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060 - Hot Takes From the Goalie Community
99 Plays26 days ago
Show notes are available at https://thediygoalie.com/pod060
This week we go over some hot takes that the goalie community provided us when we asked, and we go through and provide our thoughts on them. Thank you to everyone who contributed their hot takes, and please let us know if you agree or disagree with them!
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Transcript
Introduction to DIY Goalie Podcast
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to the DIY Goalie Podcast, where hosts and goalie coaches Nathan Park and Connor Munday share their insights on how to become a better goalie.
Website Updates & New Features
00:00:20
Speaker
Goalies, welcome back to another episode of the DIY Goalie podcast presented by True North Goaltending. And we are getting close to making the switch over. i just mostly have to do some content, copy and pasting and setting up a few things like our booking and new courses platforms on our website. So that'll be coming soon. Stay tuned for that.
Community Hot Takes
00:00:49
Speaker
and Today we've got a pretty exciting episode. Connor had the idea and took it upon himself to reach out to the goalie community asking for your guys' is hot takes on some goaltending things. So he posted in a few Facebook groups, asked his circle of goalies and goalie coaches,
00:01:09
Speaker
And we got, uh, got a few back. We got lots of responses back actually. So thanks to you guys for that. Um, we don't have time to include them all, so we could maybe do a part two down the road, but, uh, we kind of picked the ones that we haven't really touched on a whole heck of a lot before, uh, in other episodes and kind of, you know, the ones that were offering good talking points and might be a little bit on the spicier side. So that's, uh,
00:01:38
Speaker
That's how we did that. So if yours didn't make the cut for today, we apologize, but maybe we'll do a part two down the road. So thanks to you guys. And thanks to Connor for taking that on himself, having the idea and kind of putting this together for us today.
00:01:54
Speaker
Yeah, it was ah it was it was this was a lot of fun to do. And just thank you to everybody for for for their submissions, you know just reaching out to everybody on you know social media and just kind of putting the general call out there and you guys answered. And so like like Nathan said, we got ah we got a lot of responses for this, um and but we can only we can only choose so many because we have an hour time slot to work with.
00:02:21
Speaker
yeah So, um yeah, but yeah, I mean, it's we we we had a lot of good ones. We had a lot of interesting ones. And so if ah if yours didn't make the cut, don't ah don't feel discouraged. It was just more so a thing of.
00:02:37
Speaker
it didn't It didn't kind of fit the the the vibe that we were going for today, or we just weren't able to we just weren't able to include it. So it's it's ah it's is this just, yeah, this this was a lot of fun to do. Thank you everybody, for for answering the bell, and I can't wait to get into it today.
00:02:55
Speaker
All right. Well, on that note, let's segue right into it today. Yeah! All right. what we're going to do is we're going to kind of go back and forth reading them. And then one of us is going to read it. The other one is going to put our thoughts in and we're going to kind of have some healthy discussion and or debate about about what comes up here. So the first one that I've got on the list is.
Should Goalies Pay Full Registration Fees?
00:03:26
Speaker
Goalies shouldn't have to pay full registration unless there's a goalie coach provided. So um I remember reading that run and i kind of got me thinking a little bit and I was thinking like, I kind of, I kind of agree with that take, um especially in the day and age now where like goal late, like there are an abundance of goalie coaches across North America and, and Europe.
00:04:00
Speaker
Yeah. And especially with like, I think Nathan, you and I were talking about it. I was, artist think I think it was actually talking about it with Jamie Phillips a while ago and they were kind of talking about in their, their latest episode of goalie science where um just kind of the, the, the whole open borders thing. That's, that's happening out in Ontario as much as, as much as of a, of a, of a cluster truck that is, um,
00:04:29
Speaker
It kind of got me thinking to a point where, you know, organizations both in the Hockey Canada sanctioned system and the non-Hockey Canada sanctioned system are are are like they're they're competing for players, right? They're They're trying to get players and families too to buy into to their organization.
00:04:50
Speaker
And so when it comes to this take, I think that's got to be part of that now. it's a Obviously, it's not going to make sense for you know like the the the smaller, more rural communities where there's maybe not a lot of options or maybe they aren't able to get a goalie coach.
00:05:08
Speaker
But I think for like a lot of them the major organizations within the major cities, you kind of have to like that has to be provided somewhere in the system. Yes, there is, you know, the weekly goalie development program.
00:05:26
Speaker
But I think just in the same breath, it's just like if if if you're not going to be offering, if an organization is not going to be offering somewhat to a degree of more dedicated goalie development then yeah i think like and then yeah i would agree that yeah goalie parents or families of goalies would have to um would maybe have to shell out a little bit less because the position of goaltending in itself with all the equipment and the training already is gets does happen to get quite expensive
00:05:57
Speaker
So that is so that's that's kind of my initial thoughts on it. Nathan, what would what would be your response or rebuttal?
Goalie Development vs. Fee Reduction
00:06:05
Speaker
Yeah, to a certain extent, I definitely see the merit to this. um My thoughts initially would be, instead of looking at reducing fees for goalies, I think the first like point of action should be providing better development for your goalies. Like to me, the dropping the fees for goalies is a bit of a cop out.
00:06:32
Speaker
i I get it. Like it is definitely an option and it does help. But and coming from a goalie coach's perspective, like for us as, you know, an organization that maybe sees goalies within organizations, either in a big group setting with,
00:06:51
Speaker
half for all of the goalies within an organization or we see a goalie you know once ah every couple weeks at their team practice or we see them when they come out to us privately the problem with that is a lot of times we don't have a good setup to be able to work on like situational stuff which is a lot of kind of what we want to be teaching our goalies to be able to give them, you know, a bit of a better, you know, decision-making skill set for when they're in a game, because the controlled environment of, you know, goalie sessions doesn't offer necessarily some of the variability that a game situation does. And it's just unrealistic for us to be able to bring out 10 guys in a game situation and coach a goalie.
00:07:45
Speaker
So to me, I think, The better push is to have somebody on staff that has ah good working knowledge of being a goalie or the goaltending position that can offer that real time feedback in practices that are more game like like team practices or even during the game or after games, being able to go through some of that stuff with them as well.
00:08:11
Speaker
So I do think that would be the better push as opposed to just dropping fees. That being said, that's not always doable.
00:08:22
Speaker
So I think if that's the case, then some other alternate of goalie development should be offered. And maybe that is you the low hanging fruit of dropping fees for goalies.
00:08:33
Speaker
Like to me, again, I think that's kind of the easy cop out and should, in my opinion, be kind of the last resort decision. i think first and foremost, the organization should should see what they can do for goalies to make their development in-house better, whether that's bringing an organization in or trying to have, you know, some sort of dedicated goalie coach per team or whatever that is.
00:09:01
Speaker
But that's my kind of take on that. i guess I guess with this particular take, it would like we would require more of a, ah of a um for lack of a better term, like an explanation or more of a ah more more of like an in-depth option.
00:09:18
Speaker
um i Again, like you you and you and I have talked about it, and I'm pretty sure I mentioned it in a previous podcast as well. It's like, in my little perfect world, there's a goalie coach on every single minor hockey organization.
00:09:31
Speaker
And so I think that's... got to be again like you said like that's ah that would have to be part of it somewhere it's like there's got to be a dedicated coach on staff that has to go and take the the the goalie development one program whatever that may be depending on the organization and would that would be they would be that guy and if no team is willing to do that they then yeah, maybe then that's, maybe that's where you say it's like, we're not going to put no, nobody on our, nobody on our team or organizations going to is willing to do that. So we want half or part of that money back, obviously not entirely the case because all registration fees are paid up front before trials, but that's the, I, I, I get, I get where this take is coming from.
00:10:25
Speaker
I just, I don't think there's really any excuse now to not have for any organization or for any team to not have some type of goalie development. I like the way that we do it with one of our organizations that we have where it's like they have what it's like 10 dedicated skates throughout the year for, for goalie development with each of their individual teams. Yeah.
00:10:50
Speaker
So a maybe maybe maybe an approach like that. Because like what they have to reach like a certain amount of development hours or something or whatever it is. Yeah, i think the minimum for the HCL is 10.
00:11:03
Speaker
ten um I don't know how well that's policed and followed up on, but supposedly that's their minimum. but that's what but that's But that's what I'm saying, right? it's like i like i don't I don't mind that...
00:11:19
Speaker
That model basically. Right. And so like it that would be something easily adapted to an extent for regular minor hockey organizations.
00:11:31
Speaker
Anyways, that's so that's that's kind of take number one there. um we'll we'll just we' we'll just We'll just transition to into take number two here, um where this one says, if there are two goalies on a team, you need to give them 24 hours notice before they start in the locker room prior to warm-up. Sorry, you need to give them 24 hours notice before they start in the locker room prior to warm-up is not acceptable.
Advance Game Start Notifications
00:12:01
Speaker
Yeah, I'm, uh, I'm 100% on board with that. um i I don't know. You can argue like the argument with that from a coach's perspective that I've heard is that then you come to the rink prepared regardless of if you're starting or you're backing up.
00:12:21
Speaker
But to me, what I find that does is it just kind of jacks up the anxiety because now not only are you trying to prepare, but you're also like, am I starting? Am I not starting? i don't know what's going on.
00:12:34
Speaker
um I've only ever had one coach or one team that I've been on do this and I hated it. And I think that kind of goes for any goalie who goes into this situation.
00:12:48
Speaker
it jacks up the anxiety because you're just like... I want to prepare, but there's so much uncertainty like us goalies. We like stability. We like certainty. We, we have routines. We like to go through our routines and get through the proper preparation.
00:13:05
Speaker
um, A lot of us have different routines based off of if we're starting or if we're backing up. Like for me, I was a lot more loosey goosey when I was backing up as opposed to when I was starting.
00:13:19
Speaker
And it just kind of helped me get in the right mindset. Like I found if I came off the bench in a game, when I was just kind of not really thinking about it, when I was just having fun, um you know, just kind of there, it helped me transition into the game a little bit better as opposed to, you know, trying to be thinking about it and, you know, jacking yourself up and trying to get yourself motivated for a game you're not playing kind of thing.
00:13:51
Speaker
um I just like when I didn't play, I would go play sewer ball with the boys and just kind of, hang out, do a little bit of stretching, but that was about it. But I wouldn't do that stuff when I was starting because when I was starting, I had my specific routine I wanted to get through and that didn't include playing sewer ball. So um I do definitely agree with this that I think there should be notice for ah goalies and that includes the goalie who's not starting. They should know that they're not starting as well.
00:14:22
Speaker
Um, and yeah, I think, uh, I'm on board with that one. 100%. Yeah. Uh, yeah I'm, but I'm also ah hundred percent in, uh, in, in agreeance with this one.
00:14:34
Speaker
Um, there was when I was coaching junior B a year ago, and I, I vividly remember this game where we weren't sure who was going to start,
00:14:46
Speaker
um It was supposed to be goalie A's scheduled start, um but he wasn't feeling all that great. He was kind of a little not himself.
00:14:59
Speaker
And so we were like, okay, well, let's let's get you well'll we'll we'll get you through warm-ups, and then we'll we'll we'll make a decision from from from there. Initially, we had said, say more than likely, it will be you, but we'll just we'll kind of see how you're sitting through warm-ups.
00:15:13
Speaker
how you're sitting through through warmup Goes through warm-ups. He didn't look all that great. And so it's like I told him, I can't in good conscience start you. He was like, no, like ah want to like I want to do this. and i want to so I want to start.
00:15:29
Speaker
And so we ended up playing him and we had to pull him after the third or fourth goal. And I think part, i I'll admit part of that was probably my fault because we, we, we messed with his head too much. He, he, he was told that he wasn't starting. And so, well, now he wasn't sure if he was starting. And so just, there was, there was too much, um there was just too much um kind of mental blockage there.
00:15:53
Speaker
Um, So that's that is an example of what can and probably does happen an amongst many organizations. I think realistically, though, in the same breath, too, it's like you watch like any of the NHL teams. like they probably It's probably be mandatory for them that they give their goaltender, even like when they do it in the media as well.
00:16:18
Speaker
um you know, that they'll they'll announce like, oh, Stuart Skinner is going to be starting Calvin Pickard or or or whoever, right? Like they give they do give that notice. it's not ah It's not a game time decision by any stretch, right? So, um yeah, 100% agree with this take.
00:16:36
Speaker
And I think any coaches that do otherwise, ah that's that they they should not be coaching. Yeah, well, and then with the NHL teams too, they have the quote-unquote starters netted practice that you'll see the guys, you know, playing in. and And, you know, even if we don't know as fans and the media and all that stuff, um internally they know, like 100%. Yeah, it's really what we're like We're all in the middle of everything. The NHL is in the middle of playoffs right now.
00:17:11
Speaker
It's not like um I'll use Freddie Anderson and Peter and Peter Kochekov as an example. It's not like Rod Brindamore is going into game four against the Florida Panthers backs of good backs against the wall and be like, I'm going to tell Peter Kochekov or Freddie Anderson 30 minutes to puck drop that one's going to be starting over the other. Right. Like that's that's that's not realistic. That's.
00:17:34
Speaker
that's That's just not okay. I understand the argument, though, to an extent. like, oh, both goalies have to be ready. gold Both goalies should be ready to play regardless. Yeah. Right?
00:17:45
Speaker
But obviously, and one goalie is going to... Like you were to saying earlier, it's like when when you knew that you were playing or you knew that you were starting, you probably you you took a little more seriously than you did...
00:17:56
Speaker
if you didn't right so just i think like everybody has their own kind of different warm-up or just kind of different routines prior to starting or not starting but that doesn't give the excuse regardless to say i like oh i'm not going to tell them five minutes before puck drop because i want both my goalies to be ready both your goalies should be ready to play regardless Yeah, well, and that's the thing. If I did my starting routine when I was backing up, I wouldn't do well if I had to come off the bench. If I did my backing up routine when I was starting, I would not do well when I started.
00:18:29
Speaker
So, you know, and it's one of those things that the more anxiety you introduce to a goalie's environment, the worse it's going to be for them. And that's all that indecision is, is extra anxiety.
00:18:41
Speaker
Yeah. um right. So this next one.
Full vs. Half Games for Young Goalies
00:18:46
Speaker
This is interesting. um If you have two goalies playing half games is unacceptable.
00:18:56
Speaker
Each goalie should get a full game. Thoughts, Connor? so I remember this one and and I'm laughing because it's kind of absurd, but I also kind of get it at the same time.
00:19:08
Speaker
So, like hey, when I played... Again, I'm going to be using older terms here. When I played novice Adam hockey, we played half games because we were like what?
00:19:22
Speaker
Like 9, 10, 11 or 12 years something that.
00:19:26
Speaker
Getting into Pee Wee was still half games because, again, like this is House League that we're talking about. And then kind of getting into second-year Pee Wee, moving into Bantam Midget, then it transitioned to full games.
00:19:38
Speaker
So I don't necessarily disagree with this tape, but I don't think I necessarily agree with it either. I think it depends on the age level and the level of play Because realistically, I'm not going to be asking a full time starting to play goal goalie to be playing a full 20 minute or 15 minute period.
00:20:07
Speaker
Depending right like obviously in the me obviously in the um in the like the double a triple a stream absolutely makes sense. You know, they should be playing consistently or should be playing, you know the full game, but in a in a house league ish setting.
00:20:27
Speaker
I would agree or I would disagree rather that it's like, no, half games I would say is acceptable but because it's about playing the game. It's about, you know, having fun, especially in that kind of stream.
00:20:41
Speaker
um I don't think necessarily playing full games again, age level dependent or skill level dependent ah is a is is ah is quote unquote unacceptable.
00:20:53
Speaker
Yeah, this one's a big, it depends. um My thought on it or my take on it is the more business-like or the more quote-unquote professional the environment is, the more likely you probably are to be playing full games. So, you know, AA, AAA, Junior, Semi-Pro, whatever, you're not...
00:21:18
Speaker
changing halfway through a period or doing one period, two period or every five minutes, whatever. um But if the focus is more on development and especially for the younger kids,
00:21:33
Speaker
they really should be swapping out at some point, um whether it is halfway through. i like the natural break of an intermission. So I like doing either one goalie plays the first period, the other plays the second and third.
00:21:49
Speaker
Or if you do like rotating every period. So one goalie plays the first, the next plays the second, then the first plays the third again. Um, stuff like that, like for the younger goalies makes a lot of sense because it's hard for them to focus for the entirety of a full game.
00:22:06
Speaker
It also is tough on families to be driving wherever for a game and their kids sitting on the bench for the whole time. And at some point, these goalies do need to learn how to come off of the bench and to come into a game in the middle of a game.
00:22:25
Speaker
um because when they do get older goalies get pulled even if you're doing full games goalies get pulled it happens so being able to have that skill set comes from you know being able to figure that out at a bit of a younger age too and have you know the routines that work for you for those situations um i also think too that As much as you can, if you can get the younger goalies to be playing full games, but then the goalie who isn't playing is playing out, that's a huge advantage, in my opinion, because that builds skill sets away from the crease, you know, that works on skating, stick handling, like edge work, you know, positioning, learning where they should be so that when you're back in the net, you kind of have an understanding of where your players should be and, and you know, the game in front of you.
00:23:21
Speaker
I think if that's possible to do, that's probably the ideal situation where you have one goalie playing the full game and the other goalie playing out. um But yeah, all in all, I i disagree with this being a full on blanket statement of every goalie should play a full game because certain situations, I think, call for swapping out at some point during a game, especially for kind of the younger goalies.
00:23:51
Speaker
Equal play, I think, is kind of the the rebuttal to that in ah in ah in a general blanket statement. um I will say this, though. For leagues like you know here in ah here in Alberta, like the Hockey Super League and the Premier Hockey League, again, i would also say that is dependent up to up to a certain point.
00:24:14
Speaker
um You know, like the the the younger kids, and we'll say...
00:24:21
Speaker
12 and under basically would definitely say half games 12 13 older probably actually 13 older um definitely full games for sure right again like as much as you know like the the outlaw league portion of it you know the prides on development and you know claiming that they're the equivalent of Double or Triple A teams, it is it's still minor hockey at the end of the day, too.
00:24:52
Speaker
Right? So there there has to be that there has to be that balance at the same time. Yeah. And with that, I think, too, like the other thing is, is with the Super Leagues, the Outlaw Leagues, whatever you want to call them, they're full ice the whole time. So you've got literally seven year olds playing full ice hockey. So to me, that's another time where it's really important to split the goalies, because when seven year olds are playing full ice, they can't skate very fast. So yeah the puck is
00:25:25
Speaker
is usually not around the goalie as much as when you know you're older and stuff like that so a lot of times you know trying to stay focused for a full whatever it is 45 60 minutes depending on the the run time of the game Um, that's tough when, you know, it takes two, three minutes for a puck to actually make its way down to you for a shot that you might not even get.
00:25:51
Speaker
It might get blocked and go back the other way. And it's, you know, 10 minutes between shots for you. That's tough for a seven year old to stay focused. So I think it's, it's good to have that kind of natural switch or, or, you know, kind of break, I guess, from having to try and stay focused, but that's just me.
Communication on Being Pulled from Games
00:26:12
Speaker
Moving on to the next one here. And I don't know how I feel about this one. Actually, I appreciate i know how i feel about this one. ah Don't pull the goalie and not talk to them on the bench about why or what the reason was.
00:26:26
Speaker
Yeah, as with a lot of these takes, we're probably going to be underwhelming and say it depends on the situation. ah um In my opinion, you should talk to them about why there was a pull at some point, but at the higher levels and stuff like that, that might not come right when it happens on the bench.
00:26:50
Speaker
um that might be after the game that you talk to the goalie about it briefly. um i know for a fact that I hated getting pulled. I knew that I wasn't playing well.
00:27:02
Speaker
And if I was playing well, then I would just be mad as to why I got pulled because maybe a story for another time, but I did get pulled in a game that was two, two after I let in the second goal on the 18th shot.
00:27:15
Speaker
So story for another time, still bitter about that. But anyways, so I do think that with the older goalies who are a little bit more in tune with their game and usually tend to be a little bit more emotional with it.
00:27:34
Speaker
um It might make sense to wait until after the game to talk with them. They have a little bit of time to reflect, a little bit of time to cool down. When it comes to the younger goalies, though, i do think it should be...
00:27:48
Speaker
um a conversation that happens right then and there. um Just because it, you know, it's tough as a younger kid when you don't necessarily understand and you're just sitting there thinking, hey, coach hates me or whatever the case is like it.
00:28:06
Speaker
In the case of me getting pulled in that 2-2 game, eventually my coach came to me and said, if you were on the bench, you would have understand why I made this change. And he's like, we needed to shake things up.
00:28:19
Speaker
And I still don't necessarily agree with that. But anyways... That's what he said to me. So if that's the case, you can pass it to your goalie and be like, Hey, it's not you. We need to shake things up or, Hey, we saw you're getting frustrated. We wanted you to have a bit of a cool down or, Hey, you know what?
00:28:38
Speaker
We still have the utmost confidence in you. We just saw today wasn't your day and you get the next start right back at or or whatever the case is. Right. I do think that,
00:28:50
Speaker
With the younger kids in those situations, it's good to have that real-time immediate feedback with them. um The older goalies, I would say, you probably are better off waiting a little bit until after the game. But again, that kind of depends on each individual. And that's why it's good to have these conversations before these things happen.
00:29:12
Speaker
So you know kind of what your goalies like and kind of where their headspace is at.
00:29:20
Speaker
Yeah. Um, I kind of lost you there for a second, but that's, that's right. i kind of got the gist of it. Um, yeah. Um,
00:29:31
Speaker
Yeah, i don't i don't I don't have anything to add on to that. Honestly, I think you kind of summed it up pretty well. um i' Just, yeah, definitely like for the younger kids, it's kind of like almost an immediate reaction to that.
00:29:47
Speaker
um But for the older for the older goalies, it's ah it's a conversation either in between periods or or after the, after the game, it's, it's, it's all dependent and situational.
00:29:58
Speaker
um Cause again, like things, things happen in the heat of the moment, right. Or the, the, ah the, the strat, the strategizing of battle basically. Right. And so sometimes you won't be able to answer decisions or answer or,
00:30:16
Speaker
answer questions or anything like that right away because you're strategizing or you're doing things you're you're like 10 steps ahead on on on certain things but uh yeah i don't i i don't i don't have a i don't have a rebuttal to that i don't have anything for that i think that's just again like like like nathan said it's underwhelming but it's it is a kind of a situational thing Now here's an interesting kind of spinoff on this.
00:30:41
Speaker
What are your thoughts on the pull, the chat, and then the put them back in at the next like whistle or whatever?
00:30:54
Speaker
Okay, I'm going to need a little bit more fine-tuning on this, I guess. absolutely what do you mean? like So say a goalie, like I don't know, um say you've got a 10 or a 12-year-old or something like that. They let in like three goals in the first six minutes.
00:31:13
Speaker
You pull them, you bring them to the bench, other goalie goes in, you have a chat with them saying, hey, um not the start we're looking for. We still, you know,
00:31:24
Speaker
have confidence in you we want you to reset blah blah blah and then at the next whistle they switch again they put that goalie back in what are your thoughts on that so i would i i would agree with that because it's actually happened to me ah funny and fair um yeah so i uh um i like quick so quick story time uh know we were playing a game and yeah kind of same deal kind of gave up three goals in the first six si shots um my dad ironically enough who was the head coach of the team pulled me just kind of gave me a minute to kind of gave me a couple whistles to um to to to reset we talked and uh ended up coming back in i think i actually started the second period but uh um
00:32:11
Speaker
yeah i'm i'm i'm all i'm on board for that i would say um again on on a couple of factors because number one because mean like again like if like 12-ish years old um you know and ah and if that was supposed to be the the game that that i'm supposed to be starting like obviously you got off to a bad start and you want it and as goalies we you know when you get off to a start like that you want to You want to do everything in your power to to to correct it, basically, right? It doesn't matter what age level that you're at.
00:32:43
Speaker
um And I don't think it's anything more frustrating than, you know, you get pulled on three goals or, yeah, three goals on six shots and then your your backup's playing the the rest of the game.
00:32:54
Speaker
Yeah. So, yeah, i would I would personally agree with that. Again, that's that that's a huge gamble that that you're taking, obviously, because it could go south for you very, very, very, very quickly, and then people start kind of questioning the head coach.
00:33:10
Speaker
But, again, that's that's legitimately happened to me. Yeah. um i I won't say that we won that game, but I mean, I definitely did not give up another three goals on six shots. So, you know, yay for me.
00:33:24
Speaker
But I know again, again, people are probably hating us for this at this point, but I would say that's situational independent. Yeah, I think more often than not, it's it's a decent play if it's early and you can tell it's just not not their night. and And it's a good reset because us as goalies, we always like the opportunity to wrong or right our wrongs. And, you know, sometimes that mental reset and kind of cool down can help a little bit.
00:33:54
Speaker
But yeah, I just wanted to know your thoughts. No, that's fair. But before you get into this next one, um i do like i do want to preface that these were these are or were two separate takes i just put them together as one because i thought they kind of correlated with each other Okay, fair enough.
Butterfly Technique vs. Two-Pad Stack
00:34:14
Speaker
So this one, the butterfly should not be a reaction to every shot. It is a save selection and should be taught as such. And part two, the two pad stack is a useful technique in some situations and should still be taught to goalies oh way
00:34:35
Speaker
taught to goalies. two pack stad that the two pack stack one when I first saw it made me laugh really hard. When I first initially saw it, um I think to non goalie parents or to parents who think they know something about goaltending, I think the butterfly does get a bad rap sometimes.
00:35:01
Speaker
And probably, yes, goalies probably utilize it more than they should. But I don't know if I necessarily agree with it being not a reaction but nor a safe selection. I think it's just a, for me, it's ah it's it's a movement to an extent that goalies utilize. And sometimes they utilize it well.
00:35:32
Speaker
Sometimes they don't utilize it. properly. um the The first, and i and like i kind I'm visualizing kind of where this take is coming from, ah the first part of it anyways, because there have probably been times where a shot comes, the goalie drops down, and it kind of whizzes by the top of their head.
00:36:00
Speaker
My rebuttal to that would be, again, is that if you have that same similar shot and it's deflected through five guys in traffic and it ends up dropping down in elevation, then...
00:36:14
Speaker
then
00:36:17
Speaker
the then it goes to the goalie's legs and then that to me looks even worse, honestly. So i would say the butterfly is not safe selection. I would say it's a movement um to an extent.
00:36:32
Speaker
um The two pad stack is gone. you guys you you guys You guys need to get over it. It's gone. It's not coming back. It is not useful in any situations whatsoever other than some type of some some some type of desperation. And I know that there are some goalie coaches out there that that that do teach like desperation-ish style saves, but I don't think the two-pad stack is in that conversation for me anymore.
00:37:02
Speaker
ah Okay, well, I'll go to part one first. um The butterfly. so goaltending, whether you like it or not, plays percentages.
00:37:16
Speaker
it Basically, our modern style of goaltending is... putting the goalie in the best possible position to make the saves more often than not.
00:37:28
Speaker
And that's why the butterfly has become kind of the de facto style or way of doing things is because even with how good the shots are and the players are today,
00:37:42
Speaker
The majority of you know chances or shots on net are going to be in the lower half of the net. Like Connor said, there's deflections, guys fan on shots.
00:37:54
Speaker
Maybe they don't see a lane and just kind of throw a puck on net, whatever the case is. um I agree with the statement if you're talking about...
00:38:06
Speaker
young, new to the position goalies that yes, you may want them to hold their feet a little bit more, mostly because they can't cover the net as well um or as much.
00:38:18
Speaker
But the problem is, is the further you go and the better the players get, the less time you have to react to a shot.
00:38:29
Speaker
So when we start working with goalies that are like brand new, we teach them track the puck and what you track is going to determine what you need to do. Like if it's a low shot, you're tracking a low shot, one hundred percent drop.
00:38:43
Speaker
If it's higher, I usually tell my goalies, It's up to you. But the thing is, is even a nine, 10, eight, 11 year old, whatever age you want to put out there for that age range, um they can still reach the top corner in their butterfly if their hand is out in front and they're doing like they're executing their save execution properly.
00:39:12
Speaker
ah So yes, I get it. It looks bad, but the problem mostly is, is with the younger goalies, when they drop, everything drops, their hands drop, their shoulders drop, their butt drops. And now they're small in the net.
00:39:26
Speaker
They can execute technique properly to make those high saves in the butterfly, but Normally, they don't really have the skill set to do that. So we kind of do tend to go with a hybrid approach with the younger goalies to say, track the puck and where your eyes are telling you that puck's going to go will determine if you drop or not.
00:39:49
Speaker
Now, older goalies with guys who can zip the puck. don't have that time. They don't have that luxury to be able to say, oh is this going high or is this going low? Because what's going to happen is they're going to get caught in the middle, they're going to be late and they're going to get beat.
00:40:07
Speaker
And then what happens is these same people that are like, why do you goalies go down so much are going to be like, oh my God, did you see that ice burner? He let in it like five hole. Like that was atrocious. And it's like, well, what do you want?
00:40:22
Speaker
Do you want the goalie to stand up or do you want the goalie to go down? Like, yeah, so to me the butterfly itself isn't the issue the issue is everything else like where are the hands where are the shoulders does the butt drop back does the goalie make themselves small and compact right like it's you can still accomplish everything in the butterfly and there's a reason why there's no stand-up goalies anymore there's a reason why the goalies at the nhl
00:40:52
Speaker
almost always default to a butterfly. They don't have time to decide if they can stand up or not. They just don't. And they're giving themselves the best opportunity to make the save.
00:41:03
Speaker
And that's by covering the biggest amount of net that they can, which is what the butterfly offers. Because if you look from the puck's perspective, a standing goalie, half of their body's above the crossbar.
00:41:15
Speaker
ah so I don't know. That's kind of my rant about it. Like the standup style is gone. Younger kids. Yes. You can teach them to hold their feet a little bit longer, but the bigger issue to me is where their hands are, their shoulders, their butt, all that stuff.
00:41:33
Speaker
Um, the two pad stack one, I'm more of a, I don't know, like you can't really teach desperation, but you can in a sense by putting goalies into desperation situations and have them battle.
00:41:54
Speaker
And I'm not going to necessarily rag on the two pad stack because at the end of the day, sometimes improvisation needs to happen and goalies need to get creative. And if they throw out a two pad stack and they make a save in a certain situation, I guess. Great. They made the save mission accomplished.
00:42:14
Speaker
It's just the two pad stack has a lot of movement and takes a lot of time. So it's probably not the optimal save selection for most situations.
00:42:26
Speaker
That being said, in my career, I have made the odd two pad stack save and You feel pretty good when it, when it is successful, but um unfortunately I don't think it's a safe selection that offers lot of success most of the time, but Hey, you guys do you, as long as you're stopping the puck, I'm not going to harp on you too much.
00:42:53
Speaker
fair Fair enough there. Um, Yeah, that was that that was ah that was a good hot take. Thank you for the thank you to the to that person for for submitting that. Or to the to the people, rather, for for for submitting those.
00:43:08
Speaker
um This one here comes from actually one of our goalie parents whose kid attended our camp this past summer.
Challenges for Goalie Parents
00:43:17
Speaker
um This one is, the game is different for us goalie parents.
00:43:21
Speaker
The scoreboard is either a buddy or a bully to us, especially at our kids' younger ages. While they are learning to manage the position, we tend to be more aware of the mental load of the posts.
00:43:32
Speaker
ah For a lot of us, the mental load and its consequences, good or challenging, matters more than the wins or losses. Yeah, um I feel for, well, honestly, the goalie community as a whole, especially younger, newer goalies and goalie parents.
00:43:51
Speaker
um I think the problem is, is we tend to, for whatever reason, hold younger goalies to the same standard that we do pro goalies.
00:44:06
Speaker
Like, I don't know why, but everybody seems to expect that from the NHL down, you need to have like a nine 15 save percentage. And honestly, I hate to break it to you, but your seven year old is probably going to be rocking a ah point seven five save percentage and they're doing good.
00:44:25
Speaker
Like it's a different ball game that at that age, especially if they're in the full size nets and they're seven or eight, they're going to have a tough time.
00:44:36
Speaker
You also run into the situation where you have certain kids that are way better than all the other kids on the ice, and they just literally skate around everybody like they're pylons.
00:44:48
Speaker
And that's also usually the kid that has figured out how to raise the puck. and the goalie has yet to see like a raised shot most of the time and so you look at these games and you're like 10-2 that goalie was terrible and you're just like well he covers 10% of the net what do you want from them right like so I think that what we have to understand and what a lot of people don't understand is how much of a process goal tending is like people think and this is goalie parents this is coaches this is even goalies like
00:45:31
Speaker
People think that you can come to say see Connor or myself for a session at our facility and be fixed. or Quote unquote fixed.
00:45:42
Speaker
will You work an hour with a goalie coach and all of a sudden all your problems go away and it it doesn't work like that. like Habits take time to create and bad habits take time to get rid of.
00:45:56
Speaker
And the thing is, is we we have a unique situation with goaltending where there's such a spotlight on the position, but there's so few people that know how to support that position.
00:46:10
Speaker
So you get into a situation where these goalies are. are expected to steal games and yet not given the development or the opportunities to build the skill set to do so.
00:46:23
Speaker
And then they get the brunt of, well, you let in that five hole goal from the top of the circle. What are you doing? Well, what they also didn't see was the defenseman standing right in front of the goalie that, you know, made it. So the goalie didn't see the shot or whatever the case is. So I think,
00:46:44
Speaker
it it's tough. Like, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. It's tough for you guys out there as goalie parents, as new goalies. Find a way, like early on, work with a sports psychologist. Find a way to, you know, be healthy mentally, like to have the proper coping skills for anxiety, for pressure, for loneliness, for all this stuff, right? Because that's what comes with the position.
00:47:12
Speaker
it's slowly changing it's slowly getting better um and hopefully kind of like i'm seeing recently ah big kind of surge of support for goaltending that's changing and hopefully we can ride that wave and keep going with that but for right now do what you can with your situation to find the support you need to both as a goalie parent and a young goalie and or an older goalie anyways, but the, the support that you need to get yourself in the proper state of mind mentally and try your best to tune out the noise. Cause the armchair fans and coaches and whatever, they don't know anything about goaltending and it shows, but they're also the loudest to talk about it. So, you know, they're, they're the crowd that says stand up more and it's like, well, that's not the issue, but I digress anyways. Yeah.
00:48:11
Speaker
Yeah, um definitely hard for for for the goalie parents out there. i think just kind of in more of a hockey sense as well. um Just nobody's kid on the team is going to be players like Sidney Crosby or Connor McDavid. Nobody's kid on the team is going to play defense like Cale McCarr or anything. It's just...
00:48:34
Speaker
the game the the game is played at the age level that it's played at. At that point in time, it's more so about development, learning the systems and all this stuff, working on the techniques and then going into, and just going into play the game for just for the sake of playing the game.
00:48:50
Speaker
But definitely as, from from a goaltending side of things, I just, I don't think parents or hockey parents in general have figured out quite yet, um, um
00:49:04
Speaker
just kind of how things, uh, just kind of how things play out or how things, um, how things go. Um, yeah, I don't, i I don't have anything beyond that. I think Nathan's just kind of, just kind of summed it up. I think just, again, this, is this is easier said than done for both as a goalie parent and as a goalie coach,
00:49:25
Speaker
or not as a goalie parent, it both as a goalie parent and as a goalie, you you just, you can't, you can't let that, you can't let it bother you. People are going to say things and it's, it's like, it's like that all over the world. People are going to say things that either you don't agree with. That's kind of why we're doing this podcast.
00:49:43
Speaker
um And people are just, people are going to say, are like, just people are going to say things and it's, you, you just kind of have to just not let it get to you. Obviously it's easier said than done.
00:49:54
Speaker
But it's more so of just a thing. It's just like you you you know who you are as an athlete, as a person, um and you know you know who you are as a goalie. And so just whether little Timmy's dad thinks that little Timmy did nothing wrong and he played defense great and it's all the goalies' fault and this, this, and that. It's like...
00:50:14
Speaker
Whatever, dude. Who cares? It's minor hockey. Nobody's going to realistically remember a 12-0 loss five days from now, basically. It's just...
00:50:29
Speaker
get over yourself and move on, move on to next thing. So just, yeah. Yeah. Control the controllables, the cliche that we've and kind of worn out. Exactly. Right. So, all right.
00:50:45
Speaker
So again, so, so again, this is, this, this is a, this is another two person one, but I just wanted to kind of correlate into one. Yeah, um this one we save for me to read to Connor because it's ah I'm surprised this isn't Connor's
Criticism of Oilers' Goalie Coach
00:51:02
Speaker
take.
00:51:02
Speaker
But anyway, ah Skinner is not as bad as everybody says. It's the Oilers goalie coach that is the root of the problems.
00:51:14
Speaker
consistency I'm assuming this is the second part consistency or perceived consistency in goaltending is nonsense on a game-to-game basis a goalie with a 2.0 GAA could easily have six goals against following a shutout each game is unique and the number of dangerous plays faced are unique as well
00:51:36
Speaker
I love this one. um So so this this one plays on a multiple of factors. That's this kind of why I correlated these two together. Because we're seeing this in real time right now with Stuart Skinner on the Edmonton Oilers.
00:51:51
Speaker
um Well, no, like, seriously, so like like, guy posts, like, an 894 save percentage after getting his butt handed to him 6-3 in the opening game versus Dallas, and then posts a two nothing or no, sorry, 3-0 shadow in game two.
00:52:05
Speaker
Like, there's no consistency there, right? I find it wild, the stat that... Stu either has an under 834 save percentage or a shutout in these playoffs. There's no in between.
00:52:20
Speaker
And that's kind of wild to me. But anyways, continue. but that's like like like i hate that stat, but it's currently true. um so i wanted So I wanted to touch on the first part of this first year because I have a very have had a very good working relationship, much as Nathan has as well with Dustin Schwartz at the Edmonton Oilers.
00:52:39
Speaker
So I will personally defend this guy till the day I die. um But I don't, I don't, Oilers fans are so, so annoying sometimes because like they'll, they'll, they'll hang, they'll, they'll hang their,
00:52:55
Speaker
they're like they'll just They'll hang it always on Skinner, even though it's not always on him or Pickard. um And then, oh, if it's not if it's not the goalie, then they're not blaming the defense. It's the goalie coach's problem for for whatever reason.
00:53:11
Speaker
So that kind of first part to me um kind of begged the question, at what point does the goalie coach take responsibility for the goaltenders play?
00:53:23
Speaker
And the answer, I don't know if it really shocks anybody. I don't, but I just, I think it gets to a point where it's like, it just, it doesn't any anymore. i think it's the same kind of approach where, know,
00:53:35
Speaker
you know If the head coach loses loses the locker room because you know the guys aren't listening to him or or anything along those lines, then obviously, yeah, it's time for a change. There has, I've yet to meet a goalie coach, although there's one that I'm thinking of in particular, Nathan might know who I'm talking about, um that it goes, that goes purposely purposefully out of their way to say, you got to play the game this way. Cause this is what I know that works. And whoever you listen to from otherwise is a, is an idiot.
00:54:09
Speaker
Well, Or I refuse to also believe that there are any goaltending coaches out there that are saying, yeah, give up the goal give up the first shot on the glove side because this is what I'm telling you to do. like it's like I don't know where this notion, particularly with Oilers fans, is coming from that Dustin Schwartz is purposefully going out of his way to ruin Oilers goaltending.
00:54:30
Speaker
Where is this coming from? Tell me, please, Oilers fans. where Where are you guys coming from on this? Because that is absolutely not the case.
00:54:42
Speaker
Again, like we talked about in the the podcast episode when we had Ethan on, um it's it's all about finding the right fit. is like Was Mike Smith and Dustin Schwartz the right fit when Mike Smith was here? Absolutely not, I don't think.
00:54:58
Speaker
Is Dustin Schwartz, Stuart Skinner, Calvin Pickard the right fit? I think it is. I honestly think it is. i mean, we saw that article with Calvin Pickard out, you know, saying that him and Schwartzy were pretty much eye to eye on the same things. And Stuart Skinner's had the chance to work with Dustin now for the last, what, four or five years since he got drafted, something along those lines.
00:55:19
Speaker
So i don't i don't think I don't think it's all on the Oilers goalie coach that it's that it's the root of the problems. I think that there is something there, but I don't think it's ever been realistically a time for a change.
00:55:33
Speaker
Moving on to the second part, and again, we're seeing this again with Ole's goaltending and Stuart Skinner in particular, consistency and perceived consistency. Yeah, every every game is different. Absolutely every game is different, right?
00:55:47
Speaker
we've all We've all been at games where we where we either give up one or two goals. we've all gone to We've all been or played in games at where the goalie's given up or has hasn't given up, excuse me, anything rather has been into a shutout.
00:56:02
Speaker
or as sometimes you just have an absolute stinker of a game. You guys remember, yeah everybody should remember, you know, when we did that the the episode with um ah Mr. Wakabayashi, you know, i'm not I'm not a big stats person. I genuinely hate stats in terms of reflection of goaltending. And so I think...
00:56:22
Speaker
yeah we've talked We've talked about this before in this aspect where people hang hang so much on you know save percentage and and goals against average. um excuse me they don't They don't tell the full story.
00:56:35
Speaker
right Because you can again you can give up three goals on 20 shots. That's an 800 save percentage. But what happened in between? those shots? What happened in between those goals? What happened in the other 17, no, 15 shots that happened that didn't go in? How did they look, right? It's it's about it's it's all about, too, just how is the goalie playing in the game? And again, we're seeing this in Aaron Edmonton. It's like, oh, he's giving up six goals. He sucks. Oh, he posted a shot. He's great.
00:57:07
Speaker
It's like, well, can stop. Hold on a second here. What's what's happening in between either those games or what's happening in between you know, the six shots that, excuse me, Skinner has given up or the, or, or the shutout that he, that, that he's posting. I don't, you gold, the goalies are not consistent by any stretch of the imagination in terms of game to game. I, goalies are consistent, should be consistent in the fact, in terms of their, their, their, their their development and their, their, their safe selection there. So yeah, that's my, that's my rant on that.
00:57:44
Speaker
Yeah. um The one thing I'll comment specifically on the Oilers goaltending for kind of the first part is they currently are paying 3.6 million in cap hit for two goalies.
00:58:02
Speaker
And to be fair, i don't know what people expect to get from 3.6 million dollars worth of goaltending. Like, like, we talk about not making the investment into goalie development for minor hockey. Well, a lot of these teams that have high quality elite level, consistent goaltending are paying significantly more than $3.6 million dollars a year um of their salary cap towards goaltending. So that's one thing.
00:58:34
Speaker
um Second thing is, is shorts has been around for a while. um i I don't know. I mean, it's been long enough that you could definitely argue that there might need to be a different voice or or whatever.
00:58:48
Speaker
um To be fair, he hasn't been given a whole heck of a lot through his tenure when it comes to household names of goaltending, if you really think about it. Um, and it's kind of the same thing we're seeing now with Stu that we saw with Talbot when he was in Edmonton.
00:59:07
Speaker
Um, it is what it is. Uh, you know, I, I don't know how much better Stu and Pickard would be with a different goalie coach, but you never know until you try, I guess.
00:59:18
Speaker
So that's something like, I would just, just to kind of build on or kind of piggyback off that just for a couple of seconds there. And again, um, um, Stuart Skinner is in his third or second full year in the league.
00:59:38
Speaker
He's 27 years old, but he's still a young goalie in terms of like, and by, by NHL standards, he hasn't been in the league that long. He also hasn't had, i would say, the greatest mentorship when it came to kind of his goalie partners.
00:59:57
Speaker
Mikko Koskinen, Mike Smith, definitely not. Calvin Pickard, k give or take. Jack Campbell, a again, ah good definitely not.
01:00:09
Speaker
and I would absolutely say not. Absolutely not. And not then I'm not trying to dog on Mike Smith or anything of the sort here, but... just the way the the way that i The way that I see it is this like the way that I've been seeing Skinner play lately has reminded me a lot of Mike Smith, and I hate the way that Mike Smith plays the game.
01:00:28
Speaker
So the fact that I'm seeing that is bothering me a lot. But regardless, um I would honestly say that cause the goal because the previous Oilers goaltending coach was Fred Shabbat,
01:00:44
Speaker
who didn't really do all that well. He's doing well in Minnesota now. But no when Schwartz came in, i would say that goaltending has improved significantly under his tenure rather than Shabbat because like the last the last few good goaltenders that we've had, or the oldest have had in their organization, work was Cam Talbot.
01:01:07
Speaker
I hate to admit it, but Mike Smith is up there. And then Stuart Skinner. as well So there's so that's that's kind of your top three right there. But Stuart Skinner is the first, I would say, the first ever true Oilers goaltender that has actually been developed through the system.
01:01:25
Speaker
And so we're seeing the byproduct of that right now. right me yeah this is this This is his third or second year in the league. Calm down, Oilers fans. He'll figure it out. he's Every goalie or every player will go through a go through a bit of a bad or slump year.
01:01:40
Speaker
I would not be surprised by next year if he's kind of figured out. Stop having kids, Stu. I think that's kind of the issue here. Yeah, well, that's issue too, you had twins.
01:01:51
Speaker
Yeah. But yeah, so just um to back away from the Oilers and like specifically, so what a lot of people don't realize too, um and I don't have like personal experience on this. This is just kind of from hearing what other people have have been saying and stuff. Yeah.
01:02:13
Speaker
the NHL level goalie coaches, they, they don't do a lot of skill development, right? Like,
01:02:25
Speaker
A lot of what their job is, is kind of going through video and being a sounding board for the goalies to talk through certain situations and say, hey, this could have been done a little bit better in this situation. um How is your read on this? Oh, you read that? Okay, well...
01:02:44
Speaker
Fair enough. But do you see how this played out? Maybe that allows you to read this a little bit better. um They also do a lot of pre-scouting on the other team. That's a big part of their job and kind of trying to, you know, provide information to the coach on what they can expose on the other team's goaltending.
01:03:03
Speaker
And a lot of it's just mostly making their guys feel good with maybe some small, subtle tweaks, because when they get to that level, they have a certain skill set that made them successful.
01:03:16
Speaker
And a lot of times you can't really do a wholesale change because it'll take too long at that level before you you see progress, right? Because we talked about how it's earlier, how it's not overnight that these things happen.
01:03:35
Speaker
So if you're trying to change a goalie's game at the pro level, when it's a what have you done for me lately business, it's not going to work out. Like if you try and go through a whole transitionary season on changing a goalie's game and they're consistently putting up like sub 800 numbers or sub 850 numbers,
01:03:56
Speaker
They're not going to last in the league too long. And you're not going to have a job for too long if you're saying, hey, coach, hey, head coach, trust the process we're doing. you know, if you give me a season or two, goalie is going to be awesome. yeah They don't have that luxury. So a lot of it is just...
01:04:16
Speaker
you know, subtle tweaks, kind of talking with these goalies, um being a sounding board for them, helping them kind of, you know, dissect certain situations.
01:04:27
Speaker
But like Schwartz isn't working with Stu right now and being like, hey, you know what? You're more of a positional goalie. Let's make you more athletic. Let's make you go east to west like Marc-Andre Fleury does. Let's try that and see how it works for you.
01:04:45
Speaker
That's not going happen. So I don't think people realize how... I don't want to say how little the goalie coach at the NHL level affects things because that's not true, but...
01:04:59
Speaker
They're not doing wholesale changes to these goalies. They got there because they have an elite level skill set. And they're going to work with that to make subtle changes to try and get them, you know, a couple saves extra per game, basically, or per season, whatever you want to call it. So.
01:05:21
Speaker
um Going into the consistency aspect, we kind of talked about this a couple episodes ago, but um yeah, consistency is one of those buzzwords that we mostly just want to aim for like a baseline level of foundational skills that you can repeat game in and game out.
01:05:40
Speaker
From there, what happens is going to be game specific. And sometimes you're going to let in seven goals and actually not feel that bad about it because there is a bunch of weird deflections.
01:05:51
Speaker
Sometimes you're going to only let in one goal and not feel the greatest because you were kind of shaky and maybe didn't control some rebounds that you should have and blah, blah, blah. So the big thing for us with consistency is just having that foundational set of fundamental skills that you can repeat on a daily basis.
01:06:12
Speaker
But in terms of like stats and stuff and all that, yeah, I do agree that there can be, i guess, some more buzzwordiness for consistency.
01:06:24
Speaker
um And that's something that a lot of people fall back on. But I do think there is merit in the consistency argument. I think you need a goalie that can at least have a baseline of skills that you can count on pretty much night in and night out. And I think that'll average out their their performance is pretty good, too, if they can do those things consistently.
01:06:47
Speaker
not trying to Not trying to, you know, have this be a whole other Stuart Skinner thing because I know people were tired of me talking about it. i just I just honestly thought that it was a...
01:06:58
Speaker
um kind of a relative talking point there and kind of something current that's happening and something that's something that I've been wanting to get off my chest, but I don't didn't want to post it on my social media. so I'll just put in podcasts. and so and all works out so So great. all All the people there are going to come after me about your.
01:07:19
Speaker
so so i All right. So last one on your list, and then I'm going to throw a couple of personal ones at the end, but. Okay. Stick off the ice standing isn't a bad thing if you can get it on the ice to make a stick safe.
Stick on the Ice or Elevated Stance?
01:07:37
Speaker
Yeah, so this one was submitted by one of our students. And i have to say that I don't agree with it. I really don't. I genuinely don't like the elevated goalie stance.
01:07:52
Speaker
Just because i think it you're not giving yourself an opportunity to get ready to get set on a shot, I think... when you go from an elevated position down into whatever your regular goalie stance is, that there's that split second adjustment that you're making by that time that shot's released.
01:08:15
Speaker
And so now, even if it's for a fraction of a second, you are you are chasing the game or you're chasing the puck at this point. Elevated stance is nice for kind of high or kind of...
01:08:29
Speaker
um D partner to D partner passes or anything, but that's the only thing that I would utilize it for. I'm not telling my guys to stay in a high stance. Most of the time, honestly, um I don't think just, I just, I just, I think, I think it just takes too much time away to get ready to get, to get from an elevated stance into, into a proper goalie stance. so Um,
01:08:56
Speaker
I come from that era where it was always stick on the ice, knees, bend, stay ready, and it stay in your ready stance for any puck that comes your way. So i know i know I know that there's a lot of goalie coaches at or a lot of goalie schools that teach that nowadays.
01:09:14
Speaker
i just Just for me, i just i think it's ah i just I think we're trending backwards in that direction.
01:09:22
Speaker
We're going to get spicy. You're wrong. Nothing new there. i am I'm definitely not on the same page as you, but I'm not totally on the opposite page. so Again, i think it's situational, but I do think there's more merit to it than you're giving it credit for, in my personal opinion.
01:09:47
Speaker
um but Again, it has to be done a proper way. And it has to be done in certain situations. So to me, we're not rocking a raise stance when a guy is locked and loaded in the slot between the hash marks, ready to make us like to shoot on net.
01:10:05
Speaker
We're not rocking a raise stance. If we're on a PK and the puck's getting worked around, 100%. If there's screens or if there's traffic in front, 100%. you know, there's...
01:10:18
Speaker
if you know there's i don't know, play in zone that's not real in tight to the net 100%. That's fine to be in the race stance. That being said, though, there still has to be a knee bend.
01:10:31
Speaker
There still has to be hands in front. The shoulders still have to be slightly forward, even if we're a little bit more raised up than normal. And the other thing, too, that I see a lot of goalies who maybe are more active in the race stance do that I personally don't like is then when you know, a guy does load up for a shot, they tend to get way too wide in their following setup.
01:10:57
Speaker
Like their feet are like way outside a shoulder width and then they get themselves stuck a little bit. So if you are rocking the race stance, understand that you still need to have a knee bend. You still need to have your hands out in front and you still need to rock some semblance of a stance.
01:11:16
Speaker
And then you can't be doing too much from there. Like if a shot comes, you should be able to execute a save properly from your raise stance. And if you can't, then there's something wrong with the technique, in my opinion.
01:11:31
Speaker
um But yeah, i I do think that it's it's situational, like with a lot of things in goaltending, but it does help to conserve a little bit of energy, um which for you know a game that if you're getting peppered and they're they have a lot of ozone possession...
01:11:51
Speaker
I'm personally okay with it, again, if it's executed properly and at the right time. And that right time is not when somebody's in the slot ready to shoot. So I think there's a caveat to it, in my opinion, but I'm for it to an extent.
01:12:08
Speaker
Just has to be done right.
01:12:14
Speaker
i i don't i don't know what to I don't know what to tell you on that. I just i don't i don't see i don't i don't see a use to it for me. I think it just creates sloppy footwork.
01:12:26
Speaker
Again, like you said, if that is something you want to do and you don't execute it properly and you end up getting into too much of a wide stance that you end up making yourself leg locked, it's... it's, it's, it's game over for you. I think, I think you're just, you're, you're, you're doing one too many things there. And, and um it just, I don't, I i don't see, i i don't see the benefit of it. So.
01:12:51
Speaker
Yeah. There you go. That's ah probably what the first major thing that we've yeah actually, of course. Yeah. no All right. So I got two hot takes for you to finish off.
01:13:02
Speaker
Oh boy. ah So my first one, is
01:13:11
Speaker
and i don't know how to word this so it doesn't come across wrong but uh we put too much emphasis on the big highlight reel saves and i'm not discrediting the big highlight reel saves because again, we talked earlier, the skill of improvisation and desperation is a skill and it's something that you need as a goalie, but more so what I lean towards is we don't give enough credit to the non highlight reel saves.
01:13:49
Speaker
And that's kind of the hill that I'm going to die on as my hot take, because there is Like I can watch a save as a goalie coach where a guy pushed across on a two on one on his feet, got a shot.
01:14:04
Speaker
He leaned his shoulder into it, controlled the rebound. And to me, I'm like standing ovation. Let's go. That's unreal. And all the fans in the building.
01:14:16
Speaker
Yeah. Woo. Good job. Okay. Golf clap, whatever. Right. Cause it didn't look nice, but technically it was like perfect. And to me, I think we need more love for those saves and we need less like obsession with the big highlight reel saves because a lot of times that's following a mistake.
01:14:36
Speaker
you know um But that's just that's just my hot take. We need to give less love for the highlight reels and more for the not so nice, but technically sound saves. So that's why I think, uh, we're going to make not sexy Saturday, sexy Sundays, an official thing when, yeah, I, I, I was, I was thinking about that as you were talking about it. It's like, Oh yeah, here's non-sexy Sundays being brought up again.
01:15:04
Speaker
So, um, yeah, I, uh, I agree with you there. Um, I think, uh, But I think in the same breath, I'm kind of okay with non-regular hockey fans kind of being overly excited about those days.
01:15:27
Speaker
Because as goalies or people in the goalie community and the goalie union Only we can be the ones to appreciate those types of sales. So that kind of gives us an opportunity, you know, to like, like we're we we're in this exclusive club. It's like, oh, yeah, he made a, to the untrained eye, it's, oh, yeah, he just, he made a he made a simple glove save. Like, he watched it go into his glove, big whoop.
01:15:51
Speaker
Whereas us, we're like, that's what we want to see. That's what we want, you know, our other goalies to do, you know, because it's so stupidly simple that anybody can do it. Like, why doesn't anybody understand that?
01:16:04
Speaker
You know, or even just with with any kind of movement. So I think, honestly, I can appreciate the the the sentiment of, you know, wanting to have the same,
01:16:17
Speaker
oh my God, what a what a glove save, you know, whatever. and it's just this. But, you know, i but i there's there's there's a little bit of a little bit of poetry, I guess, with just only goalies being able to appreciate as a simple chest cradle save a simple blocker blocker or simple stick or glove save.
01:16:44
Speaker
Yeah, I don't need it to be like the announcer going full Pierre Maguire on Dustin Ticari. Save by number 35! Yeah, i don't need that.
01:16:57
Speaker
But it'd be nice for the NHL to like post a clip to their page of just a real solid save and just being like, wow, look at this save.
01:17:08
Speaker
And it's like, you know, and we just need more love for the... the saves that because the goalie did everything so well, it just looked so mundane, but that's just me.
01:17:21
Speaker
Yeah. I get it. I get Like I said, like I, I understand the, the, the, the sentiment about it, but I, I, yeah. and last one to wrap it up.
01:17:36
Speaker
And this is something I'm trying to, do better with as I go. um But my other hot take is the goalie community as a whole, myself included, as a player and as a coach, although I'm trying to be better at it as a coach, we are too obsessed with perfection.
01:18:02
Speaker
So
01:18:05
Speaker
we like, we're always striving for the, okay, yes, you made the save, but, and sometimes I think we need to just be like, nice save.
01:18:16
Speaker
and There's a fine line for us coaches to walk between correction and sometimes letting these things go and just being like, hey, you know what?
01:18:29
Speaker
You threw something out there. You made a save. Good on you. ah We'll just move on. Right. Yeah. Because as a as a player, there is a lot of things that I missed out on on my career. Like I got to do a lot of cool things, but because I was still striving to get to that next level, striving to keep getting better, you kind of got lost on that a little bit, like what you're actually doing in the now and how good.
01:18:57
Speaker
good I actually was like when I played i just lost a lot of that because I was like no I let in this goal what went wrong what can we do next time oh what you know bad game okay well what do I need to change now right it wasn't the oh That was a good game. You know, good job. Like we're in a good spot right now.
01:19:18
Speaker
Let's, you know, try and figure out a way to build off of that. Like I found at least for me, it was always like, what did I do wrong? What did I do wrong? And I think we kind of need to, as a goalie community, get away from that mentality and understand that there's so many variables that go into a game.
01:19:38
Speaker
It's not going to be perfect. I don't think there's any goalie out there that's never been scored on before, unless you've played maybe two minutes of goal and that's it. But yeah, that that's another one is I think we are too obsessed with perfection.
01:19:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Um, ah some, that's some that I've learned over my tenure as a coach thus far, especially early on, you know, it'd be something as simple as, you know, we, you know, we, we, as at true North go to, you know, we do that drill with the, the, the three elevated pucks, right.
01:20:24
Speaker
Um, And so like if they didn't make a glove save or a blocker save that you know i hadn't i had vision i hadn' envisioned them doing it, then I'd stop the drill and correct it and start over. And so I'd wait waste so much time talking and doing all that and where at some point there's sometimes it's just you just kind of need to especially as a coach you just need to like yeah made the safe move on to the next one right and it's not by any stretch that we're trying to be lazy or anything i think it's just sometimes it's just
01:21:02
Speaker
as as As the old saying goes, you know, pick and choose your battles, right? And so did did the goalie make the same make the stick save and put it into the corner the way that you had told him to her the way that you envisioned it?
01:21:16
Speaker
No. Did the job get done? Yes. Move on to the next one. And then if it's when it starts to become a problem, then that's when you can step back and readjust afterwards. Or even if it's something that's like you're going through video and I've done this as well.
01:21:32
Speaker
where I'm going through video and I'm looking for one particular thing because that's what I want to talk to the goalie about, but i just happened to notice this. I'll be, like I'll touch on it and be like, Hey, stick save didn't look great, but you made the save. So it's, it's, it's, it's okay, whatever, but just make sure, just try and do the, the way that i had told you to do it or the way that I'm instructing you to do it next time.
01:21:55
Speaker
um I think just the, living in the here and now or the just understanding that you're not going to be a, shutout goalie every night.
01:22:09
Speaker
Mistakes are going to happen. You're going to give up bad goals. You're going to make bad saves. um That's life. It happens. And so, Not that we're saying, like don't take your development and your training seriously, but you should.
01:22:24
Speaker
ah it's just ah It's just a thing of, like, perfection doesn't exist. It absolutely does not exist. it is this thing that we strive for, and it is a goal that we will never achieve or anything that we will maintain.
01:22:40
Speaker
But it's it's it's a nice it's a nice sentiment for for for for us as humans to to to to strive for. So I think that's kind of maybe of a way of looking at it.
01:22:54
Speaker
Yeah. All right. You want to take us home? Because that wraps up our list of hot takes for today. this was a yeah This was a fun one.
01:23:04
Speaker
i'm I'm quite proud of this one. um Again, just a huge thank you, I guess, first off to everybody that that that answered. um really Really do appreciate that. And it's kind of nice to see the goalie community. I feel like some people had some stuff to get off the get off of their chest and nobody's given them an outlet to do that. Honor included.
01:23:26
Speaker
Yeah. But... um I don't know. we we we might have to do We might have to do a part two on this here because we had so we' have we've had some other ones um that we've touched on in other episodes.
01:23:41
Speaker
and So if we didn't get to your take in this episode, again, like we said at the start, don't be discouraged or anything. Just go through our catalog of episodes here.
01:23:52
Speaker
Cause like there's a few that, you know, talk about, you know, goaltending and practices and whatever else we did a whole, there's a whole podcast episode on that. Um, just to name one. So I think just, um, yeah, thank you everybody for, for, for submitting your, your takes on that.
01:24:09
Speaker
Um, this this This was a lot of fun, and it made for a very yeah very entertaining episode. but But beyond that, thank you, everybody, so much for listening. If you are listening on your favorite podcasting platforms, Apple, iHeart, Spotify.
01:24:24
Speaker
If you're watching over on the YouTube side of things, make sure you hit that subscribe button and share the channel along with the podcast. If you are listening on the podcast platforms, Because the more goalies that we bring towards the goalie community, the better, as we just witnessed in today's episode.
01:24:37
Speaker
If you are following us on our social media programs, you can follow us there at True North Goaltending, because that is who the this this podcast is sponsored by now, as we emerged everything over from the DIY goalie to True North Goaltending.
01:24:50
Speaker
If you are following us on Instagram, because we like to be different, you can follow us there at Y-E-G Goalie Coach. You can follow myself on Instagram as well at MondayGC. We got a lot of entertaining stuff and a lot of exciting stuff coming in the mix here. So make sure you guys head over to truenorthgoaltending.com for all that stuff. All of those links will be down in the show notes below. Until then, goalies, make some saves.
01:25:11
Speaker
We'll see you guys next time. Take care.