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From the Ashes: The Success of Mass Effect 2 || Mass Effect Month
92 Plays5 months ago
In the year 2022, two podcasters travelled through time to stop the threat of the podcast bots, unaware that it was the beginning of something far bigger. After establishing the PodPack Collective, the Chatsunami podcast and their allies now ready themselves to defend against the podcast promoters that lurk in the darkest depths of the internet.
They called it the greatest alliance in podcasting history.
The communities of the internet call it... MASS EFFECT MONTH.
Welcome to the beginning of Mass Effect Month! In this episode, Satsunami is joined by PodPack member Marie from the 2 Girls 1 Reusable Cup podcast to discuss one of gaming's greatest sequels: Mass Effect 2! But what makes Mass Effect 2 so iconic? Does it still have enough to support it 14 years later? And who are our top love interests?! All this and more on the Garrus variety hour- I mean, this episode of Mass Effect Month!
This podcast is a member of the PodPack Collective, an indie podcasting group dedicated to spreading positivity within the podcast community. For further information, please follow the link: https://linktr.ee/podpackcollective
Check out all of our content here: https://linktr.ee/chatsunami
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Stay safe, stay awesome and most importantly, stay hydrated!
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Transcript
Emergency Escape from a Shipwreck
00:00:05
Speaker
We have to get out of here. The ship's been torn apart. Dammit, I'm not leaving the crew. Get out of here before- What is this place? Wait, is that Garros? What? It's... This was not covered by my training manuals.
Mass Effect 2 Review: Kicking Off Mass Effect Month
00:00:26
Speaker
Where do you think you're going? We've got Mass Effect 2 to review. But my space husband is right there. I thought you were dead. Back off, ya alien. Welcome to Mass Effect Month. Now get down those stairs. Okay, okay, quit shoving.
Special Guest Miri Joins the Chatsunami
00:00:45
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome back to the second episode of Mass Effect Month. My name is Satsunami and joining me today aboard the Chatsunami is none other than the absolutely fantastic Miri from the Two Girls, One Reusable Cup Podcast. Miri, welcome back. Thank you for having me back. Yeah, how does it feel to be back from the dead? The dead? Oh, this good. Sorry. Yeah, I was making a Massified reference. Yeah, sorry. We have so many in-jokes. It's really difficult to keep track, but now I'm in Mass Effect mode. Yeah, the Podpack can wait till it gets really dark at times.
00:01:24
Speaker
Yeah I know it feels great. Got taken out by some sheen enthusiasts earlier so you know, come back to take my revenge. Yeah to be fair we thought it was going to be the podcast promoters and turns out yeah it's the sheen collectors you know. And the Stanley Cup stands. They weren't really happy with what I said last time. Yeah their ship is just a massive Stanley Cup with a lot of shit on the side. It's very concerning like who needs watermelon in space that's all I'm saying but eh.
Humorous Comparisons and Preparing for Mass Effect 2
00:01:50
Speaker
It's more intimidating than a Reaper. Well yeah that is true, just a landfill of them. This is your future guys. But of course today we are back with another Mass Effect Month episode and yeah today we are going to be talking about the widely acclaimed, the absolutely brilliantly fantastic, it's alright Mass Effect 2. So before we jump into it and start praising the hell out of this game as well as maybe nitpicking a few things out, I've got a question for you Mary. What was your experience with the sequel in particular and in general the franchise as a whole? Was this the first game you came across or did you start from the very beginning? I technically did start from the very beginning but I was playing the game on a very very dodgy laptop at the time and it had a terrible lag. And I think I got through half of the game despite the lag. And I got to Novaria. And the moment where you have to run away from the Rachni, where you plant the bomb and you just have to run. That's when the lag got so bad that I think I still get now flashbacks every time I go back to Noveria. I think I've did that scene. I don't know. I've lost count of how many times? Like a hundred times trying to run away from the Rachni. And one time I almost made it to the elevator and then got chopped in half and I was like, okay, I'm done. I'm done. I can't do this anymore. And then that put me off the franchise for a while. And then once I got a better laptop, I was just like, okay, I'll just start with two. Wrap it up, guys. We're going home.
00:03:21
Speaker
Yeah, I can sympathise with that. Novaria is... Would you say that's the playthrough killer? If you're starting off Mass Effect, would you say that's the point where you kind of just stop and you think, okay, am I either gonna love it after this point or am I absolutely gonna
Gameplay Choices and Their Impact in Mass Effect
00:03:37
Speaker
hate this game? It depends. I mean, it it depends if you go to Noveria first because it depends how you play it because I always go get Liara, go to Ferris and go to Noveria. Although during my first playthrough, I only got Liara and then I went to Noveria. And for me, I wasn't put off the game. It's just I couldn't physically actually play the game on my shitty laptop. So I don't know. I mean, I get very confused when people say they're not into Mass Effect because I am not a gamer and I love this franchise so much and I think it's so good. Maybe that's why I love it because I don't have that much of a margin to compare it to but I think it's actually after because those are like the first three core missions but then you have to do quite a lot of shit before you can go to Vermeijer and then it gets awfully repetitive in one. All the side quests are very similar. It's get in Mako, drive around in Mako, shoot some things, get back into Mako, shoot some more things, drive around, return to the Normandy, find a new planet, drive in Mako, shoot some things. Like, it's just all the same, all the side quests, I think. You've got the recruitment stage at the Citadel where you get Garros and Tali, and then Faros and Iveira, and then we've got Vermeyr and Eilos. You cannot skip those scenes, those are the major parts, but everything in between, I think, in one is a bit boring.
00:04:49
Speaker
I have to say, thinking back to my own experiences with the game, I actually, I was speaking about this last week with Luke. I technically did start from the first game and I actually got it as a double, I don't even know what you call it, like a double pack. It was like sold with Crackdown for the Xbox. It's so weird, that game, of all things, to package it with. That was a game that they put it with. And I remember playing it at the time. I thought, yeah It's alright, but I totally agree with you. It felt very slow paced at times. And don't get me wrong, I love the first one, but I feel as if it didn't really do anything for me in terms of the action set pieces. You know, as you said, repetitively drove around in the Mako, you went to different planets to do very similar objectives and very similar corridors and they use the same assets. So it was a bit of a disappointment when you started to realise the repetition, but as a first entry entry I thought it was great. But after I played the first one, I put it down, I said, what a great game! and I never touched it again. And I do remember seeing the adverts for the second one everywhere. You know,
Marketing and Controversies of Mass Effect 2
00:06:05
Speaker
I would see Commander Shepard's face all over the place. I would see Miranda and Thane, who we both get onto later, trust me, plastered beside him. And I thought, who are those characters? That's weird. I don't reckon I And yeah, it definitely looked as if it was trying to market itself more as an action-oriented game. Did you get that feeling with the advertising for this game at the time? Definitely. I have to say I only came to the franchise once all three games were out. So I never had the hype of playing one then waiting for two. I played all of them once I had a proper functioning laptop. I played all of them through, like I always had that option. But I went back and watched the trailers and also reviews because i amm someone would not surprise you. I do not buy anything without watching a billion reviews first and seeing if this is something that I'm interested in. And yeah, I do think the marketing was more action heavy and the poster itself looks like an action movie for Mass Effect 2. Yeah, see in hindsight though, it does seem like a really strange choice of characters to put in the cover. I just mean more in terms of the fact that they've got Miranda and Thane who, don't get me wrong, they are really interesting characters once you get into the game and everything, but it seems strange that they're not capitalising on the familiarity of the first one. You know, because Goddess is in it, Tali's in it, our space partners are in this.
00:07:31
Speaker
So why not go for something like that? Even Liara's technically on it, but I didn't go for that. It's just, it seems kind of strange. It's not a deal breaker. I mean, I think now I'm going into my marketing brain. I think it does make sense because Zane looks interesting. Zane looks like an interesting character. And then Miranda, I mean, Miranda was modeled. by her voice actress. She looks identical to Yvonne. I cannot pronounce her last name. I'm not gonna even try. But they look identical. I mean, that was the whole point. She was not just the voice. They also drew the character after hers. And she's very recognizable. So maybe that's why they had her on there. Maybe also, you know, she's a very attractive woman. That's why they thought that might work best. Yeah, I'm glad you say that, Nomi.
00:08:15
Speaker
but Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing. I will get on to that later on in the episode, but there's a lot of choices in this game when it comes to that particular thing. Sometimes all alright, sometimes you think, did we need that shot? Did we need that angle? Yeah, I mean do you know the legendary controversy? Was this the, it was something to do with the angle of the camera? Exactly, yes. Did they remove it in the legendary edition or did they add it? All the basement dwellers are saying they removed it. That's what I've heard. I never noticed it because I played both. I originally played the normal one and now in preparation for Mass Effect Month, I've been playing Legendary. So, but this is something that I don't pay attention to. So I don't go like, oh my God, they removed the ass shot. How dare you? They can't keep getting away with it.
00:09:04
Speaker
I mean, for a transparency sake, I also played the legendary edition. It's a good adaptation from what I've been told that it fixes some things, maybe doesn't fix other certain glitches. I was flicking through it today and I talked to a character and then the whole screen went black. I don't know why there's other times when I've gone out the elevator and it's thrown me into space. Why that happened? but That has never happened to me before. I don't know how would you managed that. Generally, I don't know if it was two or three, but I literally went out of the elevator and it was like something out of, you know, a slapstick column. It's like, oh, this is my floor. And then I just drift off into space and die. And I was like, I was on the Normandy. What the hell, guys? Come on. Maybe they thought you were an imposter. You got vented. Well, either that or the basement dwellers got to me.
00:10:00
Speaker
talk about the Asher. No, and for real reasons that's a joke, but yeah i after to met I have I have only played two and three with the Legendary a Edition, so I'm gonna be honest. A, I wouldn't have noticed, but B, even if I had played the second one first, I'm gonna be honest, I wouldn't have memorised that, and I feel as if the fact it's a controversy is very worrying, but you will get into that. But you know what, see without any further ado, well we just grab this IFF and yeah, go through the relay. and i don't I don't know what to say. I'm not great with improv. What makes you think I am?
00:10:38
Speaker
And yeah, we will be right back after these transmissions. Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime in general interest. Previously on Chatsunami, we've analysed what makes a good horror game, conducted a retrospective on Pierce Brosnan's runs James Bond, and listened to us take deep dives into both the Sonic and Halo franchises. Also, if you're an anime fan, then don't forget to check us out on our sub-series, Chatsunani, where we dive into the world of anime. So far, we've reviewed things like Death Note, Princess Mononoke, and the hit Beyblade series. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, and all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
Exploring Mass Effect’s Storytelling and Character Depth
00:11:25
Speaker
Hello, we are Two Girls, One Reusable Cup, a podcast all about living a low waste lifestyle in your twenties, hosted by Beth and Marie. We are just your average consumer trying to make the best decisions for people and planet. And we mess up a lot. And the next morning had a massive hangover and I was like, where's my reusable straw? No, my prized possession. You know, Too Faced is like one of the jumping off points of this podcast and it also was one of the jumping off points of my very large dentist bill. And they put it in just a standard plastic cup with a plastic lid. But don't worry folks, they put a paper straw in it, which I think I slurped twice and then it disintegrated.
00:12:07
Speaker
Wait, you've never learned how to ride a bike? So kudos to my dad, he tried to teach me and I was just a pain. I love how unforgiving you are of the fact that this was 1800 meters above sea level, but where was my teach? Grab a cup of tea, sit down with us and come and join the Sustainable Support Group. do do do do do did it it but So, let's talk about the story of Mass Effect 2. I have to say, and this is probably the scientific term, but would you say the story's a lot chunkier than the first one? Oh, definitely. I think it's more put together as well. Yeah, just because they made the side quests part of the actual story and part of the actual gameplay. And then what's revealed throughout the game, I feel it's still like one of my favorite twists ever, even though I'm pretty sure I was already spoiled on that before I played the games.
00:13:04
Speaker
But, I mean, it does start off with a bang in the first place. I mean, the intro to one is very cinematic. You know, you're about to like embark on a space adventure, but I mean, two just pulls the rug right out of you within the first 10 minutes. It's almost like, you know, the film oldie ever, it's like if they place that in reverse. so So, you know, they get rid of the dog, right? And then they bring it back to life. Like, I'm not saying oldie Ella's part of Cerberus, but anyway. OK, I was wondering where you were going with this, but OK. I apologise for that very visceral image.
00:13:45
Speaker
ah Yeah, it is a weird way to actually start off this game. You are completely right. You know, you start off the first one that's very noble and, oh, you're going into uncharted territory and everything. And then the second one that's basically a guy with a gun saying, hey, kids, you want to see a magic trick? And then, bam, Shepard's dead. You know, it's such a bizarre way to start the game, but it grabs your attention. And I love it so much. um I love the beginning of 2 so much and I wish I wasn't spoiled on that because I knew it was gonna happen but thinking back imagine playing it for the first time and thinking oh shit did I do something wrong like you're expecting to see the critical mission failure thing and then yeah the Lazarus project starts up and you're like oh what's this oh thank god
00:14:35
Speaker
No, absolutely. And I have to say, I knew what was going to happen as well, because I have seen people talk about the game and say, oh, the first five minutes Shepherds did, but I never really expected to feel so emotional about it. as I've said previously, I played all three of these games back to back at the start of the year, so I was fresh off of the first game. I think I completed the first game in maybe a couple of days and I still did all the side quests and everything and I thought right okay, we're gonna start with the second one, we're gonna go on completely wheels up on the Mako as it were and then all of a sudden It's just, it is heartbreaking to see the ship that you've travelled in just completely ripped apart. The worst bit for me, I have to say, that really got me emotional was seeing when you're going up the stairs and you're seeing all your crew members trying to run and escape, and you open the doors to the navigation room and you just look up and there's just the ominous, really eerie silence. You look up and there's a gaping hole in the ship and all. It is just it's horrific to watch because it almost feels as if the Normandy at this point is that extra character with you. It does and also the sound design in that moment is so good and adds to it and the eeriness. Yeah I remember and I replayed it last month I think I started to and I've played to now quite a lot of times because it's my favorite one of the trilogy. But even replaying it again, again, although it's been ah some time, it's still like kind of struck me with games like these, you get what you put into it. So there's a lot of head cannons that people have, but it's just like that thought.
00:16:16
Speaker
you wake up after two years and you've lost everything, your crew, your ship, and then on top of that, nothing has been done against that big threat that you've warned everyone about and everyone's forgotten about. They're like, yeah, Reaper, she made it up. And it's just, it's like, it also gets you so angry at the same time. Oh, it is so frustrating, especially when you go back to the Citadel, which we will get onto. Don't you worry, we will get onto, but you get back to the Citadel when they're all like, Yeah, Reaper, you know what I'm doing? 50,000 years, Reaper. And you're like, my God, you better have emptied the dishwasher at least. I'm like, dishes, you know, two years. ah you like Honestly, I wouldn't trust the council to run a bath, let alone run the universe. Why the fuck did I save you in the first place? It's... yeah
00:17:09
Speaker
You really regret that decision the more the games play out. Yeah, you really sit there and go, that Renegade option's looking mighty tasty today.
00:17:20
Speaker
yeah But throughout the story, after you get by that horrificly graphic opening, you end up, as you were saying there, getting revived by the Lazarus Project. Love the name. I know it's cheesy, but I love it. And you end up teaming up with the very sinister organisation Cerberus who are very much a human centric organisation, they're very much human first, look after our own interest as opposed to the others. I have to say I do like the way that they flesh them out in the story because in the first one I have to admit I did to the side missions about Cerberus and that actually really stuck in my throat because I did that side mission where, you know, you get the message from the Admiral and he's like, oh, you gotta save me. Cerberus has got me. And you find him completely dead and everything and oh, it's horrible. So you hate Cerberus and you go into the game thinking, you're a bunch of bastards. You really are the most despicable bunch in the whole galaxy. When you start to talk to people, you get to know why they join Cerberus and the fact that the, whether it's the Alliance or the Council's failure in leadership, you really get a sense of why people are turning to someone as extremist Cerberus and it's really well done, I would say, in terms of the story. Yeah, and you get introduced to two of the main characters from Cerberus, the elusive man and Miranda. And I mean, they're the first shot you see before the Normandy goes boom, but that exact sound and it's just like with the elusive man, you're like, Oh, I don't trust you. And also like when I first woke up the very first time I played this game, which was the downfall, my later on downfall, because I woke up thinking if I was in this situation, I would be pissed. So even though I played Paragon, I kind of was like choosing all the Renegade options because I'm like, what the fuck? I do not trust you. You conducted horrific experiments and now you want to help me. Obviously there's a very good reason why you have to pick a lane and stick to it. But then doing the Paragon options, you're like, oh, you're bad, but.
00:19:30
Speaker
I'm such a good hero so I'm just gonna hunker down and go about with my positive attitude and it's just it was frustrating I was just like oh this is one of my only gripes about Mass Effect where it's like there's no one who's a hundred percent paragon and there's no one who's a hundred percent renegade but you have to choose one but like at the beginning scenes of with Cerberus I chose the renegade option because I was just like no fuck you I mean that's a fair option to be fair
00:19:56
Speaker
compared to the first game, this game definitely challenged a lot of beliefs that I had in certain people in the first game, which I genuinely never thought was possible. You have the, and again we'll get on to more when we talk about the characters, but you have the Salarians who are more the lizard people, and they are the ones that conducted the genophage, which was a sterilisation programme for another race of aliens called the Krogan, and you know, there's a whole morally grey area there. And I genuinely went into this game thinking, right, I don't like the Salarians because they're very sneaky. I don't like the Turians because they are quite, well, well, well, well, there's an exception. Let me get to it. They are very aggressive and they look down in humanity. I never really liked the, well, not not liked, but the asari always weird me out. I've genuinely got a thing about this but I will get one too, trust me. But when I started playing this game and I saw the characterisation of everyone, I was
00:20:59
Speaker
thoroughly shook. I'm going to be honest, I was completely transformed into how I approached the story and everything. I thought it was done absolutely marvelously. And pretty much throughout the whole story, your goal is to prepare for a Reaper invasion and to try and prevent that as you go along. And of course, you end up collecting a ragtag group of heroes, which I was really surprised that there's 12 characters that you can collect about like Pokemon, but that's another thing. Yeah, no, the cast here is stacked. And it's just I finished two now two weeks ago, and I've moved on to three. And I'm like, Oh, it's not the same. I know nothing's gonna change. But every time you like run into those characters in three, I'm like banging them, please come back to Normandy, please come back to the Normandy, which I first i had that reaction in two where You wake up after two years and nearly like all the recurring characters are gone. You're working with this organization that you had a pretty bad run in with in one. And then the only two characters at first that you meet from the game is Joker and Dr. Chalkwas. And then that's it. And you're like, oh, where's my team? Where's the rest of it? I need Tally. I need Garris. Res Rex. I really missed Rex for the first few hours into the game. I was just like, I need my Krogan. Where is he? have to say the fact that he isn't a companion in this game was criminal. That's all I'm going to say. Goran yes was a good replacement, but he's no Rex. That's all I'm going to say. I love him, but he's no Rex. He's no Rex. And in fact, actually when I played two for the first time, because I couldn't complete one and I was like, instead of going through one again, I'll just start at two. Then I had to do basically start off the default settings. And on the default settings of two, it's actually that Rex died on Vermeijer. Yeah, that is weird, doesn't it? Yeah, you failed to save Rex on Vermeijer, so you don't get Rex, you get Reeve. So I wasn't as attached to Rex until I played all of them through one more time when I like went back and played one again. And I was just like, Oh, this character is so good. And now even I'm playing three and I'm like, Oh, I'm getting ahead of myself because I'm talking about three, but Rex is so good at three. I love him so much. Oh yes, so damn good. I have to say, all of the characters are really good in this. Before we go into the characters, should we continue with the story? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what you were about to say. But before we go into the characters, I've got to ask you something about the story because I'm quite curious to hear what you think about the tonal shift. Did you find overall all that it was quite jarring or did you think it was a natural progression? I think it was quite story wise, quite a natural progression. As I said, head cannon wise, I wish that the Paragon and Renegade decisions didn't carry on that much weight because there were a few times where I really wanted to tell people to go screw themselves. And I did in when I first played two, I think in two, I basically told the council to fuck off and they didn't reinstate my Spectre status. So I played my first run through with two without being a Spectre again. because I was just I was so pissed because you wake up you get the beautiful new Normandy and then you head to the Citadel and you realize they've done fuck all and I was just like really annoyed and that's I think more down to the gameplay but story wise it's my favorite I think it's so good the plot twists the loyalty missions that you've got at the loyalty missions in the form of the side quests but they do play into the story and into the relationship with these characters and that's I think what Mass Effect
00:24:34
Speaker
is it's not just a game, it's a story, it's the characters. If you don't like games that have long cutscenes or make you talk to the characters, if you're the type of person who skips cutscenes, Mass Effect isn't for you. But no, out of all three games, yeah, two is my favorite. And I think it's because of the story. now I have to agree with you there. are I feel as if for the Re there are a lot of really standout moments and I feel as if I enjoyed it a lot more than I was really expecting to, but at the same time if I had to judge between 1, 2 and 3, I would definitely put 2 above both 1 and 3. And the reason for that is, and this is gonna sound like such a narrative comparison here so I apologise in advance, but you know the show Deep Space Nine, the star Star Trek one. I've never seen Deep Space Nine. Well, first of all, I would recommend it. I'm a modern Star Trek fan. I've seen modern iterations of the story, but yeah, I don't go back. I haven't seen the older stuff because I have to say, you're a little bit judging me right now. No, no, no, not at all. I was going to say, don't worry, Sean, from review yourself isn't here. You're fine.
00:25:44
Speaker
I was thinking about him. I think his ears are burning right now. He's like, Star Trek and the Chatsunami episode? Why aren't I here? So when Star Trek began, you know, you've got the original series that was Kirk and Spock and things. It was very calm. It was over the top. It was like, oh, we're going to explore new frontiers. And then that was reinforced by TNG, g which did a It's a little bit better I would say personally but please don't shank me Trekkies. I've still got another episode of Mass Effect month to do but then after there was two shows that came after it. There was Voyager which was very much, well not the same but very much of a likeness for all were just this ship
00:26:29
Speaker
that's going to explore this unknown region. and Deep Space Nine is essentially set on the fringes of the Federation's territory. There's an absolutely amazing speech in, I think it's the very first episode, or one of the first few episodes where the Captain Benjamin Sisko, or sorry, Commander Benjamin Sisko, he gets yelled at by one of the admirals to say you have to appease this very militaristic society. He goes on this massive run and he says how the Federation keeps judging them for not adhering to their ideals and he says how, you know, oh it's easy to be a saint in paradise because on on Earth as you've probably seen in the new stuff, the Earth is like a paradise, there's no hunger, there's no war, they don't get really exposed to many hardships. Whereas in this particular area of space, they are constantly seeing the hardships, they're constantly having to battle between their ideals versus the harsh reality of space out there. And it very much reminds me, and this is why I'm looking back, don't worry, I have a point. sorry, but this is why it reminds me of Mass Effect because in the very first one you've got the Citadel, the big spaceship hub where it's just paradise for people. You know, it's completely, it's beautiful. It's this melting pot of different cultures, different aliens, and I know you've got the kind of dodgy areas but we won't talk about that But when you get to the second one, you actually get transported to this place called Omega, which is like this mining facility that's kind of like a metallic parasite. It's latched itself onto this meteor or asteroid, whatever you want to call it, and it's become just this hub of absolute degeneracy on the edge of terminus space, and and it's definitely a lot darker. In the first one, as we were saying, after you get past Eden Prime, you don't really have that same sense of, oh this is really weird and dark, because you get onto the Citadel right after it, you're like, oh look at this beautiful place, and characters kind of reinforce that, oh it's beautiful, but yeah, Omega's a dump isn't it? but Well, not just Omega, I mean, the entirety because you're exiled. That's the another thing you're exiled to a whole different area of space that you are in. One, because you are exiled to determine a systems that is not part of Council space. Because the second area you spend a lot of time on is Illium. And even though Illium looks clean and shiny, And this is, I think, one thing that you only notice after a couple of playthroughs. You listen to all the back chatter of the characters and you're like realizing even Garris says at one point, if you have him in your party and I always do. Really?
00:29:22
Speaker
I know that's surprising, but he's like, don't let the shine of Illium fool you. It's just as bad as Omega. And he's like, whatever you do, do not sign a contract because you might sign yourself into slavery. So yeah, it is a very different vibe because you're on this different area of space. And you're also fighting a very different villain because whereas in one, it was predominantly the Geth, who were I mean they're creepy but they're giant robots with a torch on their head and they're also shiny and clean whereas in this one the predominant villain is the collectors and design of the collectors is also off-putting they're like menacing and the collector ship is just this big giant hunk of rock it also adds to that and then on then in addition the other villains that you're fighting are the mercenary groups which is mainly batarians and the vortra and the vortra are just horrendous things their teeth are just
00:30:15
Speaker
Yeah, they don't have a dental plan or anything, no. No, and also where the way they speak and they're like practically snarl at you and it's just, yeah. And then like you do get to go back to the Citadel in this game, but you're just relegated to one ward on the Citadel, so you also see a different part of the Citadel. Yeah, I said this to you when I was playing through it, but I would say this is my least favourite iteration of the Citadel. Oh, definitely. and I think that's because you're restricted. And I think it makes sense because Headcanon, you're working with Cerberus. Part of me is thinking even though she's a Spectre, the council is kind of restricting. Sorry, Shepard is a woman, also Headcanon. I'm gonna refer to her as she throughout this episode. Even though you are a Spectre in my Headcanon, the council's like, yeah, you don't get free reign of the Citadel while you're here because we don't trust you. I feel as if it also links back to that idea of this being very much a darker story, even somewhere as beautiful as the Citadel, where again, it was vibrant, it was open, and the only time you really see that is when you visit Anderson or Udina. Personally, I put Anderson in charge because screw Udina. But I went to see Anderson, and you get to see a wee bit out, and you know you get to see the very famous promenade bit and the Presidium, and it's really beautiful looking. But it's an interesting choice that they only limit you to this particular area. I know there's probably, as you said, the headcanon that maybe you could have seen more, or maybe it was restricted, but and in the game itself it does serve to show how restrictive it all feels and how much things have changed, you're no longer this bright-eyed space tourist as aware you are just this almost constantly watched. But also proper canon. The Citadel is still recovering from the Geth attack. And obviously the first place they fixed was the Presidium because that's all where the rich and famous politicians are. And then the Wards are the ones who don't get that much attention. But But also you may argue that in one, you got too much of the Citadel. The Citadel in one drives me up the fucking wall. I hated so much. Even though I've played it now a bunch of times, I still get lost on that map. And I think I tried to find when I was playing one seasick for like a good 20 minutes. I was just like, where the fuck? Fuck, do I go down this stair and turn this way? No, but I thought I went up the stairs. And yeah, I think the Citadel in one is far too big and they should limit your movement. And I think that's what two does really well in terms of gameplay, which is on our list. We will get to that, but it makes it more streamlined. But yeah, it is interesting that we're just relegated to Zecara wards on the Citadel. Yeah, what I will say is, although aesthetically I don't like the Citadel as much, I felt as if it was easier to traverse. Definitely, that way I'm 100% with you there. Even in 3, it was a lot more open, I would say, potentially. Aesthetically, aesthetically, between 1 and 3 I would say, but in terms of gameplay, I would probably stick to 2 or 3, but yeah no I'm with you. The first one I ended up getting lost in my second playthrough and ended up bonking a sari consort I think.
00:33:30
Speaker
I got lost, okay? I was scared and she took me into the bubble, okay? I was just like, huh. Because I remember playing three and coming across that same consort and she's like, oh, hello, Commander Shepherd. And you're like, all right, all right, okay, fair do's. And I thought, why can't I talk to her more? You know, there must be something I'm missing. And then it wasn't until I went back that I realised that you could actually do a side mission with her. So I was like, oh, God dammit, I missed out on a side mission. So fun times. a lot of times in the Citadel. But see before we go on and we're gonna now probably dive into really heavy spoilers here. Before we dive into the finale of this game, because I feel as if it ties everything together in a neat bowl, let's discuss the characters because I know you've been itching to talk about your space husband, Garris. I have been itching to talk about my space wife, Tali. Where do we begin with this?
00:34:25
Speaker
because the characters I feel personally are a mile ahead of what they were in one. I completely agree. And as you said before, we get so many characters, but we get so many good characters, except for Zaid. Zaid can go fall off a cliff or something. She's unnecessary. Yeah. But other than that, the characters are so good. And not just the characters, the backstory behind the characters and getting to know the characters is a very important part of the game. And their loyalty missions is also and a very important part of the game. And I think this is why I like this game way more than one and two. It's just because these side quests actually matter because it does feed into the overall story and the overall gameplay. If you don't do the side quests, you are fucked at the end. But yes, obviously I have one all time, all time, all time, all time favorite character. Maybe most of your listeners do not follow me on Twitter. So they may not know this. I'm very subtle with my love and adoration for him. And it was just so, so nice seeing you play these games in real time, keeping us updated of where you were. And you're like, Oh, I'm about to do this mission. I'm like,
00:35:34
Speaker
He's about to meet Morden! And you're like, okay, I just got the IFF and it's just like, Legion is coming. Legion is coming! Because, yeah, I love all of them. So let's just start with the best one. Should we start with Garros? Yeah, why not? Yeah, I have to say I felt like a bit of an idiot because when I, as you said, when you first play it, you get told by the elusive man who is the head of Cerberus and he's got a sick-ass PC set up. He's got like the big background where he's in front of the dwarf star and everything, calls you up at night, hey baby, what you doing? It's like I'm trying to stop the reapers. Okay, okay, I'll phone you back. You know, absolutely love it. It's so extra and over
Character Significance: Garrus and Loyalty Missions
00:36:15
Speaker
the top. It is my kind of thing, but
00:36:17
Speaker
ah ah In fact, you can't see it because this is all the only, but that's my background right now, just the star in the background clearly. Just lounging in your chair with a cigarette. Yeah, just like, oh, good. Just, you know, those candy cigarettes or the candy sticks? The kids pretend they're cigarettes. That's me you right now. I'm like, oh, we're going to defeat the podcast promoters. Come on. Yeah, I felt like an idiot because you're told, oh, you got to collect all these different team members. And I remember seeing Tali, she's one of the first to reoccurring. one. Yeah, yeah the first the first proper mission you meet, you see Tally and you're just like, I don't trust Cerberus, please come with me. And then she rejects you. Well, no, she doesn't reject. I say out of denial. yeah but No, I mean, she says she'll come back, but she needs to sort out her emails or something. That old the excuse, yeah.
00:37:07
Speaker
She wasn't too happy with being the first playthrough because in my first playthrough of 2, I kept The Scientist. I did not give it to her. Even though I was playing Paragon, I made quite a lot of renegade choices because I thought they made sense at the time. Detriment to me. Did not completely bit me in the ass down the line. But yeah, I mean, yeah, so Tali's the first one you meet and then it's so nice to see someone. Well, it's like seeing an old friend. I mean, well, technically you see Joker first. And I mean, there's so many characters we should relegate it to the main squad, but Joker is such a good character. I love him so much. Honestly, I fanboy'd so much. See when, and I know I should have seen it coming, but see when the ill-wisted man's like, oh I've got a piloted you, love! And Joker came through and I was like, it's my boy! It's Joker!
00:37:51
Speaker
And then see them be, oh my god, the music in this game, when the Normandy was revealed to the Normandy reborn, I was tearing up. I'm not gonna lie. I was like, it's so beautiful, god damn it. It's so beautiful. Oh, it's such a good scene. That's like all the music. There's one thing you can do to win me over to whatever you're doing is great music and great sound design. If you've got that, I will guarantee I will love it because it's so important to me. But yeah, that moment is so great. It was absolutely brilliant. And I have to say, going back to Tally for a second, when you were saying how you didn't give the thing over, personally for me, I am a massive Tally stan. Generally, I was just like, you know what, if you want it, you can have it. And you know, Jacob's like, I get when Jacob deserves it. I'm like, shut your face, Jacob. Shut your face. My waifu and I are talking. Okay, you sit in the corner and get out my face. I'll get to Jacob, don't you worry. But yeah, he went from, oh, this is a cool character. I don't know why people hate him too. My God, I really dislike him. But again, we'll get on to him. Yeah, as I was saying before, I felt really dumb because when they said you had to get Archangel, I was really bummed out because I was like, oh great, it's going to be another Turian because I knew that they were replacing Rex and everything, and they were replacing a lot of the other characters, and it never once clicked that it was Goddess. So as soon as the helmet came off, I was like, that's my boy!
00:39:26
Speaker
Oh, I screamed. I was so happy. I don't think I clocked it the first time as well. But the second time, because obviously you pick up multiple playthroughs and you know, the more you talk to people, the more advantages you get. I always find it very funny. They're in the middle of a firefight and Shepard is just like hacking a safe or something like that. Or like, Oh, I'm just gonna go and talk to this random person. It's a bit strange. But then during the second game where you play it, the clues are there. They're like, Oh, it's a Turi. And that showed up two years ago. No one knows its identity. And it's so the clues are there. And you're like, Oh, Oh my god, it's Garris, but also, and this is my headcanon thing, but I think this transcends headcanon because for me femshep is the definitive shepherd and I messaged you about this already in tears where I was just like the thought of the fact that she dies and then Garris just goes underground and adopts a new identity because he can bear the thought because he was like gonna be a Spectre. When we see him in one, he's like, oh, you inspired me to be a Spectre. I want to do good in the world. And then she dies and he just crumbles and disappears and goes to the worst place there is in the galaxy to practically mourn her.
00:40:34
Speaker
He misses her. That is actual canon in my head. But on top of that, Garris is such a good character. He's so cool. He gets so many good lines. He's just just so smooth and yeah, the love of my life. But characterization wise as well, great. And I obviously, I always romance Garris. It feels so wrong not to romance anyone else. And it's just that story and how those two characters work together is also in my opinion done. so well. I mean, of course, we're gonna start a fight here because everyone has their favorite ship and their favorite love story. Garris, I mean, it's not just attraction, like he respects the hell out of her. And that's one of the most important and things in a relationship. And it's just it's like one of the things they say when I have to say none of the love stories, the ah topic of boinking is brought up subtly, it's always a bit out of the blue, where you're just having a normal conversation. And then Shepard goes, well, if you will just want to pop over to mine, and yeah, do the beast with two backs and it's not subtle at Garros either where she generally goes well if you just want to relieve some stress but then he's just like oh well not because I respect the hell out of you like yes but I mean you didn't boink Garros so I think you have a different perspective to me well yeah I played through as Mailship so yeah definitely no Garros bonking for me because it's not programmed in the game it should be everyone deserves the love of Garros It's a mod, OK? It's a mod. Honestly, the way I saw it, obviously, as Mailship was just that he was an absolute bro to the end. He was genuinely just your ride or die. That if Rex wasn't there, then it would always be Goddess, because that's the thing I struggled with in the very first game, because I really love Tali's character, as I've said, and I will counter that. Goddess is just such a
00:42:25
Speaker
fascinating character to me because he is a character who is on the knife edge. And I feel as if this particular theme, I'm going to get a wee bit philosophical here, but I feel as if the theme of Rebirth is very prominent throughout this game. And initially you might be thinking, well, that's obvious, you know, Lazarus experiment. I was about to say, yeah, it's called Lazarus Project. Sheppard, or sorry, Lazarus Project, boy it's my favourite, and Sheppard literally coming back from the dead. But at the same time, all of the characters go through a transformation, and they go through this evolution which I find absolutely
00:43:03
Speaker
amazing. Going on to Garris for a second, the fact that he goes from this, very much as you said, this vigilante and he's lost and everything, and then he finds purpose in Shepard or FemShep's arms and he understands, and you can influence him, you can either influence him to be a renegade or a paragon. And I obviously am a good boy, so I chose a paragon. But the thing was, it didn't feel unnatural for him. You know, he very much looked at you and went, alright, I don't necessarily agree with this, but at the same time, leave it with me for some time and I'll have a think about it. I'm all over. Absolutely love that about him. Same with Talley as well. I felt as if in the first game, Talley was a bit of a walking codex.
00:43:52
Speaker
entry. You know, she was very much like, oh, the Geth, blah blah blah, the Geth, the Geth, the Geth. And there was no way to really agree with her or ironically enough, you couldn't romance her or Garris in the first game. Your options were really limited as opposed to the utter her harem that you get in this game. But with Tally, you see that as well. You see this young Quarian who grows up a bit and matures through a pilgrimage and just absolutely sees the galaxy for what it is and everything. And she's been put in some really hard situations that she has to defend her people. Her loyalty mission in particular not just because she yells Bosch debt to the council members, but just the fact that you have to defend her. And honestly, I went absolutely ham on that mission, because as I said, I romance Talley. So I was like, oh, you are not dissing my space waifu here. You're talking the gun going, you are not getting away with that. And when they called her Vass Normandy, oh, my heart, my utter heart just skipped a beat. I was like, oh my God, that is so beautiful. was like the fact that ships are Taquarians because they don't have a home planet, they are their home and oh my god the fact that she found a home within your ship and everything, oh it was just absolutely beautiful. But then of course going on to the other characters and I'm gonna target the more prominent ones. I mean you've got Legion who's a Geth that was bad turned good, I'm sorry, I'm not letting you skip over Legion. Yeah, no, no, go for it. I love Legion. Well, no, he is good. He's good. But I feel as if because he's introduced at the end, he's just a fanboy of Shepard, which I don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with. I mean, but I do find it fascinating. I mean, going back a bit to the Quarians, I find the Quarian story very fascinating in general, how they basically created this artificial intelligence who rebelled against them and then got them kicked off of their own home planet. And because of their physiology nearly all atmospheres are harmful to them so they have to spend their entire time in this suit which is a fascinating concept and also just something like parallels to our world where like don't mess with stuff with shit you don't understand and then throughout Mass Effect 1 you're told mainly by Tali they're the main antagonists that the Gef are bad they're just like evil robots and then you meet Legion and the way you meet Legion is just
00:46:17
Speaker
So cool because you meet Legion on a Reaper ship, like you first see the sniper take out some husks. And this is of course why I also really want a Mass Effect series because I just imagine that moment where you see the sniper take out two husks and everyone turning to Garros and he's like, no. That's not me guys. I'm not that good. I can't shoot from that angle. Little head cannon. But I think maybe because you don't connect with Legion that much is that you were successful. Your first time round after you got the IFF, you went straight into the collector base. I was not. On my first and second run through, I got some really bad Mass Effect advice when I started playing Mass Effect until I replayed it a couple of months ago. This is the first time I went straight after it. Before that, I always let Kelly be liquidated because I couldn't get my squad to be loyal. So you get, obviously, because you always, I think it's like three dialogue options you always get with each character where it's like, you do a mission, you talk to them, you do a mission, you talk to them, you do a mission, you talk to them. And after that, they're like, oh, fuck off, leave me alone. so Yeah, I think he is a fanboy, but the fact is that he's not like an evil robot and learning about the consciousness about the Geth and how they're symbiotic, but not symbiotic in a way and have like a same brain, but not have the same brain at the same way. And then just little bits of characterization, like maybe because I'm a fashion designer, I found this part fascinating, but the fact that he wears a bit of N7 armor and it's revealed to be Shepherds.
00:47:43
Speaker
And then you ask him, it's just like, but I understand there was a hole that needed to be patched up, but why did you use my armor? And he like doesn't have an answer to that. And I find that so fascinating because he as an individual thought Shepard was cool, but the Jeff aren't individuals. I love Legion. And then you get more Legion in three and it's just always leads to me to tears, but I generally love Legion. Okay. You can move on. I just couldn't let you like skip over my, one of my favorite characters of the game. No, you do have a point, because going back to what I was saying before, where the Geth are very much characterised as the villains and everything, you're like, oh great, we're gonna have to fight them again. and You have very much a single track mind of these are the villains, we're gonna just shoot right through them, and then you meet Legion, and that changes the way you think about them. that They're not just this hive mind of killer robots, as it were. you know They are very sentient. They do have thoughts. I would honestly love to see the browser history for Aquarian before the uprising in the modern wars, where it's like, my Roomba just asked me if it had a soul. What do I do?
00:48:53
Speaker
but as my Rumba life. Yeah, but it's also Legion's loyalty mission. You you get posed with such a very interesting question and I like because obviously with the positioning of them, you know which option is Paragon and which option is Renegade. But you're given the option to either rewrite code, which one of your companions who are you're with points out, well, that's technically mind control and you're erasing someone's personality or completely destroy them. And it's just like such an interesting choice. And even the Paragon option is to rewrite them. But it's just like, is that the Paragon option? Yeah. You're rewriting something, you're taking away something's identity, even though it's a machine. This is why I love this game, because it's surface like it's a very fun game. But if you're nerdy, like you and I, we can dive into the philosophy of this so deeply. Oh no, absolutely. There is a lot to chew on in this game. That being said, do you mind de if I group two characters together before we go on to the really meaty characters? that I mean, go ahead because I have a feeling this might turn into a three-hour episode if I have to you have to go through every single one of these characters. You know what? It could be a three-hour episode. It could be the longest episode of Chatsunami.
00:50:07
Speaker
That's a risk you take when inviting me on. SCOTT I, ironically enough, because it is the longest game, but anyway, art imitates art anyway. Yeah, I'm going to throw these guys to the side here, Zaid and Kasume. They are DLC characters that I have to admit, playing the Legendary Edition, they are included right away. And Kasume, I like a little bit more than Zaid because Zaid, the first time you see him, you go onto Omega and he's just beating on a Batarian, which is like this four eyed alien, and on the one hand I'm like Jesus Christ, but on the other hand I'm like, well you're beating up a Batarian, welcome aboard! like That wasn't the mercenary, I don't care, get them on board! but Other than that, Zaid really irritates me because I feel as if you can take hell that these characters are DLC characters. When you go up to other characters, you get the dialogue wheel, owe you get the emotional moments. Whereas with Zayed, she's literally beside the trash compactor. I don't know if that was supposed to be a joke at how bad it was or what. And Kisumi, she again, she doesn't have a dialogue wheel, but it she has more interesting kind of gossip and things to say. And I feel as if she's a lot funnier in the third game where her personality comes out a bit more. And I have to admit, I loved her loyalty mission where yes yeah you have this kind of infiltration spy-esque type mission with her. I really enjoyed that. Zaid's not so much. I feel as if he was just there shooting people. No, yeah, I completely agree. We're going full on spoilers here, but I was told that you had to leave the people in the burning building. You had to take the renegade option, otherwise Zaid won't be loyal. Turns out that's not the case, there is a Paragon option. Are those poor people?
00:51:55
Speaker
No wonder, yeah, I let them burn for like five plays and then I always had an issue with my Paragon status and I was just like, surely, no, surely it's not just only the Renegade option. I was given false information here and it turns out I was right. But yeah, Zaid, you're just running around shooting people or in if you choose to save them, running around saving people. And then Kazumi's is interesting and her loyalty mission has a bit of depth to it because her connection with her partner who passed and that's why she's trying to retrieve this artifact. That means a lot to her. Oh, that was Davis Satan. Yeah. Yeah, it does work. So I really wish there was a dialogue wheel with her just walking around the observatory, like clicking random things. I didn't even do this to let this play through because it's just so boring. I have a really problem with that style, which is, you know, one of the other reasons why I dislike three. I don't dislike three. Three is my least favorite game because talking to the characters is the best part and just awkwardly hovering around them drives me absolutely crazy. But yeah, as DLCs don't make sense, but yeah, they're kind of take them or leave them. Yeah, you're not missing too much. Even with 3 when they carry over, Kasumi is cool for that, but Zaid, he's just kind of there. Genuinely, see for every character that came back in 3, I was like, my guy! Oh, there she is, there he is, yo! And then I came to Zaid and I was like, ah shit.
00:53:17
Speaker
it's like, great. Gonna deal with this chuckle fuck again. It wasn't a pleasant experience. But speaking of unpleasant experiences, should we talk about Jacob? Because I'm gonna be honest, as I said before, when I first encountered him, and he is the very first character you come across, yeah I genuinely didn't see why people hated him initially.
Character Analysis: Jacob, Miranda, and Morden
00:53:38
Speaker
Genuinely, he seemed alright. He didn't seem that bad. This is me going in completely blind, by the way. But I genuinely genuinely had no issues with him. I was like, it seems like a cool guy, I don't know why. But then it was irritating me when I was going around the ship and he was very blunt with me all of a sudden, where he was like, oh, I don't like small talk, let me get back to this and that. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what did I do to you, Jacob? And then, of course, he's like, oh, I've got to find my dad because he's been washing people into a space harem. And I'm like, hey, that's my job. So, you know, we flew immediately there.
00:54:14
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, Jacob is kind of just meh, but I have to say playing it from femme Shepherd's point of view, interacting with Jacob is such a minefield because you can just accidentally romance him. And I don't know if the creators thought he would be the favorite romance option, which yeah Why the fuck would you take Jacob if you've got fucking Garros? I haven't actually seen how male Shep interacts with Jacob But even like the opening line because the opening line you talk to each character is always the same Before you go jump into the dialogue wheel. It's so flirty because Femi chef's like, I'm more interested just talking a bit. And I'm like, where is this towards Garris? I mean, it's immediately flirty, even though before you even choose Jacob as a romance option, and it just bugs me. And then nearly every dialogue option is romance, romance, romance, neutral stance. And you just have to ninja your way through the conversation. I was just like, I don't want any of you back. No, but in terms of Jacob's loyalty mission, that is another one that it's really dark if you think about it like what shit went down because gameplay wise, it's not that interesting. Like you explore the wreckage of a ship for like less than a minute and then you walk, you shoot something, you walk, you shoot something. But then if you read and listen to all the journal entries and then realize, oh, oh, this is twisted. This is really fucked up. I think that, yeah, the place where it's more being a darker story. But yeah, Jacob has one of the darkest stories ever and it kind of brushes away. He's like, yeah yeah, my dad was kind of a bad dude. I mean, you do have the option to shoot him and if you're paying Paragon, you save the dad. No, I agree with you. It's just, it's not a bad loyalty mission, but it's just kind of a shame that I had to be Jacob in that position because he's not a very great character. And I know I was joking earlier there about, oh, space harem ha, but you're completely right. It is such a dark and very twisted thing where he's basically manipulating their reins and things. yeah like speech, the cognitive abilities, it's absolutely horrifying. But again, it feels more like you know one of those Mass Effect 1 missions where it's just a completely random side mission and then you go on and you're like, Jesus Christ, this got dark fast. But then of course you've got Jacob who's like, oh, my dad sucks. And you're like, oh, fuck,
00:56:30
Speaker
Just give me something, give me anything, give me a smile. If I don't give me a smile, because I've seen the romance path on YouTube and it is the funniest and cringiest thing I've ever seen in my life. See, in all honesty, you do you if you love Jacob's character or whatever, if you want to romance him. But you cannot in good conscience turn round and tell me that a man who goes into your room and goes, it's dangerous, but the prize. You know, you cannot tell me That line is going to make you go weak at the knees and go, oh, take me, Jacob. No, no. I refuse to believe it. I was howling. I had tears in my eyes laughing. I thought, no way. No way they programmed this in for someone to go, but the prize. No. Oh, no. I mean, yeah, if there are any Jacob stands out there, I would be really curious. Please reach out or get help with whatever one comes with. We are concerned.
00:57:24
Speaker
and yeah We're concerned but then it's like also interested in the subtext of it because through Jacob also you learn a bit more about Miranda and the relationship that he's had with Miranda and that they at one point to did the Beast with two backs but a that stopped and Miranda is another interesting character that's literally the backstory of the character that she is designed to be the male gaze. yeah It's written into her story, so I don't think I can fault that, but she's designed to be this perfect woman. And the fact that she's modeled after the actress that plays her makes sense. I mean, she is the perfect woman. I know she doesn't swing that way, but and she's married, but you know, I'm available. Please listen to this episode.
00:58:07
Speaker
she is very attractive ah ah yeah i'm completely with you there well in terms of seeing the actresses are attractive of course i completely agree with you but the whole thing i about the male gaze can i touch on that for a second um go ahead here I have to say, and obviously this is coming from, ironically enough, a male perspective here, but I did notice that there's a lot more of it in this game and it only gets worse than three, but I have to admit, I did not expect to like Miranda's character because she's very standoffish and, you know, she threatens you with, or rather she said she was going to put a control chip in you and everything, but there was some fancy No, that kind of put me off, I'm not going to lie, but I have to admit at some point I was genuinely considering whether or not it would be worth to pursue the romance option with her because I found her character surprisingly endearing. And again, I'm not saying that because the character's very attractive. If anything, I was kind of put off by the fact she just walks around in a space catsuit thing.
00:59:15
Speaker
I thought, come on Cerberus, because they did that and then they made the female android in three. I'm like, come on, this is a bit, you know, it's not the first time they've done this, you know, the asari are practically the poster women of that. ah Yeah, I mean, I normally romance Caden in one, but because I played one quite a few times, I thought I would mix it up a bit and do the Liara romance option. And oh boy, did I regret it because it is so male-gazy. I mean, there is like blue behind in it. And I'm just like, I don't recall Caden's anything being shown here. And also, I think it's the longest out of all of them. Obviously, I don't have that much of a life that I haven't timed every single boink scene. but I feel like Liara's is the longest. To me, it went on forever. I felt very uncomfortable. Yeah, so the Asari get it and and I think Liara gets it in particular. I'm pretty sure her breasts are bigger in two. I was playing two and I was just like, they look bigger to me. Are they? I don't know, but I thought they were. But it kind of works with Miranda's character and I think it's also the arc. she goes through because she is dead set Cerberus at the start and she's like no Cerberus are doing the right thing I'm the elusive man's right hand man and then you kind of turn her to your side and she ends up walking away from Cerberus and the elusive man and again so fascinating oh this would be such a good series please make a Mass Effect TV show but
01:00:39
Speaker
changing her mind about Cerberus and going, oh, yeah, we're kind of fucked up, aren't we? But I have to say, I enjoyed Miranda a lot more through my second playthrough. I had her more as a squad mate because playing the game like head cannon wise, it wouldn't make sense. I wouldn't feel safe having Cerberus as squad mates. They could just shoot me in the back. But then I was like thinking, but if you show them thrust from the very beginning, then we're going into philosophy again. We're just like, oh, if I trust you from the very beginning, then you will turn to my side. It's a I'm rambling at this point, but I came around to Miranda by the time we reached the end. No, I'm completely with you there. Miranda definitely is one of those characters that as I said, I thought, I don't know at the beginning. And then I thought it was ironic because again, going to that theme of of rebirth, and such and the characters finding themselves and finding their identity. Because in all honesty, the fact that you've got a whole new paragon and renegade system in place, you're practically this tabula rasa that is finding out whether you're going to be a good man or woman or bad man or woman in this universe that is just completely unforgiving. And I find it ironic that Miranda, of all the characters, is touted as this perfect human, perfect woman, yet she perfectly encapsulates the flaws of humanity. in which she is very insecure with herself, she feels this burden to prove herself, she has a massive weakness when it comes to her family. So I think she's a better character than a lot of people probably make her out to be. Because as you said, if you look at it purely from her concept art, then you think, oh great, it's another stereotypical sci-fi woman character or they're going to objectify her. That aside, because they're
01:02:32
Speaker
are two more characters I want to touch on that do this as well because you've got Samara who I don't find her as interesting but her outfit is like space dominatrix. I don't like it. It is. I mean yeah once again over sexualizing the tentacle people. Yeah. But I'm kind of sad you don't get a romance option with Samara. Samara I mean is yeah everything I look for in a woman. ah
01:03:01
Speaker
Just powerful. I mean technically not women because Asari are agendered. So we can move on to Samara. I really like Samara. Samara is one of my favorite characters. I think her loyalty mission and her backstory is also really interesting. How there's this taboo in Asari culture of mating with your own because the idea is to diversify the genetic line. So like pure blood Asari are almost not ranked highly among the Asari. And then as a result of this, she gives birth to three Ardakiokushi, which are just demons. They are perfect killers who are designed to manipulate and just manipulate you in the worst way possible and then also murder you in the worst way possible. And the fact that her quest is to protect her children, but also to kill one of her children is also like fascinating. I have to say, I think that's probably why I don't like Asari because of Morinth. Oh my god, that freaked me the hell out when I looked it up on YouTube and it's like, what happens if in the loyalty mission you side with Morinth instead of Samara, and she does that eternity now, which I have to admit reminds me of that scene from Seinfeld where it's one of the characters' dads yelling in the backseat, so ready now! And that's what I think when I think of her yelling, eternity now! And then, you know, her eyes go black and you shudder and basically just get killed right in the spot. I find that freaky, I'm not gonna lie. I don't think, despite the fact that they're obviously meant to look beautiful and again appealing to the male gaze despite the fact that they're agender and everything. There was clearly behind the scenes a direction that they wanted the characters to be designed as, but going onto her actual character, I do find her… I mean, I find her interesting, but I feel as if she's one of the more tamer characters in comparison. Like, she has this internal struggle, and I think it's more just the fact that she's stoic. She's almost like a Jedi. Let's face it, without the sword she'd No, you're completely right. But I like the dialogue with her the most. I love talking to Samara the most because she is at 900 I think at this point where you meet her. So she's lived this full life and it's just fascinating. I find I'm saying fascinating a lot in this episode. I need to come up with a different advert. But the concept of different age ranges and different lifespans is something that I do think about a lot. I'm just like, how different would we be if we just had an extra 20, 50 years on our life? We still fuck up as much as we do. Oh, you know a bit. Going into my territory, I don't know. It's just one thing one of my lecturers once told me when we talked about the concept of sustainability. And she's like, you know what, I think if humans live beyond 100 years, they would actually see the consequences of what our decisions are making to the planet and regret it. That's always stuck with me because the biggest problem is that we make a decision now and never think of how much it's going to fuck us up down the line. We're going to have to move on before I do a rant about sustainability and the climate crisis here. For that, check out my podcast. Yeah, I was going to say next week we'll be talking about sustainability in the Mass Effect universe. Oh, I think I could make that work.
01:06:22
Speaker
Go for it. If you need a guest, you know where to find me. Don't give me more ideas. Speaking of sustainable scientists, do you see what I did there? We have another character which I have to say absolutely rocked the way that I saw certain characters and I didn't like him initially either, but then he started to grow on me and then he became one of my favourites of all time. That of course being Morden Solis, who is the very, I'm not even gonna sing it but the very model of a Salarian scientist, he is brilliant. If you're looking for a character that is morally grey or is very conflicted, this is the one that you would not in a million years expect because Lord Dump here lies in the Mass Effect universe
01:07:11
Speaker
the three main council species, the Turians, the Asarii and the Salarians, ended up employing the Krogans who are just like walking lizard tanks. They say like raising up kind of like in Star Trek when they do first contact. Yeah, exactly. The Krogan helped them with a little bug problem. Trust me, that definitely won't come up in the next episode. But then of course, the Krogan got a little bit greedy and they went to war and the Salarians ended up coming up with chemical weapon or rather a biological weapon that ended up sterilising a particular percentage of the population but was really high because Krogan apparently breed really fast. It was horrific especially when you go to their world of Tuchanka and it's just an absolute desolate wasteland. It's just been irradiated It is horrific you hear about the other female krogan talking about stillbirths and things. It is just such a horrifying thing to think of. Yeah it is and what makes Mordin so fascinating and what makes I think General Salarian fascinating is that goes to my previous point
01:08:21
Speaker
because I think the Salarian life cycle is like 40 years. It's not long. They're definitely the like shortest species on the council. And Morden did not create the genophage, but he ensured that the genophage would continue by manipulating the formula because the genophage was weakening. So he was put on a task force to refine it and bring it back to life so the Genefage would continue and it's so fascinating because throughout the entire conversation you have with him he maintains that he did nothing wrong and it was a necessary thing because all he does is look at facts and numbers but at the same time it's just Yeah, Morden is one of my favorite characters. And it's because you meet him on Omega, where he first sets up a clinic to treat people in an area of Omega where people have succumbed to this plague. So he sets up a free clinic to help people. And again, the background dialogue is so good. Because when you ask about him, they're like, Oh, how tough can a little Salarian be? And then he ends up taking out three mercenaries with with just a few mechs and just a shot. And you're like, Oh, shit, this person is actually quite dangerous. And he doesn't look dangerous. He's just this cute little lizard dude. No, absolutely. And then you find out he's part of the secret forces or spatial forces rather, the STG and o such a cool character because much like the others, you get to know him by talking to him and seeing what he thinks of the genophage and he tries to defend it. But what I love is the fact that he has that doubt that Was it the right thing? what Did I have the right to do this and everything? And I have to admit, I was 100% on the side of the Krogans in the first game where I was just like, this is disgusting. I can't believe that they did this. But then when you take a step back and you kind of think of it rationally, you think, well would there have been any way for the council members to peacefully bring this to a close? Probably not and it seems like the most humane way but even then it still doesn't sit right with me that these particular races are you know the plain god with this whole civilisation. It's just absolutely heartbreaking to see the back and forth between them and I think they characterise that perfectly with that Morden, I think Morden is by far one of the stellar members of the group and I think that he should be in the front of the box, personally. but I agree. And you also get the most funniest interactions with him. Oh yeah. First of all, he sings, which is just one of my absolute favourite moments. I love it. And then their standout moment is when if you romance Garris, he basically gives you the birds and the bees talk. which is just so funny, and I love that moment so much. For some reason, this playthrough, I didn't get it. I got another one. The way you romance someone is by constantly talking to someone, and then Morden kind of flips his head. He's like, oh, I've noticed that you've been coming by lately. I know I'm very attractive, but you're my commander, and it's just so funny. And i maybe because it didn't line up romancing with Garros, that's why I didn't get that talk. But Morden just going to Shepard, coughing and going, don't swallow. It's just my favorite moment in all of Mass Effect.
01:11:31
Speaker
he's got some great lines because he does the same if you're romance and tally and then because he talks about how the quarians of course are immunocompromised and he has like a shot for her to take so you can have that brief period where she'll only get a cold and everything and I find some of those moments sweet where it's like she says the next morning that she's got a cold but it was totally worth it and things and kind of if that's two or three but either way it's just it's adorable that he does try to help you out. He's like your scientist wingman. And if we're talking about wingmen here, going off of the last couple of characters, will we talk about briefly Grunt? My tank baby! I love Grunt's character but I feel as if I preferred him more in 3 than I did 2 and the reason for that is just purely because I wanted Rex, I wanted Rex back and I didn't get Rex and I was like where's my boy, you're not Rex. I think he's a great character but again feels as if almost you're going back to stage zero with him because you know Rex in the first game he was very stoic and didn't speak a lot, they was just angry and then he kind of warmed up and now you're going back to the same with Gurun. I think he gets better though, he definitely opens up a lot more. I love Grunt. I think, yeah, he's my son. I do agree that because I just did the mission where you reunite with Grunt in 3 and it's just such an amazing fun moment. I love it so much. And until you don't really get those moments with him. And there's another really hilarious moment with Grunt in 3, which you'll probably talk about when you get to 3 next week. It's a Saturday, wasn't it? Yeah, where he gets arrested. It's just so funny. But all that lead up to it where Ron's loyalty mission is that he's basically going through puberty and he needs to go through the right to make him a Krogan man. And it's just the interactions he has afterwards with Shepard where he's like, you're part of my kin. You're one of me. I really like it. Also, he's just OP to have on your squad. I mean, he most threw everything. I always have Grunt on my squad. He is like the muscle. I love him. He's my tank, baby. You always have to have a Krogan on your team. Yeah, which is why three sucks. As I said, we'll get onto it next week. But yeah, I agree with you. This is why you didn't ask me to do three because I would be probably whinging the entire way through. Oh, don't worry. That's Dan's problem next week. He likes three.
Mass Effect 3 Critiques and Thane’s Emotional Story
01:14:02
Speaker
It's got its moments, it's got its moments. Yeah, it really sounds like I'm hating on three. I'm currently halfway through three and it's still Mass Effect. It's just there's so many moments that bug me and also two is the best. We're almost completely, well, we still have only a few more characters to talk about out of this massive cast. And speaking of the best, can I talk about Thane? Oh, Thane. I'm gonna be honest, I remember, as I said before, seeing him in the front of the box wondering, oh, is this Bioware's attempt to say, oh, look at this A.G.? alien and a trench coat and the glasses and what, but it doesn't have glasses in this default one, but there's a ultimate skin you can put on them where it has sunglasses. It's so goddamn cool. ah At the same time, I was like, great, this is going to be the stereotypical old cool guy. And then I heard the voice. Oh my God. I mean, the voice is just so iconic. And I've got a friend that absolutely loves themed for more than the voice, but I can see why he is a popular choice for romancing, because initially I thought, you know, if I ever get round to replaying it as Femship, because I played it through, it was through one as Femship and not really two, I always wonder that if I do, should I romance then? Because on the one hand, he is just such an amazing character. personally. See as someone whose degree is in history and religious studies, you know, when he started going off about religion and his beliefs and things, they were so goddamn beautiful. I'm sorry but they were so beautiful. When he's talking about I think it was too fearr, which is a state of getting lost in one another and everything and honestly, the fact that he was so impactful just when he appeared. Love him. I think he's an absolutely amazing character, which is why his departure in the third game left that big ass hole in my heart. I'm sorry. And I think that's the only reason, other than if my heart didn't belong to Garros already, it would belong to Thane. But the thought of losing him in three, just, yeah, I don't think I could do it. Mass Effect, you have all these options so you can play it a different way. I'm such a creature of habit. I play it the same time every time, which I know probably not the point, but also I could never cheat on Garros. But I thought maybe once I'll do the Thane romance angle, but then at the same time, it means that I have no one in three. Well, I can't remember if I was the one to break the news to you on that, and apologies if I was, but when, and again this is spoilers for Mass Effect 3, but when he is killed by the edgiest little shit in the world, we'll get to it next week. I'll leave you to rant about that and went on your three review. But yeah, he ends up passing away. It's such a sad scene where you go to see your final goodbyes in the hospital and everything. And if you did the Citadel DLC, then you get to have a mini-precession slash funeral for him. And if you romance him, you get an extra video message from him saying about how femshep and
01:17:14
Speaker
Coley and his son both made his life complete, and even the events so of Mass Effect 2 gave him purpose and everything. And even I, as a guy, I was tearing up, I was like, don't leave her! And you know he calls her his Sia, which is his significant other than things. And honestly, I just thought it was beautiful. But what broke me, Bioware, you absolute shitlord, what broke me was when at the very end of the Citadel DLC, you gather up and you're looking at the Normandy and you're saying, oh, we had the best time. And there's a variation depending on whether you romance someone, whether you don't. And usually if you romance someone, they will stand beside you, which I think is a beautiful moment. a few romance then. He is a force ghost! And that is so goddamn sad! Where she's just like, how I wish you could be here then? And he's like, I'll see you across the sea and things. I'm like, get him back!
01:18:12
Speaker
like It is heartbreaking and the fact that you have to play through two, because I genuinely didn't know that he was going to die in three, which made it all the more absolutely devastating. I was just a wreck after three. I was like, I don't want to play this game anymore. Yeah, seeing to his whole philosophy about him being an assassin for the Hanar, the space jellyfish, which I thought was absolutely hilarious but also amazing, the fact that he is an assassin for them but at the same time he has a surprising reverence for life. You know, he just doesn't take it willy nilly. He's not a serial killer. He does it with purpose. And he even tries to save his own son, which again, he's a great father. Ladies he's in the Pandalorian audience, what more could you want from this man? The fact that he's not Garris. Yeah, that's true.
01:19:03
Speaker
I think that just genuinely, before we get onto the final character, that just genuinely punctuates the absolute strength of these characters, because in the first one, I know it was the first romp really into this world, but it's very limited with your romance options, because you've only got Caden or Ashley for mail and femship. I know, I know. And then you've got Liara, who's the in-between, and is the reason that they ended up causing such a controversy in America. Do you remember this? No? We're basically in this Fox News, which you know it's already going to be stellar journalism here, but it was Fox News who were like, oh, this is stimulated sex and it's a sex game and the tagline was something like, Sexbox 360, which I thought was so hilarious, but they only said it under the impression that this is what was going to happen. But you know, you've seen it yourself and you can look it up on YouTube. Pause this episode, go look it up and come back. I mean, you get a bit of side boob or a bit of bum apparently, but you know, you don't really have anything overly graphic because the animations obviously just not there either. But also it's tame. I mean, it's nothing. I assume there are more graphic games out there. I have not played them, but compared to an episode of Game of Thrones, it's practically, well, it is PG. But also you do not have to romance someone and you didn't romance anyone in one when you played one for the first time. Yeah, you saw those choices and ran. I always like romancing Caden and then dumping him for Garros. I think that is so satisfying. There's the fact that when you see him, you run into him on Horizon and he's just like, I loved you. And then she's like, well, then come with me. And he's like, no, I don't know who you are. He's like,
01:20:51
Speaker
He just said you loved me. Trust me dammit, Garros trusts me. That's why I'm with him now. But he's less of a dick to you if you don't romance him. When I played it this time around and I did not romance him, he's actually still a bit of a dick, but less of a dick. And I was like, Oh, but yeah, I do think Kaden is a good romance option for one. But yeah, after that, just either move on to Garros or Thane. But But that's the thing, it's just a few dialogue options and then one scene before each major mission and that's it. That's the whole romance thing and I think you and I have spoken about this how Talies and Garris seem extremely short compared to other ones. Yeah, especially with the Asari. Yeah, it bugs me because especially now playing 3, you get so many scenes with Liara but you get none with Garris and I'm just like, Well, it's actually the same with Miranda as well, because she gets really hot and steamy with mailship, and you're like, you know why. They know why they're doing it. Yeah, mail gays again. But yeah, with Talia, it's like, oh, the mask is off. Oh my. And obviously, I'm not expecting anything explicit. Yeah. Exactly. and This is not us saying we need more sex, but- We're not perverts on it.
01:22:03
Speaker
But it's just equal. Keep it equal throughout. It's also like when you reunite with them. I'm not sure with Tali, but with Garris, it's like almost normal. Whereas you reunite with Liara in 2 and she immediately sticks her tongue down your throat. And you're just like, whoa, back off. Even though I was that set on not pursuing the Liara romance further, we just kept making out. And I'm like, where is this with Garris? because I said this last week as well, but the message to you as well, you were really surprised that I went pretty much the ace route for Mass Effect. JG Yeah, that's my life, so. SC Yeah, you were like, I think you were genuinely curious because you were messaging me like, why did you do it? You know, is there a particular reason or whatever? And I was like, hell, let me put it this way. My choices are a borderline xenophobe, because to be honest, I left on Vermeijer, spoilers, It was either her or Liara. And I remember the first time I played it years and years ago, I rescued Liara first. But because I did it out of order the last time that I played it there for this review, I ended up getting the last. So between her talking to you and declaring her love and whatnot, it was very uncomfortable because it felt very fast. And she's like, oh, I have feelings for you, Commander Shepard.
01:23:18
Speaker
It's like the second kind of direction, yeah. It's like, oh, come and study my Prothean artifacts. And I'm like, listen, Hen, I like you. You're an asset to the team. But right now, I've got a lot in my mind, OK? It's just like, oh, OK, OK. I'm like, no, no, no. Let's get this clear here. you stay in that part of the ship, I'll stay over here. And again, you're completely right. By the time you get to the second game and you reunite with Liara, which I feel as if it's a nice point to talk about the penultimate side character here, but Liara, she's quite needy. But what I will say is I prefer Liara in two compared to the first one. I mean, she does definitely evolve. It is character growth where she goes from a damsel in distress to a pretty badass character. It's just, it's like we've spoke about this before where they're like, she's clearly the developer's designated favorites. So they put more time with her. And if you're not pursuing that romance, it just takes away from the
Character Development and Romance Options
01:24:16
Speaker
experience. Yeah, because it's like after you do the Shadow Broker DLC, which after that is an absolutely brilliant DLC. Oh yeah, it's so much fun. Once you do the Shadow Broker DLC, you can invite her onto your ship. And I invited her just purely out of pleasantries and she comes on with this looking beautiful and this red dress and everything. And she's like, so you and Tali. And I'm like, listen, I'm not going to tell you again.
01:24:42
Speaker
Italia and I are more than friends, whereas with her, you know, it's like she's constantly so trying to jump down your throat. I know that sounds so weird, but I'm just like, I taught you before, I taught you again. Get out of here, Liana. You promiscuous smurf, get out of here. I was walking on eggshells when I did that DLC. I was just like, if you fuck up my chances with Garros, I'm going to be so mad. Stay back. Stay back. Just spraying the bottle. Exactly. She's an ego beaver. That's all, obviously. observ Actually, speaking of William, the one character, and I just want to point this out before we go into the last one, but the one character that I was severely disappointed with never got a romance with was, and this sounds like such a random thing, but do you remember when you're on earlier and you meet the internal affairs agent, Gianna Parisini? And I'm not going to lie, I was really engaged in her story because I did not expect her to pop up again. And then when she did and she helped her out and she gives you the kiss goodbye, I was like, come on to Normandy, we need an internal affairs agent.
01:25:45
Speaker
She doesn't have that interaction with femship, so I completely missed that. Yeah, I was like, Tali, look away. ah Yeah, it was a cool touch, I will say that, but I do think she was a really cool character. They could have put more into it again. There was hundreds of ps side characters that they could have done. But speaking of which, final character here, we have the biotic, unhinged person herself, Jack, which I don't want to be that guy to be like, oh, it's the male gaze again. the I mean, her outfit is just two straps. As a fashion designer, I don't even know how that stays on. It would have to be glued to her, especially with all the flips she does. You don't see anything because she's also covered in tattoos, but she's topless. The first thing I do when she becomes loyal is I change her outfit, give the woman some clothes. That's the thing, though, because her outfit is like a kind of tank talk thing, which I have to say, I prefer that. i I'm totally on board with you. I prefer that to belt.
01:26:45
Speaker
ah hope Because I'm going to be honest, if I'm not wearing that, then I'm going to be honest, I don't really want to see ah the character wear it. And it's not me being a snowball. Ew, how unorthodox. No, no, it's it's a literal belt. Come on. As I said, it's also just dozen physics. It would fly and flap about all over the place. As a fashion designer, if I would have cosplayed Jack, I would have to super glue that down to make sure nothing pops out. But other than that, I do really like Jack as a character. At the start, she is very one note. She's like the angry, rebellious. It's not a phase mom. Exactly. It's who I am. Shadow the hedgehog player. Yeah. But as you get to know her, I also like having her on my squad as well because she is also very OP. Maybe because I love reuniting with her in
Gameplay Mechanics Evolution in Mass Effect
01:27:34
Speaker
three. I missed out on that on my first playthrough because on my first playthrough, no matter what I did, I could not get Miranda and Jack to stop fighting. So I had to just do the final mission with one squad member, not loyal. And as a result, Jack died. So I could not. Sorry, is this spoiler for the ending? No, no, no, no, go for it. And so I did not get to interact with her in three. and Maybe my interactions now with three are rosying the interactions with two, but I still really do like Jack. I think it's a crime that you can't romance her as femshep. Apparently that was the original plan and then they changed their mind. Yeah, I heard that as well. I feel as if maybe the Asari were probably the… I mean, is there any LGBT choice for Finship? I suppose they are really, but in the core cast, I don't think there is. No, I mean there isn't one. They gave you one in three, because I don't think there was one for Mailship either. I mean technically there's Kelly I suppose, but yeah I don't even know she. She counts? Yeah. Not in a bad way, she's a nice enough character. Yeah, I mean it's a mystery why they didn't do it and the fact that we didn't get Chuck and then we got trainer and three and it's just like. I think probably just because of the controversies that they had from the previous game that maybe they thought okay let's not stoke the ire of these particular silly groups and things and the basement dwellers. like yeah Like, you know me, I'm on the mentality that everything should be gay. I think the romance options shouldn't be limited. I think you should be able to boink whoever you want. But I saw the mod and I was just like, wait, did they change it for Legendary Edition? And then I realized, oh, no, it's just a mod. But then again, cheering because I've seen the compilations on YouTube and during the boink sequence with Jack, she cries. And that's a bit weird for me. I don't know. I know because that's at that moment, she's most vulnerable and she's never opened
01:29:32
Speaker
up to anyone. But at the same time, it it almost seems a bit fetishised. It just, yeah. Yeah, it's very much that I can fix her mentality. Because if you try to romance her as male shape, there's a line in the dialogue where he basically tries to get her to open up and she says how she used to run with a guy and I think he ended up getting, I think, killed or captured and basically had a timer set to play a recording, basically saying how he wanted a life with her, what he would do with her in the future. And it's all very sweet, but it's not very sweet when you've got Shepard lingering in the background going, ah, yeah, yeah, that's sad. Anyway, when a boink in the bowels of the ship. No, oh no, no, no. That is just, as you said, it seems a bit too much.
01:30:24
Speaker
especially when you factor in the fact it is a person who's been mentally broken and experimented on to have all these biotic powers and things, it's a bit much, I'm not gonna lie. But speaking of a bit much, we have two more quick points. We've of course got the finale and we have the gameplay. So see very quickly before we move on to the finale and the DLCs and things, what were your thoughts about the change in gameplay from the first game to this? Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's a baseline to compare it to, because of course I'm a novice gamer, because it's kind of jarring going from one, two to three, because the gameplay is always a bit different. And you end each game at the top of your game, and then you have to almost restart yourself at the bottom. One thing that I really wished they would have done in the legendary edition is make the combat mechanics the same throughout, because it changes every single game. And it's a bit jarring to relearn. I remember in two and one of the missions I kept dying because I forgot there wasn't an instant heal, there was only a revive. And then now back in three, my health was really low and I was realized, oh no, three does have a heal and a revive function. And then I also much preferred how the squad powers were laid out in one. Then they were in two. I don't like the little bar at the bottom. I preferred the ones at the side and I didn't like two's leveling system where you just have the four. I again, much preferred that in three. Other than that, I think nothing like a lot. changed. I mean, they did make a better effort where the story and the side quests merge more and the side quests are an essential part of the story because if you don't do the side quests, it affects the outcome of the last game. And I really liked that. And yeah, I really liked that. And I thought that added to the experience as well. Now I'm totally with you there. are I feel as if gameplay-wise there was a lot to love about this and it felt a lot better to play compared to the first one. It felt a lot more fluid and it felt as if it was taking a lot more inspiration from games of the time. Like for example Gears of War was very popular and the whole cover-based shooter genre was at its prime so it really took... I'm not saying it copied Gears of War by the way, just point that out for legal reasons but it definitely took inspiration from that genre and it was really cool to see, I have to say. The one thing I find annoying is the fact that they had to backtrack on themselves to say, oh we no longer use guns with infinite ammo anymore, we use ones with ammunition and it's like, that feels like a very weird step backwards and they do address that in the read with Conrad, the obsessive fan that follows you about. However, it's annoying a bit, but it does add to the gameplay and I have to admit that I do like having limited ammo just because it adds more of a challenge. I found that in one, because I didn't have limited ammo, all the guns were kind of the same and I just kept using the one gun. That's another thing in one, there isn't that much of a difference between the different weapons. I usually go for the soldier one, just because that makes most sense in my head that Shepard would be a soldier. And the sniper rifle in one is absolutely god-awful. I never ended up using the sniper rifle in one, but in two or three because I usually switch to the infiltrator class. I'm a sniper, I love the sniper rifle, but I find myself switching more between weapons and it makes sense to have multiple weapons. And yeah, in one I was just using the assault rifle the entire way through. yeah I have to say that didn't feel like there was as much variety. Like there were hundreds of weapons in the first game but I felt like because they were trying to make it more RPG like that they were bogging themselves down and the stats and things whereas on the one hand they made it a lot more linear which was good but at the same time they took away that customization of the weapons and basically made them less OP than they had any right to be to be honest. Yeah, I have to say one thing that I did really like in one, which they did not bring to two or even three, is that when you switched between weapons, you could see the difference in stats and strengths. I did really like that in two, you only have a description and that bugs me so much. Okay, maybe super Mass Effect fans know the names of every single gun. I do not. It was a while since I played too so I was just like okay which is the sniper rifle I like and I actually like read through every single one of the descriptions and it doesn't show which one is more powerful because I do like the stats where you're seeing like okay this one does this much damage this one's heatsink keeps timing out maybe because I'm just a nerd and I love stats and they do kind of bring that back in three but they don't have the hair option, which ah kind of bothers me. And then you can customize in three. I also really liked what many people do not like the mini game of scanning planets. I liked it as well. yeah Yeah. And also the whole upgrading your gear and upgrading the ship. as you go along. I can see how that's tedious. There is a way around it, the whole, you have to explore every nook and cranny to get this gun, this gun, this gun and hack this safe and hack that safe and shit, someone's shooting at us, but I have to hack this safe. It's a bit ridiculous, but you can still buy those upgrades. at another point. So if you miss one, it's not such a big deal. But I did really like the ability to upgrade weapons, upgrade powers, and where you could learn two new powers, which was really nice. And I don't think three has that to my memory. So I like that. I mean, I think in terms of gameplay, it is pretty simple. It's point and shoot, you run, you jump. But as I said, I don't think you play Mass Effect for the game, combat mechanics, you play it for the story and lore. Oh no, 100%, yeah. Because the only thing that I think they did better, 100% better compared to the first game was something that we haven't really touched on is the interruptions. Yes, the quick timers, yeah. So during cutscenes you can interrupt people with either a paragon, a renegade option and that has kind of minor effects later on because you get emails from people and I absolutely love that to be honest because you get emails from people that you helped out in the first game which I love.
01:36:49
Speaker
I do really like that mechanic and I love that they kept that in the three as well. And I wish they kind of concluded that in one in Legendary, but Legendary was just a graphics update. We could do a whole separate episode of my thoughts on Legendary, but I really liked that. And when I first played two, I thought you had to hit every single one of them, no matter if it's Renegade or Paragon, which is why of course I ran into trouble later on. So I kept always switching between the Renegade and Paragon option, but you're meant to pick one and just stick to it. I really liked it and I really liked seeing the little animations of what you would do because the thing is it doesn't actually reveal what you're gonna do, which is a surprise. Spoilers for three. But it's how I ended up accidentally killing Caden. Oh, yeah. Because I saw the quick flashing thing and I generally thought I would just shoot him in the leg, but nope,
Impact of Loyalty Missions and Final Mission Strategy
01:37:39
Speaker
I killed him. I wasn't that remorseful, to be honest. Yeah, you should just get him one of those t-shirts. I survived Vermeijer and all I got it was shot in the chest. But you're right, that is a very welcomed addition. I really did like that mechanic. on them absolutely. It's definitely one that made me in particular but I felt as if in the first one that you could kind of just stand there and let the timer go on and all and then don't get me wrong we can do that for this game and its sequels thereafter but it was for this that kept you engaged in what was going on? Were you going to be a dynamic shepherd? Were you going to be more laid back? and Or were you going to be more paragon? It was just the amount of ways that you could change the story was absolutely fantastic. But speaking of the story, let's dive into the uber spoilers here. Let's dive into the finale where you're
01:38:27
Speaker
crew are essentially taken by the collectors. And as you said before, if you don't do the Omega-4 relay mission right away or in the next one or two turns, then unfortunately your crew members are going to get turned into a pile of goo, which is an ideal. Only one. Only one. It's just the annoying one. but but Even then I rescued everyone I have to say. Well, good for you. I managed it this time. I was given bad advice when it came to playing too. So yeah, I could never, because the whole point of the side quests is to build loyalty and this loyalty will affect the final mission, which I really like. And more than likely, well, I think it's guaranteed that if you start this mission with an unloyal member, someone will die. Yeah. And more than likely it's two people will die. But I love getting the IFF in the way, I don't want to say my favorite mission because I hate husks. I hate husks so much. And that moment where they crawl up from the floor, hu nightmare fuel. But it is a very fun mission because you get to meet Legion and then you install the IFF and then conveniently every single squad member leaves the ship. And then the Normandy gets attacked. And I love that entire sequence where the only time in the game you're playing another character, you're controlling Joker. And the attention's in the detail where you pay attention to the background and you see crew members being dragged away by collectors. And because you need the IFF to guide you through the Omega Relay, that's the whole reason you can't go through the Omega Relay before getting the IFF. And you go through, and the whole aim of the game is to go through the Omega Relay, where to go to the collector's home world and destroy the collector base. Everything up to that I love. This whole sequence when you go through the Omega Relay, when it starts where people you first get, it of course depends off if you upgraded to Normandy or not. How well you upgraded to Normandy, how well you will do, how well the Normandy will slide through it. And you get attacked by that buggy thingy first. I think it's a drone. In the Normandy base, you get attacked from the drone and you have that sequence and then you have to make decisions throughout the entire thing. And you can make some seriously bad decisions. You can really screw up the mission if you make the wrong decision, which I like. Obviously, by the time you and I played it, I think we all knew who to select and what to do. I really wish first playthrough going in blind, but I think that would have been so frustrating, not knowing who to choose and who to designate as leaders. Yeah, the funniest meme I have to admit I've seen is at the very beginning of that mission, Jacob volunteers himself for the events and of course Miranda tells him off saying don't be so stupid but blah blah blah and then everybody on the internet's like no no hold on Miranda if he wants to go on the events he can go on the events but if you let him go on the events he'll die because he's not an expert but I still find that funny of oh I'll go on the events it's like let him cook
01:41:14
Speaker
I'm sure nothing will go wrong here. I absolutely love it though, I have to say. As you said, it started off absolutely fantastically where the collectors end up kidnapping everyone, including the plucky engineers, Ken and Gabby, I want to say. best Scottish representation.
01:41:36
Speaker
you know my opinions on Scottish representation. He's not the worst, but I think he gets really annoying C in the third game and honestly the kind of overlap for me, so I can can't remember if he says this about people 1 and 2 but you know when he's making inappropriate comments about Miranda and other female characters, honestly I just wanted a prompt so I could punch him in the face because I was like, shut up! You know that way? It's like, you're the only Scot in this ship and you don't drink so you're not living up to that stereotype. You're not going to be a Scottish pervert. I'm like, stop
01:42:17
Speaker
Stop it. It was annoying. He was initially alright, but as I said, I preferred him in this one compared to the three. But the whole sequence, especially with the Suicide Run, OST, Brilliant. I still listen to that when I'm working or whatever. It is such an epic and the music swells at Christa Hendo's as you go through the Omega-4 relay. This is your last gambout you get through. You hopefully unscathed defeat the collectors and you escape. The one thing I have to admit that absolutely freaked me the hell out, and I'm not sure if it freaked you out, but say the human reaper. Yeah, it does. I mean reapers in general, I mean husks already gave me like shivers and then the human reaper is creepy and then you realise okay this whole thing is made out of liquefied humans, but the lore which I love about the Reapers, because Reapers assimilate the races that they conquered. And obviously, the husks are clearly the humans. And in three, we get different iterations. And then we've got the collectors, which I can make a word spoilers now, we can now say which were Protheans at one point, which they got indoctrinated and lost their ways. And now they're kind of the Reaper spies that they left while the Reapers are hibernating and waiting to destroy us. And the whole concept is creepy. just like these sentient machines waiting in dark space and their sole mission is that every billion years like every cycle they come out kill us all just for fun and then go back to dark space with the people that they assimilated and look like Yeah, that humanoid reaper thing was creepy. And obviously I know when you take it down, it's the basic rule of horror. The first shot never kills it. So I knew it would pop back up at one point. It falls down and then you hear the boss music and then it just comes out from the ground. But I love and both creeped out, but the whole design of the collector base is also fleshy. Nightmare fuel. Yeah, nightmare fuel. It's yeah, fleshy and bug-like and it's just... Now I'm with you there. They definitely made it as creepy and just unlovable as possible, to be honest. They did so well in the horror aspect of this because as we were saying at the very beginning, we go from game one where it's kind of, as we said, a stranger in this strange land to just absolutely this horror-ville of you're no longer in Citadel space, you're in the term of the system, then you go through the Omega-4 relay and you're even further out and you just meet all these horrors and the true brutality of this universe. it is so fascinating to see as your character goes through it and especially at the end.
DLCs and Post-Game Content in Mass Effect 2
01:45:00
Speaker
And what's also interesting is the fact that this is the only game at the trilogy where you can play a post game, which I find it fascinating as well because you can also get all of your crewmates killed and if you kill them all, not personally but if you get them all killed then what ends up happening is you also die and what's interesting is you can't actually carry over that particular shepherd onto three which i know that makes sense but i thought that was quite interesting and i have the youtuber who does a lot of mass effects content i think it's big dan gaming he does a lot of playthroughs and things like oh what if you did this unthinkable thing or that unthinkable thing it's like thank god he's putting the the legwork so we don't have to for the horrible, horrible decisions. But yeah, it is interesting. But the fact that you can play the game even after the ending is really, really interesting because it is the only game and that of course leads us really on to the DLCs. But see, before we go on to that, did you play the DLCs before or after you went through the relay?
01:46:07
Speaker
four, because I had them all. As I said, I had a really big problem with loyalty during my first two playthroughs. So I did every single mission ever to get my paragon up as high as possible. And I was still not successful the first time around. But then this time, I did it after I didn't do all of it, I saved arrival as a post credit scene. But honestly it felt a little bit weird playing the game after the credits rolled especially that final sequence because you destroy the humanoid reaper you run through the collectorship as it is about to explode you have that fun sequence where you jump onto the normandy you see joker shooting things which you'd never see and then you see you've got this triumphant music and It depends if someone died, you're in front of a coffin. But if everyone's alive, you see every's faces and then you're getting ready to fight the Reapers and you get this awesome shot of the Reapers. And I feel like that is a very good way to end it and an epic way to end it. So afterwards, going back into the game, even though I think Arrival is kind of set up to be like an end credit game, it just felt weird. It felt wrong. Yeah, I don't know what you mean. I feel as if this is one of the main issues I have with the finale as a whole, is the fact that it is so grand in the epic and whatnot that it almost puts three to shame. You know, it's like how can three and all get to next week? Because you've got Dan, it's fine. well He'll put some positivity into it.
01:47:38
Speaker
Yeah, we'll get some traffic lights, we'll be fine. But how do you go from something so epic with this lovable cast, for the most part, Koff Zaid, but how can you go from this lovable cast of characters who you spend all this time with and you put all those others in? Because I think I spent about to say 35 hours? It could have been more. I spent a long time on this game. So to have that and then you have to go through the DLC. Yeah, I know what you mean because Firewalker, I'm going to be honest, I don't really get through it very much. I skip that now. I think I did it once. I mean, it's so crap. I don't think anyone played to and thought, Oh, it's missing a Mako. They introduced the hammerhead, which is a little bit more easier to stare, but I think everyone's least favorite part was the Mako. So they're like, Oh, let's do a DLC where you're riding around in another version of the Mako. It's just, yeah. I think Firewalkers, you literally you're just driving about. Is there even story at Firewalker? I think at the end you get a Prothean art-a-fact, I wanna say, but... Yeah, not worth it. Whoop, to you do, because you get a real-life Prothean in the next game, spoiler. So, yeah, I guess. But yeah, Firewalker's a bit of a waste of time. You've also got Overlord Yeah, Overlord as a DLC is freaky as hell. I genuinely really hate that mission and the only reason I do it is so we can have David in three. I, honestly, I teared up when I saw him in the third game and he was happy, he was free. I thought, thank God you got to Grissom Academy, because again, I was really tempted just to go full renegade when I saw his brother and just to give context and refresh people's memories. The overall DLC is when you go through this server space and you find out that one of the scientists has been experimenting on his autistic brother in order to kind of boost his abilities because he's very intellectual. I can't remember if he's got biotic powers. I don't think he has but yeah because the makeup of his brain, his brother thinks he can use it to control electronics like the geth. But he straps him up like something out of Outlast where he's got tubes and It's that image is still burned in my frame I think honestly that is the most like horrific of the series for me personally it creeps the fuck out of me and also the last shot of him it's like clockwork orange where his eyes are held open by wires but you can see him crying and it's just
01:50:16
Speaker
So yeah, horrific. Yeah, seeing him in three and knowing that he's all right, you would think, oh, that person's definitely dead after you separate him from all that electronic junk. And yeah, and the DLC itself has like the hammerhead, which yeah, I really do not like. And you have to drive about to three different checkpoints before you get to the final mission. yeah that is the worst of any game in particular this where you're like oh go to point A and I'm like oh jesus there's gonna be a point B go to point B oh please tell me this doesn't come in threes go to point C and you're like oh god damn it right that's it. You guys just destroy this base now I don't care. It's very tedious at times especially with the hammerhead which has the resilience of a wet paper towel I'm going to be honest.
01:51:00
Speaker
Yeah, at least you can say one thing about the Mako. It is adorable as fuck. It can take some gef lasts and it will still be fine. The shields are strong. One little dent in the hammerhead and it's game over. Yeah, it's a beefy boy after saying hammerhead. Not so much. But speaking of not so beefy boys that late. That's very weirdly on to the final DLC which is actually, I was really surprised at how mixed people received this because when I played it, I thought it was devastating and encapsulated perfectly the themes of the game both as I was saying about Rebirth but also the theme of sacrifice because there's a lot of sacrificing going on in and the game with the particular characters and their journeys as people. But in this one you literally have to sacrifice Batarians. And I know I shouldn't laugh, but there's just one meme that always makes me laugh where it's Anderson who's sent to Shepard. Dammit Shepard! You killed 30,000 Batarians, but you know what? At least you stopped the Reapers from coming through the relay. And it just turns to Shepard and Shepard goes, Reapers?
01:52:11
Speaker
I'm just get confused. Oh, with the meme of course of him really hating the Batarians comes in. I have to say, I think they're the only alien race in and the games that they don't have a positive role model compared to the other ones. Like at least you could say, oh well you've got a Garris or a Rex or a Talley or whatever. For the Batarians you've got that one sick one maybe? but Because I was really annoyed at that when I was doing the mission to recruit Morden. I was like, right, okay, I'll spray this Batarian with the omni gel. And he was like, oh, why did you do that? And I was like, you know what? I'm going for the Star Trek route here. I believe in peace amongst races and everything. And, you know, that's the way he reacted. He's just like, yo, maybe humans aren't so bad. I'm like, yeah
01:52:56
Speaker
know what? I made a friend today and then it was completely ruined when the Terrians started to shoot my ship, right? So I was actually really surprised by that. I was really surprised that people had mixed receptions to arrival. Yeah. And I'm actually, to be honest, quite mixed on it. It's a very unique mission because you're on your own. You do not have your squad with you, which is a bit I don't think it's the only case that ever happens. And then you have to infiltrate this Batarian camp and rescue this doctor who does not look suspicious one bit. And I have to say because there is a lot of skill involved getting through this camp undetected and you can do two ways. You can blast your way through or you can do the sneaky way where you'd sneak your way through it. And then you rescue this doctor and you it gets revealed to you that, oh, no, the Reapers are on our way and they're going to bust through this relay. So that's why we need to go and blow it up. And you get the solo shooting sequence where it's like a timer of how long you can last against these people against like the wave of onslaught. There's a lot of replayability there to see if you could last the full time without being taken down. Yeah. And then you destroy an entire planet. Well, sorry, planet. Planet is... but so
01:54:08
Speaker
I thought it was just one, one colony. No it's the whole system. Oh it's the whole system, oh shit. Well as far as I remember, because remember when he's looking at the very end of the map of that area and it's like 1, 2, 3, 4 and then he just has to turn away because it's a very depressing ending to the game. Yeah, but I think what makes it so good, it works really well with the lead up to three because in three you're practically court-martialed and you're stripped of rank because of, well, you did commit a war crime, you just killed a bunch of
Philosophical Depth and Reaper Threat
01:54:40
Speaker
people. I don't know, I think it's a good mission. I think doing this mission straight after you did the collector mission, it does feel a bit strange. It feels very Dead Space-esque I have to say. It feels very much like oh there's this horror of people getting manipulated by the Reapers. I feel as if they do it really well in the Leviathan DLC in the third game when they talk about indoctrination and things like that. But for the second year, it feels kind of jarring if you do this after the credits because at the end of it, it's very triumphant, it's very heroic, and then yeah you have to go back and say, Uh oh I made a whoopsie of a war crime. It's just a real bum note and I know I'm pretty much underselling a war crime in space here but it's such a bummer of a note to go out on to be like oh you saved the galaxy again but 30,000 or is it 300,000? Could be more to be fair. I'm saying 30,000 it could be 300,000 but there's thousands of Batarians that lose their lives. Again it just adds to this real sadness of
01:55:45
Speaker
the whole story, this idea of Sheppard having to sacrifice. And there's actually quite an interesting thing that, see if you let the timer run out when you're trying to escape from the, I kind of remember, I think it's the lab. Oh no, it's the ash. It's where they're keeping the Reaper artifact. yeah where you're escaping that and if you let the timer run out you get this really weird flash of images and it's like really horrible and distorted stuff of what happens if the reapers come through that relay they're just killing everyone they're assimilating them it is absolutely horrifying and there is a lot of horror in this game but the fact that you have to do that there's no real victim to date it's like a Pyrrhic victory, you know, you've stopped the Reapers at the cost ah of all of these innocent lives. And as much as I like to meme about Batarians being absolute pains in the arches of the universe in this game, again it goes back to characters like Mordin for example, do they have the right to control this and make this decision about life in the universe? So it really asks the philosophical questions as well, because you could easily look at this game and go, oh it's just another dumb sci-fi space shooter but... it's not. The threat of the Reapers is so good, but it's like, what are the other options? You let the Reapers through millions, like the entire galaxy is going to get extinct. I think it just, it falls a little flat because you basically just took out the collector base. Yeah. So you just averted this massive threat. You delayed the Reapers again. And then especially if you follow that, you just took out the collector base and then you do immediately a rival afterwards. It's like, Oh no, the Reapers are coming again. And it's just like, Oh, for fuck's sake. It reminds me of that moment in Terminator. In Terminator 2, they stop Judgment Day and then Terminator 3, he comes back and says that Judgment Day is going to come back again and John Connor's like, oh no, we stopped Judgment Day. And he goes, negative, we only postponed it. And you're like, oh, for
01:57:40
Speaker
god's sake. And that's exactly what it feels like. It feels like acting this sequel bait that, oh yeah, you stop the collectors. And it's like, oh no, the secret like bad guys are going to be coming along the horizon. And then you're like, eh, yeah. So. To put it into further perspective, because Mass Effect 3 starts six months after that moment. So you you only delayed the Reapers for six months, and Earth did fuck all during that time. Apparently they were preparing for war, but no one heeded Shepard's warning, so they weren't more prepared than they were then. It's just, I think it just needed some fine tuning. If there was a Mass Effect series, I don't think I would include that one, that storyline.
01:58:20
Speaker
I mean, personally, I blame Space Canada for not preparing in time. Mass Effect 3. Space Canada. Yes, I know where it starts at the very beginning. I want to say it is, but I could be wrong. In 3? Yeah, yeah. Oh, when Earth gets attacked. Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't just mean the country of Canada floating in space. That's what I thought. What, do you not know that Batarians are the Canadians of space apparently? I thought that's what kind of the joke you were making. Oh, I never joke about Space Canada. no so i so show canada gets i canada yeah yeah yeah
01:58:55
Speaker
But on that very horrific note, as a kind of closing point, what are your final thoughts about
Mass Effect 2’s Legacy and Community Impact
01:59:02
Speaker
this game? In my opinion, it's the best of the trilogy. When I finished playing 2, I wanted to reboot it and start it all over again. it's just yeah, everything works so well. The story, the characters, it all melts perfectly together. The gameplay is fun and engaging. I think it is yeah definitely the best, as I've repeatedly stated, the best out of the three, but just a solid game in itself as well. I honestly couldn't agree with you more there. I feel as if this is a sequel done right for gaming. that It takes the basis of a game that came out in 2007, which makes me feel old, but let's not go there. and let's And then this game came out in 2010. Of course, as I was recording this episode 14 years ago, which again, quite scary, but March of time and all that.
01:59:52
Speaker
quite interesting to see that even today people are still picking up this game, they are still going through it for the first time. I mean as you know I went through this semi-blind because I knew some of the twists but not all of them. For example I knew about the traffic lights at the end of 3, I knew that Sheper died at the beginning of this game but I didn't really know much else beyond that so there was a lot of surprises that I had in store for this game. And as I said I played the first game and I thought yeah it's so key but it never really encouraged me to go on to the next one because I rushed through it but because I took my time with the first one I explored as many planets as I could on the Mako. Yes I did. it was both a blessing and a curse I have to say, but the fact is it paid off because you got those lovely emails from people thanking you, like from the colony of Zoo's Hope and even the guy who was a very inconsequential initially, or you thought he was inconsequential, but the guy who wanted his wife's body back from the Alliance because they wanted to study it and
02:01:00
Speaker
That one kind of broke me as well because he tells you about how he basically opened a restaurant with his wife's picture up above and he would let Alliance soldiers eat for free and things. And I just think these are things that they didn't have to add to this game. They could have easily tunnel visioned it to, you're a big bad guy with very attractive men on your ship and you're gonna blow up the Reapers, but they brought this absolute emotional core to it that think is honestly incredible. That's why I love this series. You can see it the most in two, but just the attention to detail. There is, for example, like the scanning missions, every single planet has a bio and it's just so interesting. They could have just said random planet, but no, this is the makeup of this planet. This planet has breathable atmosphere and it's just, I do have to say, I think you're the only person who reads those emails completely start to finish. I've personally skim read them. Oh no, I had to read each one after this. What I actually loved as well was you get spam emails asking to extend appendages and whatnot and things. And obviously the other one, it was like a scam email about buying Prothean technology. I thought that was just absolutely brilliant. And I didn't realise you only get this one if you romance Caden because I thought he would send one anyway. But if you romance Caden, Caden afterwards sends you an email apologizing in an email and it's just like the lamest thing ever. Because like this time when I romanced Liara, I did not get the email either. He basically just apologizes to you in an email and it's just like, no, at least give me a phone call. That's the most space Canadian thing you could have done. Yeah.
02:02:43
Speaker
Graham's Space Canadians. One thing that I found really interesting, and it's one we briefly touched on, but the Shadow Broker DLC I think is absolutely incredible. I think it's probably one of the better ones. Out of the three, and it makes you feel like you're in an action film where you're on Ilium and you have to like weave in and out of traffic and things, although granted I nearly crashed more than I care to admit in that one. Yeah, I can't drive in-game or in real life. I do like that, but I think the majority of the loyalty missions have cutscenes and cutscenes integrated into them, which one did not really have. One had cutscenes, but they weren't as in-depth. And with Illium, when you're on Illium, you can really feel the scope of Ilium where you chase people through the city and you get to be in different parts. And yeah, I do like the start of that DLC where Liara goes missing and you're investigating her apartment and you go from different parts of Ilium. It does make it feel less boxed in. you get a lot of really good set pieces from, as you said, Liara's apartment, which has a very, and again, this is very, very nitpicky, but she's got a degree from an Asari University and it's in English and you're like but again It's not a deal breaker, I'm like oh that's it, it's unplayable. You get the Shadow Broker ship, which I absolutely adore. I think that's one of the coolest things where you're on the outside of it and you have to fight your way through. You get the yarg, I think the yarg or the yarg. A big beastie that you have to shoot in the face. You get all of this codex lore and things, and after that I was reading through every single one, especially with Tally and her download browser history. I was joking about that, but you do actually get to see she downloads things like Fleets and Flowtowers, the movie, where it's like a turian and a quarian falling in love. Yeah, I mean, do you know this that if you don't romance Scaris or Tally? They get together, yeah. I wouldn't be able to see that that, that would break my heart. Yeah, same, same. But I do love those details. You look at Garris', you get the different songs he listens to while shooting people and it's just, I just love that, that while we're fighting for our lives, he's just jamming out and shooting people between the eye. it just reminds me of that ad that people have done of it's like the deep space marine voice but it's singing the Elton John's I'm Still Standing so it's like there's a gory you know battle going on and you just hear I'm still sick and I just imagine someone like Garris would even grunt go to hell with that. That is honestly just such a good DLC though. Another shadow broker easter egg that I like is that in Miranda's file, you read that it's impossible for her to have kids, which is also a heartbreaking thing, especially if you're someone who wants kids, but it also makes you think is that the reason her and Jacob didn't work out because Jacob really does want kids and it's just another layer to it. And then my another ultimate favorite one is when you look through the vids of the little surveillance videos and you get to the one in the Citadel and you you see the reporter being punched in the face. It is my favourite running gag of the game. I play Paragon, but I punch her in the face every single fucking time. I feel as if I'm the only player who doesn't punch her in the face. Which is why I say you haven't played Mass Effect properly. Exactly. But I did laugh at that, I have to say, when I look through the video, it's like the krogan just launching her across the room. I thought, okay, that is pretty funny. And even the volus. kicks her in the shin and whatnot. I thought, okay that is really, really funny. But no, I totally agree with you. I think that you get to see both the kind of funny side of the characters, but you also get to see that very vulnerable side of them and it really flushes them out. Again, they didn't have to do that. They didn't have to that story that they did and it rewards players for wanting to know more about the characters. But one of my favourites, just as a closing point though, one of my favourite emails that The Shadow Broker has is from an ad mineral who's like, I don't trust Sheppard because he's working for Cerberus, blah, blah, blah. Can you grant me authority to bring him in? It's this huge War and Peace paragraph And you get an email from Admiral Hackett and he's like, dear so-and-so, no, kind of guards, Admiral Hackett. And I was like, I was honestly clapping at that moment thinking Admiral Hackett, you absolute, honestly, he is the companion character that you never get, but he is your ride or die when it comes to the alliance between him and Anderson. They're both just such great characters because he never really appears until, you know, important moments. And even then when he appears, you're just so happy to see him.
02:07:24
Speaker
Yeah, I think in one, he doesn't even have a face. He's just a voice. I don't think you actually see the character in one. I don't even know if he has a voice. You don't see him, but... No, in one, Hackett is the one who sends you to the moon. Oh, of course, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so, yeah, Hackett always checks in on you in one and goes like, do this for me, do that for me. You're our alliance, after all. Yeah, it's got a very cool voice as well, I have to say. I mean, the acting in this entire game is top-notch. I have such high respect to voice actors. Obviously, I've got a favourite voice among. Oh, of course. Among the cast. I mean, I have to say the amount of star power that you've got here. Of course, you've got Mark Mir as mail ship and you've got Jennifer Hale as femship. I think they both do absolutely fantastic. And what I really love as well is the fact they feel a lot more comfortable in this one. So I feel as if in the first one, I kind of in that awkward phase of, oh, I'm in a sci-fi game. Let's see where this goes. I don't know. think they do a good job on the first one, but I feel as if in the second one, this is where they really start to shine. As you said, there's just so many. There's Steve Bloom as Grund, Keith David as Anderson, again, absolutely fantastic. You've got Seth Green as Joker, Michael Beatty as Mordin, Martin Sheen as the elusive man, Which is fantastic. It's such a good performance. Honestly, because many ages lost in the mohawk, they are all absolutely fantastic. Shout out to Brandon Keener for goddesses. So Aria, who is the purple asari that runs Omega, do you know that she is voiced by Karian Moss? I cannot believe that. That blew my mind. Yeah, I did not know that. Jane, you were going to read that. I was like, no, surely not. that was like oh my god they are all absolutely brilliant you know they do a fantastic job throughout the entire game and yeah i just want to say if you haven't played Mass Effect 2 well play the first one first of all come on genuinely i feel as if playing Mass Effect 2 after playing the first one was so rewarding because don't get me wrong Mass Effect 1 has its issues, its pitfalls. Mass Effect 2 does as well but at the same time I feel as if if you play through 1-3 in the consecutive play through then you get a lot more out of it honestly.
02:09:45
Speaker
I cannot praise this game high enough before. I was like, I don't know if this is going to be my cup of tea and now I'm reading the comics. I'm tempted to buy the books as well to read them and do reviews on them. Honestly, I'm a huge Mass Effect nerd and it's all thanks to the indoctrination of yourself, Marie and Dan. So yeah, thank you so much for that. I honestly, I'm so happy I bullied you into playing it. But it was just so fun to see you go through these games in real time. It was like almost experiencing them for the first time myself. And until you went down, I didn't get to geek out as much about Mass Effect. So it's nice that I have that in my circle now, where I could post a Garris gif and people don't go, who the fuck is that? Like who's the weird pinecone looking guy? I'm just like, Oh, that is the worst, isn't it? When they don't even get it right and you're like, oh okay, I'm back to soldiering again.
02:10:40
Speaker
Yeah. Oh no, it's been absolutely fantastic, both discussing our plans for this month as well as discussing the games, discussing our love for the games. You've got a longer term love for this game right enough than I have, but... I get depressed thinking of how much I love a fictional alien. I mean, I get depressed of it when I think about the fact that he's not real. No one can ever live up to Garris. He's the love of my life. But seeing that note and... I was going to say as we get you onto space tinder for Garris Likes, as it were. Miri, thank you so, so much for, well, not only helping me fight against the podcast promoters that are clearly out there in space, but also reviewing this game that we both love and yeah, getting to geek out about it. Thank you for having me. This was an absolute delight and yeah, hopefully I did not go overboard too much on the Garris love, but
02:11:36
Speaker
do you know there'll be a listener out there who'll be like yep we've got t-shirts we've got a fan club oh yeah i know i'm not the only one with this opinion he is beloved but before we wrap up um where can these lovely listeners find your content So I've got a podcast called Two Girls One Reasonable Cup, which is all about living a low waste lifestyle in your twenties. We cover a variety of topics from fashion to smartphones. And the whole idea of the podcast is what we as consumers can do to help the planet. And on top of that, you can find me on my social media, which is Life on Mars or on my podcast social media, which is Two Girls One Reasonable Cup. We are both on Twitter and Instagram. I think that's it. I was going to say, are you not going to plug your Garris fan blog or anything there? I'll keep that private for now and until the podcast takes off, I know. If you see a username called TheFutureMrsVacarian, then... Do you know how little that narrows it down?
02:12:42
Speaker
But yeah, if you want to check out more episodes from ourselves, where I've actually interviewed Marie for her podcast Two Heroes One Reusable Cup, as well as all of our Mass Effect episodes coming up, then you can check us out at our website, Chatsanami.com, as well as all good podcast apps. I also want to thank our amazing Pandora patrons for supporting us, Robotic Battle Toaster and Sonya. Once again, thank you so, so much for supporting the show. And if you would like exclusive content and early access to our episodes, then you can check us out on our Patreon, patreon.com forward slash chat tsunami. And just as a final point, I just want to give a huge shout out to the Podpack Collective, which you and I, of course, Miri, we are a part of. and where we have a bunch of absolutely amazing indie podcasts involved, so if you want to learn more about that then you can check out our handle at twitter slash x at Podpack Collect. We're also on Instagram as well, but mainly twitter slash x. i'll get Instagram going, don't worry. Yeah, yeah we'll but we'll get there. But until next time, thank you y all so so much for listening to this episode. Stay safe, stay awesome, stay hydrated and most importantly for the love of God, to do not romance Garris because I will never hear the end of it from Marie.