pretty cool players and Olds. It was really fun.
00:03:27
Speaker
That's interesting because I didn't i didn't know that. because so you So you and I might be cross-packed because I don't think – because you and I are about the same age, give or take. Yeah, I'm a 98. Okay, so I'm 98.
00:03:38
Speaker
So that's that's interesting because I i didn't like i didn't play rep hockey either, none of that AA, AAA stuff, and I transferred from Millwoods to Sierra come Bantam.
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah. Due to internal hockey politics and all that, but – No, that's that that's that's interesting. I didn't know that. um So then what led you to kind of pursue something after playing hockey?
Transition to Coaching
00:04:04
Speaker
um More specifically, you know, in our kind of social circle, we know you will we know you do a lot of things with as a head coach and an assistant coach. You're most recently, I think it was the assistant coach with MLAC U15, was it?
00:04:18
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Last year I helped out with the U15 team, yeah. Okay. So then, okay. So then what, go ahead. Yeah. I was going to say, so it, my, I guess my 20 year old of the year was actually kind of interesting. So when I was in olds for that part of the year, ah the other goalie there was actually 17.
00:04:34
Speaker
So you see the writing on the wall and you're backing up 17 old. and you sit there and you go okay yeah he's gonna play at a higher level than I ever will um but I think I just started to transition to watching the game and appreciating it from a different perspective uh because that's all I really ever saw in games I got to practice and I saw what competing in practice was like but I ah guess I I feel like I have a decently and analytical mind so that really kept me going in games when I wasn't playing is is watching the play and breaking down why our coaches were doing the things we were. We weren't the most skilled team, but we had some pretty good players and our best player was top five in the league in scoring.
00:05:14
Speaker
And he was doing some things right. And and watching our coach, Dana, Dana Lattery there and the buttons he was pushing. I think I really started to draw myself towards that a little bit more as as the year ended.
00:05:25
Speaker
So when that season ended, I kind of had the itch to figure out how to stay in hockey. I knew I was just going to go to school, but a buddy of mine, uh, Alex, we both decided we wanted to get into coaching.
00:05:37
Speaker
So we, uh, sent out our resumes together to every rep club. So like CAC, MLAC, Southside and KC. And so we were winning 21 and the only, and the only club that got back to us was CAC.
00:05:50
Speaker
So we, uh, Applied there and got to coach U16AA, I guess REM15AA, I guess is what it was called at the time. okay And loved it. I loved every moment of it being with the kids.
00:06:03
Speaker
I like the tactical side of the game. I like the personal growth you see in all the players when they come to you for questions and you guys can collaboratively work together. and think that just spawned my interest to keep going with it.
00:06:15
Speaker
And that's how it started, to be honest with you. And then my passion just continued to grow as I learned more. And I surrounded myself with people who were smarter than me that kept pushing me to be better. And I kept seeing results as I kept pushing myself. And it was it was a fun time for me.
00:06:32
Speaker
okay Okay. kind of a multi-part question for you here. not in our Not in our list of questions that we gave you, but one that kind of I was dealing with when I first started coaching. yeah when you when When you had applied to any of these teams, was there like was it specifically to be as a goalie coach or was it to be as just as an so assistant associate coach? And then I have a follow-up question for that.
00:06:57
Speaker
Yeah, so I applied to be an assistant coach because I think... i was a goalie I started goalie coaching from the time i was like 14 with Golden Net. And as much as I loved it, i don't think that was my I didn't think that was my path. So I wanted to try something else.
00:07:14
Speaker
um Also, I didn't want to pigeonhole myself into being a goalie coach. As well as I knew a lot of those clubs worked with like ATC or Golden the Net or Ian Gordon or Eli Wilson. So like i at that time, i was like, they have their club guys.
00:07:27
Speaker
So if I want to get onto to a staff, it would most likely be as an assistant coach. Okay. So then my follow-up to that would be then, because yeah you and I kind of share this connection with not playing high-ish level hockey.
00:07:41
Speaker
um Was there a little bit of... Oh, I don't know what the word that I'm looking for is, but but like a little bit of fear that, you know, like, am I really qualified to be coaching at this level, even though that I've never played at this level? I mean, like we see, we see a lot of coaches like that nowadays, but you and I both have kind of grew up in a time where like, there was a lot of like
Challenges in Coaching
00:08:06
Speaker
internal social circles. It's like the, the triple A kids stayed to all stay all together. Double A kids all stayed all together. And, you know, I saw that throughou throughout,
00:08:13
Speaker
high school and High school in particular. So when you go out and you reach out to these teams saying, hey, I want to be part of your staff, did you feel did was there a sense of like nervousness? Did you feel that your hockey background may not have lived up to the whatever the expectations is that these teams put out, for lack of better term?
00:08:31
Speaker
Yeah, I would say there was a little bit of that. um The big thing for me that I not i wouldn't say I can hang my hat on because it it was a cup of coffee, but being in olds and being surrounded in the billet environment and playing with some players that were going to go play Division One and and gotten in scholarships and I stopped negative 20 shots every time, but they put being in that environment and seeing the work ethic that they put into it.
00:08:55
Speaker
um I felt comfortable on that mental, on that preparation side. And then when I got hired on with CAC, I reached out to a buddy of mine, or I guess a mentor of mine, Blair Becker with core hockey.
00:09:08
Speaker
And honestly, like he didn't pay me that first summer. And I volunteered for every camp that he had to be a coach, just so I could hop on the ice with him. And at that time, he was the assistant coaching cameras with the Kodiaks.
00:09:22
Speaker
So he had junior players and AAA players galore out there with him. So I would say you the feeling that you're talking about, I had that all summer on the ice with those kids.
00:09:34
Speaker
But by the end of the summer, just because I was willing to listen and learn and grow, and I think that's something that young coaches sometimes... jump in thinking they know everything. But for me, i I decided to take a step back and watch Blair and just see how he did it. I felt super comfortable going into that season because I felt like I put the work in in the summer to be okay with it.
00:09:54
Speaker
Imposter syndrome was the word that I was looking for. There you go. yes yeah That's, that's, that's all right. Okay. So, um, I guess like this is more so local news over anything, but you were hired as the head coach for one of the MLAC teams um for the upcoming season.
00:10:13
Speaker
Yeah. I remember which level. So my, so forgive me on that. So
Identifying Talent in Goalies
00:10:17
Speaker
my question for you then is ah as a head coach and as a scout, cause you're also, you're also a scout for, believe it's the, Oh shoot. What is Wolverines?
00:10:25
Speaker
cameras likeddiia cameras all right cameras kodiaks same thing uh what are what are some things that you look for when you're scouting a goalie to bring on to the kodiaks or when you're scouting or when you're evaluating a goalie throughout tryouts to bring on to your team just kind of like is there anything that like are you looking at it from a from a goaltender's perspective or are you looking at it from the eyes of a head coach that's ah That's a good question. So like, I would say on ah on the goaltending side of it, it's probably the head coach perspective, because i think I think you can see into the eyes a little bit more of a head coach, because I am a head coach.
00:11:05
Speaker
And the first thing i look for is, it's kind of a feeling, but do I feel confident when I look at them in the net? Like, do they command the net? Like, are they...
00:11:16
Speaker
Are their movement sharp? Are they controlling the play? Are they going out to pucks and moving them with confidence? Or are they super timid in the net? Right. And I think if if they're timid in the net, regardless of if their movements are good.
00:11:30
Speaker
I just think that when the pressure comes and the bigger bodies come in front of the net, they're going to kind of retreat back into their net. And whereas the more aggressive, confident goalies are going to try and fight through that.
00:11:40
Speaker
And to be honest with you, you can, if you want to use an NHL example, look at Connor Hellebuck in the regular season versus Connor Hellebuck now. Like he just hopes for the best right now when there's traffic and looks the most unconfident you've ever seen a goalie.
00:11:55
Speaker
Yeah. In the regular season, he's going to win the Vezina. and And to me, that's the biggest thing I look for when I first see a goalie is, do do they are they confident, right? and And if they look confident, then you probably now give them a tick and go the other direction. Okay, what's their rebound control look like? Are they sucking pucks up? Are they square to every shot?
00:12:15
Speaker
What's their post play? But if I don't think they're confident, I kind of move on, to be honest. Like, that's the biggest thing. And so if you can portray that, even if you aren't confident and you aren't super great, I think there's a, to me, I would continue to watch.
00:12:29
Speaker
So then what about from a scout's perspective then? Cause like, obviously that's different. Cause you have to bring those findings to the head coach. Yeah. So from a scout's perspective with a goalie, the first thing and you look for is their movement.
00:12:39
Speaker
Like, are they, are they, are they crisp? Are they getting to pucks before the puck gets there? Are they reading the play and then getting themselves square? Or are they always getting to the puck last minute so they're flailing around?
00:12:51
Speaker
and And I think because you're looking at them at a level where if they were to go play in Camrose, the pace will be even faster. If they can't keep up to the pace where they're at, they're not going to be able to keep up to the pace at the Alberta Junior Hockey League level.
00:13:06
Speaker
So I guess just for dummies, basically, is it fair to say from a scouts perspective, you're looking at it as ah as a goaltending perspective? from i sort of does From a perspective. I would say that I'm looking from a scouts perspective.
00:13:22
Speaker
I'm looking at it from a goaltending perspective of, Hey, are their movements crisp? Are they, are they calm in the net? Like those different things. ah And confident, unconfident goalies can be the same way.
00:13:33
Speaker
um But from, yeah. So I would say from a goal, from a scouts perspective, when I look at it, I look from a goaltending perspective and it lose back when I go, yeah. What what was I not? And let's go from there. Gotcha.
00:13:44
Speaker
yeah So being the being the the the analytical guy that you are, you're a big believer in finding goalies, or of goalies finding the right fit and sit situation and or situation for them. Why is that, and how can that affect their performance?
00:13:58
Speaker
ah Because I've seen it firsthand, coaching goalies that thrive in certain situations and then don't thrive in others. um And I think the big belief the big thing on that is just the way they've played.
00:14:13
Speaker
in the past and then the situation that they're putting themselves in. If you've always been – I'm not throwing MLAC under the bus, but if you've always been a part of MLAC and you're facing 50, 60 shots night – your program to face lots of shots. So if you go to a program where you're facing 25 shots a night, that's a massive adjustment to keep yourself focused for lots of the game when you're not facing shots and you're so used to always being on high alert, knowing that the puck's coming your direction.
00:14:42
Speaker
It's really hard to train yourself to be focused when you your team's carrying the play most of the time. And in those situations, you're not You're not expected to make 50 save, but you're expected to make that big save.
00:14:54
Speaker
And if you aren't used to doing that, it's going to very hard for you to do that in that moment. So I think a lot of lot of players that I talk to, not not not only goalies, but players, but goalies especially, they get so wrapped up in wanting to wear the jersey of a certain team that they don't look at the way they play or the way the coach plays and go, hey, is this a good fit for me?
00:15:17
Speaker
Instead of I just want to wear the jersey. And I coached a kid who who flamed out in Spruce Grove. And that's a very good program. And he went to ah program, in another Junior A program, where they where they gave up lots of shots and he flourished. And he was awesome out there.
00:15:32
Speaker
And looked like the goalie that played before. He just struggled in Spruce Grove facing 20 shots a night. we see that We see similar stuff with that, particularly more in the the um like the outer the outlaw league sort of things. like and Here in Alberta, it's the HSL and the PHL, right? like yeah i had i had a goalie parent reach out to me what was this probably about a couple months ago now asking me about what would be the best fit for their, ah for their child. And cause like every, every program in hockey in general will say, you you should come to us because we're this, this and that.
00:16:09
Speaker
Right. Everybody, they, they all, they all use the same slogan, like development time and consistent ice time and this, this and that, which is great on some levels, not so great on others.
00:16:23
Speaker
So the advice that I gave her is you're going to want to find something that's, that's going to be the best fit for, for your athlete. First off, where where does your athlete want to go?
00:16:36
Speaker
But then also what would be the best fit for the family, for lack a better term, right? Like what's really, you do obviously don't want to be going into a program that's going to be causing a lot of outward or internal drama.
00:16:46
Speaker
You also don't want to be going to a program where you have a team that's going to promise you, oh yeah, you're going to play... insert X amount of games here. Right.
00:16:58
Speaker
And then turns out to be the opposite, right? You want to, you want to, you you want to make sure that you have that open communication. and So I mean, just that's, that's what we see a lot of it nowadays. And particularly with the amount of ah organizations or programs that are out, not only just in Alberta, but just in the entirety of Canada in general, they' we're starting to see a lot more of,
00:17:25
Speaker
lot lot of people second guessing kind of what they want to do or where they're going.
Evaluating Hockey Programs
00:17:29
Speaker
Yeah. And I think, I think you've, the family piece is what's made like that CSSHL such a, ah such a prominent option is we don't have time to take our kid to practice at 7. PM or 8. PM or 9. PM. So if I can take my kid to a school where I pick them up at three 30 and they've had practice, they've,
00:17:51
Speaker
done their schoolwork and they've done their workout and they can just come home that's what's made that such a prominent thing for a lot of people obviously the cost is a big barrier for them and that's another thing when you talk about the right fit is are you willing to shell out thirty thousand dollars for one year of hockey if you don't have that and and I think that's Something where when you look at the other options, you start I would start looking at who's the goalie coach.
00:18:18
Speaker
Like, who is the goalie coach? Is it someone you've worked with before? Is it someone that comes on the ice frequently? Is it someone that's willing to be collaborative? Like, I think there's too many coaches that...
00:18:30
Speaker
they have a cookie cutter way of wanting to do it. And if you don't fit that cookie cutter way, it's unfortunate. You're just never going to, you're not going to be come the goalie that you want to be with them. It's finding a coach that wants to be collaborative with you and work with you. Cause ultimately you're the one that has to play.
00:18:45
Speaker
and And if you don't feel comfortable in the net, you're not going to make a lot of saves. And I think that's, that's the one thing where now these parents having so many options, you got to ask those questions. You can't just look at the record of the team before,
00:19:00
Speaker
Or who who was there before you, because that's not the that's not who you are. And you have to ask those questions of why what are you going to do to help my development? And why why are you a good fit for me?
00:19:13
Speaker
And I think parents got to start asking that a little bit more. So then what can goalies and parents do to, so what what can goalies and parents do when looking for teams to help them find a better fit?
00:19:34
Speaker
I think that like I, like every kid that I've, that I've talked to that is speaking to a team or a coach, I, I tell them to ask the question of how are, what are you going to do to help my development?
00:19:45
Speaker
Like, what are you, how are you going to help me other, other than telling me that I'm going to play 50% of the games? What's the other days look like? Like what, what's the rest of that look like?
00:19:57
Speaker
um I think don't get sucked into what other families are doing. I think each family and each kid is different. Like we talked about, everyone has a different fit. ah Don't go, well, my buddy's going there. I got to go there too.
00:20:10
Speaker
ah Cause you to take ownership of your own development at some point. And so to me is I would try lots of things. I would go to different places. I would reach out to different teams. And I'm saying that speaking from a head coach of a club team, I want you to see what a CSSHL team looks like or what a JPHL team looks like. I want you to explore your options so that when you know and that when you come back to us, you you know, it's the right fit.
00:20:35
Speaker
And to me, that's what parents that's what would be what I would ask of parents is start asking those hard questions. And depending on the age of the kid, have the kid ask that question because he's the one that's going go on the ice. kind of similar to like getting a quote on, I know we're supposed to be getting our windows done here, right? Like we, you have company A, B and C, right? So you get company a company is going to offer, or even like buying a car, right? You have company A that's going to offer you this much for your trade-in.
00:21:03
Speaker
You have company B that's going to offer you maybe a little bit less, but they're also promising free internal cleaning for year or whatever. And then company C is, we'll just take the car at face value and not give you anything else basically. Right.
00:21:18
Speaker
So it's similar in, in, in, in that aspect, right? Like, again, like Ethan was just saying, like I did hear of a story. I can't remember where it was or where I heard it from, but it was a similar idea. It's like, go off, like you want to come play with us. Okay, fine. But you go off and see what other options that you have out there and see if there's anything that's going to be a better fit for you. If not, then come back to us and we'll talk.
00:21:42
Speaker
right It can't just be, oh, because ah team a is Team A won the division last year. they They've had a successful program for the last X amount-ish years or whatever. Okay, yeah, that's a program that you want to go to. Okay, but is that going to be is that going to be viable for you in the long run of your career?
00:22:01
Speaker
amount of times, and even then, like in june like in junior hockey, as an example, um you know, you saw, I saw a lot of, and again, this is one of those outlaw league team player things, so take this with a grain of salt.
00:22:13
Speaker
um we we there was There was a lot of player switching. There was a lot of a lot of player movement happening around, and that was just more so just because of just trying to find, some of them wanted to play with their buddies, some of them wanted to find a better team or better fit for for their development, for for how they play.
00:22:30
Speaker
So there is kind of that give and take and pick and choose your battles, I guess, is kind of the the moral of the story there. Yeah, 100%. And I think the other side of it, too, though, is don don't run from it because it's going to be hard work.
00:22:45
Speaker
Like, I think that's the other thing that families and kids do now is they tick pick the easiest option, the guaranteed option, instead of going, okay, I mean i have to earn this.
00:22:56
Speaker
I think earning something is not a bad thing. means you wanted it and you went out and got it. And if you want to talk about scouting, I'd rather a kid have to go earn everything than just be handed everything because eventually you got to earn it.
00:23:09
Speaker
And if you've never done that before, it's always been handed to you. you're not You're not going to be able to have the tools to navigate through those hard times. And that's where you see kids flame out at junior is when they've had that path just handed to them until they get there.
Earning Positions in Hockey
00:23:24
Speaker
And all of a sudden now they're the third string goalie on a junior team after being the starter on whatever team they were at U18 and they are only they're only dressing every third game, they're only playing four games that season, and they just quit because it's too hard and they don't want to fight through it, even though they know they might be the guy of the next year that's too far away, is if you think the program's the right fit for you and if you see the you see eye to eye with what the coach is doing, you agree in the development, stick it out, try it.
00:23:55
Speaker
try and make Try and earn it because I think that's going to help you out in the long run. And you you look at, like, obviously the Western Hockey League draft was today. And the same amount of players on a five-win U15 AAA team got drafted as the 24-win U15 AAA team.
00:24:12
Speaker
So you don't have, like, you just have to find the right fit for you and then go out there and make the team.
00:24:23
Speaker
Yeah, that's interesting. ah Okay, so I guess just kind of jumping into this next one here, just because it kind of goes hand in hand. What tips do you have as a coach and as a scout for goalies to make a good impression? ah It's interesting. So this is hockey Alberta through and through, and I've taken this, but ah carry your own bag into the rink.
00:24:45
Speaker
like don't like take that It starts right there for me, to be honest with you. If you are walking in by yourself and your parents, obviously this is age appropriate. If you're six years old, that's a little different, but if you're age appropriate and you're, you're walking in with a water bottle and your parents are carrying your gear to me, it just shows like, maybe, maybe you're just there and to have some fun.
00:25:07
Speaker
Right. And that's okay. But if you're trying to make a team like, Hey, show up, maybe don't wear a hat, maybe wear the right clothes and carry your bag in. Like to me, that's a really good first impression, uh, on the ice, be on time.
00:25:20
Speaker
Right? Ask lots of questions. And for a goalie, do a warm-up. Like, I'm not a, like, I hate, I don't hate's the wrong word, but it's I find it very odd when goalies just throw themselves into a net and then just start getting lit up.
00:25:35
Speaker
like Like, warm yourself up. if you if i watch If I'm watching a skate and there's 16 goalies on the ice and you hop out ah on the ice, you find your spot and you actually have a warm-up to get yourself ready to play, to me that that shows that you've taken ownership in your development.
00:25:51
Speaker
So those would be my three things. would be come with a plan, which is kind of what that warm-up is. Walk in like you're trying to make a good first impression with the clothes, like wear a nice collared shirt and pants and you're not wearing socks and sandals and a backwards hat.
00:26:06
Speaker
And ask lots of questions.
00:26:10
Speaker
Cut your hair too, is what I'll say. I'm old fashioned like that. or so style Or style your long hair. Don't just let it just hang there. Yeah. ah The amount of times I've seen that.
00:26:21
Speaker
um Yeah. So I guess then just kind of moving on from that as well is that we had a, we had walking gauge on the show close to about a year ago now.
00:26:32
Speaker
And so when we were talking about kind of his journey into, into pro hockey and stuff, we were kind of talking about cold calling a
Effective Communication for Players
00:26:40
Speaker
little bit. Yeah. So, I mean, obviously it's different nowadays compared to when Gager played.
00:26:47
Speaker
So for you, what would be the right way for goalies and or families um to reach out to scouch coaches, GMs, if they are cold calling about spots?
00:26:58
Speaker
So are I guess I'll ask your question. The question, like how old are we talking here? So, okay, so let's let's say, I guess, um moving right into whatever the the age level is now to move into the, to move into the oh God, for lack a better our term, skill development stream.
00:27:17
Speaker
That's not the word I'm looking for, but you know you know what I'm saying. Yeah, so like 15, 16, you're talking like that? like yeah Yeah, whatever. Yeah, so like like if you were we're we're at the point now where, Bantam drafts may be happening or yeah in about that age age range where kids at 15 can start playing into in into juniors. kind of what's the What would be your kind of
00:27:41
Speaker
kind of roadmap for doing that approach? Yeah. Yeah, so it's funny because we actually at our U15 ID skate, we had a kid that we, for MLAC there,
00:27:52
Speaker
We need kid that couldn't come for a couple of the days, but wanted to come for the exit meeting. And the dad had, I talked to the dad and then I sit in there and I get an email from the kid coming from the dad's account, but it's from the kid saying, Hey coach, I couldn't make it today.
00:28:08
Speaker
i have baseball. I made my baseball team. I love multi-sport athletes, but that's besides the point. um But I would love to come for the the exit meetings on Sunday. What time do you want me there?
00:28:20
Speaker
This, this is a 13 year old kid. So what I'm trying to get at is if you're a parent cold calling a junior coach, I think that you the boat's already kind of sailed.
00:28:31
Speaker
ah Because I don't think a lot, you're the coach is never working with the parent, the coach is working with the kid. So I would start it off with saying it should be coming from the kid. Hey, if you want to help him write or her write the letter, that's awesome. But it should never come from a parent.
00:28:47
Speaker
Because at some point, the kids got to advocate for themselves. But the way I would do it is I would reach out and I would introduce myself and I would ask to have a phone call. and And I think to me, that sets you apart right away.
00:29:00
Speaker
If you're just sending out blanket asks to go to camp, you'll probably get the invite because camps, for lack of the better term, are cold calls. uh our cash grabs right but if you want to make an impression i would ask to have a phone conversation because i think to me that shows a level of maturity that you need to have to be an effective player so i would email the the usually the gm or the assistant gm is on the list and on the website and i would shoot them an email and and introduce yourself say who you are where you played
00:29:32
Speaker
what makes you someone that would be a good fit for their culture. and And I would say, hey, can we have a conversation? I'd love to ask you a few more questions and see if this would be a good fit for myself and for you guys.
00:29:45
Speaker
We'll jump back into that in a moment. We are doing this in the middle of the Edmonton Oilers game, game two against the Vegas Golden Knights. Jake Wallman just scored to tie the game. Look at that. oh There we go.
00:29:56
Speaker
new Newly acquired defenseman for the Oilers, Jake Wallman, putting his name in the and the books here for as part of Oilers playoff history. So you can appreciate that.
00:30:06
Speaker
Plus, he's a wizard. That guy, thiss leading I think he's leading the playoffs with plus minus. So, like, talk about an impactful player. he's a he Yeah, he's he's a very good defenseman. Well, the owner the owners did well there, but their decor is still a little little shady at times.
00:30:23
Speaker
um So yeah I like that approach. And I guess just kind of to back on a story about that, just not necessarily pertaining to that kind of – um
00:30:35
Speaker
kind of thing but very long time ago and I've told this on a couple of other podcasts um where it was got it in my kind of final year of playing it got to a point where I was put on a ah put on a team or put in ah in a tier that I had no business being in whatsoever and obviously internal hockey politics this this and that but it had gotten to a point where I was tired of the person who we were who my family was dealing with just kind of giving the run around so I had decided to to take it upon myself to try to call this guy and be like, Hey, what, what the hell is going on?
00:31:10
Speaker
Basically. because like, obviously, I mean, you and I have both dealt with it, you know, we get overzealous parents and we, we, we play the, the, the, the sales person, you know, the, the customer service friendly face and, and all that. And you try to, you try to appease the, appease the masses.
00:31:28
Speaker
But I had at that point in time, I had felt that, okay, maybe well, maybe if it's coming from me, maybe, itll maybe it might be the same answer, might be a different answer, but at least it'll can, it can show and then I can tell the story later that I wasn't happy with where I was playing. i wanted to be moved up to a more appropriately leveled tier and then just kind of see what happens from there.
00:31:52
Speaker
The point of the story being is like Ethan had said, is that if you're able to, guess for lack of better term, do things for yourself and be able to um kind of handle your own business in an aspect that goes a long way with coaches.
00:32:07
Speaker
Oh, a hundred percent. and And even if he didn't give you the answer you wanted, at least he remembers you now. And I think that's a good thing is you, you want to be remembered, especially when you're trying to move your way up through hockey. There's so many people and it just eventually pyramids. And if you don't, if you're not memorable, you're, you're going to be replaced. So it, it at least puts you in the back of their mind. And if it, if it doesn't work out for you in that moment,
00:32:36
Speaker
next year or the year after, if you reach back out, they're going to go, I remember that guy. I remember he had reached out to me and maybe his skill level it wasn't quite there yet, but I love the moxie. He had to ah least push.
00:32:48
Speaker
Like we, we, funny story. We had a kid at camera spring camp who asked to come via LinkedIn. He i made his own LinkedIn account and private messaged our head scout and our head scout said, sure, come on out, show me what you got.
00:33:06
Speaker
I loved it. Yeah. Kid, kid from the States. He was coming up to see his parents or his grandparents or something. and He said, hey coming up see my grandparents. i'm bringing my hockey gear with me. I'd love to come to your guys' this spring camp. I saw that you guys are there the weekend that I'm there.
00:33:19
Speaker
And he got an in invite. Yeah. He got an invite. So, but wasn't his parents that did it. It was him. And I think the, I think Brock respected that. That's interesting. That's, that's, that's awesome.
00:33:32
Speaker
I like that. Cause LinkedIn, not like late LinkedIn's great. I don't use it a whole lot. I have it, but it's great. But for, for, for him to make his own LinkedIn account, reach out that way. That's, that's awesome.
00:33:45
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Okay. So before I move into this next question here, because you brought up LinkedIn kind of has something setting off in motion for me. So I want to ask him about it.
00:33:57
Speaker
Social media, obviously in today's day and age, ah a massive, massive, massive, massive massive thing.
Social Media in Recruitment
00:34:03
Speaker
And there are plenty of programs or websites like LinkedIn.
00:34:08
Speaker
Facebook is is another huge one. where there's a lot of, um, a lot of, uh, like those, like those junior hockey or those, uh, those recruitment pages for, ah for, for, for one, or those are recruitment accounts.
00:34:23
Speaker
What would be your, um kind of rules or guidelines when it comes to, if you're going to post on Facebook or you're going to, ah you're going to reach out to one of these coaches that are on Facebook or whatever to,
00:34:41
Speaker
get a tryout or a camp invite or to to come out and play for their team what would be your guy what what would be your opinion or your assessment when it comes to reaching out to those guys and by proxy then what would be your um opinion or your your your your guideline or however you want to put it for when you have a program or an agent or a recruitment page reaching out to the athlete saying, Hey, come play for us.
00:35:16
Speaker
So are you, so you're talking more of the, I guess the, ah so like as a player reaching out via social media, correct I would say to be, I would say if it's a post, cause I've seen, there's a couple of places where you can post, Hey, I'm so-and-so I'm looking for a place to play.
00:35:30
Speaker
but ah To be honest with you, I probably scroll past those more than I look at them um because I think if you're doing that, you're just hoping that something lands.
00:35:41
Speaker
I still think the more personalized approach is good. There'll be teams that are desperate and looking for players that will always reach out. But I think you're kind of, if you're posting there and you're just hoping that someone reaches out to you, you go back to being in,
00:35:55
Speaker
drama-free situations, you're probably not putting yourself into a drama-free situation. if you If you have a team that is scrolling through social media, looking for players that are posting to the masses, I would still say the best way to do it would be to send a private message if you're if that's the way you have to communicate with somebody. And and again, that goes back to the other thing is ask to have a conversation.
00:36:18
Speaker
um In regards to I guess agents or firms reaching out to you over social media. I don't know if I really entertain that as a parent or a family.
00:36:30
Speaker
Good agents or good advisors will take the time and the effort to reach out to you personally. Because I think that you and you have to understand like that relationship has to be a good personal relationship too.
00:36:43
Speaker
Because they're trying to sell you. And they should they so they should be able to take the time and effort to send you an email or give you a phone call and do it through an actual channel that's not Facebook or or a social media platform. That would be my take on it is be wary of the things that you find on there. Be wary of putting yourself out there on a social media platform because I just don't know if you're going to get a super positive return on it.
00:37:08
Speaker
2-1 Vasily Podcolson making it for the others now. Yeah. We'll give, we're, we're, we're getting where to be like, this episode is going to come out a week later, but we're giving live, live updates as we go. So yeah, the Oilers are either in the set in the third round or out by then, but, uh, they're going to be living the glory days or setting them up for round three.
00:37:29
Speaker
Exactly. um i I mean, I'm a big social media user. Obviously, doing the podcast is one is part of that. um But i yeah I would agree with you that you you got you got to be careful with with what you see out there.
00:37:47
Speaker
I mean, I'm in those Facebook groups just to see what's going on. try to stay Try to stay relatively away from it as best as I can, but just to kind of see what's what's happening, I guess.
00:38:01
Speaker
um But yeah, like there's, I've seen, I've seen a few posts on there, or even then like some of those, like those parent, those hockey parent groups, excuse me, where, you know, even then like it's similar to a cold call where it's like, they'll send like massive T like teams or um agencies or whoever will send out these, these invite programs.
00:38:23
Speaker
And then it it ends up just being a cash cow either way. Yeah. Yeah. I would say if it doesn't have your name attached to it and it's not a personalized, if someone didn't take the time to reach out to you, then yeah it's not worth the, it's not worth it.
00:38:38
Speaker
If it looks like it's written by chat GPT, don't answer. Yeah. Yeah. Cause then it got sent to a thousand people.
00:38:46
Speaker
So then I guess then and because kind of transitioning away from that, like we, we've all talked about it. It's on every podcast that you see out there. It's on Facebook. I mean, we talk about it as coaches internally as well.
00:39:00
Speaker
What are the do's and don'ts for goalie parents when dealing with coaching staff, scouts, and even before making the team and also while being on the team?
Parent-Coach Interactions
00:39:09
Speaker
ah Do's and don'ts. I would, I would say for, for do's when you're dealing with the coaching staff,
00:39:15
Speaker
or a scout, um
00:39:19
Speaker
I would say ask questions. I think set your expectation of what you're looking for. um If you haven't made the team yet, just say, hey, this is what we're looking for. This is what we're this is what the expectation is.
00:39:32
Speaker
um But don't – I wouldn't set demands. Like I think that's where you start. Everybody's a human. People will have human emotions, and if as a parent you're trying to demand something – of a coaching staff, it's going to bring the their backs up against the wall right away.
00:39:49
Speaker
If you set up an expectation of, hey, this is what our son is good at, this is what he this is what he helps this is what helps him succeed, what we believe in what you do, et cetera, et cetera, like I think that's a better way of going about it.
00:40:02
Speaker
I understand that players, goalies and well goalies, and parents are always looking out for their best interests. I think there's sometimes this battle that everybody thinks that they's They're competing. They always want what's best for their kid.
00:40:14
Speaker
But I think you have to understand that there's that's mutual from the coaching staff usually as well. ah So that collaborative approach is super important, I think. Um, but don't demand things like that's the biggest thing is you can set your expectations, but pose it in a positive way where the coaching staff can rally around it too.
00:40:33
Speaker
Um, and ask lots of questions. I think that's the best way to get a coaching staff's view on things because I think as a parent or as a goalie, you're wanting to so know what the coaching staff is going to be all about.
00:40:45
Speaker
So asking questions and leaving room for the staff to, explain what their vision is i think is an important piece as well so then what about the don'ts the don'ts um yeah that's a good question like do's and don'ts of goalie parents or goalies uh it's like because like obviously we see as an example is that you don't want to be confrontational about it again, like like you had talked about earlier, you know, you don't, you're obviously looking out for the best interest of your kid, but if you become too involved, then that can create a negative light for the kid because you're the, you're the proxy.
00:41:27
Speaker
yeah Right. And obviously we're in the hockey world travels fast. Yeah. So like, ah like, obviously that's, that's a given one, but just kind of what would some other ones be?
00:41:39
Speaker
So let's break it down into goalies. So don't don't be a goalie that cheers for your partner to not be successful. like I've had lots of goalie partners that were upset when I played a good game because they didn't that meant that they didn't get to play.
00:41:55
Speaker
like I think that's ah that's a big thing. And I've dealt with a couple situations this year where the the goalie partners, the goalies are at each other's throats all year because they were like cheering for the other goalie to not have success when they're in the net because they're making it about themselves. So I guess that would be the the the short end is don't make it about yourself.
00:42:13
Speaker
Like you're you're a vital part of the team, but it is a team ah from a goalie perspective. ah Don't be high maintenance. um I think that's another one. ah There that we had, ah we had, a I had a goalie that when I coached that,
00:42:27
Speaker
his big thing is he, he got, he psyched himself out too much if he knew when he was playing. So he needed to know right after warmup, otherwise he was not going to be able to play. Well, he lasted with our team for probably another couple of days, because if you're mentally, if you mentally can't handle knowing that you're playing a hockey game, well then what are we doing here? Right? So ah that would be one is don't be high maintenance.
00:42:50
Speaker
Let, let the things come to you. um Because, Coaches have so much. I think coaches are trying to do what's best for the team and sometimes having a goalie that's always asking, am I starting next or who's playing now or what's going on here?
00:43:05
Speaker
I think that sometimes makes you needy and I think that rubs coaches the wrong way. So those would be my two big don'ts for goalies is is don't be high maintenance because i just see that.
00:43:18
Speaker
as You can have your expectations, but don't be always with at the coach. I think sometimes I was guilty of that, as I always wanted to play. So I'd always be asking the coach when I was playing next, when in reality it it didn't change anything. So I think just let that come to you sometimes.
00:43:33
Speaker
And don't be ah don't be a teammate that's not cheering on your partner. um from a play from a From a parent perspective is kind of the same thing. Don't don't be high maintenance. like Don't be someone that needs justification for every decision that gets made, that you need that needs you to have a conversation every time.
00:43:54
Speaker
you make a decision because I've dealt with that before too, where you go, okay, the player a starting instead of player B and then player B needs an explanation every time as to why player B wasn't getting to play that game.
00:44:08
Speaker
And at some point you have to go, my kid has to play and, and he's got to advocate for himself. Those, those would be my big ones is, is don't always be talking to the coach because then I think there's a problem there if that's what's happening.
00:44:26
Speaker
So the do there for that, and we talked about this on previous podcasts would be just as a parent, be a fan, be a supporter. Don't be a,
00:44:38
Speaker
don't lay like, like, don't, don't be that, don't don't be that second head on the kid's shoulders, right? Just yeah and advocate for them, but, but don't fight their battles. Like, I think that's like, they, they, they, you can be their biggest advocate, but you have to let them that you have to let them kind of dictate their career because if you're the one that's leading the charge, eventually you are become the problem.
00:45:03
Speaker
And, and unfortunately your kid pays for it. We see ah there's there's a lot of that, and we've seen a lot of that. um Okay, so then at what point then do you think it makes sense for goalies to get an advisor or an agent?
When to Hire an Advisor or Agent
00:45:22
Speaker
but If you are 17 years old and you don't have any offers and you want to play junior hockey. that That to me is the answer. You like you saw it today. So today is a prime example as to unfortunately why advisors maybe aren't so great at this age.
00:45:38
Speaker
you're going to, if you are good enough, you're going to be found. And the Western Hockey League draft today had kids who played prep, poo played jpa l who played who played U15 AAA, but also kids that played U15 AA got drafted today.
00:45:52
Speaker
And so I think, You have to let the scouts do due process. if they're If you're good, you're going to be found. ah So don't I wouldn't sink money into an advisor until you're kind of at that point where you're in your last year of minor hockey and you still can't find any traction.
00:46:09
Speaker
To me, that is when I would be looking. The other option is... and this is either an advisor or trusted third party, if you're getting lots of interest, then maybe it's time to bring someone in so that we can go back to what we talked about at the beginning, which is finding the right fit for you.
00:46:26
Speaker
If you have lots of opportunities, then it's time to find the right fit. And if you don't feel comfortable doing that on your own, then maybe bringing someone in that can advocate for you and help you with that process would be a good idea as well.
00:46:39
Speaker
Okay. So then if going that road, then i guess, I guess before any and all that we should clarify, I mean, most people should know, but for those who don't should clarify what it is that an agent does, what it is that an advisor does.
00:46:52
Speaker
And then going on to third questionnaire, which we can talk about afterwards. And I can reiterate is that if you do decide to go down the road where you want to grab it, where you want to get an advisor or an agent, what should goalies do to ensure that they find a good fit for an advisor or an agent?
00:47:07
Speaker
So, and yeah, so the advisor component is somebody who's ah under the age of 18. Like, they're not profiting. And, and like, can an agent profits on the the money that the client makes, whereas an advisor does not. Like, an advisor is just there to help them make decisions, but ultimately will not make the decision for them. Like, if – so when I was in Pilot Mound, we worked with and a couple advisors who basically just were the intermediary between talking to me and the talking to the family.
00:47:38
Speaker
Like they would reach out to me on behalf of the family, but I still would have to talk to the family afterwards. So they were just there to get the word out that that player was looking for a place to play. Whereas an agent would actually do all the communicating on behalf of their client to get the deals done and things like that. So advisors are basically what you're seeing in junior hockey because no one's getting paid to to play.
00:48:01
Speaker
Um, it In regards to finding the right fit, I would almost has i would almost say it's the exact same as a team. Talk to lots of advisors and ask them how they've worked with goalies before.
00:48:15
Speaker
ah Look at advising firms and see what they've done with their goalies. Have they have they put goalies at the next level? ah Do they advocate for their goalies? Do they have someone dedicated to working with goalies?
00:48:27
Speaker
Because, again, if you don't have someone who knows the goaltending world, how are they How are they supposed to know those questions about the right fit with the team if they've never done that before?
00:48:38
Speaker
So if you're just getting an advisor who works with players encompassing goalies, I don't know if they're going to have the same depth of knowledge as if it's at a firm that has a dedicated guy who just...
00:48:50
Speaker
works with goalies but I would shop around and ask questions and ask them what they're going to do for you and and how they are going to advocate for you uh because they need to have connections you know that's the whole point of being an advisor is that you got lots of connections in the junior world and you need to know that they have that so you got to ask the right questions to get to that that that answer
00:49:14
Speaker
So then i guess then because I got I got a couple more here for you kind of off off the off the off the books here.
Networking and Building Resilience
00:49:22
Speaker
um I guess one would be just kind of what's like for you as a scout and then dealing with all like the advisors and the agents and stuff.
00:49:31
Speaker
because we, we, we did a podcast on networking a while ago for you. How important is that? What's kind of your tips for proper networking and um just kind of putting yourself out there for goalies for goalies.
00:49:47
Speaker
Yeah. For networking, I would say, say yes to all the, like, if you can get your chat yourself out there to go to a camp, I would do it. Like, because,
00:50:00
Speaker
the The world that you're in, everybody knows everybody. Like it's coaches get recycled and that's not just in junior or not just in the NHL. That's, that's everywhere. Right. So, but you might go to a camp in Canmore or let's just say you go, you come to an MLAC camp and we let you go.
00:50:16
Speaker
But I know that you're a really good player. Well, I'm going to try my best to find you a place to play because I believe in you. um Same thing at junior. You might go to Canmore and they don't have a fit for you, but they like you. So they're going to try and find a spot for you in Bonneville because Bonneville needs a goalie.
00:50:32
Speaker
um If you have the the wherewithal to get out there and talk to people or get out there and go to camps, I would do it. and And stay after and talk to the coaches and get to know them because – Advisors are awesome and they do really good work, but coaches also know coaches.
00:50:50
Speaker
And if you can come to a core hockey camp and you're taking shots from Blair Becker and afterwards you hang back for 20 minutes and talk to him, like, and he likes you, he's going to try and help you find a place to play. So if you have the opportunity to get on the ice and and talk to some people, i would do it and just create conversations. That would be my, so um that would be my big advice.
00:51:11
Speaker
Don't, you don't have to go out there and source it, but if you're in a spot to do it, I would do it. Yeah, no, that's um that's great. I guess just kind of like um finishing off here for today, just what would be your one piece of advice for goalies out there?
00:51:28
Speaker
Oh, I've had this one locked and loaded. i Learn how to bounce back from tough situations. So the mental side of the game, because you're only as good as your first bad game.
00:51:41
Speaker
And you see that at all levels. And I see that all the time. And I'm hoping I see it in tryouts this year. I want to see our goalies not have success at some point and see how they bounce back from it.
00:51:54
Speaker
Because the good ones will bounce back and the ones that aren't quite ready yet will crumble. So develop those mental skills or those skills to help you calm back down and get refocused.
00:52:06
Speaker
but that's that That's a huge one. And I think like it shows for coaches, doesn't matter who, head coaches, assistant coaches, goalie coaches, general managers, whoever.
00:52:17
Speaker
I think it shows that like if you aren't afraid to fail, then...
00:52:26
Speaker
Just don't be afraid to fail, I guess, is just kind of the the the point there that needs to be made because it's it it shows that you're willing to learn, you're willing to grow, and you're human, right? You're not – I mean, there's only select few players, and I use players as a generalized term that are – players like Connor McDavid, as an example, or ah Martin Broder, or when he was playing or Jeremy Swayman or whoever, right? Because like obviously throughout, at some point, those guys made mistakes.
00:52:58
Speaker
Connor McDavid still makes mistakes on occasion with the Edmonton Oilers, Jeremy Swayman, same deal. All those guys are all, all ah they're all, they they all make mistakes, but that's because they're all human as much as they are superhuman sometimes. So don't be afraid to fail. And I think,
00:53:14
Speaker
For somebody like Ethan in a position that he's in, obviously, that's something that he is looking for. Now, obviously, don't go and lay an egg, but that's kind of the generalization there is that if you're showing that you're willing to grow, then obviously, it's going to go a way for you.
00:53:33
Speaker
it's going to go a long way for you You're 100% right. So we have three things this year that we're going to live by, and and the one is fail hard. And when we say that, it means fail because you tried to do something, not because you were afraid to do something.
00:53:47
Speaker
So to me is all those guys, McDavid, why he's so good is because he fails 99.9% of the time because he's trying to do something, and then he learns from it. And that's how he's getting better is he's trying something and it didn't work.
00:54:02
Speaker
So he makes an adjustment and then goes back out and does it again. And that can be same set at minor hockey is, is make a mistake and then learn from it. Don't make a mistake because you were scared to try something.
00:54:15
Speaker
Exactly. Well, Ethan, it's been a pleasure, my friend. Glad to happy to have you on the pod
Contact and Closing Remarks
00:54:22
Speaker
for today. I guess just another kind of last minute question here as we wrap up, where can people find you?
00:54:29
Speaker
ah Usually on my couch watching TV. um ah Watching the the latest Oilers game. ah That's a good question. I don't even know what my socials are, but I'm on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram.
00:54:45
Speaker
What else is there out there these days? I don't even know. I'm sure I'm missing something that these young kids have. Fair enough. Certainly. It's my name. Yep.
00:54:56
Speaker
There you go. Obviously you are on staff with us here at True North Goaltending. So if you have any questions for Ethan, you can reach out to us add goalie at at truenorthgoaltending.com. um Ethan, it has been a pleasure, my friend. Thank you for coming on today.
00:55:10
Speaker
Thank you very much for having me. All right, goalies. Well, that'll do for another episode of the DIY goalie podcast brought to you by true North goaltending. Make sure you guys follow us on our social media platforms at true North goaltending. At some point here, we are migrating everything from the DIY goalie.
00:55:26
Speaker
brand over to true north goaltending as part of our merger so make sure you guys just go check us out at true north goaltending because all of that stuff will be posted there you can follow myself over on instagram at monday gc again you can follow us on your social with social media platforms twitter facebook x um same thing twitter x uh tiktok there as well except on instagram because we do like to be different you can follow us there at yeg g goalie coach If you are watching on the YouTube side of things, make sure you hit that subscribe button and that like button as we are looking to bring more goalies together because the more goalies that we have in the community, the better. And that's just because goalies are cooler all around. If you have any questions or anything, you can reach out to us at goalies at truenorthgoaltending.com.
00:56:06
Speaker
Thanks so much for watching. Thanks so much for listening on your favorite Spotify platforms, podcasting platforms, spa Spotify, Apple, iHeart, wherever it is that you listen to us. Thanks for watching, guys. We'll see you guys next time. Make some saves. Take care.