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Nos Audietis: Talking social justice with Joshua Ford and Sean Muldoon
64 Plays4 years ago
It wasn't necessarily intended as a Martin Luther King Day episode, but the time of Jeremiah's conversation with Sounders Academy goalkeepers coach Joshua Ford and Head Strength and conditioning coach Sean Muldoon worked out pretty perfectly. Ford and Muldoon have been two of the bigger behind-the-scenes forces in terms of helping raise awareness of various social justice causes among the Sounders. Perhaps most notably is their efforts to bring attention to Manny Ellis' murder, a case that has highlight all sorts of concerning law-enforcement behavior.
This week's music: Perry Como - "Seattle", "RVIVR - "Ocean Song", Woody Guthrie - "Roll On Columbia", "Your Journey Begins" - OurMusicBox (Jay Man) (CC BY 4.0)
Thanks to James Woollard, Sounders Public Address Announcer, for doing our sponsor reads. You can follow him on Twitter at @BritVoxUS - if you’re looking for a British Voice to advertise your business or non-profit, please reach out to him.
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Transcript
Introduction to 36 Bottles of Wine
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of No Sadietes is sponsored by Full Pool Wines, a Seattle-based wine seller who recently released their first book, 36 Bottles of Wine. The ethos of the book, a highly curated look at wine categories that provide exceptional value right now, should be familiar to full pool readers. But there's loads of fresh content, and since it's not trying to sell any wine through the book, there's a bit more of a sass factor.
00:00:21
Speaker
And there's food. Lots of it. Fulpel's unique writing styles applied to recipes like leftover Thanksgiving, turkey, schmaltz-a-ball soup, and pregnancy nachos. This book can be purchased through Sasquatch Books. Hey,
Introduction by Seattle Sounders FC Players
00:00:33
Speaker
this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. Hey, Ocean! Let's go! Jordan Morris getting in behind Florian Youngford. Jordan Morris! Scores!
00:00:49
Speaker
And how's this for a save from Steph and Fry? Here come three deers through the middle to crowd it for Seattle. What do the Tigers dream of when they take a little Tigers in? It's the Sounders, M-N-S-Cup. I feel a lot better than Bob.
00:01:17
Speaker
The bluest skies you've ever seen are in Seattle And the hills the greenest green in Seattle
00:01:33
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Nos Adietes. Joining me
Promoting Social Justice within Seattle Sounders FC
00:01:38
Speaker
today is Joshua Ford, who you probably know from his time as a Sounders player, but he is currently the goalkeeping coach in the Sounders Academy, and Sean Muldoon, who was on the training staff for the Sounders. And the reason I brought them in here today was they've been both kind of driving force behind the
00:02:00
Speaker
the social justice efforts within the Sounders. I don't know how much they had to do necessarily with the outward projection of that, but certainly inside the team, it felt like you guys were driving forces behind that. And this seems like a good a time as any to kind of learn a little bit more about those efforts and to see where they might be going. But first of all, welcome to the show, guys. Thank you, thank you. Joshua here.
00:02:28
Speaker
Yeah, thanks for having us. We're happy to be here. So let's just start there.
Local vs National Social Justice Issues
00:02:34
Speaker
How would you guys describe your efforts in this sphere as it relates to the sounders, as it relates to the larger movement?
00:02:48
Speaker
Well, Joshua here, I think the first one, right, it was more so Sean and I having conversations for an overextended period of time, not just within the climate of right now, you know, within George Floyd and all that stuff. It's, it's been things that kind of been going on for some time, as I already mentioned. And for me, it was, you know, Sean and I discussed multiple times that we need to be able to take action and using our platform as concerned citizens, but also people inside of an organization, you know, that,
00:03:18
Speaker
maybe be able to speak and, you know, actually draw attention to things that are happening, not just outside, but also internally within the state of Washington.
00:03:30
Speaker
Yeah, and just to kind of piggyback off of what Joshua said that of really bringing the focus like local, you know, a lot of the conversations that Josh and I would have about like, what's happening here in Seattle, what's happening in Washington, you know, and how can we make the place that we live and we work and we play a safer, more equitable
00:03:51
Speaker
spot because this is our home and it's really important that we're working within the community and active members. And so just trying to bring as much attention and focus and efforts just right here, especially within the conversation of these more national, I mean, Joshua brought up the George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and a lot of these national names, but there's a lot happening here that needs to be addressed and to be worked on. And so just to try to bring our focus
00:04:21
Speaker
to our backyard. So you look at MLS, and I think MLS on a big picture scale has a image of being a pretty progressive and open-minded league in those ways. But when you really get into American soccer, it is a pretty insular community. It's not the most diverse player pool. It's certainly not as diverse as the country's population would suggest it should be.
00:04:52
Speaker
And you can kind of look at the sounders in that way too, where it's like, in some ways they have a lot of progressive ideals, but in other practices, maybe that it's not always as apparent. What was the reception that you received or what was the mood around the team, maybe among the players, when you guys first started bringing the stuff up and maybe started moving it beyond conversations between the two of you and into a wider pool of players and staff?
00:05:21
Speaker
Well,
Player Activism in Orlando Bubble
00:05:22
Speaker
for me, I think first it wasn't just us that brought it up. It was, you know, Christian Rodin bringing it to attention while he was down in Orlando in the bubble. I think people forget that he wore that name on his jersey to bring, you know, awareness to not just us and you know, maybe people that are
00:05:38
Speaker
somewhat soccer fans it's you know to bring awareness that hey there's actually something going on that's important to me you know or to the group or to just locals that are actually living inside of the state of washington so i don't want to just grab saying um
00:05:56
Speaker
We were the ones pushing it on the internal side. It was one Christian who was looking to at least demonstrate his voice. And, you know, I thought it was important that it's not just that we continue to do it just one time. It's the ability to now keep this action going, to be able to discuss a little bit further and how maybe we can bring a little bit more attention as time is going on. It's easy to just say, you know,
00:06:17
Speaker
The most crippling name would be George Floyd, but when you put Manny Ellis on there and people start to Google it or start to look into it and people are thinking everywhere is pretty progressive or the league is progressive or Seattle itself is progressive, we actually look in and you see that it's potentially not. It's potentially situations that are going on.
00:06:37
Speaker
with inside of our local community that, as Sean earlier said, need to be addressed and not just from maybe the sounders organization, but you know, just as local community members, that's important to what we are trying to go ahead and push is that just because of where we stand and where we're at right now doesn't
00:06:58
Speaker
not able to use our voice in a way that can help, you know, elevate certain situations that are happening and at least go ahead and enlighten some people or try to bring a little bit more awareness to people to what's happening. How can we prove?
BLM Initiatives and Community Engagement
00:07:11
Speaker
How can we actually discuss these things? And, you know, I appreciate what Christian did because it's not easy to just go ahead and take some of that pressure and, you know, deal with it that way.
00:07:24
Speaker
Yeah, and definitely like bringing up the Orlando piece on our on our travel down there. The entire organization wore Black Lives Matter shirts, but that was a complete player led initiative like like players and staff and
00:07:40
Speaker
Individual folks were buying buying shirts, you know and saying this is something that we're doing and we want to do and so it was, you know, for me, especially like supporting the players this, you know, and saying that this is something that matters and when we when we arrive and when a picture show that the defending champs are showing up to the MLS is back tournament like this is the message that that
00:08:00
Speaker
We want to have out there. And so that was that was a player thing. And that was, you know, it was important to to support their voices and and be a part of it, you know, and Joshua and I were talking on the side and having our own conversations just like they were. And so it was it really is kind of the nexus of of the Athletic Justice Collective group.
00:08:19
Speaker
was realizing that a lot of folks were having conversations within their own spaces that were similar to the ones that Joshua and I were having. And it was like, well, how can we find a way to link these people up, to link everybody together who's interested in similar topics that we are and interested in really uplifting and protecting and taking care of our community. And again, being active members of it, not just doing a one-time donation here or a post here, but like,
00:08:45
Speaker
actually showing up day in day out for our community. And there was a lot of folks who have already been leaders and already doing that and just trying to connect efforts to better support each other.
00:08:55
Speaker
So if memory serves Orlando, the getting on the bus to Orlando may have been the first time that there was this really collective voice of, of players, uh, making a statement like black lives matter, uh, and putting it on shirts and, and, and doing the whole thing there. But I would imagine there was some conversations going on before Orlando as well. And I'm, I'm curious like how.
00:09:20
Speaker
much of an opening this like this whole summer provided to bring those conversations out into the public and how much of those conversations were really going on behind the scenes beforehand.
Journey of Athlete Activism
00:09:38
Speaker
I mean, I think in terms of the public conversations, that's something that is for sure up to the players. They're the ones with the huge platform, the huge voices, the huge followings. And so if and when specific players feel comfortable and decide they want to say something, that's up to them. And everybody's kind of on a different timeline of their own journey in terms of
00:10:03
Speaker
their athlete activism and community involvement. And the conversations behind the scenes have been happening for years. And I mean, this is coming from me of a straight white male perspective. So I was like, yeah, I can talk about the things that I've done in my past, but that doesn't matter when I decided to opt in or not, because I have the luxury and the privilege to opt into this conversation. So it's
00:10:28
Speaker
When did it start? Well, I can speak from my perspective, but that doesn't really matter. There's other folks that have been dealing with these issues their entire lives. When organizations or individuals or athletes or people decide to
00:10:47
Speaker
to speak up is up to them and how they wanna make their voice heard if they do or not. And for me as a close friend of Joshua realizing through the course of our conversations and my own specific journey of just like,
00:11:11
Speaker
coming to the point where I need to use my privileges and my status as, you know, an ally and to speak up more and to take care of and work on some of the issues in terms of
00:11:28
Speaker
you know, the fact that our country is built in a white supremacist model and that the police are it's not inherently an equitable system. And I've been a beneficiary of that. So like the there's more responsibility on me to show up and do my part and get everybody who's in within my circle in my life to do the same thing because the other responsibilities on us. So it really just depends, I think, where. Where folks are coming from.
00:11:57
Speaker
So Joshua, did you, like obviously this is a different, you're coming at this from a different perspective than either Sean or I are.
00:12:06
Speaker
What were like, did you get a sense of there being a change in a willingness to listen or a change in in the ability to have these conversations that maybe felt I don't know. Was it
Understanding Racial Issues
00:12:22
Speaker
easy? Was it has it always been easy? Was there was there any sort of change in terms of the way people were willing to listen to these types of conversations?
00:12:36
Speaker
I don't think it's an easy cut and dry answer. So for me, I don't think, maybe it's just me sometimes as my personality, but I think as things were going on this year in the summer, it was hard not to at least address it to some degree, right? That doesn't mean that people had to believe it. It was just in their face for a little bit. And I think people had heard emotions about
00:13:03
Speaker
what they're trying to either explain or understand to either family members or friends as they're watching, you know, specifically George Floyd. Like when everyone was locked down, I think that kind of just put a lot of emotion onto things.
00:13:20
Speaker
The years gone on and relations have not gone a little bit less, but as we see certain things within the country, I don't see if people were able to understand as much. They maybe were trying to listen, but I don't necessarily mean that you're actually understanding the situation or understanding where someone's coming from or understanding what the issues may be.
00:13:45
Speaker
I believe that there are some people of other ethnicities I've been trying to understand, but to grapple with it saying, well, you deal with it every day. I don't think that's true. The world's not like that. It's very difficult as a person of color to say,
00:14:00
Speaker
Well, then how are you trying to really understand me then, right? Because at certain moments, I thought it was, yes, people are trying to listen, people are trying to understand, but to Sean's point earlier, they're able to opt in or opt out. So if you become a little heavy harder, you become tired of listening or become tired of a situation of saying, oh, well, you know what? I'm tired of this today. I'm going to just go do something else. Well, that doesn't become very easy for a person of color because they can't opt in or out of where they're being seen or not seen.
00:14:31
Speaker
It's many stories of being a black person or a person of color inside the United States. But, you know, to Sean's point a little bit, it's might become a little bit easier if it comes from a white person understanding or hearing it or talking to his white friends.
00:14:46
Speaker
or the person of, not of color, being able to discuss that, you know, but there's also, people have to start to either get over or address themselves and just saying, oh, well, I listened to this podcast or I listened to this person speak, or, you know, I went and tried to donate this amount of money. So I think I'm giving back. That doesn't necessarily mean that you're making a long change, a long systemic change. And it's great to maybe take a step, but, you know, I think
00:15:12
Speaker
Now, with everything going on, it's clear that people needed to be taking a step a while sooner and walking with the group to be able to try and drive this a bit forward. And I mean, everyone maybe will start to understand and see things at a different time. That's perfectly okay. But, you know, to say that it's not happening or not there is very difficult to now address and say inside of this. I think the United States that's being shown, you know, I don't think it's really being
00:15:40
Speaker
quote unquote, different than what it has been. I think now it's just people are starting to see a little bit more of what the United States actually is to people of color. You know, I think the capital issues are some of the most apparent things right now. Do you, I mean,
00:15:59
Speaker
So from a big perspective, maybe things haven't changed. And this is clearly like part of a long process, I would imagine. But have you gotten a sense that there's more willingness to listen, there's more willingness to hear, or is it, I mean, is it just seen that way maybe from the outside? I think yes, I think people are trying, right? I think that's kind of someone would,
00:16:28
Speaker
We're asking, you know, I think people of color asking like, hey, there needs to be an effort to actually make the difference. I think, yes, you can say people are listening. I think people are trying to make certain differences. You see organizations trying to donate to obviously grassroots organizations that have been doing things for a very long time that are trying to continue to make
00:16:46
Speaker
It changes with inside the community that other people may not see. There's other organizations that you know are involved, such as must, you know, which is mentoring understanding students and teens, right for people that are in other lower organizations or lower schools and don't have a good turnout rate for a prison.
00:17:07
Speaker
school-to-prison pipeline, you know, that now can other organizations get involved and help that, right? Because they'll be helping the youth, they'll be helping teens trying to get into college, trying to go ahead and better themselves from organizations or situations that they may not be able to get out of. So I think there's people listening, right? I think there's people trying to make a difference, right?
Supporting Players for Meaningful Change
00:17:28
Speaker
I mean, you have the owners of the organization itself here and Russ making big differences and changes as they can, right? And I mean,
00:17:36
Speaker
There are people trying to listen. There are people trying to make a difference. There are people trying to change. But there's also people not. So it's hard to say that, you know, everyone's listening. Sure. How effective do you think or how well do you think the message carried on beyond, you know, there were, you know, like the black players for change was a very public
00:18:04
Speaker
the organization being like kind of announcing its presence was a big public thing and that created some attention for sure. How effective do you think though that message carried on beyond you know the big displays that down in Orlando and how effective or how and how optimistic are you about there being real change
00:18:25
Speaker
affected and that they're being real change coming in terms of the way that players of color are seen within MLS but also outside of MLS.
00:18:36
Speaker
I think it was fantastic. I mean, it's a long time coming for something like that to actually formulate. And now I think within the climate of the MLS and the states of sports culture right now, that was a good time to come through because it was it was accepting. It was welcome to some degree of being the players being able to come out in the bubble to march together, to be able to come up and put a fist up or stand together in unity all as one. You know, I mean, that was I was wrong.
00:19:07
Speaker
But, you know, I mean, there was big issues between black players and people of color just trying to kneel and what that would actually do to their career, you know, to be able to speak out and make a statement of that choice. So for me, I thought it was huge for them to come out and do that. Now, that being said, they've done made fields, they've looked to go out and join with the WNSL or the Women's League.
00:19:29
Speaker
And for me, I think that's huge, right? That we're joining across some different organizations, but in the same markets and everything regarding that.
00:19:41
Speaker
the black players would change. I think, you know, it's going to come down to along, and they would stand certain situations that may try to block their path later on. I think they will. I think I have a lot of faith that they will. But, you know, once kind of the bubble ended, it also had issues when they came back in Dallas. You know, it was clear that there wasn't maybe where everyone else felt. So now potentially as a player being in the bubble,
00:20:09
Speaker
They may be able to support or feeling the support from the league and you go back to your market and you don't have that same support. How does that make the black player or the player of color feel, you know, with inside of that situation? So how welcoming is it to speak out? How are you able to address the things that you see happening inside of your organization or in the market that you're in? But I have a lot of faith that the group is going to be able to make a change. And it's not just the players on the field. It's helping the staff. It's helping grow, hopefully within the organizations of getting
00:20:39
Speaker
more coaches that look like me a chance to go ahead and be pushing on to now greater and better things. So are there areas that you specific areas where you feel like MLS can be better and needs to make a concerted effort to be better?
00:21:01
Speaker
or are there more general, maybe not, and maybe if not specifics, are there more general things where like what can be done to help move this forward to make sure that this is not just a, you know, a one year thing that maybe happens during COVID, but like is a real change that, uh, that, that like affects the trajectory of, of, of careers and, and helps actually uplift lives.
00:21:30
Speaker
I
MLS's Role in Systemic Change
00:21:31
Speaker
think their money, where their mouth is, man, like there's, there, there's endless opportunities to create change. And, and, you know, with it, with a turnover at RSO, like can that be, you know, a black owned ownership group, you know, Ken, obviously like Josie was very vocal about what happened there and wanting to be interested. Like, you know, there's, there's countless opportunities for the league to support the players, to support staff, to create,
00:21:59
Speaker
you know, pipelines for positions to, I mean, there's endless opportunities for change. And if the league is serious about this, then they have plenty of smart, capable folks who can show up and say, here's how we think, you know,
00:22:18
Speaker
we can do better and have a conversation with the black players for change with, you know, I mean, how many black assistant coaches are there in MLS? Can they reach out to them? Oh, what are some of the hurdles to having more assistant coaches? Like the possibilities are there. There has to be a want and they have to, they're gonna lose something, right? Is that money? Is that gonna be power? Is that gonna be prestige? What's the thing that they're willing to give up? Cause it's gonna be a compromise, right?
00:22:48
Speaker
to give up their, their standing of, you know, all white owners or you know okay great so who's willing to change it now are so we have an opportunity right to to make to make a big change there, and to, and to, to do something different.
00:23:06
Speaker
I mean, again, through academies, through reserve teams, through first teams, there are opportunities there. There has to be a want and a willingness to step forward and say, this actually makes sense for our league that we're not looking at it just from a bottom line standpoint, investing money here or there or not, like that's. Yeah, so so just.
00:23:29
Speaker
I personally will not accept, uh, Oh, well it's really hard. Yeah. Of course it's hard, but like, that doesn't, that doesn't matter. There there's, there's possibilities and, and I, you know, we'll be, we'll be looking at it and be very vocal around whatever, whatever they present. Um, you know, and if it, if it's, um, who, who was involved in making that decision, you know, what kind of stakeholders were there, what kind of voices were given, um, how did they arrive at those decisions and, and what, what does that look like? Because it's,
00:23:57
Speaker
Yeah, there's no excuse not to now. There's no excuse. If you, if you make the stands that the league has and said what they've said, then, then you better back it up because, uh, you know, talk is cheap. So, so one of the areas where I'm, I'm just kind of curious if how much perspective you guys can give on this, but it seemed to me that August 26 was a day that was maybe a first big opportunity for MLS to kind of, uh,
00:24:24
Speaker
You know, like put some strength behind a lot of the words that the league had put out. And I don't, I mean, I don't know how.
00:24:33
Speaker
Like, did you were you happy with the way that all played out August 26 obviously was the day that that the league essentially went dark for all but one game and a lot of games around the country and various sports were all and ended up being postponed or canceled. But if if either of you thought that that was like how that
00:24:58
Speaker
how that day influenced the way you see the state of this movement or change.
00:25:08
Speaker
I think it's important
Impact of August 26 Player Protests
00:25:09
Speaker
to recognize that that was players. That wasn't the league. Right. Absolutely. Because if it was the league, why was there one game played? Why was the league not in front of this? So this was the players demanding difference, putting their voice out there. So the league gets no credit for not playing games. They didn't have a choice because the players said, this is important to us. We want to have this conversation.
00:25:35
Speaker
Yeah, the league put out their, their, their memo or whatever is saying, Oh yeah, we're not gonna play games a day minus the one we played this morning. But that was like, let's, let's pretend that one didn't happen. So, uh, no, this was a player, player led player voices, um, saying, you know, we demand better. Um, so, you know,
00:25:54
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and I guess that's kind of what I'm talking about. And that's that was kind of my point was that the that it was a chance for the league to put some and I don't and I don't and I don't want to presuppose an answer there that, you know, the league had that was the the players essentially tested the league there. And I don't know what the answer is to the question. But you're right. It was it was a player led movement. And I think it's important to clarify that that was a player led movement.
00:26:22
Speaker
Um, and I'm just curious if, if, if that had an impact one way or the other, like was that a positive sign that the league essentially got on board, even if they didn't have a choice or was it a, uh, was it a negative sign that they weren't out ahead of it? Was it a neutral and was it just neutral, just like just a sign of the times?
00:26:43
Speaker
Honestly, I think it's, it's, uh, depending on who you ask in this situation and how some of those answers are going to come across. So I think at some points, right? It wasn't just the MLS. I think the biggest stance was the WNBA and the lemmas coming out.
00:26:58
Speaker
And I want to first acknowledge those. One, the reason was because of the Jacob Blake shot seven times in the back. Right. That's the reason why we're talking about it. It's not just the day it went dark. It's there's a reason behind it and how we describe it is important in context that we give it because
00:27:14
Speaker
If you just say day goes dark, then you're not bringing attention to some of the issues that are happening inside of America. So for me, I think Milwaukee comes and makes a big statement. The NBA goes ahead and follows suit, and now it comes on to the rest of the country and other leagues and how they kind of address certain situations that
00:27:34
Speaker
they were willing to speak up about. And for me, the WNBA making the stances saying we're not going to play along with the NBA, I think was huge and important to draw attention to because I think those leagues have been attacking these situations far, far longer than the MLS and other
00:27:50
Speaker
bigger, quote unquote, corporations have right and organizations as MLS or MLB and you know the NHL. I think those women are making long stances of how they can go ahead and promote change. And, you know, if we don't bring awareness to that, then we're not doing a service, you know, we're doing them a disservice because it's hard to make those steps, those dances and those changes. And so for me,
00:28:14
Speaker
It was it was great to see the WNBA do that. And then, you know, what are the other reactions from the other top leagues in the country? Because, you know, we were in a pandemic. We are in a situation where people want to try to play, get that. And people want to be playing as athletes. They want to be out there on the field doing what they love. But sometimes there's things that are bigger than just playing sports. And I think that's what people start to see. So, you know, I mean, the one game gets played.
00:28:42
Speaker
Right. The MLS tries to go ahead and say that we made making a stance that no other games will be played. The Sounders address said they won't play. You know, but is it is the organization or is it going to be the players that get the credit to this? And for me, I think it's the players. You know, it's tough to say we're not going to go out there to play, especially in a situation where not everybody is from America.
00:29:06
Speaker
Right. I think when you're watching games with the NBA, a lot of guys are from the States. They go ahead and have to deal with these situations. And, you know, it's much easier to go ahead and talk about them when you have people that are looking like you or people that have come up from situations around you. Then if you come into maybe a locker room, that's very international. It's very different.
00:29:24
Speaker
It's very, people don't have the same experiences, may not speak the same language, may not come from the same environment. And how do you kind of draw that attention to each other of saying, well, my one team maybe has to deal with this. I think we all have to deal with it. It's not just now being able to say, well, I'm from somewhere else, so this doesn't affect me. I think it's now the time of people being able to say,
00:29:43
Speaker
that this isn't okay, that it affects a good part of our community, meaning a good part of our community of being people that are watching and paying for games, people that are supporting the teams, people that are being involved.
00:29:58
Speaker
Association and players that are involved station. It's not just now Okay, people that are outside in community It's it affects everybody and to be able to address that is more important than just saying Certain things I think it's that affects everybody from players staff the community people that are paying to come watch And if we're not looking out for those people, then what are we really doing? So one of the the specific areas where the sounders were able to raise awareness and and I think to your credit I don't I don't know how
00:30:28
Speaker
how front and center Manny Ellis was in this conversation before the sounders helped push his name out there. But can you just speak a little bit about the Manny Ellis, his whole situation and, you know, how
00:30:49
Speaker
whether or I guess whether or not you feel like that has moved in a positive like the the investigation into that has moved in a in a way that has you know it seems like every day we are not every day but we've constantly learned a lot more about that whole investigation that has been I mean disappointing I think at the very least and but maybe predictable in other ways but if you could speak to that a little bit and and
00:31:18
Speaker
I don't know, just maybe how it's illustrative of the larger issue of what's being brought to light.
00:31:29
Speaker
Yeah, I think I'll touch on it a little bit and I know Sean will touch on it a bit as well. So, I mean, that was maybe one of the reasons on why we're trying to have been starting up this group called the AJC, the Athletic Justice Collective, because it was something that was important to us to keep continuing on the conversation. You know, with Manny Ellis, I thought that was huge. One, because it's in Tacoma.
00:31:53
Speaker
We have a USL team that is in Tacoma. We have players that look like me that play for Tacoma. So with that being said, we need to be able to also support the community that we're that we're in. It's not
Addressing Manny Ellis's Case
00:32:04
Speaker
just a, like we said, national situation in our situations that are local that are, you know,
00:32:10
Speaker
that should have attention as well and for reasons right multiple reasons they should be addressed and some I already alluded to but also um the sounders have been big into the community and you know it's it's now trying to figure out how they can be
00:32:25
Speaker
effective in this space, because it's not maybe an easy space to be in, right, dealing with social injustices, being able to speak out on certain things, right, the potential of being wrong, maybe the case is something else, but there's also no reason for a person like, looking like me to be viewed or dehumanized or killed in situations just because of going out into the store. So for that being said, it was important that
00:32:55
Speaker
One, we continue what Christian was doing in the bubble, bringing awareness to a situation that is close to home. Two, it was more important that we keep it a topic of discussion because, as we all know, certain things can be
00:33:09
Speaker
one day inside the news and next week it's gone, right? We're producing and doing well in the game. How much does that really get a lot of credit or being talked about? And the Sounders are doing well. Seahawks are doing well, right? As the pandemic was going on, coronavirus is going up and going higher and higher and higher. So the news go ahead and complete whatever they want out. But we also want to make sure that that's being addressed and not being lost as information and lost as a situation to keep in the forefront because of
00:33:39
Speaker
actions that people want to see. We want to see change you know and I think that's some of the most important parts about the group forming is that we are coming together to try and make change and so Sean and I thought it was very important to be able to use our our voices and also help and bring information to people and players that had legitimate concerns about the Manny Ellis case and and
00:34:03
Speaker
how they could be involved. And Sean's done a great job of getting in contact with, you know, the lawyers. We were able to reach out to certain
00:34:15
Speaker
Um, local people, you know, Nikki Oliver has been fantastic in our help and trying to understand certain situations. We have Katrina Johnson has been doing fantastic work already with inside of the community and making legislative changes. But, you know, bring, bring just more awareness to certain things that we can try to help facilitate and amplify, you know, to, to people that are concerned citizens. And that's one thing I think is, is to just address, you know, it's not, it was just an organization. It was, it was.
00:34:42
Speaker
concerned citizens that were able to speak up and be able to try to reach our attention as well to make sure that this case and the information about the case is still being relevant.
00:34:56
Speaker
Yeah, for me personally, thinking that the powers that be, people don't want to give up the power that they have. And these structures that were built on systemic racism and are not interested in changing, which is why information about the case is getting released
00:35:16
Speaker
between Christmas and New Year's, right? Trying to hide the fact that two new officers were involved in a case in a time when it was like the lowest news awareness, right? If people are trying to shut down, they try to release it. Like there's, you know, where this happened, Manny was murdered in March and the investigation is just being concluded.
00:35:36
Speaker
Officers are still getting on paid vacation right now. One officer was working this entire time that has been involved. The systems are banking on people not caring. The systems are banking on the community not being mad at what's happening.
00:35:53
Speaker
uh and like that's not acceptable like that that can happen like we're still waiting to hear if any of the five or six officers involved are going to be charged even though the you know the mayor of Tacoma has been very vocal about them than being arrested uh you know Governor Inslee has spoke about it you know we have we have heroes like
00:36:11
Speaker
Christian and Jordan wearing Justice for Manny Ellis shirts at the MLS Cup final. You know they're there. This community cares a lot and the powers that be are banking on on us forgetting and moving on because you know since Manny was murdered, there's been others.
00:36:26
Speaker
Right here in in Washington, you know Kevin Peterson jr. Was involved in a police involved shooting You know like they're they're banking on okay We'll just move forward people are tired people that look like me get tired and get to opt out and say well That's all right. Like I'll deal with this another day I'll send my my one all-black Instagram post and then go back to doing my life right and that like that that's where
00:36:52
Speaker
Folks who have a voice, folks who have a platform, who have a following, who are invested in their community can help amplify the work of the Katrina Johnsons and other impacted families. You know, Charlina Lyle's family hasn't gotten justice. Renee Davis's family hasn't gotten justice.
00:37:08
Speaker
There's countless families right here in Washington that are still waiting for even information about what happened to their loved ones. And so, you know, for for us and our group, keeping making sure the information is available, you know, as as updates are happening.
00:37:25
Speaker
and and keeping keeping names alive because these were loved ones these are people that that their family cared about and and and loved and mattered and they're not just like you know hashtags these are these are people that and and so if if our ability
00:37:43
Speaker
is to help keep their name and their memory alive and keep justice and have accountability for those that have wronged them. Can we support the legislation that's happening right now? It's now a legislative session in which there's some really interesting
00:38:04
Speaker
bills up in the House and the Senate here in Washington that, you know, can we support? Does the community know about that? You know, again, is there something that we can do to help ensure this doesn't happen? Because there are far too many impacted families and far too many comfortable people who have been just continuing to live their life, even though they've been involved. And, you know, I mean,
Amplifying Community Voices
00:38:28
Speaker
Ed Troyer is now getting promotions and moving on and now making more decisions about what's happening. And he was instrumental in lying to the public about what happened with Manny Ellis. Like either the folks that look like me who I'm responsible for either don't know or don't care and neither one of those is acceptable. So there's a responsibility on myself to help make sure those are both addressed because that's not okay.
00:38:56
Speaker
And we can and we'll do better because, because it matters like this is like we have one life, you know, and so when that when that gets snatched up unfairly then then what like, so it's, you know, there's there's a lot of heroes in our community doing incredible work and, and it's, you know,
00:39:17
Speaker
we have an opportunity to help support their work and amplify the voices and the messages that are dealing with this day in, day out. And I think that's something that the group, our AJC group has done a really great job about communicating amongst, across every professional sports team in Seattle, their memberships, and communicating about these and how we can influence change within our specific networks.
00:39:42
Speaker
So acknowledging that this is very much an ongoing thing, it's something that doesn't have an easy way to wrap up. It doesn't
Concluding Thoughts on Community Engagement
00:39:51
Speaker
have an easy way to leave on a positive note or anything along those lines. But is there something that you would want to leave people with that are listening to this and thinking like,
00:40:03
Speaker
Okay, like I'm, I already buy into this, but what do I do next? Is there like an easy or not easy, but is there a logical next step of, of, you know, continuing to apply pressure or continuing to do things that you would like to see done?
00:40:21
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you know, there are there are positive things that you can look forward to. You know, I think it's it's it's more sort of a heavy conversation that people are still having. Right. And one thing is that you can do to look to try and make things better, still talk about things. Right. It's not easy to carry on conversations and feel
00:40:41
Speaker
You know, OK, well, I feel uplifted about this because now you hear certain things or certain stories of people and you're trying to figure out, well, how do I make a change? And, you know, I mean, being able to carry on a conversation with somebody without bringing full on emotions is important. Right. Being able to listen and hear people is important.
00:40:59
Speaker
But, you know, I think there's ways that you can make changes, right? It's being informed. It's learning about bills, right? I understand some of those situations are trying to now, you know, read through a bill and be like, okay, what does this mean? How does this affect me? You know, long term, how does this affect me? And being a little bit more conscious about what's in the news.
00:41:21
Speaker
hear and view things now, right? Because I think a lot of the ways that people hear information is changing or helping their views of what they may be coming across to us. So I think there are certain moments that you can leave on a positive, right? I think there's things that you can address. I think there's ways that you can be active inside of your community. I think there's ways that you can go ahead and look into certain programs that might instrumentally affect you, right? Not everything is going to be
00:41:50
Speaker
around police brutality and things like that. I think there's ways that people can get involved in education, right? There's Black Lives Matter of Week coming up in February, you know, starting in the first week of February and going through up to the end of the year, being able to now acknowledge certain things that are inside people's schools, their children's schools, looking at how
00:42:09
Speaker
Being information is spread to them, right? Is it being whitewashed? Is it being able to now address things that are actually have happened in the United States, right? And having conversations with your kids, I think that's important as well.
00:42:26
Speaker
How do you address certain things? How do you now speak to them regarding some of these issues because they're becoming more evident? Also, I think there's ways that now you can leave on a positive note by being involved in the community by learning about local grassroots organizations, right? And, you know, it's an information age.
00:42:44
Speaker
All you have to do is go on a computer, look at your cell phone, look up something, right? How do I get involved? And just actually now taking the step because I think for some people, you know, it's always been, well, how do I do this? How do I do this? How do I make a change? It's not going to be easy. It's not going to be, you get to take one step that week and say, okay, I've made a change. It's how can you continuously show up for some organization or for some group?
00:43:08
Speaker
I know there's some people that may love to cook, so maybe you can provide food for people. There's some people that may have extra
00:43:17
Speaker
Tense things like that. I know homelessness becoming very huge and very big issue because of COVID because of COVID-19. Right. So how do you go ahead and change? How do you go ahead and make a change in your life to be able to make a difference for the future? Because it's very difficult to say, oh, I want action now and I want to see the change now. But over something that's been over well over 400 years, it's hard to see it just a change in a day. So I think it's
00:43:45
Speaker
you have to be a little bit more realistic. Sometimes being able to be realistic has to be able to grip with the chance that, all right, I may not see the big change in my lifetime, but I'm definitely making an effort and change to make it for my grandchildren and my children's children's situation to now move forward. Because if you don't, then you're just standing, watching everybody else pass you by. Well, that's probably a good place to end it, Joshua.
00:44:13
Speaker
I really do appreciate you guys coming on here, talking to me, educating me, hopefully educating our listeners as well. And I really appreciate the work you guys are doing to kind of push this out into the mainstream, to put these conversations. And I'm sure the conversations that you're having behind the scenes are equally helpful, if not more helpful.
00:44:38
Speaker
Best of luck in everything you guys are doing with the sounders. And hopefully, you know, we get to a better place in all this. But thanks for doing this, guys. No problem. Thank you, Jeremiah. All right. Yeah, thanks for having us on. You're listening to NOS Adiatus.
00:44:56
Speaker
Green Douglas bird where the water's cut through. Down to wild mountains and tangents you flew. Canadian Northwest to the ocean so blue. It's Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Your power is turning our darkness to dawn. Roll On, Columbia Roll On.
00:45:33
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!