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Vision Quest (1985) Review (feat. Austin) - Ep8 - Archaic Wrestling
83 Plays1 year ago
We had to do it... Pleased to be joined by Austin from Changing Levels Podcast!
Music by Josh Kasen
Twitter: @ArchaicWrestle
ArchaicWrestling@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction & Content Notice
00:00:01
Speaker
Hey folks, just jumping in here real quick with a little content notice, there will be some mention of sexual assault in this episode.
00:00:29
Speaker
What's up, folks? Welcome back to Archaic Wrestling. I am Evan, and as always, I am joined by the meat to my potatoes, the yang to my yang, the sun calloused to my skin cancer, Sasha. How's it going? Sorry, I just realized you were leading me in. You're OK. How's it going, everybody? I'm sun calloused up, man.
00:00:58
Speaker
Uh, we are, it's going to be an exciting
Excitement for 'Vision Quest'
00:01:00
Speaker
podcast. I think this is a, this can be a podcast that is a long time coming, um, for, for the wrestling community, not for our, not for archaic wrestling specifically, but for the wrestling community, they need to hear this podcast. Um, because we are going to be covering the quintessential wrestling film vision quest and we couldn't do it alone, Sasha. Uh, we are, we are very generously joined.
00:01:25
Speaker
by one of the indie darlings of the wrestling podcast world, Austin. How you doing Austin? Oh, I'm doing great. It's a pleasure to be here. And yeah, I'm just, I'm really excited. I haven't done a podcast in a while. So it's kind of like those first game jitters, you know, so excited. Hey, you know what? We keep it relaxed around here as any listener would know or be disappointed by.
00:01:52
Speaker
but that's fine too. So we're gonna be covering Vision Quest. And I don't know fellas, I was thinking about this. This is the film that
First Impressions of 'Vision Quest'
00:02:00
Speaker
a lot of wrestlers like to call their favorite wrestling movie. And I think that's mostly because it's like was for a long time the only wrestling movie that was truly like well known or massively put out into the zeitgeist. But for both of you,
00:02:17
Speaker
where were you when you first watched vision quest? Like how old were you? Like what? Where were you in life? I think I was I think I was like 1717 or 18. I think it was like my birthday. And I planned a day I watched like Iowa versus Oklahoma State. And then later in the day I watched vision quest for the first time. You know, looking back on it, I believe
00:02:45
Speaker
It was like a junior high sleepover type situation. And I think the older guys always hyped Vision Quest up as the movie, oh, man, we got to watch Vision Quest. It's so badass. We got to do this and do that. And what's all just planned. And I think I was one of the younger kids on the team that showed up and put this thing on. And obviously, as a young wrestler, where you're just ate up with it, it changes your life in that moment.
00:03:14
Speaker
It's just got so many iconic wrestling things in it that You know, how could you
Wrestling Culture and Weight Cutting
00:03:20
Speaker
not love it initially? I think I can only Agree with both of you. Yeah, I saw it like yeah probably around 16 17 years old I remember watching it and I don't know like trying to I don't remember fully how I felt about it, but I do remember that you know, I was very into the whole like
00:03:42
Speaker
mental toughness, weight cutting thing. Um, you know, that was very like a big part of my personality and like, you know, how I was trying to present myself. Right. So, and I was cutting a lot of weight, especially in my senior year, um, when I started to, and I was just wondering if either of you ever like had a really tough weight cut. Oh yeah. Absolutely. My only, uh, my only appearance at California state was, um, after cutting from like one 15 all year.
00:04:10
Speaker
Uh, I got beat up pretty bad by a guy who was like number 10 at one Oh eight. And he was, he was wrestling up at one 15. And then I remember after that, my, my coach and I talked and I went down to one Oh eight and I had about like two weeks to do it. Uh, and it was pretty, yeah, it was pretty miserable. It was, it was very much, uh, it was very similar. Yeah. I, uh, I think the toughest cut I can recall, um, senior year that first cut down.
00:04:40
Speaker
I was trying to get down to certify and I just remember going through hell, kind of wearing plastics and going on those extra workouts and even getting to a point kind of like Loudon where you're just like, I'm not sure this is worth it. You get to kind of that breaking point. So that always is the one that kind of sticks out in my mind. I was going from like, I was trying to make 135 and I think I got to that 140 point. I was coming probably from 155.
00:05:10
Speaker
was what I maxed out at and I'd kind of ballooned up a little bit too much over the summer, you know, and trying to get down. But yeah, once I hit that 140, I was hurt. And then eventually I made it. But, you know, I had to do it the hard way. Yeah, I was. Yeah, I was cutting from this was later, obviously, than when this film would have been a little bit more of an influence. But I remember I was cutting in college down to 49.
00:05:40
Speaker
And I was weighing like 173. It was really bad, really bad cut. Um, and I probably got to like 52 and like nothing came off anymore. And it was, you know, it was like a couple of days before weigh ins and yeah, nothing was coming off. And I was like in panic mode and I called my dad. Uh, and you know, it had always been, you know, I just run
Realism in 'Vision Quest'
00:06:00
Speaker
and run and run and wrestle, wrestle, wrestle, do whatever you can, sweat it out.
00:06:04
Speaker
And I did eventually make that wait, but yeah, it was like I was in panic mode. It was like really distressing for me It didn't it didn't look as as glamorous as loud and makes it look but that's interesting you say you had Plast did you have like legit plastics or did you use did you were you a garbage bag in it? I did both I did whatever I had to do I remember cutting holes and trash bags and but I did you know you could buy a sauna suit at Walmart Yeah, you know so of course we did
00:06:34
Speaker
You know what I mean? I was wearing it under my clothes during PE, you know, wringing it out before practice and then, you know, hiding it in my locker and trying to, you know, not get caught with it. As if anybody would actually do anything about it, probably. I don't know. My coach, he was very much a rule follower, so he didn't let us get away with stuff like that.
00:06:59
Speaker
He would have turned us in. I had like a recent experience, uh, cutting for like a BJJ tournament where I, I promised myself I would get down to this weight that I can. Cause I was a little bit chubby and I, I never, I didn't do anything about it. And then I had to cut like seven pounds day of, or like day before.
Cultural Impact & Humor
00:07:20
Speaker
And, uh, the, the owner of the gym, he was like, Oh, I got like this, uh, plastic suit. He like pulled it out. He was like, I got this. Do you need it? And I was like,
00:07:28
Speaker
Those are like illegal now, man. You can't be happy. They got rid of those. They like killed like three guys. He was like, oh, well, I've had it for a while. Didn't realize that was the situation. Well, let's get into it. So Vision Quest, we're doing it. We're doing Vision Quest. And I guess the first thing I noticed is I totally didn't know or didn't recognize initially that this is based off an actual novel by a guy named Terry Davis. I don't know if either of you read it, have you?
00:07:58
Speaker
I have not. No, not me either. Maybe we will. I mean, some of the stuff in the movie, like it sounds like it came might have come from the book and that might explain why it doesn't work. Because, yeah, I'm curious, like where he was really going with it in the book, because I don't I don't know what's going on with this film.
00:08:16
Speaker
Um, but it takes place in Spokane, Washington. Um, and you know, the very first scene starts with jumping rope and Loudon's like, hi, I'm Loudon. Um, this year I make my mark. And this is also the first moment where Loudon is, uh, wants it to be very clear that he is 18. Yes. Um, is he 18?
00:08:38
Speaker
Does it say that?
Character Dynamics & Relationships
00:08:40
Speaker
I guess I missed that. He says it several times throughout the film. He wants people to know that he is 18. Well, I think that does film. I think it's good for the film to have problems later on if he was thinking. OK, so that that clears up a lot of some of the issues. I was like. It doesn't get into it really. I mean, at least one, at least one.
00:09:08
Speaker
But so the film starts. It's a wrestling practice. Look at that. We got Matthew Modine playing Loudon. We got Kuch, who's played by Michael Schufling, I believe is pronounced. And that's the love interest Jake Ryan from Sixteen Candles. So Kuch the heartthrob going on here. You have the the iconic coach with the polo under his singlet. And it's the same actor from The Thing. And I don't remember his name off the top of my head.
00:09:39
Speaker
I think his name is also Michael and we got Forest Whitaker hanging out in the background. Yeah. One of, one of several pointless characters in this film. Uh, but I don't know. How'd you guys feel when you saw this wrestling room? I was like, damn, I wish I had a wrestling room that nice. Uh, yeah, that's a great room. Honestly, the brick and the, you know, I'm not a fan of red, but I, you know, the mats look good. You know, it just looks like a nice setup for them.
00:10:05
Speaker
You know, some schools don't have great setups or practicing cafeterias and stuff. So, you know, that's a high quality room. Yeah. You have your own wrestling room, especially at a high school. That's real nice. It's real lucky. Uh, I mean, some folks maybe don't understand that, but it's pretty cool. Um, and then we're, we're, we're here with Loudon and the whole team. And I got to say, I love the drip.
00:10:29
Speaker
And no one is wearing the same thing No, I come from an era where it is just t-shirts and shorts for the most part And I think we're getting a lot more, you know compression stuff in the modern era these days But you know back in the 70s, I think this is taking place in the 70s or so They were they were in crop tops real cute cute crop tops very cute warmers. They had it going on so there's a lot going on here and I have no idea if this is a
00:10:58
Speaker
an accurate depiction of wrestling attire back then, but it stands out to me. Yeah, you know, I'm not sure either, but it has so much iconic stuff just in this like little bit. The coach with the polo on, if you are a wrestler and you see a coach with a polo and a single on, you know where that's from. You know, you can envision it in your head because we've all seen it and it's so iconic to me. It's like every wrestler's
00:11:28
Speaker
you know, Halloween costume at some point, you know, it's just it's great. You know, it's so it's it's top tier comedy right there. I mean, I think he sells it, too. You know, he does whistle, you know, the man, the hat, too. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But yeah, so this is the scene right away. They're they're loud and ready to announce that he's dropping down to 168.
00:11:51
Speaker
And he's gonna wrestle wrestle shoot off get because he dropped some weight already. So he's already down a weight class And his teammates are really annoyed by this And I don't know fellas Do you relate to his teammates at all here because I think everyone is overreacting just a little bit. It's it's odd It's like the later the context, you know of the movie it gets into that. They're like I mean, of course, they have like 40 kids in this wrestling room and
00:12:21
Speaker
Um, so you would think, you know, if you're like an actual wrestler, you look at that, like, this must be a very successful program. But you're like, Hey, it's a movie. They're trying to make it look good. But later in the, later in the movie, they specify that it's like the third best team in Washington. And you're like, that doesn't compute with everything else that's going on here, especially with the coach. But, uh, I remember the, the, the year that I cut down, uh, to make it to one to wait, I remember I had to wrestle off.
00:12:49
Speaker
uh, one of my teammates and my coach had me keep it secret the whole time I was doing it. And then it was just like out of practice. And then he was like, all right, there's a wrestle off like Hugh and him. And he just was like, in retrospect, maybe it wasn't the nicest thing ever. He was like extremely confused. All of a sudden had a wrestle off. Uh, and then I beat him and then he like ran into our closet and cried and was just like, why is this happening?
00:13:16
Speaker
So maybe there's a bit of... I feel for him, honestly, because their reaction tells you everything you need to know about Loudon, that he is a dude. And they're like, shit, I don't have a spot anymore. Because they're just like, I can't beat him. He's a 190 pounder freak athlete that's been wrestling for a year, coming down to my weight class. And I'm small. You know, it's like, fuck, what am I going to do? So yeah, I feel for it. It never happened to me personally, but
00:13:45
Speaker
Feel for him there, you know, that's gonna be a tough situation Well loud and takes care of business. He throws coach with an over-under And we get it. We actually get a pretty Realistic look of like what it looks like when someone's trying to pin somebody And it gets like really intimate like you're you know, your face is grinding each other and stuff I don't know. How'd you guys feel about this first kind of depiction of wrestling? Let's go. Let's get a nice lat drop. I
00:14:15
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, just kind of overall for the movie, I feel like the wrestling is way better than I remember it. You know, I think a lot of times wrestling is, it's obviously such a hard thing to portray for us looking in, you know, at it. But like, it felt pretty good going back to it. And that lat drop is great. That pinning sequence is great. It really kind of shows that kind of fight down there.
00:14:44
Speaker
I thought that was, I thought it was awesome. And, um, yeah, just, yeah, great shots. Cool. Cool. So Loudon, you know, he's in, he's in weight cutting mode and he's got a job too. Um, impressive, which by the way, like I didn't, I didn't have to have a job when I was, when I was, you know, wrestling. And I think this is kind of the first, uh, inkling of there's like some class themes once again, going on here where Loudon has to work, uh, to help with the family dad, you know, is, is, you know,
00:15:13
Speaker
It sounds like employment has been a moment of stress for them. You know, they used to have a farm it sounds like right so this is kind of An influence on the film I think right now just the fact that he has to have a job here but you know, he runs to job and It's at a hotel. He basically plays like a room service person, right? And he's got a pretty strong relationship with the hotel chef named Elmo
00:15:42
Speaker
Um, and, and the, you know, movie introduces Elmo. They just give him some food. He's taken it to someone's room and we get a nice little gay scare, uh, quintessential eighties gay scare here. Um, and we got a, we got a gentleman doing some Tai Chi in his room and Loudon's delivering him a burger or something. And, uh, Loudon's very curious about the Tai Chi. Did either of you ever do Tai Chi or try it or play with that? No, I have not. No.
00:16:10
Speaker
Uh, my dad was really into, um, a lot of, uh, like Eastern stuff, you know, he did a lot of karate and stuff. So there was definitely moments where, you know, it was like eighth grade, we're going to get up at 4am to go work out together and do stuff and get you ready for high school stuff. Right. And we definitely did Tai Chi at like 5am at one, like once or twice. Um, but I think we, without much, we didn't say much.
00:16:34
Speaker
about it afterwards. We just kind of both agreed that we're not going to do that anymore. It wasn't super productive. But hey, you know, it's great for old people. I think it's a good habit to take up. But we also get the quote here of 80 million Chinese can't be wrong. 800 million. Excuse me. Yeah, you're at 800 million Chinese can't be wrong.
00:16:59
Speaker
And Loudon makes sure to let this guy know that he's on a 600 calorie a day diet, which that sounds really drastic to me, especially for as long as he's gonna be on that. It's no wonder he starts to develop some health problems. Yeah, I love, okay. Initially, I forgot this movie's rated R. Did you guys realize that? Yeah, I think it has to be. I forgot.
00:17:29
Speaker
And then eight minutes in, Loudon's getting sexually assaulted in a hotel room. I'm like, makes sense now. Yeah, this guy cops a feel. And Loudon's like, hey, I think I go. The guy is like trying to demonstrate Tai Chi or have Loudon try and he's touching him. Right. And yeah, Loudon's like, I think I got it. And he makes, you know, a pretty quick exit.
00:17:50
Speaker
But, like, what a choice! What a choice for that to be the first, like, real scene, other- well, not first scene, but, like, the second scene in your movie of, like, and the main character of our film will be sexually assaulted, and it'll generally just brush it off.
00:18:05
Speaker
And that's going to be a theme in this film. Right. A lot of brushing off. And notice immediately he goes in the hallway and does push ups. Yeah. He's like, I just got he just grabbed my dick. I got to go. I got to pump out. Yeah, I don't happen to my masculinity at that moment. Yeah, my notes, I'm creepy guy doing gay stuff loud and does push ups to get the gay out of him. He pushes the game away.
00:18:33
Speaker
And this is not gonna be the last time that we're gonna touch on this. And it happens a lot more than I remember, just like these little asides, these little things that Loudon says throughout the film. So Loudon's done with work, I guess, it was a real short shift, he's heading home. And really my favorite character in the film is Cooch, I love Cooch. He is just, his character development in this film is my favorite thing, it is so funny to me.
00:19:02
Speaker
Um, but cooch has got his, got his motorcycle with Indian power on the, on it. And, and, and cooch, you know what, you know, got to give him credit. He just said, he admits to loud, Hey, you know, I could, I could never beat you loud and, you know, the shit man, I couldn't beat you. Right. Um, and I don't know, how do you guys feel about cooch as a character? I think he's, he's, he's pretty fun. I mean, I think like the.
00:19:31
Speaker
The parts of this movie that work for me are like the parts where it differs from most other sports movies where it's like, you know, there's like class elements to it. There's, you know, they talk about like child abuse and like just things where they talk about like the actual why people do sports and like what they're searching for. So I think like he is, yeah, his character development and like what we like learn about him later in the film.
00:20:00
Speaker
and his own search for identity. I think that's one of the parts of the movies that work. Yeah, absolutely. Cooch, awesome name. Let's just start there.
00:20:13
Speaker
Cooch, you know, that's on his mother's side. Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah. You know, you know, everybody, every every kid when they're watching this with their buddies, like here's the name Cooch and they all just like look at each other, you know, they just give each other that look. And there's like pandemonium. I'm sure somebody becomes Cooch for like a week. You know, they start calling each other that it, you know, it's a great character. And he's part Indian.
00:20:43
Speaker
You know, representing for the natives, kind of. He's got a sick mohawk. I got a sick mohawk. Where's the vest? You know, it's awesome, really. Yeah, he feels very in place in Spokane, Washington. I'll say that, that's for sure.
00:21:02
Speaker
So Loudon tells Shute about his sexual assault. Shute's like, wow, that's wild, man. And then Loudon goes on to tell him about his plan, that he wants to wrestle, wrestle, shoot and, you know, and Cooch is like, what?
00:21:17
Speaker
What? The other guy with two O's in his name? You can't do that to me. But no, he's like, no. What? You're going to do that? You're going to go try to wrestle Kooch. He's a killer. He'll kill you, you know? And what's the quote? The quote is, his own father has to use a live wire to keep him from fucking the fireworks. Yes. Which makes no sense. Gentlemen, pteratoid. What is that imagery supposed to even mean? I can't even, I don't know what's happening.
00:21:46
Speaker
I'm gonna make I might date myself with this reference here, but you guys ever see the little Giants? Yeah, the little Giants, right so like Whatever that really like buff kid what that's like superstar on the like the other team or whatever like his dad the way he was like yelling at him and stuff and You know making him carry the fridge upstairs. I think That's what I imagine shoots dad to be
00:22:12
Speaker
like this crazy psycho and like making him carry those logs up the damn stairs. We'll get there eventually, but. Could be like Carrie Collette's dad. And you know, yeah, exactly. That's probably a better reference. Carrie Collette said, can you imagine, this is before the internet, can you imagine the crazy stories that are going around about shoot down to town, team to team, like, oh yeah, I heard that he
00:22:37
Speaker
He eats 85 chickens a day and his dad rubs him down with baby oil every night. You know, just crazy shit. People just make up for like telephone. Liver King's his uncle. But yeah, so Loudon, Loudon doesn't want anybody to know about his plan to go down and wrestle, wrestle shoot. I guess he's, you know, he, he wants to be able to control when he comes out. Um, and so Cooch, uh, immediately spreads the secret to everybody.
00:23:07
Speaker
Um, which, you know, I wonder is a metaphor for Loudon's sexuality. Possibly. I'm not sure it's possible. Um, and the next scene they're in the school cafeteria, you know, shoot a spread the team, the word, um, that one of his teammates auto is very angry. Um, and the teammates are still also very angry with Loudon that he's going down even further.
00:23:32
Speaker
And we also get introduced to a the the most useless character in the film and that's Margie Who's Loudon's friend and she's very excited about his academic performance She's really into him. It seems in fact later in the movie she reveals that but Margie has no no There's there is no reason for Margie to be in this film like she does nothing. It is a wasted character. Yeah
00:23:57
Speaker
I'm sure we'll hit on that here in a few because you're in like a couple scenes obviously she does what she does but This whole cafeteria seems great because he's like he had told Cooch to kind of keep it on the DL a little bit and of course It's on the announcements the next day. Can you imagine that at your school someone doing that over the announcements about wrestling especially?
00:24:22
Speaker
And then, yeah, I mean, I guess they care. That's nice. But we also meet Mr. Tannerann, I think it's Tannerann, who's playing basketball. He's the English teacher. And I just got to ask, why does this school care so much about what Loudon is doing? The Tannerann already knows, oh, sounds like you're doing a thing, Loudon. It's like, why does anyone care? No one cared what any of the wrestlers were doing at any school that I remember.
00:24:49
Speaker
How big is this school? Is it ever, do they ever kind of imply? I don't think so. Is it like a small town thing? Yeah, I guess, but you would think they might have multiple sports, right? It's large enough that the stands at the wrestling match is packed. Yeah. But that could be a small town thing. That's true. Like some high school matches in Iowa are some of those big sellouts are like 1A, 2A events out there.
00:25:16
Speaker
So it's possible that it's a small school. Maybe that's how things get around fast. But I don't know. I mean, it does. It does give off like smaller town vibes for sure. For sure. But yeah, then we we cut to wrestling practice and we got Otto doing the pegboard and the film really wants you to think the pegboard is hard. It really wants you to think that it's very impressive to complete the pegboard.
00:25:42
Speaker
Um, and I personally don't feel that way. I don't know about you guys. I don't know if you guys even had a pegboard. A lot of people never even actually experienced them. Yeah. I thought we had one, I think in junior high. Um, I don't think it ever really conquered very many people. I don't think it ever was even used. So, uh, you know, I don't, even after watching the movie, I don't think any of us were like, yeah, we're not getting on the pegboard. We had one in my like high school weight room, but.
00:26:12
Speaker
It was like, it didn't go up. It went like side to side. It went like up and then it went side to side and it was kind of just stuck on over a bunch of weights. So to even use it, you had to like finagle yourself into it and then peg around. I remember, I was always very interested in it before I ever saw a fishing class. I just always, I was always just like, I want to do that. I just want to do a bunch of pegboard for a while, but I never really got to.
00:26:41
Speaker
Um, well, so, and then in the middle of practice, like practice, are you going coach comes in late? Um, doesn't really give a shit that he came in late and the coach doesn't really seem to care that much either. Um, but okay. Uh, and he just sits down next to loud and starts talking to him while the coach is trying to teach something. Um, but coaches like, Hey, last night I, I smoked a pipe with the ever spirit and he revealed to me that you're on a vision quest.
00:27:07
Speaker
And and he says you're trying to find your place in the circle dare. I say the wrestling circle But Cooch is letting them know that you know, he thinks he's on a special vision quest and that's why he's gonna support him through it And it's a very cute it's a it's a cute friendship these two these guys these guys seem pretty tight at least Cooch does I don't know if Loudon even cares about Cooch that much But Cooch seems to like just be a dude. He seems to want to be a good friend
00:27:35
Speaker
To me, they feel like in-season friends. They may not hang out that much outside of the wrestling season, because it seems like Loudon has to explain a couple things that if we were already tight, we should probably know. You know what I mean? So that always kind of threw me through a loop as far as how close they were. So I think they're that low key. They're partners of practice, and they hang out during the season. Tight beat. Gotcha.
00:28:06
Speaker
And then so Loudon who's got to run home, you know, that's how he does it and runs home And he he's going by the the mechanics where his dad apparently works And this we get introduced to Carla played by Linda Fiorentino, you know, she's from like Dogma she was in dogma. She's been some other stuff, you know, she's been hearing here and there a lot of people in this scene there they the director really wanted there to be a lot of nipple action going on with Carla here and
00:28:36
Speaker
It was a very conscious choice, it seems to me. But Loudon's dad has punched a dude who apparently sold Carla a lemon. Carla is making a little bit of a scene, I guess. And Loudon's dad is getting fired here. He's very dedicated to the principle of the matter here. That man should not have sold her a lemon, so it was worth losing his job to punch him.
00:29:05
Speaker
wants to talk with Carla about wrestling and Carla really does not care. Loudon is like, I'm Loudon, I'm 18 and I do wrestling and this is how I sweat out lots of water. And Carla's like, that's nice kid, which is the correct response. Yeah. My notes here, especially when Carla first shows up,
00:29:26
Speaker
It says white tank top comma, no bra comma, Loudon is now in love. Yeah, he basically loses his motive. Like this is his descent of like, he just, the movie just started. And then right after this scene is when he starts caring less and less about actually wrestling shooting. Like it basically takes him seeing like one hot woman to just decide. I don't know if I want to do this or if I want to,
00:29:56
Speaker
Yeah, this woman flies in from the magical land of New Jersey to, you know, make him make him a man, really, right? And she's on her way to San Francisco. She stumbled her way to Spokane, Washington on the way. And Loudon lets her know that he would like to be an outer space doctor. And this is like the first thing where I'm like, God, Loudon is such a frickin dork. Matthew Modena is a dude.
00:30:22
Speaker
He's great. He just plays that dork. He just gets it. He is a jacked, tall, good looking. And he sells, I would believe it in a minute that that dude is a dork. I'd be like, get a load of this guy. You know what I mean? It's awesome. Yeah. I get the first glimpse of his obsession with
00:30:45
Speaker
This is one of the weirder part. It gets so much worse later, but his obsession with anatomy and biology, and it goes from outer space to gynecology extremely quick. Yeah, yeah.
00:31:02
Speaker
Um, well, and so they're, they have this diner scene, right? Um, and once again, Loudon says I'm 18, by the way, he wants it to be very clear that he's 18, but this is also right. He says it's like three days past draft or something like that. He mentions the draft. Right. And, uh, which kind of centers where this movie is taking place. I think that kind of echoes some of the class stuff, right? Like the fact that he's mentioning that, you know, he could have been drafted kind of thing. Right. And maybe that's why he like, you know, is kind of obsessed with
00:31:31
Speaker
Not that well, that's the thing. The movie seems to be more about Loudon's obsession with with his manlihood and masculinity and becoming something. Right. But then it also wants to talk about like it's about living like there's no tomorrow, which is is just more of like something that's played lip service to I feel like because it really undercuts it with the rest of the movie, that theme that the movie wants you to think it's about. I don't think it is. But yeah, he's sorry. He's he he says I'm 18.
00:32:01
Speaker
I, you know, it's past draft day. Um, I've, and, uh, Carla responds. I've been 21 since I was 14, which is a real creepy line. Um, maybe the most psychosexual movie that's ever been created. I mean, like it only gets worse and worse. It's, I mean, yeah, it's, I don't want to, I don't like, we'll wrap up, hit the wrap up, but it's, it's really just a movie about how like,
00:32:29
Speaker
in life you can like be happy and have sex or you can accomplish feats of you can accomplish incredible things or you can just like kind of chill and just be a guy that has sex so like there's one there's only two you can't be you can't be either one and and Loudon gets both but yeah dad comes in dad comes in he's like I got fired oh well I'll get another job and and Loudon said oh shit dad
00:32:59
Speaker
She's got no place to go. What if we let her stay with her? And dad very responsibly responds, just so you know, she is her own person. But then the movie just ignores that. She's not some lost puppy, son. Yeah. Do not force yourself on her. Alone's dad seems like a great guy, but maybe not spending enough time with him for any of his, like, his values to rub off on him.
00:33:30
Speaker
This is one of the parts of the movie for me that I think was written by a horny teenage boy Where it's like oh my god mom left
00:33:42
Speaker
Dad, how cool would it be, dad, if some hot chick came in? Please. He gets to stay in my room. Oh, you want to see my. Yeah, this is my room. Don't worry. I spend time in the basement anyway. Oh, those trophies. Those are just, you know, I guess I'm just a little bit of a natural since I just started wrestling a year ago. You know, it's mostly about my balance. I just got such good balance, my kinesthetic awareness. And he bore. He's saying this to Carla as he as they show her where she's going to be sleeping.
00:34:11
Speaker
and he bores her to sleep. And then he stares at her like a creep after she falls asleep and tell his dad has to come in and say, hey Loudon, let's act like a regular human being for a minute here, man. And he looks at her and he's like, she fell asleep. And he's like, yeah, that's what people do. People go to sleep. Like, leave her alone and she'll go to sleep. Let's let her sleep then, Loudon, if she's asleep. Son, are you hard right now? Get out of this room.
00:34:41
Speaker
Son, it looks like you're experiencing an involuntary erection. You know, that's, that's normal for your age, but you're going to need to, we're going to do that somewhere else. But dad, this is my room. You're in the basement now, son. Uh, so then we, and by the way, in between all of these scenes are essentially just, it cuts to journey and loud and running.
00:35:07
Speaker
Yes, constantly it's like lunatic fridge loud and running somewhere. That's the way they transition in between scenes in this movie Because otherwise you go from loud and staring at this this woman to him arm wrestling chef Elmo And this is where they first say hey, there's no tomorrow kid Elmo says that to him and Elmo appears to be just this weird father uncle figure to him They got an interesting relationship
00:35:37
Speaker
And that's a very short scene. He just arm wrestles them. And they say, there's no tomorrow, kid. That's about it. And then Kuch comes to help Loudon pace him on his way home. But Loudon convinces him to let him get a ride home so he can get home faster, because there's something at home that he wants to go check out. But to Loudon's slight dismay, it seems like. And I think, Austin, you're right. This is where you get some vibes of like, does Loudon even
00:36:06
Speaker
you know, hang out with Cooch that much, really. And Cooch just invites himself in. He's like, hey, I could go for a beer, right? And, you know, they're 18, so they're allowed to drink beer, right? They're allowed to actually go to the bars and stuff at this time during Vietnam. And so Loudon lets him in after a little bit of, you know, trying to say, oh, no, can't do that. And Carla just walks into the room with these high school boys in her underwear, into the kitchen.
00:36:36
Speaker
Um, and this is where we get Cooch's line. Cooch is my white name. Uh, my Indian name is Swift elk. Uh, and he's half Indian on his mother's side. Uh, and Carla just looks at him like, Oh, okay, dude. Um, and walks out. And yeah, this is just a weird scene. Like, what are you doing, Carla? How does Carla not feel uncomfortable? She feels very at home very quickly. And I don't understand why. Yeah. They, they play hurt. Like the way they play the whole thing throughout the movie is like,
00:37:06
Speaker
Loud and being gross and creepy and her just being like, hey, you know, it's kind of gross and creepy, but also like I'm also a gross creep and I think it's cool. I'm actually enjoying it because I'm also a creep. Loud and stop. You know what I mean? That's it's very much loud and stop.
00:37:31
Speaker
Loudon, you need to just take a step back and do a little bit more listening and observing. That's right. Loudon gets up really early to train in the next scene, we get more journey. And Carla is making breakfast. And Carla reveals that she's going to San Francisco to be an artist. And dad comes in and Carla is, you know, trying to contribute. She made breakfast for them. She doesn't quite understand Loudon's situation that he can't be, you know, just chowing down because he's cut in weight.
00:38:00
Speaker
and they sit down and they kind of get on the the subject of his mother and I really think this brings in like You know, well, so his father reveals that she left with another man. He's very open about it Right and Loudon's pissed off about that. He's like, you know, are you proud of it or something? And his dad's like I'm not proud, you know, it just happens, you know that this is just part of life You know, it doesn't mean anything about me. I
00:38:28
Speaker
But Loudon like seems he this lack of a female presence in his life has not been good for him I think he sees his dad as being emasculated a little bit, you know, and I think Loudon has a real desire to control things and especially control like Femininity right because it's it's a little bit of an enigma to him, right? Yeah for sure I think
00:38:56
Speaker
A lot of that teenage angst comes out in this a little bit. He's a lot of hormones raging and masculinity huge at that time, huge in the wrestling community. So to him, seeing his father get emasculated like that, he takes deeply personal because he obviously looks up to his father. That's another big kind of relationship in this film that really anchors it down and makes it feel right in ways to me.
00:39:23
Speaker
I feel like there's a lot of that in the wrestling community where a lot of dads are looked up to that in that way. And so it just kind of anchors that down for me there. Um, they, they, he goes to school the next day and Cooch has already told everybody again, he spilled the beans. It's happening again. Um, and Loudon gets in a fight with auto in the parking lot. Coach breaks it up kind of another fight about nothing. Um, they just don't like Loudon, um, for whatever reason. Um, and, uh,
00:39:54
Speaker
Loudon and Cooch the very next scene is they've decided they're gonna go Check out check out shoot. Finally, we finally get to see shoot and it's a really iconic scene. It's it's a giant stadium I don't know where they're at and Cooch is just carrying a log up the stadium and this is a scene, you know, really quintessential everybody knows it and I think I didn't even to write down the quote really because it's very simple Loudon's like hey shoot
00:40:23
Speaker
And Cooch is like, careful, don't, don't poke the bear, you know? And Chute's like, who the fuck are you? I don't, do I know you? And Loudon, and Loudon is like, I'm Loudon Swain. And Chute's just like, oh, okay, by the way. So Chute, the most unproblematic character in this whole film. Like he just goes, oh, okay, you're cutting away. Hey, all right, well.
00:40:46
Speaker
See you then. I hope you make the wait too. What did you want out of shoot? When you make wait, we will wrestle. Oh, you wrestle. Me too. See you later. I'm working out. What are you doing? I'm getting better over here. Are you sweating a lot?
00:41:16
Speaker
Going back just like one scene earlier in the parking lot fight one of my favorite things in this in this movie The you know, obviously somebody goes for a takedown and one of their friends goes to take Like they start reffing the match obviously gets it gets broken up I didn't see him counting swipes but but yeah coming up on shoot man, like you said iconic how many colleges and
00:41:43
Speaker
have recreated this for a hype video or whatever. It's so iconic. The log, obviously that dude is not 168. Let's just be real. He was enormous. You get your first look at him and you see the threat. They set up the antagonist, at least the wrestling antagonist.
00:42:11
Speaker
It's, it's great. And he, like you said, he's just kind of like, yeah, I'm, I see it in and it's, it just works. It's perfect. Yeah. Like he's not even confrontational. He's just like, well, that's, that's cool, man. Sounds like your business. Uh, you got anything on this? I mean, this scene is so badass. It still goes so hard, but like, he kind of plays the role of like, like, uh, I don't know. He's like, like he exists outside of.
00:42:41
Speaker
You know, everyone else is like in high school and he's sort of, he's like, he's not a high school student. He's more of like a, like a force of nature. Like he exists so that, so that people can test themselves against him. It's somewhat like, like he's not a human anymore. He's not a human. Like he's like, you forget, you're like, even if the oldest he could possibly be is like old 18, right? But he's sort of occupies this space that is like,
00:43:09
Speaker
He's more than human. He's he's like a golem. He's like a colosse. Like he's like finding like Greek mythology of like, you know, this is a test for. Yeah. I think he's a nail on the head with the force of nature. Right. Just because he's it's a vision quest. Right. That's supposed to be it. Right. That's the metaphor. Yeah. And, you know, you go out in the woods and fucking come back a man kind of deal. And that's what shoot is. He is the nature. Right. He is the the the the
00:43:39
Speaker
Obstructing wall, right? I think this is one of the first times that we sense some doubt from Loudon. Yeah, because shoot asks him to goes, hey, you think you're going to make the way and Loudon doesn't say, yeah, he doesn't see. Absolutely. He says, I don't know. I hope so. Right. And I feel like that was on purpose.
00:44:02
Speaker
Right. I mean, yeah, that seems like something that you could just see. I hope so. I mean, yeah. I mean, but I feel like the way he said, he's like, I don't know. I hope so. And to me, it kind of introduces that doubt that might have been set up by Carla arriving and maybe just, you know, kind of sets, makes him a little bit deeper of a character where he's maybe starting to doubt himself a little bit and just kind of adds that in and makes, makes it more clear to me at least. I don't know how you guys felt about that, but. Oh yeah. I agree. Definitely.
00:44:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's pretty clear. Um, well, so got to get past the, the iconic scene and we get to the other iconic scene and he's back in the kitchen with Elmo. Um, and he's got out his biology book or his anatomy book and he's, and he's, you know, Elmo wants to see it and we get, that's coos, that's coos, which is the grossest way to refer to it. It's so gross. It's so gross. I hate it.
00:45:04
Speaker
I forgot. I forgot all about that. I'm like, Coos, what the hell kind of like, it's so gross. Kind of like you said, it's just perfect for this scene. Cringe, cringe mania right here. Oh, it's so great. And then he's like, and I'm in love with Carla, like automatically in love with Carla and says he wants to be a gynecologist or as Elmo says, a coos doctor in outer space.
00:45:29
Speaker
There's just like some written phrases in this movie that are great like I hope so too or this that are just like ridiculous approach the dialogue Yeah, this it has so many quotes, you know what I mean? Like oh, I want to be a gynecologist Well, why why loud? Well, I want to be able to look at a woman and see the power they hold over me. Yeah Right
00:45:55
Speaker
Well, and it comes, that comes back to his like feeling of like, why do something, why do women have power over me? Right. And it is partially like, you know, just being a young person with hormones and stuff, but then also the psychological aspect of his mother leaving, seeing his father disempowered through that, his, him, his, you know, foundation of what this relationship is supposed to be. He feels disempowered. So now his relationship with women is just screwed, right? I think like, so like,
00:46:25
Speaker
I don't know. I mean, there's, there's another extreme, there's another interesting movie inside of this movie. It's very strange that like the quintessential wrestling movie for like junior high schoolers to watch and a sleepover is a movie that is like first and foremost about like male sexual pathology. And yeah, like that's like one, that's like one a that's, that's like one with a bullet and then really down at like
00:46:50
Speaker
like to to like not even not even like co-things just like the second entire second idea of it is like some stuff about wrestling it is yeah that's why I said it's like I'm kind of curious to read the book because it feels like a lot of this stuff that's in the movie that you know it seems like the movie is about something else maybe that's more explicit or more clear in the book
00:47:19
Speaker
And this stuff is just getting brought in into like what, you know, they're trying to just do a sports movie. At least that's what it kind of feels like. I don't know. It's just, it doesn't mesh with what the movie seems to want to be and what the story actually is. So yeah, I totally get what you're saying. Austin, I'm curious, like when you first watched this, like it does seem like there is a sort of, especially like in wrestling media or people remember it, like everyone remembers Vision Quest and then it's like,
00:47:45
Speaker
I'm just so curious, like, what was your reaction to like, does it just kind of glaze over? Like, it just kind of goes like, like, you just turn off for that part. Like, I think so. Right. Like, I think as a kid, you don't give a shit about any of that. Yeah. Oh, he wants to be a gynecologist. What is that? What is a gynecologist? That's probably what I said in seventh grade. I don't know what that is.
00:48:10
Speaker
a vagina. I've never seen one of those. You know, I think it's a lot of that and you kind of just you focus on the parts that you remember lunatic fringe running across the bridge, you know, just the jump roping and the wrestling and the lat drops and, you know, hit the toss and you remember that stuff and that other stuff kind of just you kind of forget a lot of the dialogue. And that's why I watch this again. And I'm like, what the fuck? Yeah, it's wild. And the very next scene
00:48:39
Speaker
Um, is loud and sniffing Carla's underwear. Yes. Um, and Carla, it's, it's not too big a deal to her either. Um, and he literally just says like, Oh, hello, Carla. I was just getting a shirt. It's just like loud. What the fuck are you doing, man? Like, what are you doing? Uh, like I, it's just so weird to me. And then like immediately after that, he just goes to the room and she's drawing and she's like, Oh, Hey, like nothing like creepy just happened.
00:49:10
Speaker
This movie is so horny. So horny. It has gotta be one of the horniest movies I've ever seen. And she's drawing him. She's like, look, I'm drawing you, Loudon. Like one of my French girls. And she does his tie for him and it's all very maternal. It's like she's being his mom. It's so creepy. This whole stretch right here. I'm gonna go back one scene right back to the hotel. Yeah, do it.
00:49:38
Speaker
Kevin, he said he missed Kevin in 4.45. Did you guys catch that? Kevin in 4.45 was, during the hotel he was talking to Elmo, he said he missed Kevin in 4.45, which was the guy that sexually assaulted him. It almost, it just, it implies a lot, I think, that it's not willing to say out loud. The movie doesn't think sexual assault is a big deal. No, it doesn't. And I think
00:50:07
Speaker
Loudon might really be questioning his sexuality a little bit, fully. Like, you know, because he's, it feels like this is his sexual awakening. And maybe he felt a little curious about that dude grabbing at him, you know? He said he had never had anybody do it before. That's what he told me to try. Yeah, and we're not done with this. There's more. No, absolutely not. And then he never stops. No, no. Every, it's like a sandwich. Like every scene, every wrestling scene is sandwiched between
00:50:37
Speaker
two scenes about enormous sexual pathology and like every, all of Loudon's dialogue, some of it is like every, every, like all of his dialogue that moves the story forward, that describes something that is, you know, like wrestling or like life related about like his motivation. He will also during that dialogue, say something like to his English teacher, that's like,
00:51:06
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I've just been like, jerking off a lot. Like, it's insane. Like, it's very strange. And he is not embarrassed. Like, I don't know about you guys, how you guys were when you were teenagers. I was not talking about sex with any adults. I was not doing it. I couldn't do it. I was way too embarrassed. And if I was sniffing someone's panties, and the first thing I say is not, Oh, my God, it's Hello, Carla.
00:51:33
Speaker
You know what I mean? He's just like, not embarrassed. I wasn't doing what you just, I was obviously doing. I was just getting a shirt. Like you said, it's like, ugh, what? Just deeply sexual the whole time. And it's so horny, rated R horny. And I'm just like, it has really changed my view on this movie. I'm not sure I look at it as a wrestling movie anymore. I feel like wrestling is just kind of like the car we used to get
00:52:03
Speaker
So, you know what I mean? It's just, it's just there to exist as something to kind of guide the plot of him discovering his sexual abilities and like identity. And it's such, it's so strange that you can change from seventh grade to full adult, right? Looking at things differently. This is more fun though, I gotta say. And so then he goes to the bar, he goes to a bar, sees Tanner in there.
00:52:32
Speaker
Um, which is also just like, it's, it's still such a weird dynamic between, uh, Loudon and Tanner and to be like drinking together with your student. Well, they're not drinking together at that point, but they could have been right. Um, we also got Madonna, uh, performing in the bar. She's playing. I'm a gambler. This is her first movie. Yes. And then she switches over to crazy for you, which is my favorite Madonna song, um, because of this movie, probably. Um, and Carla's there too. And Carla asks Loudon.
00:53:01
Speaker
to dance. And this is also, as she's asking him to dance, is where she meets Tanneran. We have some foreshadowing, I think, or a meaningful look between the two of them. And during the dance, this is where we get loud and acting very jealous and entitled to Carla, wanting to control her, even though he has no real claim to her as a lover or anything like that, right?
00:53:24
Speaker
Um, and it's very problematic. And he sees like some dudes that she came with and she says, uh, who are, or he says, who are the Cowboys? They look like geeks. And it's like, loud and have you looked in the mirror? And she's like, one of them, uh, uh, won some rodeo medals. He's like, well, they're geeks. Uh, it's like, okay, loud. And, and he's like, I don't think this is the kind of place for an artist to be.
00:53:52
Speaker
What is what is Loudon's view of artists if they don't belong like being intoxicated in dancing? Right. I think he sees them as some sort of Puritans. I guess I don't know. It's trying to set Carla up as this like promiscuous, like mysterious, like you don't know if you can trust her type. Yeah. When really she's not doing that much. She's just having a good time and meeting people and
00:54:20
Speaker
It's never really implied that she's sleeping with him. It's only like Loudon's own anxiety that kind of puts it in those kind of thoughts. But, you know, it just was, this was 2023. We'd all be like, yeah, Carla's just, you know, doing her thing. And like, what do you mean? Well, and, you know, Loudon's, Loudon's actions here and like his attitude is not unrealistic, right? For a lot of young men to just feel very jealous about things for, you know,
00:54:49
Speaker
uh, uh, reasons that they can't defend, right? It's, it's just a little, it's, it's possessiveness over somebody, right? It is a, it is sort of sexism he's putting out towards Carla, right? Um, and he, and he continues that as like a creep when she comes home, he's like spying on her from the basement window, like a serial killer. Um, which is so creepy. Um, and, uh, yeah, it's just, it's, it's a little bit of a weird scene. Um, but the next scene,
00:55:20
Speaker
Loudon is going to scout shoot goes to shoots match and this is our first time seeing some like real live wrestling match in the movie It's not very long. It's another lat drop And shoot pins this guy right away. It's a very it's it's it's a you know real feet over feet over back kind of move and Yeah, loudens like in shock. He was gonna take some notes into his into his recorder like a real pro But there's nothing to say because shoot was too good and too scary
00:55:50
Speaker
Yeah. What'd you guys think of the, uh, shoots wrestling when you saw this? It looks good. Yeah. I mean, obviously, yeah, obviously nasty upper body, like everybody else in the state for some reason. Greco Kings out there in Washington, but, um, we are up to two, uh, throws, by the way, I counted them. Uh, this is, I was believed the second one after that initial throw by a loud non coach. Um, yeah, I love it because.
00:56:20
Speaker
Your first real kind of dose of that wrestling, it really sets you up to be this mountain of a man once again. Like all of Loudon's fears are kind of realized in that where, you know, he saw him carry in this log and he saw what he looked like. And now he saw him crush someone that was really good. And you're just like, well, shit. And I think that introduces more doubt for Loudon in a way that we can kind of see.
00:56:47
Speaker
Yeah, starting to pile up on him a little bit between that and his distraction, right? Carla being his distraction. By the way, what do you think is the real vision quest in this movie? Loudon's, like, sexual awakening or Loudon beating shoot? I think it's gotta be the sexual awakening, right? Yeah, right. It clearly has the most, like, effect on him. It clearly is, like, what separates him, like,
00:57:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's definitely like what separates him like from one point of the movie to the other Um next scene we got tanner and they're in class english class tanner and calls on loudon to respond And loudon kind of gives this a somewhat meaningful response Uh about you know says thing is she's already dying talking about the character in this poem They just read and it's kind of trying to reinforce that, you know, you got to live for live for today because there's no tomorrow
00:57:46
Speaker
Like he says you might go through life thinking there's plenty of time, but there's not Just kind of reinforcing that and I'm still not sure the movie like really nails that with it's with the rest of the themes But this is also where you know, they go out in the hallway and this is where we see Loudon first have his nose bleeds and Margie also tells him that she loves him and there's no there's no response or fallout to that her saying that it's not important in the film and
00:58:14
Speaker
They just need someone there when he has a nosebleed. Well, he faints, right? Oh, yeah. No, you're right. He faints. You're right. It wasn't a nosebleed at this point. He faints. Yeah, he thinks and then and then he wakes up.
00:58:29
Speaker
And then his teachers like, hey, how are you doing? Like, you're all right. And then he goes, yeah, you know, I'm cutting weight. I'm working really hard. I think because I'm cutting weight, I think my dick is constantly hard. I have an erection almost all of the day because of this. And his teachers looks at him as like, like, are you doing OK? Why are you telling me this? He says like, he's like, yeah, I have a permanent priapism. Teachers like, what is it? He's like, he's like smiling. He looks at me smiling and he's like,
00:58:58
Speaker
means my, my dick is always hard. He's like, I'm, I'm dying, Mr. Tanner, and I'm dying with a hard on. He says like that girl in the poem, but quicker and with a bone. Just like that lady in the poem.
00:59:26
Speaker
But this is also where he goes, he's talking about Carla to Tannerann and he says to Tannerann, she's got the best things I like in girls and all the best things I like in guys. Which is just, where's that coming from? First of all, what do you mean, Loudon? What do you mean by she's got all the best things you like in guys? Like what?
00:59:50
Speaker
Or what do you mean the best things you like in women for that matter? It's like I don't know what that even means because I have no context of what you are saying that you like about Carla because all I can tell that you like about Carla is that you kind of want to fuck her Well, you see Carla has a vagina
01:00:08
Speaker
I want to be a gynecologist and she can change my oil. She's pretty cool I Think that's I think that's what it is Like are is that's what like are they trying to portray her as like tomboy ish because I don't read that code. I Don't know. I always got that tomboy vibe from her. Maybe not fully yeah, but I did get that vibe a little bit and maybe that's just me but I
01:00:35
Speaker
Um, she's, she's from Jersey. She's like, yeah, she's like from Jersey. She's from Trenton, New Jersey. She's tough. Like she intimidates him. She don't take no shit. Yeah. I wouldn't have minded if the movie had like, I don't, I don't mind like a psych, like a, all the weird sexual path. I'll, I don't mind that like that existing in a movie, but like it'd be nice if they did it better.
01:01:04
Speaker
Yeah, it needs to be more intentional, right? It needs to have something to say about that, but it doesn't. That's not what the movie's talking about, right? It just skips over all the implications of Loudon's behavior and thoughts. Yeah, it's weird. But yeah, so then it cuts to practice again. We see some fireman's in the scene, some more over-under stuff. And Carla shows up to practice, actually.
01:01:31
Speaker
And this is a weird scene. I don't know why Loudon would leave practice to just go talk to a girl. I don't know if that would have been acceptable for you guys when you were in practice. I could not. I don't know any wrestling coach that would be cool with that. But yeah. So and then like someone like yells like what do you waste your time with with a F slur like Loudon? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Or like you're like this. Like now we get some like
01:02:00
Speaker
homophobia coming in, it's like reinforcing that theme. And yeah, Loudon goes out to talk with her and Loudon, or Carla tells him that you're like a stepbrother to me. Different connotation these days. Different connotation these days. Very. That doesn't really mean exactly the same sort of thing. In the context of everything else that happens, that line today gets like a, oh, like in a theater, you know, like a lot of all thick
01:02:27
Speaker
Yeah, Loudon didn't like that. Loudon didn't like it. No, Loudon hated it. He was offended. He's like, what do you mean? Like, you see me as a friend? Older lady? You see me as like someone you potentially want to have things with? Yeah. No, poor Loudon. Like, can't get outside of his own, his own wants and needs. And then she also like kisses him on the cheek before she leaves. Yeah, yeah. She kisses him on the cheek. Carla doesn't help the situation, right?
01:02:56
Speaker
That's sort of like the weird part. Like her character is so confused and strange because like, yeah, she does so many things that are, you know, really extremely creepy to do with like a high school boy that you are as an adult woman living with. Like she's doing things that are really creepy and not okay. He's doing things that are really fucked, like really creepy and really bad and also really not okay. And then it like,
01:03:25
Speaker
There's this level of like resistance she puts up to it in the movie where she's like, you know, she gives them a talking to at one point, but like, but then there's also like scenes like this and it's very, it gets confusing. I don't know what was the intent. I don't know. Do you think that's on purpose? Because you would think that Loudon would also be
01:03:46
Speaker
Well, yeah, you think Loudon as an 18 year old boy would just be like so confused by everything that she's doing. I probably would have been at that age. Absolutely. I would have been like, okay, she's backing away, but pulling me in and you know, she's confused. I'm confused. So I almost wonder if that's on purpose, like to kind of give the audience maybe.
01:04:08
Speaker
a little bit of that feeling that Lauden's feeling. But I'm not sure I can give that credit to these filmmakers to do that on purpose. I don't think there were a lot of women in the room when they were writing the film. I don't think so. No. So yeah, Lauden goes talk to the coach. And coach is like, doesn't want Lauden to keep cutting weight. And he's like, no, Lauden, this is bad. I'm putting my foot down. And Lauden doesn't want to stand for it. And he tells his teammates that wrestling is not a team sport.
01:04:38
Speaker
Um, and he proves himself by completing the pegboard and everyone is way too impressed. Um, as for some reason, this changed everyone's perspective on, on Loudon because he, he finished the pegboard after cutting weight. Yeah. Great hates him the whole time. And then his, he's like halfway up the pegboard. I was like, fucking hate you. Like you, I probably was him calling you. Yeah. And then he's like,
01:05:06
Speaker
He's half. He's like halfway up. He's not that far than he gets. Yeah, this goofy smile. And he's like, go. I love you. I love you. You're the best. You're so much better than me. I love you. Go for it, Logan. By the way, they really should have taken Otto's character and what Forest Whitaker's character and just made them the same person. We didn't need both of them. Right. Waste of Forest Whitaker. The coach has a great line in the meeting.
01:05:33
Speaker
Because obviously Loudon is like, well, what about shoot? Fuck shoot. He's looking after his guy. He's like, dude, we get it. You want to, you want to win and beat this guy. And, but I'm looking after you a little bit. So fuck all that. Okay. And then, uh, then everybody, he comes out and everybody's like, you're so selfish and you're such a piece of shit. And you know, we hate you and you're this and that. Like you said, then he climbs the pegboard and now he's universally respected.
01:06:04
Speaker
Like we love you now, you know, it's like, is it wrestling itself wasn't already like what we use to solve these problems of like respect and like proving yourself. They already is wrestling. You can prove that with the wrestling. You could just auto up on the wrestling that improve. I don't know why the pegboard needs to be this other aspect of it.
01:06:29
Speaker
Was Otto the 68-pounder? Is that why it's implied that he's mad? Yeah. I'm not sure what it is, but I don't know. But she's huge too. Yeah. I don't think it's Otto, though, because I think they show Loudon doing the 68-pound wrestle off later on, and it's just some dude. I don't think it was Otto, but I'm not sure. I don't know. Yeah. Either way. It would make more sense. If it wasn't, it should have been.
01:06:57
Speaker
Probably should have been. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That would make more sense. Yeah. But after practice, so they all believe in him now. We're past that part of the that the you'll find in this movie that Loudon things, good things just happened to Loudon. Like everything just works out for Loudon eventually. That's how it works. Like for for no reason, really, it just works out. But yeah, they all change their mind about him. It's great now. Loudon runs home.
01:07:24
Speaker
and just screams, I love you, Carlos, and he gets home. It's kind of weird. And then we have this scene where I think Loudon's talking with Margie about the school paper he's working on. Or no, excuse me, he's talking with his dad about the school paper that he's working on on the clitoris. And we got Loudon just being curious about biology again. That's all this is.
01:07:48
Speaker
There's definitely not something weird going on with him. Loudon says trans rights. He says the clitoris is a modulus with the male penis. So there you go, Loudon. But yeah, he's into this stuff for some reason. Yeah, and Margie, oh, excuse me, the next day, I guess he publishes it and everyone gets very upset about him publishing his
01:08:14
Speaker
his research on the clitoris. Margie loved it though and she showed the story to her mother. I don't remember too much more about the scene other than it was just like, did you guys know that Loudon thinks about vaginas? Yeah. That was still what it was about. Is Loudon a feminist icon? I mean, he's up for it, right? Him, Judith Butler.
01:08:37
Speaker
Octavia Butler. He's right between those two. You know, look, he's doing all this research on women's reproductive health. OK, he wants to be a gynecologist. Yeah, he respects the clit. You know what I mean? Like he just. He it's just I don't know. It just feels like it's just it's giving feminist icon. You know what I mean?
01:09:03
Speaker
And the scene where he like asks Elmo, it's Elmo he's talking to, he's at the hotel and he's like, he asked him, he's like, what do you, what do you know about the clitoris and Elmo? Like another just insane line that this movie has. And he just goes, uh, do you have it? Yeah. He goes, I don't know what it looks like, but I kind of know where it's at. Elmo.
01:09:27
Speaker
that you got the important part down. I love Elmo in this movie. Elmo's a great dude. He's a chill. I think one part of this movie, all of the men in the non-glamorous positions, part of what gets so strange about it is, Loudoun has three
01:09:53
Speaker
great like male role models to follow. Yeah, yeah. And he's sort of like, that rejects them, but he just sort of like squanders all of this, I guess, presumably in maybe in the author of the books or like the writer's mind, like, because he doesn't have a mom. And so it makes him insane. But like, he has these great like three great like, really, and they're all sort of, you know, one, one's a teacher, one's a chef in a hotel, right? And his dad's like, a mechanic.
01:10:24
Speaker
And there's clearly something being said there about like You can you can be happy and be like as long as you have an inner happiness or you have an inner You have like done the things you need to do You don't have to be anything glamorous for the rest of your life Like you could maybe part of like the implication here is like if you beat shoot your senior year You can just be a mechanic the rest of your life and you'll be happy because you did what you needed to do and it's like but there's all of the hat and
01:10:53
Speaker
And then, but then he just goes around being insane about, about women. Well, and it doesn't make sense with the idea of the film being like, you know, there, you got to live like there's no tomorrow because that doesn't make sense for like, uh, the, the, um, like what you were just saying about it's okay to, you know, you can be an honorable and great and wonderful person. Just be a teacher and just.
01:11:17
Speaker
mechanic and you know it's okay to be who you are kind of deal right but no that's not what the movie wants you to think at the end right but yeah you're spot on and what the actual text textual analysis is right or maybe i'm sort of like reading it kind of the opposite way and maybe the idea is you can be like a good and honorable and like a great guy you know like elmo i guess mostly elmo and his dad that are probably have the most like
01:11:42
Speaker
angst, like Elmo seems pretty good up until you know, he gives that speech, you kind of get a glimpse. Obviously, his dad's not doing great. But like, maybe the idea is like, you can be an honorable guy, you can be a great person. But like, if you like, they have those regrets or something like, yeah, that would have been an interesting thing if the movie had explored more of like, Elmo being like Elmo or his dad talking about like, you have to do this because the rest of your life is not in control. Like on the wrestling mat, you could
01:12:12
Speaker
Like, there's so many things here, but, you know, at the end of the day, it's something about the clitoris, so who knows? Right, and that's why I think it goes back to this movie really being a sexual journey, and it's not about the life shit. It never has been, it never was. It's Loudon's sexual journey, and that's why it always just kind of veers back onto that lane, no matter what, because he just can't help himself.
01:12:42
Speaker
You know? Yeah, well, this is where Loudon has his first nosebleed while they're doing their little arm wrestling thing. So Loudon's like suffering physically and mentally now. He's such a tortured soul. Everyone should feel bad for him because he chose to do this is kind of the vibe I feel. So Kooch gives him another ride home and Loudon sees Carla is out on a seemingly a date with Tanner.
01:13:10
Speaker
And Loudon can't handle it and he just fucking runs away He's just so scared of what he's saying and and can't and so angry that he you know He has to run away from it And he's giving both of them the cold shoulder the next day. He won't talk to Carly He won't talk to Tanner and and they don't know what's going on. He's a They they have a another scene in between where he's working out and he's very angrily doing the lap machine incorrectly and
01:13:39
Speaker
And then, you know, this kind of starts to come to a head where Carla wants to confront him about, you know, him giving her the cold shoulder and how he's been acting. Right. And this is where we have what is essentially an attempt to rape where Loudon, you know, sexually begins to sexually assault Carla and she stops him by hitting him. But this is another time where like Loudon's like desire to control femininity and understand it.
01:14:07
Speaker
comes out in a really toxic way here, right? And, you know, she gives him like, I decided who I'm going to be with all that stuff. And he is just his whole thing is like, was he say he says you fuck Tanner and why won't you fuck me too? And I don't know, what do you feel like is implied with that line from Loudon, like where he's, he's assuming that because she's had, he assumes she's had sex with somebody else that he should then have access to her body as well.
01:14:36
Speaker
Yeah, I think he's just jealous teenage boy. You know, I think we've all been that jealous teenage boy once or twice in our life. You know, maybe not to the level where we're going to force ourself on somebody, right? Obviously, but you know, it just kind of, I think is put in there to, to really show that he is really frustrated and he, he just thinks of himself as
01:15:03
Speaker
And it might be like sort of like an image issue maybe where it's like, well, why won't she pick me? And, you know, what's wrong with me? And, you know, and I think that kind of plays into that, you know, that part of discovering yourself and your sexuality and things like that, where you're going to have those doubts and those jealousies about people that you are attaching yourself to. And, you know, she very clearly sets that boundary and then he has to step over the line, unfortunately.
01:15:32
Speaker
really changes the whole dynamic of their relationship and his character. But like you said earlier, it kind of just gets wiped away a little bit. She doesn't care. Yeah. She's just like, get off me. Like, and maybe because she is supposed to be 21. Like, I know it's played out that she's like this older woman with all this experience. She's still a kid. You know what? You know, I mean, I know when I was 21, I was just a dumbass still.
01:16:02
Speaker
No different than 18, obviously, you're a little older, but she's still a kid too. And I think maybe she doesn't know how to like react to it. And, you know, I'm sure she's had to deal with it like every woman has, but up to that point. But again, just I think that's a maturity thing, maybe a little bit, not knowing how to deal with it and how to react.
01:16:26
Speaker
Yeah, like her, like the, it's not subtle in that like the movie is trying to, the movie is doing this so that they could get to her speech that she gives him and like her speech is good. And it's like, like an interesting part and like an interesting message that like happens. I feel like there's gotta be, there had to be a way to get to her giving that speech to Loudon without him.
01:16:54
Speaker
doing that and showing the main character trying to sexually assault someone. Yeah, it's crazy.
Deeper Themes & Emotional Depth
01:17:04
Speaker
But like you said earlier, where she says, I've been 21 since I was 14. I mean, if her character had been explored more into why she's doing the things she's doing because of
01:17:17
Speaker
you know like what her experiences and like her character like her character could be pretty interesting but they always kind of stop short her character is either always her characters is two things and she either pushes loud and away and is like hey like you can't just
01:17:33
Speaker
I'm not here just to like have sex with you. Like I'm a human being who's not, I'm not, that's not what my purpose is. And then her other thing that she does in the movie is goes like, Hey, like I'm here to like, excite you and be the sexual, you're a sexual fan. I'm actually, I am here for that. And she just goes between those two. And there could have been, you know, more of an exploration of her character that makes more of that makes sense or like, cause she gives the speech and then
01:17:58
Speaker
just all of that goes out the window and yeah she continues doing what she's done the rest of the movie and you know eventually is has sex with him later but so it's like it's just it's confused her character especially very confused in this movie yeah yeah well you know you go from like the the the you know probably your least favorite scene in the movie um to my favorite scene in the movie um which unfortunately starts with some
01:18:27
Speaker
Domestic abuse um where louden goes to pick up cooch before they get on the bus And he sees cooch getting hit by his dad in slapped around And you know cooch gets out of there and his dad's telling him like oh you think you can wrestle you can't wrestle you know cooch pushes his dad away and Cooch isn't quite a headspace going going into a match Here, I would I would not want to be you know fighting with my dad before I had to go fight or go wrestle
01:18:58
Speaker
But you know loud tries to reassure him. He's like, hey pretty soon. We'll be in control of our own lives lives Um, and and you know, this gets back to class right and like hooch talks about like, you know i'm i'm You know, he doesn't feel the same way like he's loud. It's not loud. He's gonna go to college. He's smart He does academics cooch doesn't right cooch is gonna have to join the navy, you know It's his only way out of poverty, you know him and his dad like, you know, they're not they're not in a good place, right? um, and so you kind of see this juxtaposition of like uh, and it doesn't look like uh
01:19:27
Speaker
Cooch's mom was around either, right? But this is also where Loudon's
Critiquing Wrestling Portrayals
01:19:32
Speaker
trying to reassure him more. He's like, oh, that Indian spirit you got, right? And Cooch says, I ain't no fucking Indian. That's just some shit I made up in my head. And Loudon's like, a lot of people ain't Indians, Cooch. Another banger line in this movie.
01:19:54
Speaker
But I just love, I ain't no fucking Indian. That's some, just some shit I made up in my head, man. And he's obviously crying and, and Latin's like, oh, it's okay, man. And he's like, fuck you. If you think I'm crying, who's crying? This gets really upset. It really, it really shows the depth of Cooch's character. I think that's why he's so loved, like as a character, he's got a lot of depth there. I mean, who hasn't heard stories about teammates or friends or,
01:20:22
Speaker
And even in different sports where they had a dad like that, or maybe we've seen that, I don't know, as a coach, I have definitely seen things like that. And it's always the worst. And you automatically have that sympathy for Cooch in that moment. And you kind of, it opens him up and you kind of see where, why he is acting out in the way that he is, you know, making up Indian names and just kind of like trying to, again, to find an identity outside of whatever that is.
01:20:51
Speaker
It just broadens him and makes him so much cooler to me There's a lot of interesting characters in this film Like they just needed to be explored in a different way. And yeah, like Sasha was saying it's not coherent, you know But there's so many good things that could have been explored and yeah, the movie just flubs it Yeah, like who'd like just all of there's so many people like like search for identity
01:21:19
Speaker
And like wrestling because you don't have anything else. Like, yeah, Kuja's character is like really interesting. And then like, so like, ugh, they barely talk about it. I don't know. But they're getting on the bus to go, it appears to be their first match. And this is against Columbia, the team that does the double wing. You know, you gotta be ready to do that sit out counter.
01:21:45
Speaker
And Loudon's spitting in a cup because he's cutting weight. And we see some hip tosses in this. We see that double wing. Carla shows up to the match dressed like it's 1922. She's a time traveler, apparently. And we got Loudon versus Lewis. And we start the match, and we get some collar ties, and the ref immediately stops it because he thinks it's a little too rough. Little too rough. We're getting some hard collar ties, a little bit of hand fighting.
01:22:15
Speaker
We see a single leg, we see another fireman. Carla is looking on lustfully at Loudon. It's just weird that she decided to show up to this after what happened. But Loudon gets a nosebleed and the coach decides to stop it after the second time he starts bleeding, which was baffling and probably not the most accurate representation of wrestling. It was maybe the most inaccurate thing in the entire movie. They treat the nosebleed like it's like a serious injury.
01:22:47
Speaker
Yeah, and it almost makes you wonder how many wrestlers were around. But I think you have to have this moment for your audience where, well, this happened because of your weight cut. Imagine how bad it's gonna get if you continue with this. So there had to be that in this movie. But I wish they would have done it a different way, have him get headlocked or something. Or just run out of blood time. Yeah, run out of blood. Then you'd have to explain. I think they didn't have to explain it first time.
01:23:17
Speaker
Yeah. And all this stuff and like. Explaining blood. How would you feel? A non wrestler just having one of the funniest things ever, because having the name alone. Yeah. Yeah, they could have had him just keep fainting. The nosebleed thing kind of seemed abrupt to me a little bit. The fainting thing was kind of established already. I think if you do that in a match, you go, oh, well, he couldn't continue. He loses. Can you what would you do if your coach pulled you for a nosebleed? How would you guys feel?
01:23:46
Speaker
It's like there's not a like a nose plug in sight. I mean, what is this coach doing? You fold it up, put it in there, get them at the tape, you know, come on. Yeah, I mean, it's just weird. It's it's I would I mean, I was type again and just be like, OK, coach, I guess that's what we're doing. But I'd be really confused about it, obviously. But I mean, it's just such it's such an unrealistic situation. Like no coach is going to do this, obviously.
01:24:13
Speaker
Yeah, it's wild. A better movie might have had the nosebleed be like, like, I like the nosebleed
Cultural Nuances & Identity
01:24:18
Speaker
as a motif. Like, it's interesting how it keeps showing up and it like keeps signaling that he's having these problems with the weight cut. But to have it just actually be like, no, you have a nosebleed, that's like your injury. Like, that's the not a signal that things are going wrong, but the nosebleed itself is like the bad injury. It's like so horrible. Doesn't it's like at all?
01:24:41
Speaker
Yeah, so we get post match they lose the duel I think and Loudon's, you know getting cleaned up in the bathroom and shoot shows up and they do the classic like look up and he's in the mirror, right? He's oh and shoots just a cool guy and denim And he's just like man looks like you can't hold your mud. You better get that shit figured out and Yeah, loud sounds like oh
01:25:07
Speaker
He's trying to intimidate me. And Carla's there. Carla's like, oh, maybe he's the one that's scared. That's why he came here. And it's like, yeah, maybe. But I wouldn't be too scared. And it doesn't look like Shoot is that scared. So yeah. I do feel bad for Loudon in that moment, because he was kind of running it up on him a little bit. Yeah. He was clearly winning the match.
01:25:30
Speaker
to be taken off like that and then, you know, shoots there. And it's just really, again, coming back to that doubt where it's like, well, he's not, doesn't seem worried now. Like you said, it's, it's. Shoots a great character in that way too, where he's just like, yeah, like, come on, figure it out. You seem to be a bleeder. You got a problem there, bud.
01:25:55
Speaker
I feel like, uh, like media, like it'd be, I would be very interested in like shoots perspective, but I, in my like head cannon, like my, like in my head, I feel like shoot is like, uh, he's like analogous to like one punch man. Like he, he's, he's, he's carrying his log and he's just looking at him and he's like, I just hope someone will, will like make me feel alive again. I can't be stopped. I'm just too good. And he sees him bleeding in the match stops and he's like,
01:26:24
Speaker
Got my hopes up for nothing. No one I'm not gonna be challenged. I'm not gonna feel I'm too good Yeah, it's just like a worthy challenger still eludes me I can't have a noble death Yeah, yeah So we have another diner scene Carla goes out with Loudon after the match and
01:26:49
Speaker
You know, Carlos was like, I wasn't sure what I was expecting to watch wrestling. And I had a quick question for you guys. I don't know if you ever like took a significant other to see wrestling for the first time or even just your own experience. But what what was the first impression of wrestling? Like when I I remember when I took my wife to see wrestling for the first time and her thing was like, it's a lot faster than I anticipated it would be like.
01:27:13
Speaker
She had this view of wrestling as being a little bit more of a strong man kind of thing going on and not as much like quickness and speed and flying around. I don't know. What have you heard from people who you introduce wrestling to? You know, I've introduced some to my friends a little bit here and there that, you know, want to come watch a dual meet or, you know, or maybe we went to the state finals or the big tens or whatever. Right. And I just remember they all kind of felt the same way. It's just like,
01:27:41
Speaker
It wasn't what they were expecting. It's almost like they expected it to be some sort of like, yeah, almost like sumo-esque, a lot of pushing, and not a lot of quick movements. And it almost seemed like, OK, I could get behind this. This is actually pretty cool. I can see why this is so effective. And MMA is what some people have told me, or I understand now. So I've kind of heard a couple of different things.
01:28:11
Speaker
Overall positive I would say my universal reaction every friend that I introduced in high school He was very basically universal reaction where they all went seems like your head touches the other guy's butt a lot Now that was like they said that in high school for sure Sure, I Was like look it's called the we want for me. It's called the backdoor finish like I'm good at it like I
01:28:37
Speaker
So I finished my single legs, man. It's very effective. Don't get me started on a butt drag. Oh, God. Yeah, so Loudon tells Karla, hey, you should stay. You can be an artist anywhere, you know. But he she he's also just kind of like, look, I get it if you're into Tanner and, you know, and he literally says if I were a girl, I'd probably be making it with a guy like Tanner and and it's like, OK, Loudon, we're dropping another one.
01:29:07
Speaker
Loudon's, once again, just kind of going, like, it's this thing where it's like, his sexuality is just, it's all over the place. It is fluid. It is like a, Loudon's sexuality is a glass of water you knocked off the table. It's that sort of fluid. That's what it feels like. It's just all over the place. It's hard to get a read on him. But then Carla kisses him. And this is two scenes ago from the, his assault of her. It's just like, what is going on?
01:29:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. What do you say? What do you say to this couple? If this is a real life couple, I'd be like, what are you guys doing? Stop. You need a physical barrier between the two of you. It's kind of treading into that toxic territory a little bit where it's like, oh, yeah, like you're my abuser. Like it's it's very strange looking back on this.
01:30:04
Speaker
And I almost wonder if they'll say it's a product of the times and whatever. A lot of people do. Yeah, I'm sure they do. And it's just so odd looking at it through today's lens overall, where I think if I knew somebody in that situation, I'd be like, get your help. Get help. Let me help you. Shout out to Shane Sparks, by the way. We're thinking of you, Shane. What?
01:30:32
Speaker
Yeah, Shane Sparks loves this. This is his favorite movie. So and then from here, Loudon and Carla decide that they're going to go on a little weekend trip together to Loudon's grandpa's place in the woods. His dad says, I'll go check on your grandpa, please. And, you know, they got this driving scene. Carla makes a weird rape joke, like about Hitchhikers or something. I can't remember. Yeah, she's another gay scare.
01:31:01
Speaker
Like Loudon talks about this fantasy has like, yeah, I want to like drive a car. I want to like fix up a car and drive it through like a small town. And like, uh, I want to pick up a guy on the side of the road. Like it was something like that. It was like, I want to find a mysterious guy on the road and like take him with me. And then she says, oh, you're going to fucking fall asleep. It's going to knock you on the hay. You'll wake up and you're, you know, she said like, like your butt's going to be huge. Like it was, it was really,
01:31:30
Speaker
Inelegant it was not very good Why it was a joke not written by Carla it was Right absolutely absolutely and then Loudon Loudon is like grip training while he's driving Kind of kind of weird, but you know if you guys did that no judgment, but it's a little weird to me I mean I definitely When I was cutting weight, I definitely worked out in the car a few times like we'd be on I remember it was
01:31:59
Speaker
It was state championship, freestyle state. And I was cutting a lot of weight and I, uh, my dad was driving me to weigh-ins.
01:32:08
Speaker
And I'm trying to just keep moving while I'm in the car. And there's nowhere to move, but I'm just punching the air and doing fake sit-ups and stuff. Any calories I can get out. I brought my little brother, who was in elementary school at the time, I brought his singlet to weigh in with because it was slightly lighter than my singlet. So I pulled these tiny little straps up and I got the biggest wedgie. And I hunched over to get underneath the straps.
01:32:31
Speaker
I'm just trying to make weight and I didn't make weight. But the guy didn't even look at the scale. He's just like, yep. Just like, you're good. Didn't even care. I like missed it by like point two. That's awesome. But he's grip training and she's like, oh, did you ever stop working out? And then he says the nice thing about working out all the time is you have a lot of nocturnal emissions. Yes.
01:33:03
Speaker
Just insane. It's the sort of shit where it's like, you ever read one of those text message conversations that go viral where it's a dude that does not know how to talk to women on a date. I love you alive, girl. And yeah, it's like, bro, stop. You're digging yourself a hole. They think they're being, you know. It's like reading Justin Roiland's text.
01:33:35
Speaker
Yeah. That's what that reminds me of. Nocturnal emissions though. Bang her name. Amazing name. Mike, that's wonderful. It's descriptive, but also, you know, it's descriptive, but it's, uh, you know, it doesn't go too far. It's not too lewd. But yeah, uh, Carla mentions that she likes big hands. Um, and she likes to, you know, she was like, I like when they put their
01:33:59
Speaker
big hands around me and make me feel held. And Loudon, you know, as a joke is just like, oh, you know, we're going this way. It just show off his hands. She just felt like telling him what she turns her on. And I guess this is a multi-day trip. They had to stop. They had to stop for a campfire and like to spend the night on the way, which is weird. But OK. And Loudon tells Carla that he's he's a virgin.
01:34:29
Speaker
And I wrote down in my notes, no shit. This is actually part of the movie. This is a fucked up. This is maybe the most fucked. This is like the way that this is revealed is almost like I don't even I don't even fucking know. This part is insane. It's bad. Yeah. Loudness.
01:34:58
Speaker
deeply troubled young man, I think.
Personal Growth & Conflict Resolution
01:35:01
Speaker
For the listeners, he tells the story of when he could have lost his virginity, like an eighth grade or something. And apparently, he was at some guy's house and they were taking turns on his sister in the basement. But she was into it. So it was fine. She was all into it. But obviously, I don't think he says that.
01:35:21
Speaker
I think he says something like, he said he was into it. Yeah, like he's like, yeah, me and four guys were in a basement, like taking turns on, on our friend's sister. And then he's like, but like, he was really into it. Well, yeah, he said that he didn't, he said that he didn't do it, right? Yeah. And then he, and then he, of course, says, well, does that make me a queer or what? Yeah. This, this part, like the way that this is revealed is almost like,
01:35:50
Speaker
I don't even know like it's like revealed with like, like Holden Caulfield revealing that he's been molested or something like it's revealed with this sort of like, I'm, I'm really interested. We got to read the book. Um, because yeah, I really wondered like, is this supposed to be some sort of, is this like a bigger moment in the book or something where it's sort of like, he has this enormous problem because he was part of like,
01:36:16
Speaker
You know, what is presumably could, I can only imagine could be part of like sexual assault as his very first encounter with sex ever and having it. This is, I don't, I don't even want to go into it. It's too fucking insane. I think it sets up a lot of the way he looks at women, right? It's like, well, women are objects to be used in that way. Yeah. And that's why she kind of has to be like, look, I'm not that. That's not what I am. It has to explain it to him because
01:36:46
Speaker
That's all he knows. I mean, his friends, it's, you know, I could have done it. I just didn't want to. I didn't feel right. But, you know, he's still. And like, maybe even like, you feel like it emasculates him. Yeah. The things that he feels like it's like men where, cause it's like, is presumably first ever experience with any sort of sexuality was like him and a bunch of dudes, a bunch of dudes. Yeah.
01:37:11
Speaker
This is really strange. My notes get way more fucked up. At this point, my notes just become like, what the fuck is going on? What is happening? This is insane. Where are they going? Yeah, the story just decides to have a little detour, basically. He makes the statement that sexual intercourse burns 200 calories.
01:37:33
Speaker
Carla says that she's just friends with Tanner and so it's like, they're, they're trying to like build up to this what's coming, right? They're gonna have sex, right? They arrive at grandpa's cabin. Grandpa is played by the the old dude from Home Alone. Yes. So it was good to see that man. And they Carl and they're like talking about like,
01:37:56
Speaker
Uh, she's like, Oh, I'm sure your grandpa was a real, you know, stud back in the day, you know, real ladies, man. And more, more just like weird shit where he's like, you know, he like looks up to his grandpa and like, Ooh, grandpa was stud. I want to be a stud. Right. Um, and they go on a little walk and, uh, took, and they're just kind of like talking about, you know, Loudon's future, what he's going to do. She like references all the girls you're going to make love to Loudon and he responds name one.
01:38:24
Speaker
And that's where they kiss, and Crazy For You plays. And it's insinuated that they have sex in that moment. After Crazy For You plays that first time, I forget how much it actually plays in this movie. It has such a big part overall. And in this scene, it's like, I don't know. I don't know if it makes it any better in this scene. I don't think it does. It almost ruins it for me a little bit. It's like, that is a great song.
01:38:54
Speaker
And now I'm like, I don't know. You know, this is this is the the perfect moment because then they're driving home and it's like they fucked, you know. And Loudon's eating pizza and Loudon is ready to give it all up after getting laid. Loudon's like, I don't know why I cared about any of that shit.
01:39:17
Speaker
Going back to grandpa to grandpa, the very typical like cliche, like tough old man, I don't need anything. I got everything I need. Then coughs like he's about to die. I got everything I need, son. They're going to they're going to they left. They're not going to visit grandpa again for another two years and they're going to find his body.
01:39:42
Speaker
He lives out there in the mountains. I don't blame him. Did you get to stay overnight in a campfire? But Loudon makes sure to ask Carla like, oh, I was all right at sex, right? I wasn't a bad at sex, right? Just like really insecure about it, which is understandable, right? But hey, at least he asked. I mean, that's I mean, at least he had the consideration to ask. Yeah.
01:40:08
Speaker
They get home, they fuck again, and she makes him promise that even though this has happened, he's still gonna make the wait and see it through. He's still gonna go wrestle shoot. Loudon, before you can enter me again, promise me. Promise me you'll make the wait. Okay, she's like holding him off.
01:40:29
Speaker
You know, just, it's just outside. And, uh, yeah, that's such so weird, such a weird saying. And it's, it's once again, example of like, Hey, things just worked out for Loudoun. Yeah. The woman he sexually assaulted is actually just into him. It's fine. Um, it's just going to work out. Uh, it's like, doesn't make sense. Shouldn't happen. But it's also like the movie is starting to try to tie up conflicts. Right. So the conflict with Carla, it kind of gets tied up a little bit. Um, you know, conflict with, you know, uh, his, his team is tied up at this point.
01:41:00
Speaker
So now he's got to tie things up with Tanner and his English teacher. Um, and he goes and talks to him about it. And he also just, he, he like says, uh, thanks for being a terrific teacher and for not sticking it to Carla. Like I thought just like the dumbest line. Thanks for not sticking it to Carla. Like a thought, Mr. Tanner. Yeah. Thanks for not banging my girlfriend. You're not too bad.
01:41:24
Speaker
Uh, and I think it's like the last practice before it's big match with shoot. Uh, and it starts off with like this conditioning drill, which I did. I don't know if you guys did in the circle run. Yeah. You're doing the circle run, do like a real racist chant while they're doing it. Um, that was for dog. What's that? That was for coach. That was for coach. Yeah. Yeah. We did that our, uh, that we did that at like our duels.
01:41:48
Speaker
We didn't do the chant though. You did the circle run at the duels? We'd come out on the mat, do our warm up, right? Like at the home meet, warm up on the mat, and then we'd finish it with doing the circle run. Doing the circle run like, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah
01:42:10
Speaker
But that was that we finished every practice like that. And we would we would open that. We would finish our warm ups at our dual meets by doing that. That is why. Did you did you dog pile at the end of it? Yeah. Did you do the file? Yeah. No, we just like and we just like did the circle run. But everyone's in the mat and was like, well, you know, how many times did you guys get blown out after doing that?
01:42:38
Speaker
We, no one, we never got blown out, but we, our opponents were, you know, dog shit. So San Francisco unified. Yeah. It's not a tough, like, it's not, it's not a strong section. You know, uh, let's
Meaning of Sports & Climax
01:43:00
Speaker
see here. So, uh, Loudon comes home from practice and Carla is gone. Oh my God. Just his heart plummets. Carla's gone.
01:43:08
Speaker
And Loudon wanders the streets of Spokane and remorse for Carla's disappearance. And this is bad, you know, he's in a real bad place right before his big match. I mean, who wouldn't be in a real bad place if they didn't know the exact location of a woman, I guess. And match day rolls around against Chute and Loudon is missing. No one knows where he's at. But he went to go talk to Elmo.
01:43:38
Speaker
And we probably get the, the actually like most probably well performed scenes in the movie, I think. And this is where Elmo is given his a Pele speech. Um, and I want to pause here cause I know Sasha would definitely want to have something to say here. Yeah. I mean, this is, this is like, this is the best part of the movie by far. Like this is this, if the movie was, you know, like took this thesis, like of his speech and it was the point of the movie.
01:44:08
Speaker
it would be like incredible. I mean, like it's probably is like sports are like, sports are hard to explain. You, you have a, you have a ball, you have like a, whatever you've run around on a thing. Um, and yet it is like extremely mean. There's no way to explain really any sport except maybe like boxing and MMA. That doesn't sound like stupid given the importance that sports holds in people's lives. And yet like,
01:44:38
Speaker
It does. And it is incredible. And like sports are an incredible thing. Um, and like this, this speech is probably like, it's, it's not an easy thing to explain. Any, if someone could be, do sports their whole life, have it like, you know, there's so many people say like, this thing saved my life. And yet I don't know if I've ever seen any explanation about like, what is the importance of sports?
01:45:02
Speaker
Like why are they important? Like why do they have the effect that they have on people that is better than like this speech? Yeah, I feel very similar. Like he does, they do articulate really well in the idea of like, not just when you're the person participating, but as the spectator, how you can feel elevated and you can feel uplifted at this metaphor of overcoming adversity before you and this representation of like,
01:45:30
Speaker
human excellence and what we can achieve and what people can achieve together like in team essence, right? That I feel it's hard to describe to people if they're not into sports sometimes and how little moments of just like someone doing something transcendent, you know, and you can have this very like existential relationship and experience through sport that I don't know if everyone fully understands. Yeah, I agree with you guys.
01:45:59
Speaker
100% on that. It's an incredible speech and really hits home for how, you know, competition and winning and just how those can make you feel, right? And how, like you said, they can elevate your life. Maybe just short term, maybe, but it's still an elevation that maybe a lot of people don't get. And sometimes it's their only elevation that they get in their life.
01:46:29
Speaker
and why they're so attached to sports and sports teams. But no matter how incredible that is, my note said, Pele made me cry. And that just sums it up so perfectly. Pele made me cry. It is a great scene. In terms of best scenes in sports films, this is up there. It's good. It's very good. If this scene doesn't exist in this movie, I think
01:46:59
Speaker
people's estimation of it like what people remember of it and it's like place in like the sport movie and like wrestling canon like probably falls down it probably falls enormously like it takes if this scene doesn't exist there is like a precipitous drop in like where people view this movie like as a sports movie
01:47:21
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it definitely, you know, it is a big part of what makes the movie better than, you know, maybe some of the other sums of its parts. But yeah, so Loudon is, he barely makes weigh-ins, right? He gets there, he gets, Elmo essentially convinces him to go follow through with what he was doing. Right, Elmo has a great quote, right? Elmo has that great quote. At the end of that, and I've seen it on shirts and everything else, it's, it ain't the six minutes is what happens in the six minutes.
01:47:50
Speaker
Yeah, like at the end of that hole at the end of that speech and because he was just surprised that he would show up and take off, you know, yeah, miss a day's pay for like, well, just for six minutes. Right. And that's, that's where that quote comes from. I think that's great. It's a great wrestling quote. You see it all or all over the place. And, and, uh, I kind of forgot it was here in the movie, honestly, but it really, it was really great. Yeah. Almost a very sympathetic character, right? He's a.
01:48:20
Speaker
you know he's he's he might not be the most you know slick and suave and whatnot or you know maybe fully charming or whatever it might be but you know he's he's a cool character and yeah it's really sold
01:48:36
Speaker
Um, but yeah, he barely makes weight. He has to strip all the way down to make weight. Um, he also breathes out as he's weighing in, um, which is something I totally did. I totally did when I was, when I was stepping on the scale, I would totally breathe out and try not to breathe back in. Uh, I don't know if it was because of this, this scene or not, or just because I was always very close on weight. Uh, and so he gets to wrestle shoot and they're just kind of like, you know, staring each other down.
01:49:05
Speaker
Loudon's still naked as he's staring down shoot, and everyone's clapping him on the back. And Carla comes back, and she finds him in the locker room. And she says another creepy thing. She says, I thought I'd see 20 bare ass boys in this locker room. And I said, oh, really, Carla? You thought you might run into some naked children in this locker room? Why'd you enter? But OK, here she is. Carla says she didn't know how to say the goodbye to Loudon. It was too painful.
01:49:35
Speaker
And they're not really sure where they're gonna go with this, but she's encouraging them to go back and still get on the mat. He tells her he'd do it all again. And I'm not sure what he totally means, because he doesn't seem to be talking about the weight cut, just seems to be talking about his relationship with Carla. And if that's the case, he should definitely not do it all again.
01:49:58
Speaker
Like he could have done that a lot better. Absolutely. Did you guys notice, too, that he steps on the scale at first with his clothes all on? Yeah. Yeah. He was not down. And it's like, why have him do that if he's not going to make weight like that? Yeah. Yeah. Like he like he like he doesn't know weigh in procedure. Like he just walked in his life. I didn't like it would have been to me like.
01:50:22
Speaker
It would have been more bad-ass if he walked in with his clothes on, made weight, and it showed that, okay, he took it seriously. So seriously, he could make it with his clothes on. And I think that was diminished whenever they're like, oh, no, you missed. Then he just takes his shirt off and it's fine. And it's another example. It just works out for him, by the way. He spent all weekend eating pizza and fucking. And then he just makes weight. It just happened. It was fine. So it works out for him.
01:50:54
Speaker
And he goes out there, you know, Carla Carla goes in the stands. She said she would do it all again, too. And then we get the great warm up scene of lunatic fringe, mostly great just because of lunatic fringe. Yes. But it's a very dramatic warm up. He's doing like this weird stuff with his arms and he's doing some knee slides kind of thing. And I just wrote it out loud as a huge dork. He's just doing this weird ass warm up all by himself. I said the wrestling in this movie was surprisingly better than I remembered it.
01:51:23
Speaker
This is where it really scores the lowest. I know there's a lot of bad warmups out there, especially with high school kids, but like, this one's really bad. Like, if you saw somebody doing that, you'd be like, I'm fucking that kid up. You need to calm down, bro. Incorporating his Tai Chi. Yeah. But you know, they announced his name. He comes running out. Right.
01:51:48
Speaker
And grandpa came grandpa's in the audience. He made it. I don't know how he made it, but he's here. Um, and you know what we, during the match, we actually see a little more of a variety of moves than I remembered. Uh, like I saw a head and arm, I saw a single leg, half a wing fireman, a switch, doubles, a regular standup, a Peterson position. Um, and then, uh, so it's going back and forth and Loudon's doing really well.
01:52:15
Speaker
And then a one-point shoot slams him, and Loudon's a little bit hurt. And they continue. Loudon gets a nosebleed, and we think, oh, no. Coach is going to stop the match again. And we get some prolonged slo-mo into a big hip toss, but Coach gives Loudon a
01:52:36
Speaker
A pep talk during his his nosebleed. They're like, oh you're killing him go get him and coaches like shut up shoot You're you couldn't do this loud and do what you said you were gonna do right follow through But yeah, he throws shoot. It's all slo-mo And he pins him hip top to hip toss to pin and everyone's happy and journey plays and we get the classic 80s freeze frame and Loudon gives there was just voiceover at the very beginning of the movie and now at the very end nothing in between
01:53:06
Speaker
And Lavin says the classic line of, you know, they gotta act like there's no tomorrow because at the end of the day, there isn't any tomorrow. And that's how our movie ends. Can we talk about like, they give, I'm also about to say this, they give Shoot a takedown for, he gets a breakdown. He's, he starts on bottom, Shoot breaks him down and then they give him two.
01:53:37
Speaker
I think that was just like one of those things that were filmed and then they didn't have time to probably go back and fix it and they just said, fuck it, whatever. Like, yeah, we're not worried about it. But she was kind of putting it on Loudon a little bit. He was kind of dominating him. Like he was monster on top, taking him down. You know, you kind of felt bad for Loudon a little bit because it didn't look good for him, of course, until the Hail Mary hip toss where you pinned the two-time state champ
01:54:07
Speaker
Uh, and, uh, the crowd goes nuts, but my question, if we go back and rescore this with current college rules, who wins? I knew you were going to say, I think she wins. Right. Cause he beats him by like, I mean, he pins him. Yes. But let's say he only in that hip toss, if he had just got a full allotment of backs and hadn't pinned him, he like, I don't think he would, uh, he wouldn't have won. Right.
01:54:37
Speaker
I don't know. I honestly I remember when I first watched this and I remember thinking like, oh, they got all the scoring wrong and all this stuff.
Narrative & Writing Quality
01:54:45
Speaker
And I and I remember that going into watching it again. And I just told myself in my head, I don't give a shit. Right. They're going to fuck this up and I don't care. And honestly, again, the referee had to be a real referee the way he moved and stuff. And then I think shoots actor actually did wrestle.
01:55:05
Speaker
I think I heard him on another podcast, Blood Round, I think he was on and I think he did wrestle. So I think that's why it looks good for him and why he, besides maybe a couple little things here and there. The wrestling was solid, especially here at the end, especially the mat wrestling there. I was really surprised. I had kind of forgotten about it.
01:55:29
Speaker
And yeah, I assume Matthew Modine didn't wrestle as my guess. No, I don't think so. I don't know that. Yeah, I don't know that for sure. But I thought he did pretty good. Like he seemed to, you know, have put in some work to kind of at least learn how to move to some degree. You know, he didn't look bad. I think he understood he understood like how wrestling should at least look to some extent. Yeah, I think. Yeah, they did a good job with that. Overall, there have been some TV shows and movies that
01:55:57
Speaker
don't care and they just make it look ridiculous and call it weird names and do things. So I did appreciate that. But the cooch line, Jesus Christ, I'm shitting my pants. Wonderful. I'm shitting my pants, you're killing it. Amazing. No notes. Well, before we get into the rating, any final thoughts from anybody?
01:56:24
Speaker
No, that ending thing though, we were born to live and then die, and we got to do it each in our own way. We have to love those people that deserve it, like there's no tomorrow, because when you get down to it, there isn't. It's felt so weird to me. Did it feel weird to you guys when he said that? It's just a platitude, right? It's not fully supported by the film we just watched, right?
01:56:53
Speaker
If they have done more in the structure of the film and the writing to really nail this kind of theme that they were going for with this, you know, according to this voiceover, it would have been a lot better, but they were making like three different movies at the same time. It felt like three different like, wait, ways they wanted this story to go. Yeah, absolutely. They did not know how to finish the movie. Yeah. They were having a rough time figuring it out because
01:57:23
Speaker
Like, you know, any wrestlers, like, well, you beat them at the duel. You have, you got to go to sections. You got to, you got to go to state. Like what, you know, and it's still right. And I feel like that's another, like, if this, if this was made today, that match would have been the state final. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like they would have cranked that drama all the way up. And it wouldn't have been some Wednesday night dual meet in December.
01:57:53
Speaker
You know what I mean? So, it's very, you know, there's a lot of reboots that happen and this is one of those cult like 80s movies that people enjoy still, I think. I wouldn't be surprised if something like this comes out eventually. Like a new sort of wrestling movie like this. And maybe they would call it Vision Quest. I don't know. I don't know.
01:58:22
Speaker
I would be surprised if that happened eventually. I mean, if someone said they were going to remake Vision Quest, I would say good.
01:58:29
Speaker
Right. Like there is a good movie. Yeah. You know, yeah. And I'm not even saying it's necessarily a bad movie as it is, although I do believe that. But but I think that that, you know, there are components of this that could really be like a little editing, a little rewrites, a little bit, you know, a little bit better this and that. And this is a decent film. It just needed a little bit needed like someone to come in and just say, OK,
01:59:00
Speaker
fix this a little bit. I agree. Yeah. All right. Let's get into our rating system. That is the WAP system. And our first category is writing. Score one to five of how you feel the writing was. Sasha, is it OK if I ask you to go first? This is real tough. This is really tough because there's so many quote like
01:59:31
Speaker
From enjoyment perspective, there's so many insane lines here that I think are very funny. I really enjoy that they're in there. Also, the movie's insane. There's a lot of things in it that are crazy. This is one where, I don't know, I don't know. I'm just gonna give it, I'm gonna go right down the middle and there's, I like,
01:59:55
Speaker
I like some of it, and some of it's so bad, and I'll just go two and a half. I'll be safe. I don't know where to put it. I'm really close with you. I think I agree with all you're saying. There's so many elements that I think are hilarious and great, and that's a great line. But then there's so much, it's just like, oh my god, this is garbage. This is not good writing. I think I'm gonna go with a two. I don't wanna give it right down the middle, because I do think it leans more of just not good writing more so than anything.
02:00:25
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I'll say two for the writing. I gave it a two and a half as well. Um, again, kind of just really siding with Sasha here on, on this stuff where it's like, there's a lot of lines in this that are forever in wrestling ethos. You know what I mean? Like they are in, they will forever be associated with wrestling and people will continue to say them and be cliche and, and,
02:00:55
Speaker
I just think that that kind of bumps it probably from that too for me, just looking at it that way from a wrestling perspective maybe, not just pure writing. Well, Austin, what did you think of the acting? I thought the acting overall was pretty good. I think, obviously, very talented people in this. Matthew Modine and Carla's actors, I can't remember her name off the top of my head for whatever reason,
02:01:26
Speaker
Very pretty good actors overall continued to work after this and and I you know Overall, I think i'd probably give it a a three and a half probably Yeah, I think I agree like I wasn't disappointed with anyone's you know, uh performance like everyone was at the very least solid, right? Um, yeah, I was i'm right there with you i'll give it it's it's better than average, you know i'll give it a three and a half
02:01:54
Speaker
Yeah, I think, I agree with like, there's no parts where you're watching it where you're like, someone is very obviously phoning in a line. Probably give it like a four just for Elmo's speech bumps it up.
Production & Acting Performances
02:02:10
Speaker
He brings it home. Yeah, I like it. And then we get to production.
02:02:18
Speaker
For me, I I thought it was once again I thought it was pretty serviceable like it wasn't nothing There wasn't any like part of the production that took me out of it I like the music, you know, it's fun I mean, it's not gonna be for everybody but I like the fun 80s music, you know kind of good pump up Not a lot of original score in here a lot of you know, it's obviously all borrowed tracks but it's fun that way and You know costuming pretty good
02:02:47
Speaker
fairly interesting, but at times confusing. And everything looked like it made sense. Nothing looked like a set to me. I think they just filmed in a lot of real locations. So nothing bad, very serviceable, nothing particularly impressive though. So I'd probably give a three for production. Yeah, production for me.
02:03:16
Speaker
cinematography wonderful in this at times, you know, when he's running across the bridge or under the spotlight, you know, you know, even the way that the dual meets are shot look great. Costuming is pretty good. You know, it feels very era appropriate. And, you know, I'm right there with you. I think I'm gonna go probably a little higher and go four for production. All right.
Final Analysis & Future Prospects
02:03:44
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. I mean, visually, it's pretty watchable. Visually, it's pretty interesting. The colors of all the different high schools really pop. It changes up. I really like the way it will switch from the morning scenes and the day. There's a lot of different locations. I really love the scenes of him running around Spokane at night. I think it feels very lived in.
02:04:14
Speaker
You feel like you're like I just really relate to like just running around at night And I really like those scenes are like how they look so I'll probably give it like a four or five cool and Then finally we have portrayal of wrestling Sasha, would you think of how do you feel like they portrayed wrestling? Did they do it? Well, this one's also like the very high highs and very low lows in this one where like
02:04:42
Speaker
You know, like the, like the costuming, like that is very, it looks very, uh, it looks like what people are wearing when they're wrestling. Like a lot of the wrestling is really good. The throws look great. That stuff. Uh, but there's like the whole aspect of his team is like third in the state and he's really good. And then everyone just hates him. Their coach is like awful. The coach doesn't know anything about wrestling.
02:05:05
Speaker
He teaches them like an arm bar at one point, but he doesn't, he doesn't call it that. And he goes, you guys know how to get out of this. So get out of it. And then they cut away. And then every, everybody in the mat room does a different escape from the arm bar and none of them get to a base. None of them get to their like knees. They all try to do some sort of weird flip and like, none of it's the same. And then the whole thing with the nose bleed was really bad.
02:05:33
Speaker
So I'll probably go to it. I'll split it right down the middle. Two and a half. All right. Boston. I think that the wrestling in this is very strong overall. For a movie, yeah, it's about wrestling. It's not just shoehorned in like it would be maybe in other movies or TV shows. So you would expect it to be a certain level. But I think one of the biggest harps on it over the years is
02:06:03
Speaker
Oh, it's all throws, it's all lat drops and hit tosses and headlocks and very few leg attacks. And that does bring it down for me a little bit. And maybe a lack of mat wrestling brings it down. I think for the average viewer that just doesn't know anything about wrestling, you got to kind of keep that exciting. And that's how you do that with throws. And maybe it's not the most realistic betrayal on our feet, the way we wrestle.
02:06:32
Speaker
I think it made it exciting for the fans from a viewer perspective for the average person because, you know, obviously this movie was made to make money from not just wrestlers, but also the average person. So that's why I'm going to go ahead and not knock it too much and give it a four. Okay. Well, maybe that's just how they wrestle in Spokane. Maybe so.
02:06:54
Speaker
Yeah. Maybe. I don't know. I'd say for me, maybe I'm going to go with three. I do think it's not bad. It is, compared to a lot of stuff, pretty good. I do knock it for some inaccuracies here and there, or some just weird dynamics, and just not fully understanding wrestling culture, I guess. But there's a lot of stuff that is good. It is overall, if someone said, this is what wrestling is like, I would say,
02:07:22
Speaker
It's close, you know, you're you're kind of you're kind of getting a decent portrayal of it better than some stuff I've seen like, you know, Austin, you're referencing some like TV shows and stuff. And, you know, like if I'm comparing this to Saved by the Bell, this is a lot better. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I'll give it a three for the portrayal of wrestling. All right, folks. Well,
02:07:46
Speaker
That's Vision Quest. We did it. This is a long episode, but we got through it. There's a lot packed in here. There's a lot to talk about. This movie is also like, it's an hour and 45 minutes. It's kind of long for a movie that came out in 80 whatever, right? But I'll tell you what, these days, if I can find an hour and a half, hour and 45 minute movie. Absolutely.
02:08:12
Speaker
Give me some of that Give me some of that short film. Give me some of that cleanly edited film. Give me some of that I don't I don't need these three-hour epics, baby. Yes But yeah plenty they pay they pack in a lot of content so You know hats off division quest. It's it stood the test of time if if there's anything we could say about it But yeah, any final thoughts?
02:08:39
Speaker
I want to know what was going on with this. Whoever wrote this, man. That's about it. That's all I can say. I think we need to check out the book. I think that's the next step. Yeah, I think for me, I kind of forgot there was a book. And this movie has always been seen as that allegory for Owings over Gable. And I kind of want to know if the book is also that, or if they kind of made the movie that.
02:09:10
Speaker
So I'm interested to see kind of what that is like. And that's something we probably could have talked about, about that kind of Gabe Owings. I mean, he's from Washington. He's chasing down the two-time champ. It's obviously not exactly the same, but it's all kind of parallels there for that. And so I'm curious to see if the book is like that. And I'll be probably checking that out soon.
02:09:38
Speaker
All right. That sounds like a plan. We're going to check this book out and maybe have to do a little bit of a revisit, but until then, Austin, thank you for joining us today, man. We really appreciate it. We had a good time. Thank you. Yeah. You guys, you guys are awesome. I love your show so far and, um, it really makes me miss my show and, and, um, I'm really grateful for you guys and let me on and, and ramble a little bit. So, um, I appreciate you guys and I wish you the best of luck with your show and I'll be glad I'll be happy to come on and discuss anything you want ever.
02:10:08
Speaker
So we might have to make that happen. Anyways, thank you all for listening and have a good night.